Finally, the Lockdown Skeptics shop is here! Yes, click on this link and you will be taken to the all-singing, all-dancing Lockdown Sceptics shop. I’ve also included a link in the top right-hand corner of every page.
No need to wear a mask and no social distancing required!
In addition to this splendid mug, we have T-shirts in all different colours, hoodies and tote bags. More merchandise will follow…
The central motif – a British bulldog muzzled by a face mask – was designed by my 16 year-old daughter and turned into a proper logo by a professional illustrator. I’ve promised Sasha 10% of the profits so she can enjoy the summer after a miserable three months being under house arrest at our home in Acton. So please get your shopping trolleys out and go bananas.
Help me turn the muzzled bulldog into this summer’s must-have brand.
YouTube Shadow-Bans Peter Hichens
YouTube is at it again. Today, the company has been caught red-handed “shadow banning” an interview Peter Hitchens did on the Triggernometry channel entitled “Lockdown is a catastrophe“. The interview was published at 6pm yesterday, but if you search for for “triggernometry Peter Hitchens” on YouTube or search for “triggernometry YouTube Peter Hitchens” on Google the video doesn’t appear in the results. That’s no accident. On the contrary, it’s a tried-and-tested way for YouTube – and its parent company Google – to suppress traffic to an interview they deem suspect. The two comedians who host Triggernometry, Konstantin Kisin and Francis Foster, have made a video (on YouTube) to illustrate the problem.
Shadow-banning is a particularly insidious form of censorship because it’s impossible to appeal against. When I was notified by YouTube last week that my video entitled “The Case Against Lockdowns” had been removed because it violated the company’s “community standards”, I was given the option to appeal, something I’m intending to do. But in this case, the censorship is unofficial – YouTube hasn’t notified Triggernometry that it’s suppressed the interview with Hitchens. It’s censorship on the sly.
Konstantin Kisin and Francis Foster are both members of the Free Speech Union’s Advisory Council and the FSU will be doing what it can to help. Six months ago, YouTube removed an interview they did with the feminist campaigner Posie Parker for the Triggernomentry channel, claiming it contained “hate speech that promotes or encourages violence against vulnerable groups”. Parker’s sin, apparently, was to say she didn’t believe transwomen are women. Kisin and Foster appealed the decision and also kicked up a stink on social media and the video was reinstated. Needless to say, YouTube didn’t even bother to respond to their appeal.
Shadow-banning is a form of “deceptive blocking” which was referred to in Trump’s executive order last week aimed at removing the legal protections currently enjoyed by social media companies like YouTube so that henceforth they can be sued by users if they censor their content, whether directly or indirectly.
Let’s hope Trump’s Executive Order, as well as the threat of legislation, forces YouTube and other social media companies to be less censorious. Given their increasingly important role as forums for public debate, their terms of service and content moderation policies should be politically neutral, not designed to promote a narrow range of woke orthodoxies.
Stop Press: The WHO has changed its mind about wearing masks and now recommends against dong so. Let’s hope it doesn’t post its new guidance on YouTube because the company may be forced to remove it on the grounds that it contravenes the recommendations of… the WHO.
Mothers Threaten Gavin Williamson With Legal Action if Schools Don’t Abandon “Draconian” Social Distancing Rules
#NotOK, the lobby group set up by three mothers to campaign for the reopening of schools, has threatened the Government with a law suit for breaching children’s human rights if schools don’t remove the absurdly restrictive social distancing rules they’ve brought in, supposedly following official guidance.
According to a story in today’s Mail:
Three mothers are considering suing the Government over school closures – amid claims they may have breached children’s human rights and pupils are being “treated like they’re germs”.
The women have also written to the Secretary of State Gavin Williamson to ask whether the “long term physical and mental welfare” of pupils has been considered, and to raise concerns about social distancing.
Campaigner Christine Brett, who has two children, said: “These are healthy children who have been quarantined for 12 weeks – they shouldn’t be treated like they’re germs, disinfected on entry and separated on to individual tables.”
“Us and Them” campaign group founders Molly Kingsley, 41, Liz Morris, 46, and Mrs Brett, 48, all from Cambridgeshire, have one child each returning to school and another still stuck at home.
Regular readers won’t need reminding that Christine Brett is a contributor to Lockdown Sceptics. She wrote a piece for the site arguing for the reopening of schools on May 17th that you can read here.
It’s not just the fact that some primary age children still can’t return to school that #NotOK objects to. It’s also the draconian social distancing measures that children as young as four will be expected to observe once they return to school. It is that, rather than fear of infection, that is prompting a lot of parents to keep children at home – 50% of those eligible to return today, according to the Times. Christine told the Mail: “Children are social beings and it’s really worrying that instead of going back to a supportive environment where they can actually recover from what’s happened, they’re going to be further damaged.”
If you want to sign up to the campaign, you can do so here.
Scotland Becomes More Like North Korea Every Day
Nicola Sturgeon has today threatened to pass draconian new laws to force the Scottish people to observe the country’s social distancing rules following a number of breaches over the weekend. On Saturday, for instance, Police Scotland dispersed 797 gatherings and car traffic trebled at some beauty spots like Loch Lomond and Glen Coe.
At present, the social distancing rules in Scotland are guidelines and don’t have the force of law. But that will change, the First Minister said, if people continue to flout them.
“It’s worth being clear that if there is continued evidence of even a minority not abiding by these guidelines and travelling unnecessarily, or meeting up in larger groups, we will have to put these restrictions on group size and travel distance into law,” she said. “We will not hesitate to do that if it is necessary for the collective wellbeing of society.”
That last phrase has an ominously authoritarian ring to it, suggesting Scotland is fast-becoming a one-party state. Guy de la Bédoyère, a regular contributor to Lockdown Sceptics, is unimpressed:
Just as I said the other week: the state always travels in the direction of totalitarianism unless someone stops the process. When do we ever hear from anyone in Scotland except Sturgeon? It’s a one-woman state so she proceeds unchecked. Furious that anyone has dared to challenge her edicts by travelling around at the weekend she cannot, like any tinpot totalitarian, resist the temptation to elevate the threat of punitive recriminations, believing that that’s the way to rule.
Perhaps this talk of bringing in more laws is Sturgeon’s version of a “dead cat”, hoping to deflect attention from the number of care home deaths in Scotland. According to the National Records of Scotland website, 46% of Covid deaths in Scotland since the beginning of the year have been in care homes, considerably more than England (37.4%). In an interview with Sophy Ridge on Sky News yesterday, Sturgeon made two dubious claims in her own defence.
First, she said she thought care home deaths in England had been under-counted. But while that may or may not be true, there’s no reason to think deaths in care homes are more likely to have been under-counted than deaths in hospitals or the community, thereby altering the total percentage of deaths that have occurred in care homes. It’s still going to be higher in Scotland.
Second, she said that when the Scottish Government passed the Coronavirus (Scotland) Act on April 7th, empowering councils to move elderly adults with no symptoms of the disease from hospitals to care homes, she didn’t know that carriers of the virus could be asymptomatic. If true, that would reveal an astonishing depth of ignorance about the disease on the part of the First Minister. Was she living on another planet between mid-January, when the large number of asymptomatic carriers was first discussed by SAGE, and April 7th?
As the Times points out today:
- At a public briefing on February 25th, Dr Bruce Aylward, a senior adviser to the WHO Director General, said: “The iceberg is you’ve got critical cases, you’ve got severe cases, you’ve got mild cases and a bit of asymptomatic transmission probably at the bottom. That seems to be what it looks like.”
- On February 28th, the WHO published a study from China entitled: “A familial cluster of COVID-19 indicating virus can be transmitted by asymptomatic carriers.”
- At a briefing on April 1st, Dr Maria Van Kerkhove, the Imperial College academic, said: “We know that… the transmission of this virus is driven by people who are asymptomatic.”
- The following day, the WHO issued a COVID-19 situation report that stated: “Asymptomatic cases have been reported as part of contact-tracing efforts in some countries.”
- At the WHO briefing on April 3rd, Dr Michael Ryan, Executive Director of the WHO Health Emergencies Programme, said: “There is always the possibility of asymptomatic transmission.”
- On April 4th, Sir Harry Burns, the Chief Medical Officer for Scotland when Ms Sturgeon was Health Secretary, told the Times: “There may be tens of thousands of people out there with the virus but no symptoms, and they are liable to spread it.”
Tony Banks, founder of the Balhousie Care Group which operates 26 care homes across Scotland with about 940 residents, accused Scottish ministers of a “disgusting” attempt to deflect attention from their own “missed opportunities” yesterday.
Let’s hope Mr Banks appears as a witness in Scotland’s public inquiry.
Keep Britain Free
Simon Dolan has launched a spiffy new website and given a name to his campaign to hold the Government to account – “Keep Britain Free”. You can check it out here. He’s also given an interview to Spiked that you can read here.
Could this be the beginning of a new political movement? Numerous people have contacted me, on the left as well as the right, urging me to found a new political party devoted to defending our ancient liberties. Not a libertarian party, since it wouldn’t be campaigning to strip the role of the state back to that of a night-watchman. Rather, a party that campaigned for our Common Law rights as freeborn Englishmen to be restored – not just those suspended during the lockdown, but those that have been gradually eroded since the Second World War, such as our right to free speech. The Common Law Rights Party… although with a snappier name.
Watch this space.
Chris Whitty Opposed Airport Screening in 2018
A reader has got in touch to flag up this 2018 lecture by Chris Whitty, the Chief Medical Officer of England, in which he says that screening at airports and banning travel is utterly useless when it comes to preventing pandemics spreading. Could this be why the NERVTAG meeting on January 21st, attended by Chris Whitty, recommended against port-of-entry screening? As I pointed out yesterday, those countries that introduced it in early January have some of the lowest Covid death counts in the world.
How High Are Excess Deaths in the US?
Nobel laureate Michael Levitt has compared excess deaths in the 2019/20 Flu + COVID-19 season in the US with excess deaths in the 2017/18 flu season and estimated that there have been 185,315 in 2019/20 compared to 136,313 in 2017/18. So a difference of 49,002, or an increase of 36%. This is a much smaller estimate than that made by the Yale School of Public Health and published in the Washington Post on Saturday, although even the Post says, based on Yale’s state-by-state analysis, that excess deaths have been higher in those states that have imposed the strictest lockdowns and haven’t yet eased them. “For the most part, the states that continue to maintain especially restrictive social distancing rules are those that suffered the largest numbers of excess deaths,” the Post writes.
The number of excess deaths during the pandemic compared to the number of excess deaths from seasonal flu in recent years will be a big debating point as the post-mortems get underway, as will the number of excess deaths caused directly by COVID-19 compared to the number caused indirectly, e.g. as a result of the lockdowns.
In Germany, for instance, the number of directly caused COVID-19 deaths to date (8,605) is about a third of the number who died of seasonal influenza in 2017/18 (25,100). Angela Merkel initially described the pandemic as the worst crisis to afflict the country since the Second World War. She may come to regret those words…
Readers’ Dispatches from Singapore and Albuquerque
I’ve published two more “postcards” from people in different countries, describing what it’s like to be locked down in their parts of the world – one from Singapore and one from Albuquerque. The latter is by a severely disabled person called Kaatje van der Gaarden who’s found that the lack of support for people like her has made the lockdown particularly hard to navigate. Here’s an extract in which she points out that the cost of the lockdown in her state is likely to be greater than any benefit:
Studies show that prolonged stay-at-home orders aggravate mental health disorders, decrease our immune systems, and may prevent herd immunity. Most worryingly, the lockdown is destroying our societal and global fabric. Segregate and protect the elderly and those at risk, maintain voluntary distancing and use masks and gloves as needed, and let people decide whether or not they want to risk going to a store. Being alive comes with all sorts of risks that we normally accept, yet COVID-19 scared politicians and the media into a panic which they turned into propaganda.
Both postcards are worth reading in full.
Round-Up
And on to the round-up of all the stories I’ve noticed, or which have been been brought to my attention, in the last 24 hours:
- ‘Covid-19 – a case for medical detectives‘ – Interesting article by Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg, a German physician and former public health officer in Schleswig-Holstein. He believes treating patients of African ancestry with hydroxychloroquine is dangerous
- ‘The world panicked with ineffective lockdowns‘ – Daniel Hannan in the Washington Examiner says the Italian Government panicked after its plan to just lock down northern Italy leaked and people started travelling south, so it locked down the whole country and then other European countries followed suit
- ‘Coronavirus quarantine will destroy travel firms, bosses warn‘ – The backlash against quarantining arrivals in Britain from June 8th continues, with airline and travel industry bosses warning it will be catastrophic
- ‘Italy opens up its monuments and beaches to tourists‘ – Meanwhile, Italy has scrapped its two-week quarantine rule for visitors
- ‘How Middlesbrough’s “baptism of fire” reveals the risk to post-industrial towns‘ – Latest figures reveal that Britain’s top four hot spots for transmission are all in the north-east: Sunderland, Gateshead, South Tyneside and Middlesbrough
- ‘Covid has exposed America as a failed state‘ – Hard-hitting piece in UnHerd by Aris Roussinos
- ‘So where did the virus come from?‘ – Matt Ridley discusses the latest evidence that SARS-CoV-2 didn’t originate in a wet market in Wuhan
- ‘The NHS is letting down thousands of patients‘ – Max Pemberton, the Spectator‘s resident doctor, assesses the mounting death toll from the lockdown
- ‘Meet The Left Wing Pro-Lockdown Hypocrites Who Broke Lockdown Rules‘ – YouTuber Mahyar Tousi tots up what is becoming quite a long list
- ‘“Lockdown rules unenforceable and public will do what they want,” warn police‘ – The Telegraph has some bad news for Nicola Sturgeon
- ‘The real enemy? Infectious disease “experts”‘ – Hard-hitting piece in Conservative Woman by Donald S Siegel and Robert M Sauer
- ‘NHS has become the cause, not the cure‘ – Another great piece in Conservative Woman, this one by Richard North
- ‘Contact tracers claim they have no work in “shambolic” system‘ – Cue Benny Hill music
- ‘Lockdown: did it make a difference?‘ – Good piece in the Cyprus Mail about a a Cypriot epidemiologist who’s concluded that more than half of all infections have occurred inside people’s homes. This one is well worth reading
- ‘“It’s all Bullsh*t” – 3 Leaks that Sink the Covid Narrative‘ – Good round-up in Off-Guardian of public officials who’ve inadvertently revealed the truth about coronavirus
Theme Tune Suggestions From Readers
Some more suggestions for theme songs from readers: “Culturecide” by Primal Scream, “F**k Off Get Free” by the Thee Silver Mt Zion Memorial Orchestra and “Police and Thieves” by the Clash.
Small Businesses That Have Reopened
A few weeks ago, Lockdown Sceptics launched a searchable directory of open businesses across the UK. The idea is to celebrate those retail and hospitality businesses that have reopened, as well as help people find out what has opened in their area. But we need your help to build it, so we’ve created a form you can fill out to tell us about those businesses that have opened near you. Please visit the page and let us know about those brave folk who are doing their bit to get our country back on its feet.
Shameless Begging Bit
Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the last 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. It takes me about nine hours a day which doesn’t leave much time for other work. If you feel like donating, however small the amount, please click here. Alternatively, you can support the site by going to our shop and buying a T-shirt or a mug. And if you want to flag up any stories or links I should include in future updates, email me here.
No Update Tomorrow
I won’t be filing a daily update tomorrow as I’ve got to write my Spectator column, attend a Zoom meeting to discuss the decline of academic free speech, and prepare the papers for the forthcoming Free Speech Union board meeting. Normal service will resume on Wednesday.
And Finally…
This image appeared on the BBC’s website yesterday to accompany a story entitled: “The mystery of asymptomatic ‘silent spreaders’.” Even by the BBC’s scare-mongering standards, it’s quite something. Bear in mind that: (a) there isn’t a single case anywhere in the world of the virus being spread by footwear; and (b) the evidence that the virus can remain contagious on surfaces other than the human body is threadbare, at best.
There’s another consideration, too, which is the fact that ‘silent spreaders’ are responsible for so much infection – 10% of carriers account for 80% of cases, according to some estimates – is a good thing, not a bad thing, as Justin Fox points out in Bloomberg. It means far fewer people are infectious than previously thought and if we can identify these spreaders we’ll be well on our way to controlling the pandemic. But no. According to this BBC article, it’s one more reason to remain under our beds until we have a vaccine.
Discussion
Comments
This week across the site:
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Is this reminding anyone of -“ Invasion of the Body Snatchers”? Like you know deep inside that however clever you are and how much you try to stay sceptical – one day you are going to wake up and believe the new normal is absolutely fine.
Lockdown sceptics has kept me sane..I knew I was not alone in this scam of a lifetime. How refreshing to hear a doctor speak the truth …..People have gone mad…They are aggressive if you go against the narrative and people I thought were intelligent seem to have lost all critical logical brainpower. Quite frankly it’s terrifying to see how easily the Brits fell for this media circus hook line and sinker…and now won’t come out from under their beds..all logic buried there with them. However, I have learnt two things..or rather reinforced what I already knew. First the majority of humans have been dumbed down beyond the point of return. Secondly, the vaccination industry (that’s what it is) is horrific. I thought I knew a lot about big pharma but my investigations over the past two months and the revelations by medical practitioners have shocked. It’s time for us to stand up against this. People need to wake up before its way too late!
The quarantine guidelines that have just sealed the fate of thousands of travel and hospitality jobs:
https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/373562/home-office-lays-out-quarantine-rules
it’s ok though as she insisted: “These measures are informed by science, backed by the public and will keep us safe.”
Fuck off, fuck off again and then fuck off some more.
Just how have we ended up with such an appalling government? My head spins when I try to understand what they think they are doing to us!
Apologies for the language but I am so angry. They have systematically destroyed my livelihood. I did not get the SME grant due to being in shared office space and not being the business rates account holder. A new discretionary grant went live today but they want 16 pages of evidence that the business has suffered, has ongoing costs etc, etc and they have said my application is unlikely to be successful. They base it on figures from March to end May vs. previous year and on paper mine don’t look too bad as we get paid 2 months after booking so March and April income is based on Jan and Feb sales which are generally the busiest months. It does not account for the that those bookings are now cancelled and we have to hand the money back. In terms of new bookings between March and May we are 98.5% down.
The initial grant required no questions and was purely based on business rates. Also the new grant has been reduced to £5K for micro businesses and £10K for small businesses. All assessed on a scoring matrix.
We appreciate that the application for the Discretionary Fund is… Read more »
At least some MPs don’t support it:
https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/373557/mps-slam-quarantine-as-patel-insists-now-is-right-time
It is utterly appalling. This really is the final straw for me. I was relying on getting back to Greece to see my family in the next month, it was all I had to look forward to, and they’ve taken that from me as well. I doubt I will ever see one family member now as they have a terminal illness. I hate, loathe and detest this government and will never forgive them for what they’ve done to this country.
Not possible to book flights from/to Dublin, combined with a short hop over the Irish Sea ?
Any chance we can get the highlighting of new posts back? I liked being able to scroll down and quickly see the new posts in bright yellow.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o8j5eattfpip7s6/Alex%20Krupp%206%20February%202020_fwdeveryone.pdf?dl=0
This is an interview with Prof John Nicholls University of Hong Kong on the 6th Feb. We read this with benefit of hindsight but remarkable how correct his assessment has been. He might have got wrong about super spreader in this pandemic and possibility of nosocomial infection in hospitals and too optimistic about the spread world-wide outside Wuhan in the final phrase but he has got many things correct in the beginning of Feb.
He was very accurate in so many ways, but he could not know 06 Feb that the virus could have switched to humans as early as mid September 2019. Cambridge University only started work in mid February to establish the possibility of a much earlier covid 19 crossover date.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-52835564
“The latest data shows that up until 31 May there was a total of 3,911 fatalities where coronavirus is mentioned on the death certificate”
Half the population of Sweden and nearly as many deaths. I know they’ll likely use this as an excuse to keep us indoors so it’s hard to be overly critical.
However, it does highlight the futility of lockdown when compared to Sweden. Notice also the use of “mentioned on the death certificate” as a subtle way to suggest not all deaths should be counted as such.
Just watched the daily briefing, why I don’t know. In short, Whitty and Vallance have just confirmed lockdown, or at least social distancing through the winter. They also lied on live TV saying Germany and South korea have had spikes when they clearly haven’t. We’re fucked
The bit about the spikes is a bloody disgrace
God, it makes my blood boil. Look at the graphs for both countries on Worldometers, they are basically flat.
He was making it up as he was going along. He also said the R number was around 1 – that is almost certainly not the case, and nor does it matter anyway. I think he knew what he was doing, although my husband has just said that he thought he looked rattled. Perhaps the advisers are in denial, or are just going along with the flow from a government seemingly intent to hasten our collapse into oblivion.
What I find breathtaking is that they seem to be content, as doctors and fathers, to have the lives of a whole generation of young people blighted in one way or another, by promoting strategies that they surely know by now (there is enough scientific and medical evidence coming in from various studies) have no merit. Vallance completely contradicted himself in responding to the timing of quarantine measures. The response to Amy from Brighton’s question was wholly inadequate. Boris was his usual bluster. What does he think should happen if the weather is ‘normal’ for the next month – we just stay in total lockdown. Having also watched some of Jeremy Hunt’s questioning of Dido Harding, another unelected adviser of questionable pedigree, I despair.
Yes, and read what CityAm wrote about her at the time (you can get a good idea from her Wiki page).
I certainly won’t be antisocial distancing throughout winter. That’s if I can find any friends left who haven’t given in to this appalling new abnormal.
Agree with you I wont be either .I’m having a bad day today when I hear things like this It makes me feel physically sick
Whitty and Vallance clearly don’t know that CV19 has gone from the population and anti-social distancing is completely unnecessary as it’s been defeated by Black Lives Matter.
So, if you and all your pals want to get together and anyone objects, just tell them you’re holding a BLM protest of support in memory of George Floyd.
Or am I being cynical?
Indeed. You can also say you are part of a Traveller wake, as the police admitted some time ago, it was in the wider public interest to not intervene to break it up (Manchester, I think, about 6 weeks ago). Then there is always the Rosie Duffield defence for – em – smaller groupings!
Notice that Boris didnt criticise the demo but underlined that if it was wet this weekend under no circumstances should we meet Inside
God I’m starting to despise this buffoon
And if this nonsense continues into the winter I will quite happily demonstrate against it and quite happily be arrested for my anti new normal beliefs!
..because if you read the SAGE notes, the plan is to compulsorily vaccinate the entire UK population for the flu this winter. Now that they know where everyone will be at night, they can come to people’s houses and do the jabs there..
Just had a chat with delivery driver who was sort of wearing a mask.
He said company insists they wear one at all times so went through the explanations of why this was not a good idea, many studies including WHO says not to, tend top in oxygen saturation, containing and reaching in increasing volumes of germs etc, his low risk and did he agree to the risk assessment for driving in a mask.
Standard answer “what risk assessment?” so explained the legalities about risk assessments and so on.
Told him off anything happens with him wearing a mask – fainting, dizziness that cause an accident or a bad respiratory illness then he’s to sue the arse off the company as they are liable as they made him wear the mask. Refer to the lack of agreement with the risk assessment as well.
He went away happy and would pass on all this to the other drivers.
Ha haha and screw ’em.
Of course it is really Boris and co who should be screwed (rusty pokers spring to mind for some reason).
Got this from the Martin Lewis in the Money Savings Expert newsletter today.
“Have YOUR say on how post-lockdown UK society will look – join the People’s Commission. Life has changed forever. The way we work, support each other, travel, shop, spend, and also the value we put on the roles people play in society. The past few months have been challenging for our country on every level, but it is time to try and find opportunity from adversity.
Cross-party think tank Demos has launched its “People’s Commission”. Its aim is to have 1 million people feed in to what life should be like when we return to normal. Have your say, join the People’s Commission https://renewnormal.co.uk
(Martin Lewis) agreed to be one of 11 commissioners, alongside the likes of former education secretary Nicky Morgan, trade union Prospect’s general secretary Mike Clancy and UK Youth chief executive Ndidi Okezie.”
If you go along with this you buy into their narrative of oppression. This is everything LS should be against. I’ve just completed it with as much abuse as possible.
Me too
Forward to all your lockdown sceptic anti-new normal friends
“Life has changed forever” Excuse my French but what a crock of shit. How dare they? I don’t believe God, but He ought to smite them, at least a bit, for casually saying such a wicked thing that is against nature.
This is exactly what has been planned in the post-democratic era. It looks great on the outside, the citizens having a say, but the commissioners will not be me or you, it will be those people who would never get elected by normal means and so they will steer the agenda. They, will of course, promote the ideas of those they agree with and ignore those they do not agree with and I guarantee it will be a radical left agenda,
The next thing that will be proposed is a technocracy – where unelected scientists, intellectuals and ‘experts’ will be put into positions of power
without being democratically elected. They will say ‘but these people know more than the politicians, they are experts in their field, they are independent’ . I think we’ve seen how independent these big pharma scientists are and how accurate the experts were during the covid debacle and , once they have been appointed, they can’t be voted out and every action the elite take will be covered by cries of ‘we are only doing what the experts said’. This is just marxism – an attempt to destroy the structures of the UK whilst pretending… Read more »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niveDrQHFio
We’re f*****
Only if we think we are.
In my view, we should all oomplete the Demos survey to give some balance to those many who are accepting the inevitability of ‘a new normal’.
Thank God for the rain today – at least the weather is back to the old normal – and that’s a good start.
The dam is starting to burst, (though Patel has left herself on a rock shelf without a ladder to climb down). We’ll be back to normal by July, though many (indeed most) will have been psychologically scarred by the experience.
I really hope you are right that we will be back to the proper old normal by mid Summer. Certainly I feel scarred and bruised emotionally, in tears one minute, hysterically laughing at the absurdity of it all the next. It’s exhausting.
Something a little light hearted.
https://youtu.be/U7zkejgYSlg
Amy from Brighton…..
Great question…..
Did they know that question was coming?
Valence positive (ish), Whitty negative.
Great work Amy.
What was the question?
Spain has not seen any resurgence or second spike despite lifting their restrictions. Why?
Thanks. Nice one Amy.
“The first question is from Amy from Brighton, who asks what the UK can learn from Spain, which recently saw days without any deaths and as yet has not seen a resurgence – despite easing restrictions.
Vallance says the news from Spain is encouraging but we “are not out of this yet” and there have been fresh spikes in Germany and South Korea.
The PM claims the virus is a “kinetic force” and there is the risk of a “second pulse” and that is why the UK must remain vigilant.
Whitty points out that a second wave is “common” in most new diseases.”
What data is that man looking at from Germany and South Korea? Graphs I have seen are pretty flat in every respect in those countries. I don’t like to call a man a liar, but hard to see how he is not misrepresenting the truth, irresponsibly.
I guess “we’re not out of this yet” is a scientific term that I am too stupid to understand. I’m sure he knows what he is talking about.
The PM probably means the virus has kinetic energy. I don’t think science is his… Read more »
I think evidence comes from Scarey Movie type horror films. The ones where you think the boogie man is dead but comes back one last time just when you think it’s safe.
Still found all of their replies as infuriating as normal. I think everyone on who visits this site should submit a question to see if we can get some more sense into these press conferences.
https://www.gov.uk/ask
How about “Is the entire UK Cabinet being controlled via remotely detonatable subcutaneous explosive devices ?” ?
Hang on to your tin foil hats folks, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine
“The World Health Organisation and a number of national governments have changed their Covid-19 policies and treatments on the basis of flawed data from a little-known US healthcare analytics company, also calling into question the integrity of key studies published in some of the world’s most prestigious medical journals.”
wow guardian doing some decent work for once
Suddenly it is respectable to challenge the science when the WHO does it?
Why didn’t they say or do anything years ago, when these words were published?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/architect-of-sweden-coronavirus-strategy-admits-too-many-died-anders-tegnell
Tegnell: “the basic strategy has worked well. I do not see what we would have done completely differently … Based on the knowledge we had then, we feel we made the appropriate decisions”
But the headline is: “We should have done more, admits architect of Sweden’s Covid-19 strategy”
Thanks for clarifying, it happens so often that the content of an article contradicts the sensational headline.
Spin. Always spin. Topline is always their agenda. Quotes are soundbites that fits that agenda. Truth is there, but only in the third paragraph onward – because nobody reads that far.
Lies of omission and elision.
Thanks for this. I made the mistake of reading the BBC article covering this story….no guesses as to the spin they put on it too!! Don’t know why I did that, it’s like I’m trying to torture myself.
A wasted effort, our government is in charge of that!
IAM now starting to worry that there is no way out of this I think up until a week ago the government were putting all there eggs in 1 basket and convinced themselves a vaccine would get us back to normal in september
They have not mentioned a vaccine recently as even they realise that a vaccine will not be around for years if ever
The obvious option is that we shield the elderly and the vulnerable and the rest of us get on with things and that way we can reach herd immunity.
I run a cafe iv not learnt a penny for 3 months I have some money put by and can survive till october then?
The government must change direction and open the economy up ,but I’m really worried they will not and that we are facing an economic crash worse than the great depression
Anybody else feel this way?
Does anybody have an idea how this might all this end?
Would be nice to hear other peoples thoughts on an end game to this.
It is pretty much a certainty that there will be a great depression, with almost the whole world in this. As the ‘government’ said, we are all in this together. As for how it will all end, well I suspect the George Floyd riots will seem like a picnic.
MORE demos in london going on at this very moment ,police arent doing a thing ,yet dragged a number of people away at the anti lockdown demo at Hyde park a few weeks ago ,feel their is also lockdown frustration with this one no social distancing thing could kick off big time if it’s a long hot summer we will see
Social distancing should not happen so hopefully these people will realise nothing happened to them or that they get a mild flu and therefore a better immune response for future exposure to the virus.
Why should they get a “mild flu” ??
Maybe combine the two “All lives matter”?
I am sorry to head about your cafe, and hope you manage to get back on track.
Possibly the government were hoping for an early vaccine, though they themselves have openly said it might take a year, or years, or may never come.
As to how it ends, my hope is that a combination of factors will get us back to something like normal:
1) We’ll see Europe and other countries that have “closed down” open up, properly, and we’ll see that they will not have a large upsurge in cases requiring hospitalisation. The case for maintaing excessive restrictions and social distancing will be hard to make if we are the only ones doing it.
2) The economic effects will begin to kick in as furlough money tapers off and public opinion will want the government to get us all back to work
3) The unworkable, impractical, unnatural, inhuman nature of indefinite social distancing will start to take its toll on all but the most hardline lockdown advocates.
The key thing is to nudge public opinion as much as possible to give our cowardly leaders the confidence they need to make the decisions they probably… Read more »
haha, I should have read this before I posted my response.
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ 🙂
Yes I agree with this entirely. I suspect that before Christmas, life will be at least 90% back to the old normal for most people. So a v gradual shifting of things over the next six months, particularly as we see virus figures fall and fall and there is no “second wave”.
I think there’s a chance of that but it is no means certain. The government are enjoying their time in the spotlight. Hopefully as discontent kicks in they will relish it less and stop trying to wreck human life.
If it doesn’t, maybe we’ll be off to a saner country. Any suggestions?
Sweden!
It would not have been top of my list before this business started, but they’ve got my attention now…
Maybe Wyoming. Not many people there.
Be lovely if we could divide up world territory between people who want to live with the “new normal” and those who prefer actual normal.
Christmas? I want to enjoy the summer!!
As countries have started opening up I think we will see a rapid shift to get things back to normal over the coming weeks. That’s assuming the virus does not start spreading rapidly again which, based on what we know, is probably unlikely.
Some of the countries that have already begun have stated they will be accelerating the removal of most restrictions. As the evidence comes in from other countries it will become harder and harder for our government to justify maintaining the restrictions.
But our have just put extra brakes on and told us they won’t review for 4 weeks.
I’ve reached the point of praying for a meteor strike, or all out thermonuclear war.
90% of humanity is a waste of elements.
There is much in what you say – though I would have no objection to a targetted strike on Parliament.
Is there any chance that you could sell masks in your new shop? – featuring, proudly, the masked bulldog of course.
Not sure how many buyers you’d get 🙂
Absolutely not. Masks should never be worn.
unless you’re a; heathcare worker, highwayman, superhero, supervillain, terrorist or a attending a swingers party and you don’t want to be recognised.
I would buy a mask depicting someone else’s facial features (Dominic Cummings perhaps). It would work best against facial recognition software.
I notice that our glorious Home Secretary has stated that the quarantine measures are “temporary requirements”. What, as opposed to permanent requirements. It beggars belief that people of her calibre are running the country. And the “plan” will only apply to England, she says. LOL!
How on earth does it only apply to England? Presumably if we fly in to Edinburgh, we don’t have to quarantine? Or if we fly into Birmingham but give a Scottish address, we also don’t have to quarantine? This is all so incredibly stupid. I have no idea where this Patel woman is coming from in her ideas. I’ve ranted about this in the survey, all the ridiculous micromanaging by Patel and Hancock.
I think you can also fly to England via Dublin. The quarantine is unenforceable anyway. Basically you just give them an address and say you will be there and that’s the end of it.
That’s the answer to your own question: they are so incredibly stupid.
Some very good points here made by all sides. The virus issue is so huge I tend to think we should try to put all other differences aside as far as possible, for now.
But equally I think/hope we all believe in freedom of speech here, so if people want to express strong views on matters they believe are very closely related to the virus overreaction disaster then I’m sure we can cope, but I do think we should try to remain as broad a church as possible, within reason.
I don’t know much about Toby Young, though what I have seen recently from him seems sensible to me. The main thing he is hosting this forum, providing a focal point and in general writing persuasively in mainstream media about what is happening. That’s enough for me, for now.
BLM is something of a minefield. It has knocked coronavirus off the BBC news headlines briefly. You could think that’s a good thing as in some ways we need to get the virus off the news, but it’s bad in my view in that it just distracts from getting the lockdown and social distancing catastrophe properly debated.
… Read more »
“How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice – meaning respectively to ‘Resist the Beginnings‘ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have (turned out well). And everyone counts on that might.”
10 points for the reader who can tell me where this quote is from. Hint: it’s in a book. I will accept the title as a winning entry.
He’s wrong of course. If we have principles that we believe in because we’ve proven them over centuries then we don’t need to foresee anything at all. We only need to recognise that the principle currently being enacted (or proposed) is contrary to ours, and then resist that enactment. If the principles that we have developed in the West, for living together in relative harmony while having divergent opinions on… Read more »
I believe I recommended that same book to someone on here a week or two back. If so, it’s one of the best (most informative) books I’ve read on the events of the 1920s-40s in Germany, and I’ve read a lot on that topic.
I want to say William Shirer, but I don’t think it is.
Milton Meyer (Mayer?) I think. They thought they were free.
Excellent book.
Ah, thanks Mark, I’ll get a copy and add to my reading stack.
I think everybody should read Shirer’s Rise and Fall of the Third Reich as required reading a civic duty. Just saying.
Indeed.
A very pertinent book for our times, and the past once again serves as prologue. We thought we were free, too, eh?
I put the quote into google, which immediately gave me google book’s version of They thought they were free. On reading the next paragraph, there was the famous quote from Pastor Niëmoller, about first they attacked the communists etc. The following paragraph could basically be described as the ‘boiling a lobster’ principal, with each step only incrementally worse than the last, until it is too late.
Absolutely chilling.
Someone here complained that commentators only talk about using the name Nazi as an insult, and why not Stalin or Pol Pot. This book makes it obvious: Germany was a democracy, Russia and Cambodia were not.
Don’t know if anyone else has posted this, but please listen if you need reassuring that there are some other sane people out there. Here are four. Toby gets a mention at the end too:
‘Lockdown is not the “safe” option’ https://www.spiked-online.com/video/lockdown-is-not-the-safe-option/#.XtehHWzQ9Eg.whatsapp
looks like some more people have woken up too.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/enraged-italians-abandon-masks-denounce-pandemic-scam
Probably see an Orange Vest movement emerge.
Remember the Kawasaki like disease in Covid-19 infected children? I think this has been a big thing in MSM, BBC, Piers Morgan etc.
I looked in the UK Kawasaki Disease Foundation web site
https://www.societi.org.uk/kawasaki-disease-covid-19/answering-your-questions-24-may-2020/
I was surprised to see such a balanced well written document not at all jumping on Covid-19 hysteria band wagon.
In the first place you must learn a new acronym PIM-TS(PIMS-TS stands for paediatric inflammatory multisystem syndrome temporally related to Sars-CoV-2). It is Kawasaki like reaction after infection but has several things not in Kawasaki disease i.e. not having permanently coronary damage and almost always full recovery.
The first thing is to blame Covid-19 infection as PIMS-TS occurs after the infection. As I think only half had pos PCR ,they quickly started to discount the negative test as it was taken two weeks after the actual infection etc.
” It seems to be that most children who have Covid-19 show very few symptoms. A very small proportion go on to develop PIMS-TS about 10 days – 3 weeks later. This can be serious – and is different from Kawasaki Disease in its presentation, and although can be associated with heart inflammation, does not appear to target… Read more »
Great information thanks especially the higher number of lower respiratory tract infections incl flu as opposed to the much lower number of Covid deaths for children. Just saw an article in the paper of a hospitalised baby that survived Covid that had an undiagnosed heart problem.
I designed this mock up of our supreme leader Boris Jon Sun. It seemed appropriate now that we are living under a de facto dictatorship.
Brilliant. Can you make a shopping bag??
Yes but only if the State allows it 😉
Crikey that’s scary. Take a bow 👏👏
No idea about the accuracy of this but thought I’d share it in case its of interest.
Well! Well! Well! People are Waking up! Italy went against the WHO, saying no autopies on Covid-19, (wonder why?) Italy Did 50 autopsies and here’s something you all need to read, before the nonexpert experts from FB delete it!
Breaking Covid news! Italy has allegedly discovered covid is not a virus, but a bacterium. It clots the blood and reduces the oxygen saturation from dispersing throughout the body. They went against the World Health Organization’s that no bodies be autopsied. When Italian Ministry of Health ordered many autopsies, they found the blood was clotted in all of the patients veins. They immediately started using aspirin 100mg and a coagulant medication. And have had immense success. 14,000 people were released from the hospital as healthy and covid free. Italy is demanding Bill Gates and the World health Organization be held accountable for crimes against humanity for misleading, misdirecting, and withholding life saving information from the world, which cost the lives of thousands. Ventilators and ICU units were not necessary. A mandated vaccine is not necessary. Covid19 is a bacterium, easily
treated with aspirin and… Read more »
Thanks, very interesting. Can they explain why quite a number of other doctors have had success treating CV19 with hydrocholoriquine + zinc + AZT? (I believe the latter of those 3 is an antibiotic of some sort – which might explain it, given that I believe antibiotics work on bacteria and not viruses..)
It is a virus. You may get a secondary bacterial infection which antibiotics would help with.
HCQ + zinc, AZT and Remdesivir are all antivirals.
You do get blood clotting issues and heart failure. There is some speculation going on about whether the actual virus is infecting these tissues or if it’s just inflammation caused by the immune response. As far as I know nobody has actually found viral RNA anywhere except the lungs, nose etc.
The antiviral treatments are probably best used earlier on. When things starts to get critical, treating the inflammation is likely more important. But you may still need oxygen and/or ventilation because if someone can’t breathe they will die in the space of a few minutes.
Nobody really knows what combination of factors leads to the deadly inflammation and it’s probably different in different patients. Not being vitamin D deficient certainly helps.
My understanding was that azithromycin, an antibacterial, was used rather than AZT (azidothymidine), or perhaps both have been used
Did David Icke tell you all about this?
Interesting indeed.
It would appear that the excellent Dr Malcolm Kendrick is reaching a similar conclusion.
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/
Well worth a read if you like the medical situation clearly explained.
Another study seemingly backing this up:
https://www.gynecology.su/jour/article/view/633
Google it however and the three top answer debunk it – funny that.
Crimes against humanity: Italian member of Parliament demands arrest of Bill Gateshttps://www.naturalhealth365.com/crimes-against-humanity-bill-gates-3422.html
“In 2012, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation offered a multi-million dollar bribe to Nigeria to initiate compulsory vaccines. Gates promised every Nigerian state a half a million dollars each if they passed “a rigorous set of criteria based on outcomes in their polio program and routine immunization services” (per the foundation’s boastful website). This was after he had gone on record stating that immunizations could help reduce the world’s population.
In 2014, the Gates-funded World Health Organization (WHO) was accused of giving millions of African women “tetanus” vaccines that contained a sterilizing compound known as human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). Evidence from as far back as the 1970s shows that WHO researchers had been investigating how to concoct a “birth control vaccine” containing conjugated tetanus toxoid (TT) and hCG.
Gates also famously spearheaded India’s National Technical Advisory Group on Immunization (NTAGI), which mandated massive overlapping immunization schedules to children under the age of five. This vaccine campaign was believed to be the root of an epidemic of non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP) that affected nearly 500,000 Indian children between 2000 and 2017.
The WHO soon thereafter admitted that more children were being injured by the polio vaccine than by the polio virus itself”
Various fact checks suggests there is no substance to these claims. Obviously we already knew Covid-19 caused microscopic clotting – but…a bacterium? Seems unlikely. That said, when you have a serious viral infection, your body is often unable to resist bacterial infections…so that could be part of the underlying story…But I wouldn’t take these specific claims very seriously.
This would certainly explain a lot but it’s all a little too neat to ring true.
Do you have a link/source for that. If so please post it here and you should send it to Toby as well
No idea about the accuracy of this but thought I’d share it in case its of interest.
It’s bollox.
Kindly share so that the health authorities of each country can make their respective analysis of this information, prevent further deaths and redirect investments appropriately; the vaccine may come later…..
Obviously spam. Was it circulated via whastapp or similar?
I have just been listening to Jeremy Vine’s BBC Radio 2 midday programme and my blood pressure has gone vertical. No doubt following on from Clive Myrie’s BBC Ten O’clock News piece last week on the Royal London Hospital and the hospital’s battle with Covid 19, a stunningly manipulative report even by the standards of the Beeb, Vine has gathered together a number of people who have lost loved ones to the disease, and ‘experts’ who comment on the mental anguish suffered by these relatives and friends.
In terms of manipulative broadcasting it leaves Myrie’s report way behind. The stories told by the relatives are indeed tragic but no more tragic than those of those who have lost relatives to cancer etc., many of whom may have died because Covid 19 blocked their treatment. Is Vine going to turn his programme over to their stories when Covid 19 has run its course? I doubt it! Of course the stories are sad and the loss must be terrible but surely no more terrible than the losses from death experienced in the UK in their hundreds of thousands each year.
One of the main issues mentioned by those relatives telling… Read more »
I have thought for a long time now that the BBC is a disgusting, manipulative organisation and that their presenters are just puppets. We might as well be living in Saddam’s Iraq as far as propaganda goes. If I had the time I’d be campaigning for everyone turning in their licence fees, but I haven’t. Certainly turning in mine though. I’d only miss the rugby and since they’re not broadcasting any sport I’m paying £150 (or whatever it is) a year for nowt. .
I cancelled my tv licence direct debit today after many months of thinking about it (also my husband is against the cancellation, but I just can’t stand the injustice of paying for a corrupt institution I never watch or listen to and heartily disagree with on everything. The Blue Peter style childishnesses of its output stopped me watching years ago, but my husband liked to watch the rugby….however, since this Covid nonsense I just can’t take it any more. I hope they lose the right to tax us in this way soon; if others want their idiocy and wokeness they shouldn’t expect me to help pay for it.
Do it! and you’ll get a refund. If we all stopped paying….well wouldn’t that give them something to think about. Except this incompetent ‘government’ would probably pay them through general taxation, so no getting away from the idiocy….
The government has already shunted the Beeb a load of taxpayers’ money, hence the blatant propaganda. Cancel and enjoy your refund. Sends a message at least.
Well done ! He can watch the rugby in the pub, Marion. As I do the footie. 🙂
Good for you. Mine expired on Sunday and I’ve refused to renew it.
Jeremy Vine’s BBC Radio 2 midday programme is to be avoided at all costs. It is always one sided and very sensational. Not good for most of us.
Tim Vine needs to do a joke about it
Did you see this? https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/jun/01/jeremy-vine-at-the-bbc-you-can-have-values-but-you-cant-have-views-thats-how-i-operate
Warning you’ll need a sick bucket!
Pandemic Porn. The Beeb needs tearing fown
I’d quite like to burn your house down cause I’m pissed off with Donald Trump. You gonna let me?
On page 3 of the weekly NRS report published today: “Deaths have returned to normal levels in most areas” of Scotland.
First Minister at Holyrood this afternoon: “Life should not feel normal”.
From the Chief Idiot in charge of WHO
“The results of this survey confirm what we have been hearing from countries for a number of weeks now,” said Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, Director-General of the World Health Organization. “Many people who need treatment for diseases like cancer, cardiovascular disease and diabetes have not been receiving the health services and medicines they need since the COVID-19 pandemic began. It’s vital that countries find innovative ways to ensure that essential services for NCDs continue, even as they fight COVID-19.”
https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/01-06-2020-covid-19-significantly-impacts-health-services-for-noncommunicable-diseases
Who suggested the most inappropriate measure (lockdown) for African countries? WHO
The WHO seem to have done very badly
I agree 1000% with the Orange Man on this.
Banish them into bankruptcy. They did it to half the world, let’s do it right back.
Should be abolished. What a useless shower.
As someone who always regarded them as an internationalist abomination, I have no problem with that…
They should be having all their documentation and communication being seized for investigation bankruptcy is no where near enough.
Oh great, the WHOs on the case. Murdering scumbags.
We were treated like children: Group on why it challenged lockdown regulations (in South Africa) https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2020-06-03-we-were-treated-like-children-group-on-why-it-challenged-lockdown-regulations/
“We are of the view that there should be a proper balance between regulating the disease and violating the rights of the people. I know that it’s important to protect the lives of people but it’s important to protect the other rights of the people not to starve, for instance.”
“Judge Norman Davis on Tuesday suspended the declaration of invalidity for 14 days, giving the government time to “review, amend and republish regulations” that were consistent with the constitution.”
Court judgement shows why government should always be challenged https://www.news24.com/news24/analysis/first-take-court-judgment-shows-why-government-should-always-be-challenged-20200603
Judge “Davis repeatedly echoes what Professor Glenda Gray, president of the SA Medical Research Council, was recently pilloried for: that the regulations are unscientific, nonsensical and seemingly thumb sucks.
Ramaphosa’s ministers have largely refused to adequately explain their decisions to South Africans. With every new set of regulations announced, their approach and attitude was that the public simply must swallow what the state has prescribed. Whether it was the continued ban on cigarettes, the state of the public health system or how and when schools will be reopened, communication has… Read more »
Good for them. It is encouraging.
I like the term ‘thumb sucks’. Suggest we begin using it here in the UK. 🙂
The mask is as good as the fence to prevent …..
Look no. This whole thing is manipulation, and that includes the BLM protests. It’s so obvious and insidious if you look at the number of extremist bandwagon jumpers onto that.
It brings out the worst in people on both sides. Creates anger, division and hate and obfuscates the real fundamental issue : lockdown destruction and the obliteration of our democracy and freedom
I have read some comments on here I don’t like from fellow sceptics : anti immigrant (my parents were immigrants), Britain is best etc. and Yeah those mugs are not really my cup of tea.
I despise extremists on both sides and boy oh boy has this lockdown brought them out the woodwork (predominantly the leftie ones)
ANTIFA fascists, momentum, extinction rebellion, the virtue signallers, the narcissistic, the looney left… And I dread if the EDL scum rear their ugly heads at some point.
Fuck the lot of them
It would be disappointing if this forum which is attempting to collect all the available data and all examples of oppression in the name of COVID Secure becomes aligned with any particular political viewpoint. The issue of LD and SD transcends all such divisions and is about our civil rights and the need to ensure governments govern in a proportionate manner and do not use a crisis as an excuse for a power grab.
Sorry want to amend the above to insert “real or manufactured” after crisis
Yep, agree. That was pretty much my point. We should definitely not be aligned with any of them but when the choices seem to be non-existent, where do you go?
Conservatives (right) = lockdown, ridiculous rules and guidelines and barefaced lies, fear mongerers
vs.
Labour (left) = Even more lockdown, harsher lockdown, opportunistic virtue signalling bandwagon jumpers and fear mongerers
I am not a right winger at all, but presented with those 2 options and only those 2, I know which one I would be forced to choose
We need a new option!!
I’ve never been an extremist and up until recently most of my political allegiances were with the left. But there are plenty of people here holding opposing views with whom I agree. The problem I have now is that the current circumstances, aka the lockdown, are making me extreme. Not in a party political sense but in the sense of destroying this delusion that we are seemingly willingly labouring under. And how do you do that? It seems to me that democratically more people are in favour of these measures than are not – because they are convinced, by dodgy science, that there is a real and present danger. And the politicians have perpetuated this lie to achieve a very unpleasant end. I do not want my civil liberties trashed, I do not want to be told how near I can be to another person, but if these measures are supported by the majority what do I do? I become extreme. It seems to me civil order is only kept by the tacit acceptance of a bunch of rules that suit most people. Clearly there are some people on here who want to start banging heads together and I am… Read more »
We are probably on opposite sides of most issues outside of this coronapanic, but I don’t have a problem respecting your expression of your opinions when you make them effectively, even if I disagree with them. You talk a lot of sense and argue your points well.
You make a very good point here – we here are all extremists by virtue of our views on the lockdown and the coronapanic. So, bizarrely, are establishment figures like Lord Sumption and Peter Hitchens.
I’ve long recognised that I am de facto an extremist, though I would say that my views have remained moderate and reasonably static on underlying principles for half a century, while this society has moved so as to make me an extremist even whilst holding to opinions that were regarded as mere common sense when I was young. So in my mind, I am a moderate living in an extreme society, which many would doubtless suggest makes me as delusional as any coronapanicker or BLMer.
But I would propose “moderates living in an extreme society” as a pretty good description of lockdown sceptics, tbh….
I should add: welcome to my world.
Keeping it polite I think is crucial however strong your feelings are, so the respect is mutual. I do not support every ‘left-ish’ position since I am not partisan and like to think I follow good sense. I agree that you might not see good sense as I do and that’s part of the debate. But above all I value liberty and I’m not posturing when I quote Patrick Henry and ‘Give me Liberty or give me death.’ I have no interest in living for the sake of being alive. We are at a crossroads here and a very dangerous one, and I will man the barricades with anyone of any political persuasion in the fight for sustaining our liberties. I cannot stand intolerance of another’s point of view in any case. After the last election I gave up social media of all types because I was drowning in the hatred and bile that was spewing out of them as if from a cracked sewer pipe. I feel much better for it. I like this site and have come to like many people on here that hold views divergent from my own. I knew Toby’s work before I came here… Read more »