SAGE Scientist Makes the Wrong Inference on Masks

A SAGE scientist has claimed that the case for masks became "hugely stronger" when we learned that Covid spreads via airborne particles. But this doesn't make sense, and it's the opposite of what Fauci once said.

3 min read

A few weeks ago, the Guardian published an article in which various ‘experts’ revealed what they got wrong during the pandemic. Anyone hoping to read ‘lockdown – I was wrong on lockdown’ will be disappointed, although Professor Allyson Pollock of Newcastle University did admit she should have spoken out against school closures.

Our old friend Neil Ferguson was humble enough to list three things he got wrong, although none of them, strangely, makes any reference to Sweden. Recall that Ferguson’s team forecast up to 90,000 deaths in Sweden without mitigation. Yet two years later, the official count stands at only 16,000.

You might assume this would have led Ferguson to revise his beliefs concerning the efficacy of lockdown. After all, his model made a clear prediction concerning, and that prediction simply failed to materialise. Alas, no. All three of his self-confessed errors concern relatively minor details of epidemiological modelling.

Another familiar name among the Guardian’s line up is Devi Sridhar – chair of global public health at the University of Edinburgh. Yet once again, her big admission suggests no real updating of beliefs on her part.

Sridhar previously advocated ‘Zero Covid’ – something that was never tenable in a large, dense, highly connected country like the U.K. But the wrongness of her ‘Zero Covid’ stance isn’t what she wants to own up to.

Instead, Sridhar feels that she overestimated how willing Britons would be to comply with Korea-style contact tracing, which involved tracking people’s movements via GPS. She presumably believes that contract tracing is what made the difference in Korea, even though Japan achieved the same outcomes by doing nothing.

But put Ferguson and Sridhar to one side. The most egregious paragraph in the article is the one under Professor Susan Michie’s name. Here’s what she had to say:

Early on, my reading was that the evidence on the effectiveness of face masks in community settings was equivocal. The emphasis on droplet transmission raised a concern that infected people may touch their face masks and then touch surfaces, thus providing a transmission route … When evidence showed that the major route for transmission was via aerosol rather than droplet, the case for masks became hugely stronger.

I don’t know about you, but I’d say Michie has it entirely backwards. If the major route for transmission was via droplets, then masking would make sense. After all, masks can actually stop droplets. What they can’t stop is tiny airborne particles, which simply go through or around them. Here’s what Fauci said in a leaked email from February of 2020:

The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through the material. It might, however, provide some slight benefit in keep out gross droplets if someone coughs or sneezes on you.

So Michie drew precisely the wrong inference. When it became clear that Covid spreads via aerosols rather than droplets, the case for masks became hugely weaker.

While getting scientists to reflect on their mistakes is a useful exercise, not all of those to whom the Guardian spoke have really grappled with what went wrong. We can debate exactly how much effect masks and lockdowns have, but it’s clearly less – a lot less – than we were led to believe. Will the ‘experts’ ever admit this?

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202 Comments
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hadenoughcrap
hadenoughcrap
4 years ago

Does anyone think that all the bs that SAGE has spewed out comes from a government who are mostly useless and the few that aren’t have very little say. The orders come from way above these peons. The best thing would be to get rid of SAGE and Whitty and Valance. I would like to see completely independent experts who don’t have any ties to the pharmaceutical companies. People who put public health first. As it is governments are dancing to the tune of the WEF, the UN and billionaires and their funded NGO’s.

DevonBlueBoy
DevonBlueBoy
4 years ago

In what universe is Michie defined as a scientist? Behavioural Psychology is more akin to English Literature than science; it values opinions over empirical evidence

Martin Frost
Martin Frost
4 years ago

During the two year panic, I never saw Ferguson, Michie or Shridha debate their ideas once with scientists who took a different view. They had no need to as the media treated them with such reverence. Zero Covid was and remains an extremist ideology. Inaccurate modelling led to unnecessary shutdowns and muzzle wearing has become the garment of choice for many people. The ideas of these three individuals did real and lasting harm to our society. They became darlings of the liberal elite. Any pretence of journalistic balance at the Guardian went out of the window. Alistair Hetherington must be turning in his grave.

sskinner
sskinner
4 years ago

“While getting scientists to reflect on their mistakes is a useful exercise,…”
Scientists? I thought a scientist was someone that used scientific methods on top of observations to establish truths.
And… just because someone studied science it doesn’t make them a scientist, any more than someone that studied music at a music college becomes a musician.

annicx
annicx
4 years ago

Michie would be pro-mask, looking like the missing link she probably thinks it increases her chances…

wantok87
wantok87
4 years ago

Michie’s is a Psychologist who had neither the education or experience to be commenting on the effectiveness of masks. We have given the like of these irrelevant individuals the power over our lives. They need to be held to account for the damaged they caused.The only aspect that masks did effectively suppress was the truth

AHotston
AHotston
4 years ago

Ordinary employees go through regular evidence-based appraisals to review their performance. SAGE “experts” should be subjected to the same. If it was done properly very few of them would have their contracts renewed.

wantok87
wantok87
4 years ago
Reply to  AHotston

We need a Star Chamber of Skeptics – who can hold them to account.

Robert Liddell
Robert Liddell
4 years ago

Michie does, of course, seem to be quite stupid

annicx
annicx
4 years ago

Guardian. ‘Nuff said- stop reading.

CovidisCommunism
CovidisCommunism
4 years ago

I am someone who feels anger seeing mask wearers I cannot stand their awful flithy cloths whoever wants to cover up their face is deranged I have never seen so many compliance in my 29 Year life, . I am depressed seeing people no longer want freedom and seem so willingly to give it up for a disease which affects the obese and elderly, and that so many
of my fellow citizens chose to remain ignorant and will not read any information except BBC Sky News , Channel 4 and will not research Bitchute , and Conservative Woman, I try to not look at mask wearers now in the street they just disgust me and fill me with rage.

They ruined our lives and took away our freedoms they did not have to support the lockdown , they could have said no to more lockdowns they could have rioted and said no too masks instead my fellow Citizen’s appear too love lockdowns think covid is the only thing people die from above suicide cancer diabetes and want constant vaccines, it appears most do not want families the birth rate is falling I never see a English woman with three… Read more »

sskinner
sskinner
4 years ago

What about the elderly gentleman in Ukraine that was run over by a tank while driving his car? It’s excellent that the old guy is OK as the body of the car did not crush. But, he was wearing a mask on his own in the car? What will be his view of risk now?

annicx
annicx
4 years ago

Good to see that not all under 30s are virtue signalling communists!

Dodderydude
Dodderydude
4 years ago

Michie makes a lot of wrong inferences. I recall her being interviewed by Deborah Cohen on a Newsnight special about 18 months ago (?), via Zoom of course. She was asked what evidence there was that masks worked. Her answer, bearing in mind she is purportedly an intelligent evaluator of evidential data, was to say that “the numbers of positive ‘cases’ being found had gone down since masks had been worn” thus proving they worked. Simple, isn’t it, when you’re an expert.

JudyRobinson
JudyRobinson
4 years ago

If science can’t be questioned it’s not science anymore. It’s propaganda. They want to rip on people for taking Ivermectin. I researched and saw the evidence on the internet. Research papers are on the internet for those who wants to see. Top respected world doctors are being under defamation by MSM and vaccine manufacturers. I won’t back down recommeding IVM. You can get yours by visiting https://ivmpharmacy.com

BillRiceJr
BillRiceJr
4 years ago

I’ve been wondering how much the people of the world have collectively spent on masks.

Here’s a rough stab at this in America … Let’s say half the citizens in America (167 million people) dutifully wore a mask not for the entire pandemic (nearly two years) but only for half of the pandemic.

That would be 167 million mask-wearing Americans times 365 days. (This thought exercise assumes most Americans wore a disposable mask and changed them out every day). Math: 167 million mask-wearing people times 365 days of mask wearing = 60,955,000,000 (60.955 Billion) masks!

Of course, plenty of people probably have washable, re-usable designer masks, so the figure might be lower … but, then again, it might be higher because I’m sure some people wore masks daily for two years …. and some people no doubt wore more than one mask per day. But this is my ballpark mask figure (and for a long time people did have to wear masks at the ballpark).

Next question: How much does an average mask actually cost? Who knows? They probably cost more today than they did two years ago because inflation is much higher today. I’m going to guess that the… Read more »

vivaldi
vivaldi
4 years ago
Reply to  BillRiceJr

It’s good getting posts from across The Pond….keep ’em coming.

ellie-em
ellie-em
4 years ago

Some scientists really aren’t very clever at all and shouldn’t bother getting up out of bed each day. That would make life much better for the rest of us.

wantok87
wantok87
4 years ago
Reply to  ellie-em

Michie isn’t a Scientist she is a psychologist – Ferguson a Maths/physics graduate- like most is SAGE totally out of touch with treating diseases.

paul smith
paul smith
4 years ago

On topic, and well worth the investment, if only for the chucklesome ‘Ozymaskias’…
https://www.aier.org/article/ozymaskias/

Jabby Mcstiff
Jabby Mcstiff
4 years ago

What is there to deal with – you are a slag and you will be treated like a slag. All perfectly fair.

Star
Star
4 years ago

The mainstream media in Britain are pushing for a “people’s” nuclear war.

Here they are, doing it:

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-crisis-activist-breaks-down-in-tears-as-she-confronts-boris-johnson-about-lack-of-no-fly-zone-12554760

“Ukraine crisis: Activist breaks down in tears as she confronts Boris Johnson about lack of no-fly zone”







“Daria Kaleniuk confronts Boris Johnson at a news conference, in Poland’s capital Warsaw, as she explains how her family and work colleagues remained at threat from the Russian invasion. She says Ukrainians are ‘desperately asking for the West to protect our sky’.”

Listen. Poland is in NATO and it is already in a no fly zone for Russian warplanes.

The text may say “Poland” but the mugs who soak up rubbish from the media will associate this “young woman sobs” story with Ukraine because it’s Ukraine that is mentioned in the headline.

A NATO or British or US no-fly zone over Ukraine would mean World War 3 – a war between NATO and Russia which would turn nuclear fast.

It would mean shooting down Russian planes and also bombing the Russian airbases they fly from inside Russia itself so as to “protect” NATO pilots. It also means Russia shooting down the western planes and bombing the bases they fly from whether they are in Poland or… Read more »

RW
RW
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

A moronic airhead, more likely. She remembers no fly zones from the past and hence, she wants one. But this is not about some relatively small and technologically rather backwards Arabian country but about a huge country a war is presently being fought in, including aerial warfare. Assuming the NATO had the necessary forces for a huge offensive operation in the area – and I’m certain it hasn’t – all it could do was intervene in the ongoing war on the side of Ukraine in order to achieve NATO/ Ukraine air superiority, ie, become an ordinary combatant.

This doesn’t necessarily mean WW3 as the fighting might well stay localized in Ukraine (as Putin is already struggling to achieve his objectives there, he could probably do without opening another front) but there’s no way the NATO can just declare a no fly zone over Ukraine by fiat and enforce that easily and effectively due to being the only significant air power in the war theatre.

This is just an example of how thoroughly stupid and clueless most people are and how they’re nevertheless concinved that their opinions on pretty much any topic must make sense because they’re theirs. Eg, their opinions… Read more »

Star
Star
4 years ago
Reply to  RW

Seeking to establish NATO air superiority would require bombing the airbases in Russia that the Russian planes fly from.

If NATO bombs Russia, Russia will respond by attacking NATO countries – perhaps at first “only” Poland or Estonia.

RW
RW
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

Seeking to establish NATO air superiority would require bombing the airbases in Russia that the Russian planes fly from.

As the Germans found out to their own detriment during the so-called battle of Britain, bombing airbases is a pretty useless exercise unless as tactical support for ground forces operating in the area (and ultimtatively, taking those air bases to stop them from being repaired and used again).

Establishing a no fly zone over Ukraine would require air superiority there, not random military operations in Russia.

Star
Star
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

The wretched Kaleniuk is described as the executive director of the “Anti-Corruption Action Centre civil society organisation”. What have “anti-corruption” and “civil society” got to do with bombing Russia? CIA all the way.

Star
Star
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

More on the Anti-Corruption Action Centre:

Supervisory Board:

Oleksa Shalaiskyi – Сo-founder and Chief Editor of “Nashi Groshi” project, “investigative journalist”

Francis Fukuyama – “American philosopher, political economist, publicist, and professor at Stanford University”

Giovanni Kessler -” Famous Italian lawyer and prosecutor. He specializes in tackling fraud, financial crimes and corruption.” He was until 2017 the Director-General of the European Anti-Fraud Office OLAF, a department of the European Commission.

Oliver Bullough – “British journalist and writer. He makes journalist investigations of corruption and financial crimes, he is awarded numerous prestigious awards”

Karen A. Greenaway – “Former FBI Supervisory Special Agent at International Corruption Unit. World expert on investigating transborder organized crime, corruption and money laundering”

Star
Star
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

Daria Kaleniuk works with “PEP.ORG.UA”

https://antac.org.ua/en/about-us/

http://pep.org.ua/

PEP calls for a NATO no-fly zone over Ukraine and for kicking Russia off the UN Security Council. (Russia cannot be kicked off the UNSC, but this may soon become a pumped-up meme in the West anyway.)

“PEP” means “Politically Exposed Persons”, mostly who invest big piles of money without letting the light in, including offshore – presumably especially those among them who aren’t friendly with the US or Israel.

Star
Star
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

A “permanent” member of the SC means precisely that. What the US, its brown noser satellite Britain, and France could do is stop participating, but that’s different. Russia cannot be expelled. It’s not a f***ing gentlemen’s club.

Cecil B
Cecil B
4 years ago

Another football fan gone too soon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-60570620

Or not? as the article makes no mention of his age. There is no information at all on the internet as to how old he was

Jabby Mcstiff
Jabby Mcstiff
4 years ago

You wear it because you like the feeling of someone elses hand on your face. Messing and fucking with you. We are movng into serious times we can’t just piss about for evermore. The more serious of us will need to get together.

annicx
annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  Jabby Mcstiff

Count me in- truly sick and tired of virtue-signalling lefties telling me what to do. Or trying.

Jabby Mcstiff
Jabby Mcstiff
4 years ago

Don’t get drawn in. The whole thing is black magic. Don’t even discuss the tactics outside of special groups.I see it clearly and it is just cheap black magic.

Jabby Mcstiff
Jabby Mcstiff
4 years ago

They thought that they could usher in a left wing agenda on the back of a perfect excuse, an infectious disease – my health is your health etc. It might be hard to believe but people in other countries envy us because of the removal of restrictions. We achieved that because we as the English still have the spiritual sense to say no. We should exult our nation for that. We may be a rag tag bunch but still we don’t let anyone fuck with us.

MrTea
MrTea
4 years ago
Reply to  Jabby Mcstiff

I think it was more down to Boris royally screwing it all up.
Boris tried to cover for the covid corruption his chum Owne Paterson was involved in (probably because Boris and other Tories are involved in far worse).
Forcing all Tory MPs to vote change the rules to protect Paterson faced such a public backlash that Boris was forced to stand down, this angered his back benchers.
Then hot on the heels of the Paterson debacle the series of leaks showing that Boris was partying whilst we were in lockdown.
This made the winter lockdown 2021 impossible to impose which allowed the SAGE predictions to be proven to be complete balls.
That is why our restrictions are being lifted.

Jabby Mcstiff
Jabby Mcstiff
4 years ago
Reply to  MrTea

Probably but I am talking about the left wing support for these insane directives. As if a phoenix of purified statism would arise from the ashes, If you pay any attention at all to the realm of economic affairs you see where the real land lies.We are surrounded by naivete and ignorance on a level that perhaps we weren’t aware of.

Moist Von Lipwig
Moist Von Lipwig
4 years ago
Reply to  MrTea

Correct. Kim Jong Johnson does either what he thinks will be popular or what he will be unpopular for not doing.

He delayed ‘freedom day’ on false information then, scared of the backlash, went ahead with it.

He was all set to lock down again in December, the great fat communist fraud.

RW
RW
4 years ago
Reply to  Jabby Mcstiff

The nonsense is certainly still in full swing in Germany, with forced use of N95/ FFP2 masks everywhere and the so-called health minister calling for mandatory vaccination to prevent the coming COVID apocalypse next autumn.

RW
RW
4 years ago

Michie is a so-called behavrioural scientist, ie, she isn’t a scientist at all, just someone who comes up with unverifiable, fancy theories re: Why do people behave in a certain way and equally fancy, equally unverifiable theories how the behaviour of people can be influenced by targetted communication. In other words, she’s a self-professed witch researching how to curse or otherwise enchant people with powerful words (I’m meaning this absolutely literally).

Her opinions on medical matters are of no concern to anyone. Even when these are – unsurprisingly – that diseases can be prevented by wearing suitable talismans in a suitable way.

The only real question regarding any COVID experts is really just Stupid enough to believe in his own theories or bought?

sophie123
sophie123
4 years ago
Reply to  RW

I think you will find that she is, in fact, a complete waste of skin.

MrTea
MrTea
4 years ago

It seems increasingly likely to me that the very foundation of virology is simply wrong.
The evidence to show that super tiny particles can waft around in the air, be inhaled and then cause disease is lacking.
For example with sars-cov-2 we are in the most advanced scientific age yet they have never isolated an actual example of the claimed virus from a real world sample, their claimed isolates are only a computer generated fantasy.
Also they have argued and blustered over the concept of asymptomatic transmission, whilst evidence for symptomatic transmission is just assumed, but where is the actual scientific evidence that one person can spread sars-cov-2 from coughing or sneezing etc?

Moderate Radical
Moderate Radical
4 years ago

If the major route for transmission was via droplets, then masking would make sense. After all, masks can actually stop droplets. What they can’t stop is tiny airborne particles, which simply go through or around them.

Sorry Noah, this is muddle-headed. Grant for the sake of argument that the virus spreads via droplets (how one can with a straight face claim to know that it spreads only via droplets (which was the claim) is beyond me, but I digress). Leaving aside the fact that asymptomatics do not spread virus and thus ‘mass mask wearing’ still would not be justified, the clue is in the language. It spreads via droplets. This is crucial. If a virus particle is piggybacking on a droplet, then once that droplet evaporates after being stuck on a damp face covering, where do you think the particle goes? The virus particle remains. So, among other things, the wearer can then send forth the particle out/back out into the population by coughing, sneezing, or even talking, or they can draw in the particle by breathing in. Thus the face covering plays a mediatory role in the transmission of the virus, and so, even granting the ‘droplets’ view, the… Read more »

MikeHaseler
MikeHaseler
4 years ago

The virus particle remains. So, among other things, the wearer can then send forth the particle out/back out into the population by coughing, sneezing, or even talking, or they can draw inthe particle by breathing in.

You got it! Once the virus dries on the mask, any movement of said mask or even air flow through the mask, can create a fine dust that, unlike the original large droplets that would have quickly dropped to the floor, the fine dust sits in the air for long periods ready to be breathed in my anyone whether they have a mask or not.

Ron Smith
Ron Smith
4 years ago
Reply to  MikeHaseler

A point made to dellingpod by Yeadon back in 2020.

JohnK
JohnK
4 years ago

Those who promote the use of such things are relying on the lack of knowledge by the majority, but anyone who understands how tiny the compounds under suspicion are, and know a bit about the size of the filters (or pretend filers), would soon understand that they are junk, at best.

The existence of other objects in the air, humidity, ionisation etc probably have an effect on the transmission of items as small as viruses (say between 50 and 100 nm maximum).

mariawarmth
mariawarmth
4 years ago

I remember reading on Mike Yeadon’s and Robin Monotti’s telegram posts that the masks nebulises the air born virus particles, resulting in separating clumps of virus into the smaller and singular amounts. Therefore the virus travels in the breath, deeper in to the airways and respiratory areas, rather than getting stuck in the nose or throat . This makes the virus location deeper in the body to be more dangerous!!
So NO to masks nebulising the virus particles !

steve_z
steve_z
4 years ago
Reply to  mariawarmth

I always assumed it would nebulise gob on the way out and make transmission worse.

Jabby Mcstiff
Jabby Mcstiff
4 years ago

You have read these studies whereby large numbers of people seem to find human beings in masks more attractive. What on earth does that say about a large number of people. For me the very essence of life is seeing every expression on someone’s face. Life would be much diminished without this language. There is an impulse and a drive towards the corpse and the grave these days. We are the opposite tendency. We love life even if it is fucked up and we know that out of this horror show new and better things will manifest. And not in the way distant future because the reckoning is now.

mariawarmth
mariawarmth
4 years ago
Reply to  Jabby Mcstiff

I find men in masks with their children feeble and unattractive.

annicx
annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  mariawarmth

Really? That might explain my utter failure to pull…I thought modern women liked to see men showing they cared, and wringing their hands covered with gloop. Honestly- women….

MikeHaseler
MikeHaseler
4 years ago
Reply to  Jabby Mcstiff

I am very attracted to the idea of putting politicians & journalists in muzzles … so long as they are locked in and totally sound tight.

Dodgy Geezer
Dodgy Geezer
4 years ago

Sridhar previously advocated ‘Zero Covid’ – something that was never tenable in a large, dense, highly connected country like the U.K.

 ‘Zero Covid’ is quite tenable in a large, dense, highly connected country like the U.K – IF:

1 – the illness only has a human resevoir – no animals can get infected
2 – the vaccine is effective at preventing transmission of the illness

Neither of these things are true, of course. In particular, the vaccine DID NOT WORK – a point which needs to be stressed at every opportunity….

Ron Smith
Ron Smith
4 years ago
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer

And it needs to be deadly enough so the benefits outweigh the harms.

MrTea
MrTea
4 years ago

‘When it became clear that Covid spreads via aerosols rather than droplets, the case for masks became hugely weaker.;

What was the scientific evidence used to prove that claim to be true?

Dodgy Geezer
Dodgy Geezer
4 years ago
Reply to  MrTea

We have no definite comprehensive evidence about the spread of ANY viral infection. What we have are educated guesses – based on knowledge that virions can travel on aerosols, and that intriducing enough virions into a respiratory orifice can result in the virus infecting someone…

MrTea
MrTea
4 years ago
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer

‘What we have are educated guesses – based on knowledge that virions can travel on aerosols’

Could you name any of the scientific papers that establish this?

As I have tried to comprehend the basics of virology the more I have come to the view that the whole discipline is based on guesswork and make believe.

Very lucrative guesswork and make believe for virologists and pharma.

Old Rosie
Old Rosie
4 years ago

Most of the SAGE scientists didn’t make the mistake of appearing on television or in the press coming out with rubbish they knew was wrong (or suspected could be wrong). They left that to scientifically illiterate psychologists and modellers.
Now they can claim they were misinterpreted or the nuances of their opinions weren’t communicated fully.
They failed as scientists and human beings but did reasonably well at ass covering.

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