King’s College London Professor of Genetics Tim Spector dismayed many of his Twitter followers yesterday by calling for the vaccination of older children. The reason? Because the Delta (Indian) variant means we now need 85% of the population vaccinated to reach herd immunity, he claims.
Professor Spector, who leads the ZOE Covid symptom study, was replying on Twitter to Israeli scientist Eran Segal, who tweeted: “Before Delta, Israel reached herd immunity or close to it. To regain herd immunity, we need to vaccinate as many of the 1.2 million over the age of 12 who have not yet been vaccinated.”
Spector wrote: “In the U.K. with delta we need to get near 85% of the population – which also means vaccinating older children.”
In calling for this, Prof Spector appears not to be concerned about the worries of many scientists including members of the JCVI about the benefit-versus-risk balance for teenagers in having the vaccine, or the ethics of suggesting children should be given a vaccine with no long-term safety data not for their own benefit but for the benefit of others.
The notion that a threshold of herd immunity will only be reached if 85% of the population is vaccinated also bears no relationship to real-world data. It’s not entirely clear what Segal and Spector mean by herd immunity in these tweets, but if they mean that without an 85% vaccination rate the Delta variant will continue indefinitely to cause mass hospitalisations and deaths, then perhaps they would like to explain why India’s test positivity rate entered a sustained plummet nearly two months ago, despite the Delta variant being dominant and the country at that point having only 2.5% of its population fully vaccinated? (The figure now stands scarcely higher at 4.3%.)
While there was some reduction in mobility in the country around that time, that has largely recovered now without triggering a reversal of the trend.
Plainly, the decline of India’s Delta variant outbreak did not require 85% of the population to be vaccinated. Just as the decline of England’s Alpha variant outbreak in December did not require such a measure. The Alpha variant, having declined, also failed to resurge in England as restrictions were lifted.
There is in fact no evidence from anywhere that any variant of the virus requires 85% of a population or anything like it to be vaccinated in order to exhaust itself within a few weeks. Outbreaks involving new variants quickly enter decline without vaccinating anyone let alone almost the entire population.
A further point is that we’re already now experiencing the Delta variant surge in the U.K, such as it is, so it’s too late to vaccinate children to prevent it, assuming that were possible. If the idea then becomes to vaccinate children pre-emptively for the next variant surge, in order to prevent it (again, assuming that were possible), we have to ask why? Given that all the vulnerable are fully vaccinated, why worry about teenagers getting runny noses? In fact, exposure to pathogens while young and healthy is an important part of developing a robust immune system.
The Delta variant really is no kind of reason to vaccinate children.
Stop Press: According to the ZOE app’s latest daily report, symptomatic infections in people vaccinated with at least one dose are increasing about as fast as in unvaccinated people, albeit from a lower level. While the data on vaccine effectiveness against serious illness and death has been consistently encouraging, data on effectiveness against infection has been more mixed, and this latest data suggests some of the more optimistic estimates may be on the high side.
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This man’s proclamation is criminal and he should be locked up.
Neil Oliver calls it like it is on GB News. A voice of sanity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgzhqsIXr10
Not sure how long this will last on YT
Indeed, it’s a fork in the road. And as far as I’m concerned anyone on the wrong side of that fork isn’t worthy of the title human being.
It’s always said that civil wars are the bitterest type of war. It’s frightening to see at first hand how easy it is to descend into that kind of bitterness – where one believes one’s enemy isn’t worthy of the title human being.
Disappointing – no connection with him having his funding continued by the Government recently? Seen a gradual change in his analysis lately and the way his ZOE app calculates infection rates etc. As history shows the price of integrity is cheap, and once purchased easily discarded. I have uninstalled the ZOE app and if any of you are using the thing may think about doing the same. Why did I participate in using it? Hopefully obvious. Uninfected I remain yours truly.
I’ve done the same and emailed them to tell them why
When is this fuckwittery going to stop?
Tim Spector receives funding from the Wellcome Trust, MRC, NIHR, CDRF, and is an employee of Kings College London. He has given talks for Danone, Nestle and Yakult and is on the scientific advisory board of Zoel global Ltd
Spector is yet another Big Pharma shill
There is no excuse for Spector being so delusional, unless its an adverse reaction to him having been injected with an unapproved experimental DNA changing sequenced gene therapy.
Will is extraordinarily thorough & a good writer.
I just wish he had editorial freedom to tell the truth. I’d happily write an article on “The eight Covid19 lies”. But they wouldn’t publish. Nor will talkradio interview me.
There is no one fully on the side of the citizen.
All U.K. institutions have fallen in behind the false narrative or gone mute.
The places I do get a hearing are the southern United States, especially the Christians / Evangelicals. Also Wisconsin, Senator Ron Johnson’s stamping ground.
I’m a humble agnostic, but I learn the local religious leaders can make decisions locally & choose how, if at all, to preach to their flocks.
I tried so hard, but there are too few qualified scientists alongside me in U.K. & I’m almost completely censored as well.
Suggests government is quite scared of me.
But I’ve reached a sad decision.
Bang for buck is now so poor in every dimension that it’s a bad use of my limited time & energy to remain & do interviews or write in U.K.
I’m not only blanked on MSM, from all well known tech platforms.
I note with interest that the Gates funded Reuters… Read more »
Churchill: ‘When you’re going through hell, keep going’.
You have Truth and Right on your side. Stick to your guns and all will come right in the end.
You’ll be walking head held high while the likes of that ‘journalist’, and the Whittys Vallances and the rest of the shower, have slunk back into nothingness from which they came. And some of them dragging out their remaining years wearing orange jump suits.
Either that or we as a society are done for anyway. In which case we may as well go down fighting.
I said this about Spectre a couple of weeks ago. Early on he was the voice of reason – now, it’s like he’s been bought. Sad
I unfollowed Mr Spector’s Twitter feed & stopped watching his Zoe clips as it became apparent some months ago, that Mr Spector was in alignment with big pharma and not the medical needs and wants of the general public. Any medic on a public platform who advocates vaccinating children must accept full responsibility for any deaths / injuries caused. And, if Dr Lawrie’s concern comes true in that a humanitarian crisis is brewing, then he along with any other public mouth pieces, must be held to account. And by God, we will make sure they are.
Stop the ridiculous obsession with constantly testing people and this horror show goes away. If you have cold symptoms, be advised to stay home until better, otherwise normality should return immediately……
How the hell are the test and trace factories going to last beyond that kind of foolishness !!!!
I know but you see I am a bad person so……
I had been reporting via their app in a vain attempt to counterbalance the undoubted overrepresentation of the worried well using it. But I’ve deleted my account now and told them why.
Really, prophecy is so easy these days it is barely worth taking up the calling. And now comes the Peruvian variant, which is resistant … maybe … to vaccines! Just in time to be worked up for autumn dread and boosters.
He was told behind the scenes that funding for his team at KCL is more likely if he toes the line? I think he had a bid refused in 2020.
This man needs sacking now.
Spector has always struck me as a transparently fake sceptic, in all honesty I’ve never understood why he was ever seen as anything but another stooge.
Will , I hope you read the comments section of your articles.
You will have noted that all the ‘health/covid’ digital passports/certificates launched by our freedom loving governments include 3 criteria for a ‘green/go’.
1) Proof of vaccine
2) Proof of negative test
3) Proof of recovery from covid.
Lets look at number 3. The obvious way of testing for that is an antibody test, 10-15 mins max wait after a small finger prick of blood. But NO digi passport allows this. They all say it might be used in due course. They all say that because they know that allowing this would bring the vaccine roll-out to a resounding stop. Because they think that there are many ( majority) of the population who would have a positive result.
Instead they rely on the somewhat counter-intuitive record of a positive PCR test between 15 days and 6 months ago, presumably working on the basis you are not dead you must have recovered. High science at its best (sic).
So I know LDS has studiously kept a neutral stance on vaccination. But given the drive to include children this is becoming increasingly a tenuous stance.
Can I suggest LDS campaign strongly… Read more »
Excellent.
Even the government’s own data shows that the “delta variant” has a survival rate of ~99.9%, and given the amount of deception such as classing deaths with a positive PCR test as deaths “from the virus”, it’s now nothing more than a common cold.
Anyone who injects children with toxic spike proteins, that act like tiny ‘thorns’ on the lining of blood vessels and cause clots and a multitude of health problems, should be charged with genocide and crimes against humanity.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/996740/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf
I had to check that out myself. Yes its clear that vaccinations have zero effect on death rates. The term ’emergemcy care’ seems to be anyone who goes to hosital for treatment, and these are weighted towards the unvaccinated , under 50s, presumably mainly panicking youngsters. However those kept overnight are more evenly weighted vaed or unvaxed, and are more over 50s. This that die are weighted far more to older fully vaccinated people. Its as if the bloody vax doesn’t work at all, its just the same result as you would expect in 2019.
This report cannot be allowed to ‘die’.
I had hoped that the bloody would at least work, but it’s increasingly looking as if they don’t.
There is no question they’re far too toxic to use.
Period.
Even vulnerable elderly & infirm.
Instead, unleash the generic drug treatments!
Finally it’s inconceivable we’re not hugely over a herd immunity threshold.
Those admitted to hospital are likely to score a ‘positive’ result at some point with the blighted tests alongside the gift of nosocomial infections. Hospitals are good for sharing those.
Another controlled opposition dolt showing his true colours.
Just fuck off Tim
As with almost everything to do with Covid comparisons are almost never compare like with like. Until Delta arrived most of the population was equally affected but the deaths occurred to older and sicker people.
Delta, however is mainly attacking those in their teens and twenties (for whatever reason – I think that vaccines and the social habits of young people after months of restrictions are the main factors).
Without adjusting the figures for the different demographics the figures from the so-called professionals are meaningless.
That’s not the case. Recall last year the people who took the least precautions, rationally, were young people
They’ve long passed herd immunity.
Ignore PCR test results. Literally meaningless.
When you say attacking, presumably you mean ‘testing positive’.
Spector has been “ratioed” with this tweet, so maybe he’ll think again.
What does that mean? I’m not on Twitter, I just read the varied tweets.
Why do the so called experts only see vaccination uptake as the way out of this? After waves one and two, the majority of the elderly and vulnerable have unfortunately succumbed to the virus…the dry tinder that we were unable to protect. The virus, through the delta variant, is now circulating preferentially through the younger, less vulnerable, population hence the break between cases and hospitalisations and deaths. Perhaps nothing to do with the efficacy of the vaccines? Natural immunity through wide mild or asymptomatic infection is possibly occuring with the younger demographic.
Because it’s never been about Covid.
“According to the ZOE app’s latest daily report, symptomatic infections in people vaccinated with at least one dose are increasing about as fast as in unvaccinated people, albeit from a lower level.”
Let’s not wipe under the table here that the reporting and assessment criteria for an infection of the vaxxed have been changed, and that the CT number been lowered just for them in the US (I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case in the UK too now).
Tim Spector ‘yes it’s that simple’…………probably as simple as any idiot who believes this total cnut and SAGE
Herd immunity and in particular the HIT are a fairy tale.
A computer model with no real world relevance, applicability and chance in practice, or any medical evidence behind it.
The HIT was invented by these computer modelers (aka epidemiologist) solely and exactly for this purpose on behalf of the pharma industry: to justify the vaccination of people not at risk of a pathogen and disease.
Spector making it up as he goes along implicitly confirms this assessment, originally made and labeled with this warning by Profs Gatti and Montanari.
Good article Will. I appreciate you putting thought and time into your articles on LS.
Will is extraordinarily thorough & a good writer.
I just wish he had editorial freedom to tell the truth.
The places I get a hearing are the southern United States, especially the Christians / Evangelicals.
I’m a humble agnostic, but I learn the local religious leaders can make decisions locally & choose how, if at all, to preach to their flocks.
I tried so hard, but there are too few qualified scientists & I’m almost completely censored.
Bang for buck is so poor that it’s a bad decision to remain & do interviews in U.K.
I note with interest that the Gates funded Reuters has been spending dosh on hopelessly unqualified “journalists” who’s assignment is to smear me.
The only one I managed to hold a long exchange with eventually decided that because he’d spoken to an “expert” who told him that asymptomatic transmission was important after all.
Triumphant that he had someone to disagree with me, he decided that was enough for him.
I’d pointed out that first, your expert is ignorant or a shill & even if they’re right, which they’re not, you’ve SEVEN other Covid19 lies to rebut still.
He’s decided to ignore all of that, and… Read more »
Everybody has their price it seems and integrity has gone on holiday. Thankyou for all your efforts and sorry you have been so badly treated.
Please keep on fighting – you remain a beacon of hope!
Groundhog Day: HM Government downgrades this deadly virus from highly infectious in March…2020; 15 months ago. It has been “officially” recognised that the penetration/incidence within the UK population was then/ still is now on a par with influenza, some outbreaks of which have killed far far more people worldwide in the recent past; it’s mortality effect on people with no co-morbidities is vanishingly small. The Great Virus Con continues; even Prof Ioannidis now refers to the emergency approved use only, not fully tested experimental gene therapy jabs as vaccines; this is grossly confusing as the following extracts demonstrate:
Oxford English dictionary:
A substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.
According to the World Health Organization (WHO), vaccination and immunization are related, although one describes an action while the other describes a process.
By the WHO definition:1
Vaccination employs vaccines to stimulate the body’s own immune system to protect a person against subsequent infection or disease. Immunization is the process wherein a person is made immune or resistant to an infectious disease, typically… Read more »
It’s far simpler than that…ask any person who has had the ‘jab’ and they will tell you they are now ‘safe’ and furthermore if you haven’t joined the club then you now a selfish, disease ridden thing, deserving of insult and slander…I’m quite enjoying it really now my skin has thickened.
Looks like, despite the propaganda, the uptake is not enough so moving down the age group, far away from the ‘vulnerable’ at the start.
I have gone along with the Zoe app for many months, it did seem to be adding some value to the debate. For me he has crossed a line now, the app and my data will be deleted.
I’ve never trusted Tim Spector, ever since I heard him on some early podcast.
Two problems with his analysis (even allowing the conceptual requirement for 85% immunity, which I don’t).
First, it has been clear since the outset that children don’t transmit the virus to anything like the same degree as adults. They have thus immediately made a latent contribution to overall herd immunity, without any previous infection or immunity. Their contribution to herd immunity therefore cannot be calculated or quantified in the same way as that of adults.
Second, it is apparent that the vaccines prevent neither infection nor the development of the disease – even says so on the packet. Thus they will provide only a limited brake on transmission, and a very limited contribution to herd immunity.
I find it inconceivable that the Tim Spectors of this world are unaware of these very basic facts.
Which leads me to a further question: are him and his ilk just stunningly ignorant, or is something else going on?
I keep coming back to that oh-so-telling phrase: ‘the banality of evil’.
The increase in ‘cases’ in both the highly vaxxed Seychelles and Israel would tend to show that the vaccine itself is ineffective in stopping transmission, or has waning effectiveness.
What they see is, who else can we blame and Jabb? Children of course.
As you say, evil.