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“We Will Fight It In The Pubs, We Will Never Surrender”

The Prime Minister tried to put on his best Churchill impression yesterday and ended up sounding preposterous as he dug in to “fight and defeat” the virus.

“I know some people think we should give up and let the virus take its course despite the huge loss of life that may entail,” he said in the televised briefing.

“I profoundly disagree. I don’t think the British people want to throw in the sponge, they want to fight and defeat this virus.”

He said that “we will not hesitate” to introduce further measures, but stressed the Government is hopeful that these will not be needed.

Huge loss of life? Right, like in Sweden, where fewer people died per million than in the UK, and Belarus, where fewer people died, and South Dakota, where fewer people died, and Tanzania, where – you get the idea. Since none of these countries or states, however lax their response, lost more than 0.06% of their population to the virus, and the second ripple in Spain was on the wane prior to any new restrictions being brought in (hospital occupancy in Madrid fell yesterday for a third day in a row), on what basis are we supposed to believe that loosening restrictions will lead to a “huge loss of life”? Where did the ludicrous idea come from that we can “control” or “defeat” this virus, which is akin to the common cold?

Meanwhile, Sir Patrick Vallance claimed the virus is not “under control” and defended his graph of doom.

“The illustration was to point out that epidemics either double or halve, they’re either growing or shrinking,” he says. “And doubling means things go very big very quickly. And when things double you see that exponential growth and there’s clearly fast growth in some areas.

“And unfortunately as we’ve seen not only cases going up, but we’re already seeing an increase in deaths. So things are heading in the wrong direction.

“The number of cases that we’re seeing now are picked up because there’s much more testing. The number of cases reported in March were almost an underestimate of the total. So it’s much more likely in March and April we were seeing 100,000 cases a day at certain times.”

But it simply isn’t the case that the COVID-19 epidemic has been either doubling or halving over the past nine months – that is a misrepresentation of the data that feeds into the Government narrative that it is either growing “exponentially” and out of control or it is in decline, supposedly because of timely Government interventions. In fact, the case and death curves in different countries show only very brief periods where the figures could be said to be “doubling”, as Professor Michael Levitt has shown. Thus while UK “cases” are currently rising, the rate of that rise has already slowed down from a couple of weeks ago, and the Telegraph has calculated there will be only 11,000 daily cases by mid October, assuming the current rate continues, rather than Vallance and Whitty’s 50,000. Since the rate has already been slowing there is no reason to think it won’t slow further.

The rate of growth does vary considerably around the country – Ross Clark looks at the possible reasons for this in the Spectator, highlighting especially population density and household size. But seeing as the epidemic in March went into decline in many parts of the UK prior to lockdown coming in, as Prof Carl Heneghan observed in June, the current ripple, insofar as it involves real spread and not just false positives from increased testing, is likely to consist mainly of cities and regions developing the herd immunity delayed by the lockdown.

Note also the slippery definition of “cases”. Vallance suddenly used “case” to mean infection when he says there were 100,000 a day in March. In fact, one of the central problems in this whole farrago has been a loose, non-medical definition of “case”. A case properly understood must be diagnosed by a suitably qualified clinician recognising characteristic symptoms. A mere positive test, which may well be a false positive and in any case may be asymptomatic, is not properly speaking a case of COVID-19. Neither is the mere fact of “infection” or exposure if no symptoms are present.

To make matters worse, Dr Chris Whitty then started speaking in contradictions.

Hospitalisations follow very much the pattern you would expect from the rates of infection. The NHS data show that the rates of hospitalisation are now climbing steadily.

“They’re at a much lower level than at the beginning of April – I want to stress that quickly – but they are heading upward at a steady and rapid pace.”

So are they steady or are they rapid? You can’t have both. They are steady, of course, which is why he said it first, before realising he was supposed to be justifying extreme interventions so quickly added “rapid”.

The positive rate in the UK went up from 1.5% on September 19th to 2.5% on September 29th, a two thirds rise (67%) in 10 days (though on the most recent day it actually declined slightly). This is steady but not rapid growth, and if it is anything like Spain it will top out before long.

Could it be that the “second wave” is just the usual round of “freshers’ flu”, watched unusually closely, now with added Covid? Perhaps “Churchill” has picked the wrong enemy this time.

More From Trafalgar Square

A Lockdown Sceptics reader writes to tell us of his experience at the protest in Trafalgar Square last weekend.

 I was at the top near the stage, thankfully just to the side of the police’s path.

We had been briefed not to antagonise the police under any circumstances and the organisers had stressed the lengths they had gone to complete the necessary paperwork and liaise with police. They made announcements every 20 minutes to social distance (which were obviously met with derision). We held a perfectly observed minutes silence for the recently fallen officer and the sergeant in charge was praised for his constructive approach to the event.

The police have claimed that we were instructed to disperse but I received no such communication. The last speaker had just started when my wife suddenly commented “where have all the police gone”. It was like the tide had gone out. Minutes later there were screams and shouts as a phalanx of police emerged from a concealed position and marched at pace through the crowd shoving and throwing anyone in their path out the way. We had been instructed to sit down as a sign of passive resistance. Some did so but it led to them being trampled or struck in the head. Secondary lines of police blocked the stairs at either side.

After the police had surrounded the tent, a small minority of understandably angry people jeered and taunted them. These are the pictures you see in the papers. I saw a couple of water bottles being thrown. We made ourselves scarce at this point.

The experience has destroyed any trust I have in the police. They would have known that the speeches were almost finished. It appeared to me to be a deliberate attempt to intimidate and antagonise a peaceful crowd. The reason they attacked was supposedly because we weren’t social distancing, but a number of protests including our own had been allowed to proceed in the month prior. We were causing no damage and no obstruction. Asking us to obey the rules that we are protesting against as we protest is surely absurd and how would such a protest work anyway? We would have to spread ourselves out half way down Whitehall. I cannot see the Westminster authorities permitting a PA system suitable. No doubt they would recommend we just do it over Zoom.

In effect, then, mass protests are de facto illegal in this country in 2020.

I am 36 and this is the second protest I have ever been to. The first protest being the one on August 29th. There is certainly a preponderance of “conspiracy theorists” at these events but my sense is that a larger proportion are ordinary people like myself, angry at the political system and deeply concerned by our loss of liberty and damage to the economy. Regardless, believing something that others do not is not a crime.

Letter to Jacob Rees-Mogg

A reader has sent us the cracking letter he sent to his MP – Leader of the Commons Jacob Rees-Mogg.

I had hoped that by now the Government would be rapidly dismantling the unnecessary controls, but unfortunately their recent actions have only served to increase my concerns.

Does Boris really think that he is King Canute and can “fight” a virus? The evidence is increasingly clear that lockdowns are ineffective (e.g. here). Despite their massive social and economic costs, they simply do not work (quite apart from the disease being of low risk to healthy people).

I had hoped that the Government would at least begin to realise the massive cost of its misguided actions and reconsider the way it has trampled on traditional democratic freedoms and rights. Sadly, this is not the case – and I am heartened to see many Tories finally voicing similar concerns.

I had the highest hopes for Boris and this Government, but unfortunately I now view their Covid response as the worst mistake of any British Government in my lifetime and of utmost significance to both my personal freedom and our future welfare. I am therefore unlikely to be able to support any party or MP backing this dystopian approach to running our country – despite my great admiration for you personally.

I have reiterated some of my key concerns below, so that you can understand why I take this so seriously.

– The arbitrary and tyrannical rule of six prevents me from meeting my family, celebrating Christmas or enjoying any other activities together. Given that we are responsible adults (and the children are zero risk) this is totally unscientific and very cruel. It strikes at the core of social relationships in a way which is unprecedented in our country and totally abhorrent to me. This is a clear power grab by the state, overturning individual family and social relationships in a manner which even communist dictators hesitate to impose.

– The draconian, inconsistent, arbitrary, ineffective and bureaucratic regulations are making daily life increasingly difficult. There have already been over 200 changes (which even the Prime Minister can’t understand) and it now appears that this will continue with no end in sight. (A far cry from the three weeks Boris initially promised to “save the NHS”!) These edicts make no allowance for individual common sense or discretion and infantilise the entire population.

– The regulations have also, in effect, instituted a police state. For the first time ever, police are now mandated to interfere with ordinary family and social life and informers are encouraged and praised, just like a Stasi state. And if that were not enough, Boris has been publicising increasingly draconian fines and the involvement of the military, criminalising family life with a nasty similarity to dictatorships.

– Why does the Government permit such misleading efforts to terrorise the public as seen in the Whitty and Vallance presentation of September 21st? Their projections (presented without any allowance for any questioning or challenge) were dangerously misleading and can already be seen to be completely adrift from reality. Why is the Government still in fealty to advisors generating such dangerously misleading projections?

– The Government appears to be intentionally manipulating the population through fear – for example, still publicising misleading “case’” figures, while failing to provide context and ignoring the reassuringly low death rates (which are now far lower now than flu or pneumonia).

– This so called Conservative Government is presiding over unprecedented increases to state controls and regulation of social and economic affairs.

– There appears to be blind faith in the public health services and the NHS, despite increasingly clear shortfalls in patient care – in sad contrast to the high-quality, patient-focused services enjoyed in so many other countries.

– The Cabinet appears to be suffering from groupthink and blatantly ignoring eminent and sensible scientific voices (for example, at the Oxford Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine) providing views based on evidence and reason and instead is promoting the worst case models and discredited projections.

– The Government restrictions (not Covid) are wrecking the economy, with scant regard for the misery of ruined businesses and the millions of jobs lost and impaired prospects.

– The Government is undertaking unprecedented and unproductive borrowing, which will prove a dead weight to the already damaged economy.

– Travel has been severely restricted by a range of clumsy measures, hampering personal freedom and enjoyment and demolishing even more of Britain’s business and industry.

All of life involves risk and no-one can live for ever. Why can’t this Government trust its citizens to get on with their lives and make informed decisions on what they do, what they wear, where they go and who they meet?

On The Brink of Oblivion

Boris, is that you?

Steve Rucastle is a Late Night Business Operator who says the debilitating restrictions that are ruining his business make him feel like he is on the brink of oblivion. He speaks for many, I’m sure.

As the hospitality sector is brought to its knees, the night time economy is thrown on the rocks and the events business is cast into oblivion, tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people, prepare to face an unknown future. For many it will bring poverty, destitution, ill-health, and hopelessness. For some it will be too much. It is no exaggeration to say that lives will be lost in the economic tsunami that is about to engulf us.

How exactly has it come to this?

When the Government closed us down and told us to flatten the curve, we obeyed.

When the Government put onerous restrictions on us reopening, we obeyed.

It supported us, the evidence warranted the action, the NHS had to be protected, we did not know enough about this wretched virus.

But now something else has happened. No endgame is communicated, what is the aim of the restrictions now thrust upon us? Support is being withdrawn. Restrictions continue to be put on our industry without any clear evidence to support why. The NHS has the extra capacity and the extra PPE that it did not have at the start of this crisis. We know lots more about the virus now. Every question that’s asked of our premier, when it comes to supporting those industries worst hit by his decisions to restrict or prohibit our businesses from operating, results in the same answer: “We’ll put our arms around these people.”

I do not want your arms around me. I want bloody answers. I want to operate my business without restriction, I want people to decide for themselves whether or not to visit my business or not, I want people to decide who they want to see and where they want to see them. I want people to sing, to dance, to hug loved ones, to get high, to be intimate with a stranger, to take risks, to enjoy life. No one can do any of this. By decree we have had our liberty and freedoms stripped away one nonsensical decision at a time. Life censored, risk forbidden, fun prohibited. Mere existence is all that remains. And all the while, it seems the vast majority of the public support the Government restrictions. No doubt fearful for their lives after being bludgeoned over the head for the past six months with daily death graphs, end of the world public health announcements and a poster, radio and TV campaign that would be more akin to a zombie apocalypse rather than a mild upper respiratory illness that barely affects most people who catch it.

If the masks work, lockdowns work, and curfews work, why the hell are we here? We are now undoubtedly trapped in this never-ending cycle of go out, stay in, eat out, go home, get back to normal, do not see your family, go back to work, work from home. What on earth are our leaders doing? What are they thinking? What is their strategy?

A vaccine may come, it may not. Either way though, this will not pan out like a Hollywood movie where a miracle vaccine fixes all our problems in a couple of weeks. This virus is with us for the long term and we need to learn to live with it. Not by adopting “the new normal”, which is a horrible expression. Nothing about what we are being expected to do is normal and it should never be sold as such.

People need to be aware of the risk that this virus poses to them personally, businesses need to be honest and factor in the level of risk they pose to people, in terms of possible infection (Outdoor Construction: Low/Nightclubs: High) and then everyone needs to get on with their lives. If I want to go to a nightclub with 1,000 people on a Saturday night, I would know the risk to myself and I also know that I probably shouldn’t visit my 75 year-old parents for a couple of weeks after. Although to be honest, they would probably care less about their risk than I do.

But we are not able to do any of this because the Government has decided it will tell us what level of risk we are all allowed to take. This leads me to the crux of the issue. How have we got here? The answer is simple. Boris Johnson.

Not only did I vote for Boris in the General Election. But as a former Conservative Party member, I elected him to the leadership of my former party. I would apologise, but at the time it felt the right thing to do. He was the right man for the job. Sadly, the man I elected is no longer present. He is gone. He has left the building. Replaced by an imposter.

But of course, that is not true. He is the same man. Boris Johnson, who is fast making Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars seem like a beacon of freedom and liberty, is no longer fit to run this country under the current circumstances. He is a man who had a close brush with death, thanks to this virus. Some would say that makes him the ideal man to lead us through it, but I must disagree. I believe that he has been so frightened, so utterly mortified that his own mortality was threatened by this virus, that he now feels a civic duty to stop anyone else experiencing that. A noble cause, but a misguided one. It is because of his very experience that he should not be leading the fight against COVID-19. His judgement is off, and every decision is taken on the basis that he worries everyone or indeed just anyone will have to endure what he did. He means well, I am sure he does, but he is just not the leader we need right now.

No, Dr Whitty. The NHS Is Not “Open For Business”

Dr Chris Whitty yesterday stated that hospitals are “open for business” and are ready to help people with all conditions, not just Covid. A reader begs to differ.

Last week I had a telephone consultation in a Hertfordshire surgery re the possible onset of Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). The doctor said yes that sounds like COPD, book an appointment for a spirometry test. This is an essential element in diagnosing COPD. As this incurable condition progressively worsens, more spirometry tests are conducted and changes in treatment are made. 

I booked the test and was called back 15 minutes later to be told that my appointment could not be kept because it was “not allowed”.

“Not allowed?” I asked. “What do you mean?”

“It’s not allowed.”

“I understand that,” I said. “Why not?”

Again the reply, “It’s not allowed”, and so it went on. Eventually in a temper I requested he ring back shortly when he had found out exactly why this essential test for COPD was “not allowed”. 15 minutes later he rang back. It’s not allowed, he told me, because the test involves exhaling with as much force as one can muster and therefore there is a Covid risk to the nurse.

If there is that much risk have the test outside! This test, I repeat, is essential for COPD diagnosis and treatment.

Absurd as this is, the doctor herself, by proposing that I have a spirometry test, is clearly unaware that currently in that practice at least they are not allowed.

New Poll Proves Polls Don’t Work

A new Ipsos MORI poll for the BBC appears to catch the Great British Public telling pollsters what they want to hear.

Overall, a large majority of Britons say they are very likely or certain that they will follow government guidelines and self-isolate should they test positive, come in close contact with someone who is positive, or arrive in Britain from a non-exempt country. 84% will do so if they themselves test positive for coronavirus while 77% will do the same should they come into close contact with someone who tests positive. A further 71% say they would quarantine if they returned from a country without a ‘travel corridor’.

Oh yes, 84%? So why did King’s College London find only 18% of those who developed symptoms followed the self-isolation rules, and that just 11% of contacts of those who tested positive did the same?

It makes you wonder whether all these polls that appear to show just how much public support there is for lockdown measures are really just measuring virtue-signalling.

Stop Press: A reader sheds some light on how the polls might turn out to be wrong.

I used to be a member of the YouGov Panel (the rather self-aggrandising name which YouGov awarded to questionnaire respondents at the time).

When YouGov used to ask me to participate in an online questionnaire, the content was never a simple “do you agree with ‘n’ Government policy?”, but instead it was a lengthy affair (often dozens of questions) which used to take up to 30 minutes to complete. This is why I stopped participating.

It occurred to me that such polling arrangements would only attract politically dedicated people (prepared to regularly fill out long questionnaires) and only people with sufficient spare time to do so.

What kind of person is this likely to be? I think we can all guess.

I would also suggest that this is why opinion polls got things so wrong about Brexit and Trump and why they are clearly making the same mistake regarding the upcoming presidential election.

Public Health Medics Prefer Risk “At a Distance”

An illuminating letter from a surgeon appeared in the Telegraph yesterday.

SIR – The vast majority of students who graduate from medical school pursue careers that use the tenets of clinical medicine. A correct diagnosis is typically dependent on a clinical examination using all of the doctor’s senses. In other words, clinical doctors are wholly immersed in a life of risk.

A tiny minority of medical graduates pursue a career in public-health medicine. That these scientists are intelligent is without doubt, but they inhabit a world of epidemiology and theoretical modelling, which keeps risk at a distance. No wonder, then, that when the Cabinet seeks their advice about minimising death, the message is to lock down and shield until the problem goes away.

As a general surgeon, I have not encountered a single Covid-positive patient for more than four months. In this same time, my clinical activity is running at 20% of what it normally would be and the expected numbers of referrals for patients with cancer has fallen dramatically. Yet I am now working in a region that has gone back into lockdown.

The Government is following the advice of a population of doctors who are risk-averse. It is possible to protect both the economy and the vulnerable, and to resume treating more lethal diseases. However, this requires the Government to seek and follow advice beyond the world of public-health medicine. It should listen to the Royal College of Surgeons and to oncologists.

David Scott-Coombes FRCS
Llysworney, Glamorgan

Round-Up

Theme Tunes Suggested by Readers

Two today: “It Started With A Kiss” by Hot Chocolate and “Hospital Blues” by Leo Henderson.

Love in the Time of Covid

We have created some Lockdown Sceptics Forums, including a dating forum called “Love in a Covid Climate” that has attracted a bit of attention. We have a team of moderators in place to remove spam and deal with the trolls, but sometimes it takes a little while so please bear with us. You have to register to use the Forums, but that should just be a one-time thing. Any problems, email the Lockdown Sceptics webmaster Ian Rons here.

Update: Some of you have asked how to link to particular stories on Lockdown Sceptics. The answer used to be to first click on “Latest News”, then click on the links that came up beside the headline of each story. But we’ve changed that so the link now comes up beside the headline whether you’ve clicked on “Latest News” or you’re just on the Lockdown Sceptics home page. Please do share the stories with your friends and on social media.

“Mask Exempt” Lanyards

We’ve created a one-stop shop down here for people who want to buy (or make) a “Mask Exempt” lanyard/card. You can print out and laminate a fairly standard one for free here and it has the advantage of not explicitly claiming you have a disability. But if you have no qualms about that (or you are disabled), you can buy a lanyard from Amazon saying you do have a disability/medical exemption here (takes a while to arrive). The Government has instructions on how to download an official “Mask Exempt” notice to put on your phone here. You can get a “Hidden Disability” tag from ebay here and an “exempt” card with lanyard for just £1.99 from Etsy here. And, finally, if you feel obliged to wear a mask but want to signal your disapproval of having to do so, you can get a “sexy world” mask with the Swedish flag on it here.

Don’t forget to sign the petition on the UK Government’s petitions website calling for an end to mandatory face nappies in shops here.

A reader has started a website that contains some useful guidance about how you can claim legal exemption.

And here’s a round-up of the scientific evidence on the effectiveness of mask (threadbare at best).

Stop Press: Lockdown Sceptics reader Russell Lewin (who blogs here) has come up with a way to stay sceptical for times when he might not feel brave enough to wear his exemption lanyard.

Samaritans

If you are struggling to cope, please call Samaritans for free on 116 123 (UK and ROI), email [email protected] or visit the Samaritans website to find details of your nearest branch. Samaritans is available round the clock, every single day of the year, providing a safe place for anyone struggling to cope, whoever they are, however they feel, whatever life has done to them.

Shameless Begging Bit

Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the past 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. Doing these daily updates is hard work (although we have help from lots of people, mainly in the form of readers sending us stories and links). If you feel like donating, please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links we should include in future updates, email us here.

And Finally…

Artist and Lockdown Sceptics reader Miriam Elia has a new satirical, Ladybird-style book coming out this month and has kindly allowed us to publish this preview, which shows just how brilliant her work is. Check out her website here, where you can also pre-order We Do Lockdown.

Comments

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2K Comments
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Janice21
Janice21
5 years ago

What are the rules for staying overnight in a hotel in Norethern Ireland? Its my sisters 40th this weekend and her, myself and my aunt have booked an overnight get away with 3 of us in one room. As we are from 3 households is this ‘allowed’? We will be meeting 2 others and hoped to have a meal out but if we are all from 5 households how can we get around this?

NickR
NickR
6 years ago

I know Khan is just itching to enter an arm wrestling contest with Boris & Nicola but the bloody rates keep going in the wrong direction, how can he claim to have defeated the virus if it won’t stay & fight.

4 London Boroughs.jpg
Lee23
Lee23
6 years ago
Reply to  NickR

Khan. Is a disgrace.

A. Contrarian
A. Contrarian
6 years ago

This student sounds like a bundle of fun…

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/am-i-the-only-student-following-the-covid-rules-

Regardless of my wish to follow the guidelines, if students continue to behave as though there is no virus, it is inevitable that our efforts will be in vain. In as rebellious an atmosphere as this, I have no doubt that coronavirus will likely become the new freshers’ flu, caught by each and every student in college. With studies showing that around eighty-per cent of cases in young people are asymptomatic, universities that have not already arranged routine testing of students will undoubtedly see infection rates spiral out of control.

Now I’m not boring, nor particularly sensible, and I miss student club nights just as much as the next person. But it seems reasonable to me that we should rein in our reckless behaviour now, in order to prevent a potentially disastrous second lockdown.

Janice21
Janice21
5 years ago
Reply to  A. Contrarian

Probably still has a plastic sheet on their mattress.

Tim Bidie
Tim Bidie
6 years ago

I’ve seen enough…

This is like having the country run by kaiser wilhelm II…….quite mad.

Given the lack of calibre of today’s politicians in this country, I no longer believe that they can be trusted with the system as it stands.

The solution has to be a federal system with, at the very least, a United Kingdom house elected by some form of proportional representation. First past the post is now, quite simply, too dangerous. These people are actual lunatics.

From what has happened over the last few months, it is clear that our current system of government, politicians, could all too easily stumble their way into dragging this country into another major global conflict.

The imbecilic incompetence on display has been breathtaking, hopelessly incredible.

Nothing less than major constitutional reform will do.

Richard Mountain
Richard Mountain
6 years ago

On the head shaking and tut tutting from the compliant muzzled ones. Surely our social responsibility to each other runs far deeper than spasmodic gesticulations to perceived authority for “not following the rules”. Our responsibility to each other requires us to oppose rules that are clearly the inversion of what they claim to be. Ie harmful and keeping nobody safe. Those who believe that their judgement of others for “selfishly putting others at harm” by “not following the rules” is a satisfactory response are in my view lazy minded who do not understand their own responsibility to others.

I’m currently reading Wilfully Ignorant by Pat Miller. An account of a US citizen living in Germany from 1933-1945. The parallels to people’s attitudes today (but sadly we are observing a global phenomena) are a true source of fear.

At least in the USSR the people knew they were being told lies.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Tom Blackburn

😷👏

Mark H
Mark H
6 years ago

So that’s the Trump got the virus. He’s now going in to quarantine almost a month before the election.

Tom Blackburn
Tom Blackburn
6 years ago

Daily Mail: RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: I have sympathy for Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8796081/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-sympathy-Jeremy-Corbyn.html

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Tom Blackburn

Diseased Scotch harridan tries to infect train load of passengers with deadly global Pandemic.

SNP MP M. Ferrer (?) caught travelling by train after being tested positive.

Welsh Nats next?

Tom Blackburn
Tom Blackburn
6 years ago

Trump and Melania test positive. This could be interesting if – as I suspect will happen – he comes out saying it was a piece of piss and the whole thing is a sham.

p02099003
p02099003
6 years ago
Reply to  Tom Blackburn

President Johnson had the flu in the 1968 pandemic, he met the Apollo 8 astronauts before their mission to the moon and infected one of them. That astronaut developed flu symptoms whilst travelling to the moon.

Sir Patrick Vaccine
Sir Patrick Vaccine
6 years ago

RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: In a free country dinner parties are for the many, not the few
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8796081/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-sympathy-Jeremy-Corbyn.html
dailymail debate/article-8796081/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-sympathy-Jeremy-Corbyn.html

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago

I found myself up ticking pro Jeremy comments for once.

My favourite
“Ms Abbot explained that the group of 8 was actually two separate groups of 5”.

Apologies to left wing viewers but I laughed at Steve Bells cartoon in the Guardian too.

Sir Patrick Vaccine
Sir Patrick Vaccine
6 years ago

From the Governments own website: “Number of deaths of people who had had a positive test result for COVID-19 and died within 28 days of the first positive test. The actual cause of death may not be COVID-19 in all cases.”

There is not second wave, just a huge amount tests with loads of false positives. These policies are destroying lives not saving them:

Travel agent breaks down as she reveals Covid crisis is killing company she’s run for 20 years – saying she’s made only £120 this month but still has to pay an employee £500 under ‘cr***y’ furlough scheme

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8788867/Inspired-Travel-owner-Kate-Harris-breaks-Covid-looks-set-close-business.html
dailymail /femail/article-8788867/Inspired-Travel-owner-Kate-Harris-breaks-Covid-looks-set-close-business.html

Cecil B
Cecil B
6 years ago

Delusion

We are all going to die from the plague

Reality

No second wave
No positive tests
No covid deaths

BobT
BobT
6 years ago

It has all become clearer now.

We have been challenging how our Government define what a Covid case is and how they count them so that we can show that cases, hospitalisations and death counts are all being exaggerated.

Turkey addressed this issue and decided that they would define a case as someone who was both symptomatic and had a positive PCR test using a reasonable threshold for infectiveness which is eminently reasonable and what we have been trying to achieve here.

Today, Turkey have been accused of undercounting cases and have been punished by the UK who have closed its travel corridor with them. The reason given? They were not following the WHO protocol (which as we all know overcounts the cases).
How did this suddenly come about? Was it a numty at a desk in PHE, or Whitehall? It certainly wasn’t our high IQ Health Minister so what changed? It must have been a note or nod from the WHO themselves to our Government which caused them to make the change but why would they do that?

Well, I have said this before, The head of the WHO was Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ethiopia at the time… Read more »

Cecil B
Cecil B
6 years ago
Reply to  BobT

China shouted ‘Boo’ and everyone dived behind the sofa

They ain’t coming out anytime soon

Steve-Devon
Steve-Devon
6 years ago
Reply to  BobT

Clearly information from China has to be treated with caution but Ihave picked up the idea that China is using variety of treatments against Covid 19. So whilst the weatern world ties itself up in knots over treatments and fails to find a vaccine, China is laughing all the way to the bank.
Years ago we overan China with Gunboats and troops, now they have turned the tables using a virus, politics and money, as they used to say, ‘darned cunning these Chinese!

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago
Reply to  BobT

‘Half the students at Imperial College are Chinese’
So a UK student has a reduced chance of getting a place there, despite being a citizen – that must surely be unfair..

Willow
Willow
6 years ago
Reply to  BobT

China itself does not comply with the WHO definition of “case” … WHO must know this but they haven’t bothered telling the rest of the world. I have been banging my head against a wall trying to get a journalist to pick up on this but they won’t.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fGTaVA32MSSLX5uqzbdcTg-mmDgKw2hGd3BUg6IDWfY

Eddie
Eddie
6 years ago

I was supposed to be beginning my first ever participation in a bowling league come Monday but the set of protocols I read today has me saying no thanks. Masks must be worn everywhere except while sitting and playing with your 4 member ‘pod’ (uuugh!!) and no celebratory touching during the game. No interaction with the opposing team whatsoever, who will play two lanes over to protect everyone. You know what, f*** it all – I refuse to participate in the new normal world and those businesses that lay all these ridiculous restrictions down.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Eddie

Make sure to let the management know why

Eddie
Eddie
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Sadly enough it matters not around here. Businesses are completely liability paranoid so they just can’t afford to sway in the wrong direction. Comply or die is what I’d imagine they’re thinking.
Oh well, I’ll just go to the gym on Monday night…until they close that down again 🙁

Cecil B
Cecil B
6 years ago
Reply to  Eddie

Comply and die anyway. ‘the choice was war or peace, some chose peace, they got war anyway’

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Eddie

I got evicted from a Toby Carvery yesterday for failing to comply with QR protocol despite offering my old phones number which Government advice clearly says is acceptable.

Never mind, I went elsewhere and had a nicer breakfast in a more pleasant environment.
The main lunchtime demographic for that restaurant is the genteel retired👴👵, people least likely to have an up to date smart phone.

Cecil B
Cecil B
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Smacks of hypocrisy. Why run a website like this and then turn people away cos they don’t have a phone

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

I do have a smartphone, using it now, but I imagine that many Mr & Mrs Nicepeople will not.

Ann
Ann
6 years ago
Reply to  Eddie

Tell them that.

Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
6 years ago
Reply to  Ann

I agree with Ann. We need to show people that there is resistance, that not everyone thinks this situation is a sacrifice worth making.

I wonder if the sad, lonely, dead eyes of the muzzled do not indicate despair so much as they identify people who are waiting for some sign that things are changing, that others do not agree and do not consent, to be shown an example that they can follow, social proof that what is happening is wrong and should be changed.

Ann
Ann
6 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

I think you’re probably right. But it’s virtually impossible to tell which nappies conceal a would-be rebel, and which a zombie.
And that, of course, is the reason for nappies, and for the persecution of those who don’t wear them.

chaos
chaos
6 years ago

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12346214/
Tetanus vaccine may be laced with anti-fertility drug. International / developing countries

Victoria
Victoria
6 years ago
Reply to  chaos

It happened in Africa where it was laced with HCG

wendyk
wendyk
6 years ago

https://docs4opendebate.be/en/

petition on this site

anyone can sign, even though set up in Belgium

chaos
chaos
6 years ago
Bob Webb
Bob Webb
6 years ago

The “government” is long on ambition, avarice and greed, short on common sense and lacking in compassion, empathy and leadership. It is far more concerned with its “perceived” performance than in actually doing the job. In short, this “government” is a bunch of obnoxious rat bags the like of which I have not seen since primary school. The very concept of government seems to be beyond them. I held out some hope that the1922 comittee might make the “government” see some sense, but alas, even these “statesmen” failed to exhibit a backbone and consigned us all to a further 6 months of “government” by decree. The Weimar Republic suffered a similar fate in 1933.

I predict next year’s hot fashion item will be brown shirts

Richard O
Richard O
6 years ago
Reply to  Bob Webb

Yes. Any government under the non-existent leadership of a self-obsessed, shallow nobody like Johnson was always going to be very bad. My expectations have been exceeded. This regime – for that is what they now are – are overseeing the complete annihilation of our civilisation.

Ovis
Ovis
6 years ago
Reply to  Bob Webb

At least the Hitler Gruss required only a momentary extension of the arm. The Johnson salute requires the covering of one’s airways with a dehumanising rag for long periods of time.

My ‘face covering’ is made from a very fine thread, which can be seen only by those who truly believe in the ultimate victory over Covid.

Hail Johnson (and his whiny gimp Starmer)!

Richard O
Richard O
6 years ago
Reply to  Ovis

Fuck the lot of them, and their media whores. The solution to this begins and ends with us.

Ann
Ann
6 years ago
Reply to  Ovis

Starmtrooper.

Draper233
Draper233
6 years ago

Interestingly the Guardian is leading with:

“Covid cases doubled under most local lockdowns in England”
“In 11 out of 16 English cities and towns where restrictions were imposed nine weeks ago, the infection rate has at least doubled, with cases in five areas of Greater Manchester rising faster than the England average in that time.”

Now you’d think at this point the conclusion might be that this is because lockdown measures are ineffective? But no, apparently it’s because:

“restrictions are confusing and done “on the cheap””

Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
6 years ago
Reply to  Draper233

It’s all about confirmation bias these days.

When you start with the assumption that lockdown works, it really doesn’t matter what happens.

  • If the number of positive tests goes down: lockdown works.
  • If the number of positive tests goes up: we haven’t done enough lockdown.

This is why none of the facts matter. The false positive rate, the difference between the presence of SARS-CoV-2 and an actual clinical presentation of COVID-19, the effectiveness (or otherwise) of masks, the age and ill-health stratification of deaths, and so on.

Facts don’t matter when you’ve already chosen your position because you can just ignore anything that doesn’t accord with your beliefs.

Ann
Ann
6 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

It’s exactly like medieval medicine. Only one treatment: bleeding and purging. If that doesn’t work, bleed and purge some more, until the patient dies. It never occurs to the doctor that the patient died of the treatment, because the doctor knows fuck all about the human body and any attempt to learn would be blasphemy.

Lee23
Lee23
6 years ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54371559

I’ve avoid BBC all week and because I have just complained about Question Time I got sucked in again to read their nonsense. Another “mandatory” vaccination tosser.

Richard O
Richard O
6 years ago
Reply to  Lee23

Herein lies the essence of the battle we face. It is our responsibility to demonstrate to anyone who has been poisoned by such toxic, anti-human filth that there is another, much better way to live.

The BBC must be not only defunded, but disbanded. It is a metastasising tumour that is blighting and endangering all our lives. All those who serve it must be held to account, with lengthy custodial sentences if necessary.

chaos
chaos
6 years ago
Reply to  Lee23

Which African state got a Gates vaccine that somehow had HCG in it? It sterilised those who were given it. What a terrible ‘mistake’!

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago
Reply to  chaos

Gates has form when it comes to dodgy vaccines – and he is advising the UK government (possibly more than just ‘advising’) – madness..

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago

Some shocking figures in this video about HMG’s contract spending:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1852487754888995

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago

Nice story from Save Our Rights UK:

I was shopping in Waitrose, Cobham this afternoon with my friend Becky, who is visiting from Houston. We were perusing the selection of cheeses in the dairy aisle when a gentleman asked if he could squeeze in to get a pack of cheddar. I said ‘no need to squeeze, we’ll make plenty of room for you, unless of course you prefer we don’t. In fact you can have a hug if you like but only if you take off your mask’. So he did! He gave us both a hug and as I hugged him back I said ‘ditch the mask, it’s being used to control people’. He said ‘I know’ and ripped it off.
I saw him a bit later at the checkout (still sans mask comment image )

matt
matt
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Cheezilla wins the internet.

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

How dairy (dare he)

I’ll get my coat…

Richard O
Richard O
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Wonderful work by this individual. It begs the question: why are so many still complying when a simple, gracious, human request like this is all it takes to drop the veil completely?

A chink of light is enough to completely dispel all the darkness I have immersed myself in today. Rinse and repeat tomorrow.

Ovis
Ovis
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Cheezilla, I have written before on these boards that we would be in a much better position now if we had all just licked each other in February. Sadly, that opportunity was missed. But there are some people who post here whom I would happily lick, without any hope that it could forestall worse lockdown restrictions, but only as a mark of genuine affection. Cheezilla, here is a virtual lick.

Ann
Ann
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Hallelujah!

Lili
Lili
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

That is wonderful. This is how we will win, with kindness and humanity AND HUGS!

PoshPanic
PoshPanic
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Great story to start the day, thanks!

Lee23
Lee23
6 years ago

Question Time. CEO of Ocado asked how many people have directly died of Covid as opposed to with.

Not sure who the women is who gave the reply, but she said 43,000 have died of Covid.

That is not true, or have I missed something ????

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago
Reply to  Lee23

I think it’s the “official” figure.
And I’m pretty sure it’s within 28 days of having a positive test.

Lee23
Lee23
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

But the question was “of Covid” rather than “with” and she was straight away. 43,000. Her name is Helen Stokes-Lampard. Seems to be a GP.

Alison McGovern, Labour seems very keen on health matters being the basis of decision making without understanding that without an economy there will be no health system. Also, while it might read unkind she is clearly not in control of her own health.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago
Reply to  Lee23

GP but barely literate?

James Leary #KBF
James Leary #KBF
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

These days GPSs diagnose people with flow-charts and guesswork. Mainly guesswork. They call it ‘the empirical method’. That’s why they need Marxists in the BMA & GMC to protect them.

p02099003
p02099003
6 years ago

Physicians have always done this. When I was in my first nursing job I went on rounds with the consultant on a neurology ward. I saw him with one patient and my immediate thought was you don’t know what is wrong with this person.
Having moved on to being in a position of diagnosing illness I am doing the same. It’s a matter of elimination using symptoms, signs and examination to come to a differential diagnosis. Then it is down to probabilities of which is most likely. If that isn’t possible then further tests are needed.
You develop a hypothesis of what could be wrong with the patient, and then follow the scientific method.

Draper233
Draper233
6 years ago
Reply to  Lee23

Please watch this from Ireland a few days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZolPvWW8oo&feature=youtu.be

Health officials admit that they adhere to WHO guidelines to record hospitalisations and deaths, which in reality means somebody who is admitted to hospital with, say, a broken leg or heart attack and subsequently tests positive for Covid, will be recorded in the stats.

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago
Reply to  Lee23

Who was on the panel? I’d have hoped someone would have quoted the correct figure.. which is about 1400, I believe.

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
6 years ago
Reply to  Lee23

No, you have not missed anything. She is the chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners, Helen Stokes-Lampard:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Stokes-Lampard

She did not answer the question from Stuart Rose, and it wasn’t because she mis-heard.

Lee23
Lee23
6 years ago

What an utter scum bag that woman is then.

And now a “public information film” by HMG. Ridiculous.

RickH
RickH
6 years ago
Reply to  Lee23

Pure fiction

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

I’ve had ME since the mid-80s!

JHuntz
JHuntz
6 years ago

I see that an SNP MP flouted the self isolation rules and took a round trip to and from Westminster. I am actually impressed one of that lot turned up to debate.

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago
Reply to  JHuntz

Somebody posted this on Twitter. It’s so Blackford I couldn’t tell if he actually said it:

Ian Blackford: “A Scottish MP travelling all the way to Westminster with Covid19, and then all the way back again, shows once and for all, that it is time for another referendum”

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago

This is a good take from the recent round table that Florida Governer Ron De Santis had with some experts:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1311690290172960769.html
Jennifer Cabrera

Dr. J. Bhattacharya: “Dr. Fauci’s been involved in infectious disease control for a very long time. He is a preeminent scientist for a good reason; he is an expert. But in early February, March, we sort of put him on a pedestal…

“If you get zero COVID—I don’t know if it’s even technically feasible—we know that we’re going to have to destroy our society in order to get it. We’ll have to get rid of all of our freedoms; we’ll have to make sure that very few people interact with each other; …

“essentially, it’s so high a cost that it’s not worth it. Science can tell us, here’s how you can maximize the probability of getting zero COVID, but it’s up to non-scientists to decide whether it’s worth it…

“You can’t put one person on a pedestal and ask them to make that decision for society. I love that I live in a democratic society where those kinds of decisions aren’t up to experts; it’s up to people deciding together through electoral processes what we value…

Jakehadlee
Jakehadlee
6 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

A perfect explanation of the situation

RyanM
RyanM
6 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

Jay lives in California. So, he only sort of lives in that type of society. But he’s right

Lee23
Lee23
6 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

And Boris’ policy is now zero Covid. Idiot

Ceriain
Ceriain
6 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

Thanks for posting this, N; you led me to this: https://rationalground.com/governor-desantis-roundtable-experts-advocate-for-normal-life-for-young-people/

It’s a terrific, eye-opening read. Love this from Michael Levitt:

I was surprised by the predictions made by the Imperial College group.
Early on, it said that the case fatality ratio, the number of deaths per
case, were 14%, whereas I never encountered any number like that in the
data. And then, when I saw their models, I was just surprised at how
large they were. I was also surprised by the fact that I did actually
try quite hard to engage with them. I came to the conclusion that
British scientists have their email permanently on vacation mode… but
this communication didn’t seem to work. I eventually got through, and it
wasn’t very satisfying. I basically said their numbers were a factor of
10 too high, and they said they were not, and I just gave up because,
you know, they were the experts. But I still believed what I said.

Wow!

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago

I’d written a comment about the yougov polls being rigged.
Here’s an interesting response. I realise it matches my experience too – and I dropped out very quickly!

I am pretty sure the YouGov polls are rigged. I kept getting surveys every week including questions on the end on attitudes to Covid. Once my fear factor dropped from 2 out of 5 to 1 out of 5, I have only received one other survey from YouGov in the past 2 months, and that was on some consumer stuff. They are rigging the sample.

HelzBelz
HelzBelz
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

OMG same here!!

Lee23
Lee23
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Every poll is rigged. Perfect summary of polling can be found in Yes Minister.

Jonathan Palmer
Jonathan Palmer
6 years ago
Reply to  Lee23

The great Sir Humphrey Appleby demonstrated how it’s done

Ann
Ann
6 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

What a surprise.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago

No words for this. School procedures for imprisoning children. Horrific.

https://youtu.be/3E_ogRe-Vco

The psychological damage that must be doing doesn’t bear thinking about.

Draper233
Draper233
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I couldn’t even reach the end of the video it was so nauseating.

Effective psychology though, teaching them that only full conformity to the state can keep them safe.

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

That is sick. Note there was zero interaction between students – not even in the ‘mask breaks’.. Didn’t see anyone smiling (not that you could see many mouths…)

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

This will minimise the amount of interpersonal contact ….

That’s one deeply disturbing video!

leggy
leggy
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I really wish I hadn’t watched that. On the other hand, it’s a good one to send to any zealots.

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago
Reply to  leggy

It would be interesting to show it to a UK child who is currently in a school where masks are required, and ask how many of the same rules apply. It might be enlightening.. we may find more is going on in the UK than children are mentioning.

Nsklent
Nsklent
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Is that for real!

john
john
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

my heart sank. That is child abuse, and those responsible seem proud about it…what a shameful world we live in….

DomW
DomW
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Video downvote from me!

ColoradoGirl
ColoradoGirl
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I teach middle school in the States and this video is not at all an exaggeration. The systems are slightly different in our school. There’s a pass system, no one stationed at the door of the bathroom. But the lines, the walking on the right and the learning cohorts are all being implemented. Teachers are incredibly depressed. We were told early in the year that we were not permitted to take any videos or pictures of any classes. Parents would be appalled if they saw it, but they are not allowed inside.

JHuntz
JHuntz
6 years ago

The combination of track and trace and the mask wardens is the final nail in the coffin between me spending anything in the economy other than absolute essentials.

Ann
Ann
6 years ago
Reply to  JHuntz

That’s the cSe with all of us here, I suspect.

String
String
6 years ago

Story from a few months ago references a UEA study, and a quote from Dr Brainard, indicates mask use may increase cases, deaths, generally not recommended in widespread use:
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-new-study-reveals-which-lockdown-measures-could-be-safely-lifted-first-11984780

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