It makes “little sense” to impose any kind of vaccine certification scheme, an expert panel of scientists has told a cross-party group of MPs, since Government data indicates that “vaccinated people over 30 years are now more likely to be infected than the unvaccinated”.
The comments were made at a hearing for an enquiry into Covid passes set up by the Pandemic Response and Recovery All Party Parliamentary Group (APPG). The group, established in the autumn to scrutinise the Government’s response to the pandemic, will gather information from doctors, public health officials, business owners and parliamentary colleagues before setting out its conclusion to Government ministers.
Co-chaired by Conservative MP Esther McVey and Labour MP Graham Stringer, the APPG says it will examine the pros and cons of such a scheme and the rationale behind it, as well as global evidence of whether they work.
Esther McVey said:
We need to understand the role these passports would play and hear from Government ministers who support a potential scheme, businesses that would be affected, together with expert opinions of scientists and health experts. We need to look at how the scheme is working in Scotland and fully understand the implications introducing Covid passports could have.
Coupled with that we need a full cost analysis and scientific evidence if we are to impose such a measure on people. We also need to explore the possibility that the introduction of passports could exclude some sections of society, when its supposed intention is to support the entire U.K. population. Therefore, evidence sessions such as these are so important, it allows us to get a full picture before we make a decision and put our case to Government.
Graham Stringer added: “If the Government wishes to infringe on our freedoms, then it must have overwhelming evidence to do so. As yet that evidence does not exist and has not been produced and it should not be allowed to proceed without it.”
The APPG heard evidence from former Director of the Communicable Disease Surveillance Centre (Wales) Dr Roland Salmon, Professor of Industrial Economics at Nottingham University David Paton, and Dr David Bell, public health physician and former global coordinator of malaria diagnostics for the World Health Organisation (WHO).
All three argued against the passes, which are already in force in Scotland and Wales and reported to be potentially part of Government’s Plan B in England should reported Covid infections keep rising. The scientists argued there was insufficient scientific and clinical evidence to judge the effectiveness of such a scheme, that being vaccinated did not stop transmission, and that the policy would cause significant economic damage and further erode public confidence in public health measures.
Professor David Paton commented:
There is no obvious sign from countries that have already implemented similar certification schemes that there are any benefits in terms of reducing infections. But we know there will be huge costs to the economy; nightclubs in Scotland have reported trade levels dropping by almost half since the introduction of their vaccine passport scheme while leaked documents show that the Government itself estimates the cost of implementing Plan B in England to be between £11 billion and £18 billion.
Covid passes are a heavy-handed and invasive approach to public health. They pose an unacceptable risk to rights and individual liberties and could jeopardise trust in public health measures at a critical time.
Dr Roland Salmon said:
From a public health standpoint, it makes little sense to impose any kind of vaccine certification scheme. If the vaccine is to protect others around you, then it needs to greatly reduce transmission. Studies from Public Health England and Imperial College only show reductions in household transmission of 30-50%; not enough and even then, probably temporary. Thus, a policy of targeting vaccination to those at highest risk, allowing broader post-infection immunity to develop in the wider community to prevent spread is likely to be a much more effective approach.
Dr David Bell added:
It is unclear what vaccine passports will achieve in the U.K. We must recognise that unvaccinated people are unlikely to cause any more risk to others than the vaccinated, and perhaps less. We know that vaccinated people who become infected commonly have similar infectiousness as unvaccinated people, while Public Health England data indicates that vaccinated people over 30 years are now more likely to be infected than the unvaccinated. We also know that unvaccinated people will, in general, suffer more symptoms, so are more likely to abstain from community gatherings when infected, while infected vaccinated people continue to be active, potentially increasing risk to the vulnerable.
The APPG will hear further evidence next month.
Stop Press: Prof David Paton appeared on LBC yesterday to talk to Maajid Nawaz about why vaccine passports are such a terrible idea.
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Quick, tell Nicola Sturgeon! I’m sure she’ll take note…
The news will make her a bit krankie.
And definitely ignore the findings of the report her party commissioned as regards ‘vaccine passports’
https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/research-and-analysis/2021/11/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-certification-evidence-paper-update/documents/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-certification-evidence-paper-update/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-certification-evidence-paper-update/govscot%3Adocument/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-certification-evidence-paper-update.pdf
And Robin “scores on the doors” Swann
[NI businesses should have to display signage on their entry doors demonstrating how “covid compliant” they are – I personally would be lending my patronage to those with the lowest levels of ‘compliance LOL]
Partially noted in that they are not extending passports
At last some good news where it can’t be entirely ignored by the media.
For my part I am willing to accept a jab on the day that the treatment becomes officially authorised and when the indemnity for the manufacturers’ liability is lifted.
I’m not
Nor me
Which is never…
If that were to turn out to be the case even in the medium term, it would surely be hard for governments to sustain their insistence on the innoculations they seek to impose.
After a year of mass trials emergency authorisations for these innoculations must eventually give way to properly constituted approvals with all that entails in terms of liability for adverse events.
On a different tack, can there be folk so bereft of sense or something better to do that they go through these threads and down-vote contributions from covidiots? My last comment earned -8 of which I’m quite proud.
You would think the vaccinated would have better things to do with the limited time they have left, than waste it being negative.
In which case you have completely misunderstood what the purpose of these injections are. I say injections because they don’t remotely come near the legal definition of a vaccine. There is something called freedom of choice and bodily integrity which we are all born with and cannot be taken away and is protected by law, plus the UK has a very clear law of informed consent. There is also self respect which seems to be very lacking right now with some people.
Never. They are gene therapies to prepare for humans to become the property of a New World Order. These injections will make us slaves
The only vaccine I’d be willing to take is a standard one, based on a dead version of the virus, as is the normal way of ‘training’ our natural immune system, a system which no one can better.
Why wouldn’t I take the current mRNA vaccines?
Read this: https://climateofsophistry.com/2021/09/24/thermodynamics-101-socrates-debunks-climate-alarm-science/#comment-95114
Summary?
The mRNA vaccines are impairing and even destroying our natural immune system.
Note this also regarding Ivermectin: https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/tables/table-2e/ So contrary to all the political denial and guffawing, Ivermectin *IS* on the US NIH list of approved medicines for treating covid-19, and unlike Remdesivir, it is cheap safe and effective.
i won’t get any now even the old kind [,think might be a lot of us like that now ].
No, not even then. It’s unnecessary and it’s not a vaccine.
Oh dear. That’s not gonna fly. Will have to be consigned to the bin marked scientific advice that contradicts the narrative along with JCVI’s suggestion that vaccinating children was a poor idea on balance.
It’s not a bin, it’s a skip.
And a chuffing huge one at that.
Under 50s very small risk of death but unknown other risks. How about we stop vaccinating the healthy as it’s now increasingly cases!
A bit of common sense from a couple of Northern MPs.
just watched another excellent talk by the BRLLIANT Dr Ryan Cole – can’t believe the medical establishment don’t know all this already and continue with there deadly crimes against children and us adults….
https://drtrozzi.org/2021/11/09/dr-cole-covid-complete-from-the-cutting-edge/
Anyways a must watch and does anybody know if this chimes with the BRILLIANT Geert Vanden Bish-Bish-Bosche stuff?
( McCullouch, Dr Malone (the fella that invented DNA technology), Dr Kory, and all the other BRILLIANT medics and scientists who bravely fight against anti-science, and would make a far more effective (and less corrupt) WHO (well for world health maybe but not pharma profits and James Bond villans…))
The medical establishment do know it. As RFK explained in his recent interview with an American journalist, the medical profession globally has been given so much money for their research by Bill Gates and Anthony Fauci that they know to keep their heads down.
If they speak out against anything or want to research something that doesn’t suit Fauci, their funding is stopped and their careers destroyed. Four extremely important virologists have had their lives ruined. One committed suicide. Judy Mikovitz was at the vanguard of vaccine research when she noticed ALL vaccines were being tampered with. She tried to stop this and her career was cut short, her family name destroyed and her life in tatters. They tried to do the same with RFK by threatening his son’s life. His wife and son subsequently died in tragic but suspicious circumstances.
This is not about money. Its about control and it’s time people grew up and saw it for what it is.
No no no. That won’t do, if we don’t do it now we’ll never be able to control carbon and social credits through denying access to society for those that don’t follow precise government diktats.
Well this won’t do, you’re going against the narrative…
Who wants to bet this isn’t what the final report will say?
My MP cannot grasp this basic fact. What hope do we have when the people who represent us are of such diabolically low intelligence?
I wouldn’t be so sure that your MP cannot grasp it. More likely IMO they don’t want to, because doing so would mean admitting they were wrong and/or they would face serious consequences to their political career – not much chance of a cabinet or shadow cabinet job, the opprobrium of their colleagues. IMO most of this is being kept going by failures of honesty and courage, not intelligence.
You could be right but I’ve been shocked by how thick as mince most MPs are when it comes to reading stats, numbers and data.
Labour MPs are by far the worst, utterly clueless.
I have explained it to him in the simplest words possible and then asked him to explain to me how vaccine passports can possibly help if vaccinated people can spread it.
He simply ignores it and answers something else. Typical politician really – I think we need an overhaul so they are more readily and more frequently accountable to the people they serve.
One bag of lies every five years is not acceptable.
Politicians are experts in rhetoric and sophism — what they know about is how to convince people that they’re right and that others are wrong.
Clearly they’re going to ignore a good point and move on to something else — that’s what they’re good at, just so long as it helps them win the argument.
They’re not good at data, science, understanding difficult concepts. They don’t need to know about such things.
Some might say that they need to NOT know those things, so that they can lie effectively without feeling too guilty. If they were any good in those concepts, they’d have a different job.
Of the same level of intelligence as the people who voted for them?
‘Honest’ John Swinney has already confirmed that it is ‘impossible’ to tell if Scotland’s vaxpass scheme is working – as reported in The National (the SNP’s very own ‘Pravda’) – so I don’t think that ‘looking at how the scheme is working in Scotland’ will be very helpful:
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19694570.vaccine-passports-scotland-no-evidence-cutting-covid-rates-says-swinney/
However, that lack of evidence didn’t prevent Swinney from saying that the scheme was ‘delivering a positive benefit in suppressing the virus’…
Yes, good point. Very few are paying attention any more, if they ever did.
We are sleepwalking into 1984. I have never gone onto the streets to protest but will not hesitate to if the government try to impose this. I have had my two vaccines and the booster as I am in the vulnerable category, but I will not stand back and allow the government to create a two tier society, what would it end.
Having had the vaccines has already helped to create the two-tier society. Not one person in the whole country should have taken even one shot. They’ve just scared so many people with stories about dying with crackly lungs – our governments are the real terrorists. Destroyed millions of lives so they can line their pockets, and fly up and down to Glasgow on a private jet.
I think it’s more of a brisk jog than a walk at this point.
Also, the government (in Davos and Beijing) don’t give a stuff what we do on the streets of the UK.
Have the ghastly BBC or Guardian reported this yet…?
Incoming from Devi does Davos….
Of course they don’t make sense… when are people going to realise that they’re not being used for health! It’s a control mechanism!
Will the great leader follow this science?
Here’s the Great Leader:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B409gBB9Is
Holy cow, science still employs logic. Who knew? Now if the media would explain these facts to the populace they might understand how dumb the whole idea is and stop pushing this. Now, can we explain to people why a mask with pores 100-1000x larger than the virus is utterly useless at stopping infections?
Im all for doing reasonable things to stop infections especially among the at-risk. Of course, the only thing that will actually help is to have at-risk populations not circulate in society unless they want to undertake the risk.
Vaccines are causing all sorts of trouble for those that aren’t even affected by this virus, human rights are being violated, vigiaccess.org covid-19 vaccine.
millions of adverse reactions, https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712
Depop, ID and social credit scheme.
Experts told this government that it made absolutely no sense to vaccinate children … but they still went ahead and did it.
It did make sense if you were looking for a £400,000 bonus for a house extension and new swimming pool.
Reason to take the jabs: You stand more chance of being infected than the unvaccinated.
.
Hospitals in USA and in first world countries are refusing life-saving Ivermectin treatment even with court orders. Big Pharma doing everything they can to jab us no matter what, while alternative COVID cures EXIST! There happens to be heavy censorship who are looking for these treatments. The Research Is Clear: Ivermectin Is a Safe, Effective Treatment for COVID. Get your Ivermectin today while you still can! https://ivmpharmacy.com
I hate to be this cynical, but when I read so and so “makes little sense,” this tells me that so and so WILL happen.
“We need to understand the role these passports would play and hear from Government ministers who support a potential scheme, businesses that would be affected, together with expert opinions of scientists and health experts. We need to look at how the scheme is working in Scotland and fully understand the implications introducing Covid passports could have.”
No. We/You don’t.
ANY discrimination is plain and simply WRONG.
VPs are such a discrimination.
If you can’t grasp that, you don’t belong into an MP’s seat, but into prison.
On top of that, they are completely indefensible medically, even if the vaxxed weren’t the far more likely spreaders, as they now are confirmed to be.
“while infected vaccinated people continue to be active, potentially increasing risk to the vulnerable.”
In other words if we’re going to impose Lockdowns on anyone (which we shouldn’t as they are useless) it should be the vaccinated.
These Committees and investigations take so long they are almost irrelevant. Politicians are not known for quick thinking and decision making…..unless it suits their own pockets. We all know what’s happening. It doesn’t take a committee to gather and discuss.
Well, that’s Professor Paton, Dr Salmon and Dr Bell on The List then.
The first thing they’ll find is that any social media accounts of theirs are about to be restricted or terminated for wrongthink. I hope their contracts are rock solid and that they have decent legal representation lined up, for all the good it will do them.
Lord Sumption was correct: “We are witnessing the ultimate folly of frightened politicians who cannot accept that they are impotent in the face of some natural phenomena.“. Basically, and as has been said many times, Boris needs to grow a backbone, sack SAGE etc., do the right thing in banishing each and every measure to the dustbin of history, and tackle the virus in a rational fashion, targeted protection of the vulnerable, deployment of the known, safe and effective medicines, led by Ivermectin, and allow the development of a standard, not mRNA, vaccine along the standard timelines and available in future years after full approval, perhaps to be combined with the flu vaccine. He also needs to revoke the current EUAs for the current vaccines such that the pharmaceutical companies carry liability going forward (we’ll soon see how quickly they disappear).
Is it not true that EUA is only valid in the absence of any alternative? You’d have thought the fact that effective alternatives have been acknowledged automatically brings an end to EUA.
If you read ‘The Real Anthony Fauci’ by Robert F Kennedy Jr £2.99 on Kindle until Nov 30th, you will find out how this fate was avoided by the multi-billionaire backers of mRNA vaccines and Remdesivir (used to kill unvaccinated patients in hospitals across the States – the vaccinated got ivermectin and/or HCQ allegedly).
They had to kill the reputation of ‘science’ in the process along with millions of people but “it was a price worth paying” for the profits accruing to the Likes of Fauci and Billy Goates.
If the government goes ahead with vaccine passports we will all know they helping the rich get richer and the powerful become more powerful. Instead of wasting our money on gimmicks,I also include track and trace we should as the interviewer said expand healthcare.
Can someone please check to see if Tesco’s doubly jabbed Santa has turned up A&E with covid yet? Lots of DJ’s have I’m told.