British Public Vastly Overestimates Size of Minority Groups

2 min read

According to a new poll by YouGov, the British public think various minority groups make up a far larger percentage of the population that they really do. Is it because minorities are so over-represented in the mainstream media? The Mail on Sunday has more.

When 1,800 people were asked by pollster YouGov how many people were transgender, for instance, they thought it was about 5% of the population.

In reality, between 0.3% and 0.7% identify as a different gender from their biological sex – the gap between the estimate and the reality appearing to show how the transgender rights debate has skewed perceptions.

While most Britons are white and heterosexual, the poll found many believe the U.K. is made up of far more racial, religious and sexual minorities than it actually is. When the survey asked what proportion of adults was white, the median answer was 65% – yet the true figure is 87%.

And while official figures show that black Britons make up about 3% of the population, those questioned estimated the proportion at 20%. Britons believed about 15% of the population is Muslim, against the true figure of about 4%, and they estimated the Jewish community stood at 10% when it is one-twentieth that size.

The public also hugely overestimates the number of vegans and vegetarians – suggesting about 20% refuse to eat animal products, when it is just 4%. Results of the survey, commissioned by the Common Sense Campaign, have been used to gauge the accuracy of minority representation in the media. Those surveyed were asked 16 questions to work out the overall perception of the make-up of the U.K.

Tory MP Sir John Hayes said: “This distorted impression created by much of the broadcast and online media is so out of tune with the facts as to befuddle people about the true character of Britain. There are, of course, all sorts of minority groups that deserve our respect and regard.

“The overwhelming majority of British people are drawn from a small number of groups. Media preoccupations with minorities are skewing the facts”

The poll revealed that the public thinks 10% of people are bisexual and 15% are gay or lesbian. The true figures, official statistics say, are 1.3% and 1.8% respectively.

Worth reading in full.

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169 Comments
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DevonBlueBoy
DevonBlueBoy
4 years ago

A psychology professor told me, many moons ago, that “there is no such thing as reality, all there is is an indivual’s own perception of reality”.
He might have been shortening the quote from a rather more famous individual: the philospher David Hume?

Lockdown Sceptic
Lockdown Sceptic
4 years ago

‘There are union jacks every where it’s like a waking nightmare’ Yassminn Abdel-Magied, a Londoner
Yassmin Abdel-Magied is a thirty year-old woman who was born in Sudan and now lives in London. Three days ago, she tweeted the above statement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfYfX_vKhRg

History Debunked

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huxleypiggles
huxleypiggles
4 years ago

Is there no longer a WhatsApp share button for articles?

J4mes
J4mes
4 years ago

If the participants of the jubilee celebrations in London were supposed to be representative of UK population, we would be an 80% black population. Same goes for product advertising, TV shows and movies.

Only the flotillas on today seem to be a majority white people.

The whole thing has been perverse. Especially the speeches by Charles and William, using the occasion to push Agenda 21-30.

RedhotScot
RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  J4mes

Avoided the whole thing like the plague.

Hugh
Hugh
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Why?

Silke David
Silke David
4 years ago

The YouGov survey would have provided some numbers for the respondent to tick. Most people will go with their intuition and think 5% is a low number. They do not do the maths, that 5% of the population, lets go with 65Mill., over 3Million people. If you are given 100k, 10k, people probably would have answered closer to reality.

Lister of Smeg
Lister of Smeg
4 years ago

No wonder practically every advert on TV at the moment shows either a member of the ethnic minorities or alphabet community as the majority in the UK.

Saying that, the figures quoted here are probably taken (baseline) from the 2011 census plus (under) ‘estimates’ of immigration over the next 10 years. I’d put good money on the ethnic minority (especially Muslim) population being WAY more than 13% (and similarly for the 5% Muslim) in 2021, and that’s from the ‘official’ census figures, not taking into account the several million (Tesco estimated the supermarkets were supplying around 80M people several years ago) illegal immigrants.

Think Harder
Think Harder
4 years ago

I’m sure the BBC said we’re all LGBTQ+GAJHASKA needing surgery, we just haven’t realised.

paul parmenter
paul parmenter
4 years ago

Interesting. Shows just how small a tail has been promoted and encouraged by governments and the media to give the dog a right old wagging, doesn’t it?

CynicalRealist
CynicalRealist
4 years ago

I had to go to Specsavers this morning to get one of my pairs of glasses mended (the Covidian theatre for which it was notable has all gone apart from the staff all wearing face nappies).

While they were mending the glasses I looked at the inane advertising posters on the walls – think there were 11 people pictured, of whom only four were white. The other seven were black (afro-carribean).

Why is it that woke posters like this always show a majority of afro-carribeans? They far more rarely show any other minotiries, despite asians forming a larger percentage of the population than afro-carribeans.

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  CynicalRealist

Projection. The above statistical misconceptions reflect the propaganda. When blacks really are 60% of the population the plebs will have been throughly conditioned.

Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

“When blacks really are 60%”

The explanation of the Fermi Paradox.

JXB
JXB
4 years ago

Reality?

Whilst it is possible to make an objective assessment of race/religion from observation, there can be no objective assessment of sexual orientation, sexual identity, dietary preferences as this relies almost entirely on self-reporting… and people sometimes lie. (Gasp!)

A pity gluten intolerance was not in the survey. Gluten intolerance is a symptom of cœliac disease. Judging by the level of sales of gluten-free foods in the UK about 10% of the population must have cœliac disease, whereas on average no more than 1% would be expected to be sufferers.

I notice too on ads for cosmetics some are suitable for vegans – that must be a strange diet.

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago

Part of this can be explained by the fact people aren’t very good at judging scale when percentages are fairly low.

However I think it’s also partly because inner city populations get more media representation and they have a greater proportion of “minority groups”, so people’s perceptions naturally reflect this.

EppingBlogger
EppingBlogger
4 years ago

Maybe the population shiould have been asjked to estimate the proportion of middle class married men who have never been charged with a criminal offence and pay their taxes. I am sure the public would seriously OVER estimate!

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  EppingBlogger

Know the danger signs 🙂

1644152406584-768x1120.png
MikeHaseler
MikeHaseler
4 years ago

Summing them over 100% of the population are supposedly in a small minority.

Catee
Catee
4 years ago

“There are, of course, all sorts of minority groups that deserve our respect and regard.”

Absolutely, what they don’t deserve is our changing our history, language, culture, education or laws to pander to them. Live and let live.

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  Catee

They can’t. That is our history not theirs. A distinct portion of our history is conquering them. As they grow in political power the reminders, like the statues and war memorials, are visible symbols of their conquest.

Multicultural societies don’t survive. At best you can balkanize to survive.

Why bother? This is our homeland not theirs. Resentment means live and let live becomes impossible.

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

It’s not yours.

Clearly it’s not, because if it was, you would’ve stopped “them” coming in. But you didn’t, because you have no power, because it’s not yours.

It’s like you’re lamenting a loss of power and control that you’ve never actually had.

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

I am indigenous British. A white northern European. The history mentioned above is the history of my people.

What don’t you understand?

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

The history mentioned above is the history of my people too. In future, there will be more history, and that history will include today… and it’ll be the homeland of white northern Europeans and a whole bunch of other people too.

Change can be scary but it’ll be fine don’t worry 😉

Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

Exactly when is mass Third World immigration going to start producing benefits for the indigenous population?

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

I guess I’d call them the “current population”, rather than the “indigenous population”, because the impacts of further migration are felt by existing migrants too.

It already produces benefits for the rich (cheaper labour, increased capacity), and to some extent the old (helps pay for pensions). For younger poorer people, in the immediate, it doesn’t. It just creates more competition.

However over the longer term in might help support national prosperity i.e. by not having a population that is skewed too old (and suffering in terms of relative productivity because of it).

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

I agree with some of these points. A youthful population helps. Asians consistently marry younger etc.

But longterm it is offset by the loss in productivity. Indians are mid-rankers, and blacks are never self sufficient. So it is a short term strategy.

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

I completely disagree with these summaries personally. When you further stratify these stats, you see large differences between e.g. Indian / Bangladeshi, different African countries and Africa vs. West Indian. For some “minority” groups, when you stratify, you see some groups outperform the “indigenous” population, while some underperform.

“employees of Chinese, Indian and Mixed or Multiple ethnicity all had higher median hourly pay than White British employees in 2018; while employees in the Pakistani and Bangladeshi ethnic groups had lowest median hourly pay.”

These differences tell me it’s far more to do with circumstance (wealth, history, culture, community) than genetics. I don’t believe you can say “Indians will always be mid-rankers and blacks will never be self-sufficient”. I believe if you put a bunch of people with different genetics in the same surroundings for a few generations and tracked outcomes, they’d end up more similar than different.

Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

Why do you type “indigenous” rather than indigenous?

Is it because you don’t believe there is such a thing as an indigenous population, that you believe they exist but this archipelago doesn’t have any, or for some other reason?

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

I believe if you put a bunch of people with different genetics in the same surroundings for a few generations and tracked outcomes, they’d end up more similar than different.

I’m sure you do believe it but the anthropologists have repeatedly demonstrated this is not the case. Group differences in IQ determine the hierarchy. The spectacular example being African Americans. After 60+ years of special help they are not producing scientists, doctors, engineers, CEOs etc. It doesn’t matter what they do, the blacks end up at the bottom. Their behavioural traits, in particular poor impulse control, damn them every time.

The average IQ in the Indian subcontinent is 80-85. Once again, anthropologists remind us 90-95 as a group average is needed to build and maintain a modern civilisation. Put a large group of them together and you create Calcutta not London or Tokyo.

And on and on it goes. Real life asserts itself every time.

Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

“(helps pay for pensions)”

Nope: Third World immigrants aren’t net contributors to the public finances

And cheap labour reduces the need for employers to innovate to increase productivity.

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

What figures are you basing this on e.g. does this include the impact of any children of those third world immigrants?

And cheap labour reduces the need for employers to innovate to increase productivity.

This is a potential counter effect yes, but all else equal, if one business owner has access to cheaper labour than another, then they’ll make more profit and have more money to invest in innovation. So I’d have to see evidence the effect you suggested somehow counterbalances this, because my intuition is that it wouldn’t.

Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

“does this include the impact of any children of those third world immigrants?2

Obviously: those children wouldn’t be here and requiring expenditure on health, education and benefits if their parents hadn’t moved here.

And we’ve had 25 years of by far the highest immigration in our historyand productivity growth over that period has been dismal.

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

The history mentioned above is the history of my people too.

What people would that be, Tee? I am curious as to your origins if you are comfortable revealing them.

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

Not 100% sure of ratios but I believe they would be – in this order – English, Indian, Portuguese, Irish.

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

That’s quite a mix ☺️

You’d make a good pirate methinks 🦜

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

Ha… I like rum but I think that’s about as far as I’d get.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  Catee

We are not ‘changing our culture ‘- our own Globalist Ruling Elite tare trying to reshape, deform and obliterate it altogether to rewrite it in a new distorted shape that never existed.

For Wokist Feminist “Academics” (sic) Shakespeare is a “dead white man” – a phrase both racist and implicitly threatening ( male whites = dead = don’t count regardless of contribution )

Roger Scruton’s “Culture Counts” should be required reading for anyone trying to understand what massive harm is being done to us and our heritage by our own now entirely “Globalist” dominated ruling class.

huxleypiggles
huxleypiggles
4 years ago

There are two immediate problems with this poll:

YouGov

Zahawi

That’s it.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  huxleypiggles

Yes… and Zahawi’s real agenda of course.

When asked about the chief characteristic of the Johnson Administration what can one say?

Just leave it to Fleetwood Mac:

“Tell me, tell me, tell me lies
Tell me lies
Tell me sweet little lies

Oh, no, no you can’t disguise

Tell me lies
Tell me sweet little lies”

( Fleetwood Mac)

Bobby Lobster
Bobby Lobster
4 years ago

Also, some people thought10% of the population died of the “flu”.

Ember von Drake-Dale 22
Ember von Drake-Dale 22
4 years ago

If you were to watch the TV commercials you would think that it was the white population who were the minority group and that every family in Britain was mixed race with a gay or transgender uncle or auntie etc. I stopped watching the box about fifteen years ago because it completely lacked any kind of resemblance to the life I lead and those of many others who experience life in Britain on a daily basis. If minority groups are much smaller than the public think they are then why are they so vastly over-represented not only on our airwaves but in the press, in advertising, on the boards of our institutions etc? You read it everywhere don’t you – for example : ‘we must have greater diversity in our education institution’ – etc. But if minority groups represent such a small part of this country then why should they have such a big say in how we lead and run our lives? But its not the minority groups who I blame for this rather warped view of British life that is forced down our throats every day but instead its those who run our national broadcasters, our institutions etc… Read more »

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago

Do you live in a city, or more suburban / countryside?

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago

What a timely set of statistics!

What these figure represent is the success of the manic brainwashing campaign by advertisers, Tech industries like Facebook, Google, Twitter,You Tube, Amazon and the whole of luvvy, celebrity, Millionaire Cultural Marxist Hollywood elite – plus our Corporate Globalist owned Mass Media, to deliberately over-represent minority groups and put down the indigenous mainstream population.

The Wokist elites and their Corporate ‘partners’ are waging a full-on ‘culture war’ against the majority population and it is time the majority population fought back. Targeting sexuality and the family to create psychological ” chaos”is just their latest ‘take down’ of our culture and society. as is the deliberate policy of sowing cultural division through bogus “diversity” policies

Simple defensive actions can involve: muting all TV advertising or changing channel for the duration of the propaganda ( young minorities dancing around in their shiny new houses ordering all their ‘wants'( not needs) from Amazon while ‘decrepit old white people’ plan their funerals!), nor engaging with any biased, mainstream news sources, pumping out more crude propaganda; simply assuming that all our Wokist politicians are lying all the time and seeking out ‘alternative’ media which represent the ‘Real World ” we actually… Read more »

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

It is projection. Schemers often project their plans, unwittingly or otherwise.

The future they imagine is rainbow unicorn clap happy nonsense. We will all get along, despite the very obvious lessons from history that tell us otherwise.

I recently watched a march through Glasgow for refugees, which included a group of overweight lesbians with blue hair holding a sign saying “The LGBQTXYZ+ community welcomes refugees”.

Absolutely lost on the assorted gays and lesbians that the people they are championing view them as mentally ill sexual deviants who should be killed.

What a time to be alive 🤠🏳️‍🌈

huxleypiggles
huxleypiggles
4 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

Excellent David.

loopDloop
loopDloop
4 years ago

Completely off-topic, did you notice how Jason Donovan’s Joseph’s coat of many colours, which comes of course from the book of Genesis via Andrew Lloyd Webber, was transformed into the LGBTQ+ flag in the finale of the Platinum Jubilee Concert?

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

Who cares?

loopDloop
loopDloop
4 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

So sorry to bore you. I’ll try to be more relevant in future.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

That’s the spirit!

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

Only women and gays watch musicals 🏳️‍🌈

paul parmenter
paul parmenter
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

How is it off-topic? It’s very central to how public perceptions are manipulated to produce the results of the YouGov poll.

loopDloop
loopDloop
4 years ago

If you add up the perception column, its 112%. Basically, that says that the perception is that everybody is in at least one of those categories, with more than 10% at least in two. Just to underline it, the perception revealed by this survey is that everybody is a transgender/bisexual/gay black/asian muslim/jewish vegan.

Now over in the reality column, the total adds up to basically 22%. So, in reality, more than three quarters of the population is at least not one of the categories. So straight white meat-eaters basically.

Seems about right to me.

Martin Frost
Martin Frost
4 years ago

…however this is nothing compared to the public’s perception of the Covid threat. If it were not for a relentless media misinformation campaign, we might have got a more accurate impression of the true level of risk to the population ie very low.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  Martin Frost

The MS Media are now the enemies of truth.

Virefirer
Virefirer
4 years ago

Never let facts get in the way of narrative, eh?.

Dodgy Geezer
Dodgy Geezer
4 years ago

There are, of course, all sorts of minority groups that deserve our respect and regard.

Why?

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer

That line betrays the real problem.

It takes a basic moral position we agree with – do not abuse a small minority just because they are outnumbered – and elevates it to an improper moral imperative.

We avoid abusing minorities so we do not abuse our own strengths, not because they are something special.

You do get fed up with this kind of boilerplate nonsense. They did the same with the vaxxes. They’d publish some damning report about side effects but still felt compelled to say you should get your vax.

What this tells us is these people are not going to guide us to a better future. It is blunt reality people need. We don’t need any third world immigrants because they are low IQ peasants who cannot build or maintain a civilization. They and their children will be a burden and we have our own people to look after.

Anyone who says that will get my vote.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer

Yes – so where is the “respect and regard” for us then?

I see none whatever – latest being the Yorkshire Village targeted without any consultation with illegal, male immigrants in greater numbers than the village population by the London, Deep State. Civil Service..

Remember a Blair adviser said in around 2005 that the countryside was “Too White”!

“Respect and regard” ? From these politicians and their lackeys…?

Moderate Radical
Moderate Radical
4 years ago

Aside from the skewed media portrayal of ‘diverse Britain,’ another factor has to be the fact that, for example, Asians and Muslims are vastly overrepresented in inner-city and other areas. This also plays into the problem of integration. If Asians represent 7% of the country, why are certain areas of the country (e.g. Southall) around 80-90% Asian? If the Muslim population is 4% then why are certain areas of the country (e.g. Bradford) around 40-50% Muslim*?

There is clearly very little to no attempt by the authorities to encourage and promote integration, nor is there evidence of such an attempt by the migrants themselves in these heavily overrepresented areas.

I have long said that if the Asian population as a whole stands at 7%, then no single area should have an Asian population that exceeds that 7%, and so on and so forth. If you truly want integration, and you truly respect the rights of an indigenous people/culture to be preserved (as you claim you do for indigenous cultures everywhere else outside of a Western context), then show me the flaw in my reasoning.

*while I can be confident of the Southall figure of 80-90%, having come from… Read more »

Marcus Aurelius knew
Marcus Aurelius knew
4 years ago

I live between Leeds and Bradford. Off the top of my head I’d say about one quarter of Bradford is Muslim, most of those Pakistani (or Pakistani heritage).

The main drag into Bradford from Leeds (Leeds Road) is always alive with many ice cream parlours, restaurants, chicken and burger joints, etc. At no point in the last two years did it stop. Even seemed to get more busy. Great!

Loads of masks were on display, but over the last couple of decades that community has wised up a lot regarding how to play the authorities at their own game.

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago

Wait until they push for the call to prayer. That’s when it’ll kick off.

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago

I also live in Leeds, but grew up in London. My perception of integration was completely different in London – where I grew up it was good, whereas Bradford feels very segregated.

So it can work fine or it can go a bit wrong.

I think what Vaxtastic is arguing is incorrect. I know of plenty of British born Asians who see themselves as British and not economic migrants.

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago

When you get to know British born Asians one of the most striking things is they view themselves as economic migrants. Not British.

That is worth considering. They feel out of place here. They have absolutely no intention of integrating. If you get to know them really well they will often admit they are astonished at our gullibility. They know it won’t end well.

Cultures don’t mix. Historically aware Asians understand northern Indians, who are now spintered into Indians, Pakistanis etc, could not live together in their own homeland. The idea they can settle peacefully here is viewed by THEM as fantasy.

What a situation to be in.

MTF
MTF
4 years ago

Are you proposing forced migration within the UK based on ethnic background?

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  MTF

Deport them all. They don’t belong here.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

Who does now?

Moderate Radical
Moderate Radical
4 years ago
Reply to  MTF

No. I’d propose forced repatriation. If a sensible conservative government wishes to start again in a more sensible manner then we as a people can talk about that, but the damage has been done, and we have the horrendous problem of migrants/economic migrants who have no interest in integrating and are often outright hostile to this nation and its people, culture and values.

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago

Absolutely spot on.

The Indian groups could not get along in Northern India when we pulled out. They will not integrate here.

What is never discussed is how little they contribute. We are not shipping in rocket scientists. They are third world peasants we conquered and are useful to those who hate us because of their natural resentment.

I too want total repatriation. If we must have immigration we do what Estonia does and have a constitution based on ethnocentrism. Only immigrants from comparable cultures, Germans, Dutch, Scandinavians etc.

MTF
MTF
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

I too want total repatriation.

Don’t underestimate the integration that has already taken place and the roots that have been put down (a different thing). This is a pretty vicious thing you are suggesting. For example, my personal experience.:

My son is married to a girl from Rajasthan. She went to school here and then to Oxford and is now a barrister.. Her parents are NHS consultants in the North of England – they have lived and worked here for many decades and, of course, have saved many lives of all backgrounds. So what is our policy with respect to them?

  • Repatriate just her parents and deprive the NHS of two consultants?
  • Repatriate my son’s wife as well?

One of his cousins is married to a girl of Punjabi roots (my mother has six grandchildren in the UK, two married into Indian families) although she and her parents were born in Birmingham? What happens to them?

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  MTF

It is not vicious. What an absurd statement. This is Britain, not India.

I’d be prepared to give a free pass to Asians married to whites. They are a rarity, which is the point. After 70 years virtually none are mixing. Those that have done so, fine. Including their parents if you like.

What I don’t want is parallel societies. Post-British India showed us our future. A fractured society, which is avoidable.

The level of integration we see with Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs is minimal. Many still go back to the old country to get brides, especially the Pakistanis. They are very clearly not becoming British despite your own anecdote.

This is our homeland, the only one we possess. It is a fraction the size of the Indian subcontinent.

Repatriation and related phenomenon will be forced on us by demographic change anyway. My suggestion is a measured sensible discussion now while that is viable. Shying away from the subject gets us nowhere.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

Too late. It is all over – Johnson will see to that!

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

Nice that you’d be willing to give me a free pass, but be careful what you start. This is my homeland now and I’ll fight for it too 😉

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

Strange how the British never said that in India but in the end crept away quietly in the night, while the population of ‘Midnight’s Children’ massacred itself on religious grounds ?

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

If I’m understanding correctly I don’t think that’s an apt analogy so I don’t really know how to respond!

Moderate Radical
Moderate Radical
4 years ago
Reply to  MTF

Don’t underestimate the integration that has already taken place and the roots that have been put down…

[…]

My son is married to a girl from Rajasthan. She went to school here and then to Oxford and is now a barrister.. Her parents are NHS consultants in the North of England – they have lived and worked here for many decades and, of course, have saved many lives of all backgrounds. So what is our policy with respect to them?

Repatriate just her parents and deprive the NHS of two consultants?Repatriate my son’s wife as well?

One of his cousins is married to a girl of Punjabi roots (my mother has six grandchildren in the UK, two married into Indian families) although she and her parents were born in Birmingham? What happens to them?

This is the standard argument intended to trigger emotions. Okay, let’s grant that all those who are fully integrated are not subject to repatriation. We have a rigorous, no-nonsense process with definitions of ‘integrated’ based largely on the above. Let’s be liberal and say this amounts to 15-20% of migrants and children of migrants. Do you agree with the other 85-90% being repatriated? If not, why bring up the 15-20%?

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago

How integrated are you?

Moderate Radical
Moderate Radical
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

What a dumb question. I’m indigenous British. You wouldn’t ask that question of an African in Africa or an Indian in India, would you?

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago

Yes, I would ask it of you as part a rigorous, no nonsense process led by the government. Just gotta work out where to send you now!

Moderate Radical
Moderate Radical
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

It’s still a dumb question I’m afraid. You’re not very bright are you? Allow me to take you by the hand. I’m indigenous British. There is nothing for me to ‘integrate’ into since I am naturally British. You commit a very basic category error by conflating idigenous and non-indigenous.

Again, you wouldn’t ask that question of of an indigenous African in Africa or an indigenous Indian in India, would you?

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago

Think of it more as a thought experiment. I avoided the word indigenous and asked whether you’re integrated, since you implied you’d like to set a precedent that people should be deported if they’re not “integrated”.

I could argue you’re not integrated enough. You sort of said you don’t really believe you’ll ever get along with ~80% of the migrant population above, so I’m not sure you fit in with our vision of the perfect society.

Moderate Radical
Moderate Radical
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

Are you deliberately being obtuse, or are you genuinely this dim? Your ‘thought experiment’ is incoherent. The very idea of ‘integration’ is predicated on and presupposes the non-indigenous, so you can’t avoid the indigenous-non-indigenous distinction.

You are committing a fundamental category error, and your ‘thought experiment’ is utterly incoherent. It is not the clever ‘gotcha’ you think it is.

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
4 years ago

Depends on your definition of integration. As I imagine you’ll have noticed over the last couple of years, definitions can change. Where would you like to be sent?

Moderate Radical
Moderate Radical
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

You’ve been refuted, troll.

Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
4 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

I think most people would think of integration involving the recently arrived minority changing to fit in with the historic population, not the opposite.

As an example, people from non-queuing cultures learning to queue rather the majority baqrging in.

MTF
MTF
4 years ago

It depends on what you mean by integrated. My son’s parents in law are Hindus, maintain their own culture in their home, and most of their friends are Indian (mostly doctors it appears). On the other hand their children are extremely Westernised and so there are strong links. My son’s wife, although thoroughly Westernised herself with many close Western friends, also has close relationships with friends and relatives living in Southall. There is a web of relationships of varying strength – social and economic – between different ethnic communities and White British . You can’t easily identify the 85-90% who are not integrated. Any attempt to repatriate is bound to cut through important ties and cause great distress both to the ethnic community in question but also many White British who have close links – never mind the effect on health and care services.

Moderate Radical
Moderate Radical
4 years ago
Reply to  MTF

I granted your definition or examples of ‘integration’ above. With that in mind, and dismissing the so-called problem of ‘the effect on health and care services’ (a hackneyed trope which underestimates and insults the indigenous population), with a rigorous process establishing the ‘truly integrated,’ would you agree with the other 80-85% being repatriated? If not, why bring up the 15-20%?

That’s all I’m asking. Grant that the ‘truly integrated’ can be determined.

MTF
MTF
4 years ago

No. Because so many of that 80-85% would in practice have strong links with so many aspects of British life via that web of contacts I described. Also I am against forced deportation of anyone who has not done a criminal act.

Moderate Radical
Moderate Radical
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

I largely agree.

Speaking of Indian groups, I can remember the main two Indian (largely Sikh) firms of West London, the Holy Smoke and the Tooti Nungs, battling each other in Southall and Hounslow, people being carved up in the street and in parks, in the mid-late-80s.

That’s my earliest experience of cultural enrichment.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

It isn’t what they “contribute” that counts, I am sure they are well versed and trained in Benefit culture.

paul parmenter
paul parmenter
4 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

They contribute diversity, which is apparently enormously valuable.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  MTF

Haven’ t we had this for years now?

Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
4 years ago

I like the fact that my village is 98% white and there don’t appear to be any Muslims here.

Vaxtastic
Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

Won’t be for long. Where I live the government jobs all have the following line on the advertisement:

Applications are particularly welcomed from candidates requiring a visa to work in the UK.

You cannot survive that. Whites are ten percent of the world population. India alone has 1.2bn people. Africa a similar number.

Within ten years because of economic problems the middle east will have 220m unemployed people under the age of 30.

If we don’t wake up now we are lost.

caipirinha17
caipirinha17
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

That’s an expensive policy, all paid for by the taxpayer…. Would the public be happy that their hard earned money is being squandered in this way?

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

Do you live in ‘Midsomer’ by any chance?

caipirinha17
caipirinha17
4 years ago

I’m near Leicester, and it’s exactly the same – in the city there are areas largely populated with particular ethnic groups and none of them mix, in fact most of them have a major problem with other ethnic groups so integration is impossible. The range is pretty broad, mostly Asian but significant African and West Indian populations too. Out in the villages where life seems much more pleasant and frankly friendlier, you’ll find mainly white middle class people. I guess with these surveys it depends on who you ask and which newspapers they read…

Smelly Melly
Smelly Melly
4 years ago

Watching TV I’d say that only white women have sex with black men, mixed race kids are in the majority, all positions of rank are held by non whites, all white men are stupid, if there are white couples they are usually homosexual. One thing you never or rarely see is a straight white couple having a normal loving relationship, with normal well adjusted children.

Marcus Aurelius knew
Marcus Aurelius knew
4 years ago
Reply to  Smelly Melly

Normal just isn’t clickworthy.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago

It will soon be extinct !

Is that in fact what the fake/ well funded “Extinction Rebellion” fraud is really designed to achieve?

Jo Starlin
Jo Starlin
4 years ago
Reply to  rockoman

A little surprised at the Italian one.

rockoman
rockoman
4 years ago

There was a poll in the UK sometime in 2021, asking people what proportion of the population they thought had died of covid.

The average answer was 7% – ie about 4.6 million people.

In the US the estimate was 10%

These are the people with whom we live.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  rockoman

These helpless “people” are ‘victims’ – the consequence of outrageous 24/7 Media Propaganda and a military grade Psyop to achieve the greatest brainwashing operational success in the country’s history.

They cannot help themselves . When will Johnson elevate Michie to the Peerage I wonder ?

( While on the ‘Peerage’- for what great service to the country was Johnson’s brother Joe “Elevated” by the way? Doing nothing about Wokism in Higher Education perhaps?)

Jo Starlin
Jo Starlin
4 years ago

Yes and no. Racial minorities are vastly, astoundingly over represented in the media. But the true percentages are far higher than the ludicrously low official figures. As anyone with eyes to see can tell over the last ten years. When the next census is finally published, it will tell a very different story. As for birth rates, well….

Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
4 years ago
Reply to  Jo Starlin

They say they’ll start revealing the results on June 28th.

Jo Starlin
Jo Starlin
4 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

I didn’t fill it in personally. After the last two years I have no intention of cooperating with the state in any way if I can help it.

MikeHaseler
MikeHaseler
4 years ago
Reply to  Jo Starlin

My wife knew I wasn’t going to fill it in .. and didn’t tell me it had come/

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago

Good post Toby.

The gap between reality and perception is extraordinary and has had major political consequences.

It dovetails with a survey just published by Demos which shows that Leave voters are much more inclined than Remain voters to be nostalgic and imagine that ‘things were better’ in the past. They tend to underplay the positives of technological advances and feel a less of loss.

However, the Brexit vote itself seems to have created an exception. 49 per cent of Leave voters, who tended to be more pessimistic on every other question, believed they will benefit from future change, compared to 20 per cent of Remain voters, suggesting that when presented as an unspecified force, ‘change’ has become intrinsically linked in citizens’ minds, for good and for bad, with Brexit.

Shimpling Chadacre
Shimpling Chadacre
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

“The gap between reality and official figures is extraordinary”

FTFY

We’ll see if/when the census figures are ever released.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Assumption: ” the census figures are accurate” .

On what basis in reality?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

On the same basis that you can treat any stat, any fact, about anything.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Exactly – the more ‘official’ they are the more suspect. Surely “Covid” has at least taught us that?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

Total scepticism about everything leaves us unable to form any opinion at all – and also gets to be ridiculous. An official stat might tell us how many post offices there are in the country. Why would I want to argue with it?

The ONS estimate of our population is going to suffer from difficulties in data collection, but it’s unlikely to be miles off target.

Selective scepticism about so called ‘official’ information, while placing enormous faith in ‘unofficial’ sources with uncertain provenance, just doesn’t make sense. If you’re going to take a sceptical approach, it needs to be consistent.

At least I can check provenance with an official source. In many cases I know enough about the source to understand what kind of bias might have come in.

Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

“but it’s unlikely to be miles off target.”

Didn’t there turn out to be nearly twice as many EU citizens in the UK than government estimates when they applied for permanent resident status?

Jo Starlin
Jo Starlin
4 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

Yes, they were about 2.6 million out! Remember when Mandelson and Blair told us EU net migration would be about 13,000 a year?

Julian
Julian
4 years ago

Two main reasons IMO
1) Minority “issues” receive a disproportionate amount of attention from media and politicians
2) They are hugely over represented in advertising and TV/films
All as intended

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

All part of the “Great Take Down”!

caipirinha17
caipirinha17
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Plus, a disproportionate amount of funding from various sources….

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  caipirinha17

“Open Society” …D. Miliband ?

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago

Adverts are there NOT to advertise the product but mind control you bout something else.
Someone should make a film where that was a plot point…

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago

Exactly! Say it again!

MikeHaseler
MikeHaseler
4 years ago

I have stopped watching adverts completely. Every advert break I religiously pause and skip through. And I block adverts on websites. If I do stay with someone who watches adverts I look at them as if it’s a documentary on New Guinea where they stick big sticks through their lips … a totally alien culture.

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