According to the Financial Times, Western support for Israel’s assault on Gaza “has undone months of work to paint Moscow as a global pariah for breaching international law”. As one “senior diplomat” noted in reference to the Global South, “Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.”
The most obvious example of Western hypocrisy involves the EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen. Last October, she denounced Russia’s attacks on Ukraine’s civilian infrastructure as “war crimes” and “acts of pure terror”. Fast forward one year and she has made no such criticisms of Israel’s “complete siege” of Gaza, instead proclaiming that the “EU stands with Israel”. (Her remarks are plastered all over the Arab press.)
Quoting the Financial Times again:
Just four weeks before the Hamas assault on Israel, leaders from the US, EU and western allies attended the G20 summit in New Delhi and asked developing nations to condemn Russia’s attacks on Ukrainian civilians … Since last Sunday, many of those officials told the Financial Times they have had the same argument read back at them.
But the similarities between the Israel/Palestine and Russia/Ukraine conflicts go well beyond the issue of attacks on civilian infrastructure. In both cases, a military power is occupying territory in violation of international law based on historical claims and perceived threats to the security of its people.
It scarcely needs to be said that Russia’s occupation and subsequent annexation of parts of four Ukrainian oblasts is in violation of international law. Indeed, this is something that Western officials have been stating over and over again for months.
Yet Israel’s settlements in the West Bank, its occupation of East Jerusalem, and its annexation of the Golan Heights are also in violation of international law. Indeed, the illegal annexation of the Golan Heights in 1981, which is recognised by only one country (the U.S.), is directly analogous to Russia’s illegal annexation of the four Ukrainian oblasts last September.
Even Israel’s European allies consider the country to be violating international law. In May 2021, a joint statement by the governments of France, Germany, Italy, Spain and the U.K. described West Bank settlements as “illegal”, urging Israel to “cease its policy of settlement expansion across the Occupied Palestinian Territories”.
The two countries have offered justifications for their ongoing violations of international law which, as noted above, are remarkably similar. Both claim they are protecting their people in what was historically their land.
Interestingly, the similarities don’t end there. For the time being, neither conflict can be resolved through peaceful means due (in large part) to the strategic importance of a certain piece of territory. In Israel’s case, it’s the West Bank. In Russia’s case, it’s the land bridge to Crimea.
Putting historical considerations aside, Israel is not going to give up the West Bank. Why? The reason is obvious when you look at a map. If Israel gave up the West Bank, most of its major population centres (which are dotted along the coast) would be extremely difficult to defend. There would be almost no strategic depth for countering an attack from the East.
And it’s the same for Russia, which is not going to give up the land bridge. If it did, Crimea would be extremely difficult to defend. Much of the peninsula would be in range of artillery and the only supply routes would be via sea, air or the precarious Kerch bridge – which has already been severely damaged twice.
The only condition under which either country might be willing to give up the relevant piece of land is if it had security guarantees concerning its core strategic interests (Israel’s coastal plain and Crimea, respectively). Since such guarantees are not on the horizon, territory will only change hands in the event of either country’s military defeat.
To join in with the discussion please make a donation to The Daily Sceptic.
Profanity and abuse will be removed and may lead to a permanent ban.
And you haven’t mentioned that they are both good business for the defence industry (or the arms trade).
The body-count-barometer that is BAE Systems share price shows the market is strong.
A truly inclusive industry that will turn any colour and creed into the same pink mist.
…and create lots of debt for the banks to earn interest on, supply chain disruption and post-conflict re-construction to profit on, emergency powers for governments and a much needed distraction from global economic collapse and the effects of the COVID jabs.
Or that the Ukrainians have been shelling the Donbass/Donetsk since 2014. I am uncomfortable with both the situation in Ukraine and Gaza. But it appears both the Russians and the Israelis have little choice in their response, forced as their are by external events not initiated by them.
There is some dispute about whether most Palestinians support Hamas or not. How does one find any kind of reliable data on this issue? I’ve no idea what the reality is but this Muslim author asserts that most of the citizens do support the terrorists;
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/20089/hamas-represent-palestinians
It’s referring to the 1988 charter. Perhaps quote someone using the latest information?
The crux of the article is this poll, which was done in May this year. It makes for some interesting reading;
”Findings also indicate that about two-thirds of the public do not fear a repeat of the Nakba. To the contrary, two-thirds of the public do not believe that Israel will celebrate its centenary, and a majority, albeit a small one, believes that the Palestinian people will, in the future, be able to recover Palestine and return its refugees to their homes.
The results of the second quarter of 2023 also indicate a decline in the popularity of Fatah and President Abbas in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip, accompanied by a decline in satisfaction with the president’s performance, especially in light of his recent speech at the United Nations. The increased dissatisfaction led to greater demand for Abbas’ resignation, reaching 80%. The PA’s standing is also worsening, with the percentage of those who believe that its continued existence is in Israel’s interest increasing by six percentage points in three months while half of the public says that the collapse or dissolution of the PA serves the Palestinian interest.
We asked about the recent armed confrontations between the Gaza Strip and Israel. Although a small percentage of the Palestinian public believed that Hamas did not participate or participated to a small extent in these confrontations, Hamas’s popularity was not damaged in either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.
We explored attitudes on the peace process. Support for the two-state solution remains as low as it was three months ago. So does the support for the one-state solution with equal rights for Palestinians and Israeli Jews. We also asked about the most effective way to end the Israeli occupation. Although the majority still sees armed struggle as the best way to achieve this goal, this percentage has fallen by three points compared to three months ago. Expectations of a third intifada have also dropped dramatically in the West Bank, falling by 15 points.”
https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/940
I’m not sure what the answer is emphatically, but this is the first line from Wikipedia…
“Gatestone Institute is a think tank known for publishing anti-Muslim articles.
The organisation has attracted attention for publishing false or inaccurate articles, some of which were shared widely.”
I also know that at leat 50% of the Population in Gaza are children, who could never have voted for Hammas in their entire lives….
….but people did vote for Netanyahu, who funded and built Hammas into what it is today. !!
You’re seriously quoting Wiki at me, Gums? I thought it was common knowledge who owns Wikipedia. Okay, well in that case this is the first line from them about The Daily Sceptic;
”The Daily Sceptic is a blog created by British commentator Toby Young in April 2020. It has published misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines[9] and climate change denial.”
Also, not sure what relevance half of the population being kids has really given that they can’t vote, as you say, therefore wouldn’t have been included in the poll either due to their age.
N.B; The author of the above article is a Muslim, it says that at the bottom, so I wouldn’t believe Wiki is preaching the Gospel about Gatestone Institute publishing ”anti-Muslim” articles. I think it’s just one of those platforms that hosts various authors, similar to American Thinker and many more.
I know, but the woman who owns it is Jewish so I’m thinking I know which way this is going to go…..LOL!
I looked at the latest poll from last month and they would indeed vote for Haniyeh and Hammas, but it’s a rigged question, they would vote that way only because it’s either that or Mahmoud Abbas..(and only 40% would turn out to vote anyway)….and when they put another question in and throw in a third person..the Palestinian Marwan Barghouti…then he wins the vote!
My only point about the kids is people keep repeating ‘they voted for them’ as if they all did..when in fact it is a minority that votes at all anyway..
…although I’m no Professor Fenton….I think he played a bit fast and loose with the truth!
https://pcpsr.org/en/node/955
they might not have voted now but it seems most likely they would as soon as they could vote. just seems that way to me as much as i wish it weren’t so .
In Britain during the troubles, hundred of Irish and British citizens joined the IRA, the only difference being that the Yanks were apparently for the terrorists, as underlined by Biden recently.
Hamas – like the IRA – cannot survive without the support of the community which produces them.
Hamas did not beam down from the Planet Zog, they are the children of ‘most’ Palestinians who have conditioned them, encouraged them, indoctrinated them, trained them to hate Jews and do whatever they can to bring about their destruction.
Any civic society is responsible for, accountable for, their children. If not, who is?
so w ell said . that is what i think too
There is no similarity.
Russia is NOT targeting civilians or civilian buildings.
Their cruise and hypersonic missiles are highly accurate as are their new guided bombs.
They are taking out the power supplies that the electrified railways transport Nato supplied weapons, the transport systems, the factories in Ukraine that make and repair Nato weaponry, Ukraine’s Military Industrial Complex and Ukrainian military control centres.
Civilians suffering power cuts is a biproduct which will hopefully bring Ukraine to the negotiating table before the superior Russian armed forces destroy Ukraine any further.
Residential houses are being hit by their own Ukrainian S-300 air defence missiles.
The same errant Ukrainian S-300’s that ended up in Poland killing 2 civilians, an apartment building in Dnipro and many other instances.
Ukraine always blames it on S-300’s fired by Russia when in fact it is Ukraine’s own S-300’s launched by themselves (trying to stop superior Russian missiles) that are hitting their own residential buildings.
Ukraine make up these stories or even deliberately hit their own residential buildings to elicit more weapons, money and sympathy from the gullible West.
Israel deliberately targets civilians.
There is a similarity in that both involve extremists. The question is whether these are unwitting pawns in both conflicts.
I’m posting this so that you can read the letter sent by Palestinian Christians to Christian Theological leaders in the West, not to encourage you to sign a petition. That is for your own decision.
This is the Christian perspective from Palestine, a perspective that has had next to no airing in the divide & conquer tactics of the MSM.
https://www.change.org/p/an-open-letter-from-palestinian-christians-to-western-church-leaders-and-theologians
Thankyou…Brilliant BB….It’s what I would hope most true conscientious believers would say.
I’m finding it a bit mind boggling that people are talking in the most divisive terms of ‘othering’ and ‘them’, and one lot of lives means less than another lot of lives….and apparently somehow killing a child is worse in one country than another….?
while pretending they support Jews..Jews of all people..who should know if anyone does where that kind of thinking leads?
Neither Arab Israelis or Christians are treated equally in Israel, and there has been a rise in attacks on both….
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-palestinians-christians-attacks-holy-land-jewish-extremists-rcna80441
This could have become a nice text. But unfortunately, it just became the usual broad-brush anti-European junk (Colonialism! etc). The state of Israel came into being not because of Colonialism! but specifically, because England was had been planning to conquer this region (Palestine) from the Ottoman empire which fought as an ally of the central powers during WWI and decided to turn it into a national home for Jews (Balfour declaration) to the detriment of the about 99% non-Jewish people already living there. This happened as part of early decolonialization, specifically, when the league of nations mandates in the formely Turkish lands in the middle-east came to an end after the second world war.
A fair analogy. But there is one major difference.
Russia could carpet bomb Ukraine “back to the stone age”, but has not done so. I don’t think Russia would want to “conquer” Ukraine – how could they when probably 75% would be against that and Russia would thus be fighting a guerilla campaign forever.
Contrast NATO’s/USA’s position when enforcing democracy. Iraq x 2, Libya, Belgrade, Syria etc.
Uncle Sam appears to have given Israel the green light to do whatever it wants to Palestine, hence the bombing. (It’s almost as though they don’t want Israel to have close ties with Saudi etc. So, job done there – much the same as they don’t want Europe, particularly Germany to have close ties to Russsia).
You’ve got to admire how the Weatern powers that be have managed to dodge the blatant hypocricy. Still, controlling the MSM helps I suppose.
I’m pretty sure that the Russians don’t use people as human shields either….
WHY would a supposed civilised country even need to be told this?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/israel
The Israeli high court yesterday ruled that the army’s long-standing practice of using Palestinian civilians as human shields in combat is illegal under international law. It said the military’s claim to have amended the procedure to allow civilians to “volunteer” to work with the army was still unacceptable because it was unlikely anyone would freely do so.
“You cannot exploit the civilian population for the army’s military needs, and you cannot force them to collaborate,” said the Israeli chief justice, Aharon Barak. “Based on this principle, we rule it illegal to use civilians as human shields.”
A further similarity is that both States were created artificially without regard to the ethnicity of the occupants and any animosity between them.
In both cases a recipe for simmering resentment and subsequent conflict.
“territory will only change hands in the event of either country’s military defeat.”
Golan Heights, Yom Kippur ‘73?
Just to be clear, Noah, with reference to your second paragraph: are you accusing Israel of war crimes? A siege is legal under the law of armed conflict.
And while you are available Ian could you please advise why a lengthy post of mine on the earlier Israel thread has been censored? I believe Crisis Garden has a similar issue which requires an answer.
Thank you.
Every single rule under the ‘siege’ situation is being broken by Israel
From starving people to cutting off water, electricity…refusing to assist on the removal of Pregnant women and sick people…to the bombing of hospitals, bakeries schools, mosques and churches…
So yes, War Crimes.
Irish Times “Human Rights Watch: Gaza siege is a ‘clear-cut war crime'”
No, and in any case an accusation from me would be completely inconsequential. I am accusing von der Leyen of hypocrisy for denouncing one thing in one context, while not denouncing a similar thing in another context. It’s worth noting that 800 EU staff recently signed a letter accusing her of “double standards” with respect to Israel versus Russia.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/eu-staff-members-express-fury-over-von-der-leyen-stance-israel-hamas-conflict/5837409
Article discussing the letter to Fond of Lying by 800 EU staff.
I don’t think in general I would say me and Clare Daly share a political stance, but I respect her commitment and her ferocity..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VUKWugQfrg
No. The brutal killings of Hamas and Russia are not a “similar thing” to anything done by Israel or Ukraine. You come across as weirdly inhuman, like you’re a robot.
I think we’re seeing who people really are, like a layer has been peeled off.
The diplomats mentioned in the FT, and the 800 EU staff who wrote to von der Leyen, reached the same conclusion as me. This isn’t some niche viewpoint that no one else holds.
So, if Israel has not committed war crimes, and Russia has, then where’s the hypocrisy? Please tell me.
So, slaughtering a few thousand (and counting) innocent civilians, including many women and children is OK – as long as it isn’t a war crime?
Bombing from 3 miles high is ok though, it isn’t personal you see, unlike bayonetting a child’s guts out, I mean you don’t get to actually see shrapnel tearing a kid’s guts out, so thats ok.
Anyway it matters not one jot, because Israel, like the USA do not recognise the Court’s jurisdiction.
And before you start on your next Ukraine good Russia bad work of fiction, I’m aware Russia doesn’t recognise the ICC either.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/sunak-message-israel-carry-on-slaughter/5837392
Peter Oborne rightly ripping Fishy to shreds for his pathetic globe-trotting in support of that crooked killer Netanyahu.
Nice article.
Good article, and articulates a lot of what I think…like you I want the violence to stop, and no one in the West is doing a thing to encourage it..which is exactly the same as Russia..and where they are indeed similar..
We in the West are ruled by vile idiots who just seem to want to plunge us into the forever war as Julian Assange said they would.
they have forgotten everything about the craft of diplomacy and peace making ….of negotiation, mediation, and reconciliation..
I hate the lot of them….
Russia entered Crimea and annexed it in 2014/2015 because of hostility towards the ethnic Russian population therein, and entered with about 80 000 troops in 2022 to defend it when Ukraine massed forces on the borders of Crimea with the intention of taking it back.
Russia’s movement to the East is also to secure ethnic Russian areas and to deny NATO any possibility of putting bases in Crimea and West Coast of the Sea of Azoz, threatening Russia’s only warm water port and naval and merchant access to the Mediterranean and Suez Canal.
Israel captured Gaza from Egypt in 1967 during the Six Day War. It left and gave up Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005 removing all Jewish settlers.
Hamas and PLO then had a civil war over control, the people voted for Hamas in 2006 and since. Hamas has spent the last 25 years firing rockets into Israel. Two weeks ago Hamas entered southern Israel and committed depraved, sadistic atrocities, slaughtering and butchering about 1 300 men, women, children and taking 200 babies, infants and women hostages.
Israel in response has bombed the crap out of Gaza.
I am at a loss to see the similarity.
I do see the similar facile thinking of the Leftie-loonie, intellectually bereft, that the World is binary: the oppressed, and the oppressors, and they must champion their chosen oppressed by default, no matter how hideous and evil they are.
Russia entered Crimea and annexed it in 2014/2015 because of hostility towards the ethnic Russian population therein
There is no ethnic Russian population in Crimea, except insofar Russians are making a living there in support roles for the large Russian naval base (the population of Crimea was deported by Stalin).
Correct. I should have said pro-Russian.
That’s as incorrect. Crimea is the base of the Russian Black Sea fleet. That’s why the Russians annexed it. Whatever population is living their nowadays is just people attached to this naval base. In the past, Crimea used to be an independent chanate which was semi-illegally annexed by the Russians in the 18th century. Stalin later deported the tatars still living there.
They both act as a distraction to those who cannot do much about it.
They both cause the same people to look away while harms are inflicted on them.
They both enable erosion of individual sovereignty by stealth.
They both help pave the way towards control by a global goverment.
If the situation in Ukraine and Palestine is as dire as we are told, I sincerely wish an end to the suffering as soon as possible – for all concerned, without fear or favour. Nothing appals me more than violence – from any quarter. It is bad for the victims. It is bad for the perpetrators.
But my experience of media, governments and other compromised institutions over the last few years has shown me that they cannot be trusted one iota. Joining up the dots leads to most uncomfortable conclusions – but it would be irresponsible of me to fall into cognitive dissonance.
People prepared to describe themselves as anti zionist are revealing more and more their true prejudice of wanting to or supporting those who want to eliminate all Jews from Israel; if they cannot see the difference between trying to defend oneself from future attacks and obtain the release of the now 222 hostages( including babies) as compared to those who deliberately went out to barbarously and sadistically kill as many Jewish civilians as they could, including cutting open the womb of an 8th month pregnant woman. Even assuming all past grievences specified were true this would not justify these barbarous actions. Gaza has been self governing since 2005, and any problems are now purely the fault of those running it, who seem well able to get hold of and import rockets. It is about the same size as Singapore with half the population, so given the millions it has received in aid should be very prosperous if it had not been spent on arms.
I would have a bit more sympathy if these apologists were to condemn the barbarity of Hamas as well and also call for the release of the hostages. I wonder after 2 weeks what the International Red Cross (it is probably too much to expect anything on this from the Red Crescent) is doing to get access to the hostages let alone their release.
Yes that’s exactly what I’ve thought all along. ‘Silence is compliance’, and all that. Where’s the condemnation from the Muslim community and others who make up the pro-Palestine protestors? Where’s any mention of any of those poor hostages who are in peril and going through god knows what? All I see is callous d*ckheads going around tearing down the ”missing person” posters, targeting lone Israel or England flag-holders like a pack of aggressive animals and generally giving off the ‘anti-Israel/Jew-hater’ vibe. If people don’t speak up and condemn these atrocities then that automatically says to me that they’re condoning it. Simple as that.
Somebody else who’s silence speaks volumes, who I despise generally anyway;
https://twitter.com/JustLuai/status/1716024244830667174
If I were a parent in Gaza I’d have been doing everything within my power to get my kids out of that hell-hole.
Of course they are similar, they are both run for the MIC..
Don’t folks get it yet.. Ffs
The West could offer to evacuate and relocate the approximately 8 million Israeli Jews. All of Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada and I’m sure many other civilized countries would have the resources to welcome these non-terroristic and productive people, to help set them up and end this gawd-awful Middle Eastern mess that can only end in a nuclear war if it carries on like this over the next couple of decades.
At the same time The West needs to END the mass inward migration of tens of millions of culture altering, unwilling to assimilate, Muslims.
None of this ends at all well if both of the above don’t happen.
In terms of good business for weapons it is worth remembering that it isn’t just weapons sales that are the issue but even more importantly and more profitably, the testing of new weapons in different war theatres. Gaza has been a test case for a long time. Ukraine was intended to be the same thing but it didn’t quite work out. People will kill each other for a few thousand. When you’re talking about hundreds of billions you are lookng at entirely different value systems. They laugh at terms like psychopath or sadist. Keep focussing on the mental energy while they get away with all the spoils.
Noah, would you like to offer your perspective on this thread? Personally, I feel this history is lost on a lot of people: https://twitter.com/Cr0mw3II/status/1715589228262752737
At least the Russians didn’t stoop to the depths of depravity shown by the HAMAS terrorists!
This is not a binary issue but a highly nuanced situation that desperately requires a peaceful resolution. Currently innocent civilians on both sides are suffering for the intransigence of those calling the shots.
It is absolutely inevitable that attacks will result in retaliation until a peaceful solution is negotiated.
Poorly informed protests bringing the threats and violence to those living legally and peacefully in our country must be policed properly and equitably. Neither Jews nor Muslims should experience sinister threats in the U.K. because of the violence elsewhere.
They are similar if:
Or do you think these are irrelevant points?
Noah has made no reference to Iran’s determination to wipe Israel off the map and the destruction of all Israelis, using Palestinians as the means.
I don’t recall Putin announcing that Russia intended wiping Ukraine off the map and obliterating all Ukrainians, using ethnic Russians in the Donbas as the justification.
Well to get things in perspective, in 1.5 years, civilians killed (UN data) in Ukraine (mostly in Donbas so hit also with AFU shells) 9,083. In Gaza in two weeks 5,031, looking forward to the ICC arrest warrant for Netanyahu (who claims not to be targeting civilians). Does Israel have a right to respond to those trying to get back their lands? Apparently so. That’s the excuse for Day 1 – what’s the excuse for the next 16 days. Even if viewed as stolen lands, Israel has a right to defend itself. Question is then, why didn’t it? Foreign journalists got there before the IDF showed up – traveling from countries OUTSIDE Israel.