Latest News

17 min read

Three Quarters of a Million Jobs Lost During Lockdown

According to the Office for National Statistics, UK payrolls fell 2.5% from March to July of this year, amounting to the loss of 730,000 jobs. The Telegraph has more.

Meanwhile, the number of people claiming benefits climbed to 2.7m in July, up 116.8% since March.

The ONS also found that nominal pay growth – unadjusted for inflation – from April to June was negative for the first time since records began in 2001, weighed down by lower bonuses and furloughed workers on reduced earnings.

However, the official unemployment rate is not rising because to be counted among the unemployed, workers need to be actively looking for a new job, which many have decided not to do yet, the ONS said.

Jonathan Athow of the ONS said there was also a large number of people who said they were working no hours and getting no pay.

“The falls in employment are greatest among the youngest and oldest workers, along with those in lower-skilled jobs,” he added. “Vacancies numbers began to recover in July, especially in small businesses and sectors such as hospitality, but demand for workers remains depressed.”

What Accounts for the UK’s Unusually High Death Toll?

There’s an interesting blog post by Jason Oke and Carl Heneghan on the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine website, speculating as to what could account for the UK’s high Covid death toll over the past three weeks. They note that the UK is an outlier when compared to every other European country.

Analysing deaths since mid-July the UK is a clear outlier with a Case Fatality Rate (CFR) of 6.57. Every other European country has a CFR for this period less than three, and Spain is as low as 0.15.

Spain has reported over 60,000 cases, but only 94 deaths; Germany has 21,000 cases compared to the UK’s 26,500 cases but reports 93% fewer deaths (129 versus 1,744), and Russia has nearly ten times as many cases as the UK but only twice the deaths.

The difference in the UK is so stark that the primary explanation has to be in the current recording and reporting of deaths. We are expecting the UK numbers to be revised this week to bring them, somewhat, in line with the rest of Europe.

Meanwhile, the Telegraph is reporting that the official daily death toll could be scrapped, following an investigation into the reporting anomalies flagged up by Yoon Loke and Carl Heneghan in a CBEM blog post three weeks ago.

Stop Press: Matt Hancock’s crack army of contract tracers are sitting on their hands doing nothing, according to report done by Independent SAGE. The group said the army of up to 25,000 staff had reached 51,524 close contacts of people who’ve tested positive for coronavirus between the end of May and the end of July. That amounts, on average, to two successful contacts per employee across the period. The Telegraph has more:

The criticism chimes with comments from staff employed by NHS Test and Trace which have emerged since its launch at the end of May.

One, a trained clinician, said the job was akin to being “paid to watch Netflix”. Others spoke of being members of a WhatsApp group called the Mouse Movers Club, which they use to remind each other to move their computer mouse every 15 minutes to avoid being locked out of the system.

The latest “fix” of this fiasco is to turn over responsibility for contact tracing to local authorities. What could possibly go wrong?

Does PHE’s New Study Show Schools Are Safe to Re-Open or Not?

The Sunday Times published a leaked report by Public Health England (PHE) two days ago that purportedly shows there is little or no evidence that the virus is transmitted in schools. About 20,000 pupils and teachers in 100 schools across England were tested as part of the study to monitor the spread of the disease up to the end of the summer term.

According to a Professor Russell Viner, president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health and a member of SAGE: “A new study that has been done in UK schools confirms there is very little evidence that the virus is transmitted in schools. This is some of the largest data you will find on schools anywhere. Britain has done very well in terms of thinking of collecting data in schools.”

However, the Times has run a story on its front page today saying its sister paper’s summary of the forthcoming report is inaccurate. According to the Times, PHE has studied those aged 10 and under and those over 10 and while there’s little evidence that the first group spreads the virus, the second group doesn’t fare so well.

Secondary school pupils are likely to transmit coronavirus as easily as adults, according to official research used by ministers to argue that it is safe for all children to return to class next month.

Scientists at Public Health England (PHE) believe that tougher rules are likely to be needed for older children, despite finding that primary pupils do not seem to pass the virus to each other.

Gavin Williamson, the education secretary, said yesterday that a study being conducted by PHE of thousands of pupils who returned to schools in June showed that there was little risk in government plans for all children to be back in the classroom for the new academic year next month.

However, the Times understands that researchers working on the study are unhappy with the way ministers have used the findings, which have not been fully analysed. The preliminary results do suggest that primary schools pose little danger, with only six positive tests out of 9,000 tested so far. These cases were not linked to each other and contact tracing suggested that the children had caught the virus from their parents or other carers outside school.

It’s impossible to assess this data without seeing it, but the evidence from European countries that have re-opened schools – including secondary schools – is that doing so has had no discernible impact on the spread of the virus (see graphic above).

Is Boris worried that the PHE data will be used by the teaching unions to justify continuing to obstruct the Government’s attempts to re-open schools next month? Apparently so, because according to the Telegraph he has asked Chris Whitty to carry out a review of the evidence on the transmission of coronavirus in educational settings in an attempt to show schools are safe to re-open.

Professor Chris Whitty is being asked to carry out a rapid evaluation of the research on schools in order to provide parents with more reassurance before the new term starts next month.

One study, to be published later this week, will show that, despite 60 clusters and outbreaks in schools and nurseries during June and July, not a single child has been hospitalised.

Preliminary results from a larger study by Public Health England (PHE) next week are expected to confirm that there is little evidence that the virus is transmitted in schools.

Vicstapo Officer Chokes Woman For Not Wearing Mask

There have been a number of horrific videos in the past 24 hours of police in Melbourne brutally assaulting young women for not wearing masks. Some people naively clung to the hope that the police in Victoria wouldn’t enforce the illiberal policies of state premier Daniel Andrews, known locally as Kim-Jong Dan. But history suggests that if authoritarian, power-crazed leaders ask the police to force people to comply with their loony, draconian diktats they are more than happy to do so. Awful. (If you have the stomach for it, there’s another video here.)

Postcard From Stockholm

Anders Tegnell, the architect of Sweden’s coronavirus strategy, is a local hero. One bakery has even named a cake after him

A reader has emailed to let me know about his experience holidaying in Sweden.

I wanted to get in touch with you to tell you about my recent short break to Stockholm, it made a wonderful change from old Blighty.

Stockholm was a marvel to behold – upon arriving we instantly felt transported into another world. It all felt very normal with life carrying on as I remember it. There are some modest precautions in place with sanitiser available (but never forced) and some extent of social distancing. There isn’t a hint of the infantilism we see at home – no markings on the floor, no barked announcements, no yellow and black hazard tape marking social distancing and no marshals outside shops. The population are treated as adults and trusted to behave accordingly. There were plenty of people out and about with many office workers out buying lunch, friends meeting up, business meetings taking place in cafes and restaurants and lots of Swedes on staycations.

One thing I was highly skeptical about has been our media coverage of Anders Tegnell. According to our media, the Swedes all think he’s a raving lunatic. I spoke to about 30 Swedes at our hotel who all agreed with his strategy and felt that he’d made the right choices for Sweden. They were all happy with his leadership and felt he was the right man for the job. This “anger” as I believe the BBC described the feeling towards Tegnell in Sweden is simply non-existent, indeed, we walked past a bakery in Gamla Stan which had named a cake after him!

All in all, it was a lovely break in a beautiful city with wonderful food, hospitable people and endless things to do. I’d highly recommend a holiday in Stockholm to anyone who wants a break from this tyrannical pantomime our country has become. If anyone needs additional persuasion – buffet breakfasts are still very much the order of the day in Sweden!

Postcards From Around England

Tynemouth in Tyne and Wear

Several readers have been in touch to tell me about their staycation experiences. Nearly all were positive.

First, a postcard from the North East.

I’ve just returned home from a few days in the North East, exploring the coastline north between Tynemouth and Bamburgh.

Local families and holidaymakers were enjoying the good weather and the beaches, which were not crowded.

In the streets people were easily able to keep a sensible distance without obsessive two metre paranoia. Dinner in two restaurants was relaxed and pretty normal. Tables were well spaced and sanitiser available. Staff wore no face coverings and there was no pressure on customers to provide contact details.

It was uplifting to see groups of teenagers enjoying swimming, diving, and paddle boarding and two Geordie lasses sitting on a rock with their feet in a rock pool singing their hearts out.

And here’s another happy camper just back from Wales.

We’ve just been to Pembrokeshire for a short family break and the absence of masks and people crab-stepping around one another was a wonderful relief, the most ’normal’ we’ve felt for months.

Roads, beaches, shops and restaurants were busy and the atmosphere generally very relaxed. Indeed, we only had one restaurant stipulate that masks were to be worn on entering the building, which could then be removed at the table. Needless to say, we ate elsewhere.

Has Northern Ireland Created a New Criminal Offence by Accident?

“This is the Northern Irish Department of Health. Can I help you?”

An eagle-eyed reader has spotted that the Northern Ireland Executive may have created a new, wide-ranging criminal offence by accident in its rush to push through new regulations making the wearing of face coverings in shops compulsory.

I believe that the Northern Irish Department of Health has accidentally created a criminal offence, using essentially the same regulation-making power which has been used in England to enforce the shutdown and wearing of face coverings.

Yesterday, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020 (SR 2020 No. 164) came into effect. They amend the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020 (SR 2020 No. 151).

The intended purpose of the Regulations is to make it an offence to fail without reasonable excuse to wear a face covering in a relevant place (i.e. shops, etc.)

They do this by providing, in regulation 4A(1), “A person shall not, without reasonable excuse, enter or remain within a relevant place without wearing a face covering.”

Regulation 7(1) then provides, “A person who, without reasonable excuse, contravenes a requirement in regulation 4 or 4A commits an offence.”

However, paragraph (3) of regulation 4A states: “A person shall temporarily remove a face covering when requested to do so for identification purposes by a relevant person, a person responsible for a relevant place or an employee of that person acting in the course of their employment.”

This is a requirement – the use of the word “shall” is unequivocal and identical to the use of the word in paragraph (1). Therefore, in my view, regulation 7(1) makes it an offence to fail to comply with it.

In other words, the Regulations (apparently accidentally) mean that, if a person tries to buy a 6 pack of beer and is asked to remove his face covering so that the shop assistant can check his ID, he commits a criminal offence if he refuses to do so. There is not even a “reasonable excuse” exception, as there is with regulation 4A(1).

Further evidence is that regulation 5, which gives some examples of reasonable excuses not to wear a face covering, gives the following as such an example: “where a person responsible for a relevant place or an employee of that person acting in the course of their employment, has asked that the face covering be removed for identification purposes.”

It appears that this is a mistake, but it appears nonetheless that sloppy drafting has meant that a new, wide-ranging criminal offence has been created by accident and is currently in force in Northern Ireland.

I have brought this to the attention of Francis Hoar, who is involved with Simon Dolan’s judicial review of some of the UK Government’s “health protection” regulations, and he agrees with me about my interpretation of the apparent effect of the Regulations.

Sounds like my correspondent should bring a Judicial Review. If he decides to do that, I’ll link to the crowdfunder here.

New Zealand Prime Minister Orders Second Lockdown

Jacinda Ardern has ordered a second lockdown in New Zealand after… four new cases in 102 days

A reader in New Zealand has been in touch to let me know that Jacinda Arden has decided to impose a second lockdown.

It pains me to write this, but Queen Covid – she of the illustrious teeth, who shall be revered across the world as an example of leadership – has just announced Auckland will be going back into Level 3 restrictions tomorrow (schools closed, etc.), and the rest of NZ into Level 2.

Yep, we have cases! All four of them. Who’d have predicted that maintaining pristine isolation of NZ from the rest of the world couldn’t be maintained forever? Announced at 9pm tonight and enacted by midday tomorrow. Precisely and exactly as bizarre and arbitrary as the recent flip-flops in UK policy.

My correspondent isn’t exaggerating when he says this has been prompted by four new cases. Not deaths, cases, the country’s first in 102 days. And remember Jacinda Arden is held up by woke nincompoops as an example of how female leaders have managed the coronavirus crisis more effectively than male leaders! FOUR NEW CASES!

The second lockdown should give added urgency to the one-day conference organised by Plan B, a group of lockdown sceptics in New Zealand. It has lined up a stellar array of speakers, including Oxford’s Professor Sunetra Gupta and Standford’s Professor Jay Battacharya. It’s scheduled to be broadcast live from the NZ Parliament on August 17th. If you’d like a free ticket, you can RSVP here, although they may all be gone by now.

Round-Up

Small Businesses That Have Re-Opened

A couple of months ago, Lockdown Sceptics launched a searchable directory of open businesses across the UK. The idea is to celebrate those retail and hospitality businesses that have re-opened, as well as help people find out what has opened in their area. But we need your help to build it, so we’ve created a form you can fill out to tell us about those businesses that have opened near you.

Now that non-essential shops have re-opened – or most of them, anyway – we’re now focusing on pubs, bars, clubs and restaurants, as well as other social venues. As of July 4th, many of them have re-opened too, but not all (and some of them are at risk of having to close again). Please visit the page and let us know about those brave folk who are doing their bit to get our country back on its feet – particularly if they’re not insisting on face masks! Don’t worry if your entries don’t show up immediately – we need to approve them once you’ve entered the data.

Love in the Time of Covid

Julia Stephenson, a Brexiteer and lockdown sceptic, says she’s “thrilled” we’ve started a new dating forum

We have created some Lockdown Sceptics Forums that are now open, including a dating forum called “Love in a Covid Climate” that has attracted a bit of publicity. We have a team of moderators in place to remove spam and deal with the trolls, but sometimes it takes a little while so please bear with us. You have to register to use the Forums, but that should just be a one-time thing. Any problems, email the Lockdown Sceptics webmaster Ian Rons here.

Julia Stephenson, a Brexiteer and lockdown Sceptic, has written a piece in the Telegraph today saying she’s “thrilled” we’ve started a new dating forum.

I’m thrilled to hear that Toby Young has added a new dating thread to the forum on his ‘Lockdown Sceptics’ website. I have long thought a Brexit dating bureau was long overdue. If you are a Brexiteer you are often on the same page regarding many other issues, including lockdown, so it is a shortcut to finding someone with whom you’re compatible.

Brexiteers make up the majority of this country (51.89 per cent, to be precise) but you’d never know this to look at most dating sites which are rampant with virtue-signalling latte drinkers. It’s as if only left-wingers deserve to find love.

Welcome to the forum, Julia. Worth reading in full.

“Mask Exempt” Lanyards

I’ve created a permanent slot down here for people who want to buy (or make) a “Mask Exempt” lanyard/card. You can print out and laminate a fairly standard one for free here and it has the advantage of not explicitly claiming you have a disability. But if you have no qualms about that (or you are disabled), you can buy a lanyard from Amazon saying you do have a disability/medical exemption here (now showing it will arrive between Sept 25th to Oct 5th). The Government has instructions on how to download an official “Mask Exempt” notice to put on your phone here. You can get a “Hidden Disability” tag from eBay here and an “exempt” card that looks like as if it’s been issued by the NHS for just £2.79 from Etsy here.

Don’t forget to sign the petition on the UK Government’s petitions website calling for an end to mandatory face nappies in shops here (now almost 28,000). If you need an additional incentive to sign, check out this study from Duke University which shows that some masks increase the risk of transmission.

A reader has started a website that contains some useful guidance about how you can claim legal exemption.

And if you want a laugh, take a look at this skit from a satirical Indian TV show showing self-appointed mask-enforcers becoming a little too enthusiastic.

Shameless Begging Bit

Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the past 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. If you feel like donating, however small the sum, please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links I should include in future updates, email me here.

And Finally…

You can listen to the latest episode of London Calling, my weekly podcast with James Delingpole, here. This week we discuss the need to re-open schools and whether Boris can “do a Ronald Reagan” and fire teachers who don’t show up for work (he can’t), as well as the new Lockdown Sceptics dating site and Dawn Butler’s unconvincing attempt to cast herself as the victim of racial profiling. If you enjoy our weekly whinges, don’t forget to subscribe to London Calling on Apple Podcasts.

Comments

This week across the site:

Email me alerts for this discussion
Notify of

To join in with the discussion please make a donation to the Daily Sceptic.

Profanity and abuse will be removed and may lead to a permanent ban.

1.3K Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
mjr
mjr
6 years ago

WEDNESDAY’S page has now arrived
https://dailysceptic.org/2020/08/12/latest-news-101/#comments

The UK economy and this page are now closed . Please pick up your P45 as you leave the building

Little Red Hen
Little Red Hen
6 years ago
Reply to  mjr

That’s very goood…. 😁

WhyNow
WhyNow
6 years ago

This lockdown is a system failure across the world. The ingredients are:

  • natural human fear of disease
  • a very large industry of health professionals, across the world, who see their role as guardians of public health, not administering to individual need – e.g. clean water, vaccination programmes, contraceptives, HIV programmes
  • a malevolent manipulative media
  • magic money.

We have always accepted a world where elderly people get infections and they die. Now, suddenly, we are supposed to stop our normal activity so that no-one dies.

It is as clear as daylight that the vast majority of cases were likely to happen from one form of infection or another. That’s what elderly people die of: sepsis, bacterial infections, pneumonia, flu.

Even with the rare cases of children and younger adults, it is not at all clear that this is more than the usual random noise in any sample.

If we don’t turn this around, it won’t stop at Covid. After this, the public guardians will be on to the next “emergency”.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

For some reason you forgot “cowardly, incompetent, cynical politicians prepared to lie to and manipulate their nation’s population”.

Is there a reason you seem here to systematically try to protect the leaders from responsibility for their decisions?

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
6 years ago

Looks like another one joining Yorkshire Tea in committing corporate suicide by going woke:

https://twitter.com/DouglasKMurray/status/1293478921674072066

BTW, Yorkshire Tea in Morrisons with 50% extra in large pack going for around a fiver.

anon
anon
6 years ago
Reply to  Bart Simpson

what did Yorkshire tea do?

(guessing this is where, ‘get woke go broke’ comes from? hadn’t figured out what that meant so far..)

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
6 years ago
Reply to  anon

They said on their Twitter account that those who don’t support BLM shouldn’t be drinking their tea.

DavidC
DavidC
6 years ago
Reply to  Bart Simpson

Oh dear. Have they seen the film of George Floyd’s arrest?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPSwqp5fdIw

DavidC

flyingjohn
flyingjohn
6 years ago

I believe there is a globalist agenda led by the WEF (aka Davos) which includes, of course, Big Pharma. They stand to make millions, perhaps trillions of dollars from a global vaccine programme. But the virus is dying too soon, so they have to keep up the fear and keep us subdued and compliant, hence the mask edicts (mind control). The masks, like the scaremongering, social distancing and clapping is a sophisticated system of mind control. We are being conditioned to accept more and more authority and less and less civil liberties. It may have started as a virus and public health thing, but it’s no longer about that. It’s about central government control.

I think Johnson is being manipulated. He and his Ministers are too naive and stupid to come up with a plot like this. I hear people say that they are disappointed in BoJo and expected him to have a pair of balls. He never, ever did. He’s an empty vessel, a very good example of politicians controlled by the State, Civil Service etc. May, Cameron and Major are other good examples of puppets, but Boris is in a class of his own.

God help us.

Victoria
Victoria
6 years ago
Reply to  flyingjohn

Not manipulated, but paid off

anon
anon
6 years ago
Reply to  Victoria

or blackmailed if need be

especially when they go too far

even for the corrupt scoundrels in charge

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago
Reply to  flyingjohn

Just remember “The May Bot”‘. Look how she was totally neutered, powerless, absolutely useless as a PM. Doing what she was told, saying what she was told to say, every day for years.

Rick H
Rick H
6 years ago
Reply to  flyingjohn

I think that’s a fair summary – although there are overlapping areas and levels in any explanation.

I have always been suspicious of simplistic ‘conspiracy’ – type explanations for social/political phenomenon. But, as I say to those who are equally suspicious of conspiracists, reduce the explanation to :

  • “Cui bono?” and ‘Follow the money.”

… and you have a much less weird category of explanation.

The Sherlock Holmes saw :”When you have eliminated the impossible, what is left, no matter how improbable, is the solution” is always a good guide, too.

… and the interest and influence of big global money – Pharma, Technology and Data, Finance – certainly provides a part of any explanation – especially when you check out networks and histories.

Then you have the lower level stuff – compliance, self-importance, social status, power – and sheer stupidity – operating in various spheres.

Then , of course – sheer group think amongst pretty mediocre political brains, jerked around like puppets, that have never seen any wider context or vision.

The phrase ‘the banality of evil’ seems entirely appropriate

zacaway
zacaway
6 years ago
Reply to  flyingjohn

Definitely can see Big Pharma keen on this with all the money to be made from a vaccine… however, if they kill the golden goose that’s going to pay for it in the process (global recession rapidly approaching) they may have shot themselves in the foot.

swedenborg
swedenborg
6 years ago

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0141076820945282
 
This just published Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine article questions Sweden’s strategy.They are still requiring 60 % herd immunity

Four months into the COVID-19 pandemic, Sweden’s prized herd immunity is nowhere in sight

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  swedenborg

How do they explain the fact that Sweden is largely open for business and deaths and cases are largely gone?

swedenborg
swedenborg
6 years ago
Reply to  Julian

They can’t explain that.They can’t even explain that when a pandemic peters out by definition herd immunity must have been reached .That doesn’t exclude a second wave later when more elderly non-immune have been accumulated.But to say they have not reached herdimmunity when the pandemic has died down is a contradiction.Crazy to say 60% nobody knows but the pandemic has gone some form of stable immunity has been reached whatever our limited tests tell us.

Will
Will
6 years ago

Headline in the Telegraph saying 9/10 pubs are not observing the ludicrous rules and guidelines yet, remarkably there has been no increase in calls to 999 or 111, no increase in pillar 1 positive tests, no increase in hospital admissions and hardly any increase in actual cases after 6 weeks of pubs being open. If a scientist was observing the data they might say the rules appear to be a touch pointless!?!?

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago
Reply to  Will

This sounds like it may be based on the Sky News covert operation that found 9/10 pubs didn’t ask for peoples personal details.

Gerry Mandarin
Gerry Mandarin
6 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

Only been asked at one pub. Wrote down D. Duck and gave our childhood phone number

Darryl
Darryl
6 years ago
Reply to  Will

The scientists and establishment really seem to resent seeing people not acting like slaves to the state and enjoying themselves. Every sunny weekend they moan about beach goers. It is going to be a harsh miserable winter if we don’t reduce the influence of these people. Look forward to Australian police state tactics.

Kevin
Kevin
6 years ago
Reply to  Will

It depends who the scientist works for! If they work for the government they’d just ignore the objective evidence.

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago

Our plane is on the move again, right now…
https://tar1090.adsbexchange.com/?icao=400bf8

anon
anon
6 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

wth are they up to?

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago
Reply to  anon

Its just landed Doncaster after doing a loop of Grantham.

Seriously does anybody know of Grantham’s CCTV status? Does it have WORKING CCTV?

anon
anon
6 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

fully working when there aren’t any trrrrrist atax happening as far as I know

Paul
Paul
6 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

The CCTV is a moot point here,they claim it works 24/7 but a few incidents over the years have proved this not to be true.

Sam Vimes
Sam Vimes
6 years ago
Reply to  anon

Probably just surveying for mass grave sites. Second wave and all that.

Lili
Lili
6 years ago
Reply to  anon

Bringing in more of the migrant army?

Paul
Paul
6 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

I thought I heard it earlier,it might have scuttled off as a thunderstorm was approaching from the south,it missed us though.
It is starting to unnerve me a bit,I’ve never seen a plane doing this before,even the military aircraft around here get fed-up after a couple of passes !.

swedenborg
swedenborg
6 years ago

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.10.20172288v1

Interesting article about BCG vaccination booster before the C-19 outbreak in UAE
 
Results: 71 subjects received the booster vaccination. This group had zero cases of positive COVID 19 infection. 209 subjects did not receive the vaccination, with 18 positive PCR confirmed COVID 19 cases The infection rate in the unvaccinated group was 8.6% versus zero in the booster vaccinated group. (Fishers exact test p-value=0.004)

Conclusion : Our findings demonstrated the potential effectiveness of the booster BCG vaccine, specifically the booster in preventing Covid-19 infections in an elevated-risk healthcare population.

swedenborg
swedenborg
6 years ago

Predicting the Trajectory of Any COVID19 Epidemic From the Best Straight Line

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.26.20140814v2.full.pdf

This is Michael Levitt preprint 30th June. For the mathematicians to judge.

Little Red Hen
Little Red Hen
6 years ago

This is from my daughter’s school. It is in their FAQs about the return to school in September. It’s very sensible.
The bit below it worries me though – the peer pressure can be huge in secondary schools.
I shall reserve judgement until September and my daughter tells me how it’s actually going. Then I will find out whether the teachers are logical adults or whinging windbags…

“Public Health England does not (based on current evidence) recommend the use of face coverings in schools. This evidence will be kept under review. They are not required in schools as pupils and staff are mixing in consistent groups, and because misuse may inadvertently increase the risk of transmission. There may also be negative effects on communication and thus education.”
 
Based on this guidance, students do not need to wear a face mask. However, they are welcome to do so if they wish.

Paul
Paul
6 years ago
Reply to  Little Red Hen

You can see where this is going and what the reality will be,if the teenagers around here are a measure to go by then it will be muzzles for everyone.

Little Red Hen
Little Red Hen
6 years ago
Reply to  Paul

That is my worry too.
Mine will hold their own but the other pupils don’t necessarily come from naturally disobedient households such as mine.
If there is peer pressure, I will a make it a big issue with the head & governors. It will be a case of bullying / discrimination. Hard for a school to defend.

Lili
Lili
6 years ago
Reply to  Paul

Exemptions can be downloaded from everywhere. And you can google pictures of slaves in masks from the 19thC – that should put them off.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Little Red Hen

I imagine that “the usual boys” will have a new game of whipping off the girls masks in the playground, and the sissy boys, leaving them weeping on the asphalt.

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Georgie Porgy, pudding and pie
Stole girls’ masks and made them cry;
When the boys came out to play
He stole theirs too, he’s funny that way.

tonys
tonys
6 years ago

Getting mightily sick of tv presenters getting snarky about job losses and our shiny new recession, do they think they bear no responsibility for spreading the fear that caused this catastrophe on us in the first place? They are truly despicable people, many of them may well personable in their daily lives but collectively they are part of a machine responsible for thousands of deaths. The ‘banality of evil’ exemplified.

Paul
Paul
6 years ago
Reply to  tonys

I hate every last one of them with their smug,patronising,’we’re just like you’ attitudes.
The frightening thing is that most people seem to love them !,morons.

OKUK
6 years ago
Reply to  tonys

Couldn’t agree more! If they were an arsonist they would be saying: “It’s not my fault. I only lit the match. I wasn’t there when the house burned down. “

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  tonys

Bad enough hearing them smarming on the radio but, not having a telly, I don’t have to see them at it.

WhyNow
WhyNow
6 years ago
Reply to  tonys

Could not agree more. From their comfortable secure jobs they create mayhem, and revel in the disaster that results.

Annie
Annie
6 years ago

Masked vampire warning to shoppers







Compulsory mask wearing is proving a boon to Britain’s vampire community, Tanith Nonose of the Ministry of Disinformation and State Covid Terrorism revealed yesterday. 







‘The mask makes it impossible to identify vampires from their most distinguishing characteristics – their teeth – and that is making it easy for them to prey on the rest of the population’, said Ms Nonose.







‘We estimate that about 25% of the people in supermarkets are vampires, and the numbers are rising exponentially with each fresh vampire attack. And they may be lurking anywhere in the store. Don’t count on them hanging around the fresh meat counter: we know they are causing confusion by pretending to examine free-from and even Vegan products.’







 What can we do to protect ourselves?



 ‘It is essential to keep away from other masked shoppers. If any masked shopper approaches within ten metres of you, scream blue murder. Always hang a string of raw garlic round your neck before setting out for the shops. And always keep a stake and mallet handy.’







What about crucifixes?



‘Don’t make me laugh. The Church and all its symbols lost their power as soon as the bishops started licking our lockdown arses.’ 







.What if somebody else thinks I am a… Read more »

Old mum
6 years ago
Reply to  Annie

Please send that to a radio or tv station! 😂

Paul
Paul
6 years ago
Reply to  Annie

Oh dear Annie,as if we didn’t have enough to worry about !.Does that mean 74% are the walking dead and 1% are us,the normals,survivors of the apocalypse ?.

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago
Reply to  Annie

Apparently COVID19 causes the blood to clot around the lungs so fangs may become useless as feeding off an infected victim would be more like eating a black pudding than drinking a Bloody Mary.

Fangs but not fangs.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Annie

Brilliant Annie, I’m tempted to visit a joke shop to get some Dracula Fangs with which to startle ‘no mask’ would be shamers.

swedenborg
swedenborg
6 years ago

This is real not satire

https://twitter.com/WCIA3Bret/status/1293352208017362944

Golf: Masks worn by athletes at all times, except when taking a shot. Use of hand sanitizer recommended before and after each hole and after a round and when going out to, and coming in from, the course. Masks must be worn on bus at all times to/from events
Comment:

So we’re looking at players potentially taking off and putting on their mask 70-100 times per 18 holes? That seems way more unsanitary and unsafe than just allowing them to golf unmasked considering it’s outdoors and they’re adolescents

skipper
skipper
6 years ago
Reply to  swedenborg

My belief is that masks have have been enforced to increase infections, not reduce them. From wearing one, and my observations of other shows that you touch your face multiple times when wearing one, putting on, and taking off, so whatever is on your hands will eventually make it’s way into your eyes, nose or mouth.

It’s a backdoor way of obtaining herd immunity.

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago
Reply to  skipper

I have a feeling you rar right about this, either that or its something way more sinister.

anon
anon
6 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

the psychological impacts of being muzzled seems to be lost on the masses

servitude, dehumanisation and all out submission to a defunct and sick state come to mind

how is this lost on people EVEN with the propaganda I just cannot fathom

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  anon

Makes some people think they are helping humanity, some feel morally superior, others think it makes them safe and anyway its compulsory innit.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  skipper

I’ve thought it was to deliberately cause infections that could be presented as the elusive Second Wave.
Your suggestion that it’s a ‘backdoor way to obtaining herd immunity’ is interesting, shows the contempt in which they hold us but at least it’s not so cynical.

Philip P
Philip P
6 years ago
Reply to  swedenborg

You are, if you’re in the USA. Worth mentioning

swedenborg
swedenborg
6 years ago

M Gabriela M Gomes.
One  of the scientists involved in the immunity of C-19
Very sensible twitter thread about C-19 pandemic and immunity and our response

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1293316159169847296.html

Brian Sides
Brian Sides
6 years ago

Foundation Furniture Ltd in Bridgend has gone into administration
under Price waterhouse Coopers they have started laying of people. Beginning with 40 choosing those not entitled to redundancy money. I know two of them but they will not be showing up on the unemployment or universal credit statistics as they are returning to there native Romania. The loss from spending from all the immigrants that return home will effect the economy. I would not be surprised if the expensive furniture making equipment will be asset stripped and the welsh grants written off. As happened when the mines were closed in Wales. After the 2008 crash the banks started recalling in loans and putting in financial advisors and auditors that asset stripped many previously going concerns. Where there’s muck there’s money.

Basileus
Basileus
6 years ago

For those reading this who are Christians and are wondering whether their churches have reacted correctly to the government edict, you should read this by Joe Boot of the Ezra Institute:

https://www.ezrainstitute.ca/resource-library/articles/freedom-the-church-and-state-absolutism/

Here is a quote:

What has become even clearer in recent months is that we are entering an era (likely protracted) of struggle for the freedom of the church in Britain, not just with the state and its bureaucracy, but with Christian leaders themselves, some of whom are emerging as committed apologists for the secular state and its egalitarian agenda ………. There has never been a shortage of cultural leaders ready to support and advise falling down before the image of the absolutist state when the music plays – to obey the state without question – it is always the Daniels and his three friends ready to pray despite the king’s edict, or refusing to bow down to overreaching political power, who are in short supply. Tyranny frequently wears the smiling face of public health and safety, and always claims to be in the best interest of ‘the people,’ which makes the complacent, indolent and cavalier attitude of some Christian leaders regarding church closures incomprehensible.

Mark II
Mark II
6 years ago
Reply to  Basileus

I’m not religious at all, but we can all get on board with that message, perfectly articulated.

Fiat
Fiat
6 years ago
Reply to  Basileus

Thanks, Basileus. A sobering message, which I have shared further.

Ed Phillips
Ed Phillips
6 years ago
Reply to  Basileus

I read it yesterday. It is truly excellent.

ChrisW
ChrisW
6 years ago
Reply to  Basileus

Good discussion on the same subject here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NWLNvNbkfY

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Basileus

Post C of E but I remember enough to take that on board. We need more Onward Christian Soldiers like him.

Kevin
Kevin
6 years ago
Reply to  Basileus

Yes, I’ve been in touch with Christian Concern to thank them for their stance and for Joe Boot’s articles. Some in the independent body that I belong to seem to be going down the secular state apologists route. I’m in the process of writing a blog in response to it. It all sounds very good, with Romans 13:1 ‘ Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.’ being used to support the argument to do what the government says, which under normal circumstances I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with. However, we are not in normal circumstances and I think that Romans 13 is being used to hide behind and is being used to conceal passive acceptance of what is going on and a lack of courage to stand up for the truth and the well being of church members, namely telling them they don’t need to be so afraid or adjust their lifestyles so much.

Little Red Hen
Little Red Hen
6 years ago

Some sweaty interfering idiot used the ‘mask = seatbelt’ analogy towards my bare face yesterday.
I looked at their damp, cotton rag and asked to see its MOT equivalent.
They looked (I think they looked) supercilious and so I asked again if they had a certificate proving the efficacy and safety of their handmade face-nappy, like I received annually for my car’s seat belts.
They drifted off, pulling at their sweaty face nappy and then, horror!, pulling their sweaty pants out of their sweaty buttocks. I called after them, ‘Lovely! Your hygiene levels are up their with my neighbour’s fox-poo-rolling dog. But at least he doesn’t demand I join in!!’

Happy sweaty Wednesday folks. The Masked Morons are really suffering. Hooray! Thank you God…! 😁

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago
Reply to  Little Red Hen

The sweaty hypoxic idiots

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Little Red Hen

Any more ‘accessible’ word for Petri Dish ?

Little Red Hen
Little Red Hen
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

We call them ‘Petri-masks’ in our house….amongst other less scientific / more abusive things…

Bella Donna
Bella Donna
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

I think petri dish is an excellent comparison with face nappies.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Bella Donna

But the great unwashed don’t know what a petri dish is, ‘germ farm’s perhaps.

anon
anon
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

‘germ flannel’ perhaps?

Sam Vimes
Sam Vimes
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

The sheep would understand ‘test tube’ better. Still a bit clangy.

Sam Vimes
Sam Vimes
6 years ago
Reply to  Little Red Hen

Nice one!

OKUK
6 years ago
Reply to  Little Red Hen

Good thinking on the spot, delivering that v effective riposte! Sort of thing I would think of two minutes after the altercation ended!!

Little Red Hen
Little Red Hen
6 years ago
Reply to  OKUK

Ahhhh… but have you been honing your ‘riposte’ skills with acerbic, sceptical, judgemental and quick-witted teenage children?
I have.
For years.
They do not give any quarter….

(I do love them. Mostly…)

JohnB
JohnB
6 years ago
Reply to  Little Red Hen

Plus you can always use your teenagers to practise self-defense, pain compliance, maiming, etc. 🙂

Paul
Paul
6 years ago
Reply to  Little Red Hen

Give me a fox poo rolling dog instead of most humans any day !.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
6 years ago
Reply to  Little Red Hen

Well done!!!

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago

Increased hospitalisation got sussed weeks ago, shove more not very ill people into hospital and there’s your headline. Surprise surprise recovery rate goes up.
That’s why it’s now all about The Cases.

swedenborg
swedenborg
6 years ago

https://financialnewsnetwork.com/business-news/99441-new-zealand-investigates-a-common-suspect-in-its-mysterious-new-covid-cluster?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

From NZ.Saint Jacinda to blame frozen food like China?But more cases coming?

“We know the virus can survive within refrigerated environments for quite some time,” Bloomfield told a media conference. In Auckland, authorities are testing a cold storage unit where one of the infected family members worked for the virus(??).
The city—the largest city in New Zealand—is under a “level 3” lockdown, requiring people to stay home except for essential trips, while officials attempt to trace the virus.
Members of the infected family had traveled to a local tourist site and another member had gone to work, where other staff are now showing symptoms”

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago
Reply to  swedenborg

Let’s be like Dick Dastardly and Muttley…

Stop the pigeon.jpg
Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

Trouble is, Klunk is the Prime Minister.

Bella Donna
Bella Donna
6 years ago
Reply to  swedenborg

They seem to clutch at any straw to maintain the lie and keep in power. Its winter in New Zealand so its the colds and flu season too, they’ll keep this going for some time!

Lili
Lili
6 years ago
Reply to  swedenborg

“We know the virus can survive within refrigerated environments for quite some time,” Is this another warming up exercise for the ‘muzzles outside at all times’ diktat coming down the wire when the weather gets colder?

Steve Martindale
Steve Martindale
6 years ago

As I write this I am listening to Carl Heneghan on the radio 4 More or Less programme, brilliant, a must listen https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000llw2 Should be compulsory listening for the Government, SAGE etc. More or less seems to be the only BBC programme that come closest to critically examining Covid hoo-haa.

Ned of the Hills
Ned of the Hills
6 years ago

Thanks for the tip – I’ll listen to later using my iPad. Right now I’m going off for a plod – but not in Martindale Mr Martindale – such a fondly remembered images comes to mind when I think of the place – the old church and the reading room. I hope you’ve been there yourself?

Steve Martindale
Steve Martindale
6 years ago

Thanks, been there several times and signed the book – great place.

Sam Vimes
Sam Vimes
6 years ago

Seems Morrison’s Cafe is doing the 50% deal every day of the week. The increased footfall, combined with ‘mask on to walk into the store – mask off to go into cafe – mask back on to leave cafe’ shenanigans should be interesting for the sheep. Plus, snot rags on tables, which are of course not a health risk, when compared to The Deadly Virus ™.

Anonymous
Anonymous
6 years ago

Well thank you very much to the selfish lockdown zealots and bedwetters: we are now officially in recession!! Part of me hope it hurts, because the zealots and bedwetters deserve the pain for their stupidity — I’ll reserve all my sympathy for the sceptics who are the collateral damage in the coronapanic.

Cicatriz
Cicatriz
6 years ago
Reply to  Anonymous

Depression, it’s a greater than 10% decline.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
6 years ago
Reply to  Anonymous

They will do a U turn once they’re hit in the pocket and stomach – redundancy, bankruptcy, unable to find jobs and for those rich pensioners their pensions being raided through tax and the abolition of the triple lock.

John
John
6 years ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53741851 Stockholm and London are similar despite London lockdown and Stockholm not

Annie
Annie
6 years ago
Reply to  John

Big surprise.

Poppy
Poppy
6 years ago
Reply to  John

I suppose this is as close as we’ll get at the present time to the BBC admitting that the Swedish strategy didn’t result in masses of deaths and actually wasn’t that bad at all. However the tone of the article still seems cautious and implies that the UK did the right thing by going into lockdown instead of pursuing the herd immunity strategy. Also disappointing last paragraph – ‘The research suggests the Swedish strategy failed to generate widespread protective immunity‘ – and nothing on T-cell immunity.

Will
Will
6 years ago
Reply to  Poppy

I wouldn’t be surprised if that nonsense was written with a crayon.

mhcp
mhcp
6 years ago
Reply to  John

This is important as it relates to wearing masks and things like that. Masks may help reduce the spray of droplets but that is very different than saying that masks reduce the spread of a virus in the population (which is the reason you wear it).

Systematic risk compensation in multi-variate systems. A very real reality that sadly does not fit into the simple cause-effect way of thinking.

Best expressed by someone trying to get fit and walk more, taking the lift to a floor that sells Stairmasters.

Or going outside for a smoke while wearing a mask.

Compensation of risk in one thing often causes loosening in another

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  mhcp

Read somewhere @LS that with a mask droplets get expelled sideways from the mask which is why surgeons face directly at the patient if they cough or sneeze.
Not much help to those alongside.

mhcp
mhcp
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Yes. The micro aerosols go out the side then hang in the air. The greater risk is contact and in fact what is lovingly called the oral-fecal route.

So if a mask causes you to touch your face more then transmission by contact goes up.

Of course these are small probabilities and there are other ways for you to become infected.

The general principle is that unless you have characterised a system you can’t predict impacts of onw thing as systems organise based on efficiency. Plus your model of the world is limited and gives rise to Black Swans.

James Leary #KBF
James Leary #KBF
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Of course. Otherwise they would blow up and go down like a balloon as you breathe.

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

It’s not just that but as you breath the trapped particles soak into the mask and eventually find their way onto the surface of the mask. At that point every time you exhale you spread whatever was previously on the surface of the mask.

Sam Vimes
Sam Vimes
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Masks are essential to save lives. And it’s so easy! You can just wear it under your chin, or even hung from one ear and it still works! I’m pretty sure you can just have it in your pocket, too, but that might only be from the 8th of August. And those people that don’t wear masks, and haven’t done since lockdown started, well they will surely die anyday now…

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago
Reply to  Sam Vimes

Correction.

Masks are essential to save lives when mandated. Otherwise saving lives is optional.

matt
matt
6 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

No, no, you’ve misunderstood. The timing of the mask mandate is absolutely critical. In order for masks to be effective, they must be compulsory and the mandate must come in at the precise moment when virtually nobody has the virus and just before the weather starts to get hot again. Preferably it should also happen at the exact moment that people are starting to spend money on shops again.

Sam Vimes
Sam Vimes
6 years ago
Reply to  matt

It’s very technical, isn’t it? I don’t think we are meant to understand, really. I’m just glad our government are doing the right thing and keeping us safe.

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago
Reply to  mhcp

Smoking through a mask MIGHT help a bit with Lung Cancer

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  mhcp

Yes, risk compensation and transmission complexities do make the whole idea of mask wearing to reduce spread probably nonsense. Though as we’ve discussed here before, it would arguably be worse if they do have any effect in reducing transmission, because that would mean reducing our collective immune system effectiveness against not just this latest coronavirus, but all respiratory diseases, meaning all such diseases would become less prevalent, but much nastier when caught. Ultimately, we could end up with a self-fulfilling situation where the obsessive avoidance of low level diseases makes those diseases dangerous enough that it makes sense to avoid them.

The result of that would be that we would finally fully become a society in which hygiene obsession and contact avoidance would be everywhere, and a whole raft of ordinary coughs, colds and sneezes would be fully medicalised, with drugs and vaccines used on a much wider basis to deal with them.

A conspiracy theorist could see in that sufficient cui bono to hypothesise a big money conspiracy, I suppose.

And of course a future new coronavirus or other kind of respiratory virus that arises will then cause real devastation until drugs or vaccines were developed to control… Read more »

mhcp
mhcp
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Maybe. But then you often get a flu virus from yourself not from others. You carry around dormant viruses all year then you give yourself a stress event, or due to the weather, experience one. You get sick as your body deals with that without keeping the virus in check. It’s the germ versus the terrain argument.

We walk around with Strep everyday but don’t often get a sore throat.

So I don’t think we are going to be reducing virus “transmission” or produce more deadly viruses just yet. There’s too many transmission vectors and way to get ill.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  mhcp

‘Dormant viruses ‘. Would that explain the recently discussed episodes where people isolated for weeks on end (ice stations/ships) suddenly find themselves infected ?

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  John

And on the telly/radio version in pained surprise “despite lockdown !?”

Will
Will
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

The amazing thing is they think the data is negative when it actually shows, as does the evidence of a swifter drop off in infections in the capital, that London has already achieved herd immunity, just like Stockholm…

A. Contrarian
A. Contrarian
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

It’ll be the covidiots what done it, all that sitting on beaches, we told you so.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  A. Contrarian

But not the peaceful BLM protesters, obviously.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

I believe “mostly peaceful” is the Official Truth position, citizen. Report to your nearest BBC reeducation camp for a Doctrine Refreshment course.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

The Ministry of Truth have cancelled ‘mostly’, report yourself Citizen

A. Contrarian
A. Contrarian
6 years ago
Reply to  John

Sort of not bad for the beeb although I’d hardly say that the Swedish strategy was to let the virus “sweep” through the population.

Of course they’re deliberately coming at it backwards. Implying Sweden have failed because their antibody levels aren’t higher than London, rather than directly admitting that lockdown made no difference.

And they still don’t seem to have heard of T cells.

Rick H
Rick H
6 years ago
Reply to  A. Contrarian

Patent distortion and arse-about-tit logic, as you say. The general standard of BBC journalism is appalling – apart from Deborah Cohen (?). They simply peddle the preconceived line without any attempt to go and do some basic invesitigative journalism.

Anyone who reports on the subject of immunity at this time without discussing the T-cell factor is, quite frankly, not worth their pay in bent washers. Similarly the tendency to cover up the hard data on Sweden’s relative success without general lock-up and masks.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Rick H

They.must know that come January they won’t be able to hide the, probable,
fact that overall mortality for this year will be much the same as usual (apart from the suicides and domestic abuse murders)

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  Rick H

Cohen has been pretty solid.

stewart
stewart
6 years ago
Reply to  John

I wonder if the government oil tanker is finally turning.

Trump’s press conference yesterday was very interesting. In very clear terms said 3 very interesting things:

  1. He emphasised the protection of the elderly
  2. He suggested that evidence showed the US was building its immunity
  3. He said that the medical profession now had a range of effective therapies against the virus.

I don’t want to get too hopeful, but it seems as if we are finally beginning to come around to the Swedish approach.

Unfortunately, even if true, it will be slow and the back track on masks will be even slower as they won’t want to admit they were wrong on everything.

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago
Reply to  stewart

This will likely coincide with the appointment of Dr Scott Atlas to lead the health response, someone who doesn’t prescribe to the mainstream lockdown narrative.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8613707/Donald-Trump-unveils-new-medical-adviser-wants-schools-opened.html

guy153
guy153
6 years ago
Reply to  John

So after repeating the usual half-truths and myths about immunity they end with a quote from some idiot completely unrelated to the story:

“The research suggests the Swedish strategy failed to generate widespread protective immunity, said Dr Simon Clarke of the University of Reading, who is not connected to the study.”

The torrent of illogic is most amusing. So he’s saying if you don’t lockdown you don’t get herd immunity anyway? Never mind that this isn’t even wrong, if it were somehow true then why did we need a lockdown?

mhcp
mhcp
6 years ago
Reply to  guy153

Because this one goes up to 11

Rick H
Rick H
6 years ago
Reply to  guy153

Fatal illogic : alleged antibodies = immunity.

Victoria
Victoria
6 years ago
Reply to  guy153

Such nonsense – lets think of silly reasons (i.e no herd immunity) to bash Sweden. Early on, think it was an Israeli group predicted that Covid-19 will behave exactly like other new virus outbreaks – high infection rates then it burns out

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Victoria

Israel, almost as bad as Donald man

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  guy153

Let’s get on there and fill the comments section up

Mark II
Mark II
6 years ago
Reply to  John

Surprised BBC covering it at all, however the article is of course trying to paint Sweden in the worst possible light, as always pretending like it *must* be compared to Nordic neighbours instead of vs others, and picking which types of numbers to use, and failing to point out Sweden now has no excess deaths for time of year vs their average…

“In the UK, more than 46,500 people have died in a country of more than 66 million.
In Sweden, there have been more than 5,500 deaths in a country of 10 million, which is one of the highest death rates relative to population size in Europe, and by far the worst among the Nordic nations.”

Typical BBC fear-spin on what _should_ be a positive conclusion of how Sweden has performed – no acknolwedgement of lack of deaths in general population, choosing to count deaths vs size, then making that negative, failing to point out how the % anti bodies was from April, rather than up to date, no mention t-cells…. basically another attempt to discredit Sweden, tho at least they’re finding it harder to do.

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark II

Comparisons with other countries are mostly meaningless. However specifically with the Nordics, a comparison is only meaningful if we know what Sweden’s result would have been if they locked down like the other countries or the other countries didn’t lock down like Sweden.

Sweden may well have ended up with a similar number of deaths had they locked down. Unless we know this then comparison with other countries that took a totally different path are useless.

Mark II
Mark II
6 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

Precisely, the only thing we do know based on real life data is that Sweden did no worse than many countries that did lockdown, in terms of deaths, and that in order to achieve that they didnt trash their economy and abandon all sense and all personal freedoms that I previously thought everyone valued highly.

Rick H
Rick H
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark II

“failing to point out Sweden now has no excess deaths for time of year vs their average…”

… and that in terms of all-cause mortality (the only stable indicator), Sweden does as well as Finland and Denmark in terms of deaths per million.

The BBC is now operating at the level of the tabloid press.

Rick H
Rick H
6 years ago
Reply to  John

London and Stockholm/ England and Sweden are not in the least bit similar when you dig into the figures.

WhyNow
WhyNow
6 years ago

Even more worrying than the present Covid hysteria is the fact that the health guardians have now got their teeth into control of the public, and they will not let go.

There is never going to be an “It’s all over” moment. Governments have now accepted that they are responsible for ensuring that no-one ever gets ill, at any cost. After Covid, it will be the next “health emergency”. And why stop at health? We can have a food emergency (free school meals), an energy emergency (free heating), a jobs emergency (free jobs).

Anonymous
Anonymous
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

Agree. That is why I keep telling people that this government needs to be squarely and firmly removed from office at the next election to dissuade future governments from enacting similar measures in the future. Politicians need to know that they cannot do this to people with impunity, or it will happen again.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Anonymous

Replaced with what, there’s no Sceptic Churchill in view.

Albie
Albie
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

I agree. Labour with the unions will be even worse. That said, I get the feeling Starmer may, just may, personally not be a bedwetter. At his first PMQ he immediately asked about lockdown exit strategy which most hysterics wouldn’t have dreamed of asking from their spot under the safety of their beds. I sensed he wanted to be more forthright about lockdown but with him being new to the job he didn’t want to irk Labour voters so soon. Especially as he’s trying to get Corbynites on board, they are the most pro-lockdown, tell us what to do, wear masks forever, of everyone.

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  Albie

Stop voting if there’s no acceptable choice
Spoiled ballot paper
Allow a freedom and truth loving party to emerge
Hitchens approach

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago
Reply to  Julian

SPOIL THEM BALLOTS, it’s the ONLY HOPE. They are counted.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

Would be interesting if Spoiled Ballots got a majority at a by election

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Exactly. It wouldn’t change the result, but would raise eyebrows concerning the legitimacy to govern.

Rick H
Rick H
6 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

… but don’t count. Keep real.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Rick H

But the numbers are declared by the Returning Officer live on telly for all to see.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  Rick H

If you just want to replace the “Conservative” lockdowners with “Labour” lockdowners, Rick, just say so openly. I don’t think you are fooling anyone.

Jonathan Palmer
Jonathan Palmer
6 years ago
Reply to  Albie

Is that the same Keir Starmer who was straight on his knee during the BLM protests?

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago

Nobody in Parliament stood against this nonsense. None to trust in it, but who to trust out of it?

Anonymous
Anonymous
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Don’t know. But we need to send out a strong, clear message to politicians at the next election not to do this to us again, otherwise they will. I intend to not vote — I shall ruin my ballot paper.

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Anonymous

Dolan is the only hope here. If his appeal fails, then we now we live in a dictatorship, no matter how soft.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  Anonymous

Since the opposition parties were absolutely complicit, in fact their main criticism throughout has always been “why not harder and faster?”, voting this party out and voting say Labour in would just be interpreted as approving of their criticism that the lockdown was correct but the implementation was bad/slow.

At the moment, the only option is not voting, which does not have no effect, but doesn’t have a strong, direct or immediate effect. Much better would be for parties to arise on the right of the “Conservative” Party and left of the “Labour” Party that actually meaningfully resist the establishment consensus. That will take time to develop, but if there were to be a drop off in support for the established (corrupt) Blairite parties then new parties would arise to fill the vacuum.

However, remember we (sceptics) are a tiny minority, so straightforward democratic action is not a solution for us at the moment anyway. We would have to first increase our numbers by education and campaigning, and second act as minority lobby groups do to leverage the influence we can bring to bear.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

Public Health has been prepped for years to be put into this position of being all powerful. The emergency bill confers some constable powers to selected public health professionals. Public health is not a profession to be trusted.

The Dutch police have been in touch with police scotland under an international effort to learn best practice for policing public health. This has 15 or so nations involved in the project.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

SAGE should be renamed
The Committee of Public Safety

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Politburo more like.

A. Contrarian
A. Contrarian
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

They’ve realised that everyone will just happily die at home to keep the hospitals nice and empty for “emergencies”, so they will definitely want to keep it going.

James Leary #KBF
James Leary #KBF
6 years ago

I’m going to the dentist this morning. A tooth fell out, probably due to having no red meat fed to me by this government. Organising it was like a Mormon applying for a job shagging the scientologist’s sacrificial goat. And £95 to be issued with a QR code to get through the locked door. Fucking insane. I hope they are prepared for mega piss-taking. I may have to be sedated.

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago

I just wrote to my dentist’s practice manager:

Thanks for the reply Karen,

I have sent a few in reply to your marketing mail-outs but this is a first reply I got.

I hope what I said isn’t going to “get me in trouble” but honestly I feel that the measures to control a virus are ridiculous in the extreme. I have no idea why dental practices in the UK and the BDA have not stood up to these incredible restrictions on how dentists operate let alone allow all dental practices to be shut down totally for 3 months.

This was nothing short of extremely cruel and very very damaging.

Especially as firstly SARS2-Cov is less dangerous than flu, it’s not the black death, most people who get “it” won’t even know they have it.  Hardly anybody in the UK has “it” now, we have reached “heard immunity”.

Of the unlucky few that do “catch it” a tiny proportion of them might feel slightly unwell, a smaller proportion of them might be substantially unwell but will recover with no problems with no medical intervention needed. Only a tiny proportion of people who contract SARS2Cov will actually need any kind of medical… Read more »

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

Yes she is ACTUALLY called Karen. lol

anon
anon
6 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

honestly I was really hoping her name wasn’t Karen

great letter though

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

That will go way over Karen’s head but it’s a good summary of the main points, mind if I keep it for reference?

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

sure

Margaret
6 years ago

WESTMINSTER SCHOOL FOR THE CRIMINALLY INSANE

Johnson Boris

School report 2020

POLITICS: A very disappointing year. Boris has made very little effort in this department and in fact has been absent for most of the classes. If he is to improve on his poor showing, he needs to ensure that he ups his attendance rate to 100%. He has shown very little grasp of key issues such as conservatism and totalitarianism. Estimated grade:D

BIOLOGY:Boris has shown a total lack of knowledge and understanding of the human body. His work on the immune system was well below the standard expected at this stage of the course. He must not rely on others to provide him with answers but must engage in more thorough research on his own behalf. Estimated grade: E

STATISTICS: Boris’s grasp of the very basics of this subject is appalling. He still insists on using an abacus to work out complex mathematical processes with the result that outcomes are grossly exaggerated. Estimated grade:Unclassified

PSYCHOLOGY: Oh dear. Where do I start? Boris has shown very little understanding of the human psyche. He plays to the gallery too often during these classes and as a result has made some… Read more »

wendyk
wendyk
6 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

Brilliant Margaret! Should be sent to Westmonster.

Could you do one for Hancock’s Half Hour as well?

BTLnewbie
BTLnewbie
6 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

Thanks Margaret – a wonderful start to the day that made Mrs BTL and I giggle 😊

anon
anon
6 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

brilliant. provided a much needed chuckle!

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

Best laugh of the day thank you Margaret.

Just as well the school does not grade P.E., his lack of effort is clear from his stature

TJN
TJN
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Yes, it’s funny – but also with its serious undertones very true. Margaret has hit on something here.

He’s intellectually lazy – the absolute antithesis of a Churchill or Thatcher.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  TJN

That’s the reason it’s funny, dark humour hitting close to the bone.

TJN
TJN
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Like most of the best humour.

I wonder whether that’s why Lockdown Zealots don’t do humour – they don’t like the truth, or at least subversive truth.

Annie
Annie
6 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

Send him on to the Fetida Dickhead University of Applied Fascism. Should do well there.

Geraint
Geraint
6 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

ENGLISH: Boris insists on twisting meanings of sentences and using illogical constructs to make points, that simply fail to stand up to even the most basic scrutiny. He needs to learn to construct an argument that holds water and be able to defend that in a coherent manner. Finally the use of obscure Latin quotes, picked for effect, is not necessary and is not an indication of intelligence.

Margaret
6 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

I think that with a report like this, expulsion is in order.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
6 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

Brilliant!!!

HISTORY: Boris has shown a clear lack of understanding of history. He has demonstrated a lack of nuance and awareness of the past and how it was different to the present. Focusing too much on Churchill but has failed to apply Churchillian ideas; has not paid attention to lessons about Chamberlain and Eden as well as Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Estimated grade: Massive Epic F

TheBluePill
TheBluePill
6 years ago

I can’t take much more of this shit. Almost every “fact” that comes from the media or politicians is a lie or distortion. Take this one from BBC:

“Coronavirus cases in France have nearly doubled in the past 24 hours as Prime Minister Jean Castex warned that the country had been going “the wrong way” for two weeks.”

A cursory glance at the data shows that the figure for the last 24 hours is actually the second lowest of the last seven days. Because Monday saw a large decrease they spin Tuesday’s figures as a huge increase. Not that the false positive count is of any import anyway.

Why is no one apart from us spotting this for themselves and why is this industrial-scale lying being permitted without challenge?

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  TheBluePill

False positives + positive tests probably from more testing, largely of the healthy. I wonder if the general public really believe that the “cases” quoted now are equivalent of the “cases” quoted while the curve was going up, when a fair few of those cases were actually rather ill. I like to think not.

Barney McGrew
Barney McGrew
6 years ago
Reply to  TheBluePill

It’s the politicians’ desire to put the worst possible interpretation on the figures that baffles me.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Barney McGrew

Spreads the costs over larger numbers.

Rick H
Rick H
6 years ago
Reply to  Barney McGrew

Well – if the truth was accepted, the rationale for all this nonsense, and the control that goes with it, would disappear.

Mark II
Mark II
6 years ago
Reply to  TheBluePill

We on here obviously knew this was the only logical result of lockdowns, and that there is no logical way out without them admitting mistakes.

You lockdown, it stops it spreading so quickly, you relax measures, cases pop up a bit. Quelle surprise. If it’s been the wrong direction for 2 weeks, we should start seeing an increase in deaths for France… I won’t hold my breath.

As a cyclist, I’ll be bloody livid if they use these case increases to cancel the Tour de France for a 2nd time this year!! About the only sporting joy possible this year is watching the racing, after they absolutely destroyed football by banning any fans (why no one is querying why you can’t let 20,000 into a 60,000 capacity stadium at the very least is beyond me) and the twats in the UK have banned bike races I could actually take part in completely. The twits at my regular 5-a-side team are still terrified of returning – great way to get the nation healthy Boris – ban sporting competitions.

skipper
skipper
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark II

Regarding “why no one is querying why you can’t let 20,000 into a 60,000 capacity stadium at the very least is beyond me”. I think this is down to the perceived issue of legal action in case there was an outbreak and it was linked back to them. My local non league side is the same, we only get 100-200 fans a game and the stadium could easily accommodate 2,000 but there is too high a risk to the club to re-open the gates in case an infection was linked to them.

Also, we did play a match a few weeks where fans were allowed because the oppositions ground was within a public park. You should’ve seen the backlash they got from the idiots on social media because fans were there, it was the usual “you’re killing people, “utter stupidity” “COVIDIOTS”, “here comes the second wave”, etc. There is some absolute idiots about and this country will never get back to normal as they are the voices that are being heard.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  skipper

I’ve said before what is needed is a Covid indemnity all round, come to.our whatever at your own risk (with exceptions for recklessness by the providers), but that would require johnson to admit there was not much risk in the first place.

FrankiiB
FrankiiB
6 years ago

Teachers Conspiracy

I wanted to mention this hearsay from a teacher friend who works in an academy whose CEO Head is a member of Gavin Williamson’s Headteacher Advisory Panel.
She told her staff in March April to massively overestimate grades because the Minister and the DFE did not know what they were doing and she felt they could force through estimated grades. So they did.

Honest teachers – you will now be judged failures and your pupils will look worse as a result.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  FrankiiB

That Afvisory Panel would be like a Common Purpose picnic – the perfect positions to losd with NLP.

There’s an amount of distracting chaos to be realeased tomorrow to keep the braying masked mob amused for a further week or so. With the economic results today it feels like the propagandistas are going to work especially hard to keep the braying masked mob onside.

Gillian
Gillian
6 years ago

Here is a comment from an article in the Telegraph yesterday about job losses as a result of the lockdown. This sums everything up. Thanks to the author Douglas.

A storm is coming indeed ! In more ways than one. The fall-out from these four months of unnecessary lockdown are only just beginning to be appoarent.
The economy is wrecked and will take decades to overcome. People dying in thousands as a direct consequence – far far more than any directly due to this low-fatality grade Covid virus. Unemployment and businesses going bust . . .on and on . . more and more damage the half of which you ain’t seen yet !
And why? All because of the unbelievable incompetence of a pig-headed Boris and his useless government !
His decision to impose lockdown is the biggest political and very real blunder of modern times for this country. It is as stupid and inneffectual as Chamberlain ‘s ‘Peace in our time’ blunder . .waving his useless bit of paper after Munich !
“Squash the sombrero” was Boris’ chant on camera . . . and was as big a blunder as Chamberlain’s:
. . . there was NO danger to… Read more »

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
6 years ago
Reply to  Gillian

Should Boris be….

a) fired
b) imprisoned
c) shot

Your vote?

anon
anon
6 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

a then b then c

Annie
Annie
6 years ago
Reply to  anon

Agreed.
Also stabbed and hanged. The good old threefold death routine.

Cicatriz
Cicatriz
6 years ago
Reply to  Annie

After the hanging, what about the drawing and quartering?

wendyk
wendyk
6 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

a) now!

Trouble is-who would replace him? I dread to think.We need someone with moral courage and enough clout to see off Sturgeon and the mendacious MSM.

Any suggestions? I’m genuinely interested.

Barney McGrew
Barney McGrew
6 years ago
Reply to  wendyk

Lord Sumption

Annie
Annie
6 years ago
Reply to  Barney McGrew

Or, if he refuses, Screaming Lord Sutch. We need a sane person in charge.

AidanR
AidanR
6 years ago
Reply to  wendyk

Replacing him will be easy.

comment image&f=1&nofb=1

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  wendyk

Sunak or Gove maybe. Of the realistic candidates. They are guilty too in my book, but maybe a bit less so.

Gillian
Gillian
6 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

Exiled to New Zealand, with permanently closed borders. He will be bored shitless there for the rest of his life. Which won’t be long unless he loses some of those excess kilos.

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  Gillian

I like that idea. There’s a certain poetic justice to it. Otherwise I would like to think we have some laws here that cover what has been done. If we do, they should certainly be applied.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
6 years ago
Reply to  Gillian

Better St Helena – just like Napoleon.

TheBluePill
TheBluePill
6 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

Is option “a” fired as in “at the stake”? If so then definitely that one.

Ned of the Hills
Ned of the Hills
6 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

d) be made to wear a mask for the rest of his days.

Two-Six
Two-Six
6 years ago

and blue gloves and a freekin visor

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

a and b, Neds d while b.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
6 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

All of the above plus defenestration before the shooting.

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

Just Boris? Can I have the rest of the Establishment please? All of it?

Victoria
Victoria
6 years ago
Reply to  Gillian

low-fatality grade Covid virus

Indeed

WhyNow
WhyNow
6 years ago
Reply to  Gillian

National responses to the pandemic.

I agree that the government has allowed itself to be misled by the health professionals. The same has happened across the world.

I cannot imagine the opposite scenario: in March, the Chief Medical Officer and the Chief Scientific Adviser tell the government they need to impose a lockdown or everyone will die – and the government says “No, my guess is it’s a harmless bug”. Come on, that’s just not credible.

Margaret
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

Whitty is on record from the very beginning saying most of us wouldn’t get this virus throughout the whole epidemic. Of those that did, most wouldn’t know they’d got it. A few would need a day or two in bed, some might need hospital treatment, a tiny proportion would need intensive care but recover and a very few people would die.

WhyNow
WhyNow
6 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

He said the fatality rate was estimated at 4%. It isn’t tenable now to argue that the health professionals were NOT demanding lockdown.

And the rest of the world? Was the government responsible for all those too? The lockdowns in France, Italy, Spain, Portugal: all more severe than here and all the work of Boris?

It is a global hysteria. Look at what is happening in Australia and New Zealand!

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

It is global hysteria, but how does that excuse reckless action? Or are you saying it’s acceptable for a PM to be hysterical? Isn’t this more or less the Nuremberg Defence?

WhyNow
WhyNow
6 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Of course not. But if you want to blame the government, you would have to a) explain why everyone else across the world did the same and b) have a plausible scenario where the government did something different back in March.

I’m not defending the government. What they are doing is crazy. But it would be simplistic not to look across the world and see the same happening everywhere. The forces of hysteria are much bigger than a single government.

TJN
TJN
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

To be fair, this is lot in this. Governments across the world have done the same. But those governments aren’t accountable to us, and it doesn’t absolve Johnson et al.’s incompetence and dishonesty.

To diagnose and deal with the problems here, we surely do need to recognise that the same problems have been exhibited throughout most of the Western World.

‘a plausible scenario where the government did something different back in March’: that one’s easy: Sweden.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  TJN

And Belarus.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  TJN

“‘a plausible scenario where the government did something different back in March’: that one’s easy: Sweden.”

And indeed that was broadly our policy until the crucial week in March when it was thrown away in a contemptible panic response.

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

It was panicking in the face of a rapidly increasing death rate and the sniping from the MSM. Of course, the government may well have unleashed the MSM monster themselves, I’m sure we’ll learn the full truth of that one day.

This does not excuse the government or, indeed, any other part of the establishment for the mess. People themselves look to their leaders for leadership in times of crisis and found none. No wonder they’re still a bit on the dazed side!

Even among those who sought peace in 1940, there was no (obvious) panic from the government. Churchill may have been unique when faced with no allies outside the Commonwealth and a few Free forces, half our trade and supplies being sunk in the Atlantic, an enemy air force about to bomb our cities, AND a serious cash flow problem, but he did not panic. Nor did he allow others to panic.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  Nick Rose

Indeed. This, I think, is the measure of the real personal failure of Johnson at the crucial moment.

Jonathan Palmer
Jonathan Palmer
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

The peak of the infection had already been reached before lockdown.
To absolve our government because others went into lockdown is ridiculous.
I can’t explain where the pressure came from to lockdown because I wasn’t privy to it but I know it wasn’t scientific and for an alternative course of action one word.
SWEDEN

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago

The government was facing whichever way the wind was blowing strongest. This is not the first government to be found lacking in its crisis management. Cameron with the floods, Blair with food and mouth, Major with BSE, and in a different era, Heath and Callaghan with the unions, were all found wanting.

Fed up
Fed up
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

agree global hysteria. But Boris and co are responsible for failing to exercise leadership once it was clear that the NHS would not collapse. Failing to get schools back before summer break, failing to get NHS to deliver the services we all pay for as well as the introduction of pointless face coverings which may (more likely will) cause unnecessary suffering to a vast number of people. Please feel free to add to the list.

Annie
Annie
6 years ago
Reply to  Julian

The classic Nuremberg defence was ‘only following orders’.

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Annie

Unless you were Speer of course. “I accept responsibility but am not responsible. It was him! Him! Sauckel!!”

Margaret
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

Have you got a link for Whitty saying the fatality rate was 4% please? I can only remember China saying it was 3-4% in the early days but then it revised that number down considerably when it realised that more people had been infected than they first realised.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

I remember Whitty saying most people won’t get it. He have a numerical value. He then went on to unpack the likelihood like a series of Russian dolls – if you are fit and healthy you may only get a sniffle but a tiny group will need medical attention. Of those who do a really tiny group will need to go to hospital. Of those an even smaller group will need a drip…and so on.

Jonathan Palmer
Jonathan Palmer
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Yep he said it least twice.once for the whole nation in the cabinet press conference.ive saved it on my phone just to remind myself and send to relatives who have been overly frightened by the government

WhyNow
WhyNow
6 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

It would be an extraordinary re-writing of history to believe that Johnson caused a lockdown against the advice of the health professionals.

Jonathan Palmer
Jonathan Palmer
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

Read the sage minutes.They go up to March 18.
I think you are the one rewriting history

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

Before our lockdown S.Korea randomly tested thousands of young people and found a great many of them were Covid Survived, thus greatly reducing their fatality rate.
That’s when ‘they’re started saying immunity may not last very long.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

I don’t see it as hysteria at it’s core. There are many countries who did not go headless chicken. There is a pattern surrounding which have turned most hysterical. The globalist G20 ones in particular.

The chaos causing politicians cheer led the whipping up of hysterial reaction. Connected by the societies, clubs and globalist organisations – the WEF, the UN/WHO, Foundations, etc. and scholars with rich patrons.

There is no feeling of organic natural reation to the problem of an new, but not overly deadly virus. The reaction globally has been contrived and co ordinated.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

“It isn’t tenable now to argue that the health professionals were NOT demanding lockdown”

It is nothing like as simple as that. If you read the notorious Imperial College report that was so profoundly wrong and did so much harm, even that didn’t suggest the full lockdown that was ultimately put in place, presumably because they didn’t consider there was any plausible possibility of enacting it effectively and on a sustained basis):

“Combining all four interventions (social distancing of the entire population, case isolation, household quarantine [of cases, not the whole population] and school and university closure) is predicted to have the largest impact, short of a complete lockdown which additionally prevents people going to work.”
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

There was a complex and very interesting feedback interaction at the crucial time between politicians, media and the particular experts and “influencers” that were being listened to, in which the groupthink evolved to grossly exaggerate the fears and to persuade themselves that increased measures could be justified. They are all culpable, but the politicians have leadership responsibility here.

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

Hysteria and, for some ungodly unknown reason, adopting tactics employed by Communist China to “combat” the virus.

A. Contrarian
A. Contrarian
6 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

Didn’t that video get censored on YouTube for promoting such heresy?

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

I’m not sure “everyone else did it” is much of a defence, neither is “he told me to do it”. It’s the politicians job to evaluate all the evidence, and make a decision based on the effect on the country as a whole. The scientists’ remit is narrower. For starters, they admitted no cost benefit analysis was done. That in itself is inexcusable. What’s been done since – doubling down and introducing bullshit theatrical measures, knowing that the “danger” is nothing like what may have been originally believed – cannot be excused at all.

In any case, no-one say “everyone will die” and neither is anyone saying the response should have been “it’s a harmless bug”.

The PM & co must shoulder most of the responsibility for this. They sought high office, and came up short. That’s how it works.

WhyNow
WhyNow
6 years ago
Reply to  Julian

The idea that a UK government, alone across the world, would decide not to lockdown is fanciful.

We should concentrate on the present. Government needs some help from the public in seeing that this was all an hysterical overreaction.

BTLnewbie
BTLnewbie
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

The lockdown was for three weeks to reduce the peak of cases and buy time for the NHS to cope. A cost-benefit analysis, if done at the time, may have decided that this was credible.
It was becoming clear that the IFR (calc by Ferguson 0.9%) was overstated.
Mid-April was Gov’t’s opportunity to get the country back to normal, and they blew it.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  BTLnewbie

Should have said after 3 weeks ‘the worst is over, back to work everyone, thanks for saving the NHS, oldies and vulnerable can keep shielding until they feel safe.’

Sam Vimes
Sam Vimes
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

WITCHCRAFT!!!

Achilles
Achilles
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

Well Sweden didn’t. It just takes a bit of intelligence and fortitude. That’s the least I expect from a leader. It also means having the guts to be unpopular for a while and weathering a storm.

Not saying it’s easy but there was a choice and there still are choices and he continues to make the wrong ones.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

How much of the rest of the world followed our lead, especially Commonwealth?

Jonathan Palmer
Jonathan Palmer
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

The whole world didn’t lock down.Japan Sweden.The world bank offered Belarus money to lockdown but they refused it.

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

Hardly alone. Just in a minority.

I am very much concentrating on the present – we’d be better off without them – they should apologise publicly then p*** off.

As regards helping them, I think they know very well it was a hysterical overreaction, and far from being hapless victims of public hysteria they deliberately helped whip up that hysteria AND CONTINUE TO DO SO AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY.

I just don’t buy the line that they are trying to get out of this.

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Julian

It’s the continuous doubling-down and digging that hole ever deeper that is the most disappointing aspect of this. If they’d come back on 14th April to say that they’d achieved what they set out to do with the lockdown, then I could have accepted they meant what they said.

But they didn’t, they doubled-down.

They lied.

Rick H
Rick H
6 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Agreed. What is totally inexcusable is the now, when it is clear that there is no epidemic of this relatively mild virus, and no sign of that fiction – a ‘second wave’. Everything is being sustained by stories about statistically insignificant ‘cases’ that ate based on a highly questionable test.

Arse-covering is the kindest interpretation.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  Julian

“The PM & co must shoulder most of the responsibility for this. They sought high office, and came up short. That’s how it works.“

Exactly so. Never forget. Never forgive.

But after that is established and accepted, then there is plenty more blame to go around. This has been a self-inflicted disaster on an almost unprecedented scale. You could argue that only the decision to enter WW1 compares in terms of sheer gratuitousness combined with scale of consequences. And like WW1, there’s a case to be made that it highlights the failure of an entire national elite. WW1 resulted in their being swept out of power wholesale. Difficult to see how that can be achieved in this case, though.

At the time of WW1 there was the socialist movement waiting in the wings, and they basically did the job. [I don’t say that was necessarily a good thing overall, I merely observe that it happened.] I see no similar movement waiting in the wings now.

Which leaves us with a discredited, incompetent and soon to be wholly discredited establishment and a looming economic and social disaster. Not a good situation.

matt
matt
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

There’s discussion down below somewhere of the increasing number of credible voices who are saying that the virus was engineered. Someone (sorry – forget who) suggested that, if this was known at the time it might explain the panic reaction we have seen around the world.

Initially I thought that made sense, but now I don’t think I do. The key point is those couple of weeks when the decision went from “social distancing, wash your hands, herd immunity” to “everybody gets locked up now!” If the government and SAGE thought they were potentially dealing with a lethal bio weapon, herd immunity would never have been considered as an option.

The SAGE minutes seem to me to place the blame squarely at Johnson’s door (with a helping left over for Ferguson). I find it hard to see anything compelling to persuade me that it was anything other than a half-informed panic reaction to a terrifying (fictional) potential death toll and media pressure to lock down.

Johnson suffered a failure of courage in the face of enemy fire. Johnson didn’t have the gumption to stick to his guns on herd immunity, realizing that he would be blamed if… Read more »

WhyNow
WhyNow
6 years ago
Reply to  matt

And France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany? All locked down because of Johnson’s lack of courage? It’s just not realistic. Much as we’d like someone to blame.

The fact is, we have found that governments across the world have overreacted to hysterical media and health professionals.

matt
matt
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

Domino effect. China did it and the WHO said that was great and exactly the right response. The media narrative _everywhere_ became that it was the right thing to do. That’s why Conte did it. This strengthened the panic in Mass and Social Media and pressured subsequent governments in turn. It’s not just a failure on Johnson’s part but, I think, a sign of the failure of western civilization. We’ve allowed our cultures and our institutions to become tired and venal.

Jonathan Palmer
Jonathan Palmer
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

We followed all those countries into lockdown.
Covid was downgraded as a very serious disease in March.
The government knew the truth before lockdown.
It was a politcal decision not scientific.

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

I don’t think “everyone else was doing it” is a credible defence for the leader of a sovereign nation with an 80-seat majority and no looming election, politically or morally.

There are many to blame, but the political leaders of my country are top of my list, with regard to this country.

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

That doesn’t mean we had to be one of them.

Basics
Basics
6 years ago
Reply to  matt

I agree. It has been playschool throughout – no way to protect people from a deadly bio weapon. This is not how things are done under Bio Weapons. You don’t decree masks two weeks on Wednesday four months after the peak.

The same playschool we saw happen around the Skripal affair. Police at the edge of the cordon in normal uniform, PHE England telling the public to use baby wipes if needing to clean Novichock off skin and to double bag Novichock clothing then take to a laundrette for cleaning!

Also, corona/Covid19 was found in Spain (Barca?) in April 2019, elsewhere to if I remember correctly.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I still remember 1960’s public information films in the cinema telling us to hide under the kitchen table in the event of a nuclear attack, usually got laughed at since we knew that wouldn’t do us any good.

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

A good place to be to kiss your arse goodbye though :o))

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  matt

Medics definitely knew something was on it’s way a good two months before it arrived, not from DoH more likely international jungle drums on Doctor chat rooms.

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  matt

When I first heard that half million number of projected deaths I nearly died laughing. It was so utterly preposterous that I knew immediately it was a lie. Not a mistake, or a miscalculation, but a lie.

They were lying then, they are still lying now.

Jonathan Palmer
Jonathan Palmer
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

It was the government that instituted the lockdown despite the scientific advice.The sage minutes show that they were content to see the results of the social distancing measures,that had been introduced.
Lockdown was a political act.

WhyNow
WhyNow
6 years ago
Reply to  Gillian

We seem to make a habit of this type of blame. The government is a total of 120 ministers, nominally in charge of public services. When things don’t go the way we want, we sack the 120 and get a different 120. Meanwhile, the public services carry on much as before, unelected and unaccountable.

Do you think the public health professionals and the BBC will be held accountable for the hysterical overreaction to a mild virus? No, I don’t either.

Julian
Julian
6 years ago
Reply to  WhyNow

“Do you think the public health professionals and the BBC will be held accountable for the hysterical overreaction to a mild virus? No, I don’t either.”

They should be. But the buck stops with the PM. Otherwise what’s the point of leaders? They are usually a disappointment, and we are all weak humans. But they sinned. It wasn’t and isn’t just a mistake. Even if you take the “following other countries” defence, you could choose to follow countries that appear now to be more pragmatic e.g. Italy.

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Or who have now ended their lockdown, eg Norway

Barney McGrew
Barney McGrew
6 years ago
Reply to  Gillian

The amazing thing is that Boris and his henchmen are doing this sh*t to their own children and loved ones. Sure, they’ll not be troubled by extremes of unemployment, starvation, lack of medical care and so on, but nevertheless their lives are being ruined just like ours. As many of us have begun to realise, even a comfortable home can still be a prison if you can’t leave the house without encountering conflict and tyranny.

It’s the petty officials zealously doing the politicians’ bidding who are going to suffer most. They and their families are not in the same, privileged category as Boris and his many children. They won’t be able to get top notch dental treatment in a private, discreet clinic but will end up having their teeth pulled out alongside everyone else. They are doing this to themselves.

Teeth won’t matter soon, anyway. To keep everyone safe, liquid food will have to be consumed by straw through a small, safe, hole in the mask.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
6 years ago
Reply to  Gillian

Great comment. Should be circulated more widely!

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago

Vernon Coleman got cancelled off my YouTube feed and for the first time since lockdown he has not posted a new vid for three days.
Next to be cancelled outright.

Gillian
Gillian
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

He said last week that he is only posting new videos Sundays and Wednesdays.

karenovirus
karenovirus
6 years ago
Reply to  Gillian

Thank you, Gillian, missed that.

SuzyV
SuzyV
6 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

You can find him elsewhere. e.g.Rhodium Channels | Brand New Tube
But he hasn’t posted for a few days you are right.

Thank you for reading. Please help us keep the Daily Sceptic going by becoming a donor.