In the latest Vaccine Surveillance report from Public Health England (PHE) the infection rate in double-vaccinated people in their 40s went above 100% higher than in the unvaccinated for the first time, reaching 109%. This translates to an unadjusted vaccine effectiveness of minus-109%.
Vaccine effectiveness continues to drop fast in all over-18s (see chart at top), hitting minus-85% for those in their 50s, minus-88% for those in their 60s and minus-79% for those in their 70s. (For definitions and discussion of limitations see here.)
Vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation and death continues to hold up in all age groups, though with some signs of decline, particularly among older people.
There is still nothing from Government sources acknowledging this failure of the vaccines against infection, its implications for policy and analysing what might be behind it.
Discussion
Comments
This week across the site:
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The unvaccinated are able to mount a full, broad spectrum defence against Delta, whereas the vaccinated are reprogrammed to fight the original strain. In some cases this works, in others not so well. As the virus mutates further away from the original strain, and at the same time vaxxed immunity wanes, the vaccinated will be considerably more prone to infection than the healthy unvaxxed.
Sadly, because the fascist global state doesn’t give a damn about your health, they have failed to communicate this to the plebs.
Sorry for the stupid question, but could somebody please explain these data? I can see that vaccine effectiveness against infection seems to decline over time (for people aged 30+). But how many months after vaccination do the above figures represent?
It is going to vary. Oldest people, about 10 months now. Younger people, 3-4 months. Which is why they look like they still work in the under 30s. In about a month, that will start to switch is my guess, just as it did a month ago with the people in their 30s.
I guess it is just a technicality, since it is really just another lie, but can anybody figure out how, even in fantasy world, they got to a totally implausible figure of 24m infections prevented by the vaccinations, to date. just out of interest you understand.
So far as I can work it out, Professor Pants/Lock Down read it in the entrails of his breakfast egg and soldiers one morning.
This seems misleading, possibly deliberately. The percentages given are only valid if the proportion of vaccinated versus unvaccinated tested are given and are the same. As there is a far higher proportion of vaccinated in all adult age groups, I suspect the percentages would be quite different if adjusted to take that into account. The numbers would still be far worse than those of the vaccine producers, but not as bad as suggested in this article.
I read it as being per 100k. So in the age range under discussion, 40-49, a shade under 1500 per 100k are ‘infected’; compared with c700 per 100k unjabbed. So exactly as suggested in this article.
Mind you, what do I know? I’m just an alleged granny killer.
Zoe highlighted the trend months ago and was immediately got at.
I saw some PHE figures that made it clear the vaxxed were having higher infections and hospitalisations and even in some age cohorts death, per 100,000, than the unvaxxed, in some age cohorts, per 100,000. As the inference here was so anti-narrative, they decided to switch the denominator from NIMS to ONS or vice versa, to manipulated them back around the way they wanted. Either way, vax not making much of a difference. And to be honest, why would it? It reduced an individual’s personal risk of severe disease and death by 0.8%.
Do any of these claims that the jabs have reduced hospitalisations and deaths take into account the fact that it appears that the virus has mutated into a much milder form than the Wuhan virus of last March/April?
Can’t remember where I read it but someone described the current situation as fighting this year’s war with last year’s weapons, which I thought hit the nail on the head.
It may be milder unless you have been jabbed and of course there is nothing mild about myocarditis and lots of the other nasties that are vaccine caused.
Is it milder? Or is it being treated better (less ventilators, people not being sent to care homes and pumped with midazolam)?
If we can see this, so can Whitty, Vallance, Boris, Starmer, Many Many MP’s, Journalists & the rest of the snake oil salesmen aided & abetted by the MSM, But they don’t give a HOOT! do you know why? Because, we take it! & The More we take, the more they will SHOVIN ! That’s How it works.
From our critical thinking friends from across the pond:
“The Unvaccinated Are Looking Smarter Every Week”
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/10/the_unvaccinated_are_looking_smarter_every_week.html
For this coming Halloween I’m going to put on a very scary costume. It’ll be a tee shirt with ‘UNVACCINATED’ on it, on the back I may have “I vont to kill your granny”.
I can hear the screams now.
Track and treat 🦇
The stats for the under-18s are interesting too.
Somebody who was in favour of 100% of people being vaccinated commented to me recently that the fact that in the under-18 age group the infections are occurring principally in the unvaccinated, proves the efficacy of the vax for this age group.
However, this is unlikely to be true, since that data is much more likely to be simply a reflection of the proportion of that age group who have had a vaccine, which is tiny compared to those who haven’t.
It’s like saying that in a controlled trial of 100 people, 90 of whom were female and the remaining 10 were male, the results showed that infections showed up mostly females, and therefore females were more susceptible to infection. But probability law indicates that the greater level of infection in that group happens by default because there are more of them!
In most OTHER age groups, however, since most of these have been vaccinated, the bar graph above is a more effective gauge of vaccine efficacy.
Of course, this is only a surveillance of how effective the jab is against INFECTION, and not against severe expression of the disease (where we… Read more »
…’ and not against severe expression of the disease (where we know it works well).’
Do we know that?
My lovely neighbour, 44, is a care worker for adults with mental health issues. A few weeks ago, she felt a bit rough and tested positive for Covid. Her husband, who had been ill the previous week and her son also tested positive. Both adults had been double jabbed.This morning she told me that she had had her booster shot. I asked if all the care workers at her place of work had been vaccinated, because otherwise they were likely to be sacked in November. She didn’t know about the other workers’ vaccination status and wasn’t even aware that any unjabbed are likely to be fired come November!
A few weeks ago, I asked my MP to find out why the government had cancelled the Valneva vaccine order. This is the one based on the whole inactivated virus rather than just the spike protein. The government had given two excuses for this cancellation; one that the company had breached its contract agreement, which Valneva strongly denied and the other, from Javid, saying that the vaccine would not have gained approval from the JVCI. This latter statement was later changed in the records to “had not yet gained approval…….and may not”
… Read more »
“yesterday’s appalling tragedy”
The real “appalling tragedy” (as opposed to one-off unpredictable, sad, incident) yesterday was the continuing preventable growth of waiting lists and undiagnosed critical disease, child abuse, and deterioration in the nation’s collective mental health.
There is still nothing from Emperor sources acknowledging this failure of the new clothes against nudity, its implications for policy and analysing what might be behind it.
Look, new clothes don’t work 100% of the time and they were never meant to provide absolute skin concealment. The important thing is to remember to wear your new clothes; that way I won’t have to walk around naked.
Anyone remember when Grant Schapps ‘misspoke’ on the bbc and said fully vaccinated are much more likely to get and carry covid. Well I guess we know this was a Freudian slip and not misspeaking as Full Fact claims lollll check it:
https://fullfact.org/health/grant-shapps-video/
The clip in question: https://www.facebook.com/chrispreddie/videos/589147822248098/
The PHE document has some strange things.
They say 65% had at least one dose, 97% have antibodies yet only 19% of these antibodies come from infection alone.
They say that the vaccine prevents infection yet apart from the young, recently vaccinated, their figures show the opposite.
They say that the vaccine prevents transmission, and that there is no transmission without infection, yet their figures demonstrate that vaccination must therefore increase the chances of transmission.
And finally they do not consider whether vaccination itself, which after all creates parts of the virus, does not result in positive PCR tests. This in itself would create an large increase in false positives in the vaccinated, thereby suppressing their rates of hospitalisation and death. This would make it appear that the vaccine is effective in the most important categories.
Hold on a second … dailysceptic – you are doing a bit of cherry picking yourself now. While the above is correct and taken from the report – the report also shows that those that are vaccinated are less likely to die – if I am lookng at it correctly. (see attached image)
So – like all of these topics – it is important to take a broad view and consider all of the factors and information.
All that said – I still belive that vaccination should be a personal, and hopefully well informed choice..
It’s a very small sample size, a very small absolute risk and we don’t know the underlying health of those involved. Hard to draw firm conclusions.
Yes, this is the one glimmer of usefulness that believers cling on to, except that the data also implies that many less people would actually contract the disease in a vaccination-less society which would surely reduce the hospitalisations and deaths? What a mess!
In the future we un-jabbed may need to get ourselves ‘passports’ to show that we are ‘clean’, so that those un-jabbed who have not had covid can be at less risk from the jabbed who are spreading this virus.
Yep I can also see us being the only ones wearing masks too! Not the leopard print fashion type though, more of a hazmat suit!
This update has been clear throughout that the vaccines seem to be holding up in terms of preventing deaths. That efficacy seems to be weakening by the week, however. Regardless, if there are twice the number of infections in vaxed as opposed to unvaxed, as there are in forty year olds, vaccine passports are patently absurd.
lds001: looks like you didn’t read the whole post. If you had clicked ‘Read More’ then you would have seen that there was not cherrypicking. Even without clicking the ‘Read More’ the table showed the rates for hospitalization and death.
If you read the whole post you will see that there are three charts with coloured lines showing vaccine effectiveness for infection, hospitalization and death over time.
Plus there is the statement “Vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation and death continues to hold up in all age groups, though with some signs of decline, particularly among older people.”
I think, therefore, that your comments about cherrypicking are very wide of the mark since the data was fully given for hospitalization and deaths.
Moreover, given the context, it is not cherrypicking to point out something very unusual in the data, viz that rates of infection in many age groups are much higher in the vaccinated that the unvaccinated. That is a truly astonishing observation, as is the admission (which I have pointed out many times) that even Pfizer themselves, in their submission to the FDA on September 17, stated that their vaccine effectiveness had declined so fast over a few months in Israel… Read more »
Even if that is true it’s largely irrelevant to the main issue we all have with the vaccine. I have no problem with anyone taking whatever drug they want if they want to – I have a massive problem with being told I have to take it.
If you still spread C19 when vaccinated – and particularly if you are more likely to spread it – then vaccine passports are not only unnecessary but actively dangerous.
if you want to trade a very low, known risk of Covid for a completely unknown risk of vaccine injury then that’s your call – but the case that I should have to do the same should now be dead in the water
Less likely to die if you don’t get it in the first place though
Just extend the y-axis to 100,000, and you will get the true picture of the differences, which are minute. That’s why the absolute risk reduction figure is vitally important.
I think last week the ARR for my cohort was 0.00023%.
This is exactly the whole point of vaccination, to get the vaccinated infected without ending up in hospital. But the “sceptics” just don’t want to understand, and the vaccine pushers are too concerned to communicate it clearly – because it would sort of undo their former lies about how vaccines reduce infections.
I have no issue with people wanting to be vaccinated, I just don’t need or want it myself and I shouldn’t be punished for that because the vaccines don’t stop people getting or transmitting covid.
Dear Will
Questioning the value of vaccination of those at very low personal risk from COVID (e.g. younger people) is a very worthwhile thing to do, and I applaud your sceptical approach in this regard.
However, several things
1 So boosters then?
The data you present here makes the case for booster shots IF you want to reduce infection as well as death & hospitalisation. Protection against infection dropping fairly quickly as the months go by has long been known, and is key in the drug companies booster justifications. The acceptance of the booster program is one of the Governments policy responses to this data. I.e. when you say ‘There is still nothing from Government sources acknowledging this failure of the vaccines against infection, its implications for policy and analysing what might be behind it’ this isn’t true regarding cause or policy adjustment.
I suspect some of your readers might not have twigged you are here implicitly supporting the boosters.
2 Figure 2 rates by vaccination status
You present this graph implicitly as a gotcha, which appears to have been misinterpreted by some readers as showing that getting a vaccine makes you more likely to catch COVID. This is partly… Read more »
I am not sure about your theory here:
A possible explanation (and I’m guessing) is currently I believe the UK has massive infection rates in secondary schools, and parents of school age children are commonly in the 40-49 bracket. I’m not sure what this might mean, but a wild speculation: 40-49 year olds with kids in secondary school might have been more likely to get vaccinated (social pressure?) and are now much more likely to have recently been infected (via their kids). I.e. the infection rate difference might be explained by differences in the population behaviours.
You could well be right about the cause of a high infection rate among a demographic that is likely to have teenage children. However, why would the infection rate differ between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated? The children of both groups go go school, and the children of both groups bring it home again.
A biological explanation should not be dismissed. ADE, or vaccine enhanced infection, could well be age dependent due to immunosenesence which means an antibody response – either protective or enhancing – is stronger in younger age groups.
This is masked at the moment in younger age groups as… Read more »
Ah.PS. You say here:
Your article above states ‘vaccine effectiveness continues to drop’.
If it drops, it must have existed yes?
Your article’s entire point is that the vaccines DO stop people getting COVID but this protection then drops (pretty rapidly). The surveillance report you link to gives the figures for this. So it’s not much of a secret is it?
As such your comment here doesn’t seem to make sense? Unless your point is unless vaccines provide protection against infection forever they are useless? Clearly that can’t be your point.
An article on vaccine effect on COVID transmission also welcome.
Of course limited duration of protection matters: it totally shifts the risk benefit ratio.
These vaccines are emphatically not side effect free. They are among the most dangerous vaccines I have ever seen, with a profile you might accept in the midst of a raging Ebola pandemic, but not for something with a 99.7% survival rate.
To accept this risk for protection that lasts mere weeks (2-3 weeks post second vaccination until perhaps 5-6 months post vaccination) is nuts. And increasingly nuts the younger and healthier you are.
Mandating this risk, or coercing people into taking it, is patently insane.
Rayc, if that is true, why are they aiming to vaccinate children? Their risk of hospitalisation with COVID is de minimus
Their risk of hospitalisation with the vaccine is higher.
I think the point is
1) small numbers – There is a risk in over interpretation
2) but accepting it is true, and the jabs – temporarily at least – reduce the likelihood of hospitalisation and death from COVID, is this sufficient to outweigh the hospitalisation and death we are seeing from vaccine side effects? That we are in a period of sustained excess non COVID mortality suggests they do not.
So we know, as fact, that the lust for a “vaccine passport” is nothing to do with infection control, at all. In fact, it’s 109% not infection control.
Which leaves a rather difficult question for those who think our government is simply incompetent or misguided, and who have shied away from the most malign explanations given by “conspiracy theorists”, doesn’t it?
If the green cards aren’t about virus control, what are they for? And what on earth are the “vaccines”?
The trillion dollar question. My wife gets irritated with me constantly trying to work this out but I need to know! In order to prepare accordingly…
The vaccines reduce your risk of severe disease, albeit only temporarily. The passes are to encourage people who took the vaccines to mingle and get infected with the real thing, yielding long-term immunity. They are also there to keep away the unvaccinated, whose higher risk makes it more likely that they end up in ICU and clog the hospitals for everyone else.
There, I worked it out for you.
Absolute nonsense.
And the latest from my mate who informed me last week that he was really really really ill with the vid… He could barely stand up or breathe!
Today’s update?
“it’s a good job I had been double vaxxed because… thankfully I only got a mild dose”
He can’t wait for his booster top-ups!
Is this to be the next phase of the psy-op? We the great un jabbed continuing to spread our filth, transmitting and trying to kill the jabbies through their jab shields.
Never forget Bob. He’s a proper bad arse!
Jim Bruer uses satire beautifully, to sum up the world we currently occupy. I love this and it’s a much-needed breath of fresh air…
https://youtu.be/GRv7gMCsTjU
Getting tired of all this? feel alone?
BandStand in BlakePark – Bridgwater – Somerset. Every Sunday 10am meet like minded people who can see the bleedin’ obvious.
Telegram: Connecting Warriors.
Other venues are available all over the country but you won’t find their details on MSM.
If unsure A good start would be Telegram groups for your area. “A Stand in the Park – Bracknell & Wokingham”. Via posts from our very own ‘Lockdown Sceptic’ A regular here on DS
Dr Ugur Sahin, the COVID-19 vaccine he designed for Pfizer was designed in just few hours in a single day on January 25, 2020.
No other vaccine in history has been created and manufactured so quickly. Previously, the fastest vaccine ever developed took more than four years.
co-founder of BioNTech
Not only that, Pfizer Chairman (((Albert Bourla))) hasn’t gotten around to having his shot, or Dr Ugur Sahin, last I knew.
And it went from laboratory straight into human arms without any animal testing first – mRNA never used in humans ever before – doesn’t that strike you as odd?
Have you noticed how all new vaccines and medications are going from Laboratory into human arms without animal testing now, that is because the Pfizer vaccine, above, set a prescedent and everyone has jumped on the bandwaggon and is doing the same thing – no testing – massive profits immediately and more instant billionaires at the cost of you who stupidly take their concoctions, or are forced too by Biden.
And this is why – regarding next post: Army Doctor & Aerospace Medicine Specialist LTC. Theresa Long Calls On Pentagon To Ground ALL Pilots That Have Taken COVID Shots
Added by Johanna Anim Caviezel on September 28, 2021.
Lieutenant Colonel Theresa Long, who is an Army Doctor and Aerospace Medicine Specialist, provided an affidavit in which she recommends the Secretary of Defense to ground all pilots that have received the COVID shots.
The affidavits reads in full below. Do a search of this article for the word “pilot” and you will notice the petition of LTC. Long in point 39 below.
I, Lieutenant Colonel Theresa Long, MD, MPH, FS being duly sworn, depose and state as follows:
1. I make this affidavit, as a whistle blower under the Military Whistleblower Protection Act, Title 10 U.S.C. § 1034, in support of the above referenced MOTION as expert testimony in support thereof.
2. The expert opinions expressed here are my own and arrived at from my persons, professional and educational experiences taken in context, where appropriate, by scientific data, publications, treatises, opinions, documents, reports and other information relevant to the subject matter and are not necessarily those of the Army or Department of Defense.
… Read more »
Vaxxed Delta Pilot Dies In-Flight; Southwest Flights Have Mass Cancellations
· October 12, 2021
Reports of hundreds of canceled Southwest flights have been met with all kinds of excuses, and Stew Peters says somebody’s lying.
It’s not bad weather, like Southwest claims, he says. And, it’s not FAA problems either, because they say there haven’t been any air traffic control problems that would cause massive flight cancellations, despite reports that air traffic control agents walked off the job in Jacksonville, Florida, in protest of vaccine mandates. So what is it? Other airlines didn’t have mass cancellations.
Peters says it’s probably the vaccine mandates that Southwest just laid down for all personnel — and, he says, “there are reports that pilots are joining the resistance as well” even though the pilots’ union denies it.
Adding to the scandal are reports of a Delta pilot who died in-flight within the last 10 days. The co-pilot said he just suddenly died. The co-pilot also shared that the pilot said he’d just gotten his second COVID shot a few days earlier.
“It’s much bigger than people think,” the co-pilot allegedly said. Not only that flights are being diverted due to pilots with chest pains. A… Read more »
My Covid Crusher – the way to end the pandemic dead and for zero cost!!
The assumption is that the only way to deal with Covid, is after it arrives as Covid in your body, after the initial cold infection, in your head, some 20 days earlier
.
Why is that?
Kill the Flu or Coronavirus in the head, soon after getting the virus in the nasal passages inside the head, with my free salt water cure, which flushes out the nasal passages (so no Long Covid) and kills off the Coronavirus infection, immediately, or during the 10 to 14 days of self isolation.
No infection in the head, no Covid – it is as simple as that.
Then the purpose and functions of the vaccines, ceases to be a problem and you simply can’t get sick and won’t ever get Covid.
Mix one heaped teaspoon of “iodine” table or sea salt in a mug of warm or cold “clean” water, cup a hand and pour some of the solution in, then sniff or snort that mugful up into your nose, spitting out everything which comes down into your mouth, from the back of your throat, by so doing, you… Read more »
This nasal rinse plus gargling has been recommended by many eminent medics for all clinical staff.
Interesting. When I was a small boy at boarding school, when Macmillan was PM, we all had a compulsory gargle of purple permanganate of potash every winter morning. I also had some condition for which a salt water gargle was prescribed by the school doctor. I don’t recall any outbreaks of anything, even when we were frozen in for weeks in the 62-63 winter. However, living conditions, both at school and at home, were rather more Spartan than nowadays, and it was usual to wake up to frost over the inside of the dormitory windows.
Started doing this a few years ago, although not very consistently.
Last time I had a cold which I knew was definitely a beginning cold, was February 2020, after a flight (always get a cold after a flight in winter).
Because it was early days of the lurgi and I was concerned, I was more consistent with the gargling. Woke up Sunday morning with sore throat and clogged nose, after the salt water regime, woke up Monday with everything clear.
Since then, any time something seemed like the onset of a cold I immediately use the salt water. No cold in the last year and a half. Have been out and about, no mask wearing.
Well, if you had the vaccination and you were a horse in a horse race, then with the Pfizer jab you had an 0.84% chance of winning the race and Covid had a 99.16% chance of winning the race and with odds like that, I would bet my bundle on Covid and not you (much laughter)
As you might say, 6,500 doctors can’t be wrong: Former Pfizer VP: 0.84% ‘Clear evidence of fraud’ in Pfizer study claiming 95% efficacy
posted by Mordechai Sones September 30, 2021 10:58 am
America’s Frontline Doctors (AFLDS) Chief Science Officer Dr. Michael Yeadon yesterday said there is “clear evidence of fraud” in the Pfizer study that purports to claim 95% efficacy in their COVID-19 “vaccine”.
Yeadon was commenting on an article appearing in The Lancet and critiquing a documentary that scrutinized a Pfizer efficacy study, calling the distinction raised therein between relative risk reduction and absolute risk reduction “accurate”.
The Lancet article, entitled COVID-19 vaccine efficacy and effectiveness—the elephant (not) in the room, says that although attention has focused on vaccine efficacy and comparing the reduction of the number of symptomatic cases, “fully understanding the efficacy and effectiveness of vaccines is less straightforward than it might… Read more »
So seasonality kicks in and shows it up for the sham it is !!
Time for certain politicians to wake up. Some of them are deliberately attempting to impose policies built on a lie, in effect (so called ‘passports’, e.g.). To my mind, anything done that way is invalid, and unsupportable. If they were honest, they’d have to admit that their project appears to have failed, but no doubt they will try bamboozle their way out of it.
Playing devil’s advocate here…… Looking at the 60-69 age bracket, cases 314/100k, hospitalisation 32/100k and deaths 20/100k. On the face of it, for fearful 60-69 year olds. the jab looks a good choice if you think you’re going to be a case in the first place.
Is it possible that this un-jabbed older population is made up of two distinct groups?
One group being the healthy awkward squad who never get tested, barely notice the sniffles, keep fit and healthy and take responsibility for themselves and never become a “case”.
The other group being the “too ill to jab” or contra-indicated because of other medical conditions and are likely to get tested regularly.
Both are made up of very small numbers.
I suppose I’m saying, is it possible that, whilst younger un-jabbed age groups are a real mix, this older un-jabbed group members is made up of polar opposites.
To understand better we would indeed need to know more detail about the health profile of those hospitalised and dying from/with covid as they are fairly small groups and outcomes depend enormously on underlying state of health
I’ve been keeping score! Here are the results so far.
Two. The number of people I know personally who tested positive for Covid last year. One of them, a doctor, was off work for a few weeks but not in hospital. His doctor had prescribed antibiotics in case it was really a chest infection. The other, with COPD, was fine.
Eight. The number of double jabbed people I know who have tested positive for Covid this year after showing symptoms. Two of them also passed it on to their children. This number includes the mother of my grandson who was rushed into hospital last year with bacterial pneumonia, possibly as a result of mask wearing.
It’s just not healthy being a Covidian.
Ha ha! No it’s not!
2020: not a single Covid case in the wider circle of me and my whole family’s acquaintances
2021: 1 stroke, 2 GBS/Parkinson syndromes, 2 falls (1fatal) after fainting, 1 hospitalisation for clotting, 1 fatal heart attack (63yrs), plenty of persistent long term side effects, all after getting jabbed.
Countless Covid infections among those jabbed anyway, of course.
Me thinks, we/they have been sold a lemon, and more of them start to think so too- still unable or willing to connect all the dots though.
Unwilling, above and beyond all else. The push over here was not as harsh as in other countries, resulting in very high uptake. They’ve been jabbing the 12-15s here since the summer and I’ve not heard much protesting about it.
But jabbees I’ve spoken to about these things are aware that they can still catch and pass on the bat plague and like obedient children take a test if they have a sniffle. And look somewhat bemused when relaying a story of someone who became very ill or died, despite being vaxxed.
They remind me of those people you see on those tv programmes about people who have been scammed by internet romance conartists. Sending thousands to someone claiming to be some very nice Brit or American – with a Nigerian accent and poor English – and even when presented with the most incontrovertible evidence that they have been duped, still clearly *want* to believe that they have not and that the stolen picture that they have been sending money to really is the love of their life. Same scenario – people want to get back to normal, they want the vaxx to work – so it works because they’ve… Read more »
I read on the BBC the other day that the vaccine reduces chance of infection by 50%, and that 1 in 3 people can spread Covid without any having symptoms. What utter nonsense.
Can we report them for misinformation?
I’ve had this figure presented to me by a Covidian colleague who seemed to pluck it out of his arse. Now I know where he might have picked up the misinformation. Should have guessed…
Since the number cases per 100,000 people is clearly related to the number of people getting tested the figures may not be a true representation of the number of people catching covid.
If the majority of unvaccinated people are anything like myself (healthy and therefore in a low risk group), aren’t scared of covid and haven’t been brainwashed by the government then they aren’t going to go running to the nearest test centre every time they have the slightest sniffle. (In the past 18 months I’ve had several mild infections that could’ve been covid, but were more likely to be a cold, and never bothered to get tested).
Therefore the figures based on positive test results could be missing a lot of mild cases in the unvaccinated, but picking them up in the vaccinated simply because the vaccinated are getting tested more often.
Therefore a much better way of assessing vaccine effectiveness would be to compare the percentage of tests that are positive in the 2 groups, if the data is available.
Just curious why “vaccinated” people would be getting tested in the first place. Are they actually encouraged to do so, if they get the slightest sniffle, when they go for their second jab, or in the pamphlet they get? Just seems odd that you’d get jabbed only to have zero confidence in the stuff you’ve been jabbed with, and still behave like a paranoid hypochondriac! Crazy.
A lot of people are still testing regularly for work aren’t they? That might make the data more representative. At work we have been invited to take part in saliva testing (i assume this is some kind of trial), might have signed up to it if the email hadn’t gone on to say they still expect participants to do two LFTs per week
The funny part is that I could take this graph and put it in the face of most people I know and show them that it comes from Public Health England and they would still somehow arrive at the conclusion that I was a dangerous lunatic spreading mistruths. They’re too far gone. I suppose by about the fifth booster and the 17th round of breakthrough covid, they might be ready to start talking. We’ll just have to let them get on with it in the meantime. They’re on a one way trip to Jabsville, will they ever get back to Sensetown? I need to go to bed.
Last weekend, I was talking to a friend. During the conversation, she told me she had been double vaxxed and asked me if I had been ‘vaxxed’. I told her I wasn’t sure what the relevance of the question was but no, had no intention to be and that was my considered choice. She told me that was my right, to exercise personal choice and she thought it was a terrible idea to bring in vax passports and the various discriminatory tactics and she did not view anyone any less, she respected their choice. She even laughed and said how ridiculous it was, the suggestion that everyone should be vaxxed to protect everyone else, and that it was well known that ‘you can still catch the virus and pass it on when vaxxed!’. I asked how she felt about that aspect and didn’t she think it was a pointless exercise queuing up to be injected, especially with a new pharmaceutical preparation that had no long term data and questionable data to date. She confirmed she was aware of all this and it was a bit worrying. She does not agree with children and younger people being injected and is doubtful… Read more »
Fascinating.. the way your friend is able to separate the vaccine itself from the political environment in which it emerged. I’ve seen this too in family members, they acknowledge like your friend that many of the reactions and policies have been over the top or counterproductive but haven’t seen that as a reason to turn down the vaccine. That’s even if they are well aware that Pfizer et al have a record of malfeasance. My father in law is a retired pharmacist who wrote a novel (!) 10 years ago about a gigantic pharma scandal and, well, he’s just had his booster. Remarkable. It’s fear isn’t it? It’s also generational, and I think particularly to his generation (early 70s) just unthinkable that a fraud on this scale might be possible. Hard to hold your truth and not be gaslighted in these circumstances isn’t it!
I’m sure the older generation have more trust in institutions, but why are so many young people so ready to believe?
A very interesting question. I’ve been saying for a while now that it’s down to us Gen Xers (if that’s what you are!) to sort out this mess!
Yes I just squeak in to generation X! But what to do? I know the 17/18 year olds have been thoroughly brainwashed (I work at a 6th form) but was hoping for more kickback from 20-somethings?
My DD (Mumsnet 🤢) is in her early 20s and very much kicking back but her friends not so much. For them it seems to be about pragmatism; travel, etc) they’ve had it very easy in life really haven’t they; we can’t expect them to be revolutionaries. But then neither are we really. However we’re old enough to have a sense of political identification and dissatisfaction and (in my case) criminalisation as an illegal raver! The idea that authority doesn’t have your best interests at heart. In a sense, we’ve all got Tony Blair to blame for ‘cleaning up’ the image of politics.
Maybe because the vaccine reduces your chances of getting to hospital with a covid-19 infection. Just a wild guess.
Hmm whilst increasing your chances of catching it it seems..
Yes, and so what?
You’re an enigma. Very hard to pin down your position. You don’t like creeping authoritarianism but you seem to believe that vaxports serve some genuine purpose – today at least – although their stated aim is a lie, you believe. I’ve had covid and don’t want or need a vaccine for something I’ve already had, especially when side effects are a known risk. No bs here I don’t think.
I’m not sure what is so hard to understand about my position.
The world is not black and white. Bad policies can be somewhat effective for reasons different than what the policy-makers publicly declare. And they can still be wrong policies for more important reasons.
The principle of individual liberty is more important than the protection of public health from a disease which is 2x as deadly as seasonal flu.
Keeping an unvaccinated person out of public life will reduce their risk of infection, and encouraging a vaccinated person to participate will increase their risk of infection. Because vaccines reduce the risk of severe disease from infection – similarly, but not as good as having had covid-19 – this policy even makes sense in terms of “getting through the pandemic with least possible deaths”. It is still unethical, based on deception, and certainly disproportionately harming certain groups for the uncertain benefit of others, therefore not worth it in terms of cost/benefit.
By explaining how these policies work I am not advocating them.
BTW, it is not the vaccines that increase chances of infection, it is the (desired) behavior of the vaccinated.
What? Not buying that. Are you suggesting that people who have decided to take their chances without it are somehow more cautious?
Yes, they are both more cautious (it is one thing to bitch about vaccines online and another to actually believe your own bs and risk your own health). Also, the unvaccinated are discouraged from getting back to normal life through barriers such as mandatory testing and vaccination passports. Many people (including myself though vaccinated) actively avoid any venues that impose these restrictions, in a way “voluntarily” locking themselves down.
Distrust in vaccines does not mean that you automatically believe that a corona infection is not risky (only the dumbest of the anti-vaxxers actually believe that).
You must have difficulty thinking straight. Tortuous logic at best.
Our case is that we have totally refused to ‘hide away’ as unvaxed. We have gone out of our way to conducty ‘ordinary’ life as much as possible. We have committed the ultimate sin of crossing several borders since this shit show started, putting ourselves in harms way according to your logic in metal sausages for hours on end with a bunch of vaxed individuals.
We have no idea if we have had the disease from the virus, we have only taken tests when absolutely necessary to travel, and then only one PCR so far. We may have been infected in Bangkok in January 2020 when enjoying Chinese New Year with thousands from Wuhan, but if we have we don’t know and have no wish to know.
There is absolutely no excuse for insisting on injecting people with an untested gene therapy for anything, nevermind something like seasonal flu. The draconian measures by governments to force conformity by withdrawing inalienable rights is wicked and evil. its clearly part of an attempt to change societies and create the environment for fascist biotech controls to be put in place.
In different ways… Read more »
Your detailed narration outlines aspects of the problem very well. This coercion is operating, to a great extent, way below the level of rational thought.
I did this with a colleague the other week. We both work in an area where our jobs involve analysis of clinical data and using it to advise people, and we’ve both been doing it for over 20 years. So you’d think we would look at the same report with its clear cut conclusions and come to some kind of agreement?
He had to grudgingly accept the jab potentiated infection, but immediately leapt to the “it still limits sickness and death,….protect the NHS” bullcrap.
It MAY limit pressures in the NHS from COVID temporarily, but without all cause mortality & morbidity data, we don’t know if it protects the NHS, and ACM is running above average with heart attacks and so on….now, I wonder what might be causing that?
I wanted to shout WAKE UP YOU DOZY FUCKER! But I am very professional.
My goal is to sow at least one seed of doubt every day, wherever I go. Keep chipping away.
You do right. That’s what Prof Matthias from Belgium was saying in his video re hypnosis and mass formation. Keep bringing the counter-arguments backed up with data and eventually it should sink in. These twits can bury their heads in the sand for only so long. Perhaps a Covid ward full of fully vaxxed this winter might get some to scratch their heads! lol
I listened to him too! Going to do it. Twice a day if I get the opportunity
I managed to turn my deeply entrenched mother-in-law. She went from thinking I was a crazed conspiracy theorist in Spring 2020 when I described it as a coup, to sending me the very video you describe on Mass Formation last week (as if I hadn’t already seen it!) I just chipped away each time I saw her and now she’s on the path of righteousness!
And has turned down the booster 💪
Result!
Trying to stop my parents from having the booster. Mum’s consultant is ‘strongly advising’ her to have it…. I’m using facts intertwined with emotional blackmail! Hopefully the blackmail will win….
Fighting emotive propaganda with emotive propaganda seems entirely appropriate!
I have found that indirect ridicule works too. I don’t attack the person, or any belief they have already stated. However, the absolute nonsense that is this pandemic response, is rife for ridicule.
Making someone feel stupid, without directly attacking them does have an impact.
That’s why I decided to reframe it setting it in the 1980s in my satirical YouTube channel which still hasn’t been taken down: https://youtube.com/user/CrisisGarden
How utterly infuriating for you! And the added layer to this of course is that we wouldn’t be seeing these hospitalisations and deaths if people were being treated properly with drugs that actually work. But as far as most people (even doctors) are concerned it’s untreatable. The whole paradigm is a lie; and we’re reduced to arguing the point on the terms of the criminals. I think that’s why I’ve ended up simply making fun of it all. ‘Wake up you dozy fucker’ is an entirely reasonable sentiment. I would like to fly that message from the back of a plane!
and we’re reduced to arguing the point on the terms of the criminals
We (well most of us) are readily accepting the existence of angels and their ability to dance on the head of a pin, only pausing to wonder how many might be able to ‘do a Strictly’ together on that pin.
💃🕺
📍
“Keep chipping away.”
I think that’s all one can do. Shouting and bawling at the unconvinced is totally ineffective.
Well your point about all cause mortality comparisons is spot in, IMO.
This has to be THE key metric. The facts that there must be smart people in Whitehall who know this, and that no such data is available is very telling indeed, and makes a properly considered decision on having the vaccine impossible.
And yet the mandates continue, because this is about control not public health.
…and slapstick comedy, apparently.
And all of us who were ‘courageous’ enough to volunteer (unasked) to form part of the untreated control group should be proud that this analysis was possible…
Doubt we’ll get any thanks for that!