Democracy is very much not in action in Wales, where the Labour Government has rejected calls for another vote on the introduction of vaccine passport checks at nightclubs and other ‘large’ venues after a Tory MS (opposed to the plans) was unable to vote because of a Zoom error. Had his vote been counted, the scheme would not have been able to pass through the Senedd.
First Minister Mark Drakeford has dismissed concerns regarding liberty, describing vaccine passports as nothing other than a “simple measure which will help to keep people safe from coronavirus”. The Guardian has the story.
The Conservative member Gareth Davies was trying to vote remotely against the scheme but failed to connect to the debating chamber in Cardiff via Zoom, allowing the Labour-led Government to win the vote 28-27.
Representatives of clubs and bars are calling for the vote to be re-run but the Government said the new law, which will make holding a Covid pass compulsory for people to get into venues including nightclubs and major sporting events, would come into force.
The Welsh First Minister, Mark Drakeford, said the vote was an “extraordinary” moment, but added: “The way the vote is conducted is not for the government, that is for the parliament. It is members’ responsibilities to make sure they are in the chamber or on Zoom.”
Speaking to the BBC, he said: “What was really extraordinary was the fact that opposition parties were not prepared to support this simple measure which will help to keep people safe from coronavirus.”
The Welsh Government says the measure, due to come into force on Monday, is needed because of rising Covid rates, especially among young people. …
None of the opposition parties have said they feel the vote ought to be re-run.
Worth reading in full.
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If the Welsh electorate doesn’t at least complain loudly to Senedd members, then they can hardly complain later.
Computer say no. Um, awkay.
Well now I’m Uber Pissed Off as my unvaccinated eldest son is at Swansea Uni.
He is anti this vax but will no doubt be feeling the pressure as his peers all go clubbing but he can’t. I trust him to stick to his guns, however, as he’s a stand up kind of guy and he’s availed himself of the facts regarding these vaccines. He’s just started his course so the next 3 years maybe a bit quiet entertainment wise. Let’s hope illegal raves get the boost they so richly deserve.
My favourite all-purpose political quotation for the times (adapted, ironically, from Aneurin Bevan’s slaying of Eden over the Suez debacle) :
“If X believes what he is saying, then he is too stupid to be Y. But if he/she doesn’t believe what he is saying – then he is too dishonest to be Y.”
One hopes that real people are sane enough to strike it out, and enforce their Human Rights 1998 rights. Any organisation that tries it on could lose trade, quite easily. Invasion into personal health records by third parties, such as traders, should not be acceptable at all.
That photo is a very good example of a present day throwback to the early origins of mankind.
This is looking similar to the recent US election. The self righteous feel entitled to push through their ideology.
I feel sorry for people living in Wales and Scotland. They may as well go live in a communist country. England will be next.
So Drakeford confirms a result which would shame a real Democracy. So now, anytime there’s a close vote the Government is desperate to win, all they have to do is nobble Zoom for members of the Welsh Senned.
And if we ever get online voting for General Elections in the UK, you can bet the Establishment will do the same.
You don’t think the Tory hierarchy had a word in the M.Ps ear. Difficult to introduce vaccine passports in England if Welsh Conservatives voted them down in Wales. He was actually offered to vote by phone…nah probably just another conspiracy theory like so many these days. I mean good old Boris when did he lie to anyone???
He was refused when he asked to vote by ‘phone.
Wales has fallen
Wales died months ago.
Very clear that businesses are going to have to have their own vote, and have it by refusing to comply. Business is the engine that drives this country, they need to realise that and use their power. If businesses won’t pla along with these diktats there is nothing that governments can do, no feasible amount of government force can stop thousands of businesses if they all break diktats together. It is time for businesses to stop just talking and start fighting back, make government impotent.
yes. The problem we have is the govt is targeting big stakeholders such as the Premier League, Royal Opera House, Royal Albert Hall etc .Get them on board and doing the dirty work, and the job is half done.
I’ll be watching non covid passport football, and listening to restriction free music where I can.
cancelled my Sky sub and BBC licence fee too a couple of weeks ago. The BBC is beyond help.
Businesses just want to make money. They don’t care who their money is coming from. Most of their customers don’t care about the restrictions either. If it was any different, these policies would not have been introduced in the first place. The tyrants at work have all the relevant market research at their fingertips.
That’s precisely the point: Businesses are going to make more money if there’s less useless government red tape around customer handling. England is not Germany and the German model of forcing heavy-handed economic sanctions (the proper term for that) onto businesses not voluntarily denying access to unvaccinated people hasn’t been copied here.
The current crop of German politicians is pretty much just a bunch of US stooges who’ll stoop to any low their masters expect of them.
https://theexpose.uk/2021/10/06/uk-judge-orders-government-to-provide-evidence-in-court-that-justifies-covid-19-vaccination-of-children/
BTW, bracelets to indicate vaccination status now also handed out to staff and students in universities of Hannover, Germany.
are they yellow and worn on the arm?
P.S. how did they obtain others private medical info?
All the details of the Nazipapiere were on the BBC Wales website as a fait accompli weeks before the pseudovote.There was no way Dungford was going to accept a ‘no’ vote.
Seems likely the Tory tosser was in the bar & couldn’t be arsed to vote.
Iirc he was on the phone to the Speaker telling her about the faulty connection and she refused to count his vote by any other means. Someone posted a recording of the exchange on twitter yesterday.
Given Drakeford’s track record as a parent, I don’t think he’s in any position to tell the nation how to behave.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/21/labour-ministers-son-jailed-for-raping-woman-to-indulge-his-sexual-fantasies-7967140/
Wales is in quite good shape with respect to cases: We don’t really need these stinkin’ vaccine passports right now , but digital identities are absolutely inevitable, most people don’t know this, but digital identities have been a requirement in the global super computer communities for decades, they are about to hit prime time, and there is absolutely no way to avoid it, I know some of you guys would like to go back to how things were, but that is not an option now , digital ids have come too far now, they are an inevitability for everything from benefits, visas, internet access, vaccination, voting, even the mersey tunnel, you name it, it’ll have your digital id on it. Don’t blame me, it’s just the way it is in the 4th industrial revolution, anyway, Wales is in good shape:
“Wales is in quite good shape with respect to cases“
The fact that you think it matters a jot discredits you, even before your obvious trolling.
“I know some of you guys would like to go back to how things were, but that is not an option now ” Maybe it isn’t, but neither you nor the evil scum running this show will stop us from trying to get us back to how things were, as long as we live. Even if it doesn’t happen in our lifetime, there will be people who carry on the fight. Don’t blame me, that’s just the way it is with free-thinking humans.
whatever one thought of them, and their views, most people( including me) surely thought that the Greenham women were fighting a lost cause. But in fact the missiles were gone in well under a decade, and the base returned to common land , as they had campaigned for.
They are inspirational, especially those of them , and there were many, who really walked the walk for their beliefs.and they were really creative in the methods of non violent direct action. We can learn from them.
I’m not sure what the point of your post is.
Digital smidgital.
None of the things you mention couldn’t be done with a paper based system. And indeed has been done with a paper based system in past and current dictatorships.
The big difference between then and now is that a large chunk of our lives is spent online now, and this does open up avenues of control for the government.
And if we dig deeper, the biggest issue is that Western civilisation is in serious decline in pretty much any way you care to mention. I give it ten years before it no longer exists except in a few pockets here and there.
But we’ll be back.
“digital identities are absolutely inevitable”
A Remain vote was inevitable, and so was Hillary Clinton becoming President.
“absolutely inevitable,”
outing yourself as one of those types where the future is fixed, it’s just history that needs to change.
The future is not fixed, and your future is more than uncertain
‘Cases’? Absolutely meaningless.
A friend is one of these ‘cases’. Yesterday he was cutting his lawn for the last time, and today he is playing golf.
Tories too busy partying in Manchester to vote. Deliberate?
The only reason this nonsense persists is because 95% of the population have absolutely no critical thinking skills whatsoever. If they did they would see that they are rapidly loosing their liberty and prosperity for no good reason and tell the likes of Drakeford to do one. Instead, the population are mostly brain dead drones who lap up whatever nonsense the media and politicians spout and happily seem to go along with whatever ridiculous demands they make of them including locking themselves up for 18 months, sacrificing their livelihoods and children’s educations and letting themselves be injected with an experimental, potentially dangerous substance whose longterm affects are unknown. This is just on Covid, don’t get me started on climate change. The effects of the population’s stupidity are starting to become apparent with the energy crisis, fuel crisis, multiple shortages, businesses going bust and government spending and national debt unsustainable and out of control and yet still the moronic population will not wake up. God help us all!
You’re spot on. And most of the bloody brain-donors seem to be on FB, regularly spouting the utter bilge they’ve enthusiastically digested from their tellies and tabloids! It’s honestly like trying to engage with cult members, you’ve got no chance of any rationality or common sense being absorbed. No amount of data-backed debate makes a blind bit of difference.
Society accepted its slavery to the state in March 2020. Ever since then we’ve just done what our masters have told us. Wear a mask, do a test, stay at home, take a jab, take another jab, download this app. Whatever they tell us to do, we will do.
There are a few boisterous slaves around, but no actual rebellion. Just some disapproving murmuring.
Surely JR ‘able’?
If the Conservatives really wanted to oppose it, they’d use any tools at their disposal.
Watch them quietly shrug their shoulders and move on. Their bosses in Westminster want vaccinw passports after all.
Deleted.
Find an honest judge.
How ‘temporary’ do we think these vaccine passports are going to be?
As temporary as income tax.
Time we stopped paying that, if we are to e excluded from life in our own country we aren’t citizens any mroe, we are serfs, and we have no obligation of any kind to prop the state up.
The state does not need your tax. They can print money themselves. The only purpose of tax is suck back money in and to punish people. If you want to damage the state, you should withhold you labor. But of course, for that you will be punished as well. The state has you by the balls, as it always has had. And the simple reason is that it is the state holding a gun to your head, not vice versa.
Mark Drakeford
July: no plans for a vaccine passport, for ethical and equality reasons
October: it’s just a simple measure, what’s your problem?
This is standard Covidian: Whenever they want something, they describe it as simple, precautionary measure, be it something as hellishly intrusive as enforced face masking. That’s why I wrote that this guy obviously doesn’t decide what goes into his own press releases.
The magic phrase “keep people safe” (or a variant of it) is also very likely to make an appearance in these sort of “justification” announcements – it’s clearly a very politician-friendly type of phrase as it superficially sounds like they actually give a shit, while at the same time being largely meaningless.
I was just simplifying the wording a little.
I think you’re also misinterpreting this: It’s not designed to make politicians appear anyhow, it’s a little bit of mind programming for the public: Theses phrases get repeated all the time because the general public is supposed to remember/ memorize them unconsciously. The next time a thus trained mind encounters the stimulus vaccination passport, the brain is supposed to produce simple measure which will help to keep people safe from coronavirus
because of the learned association and that’s what people not much given to self reflection will then believe to be their own thoughts about it.
Of course, Welsh Labour actively engaging in Corona propaganda can’t surprise anyone: For the cosmopolitan elite against the people! could be regarded as the current Labour motto.
“keep people safe” well unruly cattle get culled.
Anybody still in Team Toby?
I suspect even Toby isn’t in Team Toby any more, in private at least.
This is not about health, people. Agenda 30 marches on.
A vaccine passport protects you from coronavirus, but 2 jabs and a booster or natural immunity doesn’t. Got it!
You can’t blame Labour (they don’t listen anyway, even if you do blame them) it was the fault of Gareth Davies, for being a fool.
I don’t know who Gareth Davies is, and I don’t care.
“You can’t blame Labour” Yes I can. I don’t care if they are listening or not, they are evil.
Big news from Australia – court declares mandatory vaccinations unlawful ….
Of course they do.
And in all other common law based jurisdictions, like the UK, too.
As do masks and vaccine passports.
The question is: (when) will someone take them to court here, find an uncorrupted judge and will the superior courts uphold his verdict or are they too corrupted anyway?
I don’t think that’s correct, sadly. This was one of the cases summarised in a blog I linked here the other day, which confirmed that Jennifer Kimber lost her case in a 2-1 majority decision on 27th Sept and was likely to appeal to the Federal court.
Covid legal proceedings in Australia
Not for one second do I believe in the “Zoom Error”. All a stunt to avoid a Tory voting against the very measures that we will be moving to in around 4-6 weeks. Scummy disinformation.
Precisely. All just a circus for the cameras.
Obviously democracy is dead.
So how exactly does it keep people safe you moron?
It keeps the evil scum running the show safe from their balloon bursting.