The tougher Covid restrictions in Scotland and Wales over winter and throughout the pandemic may not have been worth it as there is no evidence they have “really done very much”, scientists have said. MailOnline has more.
Nicola Sturgeon is still yet to commit to a date for ending work from home guidance, despite England dumping the advice last week, while Mark Drakeford is refusing to lift the highly-controversial ‘rule of six’ for another four days.
Both nations resorted to tougher Covid curbs than England early on in the pandemic, and kept people living under economically-crippling curbs for longer.
But experts told MailOnline they could not see a “huge amount of difference” in the cumulative death rates between England and the rest of the U.K.
And they argued Omicron waves panned out similarly across the home nations, even though Downing St slipped through on relatively few rules.
This is despite Scotland cancelling New Year’s Eve celebrations and Mr Drakeford accusing England of being a “global outlier” for Boris Johnson’s gamble to adopt no extra measures. Ms Sturgeon said yesterday Scotland’s tougher festive curbs were “worth it”, arguing they kept infection rates below levels south of the border.
Latest statistics from the Department of Health show England saw the lowest Covid infection rate over the Christmas period, even though it was leading the way until December 23rd.
This is despite No 10 refusing to cave in to demands for lockdown. Instead only ‘Plan B’ was introduced, which saw work from home guidance reimposed, face masks in public places and controversial vaccine passports required for nightclubs and other large indoor venues.
SAGE advisers say the Omicron wave fizzled out on its own because of behavioural changes that led to people being more cautious, as opposed to natural immunity causing the outbreak to peak. …
Scotland was quick to impose tighter curbs in December as the nation reeled over the arrival of the Omicron variant, which policymakers feared would spark a big wave in hospitalisations.
About a week after the first case was confirmed, Scottish health chiefs started advising the public not to attend Christmas parties – unlike their counterparts in England.
And as concern over its spread ramped up, Scots were then told not to gather with more than three households and supermarkets asked to impose a one-way system in an echo of the worst of the pandemic.
Imposing ever harsher curbs, Ms Sturgeon then ordered night clubs to close for three weeks and called off public gatherings for New Year’s Eve.
Wales trod a similar path, bringing in a raft of restrictions on Boxing Day that saw sporting events played behind closed doors, the ‘rule of six’ return in pubs, cinemas and restaurants, and nightclubs shuttered.
Mr Drakeford also brought back the two-metre social distancing rule in public places and offices.
Northern Ireland closed nightclubs from December 26th and even prohibited dancing in pubs and restaurants. They also reimposed table service.
For comparison, England only went as far as ‘Plan B’ – which included making face masks compulsory in indoor public places and bringing in vaccine passports for larger venues. No10 also pivoted back to advising people to work from home wherever possible.
But ministers never went as far as calling off New Year’s Eve celebrations, or bringing back tighter Covid curbs such as the ‘rule of six’, despite calls from some quarters.
Despite evidence that the curbs had made little difference on the trajectory of the Omicron wave, some scientists said they still appeared to be worth it.
Professor Gary McLean, an immunologist at London Metropolitan University, said: “I do think it was worth it, based on the unknown factor of Omicron. It’s too easy to look back with hindsight and say England got it right.
“There was too much unknown about Omicron at the time the measures were put in place… I think England got lucky.”
Professor Paul Hunter, an infectious diseases expert at the University of East Anglia, said: “It is difficult to see any evidence that tougher restrictions in Scotland actually had an impact over and above what we were seeing in England.”
In another sign tougher restrictions were not needed, England’s cumulative Covid death rate – the total number of fatalities per 100,000 people – still trails behind that of Wales.
This is despite Wales for instance imposing a circuit-breaker lockdown in late October and bringing in the five-mile rule asking people not to travel further than this distance from their home.
Scotland has also been tougher with its Covid restrictions, keeping face masks in place on public transport for weeks longer than England, while Northern Ireland took the longest to start easing the third lockdown.
Dr Simon Clarke, a microbiologist at Reading University, said: “The different restrictions between the nations have not made a huge amount of difference (in terms of Covid deaths).
“They are all in the same ball park of deaths per capita. It does not suggest that tougher restrictions that Wales or Scotland have put in place have really done very much.”
Disappointing that SAGE is still refusing to recognise that surges naturally peak and decline owing to the development of (variant and season specific) herd immunity, rather than “behaviour change”. This is why their modelling is always wrong: they make poor assumptions and don’t learn from what actually happens. As for Professor McLean’s “England got lucky” – what is that supposed to mean, and would Prof. McLean care to point to the area of immunology this hypothesis falls under?
Worth reading in full.


Discussion
Comments
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1945 Half the French population claimed to have been in the Resistance
2022 Half the UK population claim to not have believed the government’s Sage advisors & were against the lockdown restrictions. Scales are belatedly falling from eyes.
I rather suspect the low infection rates in England over the festive season was due to the English being so busy enjoying themselves that they couldn’t be arsed testing
If science can’t be questioned it’s not science anymore. It’s propaganda. They want to rip on people for taking Ivermectin. I researched and saw the evidence on the internet. Research papers are on the internet for those who wants to see. Top respected world doctors are being under defamation by MSM and vaccine manufacturers. I won’t back down recommeding IVM. You can get yours by visiting https://ivmpharmacy.com
Tougher restrictions have messed with our heads, just like ‘rational’s’.
“There was too much unknown about Omicron at the time the measures were put in place… I think England got lucky.”
Only if you choose to ignore all the information supplied by South Africa!
Professor McLean: “England got lucky”
What sort of Professor is this, a Professor of Hilarity, of the Absurd?
I completely understand why they hate England but for fucks sake this is not the way. I get the left wing view that a contagion provides the perfect excuse for socialisation of everything.Yo7u have to be wiser then that. England is a bitch but globalism is much worse.
It is absurd and futile to even comment on these statistics given that they have been used in a way I never thought possible before the last two years. That statements could be issued forth which when examined with superficial scrutiny contained no truth value whatsoever and yet they became part of the zeitgeist. If you study occultism you will become aware of the idea of egregores. Egregores are in a sense thought forms but they can become much more than this when they spread like a contagion and can even manifest in physical form. There are two impoertant subjects that aren’t taught in school – occultism and law.
This should be on every headline!
“We will keep kicking you until you can prove, using our figures, that kicking you is harmful.”
Even my (slightly) conciliatory comment has been removed. We’ve all been too mean today.
Oh no it hasn’t there it is. Sorry.
Where are all the comments going? It said there were 148 when I logged on, now 147, but I can only see 8.
They’ve all been sent to Hammersmith Police Station for analysis.
Comments are vanishing faster than Boris Johnsons wives.
I think “rational” has achieved his objective of disrupting the conversation here.
Nay, it won’t be “rational” that achieves his objective. Rather, it will be all the halfwits on here that continuously interacts with him that will achieve his objective for him.
Unbelievably, they just kept on feeding him. No matter what type of inane sneering crap he posts, they just queue up to respond to him.
If Lefty teachers take screenshots of how easily the witless “rational” has led the commenters on this thread into making fools of themselves, these Lefty teachers will be able to put together a wonderful PowerPoint presentation that displays to their students how dumb Conservative people are.
This happens with Breitbart News and The Gateway Pundit in the US. The comment’s threads on these two online news sites are usually filled to the brim with utter half-witted, illiterate morons.
The US Lefty teachers show their young students presentations of these illiterate moronic commenters, and the students then form their opinions of all Conservative news sites based on the stupidity of these commenters.
The Gateway Pundit feeds this further, due to most of its main articles being as grammatically sound as what might be written by a 5-year-old.
If “rational” had went on a Left news site… Read more »
I get your frustration.
But for some players on this site, abusively dismissing ‘rational’ is a proof that we are in fact the irrational scum they’d like everyone to believe.
There’s no way to police interactions or exclude all ‘unsympathetic’ contributors without becoming self-defeating as ‘sceptics’ (I don’t actually identify as a ‘sceptic’ anyway).
Sometimes there is benefit from drawing people into a conversation.
Sometimes, some people on DS behave in a schizoid manner, and lash out at others, or merely display tedious pomposity. While we can’t control ‘rational’s’ actions (unless DS bans him), shouldn’t we be a bit more personal and considerate to each other, or to anyone who comes on here?
We don’t just want to say and do the same thing over and over again every single day, do we? Nor to become a cult of arrogant conformist ‘nonconformists’.
Agree 100%.
Lucky you: I just see 2!
p.s. Wasn’t there a Star Trek (2nd gen) story like this, with the doctor’s world just getting smaller and smaller?!
Moderator here – we seem to have a tech hitch, we’re aware of it thanks and are trying to sort it out
Same here, 140 odd comments missing.
I’m so glad I’ve been too busy today to get sucked into the troll thread! If ‘rational’ weren’t an obvious troll, it would indeed be useful to have some of the ideas and assumptions on our side of the argument challenged. But this would need to be done in a mutually respectful way, not “You are all idiots, I have done my own analysis and it is right and you are all wrong” kind of way. That just gets an eye roll emoji from me 🙄. It’s not how adults debate things, especially in this complex, emotive and nuanced subject. Aunty Jen was the same, as was fon. Maybe they’re all the same person/team. It’s quite telling that such a well-known site doesn’t have any, well, rational, opposition.
It’s telling that if they are gov infiltrators, their handler(s) haven’t thought about changing tactics.
That suggests we are indeed correct, and they have no truth or valid correction to offer, in a palatable form.
The only reason we weren’t in much stricter lockdown was because fatty Johnson got in trouble over the Owen Paterson corruption and his party lifestyle.
But will all this info be taken up by the msm?
No thought not
How does the resident cultist troll explain the French situation? Or do you convieniently not have data on that so cant comment.
He’s been cancelled. Well, moderated.
The resident troll in on here because A-holes like you continuedly feed him.
Oh im sorry, i forgot to ask you whether its ok if i reply to him. jog on. i will write whatever i like within reason. A troll like him goes through every comment and makes a snarky, nonsense replies. If you dont want to pull them up and make them look daft then thats up to you. I however do.
Judging by the shameless lack of effort you put into your punctuation, I suspect “rational” and you could be very best buddies. And you’d both find common ground wherever you’d traipse.
Bah, I’ve just transgressed this adage: “Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
Now people might not know which of us is which.
I think i will file that comment under pompous clueless pr1ck I find those who comment about others punctuation are distinctly lacking in areas that count This is a bloody forum not the front page of a newspaper
Why were you scared to spell prick in the strict sense, exactly? Do you suffer from trypanophobia?
in other news – Norway scraps all COVID entry requirements except tests
https://www.thelocal.no/20220125/norway-to-scrap-quarantine-for-all-travellers-what-you-need-to-know/
do not feed the ir-rational tr0ll
Meaning…
Don’t present your weak arguments…. You’ll get crushed with logic and facts.
No, you’ll just bombard people with spam.
Good morning Nutcase.
At time of writing “rational” has posted 35 of the 189 comments on this article. That’s a whopping 35 percent of the comments so far on this thread that have been made by a chap that weirdly has chosen the misnomer “rational” as his handle.
This percentage alone points to fairly severe mental illness.
And every one of his comments have been ridiculed, laughed-at and shown to be rubbish and self-contradictory. But this doesn’t deter “rational” in any way, shape or form.
There’s an interesting reason behind “rational’s” burst of inane and attention seeking comments this morning. It’s got to do with the moon, the full moon, that is.
In studies done in prisons and psychiatric hospitals it was found that full moons do actually influence people with mental health issues. All nutters, though, were not only affected on the day of the full moon that lasted for a few days thereabouts. Some had massive personality shifts that began just before the full moon and lasted for days afterwards.
For quite a few, though, the effects of the full moon only kicked in 7 days after the night of the full moon and lasted for a number… Read more »
And you call me an a-hole for feeding the troll! Thats enough food for a week of trolling.
I have experience with people like “rational”. I know how to get inside their heads and live there for a while. 🙂
That’s nailed it.
Bloody brilliant. Thank you
A young woman was savagely stabbed to death in north London yesterday morning whilst on the school run. Yesterday was 7 days after a full moon.
Crime goes up at the period of a full moon but also rises at the 1-week mark after a full moon.
So, when you reply to or interact with a nutty jerk like “rational” you are actually normalising in his mind the bouts of mental agitation he feels in the periods post full moons.
The MSM is encouraging people to enrol in Mercks Molnupiravir “anti viral drug”
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-60117313
In the unlikely event anyone here has declined the jabs because of needle phobia, rather than personal research, and is tempted by this drug, I strongly recomend reading about it first.
In a letter to the BMJ, Johan M van Schalkwyk, perioperative physician, says:Buyer beware: molnupiravir may damage DNA
Leo Goldstein (M.Sc. in Mathematics) from defyccc.com has prepared a pdf submission to the FDA, highlighting the dangers and wider consiquences of this treatment, it can be downloaded here:
Molnupiravir: ineffective, carcinogenic, and a global threat
https://downloads.regulations.gov/FDA-2021-N-0758-0021/attachment_1.pdf
I have to wonder, given the risks highlighted, how this drug got any sort of approval anywhere, only the Indian governments ICMR seems to have declined it’s approval over safety issues:
https://www.businesstoday.in/coronavirus/story/covid-19-the-curious-case-of-molnupiravir-and-why-icmr-is-against-its-use-318116-2022-01-06
Well, if England gets REALLY lucky again, the molnupiravir might damage the bits of DNA that got modified in the jabbees by mRNA reverse transcription!
Restrictions are an end in themselves to the Branch Covidian cultist.
There, that was easy.
But does it mean anything?
Yes, it means that Covid has given technocrats the excuse they need to micromanage the individual.
Do learn elementary literacy skills before posting again.
“No evidance restrictions have done very much”….
“Don’t be so open minded that your brain’s fall out”
Carl Dagan.
What about the Matterhorn size mountain of evidance that lockdowns have been a fucking disaster for millions!
Sagan not Dagan 🙄 typo.
There is a very obvious argument against all lockdowns, but the sceptics are too stupid to think of it.
Yes, lockdown is a mediaeval superstition abandoned centuries ago as policy.
However, you’re too dishonest to say it.
Contributors to this thread have mentioned the 77th Brigade.
To those hardworking members of the 77th who are reading this: don’t you get bored stiff when you engage in sealioning and the large majority of your opponents have no defence against your use of that weapon, and no knowledge of what’s happening?
Isn’t it like stealing sweeties from babies?
Affecting sympathy is no different from real sympathy, apart from the fact that the former is never accompanied by any constructive input or persistence or originality.
I would’ve thought most ‘opponents’ of the 77th on here have plenty of defences, by now., though.
My attitude has always been to say what I really think at the time, and assume any ‘opponent’ either is or is not 77th. Life’s too short to look over our shoulders.
In any reasonable conversation, each person’s choice of what to say is influenced by the person they’re conversing with. If that other person is in the 77th (or one of many other such outfits), they will exert their influence consciously. If I had a pound for every time I’ve seen someone get sealioned, oblivious to what’s going on…
For the uninitiated:
Um… do you have any evidence for the tactic known as sealioning… other than your comment? Asking in all sincerity for a friend….
Very witty!
Congratulations Corporal ElSabio and welcome to the 77th Brigade. You have passed this module of your induction training. Click here for your certificate.
Thanks for that.
once you know them, they can change avatars and targets but their sociopathies shine through.
Over at TCW they are well known and are identified immediately to ensure the rest of the commentators don’t waste their vowels on them
Spud, Telemachus Ass, Nigel Ford, Emoticon….
Anyone who has read Kennedy’s book knows that it was largely Gates who forced lockdowns via his war games scenarios over 10 or more years. I was dubious when I read Italy implemented lockdown because China did and then knew for sure when PantsDown Ferguson recommended it. By then I knew Ferguson was in Gates / Fauci’s pocket.
It is disgraceful that the press has never written a damn thing about what really happened even though the evidence is all there. What happened to the great reporters such as in Watergate?
“Great reporters” are cynical or skeptics by nature. They don’t necessarily trust the statements of authorities or “public health officials” as infallible. Once upon a time, plenty of reporters possesses this natural skepticism. Not anymore. You could poll editors and journalists in EVERY corporate newsroom and you would find that 100 percent of these journalists accept the pronouncements that form the authorized COVID narrative. There’s not even one token naysayer in these newsrooms. This has to be the scariest development of our times; the skeptical “watchdog journalist” no longer exists.
The internet is to blame for this – it’s so much easier for “journalists” to trawl the internet and just copy/paste stuff than go out digging for new stories.
Also the move of news online and the fact that it is “free” at the point of use means good journalism, which is expensive, has become much rarer. Unfortunately we are all getting the quality of journalism that we are paying for.
Sad but true
Anyone who has bought this book is an idiot.
But he is pleased to have your money.
Takes one to know one
What happened to the great reporters such as in Watergate?
Bill Gates and governments purchased their loyalty.
No, worldwide indoctrination in green ideology for decades paved the way for lockdown.
Lockdown is an ideology and the ideas had been spread for a century before it was implemented.
Your claim is balderdash and mindless, utterly devoid of proof.
By contrast, my claim is easily proved, one need only observe the green ideology in practice worldwide.
Of course there is ‘no evidence’ – it is all a massive scam!
A power-grab by the Elites served by the Lying Media to cow, oppress and beat down the population .
The fight back has only just started.
I wonder why you are unable to convince anyone beyond the 10s of people who populate this forum?
Who knows?
As usual Trolls go for messenger not the message . You just carry on trying to keep the narrative together!
Is it not the case that the sceptics vilify Gates, Blair, Fauci, etc…..
Fauci is a doctator.
I see what you did there.
Have an uptick.
Most jabbed people I have spoken to don’t understand that the jabs only have emergency use authorisation or that the trials were unscientifdic rigged jokes.
The problem is one of human nature. A majority never wants to be wrong, they’d rather force everyone to be the same than admit the ones who are not the same are right. It’s a natural “we are all in it together” response allied to a “sod everyone else” attitude.
Therefore they will only, over time, come to think that they never believed in what they fought so hard for. Look at Labour under Tony Blair and then try and find anyone who actually voted for him three times. It seems on political forums nobody ever voted for him. It will be the same with lockdowns; nobody ever agreed with them.
“Most people “don’t bother to read anything other than the front page of the ‘Daily Mail’ to get their daily opinion .
“Ignorance is bliss!” We shall see .
Interesting that Daily Sceptics often quotes the Daily Mail.
Evidence for you statement? How do you know how many people he has convinced?
Wow that was hurtful.
You are very mean!
Run out of arguments?
We’ve got 5.9 million unjabbed ( that’s one of their figures). Another is 23.5 million, again from them but includes kids. Another is 4 million first jabbed, but not had the 2nd and 16 million had 2 jabs but overdue the 3rd
In other words, no one’s got a clue as to the exact figure but adding the newly “unvaccinated” adults it may well be in the region of 20 million plus.
Add to that the millions of “fully vaccinated” who disapprove of any mandate and in England we’ve got a pretty healthy (in more ways than one) number for TPTB to try and deal with.
A Mussolini moment may well be giving cause for concern. Cue more activity from the 77th.. Only 3.5% participants usually needed to change events, Chenowith.
I’d be a little bit worried if I were one of them.
Under SAGE’s understanding of epidemiology, the first virus ever to hit mankind would have finished us off. They should be hung, drawn and quartered.
Really… Why don’t you expand on this theory.
Set it all out in a structured manner.
How many down votes are you aiming for?
What’s your target?
50p a downvote. A full shilling if they’re blocked
Sealioning. But for the benefit of others:
Prior to vaccines, the only defence against viral infection was the human immune system which ended the infection. OK, to be strictly fair, help to keep the person alive until their immune system beat the virus contributed to survival, but nevertheless, it still depended on the immune system. Ultimately, sufficient people would survive the virus and become immune to it, that herd immunity was reached. From this point on, so few people were left susceptible that the virus could no longer transmit,
SAGE seem to believe (or claim to believe) that the viral waves peter out because people change behaviour for a period of time, hot because sufficient numbers of people become immune (seemingly, as a result of wildtype or vaccine immunity).
However, if viral outbreaks were not controlled by natural immunity, then absentia vaccincs, people would have got the infection time and time again. As more viruses appeared, the infection rates (counted over all viruses) would rise until nobody could survive. The fact that we are here today (and, indeed, mammals – who have very similar immune systems, have been here for 10s of millions of years), shows that SAGE’s position cannot… Read more »
Would you, by any chance be, be focussing on one careless statement (if it happened the way it has been quoted) and ignoring their obvious understanding of how an epidemic works?
Which statement do you consider to be “careless” ?
Obvious understanding of how an epidemic works?
According to you, Brian Blessed is obviously clean-shaven.
How is this an answer to …..
Under SAGE’s understanding of epidemiology, the first virus ever to hit mankind would have finished us off. They should be hung, drawn and quartered.
Reply
Really… Why don’t you expand on this theory.
Set it all out in a structured manner.
SAGE are fantasists, not scientists.
Their ‘modelling’ is apocalyptic gibberish that has been extrapolated from false assumptions into absurd scenarios that are painted as predictions by the media.
Hanged, drawn and quartered. Not ‘hung’.
These idiots will “get lucky” if they aren’t hung out to dry.
I use the phrase “hung out to dry” metaphorically; although there are many people who would (possibly justifiably) mean it quite literally.
Let’s hope those who’ve done – and continue to do – this to us get a fair trial.
Shouldn’t they be tried according to their own standards? They have thrown aside the rule of law, trampled over fundamental freedoms and rights, completeley silenced and vilified any voices with an opposite view, outlawed genuine debate.
These are their own rules, they should apply to them now. That will help them remember why we have fundamental rights and safeguards in the first place.
It is very likely that none of the social biocontrol measures make any difference whatsoever.
(excepting complete and utter isolation, which has its own negative consequences).
A point I have made repeatedly.
Professor Gary McLean, an immunologist at London Metropolitan University: “There was too much unknown about Omicron at the time the measures were put in place… I think England got lucky.”
Ah, thank god for the science! Where on earth would we be without it…
A lot was known courtesy of South African medics and scientists. Unfortunately this data ran counter to the narrative and to the multi-billion dollar global pandemic industry, so was immediately discounted.
He was right. It was luck.
The only information was from South Africa, with a very different population and not too far ahead of the UK.
Luck is often what losers blame for their loss.
Gary Player was once accused of being lucky and replied “the harder I practice, the luckier I get”.
Ok, let’s say it was luck then. But what would you call all those people who, despite massive amount of evidence of omciron’s mildness from UK, US, Israel etc. etc. are still pushing these same useless measures now?
You can hear the rabid SNP nutters saying the English “b***ards” would call the tighter restrictions in Scotland a failure, purely because they’re English and they feel a need to do the Scots down. This is called “projection”, also known as “lying to yourself because you’re a stupid prejudiced retard”. The reality is that most people in England don’t have massive chips on their shoulders where the Scots are concerned.
“SAGE advisers say the Omicron wave fizzled out on its own because of behavioural changes that led to people being more cautious, as opposed to natural immunity causing the outbreak to peak. …”
The utter refusal to acknowledge that respiratory viruses rise and fall in their own way remains startling even as we enter the third year of this criminal psychosis.
“There was too much unknown about Omicron at the time the measures were put in place… I think England got lucky.”
The disappointment is palpable.
What do behavioural psychologists and mathematical modellers know about immunology? The square root of sweet fuck all.