80505
  • Log in
The Daily Sceptic
No Result
View All Result
  • Articles
  • About
  • Archive
    • ARCHIVE
    • NEWS ROUND-UPS
  • Podcasts
  • Newsletter
  • Premium
  • Donate
  • Log In
The Daily Sceptic
No Result
View All Result

More Evidence that Natural Immunity Beats Vaccine-Induced Immunity

by Noah Carl
6 October 2021 8:50 AM

I previously wrote about the Israeli study which found that natural immunity provides much better protection against infection than the Pfizer vaccine.

Sivan Gazit and colleagues tracked two groups of people over time: fully vaccinated people who’d never tested positive; and unvaccinated people who had tested positive. Of the 257 cases that were detected at follow-up, 93% occurred in the vaccinated group, and only 7% occurred in the previously infected group.

And indeed, a recent systematic review (which has not yet been peer-reviewed) confirms that natural immunity confers a very high degree of protection against infection. The researchers analysed 10 studies, and found that the “weighted average risk reduction against reinfection was 90.4%”.

Compare this to studies of the vaccines’ efficacy against infection. In July, the Israeli Ministry of Health reported that the Pfizer vaccine’s effectiveness had dropped to just 39%. And a pre-print study by Qatari researchers found that it fell to zero after six months. (Though the vaccines’ efficacy against severe diseases appears to hold up well.)

Adding to the evidence outlined above, there are now studies comparing natural and vaccine-induced immunity at the cellular level.

I should mention that I am not qualified to evaluate the methods used by these studies, so I will have to assume the authors have done things properly. With that qualification in mind, it’s worth briefly discussing what they found.

In a recent paper published in Cell Reports, researchers from Minneapolis compared the memory B cells generated after natural infection versus mRNA vaccination. Memory B cells (MBCs) are part of the adaptive immune system; they are responsible for recognising antigens, and triggering a secondary immune response.

The researchers found that “infection-induced primary MBCs have better antigen-binding capacity and generate more plasmablasts and secondary MBCs of the classical and atypical subsets than vaccine-induced primary MBCs”. As a result, infection-induced MBCs “produce more robust secondary responses”.

In a second study, published as a preprint, researchers from Boston compared the durability and breadth of antibodies after natural infection versus mRNA vaccination. They found that infection-induced antibodies “exhibited superior stability and cross-variant neutralisation breadth than antibodies induced by a two-dose mRNA regimen”.

In other words, individuals who’d already been infected had better immunity against the then-novel Delta variant, as compared to ‘naïve’ individuals who’d received an mRNA vaccine.

Taken together, the statistical and immunological evidence suggests that natural immunity provides better protection against infection than the mRNA vaccines. This does not mean that nobody stands to benefit from vaccination. The vaccines are still an important way of achieving focused protection for high-risk groups.

But it does undermine the case for vaccine passports, and for vaccinating 12-15 year-olds. As Jay Bhattacharya wrote back in July: “Any infection-blocking effects are probably short-term unless the vaccine does very much better than natural immunity, which is rare in medicine.”

Tags: Natural immunityPfizerVaccine Passports

Donate

We depend on your donations to keep this site going. Please give what you can.

Donate Today

Comment on this Article

You’ll need to set up an account to comment if you don’t already have one. We ask for a minimum donation of £5 if you'd like to make a comment or post in our Forums.

Sign Up
Previous Post

New Lancet Study Confirms Plummeting Vaccine Effectiveness

Next Post

Government Wants to Make Covid Vaccination Mandatory for All Frontline NHS Staff

Subscribe
Login
Notify of
Please log in to comment

To join in with the discussion please make a donation to The Daily Sceptic.

Profanity and abuse will be removed and may lead to a permanent ban.

88 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
ewloe
ewloe
3 years ago

It’s too bad you have to suffer covid19 to acquire natural immunity.

2
-94
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

But if you risk the clot-shot you STILL risk getting SARS2.

82
0
Aleajactaest
Aleajactaest
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

I’ll take my chances with a 1.3% chance vs approx x2 adverse affect/death from jab chance (UK yellow card- underreported rates)

death rates.png
48
-1
Smelly Melly
Smelly Melly
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

What about the vast majority (the government themselves said 80% don’t know they have it) who have achieved natural immunity. In 19 months I don’t personally know of anybody who has died of or with covid, but I have personally know of 10 deaths in that time period. I have know several people who have tested positive some with very serious health conditions and all have survived.

One covid survivor I know of is in her 90’s has advanced dementure, has had several mini strokes, is doubly incontinent and can only lie looking at the ceiling. Her own daughter said she should of died but she got over it.

Last edited 3 years ago by Smelly Melly
49
0
Margaret
Margaret
3 years ago
Reply to  Smelly Melly

I was just typing exactly the same point when your post appeared SM. Seven of my friends and neighbours, all double jabbed, have tested positive. Two passed it on to their children.

45
0
RickH
RickH
3 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

Yes – this is the sort of observational evidence that is emerging more and more. My double-jabbed DiL – 30s – is currently suffering quite a bad bout, with no sign of ameliorated symptoms (unless you play the ‘Well – it could have been worse’ card of failure to substantiate the symptom claim.)

22
0
Dave Angel Eco Warrier
Dave Angel Eco Warrier
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

But most people haven’t ‘suffered’ at all even if they’ve contracted Covid. Everyone (even many sceptics) have more or less claimed they have had Covid on the back of a flawed testing system. There has been no professional diagnosis whatsoever. Before all this most people used to say they ‘have’ a cold but now it’s ‘suffering’ from one. Sure, many people have geuinely been ill but it is not a given.

39
0
mishmash
mishmash
3 years ago
Reply to  Dave Angel Eco Warrier

Too many are suffering from victim complex.

Last edited 3 years ago by mishmash
14
0
Rogerborg
Rogerborg
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

Yes, it is. But if you have, then there is no case for receiving doses of an experimental treatment that you don’t need and which can harm you, and especially not for enforcing pharmaceutical apartheid.

43
0
NonCompliant
NonCompliant
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

Suffer? Majority of healthy people under 70 don’t suffer at all. The worst it got for me was high fevers and a few aches.

I’m all for personal choice. If you are terrified then by all means take it and ‘suffer’ when you catch it then lol.

44
0
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  NonCompliant

You vaccine dodgers are run by Big paracetamol and big phenylamine (and perhaps big kettle)!

When I got covid it took nearly an entire pack of generic lemsip (costing 1 POUND!) and an afternoon where I couldn’t work and 2 other days of feeling tired!

It was almost as bad as a stag-do hangover.

61
0
Mogwai
Mogwai
3 years ago
Reply to  TheyLiveAndWeLockdown

Heehee, high 5!!

8
0
TheBluePill
TheBluePill
3 years ago
Reply to  TheyLiveAndWeLockdown

Good old phenylephrine (which I think you were referring to). An excellent example of pharmaceutical madness. Time and time again, studies have shown it to be completely useless as a decongestant (except in studies made by the manufacturer!). It was a replacement for pseudoephedrine, because people were making crystal meth with that. But still we persist with buying it in lemsip etc, even though pseudoephedrine is available at the pharmacy.

There are parallels with continued use of the ineffective clotshots, while surpressing drugs that actually work.

Last edited 3 years ago by TheBluePill
4
0
TreeHugger
TreeHugger
3 years ago
Reply to  NonCompliant

My mum is 73 and already has an illness that causes strokes and was supposed to have done for her by now. She had covid in spring 20. She was out of action for a week and took a month to feel 100% She says she’s had worse cases of flu back in her 40s.

14
0
SJR
SJR
3 years ago
Reply to  NonCompliant

When I got it, I got the ‘real deal’ – haywire sense of taste, loss of smell, fever, cold sweats, chronic cough, fatigue and loss of appetite. The only thing I didn’t get was any major breathing issues. Two weeks of really bad symptoms, and a couple of weeks to recover after that. I’ve still got a slight cough weeks later, but I’m mostly back to normal now.

So it hits different people differently – like many diseases. Funnily enough my 20 year old daughter got it worse than I did.

However, I’m still glad I didn’t take the vaccine, and I also took an antibody test, so have proof I have had it and have the antibodies.

16
0
realarthurdent
realarthurdent
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

I suppose you are a new troll, or perhaps just an old one with a different username.

But I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and answer your point sincerely, just this once.

I had COVID-19 at Easter. It involved one night of fever, a cough for a couple of days, and a week of tiredness. Little different to the average cold. I only discovered it was COVID-19 belatedly when Mrs Dent persuaded me to do a home LFT test which turned out to be positive.

As Chris Whitty the CMO said last March before he was shown the compromising photographs in the A4 manila envelope (or whatever else was done to change his mind) “For most people this will be a mild illness with few or no symptoms”.

So it really isn’t so bad to “suffer” covid19 and if we had stuck to the CMO’s original advice and allowed all healthy under 65s to do so the pandemic would have been over by June 2020.

Last edited 3 years ago by realarthurdent
64
0
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

It’s good, not bad

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/pfizer-scientist-your-antibodies-are-probably-better-than-the-vaccination/

  • Nick Karl, Pfizer Scientist: “When somebody is naturally immune — like they got COVID — they probably have more antibodies against the virus…When you actually get the virus, you’re going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus…So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the [COVID] vaccination.”
  • Chris Croce, Pfizer Senior Associate Scientist: “You’re protected for longer” if you have natural COVID antibodies compared to the COVID vaccine.
  • Croce: “I work for an evil corporation…Our organization is run on COVID money.”
  • Rahul Khandke, Pfizer Scientist: “If you have [COVID] antibodies built up, you should be able to prove that you have those built up.”
30
0
Sandra Barwick
Sandra Barwick
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

For most it is a very mild illness, for some, unnoticeable.

20
0
crisisgarden
crisisgarden
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

I wouldn’t call it ‘suffering’ when it comes to children and young people. I’ve watched literally hundreds of kids ‘test positive’ through my work and haven’t seen any serious illness at all. I’ve barely seen anything you could even call illness! And yet here we are ‘vaccinating’ them for something they’ve likely already had, without even bothering to check whether they already have immunity. Disgusting, and utter madness.

48
0
thirts
thirts
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

If the daily infection rate data is to be believed then everyone is the UK has probably been had Covid. It was running at over 100,000 daily infections last year, which is a million people every 10 days – and that is only the people being tested. Therefore by now most of the population must have been infected. Again that is based on us believing the daily infection rate propaganda

19
0
brachiopod
brachiopod
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

Indeed.
But whose fault is that?
Not only has there been no ‘official’ treatment protocol in place from the time of first symptoms, but there has been a concerted campaign of ‘wait for the vaccine, only go to A&E when your lips turn blue’, coupled with the active denial of antiviral treatments that have been proved to work in other countries.
As has been remarked elsewhere, if an oncologist was found to be refusing to see or treat patients until they were at least Stage 3, they would be struck off after a huge campaign by the press and broadcast media – but with the SARS-CoV-2 infection that is exactly what hasn’t happened.

19
0
mishmash
mishmash
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

A re-branded cold so mild for the overwhelming majority of people that you need to be fake tested to even know you have it?
Oh what suffering!

Last edited 3 years ago by mishmash
12
0
Milo
Milo
3 years ago
Reply to  mishmash

and which for the majority of the population does not warrant a vaccine let alone one which has the potential to cause so much harm to its recipients and one which people are being coerced to accept on pain of otherwise losing their employment and career

8
0
I am Spartacas
I am Spartacas
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

I have actually ‘suffered’ covid and have therefore acquired natural immunity – all-in-all the symptoms lasted for about 3-4 days – I lounged around the home for a couple of those days feeling sorry for myself before venturing out again and spent my time indoors sleeping, watching day-time television and reading books until I recovered from the flu-like symptoms … which is exactly what it feels like.

While I understand those who are very elderly and vulnerable to the virus taking-up the offer of the jab, personally (being in the very low risk category) I’ll take a few days of covid symptoms and acquiring natural immunity rather than the risks of possible side-effects and mid-long term uncertainty of a jab that has not been fully tested every single time.

16
0
186NO
186NO
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

Care to suggest any other way of acquiring “natural immunity”?

1
0
lorrinet
lorrinet
3 years ago
Reply to  186NO

Perhaps we should have ‘covid parties’, like the ‘measles parties’ we had when we were children, to get it over with and acquire immunity. Like covid, Measles was an unpleasant illness, but in order the get the vaccine rolled out they made much of the extremely few deaths, which occured in already health-compromised children. In all my life and during the lives of my children I never knew of a single case of death from measles.

Like chicken-pox and mumps, measles was inevitable, you got it then got over it. In the opinion of many of us, these illnesses served a very useful purpose in the building of strong immune systems. For all the vaccines today, children don’t seem any healthier, in fact such things as autism and asthma and hayfever – also the endless allergies largely unheard of in my day, seem to be reaching epidemic proportions. Whoever heard of a ‘nut’ allergy, or ‘lactose intolerance’ forty years ago?

I believe Big Pharma has done untold harm to humanity…and don’t even get me started on my dogs annual jabs.

5
0
lorrinet
lorrinet
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

I had a bad dose of covid but for my son and daughter it was no worse than a heavy cold and gone within a week. My husband coughed a few times and that was it.

0
0
tom171uk
tom171uk
3 years ago
Reply to  ewloe

Suffer? Apparently some do. Most don’t. I have had it. A number of my friends and family have had it. None of us have “suffered”.

0
0
Sforzesca
Sforzesca
3 years ago

And in other shock news…..

15
0
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago

Add this to the mix.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264262v1

No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant
We found no significant difference in cycle threshold values between vaccinated and unvaccinated, asymptomatic and symptomatic groups infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta.

Coerced Mass Jabbing has been a terrible mistake.

Last edited 3 years ago by TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
36
0
FrankFisher
FrankFisher
3 years ago
Reply to  TheyLiveAndWeLockdown

“mistake”

2
0
Waffle
Waffle
3 years ago

Pfizer Scientist: ‘Your Antibodies are Probably Better than the Vaccination’

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/pfizer-scientist-your-antibodies-are-probably-better-than-the-vaccination/

31
0
Mark
Mark
3 years ago

Even the scientists employed by Pfizer admit this privately.

In truth, it’s a disgrace that this was ever seriously disputed – raising claims that it could be the other way around was purely speculative, and given the context clearly done purely in order o deceive people into taking the vaccine. Which makes everyone who did so – scientists, journalist, doctors, politicians, online bullshitters etc – liars or dupes of liars.

Most of them undoubtedly believed they were telling a Noble Lie. But they are liars nonetheless, and should be recognised as such.

Last edited 3 years ago by Mark
46
0
Sandra Barwick
Sandra Barwick
3 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Most of them undoubtedly thought the lies they were telling would help their careers.

17
0
Dodgy Geezer
Dodgy Geezer
3 years ago
Reply to  Sandra Barwick

NOT telling lies has certainly damaged my career…

14
0
chas cowie
chas cowie
3 years ago
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer

Mine as well, but I wouldn’t ever do it any differently.

0
0
Mark
Mark
3 years ago
Reply to  Sandra Barwick

In my experience, human beings generally have a remarkable ability to convince themselves that things that promote their own careers etc also promote the general greater good.

13
0
Hugh
Hugh
3 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Hmm, hence the issue with conflicts of interest – widespread throughout this shambles.

3
0
steve_z
steve_z
3 years ago

if the vaccines are so good at preventing severe disease and death, they should have given them to the vulnerable worldwide rather than going for children, pets and potplants

32
0
NonCompliant
NonCompliant
3 years ago

Have a word with PHE please Noah. Technical Briefing 24 is still not publicly available. It should have been release last Friday!

17-23 wasn’t a great marketing tool for the ‘vaccines’. If we ever get to see 24 I think it might be a doozy !!!!

16
0
Freecumbria
Freecumbria
3 years ago
Reply to  NonCompliant

Is this not it?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-sars-cov-2-variants-technical-briefings

4
0
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  NonCompliant

Cases, hospitalisation, attendance and deaths by vaccination status are now presented in the COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report and therefore this data will not be produced in future editions of the variant technical briefing. 

I think you’re right they’re trying to cover it up.
From document linked from Freecumbria

12
0
Freecumbria
Freecumbria
3 years ago
Reply to  TheyLiveAndWeLockdown

Well spotted.

The latest (week 39) vaccine surveillance report is here

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-surveillance-reports

And the previous ones (19 to 38) are here

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccine-surveillance-report

Last edited 3 years ago by Freecumbria
7
0
Ross Hendry
Ross Hendry
3 years ago

What nonsense. You’d have to be a congenital moron to think that natural immunity can beat the effectiveness of the jabs dreamt up by the smart arses boys at Big Pharma.

20
0
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  Ross Hendry

There’s a lot of faked studies and press releases for “congenital moron” journalists to resell.

We should internet archive them before they are memory holed as they are evidence of fraud.

14
0
timsk
timsk
3 years ago
Reply to  Ross Hendry

Lol!
The self-assured hubris of the scientists and big pharma who think they can beat mother nature at her own game is simply jaw dropping. That said, the only ‘scientists’ I’ve heard who make this claim are usually behavioural psychologists who know less about virology, epidemiology etc. than I do!

18
0
Sandra Barwick
Sandra Barwick
3 years ago
Reply to  timsk

It’s not hubris, it’s fraud.
The hubris lies in thinking they can get away with it.

19
0
Aleajactaest
Aleajactaest
3 years ago
Reply to  Sandra Barwick

from hubris comes nemesis

5
0
timsk
timsk
3 years ago
Reply to  Sandra Barwick

I stand corrected, Sandra! 😉

0
0
robwallser
robwallser
3 years ago
Reply to  Sandra Barwick

They have got away with it !!

0
0
RW
RW
3 years ago
Reply to  timsk

Or genetic engineers. It’s the very raison d’etre of their profession.

0
0
robwallser
robwallser
3 years ago
Reply to  Ross Hendry

Oh sarcasm i hope

1
0
Ross Hendry
Ross Hendry
3 years ago
Reply to  robwallser

Correct 🙂

1
0
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-10-los-angeles-poised-strict-vaccination.html

LA to coerce vaccination while it ignores deliberately spreading AIDS and shitting in the street,

7
0
Dodgy Geezer
Dodgy Geezer
3 years ago

This does not mean that nobody stands to benefits from vaccination. The vaccines are still an important way of achieving focussed protection for high-risk groups.

Current Covid vaccination has a positive cost-benefit for people above 80 who have not yet had the disease.

For people 40-80 who have not yet had the disease there is a marginal positive benefit – but so low that taking an extra trip to a doctor’s surgery probably wipes it out.

For people 20-40 who have not yet had the disease there is essentially no positive benefit.

For people below 20 who have not yet had the disease there is a very low negative cost-benefit.

For anyone who has had the disease there is a very low negative cost-benefit.

.

22
0
Mark
Mark
3 years ago
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer

Not sure those positions factor in the “unknown unknowns” of potential longer term harmful effects of this new kind of treatment. That said, factoring in such uncertainties is necessarily very subjective.

For me, and I would say for anyone decent, there are additional maluses to taking the “vaccines”:

Giving in to coercion and lies

Leaving unsupported those resisting giving in to said coercion and lies

Directly rewarding some of those involved in pushing the panic.

Helping those responsible for all the evil and harms of the covid panic response cover up their misfeasance.

14
0
Ruth Learner
Ruth Learner
3 years ago
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer

I would say these are not vaccines in the sense of protecting anybody from anything that other treatments can’t do better, safer and cheaper (as per Zeneco and many similar nuanced protocols) – nobody on earth should have been given these toxins and we have no real idea how many old vulnerable and sick people they have killed but from the data of the first rollouts I would say many many more than saved – these and lockdowns are a form of murder and the corporate government and its apparatchiks should be on trial

7
0
Dodgy Geezer
Dodgy Geezer
3 years ago

The most useful thing to do for a population at risk from Covid is to ensure that they have adequate vitamin D.

And yet the government and the media have not put out any public health message about this. They seem to have avoided saying that ANYTHING would be protective, beyond the unholy trinity of masks, lockdown and vaccination.

In particular, HCQ and Invermectin have been demonised and removed from the pharmacopoeia.

This odd strategy can be explained by assuming that the government has defined its strategy as requiring total vaccination, and is suppressing any alternatives which may threaten this.

I suspect that this is due to Big Pharma having taken over the reins of power…

33
0
Ross Hendry
Ross Hendry
3 years ago
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer

Quite definitely. They have taken over the reins of power – worldwide. It’s not easy to see how this can be corrected, other than by full exposure (assuming the MSM would cover it).
Reiner Fuellmich’s growing court cases will help but it’s going to take time.

14
0
Hugh
Hugh
3 years ago
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer

“Adequate vitamin D”. Like in Norway and Finland. Those rigged vitamin D trials we had are one of the biggest disgraces of this shambles. Big Pharma have been trying to influence politics for years, as I have pointed out before.

5
0
Dodgy Geezer
Dodgy Geezer
3 years ago

I should mention that I am not qualified to evaluate the methods used by these studies, so I will have to assume the authors have done things properly.

1 – You do NOT need qualifications to evaluate statistical methods, or, indeed, perform any function humans are capable of. You need an understanding of what you are doing, and probably some experience.

2 – Most technical papers nowadays are poor, biased and inaccurate. They are no longer written to further knowledge, but to further careers. Our only defence against this it to treat ALL papers with great suspicion – those which support our beliefs as well as those which go against them…

11
0
RickH
RickH
3 years ago

“The vaccines are still an important way of achieving focussed protection for high-risk groups.”

Naive Noah paddling an outdated Ark.

But – of course – if the snake oil finishes you off, it’s one less Covid death. I guess that’s ‘focused protection’.

There needs to be evidence for that assertion, and, by definition the necessary testing on that group has never been done.

… and we already know that natural immunity is more effective (well – it could hardly be less so!)

6
0
BurlingtonBertie
BurlingtonBertie
3 years ago

The authors of the systematic review paper were funded by a company which administers the jabs, making the publication of the paper all the more remarkable. I wonder if it will be deemed fake news & dangerous misinformation once it has been peer reviewed?

9
0
Lucan Grey
Lucan Grey
3 years ago

“Taken together, the statistical and immunological evidence suggests that natural immunity provides better protection against infection than the mRNA vaccines.”

Using an incorrect viewpoint that is comparing apples and pears.

The two ways to sterilised immunity is to catch Covid ‘raw’, or catch Covid having been vaccinated.

The relative risk of injury and death of the first approach is still far higher than it is for the second – even though the absolute risk is still very small overall.

However nobody really knows if the bullet has their name on it until they go through one or the other of these processes. Therefore rationally you would go through the one with the smaller risk in an environment where the disease is endemic – get vaccinated and then catch Covid before it wears off.

The objection to vaccines from people in the comments here is as far out of kilter with the actual risk as it is for Covid fanatics who think there is a 50% chance of them dying if they catch the bug. Two cheeks of the same backside. Both irrational emotional reactions to a situation that requires a cool head.

It is still the case that the only way to sterilising immunity is to catch the disease – one way or the other.

0
-14
Nessimmersion
Nessimmersion
3 years ago
Reply to  Lucan Grey

Thats a fair haul of evidence free assertions there Lucan.
The Indian stats certainly do not tally with your assertion.

9
0
RW
RW
3 years ago
Reply to  Lucan Grey

Obvious open question: Does real-world sterilizing immunity imply immunity against PCR tests?

I’ll also make a point for the opposite: Catching COVID is inavoidable and has – in all likeliness – already happened. Vaccination is avoidable. Neither of both is risk free. Further, people who develop a good immune response due to vaccination would also have developed that good immune response to infection. Which means the best way to deal with COVID is to put resources into medically helping people to cope with it. It’s just not the most profitable way.

11
0
Mark
Mark
3 years ago
Reply to  Lucan Grey

“The objection to vaccines from people in the comments here is as far out of kilter with the actual risk as it is for Covid fanatics who think there is a 50% chance of them dying if they catch the bug. Two cheeks of the same backside. Both irrational emotional reactions to a situation that requires a cool head.”

There are many important objections to taking the “vaccine” that are not based on “it’s going to kill us all”.

Though even on that basis, it’s entirely rational to resist taking an experimental new kind of treatment that we have no long term experience with (by definition ) and which was allowed to bypass the settled precautionary systems we have for such treatments on the basis of panic and a manufactured, spurious “emergency”.

Even if (as is the case for me) you are pretty confident any risks are probably small, one should arguably still decline on principle, in order to resist the precedents that are being set – which imo are far more important than the tiny risks of either covid or these “vaccines” (most likely).

13
0
A Heretic
A Heretic
3 years ago
Reply to  Lucan Grey

the vaccine is more likely to kill or permanently injure me than covid, that’s all I need to know.

14
0
Will
Will
3 years ago
Reply to  Lucan Grey

The relative risk of catching covid “raw” depends on age, comorbidities and numerous other factors.

4
0
PartyTime
PartyTime
3 years ago
Reply to  Lucan Grey

The two ways to sterilised immunity

There’s a third way which is to catch COVID and treat it early. Spanish doctors were able to prevent any hospitalisations or deaths at all in two care homes where almost all of the 84 elderly residents caught COVID (as proved by antibody tests) in the first wave. They just used very low-cost antihistamines and antibiotics. Without treatment 20% of those care home residents would likely have died. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7833340/

8
0
FrankFisher
FrankFisher
3 years ago
Reply to  PartyTime

We have never had sterilizing immunity to any other coronavirus, I doubt we can achieve it with covid.

0
0
WorriedCitizen
WorriedCitizen
3 years ago

Who needs ‘evidence’ when Pfizer scientists admit it:

https://youtu.be/Uj2Ia9GlIM4

7
0
WorriedCitizen
WorriedCitizen
3 years ago

Whilst we are all encouraged to fight as to which is better, natural or not it is to miss the point. All this does is play their game of division which makes us weaker and them stronger. It has zero to with health as we already know.

Last edited 3 years ago by WorriedCitizen
7
0
RW
RW
3 years ago

When measuring an effect which must be unrelated to its supposed cause, all outcomes are bound to happen: Neither vaccination nor prior infection provides any immunity against PCR tests. But as these do not matter, that’s of little consequence.

The assumption that number must mean something because they’re number is wrong.

3
0
robwallser
robwallser
3 years ago

Whats the good of proof if the government still want vaccine passports

Last edited 3 years ago by robwallser
4
0
robwallser
robwallser
3 years ago

More health/hygene theatre.. ” look how careful we are being despite having the highest death toll in the world”but then again that was only because we were desperate to make the whole thing look worse thatn it was and cooked the figures .So now we are being obsessively careful just because we made the situation up and know it doesnt really require this nonsense …. unbelievable !!!!!!

6
0
SimCS
SimCS
3 years ago

And also: https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/pfizer-scientists-in-undercover-videos-say-natural-immunity-likely-better-than-covid-19-vaccination_4034713.html

0
0
SimCS
SimCS
3 years ago
Reply to  SimCS

…and… https://gellerreport.com/2021/10/pfizer-scientist-antibodies-are-probably-better-than-covid-vaccine.html/

0
0
FrankFisher
FrankFisher
3 years ago

Vaccine passports aren’t to control the virus, they’re to control us.

Are there people who still don’t accept this?

6
0
isobar
isobar
3 years ago
Reply to  FrankFisher

Unfortunately yes. There are none so blind as those who cannot see.

0
0
lorrinet
lorrinet
3 years ago

Had this been an honest government instead of one deep in the pockets of Big Pharma, covid antibody tests would have been rolled out across the country.The fact that they banned them (our local pharmacy was threatened with closure if they continued to offer blood tests) was proof for me that a scam was in progress, because their excuse that ‘if people know they’ve had it they’ll stop wearing masks’ was such a load of boloxx. Up to that point I’d been going along with the narrative ‘just in case’.

I’m extremely offended that our elected politicians obviously believe we are all so ****ing stupid. Then again, as I count the number of idiots I’ve met over these months…..

1
0
isobar
isobar
3 years ago
Reply to  lorrinet

Yes there are a lot of strange people around. However I don’t think that they are necessarily idiots, just completely brainwashed. Why for example would a couple eating al fresco at a local pub that my wife and were at insist on being masked until their drinks came and then proceed to sanitise their table and their umbrella shaft before their food came?

0
0
isobar
isobar
3 years ago

As a word of warning, I received this as a text last night.

NHS: We have identified that you are eligible to apply for your Covid Pass. You can apply this here: https://vaccine-status-id2.com

It’s one of a number of Covid Pass scams that are currently doing the rounds!

Last edited 3 years ago by isobar
1
0
isobar
isobar
3 years ago

Had anyone got an explanation or theory why our UK positive tests seem to have been stuck on a plateau for a while now. This doesn’t seem to be following the pattern that one might expect. For example, is it really driven by schools going back or are are PCR tests picking up the cold that is currently doing the rounds?

Last edited 3 years ago by isobar
0
0
Andrew Lathom
Andrew Lathom
3 years ago

Noah – why have not even addressed this data?
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/can-you-get-covid-19-more-than-once/
“a study that shows that unvaccinated people are 2.34 times more likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who are fully vaccinated”
Seems awfully relevant to the discussion, if you’re not just trying to give anti-vaxers more excuses. Thanks.

0
0
QuodVerumTutum
QuodVerumTutum
3 years ago

Begs the question of how to get immunity without being killed by Covid-19. The elderly don’t have the luxury of trying to find out. Vaccination is a much better option.

0
0
John
John
3 years ago

Relevant to the OP.

How COVID-19 indemnified experimental mRNA injections aka ‘vaccines’ are killing and injuring people:

“… The fundamental change discovered by Weissman and Kariko was that nucleoside modification could protect mRNA from the body’s immune defences: …

… This discovery was adopted in the mRNA technology used in Covid vaccines, in order that the foreign vaccine mRNA could enter cells without being destroyed. …”

12th September 2021
Stabilising the Code | UKColumn
https://www.ukcolumn.org/index.php/article/stabilising-the-code
https://archive.vn/liR6t

“… In the new study, the researchers created a “pseudovirus” that was surrounded by SARS-CoV-2 classic crown of spike proteins, but did not contain any actual virus. Exposure to this pseudovirus resulted in damage to the lungs and arteries of an animal model—proving that the spike protein alone was enough to cause disease. Tissue samples showed inflammation in endothelial cells lining the pulmonary artery walls. …”

By Salk Institute May 2, 2021
COVID-19 Is a Vascular Disease: Coronavirus’ Spike Protein Attacks Vascular System on a Cellular Level
https://scitechdaily.com/covid-19-is-a-vascular-disease-coronavirus-spike-protein-attacks-vascular-system-on-a-cellular-level/
https://archive.fo/qIRr3

The Circulation Research study cited in the above scitechdaily.com article:

Originally published 31 Mar 2021
SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE 2 | Circulation Research
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.121.318902
https://archive.ph/Vwyiy

“The study was conducted for Pfizer by Japanese researchers. Bridle said its results are backed up by a paper just accepted for publication reporting that 11 of 13 young health workers who received two doses of the Moderna RNA vaccine showed detectable levels of the virus protein in their blood within a day of their first injection.”

June 7, 2021
Vaccine scientist: ‘We’ve made a big mistake’ – The Conservative Woman
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/vaccine-researcher-weve-made-a-big-mistake/
https://archive.fo/dcdAW
https://archive.vn/dcdAW

The paper mentioned by Dr Byram Bridle:

20 May 2021
Circulating Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) Vaccine Antigen Detected in the Plasma of mRNA-1273 Vaccine Recipients | Clinical Infectious Diseases | Oxford Academic
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab465/6279075
https://archive.fo/BcTO4

The following C.H.D. piece includes the ON Point with Alex Pierson interview with Dr Byram Bridle quoted in the above The Conservative Woman article:

06/03/21
‘We Made a Big Mistake’ — COVID Vaccine Spike Protein Travels From Injection Site, Can Cause Organ Damage • Children’s Health Defense
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/covid-vaccine-spike-protein-travels-from-injection-site-organ-damage/

Backup copies of the ON Point with Alex Pierson interview with Dr Byram Bridle quoted in the above The Conservative Woman article:

May 27, 2021
New peer reviewed study on COVID-19 vaccines suggests why heart inflammation, blood clots and other dangerous side effects occur – ON Point with Alex Pierson – Omny.fm
https://omny.fm/shows/on-point-with-alex-pierson/new-peer-reviewed-study-on-covid-19-vaccines-sugge

Immunologist Dr. Bridle – Damage From Spike Proteins Proof
https://www.brighteon.com/embed/7481bf80-d967-48d1-8dea-4c2ea219296e

The By Salk Institute May 2, 2021 scitechdaily.com article discovery credit:

June 17, 2021
The Killer in the Bloodstream: the “Spike Protein” – Global Research
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-killer-in-the-bloodstream-the-spike-protein/5747572
https://archive.vn/2n7qQ

All of the above research has been available to health and governmental authorities since March 2021. Yet the campaign to coerce the public into accepting these clearly toxic ‘vaccines’ continues to escalate via mandates, threats of job loss, aggressive law enforcement actions and the imposition of ‘vaccine’ passports while a compliant – and cowardly – corporate media increasingly vilifies those who dare to oppose this homicidal agenda.

One would have to be a myopic coincidence theorist to not see the calculated deliberation behind this criminal assault upon common humanity.

0
0
texluh
texluh
3 years ago

I am really interested in finding out whether you can gain all the benefits of natural immunity if you catch covid many months after having the vaccine.

0
0

NEWSLETTER

View today’s newsletter

To receive our latest news in the form of a daily email, enter your details here:

DONATE

PODCAST

The End of American Empire? – With Doug Stokes

by Richard Eldred
2 May 2025
6

LISTED ARTICLES

  • Most Read
  • Most Commented
  • Editors Picks

BREAKING: Merz Government Orders Pushback of All Illegal Migrants at German Borders, Effectively Abolishing Asylum

7 May 2025
by Eugyppius

Sun-Dimming Quango has £800 Million of Taxpayer Money to Blow – and a CEO on £450k

8 May 2025
by Sallust

News Round-Up

8 May 2025
by Richard Eldred

Orsted Cancels Hornsea 4 Wind Farm – and Kills Miliband’s ‘Clean Power 2030’ Agenda Dead

7 May 2025
by David Turver

Voters Reject Net Zero, Opinion Poll Shows

8 May 2025
by Will Jones

What Does Renaud Camus Actually Believe? Part Two: Is He Really a Conspiracy Theorist?

28

News Round-Up

18

EXCLUSIVE: Britain Forced to Spend £1.5 Billion to Mitigate Wind Turbine Corruptions to Vital Air Defence Radar

17

Sun-Dimming Quango has £800 Million of Taxpayer Money to Blow – and a CEO on £450k

14

Orsted Cancels Hornsea 4 Wind Farm – and Kills Miliband’s ‘Clean Power 2030’ Agenda Dead

41

The Sugar Tax Sums Up Our Descent into Technocratic Dystopia

8 May 2025
by Dr David McGrogan

Australia’s Liberal Party Only Has Itself to Blame for its Crushing Defeat by Labour

8 May 2025
by Dr James Allan

EXCLUSIVE: Britain Forced to Spend £1.5 Billion to Mitigate Wind Turbine Corruptions to Vital Air Defence Radar

8 May 2025
by Chris Morrison

What Does Renaud Camus Actually Believe? Part Two: Is He Really a Conspiracy Theorist?

8 May 2025
by Steven Tucker

BREAKING: Merz Government Orders Pushback of All Illegal Migrants at German Borders, Effectively Abolishing Asylum

7 May 2025
by Eugyppius

POSTS BY DATE

October 2021
M T W T F S S
 123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031
« Sep   Nov »

SOCIAL LINKS

Free Speech Union
  • Home
  • About us
  • Donate
  • Privacy Policy

Facebook

  • X

Instagram

RSS

Subscribe to our newsletter

© Skeptics Ltd.

Welcome Back!

Login to your account below

Forgotten Password? Register

Create New Account!

Please note: To be able to comment on our articles you'll need to be a registered donor

Already have an account?
Please click here to login Log In

Retrieve your password

Please enter your username or email address to reset your password.

Log In
wpDiscuz
No Result
View All Result
  • Articles
  • About
  • Archive
    • ARCHIVE
    • NEWS ROUND-UPS
  • Podcasts
  • Newsletter
  • Premium
  • Donate
  • Log In

© Skeptics Ltd.

You are going to send email to

Move Comment
Perfecty
Do you wish to receive notifications of new articles?
Notifications preferences