We’re publishing an original piece today by a lecturer at a Russell Group university about the poor reasoning of those who advocate for vaccine passports. Here’s an extract in which he draws attention to the use of false dilemmas in an attempt to persuade people to embrace a Covid status certification scheme.
Debates about vaccine passports often involve people experiencing a false dilemma. Consider a professor at the Harvard Law School for whom the alternative to a vaccine passport system is “stay at your home, or don’t come to college, or don’t come to the employer at all”. For those who want to do such extravagant things as go out, continue one’s education, or go to work to earn a wage, there may seem to be no acceptable alternative.
Many people, it seems, see the debate as one between accepting vaccine passports or facing a punishing future of restrictions, social disruption and isolation, and all their social and economic harms – ones that disproportionality impact ethnic and racial minorities. Given just those two options, vaccine passports will doubtless seem the lesser of two evils. But those aren’t the only option: a false dilemma is imposed by obscuring alternative possibilities. Israel, for one, recently announced the early closure of its Green Card system, barely five months after introducing it, due to encouraging case data and vaccine uptake rates. One obvious alternative is therefore to study up-to-date data on cases, hospitalisations, and deaths and weigh these against vaccination rates and plausible collective immunity levels.
We’re often susceptible to false dilemmas: many of us tend to stick to the options given to us. It also takes expertise, research, and exercises of the imagination to identify alternatives. Moreover, many prefer simplified decision-making situations in which there’s a limited set of simple alternatives. Sometimes, artificially simplified options are acceptable: not all false dilemmas concern important topics (what shall I do tonight – watch Netflix or have a bath?). But vaccine passports raise important issues, so we must take more than the usual amounts of care when considering them. If there are other ways to ‘return to normal’, then vaccine passports are not the only way and perhaps not the best way.
Worth reading in full.
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“Disproportionately impact ethnic and racial minorities”.
And religious minorities. Few if any at our prayer group getting these “vaccines”.
Surely must be illegal?
Just reread the article, it is saying not having vaccine passports will lead to conditions that disproportionately affect minorities. But if uptake remains lower amongst some minorities, it is vaxports that are discriminatory. A friend can’t visit her family abroad without the “vaccine”, but it doesn’t affect me so much as my relatives are in Britain.
Sorry, Hugh, but just saw a story a few moments ago carried by DT whereby judges are told that ECHR is no longer “binding” on UK judges – ie they can “take it into consideration, but are no longer bound by it” – this is the first step, on something akin to ‘Brexit’ grounds, of a reform into the HRA in the UK – I predicted a long time ago this would happen. The HRA was too big an obstacle in the way of a lot of what the government planned to do re vax passports etc and would have to be repealed so that the allegation of “illegality” cannot be levelled at what they plan to do.
everything is disproportionate
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To put an end to this intolerable situation, you simply have to stop complying, withdraw consent, and say “No”, that’s it! It takes a bit of courage and willpower, but it has to be done, for this generation and the next. In fact, it has now become a moral and ethical duty to resist this biosecurity tyranny.
I was just about to post the same thought.
“Normal” is just a “fuck off” away.
Unfortunately, a majority are going along with the whole vaccine-for-freedom narrative.
The vaccine passports appear to be the aim of all this, and we’re not going to be given a choice.
vaccine passports are wrong because they create coercion for the jab
as we know, the vaccines are novel and have no long term safety data (JCVI)
I expect in retrospect it will all look completely mad. In a year when sars-cov-2 has gone the way of sars-cov-1 and the media is full of the horrors of lockdown and vaccine side effects we will wonder how close we came to the abyss and that many people in this country are not far in spirit from the death camp nazi doctors
I doubt that many will look back in retrospect and consider anything completely mad. A few might eventually deny they were ever lockdown enthusiasts but it will forever be written that what has occurred was absolutely necessary. Too much has been invested to ever admit they were duped.
Kids are already being brought up to believe this is all how things should be – time is passing and the old days of the real normal are becoming a fading memory.
I see recently I have had a few e-mails from China, pretending to be from relations addressed to my own first name… with just links attached – and no way am I going to click on those so my computer can be put to ransom! Almost as if they know I have criticised China now and then on-line!
How many other people have they been looking at and have marked down in their Little Red Book?!
unless it is bio-weapons and a more serious one leaks out in the Autumn…
Freeganism, yum yum
Yup – I’ll have some of dat!
The flawed reasoning is that the passport if there to somehow going “protect” people.
Either the jab works and you’ve nothing to fear from the unjabbed or you’re screwed either way.
Then consider what will happen the government decides there’s some new variant or disease out there that’s going to kill us all – you’ll be automatically locked down to wait while the next vaccine is miraculously developed and tested in 9 months (hallelujah brother, all praise the scientists) and then have to wait a further 6 months to a year to bend over and take your medicine. Good luck living in that world.
“you’ll be automatically locked down to wait while the next vaccine is miraculously developed”
this is the most dangerous part of it. if the normal operation every time a new cold comes out is to lockdown and rush out a vaccine then we will be in “Children of Men territory” at some point
Whether or not the jab works is irrelevant if one considers that there is no threat. And I do. I am sixty five, overweight and have chest problems and I consider the actions of the government to be more of a threat to my health and safety than a virus. The argument supporting mass immunisation is that we are all at risk of a terrible death from a dreadful disease. The truth is that we are not and we do not need to be vaccinated against a virus that is nothing more than influenza with a new name. Giving those who may be vulnerable to any severe respiratory condition a proven safe vaccine, as safe as any vaccine can be, which can never be one hundred per cent, is supportable where it is requested, however forcing the human population entire to be vaccinated where it is not necessary and not wanted is a vast criminal conspiracy of a genocidal sort.
Do I think you should have ID to vote? Yes, I think every part of the voting system should face the upmost scrutiny, it’s integrity is vital. My vote is cast, but not recorded against my identity, only that I have done it once, and once only.
Do I think I should have to show papers to buy food for my family? No, the very idea is repulsive to me and for our lives to fall so far is such a short time unconscionable.
Why is everything with professors about racial diversity and how have these two things been conflated?
Because you can’t open your professorial gob these days unless you dutifully spew wokeness.
I used to translate articles by a professor of archaeology in the GDR. Every article began by proclaiming the inexorable path of History towards the triumph of Marxism. Then you could sense the Prof saying to himself ‘OK, that’s the obligatory crap bit done, now comes the real article.’
He eventually defected. You don’t have to rush to offer your academic brain for laundering.
I would also point readers to my study on the potential impact of passports on inclination to vaccinate.
Overall, we find that passports will lower vaccination inclination across the UK, once you account for individuals’ intent to vaccinate. We will likely push many communities away from vaccinating, which is a big problem in the UK because these communities tend to live in large densely populated urban centres with low uptake rates. Thus we might be creating — not reducing — epidemic risk.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.31.21258122v1
A disinclination in the masses to accept a dubious concoction of toxins and modified genes known to cause any number of severe reactions, including disability and death, is only a problem for genocidal psychopaths.
Copied from reddit LS. I thought it a good point about government benefits (social security, unemployment money, child benefit, sick pay, etc.) being denied if you have refused to ‘take the jab’.
“I imagine that government opportunities/aid will be made contingent on having been vaccinated. Since I’m in one of the sectors that need bailing out, I expect one day they’ll make you upload vaccine certification in order to process any loans or aid. I’m not mentally prepared for that day. How am I to prepare? What are we supposed to do then? I don’t have family to lean on, I have a kid, and I know from what’s gone downtown he last fifteen months that when these crisis come around, you’re on your own. So how is someone supposed to prepare? I’m trying to not get caught by surprise again, but I have no coping methods in my arsenal.
Which is of course what gives them so much power, and it’s exactly what they want. But I have yet to see anyone come up with any actual options. Many holdouts will be pushed up against the wall if they decide to make aid contingent on vaccine certification. (Not a far fetched thought at all.)”
It definitely pays to have non-brainwashed friends.
There seem to be some nice folk on here. I don’t know if they are connected in ‘real life’ or on-line… might not be a bad idea to have a place for like a ‘virtual pub’ or a more stable discussion site? Where people can ‘meet’ and discuss without the posts/threads disappearing.
For me, at the moment, it’s just random strangers here – of course, some of the names are becoming familiar after these past 4 weeks (since I joined).
The ‘Today’s Update’ general comments vanish every night – I don’t know if that’s true of the reddit LS site – but there it’s just a long string of comments.
Thing is, with your own site, the owner is responsible for content. I am a member of a boating site made from ProBoards which is unmoderated and can be a lot of fun with ‘self-moderation’. Some of the comments have been close to the upper limit but there have been only 2 reports to ProBoards during its 5 years of existence – one because someone’s personal details were exposed and despite many pleas from the victim they refused to remove the posts (so ProBoards had to step in and do it), and one report from this Spring when I had made a comment about Covid and the vaccines being fake (some old codger reported me for spreading misinformation!).
we need to band together us sceptics and no to the injection people find each other in person, so glad for l s , or i would have thought i was just about all alone , and never let this happen again.
they kept us apart on purpose
As has been mentioned – pubs were probably closed because that’s traditionally where people have got together to plot and plan against their oppressors.
People have been kept apart, and still are – not supposed to get close to anyone in the supermarkets, stickers on the floor to tell you where to stand. I’ve seen stickers on the pavements of the high street in Newbury, Berkshire, and am guessing other UK towns have them – also stickers on lampposts reminding you to keep 2m apart. I bet the companies that made those stickers made a mint – and who stuck them up, the council? Will your rates be going up from this?
This what I call the ‘Covid situation’ has made me rather depondent as it has affected our lives negatively, mainly because we cannot easily/practically travel to England (from Finland) now. Lots of Covid tests required. And we have a property in England that needs attending to (canal boat). We are stuck and I don’t see things easing up, all I see is the UK descending into a fascist dictatorship with The Fat Controller and his Merry band of SAGE (and the weird-looking Chris not-very-Witty).
it’s all criminal, im worried about my knee now 6 months not going to dr trying to fix it on my own, me too am despondent
it’s what they want though i want them to pay for what they’ve done to us
It’s a good article up to a point. But it concedes there is reasoning behind vaccine passports. Some poor deluded fools might try to reason about them, and politicians pretend to reason about them, but really they are just political theatre, a way to perpetuate the panic and fear, the Big Lie, to exercise control, to grab power, to give lucrative contracts to your dodgy mates. Covid was not an emergency, so every measure stemming from the lie that it was an emergency is invalidated.
Once again ATL falls for the distorted Newspeak framework. It’s not a “Covid status certificate”. The fact that you are vaccinated or have been tested gives no guarantees about your Covid status. It’s Digital ID which someone here dubbed “compliance” ID – correctly I think, since it is not about establishing your identity but establishing your compliance. So Digital Compliance ID is the best description I think. “Covid status certificate” concedes 90% of the argument to the WEF Government side before you’ve begun debating anything.
It may currently be used to ensure compliance with whole population mass vaccination but in the future it will be used to ensure compliance with the whole WEF Davos agenda e.g. acquiescence in PC ideology, low meat diet, reduced carbon emissions through travel, health monitoring by the state etc etc.
“It’s Digital ID which someone here dubbed “compliance” ID – correctly I think, since it is not about establishing your identity but establishing your compliance.”
If only the up-tick in the centre was replaced with a symbol of a sheep!
The article quoted contains a false dilemma by suggesting Israel has acted ethically by temporarily abandoning the Green Card system on the basis of encouraging data. That’s a false dilemma because it assume the Green Card system was still a reasonable health response to Covid 19. It never was.
The real false dilemma is suggesting that we need to consider a range of irksome options and that it is not possible to deal with Covid 19 as we have done previous pandemics on a simillar impact scale (e.g. Hong Kong flu). Of course it is possible to put in place traditional responses e.g. fever hospitals, improved treatments, reasonable preventative measures. The response to Covid has been wholly unreasonable and disproportionate as the Good Lord Sumption has made crystal clear.
“The real false dilemma is suggesting that we need to consider a range of irksome options and that it is not possible to deal with Covid 19 as we have done previous pandemics on a simillar impact scale (e.g. Hong Kong flu). ” Totally agree – that’s the whole thing in a nutshell. Not much else to say!
I would also point readers to my study on the potential impact of passports on inclination to vaccinate.
Overall, we find that passports will lower vaccination inclination across the UK, once you account for individuals’ intent to vaccinate. We will likely push many communities away from vaccinating, which is a big problem in the UK because these communities tend to live in large densely populated urban centres with low uptake rates. Thus we might be creating — not reducing — epidemic risk.
de Figueiredo, et. al. The potential impact of vaccine passports on inclination to accept COVID-19 vaccinations in the United Kingdom: evidence from a large cross-sectional survey and modelling study
Medrxiv preprint
Efficacy was mentioned, but not in the tense of the vaccine.
The obese and some other cohorts have shown lower efficacy.
To me at least, this proves it is nothing to do with the Jab
“The Flawed Reasoning Behind Vaccine Passports” is….
The vaccines don’t provide immunity!!
And aren’t vaccines
Vaccine passports are just WRONG.
They are illegitimate and illegal, as they explicitly discriminate through implicitly undermining if not abolishing a person’s unalienable individual right of bodily autonomy.
On top of that, there is absolutely no medical justification for the- any assertion to the contrary is just a lie without any medical, scientific or logical evidence.
No jab, no job is just a crime and its advocates and practicioners should and will be in the dock eventually.
I do not need to be a Russel group professor and write a 3000 word essay to see or reason that, if my moral compass and my BS detector are intact.
Sadly, only a tiny percentage of the population can still claim this.
The rest of them is just advocating and pursuing mob rule here, because they didn’t have the strength or the brains to resist but want a reward for themselves and a punishment for the holdouts now.
They have learned nothing or forgotten everything about human history. They won’t be in the dock for that, but they will definetely rot in hell.
Why the discussion? They should not exist, end of.
Even ignoring the moral and political dimension the idea has no merit.
If vaccines work then what is the point of a vaccine passport? If they work fully then there is none.
If vaccines only work partially then it could be that reducing the circulation of the virus helps keep the infection rate suppressed.
Keeping unvaccinated and vaccinated away from each other could reduce the exposure of the vaccinated from the virus IF the vaccinated are less likely to carry the virus than the unvaccinated than the vaccinated. This is not the case however, AND, it is a stretch to assume that the vaccine is only partially successful at mitigating illness but fully successful at preventing the carrier from passing it on. We can assume that the government is not concerned about the welfare of the unvaccinated.
There could be a temporary use for a vaccination pass in relation to international travel, again if the vaccine is successful, to a country with low vaccination rates. That is just about the only circumstance in which it can be justified.
No this is madness. They are LEAKY vaccines – they do not work BY DEFINITION. They claim to reduce symptoms and that is it. They are not STERILISING VACCINES. The liars in the government and the media whores might deceive the public into believing otherwise, but if people still trust them they are allowing themselves to be mind controlled by the forces of true evil. Covid19 is NO MORE LETHAL than common flu. Even if you believe all their bullshit all you are left with is a bad flu. Influenza has MIRACULOUSLY disappeared of the radar – funny that. You don’t think they’re mislabelling the flu per chance do you? Anyone submitting to this evil is not seeing things clearly. THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR ANYTHING THEY ARE DOING. IT’S ALL BASED ON FRAUD – WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BASE YOUR WHOLE LIFE AND FREEDOMS ON POLICY INVENTED BY PROVEN LIARS AND CRIMINALS WHO ARE DESTROYING YOUR LIFE FOR NO GOOD REASON AND USING CRIMINAL MEANS AND DECEPTION TO DO IT AND TO PERSUADE YOU IT’S VALID?
Vaxx specialist Geert Vanden Bossche – “Mass infection prevention and mass vaccination with leaky Covid-19 vaccines in the midst of the pandemic can only breed highly infectious variants.”
Look at the vaxx harms so far. Why would anyone sane suggest this should be madatory in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER? They are only being administered under a fraudulently obtained EUA when THERE IS NO EMERGENCY. It’s all a fraud, plain and simple. Basing your life on this level of deceit and suggesting their ideas are in any way OK MAKES NO SENSE
Key events analysis: UK FROM MHRA DATA BASE – DEFINITELY UNDER-REPORTED BUT STILL HORRIFYING
https://dailysceptic.org/2021/06/15/vaccine-safety-update-5/
COVID 19 Is A Statistical Nonsense
https://in-this-together.com/covid-19-is-a-statistical-nonsense/
Derek Sloan presser with 3 doctors on malfeasance over Covid handling
https://www.bitchute.com/video/j4XDhz2ZiBy9/
I don’t disagree but I think I’d stick with my argument if stuck in a lift with a vaccpass proponent and I had 1 minute to make my case.
It’s a good day. A video has been released by former police officer Mark Sexton. He has reported Nadhim Zahawi and a bunch of ministers acting like they are above the law to the police. This guy is THE REAL THING. His interview has been recorded and can be viewed below. Also he released a very good video about rights and inalienable rights. We all need to brush up on this knowledge and start using this knowledge against these actors who are breaking the law. We are entering a phase of fightback now. It’s heartbreaking to see all these young people queuing up for their jabs but this should end soon. The harm is off the scale already, and what is in the post is tough to even think about. I believe some justice coming. They’ve put too many noses out of joint and they are maiming and killing British people in a most disgusting way, acting like it’s no big deal. I pray that the government officials, corporate scum and media whores get the taste of justice they so truly deserve. Lords too, what a waste of money good for nothing oxygen thief group of scroungers they are. The people controlling this country are POND LIFE. We need to get rid of them and strip them of their power. Hold tight, stand firm and spread the good knowledge.
Ex Police Officer Mark Sexton Visits Police Station To Report Crimes Against Humanity
https://www.bitchute.com/video/M6Vs67TtOOVv/
Mark Sexton Ex Policeman – Policing, What They Can & Cannot Do
https://www.bitchute.com/video/xmq5rZ5uW62C/
Both these videos are powerful and compelling. Well done this man for standing up for the rest of us and going in to a police station with evidence and calm reasoning. We need to stand up for ourselves, families and friends and not be browbeaten by propaganda and illegal acts by the British government. If this brave individual can give testimony then so can we all standing together.
It’s not a dilemma. It’s an error of understanding to think that a VaxPass adds anything to human safety,
If you’re vaccinated you don’t need to know anyone else’s immune status.
If you’re not vaccinated you don’t need to know anyone else’s immune status
By the way, if you’re free of symptoms, you’re no respiratory health threat to anyone
VaxPass has HUGE value. But only to those promulgating them. Blair et al.
We cannot and must not have any kind of medical or social passport system to enable one to travel (domestically or internationally) or to access leisure or services. NO,NO,NO. Forcing this on the basis of a measly type of flu with a dodgy vax which doesnt prevent sickness but reduces symptoms – sorry, needing to pinch myself furiously again. How are we even here with people clamouring for it? I DON’T UNDERSTAND THEM OR HOW THEY CANNOT SEE THAT IT IS NOT EVEN LOGICAL LET ALONE NECESSARY
The “reason” to enforce social credit score apps (“vaccine passports”) has nothing to do with health, and everything to do with transitioning to a prohibited-unless-permitted society where we beg the State for permission every time that we travel, recreate, work, transact and interact.
If you assume that, everything makes sense.