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Did AIDS Hysteria Prefigure Covid Hysteria?

Turns out, we’re not the champions, my friend

Today we’re publishing an original contribution to one of the most interesting sections on the right-hand side: “How Have We Responded to Previous Pandemics?” This one is by veteran science and medical correspondent Neville Hodgkinson, who covered the AIDS pandemic for the Sunday Times. He sees depressing parallels between the hysterical over-reaction to that pandemic and the over-reaction to this one, with the same misallocation of resources.

Here’s an extract:

One of the consequences, as now, was a huge misallocation of money to the detriment of genuine medical need. A 1993 report from the University of Northumbria Business School, to which Stewart contributed, found that for each AIDS death, health authorities were spending an average of £290,000 on HIV prevention and research, compared with £50 for each death from heart disease. Many UK health regions had considerably more AIDS workers than patients.

Whereas in 1985 a Royal College of Nursing report predicted that one million people in Britain would have AIDS in six years “unless the killer disease is checked”, the actual cumulative, year-on-year, total of AIDS cases by 1990 was still below 5,000. Today, AIDS kills fewer Britons than die from falling down stairs. Even those deaths might have been avoided if the true nature of the condition had been recognised.

Stewart’s findings and recommendations also remained unpublished by the WHO. It was not until June 2008, 25 years after the panic over AIDS began, that the organisation finally admitted the threat of a world pandemic among heterosexuals was over, though it continued to maintain that sub-Saharan Africa was being devastated by the disease.

In fact, Africa was and is one of the biggest victims of the illusions around AIDS, as I found when Andrew Neil, then editor of The Sunday Times, sent me there in 1993 to find out what was happening. My reports, showing that scarce resources were being misdirected to an imaginary epidemic created by an unvalidated “HIV” test, got the scientific and medical establishment in the UK into a frenzy but were never refuted.

How can scientists, who we look to with so much respect, get things so wrong? The answer is that they are human beings, just like the rest of us.

One of the key lessons that could have been drawn from the AIDS debacle is that there is no such holy grail as “the data” or “the science” demanding a particular course of action, contrary to the repeated claims by the Prime Minister and his Health Secretary. It’s how the data are interpreted that is important, and in this regard the Government is receiving a very one-sided and out-of-date perspective.

One of the most startling points Hodgkinson makes is that many of the protagonists in the British and American Government’s response to the Covid crisis are the same people – or are linked to the same organisations – that led the worldwide fight against AIDS.

These include Anthony Fauci, the “AIDS Czar”, who as head of the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases has presided over an era in which several hundred billion dollars have been spent on AIDS research and treatment, including a completely futile but continuing search for a vaccine.

Another is Sir Roy Anderson, the current Professor of Infectious Disease Epidemiology at Imperial College, London. He co-authored an influential, 150-page Royal Society study, published in September 1989, analysing the AIDS epidemic and making predictions about future spread. The other main author was Sir David Cox, professor of statistics at Imperial for more than 20 years, now long since retired.

The predictions were wrong, as demonstrated by an 8,000-word analysis first submitted to the society in September 1990 by the late Professor Gordon Stewart, one of its most distinguished members, with a lifetime’s work in public health.

The error, he said, came about because the statistical model used rested on two false assumptions. The first of these was that the essential cause of AIDS was HIV; and the second was that the virus was already spreading heterosexually, beyond the original susceptible groups of homosexual men with multiple sexual partners, and drug addicts, and would cause a global pandemic.

This is a fascinating piece from a journalist who is witnessing the mistakes the authorities are making in response to the current pandemic and has seen it all before.

Worth reading in full.

When Will the Government Treat Us Like Grown-ups?

Prof Chris Whitty and Sir Patrick Vallance
Witless and Unbalanced

The BBC continues its infantile campaign against the concept of herd immunity, failing to explain (as Professor Sunetra Gupta does here) that it is a perfectly ordinary scientific term (if clumsy from a PR perspective), the basis of how vaccines protect a population, and is the only realistic endpoint of an epidemic where (as in this case) elimination is unrealistic and unjustifiably costly.

BBC News reports that it has obtained, via a Freedom of Information request, every email sent by Sir Patrick Vallance and Chris Whitty from the start of February to the start of June containing the words “herd immunity”. They appear to be trying to get the pair in trouble for ever having thought (back when they still spoke some sense) that herd immunity was worth talking about.

At the start of the pandemic, the Government’s Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance, spoke about “herd immunity” – the idea that once enough of a population had been exposed to the virus, they would build up natural immunity to it. [LS Fact Check: Herd immunity according to Oxford Languages is the “resistance to the spread of a contagious disease within a population that results if a sufficiently high proportion of individuals are immune to the disease, especially through vaccination”. It does not require people to be “exposed to the virus”, as the BBC claims, as they could have T-Cell cross-immunity or be vaccinated.]

Sir Patrick and the Government have both insisted this was never official policy. The Government also denies there was any delay in locking down the country, as some critics have suggested.

Emails obtained by the BBC reveal the alarm among the Government’s top scientific advisers at the reaction to Sir Patrick’s words.

In one email from March, Sir Patrick asks for help to “calm down” academics who have expressed anger at his repeated references to herd immunity and the delays in announcing a lockdown.

The emails show “herd immunity” began to appear after Vallance’s media round on March 13th:

“Our aim,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that morning, is to “try and reduce the peak – not suppress it completely, also because most people get a mild illness, to build up some degree of herd immunity whilst protecting the most vulnerable”.

To many, his words appeared an unequivocal endorsement of herd immunity. They also appeared to explain the Government’s reluctance to order the kind of lockdowns and social distancing measures that were already in place in many other countries, despite cases increasing and worrying scenes in hospitals in Italy.

Speaking to Sky News on the same day, Sir Patrick talked about not suppressing the virus completely, to help avoid “a second peak”, and also to “allow enough of us who are going to get mild illness to become immune to this”.

When asked how much of the British population would need to contract the virus for herd immunity to become effective, he calmly replied “probably around 60%”.

With an approximate 1% case fatality rate, the interviewer responded, that would mean “an awful lot of people dying”. [LS Fact Check: the BBC is confusing the case fatality rate with the infection fatality rate.]

At the time, there was no strong evidence that being infected by coronavirus would result in long-lasting immunity.

The following day, a group of more than 500 academics published a joint letter, criticising the lack of social distancing restrictions imposed by the Government, adding that “going for ‘herd immunity’ at this point does not seem a viable option, as this will put the NHS at an even stronger level of stress, risking many more lives than necessary”.

In an email to Sir Mark Walport, the UK’s former Chief Scientific Adviser, discussing the scientists’ letter, Sir Patrick suggests the message in response should be “herd immunity is not the strategy. The strategy is to flatten the curve… and to shield the elderly… As we do this we will see immunity in the community grow”.

Sir Patrick appears clearly rattled by the backlash to his use of the phrase.

Add a sprinkle of Neil Ferguson alarmist modelling on March 16th and that’s how we got into this mess, as Government ministers and their scientific advisers caved to the mob over the following fortnight.

The same stunt was pulled on Anders Tegnell in Sweden, who has also had to deny that herd immunity was ever an aim, despite emails surfacing that suggest otherwise. But of course epidemiologists were discussing herd immunity in March. They would have been professionally negligent not to have been – it’s a fundamental concept in the science.

What this shows is a chronic failure of leadership from our politicians who, rather than explain to the population what “herd immunity” really means and why building it up is the only viable way to protect the vulnerable and return to normal, crumbled at the first sign of discomfort with the idea and switched to a suicidal suppression strategy while waiting for Godot a vaccine. This treats the public like children who can’t cope with grown-up ideas and hard choices. No wonder it laid the foundation for the emergence of the new paternalistic Covid state that takes away our liberty (because we can’t be trusted to behave) to keep us “safe” – though in truth does anything but.

A Very Sensible MP

Conservative MP Richard Drax had a letter in the Telegraph on Monday that reflects the growing scepticism among Conservative MPs.

SIR – A major rethink on how we battle coronavirus is urgently needed. Now, we’re far better informed, so locking us all down and destroying more lives and livelihoods are not the answer.

Even when a vaccine is found, it may not grant total immunity. In the meantime, as with every other disease, we must learn to live with it.

The most vulnerable are more than capable of deciding how to protect themselves, while the young need to get on with their lives and enjoy their youth, which passes all too quickly.

Enough of this hourly analysis, which creates an atmosphere of fear out of all proportion to the threat. Our best weapon against the virus, for now, is common sense, not over-reaction, which is devastating our country.

Richard Drax MP (Con)
London SW1

Another person who thinks people are more than capable of deciding how to protect themselves is Lockdown Sceptics reader Steven Sieff, who runs the Greenband/Redband site. He has had a letter published in the BMJ criticising the elimination strategy and proposing his freedom-respecting coloured wristband system instead.

If the route to elimination and isolation of the vulnerable both cause too much suffering then what next? Practical suggestions have been largely absent amongst the torrent of voices who question the lockdown approach. But some do exist. One such example is the targeted protection advocated by the greenbandredband system. This approach proposes that all adults be given the right to choose whether to class themselves as vulnerable or low risk. No arbitrary lines, just a personal choice based on personal risk assessment. From there very simple rules exist. For those who classify themselves as vulnerable, distancing/protection measures similar to those in place currently would be maintained. The low risk would also follow these rules when interacting with the vulnerable. But where low risk individuals mixed with each other, they would not be bound by distancing rules.

Worth reading the whole letter.

Support for Government Falls to Lowest Levels – For Not Locking Down Hard Enough

Blower’s latest in the Telegraph

Pollster Ipsos MORI finds support for the Government’s handling of the crisis at its lowest levels yet.

Ipsos MORI’s September Political Monitor shows half the public say the Government is handling the coronavirus very or fairly badly (50%, up 10 points from last month) while a third say it is handling it very or fairly well (32%, down 10 points). This is the lowest score seen so far in this series (when it began in March, 49% thought the Government was handling it well and 35% badly). Fieldwork was carried out before Tuesday’s latest announcements of new restrictions.

Evaluation of the Government’s handling of the crisis is largely split along party lines with 60% of Conservative supporters saying they think the Government is handling it well, compared with just 15% of Labour supporters (of whom 72% are critical).

The poll was done before the announcements of the latest restrictions on Tuesday. But will they help? Polling by ComRes suggests not – not, sadly, because the public are crying out for freedom, but because they want more restrictions.

Of the measures announced on Tuesday by the Prime Minister to the House of Commons and, separately, in a broadcast to the nation at 8pm, all retail and hospitality workers, as well as everyone in taxis wearing mandatory face coverings had the highest level of net public support (73%), followed closely by people working from home (72%). Reducing the number of guests at a wedding from 30 to 15 had the lowest overall public net support (46%), but even this had more support than opposition by a ratio of more than 4:1.

The public also tended to feel that each of these measures would be effective in curbing the transmission of COVID-19. Around three quarters of English adults believe that making those who can work from home do so (76%), and requiring all retail and hospitality workers to wear a face covering (75%) would be an effective way to stop the transmission of the virus, while seven in ten say the same of halting the resumption of audiences at live sporting events (70%). However, just over half say that the new 10pm pub and restaurant curfew would be an effective way of stopping the spread of the virus (53%), although this is twice as many than those who think it would be an ineffective method (27%).

Despite this, nearly two in three English adults say that the new measures from the Government are not strict enough (65%) and a similar proportion (64%) would support a two-week “circuit-breaker” lockdown, including a ‘Stay at Home’ message, compared to just 17% who oppose.

Such depressing polling only shows how deeply the propaganda has penetrated, and why good leadership at a time of crisis is so important.

“She really enjoyed each day for me to brush her hair, a simple pleasure now denied.”

Proliferation of Private sector Care homes - About Manchester

Stefan Emory has written a heartrending account in Conservative Woman of the impact of lockdown on his wife Ann, who was admitted to a care home last year after 35 years together.

My partner has late stage Alzheimer’s and is completely dependent for all aspects of her care and wellbeing. At her stage, there is very little comfort, dignity and pleasure left in her life, but she really enjoyed each day for me to brush her hair, which I would also do to calm her down when distressed or agitated – a very simple pleasure now denied to us both.

My biggest fear now is that she may reach the very end stage and that I will not be free to be there to hold her hand on her way out.

Although the Government issued (extremely Sir Humphrey-esque) care home visiting guidance in July, it placed all the responsibility on care homes, who are unwilling to take that responsibility and have done no more than to allow very limited garden visits, which are most dissatisfying for both the resident and visitor.

I am aware that some organisations have been lobbying the Government for more practical guidance, but they seem to be using the softly-softly approach, whereas it is now abundantly clear that they need to engage in a very vocal public media campaign.

From my observations, it is only those of us who have cared directly for a loved one with dementia who really understand the devastating impact on the person affected.

So many health and care professionals do not really seem to understand, or only superficially. When the dementia becomes severe, the only unfailing voice for the sufferer is the voice of the family member, who by their relationship knows the sufferer better than any health or care professional.

That is why the visitor lockdown is so devastating – the impact is the silencing of the only voice that truly understands the sufferer and unceasingly has their best interests at heart. 

He worries that with the ban on daily visiting and the lack of inspections, “all the right conditions are in place for some absolutely horrific cases of neglect and abuse behind closed doors”.

Worth reading in full.

And, remember, if you know of any such cases of neglect, please contact the investigative journalist David Rose on [email protected].

Tegnell Turning?

Some worrying news from Sweden. A small rise in cases in Stockholm in the last few days appears to be causing chief epidemiologist Dr Anders Tegnell to shift to embracing lockdowns and masks as tools for handling the virus. The Telegraph has more:

Sweden’s state epidemiologist has said that he is now willing to recommend lockdown measures such as school closures, and strict limits to the size of gatherings – so long as they are only imposed locally and for three weeks at a time.

The Public Health Agency of Sweden’s new approach to local restrictions, floated first at a press conference on Tuesday, marks its biggest strategic shift since it launched its no-lockdown strategy in March.

“We are thinking of fairly short restrictions, to break the spread of infection requires perhaps two to three weeks at most,” Anders Tegnell told the Dagens Nyheter newspaper in an interview published on Wednesday afternoon. 

“We are still developing the concept, so to say, but something like that.” …

“The restrictions could be extremely local. It could be about a single workplace or city district: wherever you see a spread and think that there are restrictions that might stop it,”  Dr Tegnell told the newspaper.

The agency has so far been sceptical of issuing a general recommendation for face masks to be worn in public, but, according to Dr Tegnell, it now sees a role for them in helping control local outbreaks.

Sad to see a sceptic hero shifting to endorse masks and lockdowns, but it is to be hoped they remain only as short-term and local measures. The idea seems to be to try to keep on top of local outbreaks and minimise the risk of the virus spreading to the vulnerable. But since SARS-CoV-2 is now endemic, and presumably seasonal, it leaves the question of how long these brutal threats of lockdown will continue to be held over the Swedish population as tools to combat infection, and why they are for COVID-19 and not other seasonal viruses. I hope the great man has thought this one through.

How Many People With “Flu-Like” Illnesses Are Being Mislabelled as Covid?

Today Lockdown Sceptics is publishing a new paper by Consultant Pathologist Dr Clare Craig looking at how to tell the difference between a real Covid outbreak and one resulting from another seasonal respiratory virus and false positives. Here’s an excerpt:

Why are we seeing alleged excess Covid-like cases in people in their 20s? The narrative is the same across Europe: that a new surge in Covid cases is being driven by young adults. This is despite the fact that during the spring epidemic, symptomatic outbreaks were focused on nursing homes and hospitals. Large numbers of symptomatic young people were not observed in the spring. Why are they being seen now? Why would the impact of the virus at a population level be so different now to what it was in the spring?

Real Covid cases lead, after a time, to rising antibody levels. The percentage of 20-29 year olds with antibodies to Covid has not risen between June and 6th September. It has actually fallen, as it has for the rest of the population. There is a serious inconsistency with the widely accepted hypothesis that the recent surge of flu-like illness must be Covid and the steady continued drop in Covid antibody levels throughout the population. The latter is scientifically provable, the former remains only a hypothesis.

Epidemics spread fast and cluster geographically. Where recent epidemic outbreaks of actual Covid have been mapped, such as in Florida and Marseille, the spread from young adults to other age groups happened within a week and within two weeks Covid was detected in every age group. Given that the time from diagnosis to death is approximately 20 days then a rise in deaths was seen approximately 27 days after new cases in young adults.

The UK data demonstrates that the rise in alleged-Covid cases in young people from the beginning of August did not reach other age groups for a full month. Also, the data since mid Sept has not shown the expected consequent increase in deaths in the UK from the August surge. It seems the outcomes from the UK surge in flu-like illnesses in August does not appear to match that seen in recent genuine Covid outbreaks. This is puzzling, and must make us more cautious.

Some might argue that vulnerable groups have been successfully shielded in the UK and this could explain the lack of deaths now in the UK. Are we better at shielding than Florida and Marseille. Have we successfully hermetically sealed 15-25 year olds from vulnerable groups? It is not obvious that we have shielded any more successfully than other countries. If we have not shielded more successfully, then why has our death rate not increase. like other countries? Death rates should have already increased if this outbreak is Covid rather than other flu-like viruses.

The percentage of young people testing positive for Covid remains low, at a few percent of those tested. Although the false positive rate for Covid testing has not been definitively established, the rate we are observing in the young in the UK is low enough that we cannot exclude the possibility that they are almost all Covid false positives. To differentiate real Covid from false positives requires careful thought and more thorough assessment and testing of those cases. It is essential that loss of smell and Chest CT confirmation is used to confirm where there are genuine outbreaks.

Well worth reading in full.

Facebook Flags Belgian Doctors’ Letter as “False Information”

Barrister and Lockdown Sceptics reader Sarah Ewart got in touch to tell us that when she shared on Facebook the letter from the Belgian doctors questioning the wisdom of lockdowns that LS featured on Sunday the social media company flagged it as false information.

Sarah says:

This has really disturbed me. Assuming the letter is what it purports to be, it represents the view of hundreds of Belgian professionals. I had not realised that free speech and debate was being censored to this degree. I am in genuine despair over what is happening and desperate to do what I can to restore our country to one of freedom, democracy and open debate. 

Speechless Raab Skewered by JHB

Julia Hartley-Brewer left Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab momentarily speechless on her talkRADIO show yesterday as she informed him of the number of healthy under-60s who had died with COVID-19 since February. Here’s what one Lockdown Sceptics reader had to say:

The interview of Dominic Raab by Julia Hartley-Brewer this morning was simply stunning. JHB asked Raab how many healthy under-60s have died of Covid since February. Raab has literally no clue, was unable to even give a ballpark figure. When JHB told him it was 307 Raab was stunned. It took him a couple of seconds to compose himself and start muttering a reply. 

A very senior member of the Government seems to be completely unaware of exactly how innocuous Covid is to the majority of the population. Beyond that, it’s nothing short of outrageous that a senior Cabinet member should have no grasp whatsoever of the basic numbers of the single biggest issue that has faced this country for decades. The Government is clearly making decisions based on narratives and ideas presented to them without scrutinising them at even the most basic level.

Can you imagine anyone running a serious business in this way – not having a clue for example how many clients one has or how much money the business turns over, more or less?

There is no conspiracy here, just colossal incompetence and negligence.

Watch it here.

Round-Up

Theme Tunes Suggested by Readers

One for Boris: “He’d Send In The Army” by Gang Of Four. And two by the Black Angels in honour of his henchmen, Witless and Unbalanced: “Science Killer” and “Manipulation“.

Love in the Time of Covid

We have created some Lockdown Sceptics Forums, including a dating forum called “Love in a Covid Climate” that has attracted a bit of attention. We have a team of moderators in place to remove spam and deal with the trolls, but sometimes it takes a little while so please bear with us. You have to register to use the Forums, but that should just be a one-time thing. Any problems, email the Lockdown Sceptics webmaster Ian Rons here.

Woke Gobbledegook

We’ve decided to create a permanent slot down here for woke gobbledegook. The Government on Monday announced they were dropping plans for gender self-identification – a victory for women and common sense. But don’t think that means the Government is abandoning its support for the trans agenda. Caroline ffiske in Conservative Woman yesterday exposed how the the Government Equalities Office (GEO) has funded a number of the resources that will now make their way into schools through compulsory Relationships and Sex Education – resources that misrepresent the law and gaslight children about biological sex and their rights to bodily privacy and dignity. Is it any wonder, she asks, that it was reported last week that at one Kent school 15 pupils, most of them girls, are identifying as genders different from their birth sex?

In February 2019, the GEO advertised the funding it would be making available to various LGBT groups.

Its announcement explained that a group of organisations would split £1million “to extend work that protects children from homophobic, biphobic and transphobic bullying”. According to the press release, an existing initiative “delivered by Barnardo’s and Stonewall” had already supported “1,200 schools in England”.

The PSHE (Personal, Social, Health and Economic) Association was contracted by the GEO to assess everything produced through the project funding against a “shared standards framework” and provides links to all the resources on its website. What is the word for the opposite of a treasure trove? 

An organisation called Consortium provides a dangerous and irresponsible factsheet that tells us that puberty blockers are a fully reversible medication.

Yet the NHS has stated that it’s “not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children’s bones” and that “side-effects may also include hot flushes, fatigue and mood alterations”.

Another Consortium factsheet tell us: “When delivering sex education, it is important to use inclusive language. For example, avoid saying ‘men’s/boy’s penises’ and just say ‘penis’,’ effectively teaching kids that biological sex does not exist. It’s cruel, it’s bullying; kids can see that biological sex exists.

An advised “important topic for discussion” is the fact that “anal sex is not exclusively practised by men who have sex with men, many heterosexual couples enjoy anal sex”. Why is it important? For schoolkids? 

Another factsheet says that within a school “a new pupil who has already transitioned need not disclose“. What this means is that a boy can use the girls’ toilets and facilities without the girls even being told. Read that again. The girls’ rights to privacy, even to information – dismissed.  

With respect to toilets, the same factsheet says: “If boys’ and girls’ toilets are separate, the school must ensure that a pupil who transitions may use the facilities that match their new gender presentation and their wishes.” What about girls who don’t want a boy in their toilets? This advice misrepresents the law. Girls have a right to single-sex toilets. 

Surgery is casually introduced. “Surgical interventions to modify the sex characteristics and bring them more in line with the gender identity are not undertaken under 17 years old. Genital surgery may be described as ‘lower or bottom surgery’; breast/chest surgery may be described as ‘top’ surgery.”

Just like that… so casual. 

The risks surrounding such deeply invasive procedures are, of course, not mentioned. The lifetime of medication, potential sterility, pain, regret. No? Kids too sensitive?  

Worth reading in full.

Bonus Gobbledegook: Titania McGrath tweeted a picture from Metro, which was too good not to share.

“Mask Exempt” Lanyards

We’ve created a one-stop shop down here for people who want to buy (or make) a “Mask Exempt” lanyard/card. You can print out and laminate a fairly standard one for free here and it has the advantage of not explicitly claiming you have a disability. But if you have no qualms about that (or you are disabled), you can buy a lanyard from Amazon saying you do have a disability/medical exemption here (takes a while to arrive). The Government has instructions on how to download an official “Mask Exempt” notice to put on your phone here. You can get a “Hidden Disability” tag from ebay here and an “exempt” card with lanyard for just £1.99 from Etsy here. And, finally, if you feel obliged to wear a mask but want to signal your disapproval of having to do so, you can get a “sexy world” mask with the Swedish flag on it here.

Don’t forget to sign the petition on the UK Government’s petitions website calling for an end to mandatory face nappies in shops here.

A reader has started a website that contains some useful guidance about how you can claim legal exemption.

And here’s a round-up of the scientific evidence on the effectiveness of mask (threadbare at best).

Stop Press: An eagle-eyed Twitter user spotted a letter from two surgeons, one of them a former president of the Royal College of Surgeons and the other a former council member, to the Telegraph back in August in which they say they ceased to use masks in their practices decades ago “after a series of controlled trials showed that using them either had no effect on, or sometimes actually increased the risk of post-operative infection”.

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Ofcom Judicial Review Update

The Free Speech Union has just updated the GoFundMe it launched to cover its legal costs in the Judicial Review it is bringing against Ofcom with respect to the “coronavirus guidance” the regulator published on March 23rd, the same day the full lockdown was imposed. As I’ve written about before, this “guidance” has contributed to the suppression of dissenting views about Covid in the mainstream media, particularly the BBC.

When, on April 20th, Ofcom slapped down Eamonn Holmes, an ITV presenter, for arguing in favour of always maintaining an open mind with respect to different theories about the coronavirus crisis and the Government’s response to it, the FSU believed this was an action of considerable consequence for free speech in the media.

The FSU decided it ought to take action. If a small public interest group dedicated to free speech stood for anything, it should stand for upholding the rights of broadcasters and journalists to discuss matters of considerable public interest without fear of censure by a state regulator. Given that it is likely that Ofcom will become the regulator of the internet in due course, we considered it vitally important that Ofcom should pay proper attention to Article 10 of the Human Rights Act that states that we all have the right to free expression. Ofcom should encourage – rather than discourage – open-mindedness, open debate and tolerance for dissenting views. Ofcom was establishing a worryingly bad precedent.

We made a complaint to Ofcom in the hope that it would realise the error of its ways if we brought the conflict between what it had done and its duties under the Human Rights Act to its attention. However, when Ofcom refused to budge on the issue, the FSU decided to initiate litigation to make the case for open-mindedness and free inquiry.

A judge will shortly be deciding whether to allow us to proceed with a Judicial Review of Ofcom’s censorious behaviour. We think we have a strong case but litigation is never certain so we have asked the judge for a “Protective Costs Order” which would place a limit on the liability faced by the FSU should we lose the case. Given that Ofcom claim already to have spent over £16,000 just responding to our application for a court hearing, the amount at risk could be considerable. The bigger the size of this fund the more likely that the action will go ahead and we will have the opportunity to strike a major blow in favour of free speech and the right to challenge the Government’s narrative.

If things go our way and we defeat Ofcom in court, the money in this fund will be held over and used to support other litigation to protect free speech.

Thanks again for all your support, which has already helped us a great deal. If we can ask just one more thing, it’s that you share this GoFundMe on social media. The more the word gets out, the better our chances of being able to fight these and similar battles in future.


Please donate to the Free Speech Union’s “Fighting Fund” GoFundMe here so we can take Ofcom to the High Court and share the link with others.

This is a vitally important case for free speech.

Samaritans

If you are struggling to cope, please call Samaritans for free on 116 123 (UK and ROI), email [email protected] or visit the Samaritans website to find details of your nearest branch. Samaritans is available round the clock, every single day of the year, providing a safe place for anyone struggling to cope, whoever they are, however they feel, whatever life has done to them.

Shameless Begging Bit

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And Finally…

Comments

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2.3K Comments
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Steve Martindale
Steve Martindale
6 years ago

Hello, trouble sleeping so I tried counting Covid stats, if it is of any interest;

Stats for NHS England;
Serves population 56 million
For the 7 days 16th to 22nd September
Total number of ‘Covid’ patients admitted to English hospitals 1571
Total number of ‘Covid’ patients recorded as in English hospitals
Went up from 894 on16th to 1335 on 22nd a rise of 441
For these 7 days the number of Covid deaths was 116

That leaves 1014 admissions not accounted for by deaths and the rise in total numbers in hospital.
I can only assume that these 1014 were patients who got better and were discharged and went home.
I have heard Hapless Hancock talk despairingly about the numbers being admitted to Hospital but really that needs to be offset against the people getting well and being discharged.
Also I note that the increase over these 7 days is somewhat less than the doubling he talked about

Basics
Basics
6 years ago

The Matt Hancock twitter thread on the subject of the app.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1309057752891887616

Folk are not impressed. Apple 6 is too old, on folk switched on and was told whole family to isolate for 14 days without a test. It’s dying a death.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

A tweet:

#NHSApp

OLDER PHONES WON’T RUN IT

The people most affected by Covid19 live in poverty – so are excluded from the App.

I wrote to Hancock/Harding a dozen times about this.

It’s not about whether they read the emails !

THE POINT IS IF I KNEW IT WAS A PROBLEM WHY DIDN’T THEY

BBC Breakfast
@BBCBreakfast
· 16h
Many people are reporting not being able to download the NHS Test and Trace app due to phone software requirements.
On #BBCBreakfast we put that issue to the Health Secretary Matt Hancock.
https://bbc.in/363ncXK

Farinances
Farinances
6 years ago

This mask thing, right. It’s just occurred to me that we are never gonna win with it. Even if they were *proved* to be completely ineffective tomorrow and the MSM somehow deigned to publish that irrefutable fact. Most people would take them off, yes. But there are a minority of deranged who wouldn’t, and these people will continue to push the issue into the 2030s.

You know why?

Because they actually love it. The vocal minority who love it, *actually love it. Because it provides them with a visual marker of who they are better than. It provides them with a delicious, righteous impetus to assert themselves over evil lawbreakers.

I’ve been skulking Twitter today (big mistake, wtf). There’s tonnes of Karens on there (invariably using Karen in the wrong way – no, idiots, it refers to YOU and your kind who like to jobsworth everyone else in public on a daily basis, not people who take issue with rules and regulations. It refers to the POLICERS of rules and regulations). They actively post tweet after tweet about these awful people who chat on the train with their masks on their chins. These terrible dirty germ spreaders who take their… Read more »

Youth_Unheard
Youth_Unheard
6 years ago

If people need a laugh check out this video and then others on his channel like the how to be afraid one. Absolutely hilarious but scary in that the people being satirised genuinely exist!
https://youtu.be/bXrnqcNgL00

Laurence
Laurence
6 years ago

You have to laugh. The world’s health establishment having failed dismally at schoolboy mathematics, has now failed biology 101.

Surprise – the virus has evolved to beat the cack-handed attempts to control it through washing hands and wearing paper masks.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Bella
Bella
6 years ago

Just back from the pub, about midnight. Ordered my last glass of wine at 11pm, asked about 10pm restrictions coming in tonight, landlord said fuck ’em. Left with a smile on my face. Exactly, fuck ’em.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago

Ealing Council leader saying we must take advantage of Covid re active travel infrastructure

https://youtu.be/DsyWxI-krO4

Active travel = walk and get wet, ride a bike and get wetter faster.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago

A simple mention to an unsung giant of sensible skepticism.
Mike Robinson. First rate work.

WhyNow
WhyNow
6 years ago

Isn’t it funny how the 10:00pm curfew causes people to go out earlier to get the same result! Doesn’t the government realise that people adapt their behaviour to work around the constraints? That’s why the Australian restrictions on drinking ended up with Happy Hour, to get fully soaked before driving home (maybe apocryphal, don’t know).

The idea that a communist behavioural scientist is calculating how much infection we transmit with different levels of restrictions is Peter Sellers level of crazy. In fact, I can easily imagine Inspector Clouseau as a member of SAGE.

BobT
BobT
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

Nah, The Prime Minister is Clouseau

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

Short video of the busiest London has been in months – 10pm curfew
https://twitter.com/kirstylewis6/status/1309244883023126530?s=20

Jonathan Palmer
Jonathan Palmer
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

It was good to see some life in London again.The human spirit shining through.
Problem is this will make them want to shut everything down again if it’s not already planned

OKUK
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

Clouseau retrained ss an epidemiologist. I can just imagine him at the PowerPoint presentation. ..upside down graphs and so on. 🙂

James
James
6 years ago

Me again. One of the problems with this whole mess is the lack of any sense of agency in ordinary folk myself included. We give our power away to politicians, doctors, scientists, technologists in the naive belief they will one way or another look after us. And we allow for their stupidity and greed and vanity and mock them sometimes for their foolishness and vanity. We even get really, really cross when they are obviously corrupt. But do we ever seriously think: “ My moral laziness might have something to do with this.”?
In other words: we get the leaders we deserve. Bill Gates and Boris are symptoms of our own collective irresponsibility. We need to treat them as such and then deliver them to Mars.

BeBopRockSteady
BeBopRockSteady
6 years ago
Reply to  James

Turn your anger against them. The guy who ploughs the field and joins his friends in the pub after is no danger to you.

There is an element of Platos Cave analogy to all this, you know the shadows on the wall are not real and there is in fact a puppet master. You have broken the chains and have gained that knowledge. It’s not for you to then say those still in chains deserve their fate because you were once there.

James
James
6 years ago

I am not sure I understand you. I am someone who is awakening painfully. I have been lazy and complacent . I thought until very recently that all this conspiracy stuff was paranoid nonsense. Not anymore. And the conspiracy word needs to be shelved.

But if we start to awaken I think we have a duty to help others awaken too. Sometimes that means prodding gently . Sometimes that means giving a kick. We are all in this together. Some people need to be left alone to continue sleeping. Some people need to be removed from positions where they are actively doing harm.

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago
Reply to  James

I have been trying to “wake people up” for literally my whole life. With very little success. People just cannot take on board what you need to take on board to understand the nature of how things are. It’s way too big and scary and it totally incompatible with the programming nearly everybody is programmed with.

James
James
6 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

Nonetheless, we need to try. God is patient.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  James

I think the phrase ‘try to’ is too heavy handed. Plant seeds for thought to my mind is better.

To prove my point I’ll ask you to tell me how JFK was murdered. You might exactly know or be way off. Neither is going to convince me.

People must connect A to B in their own mind in order to know it to be true or have a respected possibility of truth.

Epic frustration lies in trying to convince. It can also be fun if you’re lucky enough to find a sporting mind.

Eddie
Eddie
6 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

It’s the good life folks. We Westerners have had it so good for so darn long, the majority of us don’t truly give a F what’s being done by the 1% because we live great lives and we’re too busy earning the $ required to live them good lives.
Why question the system (or Shit-stem as P. Tosh called it) when participation in it rewards us so? This is why most hold to the line “oh they wouldn’t do such a thing.”

BeBopRockSteady
BeBopRockSteady
6 years ago
Reply to  James

Sure. You should share what you think you know. Just remember that you once considered all of this just a big conspiracy theory. But a certain book or article or video changed that perspective and took you somewhere else.

That will always happen and why you need to keep an open mind. The next book, the next chat with a friend. They could change you again.

But it’s just a thirst for knowledge, truth and such. It’s a quality. Some don’t have it or don’t know that they do. Or maybe they apply in betting odds rather than the nature of things.

Your opinions may change but your desire to learn more and understand that nature will be what make you you.

Anonymous
Anonymous
6 years ago

“The Government is clearly making decisions based on narratives and ideas presented to them without scrutinising them at even the most basic level.”

“There is no conspiracy here, just colossal incompetence and negligence.”

Ummmmm…… can you see the contradiction? It’s not incompetence or negligence, it is – as accurately observed – making a decision based on narratives and ideas presented to them…… yes, that would be a conspiracy.

Why does everyone think that all the operatives in a conspiracy need to be “in on it.” They do not…. very few need to know what is going on so long as they are operating within an ideology. I think anyone still vomiting forth the words to separate themselves from the “conspiracy theorists” think that we’re some sort of filth-ridden, foul-breathed masses that they must never be associated with or their social life is over forever. You’re social life is already over forever…. it’s been deemed illegal!

By a conspiracy.

Called United Nations Agenda 21.

Get reading, because you have a computer, the internet and the time to read this page, so you can read the United Nation’s plan for you and your children and your grandchildren. You’ll have significantly… Read more »

James
James
6 years ago
Reply to  Anonymous

Well said. I’m not a conspiracy theorist. I’m a believer in the great plan. They really believe we will let them
away with this.
And we might.

godowneasy
godowneasy
6 years ago
Reply to  Anonymous

Superb! “Why does everyone think that all the operatives in a conspiracy need to be “in on it.” They do not…. very few need to know what is going on so long as they are operating within an ideology.”
Yes, it’s the ideology. It’s not about Bill fucking Gates. Even he is a pawn in the chess game. National governments have no clue – they are following the script. So what’s the point of trying to persuade “our leaders” by writing letters?
Please ignore, too late, lost the plot, good luck to all.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago

If ever a tweet spoke the truth this is it.

“This unstable personality is effectively running @scotgov
‘s #COVID1984 policy.
@NicolaSturgeon follows her, follows Boris, follows SAGE. #FirstFollower

“As more local lockdowns begin, the hard truth is there’s no return to ‘normal’ | Devi Sridhar [link to guardian article]”

https://twitter.com/Albion_Rover/status/1309248573201096706?s=20

It is fitting on a day when devi’s week long msm circuit reaches the zenith of an appearance on bbc question with bruce that she is recognised for being an unstable personality.

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
6 years ago

No, sorry, simply don’t think I will be able to watch Question Time tonight – Louise Haigh (Labour, scarlet red hair that matches her lippy), Sir Ed Davey (Lib Dem, green but suspect by his girth he overconsumes something inappropriate), Peter Borg Neal (Pub boss, doesn’t look anything like Tim Martin), Alok Sharma (Tory, limited brain power) and then, Devi Sridhar (need I say more than Chelsea Clinton).

Basics
Basics
6 years ago

https://youtu.be/3ZO5Dyj8zSE

A recent walk around NYC discussing said Chelsea Clinton with Charles Ortel. Digs into positions on foundations and trusts.

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
6 years ago

Devi is so full of rubbish. How she’s managed to portray herself as a subject matter expert I have no idea.

Youth_Unheard
Youth_Unheard
6 years ago

After last week’s terrific show, first one I’ve watched in months, I simply could not face tonight. I imagine it was entirely fear mongering need to lockdown hard and fast, and hearing that go unchallenged is just too much.

Steeve
Steeve
6 years ago

Talking to a neighbour of my parents. She was in M&S in the queue for the café. She was standing on the 2 meter marker when the couple in front said she was too close and could she move back. She replied “why don’t you move to the next marker?” (which was free). They didn’t want to do that because they would be too close to the people in front on the following marker (2 meters). It sounds like there was a lot of chuckling in the queue about the couple wanting a 4 meter space instead of the 2 meters! Anyway she was having a good laugh about it. She said that she would have moved but the woman had asked with the wrong attitude! Sounds like it gave a few shoppers a bit of entertainment and a laugh. PS all wearing masks but a bit of a commotion about meters!

AngloWelshDragon
AngloWelshDragon
6 years ago
Reply to  Steeve

Really people who are that paranoid probably shouldn’t be out at all.

Steeve
Steeve
6 years ago

I know. I think they did made it to the counter though!

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
6 years ago

Indeed, lock them in at home and throw the keys down the nearest drain.

Liam
Liam
6 years ago
Reply to  Steeve

I don’t find any of this funny any more. If anyone tries that with me again I’m going to punch their face in.

Youth_Unheard
Youth_Unheard
6 years ago
Reply to  Steeve

For all intents and purposes, this is sensible. If it truly was a highly dangerous and infectious disease I would not be happy with the minimum government required distance. Absolutely more sensible to stand as far away as possible. But completely right for others to laugh at that, we have to move to making those still in fear feel like they’re in a minority and make them realise they’re bringing it all upon themselves.

James
James
6 years ago

Good evening everyone,
I am driving( being driven ) down to Somerset from Scotland. So, I have time to write.

I have been chatting with Anna Brees a little. I think what she is doing is amazing. Really brave. I want to do on e of her little video sessions but I hesitate because my perspective on the situation keeps changing. A lot of people on this site are effectively talking about regime change. I can get in on that when I am feeling particularly desperate. But then
I think what would that really accomplish? I have not seen anything or anyone in British political life to encourage me to believe that a changing of the guard would make any real difference. They all
seem to believe one way or the other that the virus is very real and must be dealt with as a unique challenge. No one outside Belorussia or Tanzania as far as I am aware has questioned that narrative. The con census is that a vaccine if possible is desirable. Many ( probably most) doctors and serious scientists realise that this is nonsense. Some recognise it is dangerous nonsense. But at a public health level there… Read more »

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
6 years ago
Reply to  James

Anna is doing good work you are correct, will be interesting if you do put your thoughts onto video.

Interesting to read your thoughts.

Rowan
Rowan
6 years ago
Reply to  James

Your post is very much on the right lines. Everything points to one very rich man.

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago
Reply to  Rowan

Yes… Just watched this : https://twitter.com/Bazzaf3/status/1309234815233929217 which scared me as it is about Sweden (follow the timings in the video given on the link). I listened a couple of minutes longer and that horrible clip of Bill G and Melinda literally laughing about ‘the next one’ made me feel sick…

Re the Sweden bit, I am not sure when the film was recorded but I will try and investigate further..

Chicot
Chicot
6 years ago
Reply to  James

Not just Belarus and Tanzania. Brazil barely had a lockdown, only local ones, since Bolsanaro was completely sceptical. It has been hit hard but it’s death rate is pretty similar to most of Latin America and way less than Peru, which had a severe lockdown enforced by the military. Pakistan and Afghanistan abandoned lockdowns early due to the economic costs being too high. Both now seem to be through the worst and have lower death rates than India which has stupidly been trying to enforce a lockdown, which will probably kill far more than Covid.

James
James
6 years ago
Reply to  Chicot

Thanks for the extra information. I had hoped Muslim countries might deal better with this. Apparently not – on the whole.

Jonathan Castro
Jonathan Castro
6 years ago
AngloWelshDragon
AngloWelshDragon
6 years ago

I always smile when I see you on the Telegraph threads. I’m there under my real name of Sue Ward. I love sporting other Lockdown Sceptics putting the boot in to bedwetters too!

Kath Andrews
Kath Andrews
6 years ago

It was brilliant, as someone commented on here yesterday, the last few minutes are genuinely chilling.

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago
Reply to  Kath Andrews

Can’t get my head round why something ‘chilling’ can be regarded as ‘brilliant’…

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  Carrie

The reporting, investigation and communication are brilliant, the content is chilling.

A councillor has tipped UKC off that local authorities in England and Wales are now being collapse. 8 or 9 regions with mayors are to be set up.

Few have any idea about this, UKC are on the case giving background and asking for other councillors to come forward and increase understanding of how far advanced are the operations in each LA.

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Regions and mayors are an EU thing – will Brexit be temporary, with the UK being outside the EU only temporarily, whilst being prepared to seamlessly glide back in within a few years?

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  Carrie

Not a place to talk brexit. But you get an idea in the UK Column about how that senario has been on the go for 25 years. Cornwall features in the story.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  Carrie

Yesterdays programme by the column was epic.

swedenborg
swedenborg
6 years ago

The reason for not using HCQ in most Western countries early in the treatment of C-19 is that there has not been a Randomised Control Trial(RCT) proof of efficacy. But the same countries have swallowed mask mandate without any RCT. Other countries (mainly non Western) have still used massively HCQ early in the treatment of HCQ. The following graph would perhaps better have an explanation from the Western countries. This graph shows deaths different countries according to early HCQ use or not use of HCQ.

https://twitter.com/campb_analytica/status/1309187968578461696

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
6 years ago
Reply to  swedenborg

I thought use of HCQ use was quite common in Italy and Spain early on? https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/2/hydroxychloroquine-rated-most-effective-therapy-do/

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

I understood HCQ trials into efficacy had been designed to trial large toxic doses to trial participants who simply fell ill due what amounted to overdoses of HCQ. The trials were stopped as a result. It was known that relatively tiny amounts of HCQ are effective.

I presume things have moved on in the months since.

Nessimmersion
Nessimmersion
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Everybody, the most useful HCQ comparators are here for early use, charts scroll across top of page ( cwrtainly shows how much of a lie the anti HCQ / zinc mob are indulging in) :
https://c19study.com/

BeBopRockSteady
BeBopRockSteady
6 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

And a doctor in France was silenced after coming out in favour. Switzerland used it, then followed WHO guidance, then went back to it.

Nessimmersion
Nessimmersion
6 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell
Telpin
Telpin
6 years ago

Even thought he’s not my constituent MP I received a very supportive, sympathetic personal reply from sir Graham Brady . He clearly is serious about his amendment. Restored sone of my confidence in MPs. And I’m not a Tory but he seemed decent.

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago
Reply to  Telpin

The cynic in me says that as chairman of the 1922 committee, he has an eye on the Conservative party’s chances at the next election…

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
6 years ago
Reply to  Carrie

Will we ever see another open election?

Jody
Jody
6 years ago
Reply to  DoubtingDave

It’s an interesting question. I suppose the point is that anybody who is likely to gain power will already have been pre-vetted by the powers that be. I mean, look at Kier Starmer; he provides no opposition at all, and only wants the government to go even further than it is doing.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago

DT has an interesting looking article.

“Who in their right mind would download Matt Hancock’s Covid app?

Leaving aside the track and trace app’s fiddliness, downloading it is like volunteering to be spied upon by the health Stasi”

Briefly spied the app is fiddly in use but that is not the issue. It is sinister.

String
String
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

My local evening news this evening had a brief segment on this – a couple of people played with it, thought it was ok, but I would say 80% overwhelmingly negative comments. Even the newsreader presenting the segment admitted he’d had to get a phone from someone else, because the app didn’t work properly on his phone!

Offlands
Offlands
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Received this text from Barclays today:

From today, 24 September, if your business has a physical location that is open to the public, you’ll need to display a NHS QR code at the entrance. This is to support the Government with its track & trace scheme – you can register and get a code by searching NHS QR Code online. Your Barclays Business Team

Fuck that. Office stays shut.

Jody
Jody
6 years ago
Reply to  Offlands

There’s no distinction, anymore, between big business and the government. Barclays just spews out government propaganda.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  Jody

Fascism isn’t it?
Macdonalds requiring it to be loaded to a teenagers phone or not be served was commented upon earlier. It’s a sick country we are in.

Offlands
Offlands
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Incidentally, my daughter

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  Offlands

You’ve had a pretty intruded upon day!

Really wrong.

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago
Reply to  Offlands

how is the apendix one?

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  Offlands

Why Barclays? As in am I missing a connection or are they acting outside what is normally expected of a bank?

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

They have form for shutting the bank accounts of people and businesses whose politics they disagree with..

Offlands
Offlands
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

My business bank. I imagine others have sent the same.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  Offlands

Yeah – I just am taken aback a bank would act in such a way. It’s got nothing to do with them.
Acting beyond their authority.
How would they respond to you telling them to display a painted rainbow outside their bank ?

Sue
Sue
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

indeed who would download a crappy government app that is likely to not work correctly and send you a snotty sms to isolate at home – and if you don’t and caught fine you £10k. Durrrr why oh why would anyone download it??
I read somewhere that the german stats for download were not great and singapore was about 33% and they are more compliant generally as a society. Will be interesting to see how the uk download figures are but i wouldn’t trust what this gov says anyhow and will massage the figures. As said elsewhere here i think they will make it mandatory in time when the option to download is low uptake.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  Sue

Sky news gave out a stat 1 in 9 people told to isolate by TnT were doing so. They gave other stats about people with a symptom not getting tested – as you say why would you?

A national ‘telling off’ will come. At which point is is for us the people to act like adults and put an end to this with demonstrated mass non compliance.

If the non compliance is happening we need to show it en mass, Berlin-style.

Now More Than Ever
Now More Than Ever
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

My employer has demanded that everyone who is back working in the building must download the app.

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
6 years ago

Harsh. What sort of place do you work at out of interest?

Achilles
Achilles
6 years ago

Isn’t about time they had the guts to actually call lockdown what it is? Lock up.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  Achilles

Lockdown is a term used in US prisons. Lock down lock up lock away are all apt.

Annie
Annie
6 years ago

The immortal Will invites the Pig Dictator and his mob to adopt the following self-description:

“What should such fellows as we do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves all. Believe none of us.”

Hamlet III.i.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago

.

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Try again please, the link is broken

zacaway
zacaway
6 years ago

First night out under the new rules. Obvs got kicked out of pub before 10pm. Staff all muzzled, making comms difficult.

Went with 4 colleagues who haven’t see for 6 months (used to go for beers after work regularly). Two full sceptics – talking about coronabollocks, other two bought into the guff, although not enough to be afraid of sitting 6” apart?

Told to wear mask to table, then allowed to free our faces. Supposed to wear masks to the gents, but 50/50 adherence.

By end of the night, none of my group seemed to even remember mask to leave via cashier. No issues with that.

Feel sorry for the staff – not their fault. Agreed it’ll get worse & most likely be more restrictions to follow up the Fuhrer’s threats.

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago
Reply to  zacaway

Sounds totally horrible.

Andy C
Andy C
6 years ago
Reply to  zacaway

Agreed, it’s not their fault as such. I get the impression that training was non-existent ahead of this, though. I went out to a couple of pubs tonight. The first one was empty, save for a bloke sat on his own in the corner. The lad behind the bar (who I know) asked me if a scarf qualified as a face-covering, and argued with me when I explained that nobody was obliged to prove their exemption to him. The second was a miserable experience. I know the manager well, but the woman behind the bar was downright rude when confronted with the idea that I’m exempt. Her response was, and I quote:

“What’s up with you, then?”

Sufficient is to say that I didn’t stick around.

Farinances
Farinances
6 years ago
Reply to  Andy C

Unless we can find obliging local boozers, we need to resolutely STARVE these people of money until they realise their businesses won’t survive unless they relax. We can break the law drinking at home.

zacaway
zacaway
6 years ago
Reply to  zacaway

Yep, definitely could have been worse – nobody was being belligerent about the rule following – “just following orders”.

Was good to find out what people really thought & heartening to find others who don’t buy into it.

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago
Reply to  zacaway

could have been worse? how?

Liam
Liam
6 years ago



Fingerache Philip
Fingerache Philip
6 years ago

Back in the 50’s and early 60’s if a kid in parts of the black country showed symptoms of measles, all the mothers organized a “Measles party”
so all the local kids caught it and got it over with as quick as possible.
Measles was and is a killer disease, so what’s the problem with a virus that even the “experts” agree is rarely serious in children?

Ovis
Ovis
6 years ago

As I have said before on here, our situation now would be so much better if in February we had all just licked each other.

Fingerache Philip
Fingerache Philip
6 years ago
Reply to  Ovis

AGREED.

RyanM
RyanM
6 years ago

Well, maybe I’m wrong about the United States:

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/09/law-enforcement-priorities.php

All I know is that the sheriffs and police in my county have stated that they are not interested in being used to enforce covid restrictions, and that they are not going to hassle anyone. I guess that is not the case in all jurisdictions.

leggy
leggy
6 years ago
Reply to  RyanM

At least you’ll have some on your side!

RyanM
RyanM
6 years ago
Reply to  leggy

We are a pretty large country with a lot of diversity in our laws. It’s a good thing that, when people are living in a state with massive restrictions, those people can talk to relatives living in free states (with no covid problem) and start asking questions. There is no national policy, so we all get to see which ones work and which don’t (which doesn’t stop democratic-run cities and states from going to shit… but they don’t learn lessons).

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago
Reply to  RyanM

Which state are you in?

James Leary #KBF
James Leary #KBF
6 years ago
Reply to  RyanM

I’m waiting to get back to NV. The condo’s had no a/c on all year. God knows what’s broke. Neighbors say it’s ok though.

skipper
skipper
6 years ago

The Total reported admissions to hospital and diagnoses in hospital figures for the two areas of England that have been locked down since August seem to show that being locked down has caused these figures to more than double:

North East and Yorkshire
August 315
September 767

North West
August 379
September 946

The definition of the admissions is “The number of patients admitted in previous 24 hours where patient known to have COVID-19 plus patients diagnosed in hospital with COVID-19 in previous 24 hours”.

Most of these people probably did not present at the hospital with COVID-19 symptoms, they more than likely were admitted to hospital or attended hospital for a different illness, but because everyone has to be tested when they attend a hospital, so when the test comes back positive even though they have no symptoms they are classed as a COVID-19 admission. So the figures are fudged and with False Positives then these figures are highly inflated.

matt
matt
6 years ago
Reply to  skipper

Well. Lockdown doesn’t seem to work. That definitely means we need more lockdown.

skipper
skipper
6 years ago
Reply to  matt

The lockdowns have also increased the deaths too:

North East and Yorkshire
August 30
September 56

North West
August 58
September 75

AngloWelshDragon
AngloWelshDragon
6 years ago
Reply to  skipper

heads they win, tails you lose. They will just say “well imagine how bad it would be if we hadn’t locked down”. Time we all accepted there is no reasoning our way out of this. Everyone inclined to come over to our side has already done so. The rest are too scared or too invested in Covid to budge (for a variety of reasons, none of them good!)

DRW
DRW
6 years ago
Reply to  matt

Same with masks.

leggy
leggy
6 years ago

Fiona Rose Diamond and Kate Shemirani arrested today apparently. No surprise I guess. Makes me more determined for the weekend.

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
6 years ago
Reply to  leggy

Excuse my ignorance, I know who Kate Shemirani is but I have no idea who Fiona Rose Diamond is.

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago
Reply to  DoubtingDave

Me neither, know about the former but not the latter…

JulieR
JulieR
6 years ago
Reply to  leggy

Must be ahead of the protest this Saturday. They are evil.

LyndsayHopkins
LyndsayHopkins
6 years ago

if twitter is anything to go by there are a lot of people who are very unhappy with the covid policies especially masks. Unhappy to the point of depression and suicidal thoughts. I was thinking about trying to set up a private Facebook page to act as a support / friendship group for people to chat and be supportive, helpful and friendly to each other in an environment where people aren’t going to be ridiculed or accused of being selfish or uncaring. Does anybody think this could be helpful? Does anybody have any ideas about it that I have missed or would like to be involved?

OpenYourEyes
OpenYourEyes
6 years ago
Reply to  LyndsayHopkins

Only thing that matters now is we do as we all wish we had six months ago, and protest this in our nation’s capital.

Tom Blackburn
Tom Blackburn
6 years ago
Reply to  LyndsayHopkins

FYI….What you see on Twitter (as a sceptic) is not necessarily representative of what’s out their. As for the support group – I’d rather not be painted as victims but can see merit in your idea

Yawnyaman
Yawnyaman
6 years ago
Reply to  LyndsayHopkins

Not for everyone, but will be a huge help for some

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