Hamburg has become the first German city to tell a range of venues, including restaurants, clubs and, according to some reports, religious institutions, that they are permitted to bar unvaccinated residents. Mandates will also apply to workers within these organisations. Those that decide not to introduce vaccine passes will be forced to continue enforcing other restrictive policies. The Local has the story.
German states on Monday moved to a uniform Covid health pass system which allows entry to many public spaces, such as indoor dining, only to people who’ve been vaccinated, have recovered from Covid or have been tested against Covid. It’s known as the ‘3G model’ in Germany.
But on Tuesday, Hamburg announced it will introduce a ‘2G option model’ for event organisers and business owners – effectively banning unvaccinated people.
It means venue and event bosses will be allowed to offer their services and allow entry only to people who are fully vaccinated or have recovered from Covid within the last six months. Those who are eligible for vaccination but haven’t got it will not be allowed to enter.
Businesses have to let the city know if they plan to use the 2G entry system.
The obligation to provide proof also applies to employees working on the premises in question, said the Senate.
Under 2G, businesses will not need the same hygiene regulations. It will allow bosses, for instance, to admit more guests or offer a free choice of seating without mandatory spacing requirements. However, masks will remain compulsory in all indoor settings.
The 2G option will be launched on Saturday. Organisers can also opt for the 3G model – but if they do, they will have to follow previous Covid restrictions, such as caps on the amount of people who can attend.
The 2G or 3G option is aimed at theatres, cinemas, trade fair operators, restaurants, hotels, swimming pools and fitness studios, among other businesses.
Organisers of sporting events with visitors, public festivals or educational courses should also be able to exclude unvaccinated people if they want to, said the Hamburg Senate.
The Senate said operators will face heavy fines if they do not check for proof of vaccination or recovery (or a negative test if it’s a 3G event).
Worth reading in full.
Discussion
Comments
This week across the site:
To join in with the discussion please make a donation to the Daily Sceptic.
Profanity and abuse will be removed and may lead to a permanent ban.
So if you exclude the unjabbed, you can have more people in your venue, that’s people who according to several national health boards have viral loads at least as high as the jabbed when infected, and are likely to have their symptoms suppressed.
This is going to end well, I can see.
Hamburg.Com states “The 2G rule is much safer in comparison with 3G, because testing does not guarantee the same level of protection against COVID-19 as full vaccination does.”. Except, well, that is a load of cobblers. It then goes on to say the usual crap measures are more effective and still important, so no change other than Apartheid. Where are the yellow stars? Do the Unclean have to wear stripey suits?
What’s Important: COVID-19 Regulations in Hamburg – hamburg.com
I suppose the so called leaders have invested a lot in the vaccines, both financially, politically and emotionally. It’s going to take them a while to come to terms with the undeniable fact that they don’t really work. I further suppose that politicians being the type who are unable to admit mistakes, instead preferring to double down, will have to learn the hard way, or rather the poor long suffering electorate will.
I note for either absurd model the use of masks is mandatory which is simply because the not vaccines do bugger all to stop you catching or passing on Covid. Most people surely know this by now so why do authorities persist with crap like this?
The Germans have always had a penchant on citizens producing their papers!
Together Declaration opposing vax-passports in the UK. Got an e-mail about this earlier today. Not sure how much good it will do but I think it is better than the standard on-line petitions the HMG continually ignores. I have signed and would recommend others do likewise.
https://togetherdeclaration.org/
I hope the ATL crew will pick up on this and support it.
I am from Hamburg and love the city.
I am so sad.
I hear that businesses are not happy.
They will be even less happy when snitches/controllers are sent to fine them for not checking these passports. Already happening in Cyprus, BTW. Basically, these people are being involuntarily converted into police, and harassed by the real police if they fail to comply/collaborate.
These businesses should go bust…and serves them right…!
Any business or place of worship that introduces this ugly, irrational policy should be targeted for special attention.
It’s voluntary but we’ll make your business so difficult to run that you WILL do as we tell you. And your “insurance agent” will now come round on Mondays. Pay up or else.
No logic or awareness of real science; vaxxed and unvaxxed can transmit and perhaps they havn’t heard that masks do nothing useful! These idiots want to run every aspect of our lives.
The official press release from Lower Saxony simply states that “there is no risk originating from vaccinated and recovered individuals”. They also state that the current low number of hospitalizations is “of course due to the high vaccination rate”. When it comes to making up policies, these people now are basically lying and pulling things out of their ass without even bothering to provide any sort of “scientific” reference.
Why is it so darned difficult for a journalist to ask a politcian or a SAGE advisor or equivalent every time they talk to one to ask the following
As is acknolwledged the vaccine does not prevent a person contracting or indeed transmitting the Covid virus, but it can reduce the symptoms. So why is it such a priority to you and the government to inject all the Adult and now it appears the children in the population when the risk to the non vulnerable is so low? What is the incentive?
Well, the official story is that with delta around 1% of unvaccinated kids may end up in hospital (supposedly already happening in the US).
Hospitality on its knees. Do you really think they could give a toss about anyone’s vaxx status especially now we know the vaxx are a total failure and you now need? a third jab. Oh and when the next variant begins after the third jab……you will need a fourth jab. Let’s keep this jab party going til you die. I still don’t know one person who got Covid and died, the oldest being age 87 and not in good health. Like all of us, I know more people who took the Covid vaxx getting Covid.
Businesses given ‘choice’ to bar *(insert minority group here)* FIGHT. BACK. BETTER. – updated useful information, resources and links: https://www.LCAHub.org/
Fascistbook slapped a ‘false information’ sticker on this
Um. Well, our German cousins do have form for this sort of thing. Perhaps, to save time, the unvaccinated could wear a little badge or armband to clarify their “unclean” status?
It’s already been done in Europa Park (an entertainment park) where visitors were given color-coded wristbands depending on their vaccination status, to make it easier for park employees to tell them apart. After complaints, the park removed this innovation, but still… no shit.
If the government ever tells our church to require a “vaxport”, negative test or proof of immunity to worship, we will go underground. Again.
Sheets on the hedgerows. It’s not too soon to make a plan.
There will be a whole new church underground, like the Methodist and Quaker movements of old. It will be needed when sanity returns, because the existing churches are dead, dead and rotten, and none stinks worse than the corpse of the CofE under Jellybaby.
I made the decision months ago to ‘go underground’ if these accursed, evil and satanic ‘vaxports’ are required at churches.
At the weekend a small group of us had a social weekend together. One of our number has a ‘barn’ and I was keen to see it. On seeing it, one of us remarked that it had good acoustics for hymns.
Just opposite this barn, literally on the other side of the road, barely 100 feet away, there was a church, which is now closed. Some church committee other is ‘considering its future’.
Rest assured that churches will not be mandated anything any soon. The government is very careful not to cross their best stupidity promoting allies.
Sad to say that France has been a 2G country for almost a month now.
And its of interest perhaps that the best selling book this summer in France is…. Mein Kampf.
Less than 4 weeks to our ‘great escape’ attempt.
They do have form.
They haven’t learnt much from their past then have they? What next, camps for the ‘unclean’?
I continually get the feeling that I’ve fallen through some kind of time warp gap and am living in another version of the 1920s and 30s; hope the nightmare is over before we get to the 1940s as I hate to think what the situation will be like then.
For all practical purposes, the Germany of today is a partially souvereign US-protectorate. Hence, the heavily brainwashed leaders of post-national Germany will dutifully implement whatever happens to be implemented on the mothership, provided the good Americans, ie the Democrats, do it. As there’s no effective opposition to this general course, oftentimes, they’ll do what the more radical US politicians they’re copying don’t (yet) dare to do.
Thanks for this: one thing I find sad in the commentary even here (a place where I am in 99% agreement with the commenters) is casual negative references to ‘the US’ and “Americans.” In fact, we are bitterly divided here: somewhat between Democrats and Repubs, but much more poignantly between Globalists and America First-ers. (And, ironically perhaps, America First-ers are much better brothers and friends to regular non-Americans than the other lot.)
Totally agree. C19 is being used to deepen the divide, and the globalists are using it to create a pathway to their zero carbon dream ( or should that be nightmare). Its not just state by state, but counties by counties, cities by cities within states.
If the House swings red in the mid-terms and Trump gets out of DeSantis’ way for the WH , all may not be lost.
My impression is that the climate oppression is for the ultrarich to finally enjoy their wealth. What joy does wealth bring to a psychopath if everyone else can practically afford the same luxuries? What fun is there going to a beach or some exotic place if it’s full of low-class proles? Or if the air smells of smog? So much better to keep those slaves chained to their workplaces. Only then the royalty can enjoy a full life as it used to a few hundred years ago. In fact, you could get rid of many laborers altogether when robots get smart enough – more Lebensraum for the elites.
I should add this vision has very strong historical parallels – not so long ago servants were not supposed to toil in sight of ladies and lords, but were rather confined to their own mediocre living spaces. I think that sort of feudalism and total control of other people’s lives is what the ultrarich wannabe masters of universe are sorely missing in their modern life.
It’s nothing to do with a virus, or even a vaccine, and everything to do with a vaccine passport … or rather Digital ID, digital currency and control.
Right, and the digital ID, stored on the same “smart” phone which contains your “permissions”, will be inevitably necessary in order for fool-proof automatic electronic admission gates (rather than bothered and unreliable identity checking personnel) to become a reality. Kind of like self-check in when boarding a flight. Wet dream of Bill Gates and his mobsters, imagine how safe we will feel having to check in at every doorway. At some point, of course, it will be done RFID/Bluetooth just by passing through, no need to wave your phone at a sensor – it will fade out of people’s perception – until, of course, they see that red “access denied” (or “transaction rejected”) sign blinking in front of them.
I see that PHE are now claiming that over 100k lives have been saved by vaccines.
MSM are reporting this uncritically and do not explain how the data was produced. They lack the analytical savvy or desire to ask such questions. Too intellectual for them.
I believe the claim is based on models that compare actual deaths with a constructed, hypothetical “no vaccine” baseline.
Clearly, that can be manipulated. And no doubt was.
I would love to see a Daily Sceptic analysis of this claim.
The government has done this throughout the past 18 months. This restriction has saved X number of lives, and that restriction has saved Y number of lives.
The numbers all appear to be produced as you say – substract the actual deaths figure (which is itself probably inflated by various means) from a hypothetical model. They never, ever seem to calibrate the models against the actual real-world data, and are always keen to ignore the few countries / states which don’t impose restrictions as they seemingly have no explanation as to why the numbers in those places are well below where the hypothetical models say they should be (and are in fact normally no worse than places with restrictions)
The problem is that the gullible frightened masses swallow it all whole
It’s such a load of bs. It doesn’t matter if they claim to have “saved” 1 life or 1m lives. No ones life is saved as they haven’t invented a cure for death!
If it’s possible that you could calculate the number of QALYs that have been gained (if any) by preventing premature covid deaths then I guarantee you that it’ll still be far less than the QALYs that have been lost due to all the collateral damage.
I wonder how many have been lost through the suppression of viable prophylactics
We just have to make a model that shows 100,000 lives lost due to lockdown.
It’s not hard the government admit to 75,000 cancer deaths increase.
In QALY terms the death toll from lockdown DWARFS SARS.
67% of delta covid deaths are among vaccinated. 48% of cases among vaccinated.
https://twitter.com/vonbrauckmann/status/1430902904995516423?s=20
For a proper comparison and risk vs reward assessment the stats need to be much more fine-grained in terms of age bands and they need to include some categories for underlying state of health.
Correct. This is but the latest in a trail of duff data. But also note that at face value, the above shows no advantage to being jabbed.
we haven’t even seen what impact ADE will have.
Sooo “fully vaccinated” you still need a face nappy because you can still get it and spread it…which a face nappy doesn’t actually prevent. So “fully vaccinated” you’ll need constant jabs to keep your “passport” up to date, otherwise you’ll NOT be “fully vaccinated”, same as the unvaxxed! I haven’t bothered with any of these places since this crap started. Doing without, doing other things now. We live in another world – that stuff is becoming more and more irrelevant now.
“So “fully vaccinated” you’ll need constant jabs to keep your “passport” up to date ...”
This is what the jab enthusiasts haven’t grasped. The unjabbed may be subjected to apartheid, but they have committed themselves to be held on a leash in perpetuity..
Vaccine victims create user-friendly version of entire VAERS database complete with chilling personal reports…
https://www.openvaers.com
I have been totally against the lockdowns, zero covid, and the jabs, but now I have seen the light. I see this now as a way to getting to a glorious world of Zero Disease.
To start, every one should be injected with a number of intravenous antibiotics. There are all those nasty germs out there just waiting to pounce. They are incuabted in the unclean unjabbed. The only way out of this is full jabs of all antibiotices for everyone. Soon, we will have a glorius Zero Disease world.
What about the hazards of indiscriminate use of antibiotics, you say? Pfft, that is a minor issue if it saves one granny. I challenge you to look in the eyes of a terrified granny and tell her she can’t be loaded up with antibiotics.
Oh, yes I do hold shares in Big Pharma. Thank you for asking. But I am totally ethical and able to put aside an unintentional pecunary benefit I may possibly get from this scheme for the greater good.
#TotalAntibioticsFor EveryoneAllTheTime.
Lol. We definitely need to be able to laugh about this.
I’m just going to hook myself up to an intravenous drip of antibiotics. Forever.
Such a pity that antibiotics don’t work against viruses.
Order your zillion muzzles now. A fresh one every twenty minutes, for the rest of your life.That’s the way to be saaaaaaaafe.
Oh, I’m going to get a daily vax against the virus, Annie, to which I will add a double muzzle for extra safety. The drip is to guard against any other pesky germs which may be lurking.
visor and purple plastic gloves as well, I hope?
Why not, can’t be too safe!
Only twenty minutes? Bit risky What?
Alcohol makes a better IV drip. Has a l0vely side effect as well. Wink, wink
The disease is spreading and I’m not referring to a virus, coming to a place near you!
Yup. At this point it would be hard to bet against it happening here.
Vaccinated 27x More Likely To Be Symptomatically Infected Than Unvaccinated Who’ve Had COVID (notrickszone.com)
“A shocking new study from Israel compares the protection offered by vaccine-induced immunity versus natural immunity from a previous COVID-19 infection“
Some great reading on that link. Thank you
As the resistance grows, it’s tough to judge the new normals as either threats or victims. I think no matter how heated it gets, we must keep our composure & not be baited. Express our belief but target emotional human side of the witch hunters. They are in a perpetual state of heightened fear & therefore cannot think rationally. We must understand the psychology behind how this happened rather than play into the us vs them game, that’s what the puppet masters want. To divide, polarise, pit us against each other.
The emotions of the new normals are manipulated with the case by case sad stories so much so that it overrides facts on data, on overall mortality etc. The one thing they can agree on is the tyranny, even if they think some of it is justified, they are less free than they were 18 months ago.
I highly recommend academy of ideas channel, deep dives into the psychological mechanisms behind a mass delusional psychosis. Understanding ‘menticide’ and how dangerous that becomes once the afflicted belief their values have ‘purpose’ and they act on that.
The information war can only be won via one to one in person… Read more »
They might even be dead in 3-5 years…. How do we deal with that fury when that dawns on them all.
The professor of psychology from University of Ghent, in his interview with Reiner F., presented much the same analysis. Really worthwhile.
It’s a great channel isn’t it? I have been watching it on/off for years now. Plato, Nietzsche, Dostoevsky…some of the worlds greatest thinkers. And he packages his content well.
I have also taken great notice of the content he has been creating as of late. Psychology of conformity, mass psychosis etc. You know exactly what he is driving at when making this content.
Though with a heavy heart, I have to disagree with your point on all being lost or not. Totalitarianism is always accompanied with an ‘othering’. And that is exactly what is being set-up here. I don’t know how risky the vaccines are long term. Clearly there are short term risks, even if they are low. However, I honestly believe the vaccines are not about anything physically nefarious. Mentally though…. there is a scapegoat for all of societies ills. The unwashed, unclean, unhealthy, ‘other’. That’s us. It will unify the conforming majority, and will allow them to see us collectively as a little less than human…on a society level.
It’s as clever as it is evil. We are going to be ostracised from public life, and they are banking on us standing our ground and… Read more »
Very good- thanks for the link. I love any rational debate that provokes thinking.
Yes, a typically German solution to avoiding political responsibility – shift all blame onto business owners / other people by putting a financial gun to their head and make them discriminate while claiming there is no discrimination. All totally ethical, as approved by the “ethics commission”.
Currently Germany has a problem though because the same method cannot be applied on the employer/employee level (asking for medical details such as vaccination status is prohibited under current law). But have no fear, with our great Bundestag these hurdles on the way to authoritarianism will in all likelihood be undone with applause from majority. Germans are cowardly by nature, revel in envy, and love to inflict pain on their compatriots – if doing so allows themselves to appear as moral apostles.
This attitude of fear and deference to authority is very easy to sell to the aging German population who most of all wish for peace, order and “no harm” being done (in the “show me on public TV that everything is all right” sense).
My son has been to Germany many times for work and he says much the same. He says they’re all very polite, but do not like any type of individuality or questioning of authority, rules, etc.
The German word used for that is Gutmensch (“good-man”). I suppose fitting translation would be “holier than thou”. Virtue signaling and guilt tripping is practically ingrained in Germans since WW2. That’s why it is so easy to fool them into all sorts of dangerous subservient behavior if it is only “for a good cause”. Ironically, the same attitude contributed to Germans starting WW2 in the first place.
Greetings from Hamburg! It was quite a shock when our Mayor, Peter Tschentscher, announced the 2g rule; which is genuine medical apartheid. Yesterday I went to the doctor trying to get an exemption, absolutely no luck there. Last night I was in a restaurant when an elderly lady came in asking if they would be applying the 2g rule. The answer was “yes”, which seemed to make the lady very happy.
No necessity for historical comparisons, we now have our own route to hell.
My position, as a vaccinated person, is to boycott any establishment which attempts to check my vaccination status. This is the only morally coherent position – as much as it sucks for the blackmailed owners of the establishments in case more people adopt it. I will be putting, just in case, such clauses in future contracts with my clients (e.g. on site meetings only possible if no surveillance is performed).
Good to hear it. We need the vaxxed to stand with us.
I’m somewhat puzzled by your confidence that the vaccines are worthwhile for anyone, given the corrupted or vague nature of the data I’ve seen used to determine this. Leaving this aside, mass vaccination of the whole population including groups whose risk from covid is vanishingly small, seems reckless.
I think your theory that vaxx passports are really to protect the unvaxxed but TPTB don’t want to tell us that is implausible nonsense.
It’s a choice between getting your initial exposure to the harmful virus protein through the injection or through the virus.
The difference is that the virus reproduces, so you get dosed a hell a lot more, and that dose is uncontrollable.
That is why I’m convinced the vaccine is a lesser evil – to deal with the “novelty” factor of the virus. It’s getting your immune system a little shock rather than (potentially) a huge shock, for a similar effect.
Data concerning the reduction in risk of severe disease in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated has been pretty consistent, and in favor of vaccine so far (except perhaps for kids, and young adults). Any claims otherwise are based on bad interpretation of the data.
The problem with statistical low risk is that you cannot predict which indviduals will be affected. When dealing with disasters, it does not matter that the risk was low if you happen to be the unlucky one; that’s why people value insurance.
Of course, the same reasoning also applies to side effects of the vaccine. However, one might chance a guess that if someone has a huge adverse reaction to a low-dose of the virus protein from… Read more »
“The difference is that the virus reproduces”
the ‘difference’ ?????
Yes, unlike the virus the mRNA vaccine does not reproduce in your body, it delivers a limited dose of the spike protein by hijacking a limited number of your body’s cells, which are then killed off. There is no feedback loop/self-reinforcement in this process because the cells do not make new mRNA to infect other cells.
OK lets see your source(s)? And a big danger is if the mRNA gets directly into your blood. Can happen due to a botched injection hitting a vein. There’s a recent paper on this but I leave it up to you to find it.
“It’s getting your immune system a little shock rather than (potentially) a huge shock, for a similar effect.” This, of course, describes traditional vaccines (and is why there are actually very few ‘anti-vaxxers’ among those resistant to these gene therapies.)
But this is also a staggeringly ignorant summation of this situation (which is typical among those who are condescendingly ignorant and dismissive of counter-opinions.
It has been clearly shown that the mRNA shots create spike protein throughout the body in places where a traditional vaccine would not. That action has huge implications for damage some of which (short term damage) has already shown up – see VAERS/Yellow card etc.
To convince anyone that has done the research, you will need to address the arguments made by leading virologists/epidemialogists/clinicians like McCullough, Yeadon, Montaignier, etc, not simply state something as juvenile as that “vaccines give your immune system a little shock rather than a huge shock.’
Unfortunately, the virus also “creates spike protein throughout the body in unintended places” – just millions of times more of it than the vaccine. This is not a light argument, I would like your “assorted anti-vaxx experts” to address it. So far, a deafening silence in that regard.
Hahahaha; “is that someone waving or drowning”. From what I have read, these nasty evil experts ( who you libel as “anti-vaxx” with no cited proof ) have done that many many times. Did you know that transferring your assets after you make defamatory remarks like that are not effective ( bit like the jabs ). Or is antibody suppression something else you don’t “agree” with?
Well, if they’ve done it so many times, care to provide a SINGLE reference for uneducated myself? Or do you think claiming it has been addressed is just enough to rest your case?
The Novell Bio Weapon argument again? How has life managed to evolve for so long on this planet?? Or did Darwin get it wrong and it by the Grace of God? who’s now got pissed off with us?
YES, YES, YES
This makes no sense. First, the story about the harmful protein is most likely fiction: Everything I read about that so far boiled down to immune response kills infected cells. This causes side effects but that’s exactly what’s supposed to happen.
Second, the harm the virus does to the body doesn’t come from any harmful protein but – similar to vaccination – from the fact that it (like all viruses) hijacks the celluar reproduction mechanism of cells it infects. Instead of building something useful, the cell will then construct new viruses which will ultimatively cause the cell to die, either while releasing newly constructed viruses or because the immune system kills it to prevent that. The only difference between virus and vaccine in this respect is that the vaccine is restricted to single-generation reproduction: The products created by cells infected by it won’t be able to reproduce on their own.
Lastly, the statistical risk doesn’t apply. I’ve survived numerous bad bouts of flu, each due to an infection with a virus unfamiliar to my immune system (the absolutely worst so far in November 2019) with possibly lethal consequences. Hence, I think that I will surive (or rather, have survived) an… Read more »
Call it what you want, the core argument that you are getting a much lower training dose with the vaccine than with the uncontrollably reproducing virus stands.
And as for your flu, it is unlikely to have been really “novel” – various flu strains circulate in the population, so it would have been a miracle if you had no childhood exposure whatsoever to flu.
Of course, risk is an unavoidable part of life, but if so, why would you be concerned about the (orders of magnitude) smaller risk of vaccination rather than the larger risk of infection? Do you get your kicks out of taking such larger risks?
I think this is an interesting and logical argument, one that I considered some months ago. The obvious next question to double check this reasoning is “how do the doses compare” and unfortunately there I drew a blank. If you have some clear trustworthy evidence then it’d be good to see that. The problems were:
Different vaccines from different manufacturers have very different dosages. IIRC one had a dose 3x higher than another. No public information is available on why this is or how doses were selected. As far as I can tell, dosages may have been calculated by simply starting low and then increasing it until the side effects became too large / the resulting antibody titers were high enough. “Viral load” isn’t measured in ways that are comparable to vaccine dosages. People frequently report side effects comparable to actually having COVID, e.g. feeling so sick they have to stay in bed for a day or two. This suggests the immune response must be at least of a comparable level, which in turn implies the vaccine may not actually be a dramatically smaller dose than an actual viral infection. It’s not just about how many cells are destroyed but… Read more »
Unfortunately, I do not have hard data on spike protein dosage of vaccine versus infection (I suspect it would vary wildly especially on the infection side).
Regarding the spike protein’s danger (or lack thereof) to cardiovascular system, I refer you this:
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/07/scicheck-covid-19-vaccine-generated-spike-protein-is-safe-contrary-to-viral-claims/
The reason for COVID-19’s severity and killing potential is that gas exchange in lungs stops working. Not because of pneumonia, as was initially suspected, but because of some deeper disruption at a cellular level (on the oxygen receiving side, so to say). That’s why COVID-19 is considered to be a systemic/cardiovascular disease nowadays, rather than just respiratory.
I am not aware of any single case where this lung blockage has happened as a result of vaccine administration. Together with the undeniable fact that mRNA or the resulting proteins unlike the virus do not self-replicate, and that the spike proteins (which I speculatively consider as the [indirect] agent that is also causing the lung failure – what else?) from vaccine are quickly cleared from bloodstream (few days), it appears reasonable that having vaccine means less exposure than having the virus. One counterargument might be that not all infections cause the virus to enter the bloodstream or internal organs, it… Read more »
The mRNA technology is not comparable to a true vaccine. It produces a protein not a Virus so how can you talk about Viral load. The dose will be indeterminate and only estimated on the original trial data from the cross section of average healthy volunteers. For ethical reasons compromised individuals would not have been selected as a part of these trials. The actual dose of Protein produced will depend on the individual recipient and the CORRECT (intendant) distribution of the mRNA injection.
You really want to get sick at least once in your life before you try to tell people who have been that this is nothing compared to what you imagine.
…and exactly what is the “novel” aspect of SARS COV 2? Enlighten us all please.
I already had covid and survived. Over 99% of people do, you know. Nice to hear I am a retard. Presumably so are all the rest of them.
Please, please explain why you consider the SARS Cov-2 virus as completely novel?
Again: Please, please explain why you consider the SARS Cov-2 virus as completely novel?
AND Re training:- the mRNA protein system only trains / updates the immune system to the errr Spike. Real virus trains the immune system to the “The Full Monty”, thus giving a wide spectrum future protection.
From your comments I assume that you understand the the concerns of Vaccine Adverse Reactions, and consider them totally acceptable. Sadly many people are now of this opinion, possibly forgetting previous tragic outcomes such as Thalidomide and the Swine Flu vax. From the cursed Wiki:-
Experts estimate that thalidomide led to the death of approximately 2,000 children and serious birth defects in more than 10,000 children,
I suppose thats far in excess of the present VAERS & Yellow Card reports considering Thalidomide was only intended as a help during Pregnancy. Even so the mRNA data seems a tad on the high side to me.
I concur: I have had perhaps 3 influenza episodes, all three leading to bronchitic type symptoms ( as diagnosed by medics ) but by far the worst was an “Asian ‘flu” episode a few years ago, again diagnosed as such with blood tests after initial onset of symptoms – very serious – all of which I survived self evidently as I am not an avatar. Survival was due to a combination of luck, early intervention of treatment, anti inflammatory drugs, bed rest and sleep and consistent intake of fluids to “flush” my body.. Never had a flu vaccine up top that point..
Just a wild thought, maybe if you have had a flu vaccine, you would not have become sick with the “Asian flu”?
OK, so lets fake it point by point ——-
It’s a choice between getting your initial exposure to the harmful virus protein through the injection or through the virus.
Obviously.
The difference is that the virus reproduces, so you get dosed a hell a lot more, and that dose is uncontrollable.
Wrong. A problem with the mRNA approach is that the amount of required “Spike” protein produced by the targeted cells is undetermined. Also its now known that the “Spike” is toxic on its own accord, so you don’t want an overdose of it.
That is why I’m convinced the vaccine is a lesser evil – to deal with the “novelty” factor of the virus. It’s getting your immune system a little shock rather than (potentially) a huge shock, for a similar effect.
What “Novelty”? Perhaps you consider SARS Cov-2 was developed as a Bio Weapon? Yes then possibly “Novell”, but with hindsight not a very good one – want a refund!
Data concerning the reduction in risk of severe disease in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated has been pretty consistent, and in favor of vaccine so far (except perhaps for kids, and young adults). Any claims otherwise are based on bad… Read more »
The very point is that today we do not “have to rely on our immune response” any more than we “have to rely on our immune response” when a rabid dog bites us.
But, of course, as stated many times in my other comments, you are completely welcome to rely on the less reliable way of preventing disease, ignoring facts and substituting them by your own magical fantasy. Believe me, if it was up to me, I would have lifted all the restrictions in summer 2020, long before the vaccine has become available. Individual responsibility and freedom will always trump forced safety (and yes, I think it applies just as well to other “controversial” issues such as seat belts, helmets and other such).
And yes, I am “hoping that vaccine escape or ADE” doesn’t kick in (the likelihood of ADE is minimal, as this very issue has been known AND sorted out very early during the vaccines’ development). And not just hoping, also not trusting the vaccine to give me a 100% protection, which means not mingling with crowds (vaccinated or not) at height of the next transmission wave. Pretty much like I would not be going to a wild… Read more »
What does it feel like to be a unique specimen? Because you are the only person in the rest of the world to have been vaccinated, outside of any Sinovac or similar drug. Bet you are great at keeping the oceans at bay too.
Paved with ill intentions.
It may not be universal, but Germans of my acquaintance have always been massively aware of the Third Reich and its sins – to the point of expressing a historical guilt for something they had no hand in. The over-compensation goes so far as failing to condemn modern Israel’s inhuman excesses. It is absolutely astounding that the government is treading a parallel path.
So here’s my prediction.
1. The unvaccinated create their own establishments for the unvaccinated clients
2. Krystalnacht
Nothing so dramatic, the unvaccinated will just meet and drink privately.
No, we’ll play you at your own game.
Ostracise woke establishments, venues and companies. Eat outdoors in the faces of empty restaurants…. And generally make you look like complete tossers.
I’m sure I’ve seen a video of the French doing exactly just that.
Found it – https://twitter.com/american_ka/status/1430660013882843140?s=20
Yeah, how long are they going to have these picnics? Also in winter? It’s funny to watch, but unless the majority of patrons join in, not effective at all (except for providing new fuel to the government’s propaganda that the dissenters are “crazy asocial individuals”).
I agree with the ostracizing (and will ostracize anyone who checks for vaccination status myself), but sadly because the ostracizers are such a minority, it is not going to have any effect in the grand scheme of things.
You know, I’m actually really hoping for this. In London, pubs and restaurants are always too packed. The big mistake by govt is handing over the responsibility of mandating such nonsense to private businesses. The vaccinated will end up in their masses in big, corporate owned, cr@p places whilst the unvaccinated will end up in the independant and cool places. I was just in a lovely part of North Essex yesterday and visited a pub where no..body..gave.. a…sht. :P. The experiment is also taking place in NY. Watch business owners reject that responsibility.