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Yesterday, Professor Neil Ferguson told the Science and Technology Select Committee in the House of Commons that if the Government had locked down a week earlier, the death toll would be less than half what it is now.

The epidemic was doubling every three to four days before lockdown interventions were introduced.

So, had we introduced lockdown measures a week earlier, we would have reduced the final death toll by at least a half.

But where’s the evidence that the number of people becoming infected was “doubling every three to four days” in the week running up to lockdown?

Numerous analyses – the latest by Simon Wood, a Professor at Bristol University, entitled “Did COVID-19 infections decline before UK lockdown?” – suggest the R number was <1 before the lockdown was imposed. Here’s one of Professor Wood’s graphs, showing the daily infection rate in the lead up to and immediately after lockdown (the red line).

Inferred daily infection rate for England and Wales. Light grey and dark grey regions show 95% and 68% confidence regions, respectively.

You can read more about Professor Wood’s paper in this blog post by Fraser Nelson.

The same conclusion was reached by Carl Heneghan, Professor of Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford, who has long maintained that infections peaked shortly after the Government introduced a raft of social distancing measures on March 16th and were declining by the time the lockdown was imposed on March 23rd. He told the Mail:

The peak of deaths occurred on April 8th, and if you understand that then you work backwards to find the peak of infections.

That would be 21 days before then, right before the point of lockdown.

Far from imposing the lockdown a week earlier, these data suggest it wasn’t necessary to impose it at all. Infections were falling before it was introduced and would have continued to fall, just as they did after peaking in those countries that didn’t impose a lockdown – like Sweden and Belarus – as well as those US states that avoided locking down. As numerous analysts have pointed out, the trajectory of the pandemic has followed almost exactly the same pattern in every country it’s afflicted, regardless of whether or not that country locked down, when it locked down or the severity of the lockdown it imposed.

Graph showing that the rise and fall of deaths in England and Sweden followed exactly the same pattern if you adjust for population size

The reason the media has seized on Neil Ferguson’s statement is because it fits the narrative that the UK’s high Covid death toll is due to Boris Johnson’s “dither and delay” at the beginning of the crisis. This was the narrative set in stone by a Sunday Times article on May 23rd entitled: “22 days of dither and delay on coronavirus that cost thousands of British lives.” A key plank of that case is that the scientists advising the Government were urging the Prime Minister to impose a lockdown long before he did and if only he’d listened to them – to epidemiologists like Professor Ferguson – many unnecessary deaths could have been prevented.

But if you go through the minutes of the SAGE meetings immediately preceding the lockdown decision, there isn’t any evidence that the scientific attendees were urging the Government to impose more severe social distancing measures.

As I’ve blogged about before, the former barrister Paul Chaplin has gone through the SAGE minutes in a lengthy blog post and concluded that placing the entire country under virtual house arrest was not something the Government did at the behest of its scientific advisors. His analysis is compelling.

Chaplin finds plenty of evidence in the minutes that various different containment measures were discussed by SAGE, but at no point before March 23rd did the group recommend the quarantining of the whole population. The measures SAGE considered were home isolation of symptomatic individuals, the isolation of everyone in a symptomatic individual’s household for 14 days and the cocooning of those over 70 and those with underlying health conditions – the three measures introduced by the Government on March 16th.

At no point did SAGE discuss anything resembling a full lockdown. Indeed, SAGE noted at a meeting on March 10th that banning public gatherings would have little effect since most viral transmission occurred in confined spaces, such as within households.

The last SAGE meeting before the lockdown was on March 18th where it was noted that the impact of the social distancing measures introduced thus far would not be known for two or three weeks. The attendees did not at that stage know whether those measures would be sufficient to prevent the NHS’s critical care capacity being overwhelmed and in the absence of more data could not offer any advice on whether additional measures – such as closing bars, restaurants and entertainment centres, and limiting use of indoor workplaces – would be necessary. The only further measure SAGE recommended at that meeting was closing schools.

SAGE advises that the measures already announced should have a significant effect, provided compliance rates are good and in line with the assumptions. Additional measures will be needed if compliance rates are low.

Minutes of the 17th SAGE meeting on COVID-19, March 18th 2020

The attendees discussed locking down London but no conclusion was reached. However, they did say that if additional measures were going to be necessary, it would be better to bring them in sooner rather than later. According to the minutes: “If the interventions are required, it would be better to act early.”

In other words, Boris Johnson and his advisors were not following “the science” when they took the decision to lock down the country on March 23rd – they weren’t acting on any specific recommendations by SAGE. Nor can the Government claim this is one of the options that was discussed at SAGE meetings and it was basing its decision, in part, on SAGE’s analysis of the impact of a full lockdown. That option was not discussed at any of the meetings before March 23rd.

This dovetails with Christopher Snowdon’s analysis of the decision-making in the period leading up to March 23rd published in The Critic on May 28th, although Snowdon only had access to the broad summaries of the SAGE meetings that the Government has released at that point, not the more detailed minutes that were released on May 28th as a result of Simon Dolan’s lawsuit.

Snowdon concluded that the Government’s scientific advisors never explicitly recommended a lockdown; on the contrary, at various stages they recommended against it.

Snowdon says that even Neil Ferguson’s March 16th paper, predicting 510,000 Covid deaths if the Government took no measures to stop the spread of the virus and 250,000 if it stuck with its “mitigation” strategy, stopped short of recommending a full lockdown:

Contrary to popular belief, the infamous study did not call for a full lockdown, nor did it model the effects of a full lockdown. It looked at school closures, social distancing and household quarantine for suspected cases and those living with them. It concluded that the greatest benefit would come from a combination of social distancing and household quarantine, with further benefits likely to come from closing schools, although it conceded that school closures would prevent many people from working.

There is no doubt that Ferguson’s model was impactful. It suggested that hundreds of thousands of people would die from COVID-19 if the Government continued to pursue a policy of mitigation. This put containment back on the table and gave legitimacy to more coercive action from Government, but the measures it recommended did not amount to a full lockdown. Its social distancing recommendations were far from trivial and yet they seem modest after nine weeks of genuine lockdown (the authors anticipated most people still going to work, for example). The only time Ferguson and colleagues use the word “lockdown” in the text is when they are making a distinction between their proposals and an actual lockdown. They implicitly dismiss a lockdown as being too extreme for the UK, saying that their favoured policies are “predicted to have the largest impact, short of a complete lockdown which additionally prevents people going to work”.

Snowdon’s conclusion is remarkably similar to Chaplin’s:

The founding myth of the lockdown is almost the opposite of the truth. Science did not triumph over politics on March 23rd. It would be more accurate to say that the strategy which preceded the lockdown, unpopular though it now is, was based on science whereas the decision to go into lockdown was political.

I emailed Christopher Snowdon when I blogged about this before to see if he’d had a chance to look at the SAGE minutes and he got back to me to say he had and they did indeed corroborate his analysis:

The minutes fully support what I wrote in The Critic. The social distancing measures discussed by SAGE – and modelled separately by Neil Ferguson et al. and John Edmunds et al. – are not well described in the documents, but it is clear that they are more moderate than the lockdown that was introduced on March 23rd. Even at the late stage of mid-March, SAGE was never seriously entertaining a full lockdown, nor did the attendees expect their more modest measures to be in place for more than 12 weeks. To claim otherwise is to rewrite history.

A reader challenged this analysis, claiming that if you look at the minutes from SAGE 18, the meeting which took place on March 23rd, the same day the full lockdown was imposed, it’s clear that the Government was “following the science”.

I took a look and don’t agree. As with the meeting of March 18th, there’s more stuff about not yet being able to assess the impact of the social distancing measures announced on March 16th, not much about them being insufficient: “SAGE noted that social distancing behaviours have been adopted by many but there is uncertainty whether they are being observed at the level required to bring the epidemic within NHS capacity.” However, there is some talk of the effectiveness of those measures: “Footfall in London transport hubs reduced by 80-90% over the weekend, but in retail and food outlets has decreased by a smaller margin.”

There is some other interesting stuff in there, however. For one thing, the attendees seem quite worried about the negative impact on public health of the measures already introduced. “Actuarial analysis is required to estimate deaths caused indirectly by COVID-19, including those caused by the social interventions,” says one of the minutes. (Is this the ONS data that was released on June 5th analysing excess deaths not involving coronavirus?) Another says: “Given the clear links between poverty and long-term ill health, health impacts associated with the economic consequences of interventions also need to be investigated.” And: “In due course, analysis of the effects of the interventions on other causes of death should be undertaken.”

There’s also some evidence that it was beginning to dawn on SAGE that COVID-19 is a predominantly nosocomial disease. There’s a reference to “nosocomial hospital clusters” and one of the action points is “NERVTAG and DSTL to investigate spread of COVID-19 in hospitals”.

Interestingly, the minutes also say that any restrictions on travel into the country “would have a negligible effect on spread”.

And that last minute points to one of the major shortcomings of the scientific advice the Government has received during this crisis. That is, at no point during the beginning of the pandemic did any of the members of the official scientific committees recommend that Britain introduce port-of-entry screening, when it could have actually been effective (unlike now).

Readers of this site will recall my post on May 9th pointing out that the Newly Emerging Respiratory Virus Advisory Group (NERVTAG) considered screening passengers arriving from Wuhan at a meeting on January 13th chaired by Peter Horby, an Oxford professor with links to the World Health Organisation. This is the same Peter Horby who has criticised the Government for easing the lockdown too soon. At this point, seven other countries had introduced temperature screening at airports for visitors from Wuhan. However, the NERVTAG recommendation was that there would be no point in doing this if exit screening at Wuhan airports was already taking place, although they had no evidence it was.

At the next NERVTAG meeting on January 21st, this one attended by Chris Witty and his deputy Jonathan Van-Tam, as well as Professor Neil Ferguson, the boffins were asked to reconsider the question. But again they passed the buck to the Chinese authorities. By now, human-to-human transmission had been confirmed. Nonetheless, NERVTAG’s response was the same.

Neil Ferguson noted that from the modelling perspective, with exit screening in place in China, effectiveness of port-of-entry screening in the UK would be low and potentially only detect those who were not sick before boarding but became sick during the flight. NERVTAG felt there was a lack of clarity on the exit screening process in Wuhan, although it was thought that this process would be robust, and statements had been released by Chinese authorities about stopping febrile passengers from travelling. However, as noted, there were no data on the implementation of this programme.

Minutes of the NERVTAG Wuhan Novel Coronavirus Second Meeting: January 21st 2020

So rather than recommend port-of-entry screening, the assembled brains at NERVTAG decided to trust to the Chinese authorities to screen people leaving the country.

That may count as one of the biggest blunders the British Government and its scientific advisers – notably Professor Ferguson – made. It’s a shame that none of the MPs questioning the Imperial Professor yesterday appeared to be aware of any of this. If they were, they could have pointed out that he was present at the meetings in January when a measure was discussed that really might have saved lives and he recommended against it. Those countries that started screening airline passengers arriving from Wuhan in early January have some of the lowest Covid death tolls of anywhere in the world – Hong Kong (four deaths), Taiwan (7), Singapore (25), Malaysia (118), Thailand (58) and Vietnam (0).

Yesterday, Channel 4 News added its 10 cents to the case against Boris, bringing us what its Health and Social Care Correspondent Victoria Macdonald called an “exclusive”. This was the revelation that a member of the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling (SPI-M), Professor Steve Riley, produced a paper on March 9th saying that unless the Government imposed a full lockdown 1.7 million Britons would die over the next 18 months.

Macdonald acknowledged that she didn’t know if this paper had been circulated to SAGE, let alone shown to anyone in the Government, so it’s hardly a smoking gun.

But if it was circulated, the Government would have been right to dismiss it.

I haven’t seen Professor Riley’s paper, but assuming he was estimating that 80% of the country would be infected over an 18-month period, that means 53,600,000 would become infected. For that to result in 1.7 million deaths – the headline figure in the Channel 4 News report – the virus would have to have an infection fatality rate of >3.2% – higher, even, than the WHO’s initial estimate. If we assume the IFR Professor Riley was working with was 3.25%, that’s nearly 13 times the CDC’s current best estimate of the IFR, which is ~0.26%.

I’m amazed Professor Riley is sharing this forecast with Channel 4 News – if, indeed, that’s how Macdonald got her hands on it. If I was the author of that paper, I’d bury it in a nuclear waste facility at the bottom of the North Sea.

So to summarise:

  • Had Boris imposed the lockdown a week earlier it wouldn’t have made any difference to the subsequent Covid death toll since the R number was already falling by the time the lockdown was imposed. Neil Ferguson’s claim that infections were doubling every three or four days in the week leading up to the lockdown is evidence-free political point-scoring.
  • Nearly every robust comparative analysis of the rise and fall of the disease in different countries across the world has come to the same conclusion: the pattern is unaffected by whether or not a country imposed a full lockdown, when it imposed it, or how severe it was.
  • There is no evidence that the Government’s scientific advisors, acting in their official capacity as members of SAGE and its subgroups, advised the Government to impose a full lockdown before March 23rd.
  • The one intervention the Government could have made that really might have saved lives would have been to introduce port-of-entry screening in January. That’s something Neil Ferguson explicitly warned against, preferring to rely on a Communist dictatorship to ensure the safety of the British people.

Round-Up

And on to the round-up of all the stories I’ve noticed, or which have been been brought to my attention, in the last 24 hours:

Small Businesses That Have Reopened

A few weeks ago, Lockdown Sceptics launched a searchable directory of open businesses across the UK. The idea is to celebrate those retail and hospitality businesses that have reopened, as well as help people find out what has opened in their area. But we need your help to build it, so we’ve created a form you can fill out to tell us about those businesses that have opened near you. Please visit the page and let us know about those brave folk who are doing their bit to get our country back on its feet.

Shameless Begging Bit

Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the last 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. It takes me many hours every day, which doesn’t leave much time for other work. If you feel like donating, however small the amount, please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links I should include in future updates, email me here.

And Finally…

The latest journalist to challenge the concept of “systemic racism” is summarily dealt with by his junior colleagues

Slightly off topic and not funny, but this letter by an anonymous history professor at the University of California, Berkeley, taking issue with some of the claims made by the Black Lives Matter movement, as well as the uncritical way in which they’re accepted and regurgitated by American universities, is a must-read. No doubt as soon as his identity is discovered he will be subject to a mobbing and may very well lose his job.

If you want to see a growing list of all those who’ve suffered catastrophic career damage for challenging the orthodoxies of the BLM movement, or because they haven’t genuflected before it with sufficient piety, or because they’re married to someone who’s criticised it (not making that up), click here. It’s up to 21 so far, but to borrow a phrase from Neil Ferguson, it’s growing exponentially. And if you want to donate to the Free Speech Union, which has already gone to bat for one of these people (Stuart Peters, the Manx Radio presenter suspended for questioning the concept of “white privilege”), click here.

Comments

This week across the site:

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rodmclaughlin
rodmclaughlin
6 years ago

The letter from an anonymous academic which was disappeared from Pastebin has shown up here: https://uncoverdc.com/2020/06/12/uc-berkeley-history-professors-open-letter-against-blm-police-brutality-and-cultural-orthodoxy/

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
6 years ago

https://slate.com/technology/2020/06/advice-on-reopening-activies-er-doctor.html
 
I’m an ER Doctor. Here’s What I Feel OK Doing as My State Reopens.
………………….
 
 
So should I just ignore the fact that restrictions are easing, and stay home?

Well, I haven’t been.

Yes, we would all be safer at home. If you had the ability to ride out the pandemic, however long it takes, by staying home, growing and cooking your own food, ordering nothing off the internet, and avoiding contact with anyone except those who had chosen to isolate themselves with you, you could be 100 percent guaranteed not to be infected with coronavirus. You would also be guaranteed not to die in a car accident, an occurrence whose lifetime risk is 1 in 100 for people who live in this country. And yet most of us drive every day.

I know that people want to be safe and healthy but that they also want art, and laughter, and music, and bourbon—to create them and to consume them.

Responsible people take risks all the time in the course of normal life. And as responsible people, both out of regard for ourselves and for others, we take steps to mitigate those risks.… Read more »

JohnB
JohnB
6 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Makes his/her kids wear masks. Fucker.

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
6 years ago

Businesses can scrap two-metre rule if they take other coronavirus precautions, scientists say  
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/12/businesses-can-scrap-two-metre-rule-take-coronavirus-precautions/
 
The two-metre social distancing rule can be abandoned by businesses reopening after lockdown if they introduce other measures to reduce the spread of coronavirus, Government scientists have told ministers.
Following a political backlash against the two-metre rule, the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) published a paper on Friday which set out protocols – such as regular breaks, and getting workers to sit side by side – that would make it much safer for people to be within one metre of each other. 
 
……………..
 
 
When people are at close range and face to face, transmission is most likely to be through respiratory droplets, but aerosol transmission of fine particles can carry further depending on ventilation. 
The new research says that sitting within one metre of a person side by side or back to back is as safe as facing a person at two metres when indoors. 
“When people are side to side or behind one another, risk is via aerosols and so is determined by the influence of ventilation; at one metre the exposure risks would be similar to two metres when face to face… Read more »

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
6 years ago

https://off-guardian.org/
 
 
REPORT: Over 95% of UK “Covid19” deaths had “pre-existing condition”
 
 
Over 95% of “COVID Deaths” recorded in England and Wales had potentially serious comorbidities, according to statistics released by NHS England.
 
The latest figures make for pretty stark reading. Or, rather, they would make for stark reading…if they didn’t follow the exact same pattern already shown in other nations around the world.
 
You can read the full report here. We’re going to focus on the comorbidity stats. Here are the number of deaths where Covid19 was listed as the only cause, split by age:

Ages 0-19: 3 Ages 20-39: 32 Ages 40-59: 255 Ages 60-79: 551 Ages 80+: 477  
These are across all of England and Wales since the beginning of the “pandemic”.
 
Simply put: Of the 27045 deaths with Covid19 in English hospitals (up to June 3rd), only 1318 had no pre-existing conditions. That’s less than 5%.
 
Christopher Bowyer has made some great graphs for the figures at Hector Drummond Magazine, none more impactful than this this:
<strong?x95016
[click to enlarge]
Those big green bars are all the people who died “with” Covid19 AND some other serious disease. The little yellow bars are the people who died with… Read more »

George Dance
6 years ago

This being a UK site, I wonder how many are familiar with the American Institute of Economic Research – an old and venerable libertarian thinktank that’s transformed into a leading voice lockdown and shutdown scepticism on our side of the pond. Here’s my blogged abridgement of their comment on the “3 million lives saved” claim from the ICL (Imperial College for Lockdowns). Those who want to learn more about AIER can click through to their site.
 
“Imperial College’s claim that lockdowns saved 3 million lives in Europe relies on the same bad logic as Donald Trump’s claim that he saved 2 million American lives.”
https://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/06/lockdowns-saved-3-million-lives-claim.html

Annie
Annie
6 years ago
Reply to  George Dance

Yes, Eggs in moonshine.
But the zombies believe it. The longer we are all banged up, the more lives will be saved.
Great God in Heaven.

FiFi Trixabelle
FiFi Trixabelle
6 years ago

I’ve just discovered this evening that childminders in Scotland (under Phase one of our easing) have been allowed to start operating again. They can take children from up to 4 different households plus their own. Am I the only one to think this is utter madness when schools and nurseries are shut and currently I’m only allowed to go 5 miles, have a socially distant bbq in the garden and pee in a bush?

CarrieAH
CarrieAH
6 years ago

Simon Dolan has tweeted an update about his legal case against the government over lockdown and quarantine for travellers. He says their letter of defence is 58 pages long, arrived 3 minutes before the deadline, and that they are using a QC and 3 barristers. He says they are “evidently terrified.”

Annie
Annie
6 years ago
Reply to  CarrieAH

I really, really hope that he’s right.
If it wasn’t blasphemous, I would say ‘crucify them’.

CarrieAH
CarrieAH
6 years ago
Reply to  Annie

Even if Simon Dolan actually loses in court, I am hoping he may actually “win” anyway just by the amount of information that will inevitably come out during the case. The MSM will pick over it like rats in a dustbin once it has got that far – the Telegraph will love it – and a lot more will become public. Fingers crossed!

CarrieAH
CarrieAH
6 years ago
Reply to  CarrieAH

And as Toby’s article says, SAGE never suggested a full lockdown and Johnson and his cabinet were not “following the science” when they decided to go ahead. If this gets to Court they are likely deep in pigs’ muck and they will know it.

A concerned doctor
A concerned doctor
6 years ago

Any chance that people can fill in this survey about their thoughts on lockdown (which is from LSE).
I really think it needs some more sceptic views to counter the general lunacy that appears to have taken over…
https://lse.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_5huZ0ysuUtrqOAB

Thanks! (Not my study)

CarrieAH
CarrieAH
6 years ago

Will do! Thank you.

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
6 years ago

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/12/science-right-government-wrong/
 
‘The science’ was right – it was the Government that was wrong SAGE advisors never suggested a full lockdown – so why are they now trying to rewrite history? By TOBY YOUNG
 
………………………………
The penultimate SAGE meeting before the lockdown was on March 18 where it was noted that the impact of the measures introduced so far would not be known for two or three weeks. According to the minutes, the boffins said it was too early to say whether additional measures – such as closing pubs, restaurants and entertainment venues – would be necessary.
In short, Boris Johnson and his Cabinet were not “following the science” when they took the decision to place everyone under virtual house arrest, and nor were they ignoring it by not doing so earlier. On the contrary, their scientific advisors were urging a more cautious approach.
…………………….
In other words, the containment measures introduced on March 16 were more than sufficient to halt the spread of the virus. The government’s scientific advisors did not urge the Prime Minister to go any further, and they were right not to do so. I’m convinced that the decision to place the entire country in suspended… Read more »

Nic
Nic
6 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Wow this should be all the newspapers headline story tomorrow

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Makes me wonder again, in the light of past revelations, just how much it was Cummings’ political influence, panicking about negative NHS-related headlines, that pushed
Johnson over the edge and into full panic mode?
 
Don’t know if Toby mentions this in the article as I don’t have or want a Telegraph subscription.

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

I do, so i highlighted the best bits
 

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Does he name names, in terms of who was pushing the lockdown crime to the PM, politically?

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Mark
 
No names
 
 
More from it:
 
The penultimate SAGE meeting before the lockdown was on March 18 where it was noted that the impact of the measures introduced so far would not be known for two or three weeks. According to the minutes, the boffins said it was too early to say whether additional measures – such as closing pubs, restaurants and entertainment venues – would be necessary.
In short, Boris Johnson and his Cabinet were not “following the science” when they took the decision to place everyone under virtual house arrest, and nor were they ignoring it by not doing so earlier. On the contrary, their scientific advisors were urging a more cautious approach.
In the SAGE meeting on March 23, the day lockdown was announced, the attendees flagged up the negative impact of the containment measures. “Actuarial analysis is required to estimate deaths caused indirectly by Covid-19, including those caused by the social interventions,” says one of the minutes. Another says: “Given the clear links between poverty and long-term ill health, health impacts associated with the economic consequences of interventions also need to be investigated.”
Some will point to the report by Professor Ferguson… Read more »

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
6 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

I think we need to be careful at this stage. From what I have seen of the SAGE minutes, and having spent considerable time looking at official declassified government documents in The National Archives, they appear to me to be ‘minutes of minutes’, produced in full knowledge that they would be in the public domain long before the standard 30 year rule. To make a definitive case, we would need to see all the ‘off record’ discussions (memos, emails etc) among the protagonists. Specifically, we need to know how, why and when a dataset from China was provided to ICL for modelling various outcomes in the UK and US (the mid-March, non-peer reviewed paper). This coincided with very aggressive public statements, (volte face), from The Lancet’s Dr Horton on Twitter and Professor Ashton on Question Time. Possibly, or possibly not coincidentally, the teachers unions were agitating on Twitter, and the universities were already making plans to close halls of residence.

StevieH
StevieH
6 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

It is common knowledge (or should be!) that Macron threatened to close the border if we didn’t lock down like in France – no imports, no exports. Faced with that threat, HMG had little option but to follow suit.

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  StevieH

Can you explain your thinking that “HMG had little option but to follow suit”?

Nic
Nic
6 years ago

I get the impression the government are starting to give up the fight most iam sure would walk away given the chance.
It’s not that the majority of them need the money

rodmclaughlin
rodmclaughlin
6 years ago

“this letter by an anonymous history professor at the University of California, Berkeley, taking issue with some of the claims made by the Black Lives Matter movement, as well as the uncritical way in which they’re accepted and regurgitated by American universities” https://pastebin.com/WBzAFDgA. “This page is no longer available. It has either expired, been removed by its creator, or removed by one of the Pastebin staff.” I wonder which it was.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  rodmclaughlin

Knowing what we know about the generally left-censorious political inclinations of tech company staff, the first guess should be that it was taken down, either voluntarily by staff at the company or under coercive pressure from other tech companies their business depends upon.

Alice
Alice
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Hello, Sceptics,
 
Has anyone saved that letter, or does anyone know of an alternative source/link? I sent the link to a friend in the US yesterday, but it’s too late, he can’t see it now! It’s such a shame – it was an excellent summary of the problems we are facing.
 
Big thank you to Toby, and to all the contributors for this great site.
 

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  Alice

@Alice
 
Still up at Reddit.
 
If that goes, it’s posted as full text in a comment on the next Sceptics.

sam
sam
6 years ago

I’m afraid our globalist Blair says we must hvae digital ID !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stAM_XwCLrA
Tony Blair says people will need ‘digital ID’ to prove ‘disease status’ in future 

Bella
Bella
6 years ago
Reply to  sam

Vile, vile man

IanE
IanE
6 years ago
Reply to  Bella

Indeed, though I would shift the ‘e’ from the end to the beginning of that adjective!

Farinances
Farinances
6 years ago
Reply to  sam

Over my dead body Tony. You will literally have to kill me before that happens.

CarrieAH
CarrieAH
6 years ago
Reply to  sam

Dreadful, awful man.

Offlands
Offlands
6 years ago

The European Commission has recommended travel to the EU from selected non-EU countries be allowed to restart from July 1.
 
However, Germany extended its foreign office advice against all but essential travel to most of the world until the end of August this week.
 
Wow!
 
https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/374955/ec-recommends-lifting-restrictions-on-non-eu-travel

Nic
Nic
6 years ago

Adverts on the tv all I hear is “STAY HOME STAY SAFE”
Nothing but a bunch of whimps in the uk these days
I dont want to stay home I dont I dont I dont!
I want to go to the pub watch a match have fun.

CarrieAH
CarrieAH
6 years ago
Reply to  Nic

It’s just one of the reasons I never watch live tv nowadays. Only Netflix and Amazon Prime where the relentless propaganda can be avoided. If it’s as often and as bad as that, no wonder my tv watching friends are so taken in by the whole story.

Nic
Nic
6 years ago
Reply to  CarrieAH

Agree will they ever see sense ,but they are in the majority and the likes of me and you will suffer for their stupidity.

CarrieAH
CarrieAH
6 years ago
Reply to  Nic

Sadly that is very true.

Bella
Bella
6 years ago
Reply to  CarrieAH

Well Netflix has just added a BLM collection which seems a bit like virtual signalling to me. Of course they matter, but come on…

CarrieAH
CarrieAH
6 years ago
Reply to  Bella

They haven’t – yet – removed the Fawlty Towers episode which seems to have caused a furore. I’ve just watched it!

JohnB
JohnB
6 years ago
Reply to  CarrieAH

I think you got away with it then. 🙂

Bella
Bella
6 years ago
Reply to  CarrieAH

Well that’s something. Netflix is one of the mechanisms I’m using to keep me sane.

Farinances
Farinances
6 years ago
Reply to  Nic

I drove past a house today with STAY SAFE *RAINBOW* scrawled all over the garage door. It looked like a kid did it but it still made me gag.

Jonathan Castro
Jonathan Castro
6 years ago
Reply to  Nic

I want to start seeing anti-litter adverts on TV instead. (although I don’t have a licence anyway!)

JohnB
JohnB
6 years ago
Reply to  Nic

I am continually disappointed in several friends who assume they can watch tv without suffering the ill-effects. A combination of arrogance (“Doesn’t affect me”), and an assumption they’ll miss out somehow if they don’t tune in.
 
 

Paul
Paul
6 years ago
Reply to  Nic

I’m sick of the adverts too,endless ‘we’re all in together’crap,lots of happy families really enjoying the lockdown,companies saying how much they care about us and how they are making it ‘safe’ to shop in their stores,constant praise of the NHS and it’s heroes and numerous ‘in these uncertain times you can trust on us’ bullshit from numerous banks and building societies.It’s the same on the radio aswell.I don’t watch any live tv now,my wife does though so I can’t tell the BBC to stick it’s licence where the sun doesn’t shine unfortunately.

karate56
karate56
6 years ago

The government is truly retarded but Grant Shapps must officially be the pinnacle of all dickheads. I watched the daily briefing and as usual, was greeted with utter disbelief. I may be wrong, but non essential shops can open on Monday – thats everyone bar the hospitality industry. Yet the man with a hair cut from bucks fizz says everyone should stay at home and avoid going to work. Dear god what fucking planet are these belters on? I give up.
Open businesses, let people shop to urgently get the economy moving but don’t go to work and stay at home. Thats a clear message if i ever heard one.
What a selection of utter twats, of an order never seen by mankind before, we have in power.

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
6 years ago
Reply to  karate56

Couldn’t agree with you more – and we have another four and half years of it. As my mother would say, if there’s a war, I’m going to join the other side!

Nic
Nic
6 years ago

Could be a total breakdown of law and order before that and the government would be finished anyway.

Nic
Nic
6 years ago
Reply to  karate56

Why dont they scrap these daily briefings and have say 1 a week.
I mean does anyone actually watch this comedy show every day?

Gillian
Gillian
6 years ago
Reply to  Nic

I find the briefings depressing and wooden. Few probing questions are asked and if asked the answers always avoid the issue.

JohnB
JohnB
6 years ago
Reply to  Nic

Too many people on here do, apparently. 🙂

Victoria
Victoria
6 years ago

Received the 1st newsletter from Simon Dolan‘s ‘Keep Britain Free‘ https://www.keepbritainfree.com

Dear Supporter, 

 

Thank you for signing up to the Keep Britain Free campaign.

 

As you know, this country has a proud history of fighting for freedom. Yet in recent years, Government interference has become endemic in the UK. With great concern, I have felt a creeping encroachment on our liberties by those at Number 10, all of this culminating in the catastrophic lockdown we are living in today.

 

Through lockdown, the Government has succeeded in stripping us of our freedoms and liberties. Every aspect of our lives is being controlled by a series of chaotic and conflicting measures. We are told who we can see, where we can go and what we can do. We are even told what to think.

 

These draconian measures are devastating the economy and ruining the lives for many generations to come. Thousands of people are losing their jobs and our children are being denied their education. People are dying. 

 

Through my judicial review proceedings, it has become clear to me that I am in no way alone in my concern.

  

Keep Britain Free is a new movement… Read more »

Polly816
Polly816
6 years ago
Reply to  Victoria

After seeing this posted here I’ve just signed up to Keep Britain Free’s email alerts myself.
 
P.S. one possible piece of good news. When out go out for a walk i make a habit of saying anti-lockdown slogans to passers-by. Today for the first time I got a fully positive response of utter agreement.

Julian
Julian
6 years ago

Has anyone eagle-eyed seen anything on what legal force the insistence on masks has on trains and other public transport?
 
I can’t see anything that covers it in the latest revision of the relevant Coronavirus laws, and neither can I see any sign of the national conditions of travel which govern National Rail being amended.
 
In tonight’s briefing as usual what seems to me like government advice is presented as law by the speaker and by the BBC. Shapps said not wearing a mask could ULTIMATELY lead to a fine, which suggests they have not yet amended any law that can be enforced.

Hammer Onats
Hammer Onats
6 years ago
Reply to  Julian

They said previously they were going to amend the conditions of carriage, a bit like a by-law I guess.

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago
Reply to  Julian

I think the transport company have the right to refuse you service if you don’t comply. Bit like a bouncer at a nightclub not letting you in if you’re wearing trainers. Not illegal to wear trainers but they don’t have to let you in.

Bella
Bella
6 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

Not sure about that. Nightclubs aren’t subsidised with our taxes.

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

Well I think they are bound by the National Conditions of Travel, which I don’t see any sign of having been amended. I don’t think they can make their own rules up.

arfurmo
arfurmo
6 years ago
Reply to  Julian

If you go to any travel operator website and dig deep enough you can find the exceptions which are all self certifying. https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/travelling-with-us/on-the-train/face-coverings-faq

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  arfurmo

Thanks. I think this is the crucial bit: “The regulations are being brought in through the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984”
 
They haven’t done that yet, that I have seen. I suspect this is still being worked on, hence Shapp’s use of the word “ultimately”. Another example of announcements of new “rules” as if they were law, before they actually are.
 
This is the mechanism that they have used for introducing most of the restrictions, and the thing that Simon Dolan’s legal challenge is focused on. I understand the intention of that act was more to restrict movement of specific people or groups, rather than indiscriminate restrictions on an entire population.

Paul
Paul
6 years ago
Reply to  Julian

I can’t see it being enforced when the guards are too frightened to pass through carriages with passengers in,like when the poor chap died on a train at Manchester but no-one noticed until it got to Bournemouth.Some of the jumped up little hitlers in the BTP will enforce it I bet.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
6 years ago

Jesus wept:
 
https://www.waterstones.com/help/coronavirus-updates/2104
 
This will be a nail in the coffin of bookshops and ensure that Amazon’s continued dominance.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago
Reply to  Bart Simpson

Utter bonkersness!
How about queuing in the rain then letting your brolly drip all over the books? (Crime I know but sacrifices must be made.)

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

It is bonkers.
 
As much as I love books and browsing at bookshops, I will sit this one out until these cowards see sense.
 
People won’t take kindly to be made to queue in the pouring rain, howling wind or snow just in order to get to a bookshop. Won’t be surprised if an unfortunate staff member is on the receiving end of colourful language or a fist smashed into their face.

LuluJo
LuluJo
6 years ago
Reply to  Bart Simpson

I so want to support my local High Street, as I value it highly, but I simply cannot see myself putting up with all this nonsense. Not to mention the fact that part of me just wants to go in there (without sanitising my hands) and touch every single book I can reach…

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
6 years ago
Reply to  LuluJo

It’s tempting just to show how absurd all this is. I’m wondering if Waterstone’s are realising that this is in effect a suicide note.

Ianric
Ianric
6 years ago
Reply to  LuluJo

I also want to support the high street and only buy online as a last resort when I can’t find something in the shops. I can’t help thinking that online sellers are influencing government policy as the current situation is a wet dream for online sellers. Firstly shops can’t legally operate for several months and then they take stupid measures which put off customers.

LuluJo
LuluJo
6 years ago
Reply to  Ianric

Hubby has been convinced from the beginning that this has all been part of the lobbying of the tech companies – working from home, online retail, no face to face GP appointments any more, etc etc.

The Spingler
The Spingler
6 years ago
Reply to  LuluJo

It’s so ridiculous and unnecessary. I escaped from Wales over the English border a couple of days ago to visit an country store. I needed to try on some walking boots and buy some socks. I checked before I went. Yes they have installed sinks at the entrance where you are expected to wash your hands but apart from that you go in, you browse, you pick things up, put them down again. I tried on a few pairs of boots, didn’t buy any, they went back on the racks. I rifled through the socks, picked the ones I wanted. Handed them to the person behind the counter. Yes there was a Perspex screen but she handled everything I passed her and passed them back to me. No one died. It was all quite sane and verging on normal. None of the floor staff were wearing any PPE and weren’t worried about staying 2 metres away. There is sanity out there but you probably won’t find it in the national chains as they are run by management groups rather than real individuals

Paul
Paul
6 years ago
Reply to  Bart Simpson

Why are so many companies so determined to commit commercial suicide ?,it wasn’t long ago that Waterstones were moaning that not enough people were going to bookshops,I think this will really draw the punters in .They’ve lost me as a customer.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
6 years ago
Reply to  Paul

I’m asking the same as well. If Waterstone’s go under they will have no-one to blame but themselves and they can’t lay this on the door of Amazon.
 
They should have been making noises to the government before all this.

RDawg
RDawg
6 years ago

“The Director of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC) agency has told MEPs that wearing masks during the ongoing coronavirus pandemic could pose a potential health hazard.”

https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/articles/news/wearing-masks-could-pose-health-hazard-says-head-eu-agency

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago
Reply to  RDawg

“It now appears to have passed its peak with a decline in most EU countries, but all Member States must continue to do several things to maintain this.”
These, she said, include “robust” surveillance strategies which, for instance, can follow the impact of the virus on health systems, extending testing and return-to-work strategies.
Other necessary measures include contact tracing and ensuring there is sufficient healthcare capacity in case of a “new surge.”
She said, “We must also identity best practice and, finally, engage with the public in explaining all these strategies.”
She told members, “I know you have heard this before, but this is a marathon, not a sprint so we must be able to manage peoples’ expectations of the continuing impact this will have on their lives.”
“People need to know that this is not going to end any time soon and they need to prepare for that reality.”
She added, “We must not drop our guard and must continue to maintain high standards of hygiene and social distancing. People need to be constantly reminded that this will not go away as long as we don’t have a vaccine.”
 
Same old sinister stuff!

Nic
Nic
6 years ago

Intersting I look at the coronavirus worlometer e eryday
I know the figures are probably far from accurate but they do give a rough idea

Noticed infections continue to climb approaching 150000 a day but fatalities remain consistently 5000 or below.

I’m not an expert but I wonder if anything can be learned from this regarding how the virus Is progressing.
Anybody have any views on this data?

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
6 years ago
Reply to  Nic

Two teams of doctors in northern Italy, and I think one in the US (or Germany, not sure) have suggested it is becoming less aggressive over time from what they are seeing in their hospitals and surgeries. That seems plausible.

Nic
Nic
6 years ago

Yes I sae those reports WHO quick to say this was not correct.

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
6 years ago
Reply to  Nic

I plead the (misquoted) Mandy Rice-Davies defence!

OKUK
OKUK
6 years ago

Or the weakest and most vulnerable have all died and people better able to fight the infection are left.

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
6 years ago
Reply to  OKUK

Yes, could also explain it, so it ‘looks’ weaker.

Mike Smith
Mike Smith
6 years ago

Article in the Telegraph making out that the proposed undemocratic removal of statues that the far left doesn’t like is some sort of lark. The caption to the photo of the statue they threw into Bristol harbour is: The statue of Edward Colston plops into the Avon in Bristol last weekend.
Plops? This isn’t a rag week stunt.

Offlands
Offlands
6 years ago

Happy Friday everyone (not that any day is that much different to another right now) but we get a new LS update and I cannot wait.
 
In travel news, 2 doctors booked an August holiday with me today. I asked if they were worried about a 2nd wave possibly affecting the trip. ‘Not in the slighest’ was their reply.

Offlands
Offlands
6 years ago
Reply to  Offlands

*slightest

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago
Reply to  Offlands

Did they mean they weren’t worried about a 2nd wave happening or they just weren’t worried either way?

IanE
IanE
6 years ago
Reply to  Offlands

Yes, the 2 GPs that I know are in the same camp!

Cruella
Cruella
6 years ago
Reply to  IanE

GPs? I thought they’d be gleefully awaiting a second wave so they could take a second extended holiday!

John Smith
John Smith
6 years ago
Reply to  Cruella

I agree. The medical professional has a lot to answer for.

Hope it pisses down the entire time they’re there.

Arseholes!

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
6 years ago

While that was risible, of more concern was the ‘here and now’ of taking your face mask with you when you leave home in the same way you take your mobile, wallet and house keys. It was said in the same tone as a parent to a little kid when they leave the house for school every day – make sure you have a tissue, have you got your pencil case etc. I resent being spoken to like this by someone whose wages I pay, and who has the intellectual ability of a carrot.

scepticalsue
scepticalsue
6 years ago

That’s offensive – a carrot has far more intellectual ability.

CarrieAH
CarrieAH
6 years ago

It’s the nanny state gone mad. I hate it and just ignore anyone who speaks to me like that. I have been independent all my life and intend to stay that way. I will make my own decisions and stand or fall by them.

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2020/06/11/indonesias-hundreds-of-suspected-child-virus-deaths-highlight-danger.html?fbclid=IwAR1KnRgWToL5_IY-8lo34vIcYMN99X7nz5Q-kViFhbes524kOPV0DEgH6S4
 
“Hundreds of children in Indonesia are believed to have died from COVID-19, giving the Southeast Asian country one of the world’s highest rates of child deaths from the novel coronavirus that experts around the world say poses little danger to the young.
Pediatricians and health officials in the world’s fourth most populous country said the high number of child deaths from a disease that mostly kills the elderly was due to underlying factors, in particular malnutrition, anemia and inadequate child health facilities.”

jrsm
jrsm
6 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

In other words, they are believed to have died from COVID-19, but they died from “underlying factors, in particular malnutrition, anemia and inadequate child health facilities.”

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago
Reply to  jrsm

Yes, basically they probably wouldn’t have died otherwise.

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/10/world/asia/reopening-before-coronavirus-ends.html
 
“Some of these leaders, especially those in the developing world, said they couldn’t sustain the punishing lockdowns without risking economic catastrophe, especially for their poorest citizens. So the thinking has shifted, from commanding people to stay indoors and avoid the virus and other people at all costs, to now openly accepting some illness and death to try to limit the damage to livelihoods and to individual lives.”

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

“It’s a bit of a mess,” said Indrani Gupta, a health economist in New Delhi. “Our economy is so dependent on labor, millions would have lost their livelihoods and their lives if this lockdown went on for months and months.”
But, she added, the lockdown began too soon.
“We got it in reverse,” she said. “We shut down too quickly and it was too draconian. And I don’t think now is the time to ease up.”

tony
tony
6 years ago

Does anyone have a link to this, as pastebin have now kindly removed it. Don’t you just love free speech.
 
Slightly off topic and not funny, but this letter by an anonymous history professor at the University of California, Berkeley, taking issue with some of the claims made by the Black Lives Matter movement, as well as the uncritical way in which they’re accepted and regurgitated by American universities, is a must-read. No doubt as soon as his identity is discovered he will be subject to a mobbing and may very well lose his job.

Julian
Julian
6 years ago

They are relishing the attention

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
6 years ago

Maybe he thinks if aircraft do not use carbon fibre in their construction, the flight will be carbon free?

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago

Just perusing the Grad’s summary of the daily briefing – If I sat through the real thing, I’d have no teeth left!
 
How about this:
Q. What do you say to businesses in the south-west who are actually quite worried about it [the R value]?
Shapps says stay alert and stay at home as much as possible.
 
Shop and cafe owners will be very reassured by that advice.
Is he deliberately stupid?

Kevin
Kevin
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Yes

Tenchy
Tenchy
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

No, not deliberately. He can’t help it.

Polly816
Polly816
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

What a stupid question. Any business of worth is worried about the damage of lockdown, not about an R number for what is increasingly looking like a virus on the verge of natural extinction, either due to cross-immunity with historic common colds or some other even mroe mysterious factor.

Threepartslogan
Threepartslogan
6 years ago

This has been published today on gov.uk.
 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid19-intervention-strategies
 
Haven’t read it all yet but posting here for info….

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