Many commentators simply take for granted that supplying arms to Ukraine is the right thing to do. This is by no means clear to me – even if you believe Russia is entirely in the wrong.
Of course, Western countries have already sent billions of dollars worth of weapons (including thousands of anti-tank and anti-air missile launchers) over the last few years, and especially the last few months. So a more pertinent question would be, “Was it moral to arm Ukraine?”
Let’s consider the possible consequences of sending arms versus not doing so. If we hadn’t sent arms, Russia’s invasion would presumably have had a far higher chance of success. It’s not entirely clear what Russia’s objectives are, but a reasonable worst-case scenario is that they would have annexed half the country.
This is clearly a very bad outcome from the point of view of most Ukrainians, who would prefer to live under Ukrainian rule than under Russian rule. (I’m assuming that outside Crimea and the Donbass, there isn’t much support for Russian annexation.)
But are there outcomes worse than Russia annexing half the country after a swift military victory? I think we can clearly say there are worse outcomes. Here’s one: a very bloody conflict that drags on for ten years.
As I noted in a previous post, the Syrian Civil War is now in its eleventh year, having claimed more than 400,000 lives – more than double the number who died in the extremely bloody Yugoslav wars. And one reason it has dragged on for so long is external arming of rebel groups.
Now, Bashar al-Assad may be a very bad guy. You don’t have to like him or his regime to acknowledge there can be few outcomes worse than the Syrian Civil War – worse, I mean, for ordinary Syrians. Which raises the question, “Was it moral for the US to arm rebel groups in Syria?” And it seems very plausible to me the answer is, “No.”
Returning to Ukraine, some commentators have already said the West should try to turn Ukraine into “another Afghanistan” – a protracted conflict that depletes Russia’s military and financial resources to the point where the regime collapses (or something along those lines). This strikes me as deeply immoral.
First, it’s by no means clear that regime collapse in Russia would be a good thing. Yes, Putin is a bad guy. But he could be replaced by someone just as bad or worse. Alternatively, regime collapse could lead to chaos or anarchy, which is not something we want in a state armed with thousands of nukes.
Second, a protracted conflict in Ukraine could wreak the same kind of devastation as Syria’s civil war: entire cities destroyed, and hundred of thousands killed. This has led some commentators to cynically remark that “the United States will fight for Ukraine, to the very last Ukrainian”.
There are several possible replies from those who insist we must send arms (or that we were definitely right to do so). The first is that Ukraine has a much higher chance of actually winning. This is clearly their strongest argument. Hence I would say the risk of prolonged insurgency has to be balanced against the chance of a quick Ukrainian victory.
Another reply is that the Ukrainians want to fight. But which Ukrainians? And for how long? While some young men might relish the prospect of taking up arms to defend their homeland, the same is unlikely to be true of most women, let alone elderly citizens or those with families.
And will ordinary Ukrainians be just as keen to fight if the war drags on for months or even years? Once weapons have found their way into the hands of diehard fighters on the front lines, the rest of the population may be committed to an insurgency – whether it wants one or not.
Yet another reply is that we have to stand up to Putin’s aggression. But if the effect of doing so is to turn Ukraine into another Afghanistan, maybe not standing up to his aggression is the lesser evil. The West benefits from deterrence, but ordinary Ukrainians pay the price? This doesn’t seem like a very good deal for the Ukrainians.
The fundamental problem for the West is that we’re unwilling to “stand up to Putin’s aggression” by actually putting boots on the ground. And for good reason: we don’t want to risk a nuclear war. Conditional on this being the case, doing less on the military front might be better than doing more. Why not pressure both sides to negotiate?
Of course, if we lived in a world without nuclear weapons, we could enter the war on Ukraine’s side and probably achieve a decisive victory over Russia – thanks to America’s overwhelming military power. But that isn’t the world we live in. And we have to make plans based on reality.
Now, it’s entirely possible that, thanks to all the arms we’ve sent, the Ukrainians will either defeat the Russians, or will hold out long enough to bargain for a good settlement. But it’s also possible they’ll find themselves locked into a very bloody conflict that develops a momentum of its own.
The fact that Western leaders don’t seem to even be considering the latter possibility – or, like Hillary Clinton, are actively cheering it on – is not a good sign.
To join in with the discussion please make a donation to The Daily Sceptic.
Profanity and abuse will be removed and may lead to a permanent ban.
It looks to me like Mallaghan is not prepared to put her money where her mouth is and is waiting for someone else to pay for her insulation.
So yet more vacuous virtue signalling by the noisiest.
Masks purposely being forced on children to dumb them down by depriving their brains of oxygen
https://www.newstarget.com/2021-12-30-masks-forced-children-dumb-down-brain-oxygen.html
By Ethan Huff
Stand in the Park Sundays 10am make friends & keep sane
Wokingham – Howard Palmer Gardens Cockpit Path car park Sturges Rd RG40 2HD
Telegram Group
http://t.me/astandintheparkbracknell
This is not only excellent news, it explains all the observed behaviour by Covid to date’
https://youtu.be/8EDBJBmlvXY
I would like to think that our “government advising scientists” would spot this in double quick time and act on it promptly despite it not having received peer review yet.
There are no models, no statistics and lots of real test-tubey type science, what’s not to like.
And if you can’t spare 15 minutes to watch it – it’s the t-cells, stupid.
Africa = younger population = less severe disease.
There seems to me a lot of over qualified people, over analysing the covid pandemic, & over talking a lot of science gibberish.
SARS-CoV-2 was never a danger to any fit, healthy, able body person under 70. The vaccines have done little to nothing, the lockdowns & masks etc have done little more than prolong the longevity of the “pandemic”.
The only thing we should thank is nature, (despite science creating the problem & scientists doing their best to make it worse) the virus did what most viruses do, evolved to be more successful, i.e. be less lethal. In general (particularly respiratory viruses) viruses become less virulent over time, because killing your host is suicide, a genetic dead end for any replicating organism, viruses may not be classed as a living organism, but their function is no different to a rabbit’s purpose in life, multiplying.
Many people called this out at the beginning, including me, the virus is just doing what viruses do, and no credit can be given to “the science“. All these armchair experts need to STFU now.
The governments determination to prevent us from achieving natural herd immunity has likewise prolonged the longevity of the “Pandemic”.
It would appear from your comment that you didn’t watch , and if you did, you failed to understand. He is describing the science which achieves what you are talking about.
You were right the first time, this man’s been waffling for the last 20 months, it would have been helpful had you actually described who you were linking to, then I wouldn’t have bothered clicking it or commenting.
According to this 16 minute video the “vaccines” far from doing nothing are actually mortally busy:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-numbers-killed-by-these-vaccines-is-much-worse-than-what-we-thought-dr-sucharit-bhakdi-mike-yeadon/5765883
Excellent link, thank you, 2m subscribers (now + me) 800k vies In 24 hours. Talking complete sense. How is this man not more influential?
Over half of todays Roundup covid related items are “not exactly news”, to use your phrase.
Clever clever journalists ‘revealing’ that Omnicon ‘appears’ to be less ‘dangerous’ than previous variants and bas not caused the expected disaster in southern Africa
Not worth reading at all, still less in full, since they are only telling us what we have already known for two months or more.
Meanwhile, desperate to appear Covid relevant, Local Live Online leads with “Popular pub closed for NYE” after kitchen porter falls ill and 90%* of other staff test positive (but with no symptoms or illness).
*It’s not a big pub so that would mean 9 out of 10 other staff ‘infected’ which is highly unlikely and, of course, they will be predominately young and healthy.
I used to think how much old news I used to keep seeing in the national papers. Still, some of these things are worth repeating, and there’s bound to be some people hearing them for the first time. They don’t give the viewing figures for this sight, but I’m guessing it’s many thousands, including a certain number of casual visitors.
My comment was not a criticism of Roundup editor, Luke Perry, it’s not his fault if this is the best UK Crusading journalism to be found.
I was going to.edit 1st para to 800k+ views in 10 hours, overnight in UK.
With the Roundup links, to be charitable perhaps the journalis concerned think they are being brave and ‘pushing the envelope’ as fare as they dare.
They need to dare a lot more than this since they obviously know what’s what.
He’s been far too mainstream narrative throughout for me, my gag reflex isn’t strong enough, stopped watching after the first 5 videos all contradicted evidence on this site what 18 months ago. I hear he’s big in mumsnet.
I’ve not come across him before but from this link I’ll take a further look. Perhaps he too is turning.
I’m getting the impression that testing and isolation may be on the way out. Because the results are becoming inconvenient to the Fascists themselves.
Interesting.
I think you’re right, Annie. Re ITEM #2: “Tasmania to scrap PCR test for travellers”, most Oz states are followig suit because the massive testing queues and sideling of workers who test positive are causing economic mayhem. They have also redefined a “close contact” of a Covid ‘case’, who therefore needs to join the PCR-testing queue and to quarantine, to be “someone who has spent four hours or more with a confirmed case in a household or household-like setting, such as a residential care facility” who will now only be required to quarantine for seven instead of 14 days and only take a home-RAT once, on day six of isolation.
Our insipid Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, said: “It is important that we move to a new definition of close contact that enables Australia to keep moving, for people to get on with their lives”. I wonder if the federal election, due sometime in the next 4-5 months, might have influenced his thinking – Morrison’s Liberals are trailing badly in the opinion polls, largely because of lockdown fatigue. Even though the Labor-Green opposition would be even worse on all things Covid, the federal Liberals have been the incumbents during the lockdown/restriction era and look like being punished for it unless the thoroughly modern fascists relax their iron grip on testing and quarantine.
Is this the start of the Thaw?
Phil
Adelaide
Generally, Phil, you’re the glass half-empty Australian here and I’m the glass half-full Australian. If you’re feeling optimistic, that’s a damn good sign.
Let us hope, Phil.
BTW, an assembly of Western leaders just now would be the biggest exhibition of squalid roguery the world has ever seen. All of them insipid, cowardly, petty, nasty, totally lacking greatness even in evil.
Oh, I don’t know, what about that Austrian bloke, the pioneer in the dismantling of the Nuremberg codes? Admittedly he isn’t imprisoning pure bloods yet but give it time…
And then there’s the Australian tyrant. No, not Kim Jong Dan (though admittedly some of his police brutality was pretty impressive), but the nut job with the unblinking stare who rounded up “Aborigines” and put them in internment camps. I never would have believed that they’d have done a rerun of Rabbit Proof Fence. I think that is getting towards fairly major league stuff.
I wish, but no I don’t think so. The tests served their purpose (manufactured a crisis) now they’ve provided the solution (“vaccines”). The tests are now problematic as they embarrass the efficacy of the solution. It’s an obvious natural progression that testing needs to be phased out now. What ever the agenda is, the tests now undermine the narrative, the jabathon.
From the podcast above a good point, why don’t we hear the numbers of deaths from omi? The last time I heard it mentioned it was 8 over a week ago….. What’s it now, 9?!
Off topic, but I watched the original Kingsman (2014) last night. Eerily prophetic – right down to Michael Caine promoting the ‘solution’ just as he did the vax.
Good movie. Shame about the sequel.
There is no “battle against covid”, you dumbarse! That would be like fighting a “battle” against raging toddlers. As stupid as declaring war on the common cold.
We are engaged in a war against cowardice, irrational panic-based overreaction, and fear-mongering opportunist scum. And the Times has been very much on the wrong side of it.
Another Times muppet.
Have they assigned Oliver Wright to big pharma corruption yet?
Long time since I’ve more than glanced at the Times for longer than it takes to confirm they are still pouring out establishment propaganda. Do they have a position against big pharma corruption now?
Oliver Wright is the former Independent journalist I referenced too many times a bit ago who wrote an article for the Independent in 2014 entitled “Revealed: Big Pharma’s links to NHS policy” and actually citing Pfizer and “AstroZenica”. See here:
Revealed: Big Pharma’s hidden links to NHS policy, with senior MPs saying medical industry uses ‘wealth to influence government’ | The Independent | The Independent
And here:
Big Pharma lobbyists exploit patients and doctors | The Independent | The Independent
He now works for the Times, so when a Sunday Times journalist appeared in a discussion with a panel including Toby Young some weeks back and complained about “anti-vaxxers” below the line on this site, and when that paper spouts animosity towards those who are sceptical towards Pfizer’s and “AstroZenica”‘s latest product, despite having a journalist working for them who has previously reported about pharmaceutical industry corruption and is therefore, one assumes, aware of some of the problems in that industry, and when this paper now seemingly refuses to ever put him (or anyone else for that matter so far as I am aware) on stories relating to such issues in the pharmaceutical industry today – issues, which it is all too apparent to those who look, are still ongoing – I began to really despise the Times and any of their journalists who are abusive to those sceptical or cautious about the gene therapy drugs. Hence me always referring to them as Times muppets (though obviously not everyone who works for them is necessarily bad).
The Times wanted to abuse us on this forum, this shining bastion of free speech and vigorous informed debate, so the Times muppets can jolly well have both barrels whenever their name crops up, so far as I’m concerned, they’re simply not reporting the truth of what is going on or even attempting to, and anyone who thinks this sort of paper can be trusted needs to remember this. The Times muppets are a disgrace to journalism. And that’s putting it mildly.
Not now that Bill’s 2022 cheque has just arrived.
Or it would be like waging war against a fantasy alien invasion. The public get told to bang pots and pans to scare the Martians away while wearing masks to symbolically protect their neighbours’ brains from being sucked out of their noses.
Totally futile and completely pointless insanity.
The real war is against the fraudsters and murderers, and as you say, the cowardly covidians. The extent of this crime is phenomenal.
In other news –
Bhakdi/Burkhardt pathology results show 93% of people who died after being vaccinated were killed by the vaccine
https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/bhakdiburkhardt-pathology-results
Here is the paper:
https://doctors4covidethics.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/end-covax.pdf
Conclusion
Histopathologic analysis show clear evidence of vaccine-induced autoimmune-like pathology in multiple organs. That myriad adverse events deriving from such auto-attack processes must be expected to very frequently occur in all individuals, particularly following booster injections, is self- evident.
Beyond any doubt, injection of gene-based COVID-19 vaccines places lives under threat of illness and death. We note that both mRNA and vector-based vaccines are represented among these cases, as are all four major manufacturers.
An entertaining little cameo of the dysfunctionality of modern US/UK society on sex/gender (sex is what you are, gender is what you pretend to be), after a century of trying to improve on the traditional human society made up of a vast majority of males and females, and a tiny minority of people who don’t fit in perfectly. Now after a hundred years of building a better society, they can’t decide whether sexual identity is even real, let alone if it is innate or if it is changeable, without outraging some minority group.
Well done identity zealots.
TalkRadio presenter James Max dutifully regurgitates all the standard virtue-signaller lines he’s heard people he thinks are important saying, while the feminist comes out with some basic common sense, and in the end Max is all but reduced to throwing up his hands and declaring she should be punished and silenced for her opinions. “I believe in freedom of speech, just not for people with opinions I really dislike, that might upset special people”.
All in all, imo nicely illustrates what a total mess our culture and society has become on sex/gender stuff.
talkRADIO
@talkRADIO
· Dec 29
Campaigner Kellie-Jay Keen and James Max clash over the issue of ‘sex-based rights’ and JK Rowling’s ‘trans-row’.
James: “I am slightly staggered by your views.”
Campaigner Kellie-Jay Keen: “What? That biological sex exists.”
https://twitter.com/jamesmfahy/status/1476491057827299338
As far as I’m concerned, watching feminists who spent their lives (they or their predecessors) demonising men as sexists, themselves getting demonised by trans activists, or their dupes like Max, as “transphobes” is definitely popcorn time. Both sides would doubtless happily see me censored and put in a concentration camp anyway.
Gender means to copulate. I just looked it up (OED 1933, 1970 reprint).
It also means sex (as in the fair sex) – “now only jocular“. Of course, some people may use it in new ways today.
Oh, and there are no such words as “transgender”, “transphobe” or “transsexual”. Happy days…
Well, gender me!
With a feather duster…
Radical feminists are still radical feminists once the one issue we may agree on has passed.
Equality is not even seeing or caring about race/gender/sexuality etc. Unfortunately, many of the dimwits that jumped on the virtue-signalling equality bandwagon have reached the point where they are trying to enforce equality through discrimination. It turns out that their psychology is not dissimilar from the racists/sexists/fascists etc that they thought they were fighting.
We won’t be free of this even if covid disappears. They are so drunk on the power now. They won’t give it up. We need to take back the power and I don’t mean peaceful protests. It’s about time we stormed government buildings and dragged them on to the streets and let the people decide their fate.
Blimey, if any government goons are reading this…
To be fair, people have been remarkably restrained given the wholesale human rights abuses perpetrated against us. I think the worst they’ve had at Downing Street is some tennis balls.
I wonder if this site will change if they get their Online Harms bill through?
Never mind, there’s always carrier pigeons…
It’s FUBAR, the system is beyond repair, & irrevocably corrupt. Protests, riots or even
freedom fighters“terrorist“, revolution can’t fix this now, we are seeing the implosion of industrial civilization. The only solution is the natural demise of Homo sapien, nature will sort this out.I don’t know if it’s the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning, but the end is nigh for the industrial era! Within months the economy will start to collapse, relying on the people (neoliberals) that destroyed it to fix it is lunacy. The current political trajectory means the end of humanity as we knew it. Science & technology were the cause, and if i’m honest, I think those that succumbed to covid may have been the lucky ones. I’m just glad most of my life is behind me, I’d hate to be here in 50 years to see what a giant turd the digital age will be like.
I hope to be here in 50 years to see us come out the other side. I think it’s just about possible, and we survived the cold war MAD after all. But there will be dark and dangerous times ahead. All we can hope for is to live honourably, be on the right side of history and to preserve something of the old normal during the time that is to come. We cannot control what is going to happen, only the way we choose to live and die, and maybe some of us will be able to take our place alongside the greatest generation (who have been so cruelly deprived of their commemorations these last two years).
glory glory what a hell of a way to at DuckDuckGo
There is only one way to stop it, rejection of digital technology, & that’s not going to happen, society won’t do that willingly & there is no compromise, it’s either a new digital era, GMO humans etc. or the break-down of civilization!
Civilizations come & go but maybe Homo sapiens won’t survive the collapse of this one, I’d like to say it was fun while it lasted, but it wasn’t! Not for me anyway.
Technology isn’t the cause of this but it is definitely the means. The root cause is mass stupidity of the masses being exploited by the sickeningly greedy untouchables (Gates and friends). Education is the solution.
Very depressing, but probably true. It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to change it though.
Sadly I agree: never thought it would reach this point though!
Despite all government interventions, the SARS-2 epidemic is coming to an end. Now is the time not to rejoice, but to start building gallows. The countless people murdered by government lockdown polices and gene therapy coercion must have justice.
Don’t rush to the gallows. We can only hang these bastards once, and it’s over far too quickly.
March them through the towns and cities. Chained at the neck. Dressed in clown suits. BYO tomatoes.
Give them a year or two of that, and then we can start working on our noose knots.
Gallows is too quick. Lock them up, three to a small room (three so that the other two will always be ganging up against one), ‘cared for’ by NHS fiends, perpetually muzzled, jabbed once a day, subjected to loud covvie propaganda 24/7, never allowed visits from anybody, and knowing it’s for life.
Now THAT’S punishment! Damn it Annie, you make me feel like an amateur.
I can think of several appropriate punishments. In particular it would be fitting to feed a certain American villain to sandflies for six months before euthanasia (like he did to beagles and monkeys just for kicks).
Oh I nearly forgot.. surgically cut his vocal cord first so he doesn’t annoy anyone with his cries. And they say monsters aren’t real.
From the puppet’s own mouth:
Let’s go, Brandon – Biden Agrees With ‘Let’s Go Brandon’! – Liberals Take Notice – YouTube
Is there an equivalent for “super” Mario Draghi who is currently setting about ruining sport in Italy?
In fact it’s looking like new shots every three months now! Anyone doing stickers of that list?
And people might have guessed the last one given this article from 2014 about Pfizer and AZ:
Revealed: Big Pharma’s hidden links to NHS policy, with senior MPs saying medical industry uses ‘wealth to influence government’ | The Independent | The Independent
And this:
Big Pharma lobbyists exploit patients and doctors | The Independent | The Independent
ITEM #1: “Avoid New Year’s parties, urges Irish health minister” – “People in Ireland should not hold household gatherings to mark New Year’s Eve amid a rise in Covid cases, the Chief Medical Officer has warned,” reports BBC News.
Must have got that idea from Downunder where South Australia’s Chief Health Moron, Nicola Spurrier, has urged South Australians to stay at home and have the “quietest ever” New Year’s Eve: “I want this to be the absolute quietest New Year’s Eve anybody has ever had. You can still make a bit of noise by yourself, I fully intend to do that on my own veranda,” she told a radio station. “You can meet up with people on Zoom” if you really must gather in numbers, she added.
People will be incentivised by much tighter limitations placed on hospitality venue capacity whilst also capping home gatherings to ten masked people. We were all becoming too complacent about the virus but the ‘Professor’ has fixed that by ruining New Years eve for the population. Well done, Prof.
Phil
Adelaide
She really needs to start grabbing balls again.
Dateline Quebec
…and rarely have I seen him this distressed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmNKZ6W4zLM
They haven’t controlled a virus, they’ve controlled us. Science has shown just how impotent it really is, they don’t even seem to have learnt how to effectively treat the common cold let alone covid! Scientists have achieved exactly nothing over the last 20 months other than fuck the economy, inflation is just the start of what’s to come.
It’s not all bad news, if you’re one of the elite, Because a tiny number of billionaires have doubled their wealth!
Well, that term scientists of course needs quote marks!
Cruise Ships Exposed COVID Fearmongering Deception In 2020 And Expose Vaccine Efficacy Deception Now
I am quite amused but not so surprised by the story:
“SCIENTISTS MYSTIFIED, WARY, AS AFRICA AVOIDS COVID DISASTER
After all, it was blindingly obvious to me and many I spoke to back in March/ April 2020 that this was primarily a disease of the old, and Africa would be less affected on account of that.
it is sometimes difficult to overestimate the stupidity of experts, or as Richard Feynman put it: “Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts”
I think they are just pretending to be mystified.
I’m not clever enough to properly understand Feynman’s contribution to science, but as an explainer and an exponent of true scientific thinking he was in a class of his own. Not forgetting the work he did on the Space Shuttle disaster where he battled against an establishment that seemed keener on covering things up than discovering the truth (sound familiar?).
Feynman’s diagrams for representing equations in quantum mechanics were a very useful invention.
2 pounds for every pound that it costs. What an absolute numpty that woman is. Labour should have her in their sights for Diane Abbott replacement.
Ah, a headline from the Daily Telegraph, that’s behind a pay-wall. Where the sheep can go and pay to have the propaganda pumped into them.
They’re a bit like the snobs that won’t go to their local Nag’s Head for a glass of wine. Instead, they’d rather be seen in the Lady of The Grapes wine bar, where they pay 60% more for their glasses of wine, and believe because it’s dearer it tastes better.
The paying DT readers probably believes the spiel they consume there is of better quality than the free stuff they’d get on Nag’s Head outlets like the Guardian.
This is the post that got Dr. Malone @RWMaloneMD banned on Twitter, that means we should all share it!
https://www.canadiancovidcarealliance.org/media-resources/the-pfizer-inoculations-for-covid-19-more-harm-than-good-2/
Anybody would think that the lateral flow tests are essential to life.
Along with my fellow sceptics, why on earth would you take a test for a cold?
According to the MSM, the country is in dire trouble because people (and I use the term lightly) are panicking because pharmacists and chemists are out of stock.
My younger son(the only other sceptic in the family) who works at Wilco had a customer who with a perfectly straight face asked him if Wilco’s sold the test kits.
Try Greggs, Macdonalds,KFC?
I’ll retire to Bedlam, AGAIN!