Last week, I wrote about a scandal that’s currently engulfing the Royal Society of New Zealand in my Spectator column (and I blogged about it on the Daily Sceptic here). The nub of the story is that the Society is currently investigating one of its members, an eminent biochemist and a professor at the University of Auckland – Dr. Garth Cooper – for writing a letter to a New Zealand magazine challenging a proposal by a government body to teach Mauri “ways of knowing” in schools alongside physics, biology and chemistry, giving each equal weight when it comes to understanding the material world. I asked distinguished scholars in the sciences and humanities to write to the chief executive of the Royal Society of New Zealand to defend Professor Cooper and Dr. Richard Dawkins, Emeritus Professor of the Public Understanding of Science and a Fellow of the British Royal Society, has done exactly that. I am reproducing his letter below.
I have read Jerry Coyne’s long, detailed and fair-minded critique of the ludicrous move to incorporate Maori “ways of knowing” into science curricula in New Zealand, and the frankly appalling failure of the Royal Society of New Zealand to stand up for science – which is, after all, what your Society exists to do.
The world is full of thousands of creation myths and other colourful legends, any of which might be taught alongside Maori myths. Why choose Maori myths? For no better reason than that Maoris arrived in New Zealand a few centuries before Europeans. That would be a good reason to teach Maori mythology in anthropology classes. Arguably there’s even better reason for Australian schools to teach the myths of their indigenous peoples, who arrived tens of thousands of years before Europeans. Or for British schools to teach Celtic myths. Or Anglo-Saxon myths. But no indigenous myths from anywhere in the world, no matter how poetic or hauntingly beautiful, belong in science classes. Science classes are emphatically not the right place to teach scientific falsehoods alongside true science. Creationism is still bollocks even it is indigenous bollocks.
The Royal Society of New Zealand, like the Royal Society of which I have the honour to be a Fellow, is supposed to stand for science. Not “Western” science, not “European” science, not “White” science, not “Colonialist” science. Just science. Science is science is science, and it doesn’t matter who does it, or where, or what “tradition” they may have been brought up in. True science is evidence-based not tradition-based; it incorporates safeguards such as peer review, repeated experimental testing of hypotheses, double-blind trials, instruments to supplement and validate fallible senses, etc. True science works: lands spacecraft on comets, develops vaccines against plagues, predicts eclipses to the nearest second, reconstructs the lives of extinct species such as the tragically destroyed Moas.
If New Zealand’s Royal Society won’t stand up for true science in your country who will? What else is the Society for? What else is the rationale for its existence?
Yours very sincerely,
Richard Dawkins FRS
Stop Press: If any scholars would like to write to the chief executive of the Royal Society of New Zealand about this matter his name is Paul Atkins and his email address is [email protected].
Discussion
Comments
This week across the site:
To join in with the discussion please make a donation to the Daily Sceptic.
Profanity and abuse will be removed and may lead to a permanent ban.
Faraday, Newton, John Harrison, Trevithick and many others were all indigenous to the British Isles and so their knowledge output should be considered indigenous knowledge.
Please sign and share far and wide. This is important if they will take any notice of it.
Click this link to sign the petition “Open a Public Inquiry into Covid-19 Vaccine Safety”
https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/121193159/verify?token=6hg4LmnUqkdSrNLJQoGj
Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament
This is the same Dawkins who, dispaying a strange logic when writing in the Spectator said: ‘I hate the very idea of a referendum…’ and, regarding the Brexit outcome which he opposed said ‘The only way out is another referendum.’ The same Dawkins who, incidentally, refuses to go head-to head with that other eminent scientist, Rupert Sheldrake, author of ‘The Science Delusion.’ A book I heartily recommend.
Why won’t people get it.
These are attacks. The groups responsible don’t care about history, ‘science’, tradition, health. They all care about power and making us serfs. They use Marxist groups to help bring about their goals. History doesn’t repeat, it rhymes.
Get wise and pay attention to low level politics in your area. Boot out these Marxists and we might have a chance to regain some semblance of normality.there are no safe groups.
”Boot out”? Do you think we’ll ever be given a chance to vote again in a meaningful way to achieve something that might change the status quo?
Trouble is, Marxists get entryism, probably far more so than most other people.
BBC fact checkers have confirmed that The Great Pumpkin exists.
I think it was Linus, in Peanuts who believed in the Great Pumpkin.
This issue was discussed on the Lotuseaters podcast.
https://youtu.be/7YXJD0Ytb0I
Richard may be unaware of this, but the most spectacular failure of modern science has just occurred over the past 20 months, where the consensus seeking groupthink practitioners of the scientific method have led us into the worst catastrophe to have befallen mankind. The myth of Covid outranks all of the myths of our ancestors in the devastation caused. Maori myth science would at least have caused no harm.
On the contrary, it would have taught superstitious balderdash as science.
Dawkins’ views on evolution are not in any way part of the errors of the response to Covid.
Indeed, Dawkins is currently opposing mediaeval superstition in this field.
What a shame Prof Dawkins and his esteemed colleagues aren’t as equally outraged by the failure of every scientific institution in this country to hold the government to account for its total disregard for the scientific method and their handling of the covid pandemic. Not one of the UK’s prestigious scientific institutions, the RS, the BMA, the MHRA, etc., etc., has spoken out and condemned the government for its obvious failures from NPIs to the unnecessary and inadequately tested rollout of experimental vaccines.
I am a long-term Fellow of the Royal Society of Biology – OK, not quite up to FRS itself, but still a mark of professional competence. Yesterday I wrote to the RSB to complain of the grotesque behavior of another of my Clan in apparently fabricating evidence that led to the dismissal of another Colleague, by claiming that he had made ‘anti-vax’ remarks, thus bringing his University’s alleged reputation into disrepute.
I informed the Society that I believe that, In the emergent toxic culture of academic censorship of free speech that now dominates every aspect of our personal, social and professional lives, the exploding climate of suppression of informed dissent is fast destroying the very fabric of science itself. The biological sciences, and most particularly the fields of medicine and environment, are now subject to appalling pressures to conform with politically motivated ‘norms’ that are causing hideously disproportionate harm on a gigantic scale.
These violate all of the established principles of ethical behavior, and indeed even of established legal protection, whereby we professional biologists attempt to continue to practice. I believe that all Professional Societies, and most particularly in the politicized current Covid and Climate confrontations, those that operate within… Read more »
Well said
PS – please don’t include MHRA in this – they’re a central part of the problem, not any potential source of salvation!
One day – probably not too far off – Mr Dawkins will meet his maker. Hope I’m there to see the exchange. Should be interesting.
Oh give me a break – this guy is the most zealous man on earth – his religion of ‘true’ science is responsible for the fucking mess we’re in now – has he heard of T Kuhn? Has he heard of Feyerabend? Mate – in the real world anything goes in science if u have the PR machine to sell and the funds to prove it… debate? Transparency? Non corporate funded science? Objectivity!!!! Might as well teach voodoism as science in NZ given their current ‘truths’ aka fascism. I cannot bear Mr Dawkins and his secular fanaticism – one of the more repulsive figures of our day
Wrong, Dawkins has evidence for his views on evolution.
Dawkins does not support the ancient superstition of creationism.
His atheism is also ancient, and as I say, he appears to have his own creation myths.
I remember a story about a “scientific” piece published, claiming that the universe originated form a dot, and the dot came from nothing, and apparently that is science.
Some right rum things in these scientific journals, but it seems some people, for want of the real thing, treat them as holy writ.
The Jerry Coyne referenced in Dawkins letter is also a true believer at the church of covid. I agree with both their articles in defence of Professor Cooper, however I recently incurred the wrath of Jerry Coyne recently by calling him a moron (in response to his calling Eric Clapton one because of his stance on refusing to perform at venues which might employ covid passports). Jerry Coyne is also a rabid supporter of mandatory vaccination. As both these gentlemen are Evolutionary Scientists, I am truly puzzled by the cognitive dissonance which allows them to prefer vaccination over natural immunity for a bad flu ‘epidemic’.
I trust as at least a nominally Christian nation NZ will also be teaching creationism alongside Maori “ways of knowing” and the scientific method from now on?
Good to see the pursuit of ideological purity remains paramount here BTL: people who don’t agree with us on everything cannot be agreed with on anything.
I observe that none of them, except for the intergalactically stupid, say that Dawkins is wrong to oppose the teaching of ancient Maori superstition as science, they just attack him on the basis he got another subject wrong.
I barely read the piece to be honest, I was just fascinated by what people were saying btl.
The opposite of the Liberal Democrats then. Apparently if their members don’t disagree with at least 10% of their manifesto, they are not real Lib Dems!
All very fine were it not for the fact that this is the same scientist who once appeared on TV to inform the world that the election of Donald Trump was some sort of strange evolutionary mistake.
Yes, maybe he worked that out by weighing and measuring things…
He does come out with some strange stuff. And doesn’t treat others how he would like to be treated himself, seemingly. But then why would he with his beliefs?
Dawkins is actually more of a vicar than the vicars he berates.
Brilliant insight! Such a shame that religion has done more to befuddle mankind and denigrate God and the teachings of Christ than Dawkins will ever begin to do in his delusion.
The election of an orange New York liberal was a mistake, albeit not due to evolution.
The subsequent presidency of the senile Joke Biden doesn’t make Trump any good.
Not sure if there is some preamble to this story which I’ve missed but why are we discussing it on Daily Sceptics?
Maybe because he’s sceptical? (Except when he’s not).
The very meaning of science is knowledge. It’s because of the likes of this pompous prick that we’re in the mess we’re in and that this very website exists. If he’s so sure of his precious science then it should be very easy to use it to debunk the myths he spouts about. In reality, what often happens is that science mimicks knowledge (ways of knowing) passed down through generations. This is most evident in medicine with the irony being that the original, natural forms of medicine don’t come with many of the side effects created by their modern, synthetic counterparts. Science has it’s place alongside all other forms of knowledge.
I think we see this corruption in the pedaling of sugary snacks. Man likes sweet things because the blackberries etc. that we traditionally eat are at their most nutritious when they are sweet. So this is mimicked artificially by processed foods (or “foods”) that have the same sweetness but no nutritional value, and turn a nice profit for those who produce them.
He has already debunked those myths.
Specifically?
“True science works: lands spacecraft on comets, develops vaccines against plagues. . . “
Trouble is, as we are finding out the hard way, vaccines don’t always work, particularly when they are actually gene therapies and the virus they are supposed to “defeat” has never even been proven to exist.
If this is what the Emeritus Professor means by true science, then all I can say is. . . God help us!
I suspect that some of these medications are more about profit.
The trouble is, the people pedaling these medications tend not to take a truly holistic approach.
And good old Dawkins’s preferred creation myth of a smooth gradient from zero to one light sensitive membranes; and the random combination of amino acids to form proteins in contravention of statistical laws of probability. Among other things.
Not necessarily arguments for alternative ideas, but simply to demonstrate that he has a belief system too.
And it is ironic that the assertions of some people who oppose lockdowns appear to amount to that we should not have been created with freedom of choice for our own good.
Dawkins dismisses God as a make believe, is terrorized by a make believe pathogen.
The pathogen is real, the hysterical overreaction is unreal.
Instead of actually being able to write a comment here, I get misdirected into an interminable registration process, and finally am asked to choose a colour scheme! What a waste of my time. Adiós
Is it any wonder the world is a mess when instead of evaluating the central issue, the attack on science and a scientist in New Zealand and its and his defence by an eminent scientist, we choose to go off subject and attack the defender.
craven fools
If Dawkins is wrong about Covid, and I believe he is , then attack him on science for this, but don’t conflate and therefore undermine the issue on hand for which he should be commended
I’ve read the bulk of the comments but gave up because I got fed up.
Dawkins has come out in support of a colleague and in support of science.
Is that not enough?
I agree. I liked this site a year ago, but I feel increasingly out of place as a libertarian rationalist. I have both walked the walk and talked the talk as a lockdown sceptic, the first by refusing to wear a mask or comply with other restrictions, and by door to door leafleting, but I can’t see the point in coming to the comments here any more. Long live free speech, liberty, property and free enquiry. Down with tyranny. The struggle continues.
I understand but there are many fine commentters on here – I could push a list but would inevitably forget someone.
This site helps me retain a degree of sanity. I believe I understand as well as anyone what is going down but I hope to be able to share my thoughts on a daily basis on here.
If these comments pages are not for you then fair enough but I need the medicament of other people’s thoughts.
The struggle indeed continues.
I have no problem with Dawkins saying what he does in this regard, but he has been one of the most rabid proponents of Lockdown which is being shown, daily to have been a catastrophe.
“True science is evidence-based not tradition-based”
Like germ theory?…
Comment from Steve Kirsh’s newsletter
Craig Paardekooper has made 2 highly enlightening and disturbing. I think everyone will want to see these.
In this one, Craig has created a pivot table with US states on the horizontal axis and successive vaccine batches on the vertical axis. It turns out that most batches have fairly rare side effects, but in about 1 in 200 batches, the number of side effects is more than 1000 times higher. These side effects are visible in all states.
https://rumble.com/vq9q2n-vaers-analysis-1-in-200-vaccine-batches-has-more-than-1000x-adverse-events-.html
We seem to be dealing with Russian roulette where the revolver has about 200 chambers. As you take more and more boosters, the chance that the weapon will fire if you or a loved one is jabbed, increases.
In this video he has made a scatter plot with time on x-axis and number of side effects from VAERS on y-axis. The rolling time corresponds well to the batches used. https://rumble.com/vq9pde-highly-disturbing-vaers-analysis-clear-patterns-in-toxic-vaccine-batches-cr.html
The analysis shows that about 80% of the batches have at most 1 or 2 negative side effects per batch. About 19.5% of the batches have side effects well above the background value, and 0.5% of the batches (1 in 200) are extremely toxic, with side effects… Read more »
https://rumble.com/vq9pde-highly-disturbing-vaers-analysis-clear-patterns-in-toxic-vaccine-batches-cr.html
Following comment;
Of course they are doing dose testing. No doubt about it. They didn’t do animals studies prior to FIH clinical trials bc they didn’t care. This was all about the tech. and saving the industry (among other goals). Further, the manufacturing process control is absent for the same reason. Nothing has been done according to normal drug devt. This experimental, investigative product is still undergoing refinement. It is the most dangerous tech in the world. No, that is not hyperbole. You can literally kill entire, or selected populations, with the right code sequences and knowing the targets. Folks need to wake up this one big data gathering exercise. When its all said and done, they will literally have selected kill shots for every cohort population.
Dawkins is a narcissistic bigot. No better than Catholics who incarcerated and abused children, Paisley, Ultra Zionists, Hamas or the Ayatollahs.
How temporarily amusing to read hard of thinking arts graduate and failure Toad Young defending science having himself done his failed best in trying to discredit it for the last two years.
If they were teaching neo-liberal free (not free) Adam Smith market mythology I doubt he would find any objection at all.
p.s. oh! the BTL hogwash is priceless. :-))
So you are not the greatest navigator of t’interwebby?
Sex and travel sunshine.
Adam Smith has done more than anyone on the planet to increase living standards.
It’s a pity Marxists choose to do the opposite and thus murder 100 million people.
Looks like a tidied up Sir Les Patterson
Where is the Science in lockdowns and mask wearing Dawkins? Nowhere to be seen. At least there is written evidence of God whether you believe it or not. The Covidians, such as Dawkins, couldn’t even be bothered to write anything down supporting their religion.
Would you still consider peer review science? It is seriously tainted. Indeed – is there such a thing as independent sciene? No – just vested interested science – all the rest is withered and starved.
What about those astronomers Sky at Night were recruiting? Is there an amateur scene in other areas of science?