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Lockdown Rebellion Gathers Strength

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

Boris Johnson’s troubles are far from over as his sceptical backbenchers, emboldened by the concessions won over the Brady amendment, move on to new targets. Their latest is the arbitrary and counterproductive 10pm curfew, which is undermining an already battered hospitality industry. The Telegraph has more.

Boris Johnson is facing a new rebellion on the backbenches, after his Government was accused of presiding over a “nanny state”. 

Philip Davies, the MP for Shipley, told the Commons the 10pm hospitality curfew was doing untold damage to businesses and prompting “jobs to be lost, all just to see people congregating on the streets again”. “When will the Secretary of State act like a Conservative and stop this arbitrary nanny state socialist approach, which is serving no purpose at all apart from to further collapse the economy and erode our freedoms,” he asked Matt Hancock. 

Noting Mr Davies had voted against renewing the Coronavirus Act yesterday, the Health Secretary said the “hundreds of thousands of deaths that would follow is not a price to pay” for his colleague’s preferred option of “just letting it rip”. 

He added: “I do believe in individual responsibility and the promotion of freedom – subject to not harming others.”

The belief that ongoing extreme Government restrictions are all that stand between us and “hundreds of thousands of deaths” is the article of faith at the heart of the Covid cult, the fear that drives the dark side of public health policy. Matt Hancock confirmed this week on Twitter that the Government’s strategy is indefinite suppression until a vaccine arrives.

Which begs the question, as James Forsyth asks in the Spectator, what will they do if one never comes? Even if it does there are lots of uncertainties, as a new report from the Royal Society warns.

A vaccine is often seen as the holy grail that will end the pandemic. But a report, from researchers brought together by the Royal Society, said we needed to be “realistic” about what a vaccine could achieve and when. They said restrictions may need to be “gradually relaxed” as it could take up to a year to roll the vaccine out.

More than 200 vaccines to protect against the virus are being developed by scientists around the world in a process that is taking place at unprecedented speed.

“A vaccine offers great hope for potentially ending the pandemic, but we do know that the history of vaccine development is littered with lots of failures,” said Dr Fiona Culley, from the National Heart and Lung Institute at Imperial College London.

There is optimism, including from the UK government’s scientific advisers, that some people may get a vaccine this year and mass vaccination may start early next year.

However, the Royal Society report warns it will be a long process.

“Even when the vaccine is available it doesn’t mean within a month everybody is going to be vaccinated, we’re talking about six months, nine months… a year,” said Prof Nilay Shah, head of chemical engineering at Imperial College London. “There’s not a question of life suddenly returning to normal in March.”

Dr Andrew Preston from the University of Bath wonders whether compulsion will be required.

“Clearly the vaccine has been portrayed as a silver bullet and ultimately it will be our salvation, but it may not be an immediate process.”

He said there would need to be discussion of whether “vaccine passports” are needed to ensure people coming into the country are immunised.

And Dr Preston warned that vaccine hesitancy seemed to be a growing problem that had become embroiled in anti-mask, anti-lockdown ideologies.

“If cohorts of people refuse to have the vaccine, do we leave them to fend for themselves or have mandatory vaccination for children to go to schools, or for staff in care homes? There are lots of difficult questions.”

Don’t you love how questioning masks is now “ideology”, even though they were opposed by the WHO until June and then recommended despite it being admitted there is “no direct evidence” of the effectiveness of “universal masking of healthy people in the community”?

Defence Select Committee Chairman Tobias Ellwood proposed vaccine passports in the Commons this week, worryingly suggesting the idea is gaining ground.

The politician told the House that he has written to Johnson urging him to use the Ministry of Defence and the army to set up regional distribution hubs as well as to develop a “national database to track progress and issue the vaccination certificates.”

Ellwood, who is Chair of the House of Commons Defence Select Committee, said that vaccination certificates “will probably have to be internationally recognized in order to allow travel, international travel.”

In further eyebrow raising remarks, Ellwood outlined that life will return to normal for those who get the vaccine, whereas those who don’t will still be “subject to social distancing rules”.

All of which shows it is vain to hope the arrival of a vaccine will make this whole nightmare go away while allowing the Government to save face. Like the rebel MPs, we lockdown sceptics must keep pressing our argument that none of these measures are warranted or proportionate so that extreme public health interventions, compulsorily enforced, don’t become the new normal.

Full List of MPs Who Voted Against Coronavirus Act Renewal

The MPs who voted against the renewal of the Coronavirus Act are a curious bunch and rare bedfellows: all the LibDems (actually being liberal for a change), some hardcore Corbynistas, and some seasoned Tory rebels, with a smattering of others. 26 overall: 11 LibDems, seven Conservatives, six Labour, one Green Party and one Alliance Party of Northern Ireland. (From Hansard, with thanks to the reader who put this together for us.)

  • Mr Alistair Carmichael (LibDem Orkney and Shetland: Teller)
  • Wendy Chamberlain (LibDem North East Fife: Teller)
  • Bone, Mr Peter (Conservative Wellingborough)
  • Butler, Dawn (Labour Brent)
  • Cooper, Daisy (LibDem St Albans)
  • Davey, Ed (LibDem Kingston and Surbiton)
  • Davies, Philip (Conservative Shipley West Yorkshire)
  • Farron, Tim (LibDem Westmoreland and Lonsdale)
  • Farry, Stephen (Alliance Party, North Down)
  • Hobhouse, Wera (LibDem Bath)
  • Hollobone, Mr Philip (Conservative Kettering)
  • Jardine, Christine (LibDem Edinburgh West)
  • Jones, Kevan (Labour North Durham)
  • Long Bailey, Rebecca (Labour Salford and Eccles)
  • Lucas, Caroline (Green Party Brighton Pavilion)
  • McVey, Esther (Conservative Tatton)
  • Moran, Layla (LibDem Oxford West and Abingdon)
  • Olney, Sarah (LibDem Richmond Park)
  • Spellar, John (Labour Warley)
  • Stone, Jamie (LibDem, Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)
  • Stringer, Graham (Labour Blackley and Broughton)
  • Swayne, Sir Desmond (Conservative New Forest West)
  • Twigg, Derek (Labour Halton)
  • Walker, Sir Charles (Conservative Broxbourne)
  • Wilson, Munira (LibDem Twickenham)
  • Wragg, Mr William (Conservative Hazel Grove)

We salute you!

No Panic Second Time

Fraser Nelson in the Telegraph points out that the mood in the country is changing, as seen in people’s behaviour if not in what they say.

Shops are just as busy, footfall is no lower since the second wave started – and consumer spending is back to about where it was before the virus. As are seats filled in restaurants. This is not a story of hedonism or recklessness: masks are being dutifully worn, hand sanitiser squirted and elbows bumped everywhere. Even Matt Hancock’s Covid app has been downloaded 14 million times. But there are not many signs that the fear inside No10 – of a second wave even larger than the first – is being shared in the country more widely.

This is what takes us to the politically dangerous territory. People tell opinion pollsters that they like restrictions – but they vote with their feet, and most are making their way to work. With almost a million jobs gone, and perhaps another million about to go, the economy has overtaken health as the subject that most concerns voters. People worry about their friends’ jobs, as well as their own. People who aren’t really fussed about eating out are doing so because they care about the survival of the pubs, restaurants and the local jobs that they wish to support. And if Government imposes another lockdown, while being unable to provide a shred of evidence about the efficacy, things may get tricky.

Rebellions are afoot in Marseille and Madrid, and now in Middlesbrough where the mayor Andy Preston came out against the local lockdown:

I have to tell you I think this measure has been introduced based on factual inaccuracies and a monstrous and frightening lack of communication, and ignorance. I do not accept the statement at all. I do not accept these measures. We need to talk to Government, they need to understand our local knowledge, expertise and ability to get things done, and preserve jobs and well-being. We are really disappointed. As things stand, we defy the Government and we do not accept these measures.

800 students attended a party in Coventry, with many saying that they just wanted to get Covid over and done with. As Kate Andrews asks in the Spectator, could this be the start of the lockdown rebellion? We certainly hope so.

Stop Press: The latest figures from Imperial’s React study show the “second wave” may already be slowing, with the rate of growth down from 1.7 in late August to 1.1 last week. Oddly, notes Ross Clark in the Speccie, there’s a big unexplained discrepancy between the React figures (which estimates that there were 411,000 “cases” in the week ending September 26th) and the ONS figures (estimated 103,600 in week ending September 19th). Doesn’t this just show how dubious our data and models are? Reported cases fell again yesterday, leaving the last week looking rather flat. In Madrid, hospital occupancy has now been falling continuously for a week. The second ripple is fizzling out, and not because of anything governments have done. When will the Government and their advisers admit it?

Dentists Not “Open For Business”

Following our story yesterday about the difficulties people are having in getting diagnosed for a serious medical condition in our “world-beating” National Covid Service despite Dr Chris Whitty insisting the NHS is “open for business”, a reader has sent us the letter she wrote to her MP about having the same problem seeing a dentist.

It says in the press and according to the Prime Minister’s press conference that the NHS is open for business.

I don’t think it is. I’ve just called our dentist and my seven year-old can’t be seen unless in extreme pain. She has a filling in a baby tooth and I was told we needed to keep an eye on it and get it checked regularly as the filling has a tendency to fall out. It is currently black and I suspect it has fallen out.

Now I’m told we cannot get an appointment. I have to wait to see if her tooth becomes severely rotten or she has an infection or other serious problem before my seven year-old can be seen by the dentist.

So I beg to differ that the NHS is “open for business”. It seems a child could be at risk of serious illness before they might be seen. I do hope the situation isn’t the same in hospitals. If people are waiting unnecessarily for other treatments then it seems that Covid restrictions are now causing more harm than they are purportedly preventing. I hope the restrictions and consequences of them are not unnecessarily disproportionate, although I’m now concerned they are.

Herd Immunity Gains Ground

A professor of genetics and data science has been in touch to point us to some new research some people in his field are doing into herd immunity. The professor, who wishes to remain anonymous, is pleased this research is going ahead. He told Lockdown Sceptics:

The idea of collective (or “herd”) immunity and how it might be at play in the Covid pandemic is being increasingly debated. It is very hard to tease this out, not least because the Government still refuses to publish the number of tests performed per day for each different geographical regions, while it simultaneously emphasises counts of ‘cases’ rather than percentages of positive tests. Nevertheless, when one considers the very poor correlation between lockdown severity and the scale of the outbreak in different places around the world, and by noting how secondary waves pretty much everywhere seem relatively short-lived and mild compared to the earlier outbreaks, then one cannot avoid suspecting that collective immunity may be at play. 

That said, we must still be cautious. If herd immunity is helpfully doing its best to come to our rescue: (i) we still do not know how long such immunity will last (though SARS T-Cell immunity lasts at least 17 years); (ii) the significance of “Long-COVID” is still to be fully understood (though there is no reliable data today proving it to be a major problem); and (iii) many regions of the UK experienced only a very mild first wave (and so could be at major risk for a very large outbreak this winter). 

Therefore, given what we do and do not know about collective immunity at the present time, there is no justification for throwing caution and social distancing measures out of the window. But equally, the evidence does argue that increasingly extreme measures are not merited. Furthermore, there is every reason to intensify research into Covid collective immunity, to compel the Government to release all the data that analysts need to do such research, to universally talk in terms of percentage positivity rates (rather than case counts), and to start focusing more on death rates rather than mainly on levels of infection.

I think many Lockdown Sceptics readers would be more than ready to throw social distancing out the window. But the research is certainly welcome and will, we hope, put herd immunity to COVID-19 on a surer scientific footing.

University Punishes Students For Being Asleep

In a new low, when you didn’t think universities could be any crueller, the University of Southampton has decided to penalise an entire hall of residence, including those asleep at the time of the misdemeanour. A reader writes:

A number of students from Chamberlain halls decided to have a bit of a night out, breaking both Government guidelines and the University’s code of conduct. 

Of course, the University condemned this, but what was particularly shocking was the nature of their response. They issued a letter to the entire hall of residence, some 356 bedrooms, stating that all students would be receiving a permanent reference to the event on their disciplinary records, saying that even those who did not attend would still receive one because they failed to snitch on their fellow students. Suffice to say having a disciplinary record is no laughing matter.

The student body is outraged as many residents were completely unaware or even asleep at the time of the gathering as the hall sprawls across five separate blocks.

The student magazine Wessex Scene has the story in more detail as well as a screenshot of the full letter sent to residents.

Nice to see universities demonstrate that given an excuse they really don’t mind doling out a mass punishment to whole sections of their presumably already pretty anxious and frustrated freshers, all while charging them nine grand for the privilege. 

Swiss Doctor’s Charts

The Swiss doctor has put up a new post entitled “Covid: The Big Picture in Seven Charts“. Well worth a read, but here is the best one which compares Covid deaths this year with all-cause mortality.

Stop Press: Trump and the First Lady have tested positive and are self-isolating.

Round-Up

Love in the Time of Covid

We have created some Lockdown Sceptics Forums, including a dating forum called “Love in a Covid Climate” that has attracted a bit of attention. We have a team of moderators in place to remove spam and deal with the trolls, but sometimes it takes a little while so please bear with us. You have to register to use the Forums, but that should just be a one-time thing. Any problems, email the Lockdown Sceptics webmaster Ian Rons here.

Update: Some of you have asked how to link to particular stories on Lockdown Sceptics. The answer used to be to first click on “Latest News”, then click on the links that came up beside the headline of each story. But we’ve changed that so the link now comes up beside the headline whether you’ve clicked on “Latest News” or you’re just on the Lockdown Sceptics home page. Please do share the stories with your friends and on social media.

Woke Gobbledegook

We’ve decided to create a permanent slot down here for woke gobbledegook. Today, Tom Slater in the Spectator explains what is so galling about the latest utterance from the Prince and Princess of Woke.

Hot on the heels of their thinly-veiled intervention in the US election, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have called for an “end to structural racism” in the UK, via a new initiative they’ve launched in collaboration with the Evening Standard.

To mark the beginning of Black History Month in the UK, Harry and Meghan have unveiled a list of “BHM Next Gen Trailblazers”– that is, black Brits who are making a difference in arts, politics and culture, chosen in turn by some of the Sussexes’ favourite black British artists, politicians and cultural figures.

Scratch beneath the surface, though, and this initiative seems as much about celebrating black British talent as it is about “educating” the supposedly uneducated population, who the royal couple seem to think are insufficiently aware of the contributions made by Brits of African and Caribbean backgrounds.

The couple gave a Zoom interview to the Standard from their £11m mansion in California, all in the cringeworthy style to which we’ve become accustomed: Harry recites tired talking points in the manner of a man reading a hostage letter, while Meghan stares at him, smiling.

The list, Harry says, is an “opportunity to introduce Brits to other Brits that they might not know about”, adding that even in London “if you actually get out on the streets and talk to people… it doesn’t feel as diverse as it actually is”. Meghan goes on to defend Black Lives Matter against accusations it is “inflammatory”.

I must have missed all the times BLM condemned unequivocally the violence and rioting being carried out in its name. Perhaps this is why, according to YouGov, 48% of Brits want Harry and Meghan stripped of their royal titles, while just 27% think they should keep them.

“Mask Exempt” Lanyards

We’ve created a one-stop shop down here for people who want to buy (or make) a “Mask Exempt” lanyard/card. You can print out and laminate a fairly standard one for free here and it has the advantage of not explicitly claiming you have a disability. But if you have no qualms about that (or you are disabled), you can buy a lanyard from Amazon saying you do have a disability/medical exemption here (takes a while to arrive). The Government has instructions on how to download an official “Mask Exempt” notice to put on your phone here. You can get a “Hidden Disability” tag from ebay here and an “exempt” card with lanyard for just £1.99 from Etsy here. And, finally, if you feel obliged to wear a mask but want to signal your disapproval of having to do so, you can get a “sexy world” mask with the Swedish flag on it here.

Don’t forget to sign the petition on the UK Government’s petitions website calling for an end to mandatory face nappies in shops here.

A reader has started a website that contains some useful guidance about how you can claim legal exemption.

And here’s a round-up of the scientific evidence on the effectiveness of mask (threadbare at best).

Stop Press: A new scientific preprint exposes yet another health problem with habitual mask wearing: all the loose material on them that will be inhaled and create “potential pathological consequences of foreign bodies in the lungs”.

Samaritans

If you are struggling to cope, please call Samaritans for free on 116 123 (UK and ROI), email [email protected] or visit the Samaritans website to find details of your nearest branch. Samaritans is available round the clock, every single day of the year, providing a safe place for anyone struggling to cope, whoever they are, however they feel, whatever life has done to them.

Shameless Begging Bit

Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the past 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. Doing these daily updates is hard work (although we have help from lots of people, mainly in the form of readers sending us stories and links). If you feel like donating, please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links we should include in future updates, email us here.

And Finally…

Toby had lunch with Laurence Fox on Monday and talked about his new party, Reclaim. Here’s an excerpt from his Spectator column this week.

More importantly, Reclaim doesn’t have to win anywhere in order to make a difference. Ukip only managed to win a single parliamentary seat, yet it achieved its main political objective. All Laurence needs to do is persuade the Conservative party that if it doesn’t become more robust on culture war issues it will lose votes to him in Red Wall seats. Not enough for Reclaim to win, but enough for Labour to come up through the middle.

And Laurence’s initiative has already had a backbone-stiffening effect on No. 10, with its comms team frantically briefing out that Boris was planning to appoint Charles Moore to run the BBC and Paul Dacre to run Ofcom at the same time that the story broke about the new party. With his backbenchers growing restive, Boris is particularly vulnerable to the charge that he hasn’t done enough to protect Britain’s statues and monuments from marauding gangs of Black Lives Matter protestors or to defend Britain’s history from those who portray it as an unending litany of exploitation and oppression. If the new party starts creeping up in the polls, Boris will have to do something to shoot Reclaim’s Fox.

Worth reading in full.

Comments

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1.8K Comments
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Oldest Most Voted
BTLnewbie
BTLnewbie
6 years ago

It’s a bad day for anti-maskers with Trump hospitalised and the “I told you so”-ers out in force.

However, thanks so much to BeBop for this link sent yesterday:
https://youtu.be/AQyLFdoeUNk
It’s the video debate between Kyle Johnson and Denis Rancourt on the efficacy of masks in late July.

The science may be up in the air (tho’ clearly coming down on the side of ‘masks don’t work’) but the fanatical approach of KJ – the pro-masker – is something to behold. All the BTL comments indicate that he has lost the plot.

In brief, the argument is:
“It stands to reason that masks must work – any downsides are irrelevant – tens of thousands of lives would be saved and the virus stopped in 4 weeks if we all wore them!”
versus
“The scientific evidence is so weak that the precautionary principle argues against a major new health intervention, ie mandating masks, which may have downsides”

The comments below the video are a delight!

nfw
nfw
6 years ago

The University of Southampton doesn’t appear to be a university for adults, it appears to be an overdone boarding school run by the like minded small petty bureaucrats who think they are American. Interfering busy bodies who would have worked very hard for the Gestapo and Stasi

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago

“If Typhoo put the T in Britain who put the **** in Scunthorpe?”

Please repost, we need a laugh this miserable Saturday morning

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago

Last !

mj
mj
6 years ago

THE WEEKEND IS HERE
https://dailysceptic.org/2020/10/03/latest-news-152/#comments

Another day .. another pile of horseshit

The Spingler
The Spingler
6 years ago

Tescos yesterday. I was perusing the gin selection. A couple came along with a member of staff. They were asking his advice as to what liquors he recommended as they were having a party this weekend for around 8 to 10 people. Staff member being very helpful. He wasn’t wearing a mask. The male customer wasn’t either. His female partner had one on under her nose. I felt like shaking all their hands.

Tim Bidie
Tim Bidie
6 years ago

Does anyone know, are NHS still using PCR cycle threshold of 40, as per their SOPs?

https://www.rcpath.org/uploads/assets/90111431-8aca-4614-b06633d07e2a3dd9/Guidance-and-SOP-COVID-19-Testing-NHS-Laboratories.pdf

Cecil B
Cecil B
6 years ago

Vueling the budget airline is a fraud

I won’t bore you with the details

Impossible to get them to pay money back

2 pence
2 pence
6 years ago

“It’s not as if I haven’t been trying very hard to call out this error / fraud on the people all summer long.
Vallance KNEW mass testing of the mostly symptomless returns almost nothing but false positives. And he did this all summer, for what purpose? It was to keep you scared.

…great crime has been committed. That is vital & must not be slithered away from.”

https://twitter.com/MichaelYeadon3/status/1312089530208583686

BobT
BobT
6 years ago

If Trump croaks, we are all fooked. The fear level will go from orange to flashing red and western society will self destruct completely.

Ann
Ann
6 years ago
Reply to  BobT

The odds are hugely against that outcome,

BobT
BobT
6 years ago
Reply to  Ann

Agree, but apparently they are feeding him with all kinds of untested antiviral drugs which might kill him off anyway. The result is the same.

Cecil B
Cecil B
6 years ago

The dictator says our discipline became frayed, reinforcing his narrative that it was all our fault

Or did it start to dawn on people that they had been led up the garden path by a bluffer and bullshiter?

Mark H
Mark H
6 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

He also talked about how muscle memory and, basically, how we forgot to be completely obedient to government orders.

coalencanth12
coalencanth12
6 years ago

I was in a conservative club earlier. One of the 80 something customers throws a hand sanitiser across the room at 10pm and says ‘if Boris was here I would slap him’. I hope this brings some joy…

Ann
Ann
6 years ago
Reply to  coalencanth12

It does.What a pity the bastard wasn’t there.

court
court
6 years ago

Just wore a mask for the first time. Hailed an Uber after seeing friends and just wanted to go home without aggro. Damn they’re everything I thought they were. Dehumanising, restrictive, made my glasses steam up, made my ears ache. Always moving so have to touch them all the time. I certainly won’t be making a habit of it.

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
6 years ago
Reply to  court

Why?

L835
L835
6 years ago
Reply to  court

Your glasses steamed up from exhaled water vapour. The virus is spread in exhaled water vapour. Proof conclusive that masks don’t work!

Draper233
Draper233
6 years ago

The CDC state that up to 26th September there were 191,211 Covid-19 deaths in the US.

But how many of these had Covid-19 as the only cause mentioned? 6%.

For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

ziggee
ziggee
6 years ago

Apparently Trump testing positive is now conclusive proof that masks work.
This is the level of stupidity we’re having to deal with.
Never mind the fact that not wearing one for the past six months hadn’t led to him becoming infected . Or thousands of people who are wearing masks currently, have contracted the virus.
These facts are clearly to complex for our friends in the Media to compute.

Lisa from Toronto
Lisa from Toronto
6 years ago
Reply to  ziggee

I knew that was going to be the media spin on it. Frankly, I’m surprised it took this long for him to get it. Maybe we’ll get lucky and Biden will end up positive after the initial negative, or someone else who got close but always wears a mask.

Nicky
Nicky
6 years ago

If they were it wouldn’t be reported

RyanM
RyanM
6 years ago
Reply to  ziggee

Also, he has generally been wearing the damned mask.

DThom
DThom
6 years ago

Judging by the comments on local North East mail site the people are starting to rise up!

jim j
jim j
6 years ago
Reply to  DThom

Where can we see them??

skipper
skipper
6 years ago
Reply to  MsStroppster

Any context?

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
6 years ago
Reply to  skipper

My mother always taught me not to accept links from strangers.

Tee Ell
Tee Ell
6 years ago
Reply to  Tee Ell

To the downvoter, it was a joke, but the real point is a brief summary wouldn’t hurt.

A. Contrarian
A. Contrarian
6 years ago

So we’ve had track and trace or variations of it for quite some time now, all over the world.

Surely after 7 months there is some evidence as to the likelihood of asymptomatic spread? The deathly silence on this subject makes me think that it is indeed very rare, otherwise it would be trumpeted from the rooftops.

OKUK
OKUK
6 years ago
Reply to  A. Contrarian

I disagree. I think it’s very common. But by definition if will be a much more difficult phenomenon to follow.

Lee23
Lee23
6 years ago
Reply to  A. Contrarian

Quite a lot of evidence based reporting has dropped off since July. Whereas by now we should be able to support the 40+ years of science that show face coverings do not work, there has been nothing of standing to do so. It’s like everyone’s accepted the position as of June and that’s that.

RyanM
RyanM
6 years ago
Reply to  Lee23

Pretty much

James Leary #KBF
James Leary #KBF
6 years ago
Reply to  A. Contrarian

Immunity spreads asymptomatically. They are trying to ness with nature.

Ianric
Ianric
6 years ago
Reply to  A. Contrarian

I have raised the issue of asymptomatic spread in previous posts and I feel addressing whether asymptomatic spread exists is critically important. I am surprised that lockdown opponents have not dealt with this issue. Toby Young has not written about this in any article and no articles which are linked to this site have dealt with asymptomatic spread. Simon Dolan has not mentioned this. Healthy asymptomatic people are regarded as just as infectious as sick symptomatic people. With people who have tested positive but were asymptomatic has anyone who was in close contact with them fallen I’ll. Are there tests to see if someone is infectious. We are told coronavirus spreads through droplets when people cough or sneeze. Can mouth swabs or other testing methods determine if people are infectious.

leggy
leggy
6 years ago
Reply to  Draper233

Pretty close to the bone. Would like to discuss the whys with him over a bottle of wine.

Draper233
Draper233
6 years ago
Reply to  leggy

I would summise that rather than a conspiracy he believes Johnson, and especially the likes of Hancock, are so intoxicated with the power they now wield, they just cannot bear to give it up.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago
Reply to  Draper233

Surely he describes how a totalitarian state is formed?

Draper233
Draper233
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Indeed, but I assumed leggy was speculating on why Forsyth thinks the government would go in this direction. After all, Johnson was supposedly something of a libertarian.

Uncle Monty
Uncle Monty
6 years ago

Glad to see that Rod Liddle has finally turned around. (As Toby predicted.)
i am sure he will become a very useful sceptical asset.
I am happy to welcome anybody who can accept the errors of their thinking.
They often become the most evangelical once the scales fall off their eyes.
Good on you Rod!

PhilipF
PhilipF
6 years ago
Reply to  Uncle Monty

Very late, but must be generous.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago

Dom Joly thought a bit of easy virtue signalling wouldn’t hurt his reputation. Whoops. He posted a picture of a ‘no masks not welcome sign’. Dom specifically circled the sign’s small print telling people who are exempt to stay home and keep out of the way of others who wear masks. Dom Joly added “chapeau” to the picture and tweeted.

A thread following shows people have had enough. Here’s the link to dom joly’s tweet.
https://twitter.com/domjoly/status/1311992806500696065?s=20

Here’s just one exchange at the start of a long series of 400+ unexpected. Something to bear in mind when considering hipster demigod Dom Joly in future.

Dr –
I know someone who cannot wear a mask due to autism. Can he not eat out then?

Darryl Simpson
He can still carry the virus or pass it on, so no, not at this location.

Dr –
That’s discrimination against mental health.

Darryl Simpson
No, it isn’t. You are twisting the facts to fit your own agenda. If he carried the virus and in so doing killed your parents would you still think it’s ok?

Dr –
I’s forgive him. They are, after all, his grandparents.

Darryl Simpson
Like I said twisting the facts!… Read more »

Stefarm
Stefarm
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

He’s a wanker, about as funny as a cold sore

Recusant
Recusant
6 years ago
Reply to  Stefarm

A cold sore is a virus. A very nasty virus called herpes that we have lived with for thousands of years. That’s life, isn’t it?

Stefarm
Stefarm
6 years ago
Reply to  Recusant

It is for me as I live with it and surprisingly haven’t had an outbreak throughout this shit show. Maybe I should self isolate forever just in case

chaos
chaos
6 years ago
Reply to  Stefarm

Half of all adults have oral herpes. Perhaps a tenth of adults have genital herpes.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago
Reply to  Stefarm

Couldn’t have put it better myself!

Draper233
Draper233
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Well, to be fair, I did read that the obese are at risk….

AngloWelshDragon
AngloWelshDragon
6 years ago

Not a good day today. Made the mistake of glancing at local social media. A man with asthma and severe COPD was ejected from an RSPCA charity shop in nearby Burton on Trent for not wearing a mask. The manager has made a “no exemptions” rule. This news in the Derby Telegraph brought out all the mask fanatics and the vitriol was horrible. Basically anyone who genuinely can’t wear a mask should never leave home. As someone who doesn’t mask on both philosophical grounds and medical I am finding the experience of shopping more and more stressful because hostility is definitely on the rise. Stress is not good for my Graves’ disease hyperthyroidism and I have a history of thyrotoxicosis pushing my heart rate and oxygen demand through the roof. Thanks to the NHS not being interested in anything other than COVID I haven’t seen either of my consultants since January having had both 6 monthly appointments cancelled.

I work from home, I probably see 6 people in a typical week and I only go out to manage my horses and shop at Sainsbury’s once a week when I socially distance and avoid busy times. This government I voted… Read more »

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago

About time someone made that charity shop aware of the equality act!

AngloWelshDragon
AngloWelshDragon
6 years ago
Reply to  Carrie

Complaints have been made. The manager says she’s doing what she has to do to keep her staff safe. There’s no reasoning with these people, they have glugged that kool aid!

Basics
Basics
6 years ago

Wow Anglo – my post on Dom joly just now fits your post well. A campaign afoot by influencers to go deeper harder on the social shaming pethaps?
Nudge and spi-b?

AngloWelshDragon
AngloWelshDragon
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Great post on Dom Joly. Good to see his virtue signalling not going down as expected!

Paul
Paul
6 years ago

Don’t be sorry for the moan,we all need to vent about the madness.Surely no shop can make up it’s own no exemptions rule ?,we need someone with deep pockets to fund a case brought against a shop for breaking the Equalities act.
I find that a quite a few managers that run charity shops are complete arseholes at the best of times.

RickH
RickH
6 years ago

‘Charity’ Shop? Wh at a sad joke.

Don’t feel sorry for the moan. What you’ve experienced is disgusting, and the perpetrator irremediably stupid.

Mrs issedoff
Mrs issedoff
6 years ago

You don’t need to apologise, just as I won’t for saying that there are people now that I would happily string up. I sometimes want to crawl into my bed and not come out, these people are beyond help and my contempt for them is immeasurable.

Lisa from Toronto
Lisa from Toronto
6 years ago

Venting is good! This is the right place to do it. For my own sanity I don’t go into stores unless I know they’ll respect the mask exemption. The level of compliance here is so high that I don’t need to end up in a shouting match with anyone. My mask limit is 5 minutes so I sometimes pop in and out of a store with my I’M BEING FORCED TO WEAR THIS mask so at least I can register my disgust. Take solace in your family and stop going to the shops if it’s more trouble than it’s worth and negatively impacting your health — if it comes to that in the shop you frequent.

Rosser
Rosser
6 years ago

I got a “Make America Great Again” cap on eBay. Wearing it with no mask seems to work well enough. Haven’t had anyone try to challenge me in the shops thus far!!

Ann
Ann
6 years ago

Report any and every unpleasant experience to the police and local council. It’s hate crime.

crimsonpirate
crimsonpirate
6 years ago

comment image

crimsonpirate
crimsonpirate
6 years ago
Reply to  crimsonpirate

here you go copied from the BBC website- he’s gone grey!

Cicatriz
Cicatriz
6 years ago
Reply to  crimsonpirate

Looks colour filtered to me.

The Filthy Engineer
The Filthy Engineer
6 years ago
Reply to  Cicatriz

The face or the hair?

Cicatriz
Cicatriz
6 years ago

The whole picture. It doesn’t look quite right to me.

Sarigan
Sarigan
6 years ago

Trump going to hospital.

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago
Reply to  Sarigan

Source?

AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
6 years ago
Reply to  Sarigan
Jonathan Castro
Jonathan Castro
6 years ago
Reply to  Sarigan

Just as a precaution

Sarigan
Sarigan
6 years ago

It appears so. Bit odd when they have full medical facilities at WH. Hope it doesn’t end badly.

chaos
chaos
6 years ago
Reply to  Sarigan

oh please.. it’s propaganda.. Boris didn’t have it.. and Trump isn’t ill either…

Silke David
Silke David
6 years ago

Headline on German tv station website:
80 people ILL in care home…..
80 residents and staff tested positive.
So they are NOT ill!!
Sent a complaint.

crimsonpirate
crimsonpirate
6 years ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54392187
i remember this line put out after 7/7
“this is what happens when people drop down their guard”

AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
6 years ago

Blimey! Even chief lockdown bedwetter Rod Liddle has seen the light!

Rod Liddle supports the Middlesbrough mayor: “They have no trust whatsoever in Westminster”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lfOgWOGJBs

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago

Liddle is spot on about the lack of opposition!

Now More Than Ever
Now More Than Ever
6 years ago

Really want to move to Middlesbrough.

skipper
skipper
6 years ago

Too liddle to late from him unfortunately.

Sir Patrick Vaccine
Sir Patrick Vaccine
6 years ago

Share this – Important Viral Update for UK – but applies to many countries!
Ivor Cummins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeqGtyptonI

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago

2 minutes of excellent info!

AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
6 years ago

Richard M is a jeffing hero. Recommend this clip –

Lockdown sceptic Richard Madeley: Covid-19 press conferences are “naked media manipulation”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1T9QQMMyXg

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