Prompted by the sentencing of Wayne Couzens for kidnapping, raping and murdering Sarah Everard in a case that has raised awareness about the level of confusion over the powers handed to the police by ’emergency’ coronavirus legislation, Scotland Yard has issued advice for those approached by an undercover officer. MailOnline has the story.
Scotland Yard said in a statement that it is “unusual for a single plain clothes police officer to engage with anyone in London”, although it can happen.
They said that an lone officer could be seeking to arrest you, but if they do then you should “expect to see other officers arrive shortly afterwards”.
As of yesterday the Metropolitan Police announced they would not deploy plain clothes officers on their own.
Deputy Commissioner Sir Stephen House said: “We will not operate plain clothes officers on their own. If we do use them, they will be in pairs.”
However he said there will be “occasions” where that is not possible – such as when a pair of officers are split up – and noted that off-duty officers [will] not [be] in uniform. …
You would expect a lone police officer who is arresting you to soon be joined by backup, although it is possible that this might not happen and you are still alone.
Scotland Yard said in this case that it was “entirely reasonable for you to seek further reassurance of that officer’s identity and intentions”.
The Met said it advises people to “ask some very searching questions of that officer”, including:
~ “Where are your colleagues?”
~ “Where have you come from?”
~ “Why are you here?”
~ “Exactly why are you stopping or talking to me?”
Former Scotland Yard Senior Officer Parm Sandhu told ITV’s Good Morning Britain that there were things people could do if they were concerned about an arrest.
She said that people should not get into the vehicle unless it’s a marked police vehicle and ask to see the radio, or ask the arresting officer to call their colleagues and make sure they are on duty. She added: “If you’re really concerned dial 999.”
Worth reading in full.
Stop Press: Peter Hitchens asks how does “such a person become a police officer and *remain[ed]* one” in the first place.
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Worried about calling 999?
Dial 999.
/Brazil.
I didn’t like the film but it seems to be slightly prophetic now.
And having established by close questioning that he might not be a policeman, you must politely but firmly order him to leave. Hmm…
If Sarah E had asked those 4 questions he would have given a correct or plausible answer. Covering their back perhaps
Yeah. I can see how that would go:
How does that help exactly? once he’s got the cuffs on, and you’re in the car…how do you get out? The point to act is when first approached. Run like hell and dial for help immediately.
Easy to say from the comfort of my kitchen. It’s drummed into people to be polite and respectful to the police, because everyone knows they can have a nasty tendency to get brutal if you assert your rights confidently. I would assume they’re overstepping the mark in this situation, and think about how I am going to get them for wrongful arrest and false imprisonment or whatever, so I would stay calm and polite to maximise my chances of hurting them in the courts and get a payout.
It would not occur to me that a policeman was about to murder me for kicks.
I still don’t hear anyone taking responsibility for one key issue though. Pre-wuflu this kidnapping would never have been able to take place under these circumstances because the intended victim would never have believed that they were under arrest for any crime.
It’s scandalous that any person walking alone could be convinced that they needed to be apprehended and I hold ministers primarily responsible for this.
She also may not have been walking home with a mask on if she had not been told that it was “safer” than public transport and keeping your wits about you. And there would’ve been more potential witnesses around had they not all been told to stay home too.
I am sure that such an awful deviant would’ve eventually carried out his plans another way but our politicians, not any virus, made it much easier for him with their ridiculous “rules”.
I said it before: The legislation set in place is allowing for this kind of police abuse to take place. It is giving a ridiculous amount of power to the state, and no one asked us anything about it. This proves that we are not living in a democracy at all. Government can give themselves any power they want.
A thousand upvotes
It is giving power over others to any self selecting small group that sows the seed of corruption.
Best to severely limit the scope by severely limiting that power in the first place.
Peelian principles prove their superiority yet again!
NB – not that I’m saying she didn’t have her wits about her, but not helped by the fact she was wearing a mask. Hence she was essentially already gagged, less likely to be recognised, more likely to be quiet/subdued and also have her peripheral vision obscured and senses dulled. (Or so I hear from others – masks impinge listening skills as well as spoken communication?)
Absolutely. The massive glaring elephant in the room and yet, so far as I can tell, not a single MSM media outlet has given this so much as a mention.
Yes, call 999 so they can tell you that they’re officers are always in the right and you should shut up and let them stomp on your face.
Ridiculous stuff as usual, but par for the Days of the Downing Street Basilisk. “Be your own policeman” joins the expanding list of DIY services, including “Diagnose Youself Doctoring”; the main disadvantage of the latter being the inability of the tyro self-doctor to obtain prescription medicines.
A true paradigm of the concepts I now feel obliged to adopt viz. “Trust nothing and nobody, believe nobody and nothing”. Sad and bad times.
I’ll do that once I’ve removed the pepper spray and pavement from my eyes, or it that how you know they are legit coppers?
Couzens was indeed a legit copper, not an impersonator
The police are in denial. We need root and branch reform but it won’t happen. It is even more unreformable than the sacred NHS.
I’m very concerned about Cressida Dick. Can I phone 999 to report her?
Do they have a monsters hotline?
Try 666.
“Peter Hitchens asks how “such a person become a police officer and *remain[ed]* one” in the first place.”
Because the police look after their own, regardless of how bent they are. Anyone who follows the Crimebodge youtube channel will know that the police’s first reaction to any allegations against an officer is to lie about it and close ranks, and if they can’t make the allegation go away in that manner the Police Complaints Commission is utterly under police control and operates to basically exonerate any policeman accused of misconduct, other than in the most egregious cases that even they can’t manage to whitewash away.
You are correct in every detail.
Freemasons look out for each other. That’s why the police are untouchable. That’s why Freemason judges protect the freemason politician’s policies, etc.
Yes, I seem to remember there was some concern about freemasons over the Hillsborogh shambles.
I have to wonder what planet Phitch inhabits, these days. Actually, I’ve thought that since he naively cashed in his sceptic chips for two shots in the arm, and a presumed return to normality that – surprise! – never came.
The Babylon turns over staff at quite a rate. The primary barriers to entry, beyond the obvious impediment of a criminal history, are poor sight, hearing, or some other medical condition that might interfere with the job. Probing an applicant’s psychology is conspicuous by its absence. So, failing to spot the odd catastrophic character failing is not as unusual as many might think.
It has been possible to become a police officer with a minor criminal record for some time, I believe. Ten or more years ago a report from HMIC stated that a very large proportion of the officers then serving were, in effect, almost functionally illiterate. It is very difficult to underrate the calibre of the modern police officer.
PS: The report actually stated that the educational standard of the average police officer, at that time, was lower than at any time since before the second world war.
I’ve looked for a link to it for some time but never been able to find one.
Exposing yourself at Macdonald’s is surely fine, as long as you’re wearing a face condom,
Ah, the other prophylactic that causes more problems than it solves. As demonstrated in Uganda, I seem to remember.
Depends where you’re wearing it.
Depends where you’re wearing it.
Ah, the N95 posing pouch.
A few years ago, Fetida Dick had a number of distinguished and perfectly innocent people harassed, insulted, slandered and persecuted in response to accusations from a crazed thug of a paedophile whose accusations the Dickhead swallowed hook, line, and sinker.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49048972
And here she still is, the foul harpy. Unbelievable.
She also had a sparky summarily executed by multiple gunshots to the face for the crime of being slightly olive skinned.
Her entire career has consisted of failing upwards, because she is politically correct.
That police assassination has forever made an impact on me. I just cannot imagine what that poor young man went through. It still sends shivers down my spine to think about it.
I recall my, then, father in law (a true pro-establishment person) also using the following excuse for the police’s actions: “Well, you can’t blame them. He had a rucksack which could have been carrying a bomb. They couldn’t take any chances”. Much against my nature, I gave him both barrels (pardon the expression) at hearing that.
What stupid tosser downvoted your comment I wonder? Extraordinary!
Dodderydude’s former father-in-law?
She hasn’t fallen; she’s been pushed.
One down vote? Cressida must read DS.
But I am sure he had attended all the right diversity courses.
I hear civil service has just finished celebrating pride/inclusivity/bollocks month. Right in time for Black celebration month.
I understand the two celebrations alternate on a monthly basis all year round.
Couzens will have had all his stickers to say he’s a good boy.
When’s white celebration month then?
I suppose they don’t bother with a red celebration month as most of them died off as a result of international travel restrictions. Or something. (I notice Australia’s trying something similar. I wonder what will happen if they ever properly start letting people in again…)
The dust jacket of the excellent expose “Wasting Police Time” quite correctly notes “This book will put you off calling the police more than anything except for calling the police.”
I work with coppers, I know coppers socially, but I would call them only as an absolute life-or-death last resort, and in that situation I’d want a lawyer to arrive before they did.
When I worked for the Police ‘complaints department’ many years ago, one senior officer said he was concerned that the ”young coppers seem to think they’re in ‘The Bill”’. And now those ”young coppers” are the senior officers.
It’s worth remembering that Wayne Couzens admitted his guilt on 8 June. The Police and the Home Office have therefore had almost 4 months to prepare for the negative press reaction when he was sentenced, yet the best that they can come up with is the sort of shallow, ill-thought out nonsense that we’ve heard today. Their response has been so inappropriate that it tells us that they really don’t care, and I’ve no doubt that, behind the scenes, they’re confident that the very next crisis will simply drive this story off the front pages.
I was once pulled out of a pub by Thames Valley Police in order to assert and record my identity. Some months later, I got a call ordering me to come to the police station in order for a formal interrogation. A few days before that, I got another call informing me that I was no longer considered to be a suspect. On each occasion except the last one, I’ve repeatedly asked to be told what I was actually being suspected of but never got a reply beyond a vague something sexual.
Whoever suggested these question doesn’t seem to be aware of real-world police practice in the UK.
But did you go?! Please say you didn’t go. If they had any evidence on you then they would’ve arrested you not telephoned you to invite you in. At which point you would also have had automatic legal advice too.
I’m sure it’s super annoying when actual criminals get away with stuff by saying “no comment”. But they do it for a reason! There’s rarely a reason to answer any questions, even if you’re totally innocent.
They decided they didn’t need to interrogate me after all. Otherwise, I’d had gone. Judging from past experiences, the best way to deal with the police is make sure to show that that you’ve no reason to be afraid of them.
I just wrote this because the reply I got to Exactly why are you stopping or talking to me? was Because you’re a suspect in a criminal investigation which is completely generic if any details of the crime being investigated are withheld.
‘… the reply I got to Exactly why are you stopping or talking to me? was Because you’re a suspect in a criminal investigation which is completely generic … ‘
It’s completely inadequate, intended to intimidate the timid, and completely unacceptable, like so much police behaviour.
‘The Police’ have traded on the support of politicians, the tabloid press and Dixon of Dock Green for far too long. The reality is that many, perhaps most if not all, of them are worthless anti-social trash who are unfit to wear any sort of uniform and certainly not suitable to be given authority over law-abiding members of society. Many should be in prison rather than police uniform and some actually have been.
‘The Police’ are in urgent need of thorough, top to bottom reform, with a major cull of currently serving members, and police officers should play no part in the reform process. Allowing those who seek the power to interfere in and destroy our lives to dictate what powers they are to have over us is not in our interests. They must be brought to understand that they are our servants not our masters and we will decide their terms of service.
No one ‘gets away with’ anything by saying ‘no comment’. Everyone charged with an offence is innocent until proven guilty, regardless of the severity of the crime or the number of allegations, and no one is obliged to say anything either to prove his innocence or to assist the prosecution to prove his guilt. Those accused and presumed to be innocent are only acquitted if the prosecution fails to prove the charges against them.
It has always puzzled me that suspects are told they do not have to say anything however it may harm their defence if they later rely in court on something they should have said at interview. How does that work where a suspect has the right to silence and is presumed innocent?
I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised after the ludicrous advice to stamp and clap at sports matches instead of singing and shouting.
Has the ‘Dick’ not gone yet? When is a government minister going to grow a pair and ring this idiot and tell her that her time is over. Can you imagine the chaos now she has said that a male officer shouldn’t be trusted with a lone female? This is what happens when wokeness infects a service that is supposed to keep us safe.
Our local Chief Constable has made his officers remove their rainbow laces/hair clips/badges ASAP, and also announced that he wants less graduate recruits, apparently they don’t like to fight..LOL. What is clear is that if large enough numbers pushed back against the police they would now crumble, the miners today would walk all over them. FataTurk needs to keep this in mind if he pushed forward with plan B.
She’s fireproof. She presided over the murder of an innocent Brazilian electrician and not only kept her job but was promoted. Which is symbolic of the problem facing us.
The best response to a police officer who confronts you is “please show me your warrant card to prove you are a genuine police officer”. Film it. Normally they will refuse. If they do, politely ask them a second time. If they still refuse remind them that if they refuse a third time they are committing a criminal offence and against their sworn police oath with an automatic prison sentence.
Good idea in principle, but how would I film it? I don’t have a smartphone.
Well said. And if you’re alone and there’s no-one around…? This might be all very well in a shopping centre or a crowded Saturday market place – but at night on an empty street?
you could be dead by the time you had asked them a third time, espec if you were a woman, but don’t worry, HMG is very concerned about offences being committed against women and girls, police forces up and down the country are involved in all sorts of naval gazing on this subject at time of writing
Not accepting handcuffs and refusing to get into the car would be Resisting Arrest.
I’m female. A few years ago I got waved over and stopped by a copper (in uniform) who was on speeding duty in the Surrey village I live in. I was doing marginally over 30mph.
When he told me I was speeding, which I acknowledged, I added “but I was slowing down to 30” ….. his response was “are you challenging me, because if you are I will detain you here for a long time.” Police are TRAINED to intimidate.
That was a very minor speeding issue. Yet now women are supposed to challenge an Officer in far scarier situations! It’s a moronic suggestion.
So I’m a woman alone, it’s dark, a lone police officer stops and confronts me, and I say ”Excuse me, officer, but I must question you first….”
Good luck with that one. If he’s hell bent on evil, no questions are going to stop him in his tracks. We still hope this type are few and far between.
Brilliant. We will no longer deploy plain clothes officers on their own, apart from the times that we do. Incredibly reassuring.
If you’re split up from your partner, or are off duty (hopefully not drinking in the pub with your girlfriend and her underage sister!), don’t approach anyone you feel might be intimidated by your actions. Call for assistance and if necessary follow from a safe distance.
Oh, and don’t be a psychopath.
Current reports are not mentioning: –
1 The policing of the vigil on Clapham Common.
2 The immediate insertion of more plain-clothes officers into night-clubs etc.
3 The non-participation in subsequent events of someone personally close to Sarah who said she was not participating because she was upset by what she called the ‘hijacking’ of Sarah’s death.
4 The subsequent increase of powers for the police by an act of Parliament
A recruitment system that allows one Wayne Couzens into ‘The Police’ is capable of allowing many more. How many more like Wayne Couzens are currently acting out their sad, inadequate and dangerously perverted power fantasies in what passes for a police uniform these days?