On September 3rd, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) – an independent panel of experts – advised against offering COVID-19 vaccines to healthy children aged 12-15.
The panel concluded that, although “the health benefits from vaccination are marginally greater than the potential known harms”, the margin of benefit is “too small to support universal vaccination”. However, it did recommend expanding the list of underlying health conditions that would qualify someone in the relevant age-group for vaccination.
The panel’s recommendation apparently came “as a blow to the Government”, which for some reason really wants to vaccinate healthy children.
Immediately after the announcement, Health Secretary Sajid Javid wrote to the U.K.’s Chief Medical Officers asking them to “consider the matter from a broader perspective” (which reads like bureaucratese for “ignore the recommendation of the JCVI, and find a new justification for the policy”).
And it’s worth asking: if the Government does decide to ignore the JCVI’s recommendation, and offer the vaccine to healthy children anyway, will it adopt the slogan: “Don’t necessarily follow the science.”
I can understand why children with an underlying health condition would be worried about getting COVID-19, and it seems right that they’re being offered a vaccine. However, for the overwhelming majority of healthy children, the disease poses virtually no serious risk.
The main justification for vaccinating young people is to protect older people. But given evidence that natural immunity provides better protection against infection than the Pfizer vaccine (the only vaccine approved for those aged 12-15), this justification looks increasingly weak.
It’s now abundantly clear that vaccinated people can transmit the virus. Hence the only true safeguard – for a child visiting a vulnerable grandparent, say – is a negative COVID-19 test beforehand.
However, even if the vaccines had no side effects and offered the same level of protection as natural immunity, it would be unethical to vaccinate children at the present time. And that’s because it’s a waste of vaccines that could go to people who actually need them.
Rather than offering vaccines to children and young people, rich countries like the U.K. – which have so far been hogging all the vaccines – should donate them to elderly people in poor countries.
Even though a government must always look to the interests of its own citizens first, the benefit/cost ratio of donating vaccines to poor countries is so vast that this principle is hardly relevant. People forget that the risk of death from COVID-19 is not just higher, but orders of magnitude higher, for elderly people.
I said that Britain should donate its remaining vaccines to poor countries in an article back in July. The same argument has been made by several other commentators, including – mostly recently – two scientists writing in the journal Nature.
Zain Chagla and Madhukar Pai argue against vaccine ‘booster’ programs on the grounds that far more lives could be saved by administering vaccines in poor countries. The global vaccine supply is limited, they note, so “this is a zero-sum game”. Every vaccine given to a healthy British 12 year-old is one that can’t go to a 70 year-old in Africa or Latin America.
Even discounting side effects, it’s unethical to vaccinate 12–15 year-olds in Britain when a such small share of the population in poor countries has been offered a vaccine. COVID-19 is a disease that disproportionately targets older people, while posing almost no risk to children. Our vaccination policy should reflect that.
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PCR testing….
I just give up to be honest.
Its the whole point.
Its also a pretence of still living in a free country, you’re not of course, you are a prisoner and your masters have allowed you out on parole to places YOU don’t want to go to.
I’m surprised Atlantis wasn’t on their list.
How can you have ‘a pre departure test at destination’?
Fecking idiots
lol – well spotted
“There was a young lady named Bright
Who travelled much faster than light.
She started one day
In a relative way,
And returned on the previous night.”
So of course she got the results of her test before she’d taken it. Simples.
I guess they meant your holiday destination, since the system is for UK residents visiting other countries (if the Falkland Islands is a country), not foreign residents visiting the UK.
The Falklands, Ascension, St Helena and Gibraltar are not countries but are British overseas territories, which is why a naval task force was dispatched when Argentina invaded in the early 80’s.
You may have hit the nail on the head. It might be the only way we can have a holiday, thumb a lift on an aircraft carrier going that way!!
To get to Tristan Da Cunha you need to fly to Cape Town a red list country and then catch a mail boat which only takes 12 passengers and the crossing is rough. Don’t think Shapps and the civil service have the faintest idea of where most of these places are and how to get to them. The green list shows the government are definitely taking the p..s.
https://tristandc.com/shipping.php
And the travel time might take you longer than 72 hours, so your PCR test is worthless. Any tourist attractions on these islands or do I need to bring my own tent?
A large volcano.
That places like this have been put on the green list just shows that the government are taking the piss out of the general public. They must be pissing themselves laughing at the plebs
And of course you can’t go to Australia or NZ.
The new Penguin Hilton on South Georgia is highly recommended, though.
You actually win a free PCR test if you can point to the South Sandwich Islands on a map. What a fucking joke the list is, only Portugal could be considered a major holiday destination. This will do nothing to help our struggling airlines and tour operators. The government may as well not bothered with a green list, unless countries are going to be added to it once they sign a post Brexit trade deal or corrupt dictators launder money through off-shore bank accounts to the Conservative party.
I feel sorry for people with relatives abroad. For myself – I’m not going anywhere until this whole nonsense blows over. That may be never again.
They are laughing at us. Did someone compile a list of the 12 countries least visited by the British and then publish it? Add Portugal to pretend it has been thought out
lol
“South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands”
that’s my weekend city break back on the cards then!
Mmm…Sandwich
Amateur radio operators would love to get to these places and play radio. But to get there is a many thousand dollar exercise involving charter antarctic boats and battling through ice bound seas. Once you have been there and managed to come home alive covid is the least of your worries.
I have for some time actually thought many of the restrictions were thought up to take the piss out of the plebs as well as keep us in line. I just imagine them sitting around in a private members club (sans masks and SD of course) saying I wonder what we can get those morons to accept next. They probably all wet their pants with laughter coming up with that list, with a special prize for whomever thought up South Sandwish Isles.
This is me – I have an uncle in Perth Australia and an an aunt in Adelaide – I also have a cousin in Parma Italy – plus some old friends living in Spain (Madrid mainly from when I studied there) – my aunt and uncle in Australia I would usually have visited once a year and my cousin in Italy a couple of times a year – the same goes with my friends in Spain too.
I haven’t seen any of them for 18 months now.
I feel exactly the same.
My sister’s youngest and his famiy are out in Dubai (red list) She hasn’t seen him or the grandchidren for over 18 months and despairs of seeing them anytime soon.
It’s all just wanton cruelty
Green does not mean go. Green is the new amber. Use of language to redefine reality has been key in this evil.
Spot on
“The lowest cost of these (PCR) tests is £60.00”.
Only after Grant Shapps ‘cracked down’ on the government created cozy covid test Cartel who have been charging up to £300.00 a time for returning travellers until private operator TUI announced they would provide tests for just £20.00.
Repost from earlier since topical.
I hear that there is a shortage of sun loungers in the Falkland Islands. So I guess that destination is out. But seriously, this is just taking the piss.
The amber list is massive. Looks tempting. At least until you consider the quarantine restrictions. Who wants a jackass from Mite knocking on their window ? Or Trap and trace ringing you up whenever they like ?
I don’t understand at all really what they are achieving here other than trying to look like they are doing something. While trashing the travel industry. Loonies. All of them. No wonder Johnson sent Grant Snaps out to the presser. Even Johnson didn’t want any splash back from this.
And how come I need to provide a passenger locator form, can’t I just say “Asylum” instead ?
You can ignore the quarantine nonsense, it’s the testing I want nothing to do with.
That’s true. Never had a test myself. I do not consent to medical procedures without a risk assessment.
I don’t understand at all really what they are achieving here other than trying to look like they are doing something.
Thats exactly it – looking as though they are doing something because of the massive balls-up they have made to begin with. Reminded me of this quote by Thomas Sowell …
It’s not about politicians creating solutions that are not, or covering their past mistakes. It’s about tightening the vise of control and taking away our freedom and the joys of living.
I saw an advert from Mitie for a covid marshal yesterday, £13.20/h.
Not bad.
What they are doing is making our life shit, so that, when they tell us we now all need to do X to stop life being shit, we’ll say “great!” and do it.
That was the idea behind mandating pointless masks, we would be allowed to take them off if we got the vaccine. They lied.
I don’t understand at all really what they are achieving here other than trying to look like they are doing something.
perhaps the results of allowing large numbers of vaccinated people to come in contact with wild corona viruses in other countries right now might be too noticeable.
How long can airlines etc survive in this pisstake environment??
Not long; trashing the airline industry, in particular budget carriers, was always part of the wider plan.
British Airways owner IAG reported a doubling in first-quarter losses to more than €1.1 billion.
Passenger capacity in the period was less than 20% of equivalent levels in the same period in 2019.
Putting the airlines out of business was always part of the plan once the climate change brigade (under direction from Klaus and his WEF pals) realised that a minor public health issue could be hijacked for their own ends. People need to be quite clear – passenger air travel for the masses is gone and is never coming back short of a total revolution where people finally understand that that man made global warming as a result of CO2 emissions is a fairy story. Unfortunately another ice age is far more likely than any such realisation. Meanwhile an executive aircraft operating company has just ordered 20 supersonic biz jets that are still on the drawing board – go figure. https://robbreport.com/motors/aviation/netjets-aerion-20-supersonic-jets-order-1234599702/
Spot on. Covid has been ‘weaponised’ to, among other things, drive the ‘Green Agenda’. No more flying for the plebs, just for the rich and privileged.
Yep, you can bet there will be still be a surge in the private plane industry
Speaking of such things – my mate tried to book her driving theory test during the week. Can’t get a test date until the middle of 2022! Given that they’ve not been doing tests for a year and it doesn’t look like they’re increasing capacity to deal with the backlog they’ve effectively reduced the number of drivers on the road by 1.5 million in a year – which is….convenient?
You’d have to be mentally ill to take the risk of leaving this country on holiday now.
But just leaving the country is becoming increasingly far from daft!
You’d have to be mentally ill to consider staying in this country.
It doesn’t mention vaccinations in the table above. I know that Portugal have said that it won’t require people to have been vaccinated in order to visit there.
Won’t this make it more difficult to introduce vaccine passports in the future if unvaccinated people have been able to travel to these countries from May 17th?
I don’t think so. The demand for “passports” will be introduced by the destination “nations”.
I think you missed my point. How many of these countries require a vaccine passport from May 17th? Genuine question-I don’t know the answer.
I made the point a couple of months ago to my MP, regarding the possible introduction of domestic passports. If people were being allowed back in pubs and restaurants without them from May 17th how would it be possible to bring them in at a later date and say that they weren’t required after May 17th but will be required at some point in the future?
I agree that this may be a ray of hope! I am hoping that more countries will allow you to take an antigen test to prove that you are naturally immune. I’m still never going to consent to testing and masking though so may be moot for me.
Unfortunately you are using logic here and we are now living in a post-logic world. One in which, for example, twice weekly LFT tests have just been introduced in my NHS workplace when the positivity rate is lower than the published false positive rate!
given
a) our red/amber green lists will change
b) the rules for countries in each list will change
c) each destination country has their own arrival and departure rules
d) destination countries’ lists and rules will change
changes are very likely between booking and leaving and likely while on the actual holiday
I just can’t see why anyone would bother. I’ve been abroad – its a shit-hole anyway
Haha come on, there’s “abroad” and “abroad”… in a moment of desperation earlier in the year I booked a week in Greece and I’m beginning to wish I hadn’t bothered with that though.
I jest. I’ve seen a lot of the world and bits of it can be very nice. A lot of scruffiness about though. I can’t stand a) litter b) stepping in human faeces c) poor toilets. Which is basically France.
You’ve given me another laugh there, I work for a French company with a lot of French people, would bloody love to see their reaction to that comment!
Before the euro’s introduction a comedian mocked France where the money fall apart but you can’t tear their toilet paper.
France is just somewhere you fly over on the way to somewhere nice.
Its not designed to be stepped on or stopped at.
I visited Ukrain when still a Soviet Republic, you could tell how far east you had travelled by how disgusting and revolting the local ‘stand and squat’ toilets were.
Lovely people though.
This is the possibly the most insane policy of them all since this CCP Virus arrived. Virus just does not thrive in this country in summer outside the NDS of course. Huge potential economic damage for nothing. Mind you some of these airlines deserve shafting, they have not helped themselves.
Australia is shut to foreign visitors until next year. It’s farcical. But not funny.
Cautious while they try to sort out the Segregation passport and crashing the world economy for The Great Reset
I think maybe it is time for a ‘Red Pill’ movement to begin. Basically anyone who subscribes to the ‘Red Pill’ ethos will not expect any person in their company to abide by the ridiculous covid/lockdown edicts, and vice-versa. Basically, to live like a free human, pre-2020. This could even be expanded out to businesses, pubs, hospitality etc. And such that anyone entering the premises will be left to their own devices and not be expected to dress in hospital theatre attire. Maybe even a Red Pill logo could be used to inform anyone that this is a free human zone?
In general we (me and the Mrs) no longer mix with covidians. Mutual loathing.
They’re worried about this. Hence the Covid Marshalls.
They are laughing all the way to the Commons Bar
This is all just utter nonsense now – it really is first class claptrap of the highest order – this is a government that doesn’t know whether it is coming or going – its a government that is full of contradictions and inconsistencies – they must all go to the commons bar and get completely drunk and then decide what other insane nonsense they can come up with – they probably have a sweepstake to see who can come up with the most wacky and absurd rules and restrictions to see how far they can they can go with this rubbish – so far they must be laughing their heads off at the utter stupidity of the public and the extent to which they are willing to accept this lunacy. This is not about the virus – this is now politics and if people still can’t see through this bunk then they deserve everything thats coming to them. My fear is that its been so long now since people were initially told ‘three weeks to flatten the curve‘ back in March 2021 that the public have now forgotten what exactly this was originally all about in the first place and have now been totally conditioned to accept any old garbage the government feeds them whether its about the virus or not. If anyone thinks this nonsense is going to end any time soon then they are in for a very long wait indeed – this won’t end until we say it does.
Eh, March 2020.
Yes, it’s a carefully planned psychological operation. I’ve been surprised by its success (but not pleasantly, of course). The narrative is subtly modified so that massive change can insidiously be wrought upon us.
For interest / comparison: https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html
‘They’ have been surprised how successful they have been.
Bunch of bloody clowns.
I’d book my trip to South Georgia, but if these chisellers notice a bunch of us try to go there then a BBC ‘Lethal Covid Variant found in Gentoo Penguins’ headline is sure to follow.
Cautious?
This insanity has been going on for 14 months now without an end in sight – this government has no intention of handing back our freedoms.
This is not caution this is slow deliberate mental torture until we surrender.
Now a serious discussion about Rockall. The Faroe Islands are on the green list, but Rockall is not mentioned. The UK view it as ‘Scotland’ but this is disputed by Iceland. I realise Iceland is on the green list but certain formalities have to be followedhere which do not apply to Scotland ( yet). And the Malvinas, sorry Falkland Islands, are they completely outside Argentinian considerations, acoording to the UK this is disputed. Obviously the same would apply to South Georgia and its islands; the penguins might be confused.
Portugal obviously includes Azores and Madeira, but Canary Islands because they are Spanish in the same general location with no problems doesn’t.
Its just a load of complete bollocks.
Except for viewers in Scotland! Waiting to go out and see our sun in a perfectly safe place with high fax rates but no. Effectively we are living in a public health police state where mediocre spivs like Sturgeon, Johnson and Shaps get a massive platform to taunt us with a limited relaxation of our freedoms. A public health bureaucrat stands by but shares no evidence. The fact that Tristan Da Cunha and Rockall are on there tells us we are getting sod all. Until we stop meekly accepting this it will go on
What? Australia? NZ? Tristan de Cunha? Are they taking the f***ing piss?
And the tests racket. See you on the streets next Saturday.
Of course they are, in bucket loads!
This kicks the ‘learn to live with Covid’ platitudes completely out of touch. It’s zero Covid now, no ifs, no buts.
Incredible …
Turkey was added to the red list.
Not surprised at all, 2 days after the BBC reported how people avoid quarantine by travelling via turkey.
Its a “green list” specifically designed for the government to claim travel is available whilst making sure its only to places that either wont let you in or nobody wants to go to.
Its laughable.
Singapore, Australia, New Zealand. Nice places….But wont let you in.
Brunei – shouldnt exist at all. pointless place.
Gibralter – OK to kill a few hours. Thats it though.
Falkland islands – Can only get there via the RAF!
St Helena – Lump of rock.
Tristan de Cunha:- From wikiepedia “It is the most remote inhabited archipelago in the world,”. Its a volcano 6 miles across with a population of 260. You can only get to it via a 6 day cruise from red listed South Africa.
Sandwich islands – WTF. Population zero. An island chain just north of Antarctica. It has no infrastructure, no airport and the only method of access is a private chartered yacht.
They’ve picked lumps of rock with literally zero population on the outskirts of Antarctica in the middle of winter with no feasible means of getting there and said “Travel is legal if you want to go here”.
They’re taking the p*ss and they know it.
You can’t argue “its because its a British Overseas Territory” because they’ve left off the Cayman islands which has 75% of its population vaccinated and hasn’t had a single domestic case for 6 MONTHS.
Meanwhile red list additions are Maldives (no cases at all on the islands which are where people go) and Turkey (the only major transit hub in/out of the UK now the Middle East is closed).
Its a travel list designed to make it impossible or at the very least, not worth traveling.
Great summary, made me laugh (through the tears). They are 100% taking the piss!
Agreed, in spades
In what way is this rubbish cautious?
Restrictions are disastrous, not cautious.
The law of unintended consequences. Grant Shapps has increased vaccine hesitancy gigantically in a stroke.
The absolute majority of those taking the vaccine without any real health reason has taken it for the vaccine passport to have the freedom to travel. What do they get compared to unvaccinated travellers coming back to UK? Nothing different, the same test and isolation procedures as for the unvaccinated. They can only escape quarantines, as for the unvaccinated, from their dream holiday visiting the South Sandwich Island, They also need a pre departure test in South Sandwich Islands, which could be difficult to find among the penguins.
What about the advantage of at least coming into those tourist paradises on the amber list? Do we have scores of normal tourist countries now requiring only vaccination for allowing visitors? Not as I am aware of. They all seem to accept vaccination passport but all of them have test as a requirement as an alternative or even proof of having had C-19. Yes, the unvaccinated might have to pay 60£ extra for the trip leaving the UK but might reluctantly accept that as a price to stay unvaccinated for no heath benefits and in worst case scenario only disadvantages of the vaccine.
Will these amber countries continue with vaccine passports in lieu of test? Perhaps not. Yesterday, Australia, to their great surprise noted that six persons in their hotel quarantine turned out to be positive despite having been fully vaccinated.
There is even a risk that even that advantage for the vaccinated persons will disappear.
Do we think tourist countries in Europe will make entrance even more difficult for UK tourists when they now know that family tourism from UK will cease this summer? Won’t they now be even more desperate to get any tourists at all by instead scrapping any entrance requirements? Everybody knows that endemic low circulating C-19 will occur in all European countries this summer making no difference entering or leaving countries as regards the C-19 risk.
This must be the biggest single-handed stroke against obtaining the vaccine because of travel for ordinary tourists. They have tricked millions of people of having the vaccine, well in the knowledge that they would be desperate to holiday after the LDs.The psyop has been a brilliant operation.
The whole charade of travel requirements is the best proof of zero covid policy of UK and the promised opening up of UK is a shamble as long as no one can travel as before.
What a shitshow. The final nail in the coffin for the travel/aviation industry? These are not market conditions upon which anyone would choose to travel surely?
Oh no, just heard on the radio news the winging benidorm babies all moaning that they had their jab and stayed indoors for a year and all they wanted was a holiday. And Spain is on Amber. So one week on holiday two weeks in jail. I feel sorry for them cos they probably voted for the fat pig dictator on Thursday too.
Even in a group as stupid as this government’s ministers Shapps has always stood out
So where are the headlines, “People in the UK are prisoners in their own country”,
because that is exactly and literally what we are. Why would it matter where I go, if you’ve got rules for when I come back?
Is it because if every one of us went abroad and came back and we were all ok it would show this nonsense up for what it is? I’m thinking yes!