U.S. Foreign Policy: Do as I Say, Not as I Do

The US has demanded China not build a military base in the Solomon Islands. If it had applied the same principles to Russia that it applies to itself, we might have been able to prevent the war in Ukraine.

4 min read

In his 2014 article ‘Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault’, John Mearsheimer said the U.S. should “publicly rule out” NATO membership for Ukraine, and aim to make the country an economically prosperous, “neutral buffer” between Russia and NATO. This, he argued, could defuse the conflict that had already sparked clashes in the Donbas.  

Instead of heeding Mearsheimer’s advice, the U.S. doubled-down on its policy of ignoring Russia’s security demands. NATO troops began military exercises in Ukraine in September of 2014. By June of 2020, Ukraine was recognised by NATO as an “Enhanced Opportunities Partner”.

And in November of 2021, the U.S. and Ukraine signed a “Charter on Strategic Partnership”, which declared that the U.S. “supports Ukraine’s right to decide its own future foreign policy course free from outside interference, including with respect to Ukraine’s aspirations to join NATO”.

The supposed reason the U.S. followed this policy is given in the quotation above: it cares about the principle of national sovereignty. Ukraine’s post-Maidan government aspired to join NATO, and Russia shouldn’t get a veto over this. Whether Ukraine eventually joins NATO is a matter for Ukraine and NATO.

I say “supposed” because there’s a more cynical reason why the U.S. followed the policy it did: to antagonize Russia, with the aim of “overextending and unbalancing” the Russian economy and armed forces.

In any case, America’s supposed concerns about the principle of national sovereignty were outlined even more clearly in a speech Biden gave on 15th February, shortly before Russia’s invasion. He declared:

Nations have a right to sovereignty and territorial integrity. They have the freedom to set their own course and choose with whom they will associate.

Sounds pretty reasonable, doesn’t it? The only problem is the U.S. flagrantly ignores this principle in its own foreign policy. The most recent example concerns the new security agreement between China and the Solomon Islands. Here’s what the White House had to say:

If steps are taken to establish a de facto permanent military presence, power projection capabilities, or a military installation, the delegation noted that the United States would then have significant concerns and respond accordingly.

In other words, the U.S. objects to China building military bases close to its ally, Australia, and if China does so, the U.S. will “respond accordingly”. Now, the US probably wouldn’t invade the Solomon Islands to prevent China building a military base there, but it might impose crushing sanctions with the aim of destroying the Solomon Islands’ economy.

Such sanctions would obviously constitute a gross violation of the Solomon Islands’ freedom to “set their own course and choose with whom they will associate”.

Scott Morrison, the Australian PM, even announced that a Chinese military base in the Solomon Islands was a “red line” for Australia and the U.S. This is interesting because it’s exactly the same phrase William Burns used in 2008 when warning of Russia’s opposition to NATO expansion. Here’s what Burns said:

Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all red lines for the Russian elite (not just Putin). In more than two and a half years of conversations with key Russian players, from knuckle-draggers in the dark recesses of the Kremlin to Putin’s sharpest liberal critics, I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests.

So America’s foreign policy is basically: do as I say, not as I do… and if you don’t do as I say, I will “respond accordingly”. What’s the upshot of all this?

It’s not that Russia should just be able to invade its neighbours with impunity. It’s that if the US had applied the same principles to Russia that it applies to itself (and its allies), we might have been able to prevent the war in Ukraine.

The West cannot claim that Australia’s concerns about Chinese military bases are entirely legitimate but Russia’s concerns about NATO bases are entirely illegitimate. I mean, it can, but not by appealing to any general principle. “Might makes right” is fine when you’re the global hegemon, but it’s not going to fly when China’s just as powerful as the U.S.

Following the policy outlined by John Mearsheimer may not have prevented the conflict. (Perhaps Russia would have invaded anyway – we can’t be sure.) But doing the exact opposite surely made the conflict more likely.

Of course, this is largely a moot point, since there’s good reason to believe the people in charge of U.S. foreign policy actually wanted a war with Russia.

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174 Comments
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Monro
Monro
4 years ago

To Whom It May Concern

The curious use of the English language and overlong, aggressive, pro Putin bluster of many comments on here have an explanation.

Russian internet trolls based in an old arms factory in St Petersburg are targeting world leaders online and spreading support for Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

Online operatives are ordering followers to target western media outlets and politicians, according to research funded by the UK government, which is now sharing that research with major online platforms and other governments.

Many of these followers, ‘fellow travellers’, belong to fringe political organisations in Europe and elsewhere in receipt of funding from Putin’s Russian political agencies.

The headquarters of the ‘internet research agency’ is allegedly located in rented space in St Petersburg’s Arsenal Machine-building Factory, a company that manufactures military equipment and technology.

The ‘internet research agency’ belongs to Yevgheny Prigozhin

Prigozhin’s activities on behalf of the state have made him notorious……Prigozhin, senior employees and his company are all under US indictment.

Rumbled

janvanruth
janvanruth
4 years ago

so the fact that the usa and australia would wage war against china if it were to place weapons on the solomons, is justification for putin to invade ukraine?
you were going to kick his dog, so i get to kick your dog?

and as always: remember the 298 passenger and crew of flight mh17, killed by russian military over ukrainian territory in 2014.

Monro
Monro
4 years ago

 ‘Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault’

It has to be said: John Mearsheimer is a total numpty; many, if not most, of the comments here, the piece itself, completely dotty.

A totalitarian dictatorship has invaded a neighbouring democracy to avoid its own citizens looking enviously across the border. This happened with the USSR. It has been happening throughout history.

If you appease a totalitarian dictatorship, you simply encourage its rapacity:

‘the Bandera element is only a performer and a disguise for the European project of Nazi Ukraine, therefore the denazification of Ukraine is also its inevitable de-Europeanization.’

‘not just the Bandera version of Nazi Ukraine will be eradicated, but including, and above all, Western totalitarianism….’ (RIA Novosti 04 Apr 22)

And

‘“Control over southern Ukraine is another route to Transnistria, where there is also evidence that the Russian-speaking population is being oppressed,” Russian news agency TASS quoted Major General Rustam Minnekayev as saying.’

Wake up!

The only route back to deterrence is the route that European countries are now, belatedly, taking.

To those who say this will only make things worse, as in ‘Life of Brian’, with the man about to be punished by the high priest for… Read more »

Roger Rogers
Roger Rogers
4 years ago

Neocons do as the Neocons think. Despite all manner of packaging the US wants a New American Century; you can call it a New World Order or The Great Reset but it is global hegemony for all practical purposes. The US is to lead the Global economy indefinitely and to maximise the benefits which acrue to itself. Other nations, other people, other cultures are of secondary importance and can be dispensed with in the fullness of time. In the Anglosphere a lot of people support this idea, and the hubris over the war in Ukraine is a back marker to greater mischief going forward. After the Second World War the US was seen by a war-weary world as a jolly giant with a cornucopia of goodies for the rest of the World to enjoy provided of course, they renounced “Communism” and “Socialism”. Now we know differently and how the American public themselves have been well and truly put into harness, yet alone the rest of us.

Kornea112
Kornea112
4 years ago

One of the largest industries and source of power in the US is the military industrial complex. They need a sophisticated dangerous opponent. After the fall of the Soviet Union a new bogeyman was needed. The Middle East was not sophisticated enough. The vilification of Russia started several years ago even though Russia made every effort to become a part of the West. The EU is complicit in this policy as they benefit enormously from US Military protection & intervention.

authentic8
authentic8
4 years ago

There is an argument to be made on first principles in terms of supporting democracy and liberty, rather than the principle of national sovereignty. It would go that countries like China and Russia are not functioning democracies but autocracies, therefore, on principle, one should oppose their estsblishment of nearby military bases as those bases are not supporting the democratic rights and freedoms of those nations in which the bases are being built but supporting the spread of non-democratic power. The argument would further go on to say that Ukraine is a democracy and, therefore, a US/NATO military base or US/NATO weapons in a democratic country (like Ukraine) support that nation’s democratic rights and freedoms.

On the principle of national sovereignty, it is entirely within a democratic nation’s right of self-determination to impose sanctions on another nation. This alone does not impinge on the sanctioned nation’s national sovereignty.

These arguments has been made many times and would seem sound to me were it not for the fact that the USA uses its military and economic might to support and protect the most heinous of tyrants and non-democracies and (in the past) overthrow democratically-elected governments. It also, in imposing sanctions, interferes… Read more »

Human Resource 19510203
Human Resource 19510203
4 years ago

Over the last two years, I have become aware of much un-trumpeted history of the 20th Century. Aware of, for example, Wall Street’s financing of the Bolshevik revolution, Corporate America’s involvement in the first Soviet five-year plan, the industrialisation of the Soviet Union and the transfer of technology during and after WW2. Aware also that Wall Street financed the rise of the failed Austrian painter. Aware too that Corporate America, in the shape of the Rockefeller Foundation, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and Soros’s Open Society Foundation is behind what we are currently enduring. Corporate America, which controls the current US administration, is not our friend. It never has been and the realisation comes as a bit of a shock.

A good piece by Noah. The US seriously f*ck*d up its handling of post-Soviet Russia from the start. We could have had much more congenial relations; Putin may not have arrive at his current psychopathic state or even not gained power in the first place. It’s a tragedy, for both the West and Russia.

RTSC
RTSC
4 years ago

Obama and Biden basically made the same threat to the UK over Brexit. They wanted us in the EU and would hit us economically if we dared ignore them.

When we went and did it anyway, they demanded the NI Protocol …. effectively giving the EU control of NI and breaking the Good Friday Agreement in the process.

porgycorgy
porgycorgy
4 years ago

Please make this available to all Daily Sceptic readers, and share far and wide. Toby would do well to read it also, as he is distinctly lacking in understanding of what is going on (come a bit closer to ‘Team James, Toby!)
https://www.the postil.com/the-military-situation-in-the-ukraine/?s=09

porgycorgy
porgycorgy
4 years ago
Reply to  porgycorgy

https://www.thepostil.com/the-military-situation-in-the-ukraine/?s=09

Chris Ed
Chris Ed
4 years ago

Surely this is not comparing like with like? China is a nation state whereas NATO is a defensive alliance of nations. China being in the Solomon Islands is not about defending but extending China’s influence. NATO in the Ukraine was about defence from Russia which latest events have demonstrated was a very reasonable fear. This invasion has not be caused by anyone other than Russia as NATO is not an aggressive pact.

Beowa
Beowa
4 years ago

Insightful and accurate post which far too many ignore – yes you Toby
In the UK our Crime Minister Johnson is giving Ukraine everything it wants – why ?
Like Covid you eonder if there’s an underlying motive

AHotston
AHotston
4 years ago
Reply to  Beowa

What’s your underlying motive for being an apologist for Putin?

RJBassett
RJBassett
4 years ago

I am a little concerned about Noah and the number of fellow travellers who think that Mearsheimer was right in 2014, he was not.

Only Putin’s fellow travellers make this ridiculous argument. Its fine to be anti-US or anti-EU or anti-Nato but its not fine to dress prejudices up as though they are anything more lofty than the product of self-loathing and manifest ignorance.

concrete68
concrete68
4 years ago

In 1939 Britain should not have declared war on Germany for invading Poland lest it be accused of hypocrisy for invading a quarter of the world in earlier escapades.

AHotston
AHotston
4 years ago
Reply to  concrete68

Exactly right.

Human Resource 19510203
Human Resource 19510203
4 years ago
Reply to  concrete68

Just what did Britain acquire through military conquest as opposed to commerce?

crosspot2
crosspot2
4 years ago

How strange! No blame is apportioned to the country who actually invaded Ukraine and is trying to obliterate it.
The truth is if NATO had gone into Ukraine before the invasion, Putin would not have dared invade. The country would currently be at peace, no one dead, not a single city, town, village or building destroyed. At this very moment now as I write, all those poor souls who died in terror and in agony would be going about their normal happy peaceful lives.

AHotston
AHotston
4 years ago

Oh, not again, Noah?! You’re turning the Daily Sceptic into the Mearsheimer Fan Club. I bet you really admire the Germans for making Putin feel appreciated in the West, too.
Your empathy with Putin, the paranoid war criminal, needs counselling, not media exposure.

rtj1211
rtj1211
4 years ago

When you have a black man high up in the US hierarchy virtue signalling saying that the US’ goal is to weaken Russia so it can’t ever go to war again, you know that they wanted this war to occur.

You weaken Russia via attritional warfare, economic looting and regime change.

They’ve failed to achieve the latter two the past 20 years, so the first is obviously their current preferred solution.

Drew63
Drew63
4 years ago

Australia’s concerns about Chinese military bases are entirely legitimate, because the bases in question are built on artificially-created islands, in disputed territorial waters. Directly contravening international maritime law.

A NATO base in Poland is entirely legitimate, because Poland is a member of NATO, and is entitled to do pretty much what it wants within its own, internationally-recognised, territory.

ebygum
ebygum
4 years ago
Reply to  Drew63

Are you conflating two things?

The Solomon Islands are a sovereign Country so are also entitled to do as they wish even if that means allowing China to build a military base…surely it’s no different to your example of Poland?

The man-made Islands in the South China Sea are an entirely different thing, and because there is no settled law that covers them I can’t see how they contravene international maritime law….the United Nations Convention of the law of the sea (UNCLOS) states that in relation to man made islands …..their position under general international law, however, remains unclear. In particular, the question of whether artificial islands can constitute sovereign territory remains unanswered.

rtj1211
rtj1211
4 years ago
Reply to  Drew63

Why don’t you ask about US military bases on the Chagos Islands, in the Stan republics, all over Africa?

Monro
Monro
4 years ago

‘It’s that if the US had applied the same principles to Russia that it applies to itself (and its allies), we might have been able to prevent the war in Ukraine.’

Nope.

The only thing that would have prevented a Russian invasion of Ukraine would have been a credible conventional deterrent.

That would have meant a serious rearming of Ukraine and a NATO army corps in Poland.

And to those who say/said that would only antagonize Russia, it couldn’t have been any worse than what is happening right now.

tree
tree
4 years ago
Reply to  Monro

Well…. not turning a blind eye to the annexation of Crimea could have changed things.

Also not doing nothing after Russia crossed red lines in Syria could have changed things.

Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
4 years ago
Reply to  tree

The Crimea is historically and demographically Russian, not Ukrainian.

The Russians are in Syria with the permission of the Syrian goverrnment.

pavelk
pavelk
4 years ago

Nonsense. Putin knows very well that NATO is no threat to Russia. The only reason he was against possible membership of Ukraine (and others) in NATO is because he is afraid to attack a NATO member state. He openly says that no Ukraine or Ukrainian nation exists.
Putin is very clear about what he wants. To restore the Soviet empire. If the Baltic states had not been in NATO, the Russians would have attacked them long ago.

Ukraine has made a big mistake in the past. It gave up nuclear weapons in exchange for a guarantee of security from Russia. If Ukraine kept the nukes it woul be safe now. I guess nobody will make the same mistake any more.

tree
tree
4 years ago
Reply to  pavelk

And now NATO will be much bigger and stronger and Russia will not be forgiven for decades.

It turns out that he has made a major blunder.

greggsy01
greggsy01
4 years ago
Reply to  pavelk

One of those points being made by the Western media about Putin trying to recreate Soviet Union… Very easy to disprove: out of all former Soviet republics, only 3 Baltic States are in NATO meaning that the rest are just sitting ducks ready to be swallowed by Putin into USSR 2.0. after 20 years in power, how many independent countries does the most evil dictator enslaved and now rules from Moscow? And there are many very big and resource rich (and people poor) out there. Much more lucrative than the Baltic states which don’t have much.

tree
tree
4 years ago
Reply to  greggsy01

You better look up the meaning of proof.

tree
tree
4 years ago
Reply to  greggsy01

What do you think his motives are then?

greggsy01
greggsy01
4 years ago
Reply to  tree

NATO on the Russian border is a red line, hostile and weaponised country with Nazi ideology in the military forces terrorising Russian part of the country is a red line. You can argue that he also tries to manufacture his own re election, but it doesn’t mean that other reasons are not there especially if Russians disagree with them, then they’ll obviously not re elect him. But it looks like the majority of Russians are now in support of this campaign.

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  tree

It’s yours that are more of a problem.

pavelk
pavelk
4 years ago
Reply to  greggsy01

Has Canada invaded Denmark in last twenty years? Has Argentina occupied the Falclands recently? Spain Gibraltar? Japan Russia? Spain Gibraltar? Spain Portugal?
No. Does that mean they don’t claim at least parts of their teritory? No.
Putin openly said there is no Ukraine but old Russia and staretd war to make it so. He openly said the fall of soviet Union was the greatest mistake and he wants to fix it and he hasn’t done much yet (thankfully for us who already lived under Russian occupation)
The Baltic states are obstructing the road to Kaliningrad . They are very important and lucrativ

Human Resource 19510203
Human Resource 19510203
4 years ago
Reply to  pavelk

Kaliningrad has only been Kaliningrad since the end of WW2. It was once known as Königsberg, the heart of Prussia. Perhaps Germany should ask for it back. Have we been here before?

iane
iane
4 years ago
Reply to  pavelk

Wow: that has to be the stupidest comment to appear here on this topic. You have obviously been drinking the BBC KoolAid in large draughts.

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  iane

Nothing rots the brain faster than the beeb Kool-Aid. Of course most of those who watch it never had one in the first place, so no problem there then.

Human Resource 19510203
Human Resource 19510203
4 years ago
Reply to  pavelk

NATO was called into existence to counter the threat from the Soviet Union aka Russia. To a man like Vladimir Vladimirovitch Putin, steeped in KGB lore, it is the enemy.

It is a mistake to think that Ukraine had nuclear weapons. Yes, there were nuclear weapons on its soil but they were firmly controlled by the Kremlin. You don’t just, by accident, pick up nukes in a functioning condition.

rtj1211
rtj1211
4 years ago

Absolute BS. NATO came into existence so that the USA could control Western Europe and promote ‘Reds in the Bed’.

The USA cannot exist as a nation without a bogeyman ‘enemy’. As soon as ‘Reds in the Bed’ ended, ‘Climate Catastrophe’ started. Then they started fomenting against Islam, now it is Russia and China again.

NATO exists because the USA cannot exist without perpetual war.

Human Resource 19510203
Human Resource 19510203
4 years ago
Reply to  rtj1211

So what external wars was the USA involved in prior to being dragged into WW1 and WW2.

tree
tree
4 years ago

Interesting trend here..

Each time the DS publishes an article relating to the war against Ukraine, the comments ratchet up one more notch in the direction of supporting/excusing the Russian invasion.

People talk about looking at the whole background, but don’t!
People get more focussed and selective in their “research” to back their view.

The impact of this echo chamber is interesting to observe.

ebygum
ebygum
4 years ago
Reply to  tree

First, remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye.
Matthew 7:5

Mark
Mark
4 years ago

“On the outbreak of the First World War anyone who could speak in German was suspected on being a spy. Graham Greene was a schoolboy in Beckhamstead at the time. He later recorded in his autobiography, A Sort of Life (1971): “There were dramatic incidents even in Beckhamstead. A German master was denounced to my father as a spy because he had been seen under the railway bridge without a hat, a dachshund was stoned in the High Street, and once my uncle Eppy was summoned at night to the police station and asked to lend his motor car to help block the Great North Road down which a German armored car was said to be advancing towards London.”

Greene was not the only one to report dachshund dogs being attacked. James Hayward, the author of Myths and Legends of the First World War (2002) has pointed out: “Famously, dachshund dogs (although not apparently Alsatians) were put to sleep or attacked in the streets, a persecution which endured so long that in the years following the war the bloodline had to be replenished with foreign stock.” The reason for the hostility towards dachshunds was that at the beginning of the… Read more »

ebygum
ebygum
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

One of the best ‘home goals’…Smirnoff Vodka is owned by British company Diageo, and is made in England…so thanks for putting British people out of a job!!

Besides the unprecedented sanctions, and the literal stealing of Russian property, the ‘bans’ on Russian Paralympian’s, Tennis Players, Football teams, and F1. No Russian acts at Eurovision (LOL)….banned from Venice and Cannes film festivals, Tchaikovsky removed from several orchestras repertoire’s…etc..
says absolutely nothing about Russia and a great deal about the petty idiocy of the West.

Mark
Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  ebygum

Yes, greatly to our collective shame, imo.

I hope some of the excluders fall foul of the anti-discrimination laws. Expensively.

“No Russian acts at Eurovision (LOL)“

This should definitely be regarded as a perk of the invasion, for Russians.

Can’t we get banned? I mean, it’s not as though we haven’t attacked quite a few countries lately.

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

What must the Russians think of this?

In the depths of their anguish and suffering in WW2, they did not ban all things German.

I’m not a fan of “collective shame”, but in this instance I agree with you. I feel that shame, because I have a sense of myself a part of a great and beautiful English-speaking culture.

I’m appalled that so many are lending themselves to this disgraceful attitude towards Russia and Russians. Where is the leader who will stand up and say even something as simple as that their quarrel is with the Russian government, not with the Russian people or their culture?

As for the hypocrites who pontificate about “hate speech”, who are disturbed by the offence that incorrect pronouns might give, where are they as this vileness goes on?

ebygum
ebygum
4 years ago
Reply to  Alter Ego

Don’t remember sanctions and sports stars getting banned after NATO’s illegal intervention in Yugoslavia..or the lies of the WMD in Iraq……one rule for me…..

tree
tree
4 years ago
Reply to  ebygum

“Smirnoff Vodka is owned by British company Diageo”

Yes and is freely on sale.

Ron Smith
Ron Smith
4 years ago

Do as I say and join the ICC but don’t expect us to, and if you complain we will sanction you.

JXB
JXB
4 years ago

‘… to antagonize Russia, with the aim of “overextending and unbalancing” the Russian economy and armed forces.’

Which is what allegedly the so-called (unworkable) US Star Wars initiative did, bankrupting the USSR trying to match it. Although it is not likely it played a significant part, but there are probably those in the CIA and elsewhere who like to believe it and want to repeat it.

JXB
JXB
4 years ago

Anyone who is paying proper attention will know ‘Ukraine’ is just a fortuitous event that allows the USA & West to bang the anti-Russian drum, a hang-over from the Cold War demonisation of Russia and vilification of Russians as rather, crude, sub-Humans and a threat to the World.

The USA is afraid a prosperous Russia as an accepted, equal, active part of the global family of nations will challenge USA as numerous uno. It must therefore be kept down and the only acceptable regime would be a weak, subservient one that the US could manipulate like it did in Ukraine and other places.

Hugh
Hugh
4 years ago
Reply to  JXB

I understand the so-called States effectively sponges off the rest of the world through the acceptance of U.S. dollars as reserve currency. I dare say there will be plenty of vested interests desperate to maintain this state of affairs.

Monro
Monro
4 years ago

I was curious as to why so many on here support Putin.

Seek and you will find:

‘That Russia serves as a reliable cash machine for Europe’s far-right political forces has long been an open secret.

‘….the country’s far-right National Front party had funded its election campaign with loans worth €11m from Russian banks. The party, which has since rebranded as presidential candidate Marine Le Pen’s Rassemblement National, has famously struggled to raise funds, with French banks declining to lend it money due to its racist and anti-Semitic past.’

‘Matteo Salvini’s far-right Lega party had struck an oil deal with Russia, which would see profits diverted to Lega to finance its 2019 European Parliament election campaign.’

‘the enthusiasm for Russian money was such that it brought down Austria’s ruling coalition. In a 2019 sting operation that came to be known as the ‘Ibiza Affairs’, Heinz-Christian Strache, Austria’s then-deputy chancellor and the leader of the far-right Freedom Party, was filmed trying to accept a bribe from a fake Russian oligarch

‘What did Russia get in return for this financial largesse? Political support at key moments.’

‘But this is not just about money. European conservatives – not only political parties, but also… Read more »

JXB
JXB
4 years ago
Reply to  Monro

What on Earth have the people ‘on here’ got to do with Le Pen’s RN Party, Salvini’s Lega Party, Austria’s Freedom Party, Uncle Tom Cobley and all?

Mark
Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  Monro

Can’t win the argument, accuse your opponents of being dishonest.

Oldest trick in the book, and it’s certainly been used against the opponents of the illegal and/or disastrously stupid US sphere aggressions against Serbia, Iraq, Libya and Syria, to name but the four most obvious.

No surprise to see it rolled out again.

tree
tree
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

And the Russian antics?…. not exactly squeaky clean!

tree
tree
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Russia involved in Syria in any way?

Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
4 years ago
Reply to  tree

With the agreement of the legitimate government.

Monro
Monro
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

No attempt to address the extremely well documented research paper referenced.

The silence is deafening; telling.

tree
tree
4 years ago
Reply to  Monro

Ironic that Russia support far right causes in other countries, then uses the story of far right Ukrainians as a pretext for invasion.

No wonder the far right “sceptics” have a fondness for the Russian cause.

tree
tree
4 years ago
Reply to  Monro

“I was curious as to why so many on here support Putin.”

Simple answer… they object to everything put out on MSM.

It’s their sworn duty.

ebygum
ebygum
4 years ago
Reply to  tree

I don’t object to this from MSM..

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
Volodymyr Zelenskiy has railed against politicians hiding wealth offshore but failed to disclose links to BVI firm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html
Kiev throws paramilitaries – some openly neo-Nazi – into the front of the battle with rebels

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/4363245
On patrol with the far right militia

all before the ‘great whitewash’ of course……

MrTea
MrTea
4 years ago

Isn’t it amazing that the Western powers have deliberately made China powerful by destroying the lives of their indigenous working classes and exporting our industrial capacity to China.
But forty years ago China was an economic basket case, our ruling class are pure evil.

tree
tree
4 years ago
Reply to  MrTea

Can you clarify?

MrTea
MrTea
4 years ago
Reply to  tree

What are you having difficulty with?

tree
tree
4 years ago
Reply to  MrTea

Why do you say “our ruling class is pure evil”?

Who are they, specifically?

What do you mean by “destroying the lives of their indigenous working classes “?

tree
tree
4 years ago
Reply to  MrTea

Actually, you will find it is capitalism that achieved this.

Export manufacturing to get lower costs.. Wake up 20 years later and find you have educated your competition.

Capitalism works because it suits the cheating/corner cutting nature of people. But it has drawbacks.

What you have seen with exporting manufacturing is nothing compared to what the effect of automation will be.

greggsy01
greggsy01
4 years ago

Surely, the average Joe would by now have read and seen a lot of information, which contradicts the main western narrative of bad Russians invading peaceful Ukraine unprovoked? Surely the average Joe would conduct his own research just for the sake of saving Ukrainian lives, since after 2 months the war has only escalated and more civilians ended up dead. Surely the average Joe would try to make sure that him becoming significantly poorer is indeed making a difference?

JXB
JXB
4 years ago
Reply to  greggsy01

Is this the same Joe who hid under his bed for two years terrified by a Cold virus, swallowing every spoonful of pap fed him by his Democratic Government?

greggsy01
greggsy01
4 years ago
Reply to  JXB

The same Joe, but the stakes are higher: potential nuclear conflict with millions or even billions dead as a pinnacle of never ending escalation… Although, not sure if even this is a good enough reason for the average Joe to switch on his brain.

Beowa
Beowa
4 years ago
Reply to  JXB

That’s what they want you to believe

tree
tree
4 years ago
Reply to  greggsy01

What would the “researched” summary of real events be?

What should the response have been and why?

What would have been the consequences?

greggsy01
greggsy01
4 years ago
Reply to  tree

NATO expansion, US orchestrating state coup in 2014, weaponizing neo Nazis, Donbass war and killings of Russian speaking civilians by Ukrainian forces and neo Nazis, depriving large chunks of population to use the language they want and honouring ww2 heroes the want, disregarding signed Minsk agreements, zelensky forgetting the peace mandate he was elected on behalf of. And after February 2022, there are many, many documented atrocities perpetrated by Ukrainian forces against both military and civilian targets. None of this means that Putin and Russians are saint. Horrible things happened from both sides. By to manufacture consent of the average Joe for the prolonged conflict, he only needs to see one side of the story.

concrete68
concrete68
4 years ago
Reply to  greggsy01

That’s not research that’s reiterating internet memes.

greggsy01
greggsy01
4 years ago
Reply to  concrete68

I won’t even bother posting links to numerous websites and videos confirming a lot of nuance and history between Ukraine and Russia. There is plenty of documents confirming that Ukraine is very far from being a peaceful country which now under unprovoked attack just because Putin is evil. None of the links and videos will be from the Russian state media, but rather from the very same western MSM, which now conveniently forgotten everything it had said before, and by many independent western journalists.

dearieme
dearieme
4 years ago

P.S. Mr Carl shouldn’t use “moot” in the American sense if writing for an educated UK readership. Pull your socks up, young Noah.

dearieme
dearieme
4 years ago

Probably the two best US foreign policy moves after WWII were (i) Nixon’s “opening to China”, splitting her from her alliance with the USSR, and (ii) Reagan’s decision to try to end the Cold War, which succeeded – and more than succeeded in that he not only ended it but won it.

Both these achievements were secure under Bush the Elder, but the collection of immature characters who have dominated the White House since those days have tossed them both away, driving China and the Russian Federation into each other’s arms and into enmity with the USA.

It says something that the narcissistic oaf Trump proved a much better President than Slick Willie, W, O, and the husk of Joe Biden. Has it been worse than even inter-war French foreign policy? Yes it probably has; and nuclear weapons means it all matters much more.

Sforzesca
Sforzesca
4 years ago

I wonder what the USA will do if it succeeds in creating the whole world in its own image.
Won’t happen, the military/industrial complex needs enemies.
That complex is perhaps the biggest threat. ( Copyright Eisenhower 1961 ).
NATO will not seek to expand one inch eastward. ( Steve Baker et al to Russia 1990 ).

kate
kate
4 years ago
Reply to  Sforzesca

Very good point

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