Dr. Michael Mosley in the Daily Mail has written a piece criticising those like Novak Djokovic who say they regard themselves as in no need of vaccination as they have protection from a previous Covid infection. In the article Dr. Mosley – who is medically qualified but no longer a registered doctor and has worked as a BBC journalist for the past 37 years – makes a series of claims about the vaccines and natural immunity that don’t withstand scrutiny.
The first is that previous infection provides much less protection against Omicron infection than does vaccination.
Just because you have antibodies against a previous strain of Covid, that does not mean you are protected against catching, or spreading it to more vulnerable people such as patients with cancer or pregnant women. A study published in December, by researchers from Imperial College London, concluded that the protection against Omicron, if you have had a prior Covid infection “may be as low as 19%”. A course of vaccines – the double dose plus the booster – on the other hand, offers something like 75% protection.
What Dr. Mosley doesn’t mention is that the December study from Imperial was a preliminary study that also found no evidence of Omicron “having lower severity than Delta”. Omicron is now known to be considerably less severe than Delta, suggesting the study should not be taken as the final word on Omicron and natural immunity. A more recent study puts the protection provided by natural immunity against Omicron infection at 56%. This is higher than the level of protection reported for the boosters by the UKHSA, which finds just 40-50% protection at 10 weeks. The protection provided by previous infection is also more resilient.
Dr. Mosley’s explanation of why the protection from vaccines is supposedly superior to that from previous infection also makes no sense. He writes:
Why the difference? It appears that our immune systems are very good at learning from experience. The more often your immune system is challenged by a virus (or a vaccine, which is mimicking that virus), the better it gets at defending itself against it.
The first time your immune system encounters a virus it isn’t quite sure how to react and it takes time to start building an effective response. While that is happening, the virus is busy replicating, spreading and doing damage.
If you’re lucky, your immune system will spring into action and you will recover after a trivial illness. If you are unlucky, you end up in hospital, perhaps in intensive care. The idea of a vaccine is that your immune system gets the nudge to start working long before you are exposed to the real thing.
The reason for a second, and even third jab, is this amplifies and refines your immune response to protect you, and others, in the future.
This of course fails to explain why encountering the virus should provide less effective immune protection than a vaccine. Just because while your body is working out how to counter the virus the virus can make you unwell tells you nothing about how strong your subsequent immunity to re-infection will be. It is true that a vaccine mimics a virus to prime your immune system, and the idea of multiple shots is to improve that response. However, there is plenty of evidence that the vaccines are weaker and less resilient against infection than natural immunity. For example, see the chart below from a large Danish study, where the orange line for the previously infected (but not vaccinated) is higher and stays much higher than the green line for the vaccinated (but not previously infected).
It’s been suggested that the reason vaccine protection against infection (contra Dr. Mosley) is relatively weak and declines fast is because the vaccines, being based only on part of the virus and injected into muscle, do not produce the full immune response that encountering the full virus does. For example, encountering the virus produces mucosal (IgA) antibodies in the respiratory tract that are important in mounting an early response to infection; however, these are absent following vaccination.
Dr. Mosley then implies that vaccination is superior for protecting against new variants like Omicron and therefore better for preventing transmission and protecting the vulnerable.
Multiple exposures seems to be particularly effective at educating your T-cells, immune cells responsible for seeking out and killing dangerous viruses, and which are vital for conferring long-term immunity. T-cells also seem to be much better than antibodies at detecting and destroying new variants of Covid.
And this matters because one of the main reasons for getting vaccinated, as far as I’m concerned, is that by doing so you’re protecting others — particularly the vulnerable who cannot have a jab.
We know that people who are vaccinated carry a lower load of virus, and clear it faster from their bodies, so there is a much lower chance they will pass it on. Vaccines, of course, can have side-effects and are not 100% effective. One of the criticisms of Covid vaccines is that, despite being triple jabbed, you can still get infected and become ill.
As noted above, though, the evidence is that natural immunity is superior to vaccine immunity for protecting against infection, particularly over time and against new variants, so this argument fails. It’s also noteworthy that UKHSA data shows the vaccinated having significantly higher infection rates than the unvaccinated since the autumn, as does Public Health Scotland data, implying it is not true that the vaccinated spread the virus less than the unvaccinated.
The claim that people who are vaccinated carry a “lower load of virus” is also not supported by evidence. For instance, a study in the Lancet found no difference in household secondary attack rate depending on whether the index case was vaccinated, and correspondingly no difference in viral load. A study by the U.S. CDC also found no difference in infectiousness and concluded: “Clinicians and public health practitioners should consider vaccinated persons who become infected with SARS-CoV-2 to be no less infectious than unvaccinated persons.” UKHSA and others have also found viral load no lower in the vaccinated. These studies are all pre-Omicron, which is likely to be even more able to evade vaccines.
Dr. Mosley points out that protection from vaccination plus previous infection is superior to that from previous infection alone. This appears correct; however, as can be seen in the chart above, the difference is relatively small and almost all the protection comes from the previous infection rather than the vaccine. The difference will also likely diminish over time without frequent boosters.
Dr. Mosley disputes that antibodies from previous infection should be used as an indicator of protection.
Some people who are against mandatory vaccinations for NHS staff suggest we could test people for antibodies to COVID-19, and if they have them that would mean they are safe to work. But just because you have antibodies doesn’t mean you can’t infect others or get infected. That’s why regulators, such as the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, have recommended that antibody tests should not currently be used to evaluate a person’s level of immunity or protection from a Covid infection.
However, this argument applies with at least as much force to vaccination, as it’s evident that the vaccinated can and do frequently contract and transmit the virus, seemingly more than the previously infected. So on that argument, why should vaccination status not equally be deemed inadmissible as evidence of being ‘safe’?
Dr. Mosley’s article is a classic example of only presenting the findings and data that back up one’s point of view, rather than looking at all the evidence in the round. Perhaps the Mail will now allow a better informed (and even registered and practising) medic to write a more accurate piece so as to avoid its readers remaining misinformed?
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What the Covid Scam and the Climate scam both have in common is that they are both based on lies and false statistics.
Cheap Energy Deficit: Climate Industrial Complex Conspires to Impoverish World’s Poorest
https://stopthesethings.com/2022/01/17/cheap-energy-deficit-climate-industrial-complex-conspires-to-impoverish-worlds-poorest/
by stopthesethings
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In a nutshell!
Really good, Will. As I’ve said many times, thank God for you. BUT…my only problem is…DID he actually say he was in no need of vaccination as he had ‘protection from an earlier infection’? I appreciate his lawyers would have said this, but wasn’t it simply that he didn’t want the injection full stop, and wouldn’t have had it regardless of any prior infections? The anaesthetist who spoke out at Javid’s visit said the same thing – he didn’t want the vaccine because he’d had a prior infection (lucky for him!). Was that really the reason, or did he just not wish to be vaccinated? Surely that’s good enough? People who are speaking out in this way aren’t really speaking out for free choice without coercion. They’re not helping us. If at any stage ‘prior infection’ IS used as an ‘exemption’ from any coerced/forced vaccination, what about the majority of decliners who haven’t had any prior infection?!
I’m not sure why you think that Djokovic (or anyone else) has an obligation to speak on behalf of anyone but himself. I don’t want the vax because I don’t trust the snakes who are telling me I should get it. I haven’t had (so far as I know) any previous type of Wu-flu, so probably don’t have any immunity not conferred by previous brushes with the commoner coronavirus types. If and when they establish that there are no long-term downsides to the shots, I will be more amenable to the idea of vaccination, but – as with annual flu jabs – I won’t feel obliged to take them when offered.
What other vax-hesitant folk think and feel is their own business.
I don’t think Djojovic (or anyone else) has an ‘obligation’ to speak on behalf of anyone but himself, so I’m not sure why you think I do. I made the point that it was probably his lawyers anyway. I didn’t say he had an ‘obligation’. I did comment that, whoever said that it was because he had a prior infection is not helping those who haven’t. However, MORALLY, it would be good if people in the public eye who had declined the injection simply because they did not want the injection would say so, ie be truthful, rather than claiming immunity due to a ‘prior infection’, which is a nice get-out for those not wanting to be described as ‘selfish’, ‘anti-vaxers’ etc, yawn. In fact, I think Djokovic HAD been truthful, but his lawyers have muddied the waters. Hope that’s clear.
I’m mystified why anyone is down voting your rational & reasoned comment.
‘If and when they establish that there are no long-term downsides to the shots, I will be more amenable to the idea of vaccination’
1) Are you unaware of the massive number of short term adverse events following these jabs?
2) Why would you want a jab for the original wu flu strain when that strain is already extinct. Omicron is all the rage now and the original vax does stuff all to address omicron.
3) By the time any reasonable period has passed to ascertain the safety of any of their ‘warp speed’ jabs the virus has long since mutated and the jab is no longer relevant.
Blimey, I’ve no idea if I have previous infection. I’m assuming I have, but that is more or less a guess.
Quite frankly it hasn’t been very different for me these past two years – I have had a cold or simmilar from time to time, same as usual.
Look, if I say the moon is the sun, it’s the fucking sun, ok?
my qualifications? Professor of Astronomy. Or is it Astrology? It doesn’t matter. I am an expert, so shut up!
While our case is rational, we have the right to believe and act as if the sun is the moon, too.
Or…
Latest SIREN study, Pg 28:
“The effectiveness against omicron being unvaccinated but with a previous sars-cov2 infection is 44% whereas the effectiveness of having two jabs is lower at 32%”
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1046853/technical-briefing-34-14-january-2022.pdf
Don’t ask me to define “effectiveness” thou
A way of quantifying immune harm from being jabbed.so 28% harm to immune function.
Anyone who lives in the real world can see with their own two eyes that the jabs don’t stop people getting infected with this latest cold going around (call it Omicron, if you like).
For the purposes of “protecting others” from infection therefore, jabs don’t do anything. I see that every single day and so does everyone.
We need to move on to what the jabs are really for!
They did nothing to Delta as well.
I unjabbed got it and recovered in 3 days.
My jabbed acquaintances got it and recovered in 3 days.
The prophylactic was the same, lemsip.
The jabs and Omicron…
There is a growing school of thought that the spread of Omicron should be encouraged because it will develop “community” immunity [can’t be called “herd” for some reason] enabling the UK as a country to live with covid.
I read today that the jab companies were “tweaking” their jabs to deal with Omicron. Have to say, that caused me significant concern. If you are “tweaking” your jabs, to deal with a variant, what testing are you doing over a sufficiently significant period of time, to justify both safety and efficacy grounds, before going on to make batches which can be used to vaccinate large numbers of people??? Short answer, very little.
My own brush with Omicron confirms what I have always thought to be the case, and was the same with the delta variant, that I have had covid in the very early stages and that I have natural immunity. I encountered it last week – was a tad ropey for 24 hours, maximum, if that, and then fully back to normal.
I agree, bodily autonomy is paramount – if you lose it here for these jabs, then in what other cases will you also lose it?
Therefore you should not have to use having Natural Immunity as a justification for not being jabbed. BUT, and it is a big but, Natural immunity should be given equal if not higher prominence than jabs, and should not be dependent on the production of a very dodgy PCR test result which the CDC now discredits.
If the unjabbed have to produce some kind of ‘status’ to prove we are not a health risk [sigh, but I am fed up with being shut out of life] then a test which proves we have it surely cannot be beyond the bounds of possibility some almost 2 years down the line. Where are all the brainiac inventors?
Just had an email from a contact in Germany; she said that there appears to be some reluctance in Germany to have the jab ( incl. booster) thereby preventing “Herd Immunity” – her words. Seems as if the German propaganda machine is pumping out that jabs over certain % = societal immunity….no mention of the advantage that Omicron can confer as a very mild version. But then again, the French are awash with it so they will be abandoning jabs soon as “herd Immunity” will have been attained….maybe.
Coordinated or what…
Oxford has developed a T cell antibody test but I will be damned if I can get one (accuracy over 90%?) Called T spot covid test. Harley clinic doing them for wait for it, £129. I have written to the company that makes the tests, but they do not reply. Just looking for a provider locally. Why is it so hard to get one of these tests? Anyone know? And why the heck isn’t the nhs and every other health authority looking for T cell immunity????? Because then you wouldn’t need the guess what. Let’s put it this way, when someone has positive titers for let’s say, measles. We do not give them a measles vaccine, ever.
Wow, it was £199 the last time I looked. Special discount as not enough people prepared to pay £199? I might have got one but had no idea if the ‘authorities’ would accept the result or for how long. There was a company in Cardiff also working on T Cell testing but they discontinued its development. I’d emailed both them and the Oxford company
Robert Malone who originally worked on developing mrna jabs has stated that if he were developing an actual vaccine against Covid, the formula he would use would be as close to Omicron as he could get it. It’s a natural vaccine and it’s FREE. What’s not to like?
Virus mutations are like storms: they always sound far more dramatic if they’re given a name. The practice of naming storms began just a few years ago – until then there was just a ‘storm’ on the way (apart from hurricanes etc., obv.), just as now you don’t get ‘a bit of a cold’ any more, but need to go through the entire Greek alphabet.
This man is irrelevant. Since when did we perpetually monitor politicised graphs in order to make personal health decisions nobody has the right to interfere with?
Mosley? Yes, I see now
Relative of Oswald?
Bingo! Just add a ‘tache.
That newspaper. I wrote a comment there after they called Djokovic an anti-vaxxer.
I reminder readers that he was removed from Ausralia not becase of is alleged belives but becacse we had lied on his visa application. If he had not done that there would never have been a gotcha.
That comment was got published because it goes against their narrative.
Mention of visas, did anyone notice the story about the tourist from Lancastan who flew to New York, travelled to Texas, acquired a gun, held four people hostage in a synagogue, demanded the release of a notorious female muslin prisoner, and on refusing to surrender was dispatched to paradise?
The cops say he had no anti Jewish motives. His brother says he was mentally ill, English cops have detained two “teenagers”
One can not be too careful about the motives of tourists and tennis players.
Stop patronising the Mail – it is the Enemy!
I used to enjoy watching Michael Moseley’s programmes, since he tended to seek out and present the latest findings on how to stay fit and well while expending the least effort.
Since I’m doing my bit to defund the BBC, I haven’t seen any of his output for some years now, but I was disappointed to learn that he’d waded in with this latest sally.
Either he has become lazy, or he’s taken the Pharma shilling; neither possibility being very heartening.
Another ‘hero’ bites the dust.
Medically qualified but no longer registered. That puts him on the same ‘expert’ level as Graham Garden, Harry Hill and Liam Fox MP.
I completely agree. I always enjoyed his many programmes and even have one or 2 of his books on diet and intermittent fasting somewhere ( 5:2 Diet is one ). I used to really enjoy Trust Me I’m A Doctor back in the day. Unfortunately he’s another well-regarded household name that I used to respect who’s fallen dramatically off his pedestal. I’m actually disgusted by his stance on natural immunity vs these pseudo-vaccines, as he’s proven incapable of following the science, instead he’s just toeing the party line. Trust Me I’m A Doctor just seems a ridiculous mockery now of what this man once stood for, and to trust him would now be the last thing I’d do. Very disappointing. He just comes off as a shill now I’m afraid.
It’s amazing how people in the public domain who we previously respected can turn out to complete burks. Richard Littlejohn is another of this breed. Perhaps it’s their connection to the
MailFail.Joe Rogan with Kendrick vs Mosley…..would be very interesting……
‘Perhaps the Mail will now allow a better informed (and even registered and practising) medic to write a more accurate piece so as to avoid its readers remaining misinformed?’
You are joking. The Daily Mail continue to bash the vaccine free at every opportunity with regular articles accusing them of being no better than pond life. Even their sports pages slam the unvaccinated.
I’ll just call him Oswald.
Sorry but I just can’t believe you could cherry pick to that extreme and be doing it by accident. Comparing vaccine efficacy at 14 days to natural immunity months later is just so obviously stupid.
Great minds, Tee; below see…
Ha yes, I caught that too late.
CRETINOUS disingenuous fuck! I wont point to the 60+peer reviewed studies indicating far superior protection to the bio-weapon from Naturally aquired infection. I wont point to the fact that the lying bastard dosn’t mention innate immunity, t cells or b cells. I wont point to the fact that mankind has managed to survive for millennia by gaining naturally aquired immunity to a myriad of viruses and god knows what without the coerced acceptance of an experimental cytotixin. He’s not practiced medicine for…what was it, 37 year’s? He’s obviously forgotton the medical school lecture’s on virology and the miracle that is the bodies immune system, or is he being purposely disingenuous? Is he another, like Hilarious-Jones, funded by dark actors with nefarious intentions? But as he knows and many crtical thought desperados know… it’s not about a jab, or a virus, or a perceived/created biological threat, ultimately it’s about total control and subjugation of the “useless eaters”….
I suggest people look at the latest from “Swiss Policy Research” on the global pandemic response, a concise go too reference. Don’t forget, this all starts in 1973 with the “Club Of Rome’s, Limit’s to Growth”
The climate change lie and the Covid lie, two sides of the same CBDC coin!
Total control of the global populace, neo-feudalism is the future unless the many wake up in very short order!
This man’s a Doctor and as this missive shows personifies precisely how much your average GP/Doctor actually knows about even basic immunology/virology/epidemiology.
They are taught practically nothing about how the immune system actually works but instead are inculcated about the miracle of modern medicine/pharmaceuticals.
It was, though heartening to read the best rated comments in the M***.
He was absolutely slaughtered – and rightly so.
By God, these cretins shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a public forum lest they influence the sheep.
Two bloody years too late though…
Well said, totally agree about their willingness to be persuaded by the Pharmaceutical Cabal….follow the money as one “Deep Throat” once said.
Even having the ‘debate’ is infantile. These Pharma products are not fit for purpose: 1. They are illegal: fall under ARR efficacy of 50% (even RRR), which is legal min. for CDC to release an experimental drug. 2. Their experimemtal status prevents known safe treatments for this now mild virus 3. They have a growing record of adverse events that outdoes all products legally available. So … errr … natural immunity (head scratch)
All cause mortality was lower in the placebo group.
The jabs should be abandoned.
Yes. Twenty-one deaths in the drug group against 17 in the placebo group during the Pfizer trials.
The only stat anyone needs. Cuts through everything.
I wonder if there should be a time limit to putting Dr in front of your name. It would appear that its effectiveness declines after a period of time.
I had a room mate who was a doctor. If I remember correctly, he told me in Britain you get your Dr by ticking enough boxes correctly on a multiple choice questionnaire about general health questions.
In Germany you have to write a dissertation, on an original topic, with a certain word count which gets reviewed by qualified people, what is called a PhD here.
And everyone in Germany who wants to work in medicine needs to do it, in Britain you do not need to be a doctor to practice medicine.
But that still does not prevent SARS COV2 bollocks being spouted in Deutschland by one’s PhD equivalent awarded Arzt….very evidently.
I don’t think there is once one has successfully completed a PhD course in education. It can even go on your gravestone.
From the low level of comment and analysis coming out of TV and newspaper “doctors”, who often seem to be shills for Big Pharma, one might think that their medical qualifications were obtained by post, on payment of a few pounds or dollars, as a correspondence course.
One of the many infuriating things about all this is that, apart from the false and faulty analyses propounded by the likes of Mosley, there is absolutely no effort from the qualified medical establishment to answer concerns about, for example, ADE.
I don’t believe that all the various people who have pointed out the dangers and deficiencies, either existing or potential, in the “vaccines” are lunatics or conspiracy theorists, and the total reliance on the State-approved mouthpieces to come out with bald statements along the lines of “it’s perfectly safe; don’t worry your little heads” is enough to turn on the warning lights.
Apparently he is a good chum of H Jones, Med Dr……..
On 6th March 2021 Michael Mosley wrote an article for BBC Science Focus entitled: “Why the coronavirus vaccine will save your 2021″………
Oh you are 4 times more likely to end up in hospital without being vaccinated?
So instead of a 0.05% chance of being hospitalised, it’s 0.2%? Well, let’s lock it down.
Anybody navigating the world on such risk assessments needs their head examined
Rigged graphs and stats and ‘cancelled’ opponents have been the ‘stock in trade’ of the scammers!
But 3 times more likely to have heart side effects jabbed than unjabbed.
Which rasied all cause mortality above the placebo during the trial.
Now this should be enough to cause the jabs to be withdrawn, but it was covered up, which makes things even scarier.
Excellent stuff – exactly the through fisking that the sort of propaganda bilge written by Mosley and put out by the Daily Mail really calls for.
“Dr. Mosley points out that protection from vaccination plus previous infection is superior to that from previous infection alone. This appears correct; however, as can be seen in the chart above, the difference is relatively small and almost all the protection comes from the previous infection rather than the vaccine. The difference will also likely diminish over time without frequent boosters.”
I believe there’s also evidence that prior infection increases the risk of an adverse response to the “vaccines”.
Indeed. My MP recovered reasonably well from Covid, but weeks later he got the jab and was away from his work ill for several weeks. He told me he’d known that the jab’s side effects were likely to be more severe having already had the virus, but he had it anyway. I said it served him right, it was self-inflicted. Furthermore, he’d probably undermined his naturally-acquired immunity. He always replies to my emails – but remained silent on this occasion.
Thankfully this man is no longer practising medicine. It is unbelievable that a qualified medical practitioner (albeit retired) can spout such bilge.
He has obviously not read about the very poor quality testing phase, the unblinding of that phase and the subsequent damage the jabs cause.
He is just a mouthpiece for the DM and the BBc – shame on him.
We still know remarkably little about these jabs, but what we do know is that they don’t stop you getting it; don’t stop you passing it on; don’t prevent you being hospitalised for it; and don’t prevent you dying of it. We have also found out, quite unequivocally, that the jabs cannot protect others, only you, and only for an extremely short time, the first two or three weeks of which actually put you at higher risk of catching it. We also know that the jabs come with some pretty nasty significant risks of their own.
We know all this; they know we know all this; and we know they know we know all this. Which makes Moselely either a complete plank, or bought and paid for.
and jabs raise your risks of testing positive for it.
The battle over natural immunity is going to hugely ratchet up over the coming months as omicron spreads so widely that virtually everyone has natural immunity. This widespread immunity poses a huge threat to mandatory vaccinations, and should be a major part of any judicial review of the mandatory vaccinations for health service workers (where is that judicial review by the way?).
So natural immunity will need to be attacked. This means it’s exactly the thing that everyone opposed to mandatory vaccinations should be focused on- because our enemies definitely will be
Dr. Mosley’s article is a classic example of only presenting the findings and data that back up one’s point of view, rather than looking at all the evidence in the round.
And Will always presents all the evidence in the round?
He does a much better job of it than most of the panickers.
But more to the point,and the issue you collaborating apologist types constantly get wrong, is that this is not remotely a level playing field.
There’s a mainstream propaganda agenda that is massively funded and pushed by virtually all the major political, social and economic forces, based largely on exaggerations, distortions and outright lies as well as punishment and censorship of dissenting opinions and people. And there are the dissenting views that question the Official Truth.
That massively uneven playing field needs to be taken into account constantly, otherwise posturing about past mistakes or potential weaknesses in the dissenting side becomes bullying, and mere enabling of the Official Truth dogma. That’s not to say dissenting views should not be questioned vigorously, of course, but they should not be judged as harshly as mainstream positions. The difference in resources must be taken into account, as well as the fact that usually the Official Truth dogma is already massively represented all around us.
When responding to Official Truth propaganda, it is often sufficient just to present the truths and awkward questions that the propagandists, like Mosley and the DM, have left out.
Hic Rhodos, hic salta. Please provide a specific example of him being guilty of what your rethorical question implies.
Pot calling the kettle black from the chief “CherryPicker”….and as RW asks below, please provide chapter and verse for those who like to see evidence….are you still working on that, 22 hours later?
There is a shift in logic for getting vaccinated. Its to protect those that can’t get vaccinated because of prior condition. So part of the unvaxed are now being victimised on behalf of another element of the unvaxed. With very very few exceptions, those that can’t get vaxed have prior conditions because of lifestyle choices.
Except that getting vaccinated doesn’t protect anyone else, whether they’re vaccinated (through choice or coercion) or unvaccinated (through choice or medical issues).
So this latest attempt is meaningless.
Yes indeed, The logic is of course flawed.
Some might say Mosley (wonder if there are links?) is a Government shill.
I can but quote the government:- and RadioTimes
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/inside-porton-down-documentary
“Dr Michael Mosley investigates Britain’s most secretive and controversial military research base, Porton Down, in a programme originally shown on its 100th anniversary in 2016. He learns about chemical and biological weapons old and new, reveals the truth about animal and human testing”…(*)
“To help mark the 100th anniversary of defence operations at Porton Down, the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (Dstl) gave a BBC team unprecedented access to produce a behind the scenes documentary, Inside Porton Down”…..”Dstl seeks to be open about the type of work that we do at Porton Down and at our other sites across the UK. However, for obvious reasons of national security there are some aspects of our work that must remain secret” (*)
(*)bats & pangolins?
if you wish to see it, https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07hx40t/ad/inside-porton-down-britains-secret-weapons-research-facility bit old, 2017…but maybe it’s on YouTub?
Initial reaction – this is ignorance of the highest order and Mosley (certainly not worthy of the description ‘Dr’) is clearly stuck knowledge wise at the same place as when he left medical school.
Certainly the man is unaware of CPD (Continuous Professional Development) and obviously ‘research’ is something that only those barmy boffins at ICL can undertake.
The man’s a sold out idiot.
Wasting valuable breath on lies. The whole covid narrative has been the emperors new clothes from the start, in fact several moral tales, the boy who cried wolf, emperors new clothes, king Canute approach to stopping the fictional virus, supported by dihydrogen monoxide science, then the pied piper if you don’t have the jab. There are no clothes, there is no virus so there is nothing that flows from that, no variants, no vaccine, no immunity, no suppressed treatments, ivermectin etc, it is all just one big but frightening fairy story. Stick to there is no covid.
But what about Long Covid – kids can get it so they need to be jabbed too. And Covid Toe. You have no heart.
Absolutely sick to my back teeth over this ridiculous debate. Which is better, a natural immune response to the entire virus, honed over a couple of hundred thousand years, or one that’s triggered by Pharma artificially attempting to generate one (using new tech) by forcing peoples own body cells to create a single part of the virus – the spike protein? The discussion is absolutely ridiculous. Ignoring ‘science’, which is no longer actual science, you only have to open your bloody eyes to see that the vaccinated are getting infected, and being ill, at bizarrely high rates… hmmm, almost like the shot has screwed their immune system. When this is all over, these idiots need to be rounded up and shipped off to some remote island where they can happily inject themselves with as much pharma crap as they want.
By all accounts the cationic lipid nano particle delivery system for the mRNA does serious damage to mitochondrial DNA and to cellular DNA and on its own may account for damage unique to the vaccine and not seen from the viral infection.
Open AccessArticle SARS–CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair and Inhibits V(D)J Recombination In Vitro
So Mr Not-a-doctor is promoting repeated not-a-vaccine(s) as being better than millions of year’s developing immune system. Keep making your “informative” BBC programs which I can no longer stomach!
Billions maybe, certainly hundreds of millions based on the understanding of when ‘not just a vitamin’ D was first synthesised in Eucaryotes .
Just because somebody is a Doctor of Medicine doesn’t mean they have a clue about how to interpret scientific reports, design scientific studies or interpret statistics.
Particularly not when they are really journalists who work for the BBC.
Let me be cheeky and edit:
Just because somebody is a Doctor of Medicine doesn’t mean they have a clue.
“…as it’s evident that the vaccinated can and do frequently contract and transmit the virus, seemingly more than the previously infected. So on that argument, why should vaccination status not equally be deemed inadmissible as evidence of being safe?”
Exactly!
“one of the main reasons for getting vaccinated, as far as I’m concerned, is that by doing so you’re protecting others.”
Why should I as a fit and healthy 66 year old risk “vaccine” injuries or death to protect someone with an unhealthy lifestyle, obese and self-inflicted health problems?
They are the ones who should self-isolate and are a burden on the NHS.
And the quoted sentence is, essentially, a lie, isn’t it? The product on offer does not actually prevent infection, nor reduce the risk of potentially infecting others. It’s just a prophylactic, mitigation drug, being marketed as a “vaccine”, by the look of it.
Novak Djokovic’s French Open in doubt after sports minister U-turns on vaccine passesFrom the Telegraph. This is not going to end well, the Fing passports are here whether we like it or not.
French
openclosed because of medical apartheid.In Europe and the United States very serious moves are being made by very dedicated and well qualified people to bring the perpetrators behind the COVID-19 fake and death dealing vaccines to justice. Dr Reiner Fuellmich is just one of these people.
These people are not just going after Big Pharma and Fauci, Gates, at el. They are also going after politicians, media companies and journalists – they are gunning for everyone that aided, abetted, promoted or profited from the death vaccines.
At the Nuremberg trials, a legal method was introduced along the lines of joint criminal enterprise liability, where all people who assisted in any way the crimes to be carried out, could be charged with those crimes – technically, this meant that train drivers and level crossing gate operators could be charged for taking victims to the concentration camps. In the US they used similar type laws to round up and bring to justice various high-ranking and low-ranking members and random associates of mafia organisations.
This is the legal method Dr Reiner Fuellmich and his associates are using. Many people in the German and US intelligence and police communities are cooperating with and eagerly assisting in the investigating and prosecution of the fake vaccine perpetrators and associates.
Very long prison sentences (if not death sentences) await the main players. The aiders and abetters, i.e., politicians, media companies and big tech operators will be gone after. Big pharmaceutical companies will be broken up because they simply will not be able to pay the billions in compensation due to the families of the dead and to those suffering with life shortening adverse effects.
The Nuremberg principles:
We’ve all noted the sudden backtracking that governments, politicians and the MSM have been doing in the last week or so. The MSM has consistently hid revelations made by Dr Reiner Fuellmich and associates about the death dealing fake vaccines. The revelations simply became too numerous and the deaths and injuries too widespread for the trash MSM’s hiding of them to make any difference.
As per Nuremberg Principle I, international crimes against humanity have been committed. Cretinous scuzbags like Dr. Michael Mosley and criminal journalists like Richard Littlejohn in the Daily Mail – along with its criminal editor – have now gone truly international.
They are cosy with the British government, but Westminster and its population of sycophant politicians simply might not be able to protect them. As for the backtracking and U-turns we’ve noticed, the basta*ds are now trying to cover their asses.
What they have done is, at the very least, on a par with the genocidal charges tried at Nuremberg. This simply cannot be walked away from.
I have a lot of respect for your postings FW and I hope you are correct.
For me the stumbling blocks are the courts and the judiciary. In this country for sure they appear bought:
the judge refusing to force the ONS to release deaths of juveniles figures, the truly bizarre and corrupt Colston four judgement.
I hope I am wrong.
To paraphrase Reiner Fuellmich: Justice will not initially be set in motion through the judiciary – as you’ve said, they’ve taken the Cabal’s shilling. It will have to be the people, with guidance from people like Fuellmich and Robert Kennedy, that set the wheels in motion.
That’s why sites like this one are so very important. Every single person that sees the truth of the plandemic and the murderous lies that have been told to promote it, is one more person against the perpetrators.
It will be a scared and cleaned-up judiciary that will then sentence the perpetrators and apply compensation to the victims.
If you want to see an example of the sheer arrogance, puerility and shameless stupidity of what Reiner Fuellmich and Robert F. Kennedy (and the rest of us) are up against, take a quick look at this “fact check” that a person called Robert Turner did on Reiner Fuellmich.
Here’s a verbatim quote that sets the scene for Turner’s fact checking ability:
You could not make it up. Turner is telling his readers he’s “fact checking” Reiner Fuellmich and going to prove him wrong. But, yet Turner can’t relate the evidence he claims to have that proves Fuellmich to be fraudulent, instead, he has to tell his readers to go and check Fuellmich’s videos.
How thick and dumb can you get? Dumbass Turner would never have got anywhere without being paid by the Cabal to so their dirty work.
Lots of people who took the 1st and 2nd shots of the gene serums are now waking up. They’ve suffered and seen friends suffer. The tide may be turning. With any luck.
And lying dumb trash like Robert Turner are having their names added to ever growing lists. We reap what we sow.
HP: Stop Press; shock horror, Judges shown to make political judgments and relegate the Law to last place in 2022…..precedent set in 11-0, never before seen, judgment relating to Prorogation case……Lead Judge a well known Remainer…..just like the other 10.
I hope you are wrong, but fear you are dead right.
keep on dreaming
Moseley claims that several injections improve your immune response. I am not *up to date with vaccines we give to children, I believe some require 2 doses, but not 3 doses within 6 months! And they have been tested for years and proven to be relatively “safe”.
Why is he referred to as “Dr” Mosley? He’s not registered as a medical doctor. He presumably doesn’t hold a doctoral degree.
He is Doctator Mosley.
It’s a Reich thing.
The Mail is “only obeying orders” – it is a propaganda sheet – no longer a newspaper.
Twitter: Call to 111 between a concerned individual citing adverse vaccine reactions brings advice from Doctor – ‘stop taking the vaccines – they are going to be withdrawn owing to newly revealed (!) safety concerns. ‘Do not take any more’!
Just more “Fake News”awaiting Twitter take-down?
I’m going to print that picture & use it as an archery target.
“…better informed (and even registered and practising) medic”
Better informed, yes.
Why do they have to be a registered and practising medic?
In my (albeit limited) experience, a lot of medics base their opinions on personal experience, not data.
Wait what? he thinks the antibody levels don’t indicate a degree of immunity? How come then that they approved the vaccines for children on the basis of them eliciting antibodies? Because they sure as heck don’t get sick .
Dr. Vladimir Zelenko said anyone that willfully vilified and obstructed access to hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin in the prevention and treatment of Covid-19 is guilty of first degree capital murder, genocide, and crimes against humanity. They are trying to jab as many people as possible so that their great reset aka depopulation plan work. I believe in God & Jesus. If I get sick I will take my Ivermectin that I stashed just in case and leave rest to God. If you want to get Ivermectin you can visit https://ivmpharmacy.com
Dr Mosley is a successful showman rather than a medic. He has, for example, profited from the excellent and extensive work of Prof Roy Taylor, with very little input of his own. Very good at presenting TV programmes but hardly an authority on anything.
Sad. There goes the respect I once had for Mosley. Feet of clay, more concerned about his finances and career, it seems, than balanced common sense. All that bluff on his programs about investigating medical facts.
He’s obviously forgotten his Hippocratic Oath
I am so glad you called this out. I’m not a doctor virologist or any other sort of ‘scientist’ but I can tell BS when I read it.
Totally illogical rubbish.
The big mistake this doctor is making is assuming that a vaccine that boosts your antibodies for a specific disease provides immunity. Respiratory diseases like covid mostly stimulates the memory T cell immunity which provides immunity for several years. I believe it was this discovery or should I say confirmation what immunologists already knew that imperial college London was studying. The study looked into why in some households everyone gets covid while in other households only one person got covid. In my household my wife got covid and even though I never wore PPE I sat and hugged my wife for ten days and I got nothing. Since then I’ve attended several super spreader events and again nothing. I never ware a mask as I am asthmatic and still nothing compared to my vaccinated colleagues who are getting infected all the time. The author of the imperial study claimed that because one in five colds is a corona virus this provides cross immunity to covid.
The researchers of this study hope to use this research to develop a universal vaccine against covid and it’s variants that will last several years unlike the present vaccines which only last a few months.
asthmatic?
taking budesonide perhaps?
I’ve not used my inhaler in 16 months,the last time I used it was when we began using PPE in the nhs. I’ve quite mild asthma so rarely use my inhaler but when we started wearing masks I had several attacks. Since then I’ve taken vitamin D every day and no more attacks. I’ve looked up vitamin D and asthma since and it seems to help the illness. Last summer while everyone was saying this was the worst year for hayfever I had no problem at all when normally I suffer badly with hayfever. But I believe when it comes to covid I believe most of us have natural immunity due to cross immunity from corona viruses.
A lack of Vitamin D causes many illnesses which can be easily treated by taking it every day. I take 2000 iu daily and haven’t had so much as a sniffle in 2 years.
Likewise I am taking 25ug which I believe is around 1000iu every day. I don’t want to take more because I believe if you take too much you absorb more calcium into your arteries. I know this can be remedied by taking vitamin K but are reluctant to take any more vitamins if it’s not necessary. At the moment my whole family is into they third bout of colds and me not even a sniffle. To me vitamin D is the only thing I am doing different and maybe why when it comes to covid nothing. In contrast to my vaccinated colleagues who are all catching covid I seem to have avoided it which could be due to cross immunity from previous colds or vitamin D.
We have all these so-called fact checkers and censorship and yet a guy like this can have his nonsense published simply because it follows The Narrative(tm). Whether deliberately or not he is lying or is very Ill-informed.
We’ve previously seen
DrMichael Mosley as one of the good guys and trustworthy. No longer! I hope this article gets back to him and he has an opportunity to respond, and reflect.Like most people I was quite fond of Dr Mosley with his TV prorams. But since Christmas and his announcement that he wouldn’t be inviting unvaccinated people my fondness for him went down like a lead balloon. I am no vaccine expert but know enough that these vaccines only stimulate antibodies while most respiratory illnesses use T cell memory cells to defeat infections. In fact most people who do get covid won’t produce antibodies because they only created when the disease is severe. The antibodies you get from vaccination or covid will only last a few months and is why you shouldn’t vaccinate soon after infection and why the vaccines only last a few months. Natural immunity from T cell memory cells provides you with long term immunity so making it far better than immunity from vaccination. Maybe this doctor doesn’t understand the difference between vaccines and natural immunity but if he doesn’t he shouldn’t claim he does.
I put my trust in my immune system, my common sense and the fact I’ve done the research and above all I know myself better than anyone else, particularly those who are deemed experts by the government and their puppet masters.
In his whole piece, Mosley seems to have forgotten that a vaccine is supposed to stimulate the immune system, not replace it. By definition therefore, the vaccine is not as effective as antibodies. The only reason for vaccines is to kick the immune system into a state of preparedness. Our immune system *IS* the thing. As such, the mRNA treatments are not vaccines, as they don’t provide an inert sample of the virus to allow our immune systems to prepare.
“worked as a BBC journalist for the past 37 years “
why read more?
Isn’t he a weight loss “expert”. Yes, just the person I would take my medical advice from.
The other explanation to consider as to why natural immunity in response to infection is better than vaccination is that unlike live attenuated vaccines, the mRNA-based Covid vaccines include only a limited number of specific antigens and epitopes…all in the surface Spike protein, while natural infection exposes the immune system to antigens from the whole virus (internal and external) and so is likely to provide a broader protection against variants. During an infection, the body is also continually exposed to virus particles and antigens at much higher levels and for a longer duration compared to a single shot of vaccine, most of which is likely cleared from the body quite rapidly.
No mention by Mosley of of Walensky’s ‘the vaccines don’t stop transmission’ – 10-Jan-22, widely canvassed now as an official termination of vaccine-mandate validity. Also no mention of the gathering evidence that, according to Robert Malone (see his Joe-Rogan podcast), prior infection heightens the propensity to vaccine injury, such as myocarditis, perhaps by a factor of 4 or 5.
Hopefully we can all maintain a healthy immunity to people like Mr Mosley. He has been incubated far too long at the Bullshit Broadcasting Corporation.
I copied this from a previous post, can’t remember who originally posted it but it’s a valuable source of information:
History is littered with examples of the atrocities that ensue when the medical profession abandon their traditional principles and judgement in favour of unquestioning subservience to governmental diktats – medical involvement in torture, forced sterilisation and human experimentation being examples.
The genetic engineering based therapies now being deployed by the medical profession as ‘covid vaccines’ have not undergone the full review process required for full regulatory approval. In fact, all the Covid 19 injections are approved for emergency use only and are still, supposedly, in Stage 3 trials. However, it was reported in the BMJ (20/8/21) that these Stage 3 trials will never in fact be concluded because “There is no control group after Pfizer offered the product to placebo participants before the trials were completed”.
It was also reported by NPR (19/2/21) that Moderna had allowed part of its control group to be destroyed when 650 volunteers who took the experimental Moderna injections at a company called Johnson County Clinical Trials were unblinded, with the placebo group being offered, and given, the injections.
Moderna later announced that “as of April 13, all placebo participants have been offered the Moderna covid-19 vaccine and 98% of those have received the vaccine.” (BMJ 18/5/21) In other words, the whole trial is unblinded and the placebo group no longer exists.
Clinical trials that include a placebo group are the surest and most definitive way to gather information about vaccine safety and effectiveness, but that vital means of securing public safety data was deliberately terminated by the manufacturers. NPR reported that Dr. Carlos Fierro, who ran the Johnson County study, said that even without a placebo group, “I think over time we’ll get that data”.
What Fierro is saying is that in the absence of any mid to long term adverse event data, and with no control groups, the required safety data can only be acquired from long term public usage. So in reality, billions of people around the world are now effectively taking part in a, wholly dangerous, mass medical experiment without their knowledge and with no end date.
In essence, because the manufacturers have been granted zero liability for any harm caused, they have no need to conduct expensive clinical trials. They can just launch it onto the public and note the millions of deaths, disabilities and injuries caused by each different batch they are experimenting with.
Using billions of unsuspecting people as lab rats isn’t the only aspect of this injection program that is experimental. Other untried ‘firsts’ include:
1. First to use PEG (polyethylene glycol) in an injection
2. First injection of genetically modified polynucleotides in the general population
3. First to use mRNA technology against an infectious agent
4. First time Moderna has brought any product to market
5. First to be implemented publicly with nothing more than manufacturers own corrupted preliminary efficacy data.
6. First vaccine to make no clear claims about reducing infections, transmissibility, or deaths
7. First coronavirus vaccine ever attempted in humans
8. First to have a 100 times increase in adverse reaction reports.
9. First injected gene-based therapy.
10. First to enter into public usage with no clinical trials assessing the safety and efficacy of receiving random mixed combinations of injections from different manufacturers using radically different experimental technologies.
In spite of constant denials from wicked politicians, captured media and compromised medical professionals, it cannot reasonably be contested that these injections, and the injection program as a whole, are entirely experimental. This is evidence by analysis of the facts, and confirmed time and again by experts the world over. For example, Cody Meissner, a professor of paediatric infectious disease vaccines at Tufts University and member of the US FDA’s advisory committee told the BMJ “Remember that currently these vaccines are still considered experimental”. (BMJ 18/5/21)
The guiding principles of the Nuremberg Code serve as a landmark document on the medical ethics of experimental medical treatments. Article 1 states: “The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential.”Article 5 states: “No experiment should be conducted in which there is a priori reason to believe that death or disabling injury will result; except, perhaps, in those experiments in which the experimental physicians also serve as subjects”.