The West has responded to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in three main ways: pouring arms into Ukraine to buttress the country’s defence; imposing heavy sanctions on Russia to cripple its economy; and essentially ‘cancelling’ Russia by shutting down its foreign media, censoring its cultural exports, and banning its athletes from international competitions.
The hope seems to be that either one of three things will happen: the Russians will be defeated or forced to withdraw; Putin will be overthrown in a palace coup or popular uprising; or he’ll be brought to the negotiating table and made to accept terms highly unfavourable to Russia. While this strategy may work, I’ve yet to read a cogent defence of it.
In fact, the strategy could have a number of negative second-order effects – i.e., unintended consequences – that haven’t been properly thought through.
As several people have observed, the West’s response seems to have been slapped together on the fly amidst a storm of social media outrage, as opposed to being carefully devised after consideration of all possible eventualities. One Substack commenter noted:
Just as COVID-19 is the first pandemic in the Age of Twitter, so the Ukraine invasion is, in some sense, the first war in the Age of Twitter. As it unfolds, we are seeing many disturbing parallels to the events of early 2020. People are rapidly normalising once-fringe ideas like a NATO-enforced no-fly zone, direct U.S. conflict with Russia, regime change in Moscow, and even, incredibly, the use of nuclear weapons. Just as with Covid, we’re seeing the rapid abandonment of longstanding Western policies. The overnight flips on German defence spending and SWIFT are like the overturning of conventional public health policies on masking, lockdowns, and so on.
Let’s deal with each aspect of the Western response in turn. Pouring arms into Ukraine may precipitate a Russian defeat. But it could just as easily prolong the conflict, leading to many more Ukrainian deaths. The Syrian civil war has dragged on for more than ten years and claimed more than 400,000 lives, in part thanks to external arming of rebel groups.
If there’s a good chance the Ukrainians can win, supplying them with arms makes sense. But if they’re unlikely to prevail, why would we want to prolong the conflict?
One possible answer is to deter the next autocratic ruler from launching a similar invasion. But how much deterrence does supplying arms really achieve, especially if Russia ends up winning? Now, entering the war on Ukraine’s side – that would achieve deterrence, but it’s something the West isn’t willing to do (for obvious reasons).
What about imposing heavy sanctions on Russia to cripple its economy? This could prompt a palace coup or popular uprising, leading to Putin’s downfall. But what then? Whoever replaced him could be just as belligerent as he is – or more so. Russia’s President is unlikely to be supplanted by a liberal-minded democrat.
And there’s a potentially much worse outcome than Putin being toppled and replaced. His ouster could leave a power vacuum, with different factions scrambling to take control of the state apparatus. While calm might soon be restored, what if it wasn’t? We don’t want anarchy or civil war in country armed with thousands of nukes.
Another possibility is that crushing sanctions bring Putin to the negotiating table, where he accepts terms highly unfavourable to Russia. And this might work – eventually. But rather than simply giving in, Putin might retaliate with sanctions of his own. And these could be quite injurious. A lesson of economics is that both parties lose from a trade war.
You might say that it’s worth it to halt Putin’s invasion. But what if the sanctions don’t halt Putin’s invasion? Then we’ve simply cratered Russia’s economy, and to a lesser extent those of the West, for no material gain. (Meanwhile, China’s economy will continue growing apace.)
Furthermore, sanctions imposed on Russia could have unintended long-term consequences. One unprecedented step we have taken is to freeze overseas assets owned by Russia’s central bank, while cutting off access to the SWIFT payment system. There’s no doubt this hurts Russia in the short-term, and probably the medium-term too.
But how will this affect other countries’ decisions about where to invest in the future? Will they not be more wary of putting money in the West, knowing that their assets could be frozen at any moment? Granted, we’re in exceptional circumstances. But these kind of downstream effects shouldn’t be discounted.
Another issue is the inconsistency of Western policy. Why are we backing the Saudi bombing campaign in Yemen with one hand, while we seek to cripple Russia’s economy with the other? There’s already evidence that Western media coverage is perceived as racist – that we care less about Middle Eastern deaths because the people there don’t look like us.
Finally, by doubling down on the policies that got us here in the first place, we’re simply driving Russia into the arms of China. You might say this is a price we have to pay to punish Russia’s aggression, and you might be right. But remember that Russia is a declining power, whereas China is the West’s only ‘peer competitor’.
So what should we do instead? Though I don’t claim to have all the answers, one thing we could have tried is offering conditional concessions at the war’s outset.
As soon as Putin’s tanks rolled across the border, why didn’t we suggest ruling out NATO membership for Ukraine, and recognising the three breakaway regions, on the condition that Russia immediately withdraw its forces. ‘Then we’d be rewarding Russia’s aggression,’ comes the reply. And I suppose that’s true.
But if the choice is between ‘rewarding Russia’s aggression’ and watching lots of people get slaughtered in a war, perhaps the former is the lesser evil – especially since the ultimate geopolitical outcome could be the same in both cases (i.e., Russia controlling parts of Ukraine).
It’s possible this plan would have been dead on arrival. Putin might have simply rebuffed us, and pressed on with his invasion. But the fact it wasn’t even considered doesn’t inspire confidence in our leaders, who appear to be more concerned with looking ‘tough’ than preventing bloodshed.
At the very least, they could explain what their current policy aims to achieve, and why the various risks I’ve highlighted can be safely ignored.


Discussion
Comments
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What about Russia army advancing ‘cautiously’ to minimize impact on civilians and then get the Ukraine, as a whole or partially, back in their arms?
Considering the mediocre policy of the international coalition in Libya, Afghanistan, ex-Jugoslavia, I think it’s time to re-evaluate the criteria for wage war against a sovereign state.
I do not support the invasion.
However, it is super clear that the west has provoked this by manipulating Ukrainian politics, arming the country and emboldening Zelensky to poke the bear. There has also been a civil war in place over the past eight years in which I believe 8,000 people already died, no doubt enabled with western arms too. The Minsk Accords were never implemented either.
The possibility of Ukraine acquiring nuclear weapons that was raised at the Munich Security Conference and not repudiated by the western powers may have been the final tipping point.
Russia really does see NATO as an aggressive alliance. We may disagree but the US led western alliance has a track record of waging aggressive war far from home: for example in Serbia, Libya, Afghanistan, Somalia, Syria and Iraq. All of these have led to serious losses of civilian lives and Great Britain provides the arms too for the Saudis to keep bombing Yemen. We may say these “interventions” were all justified but a less sympathetic party may disagree. Putin has had his share of interventions too but there is no absolute good and absolute evil here.
In an ideal world Ukraine could choose… Read more »
So, do you disapprove of the invasion?
i do not think that you can expect a russian agent to answer that question.
i must say is has become a lot harder to spot the russian operatives like stephensceptic.
they are getting quite good at wrapping their message in benign sounding wordings.
I do not approve of the invasion.
I am not a Russian operative.
I did study Russian History at Oxford under an eminent Sovietologist.
Many years ago.
Painting people who disagree with you and use logic as enemy agents is quite infantile.
exactly what a russian operative would claim now isn’t it?
i recall the cuban missile crisis.
ships carrying the missiles were actually on their way to cuba in the atlantic and where in fact quite near cuba.
now where are the missiles that are supposed to be placed in ukraine?
on a ship in the atlantic?
maybe even on a truck driving across europe on its way to ukraine?
where are they?
you have studied the third reich in detail?
and you can see no comparison?
let me help you .
both hitler and putin are sociopaths.
both hitler and putin do see no harm in betraying the given word.
hitler betrayed the english and the french and putin betrayed the ukrainians.
hitler invaded sovereign countries and putin invaded sovereign countries.
how is the weather in st petersburg?
you better go tell your boss wladimir that you need another assignment….
how is the weather in st petersburg?
you better go ask your boss wladimir for a new assignment.
Surely it makes sense to stop the bloodshed and negotiate a settlement where Russia is not seen to lose and the pro-Russian Ukrainians can again be part of Russia. That would be to redraw the eastern border of Ukraine further to the west and ensure all parties agreed the new border position in perpetuity. This could in my opinion have been negotiated before the fighting started and although probably what neither party wanted at the time, but the Ukrainians now I’m pretty certain would have taken it, instead of the destruction of their country and killing of innocent civillians which is happening now and Putin’s popularity cannot be improved by the significant number of his soldiers going home in body bags.
In any event it would be best if the Americans made a better attempt to live alongside Russia. Part of the problem in America is that they are driven by arms companies chasing profits at any expense to the world. War, the heavier the better in Europe suits them so they can sell more armaments and encourage their government and others that they need more of them.
This situation is similar to the big pharma companies chasing their profits… Read more »
Reluctantly, I increasingly agree that the US Military Industrial Complex is no doubt playing a role to drive an aggressive US policy.
Eisenhower predicted precisely this back in the 50s and he argued that an informed citizenry was the only answer.
Instead, the government has got better at propagandising the citizenry as much of the commentary here suggests.
Did you notice the “negotiations” before the invasion? Perhaps you could look at the Russian demands. They never intended to negotiate.
you do appreciate that russia guaranteed the “old” border when ukraine left the soviet union?
and that russia once before in 2014 already had invaded ukraine?
as always: remember flight mh 17
Not often on this bit – what a load of cows’ hit!
This article presumes that Russia is bad and Putin is evil. Putin was democratically elected twice and then again for a third time. Putin delivered a respectful speech to his citizens explaining why Russia had to carry out an incursion into Ukraine and the history leading up to this. Russia has tried to deal with the West for neatly 15 years regarding its concerns. All the Western leaders have mocked and belittled Putin and his beloved country.
Enter President Trump who understood the Russian concerns and also knew exactly that the Ukraine was corrupted by Obama and Clinton. The Laptop from Hell was released and then covered up by the Democrats and CIA. UK was deeply involved as was EU. To have such a large body of people determined to destroy your country in the way they destroyed Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, etc etc etc would make the you extremely angry. To insult your country by refusing to listen and then offer NATO membership to corrupt cartels whilst belittling your proud nation would drive anyone to war.
I am deeply ashamed that the West had bern hijacked by such evil people as Blair, Clinton, Obama, Bush, Cameron , Johnson… Read more »
“Putin was democratically elected twice and then again for a third time. “
WHAT PLANET ARE YOU FROM?
“I am deeply ashamed”
Well you should be…
What a disgustingly mendacious comment, made whilst Ukrainians (and Russian cannon-fodder) are dying. The Daily Sceptic is becoming The Daily Cesspit, a propaganda outlet for Putin fans.
and a paid troll like you, under both names.
As a matter of interest, what is my other name? And why am I being paid when it’s you that’s supporting your idol (& boss) Putin?
The word troll is one of the first they teach sceptics. It is to be used when someone asks for some justification, reason, truth or decent behaviour.
But really it just means you have a weak case and know it.
What exactly is disgusting about it? It is possible to not support the invasion but at the same understand the role the west has played in provoking it. That does not logically make someone a Putin lover.
The disgusting bit is describing Putin’s speech to the Russians as “respectful”. There’s nothing respectful about lying to your country in order to justify the unprovoked invasion of a neighbouring country, claiming that it was essential. Nothing bad would have happened if Russia hadn’t invaded.
It is possible to not support the invasion and understand. But that is not what the vast majority here are doing.
I challenge you to find posts, where someone says this invasion is wrong and appalling. BTW ” I don’t support” falls far short of condemning.
Secondly, when people universally reject MSM information, and just accepts the opposite, there can be no credibility.
Thirdly, it is becoming commonplace to attribute the blame for subsequent russian more brutal actions on Ukrainians putting up a defence.
We’ll put.
“his beloved country..”
that is where you broke character, comrad.
how is the weather in st petersburg?
better ask ÿour boss vladimir for another assignment.
and as always: remember flight mh 17.
Supplying weapons to Ukraine would be pointless if the Ukrainians were not prepared to risk their lives using them. But (and this must seem incomprehensible to Noah) the Ukrainians are actually really keen to fight for the continued existence of their homeland.
And that’s the whole point that Noah and all the Putin appeasers and apologists don’t get. It’s up to the Ukrainians to decide. Not Putin.
You really are clueless.
This is true, but ~1/2 of them are native Russian by heritage, the puppet government have been systematically waging a sectraian war againt them for 8 years, using actual Nazis to do it.
It’s not as simple as your little MSM programmed mind thinks it is.
No: you are really clueless. You assume that a Ukrainian of Russian heritage will automatically side with Putin. That is not the case – as proved by Zelensky.
That’s not what I said.
So, do you approve of Russia’s invasion?
YES or NO?
No.
Do you aprove of US and NATO instigating a coup, installing a puppet governement, provocong Russia into invading, instigating a sectrarian attack on it’s own population, murdering it’s own citizens for 8 years, murdering opposing journalists, censoring opposing TV stations, arresting politicians, banning the main oppersition political party, and funding Nazis, YES or NO?
Does that mean you condemn the invasion, or just abstain?
Does that mean you condemn US and NATO instigating a coup, installing a puppet governement, provocong Russia into invading, instigating a sectrarian attack on it’s own population, murdering it’s own citizens for 8 years, murdering opposing journalists, censoring opposing TV stations, arresting politicians, banning the main oppersition political party, and funding Nazis, YES or NO?
you seem to not appreciate that the russian invasion of ukraine is a fact that even you do accept as such.
while all you bring forward is not factual unless you do provide proof.
so you prove all the allegations you made and then you might demand an answer…
and in the meantime: remember mh 17
You say no….
But you blame the west for the invasion and also Russia censoring it’s journalists, arresting politicians, banning opposition political parties.
So can you explain why the Ukrainians are fighting so hard against Russian annexation?
Having a Russian heritage doesn’t mean they don’t like democracy, freedom and prosperity.
So keep to your principles of objection,,,
They’re fighting for their homeland, that doesn’t mean they support a puppet government, a government that is supporting Nazis that want to exterminate them. They voted againt NATO membership remember. They want democracy, Zelensky won’t let them have it.
It’s not black and white.
Stop telling me what my priciples of objection are, it’s arrogent and unbecomming.
@Leek @ AHotston Read and learn:
United Nation Forum on Human Rights, Democracy and the Rule of Law
Written statement on violations of human rights by Ukrainian Parliament.
https://www.ohchr.org/_layouts/15/WopiFrame.aspx?sourcedoc=/Documents/Issues/Democracy/Forum2018/UspishnaVarta_2.pdf&action=default&DefaultItemOpen=1
Do you back the Russian invasion yes or no?
No answer – he loves Putin.
you replied to him 3 mins after the post, don’t be a dick, I’m not here 24/7 like you paid trolls…
is that how long it took you to change screen names? BUSTED
Idiot. You can’t conceive that there might be two people who independently reach the conclusion that you are a contemptible appeasing maggot?
It’s a complex task, not taught at sceptics school.
Ever looked at zelensky’s election results?
and whom are they fighting against for their homeland?
i believe it to be the russians….
when did they vote against nato membership?
and even if they did, so what?
sure the nazis want to exterminate the ukrainians……….
how is the weather in st petersburg?
comrad, go ask your boss wladimir for a new assignment…
so let’s hand ukraine to putin.
and why stop there?
latvia, lithuania,estonia?
but why stop there?
poland, ?
but why stop there?
all of western europe?
we do not know what would have happened if chamberlain and daladier hadn’t given sudetenland to hitler.
we do know what happened after they did though…
and as always: remember flight MH 17 !
All three predictions will not happen at all.
What most people don’t know is that international jewry has planned a WW3 back in the 19th century; what we are seeing is a deliberate engineered ‘crisis’ illusion in order to continue to prepare the right conditions to unleash that WW3.
And no, I’m not making things up, Lenin also mentioned that 19th plan to engineer 3 world wars – google it.
Understand that nation’s leaders are only puppets who obey a script given to them by characters well above their heads, characters which are intermediaries between the jewish bankers and nation’s leaders.
I got enough quotations to prove all the above…
Is it Mental Health Week, or something?
Yep, I understand – the truth is stranger than fiction.
Maybe you should read “The Hidden Tyranny” with Harold Rosenthal… or even the “protocols of the Elders of Zion”… or “The Jewish Utopia”…
Gen. Albert Pike, American Freemasonic Pontifex, vision received in 15th August, 1871:
– “ The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the “agentur” [agents] of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions…
– ” The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained… Read more »
A Friend In Need Is A Friend Indeed.
PART ONE. A few days ago I was sitting at home breathing a sigh of relief that it looked like our village had put Covid behind us when I saw something alarming on our neighbourhood watch RING video security system. There was a gang of men surrounding our next-door neighbour’s house.
Then the phone rang. It was my neighbour Bob. “High Tom, you might have noticed we have a problem” he said. “A heavily armed group of thugs from the village down the road have surrounded us and demanded we hand over our home to them.They say they used to own the home and now want it back! We are short on guns and ammo, so would you mind sending some over?”
It occurred to me that this threat had been with us for a while, and that maybe we had been short sighted in not building better relations with the village these guys came from. Indeed, we may have miscalculated and been over aggressive in expanding our own village boundary.
Still, when a neighbour is under attack, don’t we have a moral duty to help out?
“Sure Bob” I replied. “Of course we’ll do what we can, but are you sure fighting back is a smart idea? They have more men… Read more »
Did your neighbour enjoy the company of Nazis?
Did your neighbour let the Nazis kill and terrorise his annoying step kids?
Did your neighbor rule his household with an iron fist, putting his wife in a locked room so she didn’t argue with him?
Did your neighbour run drugs and traffic women through his house?
Did the gang that came to his house armed ever try to negotiate?
Did your neighbour invite his friends who had nukes to come and live them threatening the armed thugs?
Nonsensical isn’t it?
Do some research.
PART 2.“Thanks Tom. While you’re at it, could you also put someeconomic pressure on the village these thugs have come from. Make sure that they struggle to finance and feed these bandits. It might not make much a difference in the long run, but it will make it harder for them. Who knows, maybe the rest of their village will have second thoughts about their aggression? We know their Mayor isn’t the most popular guy, and maybe they’ll turn on him.”
That didn’t seem an unreasonable request. It would mean a little hardship for us, but nothing we can’t handle. After all, a neighbour in need is a Neigbour indeed!
As Bob hung up, he left me with some parting words. “Every little bit of help and hope helps Tom. We are just not willing to roll over and let these bastards win. Frankly we’d rather die defending our home and our honor.”
It was hard to argue with that, although I was sure some of others in our neighbourhood watch group would still play armchair quarterback. Hindsight is a wonderful luxury to have, but Bob and his family were under attack and had asked for our help. They knew the risk and wanted to take it. So we started getting some arms over the fence and had everyone else in our group… Read more »
Pitiful stuff.
Not sure why you bother with this, well written as it is, in itself.
Basically, you craft a scenario that incorporates all your misconceptions about reality and then seem to think there’s some significance in the fact that it makes your preferred course of action seem the only decent thing possible.
Here’s the thing. The Russians are not expansionist bad guys, they are just a country seeking security just as we would if we were in their shoes, dealing with a problem that has been imposed upon them by a far more powerful rival exploiting and promoting old hatreds together with greed for the greater wealth that rival has.
That’s the reality you would probably grasp if you had actually been closely watching events unfold over the past couple of decades, rather than getting your ideas fed to you by a grossly biased and dishonest mass media and social media, manipulated by a ruling elite and intel agency “deep state” that is heavily corrupt and invested in pushing confrontation (see for instance the extremely well resourced and connected Russiagate and novichok propaganda operations).
“What has surprised me most are the keyboard warriors who want to undermine not just our efforts to help, but are dismissive… Read more »
We can all chip in for your ticket over there to fight if you like Clive, you’ll get a free AK, and if you live through it we’ll get you an “I’m not a hypocrite” plaque to put on the wall.
Make sure to head off to the Eastern Boarder so you can see the kind of people you’ll be fighting with, though I doubt you’d really want to wear their insignia, also talk to the people who’ve been experiencing the artillery raining down on their children for the last 8 years and see how they feel about this “invasion”, that’s the people you’ll be shooting at, and on the way back visit Odessa to talk to the people who witnessed the massacre in The Trade Union House since you seem unable to comprehend anything that happened prior to two weeks ago, you’d be shooting at them too.
in short: Don’t be like Bob.
You are wrong about the “keyboard warriors”.. They are actually cheerleaders for the Mayor and the thugs. According to them Bob has it coming and will happily see the next house attacked also.
All this because they teach each other what to believe, suspend reason abandon morals and shout from a place of hiding..
I wonder why Toby himself decided to distance himself from such appalling one-sidedness of British media
“As soon as Putin’s tanks rolled across the border, why didn’t we suggest ruling out NATO membership for Ukraine, and recognising the three breakaway regions, on the condition that Russia immediately withdraw its forces. ‘Then we’d be rewarding Russia’s aggression,’ comes the reply. And I suppose that’s true.”
That makes Russia sound like a spoiled child who keeps demanding sweets.
In the case of Donetsk and Luhansk there has been military conflict in those areas for several years. The “contact” line is a long way inside them in both cases. Sanctions against the Ukrainian government would be in order.
In the case of Crimea, the annexation (which came after a legitimate referendum) should have been recognised years ago and could be recognised now, unconditionally, and a serious antiwar opposition in any current NATO member state would make this point.
Zelensky has spoken to 280 US congressmen (of both parties) asking the US to send warplanes and drones for use against the Russian armed forces.
Is this what happens next – if Joseph Biden and Antony Blinken drag their feet, a phone call gets made and Congress is told to put a boot up them?
There are a number of ongoing indications that certain forces are pushing for nuclear war.
These include the combination of media talk of “offering Putin a golden bridge” with twisting every damned thing he says as if it’s a threat to unleash nukes. In itself – in what’s actually written – this wouldn’t be a window on much, and it wouldn’t be paid great attention by Russian analysts. It’s only what the rulers of the west say to their sheeple. But insofar as that’s what it is, it looks very much like preparing the said sheeple for nuclear war, all to be blamed on wicked Vladimir “Bond film” Putin. Not to put pressure on Putin (because it doesn’t do that), but in reality.
And this would explain a lot of what the past two years have been about, from lockdown to the lowering of expectations… Read more »
Is Zelensky the worst head of government in a European country in recent times?
He has complained that he is Russia’s number 1 target. That may or may not be true, but the sooner this wretch is removed from office the better – for Ukraine, Russia, Europe, and the world.
“Is Zelensky the worst head of government in a European country in recent times?”
Possibly but the class is already full.
Pathetic!
Russia has just stuffed ‘the West’ by going onto the Gold Standard -India will trade with Russia using rupees – the dollar is now on borrowed time. The Bovine stupidity of Woke Western Leadership and Media is exposed – Parvenu Featherweight Truss lectures veteran Lavrov ( probably the most experienced Foreign Minister in the world ) and tells him (priceless moment) Rostov is in Ukraine – the World laughs!
All the sanctions ( aka economic warfare) against Russia we will be paying dearly for and have started to already – it seems our “leaders” are more interested in suppressing us and ruining our lives to serve the Great Reset than they are in ‘standing off’ Russia.
41% of the world’s population are represented by countries that supported Russia over the Ukraine (not seen on the BBC!). Chew on that one- Barry, Sleepy Joe and Donna Pelosi
According to Truss, the Russians didn’t like what she had to say. More likely, they wished the British had sent someone a bit less dense.
Dunno what parvenu has got to do with it. Non-parvenu hereditary peer Peter Carrington once spoke about Bucharest as if it were the capital of Hungary.
Any idea what that painting is that Lavrov and Truss gave their press conference standing in front of?
The Deplatforming of A Nation State
https://news.gab.com/2022/03/04/the-deplatforming-of-a-nation-state/
MARCH 4, 2022
The entire nation state of Russia is getting the “Gab treatment” by Big Tech and the globalist regime.
By that I mean they are being systematically purged from the internet all within the span of about a week.
Yesterday Gab engineers discovered a massive anti-Russian botnet on our platform, which we immediately banned. There were hundreds of newly created accounts all sharing the same dozen or so IP addresses. They were reposting, commenting, and liking anti-Russian fake news to the Gab Explore page. Our bot detection systems caught them quickly and we removed them from the platform.
This type of activity is eerily similar to CENTCOM’s Operation Earnest Voice. We have no proof who was behind this activity, all we know is what their agenda was: promoting anti-Putin and anti-Russian propaganda. Gab is not a platform for state-backed PSYOP campaigns. We’re not going to allow this coordinated inauthentic activity to take place in our community, not from foreign state actors and not from our own government.
We also aren’t going to ban a foreign news outlet or Russian citizens for no reason. RT News has been on Gab for over a… Read more »
Russia just criminalized “disinformation” about the “special operation” violators face up to 15 year prison terms. 😮
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/russian-military-offensive-in-ukraine-4:7
Back in the day, electric typewriters in the USSR had special circuitry in them to communicate what was typed on them to the KGB. In today’s world they call this “the internet”.
How did they do that without some sort of WiFi network?
With ingenuity. The used typewriter ribbons were collected and sent to the KGB which painstakingly reconstructed everything typed using that ribbon. Great job.
Appreciating these articles. Even more than ever, Daily Sceptic and Off-Guardian first ports of call for thoughtful commentary on world events.
Don’t forget TCW Defending Freedom and the always excellent UK Column News.
It certainly is a serious situation. Russia is a nuclear superpower, whilst America is a nucular superpower. I have never understood the difference in the two weapon sets, it is probably a state secret anyway. If I was forced to guess, I would surmise that whilst a nuclear bomb unleashes death, destruction and nuclear winter, a nucular bomb does all the above but also unleashes an impenetrable cloud of ideology and malapropism.
And missing letters.
ITV: “Putin threatens war on any third party creating Ukraine no-fly zone“.
What a choice of phrase “third party” is, for a power that flies its war planes to defend A’s airspace when A is at war with B!
Nobody should forget: a NATO NFZ in Ukraine means NATO bombing air bases in Russia – assuming the NATO planes manage to get into the sky before their own bases are bombed.
According to what I could gather from the web, the NATO has 22 planes in the area. That’s not exactly much to establish air superiority over a territory about 2.5 times as large as the UK, hence, it’s inconceivable that there’ll be any left for entirely pointless bombing tourism in Russia.
And then, armchair strategists who still haven’t learnt that strategic bombing doesn’t work (it’s the military equivalent of car drivers honking their horns to express their anger) don’t get to make such decisions.
Riddle for advanced thinkers: How come the NATO maintains a no fly zone for Russian war planes over the territory of its member statement without bombing Russia?
It’s being widely reported in alt media Zelensky has fled, taking up refuge in the US embassy in Poland:
https://thewarsan.com/ukrainian-president-zelensky-flees-to-poland/
Ukrainian MP Ilya Kiva says Zelensky has left Ukraine and is at the US embassy in Poland.
https://odysee.com/@ChangingTimes:4/ZELENSKY-HAS-LEFT-UKRAINE-AND-IS-AT-THE-US-EMBASSY-IN-POLAND:3
Ilya Kiva picture seems to match on image search, but can’t confirm the translation, can anyone translate?
The only thing this really shows is that there’s no qualitative difference between people agitating for and against Corona politics: This article is exactly the same kind of fear-mongering whatiffery about the unknown future which used to be used for justifying lockdowns etc. It’s also just another repetition of Let’s give the Russians what they want by ethnically cleansing Ukraine! Ukrainians don’t matter. If we tell them to stop fighting and just suck up to it, they surely will!
That’s the same breath-taking arrogance the head harpyie of New Zealand also shows towards people who get in her way. The Ukrainian government may – with considerable support from the population – have decided that it wants to fight the Russian invasion. But Big Nanny USA thinks that’s just not good for them.
Even though there is a good case for saying that Western policy towards Russia and in Ukraine, has been a mess, and has contributed to the current situation, even if, pre-invasion, there is a fair case for saying that Russia’s view that Ukrainian NATO membership posed a threat is legitimate, the proposed solution here goes too far in simply conceding that tanks can strategically roll into neighbouring sovereign territory with more or less complete impunity.
Completely agree that no fly zone talk is extremely dangerous and stupid, as is much of the excitable tub thumping and nuclear fearmongering on the broadcast news. But I think the current response is, in a very difficult situation, a reasonable one. I don’t think there’s any reason to suppose that Ukraine would have agreed to the suggested terms – it seemed pretty clear beforehand that they were determined to resist, as is their right. I also don’t think that there’s any reason to suppose that Putin would have been happy to stop at three regions – his rambling speech shortly before the war began and his national destiny nonsense about Russians and Ukrainians being one people (a proposition most Ukrainians plainly don’t agree… Read more »
So you’re suggesting Putin should have done nothing? Just let Ukraine – a corrupt, volatile state full of neo-Nazi paramilitaries and a puppet leader – join NATO and potentially have nuclear weapons on the border?
And that would have been the way to promote peace….?
“simply conceding that tanks can strategically roll into neighbouring sovereign territory with more or less complete impunity.”
The point that you miss here is that the established international position is precisely that tanks can strategically roll into [or bombers and missiles can strategically attack] neighbouring [or otherwise within reach] sovereign territory with more or less complete impunity. “Complete impunity” is exactly what was achieved by Blair and Clinton in Yugoslavia, Bush and Blair in Iraq, Cameron and Obama in Libya and in Syria etc.
Those actions established that there would be no practical consequences for waging aggressive, illegal wars of choice provided you were acting in alignment with the interests of the dominant power.
That’s unacceptable for anyone not prepared to kowtow to said dominant power.
By claiming to be standing up for a law (or supposed moral code) which there is not even a pretence of the dominant power following, you are in practice not standing up for a law or code in any sense, merely for another tool of domination for said dominant power.
The Russians quite rightly have said: ok we’ve been complaining about you ignoring the rules for decades and you’ve ignored both us and the… Read more »
Class.
You are shit at spelling too…
The following statement is absolutely cretinous:
“The Ukraine invasion is, in some sense, the first war in the Age of Twitter.”
The same idea appears in the scribbling in the Independent by my top nomination for the 2022 Idiot of the Year prize, Ahmed Aboudouh:
“Ukraine has won the information war over Russia but that could prove a problem”.
That kind of idiocy can only be written by a person who doesn’t understand the meaning of the term “information war”, or, for that matter, “war” – the kind of person who lives on Sh*tter and Faecebook, as most journalists do nowadays.
The home population in A is not keen on the leadership in B. Ooh-er! So the f*** what? Would you expect them to be? That doesn’t mean B has lost either in the information war or in any other domain of warfare. Was Russia dependent on support from Twitter users in the west?
Mr Aboudouh’s Sh*tter and Faecebook friends think Putin is an a*sehole. Putin won’t be invited to Ascot this year. No address to the Commons for him. No invitation for a slap-up dinner at an Oxford college will ever be winging its way to Putin now. I… Read more »
The declining powers, in this order, are:
The USA – completely insolvent and bankrupt – you put interest rates up to 4% and the USA is finished. Europe – quadrupling energy prices is the ultimate act of financial insanity and it is due to taking orders from the USA, not through making sensible policy decisions. The EU has showed in its first major test that it has no raison d’etre. Its functionaries hate europeans and are slaves to Americans. That’s a compelling reason for breaking up the EU right now. Russia – the assumption here is that Russia will not evolve as its oil, gas and minerals revenues start to decline. The timescale of that decline is far from clear and it is already clear that major upticks in agriculture and weaponry have started to diversify the Russian economy. There is zero reason why further significant diversifications cannot take place. The West needs to remove its obsession with GDP as a measure of prosperity – anyone who has ever analysed restructuring of loss-making conglomerates into profitable organisations turning over 30-50% of previous revenues knows that economic health is not primarily tied to GDP.
I don’t find this article particularly… Read more »
Agreed about GDP and prosperity, but the following comparison is useful:
And which is the currency of choice for – lets say a good proportion – of non US populations?
Your figures for Russian debt:GDP are out of date, and getting worse, as soon as you type your financially illiterate tripe.
2 Europe’s banking system is the most out of balance in the planet. It won’t take much of a slide in corporate yields, which are all but inevitable with the rise in inout prices, the capitalisation of these banks will require bailouts and bail ins.
The Euro is probably going to be one of the shortest experiments in a multinational currency ever seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH_2ts68bUE&ab_channel=TheDuran
Russia’s strategy in Ukraine follows Syria model
Latest instalment from the Duran on the ukraine crisis.
No Russia Today – cut off.
Anyone able to find a link for me?
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd?view=content
Wow thanks, I could not bear having my information blocked. I felt outraged!!!!
If it’s nothing else, this business serves as a superb smokescreen for various nefarious acts. Information from “eugyppius” in Germany, is that Lauterbach, the Health Minister there, is preparing to rush and push a draconian Covid “containment” law through their parliament, with a 70 minute guillotine on the debate of it.
lauterbach , the corrupt nutcase. ( both designations being quite accurate)
and with the state germany is in, and that has nothing to do with ukraine, he might even succeed.
but then again, germany, the country were nazism was invented…
An interesting parallel between our half-arsed response to the ‘pandemic’ and this one to Russia’s aggressive move. One conclusion might be that our ‘leaders’ are mostly half-arsed.
I would appreciate your definition of “half-arsed.”
Ever wondered why the vast majority of Ukrainian refugees are heading west rather than into Russia?
Same reason African and Middle Eastern refugees are fleeing France and crossing the Channel in rubber dinghies? Do I get a prize?
Ever wondered why hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have left Donbas for Russia since 2014?
any proof for that?
Leek’s learnt to sealion
Give it a medal
Ah, the resident single down-ticker that used to call him-/her-/it-self “rational” has reappeared with its new handle, “leek”.
How long will this bout of ineffectual trolling last until you get frustrated enough to change your handle yet again and retry under a new pseudonym?
For anyone that’s interested, leek isn’t your regular type troll, this poor fool actually wants to be taken seriously. He’s highly narcissistic to the point of having a personality disorder, I’d reckon he’s of the type that suffers from a paraphilia and attempts hide it under the guise of being transgender.
He really does, though, want to convert people on here to what he assumes are the correct beliefs. His narcissism can’t handle it when he inevitably fails and he then slinks off and creates a new pseudonym for himself. You can tell by the simplistic way he rationalises and responds that he is mentally underdeveloped.
Anyway, for you to have been on here as “rational” making an utter idiot of yourself and now to be back as “leek” engaging in the same idiocy? It seems you don’t have one shred of dignity or shame.
Keep going… perhaps you will overheat and self-combust..
well, it takes one to notice one?
you sir, are a narcissist pur sang.
with a touch of megalomania sprinkled in.
in short: a royal pain in the ass.
what you do not seem to get, is that leek is not trying to convince you.
he probably knows that is an impossibility. your narcissism…
what he does do is to expose you for the sorry excuse for a human being that you are.
and i have decided to spend him a helping hand in doing so.
Refugees normally go in a direction away from the battlefront and advancing forces.
Because they don’t know you are here.
How come there is not a single rational voice in the UK parliament to actually come up with a feasible plan to stop this madness asap. All have fallen to hysteria based on fake and half fake stories about bad Russians and good Ukrainians. Invasion is bad and the most blame is on Putin, but It started long ago (with NATOs/west involvement as well) and ended with a horrible war in the heart of Europe.
Who invaded????
When and where? Are we talking about 6th June 1944? Or 22 June 1941?
February 2022..
none so blind than those that will not see?
you know damn well when and were.
but you do not like the answer, now do you?
11 out of 13 in favour of the invasion.
you can ask but you will never get an answer….
Quite astonishing to see the extent that the vast majority of comments are in favour of the invasion of Ukraine and the mass murder it involves…
Why do you say this stuff??? Well quite simply because you feel compelled to disbelieve absolutely everything mainstream channels tell you.
It’s quite a pathetic way to arrive at your damaging and offensive opinions.
The only positive thing is that there are so few of you and no sane people take you seriously.
Offensive?
How long have you been in the offence mob?
What are you doing here?
Does disagreeing with the simplistic propaganda of the West mean you support violence?
So you admit you just disagree with what you are told.
Your colleagues tell you what to think and you go along with it.
Just have a look at the comments.. you all just repeat each other over and over again.
And you repeat the inane ramblings of Biden, Harris and that fat owl, Bunter Johnson.
Again, you just reject everything.. It’s what your tribe does.
My “tribe”? Are you some kind of racist? Hey, if you are then the Azov Battalion has a place for you in its ranks.
Oh yes, let’s see if we can rustle up his fare.
You are mixing up the meaning of different words. Tribe and race are different you know. Go and look them up..
Well he would, wouldn’t he? He’s paid to do that, but it’s hard to get decent staff, clearly.
You will find that I don’t repeat anything.
Perhaps you are saying the invasion hasn’t happened.
What is the difference between what you state immediately above and your regurgitation of the Lavrov School of Ethics…?
What you are all saying is it’s not Putin’s fault. It is that simple!
Obviously he has started an invasion and is killing and planning to kill many more and acquire another country…..
It’s the fault of the West, what don’t you understand. Do you blame Churchill for D Day?
Everything is either black or white to you, there is no in-between. BBC GOOD, Guardian GOOD, everything else BAD.
By the way, why do you end your sentences with an inordinate series of periods, such as this: Obviously he has started an invasion and is killing and planning to kill many more and acquire another country…..
I know from experience that people who pepper their scribblings with random periods are apt to suffer from personality disorders. Why do you do it?
Are these five needless periods supposed to make your comment look intellectual, or are they simply decorative?
Sometimes people see this in a text […] and whilst not knowing what it stands for, thinks it looks cool. Is this you? Do you think that a random series of full-stops makes you look cool?
Glad I annoy you……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
blatant lie that russian forces target civilian objects and nuclear plants is making this conflict much worse. It feeds hysteria.
Blatant lie by who??
100% of commenters deny that russian forces target civilian objects and nuclear plants.
14/17 in support the invasion.
Judging by the comments, it seem most excuse the violence, using Kremlin Rhetoric. Some might call this Russian propaganda.
i don’t think anyone here is in favour. but in order to stop this you need to see the full picture including how it started. Western MSM is failing people once again.
How it started is not difficult to understand. Putin decided to attach a country that is not threatening Russia. The pathetic reasoning he stated is nonsense, but all you idiots swallow it, and blame not-Russia.
Who is doing the invading??????? Blame that party.
Ukraine was behaving like a de facto NATO member with a lot of weapons sent by the west and taking part in joint missions (there are plenty of evidence if you bother looking beside BBC). this weaponry is wreaking havoc in the eastern breakaway regions (although kind of artificial and created by Russia). The fact how disappointed Zelensky sounds about NATO non involvement tells you a lot. It tells you he considered Ukaraine to be a part of it. Also, Putin’s claim about nazi ideology infiltrating Ukrainian forces is supported by independent analysis here (and elsewhere) for example
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/04/how-zelensky-made-peace-with-neo-nazis/
look, no one is saying invasion is good. I pray for Ukrainians and I pray for Russians and I pray for stupid young european idiots to go there to fight and die. And I’m scared that there is no end game in site but only hysteria and headless chicken mode actions
What do you think should happen next?
Oh dear, your knowledge and understanding of the crisis in the Ukraine is no better that Kamala Harris’s. “So, Ukraine is a country in Europe, it exists next to another country called Russia. Russia is a bigger country. Russia is a powerful country. Russia decided to invade a smaller country called Ukraine. So, basically, that’s wrong, and it goes against everything that we stand for.” Lol!
Are you saying it is right?
nothing “lol”about it.
it is , in short, the exact situation.
or do you want to deny there are russian soldiers in ukraine?
Which country is being attached?
You must have just graduated from a former Polytechnic not knowing how to spell ‘attacked”.
and you just graduated from the “how to be an asshole “school i guess.
You misconstrue criticism of NATO, the EU, the US and the West in general for it’s aggressive move eastwards, with support for Putin’s reaction those moves. You might find many of the opinions expressed here offensive, but if one thing is certain, they are better informed than yours.
Consider that the massive delusion is all yours!
Unless of course you have a paid job to do.
Yes he’s probably works in the troll boiler room, but they can’t get decent staff only paying minimum wage. They get leek instead, poor old NATO.
like your job in st petersburg you mean?
31 / 25 in favour of the Ukraine invasion by Russia.