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The Times today leads with the story that the Government is planning to quarantine all travellers coming to Britain for two weeks. Under the new measures, likely to come into force in early June, travellers will be asked to provide an address at which they’ll self-isolate for 14 days, with spot checks and fines of up to £1,000 for those who don’t comply.

Needless to say, the aviation industry isn’t happy abut this and nor is the travel industry. Airlines UK, which represents British Airways, EasyJet and others, says the proposal will “effectively kill international travel to and from the UK, and cause immeasurable damage to the aviation industry and wider UK economy”. It added: “Nobody is going to go on holiday if they’re not able to resume normal life for 14 days, and business travel would be severely restricted.”

Isn’t this a case of closing the barn door after the horse has bolted? According to Sir Patrick Vallance, Chief Scientific Advisor to the UK Government, 6.6 million Brits might already be infected. Screening arrivals into British airports and ports, and quarantining those with a temperature, would have made much more sense back in January. Similar policies were adopted in those Southeast Asian countries that are the success stories of this pandemic, such as Thailand, which introduced airport temperature screenings on January 3rd. Had Britain followed suit back then, it might have nipped the problem in the bud.

But we should hesitate before blaming the Government for this oversight. The Department of Health and Social Care asked the Newly Emerging Respiratory Virus Advisory Group (NERVTAG) to hold a meeting to consider the need for port-of entry screening in January and one was duly convened on January 13th chaired by Peter Horby, an Oxford professor with links to the World Health Organisation. At that point, seven other countries had introduced temperature screening at airports for visitors from Wuhan, the centre of the viral outbreak in Hubei. The NERVTAG recommendation was that there would be no point in doing this if exit screening at Wuhan airports was already taking place, although they had no evidence it was.

At the next NERVTAG meeting on January 21st, this one attended by Chris Witty, the Chief Medical Officer of Engalnd, and his deputy Jonathan Van-Tam, the boffins were asked to reconsider the question, but again they passed the buck to the Chinese authorities. By now, human-to-human transmission had been confirmed, i.e. China’s attempt to cover-up the outbreak had been exposed and greater doubt should have been cast on any information coming out of the Communist dictatorship. Nonetheless, NERVTAG’s response was the same:

Neil Ferguson noted that from the modelling perspective, with exit screening in place in China, effectiveness of port-of-entry screening in the UK would be low and potentially only detect those who were not sick before boarding but became sick during the flight. NERVTAG felt there was a lack of clarity on the exit screening process in Wuhan, although it was thought that this process would be robust, and statements had been released by Chinese authorities about stopping febrile passengers from travelling. However, as noted, there were no data on the implementation of this programme.

Minutes of the NERVTAG Wuhan Novel Coronavirus Second Meeting: January 21st 2020

A lack of clarity on the exit screening process in Wuhan?!? You can say that again. As I’ve flagged up before, the Chinese authorities cut off travel from Hubei to the rest of China on January 23rd, two days after this NERVTAG meeting, but not from Hubei to the rest of the world, including the UK. If the exit screening process in Wuhan was as “robust” as the boffins thought – if the Chinese authorities really were “stopping febrile passengers from travelling” – why was the process not good enough to prevent infection spreading to the rest of the country?

I’m basing all this on the minutes of the NERVTAG meetings which are available online here. (Hat tip to a reader who flagged them up and went through them for me.) Could some BBC journalists start looking into this as well please? Like Deborah Cohen, who put together a great package for Newsnight on Thursday? I have no doubt the NERVTAG recommendations will be scrutinised very carefully by the inevitable public inquiry.

Another focus of that inquiry will be the code that sat beneath the model developed by Professor Ferguson and his team at Imperial College. The pseudonymous author of the article I published about the code that attracted so much attention earlier this week has written a follow-up that I’ve published today. The reason he’s revisited the subject is because an enterprising coder realised they could unexpectedly recover parts of the original code’s deleted history from GitHub, meaning we now have an audit log of changes dating back to April 1st. It still isn’t exactly the original code Ferguson ran, but it’s significantly closer. The author, who worked for eight year as a senior engineer at Google, is no more impressed than he was by the more distant version of the code. Read the new piece here.

The Oxford Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM), a great source of data about COVID-19, has published a graph plotting the rise and fall of deaths from the virus. This shows the numbers who have died in English hospitals and tested positive for the disease at the time of death up to May 7th:

Note that deaths peaked on April 8th, less than three weeks after the lockdown was imposed on March 23rd. Professor Carl Heneghan, the director of the CEBM, has repeatedly made this point. As he says, it suggests the social distancing measures recommended by the Government on March 16th were more than adequate to suppress infections without the need for more draconian measures.

My colleague Jonathan Kay made a similar point in an article for Quillette yesterday using metadata available from Moovit, an Israeli-based transit-app that maps transport use in dozens of cities around the world. Kay has crunched the numbers for four cities – Seattle, New York City, Miami, and Stockholm – and concluded that people stopped using mass transit at the same time, regardless of whether the city went into lockdown or not. He writes: “Much of the lockdown effect was imposed not by top-down fiat, but through millions of small decisions made every day by civic groups, employers, unions, trade associations, school boards and, most importantly, ordinary people.”

Kay’s conclusion is that sceptics have over-stated the negative effect of lockdowns on economic activity – it would have fallen off a cliff anyway – and says the zealots v sceptics debate is “phoney”. But as I pointed out to Kay, the sceptical case isn’t just that the impact of lockdowns will be economically disastrous – and he doesn’t address the argument that the economic damage will be worse in those countries that locked down. The restrictions have also been disastrous for public health. To give just one example, Professor Karol Sikora, an NHS consultant oncologist, believes there could be 50,000 excess deaths from cancer as a result of routine screenings being suspended during the lockdown in the UK.

Defenders of the status quo will point out that we won’t know for sure whether the lockdowns caused a net loss of life for some time, and the debate will probably go on for years. For instance, we won’t know for decades whether the economic impact of the lockdowns has had a negative effect on mortality, assuming we can disentangle it from the impact of the pandemic (the problem Kay flags up). But the uncertainty surrounding this doesn’t mean governments around the world were right to place their citizens under virtual house arrest. As a classical liberal, I accept that in some circumstances the state is justified in suspending people’s rights if it can show that doing so will save lives – during wartime, for instance. But the burden of proof always falls on those seeking to take away our rights and the case for lockdowns hasn’t even been proved on the balance of probabilities, let alone beyond reasonable doubt.

It’s worth remembering that beneath the statistics about the people likely to die from missing hospital appointments during the lockdown lie thousands of individual human stories. Here’s one a reader sent me today:

I have/had prostate cancer and am meant to have regular blood tests. Told by my local surgery not to go to be tested until lockdown is over! Six weeks overdue I went last week anyway, having cleared it with the hospital who said I should come. Normally there is a very lengthy queue. I walked in to find three nurses and me. What must be going undiagnosed is horrifying.

I’ve referred to Simon Dolan’s legal challenge to the lockdown several times on this site, but there is at least one other challenge, this one being mounted by the English Democrats. The co-chair of the English Democrats, Robin Tilbrook, is also the solicitor acting for it in this matter and you can read the Government’s response to his pre-action letter, as well as Tilbrook’s response to that response, here. And if you feel like donating to support that lawsuit, you can do so here.

In case you need reminding of how draconian the lockdown is, the Manifesto Club has compiled a photographic record of public parks and beauty spots in Britain that have been closed by the authorities since March 24th, as well as first-person accounts by people who’ve been harassed by the police at these locations. Read it and weep.

A log in Victoria Park, London

How much longer can these restrictions on free movement be maintained? I went for a walk along the Thames yesterday and was pleased to see plenty of people ignoring the lockdown: couples walking arm-in-arm on Putney Bridge, children playing football in Fulham Palace, groups of friends drinking either side of Hammersmith Bridge. Several readers have reported similar “green shoots” in their neck of the woods – or, as one put it, “the sand slipping off the side of a sandcastle as the tide comes in”. Here’s a report I received from a reader in the Midlands:

Interesting afternoon here in my village on VE day, in a part of the nation where there never hasn’t been a Conservative MP. Various conversations and interactions. Not one, and I do mean not one, person we talked to is in favour of the lockdown carrying on as it has been. These include people working for the NHS. One is a GP practice manager. Her daughter is a doctor in A&E nearby who reports there are no evening drunks coming in but instead they have an elevation in overdose cases. Another is a manager of a gynaecological unit in an East Midlands town – she reports there has been a small but detectable rise in stillbirths since lockdown began.

Of course, there are some benefits to the lockdown, as the writer Harriet Sergeant reminds us on Twitter: “My local heroin dealer has decided lockdown is over. He’s back on the bench outside my house. Customers come and go. But now I know how to get a police response – report him for social distancing.”

And it isn’t just the British police who are zealously enforcing the rules. Police officers in Laredo, Texas are straining every sinew to keep the city’s residents safe. The city’s Covid-19 Taskforce Enforcement arrested Ana Isabel Castro-Garcia and Brenda Stephany Mata and charged them with violation of emergency management plans after they caught them running underground nail-and-eyebrow salons at their homes. With heroic disregard for their own safety, officers disguised themselves as regular customers and scheduled appointments for nail and eyelash services and then took the dangerous criminals in to custody. KGNS News has the story.

In Singapore, by contrast, there’s no need for police officers to enforce social distancing rules – robots are more than capable of doing the job. Take a look at this YouTube video of a four-legged robot patrolling Bishan-Ang Mo Kio Park. (The Straits Times has more.) At present, all the robodog does is broadcast social distancing propaganda and take photographs of people breaking the rules. But how long before it’s equipped with more persuasive tools? I’m reminded of this scene in RoboCop in which the pampered executives of Omni Consumer Products are introduced to ED-209, the latest enforcement droid. Warning: contains scenes some readers may find distressing.

“Return to your home immediately. You have 30 seconds to comply.”

Meanwhile, back in Blighty, police are searching the social media profiles of those who dare to criticise their Gestapo-like behaviour. I was contacted by a reader who has been very critical of police over-reach on Twitter. He saw a Tweet from another sceptic complaining the police had checked his profile on LinkedIn and thought, “That can’t possibly be true. Surely, they’ve got more urgent maters to attend to?” He then checked his own LinkedIn profile and found this:

Someone who must be in the police’s cross-hairs by now is Dr John Lee, a former consultant pathologist for the NHS. He has compiled a list of 10 reasons to end the lockdown for the Spectator. Dr Lee, a retired professor of pathology, was one of the first senior medics to question the wisdom of locking up the entire country. His 10 reasons are:

  1. You cannot understand the significance of this virus simply by looking at the raw death figures
  2. The policy response to the virus has been driven by modelling of Covid – not other factors
  3. We don’t know if lockdown is working
  4. We should ease the lockdown to save lives
  5. Lockdown is not sustainable
  6. Lockdown directly harms those most likely to be affected by coronavirus
  7. Lockdown directly harms those who will be largely unaffected by coronavirus
  8. The health service has not been overwhelmed nor likely to be
  9. The virus is almost certainly not a constant threat
  10. People can be trusted to behave sensibly

Dr Lee also has an article in today’s Mail making the same argument and it’s worth reminding ourselves that his views are by no means uncommon in the medical establishment. I was pleased to see this letter from a biology professor in today’s Telegraph:

SIR – Science proceeds by putting forward conjectures or hypotheses, collecting empirical data to test them, and accepting, rejecting or modifying them on that basis. The implication is that our scientific understanding is not fixed, but changes as evidence accumulates.

In the United Kingdom the initial decision to impose lockdown to control the effects of COVID-19 was based on a conjecture or model that has now been tested against real data and is found to be wanting.

The model predicts that, under the sustainable public health measures taken by Sweden and in the absence of lockdown, there should now be 60,000 deaths in that country from Covid-19, whereas there are currently only about 3,000 there, with deaths now well past the peak and declining.

Given the failure of the model to make useful predictions, there is no justification for using it to guide future policy. In contrast, large amounts of empirical evidence have now been gathered which demonstrate that for a very large fraction of the population the virus poses a very low risk, while a small fraction – whose immune systems are compromised – are vulnerable.

Therefore, to follow the science, an appropriate policy is the targeted shielding of those who choose to be classified as vulnerable, rigorous screening of their carers to prevent transfer of infection to the vulnerable sector, and release from lockdown for those outside these categories.

Continuing the blanket lockdown cannot be justified on the basis that it is “following the science”.

Professor Richard Ennos, Edinburgh

I have written a comment piece in today’s Telegraph asking what happened to our famous stiff upper lip. Forget about the bulldog spirit. We seem to have become a nation of scaredy-cats. Readers of this site will already be familiar with my views about the supine acquiescence of the British people to having their rights curtailed, but here’s a quote in case you need reminding:

How did it come to this? We’re supposed to be a nation of indomitable yeoman who guard our ancient liberties more fiercely than any other people on earth. These islands, which haven’t been invaded since 1066, are the birthplace of liberal democracy.

Yesterday, we celebrated the 75th anniversary of the day the Allies formally accepted the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany after more than 350,000 British soldiers gave their lives to protect this country from tyranny. Yet when the Government enacted a statutory instrument on March 26th that suspended the rights of every freeborn Englishman, some of them dating back to the 12th Century, we didn’t let out so much as a squeak of protest. Probably just as well because protests of more than 100 people are now illegal.

I got a great response from a reader – of the Telegraph, not Lockdown Sceptics, although I suspect she would like this site too. Here are the first three paragraphs:

I have never in my life written to a columnist to berate or applaud something they have written. But after over six weeks of pointless and frustrating lockdown, and an inability to read anything on social media or newspapers for fear of punching a tree, I read your article today in the Telegraph.

Thank you. For voicing everything I want to but don’t have a platform to. We are small business owners who have had no financial help and expect none, and are struggling like everyone else. We have young kids who are being damaged by this prison they live in, and struggling with maintaining the hope that they feel is being snatched from them, despite our protestations. We are all caged in our homes, and my strong belief in liberty is now seen as a badge of defiance and shame. I resent being told what to do by anybody, generally, but I will always respect authority and knowledge. I voted for Boris and Brexit in that belief. But now I do feel that my respect for that authority waning, as the world becomes infantilised and patronising. I can’t take my dog for more than one walk a day or sit on a fallen tree to take in the view without people feeling they have to point and tut. I despair of the example this all sets for the new generation that fear everything, and take pride in nothing except their own social media profiles; who have fallen blindly behind ‘science’ in the form of a randy, fear-spreading, and inept epidemiologist professor.

I idolise the Queen, but she was wrong – I think my wildly brave grandfather and those of his generation would be turning in their graves at the lily-livered modern Britishness, and despair or those neighbours who curtain twitch as I leave the house. I love the NHS, having worked in it for most of my life, but I detest the clapping when I recall that I had no respect shown to me by most people (who are now clapping) when I turned up as a paramedic to treat them. And does the NHS deserve all of this? Well, yes, those in Covid wards do of course. But, my God, there are plenty of complete idiots in the health service who are now relishing their deification, despite never earning it. And many are actually not even working at all, as we have scared the life out of everyone to go to hospital or the GP. I see selfish and self-absorbed self importance all about, and I truly don’t know how I explain this period of history to my children without embarrassment at how my nation has behaved. Suddenly the BBC treats the part-time bin men and supermarket workers as “heroes” and worth more than my young kids – we need only to hear the BBC news that speeding drivers at the moment “may even kill a key worker going to their vital work” to see this view. And why does everyone want now to identify as a key worker? Please…..

Victor David Hanson, writing in the National Review, argues that the divide between lockdown sceptics and zealots reflects the ancient conflict between empiricism and abstraction — between common sense and abstract science. He may be on to something, as this story in the Telegraph about front-line doctors in New York illustrates. State governor Andrew Cuomo favours a phased exit from the lockdown, with life not returning to normal for months, whereas the doctors fighting the disease think the battle has been won, and the fact that the state’s hospitals are now half-empty means people who need urgent medical treatment aren’t getting it. “It’s not often I agree with Trump, but I think that we should open up on May 15,” says Dr Samir Farhat, who runs the emergency room at New York Community Hospital as well as working as a physician at Mount Sinai Brooklyn.

In UnHerd, Douglas Murray highlights the idiocy of those trying to censor what people are and aren’t allowed to say about the virus on social media. Includes an absolute gem from the website of the Institute for Strategy Dialogue (ISD) which describes the hypothesis that SARS-CoV-2 originated in the Wuhan Institute of Virology, as opposed to the Wuhan wet market, as a “right-wing conspiracy theory”, claiming “there is absolutely no scientific evidence that the genome is man-made”. Evidently, the ISD missed this podcast with Dr Luc Montagnier, winner of the 2008 Nobel Prize for Medicine, who concludes the virus could not have evolved naturally and must have been created in a laboratory. As Murray points out, this supposedly crackpot theory is being investigated by a consortium of Western intelligence agencies, as was revealed in the leaked “five eyes” document. (Proud to say Douglas Murray is a director of the Free Speech Union.)

The P4 laboratory at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in Wuhan in China’s central Hubei province. Picture: Hector Retamal/AFP

A round-up of all the stories I’ve noticed, or which have been been brought to my attention, in the last 24 hours:

Thanks as always to those who made a donation in the last 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of the site. If you feel like donating, you can do so by clicking here. (Every little helps!) And if you want to flag up any stories or links I should include in tomorrow’s update, you can email me here.

No songs today, but I’ll leave you with a quote from my piece in today’s Telegraph:

Let’s hope Boris screws his courage to the sticking place tomorrow and announces an end to this authoritarian nightmare. This is a country in which every man’s home is supposed to be his castle, not his prison.

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402 Comments
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ChrisH29
ChrisH29
6 years ago

I note a headline in the Spectator today in its Covid-19 Update that:
“Antibody tests suggest that 10% of London and 4% of the UK have antibodies for Covid-19 as of 5 weeks ago.” Coincidentally the peak of virus in the UK.
This is interesting and if correct, more data showing the absurdity of Lockdown.

Let’s assume a population in UK of 66 million. If, as the Govt claim Ro is 0.8 then by today at least half of the population is now immune. Yes, I know that is less than the implied number but there would inevitably be a decay in the spread profile as the number recipients declined.

For London, by today more the whole population would have been immune by last week.

If these numbers are even in the same ball park as reality then this virus has gone exactly the way of all previous ones and been extinguished in the same time scale, much as predicted by Prof. Isaac Ben-Israel in early April.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-end-of-exponential-growth-the-decline-in-the-spread-of-coronavirus/

ianp
ianp
6 years ago

Alright… I am getting this a bit more properly now. With the new ‘advice’. I see this or at least most of it.

Feeling a bit better have to admit. More optimistic.

I feel the government and Boris have played an absolute blinder in the grand scheme of things considering the unbelievable amount of pressure he has been under from the media and other governments.

I know this is probably against what I have previously posted. Project FEAR has of course been a deliberate strategy from the start when he realised that the sensible strategy of normal herd immunity was shouted down by the press. But, and trust me on this, I feel that the UK has been put on a short sharp super high death curve from the beginning to achieve the goal of herd immunity. Probably as a plan B.

Project FEAR was always twofold – you have the sheep who were always going to be fearful of the virus , those who never were fearful (us). But then part 2 was to make the likes of us FEAR the dystopian future presented. I was taken in by the ‘new normal’ and police state horror so was determined… Read more »

Nigel Baldwin
Nigel Baldwin
6 years ago
Reply to  ianp

Watching videos of police behaviour today has made me anything but optimistic.

ianp
ianp
6 years ago
Reply to  Nigel Baldwin

Dying embers… Don’t worry

JohnB
JohnB
6 years ago
Reply to  ianp

And only the Met. They’ve always been somewhat challenged.

Barney McGrew
Barney McGrew
6 years ago
Reply to  ianp

Why are you so optimistic? I couldn’t stand to watch it but from what I heard this was just a sketch of a map towards the first glimmer of a hint of the light at end of the tunnel or some such, plus increased fines for people who break ‘lockdown rules’. He still sounds like someone who doesn’t care about the cost, the suicides, the unprecedented loss of civil liberties – or not enough to overcome his love for international joke Neil Ferguson at any rate. He doesn’t sound like someone who would physically eat his ID card “in the presence of whatever emanation of the state demanded he produce it”.

ianp
ianp
6 years ago
Reply to  Barney McGrew

Actually look at the ‘rules’ though… It effectively only bans gatherings of people around the street doesn’t it? Got to drive to work? Go ahead. At somebody’s door? The only person you are visiting today officer.. and unless there are still snitches around, then go in pretty much! I don’t think he could have told the bedwetters to just get up and on with it given how he’s been backed into a corner. Their brainwashing will take a while to undo.

He wanted Sweden’s herd immunity model didn’t he? I don’t think he was pretending on that was he? Until media backlash. UK lockdown was by far the loosest we could have wasn’t it. The aim of the game is always the herd.

The narrative will change and some proper facts will suddenly start to appear, you watch.

And also… No masks. Striking how different that’s been in UK compared to Europe right? Masks simply means either subservience or fear, cos they don’t provide any meaningful medical benefit

Barney McGrew
Barney McGrew
6 years ago
Reply to  ianp

I hope you’re right!

APB
APB
6 years ago

I’ve been pondering an interesting theme which I have yet to see pursued in the media, but many of those changes which we small ‘c ‘ conservatives have instinctively suspected to be foolhardy over the last 30 years are now revealed to have been grounded in acquired common sense all along: whither hot desking, open plan offices, open national borders, global supply chains, just in time logistics, hermetically sealed office blocks? There will be many more examples. Or am I simply revealing my age and confirmation biases?

coalencanth12
coalencanth12
6 years ago

The main thing giving me hope at the minute – it seems the Tory party has woken up a bit and the general narkiness level is rising, even amongst cabinet depending on your favoured news outlet. No doubt the penny has finally dropped that a country heavily reliant on service industries and being internationally open is going to take quite a hit under long-term ‘social distancing’. I have no doubt the quarantine policy is nothing to do with any science – it’s probably a Cummings inspired ‘dog whistle’ to some of the loonier fringes of the right.

Last nights presser was atrocious – who on earth thinks putting characters like Shapps in a time of national crisis, to tell us all to get on our bikes, is a good idea? Trains and buses at 10% capacity, have I entered some parallel universe of talking rot?? This gets to the heart of the cowardice and disgrace of lockdown – many essential workers have been crowding onto tube trains during this crisis to keep the Champaign socialist lockdown lovers of the upper middle classes in their favoured lifestyle.

On my ‘exercise’ yesterday I encountered several work colleagues. The tone of these conversations… Read more »

AnotherSceptic
AnotherSceptic
6 years ago

I got told by my work (Manufacturing sector, But classed as non essential) on the 24th of March to go home, & at the time, it was said to be for 3 weeks. I
Was then furloughed on 30th of March.
At first I thought fair enough, I didn’t know then what I know now about this extremely exaggerated virus.
My work keeps us all updated by email every couple of weeks & it has been grim.
My work lost 80% of its income that first week of lockdown, due to the companies that it supplies shutting down because of this.

The emails have been stating that it’s a very tough time for businesses including the company I work for.
However, on Thursday, I received another email from my work & this one doesn’t read well,

It mentioned some of its customers are returning to work but on a very very limited staff basis & then they said this,
“It seems likely that we will not return to normal levels overall for a significant period”

Now, I am genuinely a-bit worried about that statement, & I feel that the longer this goes on, I doubt that I will have a… Read more »

Steve
Steve
6 years ago
Reply to  AnotherSceptic

I’m sure there are many many others in the same boat, including my wife and son who have no idea if they will still have a job in a month or two. They can’t just pause the economy for weeks and then expect it to magically restart without massive damage.
What an utter shambles. The Conservatives are about to lose their reputation for being (relatively) competent handling the economy.

Back To Normal
Back To Normal
6 years ago

Well, so far, I haven’t posted any humour on this site, but as I look forward to watching Boris this evening I think I might change that habit.

I will start by stating the obvious – if this lockdown nonsense was not so serious, it would all be very funny.

My plan for this evening is to start with a few drinks to loosen up prior to the main event. I can’t wait to hear Boris tell the British public how good they have all been. By locking themselves up at home, the public will have saved the nation from a “certain” catastrophe. At this point, he will obviously not be talking about those 30 people I saw queuing outside B&Q the other day (oops, I was one of them). Anyhow, the government will laud the lockdown as a huge success. Boris will avoid the obvious pitfalls of stating how much money they have added to our national debt or any of the other grim realities of the lockdown. I’m not sure if there will be a Q & A session at the end but if there is, I hope those clever journalists get to grill Boris on where he… Read more »

A Meshiea
A Meshiea
6 years ago
Reply to  Back To Normal

You could turn it into a drinking game. Each player chooses a word likely to be repeated by HRH and assigns it to someone else. Each time it’s stated he or she drinks. Object is to get your friends hammered to take care of the inevitable headache and emotional outrage caused by further lockdown.
Sample words/phrases:
“Clear”
“Our NHS”
“Fantastic job”
“Tragedy/Tragic”
“Safe”
“social distancing “
“Follow the guidelines”
Bonus everyone drinks: “defeat this virus”

A Meshiea
A Meshiea
6 years ago

This pretty hard to watch, but if you thought the police behaviour was light touch….
https://youtu.be/bmOl78FNmXo

Farinances
Farinances
6 years ago
Reply to  A Meshiea

Sending to Policing the Corona State and Police Abusing Powers. Wow.

Gossamer
Gossamer
6 years ago
Reply to  A Meshiea

Not sure if anyone else has posted this here, but it’s worth a look:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tfWOUgHSq24&feature=youtu.be

Geraint
Geraint
6 years ago
Reply to  A Meshiea

What an absolute disgrace. ….This is the result of the power grab by the state and enforcement by its uniformed handmaidens. Must be resisted strongly.

Adele Bull
Adele Bull
6 years ago

https://www.facebook.com/dhushykumar/videos/10219981748706813/
Recent post from a Dr at our local hospital.

Nigel Baldwin
Nigel Baldwin
6 years ago
Reply to  Adele Bull

Am I reading this right? He seems to be saying that lockdown is a good thing as everyone is now going out in the sunshine and infecting everyone else. Am I missing some very subtle satire? I’m searching the name for a pun but don’y get anything.

Adele Bull
Adele Bull
6 years ago
Reply to  Nigel Baldwin

He is normally very sensible. He seems worried that the bell has come down too soon and we will therefore see more deaths after lockdown but that the NHS is in a better place to deal with them. His posts on FB are interesting.

Nigel Baldwin
Nigel Baldwin
6 years ago
Reply to  Adele Bull

Yeah, but I thought the point was the open air was the least likely conduit for spreading a virus and more likely to spread in confined spaces. Also the bell curve is virtually identical to everywhere else. And surely the reason there have more infections is because there has been more testing.

Pebbles
Pebbles
6 years ago
Reply to  Adele Bull

I am not understanding his mumbling at all. Is he being sarcastic or serious? Is he voicing concern we are ending lockdown too soon? What is his way forward then? And isn’t there a big hoohah about Vit D (sunshine!) being very useful…? And has anyone quizzed him just which coronaviruses out of the many we carry the tests are picking up? Indeed cases of Covid-19 or sth from the big flu/coronavirus family? Are people actually being tested or just admitted due to potential Covid-19 symptoms such as coughing and a bit of a fever? At what point did the tests become 100% reliable when they haven’t been in weeks and months? Just curious…

karate56
karate56
6 years ago
Reply to  Adele Bull

Seems a little like he’s talking shite. If 18000 a day are getting it, and if the deadliness the government claims is true, he’d be seeing his ITU utterly swamped. He wouldn’t be supping a nice cuppa, he’d be crying his eyes out.
If 18000 is true, and he’s not seeing ITU’s swamped as he claims then the disease clearly isn’t very dangerous as suspected. If it’s airborne, we all be getting it whether we stayed in or not. Also, what do we need 4000 a day for? Bizarre as that’s not a cutoff for easing lockdowns.

BrianJR
BrianJR
6 years ago

Quotes of the day from Prof Spiegelhalter:
“this is not a trustworthy communication of statistics……
…they’re (the public) hungry for details, for facts, for genuine information and yet they get fed this, what I call, number theatre which seems to be co-ordinated much more by a No.10 communications team rather than genuinely trying to inform people about what’s going on. I just wish that the data was being brought together and presented by people who really knew its strengths and limitations, and could treat the audience with some respect.

I am so sparked by this – finally a position of influence speaks out against the machine. It should be re-broadcast before Boris attempts his Churchillian soliloquy this evening in an attempt to educate the fearful.

Kung Flu Lou
Kung Flu Lou
6 years ago

This site’s information has made it crystal clear to me that this ‘lockdown’ BS is a massive waste of time, money and lives/livelihoods. Thank you for creating it.

It’s now obvious that the Government has dug itself a deep hole and now sits paralysed at the bottom of it. For fear of losing votes on either side of the debate, it is choosing to do nothing.

Just like the decision to leave the EU, it is now down to us to end this madness:

Time to do what you want.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  Kung Flu Lou

There can be honest disagreement on the EU issue.

Not on this issue, I think. The fear-mongering side were simply wrong from the start, because they tried to present this disease as something it is not. They have argued from a position that this is some sort of fantasy “covebola” disease, that is as infectious as flu but as deadly to those who catch it as ebola.

And only now is some of the information coming out that would have had to be taken into account for any rational decision to lockdown to have been justified. You can’t have a rational policy decision if you don’t make an honest attempt at cost/benefit analysis, and you can’t have a rational analysis of that kind if one side is shrieking at the other that any attempt to do so is “dangerous”, “heartless” etc. Juvenile stuff, really, but that’s the dominant zeitgeist among our rather pathetic media, social and political elites.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1280164/uk-coronavirus-news-death-toll-latest-r-infection-rate-uk-economy-coronavirus-study

Mark
Mark
6 years ago

Coronavirus doctor’s diary: The strange case of the choir that coughed in January

“Jane Hall is a member of two choirs – the Voices of Yorkshire choir and the All Together Now Community Choir – and she says that Covid-like symptoms affected members of both, starting in early January.

Among the first singers to get ill was the partner of a man who returned from a business trip to Wuhan on 17 or 18 December and developed a hacking cough.

“My friend from the choir became ill mid-January. Then my best friend, Christine, became ill, and then I became ill in the first weekend of February,” Jane said.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52589449

More grist to the early onset arguments.

BrianJR
BrianJR
6 years ago

Check out Prof Spiegelhalter on BBC iPlayer on today’s Andrew Marr show. You will need to zip forward to 46m45s to get the start – am in dropped jaw mode to hear him point out on the BBC what we have all been calculating / saying for weeks…
Finally I have hope that the mood is turning.

Farinances
Farinances
6 years ago
Reply to  BrianJR

Could Tobys influential journalist reader be Andrew, I wonder?

Bella
Bella
6 years ago
Reply to  BrianJR

Really? I just read somewhere that Johnson is going to ‘advise’ people to wear masks if going into shops. That’s a step backwards and a bit late ffs

Nigel Baldwin
Nigel Baldwin
6 years ago
Reply to  BrianJR

What about Johnson going to ‘advise’ people to wear face masks in shops (I’ve just heard on the grapevine) ? That’s not the mood turning that’s going backwards. Does that mean they won’t let me in Tesco to buy bread unless I look like some deranged Frankenstein?

Victoria
Victoria
6 years ago
Reply to  Nigel Baldwin

Wearing masks could make you more susceptible to get sick

BecJT
BecJT
6 years ago

Two great pieces in the Telegraph today, one jointly penned by David Davis MP (I can’t believe I’ve started reading the Telegraph, but there we are!)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/10/coronavirus-risk-young-staggeringly-low-says-uks-top-statistician

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/10/chilling-truth-decision-impose-lockdown-based-crude-mathematical/

ianp
ianp
6 years ago

Hi … Just an update on a 50 mile drive down to South coast to see my sister. Not a police car in sight. At all.

What’s going on???

BrianJR
BrianJR
6 years ago
Reply to  ianp

They’re all busy linking our accounts, e-mail scanning and checking in on social media platforms to see what we’re all plotting.

Always hated plodders, and if it were possible to have negative respect I would have that now.
First in line for the revolution, even ahead of Rees-Mogg and his hedge-funded cronies.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago

“Puppy-buying motorist gets two fines in 10 minutes
Duncan Leatherdale
BBC News

A driver travelling from Edinburgh to Wigan to buy a puppy was given two fixed penalty notices in 10 minutes for beaching coronavirus lockdown rules.

Cumbria Police said they stopped the motorist at Junction 36 of the M6 near Kendal and issued him with a £60 notice and ordered him to head home.

But 10 minutes later “they ignored the instruction to return back home and was issued a second fine before being escorted back up north”, a force spokesman said.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-52534519

A heartwarming story of sensible and efficient use of policing resources to address a real menace to the well being of the honest citizenry who pay for all this. If that puppy had been taken back to Edinburgh, the consequences would surely have been mass slaughter.

Basically, all they’ve achieved is to waste their own time, make themselves look stupid and heavy handed, provide ammunition for future criticism of policing attitudes and efficiency, and make at least one probably otherwise perfectly decent and respectable ordinary citizen hate and despise them.

Well done, Cumbria Police. [slow hand clap]

BecJT
BecJT
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

There is a HUGE animal welfare crisis brewing too, people can’t keep and feed an litter of pups for ever, dogs homes going broke etc etc.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  BecJT

Yes, just another cost of this plague of fear, that will be quietly ignored by those pushing the fear and the panic lockdown response.

ianp
ianp
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

No… I hope they will be eviscerated forever. More and more people are waking up.

This could be a Boris master plan….fingers crossed !

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Can’t help thinking that Peter Hitchens is right (again) on this when he suggests this has all been a massive own goal by the police. As usual, it’s largely the fault of the government for making ridiculous laws that the police then have to try to enforce, but if they’d had any sense they’d have just given lip-service to enforcing these literally stupid laws. They’ve clearly jumped at the opportunity to parade around in para-military thug-style, bossing people around.

Fortunately this kind of violent response is pretty rare in Britain:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52599855

“But the Police Federation, which represents 98% of all officers, called for anyone accused of such attacks automatically to be held in custody before appearing in court. ”

Mind you, you would think that even the police union would have had the common sense and basic honesty not to make that kind of suggestion less than a month after one of their members was actually filmed threatening to “make something up. Who are they going to believe, me or you?”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-52338058

” Lancashire Police say they plan to apologise to a man after an officer was filmed threatening to “make something up” in order to arrest him.

The… Read more »

Tracy Jones
Tracy Jones
6 years ago

Can someone explain please, or direct me to the reasoning behind the 14 days quarantine for visitors or returning holiday makers. If the 14 days is applicable to travellers by air into the UK the logic must follow that all people including long distance lorry drivers travelling to and from Europe must quarantine for 14 days every time they bring goods in/out of the UK, I assume all airline staff once landed must quarantine for 14 days. Surely the same applies by anyone docking in a uk port on the container ships, etc. How will this be managed where are the ready supply of trained qualified hauliers, airline staff, merchant seaman who are sitting around twiddling their thumbs. Or is this 14 days rule just another excuse that the majority of brainwashed public will swallow to keep us in lockdown for longer. If the Government really means to put the quarantine regs in then it has to apply to everyone in every industry returning from every country regardless of the reason for travel.
They have to explain the logic, why are the media not challenging

Gossamer
Gossamer
6 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Jones

It’s yet another placebo. Stupid as they are, I think the government does realise that if they cancel all restrictions and encourage everything to get back to normal ASAP, there will be some very awkward questions to answer as soon as it becomes evident that we aren’t suddenly dying of Covid en masse. The public may start suspecting that the threat was overstated all along. By stringing things out over much of the year, the “cautious” approach will conceal the true extent of governmental incompetence. And the moral vacuum that is the PM will be lauded for his “careful” handling of the crisis.

It’s not a second wave that he fears – that is just a smokescreen.

JohnB
JohnB
6 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Jones

Excellent points, Tracy.

If the 14 days only applies to air travellers, I foresee many families going to the Med in large artics ! 🙂

Tracy Jones
Tracy Jones
6 years ago
Reply to  JohnB

Perhaps we have just come up with a new holiday scheme

BrianJR
BrianJR
6 years ago

Got to laugh at Boris wheeling out the 70’s graffiti gags – as a schoolboy the whole “Be alert, Britain needs Lerts” was everywhere.

Get ready for “Humpty Dumpty was pushed” and Oedipus, call your mother” gags in his speech tonight.

Simply pathetic.

Gossamer
Gossamer
6 years ago

Thank you to everyone who posts here. It is so important for us all to realise that we are not alone.
If this were a sci-fi tale, the situation would be one in which a brain virus has effectively lobotomised the world. A small number of people remain immune, with their minds intact, but are screaming into the void as the infected cannot hear them.
Another sci-fi scenario is one in which the fear has generated such momentum that it remains long after everyone has forgotten what the original threat was. In such a scenario, the measures taken to counter the threat have become ritualistic and deeply embedded into daily life. But while nobody remembers their purpose, neither does anyone question their necessity.
Speculative fiction analogies aside, the reality is enough of a horror story in itself.
Future historians are likely to look back on this episode with a sense of abhorrence and bewilderment. People’s lives, entire economies, and liberal democracy itself have been trashed: all based on a toxic mix of spectacularly bad science, a 24-hour media that does not have our best interests at heart, and mob hysteria.
This absurd, counterproductive and frankly homicidal response must never be… Read more »

Gossamer
Gossamer
6 years ago
Reply to  Gossamer

Apologies for the lack of clear paragraphing: I wrote it in my Word app and pasted it in, which sent the formatting awry…

Seamonster
Seamonster
6 years ago
Reply to  Gossamer

Totally agree. Mass hysteria, a joke of a media ( social media clearly also doesn’t help) and a government willing to kowtow to public opinion have all contributed.

BecJT
BecJT
6 years ago
Reply to  Gossamer

Yup, we have “herd immunity” haha.

T.Prince
6 years ago
Reply to  BecJT

Herd stupidity

Eumaeus
Eumaeus
6 years ago

A couple of days ago Mimi mentioned looking at a comparison of Case-Fatality Ratios for American “Red States” vs. “Blue States.”

I am neither a professional data-scientist, nor a statistician, nor a professional programmer, but I have put my amateurish stab at this comparison online, as Scala code in a Jupyter Notebook you can run. Please forgive the state of the code… this is my “while drinking morning coffee” work, so it is certainly not elegant, and it may be wrong. But you can see it, at least, unlike some computer code we might recall to mind.

https://mybinder.org/v2/gh/Eumaeus/covid-data/master?filepath=politics.ipynb

If you follow the link, “binder” might take a while to spin up a virtual machine, but after that you’ll see the Notebook. In its menu bar, choose Cell > Run All. It will churn through the code and generate some graphs. Scroll down until you see the graphs.

Some things to note. The Red/Blue divide is defined by the party of the state’s governor. I’ve manually flipped Massachusetts to “blue” and Arkansas to “red”. Also, by default, New York and New Jersey are excluded from the calculation, because they would overwhelm any finding. If you know what you are doing,… Read more »

Pebbles
Pebbles
6 years ago

As Gracie Knoll was having a hissy fit re doctors not speaking out… and the magical carrot stick of the vaccine. You might find the following interesting / terrifying / nauseating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUYZgIF6fVM&feature=youtu.be
Dr Sherry Tenpenny – so she has spoken out. An experimental mandatory mRNA vaccine coming our way. Who is listening…? Share share share before it disappears. Download and save for the future. And send it to NHS hospitals, the British Medical Associations and MAYBE British doctors will pull their heads out of the place where the sun doesn’t shine. Or maybe send it to the BBC, Deborah what’s her name, so maybe she can finally do a solid piece of investigative journalism on this. Doctors have got off their arses in the US, Germany, Austria, Italy and elsewhere, taking to You Tube and alt media to circumnavigate the massive censorship happening, except apparently… Britain. British medical doctors do not seem to have an opinion on this or they don’t give a remote f*u*c*k, in which case, no surprise we have the highest death rate in Europe if the political ineptitude mirrors the medical ineptitude in this country.

And most importantly…ask yourself… where, FOR YOU, is the red… Read more »

Victoria
Victoria
6 years ago
Reply to  Pebbles

There is a massive push for a vaccine. However, according to Dr Robin Futoran, viruses go through Mutation trying to survive the effects of the human immune system. Vaccines are often too late to be effective on the new version of a virus they created the vaccine for.

There is No Vaccine for SARS (a coronavirus). They’ve been working on it since 2003.

There is no Spanish Flu vaccine (since 1918) and the vaccine that was rush tested at that time, ended up causing 450 deaths and neurological damage to others. This was the beginning of people fearing vaccines.

There is no Vaccine for the Avian Flu, since 1997.

There is no Vaccine for the Hong Kong Flu, since 1968, considered to still be active each flu season though with “herd immunity.”

There is No Aids Vaccine. They’ve been working on that one since 1982.

The Flu Vaccine has Not Controlled the Seasonal Influenza Virus. Almost 50,000 people have died this flu season from Influenza in the US between October and Mid-February.

The Asian Flu in 1957/58 killed as many as 116,000 Americans.

Pebbles
Pebbles
6 years ago
Reply to  Victoria

That’s all correct. But none of the above events was accompanied by a global lockdown trying to ‘eradicate the virus’, make us forget about natural immunity, and impair our lives in a way so that many in the end might gladly take the experimental vaccine in order to be allowed to return to ‘normal life’… that’s what’s really scary. And since our lovely media isn’t exactly forthcoming on the dangers of experimental vaccines, how many people will be aware of what they are being injected with? If the US goes mandatory on this, be rest assured the UK will too, given we are negotiating a trade deal for Brexit in this very moment…

Farinances
Farinances
6 years ago
Reply to  Pebbles

The red line is the app. Won’t do it.
The red button is mandatory vaccination. I will be on the streets burming shit if necessary.

John Lilburne
John Lilburne
6 years ago
Reply to  Pebbles

If anyone cares to learn more about vaccines and their lack of safety testing (among many other problems), here is a long-form interview with Robert F. Kennedy. It is over 2 hours long but an excellent summary of where we stand at the moment. If they are going to force everyone to take a vaccine, you might as well understand the history. A few memorable takeaways for those who may be new to this topic:

– In 1985, due to side affects of their vaccines, pharmaceutical companies approached the American congress and asked for blanket immunity from lawsuits saying something like (I paraphrase) ‘for every $1 we make, we pay out $20 in damages’. A law was passed granting them this immunity, among other things. Suddenly, vaccine manufacturing became very profitable and we went from 3 vaccines given to children to 72 (with more in the works of course).

– Vaccines do not undergo the same safety testing that other drugs

– There are hundreds of studies linking the mercury in vaccines to autism and various other epidemics plaguing us today. Here is a helpful link to 240+ studies: https://childrenshealthdefense.org/known-culprits/mercury/mercury-facts/mercury-research/

Link to interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLi6ZrFp6vQ&feature=emb_title

Nigel Baldwin
Nigel Baldwin
6 years ago
Reply to  John Lilburne

Glad people are waking up the vaccine hazards. I usually get pummelled into pulp when I say I am suspicious of vaccines. I am not anti-vaccines per se, nor anti the theory (which ironically is almost homeopathic in principle) but anti blanket vaccination when the vaccines haven’t been demonstrated safe. Back before 1989 I think American kids had three vaccines as a matter of course, now it’s sixteen delivered in something like 72 jabs. Can’t remember the exact figures but I’ve seen that Kennedy interview and I was struck by the fact that when Kennedy was a child 1 in 10,000 kids were autistic, now it’s about 1 in 40. And the collateral damage doesn’t stop there: food allergies (peanuts anyone? Anyone hear of that before about 1980s?), asthma, epilepsy and other ailments increasing exponentially.

Pebbles
Pebbles
6 years ago
Reply to  Nigel Baldwin

Big Pharma has complete indemnity for any damage caused by vaccines (unless a lawsuit is rolled out), indemnity for a medical procedure that isn’t proven to be effective in the first place, and on the contrary can backfire on someone’s immunity system spectacularly. It’s a blank check for rampant abuse. The idea of a vaccine is noble, the reality is grisly. A Scottish doctor named Dr Malcolm Kendrick has been one of the few in this country brave enough to tackle the evidence and questions surrounding vaccines, he writes about it in his blog.

DocRC
DocRC
6 years ago
Reply to  Pebbles

Here is the good Doctor’s blog which contains some very interesting research on Vitamin D for example https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/

Nigel Baldwin
Nigel Baldwin
6 years ago
Reply to  Pebbles

And I don’t think there has ever been a study about long term damage to cell structure. Is there, for example, a link between vaccine enthusiasm in, say, the sixties to an increased incidence of cancer in older age.? Doubt it, would cost too much.

Oaks79
Oaks79
6 years ago

The reaction from the Government you would think this was the next Spanish flu. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that it is, no fit and healthy 20-40 year olds dropping dead in the streets etc in fact we’ve been told constantly by our own CMO Whitty that “the vast majority will get this mildly” and I’m sure he said some won’t even know they had it at all.
I’m literally questioning myself every other day asking if I’ve missed something and it is the “black death” hence why things won’t return to normal etc.

BecJT
BecJT
6 years ago
Reply to  Oaks79

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/10/coronavirus-risk-young-staggeringly-low-says-uks-top-statistician/

“Let’s look at the young group. People are anxious about children, and there’s 10 million under 15s in England and Wales, how many of those have died? Had Covid on their deaths out of these 30,000 have died? Two out of 10 million.”

Acknowledging such cases were “very tragic” he said, “this is the tiniest risk you could ever think of”.

Although children and young people may pass on Covid-19, their personal risk was “staggeringly low” he continued.

“If we look at under 25s, there’re 17 million of them in the country where we have 26 deaths recorded,” he said, suggesting a similar risk would be seen in “a couple of days” in general accidents and sudden deaths.

Gracie Knoll
Gracie Knoll
6 years ago
Reply to  BecJT

I have mentioned this before, but when the media started their hysterical scaremongering about “the CHILDREN, OMG! OMG! The CHILDREN!” –

– I decided to see how many kids died in each UK flu season, on average. A quick trawl of abstracts on PubMed yielded the answer: around a dozen child deaths annually.

Of course any childhood death is a dreadful tragedy, but it appears that Covid19 is around 6 times LESS likely to cause a child’s death, than is your average seasonal flu bug.

Others could easily check these abstracts and reach the same conclusions. At least SOME of the Fear Porn is now being challenged.

T. Prince
T. Prince
6 years ago

All of this information is fantastic to have but still Johnson will stand up later today to tell us nothing about how he intends to lift the lockdown. Even his little strap line has been changed to “Stay alert (what the hell does that mean!?), Control the virus Save lives.

What is going on?

Jonathan Castro
Jonathan Castro
6 years ago
Reply to  T. Prince

“Stay Alert”
“Control the Virus”
LOL

IanE
IanE
6 years ago

Yep – it’s mind over matter, just as long as we focus!

Mark Hunter
Mark Hunter
6 years ago

The BBC’s running headline on the website this morning are all about ramping up the fear again, from South Korea and Germany’s warning of a second wave, to Labour and Sturgeon’s condemnation of the “stay alert” message. There’s even a headline about some police commissioner wanting even more stringent powers over us.

It’s beyond disheartening. Who’s controlling the narrative now?

T. Prince
T. Prince
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark Hunter

Exactly how I feel now; it’s getting scary

hotrod
hotrod
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark Hunter

The news from S.Korea and Germany are surely to be expected outcomes of relaxing restrictions. No? This won’t go away quickly but the risk for the elderly and vulnerable remains. So in both S.Korea and Germany as long as the vulnerable are protected then just carry on. Too many expect certainty, since when has anything been certain?

BecJT
BecJT
6 years ago
Reply to  hotrod

S Korea was 19 cases, they’ve worked out main route of transmission is hostess bars and nightclubs, closed those, hey presto, no problem!

BecJT
BecJT
6 years ago
Reply to  hotrod

PS Germany has a massive (disgusting) sex industry, I’d bet all I own that’s what’s done it.

T. Prince
T. Prince
6 years ago
Reply to  BecJT

“Germany has a massive (disgusting) sex industry,” Correct, but no ‘second spike’…Another myth being peddled to justify the dumb decisions being made by this dumb Government

https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/2020-05-03-en.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

Amy
Amy
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark Hunter

I wonder the same thing – how is the media is benefiting from this? Ad revenue is down across news outlets – it’s not like they’re making money hyping the fear.

karate56
karate56
6 years ago
Ross Worthington
Ross Worthington
6 years ago
Reply to  karate56

Yes, the author Matt Ridley has also co-written an article in The Telegraph with David Davis about Imperial’s little local difficulty with their coding! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/10/chilling-truth-decision-impose-lockdown-based-crude-mathematical/

Jane
Jane
6 years ago

There are various shades of scepticism ranging from black (we should have gone on with life as normal) to light grey (eg voluntary social distancing would have been enough). I tend towards the black end of the spectrum. As Dr Wolfgang Wodarg says, people were travelling back and forth between Wuhan and other parts of China at least until January 24th when lockdown there began. It would have been impossible to avoid transmission of covid19 outside one specific region. If the virus had been as dangerous as claimed then people would have been dropping like flies all over China and no amount of state censorship could have concealed that. Only people in Wuhan were tested. This means that if you fell ill with an upper respiratory infection in Wuhan, you had covid19; if you fell ill with such an infection anywhere else, you had flu or pneumonia. If no fuss had been made about covid19 would we ever have noticed anything unusual was going on? Dr Ionnadis thinks we would, a bit, Dr Wodarg thinks we wouldn’t. Maybe that’s where the argument should be refocussed.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  Jane

I agree that’s where we should be looking, and I tend to go with Ioannidis rather than Wodarg on this, because it would have been a particularly bad “flu season”. but life would have gone on for the vast majority, as it has during past bad flu seasons,

That’s the path not taken, and all the costs we are facing now, over and above what that bad flu season would have cost, are costs of the response and not of the disease itself.

It’s legitimate to blame our politicians, our media, and all the scaremongering experts and commentators for these additional costs. They are the costs of allowing fear to overwhelm reason, of panic.

Jane
Jane
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Another thing I find strange is that as early as January 4th, five days before the first confirmed covid19 death, the South China Morning Post was already in Wuhan, doubtless with the permission of the PRC, making a video to drive home the message of a “mystery illness.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LtA0-qoHOg It was like the opening scene from a horror film: everything outwardly calm, people standing about in masks, creepy music. The SCMP put out a whole series of such sinister videos. To me it seems that far from trying to cover up this mystery illness the PRC, for reasons I can’t fathom, was trying to set the scene for the whole panic scenario that has subsequently swept the world.

Farinances
Farinances
6 years ago
Reply to  Jane

I’m sort of….. Dark grey.
I think if we didn’t know about it, life would certainly have gone on as normal (with a noticeable extended slightly worse than normal ‘flu’ season)
However if we do know about it, we may as take sensible precautions. These are shielded care homes and hospitals, voluntary self shielding of vulnerable people (with state backed financial support to back them up), and some sensible Sweden style ‘social distancing’ measures (most notably no mass gatherings – but only in the short term). In fact that’s as far as I think mandated social distancing should have gone – no mass gatherings in the short term. Everything else re: distancing behaviour should have been voluntary and focused on protecting the vulnerable whilst maintaining normal life.

Nigel Baldwin
Nigel Baldwin
6 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

We had a particularly bad strain of flu in 2015 when over 28,000 people died. I didn’t notice, but then I work from home. So, if we’d not had the media piranha-like frenzy this time would people who were not infected really have noticed? Genuine query, not trying to make a point.

Farinances
Farinances
6 years ago
Reply to  Nigel Baldwin

Only medical professionals may have noticed. And even than as per my chat with the nurse the other day, they would prob have written it off as a ‘bad year’.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago

This new study highlights some of the things that people should have been taking into account from the start (I was, obviously, but the vast majority weren’t, I’ve seen no evidence the government did, and those who tried to were mostly howled down as selfish, heartless people putting money ahead of lives). I haven’t seen the study itself so it will be interesting to see the details, but it clearly demonstrates the utter bankruptcy of all the accusations that were used to suppress dissent as being “heartless”, and the basically moronic idea that this was ever just a choice between lives and money.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1280164/uk-coronavirus-news-death-toll-latest-r-infection-rate-uk-economy-coronavirus-study

He suggests 150,000 deaths over 5 years, so basically a heavy flu-like toll of 30k per year. I don’t know what assumptions he’s made, but if we assume something like 0.1-0.2% overall fatality and maybe 50% catching the disease (a lot more than catch flu in a typical flu season) in even an uncontrolled epidemic, that would give something like only 30-60,000 excess deaths from the disease, so clearly he’s using fairly generous assumptions. His suggestion of 150,000 deaths is probably basically the full toll to something like herd immunity levels, just dragged out over 5… Read more »

Jane
Jane
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Does that mean they’ll try to impose lockdown on us again every spring for the next five years?

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  Jane

Looks that way.

And if you were as deluded as them, acting as though we are facing a fantasy disease that’s as infectious as flu and as deadly as ebola, you might sympathise with them.

But since we probably both prefer to live in the real world we can stick to laughing at them derisively.

Gillian
Gillian
6 years ago

My mother has just turned 92. Thanks to an active and healthy lifestyle and good fortune, she is still in amazingly robust physical health but has started to have memory problems and has been diagnosed with early dementia. She now lives with me (for last 18 months) but previously lived alone and was very independent. She still enjoys life immensely. Her main pleasures until lockdown were:- a weekly visit to her hairdresser, a weekly lunch at her golf club (where she is remains a social member) with her old golfing buddies, visits to garden centres with me, pottering about the garden, visits with me to local coffee shops, a weekly dinner out with me at the local Italian eaterie, visits by her 21 year old student granddaughter and occasional trips out for shopping and coffee etc with said granddaughter. All of this has come to a halt with the lockdown. She now enjoys a daily walk with me around the village and that’s it. The rest of her time is spent indoors. I don’t know how long my mum has left of her long and fulfilling life but realistically it won’t be many years. I am distraught at the prospect… Read more »

JohnB
JohnB
6 years ago
Reply to  Gillian

My mum’s in a very similar position, Gillian. Early 90s, healthy, but memory going down the tube. She is in sheltered housing, with my brother visiting nearly every day. The highlight of her week was definitely the visit to the hairdresser ! They have been popping out for illicit picnics (eaten in the car) and takeaway fish & chips. Such criminality ! 🙂

I would chose quality of life – grandchildren, great grandchildren, family, friends, chapel, meals out, walks, etc, over any perceived greater safety by staying alone indoors. A very personal choice though. All the best.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago

The Mail headline today is “Final UK death toll from coronavirus could be worse than the second World War with almost 700,000 dying over five years”, over a story that actually points out that the costs of the lockdown response even just in lives lost will be immensely higher than the death toll of the virus itself.

Small wonder we have such a deluded, frightened population.

Farinances
Farinances
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Where did they get that from? Are they talking domestically only cause surely way more soldiers than that died??

I can’t believe they’re still pushing the bloody WW2 comparison. It’s so cynical, clearly bollocks and I can’t believe people can’t see through it.

But I suppose it was inevitable once they started using the familiar personifying/anthropomorphic language about a virus. Covid isn’t just a virus it’s a baddy from a Marvel movie. It’s been given a face and a personality.

My dad made a very astute statement the other day (as a cancer ‘survivor’ – another term he despises even though it’s true) —
“They’ve replaced cancer with Covid. The number one enemy in health terms – the one that ‘doesn’t discriminate’, the one that’s a ‘war’ or a ‘battle’, The Big Bad Foe. Now people have forgotten about cancer- screw them, let them die – and Covid has taken on its persona of Public Enemy No 1′

Anyway I’m pretty sure he’s thanking his lucky stars he had that ‘battle’ over and done with a few years ago and didn’t have to ‘fight’ it now and during all this.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

It’s just an irresistible comparison for the headline writers and for scaremongers.

Your dad would probably have died if his cancer had come up now rather than before this crisis. I sympathise, because I have a bit of lung missing due to cancer myself).

BrianJR
BrianJR
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

I don’t mind how they write it up, as long as they begin by stating that every year, on a 5 year average, over 520,000 people in the UK die – so that’s 10,000 per week folks. Every week. Every year.
So that would be 2,600,000 people over 5 years.
Just check https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

And also include a bit of teaching about numerators and denominators to help them work something out for themselves…

Whatever happened to context ?

ianp
ianp
6 years ago

I am convinced that Boris is on our side, he giving people a chance to end this bollocks on our own.

He is culpable of course but we have to do this for ourselves. Right now

Otherwise he bloody must deliver a climb down today.

South West Skeptic
South West Skeptic
6 years ago
Reply to  ianp

I think if he’d had a milder version of the virus, we’d be in a different place right now. I don’t envy the government. Back in early / mid March I thought I was going to lose my business, we thought food supplies were going to run out and we all had a 1% chance of dying (although even the latter was starting to be disproven). We’ve all had 2 months to gather all the facts and make more informed decisions. Surely the government is the same? Why can’t we get a u-turn when we want one?

Mark
Mark
6 years ago

Why was even a 1% chance of dying (and that assumes you even catch it in the first place) a reason to change everything and take a massive gamble with the entire economy?

Honest question. I’ve never understood why we have to be terrified of such small risks. (Yes, I know the numbers of seriously ill might have crept up to where there was pressure on healthcare resources, but even in the worst conceivable cases that would just have added a few more deaths).

Why would there be food shortages and economic disasters, just from a disease like this one?

Why were people so scared of so little substance? I honestly can say that I looked at the numbers coming from China in January and February and I thought “it’s basically a bad flu, no big deal in terms of direct danger”. I was right, but I never dreamed we would panic in the way we did and inflict this needless catastrophe on the world. Though I did expect some over-reaction. I said from the start that the costs of the response would be far higher than anything the disease itself could inflict, and that’s certainly been born out, already.

… Read more »

Farinances
Farinances
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

I’m a head-cynic but deep down, a heart-believer that people are fundamentally good. Even as I get older and more cynical that kernel of belief in people refuses to die.

This shitshow is truly testing me though. Truly.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

Fundamentally good, perhaps. Also, it seems, fundamentally cowardly, weak-minded, ignorant and easily panicked.

JohnB
JohnB
6 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

Yep, good. But stupid. 🙂

Ross Worthington
Ross Worthington
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Two old friends from medical school (he the ex Medical Director of a large bio-tech company, me a GP for 35 years) had lunch in Cambridge just before the lockdown. The place was deserted as the population had already been cowed by the scare stories. We both thought that the infection fatality rates of 1% or higher being bandied around were ridiculous and agreed that we would be very surprised if the true figure were much different from seasonal flu. At the risk of being branded dangerous by Prof Ferguson I am still convinced we will be proven right!

Mark
Mark
6 years ago

I think the facts are gradually proving the three of us to have been broadly correct on that. And the comparison with flu is a very apt and entirely legitimate one (see my list of expert quotes to that effect in a comment near the bottom of this page, if you ever need discussion ammunition in that regard).

And I think now that people are starting to actually quantify the costs of the response to this disease, as opposed to the disease itself, it becomes clearer and clearer that it is the likes of Ferguson who were always the dangerous ones.

Gossamer
Gossamer
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

And regarding lockdowns: since when did China become a model for how all states should act towards their citizens?

peter sokalowzki
peter sokalowzki
6 years ago
Reply to  Mark

This level of lockstep would not be possible without smart phones. Info war ?

Farinances
Farinances
6 years ago

Yes, I definitely think Boris’s balls shrunk back inside his body when he caught Covid. And they have yet to reappear.

BTLnewbie
BTLnewbie
6 years ago
Reply to  ianp

I used to be a fan of Boris.
I now fear that, to his mind, he is demonstrating Churchillian leadership by forcing us to endure the lockdown for as long as possible “in the interests of our own safety”. He will be driving his cabinet in the same direction, facts or no facts.
I suspect he has his VC* Day speech already planned, along with Buckingham House balcony appearance.
*Victory over Corona

IanE
IanE
6 years ago
Reply to  BTLnewbie

Yep – could have been Winston Churchill, but has become Greta Chamberlain.

Nigel Baldwin
Nigel Baldwin
6 years ago
Reply to  BTLnewbie

If this virus us so contagious how come just two (as far as I know) of the Cabinet got it?

IanE
IanE
6 years ago
Reply to  ianp

I am convinced that Boris is on his side – it’s just that he doesn’t know what that comprehends (else he would not have kept the HS2 and Huawei decisions)!

BTLnewbie
BTLnewbie
6 years ago

Re the “14-day quarantine for inward flights” plan. Rishi Sunak will surely be fighting this tooth and nail – tourism accounts for almost 10% of GDP and employment in the UK:
https://www.visitbritain.org/visitor-economy-facts
and the biggest spenders per head are the Chinese!

John Levett
John Levett
6 years ago
Reply to  BTLnewbie

My guess is that this is only a temporary ‘stick’ requirement until such time as the carrot of vaccination will be offered as our gateway to the world.

BTLnewbie
BTLnewbie
6 years ago
Reply to  John Levett

“Temporary” for 18 months plus, if we’re waiting for the vaccine! That’s an awful lot of jobs lost in the meantime.

John Levett
John Levett
6 years ago
Reply to  BTLnewbie

Yes, but my point was less to do with the timing and more to do with nudging us towards the ‘vaccine’.

Gracie Knoll
Gracie Knoll
6 years ago
Reply to  John Levett

“The vaccine….the vaccine…….the vaccine…”

“Yea, verily I say unto you, thou shalt endure trial and tribulation until the clouds doth part and the Holy Vaccine descendeth to anoint thee with the benison of Salvation from evil! Ask not when it cometh, but hold thou steadfast to the faith……”

That’s about the size of it. We are possessed by the Covid demon, and it can only be exorcised by St. Bill Gates wielding his Golden Syringe.

Apparently, humanity’s ability to acquire NATURAL herd immunity doesn’t exist any more. Since about 2 months ago.

PLEASE! SOMEBODY! ANYBODY! IN THE SCIENTIFIC AND MEDICAL COMMUNITY – GET OFF YOUR ARSES AND SPEAK OUT! The silence of the people who should be naysaying all this nonsense is beginning to grind me down.

Remember we only need 3.5% of the population to be united, in order to bring about change? Is that too much to ask in today’s Britain?

Victoria
Victoria
6 years ago
Reply to  Gracie Knoll

Many scientists and doctors are speaking out but are ignored by newspapers and banned by social media players (massive Censorship). It is up to us to help them spread their message so people can be informed (pros and cons) and then make up their minds. https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/05/10/is-there-a-vaccine-for-coronavirus.aspx

Nigel Baldwin
Nigel Baldwin
6 years ago
Reply to  Victoria

Don’t subscribe to the myth that YouTube etc is censoring all dissenters, it’s not true. And no, I’m not a defender of corporations, but if we don’t tell the truth it’s just propaganda. Just two of the vids alleged to have been taken down by YouTube and they haven’t: i) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Q4naYOYDw&list=WL&index=5&t=1594s ii) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f0VRtY9oTs&t=1824s

Nigel Baldwin
Nigel Baldwin
6 years ago
Reply to  Gracie Knoll
DocRC
DocRC
6 years ago
Reply to  Gracie Knoll

I think you’ll find Doctors have been speaking out. Dr John Lee has had 3 excellent articles published in The Spectator magazine. It is an uphill battle though. I and several Doctor friends have sent sceptical letter to The Telegraph and The Times but none have been published. Here was my latest letter the other day:

Sir, Now we are on the verge of being at least partially released from lockdown, it is time to have a preliminary look on how we got here. On 17th March the Government advised us to start social distancing and stricter measures were advised on 21st March. But the Imperial College team led by Prof Ferguson announced that these measures could still lead to 250,000 deaths in the UK and the NHS being overwhelmed. Understandably the Government reacted to this with the lockdown on the evening of 23rd March. But if we are following the science, we should look at the evidence. Sweden has pursued a different course, similar to the one the UK was following from 17th March. The Imperial model predicted that the deaths in Sweden could be as high as 183,000 if the Government there did not lock down the country.… Read more »

Gracie Knoll
Gracie Knoll
6 years ago
Reply to  DocRC

Perhaps a JOINT letter from a group of medics, (as large a group as possible) especially if there was a “heavy hitter” or two amongst them – eg a professor of immunology or virology or microbiology or pathology – might carry more weight than letters from individual doctors.

Then again, it might still be ignored. Thanks for trying though – please, will you and your colleagues keep up the pressure? The country needs you!

Ross Worthington
Ross Worthington
6 years ago
Reply to  John Levett

Ah, the assumption that we will have a vaccine any time soon, if ever. No vaccine has ever been developed for any coronavirus. My wife reminded me the other day that research to find a vaccine to the common cold (another coronavirus) has been going on for donkeys’ years.

Mark
Mark
6 years ago

But..but.. those salesmen were such earnest and honest looking chaps. They promised they’ll have the vaccine ready in a few months. It’s all but a done deal, they said. And it’ll be perfectly safe.

Wait…are you suggesting we should be sceptical of such promises!!?

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