Civil Disobedience Growing Among OAPs
This coming Monday, March 8th, is the first key date in Boris’s roadmap. It is the date schools across England will reopen and university students can return – albeit just those doing practical courses. It is the date when one person can visit someone else in a care home – albeit in PPE and clutching a recent negative test result. It is the date people will be permitted to meet outside in public spaces to socialise and not just to exercise – albeit only in pairs.
Unsurprisingly, however, the already vaccinated are beginning to ignore this glacial, excessively cautious reopening. They are already meeting up with people, even indoors, as Guido notes, commenting on a recent data release from the ONS.
Buried in the latest ONS data dump of Covid research is a remarkable – if logical – statistic. Just 33% of over 80s have not met with anyone indoors since having their jab, with 43% admitting to meeting with people other than their carers or support bubble after receiving the first dose. After two jabs, this explicit rule-breaking rises to 48%. Despite the widespread rule-breaking, hospitalisation and death rates amongst the age group are tumbling…
Cheeky octogenarians are not alone – spritely 72-year-old Lord Sumption yesterday made a splash by telling UnHerd that “sometimes the most public-spirited thing that you can do with despotic laws like these is to ignore them” – even claiming that a quiet campaign of “civil disobedience” has already begun. At least among the elderly, the data does seem to agree with him…
The ONS data release provides further details.
Of over 80s-who had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, a total of 67% reported that they had met somebody they do not live with, indoors, since being vaccinated.
More than a third (37%) had met with a member of their support bubble, indoors, since being vaccinated, and 23% had met with their child or children indoors.
It would appear that their perception of risk has altered fundamentally, as the ONS statistician comments:
The rollout of the COVID-19 vaccination is, no doubt, a huge relief to many people aged over 80, as we can see that almost half of all them, when asked, considered COVID-19 to be a major or significant personal risk before receiving the vaccination – this decreases to just 5% having the same concern after hypothetically receiving both doses of the vaccine.
Boris has appealed for vaccinated octogenarians to abide by the rules, but it appears to have fallen on deaf ears.
More Than Half of Positive Test Results in Schools Likely to be False Positives
Children returning to school on Monday face being subjected to extensive rules and guidance designed to make the school ‘Covid-secure’. This includes frequent and regular testing of all students and staff. One mother, healthcare professional and reader of Lockdown Sceptics wrote in to tell us why her children will not be taking part.
Mass testing using lateral flow tests will be rolled out across all secondary schools across England from Monday March 8th as all pupils are [deep breath] going back to school. A test is required before each child is allowed to return followed by two further tests between three and five days apart in school. So, three tests in the first week. This is then followed by biweekly testing at home from thereon. “Testing remains voluntary but highly advised” (Department of Health, NHS Test and Trace). I have two children who attend a large comprehensive secondary school. There are just under 1,500 students in the school – if each child takes the three tests in the first week that amounts to 4,500 tests (plus the teachers). If my research tells me right there are just under 3.5 million pupils in state funded secondary schools in England so that is 10.5 million swabs in week one alone, plus the teachers (and plus all the other swabs that are being done elsewhere). Each lateral flow test is a single use disposable plastic swab. I am not sure how the swabs are disposed of but I can be certain they are not recycled – I expect they are incinerated as clinical waste.
My husband and I are both ‘front line’ health care professionals and have opted our children out of testing in key worker school and have indeed opted out for the next phase of testing starting next week. Indeed we have also opted ourselves out of testing at work (also not mandatory). This is because we have many concerns about the flaws of mass testing asymptomatic people.
Bear with me here. The lateral flow tests have been reported to have a specificity of 99.6% (Preliminary report from the joint PHE Porton Down and University of Oxford SARS-CoV-2 LFD test development and validation cell, 2020). That is to say that if you use a lateral flow test on 1,000 people *known to definitely not have Covid* then it will test negative in 996 of them. Meanwhile the sensitivity of lateral flow is variable depending on the person administering it, ranging from 76% when trained healthcare staff are the operators but falling to 58% when used by self-trained members of the public. Put another way: if 100 people who are *known to definitely have Covid* are tested with lateral flow, the result will be positive in somewhere between 58 and 76 of them. However this is only half the story when it comes to screening a population that has no symptoms. To understand the value of lateral flow when it’s used in this way, we need to understand the idea of Positive Predictive Value (PPV) and Negative Predictive Value (NPV). These are the values that answer the questions “I’ve tested positive, so what are the chances I actually have Covid?” and “I’ve tested negative, so what are the chances I really don’t have Covid?”. The trouble is that the PPV and NPV vary depending on the prevalence of the condition you’re testing for – if the condition you’re hunting for (in this case Covid) by using a given screening test (in this case lateral flow) is rare, then the PPV of the test will drop while the NPV improves – in other words a positive test is less likely to mean you really do have the disease, while a negative test is more likely to mean you don’t have the disease. Conversely if the condition is common then a positive test is more likely to mean you really do have the disease (i.e., the PPV increases) whilst the NPV drops.
Take my children’s school as an example: approximately 1,450 pupils. Let’s say six of them have Covid (based on the current estimated national average of 1 infection per 230 people – although in fact the estimated prevalence in my local area is even lower). Let’s also say that 66% of those will test positive (as per the stated sensitivity of lateral flow). That’s four positive tests and two negative tests amongst the children with actual Covid. This leaves 1,444 without Covid. 99.6% of them (i.e., 1438 pupils) will correctly test negative, so six will test positive. Therefore there are ten positive tests amongst the whole school, of whom four actually have Covid and six actually don’t. Some rudimentary maths will show that this equates to a PPV of 40%. In other words any pupil receiving a positive test has a less than 50/50 chance of actually having Covid. The reassuring thing is that based on these numbers a negative test is 99.9% likely to mean a child truly doesn’t have Covid, but the price of this ‘reassurance’ is a few unlucky children being removed from school (again) and put through another unpleasant and invasive test, not to mention the possible risk of anxiety, the impact on their family having to isolate whilst the PCR test results are awaited, but also the environmental impact. This is one of my main concerns – the environmental impact of using millions of disposable plastic swabs each week (gov.uk has a daily/weekly count available – at the time of writing there were 4,513,953 tests carried out over the last 7 days. This is a combination of lateral flow and PCR tests). The number of tests is going to rise dramatically over the next week and this is of huge concern to us as a family. I have raised this as a concern in a recent medical webinar. I was not completely alone however I genuinely think not many people have thought about this issue (someone did raise concern related to the types of plastics used in the swabs). This is at complete odds with the environmental campaign against single use plastic and the effects on our planet. Even more ironically children are taught extensively at school about protection of the planet and individual responsibility. What are we teaching them now?… I will leave the PPE and wipes and disposable masks and plastic EVERYWHERE for now as I am starting to sweat … and the children want to watch David Attenborough A Life on Our Planet…
Stop Press: Covid Testing in school has been recommended by the Government, but is not mandatory, as we have previously reported. Nevertheless, most schools are doing their best to test all their pupils and according to a survey conducted by ITV this is eating up huge amounts of time that will take away from teaching time in many schools. Only 9% of schools have consent for the tests from all parents, and a majority are struggling to get consent from more than half. Perhaps because it would have teachers lives easier, 80% of them believe that testing should have been made compulsory by the Government.
Stop Press 2: The other core component of the guidance is on mask-wearing in the classroom. The Telegraph reports on the UsForThem letter to Gavin Williamson asking him to publish the evidence showing that masks interrupt transmission or abandon the measure. Meanwhile, 32 Tory MPs have demanded that the measure be dropped after Easter.
Stop Press 3: A teacher has written in to describe an unanticipated difficulty with ‘remote learning’.
My head of department went AWOL the other day at one point because she fell victim to a sophisticated online scam while teaching online. The scammers purported to be from her internet service provider fixing an issue with her connection (which they simulated) and sneaked into her phone by the back door, emptying her bank account in the process. Had she not been trying to teach an online lesson at the time it wouldn’t have happened – she of course was desperate to get ‘the problem’ sorted as fast as possible. Luckily she got the money back from the bank but it’s a mark of how vulnerable relying on multiple internet access can be with all the distractions of trying to manage online teaching, to say nothing of the potential for far more sinister hacking impacting on the children involved. For this teacher going back to ‘real’ teaching can’t come soon enough.
Another Foreign Travel Ban
In case anyone is tempted to sneak off for an Easter break to one of the countries that have declared themselves open to vaccinated Brits, the Government has made it illegal to leave the country for non-work reasons from March 8th. In guidance published yesterday, it states:
From March 8th 2021, you must complete this form to declare the reason that you need to travel abroad.
You must complete this form if you are travelling outside the UK from England. Different rules apply for international travel from Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
You don’t need to complete the form for travel within the UK, to Ireland, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man.
You should print a copy of the completed form or save it to a mobile phone or other device.
You may be asked to show this declaration form at the port of departure. You may carry evidence to support your reason for travel.
Entering a port of departure to travel internationally without a completed form is a criminal offence, for which you could be fined.
If you try to travel abroad without a legally permitted reason, you may also be fined for breaching the stay at home requirements
Writing in the Telegraph, Chris Leadbeater is not impressed.
There is a definite element of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory to today’s announcement of a new “Declaration to Travel” – which will come into force on Monday (March 8th).
At first glance, it might seem as innovative and attractive – to that section of the electorate which wants even tougher restrictions, at all costs – as an Everlasting Gobstopper, or a stick of chewing gum which runs through the flavours of a three-course dinner, including the pudding.
But on closer inspection, it is revealed to be as pointless and impractical as, well, a piece of confectionery that turns the consumer into a big blueberry – or a Fizzy Lifting Drink where the imbiber has to burp to stay grounded.
As with much that has come out of Downing Street and the offices of state around it during the pandemic, the Declaration to Travel is fantasy thinking. But not in a good way.
Let us look, first of all, at what it is meant to do. Officially, it is designed to ensure that anyone attempting to leave the UK in the coming weeks has good reason to do so –and can demonstrate as such by typing their details into a three-page document that can be waved at the airport or ferry terminal, at anybody shoving their beak into your business.
But what will it actually achieve? Nothing – beyond scaring any lingering urge to go anywhere out of the citizens of a country who have been locked down, threatened with quarantine, and gaslit with the prospect of fines for all manner of minor offences for the best part of the last year.
Worth reading in full.
An Update From the Lockdown Sceptics Senior Doctor
We have an update today on the latest NHS data from the Senior Doctor who writes regularly for Lockdown Sceptics. Good news, but with a few oddities.
At the risk of testing readers patience for graphics, I’m firstly going to have a look at the regular hospital statistics to assess what has changed in the last couple of weeks and compare the information with where we were last year. Then I will raise a few issues that have been puzzling me for some time – essentially discrepancies between what I hear in the media and what I see in the data. I apologise in advance for having more questions than answers in this update. Much of the data I have looked at this week does not seem to fit together with official pronouncements and I don’t have ready explanations for why that might be.
Here is the chart for COVID-19 inpatients in English Hospitals (Graph 1). Readers will observe that the number of inpatients is now lower than at the beginning of December. In fact, the inpatient numbers are equivalent to where they were in October. Importantly, they continue to fall at an impressive rate – approximately 2,500 – 3,000 per week and the trend shows no sign of slowing down. To put it another way, the numbers of COVID-19 patients in English hospitals has fallen from about 30% of available beds to under 10% in six weeks. I will discuss possible reasons for this reduction later in the piece. Readers will also note that the trend is uniform across all geographic regions, with a slight lag between the curves for London and the South East and the rest of the country. This has been attributed to the transit of the so called ‘Kent variant’ strain. The same trends are seen in ICU numbers, albeit with a lag due to longer lengths of stay.
I find Graph 2 interesting. This is a comparison of the spring 2020 inpatient curve with the recent winter one. Readers should be aware that this chart is derivative. I have taken two time series by identifying the peak dates of COVID-19 inpatients, then worked back and forward for a few weeks either side of the peak to compare the curves. The graph shows that the peak number of COVID-19 inpatients was higher in the winter than the spring, but that the decline from the peak has been more rapid – the grey line is almost at the same level as the blue line on the right-hand side. ‘Day 70’ in the spring series represents May 31st, so in terms of COVID-19 inpatients we are already where we were at the beginning of summer last year. This observation fits with the community testing data which shows a significant reduction in positive cases in recent weeks.
There are several possibilities to explain the observable difference, and they may all be playing a part – one is the vaccination effect. Another is the intensity of testing – we may have been under recording COVID-19 patients in the spring and possibly over recording them in the winter. Advocates of ‘non-pharmaceutical interventions’ will probably attribute the difference to societal lockdown. Adherents to the other side of the argument may claim this is a consequence of ‘herd immunity’. It may even be that the virus recedes in warmer weather. Whatever the reason, the burden of COVID-19 in hospitals is falling faster now than in the spring last year.
Next, I examine admissions to hospital from the community in Graph 3. This looks a bit confusing as all the lines converge on the right-hand side, but it’s an important graphic because the downward trend of falling admissions implies that the number of inpatients is likely to continue to fall in the next few weeks. Simply put, if the number of patients coming into the funnel is lower than the numbers being discharged, then the overall hospital numbers will go down quite quickly. We don’t have access to rolling discharge figures as these are only released on a monthly basis, but I think it’s reasonable to infer that hospital discharges have increased substantially in the last few weeks and lengths of stay have fallen.
For a non-graphical comparison which might be easier to understand, the three-day average admissions in London have dropped from nearly 800 a day in London to about 70 per day now. Across the whole of England, one patient with COVID-19 is admitted from the community every 150 seconds, compared to one every 30 seconds in mid-January. On March 3rd there were 478 COVID-19 patients admitted to English Hospitals – similar levels to the first part of October. I haven’t heard Simon Stevens updating the nation with those particular statistics, but then I don’t watch much TV and he’s a busy person. I also find it strange that my colleagues who were so keen to appear in the media emphasising how awful things were in January have been more reticent in informing the public that matters are now largely under control. Why is that?
I now want to look at some data on deaths, which I find puzzling for a variety of reasons. Graph 4 shows ONS recorded COVID-19 deaths in December and January. I have not included deaths in people under 60 years of age because they are so low as to be statistically irrelevant. Graph 4 is interesting because it clearly shows the age stratification of COVID deaths – the older you are, the more likely you are to die with the virus. This graphic contradicts much of what I have heard in the press about the new variant being more deadly in younger age groups. All the data I have seen from hospital admissions, ICU audits and death figures show that there is no difference in age-related mortality or disease severity between Spring 2020 and this Winter. I don’t understand why this is being reported differently in the media – am I missing something? Do the experts have access to information that I can’t see? If so, I would be grateful if this data could be made available because I find cognitive dissonance uncomfortable.
Graph 4 also shows that COVID-19 deaths peaked at the end of January and are on a clear declining trend. I observed in a previous piece that on January 26th at the Downing Street press conference, Professor Whitty said: “I think we have to be realistic that the rate of mortality, the number of people dying a day, will come down relatively slowly over the next two weeks – and will probably be flat for a while now.” Graph 4 clearly refutes that prediction. In fact, all the predictions around deaths have been wildly inaccurate. PHE predicted a peak of 4,070 COVID-19 deaths per day which would occur at the beginning of December. Imperial College said COVID-19 deaths would peak at 2,170 per day on 30th December. Warwick University were the closest predicting 1,700 deaths per day on 23rd December. The real daily peak of recorded COVID-19 deaths was 1,249 on January 19th.
Chart 1 shows all cause deaths recorded in England and Wales as a Nightingale plot. Readers can clearly see the peak excess deaths in the spring. Note that these figures are all-cause deaths, not just COVID-19 deaths. What puzzles me about this data is the lower number of overall deaths in the recent winter compared to last spring. Graph 5 below shows that the number of COVID-19 recorded deaths is much the same as the spring, so it appears that non COVID-19 deaths are considerably lower than usual. How can that be? Could it be due to the complete absence of influenza deaths this winter? Or did the 2020 epidemic burn through the ‘dry stubble’, killing people that would have died in the first two months of 2021 willy nilly?
In Graph 5 I have plotted weekly deaths recorded by the ONS where ‘COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate’ according to location of death. It suggests that COVID-19 related deaths were similar in number in the Winter compared to the Spring and that most COVID-19 deaths were recorded in hospitals. This observation begs several questions. We know from the hospital admissions data that there were approximately 75% more patients hospitalised with COVID-19 in the Winter compared to the Spring, but there were roughly the same number of deaths. Hence as a percentage, the in-hospital mortality was substantially lower in the Winter than in the Spring. If the new variant really is more deadly, how can this be? It is possible that the hospital admission criteria may have been lower in the winter, so there may have been more patients, but they were less ill (relatively speaking) than in the Spring. Or maybe they really were sicker, but treatment has improved very substantially. The vaccine effect might explain some of the reduced mortality in the last few weeks: SPI-M (one of the Government’s advisory bodies) has recently released data showing that the rate of COVID-19 deaths has fallen faster than its modelling from the beginning of February. However, I think it’s unlikely that vaccines alone can explain the lower overall peak deaths in January. Whatever the reason, it appears to me that the cohort of COVID-19 patients in the Winter were much less likely to die than those admitted in the Spring.
Graph 6 reinforces the point. It shows all-cause recorded deaths by week of the year and location of death. The care home spike in the Spring is visible (yellow bars in weeks 15 – 19). Overall, the proportions of deaths in hospital and at home are about the same and the total number of deaths is significantly lower this Winter than last Spring.
Finally, an article in the Financial Times caught my eye this morning – it was reported in detail in yesterday’s edition of Lockdown Sceptics, but I think it bears repetition. The World Obesity Federation has published a study purporting to show mortality rates from COVID-19 are 10 times higher in countries where 50% of the population are overweight (Chart 2). At first glance there are some problems with this study – correlation does not imply causation, and one is always suspicious of PR manipulation when a report on obesity deaths is released to coincide with ‘World Obesity Day’. The charts presented seem to have curious distinct separations of mortality rates without any intermediate grading – one obvious potential error could be that in developing countries the number of COVID-19 deaths may be under-recorded. Nevertheless, the basic conclusion does fit with multiple other reputable published sources.
Once again, I experience uncomfortable cognitive dissonance when the press, including the taxpayer-funded national broadcaster, repeatedly emphasise the uncommon tragedy of young healthy people dying from COVID-19, but omit reference to the far greater numbers of very old or very fat people falling victim to the disease. I am reminded of Mark Twain’s comment to the effect that: “If you don’t read the news you’re uninformed. If you do read the news you’re misinformed.”
I remarked at the top of the article that I have many more questions than answers. My root cause for bewilderment is this. Reading the published data over the last 12 months leads me to believe that COVID-19 is mainly dangerous to specific segments of the population – principally the over-65s and the overweight. I have not seen any convincing evidence that people under 60 are seriously at risk unless they have pre-existing significant medical problems or are very unlucky – there is emerging evidence of specific underlying genetic susceptibilities to COVID-19 which might explain some of the deaths in younger age groups.
The latest figures show community cases falling, hospital occupancy dropping and vaccination rates soaring, particularly among the vulnerable older age groups.
Therefore, why is it necessary to deprive the vast majority of the population of their civil liberties until June 21st for an infection which poses minimal risk to their health?
The economic damage of lockdown has been starkly revealed by the Chancellor in his recent budget. The relationship between public health and national prosperity is widely accepted. Despite obvious collateral harms, no ‘cost-benefit’ analysis has been provided to justify unprecedented governmental actions implemented on the advice of unelected public health academics. Can anyone explain to me why this is a rational position for our parliamentary representatives to adopt?
Isle of Man Locks Down Again – So Much For Zero Covid!
Lockdown was lifted on the Isle of Man recently, with borders closures, tough rules backed by prison sentences and a supportive population all credited with bringing the infection rate down to zero. Today, the island is back in lockdown. Our regular contributor, Guy de la Bédoyère, is unimpressed.
The Isle of Man has announced a three-week lockdown and school closures. Chief Minister Howard Quayle has his finger on the pulse:
The virus spreads when people mix and so we need to do all we can to minimise that mixing … In the interests of children and broader society, we need to prevent children from mixing.
There you have it. It’s in the Isle of Man children’s best interests to be prevented from mixing. I thought we’d all begun to understand that the exact opposite is true, but in this Orwellian era Quayle’s pronouncement should occasion no surprise.
The tragedy for the Isle of Man’s politicians in the House of Keys is that just like the Land of St Jacinda they thought their lockdowns had the power to annihilate the disease. And still do. The island has reported 58 cases, most of which are linked to an infected ferry crew member. That’s unfortunate because the only option really then would be to ban ferries too. The culprit is the ‘Kent’ variant spreading rapidly among the island’s young people.
The most recent bout of restrictions had only been lifted as recently as the end of January, and last year there was a taste of normality with seven months of no restrictions.
The best quote of all comes once more from Howard Quayle:
I do believe though that if we get this right one more time – if we stamp out once and for all the transmission that has been sitting under the surface for some time now –and in parallel if we protect our vaccination programme – this could hopefully be the last time.
If all is well, as we progress over the next 21 days, I sincerely hope that we will not have to tighten up further. It has worked before. We know what to do.
He hopes to “get this right one more time” because “it has worked before”. Except that it obviously didn’t work before because if it had there’d be no need for another time. But he is confident that with this latest lockdown the virus will be stamped out for good. Yes, Mr Quayle, just like all the other viruses that human beings have stamped out ‘for good’ so easily.
I don’t know what’s more incredible: that politicians can continue to come out with these insane promises, or that so many people are continuing to believe them. How can it be that one of the most invasive, volatile, and contagious viruses ever to afflict mankind is also the one uniquely susceptible to permanent eradication with the simple measure of a lockdown – especially if two previous lockdowns demonstrably didn’t get rid of it?
The Isle of Man was already pioneering our local version of the New Zealand prison island model. Only residents and key workers were allowed in. But since it was one of the latter who brought Covid back, how long before even they are consigned to guarded compounds? Or just banned outright? Perhaps the island could be supplied by helicopter drops?
It’s at times like this you really do start to get a picture of the hideous rabbit hole this crisis is starting to go down. But there is one small glimmer of hope. Quayle seems to be intimating that the vaccines might be the way out. Let’s hope so, because right now there seems to be absolutely nothing else in sight that is going to stop this relentless march towards a lifetime of endless lockdowns, incarcerated communities, and a society where the only means of interaction is within a Zoom screen.
Follow The Politics, Not The Science
We must be “guided by the science” was an oft-repeated refrain in the early days of the Covid crisis – except we weren’t guided by the science, at least not after March 23rd, as we abandoned Pandemic Preparedness Plan and followed other countries around the world, not least the People’s Republic of China, into lockdown. Our Government was making political decisions, not scientific ones, as this superb original article that we’re publishing today makes clear. It’s an exhaustive analysis of the careful preparation that went into pandemic planning and why abandoning that approach had nothing to do with science and everything to do with political expediency. It also documents in meticulous detail how the political approach ended up causing more harm than good. It’s by an epidemiologist with a PhD from a Russel Group university and a retired Professor of Forensic Science and Biological Anthropology (whom Toby put in touch when they both contacted Lockdown Sceptics asking if he could introduce them to someone with the other’s expertise). Here is the executive summary:
This article contrasts the policies pursued by the UK Government in response to the COVID-19 pandemic with prior national and international preparedness guidelines. It begins with illustrative reference to Popper’s criteria defining the scientific method and to seven foundational ethical principles proposed for use in public health education. It then examines scientific evidence for the value of Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions (NPIs) in the mitigation of respiratory virus outbreaks.
It finds that, until mid-March 2020, the UK Government followed existing national and international guidelines recommending low stringency NPIs – such as hand hygiene, social distancing and isolating when sick – to slow the spread of infections. There was some scientific evidence these measures were beneficial and accompanying harms limited. Government advisers assessed SARS-CoV-2 disease characteristics and risks realistically, incorporating known behaviour of similar respiratory viruses.
However, on March 23rd, 2020, an unprecedented lockdown – involving travel bans, stay at home orders and mandatory business closures – was implemented in the absence of empirical evidence for their utility. As well as contravening the existing pandemic preparedness guidelines, this violated key principles of public health ethics and human rights.
Many scientific studies have since shown lockdowns cause considerable harm for minimal benefit and the error has been compounded by a failure to abandon these policies as confounding evidence has accumulated.
These harms could have been avoided if the UK Government had respected the pandemic preparedness guidelines and the scientific and ethical principles underpinning them, and resisted media pressure – or coercion – to behave like ‘many other Governments’. Instead, lockdowns have been extended and repeated, and vindictive suppression of scepticism has increased – including that based on accepted principles of law, ethics and scientific inquiry.
Politics – not the science – caused the UK to become a ‘lockdown autocracy’ with one of the worst pandemic outcomes in the world. An inept but unchallenged administration arose, funded by borrowing and fiscal easing, supported by an acquiescent public highly dependent on Government subsidies, and led by media fear mongering with the manufacturing of ‘heroes’ and ‘villains’, vilification of dissent and condemnation of rational and viable alternatives.
The article concludes that an absence of leadership in the UK allowed human rights law and the ethics and principles of evidence-based public health to be disregarded, precipitating economic and social devastation and excess mortality. If a future such occurrence is to be avoided, new legislation and formal censure of those responsible – whether from politics, media, medicine, science or the judiciary – will be necessary
It’s a long one, so grab a coffee, but very much worth reading in full.
COVID-1984
Party slogans continue to roll in:
LOCKDOWN ENDS WHEN THE CLOCK STRIKES 13
TODAY’S HISTORY WAS WRITTEN LAST WEEK
LOCKDOWN IS LIBERTY
VACCINATION IS VALIDATION
CONFINEMENT IS SAFETY
FEAR IS FREEDOM
LOGIC IS ILLOGICAL
TODAY’S LIES ARE TOMORROW’S TRUTHS
HATING OTHERS IS LOVING THE PARTY
ROOM 101 IS IN EVERY HOUSE
NHS ABOVE ALL
One reader spied Orwell’s pen in the name given to Israel’s tracking bracelets which permit new arrivals to isolate at home rather than in a quarantine hotel. These are known as ‘freedom bracelets‘.
Another offered a quote from the novel itself:
“YOU ARE THE DEAD. … REMAIN EXACTLY WHERE YOU ARE. MAKE NO MOVEMENT UNTIL YOU ARE ORDERED.”
Poetry Corner
Today’s poem is from a reader who calls herself Liberty Walker.
Lazy, Lardy, Lethal Lockdown
Britain’s getting fatter,
We’ve given up the gym,
We’re eating up our take-aways,
It’s harder to stay trim.Boris closed the swimming pools,
And told us ‘stay at home,
Don’t go out unless you must,
But you can pick up the phone.’You can dial out for pizza,
The Chinese opens late,
If you’re looking for a change,
Get curry for your date.You’ll have to date on Zoom,
And eat curry while you chat,
No one sees your bottom half,
They cannot see the fat.This lockdown is quite deadly,
As we eat in great excess,
We’re storing up a crisis
For our precious NHS.
Round-up
- “Death rate back to normal as Covid infections fall by third in a week” – The Telegraph reports on the latest Covid Data that are prompting some experts to call for a faster roadmap to exit
- “Matt Hancock claims he ‘bows to no-one in his admiration’ for NHS staff and praises his nurse grandmother as he defends ‘fair’ and ‘affordable’ 1% pay rise” – MailOnline report on the debacle of pay rise for front line staff. How long before the U-turn? Another 24 hours?
- “It’s time for medics to speak out about unethical virus policy” – Dr Mark Shaw calls on Medics to stake a stand for medical ethics, especially in regard to vaccines, in the Conservative Woman
- “Do not rollout COVID-19 vaccine passports” – The Government has now responded to this petition, repeating the line that it is “reviewing” whether COVID-status certificates could play a role in reopening parts of the economy. Over 263,000 people have now signed and the debate is scheduled for March 15th
- “Health Secretary’s fencing-hopping fitness routine sparks string of memes” – MailOnline has gathered together some of the twitter reaction to Hancock’s playful frolics in the park
- “Grandmother, 66, who was terrified of infecting her family with Covid killed herself by stepping in front of a train” – A tragic story reported in MailOnline
- “Drop in COVID cases resumes after slowdown | Prof Tim Spector” – Tim Spector predicts we won’t fall below the lows of last year due to false positive rates
- “The case against lockdowns” – Whatever the precise effect of lockdowns, their costs far outweigh their benefits and they should be lifted immediately, argues Philippe Lemoine in a magisterial post for the CSPI
- “The Perpetual Covid Crisis” – Editorial in the WSJ on the powerful lobby that wants lockdown to go on forever, despite the falling rates of infections and hospitalisations and despite the ongoing vaccinations
- “The Emancipation of Texas” – “Even in the face of danger, Texas prefers the risk of freedom” writes Jeffrey A. Tucker for AIER
- “Birth Dearth Nine Months Following Covid Lockdowns” – Again for AIER, Gilbert G. Berdine looks at one of lockdown’s many unintended consequences
- “South Dakota Tour In The Time Of Coronadoom” – Writing on the William Briggs blog, Richard Greenhorn reflects on a honeymoon trip to South Dakota where ‘Coronadoom’ is not a way of life
- “Inside Hong Kong’s lockdown prison” – Hong Kong’s draconian quarantine regime is an attempt by its China-controlled political leaders to crush the democracy movement, says Stephen Vines in UnHerd
- “Yes, I know we disobey orders. But what else can I do?” – Antonio Castillo reports for Inside Story on how street vendors in Latin America are breaking lockdown restrictions simply to survive
- “Now there’s a real state of emergency in Victoria” – Beverley McArthur, a Liberal Legislative Councillor for the Western Victoria Region, denounces the nine-month extension of the Andrews’ Governments emergency powers in an article for Spectator Australia
Theme Tunes Suggested by Readers
Twelve today: “Columbia” by Oasis, “Hanging On” by Ellie Goulding, “Lie To Me” by Tom Waits, “How Long” by Ace, “The Future” by Leonard Cohen, “Reason Is Treason” by Kasabian, “The New Pollution” by Beck, “Alienated” by Urban Dance Squad, “It’s Not Funny Anymore” by Babybird, “I Don’t Worry About It” by the Meteors, “Rage Hard” by Frankie Goes to Hollywood and “Trouble Every Day” by Frank Zappa.
Love in the Time of Covid
We have created some Lockdown Sceptics Forums, including a dating forum called “Love in a Covid Climate” that has attracted a bit of attention. We have a team of moderators in place to remove spam and deal with the trolls, but sometimes it takes a little while so please bear with us. You have to register to use the Forums as well as post comments below the line, but that should just be a one-time thing. Any problems, email Lockdown Sceptics here.
Sharing Stories
Some of you have asked how to link to particular stories on Lockdown Sceptics so you can share it. To do that, click on the headline of a particular story and a link symbol will appear on the right-hand side of the headline. Click on the link and the URL of your page will switch to the URL of that particular story. You can then copy that URL and either email it to your friends or post it on social media. Please do share the stories.
Social Media Accounts
You can follow Lockdown Sceptics on our social media accounts which are updated throughout the day. To follow us on Facebook, click here; to follow us on Twitter, click here; to follow us on Instagram, click here; to follow us on Parler, click here; and to follow us on MeWe, click here.
Woke Gobbledegook
We’ve decided to create a permanent slot down here for woke gobbledegook. Today, we bring you the woke makeover of the military-industrial complex, where NATO, the CIA and the US Army are all bending over backwards to emphasis how diverse and inclusive they are while spending eye-watering sums of money on new and better ways to kill people. Paddy Hannam sums it up for Spiked.
This week, the world’s most powerful military alliance tweeted, “Diversity is our strength.” The tweet featured a video of employees of various ethnic backgrounds, including both men and women, telling viewers to “respect our needs” and “embrace our differences”. NATO encouraged Twitter users to share the tweet – which was in honour of #ZeroDiscriminationDay – “to join us in celebrating the differences that make us stronger”. The organisation which bombed Iraq and Libya back to the dark ages is diverse. How nice.
It’s not just NATO that has leapt on the woke bandwagon. Former CIA boss John Brennan – the ‘principal coordinator’ of a US anti-terror ‘kill list’, who also oversaw American drone strikes – revealed his white guilt this week. “I’m increasingly embarrassed to be a white male these days with what I see other white males say,” he told MSNBC.
The US Army is in on the fun, too. It has its own “Equity and Inclusion Agency”, which launched ‘Project Inclusion’ last year. This operation included “listening sessions with soldiers and civilians worldwide to converse on race, diversity, equity and inclusion”. General James C McConville, Chief of Staff of the US Army, said on the army’s website that it “must continue to put People First by fostering a culture of trust that accepts the experiences and backgrounds of every soldier and civilian”. I wonder what the citizens of the many countries the US has attacked in recent years would have to say about that.
The military is signed up to the environmentalist agenda, too. Both the US and British armies are pursuing ‘Net Zero’ emissions targets. The army needs to be “on the right side of the environmental argument, especially in the eyes of that next generation of recruits that increasingly make career decisions based on a prospective employer’s environmental credentials”, according to senior British general Sir Mark Carleton Smith. The military, with its gas-guzzling tanks and fighter jets, is a significant emitter of CO2. So apparently, in order to attract recruits for the next foreign war, we need eco-friendly death machines. …
Raytheon, a defence and intelligence company which makes, among other things, aircraft engines, missiles and drones for the US military, partnered with the Girl Scouts in 2019 in order to promote a feminist message. A company representative said on Raytheon’s website, “we are all about using innovation to make the world a safer place, and we need engineers, especially female engineers, to drive diversity and innovation for the future of our technology”. It seems Raytheon wants more diversity in its bomb-making department.
Worth reading in full.
Stop Press: Soft Power is going woke too, writes Bruce Newsome in the Critic‘s Artillery Row, commenting on the recent Global Soft Power Summit 2021:
How do you turn “soft power” into an anti-racist, anti-Western, pro-China, neoliberal, anti-Brexit aspiration? You partner with the BBC to host a soft power conference. You invite Hillary Clinton to headline it. You introduce her as “the best President we never had”. You put David Miliband on one panel. On another panel, you put David Heymann (the Labour Government’s Chairman of what is now Public Health England). You invite Carl Bildt to represent continental progressives. You invite Tom Tugendhat as your sole “conservative”; a Remainer who won’t disagree with your handwringing about Brexit.
The nominal host of Thursday’s four-hour conference was Zeinab Badawi of BBC World News, who repeated her favourite self-identification as “someone who was born under the African sun”. Clearly unprepared, out of her depth, and star struck, she kept fluffing her lines and circling back to criticism of the West.
Joe Nye, the author of the term “soft power”, was there too, to remind us inadvertently that the wokeness of “soft power” begins with its vagueness
Worth reading in full.
“Mask Exempt” Lanyards
We’ve created a one-stop shop down here for people who want to obtain a “Mask Exempt” lanyard/card – because wearing a mask causes them “severe distress”, for instance. You can print out and laminate a fairly standard one for free here and the Government has instructions on how to download an official “Mask Exempt” notice to put on your phone here. And if you feel obliged to wear a mask but want to signal your disapproval of having to do so, you can get a “sexy world” mask with the Swedish flag on it here.
A reader has started a website that contains some useful guidance about how you can claim legal exemption. Another reader has created an Android app which displays “I am exempt from wearing a face mask” on your phone. Only 99p.
If you’re a shop owner and you want to let your customers know you will not be insisting on face masks or asking them what their reasons for exemption are, you can download a friendly sign to stick in your window here.
And here’s an excellent piece about the ineffectiveness of masks by a Roger W. Koops, who has a doctorate in organic chemistry. See also the Swiss Doctor’s thorough review of the scientific evidence here and Prof Carl Heneghan and Dr Tom Jefferson’s Spectator article about the Danish mask study here.
Stop Press: MailOnline reports on a study which found that the growing trend for double-masking, practised by President Biden and many others, might well be pointless.
Double-masking is only slightly better at stopping the spread of coronavirus than wearing one face covering, a study has suggested.
Japanese researchers said wearing one surgical mask that is fitted correctly could stop up to 85% of viral particles from passing through.
Doubling up on surgical masks offers no benefit because air resistance builds up and causes leakage around the edges of the mask, they claimed.
The study found there was some benefit in wearing a tight-fitting reusable mask on top of a surgical one, but it was marginal, offering up to 89% protection.
The experts, who used a super-computer simulation to test different face covering combinations, said ‘the performance of double masking simply does not add up’.
Their findings contradict recent recommendations from health experts in the UK and US, who have claimed it’s ‘common sense’ two masks are better than one.
Stop Press 2: Those amusing folks at the Babylon Bee have written a spoof article about a progressive who’s pleasantly surprised to discover he can still double mask even when mask mandates have been lifted.
The Great Barrington Declaration
The Great Barrington Declaration, a petition started by Professor Martin Kulldorff, Professor Sunetra Gupta and Professor Jay Bhattacharya calling for a strategy of “Focused Protection” (protect the elderly and the vulnerable and let everyone else get on with life), was launched in October and the lockdown zealots have been doing their best to discredit it ever since. If you googled it a week after launch, the top hits were three smear pieces from the Guardian, including: “Herd immunity letter signed by fake experts including ‘Dr Johnny Bananas’.” (Freddie Sayers at UnHerd warned us about this the day before it appeared.) On the bright side, Google UK has stopped shadow banning it, so the actual Declaration now tops the search results – and Toby’s Spectator piece about the attempt to suppress it is among the top hits – although discussion of it has been censored by Reddit. In February, Facebook deleted the GBD’s page because it “goes against our community standards”. The reason the zealots hate it, of course, is that it gives the lie to their claim that “the science” only supports their strategy. These three scientists are every bit as eminent – more eminent – than the pro-lockdown fanatics so expect no let up in the attacks. (Wikipedia has also done a smear job.)
You can find it here. Please sign it. Now over three quarters of a million signatures.
Update: The authors of the GBD have expanded the FAQs to deal with some of the arguments and smears that have been made against their proposal. Worth reading in full.
Update 2: Many of the signatories of the Great Barrington Declaration are involved with new UK anti-lockdown campaign Recovery. Find out more and join here.
Update 3: You can watch Sunetra Gupta set out the case for “Focused Protection” here and Jay Bhattacharya make it here.
Update 4: The three GBD authors plus Prof Carl Heneghan of CEBM have launched a new website collateralglobal.org, “a global repository for research into the collateral effects of the COVID-19 lockdown measures”. Follow Collateral Global on Twitter here. Sign up to the newsletter here.
Judicial Reviews Against the Government
There are now so many legal cases being brought against the Government and its ministers we thought we’d include them all in one place down here.
The Simon Dolan case has now reached the end of the road. The current lead case is the Robin Tilbrook case which challenges whether the Lockdown Regulations are constitutional, although that case, too, has been refused permission to proceed. There’s still one more thing that can be tried. You can read about that and contribute here.
The GoodLawProject and three MPs – Debbie Abrahams, Caroline Lucas and Layla Moran – brought a Judicial Review against Matt Hancock for failing to publish details of lucrative contracts awarded by his department and it was upheld. The Court ruled Hancock had acted unlawfully.
Then there’s John’s Campaign which is focused specifically on care homes. Find out more about that here.
There’s the GoodLawProject and Runnymede Trust’s Judicial Review of the Government’s award of lucrative PPE contracts to various private companies. You can find out more about that here and contribute to the crowdfunder here.
Scottish Church leaders from a range of Christian denominations have launched legal action, supported by the Christian Legal Centre against the Scottish Government’s attempt to close churches in Scotland for the first time since the the Stuart kings in the 17th century. The church leaders emphasised it is a disproportionate step, and one which has serious implications for freedom of religion.” Further information available here.
There’s the class action lawsuit being brought by Dr Reiner Fuellmich and his team in various countries against “the manufacturers and sellers of the defective product, PCR tests”. Dr Fuellmich explains the lawsuit in this video. Dr Fuellmich has also served cease and desist papers on Professor Christian Drosten, co-author of the Corman-Drosten paper which was the first and WHO-recommended PCR protocol for detection of SARS-CoV-2. That paper, which was pivotal to the roll out of mass PCR testing, was submitted to the journal Eurosurveillance on January 21st and accepted following peer review on January 22nd. The paper has been critically reviewed here by Pieter Borger and colleagues, who also submitted a retraction request, which was rejected in February.
And last but not least there was the Free Speech Union‘s challenge to Ofcom over its ‘coronavirus guidance’. A High Court judge refused permission for the FSU’s judicial review on December 9th and the FSU has decided not to appeal the decision because Ofcom has conceded most of the points it was making. Check here for details.
Samaritans
If you are struggling to cope, please call Samaritans for free on 116 123 (UK and ROI), email jo@samaritans.org or visit the Samaritans website to find details of your nearest branch. Samaritans is available round the clock, every single day of the year, providing a safe place for anyone struggling to cope, whoever they are, however they feel, whatever life has done to them.
Shameless Begging Bit
Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the past 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. Doing these daily updates is hard work (although we have help from lots of people, mainly in the form of readers sending us stories and links). If you feel like donating, please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links we should include in future updates, email us here. (Don’t assume we’ll pick them up in the comments.)
And Finally…
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Profanity and abuse will be removed and may lead to a permanent ban.
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society’s pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he’s in.
But I mean no harm nor put fault
On anyone that lives in a vault
But it’s alright, Ma, if I can’t please him.
Courtesy of Mr Dylan, having got the first post I’ll use it as a handle for a couple of technical questions:
I’ve read on here and heard elsewhere (Dr Yeadon I think) that the current PCR tests can pick up the protein spikes on all coronaviruses. Does anyone know if this correct?? Are many of these +ves actually merely picking up colds?
Also, might it be possible that a previously infected individual who now has T-cell immunity can get ‘reinfected’* when coming into contact with the virus again, but that it never actually appears as an infection – rather the immune system recognises and zaps it before it can do anything? Maybe that (part) accounts for the number of +ve tests we are now seeing.
*When I say ‘reinfection’, I mean the virus enters the body and maybe even starts to replicate, but doesn’t get anywhere (because the T-cells or whatever quickly get it).
As an aside, I fail entirely to understand how we can calculate an IFR without having defined an infection – I don’t know if there is any such definition, but I haven’t seen one.
Mike Yeadon is quite clear that the the T-cells are the first line of defence against infection and in his inteview with James Delingpole explains it in a clear and logical manner. He also explains that T-cells are far less specific and will attack viruses which are only a partial match, hence the fact that even though CV-19 was novel, it was sufficiently like other Corona viruses for the process to work. It is only in the case of a massive infection that they become overwhelmed and then anti-bodies are generated to combat it. The difference between the two is that T-cells replicate at a far faster rate than antibodies, hence the need for longer hospitalisation for the seriously infected who need additional support whilst the antibodies build up to the required level. Sadly, sometimes the process fails and the patient dies.
This process is true for all viral infections.
Thanks Pancho – I’m actually listening to Delingpole-Yeadon now. It’s astonishing – and telling, I think – how hard it is for non-specialists like me to pick up even the basics of what is going on in the immune response. It’s as if we are not supposed to know.
As the good doctor says, SAGE must know about the T-cell process, yet why do they spout nonsense about 94% of us still waiting to be infected?
The study of pathology is not seeking to understand health any more than current ‘climatologists’ seek to understand climate. The framing of pathogenesis operates a negative set.
Biologists can and do uncover a more symbiotic realm of Communication and synergy, but the new wine does not fit into the old wine bottle of fear and leverage – except as can be marketised and weaponised to serve the established funding channels and agencies.
That ‘immunity’ or simply ‘health’ or life is equipped and able to meet challenges has an extension into our conscious acceptance of responsibility.
The wish to evade responsibility and ‘get away with it’ for as long as possible is part of fear of life and healing as loss of right to persist in an ‘abnormal’ or unnatural pattern of behaviour, taken as if it is life, freedom or control, and imposed upon the body, and the body corporate (world), through the mutually aligning of negative self definition and masking narrative identity.
Why do they lie?
Because they have been doing so with impunity for so long that they belive theirs is the right to tell you what you are to think and do.
And for the most part the Many have willingly gone along with what they believe to be power of protection – that absolves them from a core responsibility for their own consciousness, their own life and their own consequences.
Look up Dr Tom Cowan’s recent vid talk. (If you are interested).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N4hqmPaLe4
I appreciate everyone’s willingness on behalf of a truly human future as distinct from systemic subjection to bio-tech control.
After a science 101 and a breakdown of studies that do not show substance for their claims, he offers a short simple overview of the body’s defences or detoxification strategies. He puts T-cells as the third line of defence.
If you are only concerned with a compromised or undermined health, then you might be forgiven for thinking they are the first.
There are known treatments for ‘massive infection’ that are effectively walled out and not used. High dose Intravenous Vit C being but one of them.
Listening to Yeadon (Good man) retelling the virus story last night made me aware that homeopathy is denied as an option because it cant be accounted for – which is not altogether true, but exactly HOW a packet of non-living genetic code fragments has a capacity to ‘hijack’ a living cell, reproduce itself and mutate so as to evade antibodies – is frankly, a fairy story – albeit with tragic consequences.
That new toxic exposures initiate new challenges to adaptive survival drives the pattern of disease, along with lack of support (nutrition and morale).
That we generally aggravate this immune response by trying to suppress or eradicate it is why if the full account were known, the developed countries would likely be found to suffer iatrogenic disease as the main cause of death rather than as the third most recorded. (US and UK).
The idea that we suffer more from our defences or reactions than the event itself – as a result of fear and control agenda COULD BE an Awakening to the Life we forgot and discarded as a result of invoking and masking under a ‘god’ of control.
Any toxic fear or triggering of fear as attack, brings up old trauma patterns. This is below the threshold of a rational mind. When Cowan says we can become sick as a result of delusional perception and reaction he might recognise that all of us have deeper fear of a nature that is hidden until triggered and which our thinking mind has no relationship with but was made to mask over.
TJN, I am not a medical person, but having watched a lot of experts on YT, primarily Sucharit Bhakdi, a micro biologist, who explains things very well, I say yes to your first 2 points:
A PCR tests will pick up DNA of every, or most, Corona viruses.
It also picks up dead cells and DNA/RNA which is till hanging around in our body. So, yes, after our T cells have killed any virus, the rubbish is around and will be picked up by a PCR test.
A PCR tests will pick up DNA of every, or most, Corona viruses.
If that’s true, it’s surely massive – all those thousands of students imprisoned because there’s a cold going around the campus. Whole sections of UK society effectively locked down to save them from a common cold.
Really?? Even with my cynicism and contempt for the perpetrators of this shitshow I struggle to come to terms with that.
Are common colds being presented to the public and politicians as covid-19 cases? It’s an astonishing question to have to ask, yet I really don’t know where we stand on this.
Don’t forget, they cycle the test excessively so it almost inevitably picks up some viral remnants.
Of course, that’s another problem – although in terms of perception and presentation there’s a big difference between covid-19 remnants and ordinary common coronavirus cold fragments.
There are many problems with the PCR test and the wider approach of mass testing healthy people, but the test picking up other coronaviruses isn’t one of them. It doesn’t.
Ok, thanks for being specific on that. I’d be surprised if it did, as it would be effectively useless – but the contrary has been stated, which left me wondering.
PCR 101: First you have to know the DNA code of the part of the virus DNA you want to detect and use a primer of complimentary DNA that will lock onto the virus part. This is then amplified through multiple thermal cycles using an enzyme called polymerase. Then detected at the end of the process. It does not distinguish “live” or intact virus from parts of the virus, but provided the primer is unique to the virus, it will only detect the presence of that virus alone. Primers are chosen to detect sequences unique to the virus of interest.
Of course if the virus has stopped replicating, there won’t be a lot of DNA around to amplify, so amplification will not be detected as easily (needs more cycles and hence noise) because the starting level is so low. If virus is replicating there may be 1000, 10000, 100000 times as much and detection is more reliable.
So we need to know what primer the PCR is aimed at, and which coronaviruses carry that primer?
That should be defined somewhere, so we can answer the question about whether the current tests are detecting common colds?
Sorry to ask such basic questions, but it’s very hard to get to firm ground here (and indeed for any data produced by official sources).
I would suppose the current covid PCR tests are all aimed at the same primer, but that may well be very naive of me …
According to Guy153 who knows whereof he writes (he can come by and correct me if I’m wrong) the test targets specific RNA fragnments most of which are found only in SARS-2 except for one which is also found in SARS 1 which you are unlikely to have. Not in other coronaviruses, yet – how much do they exchange DNA?
That was my understanding of it, until recently when I started reading on here that the test picks up fragments of all coronaviruses. Hence my question.
Maybe we need a technical section on the forums pages, or perhaps the ‘medicine’ one will do, and I should put up this (and other questions I have) there. I don’t know how well frequented those forums are.
When they found various code fragments in 4 Wuhanese patient’s lung fluid, they recognised patterns also in other coronvirus (I don’t know if they looked for part matches with other viruses). They took these parts as pieces of Humpty Dumpty and used existing coronvirus sequences to fill in the gaps and defined this computer stitched composite as Sars-cov2 – then without any real science to assume so, declared covid-19 to be the disease caused by sars-cov2.
So while the PCR can discover even a tiny or molecular sample of a target IF the test is sensitively and rigorously undertaken (the result of which has NOTHING to do with diagnosis or contagion), it will only find what it is primed to detect.
However because almost all of you HAVE emotionally invested in the reaction to a covid19 nightmare, the settling to ‘normal’ with statistical data and its various shenanigans can keep you IN the Virus, instead of looking to see what it is all based on.
If global media lockstep Inc had not blitzkrieged the ‘discovery’ as a WHO telling us we were naked – defenceless – and doomed to lose our loved ones – perhaps by infecting them with deadly contagion! No one would have noticed anything unusual. But they DID and it IS, and as a result loved one will die and almost everyone’s financial status is being degraded – along with the denial of most basic human rights.
Yes. The CDC have published a standard set of primers – which are chains of nucleosides designed to lock onto parts of the SARS-COV2 (and only that) genome. You will see on the link that some are general and some are FDA approved for the purposes of testing for infection. Don’t apologise for basic questions. Scientists should, as a matter of duty, be able to explain matters clearly. If they can’t then they fail in that duty. It’s not my field btw, but the approval process for a diagnostic test is rigorous. They won’t be detecting rhinovirus (most common cold) or the other four endemic coronaviruses (two of which give 1/6 colds).They would fail to gain approval for such use if they did.
One other nice point – the FDA have actually approved a three-in-one PCR test to detect SARS-COV2, influenza A and influenza B. So yes, with the right primer mix, one COULD detect all five coronaviruses.
Thanks – as per my reply to Jon G above.
Scientists should, as a matter of duty, be able to explain matters clearly.
Yes, and in my experience good scientists always can explain complicated matters clearly – it’s a byproduct of clarity of thought.
Trouble is, not much on covid-19 seems to be clear – the product of deliberate obfuscation I think.
I have a technical background, but not in biology/medicine, and when it comes to reading covid research I find it very hard to get to any reliable bedrock.
Yes but also the true or precise provenance of the original from which the primer sequences are selected is unclear and I would claim unreproducible. (Different versions of the RT-PCR test use different primers or short code sequences supposed to be unique to the original ‘novel’ virus).
Some commentary on this lack of clarity is given by Dr Tom Cowen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N4hqmPaLe4
So without an actual whole virus, identified and cultured, so as to sequence its genetic makeup – we could be reading the goats entrails – or rather the re-consitution of fragments found in a Wuhan patient’s vial matters via computer assisted program (weaving with selected coronaviral genomes for continuity) – is NOT a proven discovery of a whole virus. Nor was it ever claimed to be proven as cause of any disease (legal foresight there), and so what we are priming with and seeking for – even with all the known issues of artefacts and false positives – is … WHO knows what.
I understand that in ancient times only a priest could read the goat’s entrails.
The ability to define and declare disease vectors, along with diagnostic and testing parameters and mutate thee at will – sounds more like the virus in mind to be vigilant against.
Only what ‘Simon Says’ must be obeyed. Install your obedience chip by playing along, for a ‘normal’ is anything to which we become conditioned. Killing other people can be made ‘normal’. there IS no love in the mask of virtue, and this is revealing itself as fear set in control seeking to remain hidden.
And WHO told you you were naked? – sayeth the Lord.
Your thinking is lovely, Binra. Expansive and wise.
Yesterday, I replied to the comment about a builder who allegedly received mixed responses to 15 tests carried out on himself:
…: if the government are confident that the tests are accurate, they could destroy the “false positive” argument by sending 100 samples from a single individual to each of their labs and publishing the results.
Does anyone know if anything like this basic level of quality check has been carried out?
A good idea, and to me very logical one.
Presumably they’ve already carried out such quality checks …
Not sure where the results can be found though.
Surely, those youngsters quarantined abroad for weeks while getting repeat positives would answer that question.
Presumably they were just picking up viral debris, after a true +ve at the start.
I read David’s comment as presuming the builder was actually -ve, although he still got a range of results.
As people are receiving positive test results for tests they’ve not even had, it’s a moot point….
Mahyar Live From Anti-Lockdown March
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXVg7YBsAgE
Guess who’s first?
TJN?
Bronze again
The Irish third?
BMJ RR answering global bureaucrats in DC (Bollyky and Kickbusch):
Re: Preparing democracies for pandemicsRe: Preparing democracies for pandemics Thomas J Bollyky, Ilona Kickbusch. 371:doi 10.1136/bmj.m4088
Dear Editor
I find the basis of this article [1] disturbing. The authors assume a common ground of what is information and what is “disinformation” – disinformation is a problematic concept since if it was simply untrue it would be false information instead perhaps of information which is disapproved of in certain quarters.
The foundations of liberal democracy lie in public accountability and open discussions of policy, whereas what we have here is an appeal to authority: there are apparently superior beings to whom democracies should defer. Are they government or corporate bureaucracies (or perhaps non-profit foundations), and where do they gain legitimacy? If we arrive at the point where corporate entities censor what people may read and write we have a problem. In the end being able to ask even the most difficult questions is not only an essential component of freedom but also of safety. Thomas Bollyky and Ilona Kickbusch cite the article by Wilson and Wisongye ‘Social media and vaccine hesitancy’ [2], but we have reached the point where the most reasoned contributions posing important questions about vaccine programmes to be rolled cannot be shared on social media (as I was pointing out here just yesterday) [3].
I do not believe there are any issues in the current geo-political episode which should be off the table.
[1] Thomas Bollyky and Ilona Kickbusch ‘Preparing democracies for pandemics’, BMJ 2020; 371 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m4088 (Published 23 October 2020)
[2] Wilson SL, Wisongye CS. ‘Social media and vaccine hesitancy’, BMJ Glob Health 2020. doi:10.1136/bmjgh-2020-004222
[3] John Stone, ‘Freedom of speech and the generic ban of vaccine criticism on social media’, 22 October 2020, https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037/rr
It could be proposed that the covid psyop is a necessary redefining and reiteration of a controlled narrative amidst a world in which a consciousness is growing as to a lack of substance – not just with regard the the vaccine and pharmaceutical model, but across the spectrum of a corporately invested scientific model – which includes awareness of fundamental and systemic corruptions.
Too big to fail means – everyone and everything else has to ‘fail’ to support the ‘model’.
The choice of the term ‘vaccine hesitancy’ is itself propaganda – as is the death stats use of the term ‘vaccine preventable diseases’. I have it that UK and US and perhaps other developed nations have iatrogenic disease as our third leading cause of death. But you don’t easily find such information.
Hang in there guys
Things are changing. People are no longer listening to the government(s)
Even pro lockdown people are ignoring it
I speak to loads of people privately and they tell they are breaking lockdown. Seeing friends and family
Stay strong guys please
We will. I’m out there.
Me too. I’m through with this s##t and so is my family!
I know of so many examples of people ignoring it
I do see that the tide is turning. However I think that many covidians have always been hypocrites – seeing their own friends & family but always ready to point the finger at others. Even our own politicians who’ve invented these ridiculous “rules” don’t even stick to them.
Great post
Well said. Its pretty much one rule for me, another one for thee….
Even before 4th July, people started breaking the rules
Friends arranging to meet at the supermarket car
Bumping “into” each other in the park
At the start in March, people accepted (and believed) the rules the government set.
Now they don’t. It has not helped the government that they have kept changing the rules!
A lot of people have been writing to their MPs as well.
Most people are sensible with lockdown breaking rules.
The government needs to trust them and us.
While we still need to protect the vulnerable it’s wonderful that people are starting to wake up
Sadly not my experience, just had a bad one and I’m the one accused of being mad because I simply can’t understand why all my friends and family are following the rules. It’s very lonely.
Must be very hard for you. Make the best of this group to save your sanity!
Moomin, you are not alone. I watch everyone around me complying with rotten, destructive and mad laws and wonder what on earth is motivating them.
Hear, hear!!!
Anyone in Tier 3 who thinks it’s just for 28 days is in for a shock. Until March earliest. Ditto the 17 day for break for Wales.
Things are getting REALLY stupid now!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/24/uk-could-be-urged-to-keep-windows-open-in-effort-to-curb-covid-19-poor-ventilation
“But while the report stresses the importance of ventilation, it says other factors must also be considered such as “thermal comfort”, exposure to pollution and energy use.”
So you can maybe stop short of freezing to death.
Has anyone told Greta? The effect on CO2 emissions would be enormous.
Nice – do they mention anywhere the research from Yale that showed lower temperatures negatively impact the ability of the immune system to fight off viral infection?
Or maybe that’s the point of the advice?
Yep… That’s the point of the “advice”! THEY are going for the “Great Rest”!
Gates looks so…….natural
Not enough medals
When there’s a job to be done, just do it well.
Is that gates old school uniform it looks like the SS mindset of eugenics is still with Bill the ripper
Not that it matters to me but I heard something on BBC R4 some months back about open windows being helpful to viruses as humidity actually stops the spread – and opening the window dehumidifies the room . My kids’ school opens windows and doors throughout the day , which will be interesting in January.
It used to be called “catching a chill.”
I thought elderly people died of fuel poverty and cold in quite large numbers every winter?!
Indeed that is probably the plan, when this Government came in it said it would have a final solution to the problem of elderly people’s care costs, it is just that nobody thought it would be that kind of ‘final solution’!
It’s not just the elderly. There’s just too many of us, ask Bill Gates.
Indeed…
I thought it was the advent of vaccines, better hygiene, medicines, etc, that Gates is pushing for that’s been the driving factor in population growth, especially in developing countries. Or am I missing something??
Yes… you’re missing something!
Sanitation, nutrition and morale show as the features that reduced the diseases that mostly focused on the poor. Not vaccines.
It is not hard to find the data on such diseases and the curves being almost flat before the vaccination was introduced.Dissolving Illusions by Dr Suzanne Humphries goes into a lot of detail.
Yes, Gates has been consistent for many years with his loathing for the general populace and sometimes I can almost agree with him.
I get the impression that anyone over 50 is on the shortlist.
The old, the not so old and of course the frail. Bill will spread his net as wide as possible.
Yes… They will just let the younger slaves alive because these are the ones already formatted to accept (in some cases demand) smartphones and apps and robots. and “free” stuff!
They are also the ones more prone to build the machines and write code for the next phase… and feel accomplished by this! After all they “think” they are working to build a “BETTER and GREENER and SUSTAINABLE FUTURE”!
Old and obsolete uman animals are just going to the recycling factory…
And if by 2030 the number of slave heads is still above 4 billion, more “pandemics” will be deployed!
Good ventilation has been obvious from the start and applies to any virus or respiratory problem.
Try that though in our 6 rebuilt high schools. Greenery/ fuel economy paramount so only 2 sides have windows, not opposite so no through draft. No wonder the kids started keeling over when the sun came out.
Our local housing association has an award winning eco office building. In the summer people sit under large umbrellas and with fans on as the roof lights heat the room up, in the winter they all have portable heaters.
Most public buildings are far too hot. I can’t believe that many people heat their bedrooms, including at night, and sleep with the windows closed. I’ve been known to close mine (in Northumberland) if snow is actually coming inside!
This is actually a sensible suggestion and what most older people, particularly in the countryside, know anyway. Diseases spread between housed cattle if their buildings are not properly ventilated and people are no different.
People no different from housed cattle?
Right on!
Then turn the heat down.
In a public building? There’s normally some little Hitler in charge of the thermostat. It’s often behind locked doors!
As long as it’s not freezing I open the back door in the house if I’ve visitors and car windows if I’m in a friend’s car. I’m vulnerable and as a child, my Mum said fresh air was a protection against germs and I follow her advice.I have no wish to go crazy not seeing people or going anywhere.
Ventilating a house is vital to keep mould at bay and air moving around but…nothing kills the poor, ill or vulnerable elderly off quicker than cold temperature. Maybe that’s the point. People won’t use heat energy if it’s going to be wasted out through the window. Then they’ll really get ill. Two birds with one stone – increased deaths, decrease in energy use and carbon emissions! See where this is going?!
In Germany it is common knowledge to air your accommodation several times a day for up to 10 minutes.
We have a very different heating system, with usually individually controlled radiators, so just turn the radiator down while you open the window in that room. It is called Stosslueften.
The room does not cool down noticeably and the fresh air is wonderful.
Yes, and lueften the Bettwaesche. Hang it out the window to air and let the sun kill any germs and generally freshen things up.I do this every day weather permitting. Of course this is easier if you sleep under a Daunendecke and not a tucked-in blanket wrap.
Air-dry your laundry outdoors if at all possible.
BTW, Has Greta said anything about the huge energy waste of electric clothes dryers . . . ?
“The Coroner, a medical man of precise habits and unimaginative aspect, arrived punctually, and looking peevishly round at the crowded assembly, directed all the windows to be opened, thus letting in a stream of drizzling fog upon the heads of the unfortunates on that side of the room. This caused a commotion and some expressions of disapproval, checked sternly by the Coroner, who said that with the influenza about again an unventilated room was a death-trap..”
Dorothy L Sayers, Whose Body, 1923
So we are caught between the Scylla of Covid 19 and the Charybdis of climate change.
And possibly the BLM of Damocles if government failure to subsidise central heating is deemed racist by the BBC.
Anyone needing info about climate change (as false a this pandemic) can look here for a summary of the arguments and issues plus many links
https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/
I have always believed in climate change, but not man-made climate change. I would like someone to show at what point this planet’s climate stopped changing? All for conservation and efficient use of finite resources though – that’s just common sense.
In any event, as most wine amateurs will know, wine grapes were cultivated as far north as Norway in medieval times – that hasn’t been possible for a long while as things have cooled off since, but it’s obviously quite unlikely that the warming of the 1st millenium AD was man-made…
A very fair point, but what on earth has that to do with the lockdown?
Same movers and shakers.
That’s a fair point as well.
The man-made bit of both works a guilt and fear leverage on the minds of the people. Environmentalism is trained to self-hate the human virus.The AGW has the same fundamental objectives as are being tolled out as progressive and repeated lockdowns – to recondition people to guilt for existence, to be paid for by sacrifices by which to ‘save’ the system, but which can never be paid off.
I agree with you.
Don’t forget the cancel culture!
The April 1st spoof news story is going to be hard to spot next year.
It will make no difference whatsoever
Actually we should have done that in the first place, open windows and fresh air (even the polluted air of an inenr city) are better for your health than stfufiness and dust. We shouldn’t have locked down, at all, should have just opened the f***ing windows. As several of us were saying back in March.
You can offset pollution to some degree with vit B and C – I have seen studies that support this.
You may NEED to have respiratory ‘disease’ to detox.
Vit D is very active in immune support. T-cells are not even activated if D levels are too low.
Go figure, your ‘health care’ system pharms you for sickness. OR thse facts would not just be published and ignored but part of a collective education.
Protecting the fear does not do more than mask and suppress the symptoms. This can be great as a temporary intervention in which to centre or regroup.
There were reports last month of kids shivering in classrooms with windows and doors wide open. That will be fun in January – not!
Reconditioning our physical is possible. I have an encyclopedia from the 50s with photos of scarcely clad Swiss boys getting fresh air and sun outside in the snow – they carried their desks outside.
Just read Dr Simon Clarke’s article ‘What lockdown sceptics get wrong’ in the Spectator. It’s terrible! Apparently there is no serious debate about herd immunity as ‘no precedent for natural infections providing lasting herd immunity’
That’s because when they talk about immunity what they think it means is eradication. The zero Covid fantasy permeates their thinking.
Just the fact that there have been numerous viral pandemics and we weren’t wiped out as a species centuries ago.
Especially the pandemics that are thought to have killed 50% of the total human population.
Which is why crying wolf over the equivalent of a bad dose of flu is so dangerous.
But every time they do it they get richer and gain always ore control. Why not have it ALL?
Humans 2 million years, virus every 10 years or so = 200,000 Terrible Global Pandemics.
Yes indeed.
When Europeans first went to the Americas, the plagues of infections they brought wiped out most of the locals. However, immunity developed, and the native populations stopped dying in numbers from Yellow Jack, smallpox etc.
The author is either ignorant, a charlatan or a knave. Perhaps all three..
Such plague preceded the Europeans.
Read Lies my Teacher told me by James W. Loewen
It isn’t about that but includes that fact as well as a lot more of a nuanced history. Also an fun and good read in my opinion.
You may have seen my comments on that article. I expressed scepticism about that proposition, since I’m old enough to remember getting measles. Here’s what I think was going on back then.
Measles is highly infectious (R0 around 15, say 5 times Covid) and recovery confers lifetime immunity . Between say 1900 and 1960 the number of cases was in decline, probably due to improved living conditions, clear water, sanitation and so on. The serious statistical study of measles started very early: I found a paper dated 1906. By 1960 it was well-known that the disease was largely a disease of children; that it ran in roughly two-year cycles; the number of cases varied from 100,000 to 500,000 a year, with a pretty stable case fatality rate of 1 in 2,000. There was a high rate of serious non-fatal injuries: brain damage, blindness and deafness for example.
This is characteristic of, and described in the scientific literature as, the behaviour of an endemic infection in which the majority of the population is immune, but there is a steady influx of susceptible individuals (births). What happens is that when the number of susceptible individuals reaches the “epidemic threshold” there is an serious outbreak, infections spread rapidly, and the number of susceptible individuals falls to well below the threshold. In this case, because mixing of children happens largely at school, the outbreaks aligned with the new school year.
It is simply a verbal quibble to deny that this was herd immunity. The adult population at any given time had herd immunity, and must have done since cases were observable almost entirely among children. It is reasonable to presume that herd immunity among adults was based on natural immunity after exposure to the disease as children.
It is true, of course, that young children as a group did not have herd immunity. They formed a distinct “compartment” with a different dynamic. But it’s at best a verbal trick, and at worst simply wrong, to say that herd immunity was not achieved for measles.
Whatever you want to call it, the “measles situation” represented a tolerable way of life in the 1950s. We did not put children under severe restrictions to try and eradicate this disease, although the serious consequences were sufficiently bad to give impetus for development of a vaccine for that purpose.
“ There was a high rate of serious non-fatal injuries: brain damage, blindness and deafness for example.”
But they don’t go around calling it “long-Measles”.
Standard medical practice is to give the measles vaccine once 1 year old, not at birth. This reflects confidence that the existing mix of natural and vaccine induced immunity gives enough herd immunity to make even an extremely contagious disease (R0 around 15 as vs 2 to 3 for flu or covid) unlikely to hit someone in a year of posible exposure time. Measles, from what I can tell, is actually a much more serious disease than covid as well as much more transmisible, and we never locked down for it.
“It is true, of course, that young children as a group did not have herd immunity. They formed a distinct “compartment” with a different dynamic. But it’s at best a verbal trick, and at worst simply wrong, to say that herd immunity was not achieved for measles.”
Not sure what you mean by this.
Perhaps it hinges on how you define “young children.”
I too had measles, chicken pox, and mumps, along with virtually all of the other children in my school. We were grades 1 to 4 in one school room, so, ages 6 to 10. My mother was German and I have no idea whether she had had these childhood diseases. If not one would think that she and other grown-ups who had not had the diseases would be vulnerable when the children caught them. But I think there were a few children who did NOT catch the diseases.
When I myself lived in Germany as an adult in the seventies I had a boyfriend who did get mumps, and of course mumps is very dangerous for adult males. I was very surprised that he had not had it as a child. But back in those days we didn’t obsess about these diseases.
Another interesting topic is herpes simplex I (cold sores). My mother was always prone to these. I may have picked up the virus from her. I recall quite suddenly having a terrible outbreak that covered most of my mouth and the whole area below my mouth, almost down to my chin. One of my classmates also had a similarly bad outbreak so quite possibly I gave it to her—or she to me? But I htink we were the only two in the school room to get that. Also infectious, so why didn’t more get it?
I do not know the status of HSV from an immunity point of view. I do know that once you get it the virus “hides” in the nervous system and will come out again and cause outbreaks if triggered in various ways. So that is a virus that we have to live with. Cannot “eradicate” it. I suppose I would have to kill myself to eradicate it once and for all . . . Shingles is also caused by a herpes virus. One simply has to live with it and avoid the triggers (too much sun; stress; poor nutrition; ya da ya da). . .Same for corona viruses, including SARS-CoV-2.
Because we still have polio and smallpox rampant in the UK….
Without a vaccinaction programme, we would presumably have periodic outbreaks of polio and smallpox in the same way as we used to do for measles, as Richard describes above.
The difference with CV19 seems to be that the newborns and young can be infected and recover without grave detrimental effect. So herd immunity can be achieved in the long term without the help of vaccination.
Our transitional problem, which to an extent decreases with each death of an infirm infectee, is the low immunity in the infirm cohort.
Their immunity is low to every infectious disease, full stop.
Not so. I don’t think I’m likely to get measles again, even after 67 years. Or whooping cough. Or mumps. Or scarlet fever.
Smallpox was eliminated in the UK by a highly coercive vaccination programme, and ultimately eradicated, as far as we know, throughout the world. Polio similarly was eliminated in the the UK in the 1980s. Before polio vaccination, the UK did show the characteristic two or three year cycle between about 2,000 to 7,000 cases a year.
We had the polio vaccines (first the jab, and later the oral) in the fifities, but no vaccines for measles-pox-mumps. We all knew a few people who had had polio and had a withered limb. My cousin had it and consequently has a withered arm.
Polio is a far more serious disease than covid-19. In large part because it strikes the young and turns them into cripples.
These are not true statements.
Smallpox was increased by vaccinations, but disappeared worldwide or so diminished as to no longer merit diagnosis, regardless whether vaccine programs were run or not. Polio was very similar in some respects to covid as an umbrella diagnosis that covered heavy metal toxic damage – firstly for herbicides in the sugar cane industry – with the big ‘wave’ associated primarily with DDT – which is not banned in the ‘third’ world. The changing of diagnostic parameters assigned what had been coined polio to other medical definitions.
You may be invested in your beliefs but if you research honestly you will be disturbed, but in time better off with a more truly aligned appreciation of what really makes us ill. No one will see what they are unwilling to accept. I am not seeking to deny your right to your beliefs.
There is every precedent for natural infections giving lasting immunity, maybe those zealots could try the weak argument the covid might be different from almost every preceding disease (one or two viruses can do multiple infections, or worse one second time), but when they start saying that lasting immunity is a rarity they haven’t a leg left to stand upon. Colds and flu infect people time and again only because they have mutated to a substantially different new strain second time round, but covid is proving itself very stable, almost no mutation since 2019 despite having infected >10% of the world.
Is there proof of that?
The four other endemic coronaviruses typically reinfect about once every two years. Lifelong immunity to any pathogen is not a given and some viruses are never cleared, for example Chickenpox, HIV. Different viruses evade immunity in many different ways. Severity of infection may, however, wane with passing years of exposure.
HIV is now recognised to not cause AIDS. There is deep controversy as to whether such a retrovirus exists, quite apart from whether it is ‘a’ cause of AIDS. Again asymptomatic (healthy) people triggering PCR positives are ‘infected’ (by voodoo?).
However AIDS is an umbrella term for a dysfunctional and weak immune function – such that diseases that normally don’t have any severer clinical significance for the 99% can be fatal.
Researching the AIDS controversy would offer a lot of perspective on current events. There is a lot online but ‘Fear of the Invisible’ By Janine Roberts is a good read.
The pathogenic assignment to notional entities is one narrative approach to a set of symptoms. But once in the mind as official or ‘settled science’, the testing can generate ‘hidden or latent infections threatening to wipe us all out – and thus generating otherwise unimaginable funding and control under a War set against evils. Not a few HIV test positives committed suicide on being told they had an incurable and fatal disease which deadly drugs could delay but they had to act Now!
The Media version of history is not usually challenging the established channels of wealth and power
Once the Virus has been set as the new Ideal – every kind of opinion can bask in its glory.
I have seen studies where different variants are classified. However, I also see a virus that tells us in advance what it is going to do….
It was absolutely dreadful. If the DT continues to print such rubbish, I’ll be cancelling my subscription – which I only took out so I could follow Toby’s links!
The focus on pathology discards actual immunity and substitutes it ongoing and repeated ‘boosting’ as the meaning for immunity. Likewise with a collective adaptation.
They ignore health as irrelevant – and something to bring INTO the parameters of medical oversight – often from Day 1 in many countries with vaccinations. (Vacca = cow).
But also with the shift from clinical cionditions to risk factors uncovered by blood tests and biomarkers, that trigger medications that in many bring on toxic effects called ‘side effects’ when recognised but treated with further medications for the most part as development of disease, aging and a body that is inadequate, weak and full of faulty genes.
The fear that you are weak and unsupported feed you to the fear that doesn’t rest through and heal in a good or cleansed heart, but freaks out and runs for the magic pills – that MUST be powerful because they have all these ‘side’ effects.
If you are on such a regimen it may be wise to educate and find support in weaning from them. I am not suggesting anything but a process of re-education – led by you and guided by such advisors and support as you discern or discriminate to truly serve your well being.
So the Lancet will publish a pro-lockdown study from Dr You Li but not an anti-mask study from Denmark. Really! Of course, if we all crawl under our respective beds and never come out again then no viruses will ever get spread. My God do people need to wake up. The article from Dr Franklin was especially moving in describing all we used to love about life. We are left with an impoverished existence. Rise up folks.
The Lancet lost all credibility when it published that bogus anti-HCQ article a few months ago then had to retract it. It has obviously been bought off so it’s no surprise that they won’t touch the Danish article. MW
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/498061-the-lancet-blasts-trump-says-voters-should-not-reelect-him
“The Lancet blasts Trump, says voters should not reelect him
The Lancet, a prestigious medical journal, on Friday ripped President Trump’s “inconsistent and incoherent national response” to the coronavirus pandemic, saying in an unsigned editorial that voters should ensure he does not get a second term.
“Americans must put a president in the White House come January, 2021, who will understand that public health should not be guided by partisan politics,” wrote the peer-reviewed journal founded in 1823. ”
I think this tells us a lot.
Bought-off doesn’t begin to cover it, does it? Shocking. MW
““Americans must put a president in the White House come January, 2021, who will understand that public health should not be guided by partisan politics,” wrote the peer-reviewed journal founded in 1823. ”’
Erm, and hey, what about medical journals not getting involved in partisan politics . . .
Gosh, none of the Lancet editors noticed this own-penalty?
Post today on my university email list:
As soon as Biden becomes president his first action will be to mandate masks nationally.” This and similar drivel from graduates of our most prestigious uni. I doubt that one of these highly educated proselytizers has read a single actual study of mask effectivenes.
Got challenged about my maskless status for the first time in months this morning (in fact, only the second time since all this madness started). Also in my local Iceland store
Was allowed to continue shopping when I advised that I was exempt.
Hyde Park at noon.
Begging to be ‘permitted’ to open your gym is not going to help at all in the long term. We need to restore our freedom – not join in with our oppression by engaging in campaigns to modify the list of so called essential services.
And the idea of people exercising in masks must not be normalised. That cannot be safe, particularly when the air conditioning in gyms is functioning at very low capacity.
I take your point but it’s good that 100 gym owners have united. If they weren’t in contact with each other and had just defied the rule by opening up then the authorities would’ve picked them off one by one until they all closed. I hope they all stick and fight together.
If the effing spineless grovelling Welsh supermarkets refused to implement Dripfeed’s insane rules, what the ffff. could he do about it? Close them all down? Have armed guards over the kettles 24/7?
Cups of tea matter
Black coffee matters
Blocked aisLes Matter
Food rationing is a cause of rioting ?
Good to see them united, now they need to be forceful together. 100 of them together in open defiance, rather than mere futile attempts to work through a legal system utterly biased against them, can win.
Point taken, but the Liverpool gym rebellion was still an incredibly brave action, at a time when almost everyone seems on board with the madness.
Dripfeed is insane. Clearly.
Criminally insane.
Attenborough voice: “But for some turtles, the journey will end only in disaster…rather than heading towards the open sea some turtles inexplicably go further inland, their slow, agonising progress taking them towards their final date: starvation and dessication.”
Attenborough voice: ‘here we see the devastation of the Arctic caused by climate change brought on by carbon emissions, particularly from air travel. We wanted to film more, but my private jet was due to leave.’
Same league as Sturgeon
Found on the BBC of all places!
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201014-totalitarian-world-in-chains-artificial-intelligence
Welcome to The Great Reset.
This is year 1 of 10. Do you think DecadeOfHealth is going to be good for us? Or good for them? Total enslavement or death? When death is likely to be the easier or better option…
Ironically we are not in the front line for the ongoing cull, at least not yet. The poor countries have to bear the brunt of death. And yes it has already begun. These things take time hence why ten years. If this is the first year have you any idea what things will be like after ten?
Of course we are already undergoing our own cull, the elderly, suicides, cancer, heart disease, etc. All tended to by the useful idiots who think that feeding others to the crocodile will save them. It won’t.
Only the top 1% of society will get out of this, in fact are driving this.
Our enemy is very clever. Yes even Boris! They are extremely determined. They have tried this before (MERS, SARS, etc.) and each time they have failed they have learned from their mistakes. They are relentless.
The oncoming cull, for that is what it is, is is going to dwarf The Holocaust, it probably does already but the devious sods have divided & conquered so well that everything is compartmentalised so we can’t see the total deaths or the total costs. And we won’t until either it’s too late or it doesn’t matter because they can no longer be stopped.
There are only two ways this is going to stop. Either with a mass uprising. Sorry that ain’t gonna happen, as a race we are lemmings. The other way is the law of sod or unintended consequences. When an unintended consequence happens there will be a very limited opportunity to break the cycle of what is happening.
That’s it. The Great Reset or Holocaust 2.0. It’s all a matter of perspective, which side of the fence you are sat on.
Six billion people need to die, we are a civilised society so this can be managed in a ‘civilised’ way and the herd mustn’t be spooked or they’ll never get to the abattoir. It will be a terrible waste of resources if the military needs to be used to resolve this problem. Far better if the population(s) self manage this population deflation themselves with the minimum of fuss.
The virus? They had to use a mild virus, Ebola Zaire has a 90% death rate but leaves the area uninhabitable. If you’re going to ‘inherit the earth’ you don’t want it contaminated do you?
Holocaust 2020.
Probably more like 2021, as the various vaccines (all backed by BMGF) will then be ready and they are very clearly intended to be the main culling tool.
Cant seem to find that article at that link. Has it been removed?
Works fine for me.
The link works – just cant seem to find an article containing that text.
It doesn’t. Those are ON’s thoughts on the subject.
So, if the idea of this is depopulation, why not just ‘let the virus rip’? After all, it is doing as Nature intends and taking out the non productive and reproductive members of society who, in a modern capitalist economy, are the least productive and useful.
Why all this hysteria and cost when the virus could be left to get on with the job on its own?
That’s where the conspiracy theories fall down.
I’ve thought about that and it may be as simple as Boris et al do not want to appear too callous. All the political class will want their gravy train to continue.
Can they possibly appear any more callous than to date?
If we just ‘let the virus rip’ and got on with our lives we would not even notice it. This is not the deadly virus it is made out to be. It is the hysteria and lockdown that is doing the killing not the virus.
This is primarily about total control of the population. The depopulation is an inevitable side effect.
Agreed mostly, but they really do want to depopulate and massively at that, so full control is essential. The reality is that the globalists no longer need the great masses to sustain them and they want the planet for themselves as a clean green game reserve.
It was all written down on the Georgia Guidestones back in 1980 and this is what the Great Reset is really all about. Nearly all of us will have no place in this clean green world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=360hDfzC03c
I do actually agree with what your saying. They do wish to kill us off. While I describe it as a side effect I do think its an intentional side effect and they are responsible for the death they are causing but just that primarily they need to maintain control. As long as they have control they can continue to pretend to save us while implementing policies that will certainly kill us.
We are on the same wavelength. It’s a big step to accept that those at the very top regard us as highly undesirable and eminently disposable. However, it’s a vital step, that has to be taken, if we are to have any chance of surviving the Covid scam. Those vaccinated for Covid-19 will be dead people still walking, at least for a brief while.
If this virus came out a few decades ago before widespread PCR testing was available we’d never have noticed it, just seen a minor excess death count (minor because most excesd deaths are from lockdown not covid) which would be written off as “winter-flu-arriving-late”.
Because they already know that the genocidal results of the restrictions will kill more than the virus?
As savedtodeath says, this virus is too pathetic to do much widespread harm. But thats a good feature, as mentioned in the article Ebola could kill 90pc but would leave the planet uninhabitable for the elite.
But are there enough of the elite to sustain themselves? Too many are childless, and frankly couldn’t change a lightbulb on their own if they had to.
They might well get their vision, then wish they hadn’t.
That’s why the Roman elite used to adopt healthy children.
The Romans had a lot of slaves …..
Rather than falling down I think the conspiracy theories are becoming less like theories everyday.
The fact that countries all over the world are using the same virus repression measures that look a lot like the sort of actions an occupying force would take,should be the clincher.
Yep. We’ll fight the bollox a lot more effectively if we acknowledge the worldwide attempts to reduce our numbers, destroy small/medium businesses, and implement 2030.
A virus is far too indiscriminate and unreliable. Vaccines can be tailored for the end user, as is already being tried out for the flu vaccine.
If ‘they’ really want to control population, why not just instigate a mass sterilisation programme in developing countries? It would be expensive – massive bribes to dictators and large grants to those undergoing the procedure – but in the long run would be cheaper than their current destruction of the global economy.
You haven’t been keeping up with the Alt-News. Bill Gates has already done this in India, to the extent that there is alleged to be an arrest warrant out for him in some areas.
Huge numbers of people are alleged to have been made sterile by his vaccination programme.
Well done to the Indians now for Soros Clinton’s Blair etc
Also rather ironically, 496,000 left with some form of paralysis as a result of one of Bill’s polio vaccine campaigns in India. Bill was just practicing then, but Covid-19 will be the real opportunity for him.
HPV vaccine?
If they ‘let the virus rip’ (pure propaganda of course) it wouldn’t actually kill many people would it? That’s the whole point. This has never been about a virus.
We ‘conspiracy theorists’ are looking at the cover it gives for total control: cashless society, mandatory vaccines, constant testing, collapse of the NHS, immunity passports, total surveillance, UBI and the whole works.
Some people believe that Bill Gates meant what he said when he cackled, ‘You’ll notice the next one’ in an interview i.e. a much worse and really deadly virus could be released at any time. What do you think Fauci et al’s documented ‘Gain of Function’ research on weaponising viruses is for?
Failing that, dodgy vaccines, suicides, lack of health care, extreme poverty and disease, widespread despair, lack of opportunity/enthusiasm to form relationships etc will result in the desired controlled cull. There’s no big hurry, ‘they’ can just sit back in their gilded palaces and enjoy the show. MW
The theory the purpose of lockdowns is population control makes sense because when you look into it the effects of lockdown. Since March the NHS has been shut down to non covid patients which results in people dying due to lack of medical care.
An effective method of population control is to discourage people having children. There are numerous ways lockdowns does this. If you don’t live with your partner, you may not be able to meet them in your home due to lockdown restrictions such as you can’t have anyone from outside your household in your home. The venues where people meet new partners such as pubs, nightclubs, concerts, festivals and gyms are forced to close or operate under restrictions. Lockdown prevents people forming and maintaining relationships which means people who would otherwise have children won’t do so.
If couples live together, lockdowns discourage them from having children. If people loose their livelihoods either through loosing jobs or their businesses going bust, they will not want children. A dystopian world where everyone wears masks, the economy has collapsed and there are petty, stupid and pointless regulations is not a world people want to bring children into.
A deadly virus against which they themselves can be efficiently vaccinated in advance would be their wet dream I assume… but you’d have to test that out thoroughly in real-life situations before going ahead with the big one, wouldn’t you?
Hard to say how this could be being planned but Gates did say to camera what he said. Maybe he has a twisted sense of humour! A lot of people seem to believe that another, more serious, virus is in the pipeline but I’m not sure. As I said above, they can achieve population reduction without going that far and the current Cult of Covid is keeping most of the world’s populations passive and accepting of the ever-increasing tyranny. MW
The virus clearly isn’t capable of depopulation, however, whether a deliberate conspiracy or a sickening cockup, lockdowns certainly do a pretty effective job of culling people.
“Why all this hysteria and cost when the virus could be left to get on with the job on its own?
That’s where the conspiracy theories fall down.”
No, they don’t (I’ll ignore the use of the detestable distraction “conspiracy theory” for now).
The disease isn’t enough to cull enough. The true goal is to get everyone in a panic so that they ACCEPT the draconian measures that make up the Great Reset. The plandemic is a pretext and also, remember, an exercise.
Please do watch Reiner Fuehlmann’s video. it is very clear. Should be linked on the right at the LD site homepage.
Because ‘the reaction’ is the killer – not the ‘virus’.
If I shared this, I’d just get – “Oh that sounds good – what’s your problem with it?”
The people you’d share it with are keen to commit suicide, or watch millions die of starvation are they? I bet not.
“If a malevolent group or government suddenly gained world-dominating power through technology, and there was nothing to stand in its way, it could lead to an extended period of abject suffering and subjugation. A 2017 report on existential risks from the Global Priorities Project, in conjunction with FHI and the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Finland, warned that “a long future under a particularly brutal global totalitarian state could arguably be worse than complete extinction”.”
China. Worldwide Social credit system. Big Tech monitoring everyone, censoring and destroying dissent.
I can see it happening all too easily. It’s already started, with certain people deciding what can and what can’t be questioned, discussed, or seen.
This riff on planned depopulation via virus/sterilising vaccine is totally loony.
Even before the pill arrived in the early 1960s people were campaigning for population reduction as a response to poverty and the subjugation of women, but then it was a pro contraception movement. I remember something called the International Planned Parenthood Foundation, and ‘family planning’ was the PC phrase for contraception.
It has slowly become clear over the last 50 years that availability of contraception is fervently desired by women, and population naturally stabilises or even falls when it is both available and women get the opportunity for education and satisfactory health care for themselves and their children. This outlandish nonsense only makes the sceptic case look ridiculous.
There’s a serious problem, Sylvie. On the one hand the outlandish ideas do sound absurd and for a great many people, as you say, make the sceptic case look ridiculous…on the other hand it’s true that there has for a long time been plans to radically reduce the global population. It’s fully documented and embedded within the global warming scam.
It’s a tight schedule because they want it down to one billion by 2030. ‘They’ of course are not monolithic and so different global players have different details to their plans.
Wasn’t she Kellogg’s mentor?
He was a serious nutjob!
I think Kellogg was her mentor or at least funded her.
But, there is a big difference between voluntary control of one’s own reproduction and forced contro by the state. Surely that is pretty obvious? Whatever happened to the hidden hand, where everyone’s individual decisions lead to the most efficient use of resources?
Oh, I guess that doesn’t apply to fertility (snark).
It’s free market for economic decisions but centralized state for fertility decisions . . . Hmmm …
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/22-unemployed-for-every-job-in-the-west-of-ireland-39662129.html
Confirms that the West of Ireland has been worst hit by the impact of lockdown measures relative to the rest of the country, primarily due to relying more on tourism/hospitality for employment.
In other news, the Irish Independent is reporting that the first vaccine will be available in Ireland before Christmas (paywall article so I haven’t linked to it). I won’t be in the queue to get it.
Someone suggested all the pro Lockdowners, particularly all civil servants and government bodies should be injected first. I agree.
I’m a civil servant. Please don’t lump me in with the lockdown zealots. I’m as fed up with this crap as the rest of you.
And me!
And me!
Nice to know that not all civil servants “are just following orders”
Civil servants, like other people ,should be given a choice over vaccination. Lockdown zealots should be given first dibs on the vaccine, after all, “if it saves one life”.
Don’t think you’ll have to give them first dibs, they’ll be queuing up around the block with their sleeves rolled up (and their masks on of course!)
Mike Yeadon says as there is a recovery rate of 99.9 % there is no need for a vaccine, also the very people who it is intended to protect – the elderly – do not respond well to flu vaccines. Also it is designed to only limit symptoms, it does not prevent infection.
Of course it doesn’t, makes sir Patrick very rich though!!!
I’m usually pro-vaccine (anti-lockdown, anti-restrictions, but know that for viruses worth worrying about, of which covid is not one, vaccines work), but I actually hope the covid vaccine has bad side effects immediately visible. Anything enough to get it withdrawn. It will serve the fools in government right for pursuing an insane course of waiting for a vaccine when a herd immunity strategy could have been more efective and less harmful.
I don’t think this is about a vaccine. The short-term goal is the “health passport”
All narrative leverages cover for regulatory stricture. Once the law and its enforcement is established – along with a mindcapture of support, any number of parameters can be set to degrade and diminish the capacity or consciousness of any potential opposition.
There was a very adverse reaction to the Swine flu vaccine. I don’t see that much happened as a result to stop the same scams being perpetuated over and again.
Is there anyone more patronising than Dr Sarah Jarvis who is inflicted upon us with her “mummy knows best” rictus grin every flaming day on Jeremy Vine?
The simple answer is …. no. Always have a sick bag at the ready.
Sick bag may help with the mess but the off button is the cure.
I can’t stand any of the tv doctors and I think Dr Scary Jarvis is a twerp. As I don’t have a t v licence the only time I’m exposed to her drivel is in the dentist’s waiting room. A rare occurrence, thankfully.
That was my first thought. The presenters too – trying to baby people who have a far firmer grasp on what’s going on than them.
The presenter said – “Now let us hear from a scientist”. I imagine my shock when Jarvis appeared.
Agree. Have just watched that clip and been shouting at the video at how patronising both she and the presenters were towards the couple. Let them stay inside with full masks and hasmat suits on if they want, but, as Maureen and her husband say, let people get on with their lives. So what if the NHS hospitals become full – why can’t GP’s treat people at home like they used to???? Would be safer than going into hospital.
Yes Dr Sarah Jarvis and also the two presenters were doing their best to make Maureen and her husband look stupid. I can only say that it backfired. Jarvis shaking her head and telling Maureen’s husband that he’s never lived through an epidemic like this!! Yes he has!!The only difference this time is the media propaganda forced down our throats, scaremongering with their exaggerated figures of ‘case’s deaths and wild predictions. When told by the slimey Jarvis that it was all to do with keeping the NHS from being overwhelmed, I wish Maureen had chance to repeat what she said in her first interview on the street, which was….there won’t be any money to pay for an NHS if we keep these silly measure.
I loved the bit when the husband contradicted the presenters when they asked about the character of his wife, and I must admit his reply brought a tear to my eye.
Who??
What can we do?
I’m as frustrated and angry as anyone over the continued restrictions, but I feel powerless to do anything about it. I have written to my (Phillip Davies) MP twice, but he’s one of the rebels anyway, so I’m pushing at an open door.
Is there an anti-lockdown movement that is actively promoting our cause, persuading the public to rebel and getting in the face of our politicians and so-called journalists?
Lockdown Sceptics has been an oasis of sanity, but I’m looking for an organisation with a more pro-active agenda.
Any suggestions?
Join your local Keep Britain Free group. Im in the Sussex one and we have an activity planned for next Saturday, walking through Eastbourne centre unmasked with music it was done in Berlin recently. The last activity went well too handing out leaflets and chatting to shoppers in a big group
Try to persuade family, friends, neighbours and colleagues
Go maskless
Boycott anywhere that is overzealous in enforcing the nonsense, and tell them why you are doing it
Push back and question nonsense rules from schools, work, or whatever organisations you are involved with
Post information and comments on social media
Sign petitions
Crowdfund good causes
Attend demos
Support political parties and other groups that are sceptical (SDP, Heritage, Reclaim, UKIP, KBF)
Stay sane and healthy
Use cash ! Only cash !
Boycott places that don’t accept cash (if possible).
In Ludlow there is a bakery and cake shop that only accepts cash and refuses card payments
I love it when a whingeing coronaphobe with a card walks in to this kind of shop and gets told his only way to pay is with those wonderful notes and coins he fears so much. Have seen it several times, even more fun when the shop normally takes both shitty card and civilised cash, but today the card machine has failed.
Boycott them full stop, never mind if possible. If they won’t take cash and you’ve no choice but to use them, force exact change in to their hand and walk out with your rightfully purchased goods. Coins and notes are legal tender.
I’m with you on this one. Really need to find a way of actively taking power and control back to the people.
I regularly thank my local MP for her stance voting against the worst from this government, and on occasion have had personal response from her, including a phone call one night just before the last election.
I know Esther is on the same side as me.
Make posters ,stickers ,there’s some templates in the forum under posters /tee shirts . As someone said find a local group ,think there’s also contacts for different areas in the forum or just get a couple of mates to work with i’m sure you can come up with ideas .Good luck
Save Our Rights UK does some good pro-active work.
StandupX has regular local meetings in some areas, though their agenda can be mixed.
There tends to be anti-lockdown rallies every weekend.
There was a large one in central london yesterday.
Another big one is planned on the 28th Nov.
Check out:
‘save our rights’
‘www.Standupx.info’
‘stopnewnormal’
FFS the Guardian offices need to be burned to the ground! The vaccine will be next to useless, so we’ll have to stay locked up forever guys. There’s literally no alternative, so don’t argue. Have a great Saturday!
Other than that, however, I do feel strangely positive today. Some fight back in Wales, the focus groups reflecting my experience when speaking to most people, and even the murmurings of govt scientists about herd immunity in London “despite” only 13% antibodies.
Although Sturgeon sounds as psychotic as ever, unfortunately.
They will shortly be bankrupt so no need for the petrol and matches just yet
I’m sure Bill Gates can find some spare change for them after all their good work
Gates is rich, but he is not a state. He has no authority, only influence. He has no power, he cannot raise an army.
I’m not a fan of Gates, but this obsession you have with him deflects attention away from the people who are truly in control. Sovereign governments.
Agreed, shit as his operating systems are even windows 10 and the GWX.exe virus haven’t done as much harm to the world as government intrusion against liberties.
Gates is a part of a much larger network of influence but his organisation is in a PPP with facets of the British Government – as with BBC as with so much else.
Gates is used as a person of influence or key opinion leader and so becomes a personal focus for faceless networks of fronted organisations.
Melinda seems like his handler?
The overall effect is in the disproportionate distribution of wealth being used as a similarly overwhelming leverage or corruption.
If Mark Carney can openly state that business not complying in Green New deal with go bankrupt (lose access to credit), then lockstepped corporates may be under threats or privy to sweeteners that are protected by non disclosure ‘agreements’.
‘Why buy tank divisions, weapons and fighter aircraft, when you can buy congressmen?
Where IS authority in our times?
Is it in our politicians, their handlers? The lobbies that they are representing? The World banking system – open and hidden?
The ability to choke back life support is a means of control. Who is upstream? And what or who can you not openly challenge without losing reputation and career.
Is there power IN the world?
or is it all fear driven control seeking power?
Not just the Welsh.
Happy thought!
The vaccines will do what they are intended to do. That’s the problem which is hurtling towards us.
“The vaccines will do what they are intended to do.”
And what is that Rowan, in your opinion? (Serious question).
Establish medical dependency for sickness management at ever tighter controls. Degrade immunity while fight the war against ‘whatever’. Degrade consciousness, and continue the experimental hacking of the human (and other) genetic coding for innovative advances that can be weaponised and marketised. Degrade ability to procreate.
The use of stealth can let fear work what the weapons do not need to actually effect. Covid is such an example. Using our minds against us such that we effectively destroy ourselves, and set up the imperatives for protection and control.
Vaccines keep virus fear fed and funded, while seeming to protect. But consider the actual ‘threat’ of covid (from the perspective of anyone who has researched outside the BBC & Guardian et al), and the stated admissions that the new cov vaccines are not expected to stop infection but only minimise or mitigate symptoms (?). If you are not hypnotised you will not follow the directives. Yet if you are they will seem to make sense.
Vaccines offer a trojan means to insert materials or agents that would otherwise not gain access, and this is necessarily true of incidental contaminants, and innately true of toxic adjuvants, preservatives, and possibly unexpected or unintended consequences.
If the vaccine drive is FOR public health and wants public trust – bring ALL OF IT into the open as transparent and accountable science. Take away immunity for adverse reactions, and make risks and benefits freely available.
What chance of that?
Note vaccines are not just a specific drive for a specific outcome, and need to be properly evaluated in terms of all outcomes of disease and death. Blocking one statistic to spill over into other datasets can be sold as progress, but it is another form of concealed toxic debt – within an uncorrected and corrupt system.
This is more right than most will realise, the intended condition to call the vacine a success is “prevents cold like symptoms in majority of those given it”, nothing about stopping transmission, nothing about reducing chance of serious symptoms (not common enough for a medical trial to reliably find enough in the control group to say a vacine has stopped them), nothing about reducing hospitalisations. The vaccine, if it meets the required conditions, will simply prevent mild symptoms in people who don’t need protecting. This vaccine isn’t a cure because covid has long been not a medical problem but a societal one the cure is to stop fearing the slly cough and seize back individual rights.
I think Wales is going to be a bit of a game changer. Johnson might regret trying to delegate responsibility for this mess to a bunch of glorified parish councillors.
You actually think Johnson is any better than than those “glorified parish councillors”? Johnson is totally responsible for the huge hole in which all of the UK now finds itself.
No, I actually think Johnson is more culpable, because of his academic background he should understand the importance of liberal governance and the common law. And I believe he is trying to escape responsibility by delegating lockdown rulings to the Principality and regions.
Johnson is Prime Minister. He is 100% culpable.
Johnson is a idiot joke chancer a liar utterly unfit for office and must be removed ASAP
I see him more as a crisis actor who has been long groomed for his role in the script.
https://www.getborisout.com
Dead link. Trouble is half the anti-Boris campaigns and votes of no-confidence are from the lockdown zealots’ side. Much as we all hate this government, we have to hate the ultra-zealots even more. I support anyone who is against this government AND intends to replace them with a herd immunity and civil lberties respecting administration.
I can’t believe that a young woman television interviews is asking a man in his 80s whether he finds his wife ‘difficult to bring under control’. Where are we; Gilead?!
His emotional, loyal reply made me quite tearful and I love their no nonsense, Yorkshire faces. The Yorkshire face arranges itself in a certain way because the muscles that display extreme reactions are never used. Have no doubt, though; those two people are very, very angry!
Love the look on the presenters face though when he had the temerity to call her out on it.
Yes, They don’t like it up em” do they?
My dad was told off by a bus driver for sitting next to my mum, his reply.
‘I have been sleeping in the same bed as this woman for over 50 years, I think I’ll know if she is sick! Nobody tells me where to sit, now drive the bus!’
I swear if anyone tried to separate us theyd be trouble.
Fantastic.
(Had it been me, the F-word might have made an appearance too.).
They are so bloody patronising, and that Jarvis.. aaargh!
Jarvis is a condescending bitch. So disrespectful to a proud and honest member of the public.
Virtue signalling parodies itself.
The tone of how the presenters introduce and then conduct that interview is infuriating. The presenters happy smiles and jovial mood, like this is a funny, amusing puff piece. Christ I despise them all. Well done to Maureen and her husband for portraying how people actually feel.
Yes. Just imagine how they would have treated someone like Rosa Parks 70 years ago.
I find it quite impossible to bring my wife under control.
But it’s so fun trying! I mean my wife btw!
“Take my wife …”.
Yes, as my teenage granddaughters would say: Inappropriate!
Interesting to compare Belgium and US. They are both mass testing like mad. Today on BBC 80000 new cases in the US got the headlines. But what about Belgium? Today 18000 cases. With a population of 11 million and US 30 times more population the Belgian figures would be equivalent to more than half million cases in the US today.
It is clear that the seasonal wave in Europe is much worse than in the US. Belgium had a much stricter spring lockdown than UK. After that the usual mask mandate and in the new wave, the phoney ridiculous almost puritanical restrictions of bars, restaurant and curfews but not an April type of lockdown. The test and track system has of course collapsed.
Even with a low estimate that the true infections are 5 times more than detected cases,85000 infected today. That is almost 1 % of the population infected in one day. MSM will shout about a raging infection and the government must act. To do what? Everything they have tried so far has dismally failed in all aspects incl.masks. Why? Because this is a new respiratory virus which by definition cannot be controlled. Start propping up your hospitals, tell symptomatic to stay home pay sick leave and end all SD, quarantine, travel restrictions. They are even more meaningless now.
I don’t think it is clear. How many cycles are being used? How are those to be tested being selected? How are the procedures being used to perform these tests being regulated and how is the accuracy of the labs being monitored?
Yes,of course an overestimation but there are true cases and they have 14times more C-19 in their ICUs than Sweden. There is an increase in true cases but the mass testing distort the picture and increase hysteria.
Exactly. I think Yeadon has explained it best. The pandemic in London is virtually over already.
No just in London.
The strangest think about it all is Cornwall has had over 2 million visitors since this started and it has the lowest cases and deaths . Not only that but people have come from every part of Britain and abroad so how do we account for it ? .One theory could be that the south west in fact had it first and then it spread to the south east.Maybe a flight from spain to newquay or a plane into exeter airport . The other option is there is only one main hospital in Truro and if it don’t for some reason get in there then it doesn’t really spread ,it would be interesting to find out if any patients were decanted from there to care homes . I believe it could be combination of the two as i know many people in the south west of cornwall and they all claim to have had bad flu in November ,December time .I’m surprised more medical people haven’t looked into it .
Same In Suffolk. It may be there was a different virus with identical symptoms doing the rounds prior to covid but Mr Occam may have something to say about that.
Spain and I think other countries claim to have identified Covid in sewage samples, in one case March 2019 but of course they may have been false positives. Nevertheless something that could be investgated but probably won’t be
The tests are meaningless, no matter the number of cycles used.
Our media have been very schtum about Belgium all along. At the heart of the EU, being led by a female PM (back in the Spring), early and strict lockdown – and yet had the worst death rate in the world, until overtaken by Peru. Didn’t fit the narrative!
And since October 1st we are led by a new government headed by the enttled son of one of the most long-serving ministers in several previous governments (De Croo), and a Minister of Health and Social Services (Mr Vandenbroucke) who was recycled from the refuse of former 90s-era governments. The MSM always praised him as being ‘highly intelligent’ because he studied at Cambridge and Oxford (economy/social sciences). As chairman of the socialist democrats back when the party was racked by corruption scandals in the early 90s (mainly payments by the Italian arms manufacturer Agusta in return for being awarded a large contract for the sale of helicopters to the Belgian state); Vandenbroucke’s main claim to fame is that he allegedly discovered this dirty money in a special safe at party HQ and set fire to it, as he ‘didn’t know what else to do’… the subsequent discussion in the press centered mainly on the issue that burning money is illegal under criminal law, and whether or not he should face trial for that (no mention of criminal stupidity, which in my opinion is far worse for someone who was set to become minister of FA…) !
So now he’s back, wearing a white underwear-style face nappy at every possible occasion and putting in alarmist, grave-faced (as far as you can tell under the circumstances) public appearances to argue for ‘stricter measures’ and all the kind of hypocritical, smarmy bs one can expect from a relic whose due date was long past already at the end of the previous century…
How patronising was that Sarah Jarvis?! So rude. What a poisonous, wooden faced witch she is. Mr and Mrs Eames should have been given more air time, and more respect during that interview.
I am not a violent person, but I wanted to slap that doctor for her condescension. The epitome of a Karen, she is. And she was lying about the severity of the disease, to boot.
No from a Karen who is sceptic with knobs on. Just stop this meme ( imported from the US where Karen is the soccer mom) to here to denigrate usually white working class woman as an insult. Dear middle class Emily! See tedious is it not?
It’s not working class women that it is denigrating; it’s rich and/or upper middle class women.
And I don’t care about names being expanded into memes – I’ve lived with being linked to close-minded ‘Auntie Em’ all my life. Water off a duck’s back.
Absolutely, what a patronising cow,
I am a fair bit younger than Mr Eames (71) but I remember the Asian flu of the mid and late 1950’s and the Hong
kong flu of 1968 plus Measles,Diphtheria and Typhoid outbreaks and as Mr Eames said: this virus will end the same as the previous ones and the ones that will come in the future with herd immunity.
How dare this patronising woman along with her many cohorts speak down to people like that.
The “you’d have to be 101 to remember something like this…” was just a bare faced lie. I’m glad he called her out on it.
Do you think the covid cultists believe their own spin?
I wonder if they have to act it out as IF they really believed it, because otherwise their face would break and the masking fall away.
Scott Gottlieb,the former FDA director is one of the worst in Project Fear. Now the “golden” article has been published behind Fauci/CDC Director’s enthusiasm for masks and solution to the pandemic. This is not a published RCT trial but a modelling based upon assumptions. I think we have heard of such models before.
https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1319794731505848321
“When people wear masks, it reduces likelihood of spreading Covid if they’re an asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic carrier. A new Nature study finds if 85% of Americans wore masks, we would save 95,000 people. Greater adherence to masking will reduce spread.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-1132-9
The published article is the typical modelling and observational study. I haven’t read it but I think this twitter thread from someone in the know taking down the article,is enough.
https://twitter.com/WesPegden/status/1319845424170237952
‘Mask up our seniors’ (one of the comments). Not this senior, pal!! MW
Masks in general settings don’t limit the transmission of influenza and neither does hand washing. Why are we now supposed to believe that these same measures will work for the flu like Covid-19.
The link below takes you to a scientific policy review in the CDC journal, Emerging Infectious Diseases from May 2020. The abstract says it all, but scrolling down to the “Discussion” section is also worthwhile. Note also that the review is based on the results of 14 randomised control trials. I’m still surprised that this document has not been taken down, so I have saved a copy.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
That Lancet study… I thought R, modelled as it is, automatically increases as each section of society reopens regardless of what’s actually happening in the real world, because it’s programmed into the model. So how is that proof?
A lot of scientists I’ve heard talking about the R number say it’s a completely useless measurement. That’s why governments are obsessed with it.
Computer models again. Correlation is not causation.
The similarities of how models are used to create fear with covid and climate change are not accidental.
By the way the latest junk modelling ‘explains’ how the genetic make up explains why populations in different countries have reacted to SARS2. The more neathanderthal genes the worse the reaction, supposed to explain why far eastern nations have generally done better, because they have hardly any of these genes. Load of crap of course.
Studying the relationship between genetics and Covid has nothing to do with “modelling”, at least, not the sort under discussion here. The paper The major genetic risk factor for severe COVID-19 is inherited from Neanderthalssays
Oh – along with compromised or dysfunctional immune system, severe co morbidities, and being over 80.
Genetic control is the basis of the 4th
reichIndustrial revolution.Why do you think they used the R rate and not deaths? One is a mathematical construct and the other is a measurable fact (although the atrribution of the death to Covid is not).
Lack of exercise is the biggest public health problem. The coronavirus is insignificant in comparison. The decision to close gyms is just another example of the irrational, irresponsible, incompetent approach to policy-making that has been adopted since March. It simply is not credible that policy-makers and their scientific and medical advisors are this incompetent. Since March they have consistently adopted measures to allegedly combat a virus that they must know are more harmful than the virus ever could be.
The numbers of fat or even obese nurses seems to be increasing on a higher exponential curve than the Covid ever did. Quite how they have the nerve to lecture anyone on healthy living is beyond me.
http://www.cureality.com/blog/post/2008/12/19/flat-tummy-or-why-your-dietitian-is-fat.html
Yes. Doctors such as Tim Noakes, Gary Fettke, Shawn Baker and Ken Berry who prescribe healthy diets (ie the opposite of government prescribed ones) to their patients end up facing lengthy court cases for daring to go against establishment dogma.
The likes of the WHO go on about hippocratic oaths forbidding them from pursuing herd immunity, that is nonesense. However hippocratic oaths definitely have something to say about docotrs needing to take good care of their own health before they can preach to others, obese medics are a violation of the oath.
So Tedros, a biologist, took the Hippocratic Oath? I doubt it! When I get a mo’ I’ll look up how many of that shower are doctors. SAGE has got very few ‘proper’ doctors on it. MW
Sorry, that picture on the home page. Surely people aren’t exercising in a gym wearing a gimp mask. Insane x 100. Personal trainers must know it’s dangerous.
There was a recent trend in wearing Bane masks for oxygen deprivation training. A bit like altitude training. Short bursts to increase blood flow.
Most people thought it was bad bro science.
Anaerobic rather than aerobic, yes ? I’ve heard of that re muscle groups, not the entire breathing system though
Our daughter who is struggling, having been put into Stalagluft 3 from today, says she’s keeping away from news and information because it’s so depressing. She has a tough job working in housing and she seems to be getting more demoralised and demotivated by the day, mostly working from home. Apparently food banks in Sheffield are closing because they can’t operate under the restrictions. God help them.
A couple of months ago she said she didn’t want to live in an echo chamber but that’s exactly where she is, unfortunately (FB, Instagram and MSM – it emerged she does watch the TV a bit). When we spoke to her last night, the first thing she told us was ‘so-and-so has got coronavirus’. When we challenged her, she admitted that it meant that they had got a positive test with no symptoms. None of our grandson’s friends are available to play with him over half term because their parents are keeping them away from other children – they are in the same class, ffs.
We urged her to keep herself informed. She doesn’t believe it can be about money and control: ‘how can they be making money out of this?’ (yikes!) so, yet again, we had to take her through what the Great Reset could mean, the great wealth transfer, this is not about a virus, etc. A week or so ago we sent her some short funnies and a link to the South Park video. She hasn’t watched them, presumably scared that even lightweight scepticism might burst her bubble.
Someone she knows got contacted via the T&T app. When we expressed less than sympathy she got defensive ‘They can’t work now why aren’t you sympathetic?’ and we had to explain that anyone who gets the app is asking for this to happen. She then agreed and told us that she wouldn’t be downloading it. Phew!
Meanwhile in other, better news: her ‘dandelion’ of a partner has managed to keep his yoga classes going, even in ‘Tier 3’ and has somehow wangled from the management an exemption for all of them not to wear masks during the class.
So not hopeless, but my God she was hard work. We think it’s much more about demoralisation than Covhysteria. We’re going to meet up with her and grandson in the country next week for a walk so we may be able to bolster up her courage a bit. MW
Suggestion, rather than the reset talk about the personal protection kit, and who is making money out of that. If she can absorb that then the next step up would be vaccinations and who makes money out of that.
When we learn, new stuff has to have a connection to existing stuff, a physical connection in the nervous system, represented by factual or emotional connection to pre-existing world view.
I wouldn’t bother discussing PPE profits either, I’d just focus on the harmlessness of the virus and how Sweden have done so well, plus point her towards some of Sunetra Gupta’s articles about what an idiot Hancock has been. Independently of educating her about the virus situation, make sure she is aware of the horrors the Chinese government is perpetrating against the Uighurs, and their social credit system, and absue of HongKong. Then at a later time she won’t be so suprised when you point to the risk that if we don’t properly defy coronapanic measures that Chinese system could be installed over here, even if accidentally*.
*why let her discount you as a conspiracy theorist when you can point to the same key facts and remedial individual actions by pointing out chaos and cockups as a cause
Honestly, we’ve done all that and she’s reasonably politically astute. She doesn’t think we’re conspiracy theorists either. It’s just that she wants to put her fingers in her ears and go ‘la-la-la’ until it all goes away. We’re just trying to get her to be a bit more clear-sighted about what’s at stake. She has a son and a step-daughter after all. MW
Thanks, Rosie. In fact we explained in some detail how the money is being made including PPE vaccines, testing, fire-sale of businesses,etc. The problem is that whenever we talk to her, she gets stronger and seems to get it but then she retreats to her echo-chamber and next time we talk it’s like starting from scratch. We’ll keep trying! MW
Why is Doomer-in-chief Ferguson being given air time again?
Has he been waving his magic juju stick at somebody?
Has he come on to say that his models are projections based on a number of estimates and assumptions and should therefore be treated with extreme caution when forming the basis of harmful social policy? No didn’t think so.
Sponsorship requirement probably.
Reportedly saying it will all become clearer in two weeks time. Where have I heard that before.
It’s because ‘two weeks’ is close enough to appear attainable but long enough away for you to forget the predication. It’s one of the oldest political tricks in the book. If you need to make it slighly more urgent you use ‘ten days’ instead.
Ferguson, Witty and vallance need to be barred from practicing and Johnson and Hancock need throwing out of office
Mouth of Sauron?
Report from Khanistan during Stage 2 (or something). Out to dinner at Ivy, Tower Bridge last night. Just as busy as last time with single-household tables containing strange single-household personnel. Masks on movement (except the JL two). However – all along the riverside were a whole series of ad hoc ‘parties’ & drinking picnics with twenty-somethings – mostly maskless sticking two fingers up to the mad Mufti and his plodforce, none of whom were in attendance. The young have just nudged up a notch in my estimation.
The young are having the best times of their life stolen from them by our government.
Only if they obey it. As always.
Excellent news. I have not been to the Emirate of London for some time, since my club announced masks would now have to be worn throughout the premises. They don’t even allow newpapers in the club library now, as they could, apparently, spread the dreaded Covids. I’m tempted next time I’m up to just hang out with some youngsters (though at nearly 50 that might result in me appearing a bit like Joe Biden).
I’m told by Lieutenant-Colonel Tobias Ellwood of the 77th Brigade (the propaganda arm of the British Army that is waging psychological warfare against the British people) that I will need to be vaccinated before I can return to normal life
Fixed it for him.
Originally The Vaccine was supposedly going to be the end of this but actually I suspect it will be the beginning of something else worse.
Anybody who uses any establishment that implements anti-social distancing or masking rules is implicitly validating those rules (even if you say you are exempt from masks) and helping to cement them in place, whether that place be a cafe or gym or public transport or whatever.
How do you get food?
Refuse to wear a mask or shop on line
I refuse to wear a mask, but calchas said “even if you say you are exempt from masks”.
Shopping online doesn’t feel like the ideal solution if my concern is for local independent businesses. When the distancing or mask diktats are lifted, there’ll hardly be any point if online shopping is the only remaining option and all the restaurants/clubs/pubs have gone under.
LOL good point – I was thinking more optional venues, pubs and restaurants, the hairdressers etc.
Online shopping plays straight into their hands – especially as you can’t use cash.
Best to go maskless in defiance – while there’s somewhere to go!
100% agree. Never go out any more!
Agree for the simple reason that the only way out of this madness is total economic collapse. So I’ve reduced my consumption to the bear minimum – not a problem given how horrible it is to a restaurant, pub or shop.
If everyone did the same, the whole thing would end quite quickly.
I was in Liverpool the other day, walking along the Mersey, and I spotted a small card attached to a lifebuoy by the water’s edge.
The message on it was simple:
“Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you will
find. Knock, and it will be opened for you.
For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks
finds. To him who knocks it will be opened.”
Whether you’re religious, spiritual or not, I hope that this can be a message of hope and determination for all of you.
As my little daughter has started saying recently:
“When there’s a will, there’s a way.”
Breaking news from Gulag Wales – My wife’s found some bubble wrap. Celebrations!
Try not to pop it all, it is too satisfying
Well done!!
‘Choose your lucky number
That much money could drag you under’
Pulp
I’ve chosen my lucky number and its number 9
The mass detention without trial in Wales ends on 9th November
Meanwhile at the eastern end of the Mediterranean Cyprus has introduced new draconian rules. A curfew and masks to be worn outside. These rules also end on 9th November
How could two governments that are so far apart geographically come up with the same date for the end of the virus?
Perhaps for the first time they are actually following science
For those of you who have not listened I recommend the Delingpole/Yeadon podcast. It runs for two hours. Take the time to listen. Yeadon demolishes the covid bollocks with scientific fact. If you do nothing else this weekend listen to it
For example. There has never been a second wave of this type of virus. I’ll repeat that, the second wave is a myth. There could never be a second wave. Vallance knows that. The dictator knows that. It’s not a guess, it’s not a prediction. It is a scientific fact
Yeadon describes in detail the Gompertz curve of the first wave. He also describes how a virus like this sometimes has a secondary ripple, which is what we are seeing now
He describes the trajectory of the second ripple like a Tiger Moth trundling down the runway and barely missing the treetops at the end of the runway
The dictator and his scientists know all of this. This second ripple comprises mainly of false positive PCR tests and will soon peter out
Expect an announcement in 3 to 5 days that the numbers are declining as a result of the new measures,
So what are they up to?
They are constructing a fraudulent narrative and it runs like this
We acted quickly during the first wave and saved many lives
Because of reckless stupid people not obeying our rules the second wave arrived
We predicted the arrival of the second wave if people didn’t behave
We acted decisively to prevent the second wave and it worked
Through our actions we beat the virus
We saved you and we saved your Christmas
It is little more than a criminal conspiracy that has needlessly wasted countless lives, and destroyed the wealth of a nation
In their rush to lie and lie again they have sown the seeds of their own destruction
The adherents of the cult may swallow it, but one day if there is such a thing as justice they will stand in the dock and have to answer for their crimes
9th November happens to be my birthday and also the date the Berlin Wall came down.
Other significant 9th November events in German history:
1918, following the collapse of Germany in World War I, the Weimar Republic of Germany is proclaimed.
1925, German NSDAP (Nazi party) forms Schutzstaffel (SS)
1938, Kristallnacht begins: pogrom against Jews in Germany and Austria – first large-scale physical act of anti-Jewish violence, begins
Quite a date.
In British English rather than American, the 9th of November is 9/11. How significant is that? – not a lot.
You missed out the best bit .He called Vallance a liar and at the end called on him to sue him .
My optimism is rising. If Yeadon is right, the pandemic is already over on London and much of the South and soon will be elsewhere. While the government can produce a casedemic through mega-testing and can lie about pressure on ICUs, they can’t magically produce deaths to fit the pandemic narrative in the absence of excess respiratory deaths.
Sceptical pressure will grow. Eventually the dam will burst.
Agree 100%
they can’t magically produce deaths to fit the pandemic narrative – they have been and can put covid on death certificates to keep it going
Sage is the fundamental problem according to Yeadon. It won’t end until Sage says it has. He breaks down Vallance whom he knows well into shreds
Oh but they can. That’s the beauty of PCR testing. We have traces of all sorts of viruses in our bodies. There will always be positive tests on which to pin deaths.
They don’t need an excess of respiratory deaths as we saw at the beginning of the year any deaths can be labled covid. Young person dies of sudden heart attack, covid, hospital consultant dies of aortic dissection, covid, etc etc.
The withdraw of medical care, the media induced mental illness and the ever tightening lockdown may have caused many of the excess deaths we saw earlier in the year. I would not be surprised to see excess deaths spiral again this time.
But if deaths do remain around average for the time of year, and all anyone is ever dying of is covid, even the zombies will start to become suspicious surely?
So far as the reality and the narrative have diverged the zombies seem to have only become more committed. When I take my son to school I see more people wearing masks outside even in the rain then ever before. People I know who were almost on the edge of reason a few months ago now think I am an evil killer for not wearing a mask. I am selfish for preventing the school from forcing my child to wear a mask.
I am not religious, I am an engineer, essentially a man of science but I cant help feel that the best way to describe these people is that they are under some sort of daemonic possession. Zombies are less dangerous.
Still I guess we can hope so.
In my opinion it’s mass hysteria on a global scale. We haven’t seen anything like this in our lifetimes. The reaction to Princess Diana’s death was probably the nearest equivalent, but that was thousands of times smaller in comparison.
It’s certainly mass delusion, shading into mass hysteria. Because masks are the most visible reminders of the current situation, some people are developing a monomania which leads them to believe that covid would disappear if everyone wore masks, and conversely every case which appears is the fault of the non-wearers.
It isn’t enough to invoke the label hysteria as if that answers anything.
Triggering deeper aspects of our collective psyche uncovers archetypal patterning or structuring within our consciousness. While what we took to be our world or ‘consciousness’ disintegrates.
With Diana – normality or continuity resumed after a few days or weeks.
The phrase, ‘the Beast rises from the Deep’, suggests to me the revealing of what lies beneath, the exposing and undoing of an unconsciousness to which we have been subconsciously identified in.
The rationalisations are NOT Reason as sanity, but the ingenious use of the mind in cover story seeking ‘narrative continuity’.
They are a medieval flagellant cult:
The Return of the Flagellants – AIER
You’d think.
The zombies are presently trying to argue that:
“yes I know hospitals are below the usual ICU usage, but they’re doing less surgery. ”
Would like to see some good stats to properly demolish their suggestions here
Not true. Yeadon fully accepts there was a pandemic in Spring. The vast majority of the huge number of excess deaths were from Covid19. But the pandemic is now largely over. There is not much happening on the respiratory disease front, so there is little scope for mislabelling deaths.
Half of europe saw no excess deaths in spring. What are you looking at that conveniences you that “The vast majority of the huge number of excess deaths were from Covid19.” ?
Quite. ‘Huge number of excess deaths’ compared to what, exactly ?
It will grow it is inevitable.
The sewage story from yesterday looks set to replace the failed PCR narrative. Regional lockdowns based on what theu find at the sewage works.
Keep in mind why they are doing this random lockdown arbitrary theatre, to drag on until vaccines and ids. Be ready for their narrative to shift and catch the fight back off guard, to undermine people’s realisations of what has happened. It would be folly for the government side to let the matter rest at one stage they must keep heads spinning.
On our sude with that as it has been from the very start, ever mearsure they bring in produces newer better reasins to see their lies.
“Regional lockdowns based on what they find at the sewage works.”
One place I lived had a sewage works down the lane. What you mostly found there was massive crops of tomatos and cannabis
Hospital admissions are doubling in London, the South East and the South West at the same rate as every other region. All consistently with a doubling of 14 days. I am struggling to see any evidence of the immunity Yeadon is so fond of.
Are they admitted to hospital with Covid or just being tested when they get there with a dodgy test.
The data is the total count of those admitted with a positive test and those who test positive within 24 hours of admission. In Wales the data is the count of those who test positive and those suspected of being positive based on clinical signs.
Is it inane comments like this that earned your OBE, for “services to the corona”?
https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/18785053.berkshire-recipients-queens-birthday-honours-award-full-list/
Immunity exists to almost every virus known to medicine. Shame it isn’t understood by mathematical modellers at Imperial.
Why is an observation “inane -lacking sense or meaning; silly”. It is simply the data. One can debate the reasons for the doubling of patients with a positive COVID19 test across the NHS regions, and whether immunity may blunt this doubling. But I can’t see why the data is inane. I would LIKE there to be huge cross-reactive immunity too, but I am not seeing the evidence in the data.
So what do you suppose a much longer doubling time of [insert scary metric of choice] compared to March (~3 days) suggests?
Could it possibly be that thing – immunity – indicating that the remaining susceptible population is rather smaller than in March? It does rather speak against the bizarre hypothesis that this particular virus, unlike all other coronaviruses, and indeed unlike almost every virus known to man, lacks the capacity to induce immunity?
I mean, c’mon, you work in clinical research. While you clearly have a very limited understanding of medicine I don’t doubt your ability to understand data. That being the case, you will know that it’s far more robust to look at an “all cause” event rather than one further categorised by some other variable, be it the opinion of an investigator or cherry picking the one (possibly false) positive out of multiple PCR tests performed on the same patient.
So what is happening to all-cause hospital admissions? You know, the reason we agreed to “flatten the curve” for three weeks. Are they doubling? Of course not. If they were I would expect to see every hospital in full-on panic mode (depending on the duration of the admission, of course).
Deaths will follow admissions and All-cause mortality will follow deaths. Deaths in a week’s time are very predictable from admissions with positive COVID19 test.
The longer doubling time than seen previously is due to continued contact restrictions in the general population other than schools.
Immunity would manifest in regions that had high previous exposure (London) growing slower (or not at all) compared with regions that did not (e.g., South West). That is not seen in the data. All-cause admissions data, like testing is confounded by policy decisions. Hospital seeking behaviour based on symptoms such as hypoxia is much less confounded, which is why I follow them.
Hospital-seeking behaviour based on symptoms is less confounded? I suppose that is why the saw a huge increase in people dying at home of cardiovascular causes, I suppose. No confounding at all.
There really are people so invested in this that they have to keep saying 2+2=5, in the face of all the evidence that this is of low lethality, the absence of evidence for the ridiculous assertion that exposure does not generate immunity, and the lack of a “second wave” that currently threatens to overwhelm the health system.
It’d be hilarious if it weren’t so tragic. You aren’t doing science, because you can’t bear to admit to yourself that you were wrong.
Ventilations are following admissions and deaths will follow too. As I said, there is evidence of an epidemic of hypoxia with a current doubling time consistent across regions. If immunity was strong in London (and lasting) then one would surely predict that London would be an outlier given the severity in the first wave? One can test that assertion in multiple data streams.
The increase in total numbers dying at home was met by a corresponding decrease in the numbers dying in hospitals.
As for the science – I have not asserted anything. But cross-reactive immunity should have testable hypotheses. As should the notion of contact restriction. The data shows an impressive change in direction of hospital admissions and subsequent deaths when schools returned, with little separation across the regions. Immunity will flatten the rate of change eventually (if sufficiently long-lasting), but the effects are of course confounded by continuous policy changes.
Again you show your theoretician’s lamentable ignorance of the medical science: cross-reactive immunity is what is there prior to covid-19 coming on the scene. We don’t know, but it would be a reasonable guess that this is roughly similar across regions and thus should not much affect the doubling time of [scary metric of choice] during an epidemic.
Acquired immunity on the other hand, what you actually meant to say, is due to covid exposure. This might well vary from one region to another simply because it has been around in the human population for a far shorter time than the other endemic coronaviruses, and the proportion of people exposed (and thus developing immunity) in different regions will still be very different. But you could still, given that we are climbing up the “second ripple” curve from extremely low summer numbers see doubling times that are initially very similar. Any small and limited outbreak still has a relatively large number of susceptible people compared to infectious people at the early stage, whether the absolute proportion of susceptible people is 70% or 30%. The outbreaks become self-limiting because as the number of infectious persons grows, that ratio of susceptible to infectious persons dominates the transmission dynamics. The low doubling time compared to March tells us that there is already widespread immunity, regardless of its source, and across regions. But I don’t think the noisy data (inevitable since we are talking about low numbers of events right now) lets us draw much conclusion about the variability of immunity across regions. It might do were the numbers larger.
Give me one testable hypothesis for implications of widespread cross-immunity. Be it pre-existing or otherwise. If a large fraction of the population do not experience the infection at all, so be it. They would not figure in any estimation of the epidemic, nor feature in hospital admissions, and can carry on their lives as per normal – assuming they never transmit the virus. There is no evidence so far of self-limiting behaviour. A prospective T cell cross reactivity trial would help resolve such a hypothesis. I’m surprised it hasn’t happened yet. Sadly in a population of 66M, even 30% wholly susceptible is still a large number.
And I agree we are climbing from low levels, but the rate of climb depressingly shows no regional variation, despite the noise. It also coincides with a return to school, despite early assertions that children either do not become infected or do not spread the infection. ONS data suggests they do become infected, but do not show symptoms and certainly do not head for hospital (unlike influenza, where they are a disproportionate burden on healthcare).
“There is no evidence so far of self-limiting behaviour.”
There is, and you have provided it, in the form of the far lower doubling time for hospital admissions compared to March! This is direct evidence of the slower growth in N of new infections which is predicted by a higher prevalence of immunity, regardless of whether this arises from exposure to covid-19 or other endemic cornoaviruses. It also indirectly shows that there is either more widespread cross-immunity than the 0% that SAGE purports, or there has been far more widespread asymptomatic/mildly symptomatic infection than we know.
At this point, we might well concede that we want to reduce the pressure on the NHS over the winter. As a long-term detractor of your Imperial buddy Professor “we’re all doomed, again”, Ferguson, I will grant that even his infamous “Report 9” never said to do what we are currently doing indefinitely, but to switch the lockdown on and off in response to the likely pressure on hospitals (which I think the model was of some use for).
Here are some testable predictions for you. Feel free to come back next year and compare to the doomsday scenario:
1) There will be further “positives”, symptomatic infections, and deaths this winter, but the deaths will be nothing on the scale of March/April 2020.
2) All-cause mortality between now and April 2021 will be no more than 5% higher than the same period during the last 5 years.
3) Estimates of the IFR will continue to fall and will nadir at below 0.2%.
4) The CFR based on hospital admission will fall to below 3%
5) There will be no third wave, the epidemic will be entirely over by next summer, but we will still continue to see infections and deaths from/with covid because we are specifically looking for them.
6) Community immunity will relegate covid to just another of the dozens of background respiratory infections, essentially it will be a competing risk for proximal cause of death in end-of-lifers (in which endemic coronaviruses already have a known IFR of around 6%), and a kiddies’ sniffle.
Slope of the curve is the product of number of contacts and proportion who can catch it. Slowing that rate can be achieved by changing either. Only a slowing when contacts remain constant would indicate evidence of immunity. We’ve never had a period of constant contacts, but we did have a BIG change at the beginning of September, which was accompanied by a universal increase in hospital admissions and following deaths.
I think the best one can hope for, is that when schools are closed for holidays, any additional restrictions may have a disproportionate effect on transmission. Because I can’t see them having a huge effect at the moment, and certainly not enough to contain the rise in hospital admissions and likely pressure on resources.
As for the testable hypotheses
1) Completely agree
2) I’ll come back with those – I monitor All cause mortality weekly. Up to 10 days ago we have been running 5% higher than the past 10 year mean and just above the 10-year maximum (ONS only report 5 years but have more data on their website). I expect a gradual rise above this, but nothing like as bad as April. I predicted 30k excess deaths.
3) I don’t honestly believe we’ll ever really know the IFR – I’ve always maintained that we don’t know the denominator and still subscribe to that view. I am sure that asymptomatic infections play a role. I don’t automatically jump to the view that they play a huge role (yet).
4) The CFR is falling already thanks to better management. ICNARC have some very positive data. When antivirals become widespread I expect even greater falls. Remdesivir is not that drug, but others will follow.
5) We shall see – I would prefer to see a policy with clear communication of the likely consequences of any decision (good and bad). I don’t really see any good choices and I see a lot of cloudy but strongly held presumptions either way – hence my skepticism and presence here.
6) One day, I completely agree. It will be the fifth endemic seasonal coronavirus. We will establish some degree of protection (vaccine or past-infection experience), with protection/treatment for those most at risk, and this will lower the severity of infection and reduce the burden on healthcare. I expect immunity to wane and vaccination to be annual and rolled out with influenza.
How we get there is the debate. And I like scientific debate.
Given the lack of dangerous consequences in the newborn and young, I am unclear why you think vaccination will need to be annual? Eventually won’t the immunity conferred by successive bouts of infection protect an ever aging majority of the population, until most will have immunity? Granted this might take some time and boosting by vaccination of the elderly and infirm might help over the next 25 years or so (if such a vaccine weren’t worse than the disease) ; but if it’s not a maimer like measles or polio, what’s the problem with allowing reactive immunity to be the primary and favoured solution? And let’s not pray in aid ‘long covid’ . Much more attention needs to be paid to the proper treatment of post viral auto immune conditions, but covid is only one trigger among many of these, it’s not a unique problem.
Annual for the elderly is my expectation due to waning levels of natural and probably Vaccine-induced antibodies. This has been noted with other coronaviruses where reinfection occurs about every two years. More frequent in children. This means children will maintain some level of immunity from a young age, which they do not have for influenza.
How long any vaccine protection lasts (if any) is not yet known. We have the highest flu vaccine take up of anywhere. Adding another annual vaccine would make sense. If there is no vaccine, we will have antibodies, two have shown promise in treatment already, they’ll almost certainly be protective too.
Don’t start me on long Covid. I’m still suffering since April. The morbidity of this infection is poorly studied so far.
Thank you for confirming my supposition that repeated CV19 infection from a young age will become the norm and prevent serious consequences later in life. I still do not follow the argument for annual CV19 vaccination, unless you are talking solely for an annually reducing cohort of those above 60-65 now until they die around 85. Hence my example of a period of say 25 years. And if the vaccine, as I imagine, turns out to be only marginally better than the disease for that elderly group, why vaccinate, why not rely on better treatment regimens, including, as you suggest, Iv antibody plasma ? Or is mass vaccination of that age group cheaper than Iv plasma for a smaller number of actual cases? (And, let’s face it, we need to face up to allowing a peaceful death to the 25% with dementia for whom a CV19 death is a blessed relief for both them and their relatives?)
The reason the morbidity of this auto immune condition is poorly studied has a lot to do with the arrogance of the medical profession, who have ignored and belittled sufferers for years because it has been routinely perceived as women whining about an imaginary psychological condition. Like period pain, endometriosis, and menopausal symptoms. Roll on a proper acknowledgement of its debilitating and sometimes life altering effects, and real investigation of how to treat it.
Compare and contrast:
‘…….we did have a BIG change at the beginning of September, which was accompanied by a universal increase in hospital admissions and following deaths.’
with:
‘In September 2020, there were 39,827 deaths registered in England, 2,568 deaths more than the five-year average (2015 to 2019) for September; in Wales, there were 2,610 deaths registered, 135 deaths more than the five-year average for September.
The leading cause of death in September 2020 was dementia and Alzheimer’s disease in both England (accounting for 11.2% of all deaths) and in Wales (11.1% of all deaths).
The coronavirus (COVID-19) did not feature in the top ten leading causes of death for deaths registered in September 2020, in England or Wales; in England, COVID-19 was the 19th most common cause of death and in Wales COVID-19 was the 24th most common cause of death.’
‘Of the 39,827 deaths registered in September 2020 in England, 1.7% (1.4% in August) (690 deaths) involved the coronavirus (COVID-19). In Wales, 1.3% (2.2% in August) of the 2,610 deaths registered in September involved COVID-19 (35 deaths).’
ONS Monthly Mortality Analysis
Is this evidence of a parallel universe?
Plus I seem to remember all cause mortality was at an all time low for many weeks
Deaths will follow admissions, of that be in no doubt. All-cause mortality changes lag deaths, I expect to see evidence of an increase in three weeks time. Which corresponds to deaths next week due to the lag in reporting official death statistics by ONS.
Overall all cause mortality has been plumb normal on a weekly basis since May.
It is just no good to keep on saying that it is all going to get a lot worse in the future.
Overall all cause mortality has been showing that it will not for some time now.
Yes, admissions will go up and, with them, deaths. They always do at this time of the year.
But covid deaths have been 1.4% and 1.7% of deaths for the last two months despite massive overcounting of deaths ’caused’ by covid 19 and overall all cause deaths normal.
‘I expect to see evidence……’ is not a good basis for defending a point of view.
You’re assuming that every hospital admssion who tests positive for covid is going to die, which is nonsense.
Not at all. But there is a very strong correlation between the two. For low admissions, deaths in 7 days time are roughly today’s admissions divided by 7. For higher admissions the relationship is a little more complicated.
The rate of rise in the admissions is significantly less than in March. It’s extremely clear evidence. I work in Critical Care, our admissions with covid picked up in September and have dropped right off now. I work in a so called hotspot. I expect them to rumble on all winter, with a rise again December as happens with influenza. It’s nearly over. Face facts
Our current number of ITU patients with confirmed covid19 is 0.002% of our catchment population. Around 25-30% of our capacity. This is in line with a normal winter with regard to general viral pneumonia.
Clear evidence of herd immunity from difference in rate of rise
No, an equal interpretation is “Clear evidence of working from home and closing pubs early from difference in rate of rise”. Or even, shudder, “Clear evidence of masks working from difference in rate of rise”. That the rate of rise is slower is not in debate. The reasons for the difference are the scientific question. Immunity would predict that areas that had the highest levels in the first wave (London) would have a slower rate of increase than areas that had lower rates. Sadly that is not the case.
“Immunity would predict that areas that had the highest levels in the first wave (London) would have a slower rate of increase than areas that had lower rates.”
You missed at least 1 alternative hypothesis here: The North has higher cross-reactive immunity. Which is why it saw fewer first-wave cases but is showing the same rate of increase as London now (because total immunity is now similar).
Perhaps, but the alternative is that the North was several weeks behind London, so had higher levels when restrictions were lifted and transmission increased, and has not recovered since. A difference in absolute numbers manifests as a lag time in exponential growth and decline.
‘….had higher levels….’
What is the evidence you are relying on for that statement?
A plot of hospital admission rates for COVID19 positive patients by region shows much higher levels in the North.
Based on which PCR tests using what cycle threshold?
Without referencing the chart, and its base data, you have no credibility.
I have not seen higher cross reactive immunity in the North ever suggested elsewhere. What might cause it?
Whippets and flat caps work better than masks?
This is a much more plausible hypothesis than any suggestion of lockdowns working!!
I don’t believe it’s the case. I’m trying to illustrate Dr Austin OBE’s unscientific approach. All your hypotheses should be mutually exclusive and include all possibilities.
That the North has higher baseline cross-reactive immunity is a possibility so needs to be considered. I don’t think it’s likely.
Plus how stable is the London population. Don’t people move in and out any more?
That was exactly my reaction too. In other words, you have a greater number of susceptibles moving in, instead of a stable number of susceptible newborns, but the effect is similar.
‘Immunity would predict that areas that had the highest levels in the first wave (London) would have a slower rate of increase than areas that had lower rates. Sadly that is not the case.’
What is the evidence you are relying on for that statement?
I linked to a plot of numbers of admissions that are consistently doubling across all nhs regions. London is sadly no exception. It declined faster, one might hope due to some effect of immunity, but when unlocked looks the same as all others.
Admissions for what, exactly?
Hospital admissions always increase at this time of year!
These points are not credible.
Sadly you are a case!
How does that differ from hospital admission levels normally seen ramping up across autumn? Especially as admissions (total) are rising up from being greatly reduced in summer when almost all normal surgery was cancelled, now only most is cancelled and some can’t wait, hence a rise in admissions from people needing treatment for things they should have had fixed in spring. Since May hospitals even in hotspots have had a greater proportion of “covid patients” be people in for other reasons who just happened to have a +ve test than people suffering hospital worthy symptoms from the virus.
It’s a fair question, and I am not aware of public domain data showing total hospital admissions to compare. The rise in ventilated patients does however follow the rise in COVID19 positive patients, which offers some corroboration that the burden of COVID19 disease has been climbing since September. September is too early for normal flu season and other respiratory infections to show. I don’t expect a influenza to play much role based on the experience of Southern Hemisphere countries. But we could be doubly unlucky I guess!
Dr yeadon needs to write to citizen Khan and tell him so Mayor’s office City Hall London SE1 2AA
The presenters are unbelievably condescending towards that couple. Most people watching that clip will be appalled. Big mistake by the establishment to talk to them like that.
I’ve always found gyms to be soulless places, too much machinery involved in what should be a liberating experience (exercise). Giev a me a forest run any day.
But I am absolutely 1 million % behind these titans. Who would have thought they’d be the first line of defence.
I just hope they are not too absorbed in the narrative and see its bigger than them. That this is an assault on everyone
https://youtu.be/GyDl2i_Mbdw
Dr Kevin Corbett. Posted before I’m sure. In interview with Davud Scott. Dr Corbett is one of the many great people we have been lucky enough to encounter as a result of the oppression and attack by our our givernment upon us.
Dr Corbett talks about how and when he first realised something was wrong with the official line, spoiler – from the very beginning. He talks about the contaigon hysteria that is prevalent across all parts of society especially including the professional who damn well ought to know better. He gives his founded reasons for suggesting the NHS had had a Nazification applied to it.
Dr Kevin Corbett speaks so well, with so much compassion and understanding he is not to be missed. It’s an hour long the pay off is a wonderfully solid encourahing message that the evils doing this will get theres – politicians and scientists alike.
Thoroughly recommend a listen.
Making a leaflet. Here’s the medium-length version:
Open letter from medical doctors and health professionals to all Belgian authorities and all Belgian media. [extracts/paraphrase]
September 5th 2020
We, doctors and health professionals, wish to express our serious concern. The course of covid-19 followed the course of a normal wave of infection similar to a flu season. As every year, we see a mix of flu viruses following the curve: first the rhinoviruses, then the influenza A and B viruses, followed by the coronaviruses. There is nothing different from what we normally see.
The non-specific PCR test produces many false positives. The test does not measure how many viruses are present in the sample. A real viral infection means a massive presence of viruses, the so-called virus load. If someone tests positive, this does not mean that that person is actually clinically infected, is ill or is going to become ill.
For thousands of years, the human body has been exposed daily to moisture and droplets containing infectious microorganisms (viruses, bacteria and fungi). The penetration of these microorganisms is prevented by the immune system. A strong immune system relies on normal daily exposure to these microbial influences.
Social isolation and economic damage led to an increase in depression, anxiety, suicides, intra-family violence and child abuse. Fear, persistent stress and loneliness induced by social distancing weaken the immune system and general health.
Mortality turned out to be many times lower than expected and close to that of a normal seasonal flu (0.1-0.5%). The vast majority of infected persons (>98%) did not or hardly became ill or recovered spontaneously.
From the distressing media images of ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome) where people were suffocating and given artificial respiration in agony, we now know that this was caused by an exaggerated immune response with intravascular coagulation in the pulmonary blood vessels which we can now treat with a well-established protocol.
Spreading occurs by drip infection (only for patients who cough or sneeze) and aerosols in closed, unventilated rooms. Contamination is therefore not possible in the open air.
Wearing a mask has side effects. Every day we now see patients complaining of headaches, sinus problems, respiratory problems and hyperventilation due to wearing masks. Some experts even warn of an increased transmission of the virus and brain damage to children.
Close examination of the figures shows that there is not a second wave of corona – the peak is over.
Survey studies on influenza vaccinations show that in 10 years we have only succeeded three times in developing a vaccine with an efficiency rate of more than 50%. Vaccinating our elderly appears to be inefficient. Over 75 years of age, the efficacy is almost non-existent. An untested vaccine, which is implemented by emergency procedure and for which the manufacturers have already obtained legal immunity from possible harm, raises serious questions. We do not wish to use our patients as guinea pigs.
Covid-19 is not a killervirus, but a well treatable condition with a mortality rate comparable to the seasonal flu. There is no state of emergency. As doctors and health professionals we demand an immediate end to all measures.
https://docs4opendebate.be/en/
See also
Margareta Griesz Brisson https://www.bitchute.com/video/Blzj0nJFEnpZ/
Here’s an even shorter version for people to print out and use if they wish:
Open letter from medical doctors and health professionals to all Belgian authorities and all Belgian media. [extracts/paraphrase] September 5th 2020
We, doctors and health professionals, wish to express our serious concern. The course of covid-19 followed the course of a normal wave of infection similar to a flu season. There is nothing different from what we normally see. Close examination of the figures shows that there is not a second wave of corona.
The non-specific PCR test produces many false positives. The test does not measure how many viruses are present in the sample. A real viral infection means a massive presence of viruses, the so-called virus load. If someone tests positive, this does not mean that that person is actually clinically infected, is ill or is going to become ill.
Social isolation and economic damage lead to an increase in depression, anxiety, suicides, intra-family violence and child abuse. Fear, persistent stress and loneliness induced by social distancing weaken the immune system and general health.
Spreading occurs by drip infection (only for patients who cough or sneeze) and aerosols in closed, unventilated rooms. Contamination is therefore not possible in the open air.
Wearing a mask has side effects. Every day we now see patients complaining of headaches, sinus problems, respiratory problems and hyperventilation due to wearing masks. Some experts even warn of an increased transmission of the virus and brain damage to children.
Covid-19 is not a killervirus, but a well treatable condition with a mortality rate comparable to the seasonal flu. There is no state of emergency. As doctors and health professionals we demand an immediate end to all measures.
https://docs4opendebate.be/en/
See also
Margareta Griesz Brisson https://www.bitchute.com/video/Blzj0nJFEnpZ/
As the Belgian authorities to whom the letter was originally addressed didn’t give a toss, don’t get your hopes up for others to take any of the suggestions on board…
I just watched the interview with Maureen & Her Husband Mike & I have to say, that Sarah Jarvis is a condescending cow, she even shook her head at what Mike said.
Then she trotted out the “we are not asking everyone to stay indoors”…WTF???? They are telling everyone to stay indoors!!!
Then she told him that he hadn’t lived through 6 pandemics, unless he was 103!!!
What a horrible cow she is, towing the propaganda line & thinking that she knows best because she is a doctor.
Maureen & Mike spoke perfect sense, but because that goes against the fear mongering propaganda, it means that they are treated with contempt by the arseholes who buy into all this shit.
I was also livid when that boot doctor said, “you say that you had coronavirus, but you were maybe not tested”
The cheeky, condescending boot.
Add her to the list of collaborators
I couldn’t believe how patronising she was. She was vile.
She is always vile, I seem to remember the same smirking condescension when the poor parents of young Charlie Guard were trying to get their son to the US.
And the blatant lies she said about we’ve never had a virus as bad as this one! She’s forgotten 2018 flu, >50,000 deaths 1968 flu 100,000. She’s an idiot.
mike hadnt forgotten and he quoted100000 for 1968.
i have been amazed how many incompetent doctors have become tv doctors . and they are all such condescending line toeing arses .
My thoughts exactly.
Yet anyone who claims to have had covid, test or no test, is faithfully added to the Long Covid list when they start to feel a bit tired.
You evidently know nothing about post viral auto immune reactions.
Are you just being contentious?
Sorry? Don’t know what you’re getting at.
If you think I’m denying the existence of serious post viral illness you couldn’t be more wrong. But I think the overhyping of Long Covid does all post viral illness a disservice and is rude to people who have suffered for years and been told it’s just “yuppie flu” or all in their head. We’ve never had “Long Flu” or “Long Norovirus” named before – why not? Because no one cared. Is Long Covid the only important or “real” post viral disease? Because that’s what the media are trying to tell us.
If you say ‘ anyone who claims to have long covid …is added to the Long Covid list when they start to feel a bit tired’ one could be forgiven for thinking you were a denier of the reality of the consequences of a cytokine storm.
The media are not, so far as I’ve observed, suggesting it’s the only real post viral disease. And I have no idea why you think drawing attention to it and studying it, as Spector is, is in any way ‘over hyping’ it.
Are you Matt Wankcock by any chance?
They soon got them off the air when Mike spoke up and mentioned Herd Immunity
Ofcom have expressly stated that TV presenters should quickly intervene if govt policy is undermined. Not saying it is right but they are the rules.
“Let’s get a couple of old people on, it’ll be a lighthearted and feelgood affair because old people are sweet and funny.”
“Great – what’s the topic?”
“The false imprisonment of millions, hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths and the complete destruction of democracy and our economy.”
Let’s take the p*ss out of an old biddy with a Barnsley accent.
They picked the wrong old biddy!
One of the many reasons I stopped listening to Jeremy Vine…
It is my belief that the Welsh Government has implemented its fire-break policy not only to reset the way that the virus is circulating, but in order to reset the way that the people of Wales behave.
Yes. I agree with your thought. You can feel the evil SPI-B have wargamed the behavioural change and the fire break excuse a product of that planning. They will extend the fire break with 5-7 days left (if tgey haven’t already, I’m not up to speed).
To add to your thought the border being closed is a step to an eventual break up on the union. There’s a specific tell-tale in the border closure I believe. Wales close thier border – Krankie clearly would love to have done already, but the awakening at her doing so would have been huge. Drakeford has paved the way.
Isee this as a tell-tale there is a strategy between the politicians and those higher in real control they are working together out of sight. We will see if Krankie closes the Scottish side of the border.
We saw the same faux differences in the Nothern theatre production of Burnham-Macbeth. All of it a game to regionally create a national lockdown.
Most of ’em can’t possibly behave any more stupidly than they are behaving now, short of dashing en masse like lemmings into the sea, which frankly would be a relief for the rest of us, only not in my bit of sea, please.
Bit of an obvious question but is there a stated aim to this firebreak?
I’ll post it later when I have time. Watch this space.
The study that claims to show :” the transmission of SARS-CoV-2, as measured by R” is correlated with non-pharmacological measures really does seem to be ‘a piece of work’, given what we already know.
A key issue is, of course, is that ‘R’ is another modeller’s construct that pretends to a reflect areal-world phenomenon with a numerical value which is, in actuality, purely speculative and open to massive error.
As the item points out, however, the key flaw is the whole basis of the survey – which clearly reflects the trend of the gompertz curve.
On this basis, I reckon you could probably find a relationship over 28 days between falling infections and the occurrence of any random event measured at the right point.
There is a positive correlation between ice cream consumption and death by drowning. Surely, the only responsible public health response is to ban ice cream?
Try this and have a good laugh:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kjh2110/the-10-most-bizarre-correlations
and water. Cant be too safe.
One can die from drinking water. It lowers the sodium level.
Leah Betts. Remember her? She got very famous for dying of “ecstasy” and the press wen to town demonising the popular “dance” drug. It turns out that she drank something like 15 litres of water and that is what killed her. She had heard that drinking water when you have “E’s” stops you dying.
Life itself is a terminal disease! That’s why our authorities are now looking to eradicate it…
Scientists discover that when people start taking off their coats in Spring and Summer it gets warmer outside.
The government therefore decrees it essential that people take off their coats now when outside in September to bring temperatures back to the levels in July and August.
In some areas of the North we have noticed that temperatures in October are getting cooler than in London. Therefore we now advise people in the North to take off all their clothes to stop this worrying exponential fall in temperatures.
We have seen some scientists claim that falling temperatures are due to the northern hemisphere being tilted away from the sun during the winter, and because the sun is lower in the sky during winter, this changes the angle of the light hitting us and how much heat energy we get from it. This is dangerous non-scientific nonsense and any videos claiming this will be taken down from youtube and other social media.
(November 2021 update) Temperatures have continued to fall and this is clearly due to people failing to comply with measures to remove coats and other clothing when outside. The government identifies that this non-compliance is particularly noticeable in the North
(Spring/Summer 2021 update) The government now see people are complying with the diktat to remove coats. This has partly resulted from the 66 million £10,000 fines applied to people seen outside during the winter without a coat. Outside temperatures are increasing and this shows our non coat wearing laws have worked.
That made me chuckle, thank you.
The practical implementation of Bertolt Brecht’s proposal in The Solution that when the people do not do the right thing, the government should dissolve the people and replace it with another.
After the uprising of the 17th June
The Secretary of the Writers Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?
Thanks for that. have been looking to see whats being said publicly about this. It’s been going on for years and they have had much practice – see here for more info https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/psychological-manipulation
That’s a good reference summary – apart from the confusion introduced by the hobby-horse of the climate change issue, which is a different matter.
Bit of a random thought. Has Derron Brown expressed any views on the ongoing psy-op yet?
Not that I’ve seen. Would be interesting if he were sceptical.
It seems to me that the thing to remember about behaviourism, whether in its psychological or its economic iterations, is that it is fundamentally elitist/technocratic and profoundly undemocratic. That is to say that democracy rests on the assumption that all citizens are equal and, as a result, are open to being persuaded to support one or other political choice or worldview based on appeals to their intelligence through rational debate and logical argument. Behaviourism, by contrast, assumes that an enlightened elite knows what is best for the mass of the people but that that mass are themselves easily diverted from pursuing that rational course of action by their irrational impulses and instincts. The enlightened elite cannot, therefore, rely on rational argument to win the masses over to their viewpoint, since the masses are by definition irrational and suggestible. The answer, then, is for the elite to attempt to ‘nudge’ the mass of the population towards what that elite knows to be their best interest but that the masses, by definition, are congenitally incapable of recognising or understanding.
I think this helps explain how a cadre of scientists and medics can reconcile to themselves promoting analyses and policy solutions that they know to be flawed or untrue: they can do this because they have convinced themselves that (a) they possess a unique knowledge of the situation that the masses cannot ever grasp, and (b) hence any course of action or statement that can convince or ‘nudge’ the population into line, however false or questionable, can be justified since it is necessary to encourage the irrational masses to fall into line in the name of the presumed greater good.
Of course, any true democrat will reject both of these founding assumptions, pointing out that (a) the elite are composed of many knaves, who don’t actually have unique access to the truth, and (b) the masses are not dumb instinctual brutes but free, equal, rational agents. Those democrats may situate themselves on the left or the right or in the centre of the political spectrum but they share a fundamental belief in equality and freedom that behaviourism rejects as naive.
I think of this often. Then Dr Hillary from Good Morning Britain tells me what I should think and I snap out of it.
Seriously though, would you be of the opinion that we have a democratic right to burn down our house if we so choose? Full liberty
We have a semi-detached, so no. Isolated detached, of course.
Where possible, I’d go with JS Mill’s harm principle, expressed crudely as: “The right to swing my fist ends where the other man’s nose begins.”.
It struggles when people start to take advantage of the inherent uncertainty in what the actual limits of “harm” are, but it’s a good general guide, imo, especially if you interpret harm quite restrictively (no bullshit about personal offence etc constituting harm, for instance).
Behaviourism is a partial theory of human behaviour, let alone ‘humanity’ – but powerful in its misuse.
Morally, I see no clear distinction between that misuse and kidnapping, torture, or a gun at the head as a means of coercion.
Thus the term ‘Goebbels Brigade’ for the perversions of Science that infest SPI-B.
Unfortunately the lesson of history is that both the nobles and the serfs are dumb instinctual brutes. The difference between them is that the nobles have found out how to exploit the situation.
The Anointed versus the Wisdom of Crowds
https://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2018/11/21/diet-health-and-the-wisdom-of-crowds-2018-version/
Brecht was an interesting, contradictory character, and you can find a lot that rings bells in the current situation :
“…. do get it into your heads,this ‘lesser evil’ which
Year after year has been used to keep you completely out of the fight
Will very soon mean having to stomach the Nazis”
… and looking at the sad state of our democratic representatives, this strikes me :
“The sharks I dodged
The tigers I slew
What ate me up
Was the bedbugs.”
Good stuff. You won’t be surprised to hear that politically I’m not generally in sympathy with Brecht. but he was clearly a very intelligent observer and a good wordsmith.
You surprise me Mark
The thing about Brecht – like Orwell in a different context, is that he was a natural contrarian.
The other thing is that when he began writing, the major issue (as here and now) was the growth of totalitarianism in the form of the Nazis in Germany. The communists at that time were in the forefront of the opposition, and were essentially libertarian. Stalin’s totalitarianism didn’t come into the reckoning in that context.
Orwell’s a good parallel.
Imo these men would have grown up today on the right but criticising totalitarians of both sides, rather than as they did, on the left but criticising totalitarians of both sides. In the late C19th and early C20th, the intellectual wind was in the sails of the left, as it is now in those of the right.
UK Column News – 23rd October 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Rv5mqKOA34&ab_channel=UKColumn
Night at the theatre anyone? https://mobile.twitter.com/hopemilltheatr1/status/1319628382787817479
They must only listening to a tiny echo chamber who think this is a good idea. I bet a large percentage of their normal customers will just stay away without being vocal about it.
Mad
Love the comments though
On the one hand, I feel a bit sorry for them as they are obviously trying hard to keep the theatre going and preserve people’s livelihoods. But on the other, I feel slightly sickened by their desperate attempts to be upbeat and positive about what are increasingly obviously pointless restrictions on individual liberty. The trouble is, it’s a win-win situation for those who want to impose the ‘new normal’ on our society. People stay away because of fears of Covid, and because of fears of the restrictions themselves.
Apparently Prof Pennngton is advocating zero-covid as an achievable objective;
https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/we-can-eliminate-covid-19-permanently-says-aberdeen-professor/
I cannot say I am convinced? He says in this article that SARS-Cov2 is not like influenza and that therefore we can eradicate it but he is not clear why this should be?
Then also there is the question; even if this could be done, which I doubt, the cost is incredibly high, do we need to meet such a cost now the virus has passed its peak and is just pottering along?
Of course we can reach zero-covid – because the tests are so accurate (up to 357% accurate), if everyone in the world got tested every 4 hours and we had a run of 2 weeks where no one in the world tested positive, we can all go back to normal.
Everyone knows that
Haha.
Was at a house party last night and everyone in the company agreed that unless the local village pub return to normal after this lockdown, nobody will be going back and it’ll be out of business.
It seems that suggesting hugely wasteful expenditure is a qualification for Professorial status these days, I’ve never heard of any respiratory virus being eradicated anywhere in the world. The only virus I’ve heard of being eradicated is smallpox – presumably it’s an easily identifiable disease that is rarely asymptomatic.
The virus has not been isolated. The viron has not been isolated. This idea of zero covid seems far fetched since the structure of the thing it seeks to ‘zero’ is not known to science.
Please, please correct me if this is no longer the case. It is my understanding the SARS CoV 2 virus structure has not been separated and uniquely identified. The following link to the biological effects and ill health are therefore not proven. There has been an assembling of a DNA sequence for it.
The PCR test was developed through websearch and rumour – without having isolated SARS CoV 2 to work with.
I realise this sounds incredible, I would value being corrected/updated by LS commenters who know more that myself.
Grouping together symptoms, some very servere, and labeling is not the same as proving an infection comes from a specific cause. For an example of this see Long Covid – the most charlatan grouping of symptoms to ever stalk the earth. Not at all to say people are not unwell, some serverely, but that it is many horizons away from being caused by a proven specific infection.
What are the symptoms of SARS CoV 2? How do you test for it? It has not been isolated.
Please correct me if I am not up to date.
I don’t know if you’re right or wrong, but certainly there are news articles claiming that the virus was isolated as far ago as March. And I’m sure I’ve seen other news about the RNA genetic sequence of the virus being published quickly in January.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-covid-19-virus-isolate-canada-scientists-mutations-strains-a9399226.html
You’re entitled to say and believe what you want, but I’d be concerned that saying the virus has never been isolated and that the PCR test was developed through websearch and rumour might be difficult to prove and for people to swallow.
I’m going to quote a message that someone left on my local nextdoor.co.uk page under the heading “Re Potential breach of Covid 19 Guidance – Be Wary”. I’ve elided identifying details. Apparently it’s not satire…
Sometimes, words genuinely fail me.
That’s not real surely?
If I could have their name please. I will add it to the list
Is that the Lord High Executioner list or the Dad’s Army list?
I think the guidelines say you can be unmasked if you are a carer. On this basis no parents should be masked. And it is perfectly legal not to wear a mask for many reasons. What a busy body. Perhaps someone should mention Disability Discrimination to her.
But it was outside
I know, I would have said that too. Wrong in so many ways.
It’s just another example of people ‘interpreting up’ the guidelines. The same thing happened during Lockdown 1 – most people said we were only ‘allowed’ one hour of exercise a day, but the official guidance said ‘one session’ – no time was mentioned.
There was an app on offer that would make your phone bleep after half an hour, so that you could turn for home like a good little moron.
In Wales it was illegal to leave your home for more than half an hour per day. And they tried to make it illegal to cycle further than a person could be expected to walk in half an hour, but that one turned out to be too cretinous even for the Welsh Politburo.
If you went a car journey it was forbidden to return by a different route from the one you went out on. Sadly, we kept on getting lost so that the return from our journey to the (nearly) nearest supermarket, five miles away (sort of), was 31 miles long.
I had no idea it was illegal to leave my home for more than half an hour during the last lockdown. Just as well really. My dog would have been most dissatisfied with only a half hour walk a day. I didn’t take much notice of the prohibition on driving either. We like a walk in the forest. Slightly irritating though having to stop at the entrance to untie the tape and move the tires so I could get the car up the track…
In England, the one hour limit was a myth. Someone asked Gove on TV how long people should exercise for and he just made something up. Almost immediately, it got around that it was law, possibly backed up by the more draconian ‘rules’ in Wales. .
We always ignored it! MW
I’d love to know know what guidance they have imagined.
I saw a similar post on my Next Door app. Someone had noticed more than 6 people in their garden and wanted to know if she should call the police. All but one of the comments agreed she should. One lone voice mentioned how Nazism took hold – I felt so angry I deleted the App
I think I have just secured my financial and political future.
This morning I have been granted a patent application for my new Christmas gift which I am sure will sell in millions.
Like most good ideas it is very simple, just a punchbag with a picture of Johnson on one side and Hancock on the other.
I will obviously make so much money from this idea that I will be able to start my own political party which, I will obviously call “The Punchbag Party”.
My manifesto for this party is also simple and consists of the following:
1] All coronavirus laws to be repealed.
2] The cabinet and shadow cabinet to be put on trial for treason and crimes against humanity.
3] The law on assault to be changed so that it is fully legal to punch anybody under the age of 60 seen wearing a mask in public, along with anybody wearing anything at all who has worked for the BBC or the Guardian in the last 12 months.
I look forward to your support.
Put me down for ten, but put Drakeford on them along with that repulsive little twat Gething.
Perhaps do UK, Scottish and Welsh versions. Don’t want to exclude various types of Irish, either.
Make sure that the Irish version has “Saint” Tony on it.
I would like a version with Drosten on it.
The guy who invented the PCR test.
Actually, PCR was devised by the late Prof. Kary Mullis. He was adamant that it was for purely lab. research, and was NOT a diagnostic technique
I’m sure there are hundreds of gyms all over the country that would be interested. Liverpool in particular…
I would like one before Christmas please? I can’t wait that long.
Brilliant. I have already put up the hook from which I intend to string said bag.
https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-releases/fauci-emails/
Fauci’s e mails this year.Supporting China’s response to C-19 in line with WHO declaration.
Margareta Griesz Brisson who she is:
https://www.topdoctors.co.uk/doctor/margareta-griesz-brisson
This is the German-language version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd22FGeuyog
My friend who is tri-lingual said this “Have just listened in German. It is the most moving appeal to reason and heart I have heard.”
Here is the English translation, it lasts 20 minutes and it’s all about the long term damage to the brain by masks and it’s as my friend said.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/Blzj0nJFEnpZ/
After much mucking about I managed to post this onto the Daily Telegraph, only for mods to delete it a minute later. OMG.
According to the WHO three hasn’t been a single positive flu specimen anywhere in the world since this whole covid thing started, Am I reading these stats correctly?
In the Asch experiment, my answer would always be the one I would see as correct. I would never conform when I can clearly see that others are wrong. I am guessing everyone here would be the same. I am proud to be the one who stands up and shouts the right answer.
Then you would be in a very small minority: not in thinking that you would prefer evidence, as virtually everyone would make that claim; yet the vast majority prefer the opinion of the herd, and have the capacity to persuade themselves that that opinion is fact. The people going along are not lying; they are being sincere.
Yep. Human nature. Unavoidable. The same dynamics play out in our own smaller herd.
Yes I agree. The thing is I sort of did this when my eldest had the MMR vaccine. All the furore with Dr Wakefield was happening at that time, and I was the only one in my ante natal group to go ahead with it.
Yesterday’s Telegraph featured an astute analysis from Jeremy Warner. He supposes the government is heavily invested in the lockdown strategy and cannot admit there are alternatives. In other words, the government is in a hole and digging deeper, desperately hoping to avoid admitting it’s wrecked the economy for nothing. I suspect Vallance also realises in his heart of hearts that the GBD strategy is right but cannot bring himself to own up to mistakes. Others here have suggested some members of SAGE are fundamentally corrupt, standing to make significant personal gains from the suppression/vaccine strategy – they may have a point. Some members of SAGE are clearly politically driven, seeking to usher in an authoritarian nanny state without democratic mandate. One day there will be an official enquiry into this catastrophe. I’d like to think those responsible will be held to account, but I’m not holding my breath.
The reason why so much of the lockdown narrative is in a hole is because it conflicts with reality. It is untrue. The truth will out.
Take masks. Can’t be proven and so when they make the mistake of mandating them they need to force it. If cases go up, can’t be masks as they work. So more masks, everywhere. Cases go up, but masks work so it’s masks on babies, at home etc. Cases go up,cant be masks, so we put people in jail who refuse.
Eventually we are burning the last few maskless at the stake. Then we realise that we were wrong all along.
Truth will out.
I’ll take the stake.
Not as a martyr, but as a stubborn git who WILL NOT COMPLY. In fact I CAN’T.
I can do no other.
Here we stand.
We need our own 95
Yeadon was a lot clearer than that.Its undeniable that Vallance is lying.Also at the start back in March there is an interview with Vallance where he is advocating Herd immunity.
Why did Sage totally change their approach is the question that needs to be answered
Because of the 500,000 deaths prediction combined with the global media and political pressure – fear of being blamed for the deaths. If they’d had more courage they would have stuck to it even assuming the 500,000 was true because whatever the danger, there was never any other practical approach
It’s like plate-spinning. With practice, you can keep lots of plates spinning for quite a while, but once one plate crashes, they all will, and fast.
y quickly.
I’ve realised what the PCR testing is. It’s the bank CDO departments during the financial crisis.
For those who don’t know it’s all in the book The Big Short. Essentially mortgage bonds (mortgage backed securities MBS) are actually stable instruments provided the quality of the underlying mortgages are maintained. When dodgier and dodgier loans are made the MBS is more worthless except its value can be propped up by its rating.
When some investors found a way to bet against MBS the banks realised that they could create instruments that combined the bets themselves and sold them as synthetic bonds. And the market was limitless.
Until of course it all came crashing down.
PCR is an industry now. And they aren’t letting go until it all fails. Even then most got away scott free
MP’s etc will have inside information and know when to buy in and when to get out
And if we had any kind of decent journalism in this country, they would be quickly exposed for insider trading.
The massive scandal of tendering contracts hidden under the guise of Covid has similarly been ignored.
Great comparison. How the ratings agencies were not disbanded after the sub prime crisis I’ll never know.
Too big to fail I suppose.
Same with lockdowns, PCR, vaccines. TBTF
I did say to my son, when I saw the two stooges’ Graph of Doom, this virus is a Ponzi scheme.
Of course Ponzi schemes run out of people so that rise of cases was never going to be exponential.
And yes, the PCR is an industry.
Something in the air
Thunderclap Newman
Call out the instigators
Because there’s something in the air
We’ve got to get together sooner or later
Because the revolution’s here, and you know it’s right
And you know that it’s right
We have got to get it together
We have got to get it together now
Lock up the streets and houses
Because there’s something in the air
We’ve got to get together sooner or later
Because the revolution’s here, and you know it’s right
And you know that it’s right
We have got to get it together
We have got to get it together now
Hand out the arms and ammo
We’re going to blast our way through here
We’ve got to get together sooner or later
Because the revolution’s here, and you know it’s right
And you know that it’s right
We have got to get it together
We have got to get it together now
Played over the admittedly biased ITV television report when the Citizens of the Bogside in Londonderry, NI held firm and defeated the hated B specials in the troubles in the late 60’s
Happy memories.
We need to talk about ” tele doctors ” . I have had the experience of working with a ” tele doctor ” . One of those ” tele doctors ” who boasted on their CV s of keeping their hand in. Needless to say they overrated themselves highly and were very conceited and opinionated.Their notes were full of inaccuracies . They were in essence very odd people , definately not team players and somebody you wouldn’t give a long term position to.
I will say this individual was however at least not Dr Hilary Jones who has been a PHE mouthpiece from day one of this fiasco and has now been awarded a MBE for his stirling propaganda service.
The video linked above was only mildly irritating (because of the presenters) up until the moment when the doctor appeared, after 10 seconds of which I had to stop watching.
I don’t watch tabloid trash TV like GMB for good reason, and Dr Sarah Jarvis illustrated exactly why as she arrogantly patronised the brilliant Maureen & Michael from Barnsley with her government propaganda and outright lies about lockdown, COVID-19 deaths and masks. It is disgraceful the level of deceit being imposed on the British people by the Government with the full backing of Parliament, as they devastate and destroy the economy and psychological health of the country, for an illness less virulent and deadly than seasonal flu. If you’re reading this, likely I’m preaching to the converted, but if we don’t stand up against this Stalinist tyranny of #ProjectFear, there will be nothing left to save; liberty will be the least of our worries compared to the 10s of 1000s who will die because Johnson and Halfcocked Hancock keep ranting about protecting the precious NHS whilst it protects no one since it’s been shut since March, and despite their protestations, British citizens can’t even get through to their doctors, let alone get an appointment. There is already blood on the hands of the Government with suicides and non-diagnoses of deadly untreated illnesses, but it’ll be far worse on a year’s time… The #FACTS that matter: lockdowns don’t work; masks don’t work; SAGE lie.
Maureen & Michael need to do another interview telling us how horrible this condescending woman treated them
Small increases in air pollution linked to depression, says study…
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/oct/24/small-increases-in-air-pollution-linked-to-rise-in-depression-finds-study
So THAT’S what is causing all of this depression. Having lockdowns reduces air pollution, so that must mean they’re good for our mental health.
More bollocks from the Guardians of our rights and freedoms.
Recent research has linked dirty air to increased suicides and indicated that growing up in polluted places increases the risk of mental disorders.
Classic correlation=causation error (see below). F.ing elementary scientific error.
There’s not much on whether they attempted to control for other factors – but from what I can see, they couldn’t actually do that given the scope of the study.
But strip it to its bones and you have ‘Polluted urban residential areas have a higher incidence of mental illness’
Well – bugger me. I’d never have thought that from all the literature on differences in populations!
All Grauniad readers must have grown up in hellholes of pollution, then,
But this crisis is reducing pollution massively and depression is spiralling. Case immediately disproved
The Range. Inessential items. If you can’t order them online you have to go into the shop, order them, then come back later to collect them in person.
So Drakeford’s turned a single shopping trip into two shopping trips. During a so-called ‘stay at home’ period.
Clown Planet.
If the fire break is two weeks. Is this essential only carry on for two weeks or does that have a different length of time to run?
Theoretically speaking of course since fire break creep will soon come.
Whatever they say, you can’t rely on it
Hahahahahahahahaha.
Cracker.
NO they are NOT!
everything is essential to somebody. who the fuck gets to decide what is essential?
The definition of “essential” gets to decide that!
Do any moron uman animal dies if there are no gyms?!
So… NOT ESSENTIAL! Make some other argument, expect “essential”.
What’s your beef with this? I don’t understand why you seem so triggered by it.
It’s just the usual modern slave stupidity… which is funny and I’m not triggered at all!
If morons believe gyms are “essential”… good for them!
Voz, let me make something quite clear to you:
Any business which provides employment to local people, or provides goods and services in a way which is sufficiently well utilised to make a profit, IS ESSENTIAL.
The usual slogan!
That depends on context. “Essential” or “inessential” for what, exactly? That is what we should be thinking each time these words are used, along with: relative to what?
If it’s all code for “essential for staying alive in a bare minimal existence and nothing more” then we should have that explicitly stated, as the starting point for our own judgment and risk assessment, because actually that’s a value-laden statement not an objective or scientific one.
Clearly it is “essential” for the ones talking because it’s their source of monetary slavery income. Other than this, there is nothing essential about gyms! Just another typical modern idiocy!
By the same logic, nothing is essential. If you want to grow your own food, drink rain and live in a tent in the wilderness that’s your business, but some of us would like to get on with things.
I am trying to generate my own electricity but damned climate change and more extreme weather are not materialising fast enough. 2 months in and I have had to recharge the battery from the mains to prevent it from dying.
If you “think” that’s is logic… You’re just another special kind of stupid.
They’re essential for the mental wellbeing of my step-son, fo one. As they are for countless other men and women, especially the young, from whom all pleasures of life have been viciously stolen.
So are gyms essential services?
YES they ARE!
If the “mental wellbeing” of your step-son depends on gyms, he has a much bigger unbalance that no gym can fix.
I just upvoted on the basis that I think downvoting is senseless and automatically upvote when it occurs. However when I did that the counter changed and increased the downvote. Sorry, I tried.
I like downvotes, for me they are upvotes… Nothing like showing the real number of modern moron slaves that exist out there.
If someone’s mental wellbeing depends on being in a gym, let them in to the f*cking gym. How much simpler, and more effective, than over-hyped talking therapies or useless drugs. the way to fix the mental health damage of lockdown is to defy lockdown, and resolve never to allow it again.
Err, free weights, pull ups on a tree, running. So no they are not.
(First time I’ve disagreed with you Mr D, I think. We’re not wokies, we needn’t redefine words to make our points, surely ?).
But life without your personal trainer is unthinkable.
It’s a perfectly good reason to suicide… Most cases of suicide in the western countries, if investigated properly, would reveal that that was the reason for the suicide.
Those suicides, of people who’s joy or business was ruined by government overeaction to a cough, when the counts are in, will far outweigh the deaths than covid could cause even in the very worst case scenario. The people committing suicide mostly have many decades they could have lived for if they government had not attacked them, the few who die of covid were within months of slipping away to something else. Both in your serious comments, Voz, and in your supposedly joking ones, you are out of order.
How I reckon zero decibels will answer this:
“The reason there are less deaths from Covid than suicide (even though we don”t actually know how many lockdown suicides there’s been yet – and there is no way of ever measuring it) is because we had a lockdown. It was worth letting a small number of people top themselves to save the lives of the 357 billion people that would be dead now if we never locked down.”
Well… modern slaves have been asking for this for many decades now.
Utter Personal Irresponsibility carries an Heavy Burden. Most modern slaves aren’t aware of this. It’s like the very small letters paragraphs on DEBT contracts.
I hope that you make up to 0db worth of sound in real life
I real life I’m enjoying OPERATION COVID… And I’m already getting ready for enjoying OPERATION ‘THE GREAT REST’.
Heh heh. Yet you got 3 ups, I got 4 downs.
I am on Mr. Dee’s side here. Gyms are not essential for me because I do not use them or want them. But other people with other interests do want them and use them. In the strict sense, for mere existence, Gyms are not essential; it is possible to exist without them. But the same is true for other activities, such as swimming (useful and almost essential for me since I had arthritis and swimming REALLY helps), visiting the theatre, going to concerts, football matches and so forth. There is a great variety of human interests which some people enjoy and this promotes well-being and health in all sorts of ways.
Personally, I detest football but I am NOT going to ban it nor would I support a ban. The thing that we are here for is FREEDOM. Freedom to do what we want (within fairly broad limitations), when we want and how we want. This is what makes life worthwhile and contributes to living.
Someone on this forum said that he or she is tired of people saying that that they could no longer do X or Y or Z and that one should do wants and if challenged, keep on doing it. This is fine as far as it goes but there are some activities that have been made difficult, tiresome or even impossible. How can a wine-tasting group work unless there is somewhere to meet? Passing the bottle around but keeping six feet apart (I refuse to use these continental perversions) is tiresome and frustrating. Do-able, just, but highly irritating.
I run four groups learning and reading Greek and Latin (see http://www.eroumen.co.uk); this is all right (but no more) over zoom but not nearly as much fun. Much better to meet in person. It is possible (at present and in our Tier 1 location I think) to hire a room for this activity, but what restrictions! Anti-social distancing, possibly face-nappies (dreadful for the hard of hearing) and pestilential signs everywhere. And then there is the ‘cleaning’ and the use of hand poison. Unpleasant is a mild word and I do NOT wish it to be inferred by the powers that be that this is even vaguely acceptable.
What I am saying, in fine, is that all sorts of human activities are ESSENTIAL for those who engage in them and on THIS forum we should all support that 100%. I think someone actually said this earlier today; he didn’t like Gyms but was totally, more than totally, in support of the opening of Gyms.
I’ll support any and everyone who wants to pursue an activity that to them is worthwhile and to others causes no harm. If you consider tiddlywinks tournaments essential, and want to fight your case in court or wherever, I’ll back you.
Here here, Annie. We all need a sense of community and belonging (not much of that around these days), chances to feel that we have achieved something and goals to work towards if we are to be resilient in the face of challenge and stay mentally fit. Those things are pretty hard to come by for many people at the moment but they are pretty basic human needs.
Agree totally.
As someone who also despises exercise and football I agree, it is nobodys business to interfere with other people’s pleasures.
Only tyrannies make a distinction between wants and needs, They do that so that they can justify how they give back part of what they have stolen from you. In free societies every man and woman chooses what to do and what to buy. Every choice rules out another choice; that’s the cost of living a finite life.
I also do not like gyms but am hugely behind them opening up and staying open.
(THAT DOESN’T MAKE THEM ESSENTIAL !)
All businesses are essential for those who work in them or run them and they are not in public sector jobs with taxpayer funded pensions.
That’s about it… Like I wrote above. They’re just “essential” for the modern slaves that extract the monetary slavery income. Nothing more.
Puzzled by the downvotes. Of course they’re nor essential.
Puzzled by the attitude. Why is he/she so triggered?
The system has a fault. I just upvoted again and it increased the negative count. This only occurs if there is already a negative vote shown.
I don’t think so.
I’ve seen that happen before and I don’t think it’s a fault. I think it’s just the system updating the total net count when you vote.
It’s not a fault! It’s just a balance sheet of votes…
Haven’t a clue. Whatever the reason, it doesn’t make gyms essential.
It seems that those downvoting are the ones wearing muzzles!
That’s the idea, be nice to people to get them to see sense.
That doesn’t work! A herd in panic mode can’t never see sense in anything.
This is quite funny because sometimes when I’m training hard at the gym and trying to push myself I jokingly pretend that I’m training for the “Zombie Apocalypse”. If there was actually a serious virus resulting in a genuine global pandemic it will probably lead to the mass breakdown of society, martial law and daily fight for the actual essentials – clean water, food, shelter. If that happens I’m sure going to be glad that I’m fitter, faster and stronger than most people. In a real pandemic it will be survival of the fittest!
Of course they aren’t essential. Although if the exertion of the users could be hooked up to the electricity grid to generate power, I’d be more sympathetic to that view.
Sylvie, that’s really old!
But it seems that the cattle didn’t enjoyed to be perceived as electricity source… not green enough I suppose!
This is how I know there is no “pandemic” whatsoever…
As for the scenario you described… Clearly a dude/gal without a single gym day in his/her life with a simple gun can really beat ALL that training!
So we should have been discussing ‘actual essentials’. Now I get it …
Voz 0db – are you for real?
You don’t turn up every often, normally at weekends, rant on like you are pissed out your head or on drugs and try and stir up trouble sow hat gives?
This your weekend job with the 77th to earn a bit of pocket money or are you just drunk a and a wind up merchant?
Can’t recall one of your posts that is really relevant to anything on here in a sensible way.
Don’t worry about me, fellow moron slave.
Watch for the SRF & Billionaires & jesters… they are the ones screwing you over, not me!
In the meantime…
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54666558
NI Health Minister ‘deeply concerned’ about cancellation of cancer services, but not concerned enough to reinstate them. In fact, he doubles down on the COVID propaganda by stating that this proves that we need to stamp down on COVID infections.
Tosser
Squared.
Wanker
Massive protest in Naples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDQJvVpH3nw
I wonder what the Mafia make of all this
You mean the government?
I don’t give much heed to gyms or churches.
But, the point is that it is totally brainless to try to distinguish the ‘essential’ from the ‘non-essential’.
… and you certainly wouldn’t ask certified arseholes to make rulings on such a concept.
One wonders what sort of impoverished existence lies behind the motives of people like Drakeford, Johnson or Wee Krankie and friends. But I do know that they aren’t a model for anything resembling real life.
FFS – they’re innumerate at the most basic level – let alone qualified to legislate on people’s essential life-preferences.
“But, the point is that it is totally brainless to try to distinguish the ‘essential’ from the ‘non-essential’.”
Exactly. This is at the heart of the problems with government intervention in general. People in government, like experts in general, always think they know better than the little folk, but too many of the most important real world decisions are either based on subjective values or are based on immensely complicated details that just do not fit into any convenient analytical mold. Or both.
This is one reason why voluntary measures are almost always better than compulsory rules, and certainly we’ve seen that demonstrated, in spades, in this coronapanic. That way they are inherently flexible and rapidly responsive to changing situations.
Better to tolerate the odd fool being foolish, than to put some fool in charge and let him force everyone to be foolish by law,.
That’s without, obviously, considering the moral aspects.
Every business, or other local amenity (church… althought traditionally relgiion has been a very profitable business), which is used enough to keep going is by definition essential. I’m not much of a capitalist, and I’m trying to mean more than just in the financial sense when I say what follows, but: if the “”market”” has space for something who the f*** do governments think they are to say it isn’t needed.
BBC R2 midday news
Some government arsewipe says, should the southwest go further into lockdown, they do not ask for additional support if they can afford to volunteer free school meals.
Patience, everyone. Within a few weeks the statistics will be beyond government manipulation and it will be clear that the epidemic has run its course.
Even though we are told it doesn’t exist, herd immunity will be disobeying government dictat and the only problem left will be the government. In fact it is worse than just the government, it is almost the entire political class backed up by self-serving scientists.
People need deprogramming a bit more first. Before the Scotland lockdown (RIP William Wallace by the way) the BBC said, quite clearly “There has been 1 death in the last week”
I thought this would be enough for the people of Scotland to kick the Kranky woman in the nads, but most of them are doing what they are told.
Sad but true.
They will (and already are) manipulate deaths and classify them as covid. The key thing there is to focus on all-cause mortality as a % of population, for this time of year, compared to previous years. That won’t convice everyone, yet, but it will help.
We know will it. But the books are well cooked and the majority are still MSM believing, obedient sheep.
“Within a few weeks the statistics will be beyond government manipulation and it will be clear that the epidemic has run its course.”
I’m generally all in favour of optimism, Pancho. But ‘Zippety-doo-dah’ stuff. ‘Fraid not.
The history is against you. Anybody looking at mortality data knew (as far as ‘knowing’ is possible) that the virus had, to all intents and purposes, f.ed off by June. But what did we have? ‘R’ numbers, a ‘second waves’ and a ‘casedemic’ to sustain the myths.
These myths are still running strong, despite data showing a normal seasonal rise in mortality.
As Mike Yeadon says, the ‘crisis’ will end when SAGE and government chooses, not when the virus ends.
Remember – mortality is on an upward slope at the moment – as it always is at this time. How do you think that will be used? Looks to me like a return of SARS-CoV-2!
I wish I could agree but the government publishes the statistics so if they say cases & deaths are rising then cases & deaths are rising. They can publish any old nonsense to keep this charade going.
When we say “self-serving scientists”, I think we need to be quite clear. Plenty of scientists are anti-lockdown, the trouble is that those self-serving, precedent ignoring, fact defying, lockdown zealot fanatics (they have long sicne ceased to follow the scientific method) are the ones at the governments’ ears.
October update
https://swprs.org/facts-about-covid-19/
There has been a lot of discussion about Patrick Vallance, He must know the truth but continues to deny it and pushes for the Government suppression/lockdown approach and we wonder what is motivating him. Corruption/money or just pure arrogance. But I’m wondering about Chris Whitty. He presents as mild-mannered and scholarly, a truth-seeking scientist at heart. A bit eccentric maybe, but in a “nice” way. But he must also know the truth. What is motivating him to lead the Government down this destructive path. Does anyone on here know him and can shed any light on his personality? What is his career track record? He seems to have popped up from nowhere but he’s in his 50’s so must have a career past. Has anybody any insights into his personality and motivation? Is he driven by money and power? Is he arrogance personified? Any thoughts?
everyone should have printed out and/or committed to memory the statement he made at the govt press conference on monday 11/05/2020:-
“Most people, a significant proportion of people, will not get this virus at all, at any point of the epidemic which is going to go on for a long period of time.
Of those who do, some of them will get the virus without even knowing it, they will have the virus with no symptoms at all, asymptomatic carriage, and we know that happens.
Of those who get symptoms, the great majority, probably 80%, will have a mild or moderate disease. Might be bad enough for them to have to go to bed for a few days, not bad enough for them to have to go to the doctor.
An unfortunate minority will have to go as far as hospital, but the majority of those will just need oxygen and will then leave hospital.
And then a minority of those will end up having to go to severe end critical care and some of those sadly will die.
But that’s a minority, it’s 1% or possibly even less than 1% overall.
And even in the highest risk group this is significantly less than 20%, ie. the great majority of people, even the very highest groups, if they catch this virus, will not die.
And I really wanted to make that point really clearly…”
Easier still, just took a screenshot, thanks.
Or this one:
the absolutely most important and momentous quote from CMO Chris Whitty on the 21st July 2020:
“If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”
why is all this bullshit even still a thing?
That’s the trillion dollar question.
If he now speaks out, he will lose his job and his professional reputation will be in shreds – if you assume the lockdown loonies continue to prevail. In the short term it’s his livelihood, longer term it’s about being on the right side of history, by which I mean the winning side. And of course it’s often hard to admit you’ve been wrong. None of this is at all remarkable – these are all natural human traits, that lead people to do evil, if unchecked. What has been remarkable is the extent to which the madness has spread, meaning that the normal checks on people in power have not worked.
I think that’s about right. Note that Mike Yeadon tries to stay away from motivations, despite his cutting demolition of Vallance.
But this lack of a counterweight is absolutely crucial. We have no operating checks and balances at the moment, with the MSM captured (despite some truth seeping through) and virtually no parliamentary opposition.
The only leg of the tripod left is the judiciary – and that is unproven as yet, and not an easy win.
The judiciary have not been a friend to democracy and truth in the recent past.
Well – they were in the proroguing of parliament – the most recent major case.
IME, the judiciary are often slagged off for simply interpreting law rather than massaging prejudice.
As a remainer I agree with what they did about the prorogation, however seeing a much greater calamity nowadays in the form of an illegal lockdown destroying everyone’s rights, rather than an illegal proprogation messing with the rights of 600 incompetent MPs, I’m disheartened that they haven’t been proeprly opposing it. I think the explanation must be that Boris had, before the panicdemic struck, already managed to fukfil his manifesto promise about stripping all the principeld people out of the judiciary and replacing them with pro-government yes men. Plenty of RETIRED judges have opposed lockdown (notably Lord Sumption but also including, apparently, Lady Hale of anti-prorogation fame), but no serving ones, how else do we explain it?
Serving Judges are not allowed to make statements in public of a political nature as it may leave them open to accusations of bias in particular cases. It is entirely different once they have retired. Before Blair’s reform of the House of Lords (now the Supreme Court) very senior Judges were members of the House of Lords by the nature of their appointment. In that capacity it was OK for them to contribute to debates. That would or could have been a means for them to stand up for freedom, if an opportunity were to come up in a debate on covid laws. Sadly that chance is now gone.
How do you imagine they might oppose it? Their job is to consider a case brought and decide on the law in force at the time. So far no case has reached them questioning the overall legality of lockdowns. And it would be difficult to do so since it is brought about by statute, the CV Act. I don’t doubt though that some effective case will be brought to court challenging some of the oppressive features quite soon .
A lot of reputations are going to be in shreds when the truth comes out. The enormous mountains of evidence against them will trap the rats in the sinking ship. I look forward to hearing them scream.
Aged 60, he gained two degrees, one in science and his medical degree back in the 70/80’s. I suspect his shares and interests and ties in Glaxo play a part. Glaxo is the largest vaccine maker in the world and they have partnered with many of their competitors to find a covid vaccine:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-find-a-coronavirus-vaccine-glaxosmithkline-is-bonding-with-its-biggest-competitors-11603512029
I know nothing of Vallance as a person. I have wondered whether some of those in positions of responsibility who have privately have doubts (or who downright reject the need for all the measures) fear that any admission of overkill or mismanagement will destroy credibility even among the lockdown-lovers and the population will run riot. The whole house of cards will fold and citizens will be de-mob happy and/or de-mob angry. I think that’s probably the only way out for us now, but I imagine that the prospect of that would be utterly terrifying for Government and their advisors.
What is motivating him [Whitty] to lead the Government down this destructive path.
I think it’s possibly the other way around.
Johnson is in control, but like all politicians, he needs scapegoats to take the heat if the shit hits the fan, so it suits him for people like Whitty to be held as responsible for this mess.
But Whitty does not have any power. He can’t sack the government.
Whitty is thought to be an angry pressured man behind the scenes. In part due to THAT photograph of tge cabal behind the scene where he appears to be putting forth a dominating point, jackboot johnson and hancock in attention. However, not only that one picture but others have noticed a dynamic that belies the mild mannered exterior. Look for body language around others. Apparently he lives alone.
$40M from Gates.
James Delingpole interviewed Mike Yeadon who said PV was a liar.
Look at who basically paid him during his career especially the early days on Africa doing malaria research.
That will explain a lot.
To understand what motivates/drives these 2 scientists working for the UK gov you first need to propose a theory that answers the question: What is this crisis about?
If you work on the assumption that this is medical crisis (ie to do with a virus named SC2 or what ever), as their job tiles would suggest, you might come to some conclusions about their motivations and drives.
On the other hand if you work on the assumption that this is not a medical crisis then you might come to some altogether different conclusions about their motivations and drives
Factor in that the German minister of health and his advisor are pushing the same agenda. …ditto France , Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Aus, NZ etc etc and you might come to some more different conclusions about their motivations and drives.
If you were Witty holding the buck (great reset/economic destruct/ carbon economy/crypo currency/ panopticon surveillance via vaccine/health pass) under the guise of a piddling virus wouldn’t you be furiously banging on Boris’s desk?
For those interested in excess mortality, here’s a radar chart like CEBM’s bot total deaths by month in Ireland for the last five years. As you can see, the result is the same as the UK. i.e. a unusual rise around April 2020 and back to normal again.
Yes – that’s an interesting comparison which, to the normal mind and eyesight illustrates the normal rise and decline of a virus.
i’m getting so infuriated by people saying “now i can’t do X/Y/Z”. the simple answer is “yes, you can!”. just do what it was you wanted to do (within reason of course) and keep doing it until someone comes along and tries to stop you. then if that happens (big if) keep on doing it anyway and make as much fuss as you can until they go away…
Leaving aside the fact that so much of this is “guidance” rather than law, and the distinction is intentionally confused, wouldn’t it be nice to live in a country where you could choose to obey the laws as a matter of principle, because they made sense and only addressed serious matters?
There has never, I think, been such a country, but we were a bit less distant from it a year ago.
One may well ask: “How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?” The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that “an unjust law is no law at all”.
The problem with that approach (not saying it isn’t as good a guide to behaviour as any other around, mind) is that the judgement of justness is inherently dependent on your moral foundations. A Christian (which for this purpose largely includes those raised in Christian cultures even if they themselves are unbelievers) will reach different conclusions in crucial areas from a Buddhist, say. It only works tolerably when you have a country that has a reasonably widely shared dominant ethical and cultural base. We call such countries nation states.
This is one of the inherent evils of diversity, that it undermines the foundations of ethical consensus.
An alternative approach (even more subjective) is the one quoted here the other day: “Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.”
The more our society is dogged by stupid, prescriptive laws the more that becomes the necessary basis for existence here.
Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, they all tend to a dangerous belief that non believers are lesser beings who should be discriminated against, suppressed, converted, burned at the stake, and so on. Most religions have a ‘be kind to one another’ sort of ethic going on, ministering to the sick, giving to the poor, sometimes underpinned by a spurious philosophy about (variously) rewards in heaven, a better life in the next cycle of being. They have similar ethical bases, and, being human constructs, the same tendency to claim superiority, oppress and discriminate, enrich their top men, in other words be used for ill purposes. The ethical consensus does exist. Diversity makes it possible to see how all such beliefs resemble one another in their capacity for good and evil.
I used religions as simple examples of fundamental differences, but in reality it’s often more a matter of culture in general than religion per se.
Yes, there are often commonalities amongst particular religions or cultures, but they are never congruent. Some cultures/religions are more mutually compatible than others.
Religions (I assume you mean theistic ones) are by no means the only belief systems that view non-believers as evil. There are few belief systems less tolerant than modern pc leftism, which is only constrained by custom and practicality from sending “fascists” and “racists” to reeducation and death camps.
Ethical consensuses do exist, but they are situational and not permanent.
The ethics of almost every philosophy boil down to “treat your in-group well* and its opponents badly”.
*for variable values of well, but self-consistent within specific cultures
Much to agree with in what you say, as ever, but don’t overplay your hand in your enthusiasm to damn woke lefties. Fascist totalitarian regimes on both left and right have no compunction about exterminating their oppositions.
I wasn’t meaning to imply this was confined to theistic religions, although it maybe read that way.
You argue for homogeneous cultures ‘with a widely shared dominant cultural and ethical base.’ That is where our disagreement lies. I think that foments distrust and persecution of the outsider. Countries which tolerate and do not discriminate against citizens in the basis of creed or skin colour or simply because they form a minority, are more comfortable and easier to live in .
Regrettably (or perhaps fortunately, you could argue it either way I suppose) this format does not encourage long discussions. I rarely check back on old pages once the new one is up, so it’s quite fortuitous that I saw your response here.
“You argue for homogeneous cultures ‘with a widely shared dominant cultural and ethical base.’ That is where our disagreement lies. I think that foments distrust and persecution of the outsider.“
My experience and understanding of the world suggests to me that intolerance and persecution generally stem from division, especially if it is combined with threat, as for instance in the case of Catholics in Britain in the C16th. But even in the absence of real threat countries that are multi-racial or multi-cultural, in the sense of having substantial different identity groups present tend to end up with their politics, laws and culture organised to address that division and manage it. As, for instance, the result of early mass immigration to this country was to take away rights or free speech and association (“discrimination”) that had always just been assumed to be unalienable.
We see this process ongoing in the US and here in the form of identity politics (not just racial, and not just immigration, division can be created by religious or cultural fracturing, such as the creation of first women’s and later homosexual and other pc lobbies) and general woke totalitarianism.
It’s unlikely to end in a fluffy rainbow New Eden, imo.
The Guardian: Neil Ferguson says easing Covid rules for Christmas is ‘a political judgment’.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/24/neil-ferguson-says-easing-covid-rules-for-christmas-is-a-political-judgment
‘A Broken Clock’ methinks
Happy to drive policy but slowly stepping back when it is clearly going pear-shaped?
I’d love a 1 to 1 conversation with Ferguson.
They just keep wheeling him out don’t they.
Nice to see a mix of people not masked up in town, although a bit disheartening to see almost every person in eldon square masked up.
I find it quite funny that they will wear a mask but not follow the arrows on the floor though, im hoping that is a suble protest
They have had vast cross street banners advertising Pedestrian one way routs which everybody has ignored since day one because it is inconvenient.
Doesn’t everyone? I do.
Masks nuke your downward vision.
I lived and worked in Newcastle before lockdown, wish I hadn’t taken it for granted now as my stint was sadly cut short by said lockdown. It’s one of my favourite cities. I used to love going on shopping trips with my bf, and we especially loved Eldon Square and the nearby Cineworld. Have many places closed? It breaks my heart to think that all these places are at risk from this highly destructive policy and I dread to think that something as innocuous as a Saturday shopping/cinema trip will become completely alien to our children.
I think public opinion is, slowly, turning in the UK, but not in other countries.
The reasons are the particular incompetence of the UK government(s), the realization of the general futility and the many absurdities of the restrictions, the dereliction of duty by the NHS and the fact that the UK is the only country which allows some dissent to be aired in the MSM, most notably the Telegraph and DM.
The latter simply doesn’t exist on the continent.
All the resistance stuff there has now migrated to Telegram, staying in its own bubble there.
Which makes it even more important that the public opinion shift in the UK continues and succeeds!
If it does and then spreads internationally, Britons could this time justifably claim that they have saved the world.
“I think public opinion is, slowly, turning in the UK, but not in other countries”
Whatever gives you that impression?
I was on a music forum this morning and the discussion was touring and playing live. Lots of US residents saying “not till 2022/23”. One guy said “I’d go today and not wear a mask”. The replies were vile. People saying any decision not to wear a mask was directly killing people and that the pandemic would go away if he wore a mask.
It’s honestly frightened me to read how invested folk are in masks and social distancing and lack of pleasure. It feels hopeless trying to get back “normal”
If the Danish study confirmed that masks don’t make a difference, or even s negative one, the sky is falling in for all those people.
THAT’s why it can never be allowed to be published.
Let’s pray.
But why have they not at least leaked it ? Leaks happen all the time and across lots of platforms.
In the end it’s going to be discredited by the zealots anyway, so just as well to get it out anyway they can.
However, it’s blindly obvious to anyone that masks don’t work. So no matter what the study says the same simple minded people will still wear them.
They are doing it this way because they have integrity and do not want to abuse the accepted way of publishing scientific information, unlike the purveyors of non-peer reviewed rubbish like Ferguson’s model.
If it supported the zealots it would have been published already, hence we know it reaches a conclusion that they won’t like.
I reckon the underlying balance has changed somewhat – but what you describe coincides with a lot of what I see, with people ultimately choosing to believe in fictions like mask wearing and lock-ups.
I mean – when a GP can promulgate uncorrected garbage on mainstream television ( as in the ‘Maureen and husband interview), but a reputable study on masks can’t find a publisher – there’s no sign of revolt.
The face covering hysteria seems to be very bad in the US.
I saw someone walking through the wilderness outside Denver with a face covering on.
Of all the loony behaviour this year the decision to encourage face coverings is the one that visually reminds me of the need rebel most. Such nonsense.
Isn’t the covering hysteria very partisan in the US? Trump supporters burn masks and rip them from others? Biden supporters assault the free faced?
I’m right in thinking that Woodstock went ahead during a pandemic that killed considerably more.
That would be the Hong Kong flu pandemic which affected both the US & UK in 1969.
Not only did Woodstock take place. The Stones performed a free concert at Hyde Park in front of several hundred thousand people in the same year and around 150k flocked to the Isle of Wight concert a few weeks later.
Oh – and England beat Scotland 4-1 at Wembley in front of 100k
I’m not sure that many of us were actually aware that a Pandemic was even taking place.
And let’s just remind ourselves of how close covid is to catching up with that one.
Covid19 – just over 1 million deaths in a world pop of nearly 8bn
H3N2 flu 1968-9 – 1-4 million deaths in a world pop of around 3.6 bn, equivalent to 2+-8+ million deaths today.
1969, Summer of Love! my first year at Uni. Can’t recall anything about a pandemic.
And here’s an interesting question for you (undoubtedly better qualified to answer it than I am).
If we were judging the covid19 epidemics the same way we judged the H3N2 ones in 1968-9, using the same tools (no pcr) and attitudes, when would we have judged this one to have been over and stopped bothering to diagnose new cases as other than seasonal and endemic respiratories?
And we landed men on the moon, no panicdemic kept NASA away from the labs then.
No doubt the vaccine ID will be required.
I think it could be a doubling-down by people who are, subconsciously at least, getting very tired of all the hysteria and restrictions. But instead of speaking out about it they have gone the other way and think that more restrictions and more appeasement will eventually work. It’s called ‘striving’ in Taoism – the desperate attempt to get what you want by trying harder and harder, which never works.
We must always be aware that the SS (77th Brigade or foreign equivalents) will be busy pasting the appropriate cabal-approved rejoinders.
Being in Germany.
Dear Jay, I am German but live in GB. I get all my information from German speaking sources.
Yes, the UK is most ridiculous with their regulations, but I get the impression that Germany is quite active. At least they are more organised through Querdenken groups.
I see lots of channels on YT who are critical. And I hear about a lot of censorship from German YT. So yes, they are moving to other channels, but still try to reach an audience via YT and direct them to their other channels which do not get censored.
I believe if Germany turns, it will have a huge effect on Europe. Yes, it will be quite a battle to overturn current policies and stop the majority of people to comply, as Germans like to “obey” people “in power” , but I believe in my fellow sceptical Germans that they can win much more than the British who got very complacent and uninterested in politics over the last 20 years
“I believe if Germany turns, it will have a huge effect on Europe.”
Yes – it will be far more influential than the UK, which is now on the periphery.
Germany (Berlin at least) in late August was lots better in terms of driving this drivel into every aspect of your life. Might just be my perception, but I sense that UK is more deeply invested in selfish and cowardly behaviour.
Germans seem to have protested against the lockdowns betetr than Britain has, maybe because the Stasi regime is within living memory for them.
I agree – Germany must get out of this before we Brits have a chance.
That we should look to Germany for salvation! But why not? Germans have learned the lessons of history. Brits, apart from us here and a few others of whom we know, have learned only the false lessons of cowardice.
Let us go forward together.
In fairness the war ended 75 years ago.
Look what happened 30 years ago, thousands peacefully demonstrated in the East and overturned a dictatorship. Ok, the DDR was bankrupt, as were most communist countries who folded consequently, but it is possible.
Sadly I think that if most countries don’t get out of this more or less simultaneously then we will see a more conventional war.
Hopefully the shameless censorship and manipulation by the tech giants will spur a big shift to alternative platforms.
I have done a lot of European traveling recently. I can tell you that from my experience there is much stronger general scepticism than the UK in France, Czech Republic, Slovakia and even Switzerland. However, compliance is high, except for the Czech Republic. There people are openly rebellious. I was even told by a train conductor that I could take my muzzle off because it is bad for my health. Czechs value their freedom.
However, as you say, the big difference in the UK is that the legislation is pathetically weak. I have never worn a muzzle in the UK because anyone can be exempt, but in Europe I had no choice. You are also correct that media in these countries has zero criticism. Over there, the likes of Peston and ‘Beff would seem like sceptics.
However, I feel like the UK is now seeing the fastest shift towards scepticism.
Britain is too late to be able to sayw e saved the world, Sweden on the other hand might be able to say they did so by setting the right exmaple and proving it worked. Even America, much as I usualy loathe them, cpuld be in a position, if Trump is clever (which traditionally he has not been), to get lockdowns consigned to history. Britain though, if we see sanity, will have done so too late to be the spark that saves the world.
Britain is too late to be able to say we saved the world, Sweden on the other hand might be able to say they did so by setting the right exmaple and proving it worked. Even America, much as I usualy loathe them, cpuld be in a position, if Trump is clever (which traditionally he has not been), to get lockdowns consigned to history. Britain though, if we see sanity, will have done so too late to be the spark that saves the world.
I hadn’t listened before to Maureen and husband, although I’d picked upon the item.
What a fantastic illustration of what is going on, with two individuals able to see through all the flim-flam and garbage, whilst a condescending GP can’t even get her head round some basic facts sufficient to distinguish between shit, shave and breakfast time.
Of course, Maureen’s husband is wrong.He hasn’t lived through ‘six’ more severe incidents like this. It’s probably nearer two dozen
(and more than a half dozen in the last 27 years)
But there’s this wheeled-on GP pretending to knowledge, but actually not even having a grasp of the basics when she patronisingly repeats the myth that ‘there’s been nothing like this before’ – a verifiable fiction that requires only ONS mortality figures and a simple spreadsheet to refute.
At least this incident blows out of the water any notion that the medical profession as a whole automatically know what they’re talking about on this subject.
Further evidence of the uselessness of the health service. The wife and I went our our flu jabs last week at our local surgery. Today we each received a letter telling us that we were eligible for a flu jab.
It also had an exhortation to sign up for on-line delivery of confidential correspondence to save unnecessary paper work! I have been getting secure messages on-line and by text for years.
and maureens husband even quoted the 100,000 deaths due to the1968 pandemic being worse than now…and that still went over the heads as they all smiled and nodded and treated the couple as if they had dementia
Just saw the clip from GMB with the lady and her husband V Dr Sarah Jarvis
Dr Jarvis said that Mauren was 500 times more likely to die from Corona virus. Not twice as likely, not three times not ten. FIVE FUCKING HUNDRED.
Then claims that “unless your 108 years of age you have never lived through a pandemic”.
And she has said this to an audience of how many millions ?
And she is STILL as of now. A Dr. She has not been arrested. Struck off. De platformed. Anything. No problem with her lies.
Let that sink in. 500 times more likely. And denied any other pandemic has been like this in over 108 years. Despite Hong Kong Flu.
“FIVE HUNDRED TIMES”
FIVE
HUNDRED
TIMES.
She is an utter scum bag.
“scum bag”
Nah. Just woefully stupid and unaware of basic numbers.
But I agree that there should have been a correction and an apology for such rubbish being spouted as fact.
I understand the language is direct. But if someone were to cheat an old person out of their pension, they would correctly be considered a “scumbag”. Cheating an old person out of their well rationed and considered opinion is to me the same.
I will seek out Dr Jarvis and ensure a suitable letter is sent to her.
Is anyone filing a complaint with Ofcom?
I agree,I absolutely despise that woman.
You can say whatever you want. Apart from the truth. Roll on Toby’s case against Ofcom though I’m not holding much hope for an un-nobbled judge
Even if that were true it is very clear that Maureen would not trade reduced risk for her freedom – and who in their right mind would? We salute you, Maureen!
Yes indeed. Maureen got a platform, which at last gives some of our views a platform.
Grateful if someone can ensure this tool gets some feedback about her 500 times. I am not on Twitter.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DrSarahJarvis
MBE no less !
Ah! Dr Sarah Jarvis, when she first started popping up on the box my sister took an instant disliking to the Doctor. Well it just shows you should always listen to your sister (she has never said why, she just had that feeling).
Throwing out fake stats to disrupt an opposing argument is a common tactic, at least when you can be pretty confident you will not be picked up on it. Conform to the consensus view and you will not be challenged
Yes. She is.
Worth noting that Maureen has been a local councillor for 50 years, i.e.since her mid 30s. That brings you into close contact with your constituents and exposes you to the difficult choices about expenditure and benefits. And she’s had the stamina to do it that long. Good on her.
When was last time anyone saw Carrie? I wonder how long her and fuckboy will be together? Also, why do some many people, even sceptics like Delingpole and Toby believe Boris ever had covid? I don’t. That was blatantly a scam.
Never seen her, but I think I saw her posting very recently. Not sure about the second part.
Regarding Johnson, it cannot be proven one way or the other. I thought at the time that his condition might have been in part psychosomatic. But well never know for sure. You just have to live with uncertainty sometimes.
You’re mixing up your Carries.
No, I’m not.
Carrie (Boris’s other half) does not post on here as far as I am aware. Carrie does.
lol, oh I see!
Kenneth Williams would make a brilliant deranged health minister:
I can see it now:
“I’ll show ’em, I’ll lock ’em up, I’ll vaccimate ’em”
‘Matron! What are you doing! Get up off your knees this instant! No, I said I want see my lockdown, LOCKdown all the way until it hurts! I said Lock, not…What on earth did you think I meant??’
Infamy! Infamy!…
Stalin for Drakeford, please. He’s a piece of extreme left-wing detritus.And, no wish to let Adolf off the hook, but he only waged war against certain elements in his own population. Stalin systematically terrorised the whole of his.
There’s a jackboot johnson Carrie and oor Carrie.
Spat tea everywhere soon as I saw Alastair Sim. you are a casting genius!
Think he means Johnson’s wife Carrie .
There is no maskless sunny place one can reach without donning a face nappy on the flight.
Only BA seems to accept our exemptions without additional tests, certificates etc..
And BA doesn’t fly to Tanzania&Zanzibar, yet.
I am sure, they could fill up a daily maskless flight to there easily this winter.
(Going via Nairobi with BA might work for the long legs, but then it’s nappy time until you’re there.)
Florida might be the next option for us ‘Normals’ once the US opens up again for tourists.
But likely, only if Trump wins.
“Risk Of Covid-19 Transmission On Planes ‘Virtually Non-Existent’ For Mask Wearers
Recently reported were the positive findings of a study in exposure to Covid-19 when flying. A US Dept of Defence study out earlier this month, states the ‘aggressive air filtration’ (HEPA) ‘lead to the near-immediate dispersal of particles carrying the infection’. The article goes on to say ‘that it would take a minimum of 54 hours of sitting next to someone (on a plane) with Covid-19, to be exposed to an infectious dose.”
Don’t start confusing the issue with facts. Masks are good, the WHO said so.What, OK they didn’t say so until political pressure was put on them by their donors to ignore the evidence.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/23/the-cult-of-the-brave-new-normal/
This is what we and ‘the change of opinion’ is now up against.
The Vaccine Swindle – Part 3:
The vaccines are therefore primarily measuring their effectiveness as a treatment of the COVID-19 disease rather than immunising the inoculated against infection from the SARS-COV-2 virus. This is a subtle but extremely important nuance. An analogy would be a vaccine that delays or mitigates the onset of the AIDS disease but does nothing to protect from being infected by the HIV virus. Hence the stated clinical aim of the vaccines is not to prevent transmission of the virus.
https://blog.argonautcapital.co.uk/articles/2020/10/22/dud-covid-vaccines-are-no-silver-bullet/
Can’t believe we are all still in this.
Anne Frank was truly a remarkable girl
Can you elaborate why you are mentioning Anne Frank?
She spent two years in “lockdown” hiding in the annex. Without all the 21st century comforts we have now. I wouldn’t compare our situation to the severity of Anne Frank’s but if we’re finding this situation difficult it helps you appreciate how unbearable hers was.
That makes lockdown ok then? This sounds to be your argument. That we should quit complaining because someone else had it worse? Perhaps you’d like to clarify.
I don’t think that was Ricky was intending to say, but I’ll stand corrected if it was. It’s more like, our situation is crap highlights that her situation was absolute crap on steroids.
Never intended to suggest it makes lockdown okay. ConstantBees interpretation is correct. For her, leaving home would have been certain death. We arent quite at that point yet.
My point is that my appreciation and respect of her difficult circumstances has been increased knowing she lived under much stricter and stressful circumstances for two years, when I am struggling with the consequences of social isolation and my life being put on hold for 8 months (so far)
She spent two years in “lockdown” hiding in the annex.
But that was not mandated by law.
No, she should have exercised her free will to go straight to a concentration camp instead.
From elsewhere:
”c. 200 deaths per day. CONTEXT: there are 70m people in UK that’s 1 in 350,000
c. 200 deaths per day. CONTEXT: Covid is only the 19th highest cause of death
c. 200 deaths per day. CONTEXT: there are less people dying in UK at present than in a typical year.
Every death is tragedy. CONTEXT: the average age of those dying is 82 and 90% have comorbities
6000 people are in hospital with CV. CONTEXT: there are 2000 hospitals, so 3 per hospital
700 people on ventilators: CONTEXT:we have 30,000 ventilators
21,000 people testing positive. CONTEXT: an estimated 400,000 contracted the virus on 23 March
Daily positive tests have gone up 20 times since early July. CONTEXT: deaths have only doubled and are still negligible”
Good context.
Yes, Good way of explaining it all.
“CONTEXT: there are less people dying in UK at present than in a typical year.”
But just to balance the grammar pedantry, good post! (And I up-thumbed it)
I like it! Have you got a bigger image?
Sorry, no. Stole it from a Facebook discussion months ago.
Looks like there are quite a few versions around online if you DuckDuckGo “the pedants revolt cartoon” and look at images.
People complain about Amazon and others profits and the amount of tax they pay, yet they happily endorse restrictions which increases their profits and kills off the high street.
All my family have now boycotted amazon.
I always suggest using eBay as an alternative if you can’t handle the masks on the high street. Lots of small businesses use eBay as their storefront. That’s where I get things these days.
I do too.
I’ve been listening to Vanessa Beeley in conversation with James Corbett. Those of you here who know who she is will not need any elaboration. I don’t always listen to Corbett, but he does sometimes have some interesting pieces.
Beeley is among a number of independent journalists working in Syria. Beeley and others say that the so-called “White Helmets” are a Western propaganda construct and a vehicle to sugar-coat the regime change agenda in Syria as promoted by The US government and it’s European allies, principally France and the UK.
In the UK, the only mainstream journalist who has been challenging the UK government over it’s activities in Syria is Peter Hitchens.
Beeley has been telling James Corbett that the BBC is about to launch a hit-piece on her and other independent journalists in a ten part “documentary” which will be featured on Radio 4 in November.
“This is the BBC coming on as a full-on extension of state power. Correct me if I’m wrong, but has a media outlet ever, in the past, actually threatened a target with legal action?”
https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/21/watch-bbc-prepares-hit-piece-on-independent-journalists/
Beeley says that the BBC has even gone as far as threatening her with legal action, claiming that that she is a de facto agent of the Syrian government and that her journalistic activities in attempting to expose the White Helmets and their founder James Le Mesurier make her guilty of crimes under international law.
I personally think what we are currently enduring here with the continuing covid charade has little to do with rich, but merely influential “globalist” figures, and everything to do with an increasingly authoritarian and oppressive state machine.
She was interviewed recently on UK column news.
Thanks, I haven’t seen that. Must check it out.
sports update..
this morning watched some of the Aussie Rules playoff. Usually played in Melbourne at the MCG , due to the Victoria imprisonment it was played at the Gabba, Brisbane. in front of a crowd of 30000 (reduced from 38,000).
Both teams are based in Victoria and so no supporters were allowed to travel from there due to imprisonment. Only supporters already in Queensland or a state where travel to Queensland was permitted could attend
What a farce. However interesting that such a big crowd permitted in an Australian stadium
I am usually an avid cricket follower – plus a bit of football.
However, I have completely lost interest in these pathetic performances in front of zero spectators.
I will not watch it. I do not want to watch it.
It’s prison entertainment.
Turn the damned farce off.
Are the teams still engaging in that disgusting behaviour of “taking the knee”?
I take it you won’t be watching the Lewis Hamilton sycophant’s show featuring the “commentators in tight trousers and masks” spot.
Certainly won’t be.
Yes, at least in the English Premier League. I have a variety of coping strategies including temporarily changing channel, shouting abuse at the TV, giving them two fingers, or turning my back and bending over (I haven’t quite got to the stage of lowering my trousers).
and the BBC/ Sky have to feature this in highlights coverage just to virtue signal
Agree
No spectators, stupid bubbles and muzzles
Rather watch a kick about at the park
Indeed. At this rate all sport will be amateur in a year.
And seeing them all genuflecting for BLM before the game only adds to that.
The sports stadium total shutdown is complete nonsense. The sporting authorities have taken totally the wrong approach in dealing with this rancid government, which they will pay for. I can only think the stadium shutdown is another psychological tool, like face muzzles, keep people scared.
Martin Keown on Football Focus (one of the few bits of BBC I watch) made the same point today.
Are the Welsh Gyms going to defy their local Covid Gauleiters and open or just complain about it?
This is what their GoFundMe page says:
Are you openly violating “covid regulations” and getting fined for it? If not, I suggest you moderate your tone a little bit and consider donating to their legal fund. I just donated a fiver to them myself.
We don’t need “ideological purity”, we need people to drag the government through court, if necessary to get them to cease and desist, as we say in the States.
Just a shout-out for an OffGuardian article on the psy-ops from the Goebbels Brigade. I find that the quality of OG is variable, but this is a really good analysis :
https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/23/the-cult-of-the-brave-new-normal/
The comments section of OG would scare even a hardened sceptic. They largely believe the coronavirus to be an outright scam. Not just opportunism but a manufactured crisis
They don’t scare me. I think they are almost certainly right. MW
Agree, a complete Psy op not being questioned by the masses. Masks, stand 6ft apart, walk in the same direction, rub hands with gunk, a ritualistic dance.
Covid lockdown protest in London. Live now.
https://youtu.be/-3xAYTP_5Zg
Not yet got an idea of scale but numbers appear to be swelling. Streets are closed as the protestors march through. Lovely to see a Welsh flag.
Couple of Cornwall flags too !
Even though there is almost no covid there at the moment .
Great to see.
Numbers look impressive.
Anyone there to give an update from the ground ?
Looks like a lot of people there – what strikes me is how ‘ordinary’ they look. The sort of people you might see in your local library, church or teashop. One generally does not see large crowds of people with that ‘look’ in central London these days.
RUPTLY
Protesters, for the large part Covid-19 sceptics, conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers march from Speaker’s Corner in Hide Park through central London on Saturday October 24, against restrictions measures related to the COVID pandemic.
I guess they`d banned if they did not write this nonsense.
Seems that Boris will be brought down by women who wear big brooches…
-The only difference between the past pandemics and this one is that the government has stepped in and got it all wrong.
-Get rid of scientists. I didn’t vote for them to be in charge.
They should go back to their universities and into their labs.
On the other hand:
“We totally underestimated the impact on mental health.”
What?!
This was clear from the very beginning, as were excess cancer&cardio etc. deaths.
And despite admitting this now, you are still advocating a repeat?!
And save hospitals from being overwhelmed?
That didn’t happen in March, it can be addressed by spending on Nightingale hospitals instead of on useless tests (Dr. Lee), and doctors are busy playing golf instead of working anyway.
I came across another instance yesterday of someone being sent a positive CV19 test result, despite not having returned the swab to be tested (anecdotal, as are they all at the moment, but I have no particular reason to doubt what I was told)..
Perhaps Lockdown Sceptics/Toby Young should conduct a survey to see how many instances there are of these fake positive results. These aren’t in quite the same category as false positives from the PCR analyses. These are fake results from tests never even carried out. I’d like to know just how many there are and why. Do they skew the overall figures to any extent, or just an insignificant number?
There are so many of these now YouTube and Facebook.
It’s ok, the will be swabbing the sewers soon, another reason to lockdown for longer and another scam.
if only the most powerful man in the world was a lockdown sceptic – oh, hang on – wait a minute…
I’m sorry, but who are you referring to here? Trump?
Rock
nShield ?Obviously not that powerful then..
Sometimes, when you haven’t thought about a topic for a while, or perhaps just when you wake up in the middle of the night, you have a visceral insight about something, which familiarity with the topic concerned would normally not permit.
so it was for me this morning. I woke up, and after a few moments the covid situation came into my mind.
I realized with an instant immediacy that the purported reasons for all of these measures: anti.social diastancing, masking, lockdowns, cannot possibly be true.
When we think about lockdowns, anti-social distancing and masking, then social psychology comes to the fore.
I realize that this video might be a bit ‘out there’ for quite a few people, but I do suggest watching it.
It is only 12 minutes long and it looks at all of the llockdown measures in terms of an initiation ritual and social conditioning:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/3RVG8qNLdoY/
I remember watching this back in April and it’s even more relevant 6 months later.
Excellent
Since businesses such as shops, pubs, restaurants, barbers etc were allowed to re-open after the first lockdown, have there been instances of staff and customers falling I’ll and not just testing positive without a clinical illness or symptoms. Do you feel the reason these businesses are being forced to close again or operate under restrictions is that if these business operate unhindered without staff and customers dropping like flies, the narrative we are in a pandemic is undermined.
To be Covid secure required an evidence based risk assessment. There is no commercial settling that can prove, without significant doubt that there has been a Covid transmission in their premises. Therefore there is no evidence that ANY risk reduction measure was ever necessary. Despite this far too many business looked at the HSE (garbage) risk assessment and copied it. I know this happened as if happened at my work and I did EVERYTHING I could to say “no – we have no evidence of the risk we are assessing”. But got over ruled time and again by the mantra of “we must be seen to do something”
No one had the courage to say “we have assessed the risk and there is no need to adapt”. If everyone has followed the IOSH / Neebosh training then none of this cult would be possible. And no amount of bullying from Governments can really create a provable risk in a commercial premises.
You can catch a virus from dust floating in the wind. That’s life. You don’t have to be having a hair cut to get it.
But if it’s the activity or the premises we are meant to assess? Either way you need evidence. I can’t see a way a premises can ever be seen as unsafe for virus transmission, and activity wise you need evidence. How many haircuts happened between October 19 and March 20 globally ? How many cases were there ? How many were proven as to where the infection happened.
Kate Garroway and those other 2 women were the most patronising bunch I have seen for I don’t know how long, they clearly regard anyone over 70 as being senile, they clearly think it is their job to protect them regardless of whether they want to be locked up or not because they believe these elderly people are too stupid. And its patently obvious as to why, its to feed their own self satisfaction of saying look at how good and virtuous peron I am, I am protecting you, the fact that you will suffer because of my wishes is immaterial. Those women on that programme were a disgrace, they clearly thought that Maureen and her husband were some kind of quaint creatures not to be taken seriously. Garroway a bimbette with a big smile who got a lucky break on a tv show and a GP again who was more concerned with protecting the NHS, and allowing other to die, while she too patronised simpered and then made a crass joke about her own Father.
And her grandmother.
Isn’t the overall attitude of COVID zealots that they are protecting us so why aren’t we grateful for what they are doing?
I had my regular chat with a hardcore lockdown zealot friend today. He mentioned the Tokyo study showing 50% seroprevalence combined with a tiny IFR.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.21.20198796v1#disqus_thread
His view? Clearly it’s because everyone wears a face covering therefore reducing the viral load.
Is there anything in this viral load thing? I’m not seeing it myself, but eager to be informed.
You couldn’t get a bigger viral load than touching a surface which a Covid infected person has just touched with their snotty fingers. and then touching your nose area while fiddling with your mask. People fiddle with their masks all the time.
Why does the flu virus spread so well in Japan if masks are do effective?
Presumably the argument will be that masks don’t inhibit spread, but they make it more likely those caching it will have a relatively non-serious illness.
That’s the argument.
The variolation argument, from my understanding, is that masks supposedly prevent/reduce the likelihood that inhaled virus will reach deep lung tissue that would result in a more severe infection.
A bit odd on the face of it, because it’s precisely the much smaller aerosol particles that are not inhibited by masks that penetrate deeper into the lungs.
Indeed, there is much contradiction and ambiguity re: masks. The area is not my specialty, but if this argument holds weight, then surely the onus is on protecting the wearer and not the ridiculous notion of protecting those less than 6 feet away.
I practised shallow breathing when shopping throughout the spring pandemic. You don’t need a mask to do that. And you certainly don’t need a mandatory mask if true. A voluntary one will do. But I suspect oxygen reduction will lead to deeper breathing.
That doesn’t make sense.
Of masks donanything theyballow the large droplets to be broken up into a fine mist.
The finer the water droplet, the longer it dwells in the atmosphere before falling to the ground and the deeper into the lungs it is inhaled.
This is why colds flus are less prevalent in higher humidity.
Evidence is that Japan has a higher seasonal flu mortality than USA or Europe because of the prevalence of mask wearing.
https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/influenza-pneumonia/by-country/
Well that’s what I call an elephant powder argument. We know the Japanese generally have a much better and more varied diet than in the West and a much lower incidence of obesity. They seem pretty fastidious about toilets and so on, so probably have higher standards of hygiene than in the West. How would you screen out these other factors ( that’s before we look at cross immunity).
Plus they have the BCG vaccination for TB.
Despite all the above they have a higher mortality rate from seasonal flus than USA or Europe, so Occams razor – its the mask wearing that is causing it.
https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/influenza-pneumonia/by-country/
Delighted to see reference to the elephant powder argument. When I was 12, my family moved home and my grandfather told me that he had laid anti elephant powder all around the property to prevent against elephants, to which logical 12 year old me duly replied that there were no elephants in Ireland, to which I was told that that proved it worked!
I think governments will eventually be using an elephant powder excuse to exit lockdown – ‘because you were such good boys and girls and accepted lockdown, the virus has been defeated.’
This seems to be the latest front in the push for masking (noticed it was slipped into the Telegraph article yesterday about a change in opinion on lockdown measures).
Need to discuss it here to arm ourselves for outside debates.
Peru – compulsory masking for 7 months now.
Whil we are waiting for the Danish study I suggest this from 2015:
“MELBOURNE: The use of cloth masks by healthcare workers may actually put them at increased risk of respiratory illness and viral infections and their global use should be discouraged, according to a new study.
The findings come from the first randomised clinical trial to study the efficacy of cloth masks conducted by the University of New South Wales (UNSW).
The trial split 1,607 hospita ..
Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/cloth-masks-may-up-risk-of-infections-study/articleshow/47027869.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
…and Peru is top of the death rate league.
A more recent article from June 2020 by Isaacs,Sidney, also dismissed facemasks as effective against C-19.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7323223/
The key is, in fact, hand washing. They are very good at that in Japan and Hong Kong
‘There is, however, evidence that SARS-CoV-2 can survive adverse conditions in the gastrointestinal system. It has been identified in endoscopic specimens of the esophagus, stomach, duodenum, and rectum of COVID-19 patients; substantial amounts of SARS-CoV-2 RNA have been consistently detected in stool specimens. [DIng S 2020] Various observational and mechanistic evidence presented throughout this evidence brief supports the hypothesis that SARS-CoV-2 can infect and be shed from the human gastrointestinal tract.’
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/sars-cov-2-orofecal-transmission/
‘With Sars once it was discovered that the virus was spread through the fecal oral route there was much less emphasis on the masks and far more emphasis on disinfection and washing hands. HK has far more cleanliness (than China) and they are very aware of social hygiene. And other countries will be more aware of the social hygiene (than China). So in those countries you should see less outbreaks and spreading. A couple days ago the fecal-oral route of transmission was confirmed in Shenzhen. In China, most of the latrines are open- there’s more chance of fomites being spread. But in other countries the sanitations systems tends to closed. My personal view is that this will be a bad cold and it will all be over by May.’
Prof Jon Nicholls Coronavirus expert, Univ of Hong Kong 06 Feb
Hand washing is very effective for prevention of the common cold. Hmmmmm………
Also reinforced by numerous articles on oral foecal transmission by Karl Denniger.
https://market-ticker.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?post=239747&page=1
If the population built up a 50% seroprevalence on such a low viral load, wouldn’t being exposed to a higher viral load (due to being maskless which is the logical situation of his argument) increase the seroprevalence due to more people being infected by the virus?
Having thought about this, is your friend advocating herd immunity?
Dr Sarah Jarvis, patronising lying piece of shit. Talking down to Maureen and her husband. She should be ashamed of herself. Yes Dr Jarvis, its that bad 99.98% people who get it survive. Its that leathal its number 24 on the list of ailments/viruses that can kill you. People like her and Dr Hilary should be struck off, bought and paid for by the MSN. Complicit in the lie and a collaborator against the British public.
At least she was trapped by her own pomposity. She said that they could not have possibly lived through a worse pandemic than the current one, and Maureen’s husband came straight back with the numbers who died in the UK in the Hong Kong flu in 1968.
Well, Dr Jarvis didn’t believe him as she just shook her head when he retorted. Tbh, she is probably that far up her own arse, she is unaware of Hong Kong flu. My wife, who is a prescribing pharmacist says in her experience, Doctors are intelligent fools with little common sense. Dr Jarvis quite clearly falls in to this bracket.
The top and bottom of it is, if the mainstream media today was like it was in 1969, there would be no pandemic and we wouldn’t know about it. It exists today because of the scaremongering MSM and vile social media platforms like Facebook and Twatter.
I was going to say something similar but you put it more succinctly! Why was she smirking all the way through? And why is she still comparing it to the Spanish Flu is she stuck in a time warp back in March 2020 when we thought the IFR was 3% +. The only positive from that interview is to remind us not to watch MSM if we want facts and constructive discussion.
Couldn’t agree more.
They absolutely refused to take on board Maureen’s main point. The lethality of the virus is actually beside the point: even if it kills every single old person who contracts it, is it worth penalising the life chances of young people to suppress it? No, not it is not. Maureen knows she is 83, knows that every single day she is taking her chances and doesn’t want to sacrifice young people’s prosperity to help herself. I find such generosity of spirt, such patriotism, such love of civilisation incredibly moving, certainly much more attractive than the fearful self-centredness of those who value public health over what we are passing on to our chidren.
Some of the Daily Mail comments were horrific accusing her of being selfish and spreading the virus! Some folk are just crazy. Hats off to a sensible brave lady much like a friend of mine.
Jarvis is horrible. The textbook MSM virtue signaler and she does it with the perma arrogant, know all smirk. Easy MSM money every week but no principle, morals or decency. Off switch is the only remedy when this ginger rodent appears on the TV.
The comments on the GMB twitter thread regarding Maureen and partner were so relentlessly negative, so insulting, so argument-free and so devoid of scepticism that one suspects foul play either on the part of GMB or an external agency.
She got rope a doped.
Her original comments were all she needed to say. They were really good, heartfelt and short. It was enough.
But they deliberately put her back on and gave her plenty of time to speak. And of course, the vast majority of people can’t speak coherently for long stretches on a subject without lots of preparation and practice. So she sounded like a normal person – semi-coherent, a bit muddled, not very impressive.
Bomb defused.
Jarvis had to resort to lying and misrepresentation to “win” the argument. I’ve only seen snippets but like most Yorkshire folk they seemed to get their points across pretty effectively.
Neither she nor her husband came across as semi coherent or muddled. They maintained their cool and cited facts in support of their views. The only person ‘not very impressive’ was S. Jarvis. I’d never hear of her before this. She seemed patronising, ill informed and completely unsuited to the job. Has she been doing it long?
This must be one of the barmiest paper about C-19 ever published. There are some teasers quoted below the link. The most remarkable, it is published in a prestigious medical journal despite the last phrase in the article quoted at the end. And they don’t want to publish the Danish mask study. https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early/2020/10/21/2009787117.full.pdf
The pandemic exposes human nature: 10 evolutionary insights
“ At the psychological level, we describe the ways in which the pandemic can affect mating behavior, cooperation (or the lack thereof), and gender norms, and how we can use disgust to better activate native “behavioral immunity” to combat disease spread. At the cultural level, we describe shifting cultural norms and how we might harness them to better combat disease and the negative social consequences of the pandemic. These insights can be used to craft solutions to problems produced by the pandemic and to lay the groundwork for a scientific agenda to capture and understand what has become, in effect, a worldwide social experiment”“For instance, as we describe below, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) may be under evolutionary pressures to alter human behavior by increasing our extraverted tendencies—thereby creating a conduit for viral transmission from one person to another”“It is possible that SARS-CoV-2 has been particularly successful because it is highly infectious before symptoms appear. Suppressing sickness-related behavior of hosts is one way that viruses can increase their fitness. Hosts that are infected but do not feel sick are more likely to go about their usual activities”“The second possibility of how SARS-CoV-2 could affect host behavior is by contributing to mood disorders, such as mania, that could increase activity levels and decrease feelings of sickness, at least temporarily, during times of peak transmissibility”“SARS-CoV-2 seems to have a predilection for infecting neural tissue and causing neurological symptoms, found in up to 36% of patients in initial reports . SARS-CoV-2 has been recovered in the spinal fluid of COVID-19 patients , suggesting that the virus can directly invade the brain and nervous system.”“Unless virus test certificates become common, romantic consummation will be delayed for all but the medically uninformed and the high risk-takers—trends that may, in turn, bias birth outcomes.” “With the loss of their own economic autonomy, many women will come to rely on male partners as breadwinners, exacerbating the structural problems underlying gender inequality. This may shift families toward traditional structures and conceptions of gender—a shift toward social conservatism”“Cultural evolution must be well monitored; otherwise, it will still take place but will result in outcomes that contribute to problems rather than solutions (e.g., conspiracy thinking and distrust of health experts). A key insight of evolutionary thinking is that—in contrast to the metaphor of the invisible hand—the pursuit of lower-level interests, such as short-term individual, corporate, partisan, or nationalistic interests, is far more likely to undermine than contribute to the global common good”“These are some depressing possibilities that invite a conclusion that humanity is spiraling downward to a new low point. Those who deny the possibility of social progress might feel vindicated by the COVID-19 pandemic of 2020, because it shows that life has gotten worse rather than better. But has it?”
“There are no data underlying this work”.
Wonderful! Even if I can’t actually mount up the stamina to read it all.
One for Woke Gobbledegook?
So these untrustables are saying in no uncertain terms the virus plots and “can” modify behaviours in hosts to allow it to procreate. Wow! Not that as a consequence of what it is other entities in the eco system are impacted.
What a mind as good as yours Swedenborg must make of this claptrap!
The only thing with a grain of truth is that the mild illness in C-19 makes it more prone to spread. Classical influenza has more severe symptoms specially with muscle pains and general aches. That might force the person to stay at home during the most infectious time. In C-19 we have a ridiculous 2 week time in isolation where the person might be well most of the time. No wonder that just 10 % isolate for that time. But the solution is only 7 days isolation and generous sick pay from day 1.It would cost money but nothing compared to the 12 billion £ spent on useless testing. The idea of C-19 giving mania or altered behaviour is just crazy nonsense.
Even that wouldnt work if you felt well. They would have to pay me a SHIT TON of money to stay indoors for even one day. I need to get out of the house and it would take a lot of money to convince me to do otherwise. More than they would ever think acceptable.
Don’t know if this was posted here previously and I missed it, but here’s a good anti-mask piece written in September by the same man who wrote the piece on government manipulation linked by Will above the line today:
FIVE GOOD REASONS NOT TO WEAR A MASK
Glad to see his top reason is the same as mine – it promotes fear. And fear is the mind-killer.
But leggy below mentioned that he recently encountered the argument that masks reduce the intensity of covid (via reducing viral load, with Japan’s high prevalence and low fatalities as the example), and I noticed the Daily Telegraph article yesterday included the assertion that:
“there is evidence the virus has lost up to 90 per cent of its lethal potency owing to mass wearing of masks”
This appears like it might be the next hot front in the panickers’ ongoing war against all that’s good and decent.
They started coming out with that rubbish shortly after the mandate and when the argument that they actually stop transmission was looking distinctly shaky. In addition to the “masks are why deaths aren’t climbing, even though “case” numbers are” idiocy you mention, it’s also a particularly obvious example of doublethink, in that the thinking almond mask fanatics and immunity deniers seems to be masks encourage milder infections and so will actually help us get to herd immunity less painfully, even though there’s no such thing as herd immunity because measles.
https://themodelhealthshow.com/maskfacts/.
This is a long video but gives an amazing amount of information …. who knew that you can fit hundreds or thousands of viruses into a single bacteria cell? And a bacteria cell is 1/40th of the size of a hair ? Obviously they come out of the sides, the bottom of masks.
Cloth masks are the worst type of mask. The research into medical mask wearing in modern surgical settings finds that even they do NOT protect from wound infections. It is also damning about wearing masks for long periods which basically creates ‘a wet micro habitat‘ especially bad for children.
Therefore contrary to what’s being said masks are part of the problem not in any way a solution.
This is an extract from a piece published in today’s Spectator, titled – “the path between herd immunity and lockdown by Philip Thomas who is effectively arguing for a middle ground between the two:
How can this third way be achieved? The key is to control what the epidemiologists call the ‘basic reproduction number’ or R0-value, which is the average number of people in a fully susceptible population someone with Covid-19 infects before recovering.
Irrespective of the position someone might take on Thomas’s views, what really annoys and troubles me is the use of the term “a fully susceptible population”. There is now a swathe of evidence suggesing that this assumption is completely inaccurate. Populations are not fully susceptible because they have prior immunity through previous exposure to simiular viruses. This position, which is endorsed by Mike Yeadon and others, is supported by papers such as this one – “Covid-19: Do many people have pre-existing immunity?” published in the BMJ. Yet we here very little about this in the mainstream media who prefer to tell us how few of us have anitbodies to this virus – which may be becaiuse our immune systems are efficient enough not to need them. Instead the idea that we are all “at risk” continues to circulate but more concerningly justifies and maintains the idea that lockdowns need to be imposed. I am sick and tired of this crap and though I live in tier 3 area will not be following the government’s rules.
Once again trying to create division by caricaturing the population as either lockdown forever or “letting it rip” no matter how many grannies die. Infuriating. Lots of reasonable people have been arguing for a middle ground for a long time now.
When I put on the radio I hear the government and sage side of the story.
Deadly virus – lockdown – wear masks test test test casescasescases stay safe Moto Moto Moto ad nauseam..
But never a dicky bird about past years flu fatalities, nothing about the Av age of the 2020 covid fatalities, nothing to say its not dangerous to children and healthy people under 65 (proven by the Italian deaths data released at the end of March).
Data means NOTHING in isolation!
This is what the TV viewering brainwashed masses do not realise. They think a high number of cases means more danger to them..Oh no lockdown..fear fear fear fear
However spend sleepless nights for weeks on end listening to people who were once revered as the most experience epidemiologists in the world like John Ioanides, Wolfgang Wodarg and Sucarit Bhakti now being labelled as RW Conspiracy Theorists’s so getting their videos pulled down one after another.
There are at least 3 main narratives
theres the covid is very dangerous and deadly one
theres the covid is not as dangerous or deadly as we first thought one
theres the covid 19 does not exist one
Now, if it wasn’t for the MSM downright lies and propaganda and the halfway housers scared of losing their jobs then there is no question that people like Johnson, Witty, Hancock and the rest would be up in court facing many years in prison for corruption or perhaps gross negligence manslaughter
London numbers are impressive. Also noticeable is the inquisative nature of other people on thre streets, yes a large volume of rational people are calling out the government destructions.
Protest has taken 15 mintues so far to file through Trafalger Sq. 12 or so abreast.
Pipes are being played, music, cheering chanting, flags as they head on down whithall.
People on tourist buses clapping at the crowds.
And the weakly met officers are not festooned in latex gl9ves – just the idiotic, lunatic masks.
Protest soon to be arriving at Westminster.
https://youtu.be/-3xAYTP_5Zg
White crap hat police just arrive – mask and mirrored sun glasses worn by one goon.
You tube has just cut my stream and told me the Ruptly video of the london protests requires age verification – I need to sign in to view.
Mine suddenly stopped and says “this video is private”
Yes, mine too.
Last scenes were a large crowd right outside New Scotland Yard, asking to speak to someone…..
The Police guarding the place were looking extremely uncomfortable, and I think I saw one official looking chap in military uniform taking a close interest….
Anyone have a working feed ?
Protest live feed pulled down midnstream.
Is this a good sign? The narrative can’t stand up to reality without censorship?
Note : there was no commentary to this feed, just a view of things through a lens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gYZ5ns2SaY
Best I can find
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zr1K8hDvXc
Better- from RT ruptly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AADX-CszUA
Sputnik
Not signed in to youtube ruptly channel is not displaying the london protest live thumbnail.
Calchas’s sputnik link is streaming without being signed in or age verified on youtube.
I can see this one.
a couple of dark Blue Territorial Support Unit vans just made a pass. This could get ugly….
TSG changed the mood immediately. Sinister bastards.
if the protestors make reference to police brutality in Nigeria they should be ok .
Cannot see other streams on youtube. The timing coincided with TSG officers in white caps moving without armour into the crowd which appeared to be prevented from moving onwards towards Houses of Parliament.
Basics,
I take it you are there ?
What’s happening now ? The feed seems to be on a loop.
Its on facebook
The message I got was “This video is private”.
Like many other people I have researched my and my wife’s family history.
Look around at the people in high streets everywhere and appreciate the odds all our respective families beat for us to be here.
My wife’s great great grandfather left rural Wiltshire in the mid 19th century when presumably it was “grim down South” to work and live in the hell hole/ satanic mills of the industrial revolution in the West Midlands, no doubt, because half a loaf was better than no terters (potatoes)
He married 3 times, his first wife had 4 daughters then died, his second wife who did not have any children died and his last wife had another 3 children, the youngest being my wife’s great grandfather who married a woman whose grandparents came from rural Gloucestershire, their granddaughter, my wife’s mother now 95 had 2 brothers, one died aged 5 days and the other aged 21.
Please excuse all this waffle but what I am trying to say is: living was,still and always will be dangerous and nobody is sure if they are going to live another day,week or year, whatever their age.
This PATHETIC excuse of a government along with all the so called opposition parties and the advisers and experts should know this and allow the people to make their own decisions on how to live (and die)
Stop these ridiculous,pointless and moreover ineffective lockdowns now and get people back to work and normality.
My family were dissenters in the 17th century. I am proud to say my Dad and I are continuing our family’s trait! Non-conformists for over 400 years and counting …
Yes, in my wife’s family there was a Methodist lay preacher.
Yep have cut the feed. They must be very worried
This not the end of the beginning. It is the beginning of the end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AADX-CszUA
https://www.ruptly.tv/en/events/202010240000-LIVE5177-COVID-19-sceptics-rally-in-London-to-denounce-restrictions
Would strongly recommend the piece mentioned in the Round-up above by Dr Gary Sidley about the government psychologists devising the methods used to ensure compliance in society. This particularly struck me
‘A further disadvantage is that normative pressure is less effective in changing the behaviour of the deviant minority if there is no visible indicator of pro-social compliance rooted in communities. And this is where the BIT specialists delivered their masterstroke: mandatory masking’.
indeed
Absolutely spot on. The slave collar. The striped pyjamas. The clipped ear. The Auschwitz tattoo.
Shocked and angry on Maureen’s behalf by the condescending tone of the presenters in the Good Morning Britain clip. Dr Jarvis in particular should be ashamed of herself, not only for the wildly inaccurate drivel she spouted but also for her smirking, patronising attitude towards Maureen who had kindly agreed to appear and then been subjected to such shabby treatment.
Hope these ‘ladies’ get their comeuppance very soon.
Maureen is wise and generous of spirit. Dr Jarvis, not so much.
Yes, they were both so wise and brilliant. I would have liked to slap that silly Dr Jarvis.
Indeed. If you wear mask DON’T do exercise – you damage your body / brain
Zombies have no brain to damage.
Why should you be required to produce anything. Tell them to fuck off
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54673558 schools closing for years to come ?!?
More shite from Ferguson. Best ignored.
I disagree. With his record, he needs to be heard …
… as a narrative of what not to do. Listen – then do the opposite would be a pretty good rule of thumb.
True. He just makes a fool of himself, so let him continue.
Meanwhile, in Sweden…
Was concerned until who I saw was the author.
Oh FFS can someone please silence that man once and for all? What’s he even got to do with anything any more?!
UK column had a feature on this months ago and said it was the long term plan to have remote learning
Isolated remote learning, at that. A conspiracy to remove women from the work force and shut them up at home supervising it, perhaps. Unpaid.
I believe (quite rightly) that if don’t like wearing a mask then that is a valid reason for exemption.
Simple, ain’t it.
Had to visit a local “retail park” briefly today. Queues outside most of the UK-wide chain stores (PC World, Pet at Home, etc). It’s going to be a miserable lead up to Xmas…However, I’m sure out Dear Leader Ms Sturgeon will save us from the misery of queuing outside Argos in the rain and driving wind by putting the Central Belt into Tier 4, thus closing all the shops.
Indeed, but it’s ok Santa is an essential worker
The fact that she believes she has the right to speak to the children of Scotland about Xmas and Santa is incredible. She’s so taken up with the cult of personality surrounding her.
Yes, she sees herself as some god like figure now.
djaustin would you care to give us a very rough prediction of all-cause mortality between now and say Christmas, based on your analysis and observations?
Christmas is rather close for there to be a dramatic effect – I think it will be detectable given the climbing hospital admissions (at the moment it is about 600/week over the 10-year average). I think this will conservatively double to about 1200/week by Christmas. We won’t actually know until the second or third week in January, as reporting is delayed over the holidays.
A reasonable worst case would be a further 30k excess deaths by March – about half what we saw for April to August. I think that seasonal influenza deaths will be replaced with COVID19 deaths, that improved management will reduce the mortality rate, and that if we really do hit serious NHS overload, further restrictions are likely to contain the growth. That would compare with a bad year for seasonal influenza.
BTW Euromomo only show the past five years data, as they use the five years previous to that to fit a model for Z score estimation. ONS report past five years each week, but have further years on their website.
That’s our strategy too. We have badges but we’ve stopped using them but we do carry a print-out of the government’s S.I in a pocket (we’ve haven’t needed it so far).
We have never worn masks or face-coverings and we have 0 intention of ever doing so. Distressing as it is to be confronted with a mass of zombies in a supermarket, not to mention lone drivers, people outside and children (child abuse), this only strengthens our resolve not to be zombie collaborators.
A couple of people posted yesterday that it feels great not to wear a mask. We both agree with that. We do not feel uncomfortable at all because right is on our side.
You never know how strong you are, until being strong is the only choice you have.
-Bob Marley MW
Walking through town today and across the market, I feel “normal”.
I do and live as I have always lived. Why should I alter my behaviour?
I do not worry about entering shops or coming close to people.
I smile at people and can talk normal as my voice is not muffled.
Correct me if I am wrong, fellow sceptics but concerning testing stations; if you test negative on Monday: so what? you might be positive on Friday so whats the bleedin point?
That remark needs to be censored!
… it hits the nail on the head.
The more times somebody takes the test, the more often they can test positive.
Nicely bumping up the number of ‘cases’.
Nobody counts negatives.
A bit like a car MoT,fine at the moment it passes,could be illegal 10 minutes later.
Absolutely:”This document is no proof of roadwortheness”
Get the scary numbers, of course.
Like the DBS check.
Maybe that’s why the test numbers are so high, many people getting tested over and over (and not only in healthcare setting) as they are brainwashed.
Even if you do test positive, it doesn’t change anything.
Going to Athens, the DM, says its all back to normal
Doesn’ tsound normal to me.
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/greece/coronavirus
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/escape/article-8873441/Visiting-Athens-Buzzing-Greek-capital-new-galleries-festivals-quarantine-free.html
https://www.greece-is.com/know-the-rules-the-a-z-for-tourism-in-greece-in-the-covid-19-era/
masking, distancing,plexiglass etc..
..is not what I call normal.
Greece is just another frickin’ room in the same frickin’ asylum.
I’m a bit confused, if I don’t have any symptoms or illness why do I need to wear a mask to protect someone from not catching an illnes I don’t have.
Sorry, silly me, it’s all part of the ritualistic brainwashing.
Because you may be the one asymptotic person on the planet whose expelled air gets through the other persons muzzle .
Asymptomatic. I registered that mathematical mistake a long time ago.
I always wonder how many people are actually aware that the face covering is supposed to keep the virus in and not protect you from inhaling it?
If it is keeping virus in, why would I wear one and make myself more ill! ?
I saw a chap today with sequins on his fc. How do you wash that?
Just heard something that has said the government are giving the people “one last chance” to avoid a national lockdown. Obviously they can play fast and loose with the numbers for whatever outcome they want. Is there any truth in this or is it just dodgy word of mouth.
Mahyar Live From Anti-Lockdown March
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXVg7YBsAgE
Just headed out to a Garden Centre. Got here and their is a huge cue – outdoors – to enter. I assume due to social distancing and limited numbers. I have refused to cue up and refused to go into store (already refuse masks) my wife and kids have just gone off having adopted a “we drove all this way to go in”. I might be wrong but I refused to be part of this. Mostly older people curing outside in the cold for what reason ? Fucking hell.
I believe the word you intended to use is ‘queue’, not ‘cue’.
DavidC
Queue.
God bless 83 year old Maureen. What pissed me off is that ever smug and all knowing Sarah Jarvis constantly smiling ‘at the poor old dear’. Condescending cow!
My thoughts exactly. Hideous woman.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DrSarahJarvis
In case you get the urge to give her some “feedback” on her “500 times more likely” claim.
Unfortunately not a Tweeter, if anybody else could do so be much appreciated
Done
Thank you
We have just watched the clip again – my son seemed to have a version where Mr Eames responded at the very end (not sure if this was cut from the final online version?) and put the very condescending Dr Jarvis in her place. I really hate these middle class, metropolitan pseudo intellectual women. I have come across far too many in my life, populating medicine and journalism in particular. I can see what they are doing, and I speak as someone who achieved educationally, and from a business perspective, at a much higher level than any of them, accent, class and all. Shame on them. God bless Maureen and her husband for speaking truth to power.
Jarvis has a twitter page. Just enjoyed liking all the negative comments: there were a lot.
But her profile pic, with her head tilted sideways shows empathy
……But you just killed a Granny
I suspect the march will be back bigger and better next week
They must realise that the game is up now
https://brandnewtube.com/watch/chris-whitty-describes-how-mild-the-covid-19-virus-really-is_zZrVOIRmp1I26rZ.html
We need a link to download that video
i went direct to Gresham College YouTube you will see at the beginning of the lecture Whitty states that in six months more will be known and much of what he says will be superseded. Get out of jail free card
Matt Wankcock will be around to let you know you killed his made up granny.
It would be interesting to speak to his granny.
Why do I get a perverse satisfaction when talking to a lockdown zealot/covid fanatic and inform them of some part of lockdown measures we’re not following?
Out walking the dogs earlier we bumped into – not literally obviously as they gave us a very very wide berth – a family we know from our little valley. Haven’t seen much of them this year as early on they were quite clearly terrified of the virus, despite being a couple in their late thirties with a 10 year old kid, and would be obeying lockdown rules to the absolute letter. Anyway exchanged a few pleasantries today then the wife said something about us having a nice relaxing next two weeks at home in lockdown (we’re in Stalag Wales). My OH immediately said, oh no, we’re not bothering with any of that this time, I’ll be going out to work as normal, got loads of work on. I jumped in with ‘yeah he hates working from home because we annoy each other too much’. The wife sucked in her lips like she’d swallowed a lemon. She didn’t say another word and off they went, no doubt cursing the both of us and blaming us for killing some Granny somewhere. But why did it feel so good?
Side note – I do feel sorry for their young lad. Seeing your parents terrified and cowering at that age must be so damaging mentally and for his development as he gets older. At that age I believed my parents could do anything, solve everything and keep me safe.
Why can’t people like that just sit in their houses, order Tesco deliveries for the rest of their lives and let everyone else get on with it?
I know I know, killing grannies.
And grandad’s, lets keep it pc
My parents could and did.
Fuck the Stalinist lockdown. No more kowtowing.
Children’s clothes are essential:
https://twitter.com/JackieGoode5/status/1319963010870484993
Superhero!
Wonderful, sign him up.
Annue’s gold medal!
This is an appeal on behalf of British MPs
https://twitter.com/mi6rogue/status/1319525341615017987
Fantastic!
Brilliant – thanks for posting!
Can we set up a crowd funding page for them?
Haha nailed it!
Saw Save out Rights footage of the march earlier. Lots of people and super noisy. Feed lost unfortunately.
Live footage now from Stand Up X: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2sd8V59Y60&fbclid=IwAR0Sy6YB6Rku1oew4baiRaoGr6yq8d-W6dm4p5wfrWOUX9bIi9jbo0-NBas
Just want to express my gratitude to all who are taking part.
Went to local pub last night with my mate. We started outside and then moved in to a table. Staff were fine with us and know we’re from different households. Fuck this Tier 2 shite that makes you feel like a criminal and that you’re threatening a local business even as you’re supporting them. Pub was quite busy with mostly couples, but half full for a Friday night. You can feel the simmering resentment among the punters, half of us hoping the police would turn up so we could tell them to fuck off and go and arrest some real criminals. I’m normally a mild mannered, law abiding citizen, but this is what’s happening to us.
Absolutely true. I haven’t broken the law / regulations yet but when I need to I will. I know enough people who have already done so and I say well done.
A pub, what’s that???
Good work btw
I abide by law.
Not tinpot tyranny.
Afternoon, all. Just finished my first shift as a Covid Marshall!
Did you borrow that from Peter Hitchens?
Jeremy Vine again linking to a LS article:
https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1320007529313742849?s=20
Lots of good sceptical response!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IXVg7YBsAgE
Mahyar Live From Anti-Lockdown March
Terrible sound initially but improves after 1 minute or so.
Earlier live video that was linked here was removed.
This was posted about 16 minutes ago.
PsyOps
Social Engineering Is in Full Swing
The technocratic system also requires social engineering, which relies on massive data collection and the use of artificial intelligence. Technocrats have silently and relentlessly pushed this agenda forward ever since the 1930s, and signs of its implementation are becoming increasingly visible.
In a few short months, we’ve been dramatically shifted from a state of freedom to a state of totalitarianism, and the way that was done was through social engineering, which of course involves psychological manipulation.
Censoring and propaganda are but two strategies that shape and mold a population. Psychiatry professor Albert Biderman’s “chart of coercion” also includes the following methods, all of which can be clearly related to the COVID-19 response:
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/10/24/securing-obedience-through-fear.aspx
Excellent!
So our own democratic government is allowing this, other governments are not. People are waking up to what they are pushing us into
I wouldn’t assume that other governments are not doing the same sorts of things.
When does it become legal to use force to overcome this oppression?
Remains me of Lenin mocking the Germans. Hr said:
“Before they storm a railway station during a revolution they first buy platform tickets”
If you are being attacked you have a legal right to a proportionate defence.
The manner in which you defend yourself needs to be aligned in your Spirit – in my view, such as to use force as last resort and to bring the conflict to a process of communication.
If you are in no position to use force, you may withdraw cooperations such as to say NO in whatever means or withholding of cooperation is available to you.
To defend your Spirit is to maintain alignment in Spirit or if your prefer the term ‘conscious alignment in Purpose’. Bear in mind subjection and captivity in the world is not a new thing.
Never before has so much been owed to so many, by so few.
2 million “vulnerable”, 65 million therefore not vulnerable.
Just read Jamie Franklin’s posting on today’s update. Made me cry. We’re in danger of forgetting the most precious things ghat make life worth living. I feel so, so very sorry for the young who won’t even have these memories to look back on. And that simply enraged me. I don’t think I can forgive those imposing this misery , particularly as they have the same data as I do. No one is following any science, just doubling down to save their own political skins. Despicable. Felt slightly better by donating to the Welsh Gyms cause.
I just logged on in order to share the same link as Victoria – essential, if utterly chilling reading: https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/10/24/securing-obedience-through-fear.aspx#commentfocus
Mercola certainly has a lot of alternative products to sell on his website and Is highly controversial – put me off
Well he’s been going for years and a lot of what he recommended back then is now fairly mainstream, eg fermented products being good for the microbiome. And yes, he does the whole American hard-sell number – which is why I ended up unsubscribing from his newsletter years ago. BUT that doesn’t detract from his laudable work exposing the Great Reset case.
I will say 2 things about Mercola: 1) I have bought things in the past and I’ve always been happy with the products, and 2) he does not restrict access to his site and it’s free for anyone to peruse. He does sell products as a means of keeping his site available to all and there is no pressure to buy anything. He may be controversial, but compared to the skeptical views most of us hold now he is pretty mainstream! As with most sites, we won’t agree with everything but he does provide lots of useful information.
You don’t have to buy anything or even look at his products to evaluate the information – along with innumerable leaders of their fields who he has interviewed. The information is made freely available.
I am from the UK where adverts, marketing and selling is targetted to ‘healthcare professionals’ and the NHS so we are insulated from awareness of market forces but NOT from the consequence of market forces – and the covid ‘controversy’ certainly has market forces within its active expression.
If you suckle the medical mainstream then you have been delivered unto evil. You will deeply desire ‘alternatives’ to the trap being prepared for you.
On the other hand, there will be no controversy in the Church of the Virus.
So maybe this new religion is for you?
Mercola may be a ‘health nut’ for ‘health nuts’ – but he is open minded rather than pharmaceutically framed.
Was there anything in the article linked that made you ‘smell a rat’ or deceit?
Or which you can state a case to counter?
Obedience training is conditioning the target to accept and follow orders rather than think for themselves. At one end of the scale you can be trained as a soldier in the Program – and at the other you can be conditioned to slavery and subjection. But they are both slaves to fear.
This is a typical statement made by the forces that want to censor him labelling him as controversial and referring to his ‘audacity’ to sell products – and you are repeating it. Shame on you!!
No income, no free health information. No advertisements on his site. No request for donations. None of his articles refer to any of his products. In fact, many people that comment on his articles do not even know that he sells products.
All his articles are properly referenced. Many of his articles over the years have been highlighting the same issues as what we get from lockdownsceptics (LS) on a daily basis. LS depends on donations to survive. No-one can survive without money.
This twat Llewelyn can go on the list
The police in Wales now have a power to enter your home by force even if they only think you might be about to break the regulations
Outrageous
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54672947
Someone has to judicially review this – remember right of family life ( and privacy ) is a human right. Are we now pursuing thought crimes? Is Drakeford trying to outdo 1984? People of Wales – WAKE UP!! Can you believe my brothers in Wales reporting that up to now they thought he was adopting a ‘ measured approach’. FFS
Minority Report.
Britain’s Victoria.
They had it in the last incarceration too. Don’t think it was used.
Gross , damnable violation of common law and human rights. . Let them try. Let their name stink for eternity.
PS. I notice that all BBC Wales news stories now forbid comments. The sceptical ones were stacking up. Couldn’t risk it.
Well, the BBC is effectively The Guardian of television, so it’s only to be expected. Funny how left-wing organs are very much into censorship.
Soon they’ll arrest anyone for thinking about leaving sceptical comments
Masks: We think the evidence for harm outweighs the evidence for benefit (if there is any) or think that someone needs to provide evidence they do work before we undertake a medical intervention.
But let’s say that it could be established they DID work, and let’s say they amazingly stopped the spread of flu and covid or whatever. At what point would people feel that compulsion was acceptable?
Never
Precisely. If there was a lethal virus doing the rounds, I would be wearing a military grade respirator when I left the house, not an old sock.
The fact that thousands of people have been dying every year of infectious diseases at least as dangerous as covid (ie colds, flu, pneumonia) that will be passed on in a similar way and no one has ever thought that wearing masks might help until now confirms to me that the whole masks issue is just a political thing.
I still remain confident that no proper study by a neutral organisation will come to conclusion that, outside of certain hospital situations, the benefits of wearing masks outweighs the potential health issues.
Oh yes indeed – my question is hypothetical. It’s a similar question to whether some kind of legally enforced “lockdown” would ever be justifiable, in the face of a truly deadly pandemic.
Regarding masks, I am really trying to gauge views on the value people place on the freedom to have an uncovered face, avoid the health side effects of masks, and the psychological aspect.
If it were truly deadly. I would still take my chances and go maskless. I like breathing too much. I’ve just been sat in a room with 12 others (all of whom were muzzled) . They all appeared to be completely brainwashed, borderline nuts and all a little concerned for my ‘safety’. It was pretty hilarious.
Yes, I have still never worn a mask. As well as my confidence that I am not killing any grannies by not doing so and personally it’s healthier not to as a christian there are various bible verses that describe covering faces as a negative thing and throughout history they have been used as a punishment eg Jews in WW2, prisoners at Gauntanamo etc.
I have tried wearing a mask in so far as I now know the problems. Trying to find my way round Tesco with steamed up glasses then struggling (and out of breath) outside trying to distangle them from my hearing aids was enough for me to realise they are a bad idea so back to my lanyard now.
Just now family heading towards Tesco already masked up in the pouring rain. Then a chap driving from our estate masked up alone in his car. Nonsense but somehow they feel it is their duty…
Well I’ve worn a mask earlier today. A proper sealed filter job, for sanding resin. If I didn’t and that shit got into my lungs/bloodstream I’d be fucked. So, yeah if benefits outweigh the harm.
“let’s say that it could be established they DID work, and let’s say they amazingly stopped the spread of flu and covid or whatever. At what point would people feel that compulsion was acceptable?“
I’d say there’s a basic three step process to deciding to implement any major coercive policy (this is what the government should have gone through prior to lockdown as well):
So in the hypothetical situation you set out, step 1 is complete and they would move on to step 2, at which point mass coercive mask wearing would imo fail because it promotes fear, which is arguably the single most costly and dangerous thing in this coronapanic.
Finally it would fail step 3 anyway, because ending the spread of covid19 isn’t important enough to impose coercive and intrusive rules on everyone.
Three points. Even if masks work (unlikely) they need to go. The pandemic ends when masks come off and can’t end until masks come off. Any thinking person now understands that the pandemic response is far worse to the world than the virus itself. In other words, masks equal fear which prolongs the pandemic which furthers the worldwide destruction we are causing. This needs to be our fight, not whether or not masks work.
Second,we are screwing up (de-training) our immune systems. If we reduce our body’s ability to fight normal viruses, and then if what used to be a normal (less lethal) virus does get through the mask, we will be much more prone to serious illness and death. I fear this is happening now to young children, who’s immune systems aren’t being trained properly.
Thirdly, we are vastly underestimating the downsides of masks, including the loss of normal humanity and human interaction (smiling, communication, etc.) I would argue compulsion is not worth destroying humanity for ANY lethality. Saying there is no downside to masks (which almost all pro-mask people say) is the equivalent of saying that water-boarding isn’t torture (because it doesn’t risk life or cause long-term physical damage). For most of us, masks are literally torture.
I realise few people on this site wear masks, but I’d encourage people to send there used masks to Johnson. No stamp required.
Great idea. I’ve been wondering what to do with the literally dozens of face nappies I find when out walking.
Would be an excellent idea if a mask was worn.
In 2005, a one man campaign in Ireland led to 400 nappies (unused) being sent to the Government in protest at legislation which banned below cost selling. Co-incidentally, the relevant government minister was Micheál Martin, who is now the Taoiseach!
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/unhappy-pappies-post-the-nappies-to-minister-25970644.html
Don’t touch them! You’ll die or kill someone else!
Still a conspiracy theory?
Incompetence!
Nothing more…
Nothing at all. Just a plain old fashioned bungle….
Trying to cover up their bungling by pretending there’s some big plan.
That’s reverse ferret cunning! I like the thinking!
Wanksock was on about it back in 2017.
Yet still 90% of the numpties in the UK would need this nailed to their forehead before they finally GET IT!
Yes, especially the made up stuff people like to add to it, or wild speculation lightly disguised as fact.
Elaborate.
We’re all meant to care about the planet. I don’t give two fucks about the planet. Burn the motherfucker to the ground, sook all the petrol we can find out the earth and burn it in my 1400 Kawasaki. Who really gives two fucks about what happens in the Sudan or in some pisshole country in central America? Who gives a shit about the French, sure we need to watch them and the Germans, these fuckers still haven’t forgiven us for beating their ass over and over again, that and how we make great music and the Germans and the french don’t. But i don’t want to be part of the one world bullshit. These people are insane with their Spectre levels of world domination.
Lots of people have spent their entire working lives doing ‘horizon scanning’, strategic planning, and suchlike, often trying to foretell the future for the benefit of businesses. Like Shell, for example. Hardly surprising if they call some trends right. But that’s not a conspiracy to make them happen.
TSG with helmets have arrived in trafalger sq there are tiny numbers of lefter over criwd chatting, maybe 100 people. TSG arrive in a group with helmets off. It appears a mob of 50 normal hat police are slow walking the people out of the squate.
Sputnik showing tsg have made an arrest there is no protest or semblance of one happening in any fashion. The police are all over the square standing in groups looking like idiots.
That’s what the police do best these days.
Another man now stopped and surrounded by police tsg. Cuffed. Possible false beard? Maybe in breach of an order? Now a lady is having her back pack thought about by police… she is marched off by police.
A lady who I saw close to peirs corbyn earlier now walked off in clutches of police.
My question is why did people hang around? The protest was long over. Just a few groups chatting to each other remain when the 400? Tsg and other police arrived. Police now appear to be leaving.
SORUK claiming no arrests – seems that might not be accurate?
I think they’d already left.
On the last video, Louise said that the protest was over and people were drifting away with just a few groups still hanging around chatting. No sign of the SPG then.
400 does sound somewhat excessive!
Looks a good turnout from the tweets etc I’ve seen. Well done everyone.
It was really big as it marched through Trafalger Square onwards at about 1.30pm. Thousands. 15 mins of continuous at least to get through the square.
Basics. How would you say it compares to previous events?
The march was big… i could not get an idwa of scale other as I say at least 15 mins to get past nelsons column perhaps 10 abreast. I didn’t see the end of the procession. The march appeared to fragment in some way on the embankment at the first point of tsg contact when the ruptly stream ended. Did the police prevent the numbers from getting any closer to HoP? A smaller group made short speeches outside the cathedral.
The march was the central point from my point of view. I heard non of the speeches.
Thanks Basics, much appreciated.
The cowards only come out when the vast majority of demonstrators have gone home
No hitting defencless women with batons this time
That is because they would have got their heads kicked in
The fact that they are now hiding at the height of the demo is positive
Yes – it was patently obvious that the only public nuisance was caused by the police acting like a gang of football hooligans harassing and assaulting members of the public.
Police in attendance at HoP suppose protestor related. Though cannot see any. Sputnik stream ends.
Thanks for the updates, much appreciated for those of us not there
Look forward to the day when Johnson Hancock Sturgeon Khan and Drakeford are held accountable for the misery they are held accountable https://www.remove-the-tory-government.org
Held accountable with hemp.
The Welsh dragon is unleashed: Furious Tesco shopper tears away plastic sheets and asks how children’s clothes are ‘non-essential’ in run-up to winter under Wales’s ‘disgraceful’ Covid rules
Gwilym Owen (inset right), 28, last night ripped down covers in Tesco in Bangor (centre and right), where staff had hidden items deemed not important by the government (left). He shouted: ‘Since when have clothes been exempt?, rip the f***ers off… kids’ f***ing clothes, it is a disgrace.’ A security staff member approached Mr Owen and he replied: ‘Since when has clothing not been essential.’ The store worker, who was wearing a face covering, confronted him over an F&F label stall while the cameraman ran away from another employee. First Minister for Wales Mark Drakeford (inset left) plunged the country into a draconian ‘firebreak’ lockdown at 6pm yesterday and it is expected to wreck the Welsh economy. Under the move, which will last 17 days, people have to stay home and leave only for a limited reasons, including exercise, buying essential goods or to provide care.
***************************
Magnificent front page from the DM!
Gwilym Owen, we salute you! (See him in action at the DM link).
We salute you national hero
My heeero.
Saw a comment that there should be naked protests as clothes are clearly not essential in Welsh supermarkets.
Naked protests would have been more popular in April!
I just wonder why the supermarkets don’t just turn an eye to such a daft edict.
You may well wonder. Effing crawlers.
BBC praised them for ‘working very hard’ to cover everything up.
I’d buy that man a drink!
I was on the comments section of that article for ages adding my 2p. As usual, always look at the Best Rated comments. Hundreds of them calling him a hero or equivalent without the silly boy nonsense of that one comment.
Good man, great to see.
Well done – heroes standing up
Here in Tarn, south west France, all bars have been instructed to close. Which means there a lot of new restaurants serving drinks with rolls etc which take 2 hours to eat ( at least), but you have to sit down, otherwise covid will get you. Also sound or visual entertainment is limited to the morning hours only, which seems to being ignored given the live entertainment at some of the ‘new’ restaurants. Names and mobile numbers being kept for 15 days before being ‘destroyed; interesting how many old UK mobiles appearing.
I am trying to stay positive, but ths is social engineering, it has bugger all to do with a virus.
Covid proof rolls. Sound like lumuns (sp) bread to me, magical stuff!
Has anyone read or listened to Ted Kaczynski’s manuscript on Youtube? A friend of mine reccomended and he was right in saying “Covid does seem to fit nicely in his projections”.
https://youtu.be/ocvSFObG37c
Indeed
I’ve got a Unabomber T shirt, it’s made from Hemp. lol
Can’t say i agree with his tactics, although he does make a point about it “being lost” had he not have done so.
Controversial, but the guy is a genious.
Gwilym Owen: Hero of the fight back.
Advice from the fearless leader
Nice one!
Actually in one sense it is quite true to say the economy has been prioritized over lives…
…vulnerable lives and livelihoods – and the simple joys of life for millions- are being mercilessly tossed aside to make way for the new ‘green’/reset/fourth industrial revolution economy.
Brilliant. Except it should read: Prioritise the NHS above lives.
Complicate for profit, simplify for results.
In terms of vaccine creation. Is it important to have the virus structure isolated? Without isolation it would seem very difficult to prove the connection between dna fragments, infection, and caused symptoms.
Without the viron being isolated how is it possible to accurately target the design of the vaccine?
I feel I must be missing a large part of the puzzle, but given where the world is I don’t feel I am overly stupid for asking. Can anyone fill in my understanding please.
The part you’re missing looks like this:
£$£$£$
and sounds like this:
kerrrrrrchinggggg
Then again, being familiar with your posts, I doubt you’ve missed anything.
The part of the puzzle that is missing is that you persist in claiming that the SARS-Cov-2 virus has never been isolated and that its genetic structure has therefore never been elucidated.
There are hundreds if not thousands of papers in the scientific literature that report on aspects of the isolation and genetic sequencing of the virus. Let me point to just one of them Variant analysis of SARS-CoV-2 genomes which I found after a cursory search, and which states
Now I suppose it is possible that you don’t believe any of these claims, but these claims certainly exists and it’s becoming really rather unlikely that you are unaware of them. In which case, may I suggest that you modify your stance at least to the point of saying that there are thousands of people who claim to have isolated and sequenced the virus but that you don’t believe any of them because … .
Just saying it’s never been done with this faux-naif air of puzzlement is not helping your case let alone that of your fellow sceptics.
I guess what they are after (would be more satisfied with) is the description of the actual isolation process and the approach that then led to a genome being uploaded into the database(s), rather than just a reference to genomes/databases as the starting point:
Their concern being that the genome has been, to a greater or lesser extent, mostly inferred from or extrapolated from existing coronavirus database entries or models, rather than being truly sequenced from scratch from patient samples. (Thus potentially leading to subsequent PCR methodologies, inspired by those database sequences, responding to protein spikes not necessarily specific to a particular “novel coronavirus”. That, I think, is their actual argument.)
That would hardly be consistewnt with papers such as Isolation and rapid sharing of the 2019 novel coronavirus (SARS‐CoV‐2) from the first patient diagnosed with COVID‐19 in Australia which states
That seems to me a positive assertion firstly that the whole genome was sequenced from a single patient sample and secondly that this particular coronavirus had an almost identical genome to others in the database; implying thirdly that the existing database contained correctly sequenced whole genomes too.
My guess is that the underlying cause of this debate is to try to promote the notion that the PCR test in fact detects fragments of a wide variety of coronaviruses, due to an invalidly constructed genomic database. That is inconsistent with what this paper claims, and I emphasise that this is simply the first one I came across in a casual search.
I’m not sure it’s correct to say that the “cause of the debate” is a desire to promote a pre-conceived position of “PCR can’t tell between coronaviruses”, although that would one concern that might follow if it were true that the sequences in the database weren’t particularly trustworthy, were inferred rather than independent, etc.
(I’m sure there are some who are just scrabbling for supporting arguments for an attractive position though.)
It’s more that it seems unclear to people.
The paper chase tends to go somewhat round in circles: in the paper you linked to, for example, they use the Wuhan-Hu-1 reference genome for alignment during assembly. Countries like the UK and USA never have isolated the virus themselves, as far as I know; they just use the Chinese sequences, which might be of varying quality and/or ultimate independence.
These elements are the root of the doubt some readers express, and it’s hard to say “this is the paper that answers that and this is how that information leads to PCR test reliability” to them.
My own view is that it doesn’t ultimately matter very much: the quality of the sequences doesn’t magically make PCR tests more or less appropriate for diagnostic purposes, nor does it make PCR tests appropriate for mass surveillance and a good basis for public health measures.
Thanks again for clear analysis.
It is a paper chase – and as my op stated in the context of 2020 and Long Covid it is right to question what perhaps appears ‘a given’.*
I have stated before the actual viral detail is a minor part of the entire story.
*as a single easily researched example WHO Country by country data shows clearly that Influenza has been eradicated worldwide, exception Cambodia.
Science has been found out this year as an industry. It is absolutely right to question everything.
Get out of it with my guess BS richard – fucking critising my question and you come back with my guess. Bollocks to you man.
Thank you Arkansas for interpreting my questioning. This is exactly what I would have written if able.
Yes, it’s hardly a secret.
Hi Richard it my pleasure to read your grumpy as fuck post. Thank you. It is clear your brain is twice the size of mine and you are at least ooh four times the human as I. Thank you for graciously stooping to my low level.
If you would be so kind could you take time out of your day to listen to Dr Kevin Corbett who suggest the viron has not been isolated and described.
Here’s the link
https://youtu.be/GyDl2i_Mbdw
If it’s all the same to your good self I take whatever you say with a richard pinch of salt just purely based on your superior attitude.
The study in China you mention took samples from 6 patients or was it 8 did not process the material fully and declared a new virus. Good for you that you are 100% understanding.
Genome sequencing isn’t what I asked about. I am interested to learn about the actual structure and how that produces infection that causes the symptoms as advertised in every infomercial going.
.
Clearly being a twat is just a waste of effort.
It makes me laugh when these idiots say the virus had never been isolated. Scientists have been building a genetic database of every animal, plant, bacteria, virus they can get their hands on for many years. Isolating and genetically sequencing DNA and RNA is a standard process. Here’s a database of SARS-cov-2 where it had been sequenced 170 pages of results since January in labs around the world. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/virus/vssi/#/virus?SeqType_s=Nucleotide&VirusLineage_ss=Wuhan%20seafood%20market%20pneumonia%20virus,%20taxid:2697049
Agree 100% !
Forgive me I cannot see where it has been isolated in the link above.
Are various DNA sequences enough to design a vaccine from? In the old days the actual virus was needed for live atenuated.
How do you feel about those sequences causing the broad range of symptoms and illness including long covid. Frankly to me it’s very much akin to being asked to believe a truth on the skakiest of ground.
Basically, yes.
There are three types of traditional vaccine:
Subunit vaccines: consisting of only some components of the virus
Inactivated vaccines: essentially a “dead” virus
Live virus vaccines: rely on the use of viruses with reduced pathogenicity.
In all cases the idea is to stimulate an immune response so that when the real thing arrives the body immediately recognises it and can deal with it.
Most viruses will be readily dealt with by the immune system, but the immune system has to recognise them first.
That is the problem, when the body encounters something it has never seen before it does not immediately see danger and the pathogen can become established.
Thanks John, I am aware of the 3 kinds of vaccine plus the 4th RNA newest type. Is a DNA sequence of a virus enough to base a vaccine design on? I would imagine the immune response is critical to the vaccine – can a DNA sequence be used to reliably trigger and modify the immune response? It obviously is being attempted.
Because they have brains you fucking dimwit
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54538558
Professor Fay Short. What an idiot. Clearly you are not allowed to question or disagree with the rules in her world.
I do like those signs (not), that implore men to stay 2m from women, and vice-versa.
Because some of us are still human. Christ almighty! (Not intended as blasphemy.)
Once again, no comments allowed on that story. I wonder why?
Us Welshies must arrange to meet and HUG. Any suggestions for when and where?
I would come! Feeling really isolated and lonely in deserted West Wales. Should all those in favour arrange this on the forum or by email?
In five months it’ll have been a whole year, and probably we’ll still be here with no end in sight.
AN INTERNAL DIALOGUE
Boris: Well here we are then, we made it at last – PM, master of all we survey, what are you going to do with this new found power?
Boris: I’m going to shag everything that moves!
Boris: Goes without saying of course, but will that cut it for you? Will that make you one of the great PM’s of all time? What about your boyhood hero – Churchill?
Boris: Oh yeah, the great Winston, what a man. Maybe I could take up smoking cigars?
Boris: Do me a favour. You would look even more of a dick than you do now and probably set light to your hair.
Boris: There is that, so what then? Winny was a wartime PM, this is peacetime.
Boris: Well, there are precedents – Maggie and Argentina, Tony and Iraq.
Boris: But the real enemies now are China and Russia, I couldn’t declare war on them could I, we’d be annihilated.
Boris: Well no you couldn’t do that of course, but what about something closer to home?
Boris: But I am already at war with the EU, that is what got me elected.
Boris: Closer than that even?
Boris: I don’t get you.
Boris: What about Great Britain? No massive logistic costs, easy to win, just get the media on your side and Bob’s your uncle.
Boris: Are you mad?
Boris: You aren’t thinking this out are you. invent some kind of a threat – a bit like WMD – and start fighting against it – you won’t need cigars boyo.
Boris: Hey, I am beginning to get it now, you mean some imaginary threat.
Boris: Exactly.
Boris: I could make all those sombre speeches in parliament and on TV – “We shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight in the air, we shall defend our island whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall fight in the nightclubs and the gymnasiums and the theatres and the supermarkets, and we shall never surrender” Wow, I like this a lot.
Boris: You’ve got it now, you’re on a roll, and of course you can get the police and media to do the actual fighting for you while you carry on with your shagging plan.
Boris: Man Oh Man!! This is a win, win! I’ll get gongs, approbation, fame and maybe even a state funeral at the end.
Just one thing though what kind of a threat can I invent?
Boris: Do you expect me to do all your thinking for you, what about some kind of a disease nobody has ever heard of before?
Boris: Great idea, I’ll ask Hapless Hancock to make one up for me, he’s supposed to be the health secretary isn’t he?
Boris: You’ve got it, get the others to do the work for you and if it goes wrong you can blame them.
Boris: You mean this could go wrong?
Boris: No chance, just go for it.
Boris: I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna be Churchill 2 – and no cigars – apart from the one I’ve got in my trouser pocket just thinking about it.
Many a true word is said in jest!
That’s brilliant. Best thing I’ve read for a long time! Thanks !!!
I’ll copy it to a few people who I know will appreciate it, LOL.
Good protest march today, marred a little towards the end when the police decided to break it up. Done with more tact from the police then in former protests.
Back to the Gulag now. Well, later tonight. Train back south to collect car, then the drive back to Wales
The bastards let you out, then?
I snuck out yesterday afternoon
“Done with more tact from the police then in former protests”
Less violence, perhaps – but still egregious thuggery from what I saw.
Can only speak from what I saw, Rick. Will catch up with the vids tomorrow :0))
Thanks for being there!
Yw :0))
Having a lovely day in Wales. Drove along deserted roads to the beach, sitting having a butty as plod drives past again (I’m 15 miles from home and clearly not exercising) but no interest from them. Haven’t seen a masked pedestrian or driver all day. All the sheeple seem to have locked themselves up, so there is one positive to lockdowns!
You have a point. Cycling in Pembs was lovely during the last bollox, had the roads to myself.
Silver lining and all that.
Wonder how keen the fuzz really are on crushing us underfoot. BBC site says they expect to find policing the gulag ‘more difficult’ this time. ‘Fucking impossible’ would be my preferred expression.
Have the executioners come for the Welsh Ceausescu yet? I look to the day.
I guess plod is all the border to control no-one gets out or in, or buys none essentials.
They are on their mettle
To stop you buying a kettle,
Or to stop
You getting a new mop.
Hello, hello, hello,
what has we got ‘ere?
You is being charged with being in posession of a mop.
We is moppin’ up you lockdown-breakers.
Some breakers. Some mop.
None on the Wrexham/Shropshire border this afternoon.
I’ll break my rule about gratuitous insults :
You have to be a bit of a prick to wear a mask willingly.
I sat next to him on a flight back from Marrakech and confirm he is a prick.
haha
he must be to advertise for HSBC, a massively criminal drugs money laundering operation…
Mile long protest march along Oxford St.
50,000 – 100,000 people estimated.
Successful, peaceful day.
https://www.facebook.com/SaveOurRightsUK/videos/477049949958913
Great, I’m really encouraged!
Glad you told us ’cause sure as hell the Beeb won’t.
March down Oxford St:
https://www.facebook.com/SaveOurRightsUK/videos/339453524017015
Thank you to all of those there. I cannot physically travel there (without help which I won’t get from my other half), but I really appreciate those of you that made the effort. Thank you again.
Me too. I couldn’t go but was glad so many were able to stand up and be counted.
They’re hoping there will be more local ones before the next biggie at the end of November.
It sounds as if they’ve got much better organised. The request to take noise-makers was a briliant idea and, from what I saw on the videos, made a huge difference.
I talked to various people who also went to the march who said the same thing, along with much support from passing taxi drivers. Onlookers reported to be partially supportive, and a few were spotted removing their own masks.
They all commented on being exhausted, mentally rather than physically.
This time there weren’t any children, no doubt parents having seen the violence from a previous occasion.
Great, thanks!
Though of an appropriate song for the protests..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnJFhuOWgXg
Very apt indeed!
Brilliant news – we done!
Going back to Maureen and Michael on the ITV morning/ daytime programme; at last; 2 people who are obviously intelligent,experienced and immune to the brain dead and moronic drivel that is popular television.
Plastic presenters that are “bubbly”( Christ! how I hate that word) endlessly churning out articles about BLOODY skateboarding ducks,dancing kittens,yummy mummies and daddies,etc.
Is it hardly surprising that people who watch this mind rotting rubbish follow and obey the madness that we have had to endure these last 8 months?
After being initially heartened yesterday, I then went on to read the comments on social media. They got dog’s abuse. Awful, awful people that dish out tonnes of disproportionate stick.
Tom, we must stay optimistic and take heart from Maureen and Michael and Gwilym Owen in Wales.
We must never stop even if it’s only moaning on this platform
Absolutely. Stick it out. Never give in to evil.
Thank you, Annie.
A few who write a lot of comments, same on all boards, to give the impression of a lot of lockdown support.
Paid shills?
Or 77th weekend warriors getting their pocket money topped up.
Well, some of us keep busy countering with anti-lockdown comments. Just spent some time on the Daily Mail site myself. But that’s largely a pleasure these days with all the scepticism being expressed there.
Tom ,What you have to remember is only about 2o% of people are on twitter and from what i hear that is where most of the abuse was .I am not on face book but my sister is and she has about 500 friends and said it was mostly supportive . I think it’s a general class hatred like Brexit, the middle class don’t want a couple of working class yorkshire people challenging the narrative .In the end spiteful comments against pensioners will not get these people anywhere and the sympathy will rightly go towards Maureen and her husband . Those people just showed what makes this country great ,not the Queen ,not the Government but a couple of lowly pensioners from Barnsley .So God (and i’m an atheist )bless them .
Yep, someone was abusing Maureen on a Liverpool FC fans website today. Not done so before there, but felt obliged to wade in.
Unbelievably, someone was telling me about Ferguson’s initial modelling within three posts. Sigh.
I have Qanon logic, apparently.
Please take five minutes to give your feedback to the GP from GMB.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DrSarahJarvis
She is very much deserving of comment for her 500 x more likely comment.
Will do.
TV News just started: the usual rollout of collaborators saying all the “usual” : “We should have gone into a stronger lockdown earlier, platitudes,platitudes,platitudes”
No mention of sceptic anti lockdown protests though.
How surprising – not!
I GOT ATTACKED BY A GOBLIN!
Yesterday I stopped in a local garage to get some diesel for the van. I went in to pay and wore no face nappy. I walked around the mental one way system and there were two cashiers one was busy dealing with another nappy wearer so I went to the other one. I noticed an older lady looking at the shelves and I assumed she was still shopping and not waiting to pay.
EXCUSE ME!
A little lady stood there glowering at me. Thin yellowish grey skin stretched over her angular boney face. A huge black mask almost covering it.
She said You jumped the queue, I was next, she said curtly. Oh sorry I said moving back behind her, I didn’t see you in your face mask.
She didn’t like this one bit. She said can you stand away from me! your not wearing a mask. I said no you move away from me, she said that’s my dot that’s your one back there. I said oh don’t be so stupid, just go an pay and leave me alone.
Then she said to the staff, he isn’t wearing a face mask, you shouldn’t serve him!
I said well I had just put £60 in the tank. She then said she was going to take my registration number call the police and that the staff should not serve me for not wearing a mask.
By this stage I was fucking raging at the sheer injustice or this situation and the cheek of this bitch of a woman. I said to her, look at this and I held out my hands which were visibly trembling, my whole body was shaking with adrenaline.
I am shaking right now recalling this as I type.
I said you are really winding me up here and you would be well advised to stop it right now. Pay the cashier and leave me alone.
By this time the other till had cleared so I went over to it, no she said don’t serve him! He should be wearing a face mask. Call the police! The shop staff then mumbled something to me about wearing a mask the next time I come in.Thankfully the cashier started getting the payment ready and I managed to stop my hand shaking enough to put the card in the machine and type my pin. I then said to her listen the reason I am not wearing a mask is because I am exempt, everybody is. I am not wearing one because they cause me extreme anxiety and distress. The goblin lady then says in a very patronising way, I am very concerned about your condition.
I stared at her beady evil little eyes and said you don’t give a fuck, you bitch. I said if you think wearing a mask helps protect you from anything of it protects anybody from you you are a fucking idiot.
Off I went out the door Saying loudly FUCKING CUNTS!
I normally ask these questions:
No – then it’s none of your business, you have no legal right to question me.
Now starting to think of adding “so fuck right off” at the end.
I know AG I should have said these things. I will try to remember to do so next time. However I was just so surprised at this woman’s behaviour. I was totally caught off guard by it.
Sounds to me like you handled this very well indeed. This thing you interacted with was not human. It will be taking the vaccine, so will be dead within a year.
Her and millions like her. Perhaps Bill Gates is not all bad.
I didn’t handle it that well at all really I could have done way better but I was in such a state it was only going to go one way. In 3 seconds the insanity and the injustice of the last 7 months coalesced into a crystal of hate and anger.
Then your self-control under such provocation is highly laudable!
Only got to this bit, but your misery has made my day!
“she said that’s my dot that’s your one back there.” Just the little things amuse me. Back to angry frown now as I read on!
Absolutely horrible that shaking with adrenaline. As others say you handled the suprise situation excellently. Scummy little upstarts are everywhere, they are not the majority.
I just love it when you get angry! But I know how awful such confrontations are. My set-to with our Covid-fawning rector shook me to the core, but I got over it. So will you. Just enjoy your time in fair Somerset.
What a horrid bitch.Wonder what rotting woodwork she crawled out of.
Thanks Annie, it’s raining and cold outside but its nice and cozy in the van. I couldn’t sleep last night due to the assault by the goblin lady. I am sure I will get over it, just another bit of shit pie to eat.
It does wear off. Honest.
At least you’ll never have to see the goblin again. She’ll be filling a particularly pokey room in hell.
It surprises you just how angry it makes you, doesn’t it? I have found myself much closer to physical violence than I ever would normally be in such interactions, certainly when sober.
It’s a natural response to aggression – and that goblin was being very aggressive.
Yes – the anger has been festering for so long now. Mr CGL is a very mild mannered man (and my impression having met two-six is that he is too) but right now if someone actually challenges him they should expect to lose consciousness at the very least. I wanted to go to London last Sat – he wouldn’t have wanted me to go alone, but felt that he could be very likely to get into trouble of some sort so better to stay away.
The staff overlooked their Duty of Care to you as a customer and, had the woman upset you sufficiently to eg make you have an asthma or panic attack, they would be liable for very hefty fines.
They should have called the police to her, rather than muttering about mask-wearing to you!
“The staff overlooked their Duty of Care to you as a customer “
Oh c’mon … the poor staff are as much victims as anybody. Even if they voted for the Tories
Victims or not, the staff still have a duty of care, that’s final.
I agree the staff are victims but they should be apprised of the law. Many company bosses have a lot to answer for.
Oh sorry I said moving back behind her, I didn’t see you in your face mask.
It must have been a bloody big face mask for you not to see her.
I sympathise, but I find it easier to keep a low profile when shopping without a mask.
i do exactly the opposite . I walk around head high and smile at people -especially toddlers – and engage in conversation with people as usual.
the whole point is to remind people what normal is like
Me too!
Well, that’s fair enough.
Shopping without a mask is nothing to be bashful about. Be barefaced and proud.
Right on. Dare them to challenge you – not verbally, just by your confident look. Ten to one they won’t. Three to one the staff feel sympathetic to you.
Yes John mistake number one. However I think the goblin lady already had her fangs sharpened ready to bite me before I said anything
Similarly on the rare occassion I visit shops I just try to quietly get round as soon as possible, it’s just too depressing.
I entirely empathize with you.
But it’s an illustration of what not to do when faced with the brain-dead. Try to find strategies other than getting wound up – difficult tho’ it is.
Sorry this happened to you Two-Six but it sounds like you dealt with it very well!
Thank you watashi. I could have done better. I am not proud of what happened and how I reacted. Still at least I gave her some shit back and didn’t take her bullshit. In a way I won that one. I got my fuel and stood my ground but I wish I could have been calmer.
You did fine – it was a horrible encounter.
Faith in Quick Test Leads to Epidemic That Wasn’t
?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale
Dr. Brooke Herndon of Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center, shown at left this month, was told last spring that she appeared to have whooping cough.Credit…Jon Gilbert Fox for The New York Times
By Gina Kolata
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/22/health/22whoop.html
Why don’t humans learn from the past??? This should have been an indictment of the PCR test as fit-for-purpose and yet the bleeding test is still dictating government policy. We also should have learned from the rushed Swine Flu vaccine of 1976 and the H1N1 of 2009. I actually read a comment in the WSJ from a doctor whose dad was injured from the 1976 vaccine and will still tell his dad, who is now in his 90s, to take the Covid vaccine. We are a stupid species.
Jeremy Vine becoming more and more sceptical by the day
https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1320031431788285959?s=20
Noticed Sarah Vine is a bit of a sceptic.
Most be interesting in the Gove household
The Slimy Gove knows this is all a major scam.
Biding his time ….
…. which will NEVER come!
I hope you’re right!
Who should we have instead cheezilla? Realistically speaking.
Much as I would prefer the likes of Sir Desmond Swayne or Sir Charles Walker to be Prime Minister I don’t think they are going to get the job.
Realistically, I’ve no idea.
However, I wouldn’t trust any of the current Cabinet as far as I could throw them.
Swayne makes pretty speeches but he actually voted for the Covert Intelligence bill.
Well I wouldn’t call them pretty, but yes, as you point out, he’s still not an ideal person for the job.
She has said on twitter that they don’t hold the same opinions about everything.
I don’t know why you’ve downvoted that Jonathan. I was just repeating what she said. It wasn’t approval.
That’s the massively intelligent journo who didn’t know that ‘Bakewell’ wasn’t just a tart….?
They are a perfectly matched couple.
Some depressing comments on his post though.
Back in the hotel now after the March/demo/causing maximum harassment plod. From earlier:-
‘It was either a brilliant plan or serendipity, but whenever the March stopped, like in Parliament Sq. and the plod started gathering their forces, the March took off again. Out of PS it split in two and half (us) went up Whitehall and the other half went to Buck House then rejoined in Trafalgar Sq. one overweight Bronze Commander next to me was shouting and running round his troops like a headless chicken. Now one lot is off up to Leicester Sq. and police cars going mental. Superb stuff.’
Hung around TS after the remains disappeared and the plod was still playing catch-up. They were not expecting a return to TS – I checked the back streets where the TSG lay in wait last time, and there were sparse parked normal police vehicles.
Compared to the last two big demos, this one was by far the most successful and the police were always behind the drag curve in their response.
If 200,000 turn up next week it will all be over
There were two types of police there, ordinary ones and others in flat caps. What/who are the flat capped ones please?
Baseball caps are TSG guys, so they can swap for riot helmets. I can’t remember which force does which, but City and Met are different forces. One verses peaked hats, the other traditional helmets. In all forces, Inspectors and above wear peaked caps.
The ones with no brains in their heads.
Divide and conquer. A great solution to overbearing police presence.
Good to know. Thanks.
Sent a quick thank you email to Sir Desmond Swayne for his continued impassioned common sense in parliament.
Got a “thanks” back. It may have been from a staffer but it means that he has instructed his team to respond this way.
It’s good to be able to say thank you to someone fighting for the people of the UK.
He usually responds, even if it is very brief. I suspect it comes directly from him.
I think so too
I emailed him too.
I emailed him last month and he replied – it was short but at least it showed that he reads what he’s sent and acknowledges them.
Yes, fair play to the guy, gotta love his style & grasp of the English language! Suspect it’s worth persevering with the rebel &/or back-bench Tories who are clearly sceptical and are starting to stand up, once a few more come forth serious inroads could come quickly… John Redwood too, has made some good points (esp. re: the use of SI, manipulation of the 1984 health act) a few years ago certainly I would not have called myself a fan, clearly now he’s demonstrating he’s a lot smarter than he looks!
Charles Walker too, is rapidly becoming a real standout. I contacted him a while back after one of his impassioned speeches, and got a nice (and personal) reply quite recently to show his appreciation – nice touch from what seems like a classy guy. Also you never know, each message of support if nothing else gets their attention, perhaps it might make them talk to colleagues & contemporaries, and hopefully will galvanize them further…
The guardian is sort of reporting the London march:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/oct/24/coronavirus-live-news-vaccine-trial-restarts-as-cluster-worsens-in-victoria-australia?page=with:block-5f9440258f08c62805b144b5
You have to scroll down and see their live updates from earlier.
Well doen to all who went, I was with you in spirit.
They’ve stuck this up too…
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/24/london-braces-for-fourth-protest-against-covid-19-restrictions
To summarise for those who might feel ill by visiting their site:
“All lockdown sceptics are nasty, horrible, ignorant people who believe everything David Icke and Piers Corbyn say. Look at this picture of one not wearing a mask holding up an ‘anti-vax’ sign near all of those brave police officers. One total twat thiks that 5G (which does chuck out quite a lot of EMF radiation) might stop you from breathing. What a prick. If you know any of these looneys, you should no platform them and inform them that you no longer want to be friends with anyone who is so selfish”
You’re braver than me diving that deep into the comments – the Daily Fail is and enough when the bots, trolls and 77th get going.
They didn’t allow comments on this article funnily enough. I just read it and summarised what I think they’re getting at
Saying that, what I wrote would have probably appeared in the comments (with about 357 thumbs up – they don’t allow thumbs down because it might offend people) if comments were allowed…
The Groan under Viner the whiner and MI6-controlled opiner is an insult to what the Guardian was – generally independent in a meaninful sense.
It’s whinging pleas for financial support for ‘independent’ journalism is a hypocritical joke.
I think they only allow comments on opinion pieces and maybe on the early morning live stream.
However, I haven’t checked for ages. Too depressing!
Yes saw that was posted earlier this morning.
The Guardian also employs sort of journalists. And Simon Jenkins.
They also employ Owen Jones. ‘nuf said.
Received my annual flu jab letter today. It states “please wear a face covering while travelling to and from and during your appointment”. So in November when I walk the mile or so to get my jag probably in pouring rain I am supposed to wear a bit of dripping wet cloth accross my face! Is the NHS in Scotland totally mad?
Is there any doubt?
Yes. Please write them an email and copy it to your MP. Push back. Always push back.
My MP is a totally useless SNP nutter who can be rather rude if you dare to criticise him; a waste of time writing to him.
Probably the same as mine – he’s well known for being a pompous ass.
It’s never a waste. With an email especially so, copy it to his local opponents, SNP head quarters etc and polite remind him he needs to represent your views. That’s his role. Even if he does not agree.
Definitely. Hopefully you’re not mad enough to go get it?
Is anybody in Scotland sane, apart from our folk?
I hope my aunties, uncles and cousins in Scotland are reasonably sane, but my mother does not elaborate on their views when we discuss it.
I am in contact with an auntie and uncle and a cousin up there, but I am a little wary of being completely open with them for fear of offending them if they believe the nonsense.
It’s the same in England. My parents recently had their jabs and my dad had to wear one when he had his radiotherapy treatment in August. He once told me he felt faint wearing a mask while wearing one to go upstairs in hospital. I told him to claim exemption, but he carried on wearing it. He’s something of a sceptic, but I think he reasons that if he goes along with it them nobody will hassle him about it.
John – he needs to telephone ahead of the appointment and tell them he will not be wearing a mask as exempt, and ask if they have any arrangement for that.
Here, one hospital appointment, 2 doctors appointments – never been a problem because I cleared it in advance.
Here are the contacts for every Police Federation in England and Wales.
https://www.polfed.org/about-us/contact-us/
I think an e-mail reminding them “I was just following orders” is not a valid defence and Nuremberg Principle IV applies to those of us who are not complying to the laws that are against our human rights and are crimes against humanity.
Something with these gems in:
“Nuremberg Principle IV – from the UN Principles of International Law Recognized in the Charter of the Nürnberg Tribunal and in the Judgment of the Tribunal 1950:
“The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.”
Nuremberg Principle III – this covers the Police
The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible Government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.
Nuremberg Principle VII – if they stand back and do nothing
Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principle VI is a crime under international law.
https://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/draft_articles/7_1_1950.pdf
Crimes against humanity:
Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhuman acts done against any
civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds
Or in a newer document:
Remember to keep thumbing each other up!!!!!!!! Show you have read a comment!!!!!
Hey, I got power! I upticked you and the total promptly leaped from 19 to 30.
That’s Annie power for you! My strength is as the strength of ten because my heart is not pure, but very, very angry.
Your strength gives us strength
Good piece in the Daily Express on today’s march:
https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1351854/UK-lockdown-rules-covid-19-coronavirus-latest-news-what-is-tier-3-tier-2-tier-1
Yes Express was good but Daily Mail had terrible article
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875257/Thousands-protest-Covid-curbs-capital-including-Piers-Corbyn.html
“Sorry we are not currently accepting comments on this article.”
Quelle surprise…
I had to laugh at the “protesters refused to wear masks” angle.
1) they don’t have to and 2) plenty of the pics they published show people in Trump and V masks!
“The reason being we are too busy deleting anti-lockdown comments on other artices. “
Here’s a picture of Trafalgar Square this afternoon when the protesters had started to disperse. It’s a screenshot from the SORUK video I posted earlier.
Doesn’t look much like the Mail’s account!
Different aspect here :/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875257/Thousands-protest-Covid-curbs-capital-including-Piers-Corbyn.html
Interesting – again it looks as if rogue editing led to the previous front page, which would have been the Dacre the Ball-acher line.
It’s certainly an odd turnaround when the Express starts backing the angels.
Take what’s offered by the gift horse and don’t examine its dentition!
A message from Big Brother
http://stateofthenation.co/?p=26709
spot on!
Please remind me of what country Gates is prime minister/president of. Thanks.
The world apparently
Is that sarcasm or your belief.
Would still like to know.
I don’t know who has downvoted that comment or why. It was a straightforward question.
John – stop being over-sensitive.
Rothschild once said he doesn’t care who makes the laws of a country just give him control of the money supply.Gates doesn’t need to make the laws as he controls the health policy through the WHO and his paid stooges on sage and bought and paid for media.Bbc Guardian and the Telegraph
In your opinion. I don’t give a shit what Rothschild says (or said), his money doesn’t make him an authority on everything.
Gates has no power, only influence.
I’d like to see Gates try to command an army. Is he going to start a war? No.
This obsession you have with him only serves to distract from the people with power. The government.
He doesn’t need to.Money = Power and influence.Enjoy your decade of health brought to you by the Bill &Melinda Gates foundation
Look, I think Gates is a prick, but money does not buy power.
Do you know how naive you sound?
In our godless society money is everything.
Jonathan, I am tired of this.
Money does not buy you everything in this life.
Gates does not have his hand on the levers of power in this country or any other.
He has influence. That is all.
Oh yes it does!
So all of those people/businesses making political donations are wasting their money?
Gleeful Gates
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-aY-h59Gx8
Cheezilla, I am not interested in that prick. He’s not in charge here.
You don’t have to watch it John.
Freedom rules here.
Glad to hear it. I clicked the link, saw what it was about and closed the tab.
I was just giving you my opinion.
Ayoade. Paid Gimp in Gimp mask shock.
By mistake switched on channel 4 news.
But first an advert for their Dispatches program on Monday “how clean are surfaces in the public?”
How many more people will be driven to manic cleaning like the very sad example mentioned here a few days ago?
The sad thing is that ‘Dispatches’ has a record of really good investigative work. Way before Al Jazeera highlighted it, Peter Oborne, for instance did a superb analysis of the dire influence of the Israel Lobby on British political life, with it’s links to establishment anti-democratic extremism.
… which is why such truth telling brings down manipulative wrath on those who call out the excrescences of those now shaping the Covid fictions : truth is dangerous to them.
Oh dear. Shame he didn’t do a similar programme on Saudi, Qatari, Emirati, Pakistani, Malaysian and Somalian influence on out national life. Al Jazeera is Qatari funded by the way.
Ahh but if the surfaces are dirty worry not. We can use hand gel. Hand gel is good right ? That is everywhere, that and masks and don’t worry about the dirt.
(Never mention that bacteria is not the same as a virus and a lot of bacteria is necessary for life to live)
(Also never mention that the benefit from masks is countered by the harms by a great degree )
Clown planet.
Snake Oil anyone ?
Yeah, like the couple just now who asked the girl at the checkout if the supermarket is proving sanitiser and then went to sanitise their hands before leaving the shop.
Why don’t they provide their own handgel if they’re so bothered??
Not just thickos but scroungers too.
Actually makes more sense than doing so before you enter, after which you handle items handled by many others!
Unfortunately most people’s views have been strongly shaped by the early lockdown Dispatches programme which said Pfeffel didn’t lock down quick enough.
Yes…if only we’d done what Belgium did we could have had a really low…oh no, wait….scrub that…
I’ll never forget the prime time talk show I watched on the main Irish channel RTE back in Feb. The cleaning maniacs were getting their 5 minutes of fame and they brought on some lady, bless her, who was advising the nation to steam clean their sofas daily, among other obsessive things. The host of the show was, fair play to him, clearly taken aback by that particular recommendation but didn’t question it.
Ironically he did catch Covid a month later, no doubt he missed a day of sofa steam clean
Frustratingly, I have hardly ever been challenged – after all, it gives one the chance to do some schooling.
Welsh petition to allow supermarkets to sell non-essentials. Sorry if it’s been posted before.
https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/244282/signatures/new
Tbh, If supermarkets are allowed to sell “non -essentials”, in the interest of competition and to offer the consumer choice, then all shops need to be able to sell their wares.
I am not sure how communism works, but does it have control of commodities and choice as part of the social control ? Drakeford is a hard left politician. One suspects his choices are not virus control related.
No. Drakeford is just a quotidian arsehole. Just as Johnson is the same. It’s nothing to do with real politics. It’s about putting aresholes in charge.
He’s definitely an arsehole.
But from what I can tell he is a momentum backed politician.
I personally don’t think that should be supported. It’s like a women in a controlling relationship negotiating who she can have as friends.
Well, the usual choice a woman has in that situation is to walk away from the relationship, hoping that the guy doesn’t kill in on her way out.
Obviously, all restrictions need to be removed from shops of all kinds in Wales.
Agree absolutely, but any kind of pushback against Ceausescu is to be welcomed.
Double-plus-stupid-bonkers…
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/oct/23/is-a-pumpkin-an-essential-item-in-the-wales-covid-firebreak
They’re rowing about if pumpkins can be sold or not but don’t give a shit about children’s clothes…
What a bunch of clowns. You stupid, stupid, stupid people…
Signed. .Heading for 26,000. The muppets in Cardiff have to debate it five times over, as petitions get debated if they top the 5000 mark.
Six times over now it’s up to 31,000.
I’m getting the fabulous Maureen and her fella printed on a t shirt. That interview summed up the covid crisis. A pair of logical, well informed normal people being spoken down to by the self righteous, condescending ‘elite’ who truly believe we’re too stupid to go toe to toe with them Special mention to her hubby who refused to fall into their trap of ‘is Maureen stubborn’ and then matched the condescension of Jarvis by telling her she was probably a bit young and inexperienced (mixing it with facts on 1968 too). That interview won’t change the Elite, but it will wake up a slumbering mass who can connect with Maureen. Jarvis got her arse kicked and the best but is that’s she hasn’t even worked that out yet
Yes the GMB people were toe-curlingly embarrassing. Should be ashamed to be so patronising!
I’m bewildered that anybody can tolerate those despicable GMB people on a daily basis.
An hour of watching that level of ignorant sanctimonious smugness would have me vomiting blood.
I’ve noticed Morgan appears to be trying to reposition himself. I bet he thinks he can get away with it
Nope, he was one of the first on the list
I’ve noticed that too. He was most ‘unstrident’ when interviewed by Kevin O’Sullivan on Talk Radio last Saturday.
You mean the Morgan guy who was against BLM four years ago and is now all in favour? Or do you mean the Morgan guy who was highly critical of Covidiots failing to social distance until his son took part in a radical protest where people failed to social distance?
I could have slapped Dr thingy . Silly bitch
https://mobile.twitter.com/DrSarahJarvis
Give her 500 times the feedback
CCBGB
One can only hope. I don’t agree with picking on anyone. I do agree with calling out someone who uses a platform to lie to millions.
Yes, no need to be offensive – just indicate how she lied and how she deliberately misrepresented what Maureen and partner were arguing for.
Yes good job I saw it on my laptop.
The tv would have been a goner!
I couldn’t watch it all as the glossy shiny rictus grinning smugness of the interviewers and Dr whoever was too much to bear! Maureen & husband deserve big medals and hugs! Sock it to the media….keep on doing it.
Please ensure you give MBE Jarvis your feedback.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DrSarahJarvis
500 times would be nice.
Jarvis has been the f’ing expert on every bloody medical condition under the sun. She’s a self opinionated disrespectful twat! I had Hong Kong flu in ‘68 age 10. If wasn’t nice, much worse than Covid I’m sure. We got on with it!
I copped the ’57/58 version and the 67/68 one. I wouldn’t wish either of them on anyone, and have no illusions about viral infections.
… which makes the rubbish that Jarvis was allowed to spout a f.ing insult. GP? Does that stand for ‘Gobby Prick’?
“. Jarvis got her arse kicked and the best but is that’s she hasn’t even worked that out yet“
Yes I think their hubris will be a big part of their undoing
Hubris is a beautiful word And an ideal one in the circumstances we face.
Coronavirus latest news: Schools may have to close to older pupils to curb virus spread, Prof Ferguson warns (Daily Telegraph)
How is it his job to warn us?
Lots of blowback in the comments on the Daily Mail version of that article.
Scientists have always wanted to take over the world..
As Margaret from Barnsley said: “Boris must get rid of the scientists and send them back to their universities and labs.
I didn’t vote for them to run the country.”
Maureen sorry.
Serious issue : the fake egotists riding on the back of fake science (SAGE brown-nose types) are doing serious damage to the very important role of real science.
Only one flaw in that comment : he’s not a ‘scientist’ – just a player of computer games.
Yes, HG Wells was all for it.
^ this. Used to be that every mad scientist in the world needed a James Bond type to stop them. Now we are all trapped by the evil of Vallance and Whitty and our James Bond is Donald Trump.
Christ on a bike.
Indeed but then Donald Trump sounds like Dr Evil…confusing!!
He’s more prevalent than the bloody virus!
Certainly a lot more dangerous.
Anyone can get him.
Anyone can spread him.
He’ll kill your granny.
I’m can’t begin to describe how sick I am of that man and his pronouncements.
I think I’m right in saying that he’s not part of any official government advisory body any more (although I wouldn’t be the slightest bit surprised to find that he’s doing it on the sly). So this is his personal opinion and he can stick it where the sun don’t shine.
He should be ashamed at what his idiotic model has unleashed, and embarrassed at his inability to follow his own rules, not out courting further publicity.
Given his own previous track record for obeying his own rules, he would probably set up his own independent sixth form school.
Protests against new restrictions in Naples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQe715ZWgrc
Some crucial tips to stop the spread of a very mild respiratory virus. Please obey these or PEOPLE WILL DIE and the NHS will be overwhelmed.
-Do not go out to buy a toaster.
-Never pay for anything in cash.
-Do not walk past anybody in the opposite direction.
-Do not go out after 9.55pm
All the above have been proven under controlled scientific experiments to stop the spread. If we do them it will buy us time.
Stay safe guys
I think not going out after 9:55pm is a good idea, not because the virus wakes up at 10, but because of all of the drink drivers! (I’ve nearly been ran over twice now whilst walking home after going down the boozer)
When the clocks change though, the virus will be about at 9pm – so the pubs should probably close an hour earlier.
I best write to my MP and demand that they change the rules not.
If the virus can tell the difference between somebody sitting down and eating and somebody sitting down studying the menu, it can surely get the hang of daylight saving.
I’m worried about going into a cafe. Obviously I’m safe sitting down, but what if I sit at a bar stool? My head is as at the same height as people walking about. I do hope the virus can tell the difference.
It depends if you are going to eat, or going to eat and drink. If its the latter, you should stand on one leg only with a teapot on your head and then you will be ok.
Thank you John. I feel much safer now!!
If you buy a toaster, people will die. Don’t be a toastidiot.
Signed, Piers Morgan.
I just saw some selfish Covid denier buying a kettle. If somebody’s gran dies now and isn’t around for Christmas then we know why. Name and shame them on social media.
It was a fuzz in disguise, they need to kettle all those dangerous anti-lockdowners.
Wrap yourself in clingfilm and hop to work.
Protect the NHS, use the grill.
Gremlins had a better plot
I have four alternative options:
– Sack Whitty
– Sack Vallance
– Sack Hancock
– Appoint Yeadon as Chief Medical, Scientific and Everything Else Officer.
Toast Dripfeed.
Cosh Wancock.
Walk past Boris in the opposite direction and kick him in the goolies.
Stay out all night breaking the windows of Covid zombies to let in all that nice fresh air.
Stay sane folks.
Fascinating read from someone working with therapeutic nebulisations of viruses .He also have some very interesting views of the dangers of selectively stopping immunity to C-19
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1320032362550464516.html
“Raises the question.. Are the masks stopping large droplets or nebulizing them into Aerosols? Aerosols are smaller than 5um and more infective. They are more monodispersed and less likely to precipitate out of the air with humidity.”
“The focus has been myopic ironically. It is focused on the reduction of large droplets while failing to consider if the larger droplets are getting nebulized into smaller ones.
If you study the field you will see viral nebulization is a technique used to get higher infectivity of viruses. This is used with ventilator patients suffering from pseudomonas aeruginosa infections. Nebulize bacteriaphage to get deep into the lungs and kill bacteria.”
“Human coronavirus immunity is known to wane in 2-4 year cycles.
What happens when the whole world distances while these viruses continue to evolve? They have other hosts. Bats, Pangolins, ferrets, minks, cats, dogs… pretty much anything with ACE2 receptors.”
“Our ancestors paid it forward by building a vibrant free market economy that took these slight infections risks while building immunity. Our generation is too selfish. They want everyone else to hide to help them and have no time preference for the future. C19 is here.
But C20 or C21 is going to be a bitch.”
Send that to Toby, Swedenborg
Why? I don’t see this helps our case at all and it reads like a form of fear-mongering. The CV19 virus has gone, just about everywhere in Europe. Mike Yeadon says that immunity from coronavirus can last decades not 2 – 4 years and he knows his stuff! Most European countries have already seen off CV19, by and large, so this stuff may only apply to countries that are trying for the impossible dream of hiding from it. ‘Zero Covid’ is of course yet another psyop.
What we have in northern Europe is a ‘case-demic’ or opportunistic fear-porning about normal levels of respiratory illness for autumn. Of course people are still going to hospital with respiratory infections but few of them are really CV19 and even if they are, so what?
The UK mania for testing healthy people is simply prolonging this tyranny. The risk to the general population is now minuscule. Yeadon says that other countries are scaling down testing so why has Der Fuhrer ordered millions of tests and ploughing on with ‘Operation Moonshot’? As Yeadon asks, ‘Why is isn’t the epidemic over?’ Answer: ‘Because SAGE says it’s not’.
If anyone has not yet heard James Delingpole interview Mike Yeadon, it really is a must-listen and goes much further than the cautious approach of the GBD. He does not pull his punches and he is really angry with the lies Valance and co are telling. He is also rightly worried where this is going. If we don’t address this basic issue i.e. that the whole lockdown charade is just that, we are sunk. https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-atukd-efc5d9
Just composing our leaflets. . . . MW
Immunity might wane in time, but it’s actually only a matter of symptoms. While your immunity is “high” you will never notice you have the virus. When your immunity is lower it would likely only mean you have mild symptoms. As far as I know, and it’s mostly just my own reassurance research, if you get it again and your immunity is low if the virus is mostly the same it won’t result in a major issue for you. So any doom mongers need to find another thing to be scared of.
“Back to masks to address a question.
Imagine 50um spittle hits mask with high velocity and 90% of it wets the mask but 10% of it aerosols into less than 5um particles and those small ones are 10x more infective.
This isn’t as simple as pissing your pants”
Kevin McKernan
Fascinating read, thank you
Yes, very interesting suggestion, thanks. I guess we have another potential mechanism alongside contact contamination that might make masks actually exacerbate spread or severity.
Makes me even more interested to see what the Danish study found.
And of course we all know trousers stop farts.
lol, good one to tell the next zealot you meet!
I tell ya what, if they close my gym down again I will be stripped of my only enjoyment in life right now. Wouldn’t be long until I might begin to slip away for good.
Don’t slip away – resist!
You must be fit from all that gym. All you need us lots of nosh and you won’t slip away.
Use your strength to fight. Read or watch The Lord of the Rings to help your mindset.
Are lamposts essential?. Is rope essential?
Mussolini would say, no.
They are useful if you don’t have an axe handy.
Clocks go back tonight, can somebody let Coroni know
Don’t worry if he can work out if your sitting doWn or not in a pub then I’m sure he can work out the difference between GMT and British summer time
It’s works out the different times all over the world, an hour difference in the uk will be nothing for it.
Shit. There will be some major confusion tomorrow at 10pm in the 1/3 of the country that’s still open.
That’s all we fucking need another hour of this year.
(Covid thinks) Great, an extra hour to infect people!
‘You ignorant servile scum what the fuck are we doing here’
Is that Herr Drakford on the back of the horse drawn wagon?
https://youtu.be/K_DnRn9hyFU
I think the word you want is ‘tumbril’.
Yes,
We will need a fleet of them of course.
Leased from Serco
Has it been established if Covid is more infectious than flu and has symptoms not found in flu.
It acts differently in the body than flu in that it does affect Major organs in a different way. The way your immune system reacts is essentially the same and the symptoms, I believe, are your immune response rather than the virus itself.
covid hasn’t been proved to even exist
https://twitter.com/ElonBachman/status/1320007484380205058 “More hints that the Danish mask study found no protection for the wearer.” https://twitter.com/henrik_ullum/status/1320004570697826304 “It is also important that scientific evidence never relies on one single study. For instance source control (does my mask protect you?) is not examined in our DANMASK study.”
All this scrutiny over a proper human RCT opposing masks yet a quickly-retracted hamster observation was enough to support them.
It won’t change much for us then surely, we will still be compelled to wear masks to protect others.
It’s never been about medicine.
It’s solely a Gessler’s hat.
Even if the study found they provided a lot of protection they still shouldn’t be mandatory. It’s the simple principle of personal liberty.
That’s what I was trying to get at earlier. To steal Sumption’s phrases, liberty is not absolute but it has a very high value. Call me selfish, but the benefits would have to be considerable for me to accept being muzzled for the rest of my life.
But you might reduce the prospect of killing someone’s nan by 0.0000000000000000000000001%!
“Even if it saves one life it’s worth it!”
Answer : on that principle, the Battle of Britain should never have been fought; the white flag would have saved more lives.
Simple, isn’t it?
Well most zealots would have collaborated.
Same with the Falklands invasion. Argentina should have been let at it.
Yes and it’s a question of harm balance. You put in a control measure you should, in principle, balance the negatives from the control measure you put in place. And the negatives are at least equal to the benefit.
I think it will show it harms you
If I could request anything at all from the goddess of Truth (lately much obscured behind a cloud), it would be that.
https://swprs.org/the-suppressed-danish-mask-study/
The Swiss doctor also has some ideas about it.
I’ve just watched part of the GMB interview with Maureen and her husband, I couldn’t stand much more of the GP. Sarah Jarvis was wrong when she said that they hadn’t lived through 6 pandemics, making reference to 1918 flu as the only one worse than this. I’ve lived through 3 previous pandemics since the 1950’s, Asian flu 1958, Hong Kong flu 1968 and HIV/AIDS all of which have had mortality rates greater than SARS-COV-2.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DrSarahJarvis
Give 500 x the feedback
That GP is on my hit list today and on my shit list forever
Always been a first rate ‘know it all’ bitch!
Never seen her before, shocked that she has a public platform. “500 times more likely”. Astonishing
Snap, plus various serious illnesses such as Polio, Diphtheria,Measles and Typhoid.
I was only 2 when the Asian flu pandemic was around. I was fortunate to have polio and diphtheria inoculations. I think that some people believe that the mid 20th century was disease free, yet I think we were in some ways healthier.
Measles is still endemic, from Wikipedia “In 2000 alone, measles killed some 777,000 worldwide out of 40 million cases globally”
People seem to forget these sort of facts.
The IFR for measles in 2000 was 1.95%
Tried to watch it but had to switch off midway as couldn’t stand Sarah Jarvis and her patronising drivel.
She should be struck off the medical register after this.
Oh – you’ve lived through far more serious episodes than that. 7 since 1993.
2019/20 was nothing particularly exceptional at all.
These were pandemics as defined by the WHO that were present in the U.K., there have been other pandemics in other areas of the world, including cholera. We’ve had epidemics of measles and other diseases, but these didn’t meet the definition of a pandemic. Sarah Jarvis specifically stated that they couldn’t have lived through 6 pandemics unless they were at least 101 years old.
They’ve changed the definition of a pandemic. Listen here, even though its hard work, it’s excellent https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/10/17/coronavirus-fraud-biggest-crime-against-humanity.aspx
I realise they changed the definition in 2009 or thereabouts, but the ones I referred to are under the original definition. The current situation would not count as a pandemic under the old definition, as it was based on deaths and hospitalisations of patients having the disease, not just a positive test for the virus (which didn’t exist prior to the HIV/AIDS pandemic in the 80’s and so a pandemic had to depend on a clinical definition)
I may be wrong but think there were polio pandemics as well.
You’re right. My husband had it in about 1970 which was well covered up.
There were epidemics of polio in this country in the 50’s and 60’s, also in the USA, but they didn’t meet the original criteria to be declared as pandemics. There are currently epidemics of polio in India (?) and some African countries being blamed on vaccines.
What is New Zealand’s take on the news that the vaccine won’t be required to prevent infection or death? Are they going to remain in isolation with sealed borders forever, or finally admit that they will have to accept the arrival of “cases”?
Wait for a 100% effective one maybe? Which may as well be in isolation forever.
Good luck to them then!
Yep, i’m still waiting to hear NZ’s end game. None of the flag-waving zealots seem to have an answer for me yet.
It’s inconvenient. I’m sure they were all convinced they would get their jabs and be 100% immune, safe and protected. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Get rid of the nauseating woman with the teeth…
“Woman”?
Isn’t there film of her with the same sort of bulge as Mike Obama?
She just won an election by a landslide. They seem to like her. (Don’t ask me why!)
Reason has only ever been with the few.
So did Johnson. The tide can turn very quickly.
Perhaps they just like catastrophes: earthquakes, pandemics, landslides. To be serious, I think Kiwis were traumatised by their earthquake. People here don’t understand how much damage it caused.
Sentinel Island 2.0.
If the Cardiff Bay Nazis really want to stop motorists fleeing the hell-hole they should close the Severn Bridges to civilian traffic for the duration.
Only by ramping up the Snot Patrol and its bogus PCR tests can we bring this thing to an end, once we all have “tested positive”.
.
That ends nothing, because ‘there is no such thing as herd immunity.’ It won’t be enough to have had the rona. Instead, we will have to prove that we don’t have it every day for ever. Test, test, test!
Not just those but also the A48 to the Forest of Dean. Lydney can make a killing out of Chepstow smugglers.
Not Nazis. Stalinists.
Worse than Nazis. Yes, it is possible.
The Telegraph:
“Armed police officers have dispersed large crowds of anti-lockdown protesters at Trafalgar Square following a march through central London.”
Armed? Were they? Why?
All it takes is for one of these robots to totally lose the plot and those scruffy, horrible, dirty protesters will be sprayed with machine gun bullets. For their own safety of course.
“I was trying to shoot the virus out of the air” said one officer.
I was at the protest, it was peaceful and friendly. Some police officers stood in front of us mumbling (behind their masks) probably about ‘social distancing’ but just sidestepped.
By the time the police arrived shortly after 4pm the crowds has disappeared. There might have been armed uniformed men there (I saw them closeup but saw no guns), but whatever they were, they weren’t police.
The Welsh Scum has offered this explanation for their lunatic rules:
“The purpose of selling essential items only during firebreak is to discourage spending more time than necessary in shops and to be fair to retailers who have to close.
“This is not for the sake of being difficult – we need to do everything we can to minimise the time we spend outside our homes. This will help save lives and protect the NHS.”
I see we’re back to “protecting the NHS”. As many have pointed out, I thought they were there to protect us.
I’ve just polished off a very tasty chocolate sponge pudding with cream on top. I’m now worried that this was a piece of non-essential consumption that may kill my granny (both of whom died in the 1970s but you never know…). Granted I don’t actually live in Wales but I have been there on a number of occasion and, now I think of it, my mother’s maiden name was Evans. Do you think I should have asked Drakeford for permission? Should I admit my heinous crime and hand myself in to the Welsh constabulary?
All and any advice on this moral dilemma would be gratefully received.
Say three ‘hail sponge puddings’ and have a second helping. With chocolate sprinkles.
Most excellent response. Thanks, Liz.
Eat pudding.
Fuck Drakeford.
Since he is a leaking anal fistula, perhaps not. Paper in printer cartridges are also deemed inessential by my local Tesco, though not by my local post office.
Might be a good ploy to piss off the Police and Councils by taking your shopping list in to ask if they can tell you what’s essential and what isn’t.
Must be repeated every Saturday evening until normality resumes.
Because everyone knows that people will linger when buying a toaster. Last time I brought one, I was in the supermarket for 23 hours. Toasters kill.
Luckily, no one in Wales has heard of Amazon, so the retailers who had to close need not worry…
People will just linger in the food aisles much longer, with less social distancing. Well done Turtlehead!
Yes, once again, the messianic cult of the NHS is being dragged out like some 21st Century Wicker Man. Lockdowns and masks and social distancing will appease our God and mean we are allowed out again. Briefly.
And the BBC are giving Ferguson oxygen again. Is the twat not sufficiently discredited?
I’m feeling particularly saturnine this evening. I fear this will never be over.
Same, it is not looking good.
The end is near – I’m sure of it. For this shit, and for the BBC
I certainly hope you are correct but think we are changed as a nation irrevocably by the response to Covid.
The next time a respiratory illness rises in the East, I fear that demands for lockdowns, restrictions and masks will resurface.
I think trust in state sanctioned organisations and in scientists has been badly damaged. Personally, I now feel completely separated from society. I didn’t realise just how many thick, unthinking, cowardly and easily cowed people there were. Perhaps this is how it’s always been and this insane episode has brought it into the open.
I think trust in state sanctioned organisations and in scientists has been badly damaged.
I couldn’t agree more. Politicians, Police, Scientists (some) have totally lost the trust of some people (us, at least).
For a lot of people, especially sceptics, the word ‘expert’ has come to mean ‘bullshitter’.
I fear you are correct. A permanent anti-lockdown campaign or organisation will therefore be needed.
Welsh doctors tee times need to be protected. Nothing more, nothing less.
Especially after they have had 8 months to prepare for any winter surges. But no criticism from msm.I am sick to death of having our whole way of life shattered on the alter of a health care system, that is already responsible for 16000 deaths and counting due to neglect and poor delivery of rightful healthcare. As for GPs, they need to be issued with legal cases of neglect and corporate manslaughter where necessary.
If they are so bad in taking the sample correctly at an academic hospital,how do you think it would be in a privately run field testing centre?
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.19.20213140v1
Accuracy of Healthcare Professionals’ Nasopharyngeal Swab Technique in SARS-CoV-2 Specimen Collection :”A prospective study of nasopharyngeal swab technique by staff in an academic tertiary referral centre was carried out. Nasopharyngeal swab technique was evaluated by a novel design of a navigated swab on a three-dimensional model head. Results: Swab technique of 228 participants was assessed. Technique was poor, with a success rate of nasopharyngeal swabbing at 38.6%. Angle and length of insertion were significantly different between those with successful and unsuccessful technique. Doctors were significantly more accurate than nurses and non-healthcare professionals (p<0.01).”
“Conclusion: Inaccurate specimen collection from poor swab technique could contribute to false negative rate of testing for SARS-CoV-2. Specific training in nasopharyngeal anatomy and swab technique may improve the accuracy of nasopharyngeal swabbing.”
Mike Yeadon thinks the false positive rate is approaching 100% thanks to this kind of thing. Either way, the fear-porn level stays high and we stay in our various lockdowns until the health passport is ready. MW
How would this affect the false positive rate? Surely it could about affect the false negatives?
I thought MY said false positive rate could be up to 15% but if we say 5%, of 300k tests, would be most of the current positive results.
Yes, I think the principle is that the FPR might be (say) 5% of all tests taken, but that 5% might be getting on for 100% of all of the positive results.
So if you tested 100,000 people on one day at a FPR of 5% that would give 5000 false positive results.
If they then announced that there were 5500 positive test results that day would mean that 5000/5500×100 = 91% of the positive results were false positive results.
Thanks, you saved me the job. MW
Probably different percentages. 20 positives, of which 10 are false positives, out of 100 tests, is a False Positive Rate of 10% but the number of False Positives is 100% of the number of genuine positives.
That’s an interesting point. where I am in Scotland, they are now asking people to do their own swabs in the car.
What a farce. MW
Hardly a sterile environment, joke isn’t it. Everything about this testing nonsense is a scam.
How many cars have tested positive so far?
1960s bubble cars are in the clear, anyway.
A lot of my ex-colleagues worked at Stansted testing station, they have always handed people the kit through the slightest gap in the car window and then they had to do the test on themselves. At least one person per day throws up.
So what to say about self testing at home, as many people are, before popping it in the post? Falsenegatives guaranteed…some may even be deliberate.
False negatives mean of course that infectious people are being encouraged back into the workplace
You what? False negatives demonstrate the covid charade is a total hoax.
are you confusing false negatives with false positives peter?
Think he must. False negatives just show what nonsense is bleated by the politicians and epidemiologists about thd importance of testing and tracing.
Is anybody truly infectious? Apart from usual seasonal colds is anybody dangerously sick?
I struggle to understand the charade of so many people being sick and walking death traps
I would think that you might be infectious in the week or so before you develop symptoms, and in the two weeks or so that you have symptoms, but once the symptoms have gone then you are not infectious because your body has defeated (ie killed) the virus.
I’m not convinced that you can be truly asymptomatic. I suspect (but do not know for sure) that all of those that are entirely asymptomatic are just false positives.
you are a shill
No, I am not. I am here to have intelligent debate with like minded people.
I very much look forward to the end of this covid charade and have often very forcefully said exactly what I think of Johnson and his government.
If you think that of me, “peter” then I can’t help you.
Dear Peter
John P has been posting here for ages and I’ve seen no evidence he’s a shill
Can you explain why you think this?
Not sure about being infectious before you develop symptoms. Just a personal anecdote, but I had covid back at the beginning of March – dry cough, temperature. Lunchtime drink with friends and tea in the afternoon the day before the onset of symptoms yet nobody else fell ill.
The time when you are most infectious is just before you develop symptoms as the onset of symptoms is usually a sign that the body’s immune system has woken up and has begun fighting and killing the virus.
Before the immune system recognises that there is anything wrong the virus can multiply unchecked.
Viral particles remain in the body for up to three months after the infection has gone and I think accounts for most of the false positives. The PCR test cannot distinguish between live, viable virus and pieces of dead virus.
I sometimes think of this as the lottery virus, they reckon that for whatever reason only about 1 in 10 people who get the virus actually do any significant spread of the virus. These are the so called super spreaders, so to get going this virus needs a big social gathering so that there is a chance of it finding the 1 in 10 super spreaders.
Why most people who get this virus do not spread it is something for which I have not seen an explanation.
As a disease that initially infects the upper respiratory tract my understanding of immunity is that whilst you may get the virus in your upper respiratory tract it never develops into Covid disease. I understand that this is how the vaccine is supposed to work and so you can be immune and still test +ve.
Regarding the test it was designed as an aid to clinical investigation it was never designed for mass screening with major policy decisions taken on just the test results. This misuse of the test has underpinned much of the current nonsense and tomfoolery.
Well yes I agree. You are absolutely right about the PCR test. It was designed as a lab tool to increase sample sizes for scientific exploration. It was never designed as a diagnostic tool.
I think the central point is – who has actually got the virus?
The PCR test is so unreliable as a diagnostic tool that I don’t think you can be sure of who has it unless they actually have symptoms as well. In which case they may be inclined to stay at home anyway if they are feeling unwell as you would if you had a cold.
I’m not sure there are “super spreaders”. I think that term is probably a part of the government propaganda, but the whole thing is farcical Steve. I don’t think people know what to believe half the time. I struggle with it and I like to think I have a reasonable understanding of it.
I don’t believe the super-spreader myth. The Lockdownists started coming out with this BS to explain away the abject failure of lockdown strategies (as shown by the world death rate league). They attempt to link it to the efficacy of test and trace. But of course one of the most obvious things about a “super-spreader” is that they will be very easy to trace as so many fingers will be pointing at them. The people who don’t register with test and trace are the false negatives. We now know there could be large numbers of those.
The basic problem is that the PCR test isn’t fit for purpose – because what it’s being used for was never its purpose!
Yes, exactly.
PS: it may just mean that the virus is not very infectious.
A woman who my sister knows – as her daughter is best friends with her daughter – apparently has covid now, but my sister told me that nobody else in the woman’s family has caught it from her.
It’s quite ironic as the woman who has it is a lockdown zealot.
They provably have immunity.
I’m with Yeadon. There was a genuine pandemic in the spring. It is now trailing into endemic insignificance. Lockdowns never stopped the virus. Neither do masks. It’s still v infectious, there’s just less of it about now we are v close to herd immunity.
I have doubts how infectious it was or is. It wasdowngraded from an HCID prior to lockdown in March, a very important point all media have avoided challenging the government with.
Where the virus is not prevalent the rate of false negatives is very very low.
Which means that there are going to be very very few people who have the virus, but who test negative.
By contrast the rate of false positives is very high when prevalence of the virus is very low.
And track and trace is absolutely insane. The more you try and suppress false positives on these tests, by increasing the sensitivity, you have to pay for that with false negatives as its picking up any old thing.
It’s the fire reason why PCR testing is not to be used for mass screening of population in the midst of an epidemic. It leads to rabbit hole policy making and monumental waste of resource.
Here’s a good summary of the false positive issue.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30453-7/fulltext#%20
Strikes me that if swabbing takes so much manipulation, then the incidental transmission of any virus is about as likely as winning the lottery.
Was out today so have not had time to read many of of the comments.
After a successful day trip to Windsor last Thursday, Mr Bart and I set off for Colchester today and I had to say, the contrast with two days ago was like night and day.
While Windsor was refreshingly normal under these insane circumstances, Colchester was pretty much by the book when it came to implementing any “safety” regulations. We were taken aback by questions about being in the same household and the rude way I was asked if I had a muzzle.
Loads of people muzzled in the outdoors even a few kids!!
Perhaps this slavish adherence to the rules is the reason why the high street looked rather sad and depressing with several shops advertising closing down sales.
It was great to have seen the Roman ruins and the outside of the castle (didn’t bother to go in as pre-booking was required and Mr Bart refused to wear a muzzle) however I don’t think we shall ever return.
Dystopian rating: 9/10 compared to Windsor’s 3.5/10
We will limp.through to xmas with all these stupid restrictions but it will all fall apart at the festive period .But they will announce a vaccine for march to keep us compliant, of course it wont happen.
My 9 year-old granddaughter assured me that the mockdown won’t end till March.
Interesting!
I’ve always maintained it will be March too.
I think she’s right. They can’t let us out until spring now, because the NHS is overwhelmed every winter from flu and seasonal illness and if/when the same happens this year they will be blamed for not stopping covid.
Nine year olds. I’m surprised it’s being decided at such a high level.
My 9-year old daughter was relating again today her theory that aliens have taken over the government and controlling people via masks.
The 9 year-olds are exhibiting a level of perception sadly lacking in many of their elders.
Also my psychic wife predicts March. She predicted an October lockdown months ago. She has some interesting insight into the fates of Boris and of Drakeford. It doesn’t end well for them.
Ooh good – can’t wait!
Ooohh, tell us more. Hearing about the grim fates of Boris, Drakeford et al will give us sustenance over the grim months ahead.
https://www.coronababble.com/post/how-the-mean-psychologists-induced-us-to-comply-with-coronavirus-restrictions
this is such a well written and clear explanation of how the public has been duped it’s going to blow a few minds
Thank you. There’s more information here, and I’ll add that one as well
https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/psychological-manipulation
DS phoned for a rant and some commiseration.
An idiot at work had the sniffles and stupidly went for a covid test. Came back positive, so the whole workshop has had to close down till they all get negative tests back.
If his comes back positive, he’s to survive on £75 for two weeks. That will just about cover his child maintainance and leave zilch for his stepkids. Presumably a positive result will mean his partner is also reduced to penury for a while.
Meanwhile, they’ve been crazy busy at work, so the orders will be backed up to nightmare proportions when they return.
Intresting how this kind of situation never gets covered in the Daily Fluffograph or the Flufftator.
Sorry to read that. It’s not an acceptable situation. Nor is 80% wages or any of the other bribes they think they can throw at the public.
Wankers.
Anyone who voluntarily goes for a test needs a swift kick up the arse.
What is a “DS”?
And why has he had children he can’t afford?
Unnecessary. Circumstances can change, and I imagine it would be hard to afford much if you’ve been forcibly prevented from working by government diktat. Add to that the threat of a substantial fine if you dare to continue going about your business.
Could happen to any of us at any time now, multiple times over potentially.
Circumstances can indeed change. I have gone from financially secure to on the brink within 7 months through no fault of my own whatsoever. Life savings used to pay off mortgage so at least they cannot take the roof above my head.
Absolutely shocking. Thoughts are with you Sarigan ( & everyone else in a similar position). There has to be a price to pay for the idiots in charge.
DS – darling son
Is that what you took from that? Nowhere is here inference to having children he can’t afford. Shameful.
he can afford them if the government doesn’t stop him working … what an idiotic comment.
Don’t be a dick.
Dear oh dear.
If I wanted sanctimonious guff like that, I’d be on a zealot website.
It’s called marital breakdown. And normally he does afford – generously.
Don’t be such a tosser!
Just read the article in the DM regarding millions paid to consultants. Absolutely disgusting. What on earth are the civil service doing?
Is it not time that Krankie and Dragonford are made to finance their own stupid decisions!
Dragonford is too grand a name for that non-entity. Please call him Dickfraud instead.
Personally, I think a new low was reached today in Germany, when a very vocal group of young people shouted down a group of mainly middle-aged lockdown protesters in Oldenburg with the chant:
“We will vaccinate you all!”
This is pure hatred, and a pogrom and Milgram atmosphere and attitude now.
By GenY/Z, in effing Germany, in 2020, for chrissake?!
Little wankers
Heard from some friends abroad who are in their 80s, scared witless by the MSM, fucking leave them alone and let them get on with their lives, why do these self-righteous pricks think they are doing the elderly any favours by prolonging this misery?
That’s the Antifa – ie not normal young people
No, those were pretty representative scum.
The face coverings they all wear with so much enthusiasm gives them the anonymity and power.
I loved how the cameraperson from Klagepaten the other day had a run in with a youngster like that, who “does not speak with people who give right wing people a platform” and the cameraperson replied: “oh great, we can talk then”.
Sadly us youngsters are probably the most zealous age group. But at the same time the local teenagers never stopped hanging out during Lockdown I, probably the only non-compliance round here back in the spring.
Unfortunately the majority won’t believe it.
So how are the government, SAGE, the NHS, and the MSM going to keep up the fear level when they run out of respiratory deaths? In fact yheyvd pretty much run out of them already.
It will be the Conservative Party that cracks first.
I think they’ll somehow just try to conflate it with flu deaths. If there’s a flu epidemic this year then we could find ourselves back in lockdown.
What is the likelihood of a major flu epidemic after Covid has picked all the low hanging fruit? Not impossible but very unlikely I would say.
I’m not sure that it has and besides we will all continue to get old.
Fruit is harvested every year from trees.
ScotlandWales,N Ireland are in lockdown and vast swathes of the North are in lockdown in all but name,London in semi lockdown.They are doing this on projected numbers from a dodgy test.It will be easy to maintain this throughout the winter.
The hardest thing will be to maintain order as the economy collapses and people belatedly wake up.I believe this is the purpose of social distancing measures and pub closures to keep people apart and prevent them from organising resistance.
Recently I found myself telling a student that I was pinning my hopes on capitalism. A refreshingly novel sentiment for a Labour-voting feminist academic.
Indeed. The Conservative Party in the UK is not the party of Big Tech billionaires. It can’t ignore the UK SME businesses that are its backbone. However much MPs are corrupted by the globalists, they know they have to get voted on.
They nearly have so they’ve just switched to “cases” and hospital capacity instead.
People are gullible but not stupid. A pandemic with no deaths is not a pandemic.
I think the rise in positive tests with few or no symptoms is having an effect. Now pretty well everyone knows someone who’s experience was ‘ was that it?’.
People are not stupid???
This whole shitshow has been one long demonstration of the fact that people, or at least sheeple ( nearly the same thing) are INFINITELY stupid.
Gullible not stupid. Gullibility is a product of innocence.
Ordinary people find it difficult to understand how politicians, business people and religious leaders can lie so brazenly.
It’s not stupidity on the part of people.
They just think other people work to the same standards of honesty they do. Naive but not stupid.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein.
Another fake Einstein quote? You Einstein Quotists are so gullible!
It’s a cult, they will go to their graves believing
Germany 1945.
They can change their mind only after the catastrophe has happened.
And the majority will still be secret believers up until their deaths.
A very interesting analogy Jay, and one I believe is apposite here. I wrote my thesis many years ago about propaganda in Nazi Germany and got marked down because i concluded that despite all the apparent ‘successes’ of Goebbels and the ‘Volkischer Beobachter’ and all the rest of the onslaught, at no point did they feel secure enough to celebrate the murder of Jews. Instead, they hid it. So it was, ultimately a failure. Yes, the German people knew that the Jews were being mistreated horrendously, and yes, they probably weren’t overly concerned, but the reason why post war West Germany was able to be a successful democracy is because, ultimately the vast majority of German citizens never REALLY believed the propaganda. They were frightened initially, grateful that their Government cared about them, and ultimately just doing what they were conditioned to do. They lost the ability to think critically. As soon as the war was lost, the majority understood that they had been mugged.
They are beginning to. Don’t believe the opinion polls. There is a significant opinion switch taking place. They have overplayed their hand. Their problem is that the longer they spin it out, and the more individual citizens feel their own personal pain, the more they lose ground. I have always said end November/beginning December is when the dam collapses. Feeling more confident than ever.
I want to believe you, but most of the public have just kept falling for it. It’s been said before it can’t go on for much longer yet it’s been 7 months and still no end in sight.
Hang in there. The cracks are starting to show.
I know, but opinion IS shifting. Maureen was a wake up call for the MSM. The BBC showed her interview deliberately to mock her. The feedback was nothing like they expected. We are winning the argument, not because we are louder, but because we are correct. It is very difficult to keep up a ‘fear’ narrative that has run out of steam. The more that people suffer, the less inclined they are to accept a particular narrative. truth always wins in the end.
There is a specific globalist imperative to keep the pandemic going at the moment: the US Presidential election. They want Trump out and Biden in. Biden’s only chance of winning is “with Covid”.
I do hope you are right, but the cult-like beliefs of the maskers unnerve me. Nothings gonna stop me doing all I can, don’t get me wrong.
There will always be ‘hard core believers’ in any situation. The point here is that despite the incessant media propaganda, the Government and so called ‘Opposition’ positions on this, the average person is less convinced than ever. Think about where we were in Spring to where we are now. The Government were initially fighting off accusations of being too slow and not locking down soon enough. I always thought that was a battleground they were happy to fight on. Now, they are battling us. And they are losing.
Yes mostly people towards the end of their careers. In our PC world your career will suffer hugely if you step out of line.
Well I was the first person to post that excellent podcast to this site a couple of days ago – before even Toby posted it to the main page – and yet for some reason an individual just called me a shill. Not sure who I am accused of shilling for!
I’m only here really to hopefully inform the debate, but I don’t always do it perfectly. My only interest is in the truth and putting an end to this charade as soon as possible and in seeing Johnson and his government behind bars.
I don’t always agree with everyone here, but I don’t doubt that most people are against the lockdowns. What hope is there if even here people do not trust each other!
Fair comment, the atmosphere is quite febrile on both side of the argument and the stakes are quite high, you are right we cannot afford to be divided, you only have to to see how the media treated ‘Maureen’ to see why that is the case. I never intended to spend parts of 2020 delving into ONS death statistics and trying to brush up my statistical understanding to get my head around false positives. So do stick with it, this tomfoolery must be stopped.
The shill comment was very off I thought – not everyone may agree with you always, but shill is way wide of the mark
Thanks Julian, I appreciate that.
I’m actually learning a lot about communication here. I’m getting a tougher skin and at the same time not lashing out so much.
Listen to this video, please John P. It’s hard going but is an authoritative source of information
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/10/17/coronavirus-fraud-biggest-crime-against-humanity.aspx
The reason you got called a shill is that you phrase your statements as if you know what you are talking about, but often you don’t. So listen to this and read more from this group.
I agree that it was wide of the mark, but it’s not difficult for an outside observer to see why it happens.
You’ve just downticked a polite and constructive post. That doesn’t help either.
You don’t know who votes for posts.
The reason you got called a shill is that you phrase your statements as if you know what you are talking about, but often you don’t.
lol, good grief. Oh thanks for that. Have you attended charm school Rosie? Should I be flattered?
Well you’re going to have to put up with that, because I’m not going to let anyone silence me.
Actually, I think the person making the accusation had misunderstood something I was saying. I’d not seen comments from that person before.
Maybe it’s you who doesn’t know what you’re talking about!
John, you had an entirely unprovoked go at Rosie on here a couple of days ago. You shouldn’t be surprised if it has lowered her opinion of you. As I said on that day’s page in response to one of your posts complaining that people were trying to silence you, the problem, as far as I can tell, is that you don’t actually read other people’s posts. You often seem to take a few words out of context and attack them, or to conflate the opinions of some with the opinions of all.
My suggestion – well meant, though up to you how you take it – is that you take a minute to reread posts you disagree with and make sure you’re responding to the actual point being made, rather than a different point that your first scan made you think was being made.
All that said, I don’t know why you’re being called a shill either. I’m entirely confident that you are not a shill.
matt, with respect I don’t need this.
I am not interested in Rosie’s opinion of me. I don’t control what anyone here thinks. If she doesn’t like me then I can live with that.
I don’t bear grudges, that’s all you need to know.
The more ‘cases’ there are, the more lpcksowns there are, the closer we get to the crescendo of social and economic breakdown.
It must get worse before it gets better.
https://twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/1320088933238231046/photo/1
GP out of hours calls for influenza like illness. Dotted line are averages over previous yearsHow can we explain the enormous “cases” reported if the GP ILI calls has gone down after the mini peak in Sept? GP ILI calls spotted correctly the April peak. Some might argue that the data goes to only 16th Oct but that day we had 16000 “cases”.
Complementary to Swedenborg’s post is this https://youtu.be/2gMRPJ8kuLk
An extraordinary 23min video which builds on a CDC study to creat a new hypothesis that Influenza has been eradicated from planet us – except Cambodia. The new study has been submitted to the Noble prize committee. Not a dry video, quite unusual if a little eccentric.
The same Cambodia that has no covid deaths.
You for one calchas would be one to appreciate the work that has been done on the new thesis. Give it a watch and inform yourself even more.
That’ll be my last thing to watch before bed.
Yes I do nothing but read Lockdownsceptics.org these days.
Stale restaurant in Edinburgh
Edinburghlive rag reports:
Edinburgh bar and restaurant reveals exciting plans to use ‘socially distanced ski cable cars’
Nearly 1500km, from the French Alps, to Morningside – Edinburgh. Six recycled ski gondolas have descended into their new home with fresh upholstery, twinkly lights, wheels and a table. #niceolation
Posted by RoomFood on Friday, 23 October 2020
The post reads: “Nearly 1500km, from the French Alps, to Morningside – Edinburgh. Six recycled ski gondolas have descended into their new home with fresh upholstery, twinkly lights, wheels and a table. #niceolation.”
Locals responded with anticipation over the new plans, with one local commenting: “Amazing what a great idea when can we start to book?”
–
Tedious embarrasing shit.
Even the DM admitted that there were thousands of anti lockdown protesters in London today even if they were described as conspiracy theorists and law breakers.
Pub and restaurant check-in data hardly used by England’s health officials
Figures for 22,500 venues and at least 268m customer visits suggest just 104 cases have been pursued since summer
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/24/pub-and-restaurant-check-in-data-hardly-used-by-englands-health-officials
The trade body Hospitality UK said a surveyof 568 businesses, covering 12,500 venues and 250m customer visits, suggested 104 cases had been pursued since the summer reopening.
Airship, a data-processing business whose 340 clients include Wetherspoons, Costa and Pret a Manger, said it had registered more than 18m visits to 10,000 venues but only received about 50 requests for data after venues were contacted by health officials.
Wetherspoons, which has 850 pubs, reportedly had 35 of the requests. A spokesperson said: “Data is stored securely for a 21-day period in accordance with GDPR requirements and is then deleted. It is only disclosed to NHS test and trace or other statutory authorities on request.”
Wireless Social, whose clients include Fullers and Yo!, said it had recorded more than 3m customers’ details but had received no requests for data. It described the test-and-trace system as window dressing.
The firm’s chief executive, Julian Ross, said: “I don’t believe they had an infrastructure in the background that was ready to process this data.”
The software developer HGEM, which developed a secure solution for test and trace that was used by BrewDog, among other customers, also said it had received no requests.
The Department for Health and Social Care said: “Maintaining records of staff, customers and visitors is vital to help NHS test and trace identify and contain clusters or outbreaks of Covid-19 linked to particular venues
Read more on link above
All for show
Political theatre
Anyone who tells you it’s a good idea, ask them to explain how it works and show you stats to back it up
It’s conditioning for the future health passport.It can’t work because we don’t have the surveillance apparatus to make it work
The health/digital passport network will be run by AI
Exactly, getting us used to having to scan to enter public venues.
Agreed but really how many people are actually bothering – I make a judgement call about lines of sight etc of the staff and either wave my phone over QR code (I clearly don’t have app) or if I think they can see just sign in via paper method but I do get confused and think I am Matt Hancock … I can see something like air check in being more difficult but right now most people working in hospitality I suspect are more worried about how they keep lights on in the next few weeks
Vaccine then health/digital passport.They have told us this is the direction of travel in the House of Commons.Refuse and no normal life.This is why they are maintaining the fear until the vaccine is ready.
Totally agree. Their own data shows they’ve supposed only identified 7 “risky venues” since the QR crap started.
https://russss.github.io/covidtracker/app.html
As I have an antique Nokia fuelled by coal, I am generally required to write my name and phone number on the back of a piece of paper (an old invoice, a taxi flyer, the head waiter’s shopping list from the summer before last) extracted from a drawer in the corner underneath a stack of laminated menus fallen – since The Events – into desuetude. It’s almost not worth while bothering to write down my number with three bogus digits. Though I always make the effort, on principle.
Someone said the other day that people in hospital with covid die faster than in April.
Is it as they come into hospital more ill than in spring?
Because they have not been monitored for their underlying health conditions as regularly the last few months?
Because they delay going into hospital?
My understanding is that the ones who would have taken a week or so to die are now being treated better and surviving, meaning overall death is down but happening quicker
The article said they are being treated better and dying faster. Go figure!
It’s a statistical artefact where the aggregate doesn’t inform the individual.
That trick is used to confuse people a lot unfortunately
Essentially very sick people still die as fast but less sick people survive, so the mean day of death drops
Thanks Lucan.
The point I was trying to make but much better put
Hard to say as the numbers involved second time around are too small to be statistically significant.
It’s because they already have cancer or have had a heart atatck or a stroke – ie the real cause.
Definition:
covid death = somebody who has tested positive within the 28 days befire death.
I think it is highly doubtful whether anybody is now dying of covid.
Statistical smoke and mirrors.
How do you know that anybody at all is dying of covid?
Apparently a doctor said sth like that during the week?
Just sth that irked me when I looked at dashboard, and anyway, I said with covid. You said of.
Prior to this virus hoo-haa there had been fewer than normal winter respiratory deaths and so statistically there were a number of people still alive who would have otherwise been expected to die, it is thus quite possible that they would have died quite quickly from any respiratory virus.
They’ve had more practice.
Just seen some more Decade of Health adds. It feels so sinister.
Anyone know what it’s about?
Big advert on Piccadilly Underpass.
Bill & Melinda involved so make up your own mind if you think it will be beneficial
Decade smacks of Agenda 2030
Proper creepy
It’s the Gates Foundation
Bloke in Wales fighting back against bonkers restrictions in a supermarket:
https://twitter.com/sapiofoxy/status/1320038245670047749
Good on him!
Cue the MSM turning him into a pantomime villain
Agree. Nearly wept when he was filmed asking angrily something along the lines of “It’s coming up to winter, are these clothes not essential?”
Gwilym Owen. Be a hero for the day sir. Whatever comes next. You took a stand.
Regarding the philosopher wanting a Greta-in reverse, she already exists! Naomi Seibt – she’s on Twitter which I don’t use so perhaps someone can post up some of her Tweets.
I hope the philosophy teacher reads this.
I already have posted her here this week. And unlike Greta, Naomi Seibt is a grown woman (aged 20) and not a child.
Again:
People would rather live in crippling fear than find out that they have been lied to about the threat.
How many mask-wearers are more scared of the mandate and social ostracism than the virus?
St Greta is 17. Hardly a child.
It’s just that she is dressed to look like a 12 year-old.
Her physique suggests lack of normal sexual maturity, probably due to her diet. I suspect she could be anorexic too.
I strongly suspect it is a boy another puppet being used.
Thunberg is being cynically exploited.
I agree!
Oh Greta Thunberg is definitely a child in the laws of most if not all European countries. And an exploited child at that.
If you are 17 then in the United Kingdom you are a child.
18 is the age you become an adult here. But you knew that.
Thunberg is also a child in her native Sweden. I’ve just checked. The age of majority is 18 in that country as well.
Old enough to be legally married though!
I would not say that at 20y old I was a grown woman. I did not feel “grown -up” until my thirties, and really comfortable with myself until 40.
We have lost the concept of adolescents, which is a serious oversight.
Don’t forget, it isn’t so long since you weren’t an “adult” until you were 21.
Given that human frontal lobes aren’t fully developed till the mid-20s, adulthood is a shifting concept.
https://twitter.com/SeibtNaomi
Keeping up the fear porn….Arseholes.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scotlands-youngest-coronavirus-victim-man-22899472
I see tge Dail Ricketts hasn’t moved on.
That comment had nothing to do with the Irish Parliament and should have referenced “Daily Ricketts”.
It is unknown where in Scotland the man is from or whether he had underlying health conditions – there you go, find out first!!!
The following is 100% true.
When my cousins were born twins. One was struggling and got put into an NHS incubator. The incubator was too hot and essentially boiled the baby to death. NHS admitted negligence.
The sun / mirror / Mail / Guardian / Telegraph / a n other / local press / radio / tv never published or said one fucking word about it. Not one.
A baby….
Yet when one single case of Covid happens to a “young” person they can’t wait to publish it…..
Funny old world.
We all have stories. And no family escapes the chronic conditions of life. But getting through it takes a hug, a moment and sharing life.
That’s a terrible story. Inconceivably awful incident!
Yes. And we recognise mistakes are human. we forgive for the greater good, but how the hell do we end up in a situation like this today when everything has failed the poorest so very much and the greater good is just more injustice and more punishment ?
Your cousin was a tragic (and careless) accident but what’s going on today is something else!
So sorry to hear that but yeah – if you don’t fit the narrative, the media don’t give a shit, however bad your suffering.
They are totally callous towards non-narrative suffering.
Thank you. It’s not a recent event. But helps to contextualise the bullshit press. Of course we all probably feel the same about them already, but I find the longer this all goes on the angrier I am getting not just about NOW but also historic things too, things that we have to let go for the greater good. But what was the point of that. I am feeling like if they want the world to change, then I will burn it down for them. Hopefully I will calm down.
I think I understand your sentiment.
A good society doesn’t overvalue grievance but if we are forced to live in a world of competing grievances and fake emotions, then our real grievances and real emotions have to count for something.
First they came for the Welsh, and I did not speak out—because I was not Welsh…
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/13014483/new-tier-4-covid-restrictions-could-close-restaurants/
Because I couldnt speak Welsh?
Cheers OKUK. That made me laugh out loud.
Have you ever been to Wales Baldrick? … it’s a ghastly place. … Never ask for directions in Wales Baldrick, you’ll be washing spit out of your hair for a fortnight.
lol – have Welsh relatives and love the Welsh language…this island’s most authentic link with a very distant past .
Knew him at university.
The answer is “prick”
Only one way apparently.
A lot of people think there’s a pandemic going on, and that lockdowns,masking and anti-social distancing are therefore necessary.
Surely, when there is dicrepancy between how a person (or any creature) perceives the world and how the world really is, then that person (or creature) bears a cost for that erroneous judgement.
I’ve said this before; if it really is a pandemic, it’s a pretty piss poor one.
Yes, amd very many – perhaps the majority, owe more to statistical legerdemain than to medical accuracy.
Indeed. We are all responsible for our judgements.
More and more people are seeing the discrepancies within the narrative eg “deadly disease” – so where are all the deaths.
It’s when the creature is able to force its erroneous view on everybody else that the trouble starts.
How many people saying but there is a pandemic know what the definition is?
They only repeat what they hear from MSM.
From an angry blogpost by John Ward:
Below is an extract from a heart-rending email I received today. I’ve never met this lady, but I do know perfectly well (being myself in the eighth decade) that I have five cancer-suffering friends all of whom are receiving this risible level of “care” from our much-lauded National Health “Service”.
As well as being left to rot by an NHS admin Class unable to grasp the difference between 3 days in bed from Coronavirus and death, the woman concerned has also been active for many years in those movements like BackTo60 and WASPI .
The main point of this post is to give you all a glimpse of the fate that very clearly awaits everyone in the next 10-50 years, depending on your age now…..and to remind everyone that – when it comes to Covid19 management strategy – in reality all major Parties at Westminster are but the creatures of the Unelected State that now has most of the money, power and repressive infrastructure required to stomp on your face.
The same socio-political-administrative élites (who want us to believe that they care about prevention of deaths from a virus that kills 64 people per hundred thousand with an average age of 82) are the same people presiding quite consciously over a massive increase in deaths from genuinely deadly disease.
Does that add up for you?
The same élites (who have persistently lied about the pace of State Pension deferral to over 3.7 million women now finding themselves destitute….and who – from a mixture of depression, stress and poor diet – will also die before their time) are the same people putting masks on kids at school when the chances of their death from C19 are one in 15 million where no other pathogens are involved.
Does that add up for you?
The same controlling classes who just put us through eight years of idiotic austerity in order that a mathematically illiterate Chancellor might impress the markets with his skill in screwing the average in order to prop up the greedy.
Does that add up for you?
I now address the same question to Britain’s media: you deal with, talk to, get leaks from and write Opeds about these people day in and day out.
If you have so much as an ounce of discernment, you must realise that they’re corner-cutting, vote-centric, corrupt and borderline psycho folks who care only about their progress up the greasy pole and the size of their bank accounts.
If you don’t grasp that, then what on Earth qualifications do you have to expound in national media?
If you do grasp that, then you are part of the problem….and one day, the Tumbril will arrive at your door too.
Late at night we get the really furious posts.
What a despicable service for this lady.
Anyone saying, but so many people died with/of covid, I want to spit at them.
Mayhar Tousi
Wales disgrace and London today.
Excellent capture of Britain this very day
https://youtu.be/-FQWnb8QENg
Suggest watching – the tide is turning
Yep tide is turning. I am feeling optimistic. Lots of things feeding in but –
1. Strong evidence of herd immunity being achieved in London and South.
2. No evidence of steep rise in Covid deaths generally around the country.
3. Sceptical arguments getting more media coverage (positioning).
No one has to admit to a mistake. All they have to do is declare victory. It’s pretty obvious,
It hasn’t made a mistake.The population are exactly where they want them;under their heel.
The virus is cover for a political coup and short of massive civil disobedience this will continue.
Excellent, suggest you repost on Sundays page
Was this from here earlier? I’m easily confused.
Anyway, it’s very good:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1319525341615017987
yes, delicious
The President of the German Medical Association had the temerity to state on TV that there is no scientific evidence to support the use of face masks. Immediately, the SPD’s ‘medical expert’ Karl Lauterbach demanded his resignation. Why? Because he genuinely thinks he knows better? Or because Covid has become a cult which tolerates no dissent?
https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/medizin/karl-lauterbach-fordert-aerztekammer-praesident-klaus-reinhardt-zum-ruecktritt-auf-a-6a846ac7-ed4e-465a-90ae-fab9340d4fc1
Unbelievable. This:
“When Lanz then referred to scientific studies from Hong Kong that demonstrate the positive effect of mouth and nose protection”
You know what study he is referring to? The hamster study that was also cited as the top piece of research to defend masks by the top Epidemiologist in Northern Ireland when interviewed for the Nolan show a month or so ago.
https://fightcovid19.hku.hk/hku-hamster-research-shows-masks-effective-in-preventing-covid-19-transmission/
It certainly is a cult and it’s clear now that global public health interventions are being based on hamster studies.
Christ.
How on earth do you get a face mask on a hamster? And keep it on, is it stapled or are the hamsters comatose?
A delightfully unfussy Italian restaurant meal with sister and brother-in-law-to-be tonight. Wasn’t asked for my papers; made token effort to pull neck tube up just to get to our table but the staff clearly couldn’t have cared less, and thereafter we were totally free to roam to the loo or the bar unmuzzled and unchastised; unmasked chef out and about in restaurant towards the end of the evening, talking to customers; we left at 9.55 (because we’d finished) but there were four or five other parties who were still only midway through main courses and who clearly weren’t going to be out by 10, and everyone seemed entirely happy about that.
Refreshing normality.
No names no packdrill but vaguely which area please?
Yorks.
Encouraging!
I love these snippets of normalcy. We need to know that not every business is cowering under the govt’s watchful eye
I reckon that endorsing and encouraging normality is vital – the sceptics’ ‘nudge’ theory.
For all I know Gwilym Owen might have a million reasons why he not “worthy” of praise Yet tonight he has one reason why he is a national hero.
Well done Gwilym. Well done.
Here’s the government’s record since we “took back control”…
I can’t be bothered to go on. I can think of at least 347 more things, but there is only a 5,000 character limit…
These people are taking the piss. If the Queen doesn’t reign in “her” government, then I don’t care how old she is, she should fucking well hang with the rest of them.
blimey, taking no prisoners with your final sentence…!
That nonce factory deserves what is coming to her
I’m probably wasting my time in saying this, but the Queen does not have any power.
This is not an absolute monarchy, it is a constitutional monarchy.
She cannot interfere in Westminster politics.
What’s the fucking point in her then?
It has a lot to do with the complicated history of the United Kingdom and the power struggles between the monarch and parliament.
Royal website:
In a monarchy, a king or queen is Head of State.
The British Monarchy is known as a constitutional monarchy.
This means that, while The Sovereign is Head of State, the ability to make and pass legislation resides with an elected Parliament.
As Head of State The Queen has to remain strictly neutral with respect to political matters.
By convention, The Queen does not vote or stand for election, however Her Majesty does have important ceremonial and formal roles in relation to the government of the UK.
In theory this separation of the head of state from the lawmakers prevents dictatorship. Of course, this year parliament itself has become a dictator.
Well she was a very lucrative tourist attraction before the travel restrictions.
lol, well there is that too!
The point of the Queen is to release pheromones so us worker bees know when it’s time to go collect pollen
She can sack the prime minister. I wish she’d sack Bunter.
No she can’t.
There are usually strict constitutional conventions concerning when these [reserve] powers may be used and these conventions are enforced by public pressure.
Using these powers in contravention of tradition would generally provoke a constitutional crisis.
(Quoting the Scotsman newspaper)
Of course she can. She can sack a PM whenever she feels like it. That is the exact constitutional position. What Parliament or the people might do if they felt her decision was a constitutional outrage is another issue entirely.
No she cannot. She can’t do what she wants when she wants. This is not an absolute monarchy.
Not a constitutional outrage. A constitutional crisis.
The Queen literally appoints the PM. To remove an existing PM all she has to do is appoint another via the kissing of hands ceremony. You seem to nothing about our constitution.
Luckily, (probably the wrong word), no one ever bothered to write down what our constitution actually is. So it’s anyone’s guess really
Well, there is convention. We know that every PM since the beginning of PMs has kissed hands with the monarch before being appointed.
Unless you are going to say our constitution can mean anything you want, that convention is surely important.
Her representative in Oz dismissed Gough Whitlam in ’75 who on the steps of Parliament House said this about the GG, Sir John Kerr, ‘well may we say God Save the Queen, but nothing will save the Governor General’.
Looking at Hoyle’s response to Dolan’s case, I’d say we have a clear constitutional crisis right now.
I agree. But that does not invalidate my point.
Yep and in a constitutional monarchy a monarch has a lot of effective power both formal and informal. I’d put the influence of the monarch as at least that of the average Cabinet Minister but at times it clearly equals or perhaps surpasses that of the PM.
She cannot make laws.
Lawmaking is the principal purpose of government.
Influence is not power.
If, for example, the Queen wanted the speed limit on roads to be 30 mph everywhere could she have that made into a law? No. Only parliament could do that.
We no longer have laws, we have diktats.
Alright, cheezy. I’m calling it a day now. It’s late. Enjoy the rest of your evening.
G’night John!
Influence is clearly power. Look at China with the idea of the “paramount leader” . The paramount leader had no formal powers but led discussion on key policy decisions
The UK is not China.
She can however attend secret meetings which transcend national governments…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bilderberg_participants
Apolitical – my arse.
It’s fair comment. Together with the the Theresa May agreement on Europe and this, she has failed, actuslly betrayed her country big time. As for Charles and company … and I say that as a once staunch royalist.
She literally has no power – what she could theoretically do and what she could actually do are different things. She has one job – don’t be political. And she does it, regardless of what we – or other people – would want her to do.
The alternative? President Blair?
The house of Windsor is not the only option
You went and spoilt your rant with “reign” for “rein”.
The Pedant Liberation Front will be coming after you now.
Bang on Sir, best post on here for a while, we are being hung out to dry, taken for utter mugs and will be paying for this for ever and a day while the spivs will make a mint and laud it over us for ever more in their ivory towers. Time to take to the streets my friends, enough is enough.
I probably got a bit angry there.
Please don’t call me “Sir”, I work for a living
Sorry skipper, your anger resonated.
I was sent a Yougov survey yesterday. One question was Should the Government care more about saving lives than protecting the economy or should they protect the economy at the cost of saving lives? Talk about a loaded question! If there is not a functioning economy how do we save lives?
Alternative question: do you approve of the profession of hitmen?
That is exactly how they get the answers they want! They might just be warm up questions before they pose the formal questions that appear in the published survey. It’s really easy to get the answers you want!
Daily Fail:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875931/Coronavirus-vaccine-weeks-NHS-workers.html
What could possibly go wrong?
I think I’ll pass, thanks.
“I think I’ll pass” = “You’ll have to tie me to the stretcher, stifle my screams, sedate me and forcibly administer it.”
Plus you can’t sue the manufacturers if something goes wrong. I have no doubts that NHS workers will queue for hours to have this jab.
A 5ml syringe full of saline should suffice.
A make-believe vaccine for a make-believe pandemic.
“Protect the NHS”. Inject all the staff with some unknown, untested vaccine. Aye right.
Do ursine mammals defecate in forested areas?
Appalled by how patronising the gmt presenters and dr Sarah Jarvis were of Maureen ‘from barnsley’ and her husband.
Smirking bastards had no comprehension of how insulting they were.
It was actually verging in surreal. The kind of behaviour you might expect from South Korean state television presenters trying desperately to stay on message with ‘the party’
I wanted to smack Dr jarvis’ head right off her shoulders. Disrespectful floozies.
same here…that’s exactly what I thought too! bastards!
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
– Rudyard Kipling.
Wonderful, wonderful stuff John P.
Listen to Joni Mitchell’s version of this where she puts it to music. Beautiful.
The British Army are being drafted in to help enforce coronavirus restrictions in Tier 3 areas as the UK continues to battle the second wave of the pandemic.
Five Army and Navy environmental health officers trained in ‘outbreak management’ were deployed in Liverpool on Friday.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875989/amp/British-army-drafted-Tier-Three-areas-enforce-coronavirus-restrictions.html
Recall a few weeks back the army were to take over security of natiinal protected sites to allow plod to get back on the beat.
This latest creep makes plod look like a bunch of hopeless wankers who need back up from untrained for role armed forces. How embarrasing for the police, rapidly loosing consent.
Of course the armed forces are not welcome on the streets they are not needed, part of the war against the population as being waged by 77 brigade and the evil strategists of SPI-B.
No they aren’t.
More tripe to scare people.
More? Please can you clarify you statement please. You have contrary evidence?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/24/army-drafted-help-covid-response-tier-3-areas-combat-second/
What’s your game PD?
Please ensure the grossly arrogant Richard Pinch sees this. Earlier Mr Pinch attacked me personally for daring to ask after the isolation of the SARS CoV 2 viron, I suggested it appeared to be a missing part of the puzzle. Dick Pinch replied with an arrogance those who have conversed with over these months know is tge best that man has got.
Please ensure Dick Pinch sees this.
“CDC document confirms Principia Scientific International claims there has NEVER been any successful laboratory test to isolate and confirm the existence of the SARS-COV2 virus. In effect, the science tells us there is NO virus.”
https://principia-scientific.com/even-cdc-now-admits-no-gold-standard-of-covid19-virus-isolate/
“Damning CDC document confirms Principia Scientific International claims that there has NEVER been any successful laboratory test to isolate and confirm the existence of the SARS-COV2 virus, alleged to have caused the COVID19 pandemic. In effect, the science tells us there is NO virus!
“This week, former CBS Healthwatch reporter and author of The Matrix Revealed Jon Rappaport obtained the smoking gun from a telling document from the Center for Disease Control which admitted as much.
“In one of their own documents they state quite clearly:
“Since no quantified virus isolates of the 2019-nCoV are currently available, assays [diagnostic tests] designed for detection of the 2019-nCoV RNA were tested with characterized stocks of in vitro transcribed full length RNA…”
“As Rappoport says,
“Since that is the case, that there are no quantified virus isolates, how can one be sure of what is being determined as COVID-19 is, in fact, COVID-19?”
“Principia Scientific International has led the way with this line of argument against the insane and unscientific lockdown policies which have effectively crippled the world economy.”
I’m happy to be shown wrong, but my understanding on all that I have read about Sars-CoV-2 is that it has fulfilled NONE of Koch’s 4 postulates.
In all the reading I have done about the PCR test there is NO indication I have been able to find of what, specifically, the ‘test’ (it’s not a test, it’s a method) is amplifying. It could be ANY coronavirus fragment, or even, given the number of cycles being used, nothing at all related to coronavirus- and that’s before one addresses issues such as false positives.
DavidC
I am also happy to be proven wrong – thank you for adding to debate rather than the opposite.
As just an interested party there appears to be a vacancy where crystal clear facts ought to reside.
Earlier I was asking if a vaccine can be reliably developed from the SARS CoV 2 sequences that are held. I added the viron/strycture seems not to have been identified, it is puzzling to think how tbe viral intraction with immune systems can firstly be replicated then stopped/lessened from a DNA sequence.
The PCR test is as you say. This testing procedure would appear to tie in with the possible lack of isolation.
Koch’s postulates is a much stronger aspect from which to view this situation than my ramblings. Thanks.
Page 39 of CDC document
Who is voting you down?
Jeez, I think I’m going out of my mind now with 10 months of this friccing madness. Please tell me it’s over soon I’m close to the edge.
The tide has turned. They wanted the public fearful, but fear is giving way to anger. Truth will win.
Hang in there Andrea. I spent most of last night emailing politicians with the link to James Delingpole’s interview with Dr Mike Yeadon attached as well as Alan Jones at Sky Oz who is a commentator and quite critical of the federal and state governments’ response to the virus. The reason I did this was I became incensed with a msm news broadcast which not only inferred the virus had caused all this, (nothing to do with governments or advisers etc decisions.), but then stated another $20M would be spent on a different type of testing which would be conducted more regularly on people who didn’t even have any symptoms, prior to work. What? So the same time you are cleaning your teeth, you are testing for virus symptoms you don’t have. What a load of crock. I am now in the process of emailing the broadcaster, (Channel 9) complaining about the unbalanced way they are presenting this news. How many have died today, none. How many have died in the last month, none. How many in hospital, 1. Not on ventilator. How many at home recovering quite nicely thank you very much. You know we are fighting the good fight here. Try not to get too downhearted by what you are seeing or hearing on msm, turn it off if you can, distract with books, walks and badgering the living shit out of these spineless tools in parliament.
Which state are you in, GDU?
You’re not under Andrews, are you?
No, thank the Lord, Ceriain. Would have been arrested by now!! I’m in Sydney.
Certainly better than Melbourne, that’s for sure.
I’ve also popped a couple of emails to Alan Jones during this charade, just to update him and his colleagues at Sky Au. about some of the nonsense we’ve got here in the UK, and to ask him, Adrian Bolt and Paul Murray to keep doing the good work they do.
He’s a smashing bloke; very polite and has replied to all my mails.
That’s great Ceriain. I would love it if he actually got Toby on to have a chat to spread the word in Australia about Lockdown Sceptics. (Maybe he has and I missed it). Toby and Will are doing a great job with this site and the resources and links they put out. I wouldn’t have been able to find any without this site.
Thank you Girl Down Under, your energy and actions are inspiring. I’ve seen so much in the way of lockdown scepticism (James Delingpole interview with Yeadon, plus nearly all of Talk Radio, Peter Hitchins, Ivor Cummins and the German? guy outlining the case against the government locking down) reflecting my thoughts since March, but I was just losing faith that any of it is making a damn bit of difference. However you’ve lifted my spirits that we will be out of this and return to the old normal (when?). Thank you. A
It really got to me last week too Andrea. I think we will be having our moments, sharing on here and then pushing back again and again and again. I have decided to write at least one email a day to a MP or broadcaster. Don’t know when it will be ‘normal’, but it has to be our normal not their new normal. And refusing, refusing to be part of the charade of masks and signing in and QRG’s, track and trace. I have no scientific knowledge whatsoever and struggle to get my head around the clever ones’ posts on here with facts and figures. But like all of us here, I know when something is morally reprehensible which is what is going on in the world right now and it is that fact alone that contents me. Sleep tight.
Thank you, I shall not indulge myself in negativity and foreboding, I shall take my lead from you and be positive, we have to fight support each other and this nonsense. Night night. A
support each other and fight this nonsense
Error
Amen to that.
It’s all good from now on. The pandemic is dying in the UK and lots of other countries. We now know for sure that Lockdowns make hardly any difference to the death toll but non lockdown countries have better economies and better health provision.
Everything is going our way! Multiple reasons to be cheerful!!
Thank you OK UK, the sooner the better especially for the many losing faith. Ax
We didn’t do this when we thought Ebola was the problem, why would we do it now with a ‘flu?
Because it is a massive psychological warfare operation.
You must have heard people saying things like “that’s about as possible as eradicating the common cold” – well, they have convinced people that this is possible if we all just imprison ourselves and trust massive corporations (who really care about us) to come up with a “cure” for the common cold (slash bad strain of flu).
Their one weakness is that they are very very very clever sociopaths who do not really understand what “love” is because they could never experience such an emotion. So they thought they’d be super clever and use love as a weapon against us (“stay away from granny otherwise you will kill her”, “if you don’t muzzle up, you could kill thousands of people you’ve never met” – that sort of thing)
Good luck with that, you bastards! Very very clever, just totally unwise.
We will win this because they are tripping up left, right and centre. Even the most scared, brainwashed simpleton has started to realise they’ve been had.
Be kind to each other (but don’t let the obvious targets off the hook)
It must be annoying to work for years to put all these plans in place just to have a bunch of complete fuckwits wreck the whole thing.
I’m hanging on to what you say ‘We will win this….’ otherwise?
Live free or die.
Prefer the former given the choice, so long as we still have the choice…..’wear a mask, don’t see your family, don’t see your friends, don’t go to the pub, restaurant, gym, holiday, Wales….’ etc
Keep the faith, Andrea.
Captain’s right, and there are an army (small, but growing daily) of us who catch them when they trip up.
Thank you
Not done one of these for a few days. So, just in case the mayor’s tuning in.
London:
Today’s
fakenumbers:Patients in hospital (23/10/2020): 625
Patients on ventilation (23/10/2020): 98
Deaths (22/10 – 16/10): 7, 10, 6, 6, 6, 2, 7
Population: 9.3 millions
Oi, Sad Dick! London’s get herd immunity, mate!
How soon they forget.
Jonathan Van-Tam (Liar!):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-52153145
New page up, kids.
All hail Maureen!
It was marvelous watching her shoot straight from the hip against the mainstream media hacks!
last I looked, in addition to the scientists and medical professionals, around 600,000 thousand members of the public worldwide have signed it.