The Best Thing for England is Still Britain

Anyone who thinks England would be better off dissolving the UK and going it alone is only looking at half the story, says Richard Lyon, as he mounts a spirited defence of the Union and Scotland's place in it.

8 min read

Clive Pinder’s essay in the Daily Sceptic last weekend on English independence is sharply argued and often very funny. Suppose he’s right.

Suppose the United Kingdom really has become, as he characterised it, “an exhausted multinational holding company held together by inertia, nostalgia, transfer payments and the BBC weather map”. Suppose Scotland really does vote like a Nordic social democracy, Wales like its run by public-sector socialists and Northern Ireland like a theological argument attached to a motorway network. Suppose England really does carry most of the economic weight, only to be lectured by its own governing class for the impertinence of noticing.

Suppose the diagnosis is exactly right: Pinder has pinpointed the rot accurately. He has then drawn precisely the wrong conclusion from it.

The first thing he gets wrong is the confusion of the British state with the British settlement.

The state is the political class, the supranational creep, the regulatory accretion, the judicial activism, the BBC, the Civil Service that signed off tens of billions of pandemic-era fraud and waste without anyone in particular being held to account. The settlement is the 1707 Acts of Union, the shared Crown, the common law, the Parliament, the British identity built across three centuries on top of those. The state has spent the past three decades betraying the settlement. The settlement has held up rather better than the state has — through industrial revolutions, two World Wars, the loss of empire, devolution and Brexit. Its institutions still work. Dissolving the settlement to fix the state is amputation on the theory that a missing leg is less trouble than a sore knee.

The second thing Pinder gets wrong is the confusion of a nationalist administration with a nation.

Independence has not been a majority position in Scotland for over a decade. The latest YouGov tracker puts Scottish opinion at 56% No and 44% Yes — barely moved from the 55/45 of the 2014 referendum. Support has not crossed 50% sustainably since a brief peak during the 2020 pandemic.

But even that statistic massively overstates actual support. Fewer than one in five Scottish voters backed the SNP at the 2024 General Election — about the same share of English voters who backed Labour. The Holyrood administration’s wishes are no more ‘Scotland’s wishes’ than Sir Keir Starmer’s are ‘England’s wishes’. We in Scotland are as repelled by the antics of our nationalist regional administration as anyone in England is. A determined minority would like independence; the country has voted against them every time it has been asked.

Pinder makes much of Sinn Féin, the SNP and Plaid Cymru lining up to break up the UK. Plaid has just become the largest party in the Senedd, it is true — on 35% of the vote, with Reform UK on 29% right behind it. The ‘breakup-the-UK axis’ is a Telegraph splash. Welsh politics has realigned, but the realignment is towards a Plaid-Reform polarity in which the unionist vote is bigger than the separatist vote. That is the opposite of the story Pinder is telling.

His economic case rests on three elegant slips, all of the same kind, namely: take the UK’s strongest number, attribute it to England, and count the maths as victory.

“England already accounts for roughly 85% of UK GDP,” he writes. Four paragraphs later: “84% of the UK population live” in England. The two figures are essentially the same number. A nation with 85% of the population producing 85% of the GDP is producing precisely what its population suggests. That is a population story dressed up as a productivity claim.

Gross Domestic Product per head — what each region produces, per person, in pounds — tells a different story. The UK average was £39,403. London’s in 2023 was £69,077. The North East of England’s was £28,583 — the lowest figure in the UK, below Wales’s £29,316, below Northern Ireland’s £32,944, and well below Scotland’s £37,192. England’s headline ‘lift’ over the other nations is the work of London and the South East alone. Strip those two regions out, and most English regions sit below Scotland. The “engine room of the UK” is London, and London alone. An independent England would still face precisely the same productivity divergence inside its own borders.

Pinder also informs us, with some confidence, that an independent England’s economy would be “around $3.5 trillion to $3.7 trillion”. The whole United Kingdom’s nominal GDP in 2024, on the IMF’s figures, was $3.69 trillion. England alone, on the standard 86% share, is roughly $3.18 trillion. Pinder has used the UK’s GDP as if it were England’s.

His Barnett claim is half-told too.

Public spending per head in 2023-24 — HM Treasury’s own numbers — runs to £15,371 in Northern Ireland, £14,759 in Scotland, £14,424 in Wales and £12,625 in England. These are real differentials. The reasons are mostly geographic and historical — not the one-way English subsidy Pinder’s framing implies: services cost more per head in sparsely populated rural areas; the Barnett formula sets the year-on-year change in devolved spending but inherits a pre-1979 base it does not reset; and the devolved administrations make their own spending choices on top of all that. The conservative answer is needs-based reform with fiscal accountability and a transparent Barnett successor. None of that requires partition. If you don’t believe you can reform Britain, what makes you think you could then reform England?

The real sleight in Pinder’s case is the image of an England liberated to become ‘Singapore-on-Thames’ — low-tax, deregulated, energy-realist, controlled at the borders, free of the ECHR, “rooted in Parliamentary sovereignty”.

Singapore has six million people, no NHS, no welfare state, no ECHR, and 60 years of unbroken industrial policy under a quasi-one-party state. England has 58 million people, an NHS, an ageing population, a judicial activism culture and the same political class everyone else in the UK has. The analogy is doing rhetorical work the underlying facts cannot carry.

Set that aside: every reform Pinder wants is a Westminster decision.

ECHR exit is a Westminster decision. Planning reform is a Westminster decision. Immigration control is a Westminster decision — Holyrood has no power over the borders Pinder is worried about. Corporate tax rates are set in Westminster. The fight against judicial activism is fought against UK-wide courts on UK-wide cases. Energy policy, including the ruinous Net Zero command-and-control he and I both oppose, is set in Westminster. The only obstacle to the policy programme he sketches is the political class in London, the Treasury, the Bar, the judiciary, the Civil Service and the regulators — exactly what an independent England would inherit in full and unchanged.

Pinder has correctly identified the disease. He has then proposed cutting off a perfectly serviceable Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish limb on the spurious grounds that the disease is mostly localised outside of England. Ten years of constitutional divorce is 10 years not legislating the reform agenda he says he wants. And at the end of it, the Treasury and the Bar will still be where they were.

As for “disputes over debt allocation, military assets, Trident submarines and borders” — Pinder’s parenthetical wave at the inconvenient consequences — the Trident question alone is enough to embarrass the essay. The UK’s strategic deterrent sits at Faslane because the geography of the Firth of Clyde delivers deep, sheltered, stealthy access to the GIUK gap and the North Atlantic patrol areas. There is no equivalent on the English coast. Relocating it is a decade-long project; the original Faslane build took 13 years and £1.9 billion in 1994 prices — at the time the second most expensive works project in the United Kingdom after the Channel Tunnel. Pinder treats the unwinding of all that as “financial markets dislike uncertainty”. Indeed they do.

And while we are on the subject of historical accounting: the Scottish geographic asset called the North Sea has paid into the UK exchequer for five decades. The flows have run both ways. What Britain did with that revenue — saved none of it and spent all of it, leaving the country carrying the largest peacetime national debt in its history — is a Westminster matter. The little-Englander has not earned the right to wash his hands of it.

I write this as a Scot living in Edinburgh. I am proudly Scottish, proudly British.

With under one in 10 of the UK population, Scotland supplied a remarkable share of the people who put the ‘Great’ into ‘Great Britain’: five Prime Ministers across the era when modern Britain was made, much of the imperial administration, the shock troops of our wars, and a great deal of the intellectual and industrial firepower behind Britain’s 19th-century pre-eminence.

To take but two examples. The British settlement built more than Britain. Its contribution to the European Enlightenment was substantially a Scottish one. The settlement built America too. John Witherspoon, born in East Lothian, signed the Declaration of Independence and, as president of what became Princeton, taught James Madison the architecture of checks and balances. James Wilson, born in Fife, signed both the Declaration and the Constitution. Jefferson took “unalienable rights” from Francis Hutcheson, professor of moral philosophy at Glasgow. Andrew Carnegie, born in Dunfermline, founded the American steel industry. The most powerful country on earth has Scottish foundations — and therefore British foundations.

This is not boasting and it is not Scottish exceptionalism. Nor does it deny the real grievances of English readers, who endure a steady drip of nationalist grievance-mongering from north of the border. It is, however, the historical fact that Pinder’s argument has to ignore in order to work. England is great in significant part because of Scotland’s role in making it so. The reverse holds. To frame the relationship as one of English subsidy and Celtic ingratitude is to get three centuries of British history backwards, and to abandon the next three.

There is a reason Britain is called Great Britain. The supporters of little-England separatism may end up in an England. They will not end up in a Great England. The answer to these problems is to stay joined, to work together and to keep making the case for why separatism is the creed of the small mind — on both sides of the border.

Pinder ends his essay “cheerfully, calmly, amicably”. It is a graceful close and I will return the favour.

Cheerfully, calmly, amicably — no. Or, as we say affectionately in Scotland: awa’ an bile yer heid.

Richard Lyon writes the State of Britain Substack and is the author of The Energy Trap (forthcoming).

Comments

This week across the site:

Email me alerts for this discussion
Notify of

To join in with the discussion please make a donation to the Daily Sceptic.

Profanity and abuse will be removed and may lead to a permanent ban.

19 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
clivepinder
clivepinder
3 months ago

From the Counselling Couch: A Reply to Richard

The clue, Richard, was in the title.

“The Best Thing for England Might Be the End of Britain.” Not “is.” Not “will be.” Might. That single word was doing rather a lot of work. Alas it appears to have escaped your notice entirely.

My essay was not a divorce petition. It was a session on the couples’ counselling couch. An attempt to give honest voice to how one half of a long marriage actually feels, in the hope that the other half might stop lecturing and start listening. You have responded, with considerable statistical firepower and some genuine wit, by cross-examining the therapist. 

It is, if I may say so, a category error.

You are right that nations are not merely P&L accounts. Absolutely right. Which makes it all the more puzzling that your rebuttal is almost entirely economic. The Barnett formula, GDP per capita, the IMF’s 2024 numbers. All accurate, all largely beside the point. 

Nations are held together by something the political and bureaucratic class has spent thirty years systematically dismantling. The feeling of being heard, valued, and treated as an equal partner rather than a liability to be managed.

… Read more »

Michael Sangster
Michael Sangster
3 months ago

Hugely enjoyed your essay. After three centuries of Great collaborative achievements radiating out to the benefit of much of the world, and three centuries of intermarriage causing many an English family to be half Scottish or Welsh in ancestry (like my own); separatism has always seemed the greatest folly. Resentment, the chief motivator of separatism, is corrosive and always goes ill. My wife is unionist Scottish and cheered when I read out awa’ an bile yer heid.

Richard Lyon
Richard Lyon
3 months ago

Michael – thank you for taking the time to read it. And to the glorious personal union between you and your wife – lang may yer lum reek, and ye aye hae something tae pit in the pot.

David
David
3 months ago

Pinder’s article wasn’t worth bothering with but it clearly touched a nerve. Lyon’s response is an interesting combination of, well, national pride and unionism. He’s right that the Union has benefitted both sides of the border but he can’t resist the usual crack about the Enlightenment. For sure Scotland was ahead of England in the medieval establishment of universities and it may even be that Scotland has a larger proportion of people with an IQ above 130 than England. I’m no number cruncher so somebody else will have to deal with that one. But did Scotland really contribute more to the origins and development of the European Enlightenment than any other country in Europe? And no, Scotland didn’t invent ‘inalienable rights’ – it was an old philosophical controversy long before the US constitution was written. And there’s the other comment about Scots being big in the British Empire. Thanks for that – we can point it out to the next gang of lying grifters claiming reparations.

The real issue underlying this exchange between Pinder and Lyon is hinted at by Lyon but not developed and that is what might be called ‘national character’. Lyon says he’s a proud Scot… Read more »

Richard Lyon
Richard Lyon
3 months ago
Reply to  David

David – author here. You make some very thoughtful points and I’d like to thank you for engaging with the essay and respond to some of your point.

You are correct to diagnose that Clive’s essay touched a nerve. In Scotland, we feel we have enough on our hands beating off the small-minority Scottish Nationalists with a stick. To find a rearguard assault opening to our rear from our fellow countrymen is as discouraging as it is unexpected.

On the Enlightenment: this is not the place to rehearse the history, and the point of my essay is that we don’t need to: this are our contribution as the *British*, not our contribution as the *Scots*. England gave it Newton, Locke, Priestly, Bentham. Scotland gave it Hume, Smith, Millar, Hutton, Black, Cullen, Maclaurin. The driver in Scotland was the Kirk and its drive for a “classroom in every village” so we could read the bible for oursevles. But the Union transformed the economics of Scotland and gave the resources to fund that ambition.

On a point of clarification: I didn’t claim that Hutcheson developed the concept of inalienable rights, merely that he taught it to Jefferson.

Your point on character is… Read more »

Robert Liddell
Robert Liddell
3 months ago

Great essay. Thank you

Heretic
Heretic
3 months ago

For me, two of Clive Pinder’s most important points are these:

1) “England now feels like the chap paying alimony to three ex-wives who all say he was useless.”

2) “It is difficult to build solidarity in a country that increasingly resembles an airport terminal.”

The Scottish author of this article, Richard Lyons, sounds like one of the chap’s three ex-wives whingeing because the chap wants to stop paying alimony to them all. Sounding exactly like all the Ethnic African Grifters demanding “Slavery Reparations”, he even claims with risible arrogance that “The Little Englander has not earned the right to wash his hands of it.” 

But Richard Lyons is wrong. The Little Englander HAS earned the right to wash his hands of it … ALL of it, including subsidising the Parasitic Commonwealth, with the honourable exception of our kith and kin in Australia, New Zealand and Canada.

By the way, 52% of all the Muslims in Scotland are from ONE Commonwealth country: Pakistan. So English Taxpayers are not only subsidising Pakistan with more foreign aid than the UK gives to any other country, but English Taxpayers are also subsidising Pakistani Muslims being welcomed into Scotland by the treasonous SNP. And… Read more »

kryten10
kryten10
3 months ago

Currently devolution is a one way ratchet where ever increasing devolved powers are funded in practice by English taxpayers. So both destroy the ratchet and restore the links between power and responsibility: all devolved powers must be paid for by local taxpayers. Not enough money? Then the UK both pays as a whole and the UK Parliament runs it 🙂

soundofreason
soundofreason
3 months ago
Reply to  kryten10

Not enough money? Then the UK both pays as a whole and the UK Parliament runs it

No. Not enough money? Do without until you have enough money.

JXB
JXB
3 months ago

Reality: England is the main dish, the other three are just garnish.

JXB
JXB
3 months ago

“Suppose Scotland really does vote like a Nordic social democracy…”

No it doesn’t. The Nordic model is the bulk of taxes are levied locally and spent locally supervised by locally elected politicians. It is a mutual arrangement, not a socialised one. Public services like health, education are provided by companies in the private sector.

Scotland votes for socialised, State provided services paid for out of general taxation, and administered from the centre.

GDP includes all value added to an economy in a given period – eg quarter, year. It includes all Government spending, so the more public spending the higher GDP, thus higher GDP per capita.

It’s smoke and mirrors – which any sane economist will tell you.

Government spending is funded by taxation which takes money out of the economy, reduces economic activity and makes people poorer. It is also funded by borrowing which ultimately is taxation, and therefore over-states value added because it is debt… a cost.

The assumption made is that the value of output from Government spending is at least equal to input. It is not.

There is more Government spending per capita in Scotland so of course GDP per… Read more »

transmissionofflame
transmissionofflame
3 months ago
Reply to  JXB

The Nordic countries have outstanding human capital, which they are to varying degrees in the process of diluting and squandering. Scotland perhaps not so much.

EppingBlogger
EppingBlogger
3 months ago

“HM Treasury’s own numbers — runs to £15,371 in Northern Ireland, £14,759 in Scotland, £14,424 in Wales and £12,625 in England. These are real differentials. The reasons are mostly geographic and historical — not the one-way English subsidy Pinder’s framing implies”

Oh yes they are!

Unless we retake full national UK inderpendence England will always be stuck with these costs. I fear that one solution mught be to call Scotland’s bluff. (Wales and NI are not “countries” or “nations”. At some point agree with SNP to hold a refeendum on Scottish full independence. Make clear exactly what that will mean and have the vote.

JXB
JXB
3 months ago
Reply to  EppingBlogger

Yes. The UK is a single currency zone and an optimal currency zone – unlike the €uro zone which isn’t.

Without going into all that makes an optimal currency zone, what the UK’s has that the €uro zone doesn’t, is transfer of money from richer parts to poorer parts, via the central treasury to provide public services so that there is no disparity between the different parts with respect to the services delivered.

For example: State pensions – money is transferred from richer regions via the Treasury to ensure everyone gets the same according to their entitlement where ever they are.

During the €uro crisis post-2008, Greece for example couldn’t pay its public workers or pay pensions, because it did not have the cash, the markets would not lend or would only lend at exorbitant rates, and there was no mechanism for money to be transferred from wealthier parts of the zone to poorer.

The point being: of course England subsidises the others, and the richer South subsidises the poorer northern regions.

Heretic
Heretic
3 months ago
Reply to  JXB

But is your final sentence really true now, that the supposedly “richer South” subsidises the “Poorer North”, I wonder? Or is that yet another Communist Globalist lie that we have all swallowed without questioning it? And who made the rule that the rich should subsidise the poor? Charity is supposed to be voluntary.

transmissionofflame
transmissionofflame
4 months ago

“Small mind”, “Little England”. Hardly “graceful”. Yeah maybe I have a small mind and am a Little Englander. I don’t care. Wales and Scotland seem to want socialism, England less so. I don’t want socialism, so happier without Wales and Scotland – but as I posted last time, it won’t happen and I would feel sorry for Welsh and Scottish people who also don’t want socialism.

transmissionofflame
transmissionofflame
4 months ago

Also Wales and Scotland are not regions like parts of England- they are separate countries with their own legislatures

Hound of Heaven
Hound of Heaven
4 months ago

At the moment in broad daylight England is being invaded on its south coast where a warm welcome awaits. So much easier when the sun shines.

DJOS
DJOS
4 months ago

Really enjoyed this, thanks. Yes, what binds us together far outweighs any partisan/nationalistic spat.

Thank you for reading. Please help us keep the Daily Sceptic going by becoming a donor.