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Boris Lays Waste to the North

As expected, Boris Johnson announced his “three tier” lockdown in the House of Commons this afternoon and then later at a Downing Street press briefing. It wasn’t a fully-fledged second lockdown throughout England – just a fully-fledged second lockdown in parts of Northern England, with Liverpool paying the heaviest price (so far). Ross Clark in the Telegraph sums it up.

Due to a printing error in last year’s Conservative manifesto a rogue word ‘up’ appeared. When Boris and his team wrote that they wanted to ‘level up’ the north’ they really meant that they simply wanted to ‘level’ the north – that is to reduce its economy to a smouldering ruin, in a way that not even the closures of mines and other heavy industry achieved in the 1980s.

It is the only way I can think to explain the bewildering gap between stated government ambition and the reality.

Clark goes on to point out that it’s the double-standards underlying the Northern lockdown that will really stick in voters’ craws.

It is true that infection rates in many northern districts are currently much higher than in London and the south east. But here’s the thing: back in the spring, when the reverse was true, the whole country was made to lock down together. Now, the north is being singled out for punishment.

The infection rates in several suburban London boroughs (Richmond upon Thames at 122 cases per 100,000, Elmbridge at 129 per 100,000) are approaching the level at which Leicester was locked down in early July and are far higher than the levels in Greater Manchester boroughs when localised restrictions were introduced there in late July. Yet there are no localised restrictions being threatened in leafy London and Surrey.

It is hard to escape the conclusion that, for all its blue wall seats, the Government finds it politically easier to lock down parts of the north than it does the south. For several weeks in August, the Prime Minister appeared to base his whole Covid policy on saving Central London’s sandwich bars, and yet now he seems to think nothing of consigning pubs in Newcastle to oblivion. And oblivion it really will be for many – no business can operate in the stop-start, fickle regulatory environment which is currently being imposed.

The Liverpool Echo doesn’t pull its punches either. The newspaper is not impressed by Boris’s decision to place the city on double secret probation. Here’s an extract from the editorial, headlined: “Sending Liverpool back to the 1980s is no way to manage this crisis“:

Our council leaders, from Mayor Anderson to Cllr David Baines in St Helens and Metro Mayor Steve Rotheram, have described a frustrating process of communication – or lack of – with central Government.

It appears there has been consultation in name only, with frustratingly little clarity given even to those who must implement the rules – and who will be landed with the responsibility of picking up the pieces if they are ineffective.

Anonymous briefings to national newspapers have taken the place of proper communication with our elected officials – still less with the public.

Sweeping changes which could last months have seemingly been drawn up without meaningful input from those they will affect most – and with too little financial support in place to lessen their impact on jobs and prosperity.

Worst of all, there has been no clarity on what we should expect and no clear explanation as to what each measure is expected to achieve.

This is no way to manage a pandemic.

Worth reading in full, although the editorial concludes by accepting that local hospitals are in danger of being overwhelmed and says more money should have have been forked over to sugar the pill. Apparently, all the city got was £14 million, which won’t go very far given that bars, gyms and casinos have had to close for at least a month.

The orange bars represent deaths in the first six weeks from March 13th; the blue bars represent deaths in the last six weeks

Incredibly, Laura Donnelly and Gordon Rayner in the Telegraph say that Boris “overruled” Witless and Unbalanced, who wanted the entire country placed under a second lockdown.

Boris Johnson overruled Government scientists who pressed for national lockdown measures such as stopping all household mixing and closing all pubs, it emerged on Monday night.

Papers from the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) show that the body called for an immediate introduction of national interventions, saying the failure to take such measures could result in “a very large epidemic with catastrophic consequences”.

Meanwhile, the number of new cases yesterday was 13,972 for the whole of the UK, up from 12,872 on Sunday. Still a long way short of the 50,000 new cases Witless and Unbalanced predicted would be announced today.

Given that the number of new cases is only about 25% of the level they predicted it would be, why are they pushing for a second national lockdown?

Isn’t it time these two chumps rolled up their Graph of Doom and retired from British public life?

Just How Simple Are These ‘Simplified’ Rules?

In the House of Commons yesterday Boris put forward what he considers to be one of the strongest arguments for the new “three tier” approach – the rules will be much simpler, and therefore easier to understand than the previous restrictions. But just how simple are the new rules? Amy Jones, the Telegraph‘s Political Correspondent, tries to get her head around them.

Medium Level/Tier One

The medium level covers most of the country and consists of the current national measures. This means those in a tier one area must abide by the “Rule of Six” and the closure of venues at 10pm.

* All businesses and venues can continue to operate, in a Covid-secure manner, other than those that remain closed in law, such as nightclubs and adult entertainment venues.

* Certain businesses selling food or drink on their premises are required to close between 10pm and 5am. Businesses and venues selling food for consumption off the premises can continue to do so after 10pm as long as this is through delivery service, click-and-collect or drive-thru.

* Schools, universities and places of worship remain open.

* Weddings and funerals can go ahead with restrictions on the number of attendees.

* Organised indoor sport and exercise classes can continue to take place, provided the Rule of Six is followed.

* People must not meet in groups larger than six, indoors or outdoors.

High Level/Tier Two

This is for areas with a higher level of infections. This means the following additional measures are in place:

* People must not meet with anybody outside their household or support bubble in any indoor setting, whether at home or in a public place.

* The “Rule of Six” will continue to apply outdoors and in private gardens.

* People should aim to reduce the number of journeys they make where possible. If they need to travel, they should walk or cycle where possible, or to plan ahead and avoid busy times and routes on public transport.

Very High Level/Tier Three

This is for areas with a very high level of infections. The Government will set a baseline of measures for any area in this local alert level. Consultation with local authorities will determine additional measures.

The baseline means the below additional measures are in place:

* Pubs and bars must close, and can only remain open where they operate as if they were a restaurant – which means serving substantial meals, like a main lunchtime or evening meal. They may only serve alcohol as part of such a meal.

* Wedding receptions are not allowed.

* People must not meet with anybody outside their household or support bubble in any indoor or outdoor setting, whether at home or in a public space.

* The Rule of Six applies in open public spaces like parks and beaches.

* People should try to avoid travelling outside the ‘Very High’ area they are in, or entering a ‘Very High’ area, other than for things like work, education, accessing youth services, to meet caring responsibilities or if they are in transit.

* People should avoid staying overnight in another part of the UK if they are resident in a ‘Very High’ area, or avoid staying overnight in a ‘Very High’ area if they are resident elsewhere.

Not exactly simple and even if people master these there’s the added complication of local authorities being able to impose additional measures.

Stop Press: Robert Peston doesn’t think the new rules are at all simple.

Charles Walker MP: Stone Cold Sceptic

Charles Walker MP: Sceptic-of-the-Week

Charles Walker MP, the Vice-Chair of the 1922 Committee, gave an excellent interview to Evan Davis on Radio 4’s PM yesterday in which he calmly and methodically set out the case against the measures the Government announced today. This quote was one of the highlights:

Evan Davis: Is your view that the first lockdown was a mistake?

Charles Walker: We should have learnt the lessons of the first lockdown and the lessons of the first lockdown are this… that this virus particularly targets people with underlying health conditions and the elderly. So what we should be doing is applying the lessons learnt by the first lockdown and it does seem that we’re not.

Evan Davis: So it’s basically the shelter-the-elderly policy and those with underlying conditions?

Charles Walker: If the elderly want to be sheltered. There are many people who are elderly who believe that existing isn’t living. That being told that you’ve got to spend the next six or 12 months without human contact, without seeing the people that you love, without embracing your grandchildren, is a price too high for them. It does seem that this Government for the best of reasons but mistakenly is trying to abolish death. You can’t abolish death. The fact of the matter is that people in their 80s and 90s die. If that comes as news to your listeners or they’re offended by that statement they haven’t been paying close attention. The only guarantee you have if you’re born is that when you get into your 80s and 90s the chances are at some stage in your 80s or 90s you are going to die. We can’t save every life, we just can’t save every life, because the cost to the living is too high. The cost to those people who are not being treated for heart disease or cancer in the 30s, 40s or 50s is too high.

You can listen to the whole thing on BBC Sounds. Interview starts at around the 12 minute mark.

Will There be a Tory Rebellion Today?

The House of Commons is due to vote on Boris’s “three tier” lockdown today, with the vote on whether to extend the 10pm curfew being folded into the votes about whether to embrace the three levels of restrictions. Will the Government lose any of these votes? Unlikely, according to Christopher Hope in the Telegraph.

Tory MPs concerned about the impact of lockdowns on the economy will meet at lunchtime on Tuesday to decide how to vote on the Government’s measures.

One Tory rebel said more than 40 Conservatives could vote against the “very high” tier, with as few as 20 MPs on the other measures, although the rebellion could grow throughout the day.

Last week, 14 Conservative MPs rebelled over the “rule of six”, which limits gatherings of people in England. One Tory said he expected “a significant number of votes against aspects of the measures”.

In theory, more than 43 Tory MPs are required to overturn the Government’s 85-seat working majority in the Commons. However, none of the rebellions on Tuesday is likely to lead to a defeat for the Government because Labour sources signalled that the party’s leader, Sir Keir Starmer, is likely to tell his MPs to abstain.

Senior Tories said they expected Conservatives representing communities in “high” risk areas of the three-tier system to vote against measures in the “very high” areas to lay down a marker in case their areas move into those restrictions.

A senior rebel MP said: “We won’t win the votes against any of this stuff because Labour is abstaining or supporting. But my sense is that it will build as people get more and more hacked off and the longer these restrictions are in place.”

Worth reading in full.

How Worried Should We Be About Rising Hospitalisations?

At the Downing Street press briefing yesterday, NHS National Medical Director Professor Stephen Powis said there are more coronavirus patients in hospitals now than when the UK went into lockdown in March.

“If infections continue to rise, in four more weeks they could be treating more patients than they were in the peak of the first wave,” he said.

But just how alarmed should we be by that factoid? After all, the NHS coped perfectly well during the first wave, with the Nightingales going largely unused. In addition, Covid patients are now more likely to survive, spend less time in ICU and are discharged sooner.

The top NHS doctor who’s made several contributions to Lockdown Sceptics over the last few days has analysed the latest report on COVID-19 patients in England and Wales from ICNARC – the Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre – which compares the fate of those patients admitted on or before August 31st with those admitted between September 1st and October 8th. Turns out, the latter batch are much better off than the former batch. The senior medic has crunched the numbers and written a summary for this site. Here’s an extract:

So, what does all this mean?

On the face of it, patients admitted since September 1st seem to be less ill, require less medical support and have a much lower death rate than those admitted in the period up to 31st of August. This is perhaps not surprising, since we now know that early mechanical ventilation is probably not a good idea, and we also know that drug treatments such as dexamethasone and anti-coagulants are beneficial.

Patients not needing mechanical ventilation are a lot easier to manage than patients on ventilators. The nursing intensity is lower – this could have important implications if the trend continues, as a shortage of specialist nurses was a major problem in the London area in April and May. The large reduction in the need for renal support is also significant in reducing the requirement on nursing and medical resources.

But my doctor friend is only cautiously optimistic, for reasons he explains.

How sure can we be that the group analysed since September 1st will be reflective of the patients admitted for the remainder of the year?

Well, there are some confounding variables which may suggest that this subgroup analysis is a bit skewed to the optimistic side. Firstly, only 427 of the 856 patients in the Sept 1st group have had completed datasets – the remainder are still being treated. It is possible that the 427 contains a higher proportion of patients who recovered quickly, and thus skewed the results to the good side. But the 427 also includes 99 patients who died and this might be a higher proportion than in the still being treated group.

There was a slightly shorter length of stay in hospital before being admitted to ITU in the group after Sept 1st (two days) than in the group admitted up to August 31st (2.5 days). Faster ITU admission and earlier intensive care might be expected to result in better outcomes.

Further, it may also be the case that as the cohort admitted after September 1st were in hospital at a less stressful time, they may have received more medical and nursing attention than the group before August 31st when resources were more stretched.

On the other hand, recent reports broadcast today from North West England and from Italy and France all tend towards a 25% incidence of mechanical ventilation compared to a much higher rate earlier in the year. If this trend continues, it would have significant beneficial effects in reducing medical and nursing workforce demands and enhancing hospital resilience.

Should there be a major ‘second wave’, it’s possible that these better outcomes may not be sustained because medical and nursing staff will come under increased strain. Having said that, the recorded differences to date are so striking and the outcomes so different that it is unlikely to be a chance effect.

So, in summary – it’s too early to tell for sure, but the initial data shows a pleasing improvement in overall survival and a reduced need for intensive medical interventions in the sickest group of COVID-19 patients. Let’s hope this trend continues.

This is an excellent analysis – almost reaching the standard of Carl Heneghan and pals at the CEBM – and worth reading in full.

A Fresher Writes…

Charlotte Kirkham, an enterprising fresher at Keele University, has carried out a survey of her fellow freshers to see how they’re coping with life in a not-so-luxurious prison. She asked 38 first year students whether they’ve found it more difficult to make new friends at university whilst obeying current COVID-19 restrictions and guidelines? Eight-seven per cent said yes, with only 13 saying no. Charlotte then asked them to give reasons. The most common were:

  • You can’t socialise in person outside your bubble unless it’s socially distanced with six people.
  • Being a commuter student who can’t meet anyone in person.
  • No freshers, cancelled social events and opportunities.
  • No parties/clubs/nights out.
  • Fear of repercussions.
  • Online lectures stopping you meet people you sit next to, there’s no chatter or opportunity to stop for a quick chat afterwards.
  • Scared of the virus.
  • Everyone’s in their own rooms.
  • Everything shuts at 10pm.
  • The SU and other large social spaces are restricted and the one way system means you can’t walk up and talk to people.

We’ve published Charlotte’s survey on Lockdown Sceptics here.

Postcard from the Ionian

A reader has sent us a postcard from the Ionian Sea, where he’s just spent an enjoyable fortnight island hopping on his sailboat. Sounds absolutely heavenly.

Just back from a truly wonderful two weeks sailing around the Ionian Sea, Greece. Sailing is obviously a tonic in itself, but the escape from CDS – Covid Derangement Syndrome – that has overtaken half the world was almost as good.

The Ionian islands are sparsely populated, and the Greeks have done quite a good job of keeping Covid off them. There have apparently been just a handful of cases– all brought in by visitors. Those visitors have been isolated and treated where necessary and Covid seems to have never taken off. However, unlike New Zealand, the Greek authorities allow the free passage of visitors and locals in and out of the area – a sensible recognition to me that endless isolation would cause far more harm than good.

Two people off our flight from Gatwick were randomly tested at Preveza airport and we hear that for some flights everyone was tested. So the authorities aren’t quite in the ‘let it rip’ camp. As an avid sceptic and of the view that the virus is uncontrollable, I was a bit ambivalent about their scenario as they really do seem to have the virus under control. That left me thinking that it is the unnatural densities of populations in our huge cities which is part of the problem – ‘control’ can only happen with total incarceration – and even then is only temporary.

On the islands we visited, the only reminder that there is/was/might be a future pandemic was that some of the Taverna staff wore masks. There appears to be no equivalent of ‘social distancing’, no Perspex screens, no stickers on the floor, no authoritarian-sounding notices on the walls, no mask-wearing in the streets (masks are supposed to be worn in shops) and best of all – absolutely no busy-bodies trying to enforce anything. It seems even staff mask-wearing hasn’t reached the smallest islands, where a spirited evening of drinking and eating can be had with no evidence of the supposed viral threat.

There is no crime in the islands to speak of, and we have never seen a policeman, so don’t expect cops stopping people in the street and handing out fines or beatings (it’s definitely not Victoria state Australia).

The closest we got to a figure of authority is the marvellously theatrical self-appointed harbour master on Kalamos. He directs every boat where to anchor in the harbour – who are then bound to re-pay the favour by eating in his Taverna. He zooms out of the harbour to greet every approaching yacht in his super-smart RIB (with easily the biggest outboard on the island) dramatically circling your boat, bowing and circling his hand to emphasis a booming “Welcome to Kalamos”. It seemed to embody the spirit of the islands. Heartily recommended for a holiday – they certainly deserve it.

Alternatives to Bedwetters

Frank Spencer in Some Mothers Do Ave Em

Thanks to all those readers who’ve suggested alternatives to “bedwetters” as a term to describe people on the other side of this argument. The ones I particularly like so far are Covstapo, Sucklers, Poltroons, White Walkers, Shutters, Lemmings, Limboists, Lockdown Zombies, Covid Jelly Babies, Covid Disciples and Covid Neurotics. But Chin Wobblers is still at the top of the list. Although there is this…

This reminds me of the Falklands conflict when squaddies were forbidden to refer to the locals as Bennys after the stupid character from crossroads series played by Paul Henry.

Instead they called them Stills and when asked why, they would reply, because they’re still Bennys.

I think STILLS is also appropriate here.

Round-Up

Theme Tunes Suggested by Readers

Just one today: “In A Lonely Place” by New Order.

Love in the Time of Covid

We have created some Lockdown Sceptics Forums, including a dating forum called “Love in a Covid Climate” that has attracted a bit of attention. We have a team of moderators in place to remove spam and deal with the trolls, but sometimes it takes a little while so please bear with us. You have to register to use the Forums, but that should just be a one-time thing. Any problems, email the Lockdown Sceptics webmaster Ian Rons here.

Sharing stories: Some of you have asked how to link to particular stories on Lockdown Sceptics. The answer used to be to first click on “Latest News”, then click on the links that came up beside the headline of each story. But we’ve changed that so the link now comes up beside the headline whether you’ve clicked on “Latest News” or you’re just on the Lockdown Sceptics home page. Please do share the stories with your friends and on social media.

Woke Gobbledegook

We’ve decided to create a permanent slot down here for woke gobbledegook. Today we bring you a review in the New York Times by Haley Mlotek of a book that sounds like a sequel to the Society for Cutting Up Men – a kind of anti-straight manifesto.

The Tragedy of Heterosexuality wastes absolutely no time getting to the point, but while many of the sentences (including the title) made me laugh out loud, it is at heart a somber, urgent academic examination of the many ways in which opposite-sex coupling can hurt the very individuals who cling to it most.

Ward distinguishes straightness as a practice from straight culture, which is the very heart of society’s most disgraceful failures. It is not, as one popular joke goes, that straight people are “not OK.” It is that heteronormativity creates a powerful, privileged form of sexuality against which, historically and currently, all other forms are compared. In examining the pressure to partner with the opposite gender we find the extortions of capitalism, the misogyny of violence against women, the racist and xenophobic erasure of nonwhite families, and the homophobic hatreds that pervade so much of everyday life.

Even by the standards of incomprehensible woke nonsense, that takes some beating.

“Mask Exempt” Lanyards

Tony Husband cartoon in Private Eye

We’ve created a one-stop shop down here for people who want to buy (or make) a “Mask Exempt” lanyard/card. You can print out and laminate a fairly standard one for free here and it has the advantage of not explicitly claiming you have a disability. But if you have no qualms about that (or you are disabled), you can buy a lanyard from Amazon saying you do have a disability/medical exemption here (takes a while to arrive). The Government has instructions on how to download an official “Mask Exempt” notice to put on your phone here. You can get a “Hidden Disability” tag from ebay here and an “exempt” card with lanyard for just £1.49 from Etsy here. And, finally, if you feel obliged to wear a mask but want to signal your disapproval of having to do so, you can get a “sexy world” mask with the Swedish flag on it here.

Don’t forget to sign the petition on the UK Government’s petitions website calling for an end to mandatory face masks in shops here.

A reader has started a website that contains some useful guidance about how you can claim legal exemption.

And here’s a round-up of the scientific evidence on the effectiveness of mask (threadbare at best).

The Great Barrington Declaration

Professor Martin Kulldorff, Professor Sunetra Gupta and Professor Jay Bhattacharya – actual scientists, unlike Devi Sridhar

The Great Barrington Declaration, a petition started by Professor Martin Kulldorff, Professor Sunetra Gupta and Professor Jay Bhattacharya calling for a strategy of “Focused Protection” (protect the elderly and the vulnerable and let everyone else get on with life), was launched last week and the lockdown zealots have been doing their best to discredit it. If you Google it, the top hit you get is a smear piece in the Guardian headlined: “Herd immunity letter signed by fake experts including ‘Dr Johnny Bananas’.” (Freddie Sayers at UnHerd warned us about this hit job the day before it appeared.) On the bright side, Google UK has stopped shadow banning it, so the actual Declaration now shows up in the search results – although discussion of it has been censored by Reddit. The reason the zealots hate it, of course, is that it gives the lie to their claim that “the science” only supports their strategy. These three scientists are every bit as eminent – more eminent, for the most part – than the pro-lockdown fanatics. So expect the attacks to continue.

You can find the petition here. Please sign it.

Samaritans

If you are struggling to cope, please call Samaritans for free on 116 123 (UK and ROI), email [email protected] or visit the Samaritans website to find details of your nearest branch. Samaritans is available round the clock, every single day of the year, providing a safe place for anyone struggling to cope, whoever they are, however they feel, whatever life has done to them.

Shameless Begging Bit

Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the past 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. Doing these daily updates is hard work (although we have help from lots of people, mainly in the form of readers sending us stories and links). If you feel like donating, please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links we should include in future updates, email us here.

And Finally…

The Government’s reskilling ads – suggesting new career paths for people who’ve lost their jobs as a result of the Government’s colossal mishandling of the coronavirus crisis – have launched a thousand memes.

Comments

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2.4K Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
jhfreedom
jhfreedom
5 years ago
JHuntz
JHuntz
5 years ago
Reply to  jhfreedom

Just look at the comments though it’s absolutely depressing.

jhfreedom
jhfreedom
5 years ago

It is tough not wearing a mask but I see it as no less than a moral duty to those who are dying as a result of the pandemic response (cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular, suicide) and for the money mis-spent that could be creating a better country for all (levelling up, remember that?).

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago

Get ye gone, todays page is open.

DanClarke
DanClarke
5 years ago

Amazing how many people still think this is about a virus

DRW
DRW
5 years ago
Reply to  DanClarke

Especially on here too, although I think it might have been to start with.

Kf99
Kf99
5 years ago

If Labour’s so keen on the 3-week lockdown why don’t they do it in Wales? And why does no-one ask Starmer about that?

Nobody2021
Nobody2021
5 years ago

**New page is up**

Will
Will
5 years ago

Camilla Tominey in the Telegraph will put the lead in any lockdown sceptics pencil!!!!

Sarigan
Sarigan
5 years ago

Possibly posted before but well worth a read if you have not seen it:

Covid-19: The Data Exposing the Deception

https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/covid-19-data-exposing-deception

DanClarke
DanClarke
5 years ago
Reply to  Sarigan

Will our Government ignore all the evidence and plough on with the ‘Agenda’?

Janice21
Janice21
5 years ago

Just heard of the latest proposed restrictions here in N Ireland. Feeling very glum today already 🙁

Ned of the Hills
Ned of the Hills
5 years ago
Reply to  Janice21

Does the word “futile” never strike the minds of these people?

Janice21
Janice21
5 years ago

Oh they were all debating over it until the early hours of this morning apparently. The brainpower in that room must have been something else!!

Karenannsceptic
Karenannsceptic
5 years ago

In the public sector there is no such thing as futile lol (I speak as someone who has worked in private and public sector)

BeBopRockSteady
BeBopRockSteady
5 years ago

Northern Ireland has 60%+ of its workforce dependant on the public sector. Its basically a failed enterprise in that regard. So you can see why they don’t mind closing everything down again. Its pathetic. All elective surgeries in Belfast now cancelled.

This is an NHS issue. Staff isolating and wards closed due to nosomical outbreaks.

Here are the death stats for my NHS ward (population 260,000) here which has the highest case rate per 100,000 in Europe. Since Jan:

DEATHS ANALYSIS

Aged 80 & Over
20 – 74.07%

Aged 60 – 79
4 – 14.81%

Aged 40 – 59
3 – 11.11%

Aged 20 – 39
0 – 0.00%

Total CV19 Deaths
27

IanE
IanE
5 years ago

“minds”???

jhfreedom
jhfreedom
5 years ago
Reply to  Janice21

In-laws from Belfast due over here at Xmas, this ‘government’ better not get in the way of that…

DanClarke
DanClarke
5 years ago

Chinese investment in the north continues to climb.

Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago

For anyone who wants to push back against door Nazis, I have created a document that explains that they risk a personal fine of up to £9,000 for challenging you for not wearing a mask.

Using this document, you don’t have to resort to saying “I’m exempt” or showing a lanyard. Just show the Nazi the document, say nothing, and wait for them to quickly wave you in.

arfurmo
arfurmo
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

Not sure that “These fines will be levied against you personally. Your employer may also be fined.” works if a member of the public asks when you are choosing your tins of beans -but otherwise great document.

Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago
Reply to  arfurmo

Should I remove the “your employer” bit?

VeryLittleHelps
VeryLittleHelps
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

Leave as is for door nazis, but I think arfurmo meant it would not work on a Karen in the shop.

Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago

I actually wasn’t happy with the employer sentence myself and I have been waiting for an excuse to drop it. I’m going to leave it out for now, but I’m happy to put it back in if the consensus is that it is more useful than harmful.

Does anyone have any suggestions for any alternative wording that might be more effective against shoppers (rather than door Nazis)?

VeryLittleHelps
VeryLittleHelps
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

Door Nazis are not shoppers, they are the the front door staff that challenge with zeal. They are employed by the premises, therefore both them and employer face fines if challenging people with disabilities. Karens are the shoppers that challenge. The front door staff where I work, do not challenge anybody with no mask.

Londo Mollari
Londo Mollari
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

Do the police have the right to ask what your medical condition is, in front of a crowd of other people?

Ozzie
5 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Absolutely not – this would breach the Equality Act (2010). This is personal information.

Londo Mollari
Londo Mollari
5 years ago
Reply to  Ozzie

So, what can the police ask? just whether you have a medical exemption, presumably.

Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

My understanding (I am not a lawyer) is that you need to convince the constable that you have a reasonable excuse for not wearing a mask.

From what I have seen, the law is extremely vague. It seems to allow an authorised challenger to issue a fixed penalty notice just on the basis that they don’t believe you. So I would suggest that it would be a good idea to have a something that you can brandish to show that you have prepared in advance, whether that is a lanyard or some kind of document.

I personally have printed out and filled in a Notice of Exemption to avoid ill health or injury, to use in case I am challenged by a properly-authorised person. See Law or Fiction’s low mood page for more details.

Note that even the police cannot demand to see medical evidence, so you don’t need a doctor’s note (and indeed, I think GPs have been advised not to issue such things).

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

No. The reason that you are not wearing a mask is that you declare yourself ‘exempt’. This cannot be tested until (Lol) it comes to Court and even then it is doubtful.

Patrick
Patrick
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

Excellent! Thank you. I wear a lanyard (for medical and political reasons: the lockdown has f*cked with my physical and mental health.
End the lockdown, and I’ll be my former, happy self.

Ned of the Hills
Ned of the Hills
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

Much thanks for compiling that document – I shall have it laminated!

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

Have saved it! Thanks a lot!

jhfreedom
jhfreedom
5 years ago
Reply to  Bart Simpson

We are quite ‘lucky’ here in the UK, since on the continent you need a document to prove exemption and the police are being over-zealous about checking esp in France, Spain, Germany. They love a good personal document on the continent.

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago

The government own advice is that an ‘exempt’ lanyard or card is not necessary but that even a homemade one will suffice if you feel the need.
Plenty of opportunity for mischief making there methinks.🤐

Alan P
Alan P
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Been doing that since the 23rd July.
Only challenged once (being an ex-front row forward, I was surprised), but told them where to get off!

Ned of the Hills
Ned of the Hills
5 years ago
Reply to  Alan P

🙂

Ann
Ann
5 years ago

I’m with you.

crimsonpirate
crimsonpirate
5 years ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54228649
worth having another look at this article on the BBC from 28.09. by Nick Triggle.
Take a look at the charts for death rates. Q4 2020 appears to be replicating Q4 2019. Of course there are some who suspect Covid was here at the end of 2019 as well

Ned of the Hills
Ned of the Hills
5 years ago
Reply to  crimsonpirate

Looking at the first graph it strikes me given the slow rise of the second wave – if it retains that rate – it won’t be peaking at the same level as the first (or yea, exceeding it) until what? the year 2028?

Lili
Lili
5 years ago

Excellent comment in the Telegraph:
Lucilla Rowbury
14 Oct 2020 8:34AM
I applaud any journalist with the integrity and courage to speak the truth. Thank you.
This is about total decimation of the economy so that Klaus Schwab’s great reset or fourth industrial revolution can be implemented. There is mounting evidence of global corruption and crimes against humanity to ensure that this new world order is brought forward.
Here in the UK, Johnson isn’t oblivious to the destruction, he’s not incompetent; Johnson is doing EXACTLY what he has been told to do. 
In the coming months Johnson and Hancock will herald in this new world order (Great Reset posters already up in parts of the UK) and the gullible amongst us will think how wonderful that something good has come out of this crisis. But the more informed amongst us will realise that the virus has been used as trojan horse to accelerate the plans of one of the most ethically repugnant psychopaths on this planet.
The measures taken by our government (most governments) were never about health: it has always been about control.
Say goodbye to life as you knew it.
Say hello to totalitarianism, global government, digital currency,… Read more »

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Lili

Wow, that’s quite Conspiracy Theoryist for the Graph.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Please read the matt handcock speech in the UK Government website. Perhaps you can add a thought about the content of that.

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I wasn’t knocking the comment, I was expressing surprise that the Telegraph had allowed it.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Gotcha. My naivety of what the tele is showing. I apologise.

Nick Rose
Nick Rose
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

It’s not that the great reset doesn’t exist, it’s half the rubbish added to it that causes eyes to glaze over.

Jonathan Palmer
Jonathan Palmer
5 years ago
Reply to  Nick Rose

As the pressure grows for a second lockdown,one that has been in the pipeline for a couple of months you still persist in your naive belief that this is all down to incompetence.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Lili

The Fourth Industrial Revolution’
The 2017 Matt Handcock speech you didn’t know about. On the UKGov website.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-4th-industrial-revolution

“…And I’m delighted to speak alongside so many impressive colleagues who really understand this, and alongside Professor Klaus Schwab who literally ‘wrote the book’ on the 4th Industrial Revolution. Your work, bringing together as you do all the best minds on the planet, has informed what we are doing, and I’m delighted to work with you. …”

I’ve posted this before, I’ll post on the coming new page too. This confirms -at government level what the telegraph commenter says. No dispute no oh it’s an accident. There is collusion by UK Government to bring about a 4th Industrial revolution in the form of a man called Klaus Schwab. Why has their not been a national discussion out this?

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I missed you posting this before Basics so thanks for the repeat.
The wanker is still a useful idiot who will be thrown under the bus once he’s done their bidding.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Many would dance a jig if he was on all sides of the mask.

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

This committee, the people on it, and what roles they have, need to be exposed to the full power of sunlight:

https://tech.newstatesman.com/public-sector/healthtech-advisory-board

Basics
Basics
5 years ago

Every skeptic in the universe needs to know who Daniel Korski CBE is. Another chosen one of emmense power, shadowy. And a contemporary in age of Sridhar. Korski had a substanstial role in over seeing the Afghan poppy crops, to reduce them I suppose was his goal, he absoltuely failed in real terms with year on year increases since the weatern invasion.

Look him up Daniel Korski.

From you article
“Among the 13 board members are: chair Ben Goldacre, a clinician, author and head of Oxford University’s data lab; Jeni Tennison, CEO of the Open Data Institute; Roger Taylor, chair of the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation; Rachel Dunscombe, CEO of the NHS Digital Academy; and Daniel Korski, CEO of govtech venture capital firm Public.”

BeBopRockSteady
BeBopRockSteady
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Is that Ben Goldacre of Bad Science fame?

VeryLittleHelps
VeryLittleHelps
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Another piece of the puzzle falls into place. I have been investigating links to the World Economic Forum within our government, but had not found any yet. Tony Blair has strong ties to the WEF and was a tier 1 guest at 2020 Davos, this could explain the lack of opposition from Labour.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago

Not related to your point about govs. But just to point out how fast it was for greta to go from Friday sitting on pavement alone to invitation to Davos. This is worth keeping in mind when considering WEF are instigators of this forced 4th industrial revolution. We are seeing greenwash being used to disguise the oppressiveness of their planned recovery for us. Build back Better – that is a global slogan now.

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago

What’s with the ‘FACE’ ? do they want us sanitizing our faces with gloop now ?

Tell you what johnson, you can sanitize my Ass.

Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Don’t let him anywhere NEAR your ass.

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Ann

Figuratively speaking Ann.

OKUK
OKUK
5 years ago

HANDS up! Your FACE is now a government SPACE.

Mr Dee
Mr Dee
5 years ago
Reply to  OKUK

Hey, that’s my idea – make-up masks. Great minds think alike…

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago

Fine Dining @ Oxford University

Screenshot_20201014-083310_Chrome.jpg
Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Domino rally action ally.

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

They have been used to carrying digital ID cards for some years, they can’t take a piss without one let alone a library book.

Two-Six
Two-Six
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Mental. So these people are supposed to be the most intelligent people in the UK?
ffs

Basics
Basics
5 years ago

“Fresh doubts have been raised over “Operation Moonshot”, the government’s £100bn testing plan, after a pilot to regularly test a quarter of a million people was paused then significantly scaled back.

“The trial, in Salford in Greater Manchester, had been heralded as the first step in a mass-testing mission which Boris Johnson said “would allow people to lead more normal lives, without the need for social distancing”.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/13/operation-moonshot-doubts-over-uk-covid-saliva-tests-plan-after-trial-scaled-back

“All 254,000 residents were to eventually take regular saliva tests – a scientific breakthrough Johnson said would turn round results “in 90 or even 20 minutes”.

“But six weeks after the pilot began, it was paused last week and on Tuesday the government admitted it would now be smaller in scale and focused on “high-risk environments and groups”.”

“The Salford pilot would test people “in indoor and outdoor venues”, meaning “workplaces could be opened up to all those who test negative that morning and allow them to behave in a way that was normal before Covid”, the prime minister said.

“But sources said the pilot scheme was struggling to persuade even 250 Salfordians to provide saliva samples. An NHS official also admitted earlier this month that more progress needed to be made… Read more »

Cecil B
Cecil B
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

As predicted it turned out to be Moonshit

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

In the article it shows how folk have asked for the data to show the testing validity – none has been forth coming.

OKUK
OKUK
5 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

The connection between the moon and lunacy is well established. In this case it’s linked to lockdown lunacy.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  OKUK

Hence Graph to-the-moon.

Lunar. Howling at the.

DRW
DRW
5 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

More like moon-shine!

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Did that scam include the £500.00 bounty cash bribe?

Will
Will
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Maybe the Salfordians have woken up to the link between testing and deprivation of Liberty…

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

What I like, and value, it tge quite rejection that Britain has. The stereo-typical latin way is to stomp and gesture, Britain still has it’s reserve – this is it.

Spit in that tub sir? Everyday sir? Right you are sir! Then….

Crickets
Tumbleweed
And a whole lotta nothing.

I value that.

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

16million max have downloaded the NHS app, so 50+million have not.

“Quiet desperation is the hancock way”.

ConstantBees
ConstantBees
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

TBF, I wouldn’t expect children to download it.

Mr Dee
Mr Dee
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I was in Salford a couple of months ago. Not been before. Locals I met seemed to be level-headed no-nonsense types, cynical of this shit. Good on them. This is how we defeat the tyranny. By ignoring it.

Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago
Reply to  Mr Dee

As an ex-Northerner myself, I can attest to their common sense. But I can’t understand why so many of them are still voluntarily selling themselves into serfdom by getting tested. That’s why I created the refuse-to-be-tested poster. Maybe somebody up North can print some out and stick them up.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Mr Dee

Bang on. I suggested before te mask thing came in that Mancunians would reject -being sound. I was proved wrong, as people said wokeism has taken over from sound. But it seems their might be a recovery happening. People remembering who they are.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I studied at Manchester University & that has got to be one of the wokest places in the country. Not helped that Labour has blantantly courted the votes of people who follow a certain religion for years now.

Saved To Death
Saved To Death
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

£100 billion on unnecessary tests – it was hard to believe the government were serious about this but here they are. Not a word of complain from the NHS? What happened to NICE? How can any honest person take part in this.

Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

How do you prove you tested negative that morning? Do you carry a test tube full of your own spit?

zacaway
zacaway
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Good news

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  zacaway

And do you know what? There’s heaps of it about. If you look.

zacaway
zacaway
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Yep, definitely more of it about compared to a few weeks ago.

BeBopRockSteady
BeBopRockSteady
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Every single measure, all of it, requires high compliance thresholds to do any good tackling the virus. If that’s what we are dealing with at all. So the government have a choice. Either abandon the enterprise or go full on surveillance and enforcement on the population. Its that simple.

Ann
Ann
5 years ago

The Morning Star was very bright today, not fading until the sun rose in even greater glory.
See it as a sign of hope.
The light is dawning, the lie broken.
The lie is not yet broken, but it will be.
Stand firm.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Ann

Stand firm and take a step forward.

steve_w
steve_w
5 years ago

I know the polls tend to show a split between retards that want more .lockdown and the level headed. Has anyone seen a survey of the vulnerable? Do they want to lockdown or get on with it? They might not have long left

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  steve_w

I’ve been speaking to the vulnerable little old ladies before, during and after partial lifting of lockdown. They have not changed their opinion that the Covid should have been allowed to run its course “as usual”.

Two-Six
Two-Six
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

ffs

Cheshirecatslave
Cheshirecatslave
5 years ago
Reply to  steve_w

I’m vulnerable and I don’t want lockdown. I wish to make my own choices how best to protect myself.I’ve had to do so all my life.

Will
Will
5 years ago
Reply to  steve_w

We are vulnerable as a family: my daughter is having chemotherapy and a blood therapy designed to bleach her B cells plus she is on methotrexate, so all in all she is thoroughly immuno compromised, but we don’t need anyone else to curtail their existence for our safety, thank you very much. It is an absolute doddle to shield/ protect ourselves and we are worried about colds, never mind sars-cov-2.

Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

Inspiring words. All the very best to your daughter and the whole of her brave family.

steve_w
steve_w
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

All my best wishes to you and your family!

wendyk
wendyk
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

May the force be with you and your family

jhfreedom
jhfreedom
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

Bravo. As a libertarian, I believe you should be making your own choices for your family based on your own risk assessment, and it sounds like you are doing exactly that, and doing it well. This is the Sumption argument. Good luck to you all.

Tom Blackburn
Tom Blackburn
5 years ago

Absolutely love this

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1316144370391945225?s=20

Taking back control

jhfreedom
jhfreedom
5 years ago

Say what you will about Trump, the fact is that in America people are going to have a proper choice over the Covid response in the upcoming election:

https://www.ft.com/content/9c95268e-5a65-48c4-bbaa-a4d88c4b5c03

If Biden wins, prepare for a national lockdown and mask mandate as well as higher taxes. Internationally, this will be a blow for the sceptic movement. America remains influential, if not as much as before.

steve_w
steve_w
5 years ago
Reply to  jhfreedom

I think a lot of the response to Covid is about damaging the economy to stop Trump winning the election. Covid will be much closer to over after the US election

Rene Fraser
Rene Fraser
5 years ago
Reply to  jhfreedom

It won’t affect the UK that much, I think they will just keep on what they are doing regardless of who wins the election.

Kf99
Kf99
5 years ago
Reply to  jhfreedom

If the libdems had any balls they’d advocate sweden while Starmer goes for full lockdown. Then we’d have a choice too.

zacaway
zacaway
5 years ago
Reply to  Kf99

Yes, are missing a trick there. They wouldn’t even need to change their party name if they came out in favour of liberal democracy.

Two-Six
Two-Six
5 years ago
Reply to  Kf99

The lib dems will SAY they are against a few bit of lockdown policy, enough to win votes then if they get any power they will be all for it.
As usual. I hate the Lib Dems.

jhfreedom
jhfreedom
5 years ago
Reply to  Kf99

Sweden is not a principles-based policy route. They just came to a different conclusion that happens to look like it values individual freedom!

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
5 years ago
Reply to  jhfreedom

This is quite an interesting article describing work done by one of Wall Street’s leading quant strategists in marginal states:

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/jpmorgans-kolanovic-has-warning-those-expecting-crushing-biden-victory

jhfreedom
jhfreedom
5 years ago

Interesting. I also charted the other day Trump’s polling (Real Clear Politics) in 2016 v now. As of yesterday it was pretty much identical. And Trump went on to have a polling spike and win back then as we know…

DRW
DRW
5 years ago
Reply to  jhfreedom

A Trump win is still more likely in my view- most don’t buy the woke crap.

zacaway
zacaway
5 years ago

Coronavirus vaccine will be only 50pc effective, warns head of UK taskforce

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/13/coronavirus-vaccine-will-50pc-effective-warns-expert/

Bella Donna
Bella Donna
5 years ago
Reply to  zacaway

The flu vaccine is the same too. However I prefer to rely on my own immune system its kept me healthy so far without injecting chemicals into my body.

zacaway
zacaway
5 years ago
Reply to  Bella Donna

Agreed. They made that point that flu is at most only 50% effective. Good to hear some sense from the person leading the vaccine program, and hopefully blows a hole in the idea that we’ll all have to get it

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Bella Donna

Never taken a flu jab despite annual invitations from my GP practice, never had flu either strangely enough.

fiery
fiery
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

I’ve also never had the flu vaccination. The last few years I worked for the NHS I faced increasing pressure to submit to this time wasting treatment. I always absolutely loved telling the vaccine zealots what they could do with it. If I receive a letter from my GP it will be returned with no longer at this address on the envelope.

Two-Six
Two-Six
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Same, well I might have had flu or just a bad cold..Who cares?

Sally
Sally
5 years ago
Reply to  zacaway

“Face masks and social distancing may be still be needed even if a global trial is successful”

zacaway
zacaway
5 years ago
Reply to  Sally

Yes, that part is depressing. There is no end to it in that case, though I would hope by that time people will have had enough of that.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Sally

Yes it is the abnormal they need to bring in to achieve their aims. What use will it be if ppl get vaccinated and then return to life as before, the masks have been one long creep of behavioural change.

These gangsters won’t suddenly allow us to remove the oppression. It will only be done through our collective will. Just as soon as the critical mass is big enough then masks will be gone. That might never occur, but it will. Human nature isn’t to let this evil last. The confidence trick continues to be spun and continues to show people exactly what kind of animals are running the show.

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

It was critical mass that broke down the Berlin Wall, took a few years but they got there.

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Sally

Tier 1 ‘new normal’.

Will
Will
5 years ago
Reply to  Sally

Not in Sweden they won’t. I suspect that in March Sweden will completely abandon all social distancing, if not before.

DRW
DRW
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

Their health body has said expect it for at least another year.

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  zacaway

Oh surprise surprise.

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
5 years ago
Reply to  zacaway

It’s also unlikely before next autumn, according to Oxford Vaccine group. J&J vaccine trial is paused and so too now is the Eli Lily monoclonal antibody phase III trial as of yesterday.

Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  zacaway

Great, so we get vaxx AND face nappies AND antisocial distancing.

jhfreedom
jhfreedom
5 years ago
Reply to  Ann

Surely not, there needs to be an agreement that the vaccine (even if it doesn’t work that well) marks the end of this nightmare…please….

John ballard
John ballard
5 years ago

Here we go again, another day of government and opposition incompetence trying to outdo each other as the most stupid. Another day of the media grabbing hold of anything they can scare the public with. I thought the whole brexit thing we had for three years showed the media and government as beyond useless, but they’ve upped their game again for COVID !!!

Tom Blackburn
Tom Blackburn
5 years ago

Daily Mail: Britain must not be sacrificed on the altar of fighting Covid-19, writes Professor ROBERT DINGWALL.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8836699/Britain-not-sacrificed-altar-fighting-Covid-19-writes-Professor-ROBERT-DINGWALL.html

Kevin
Kevin
5 years ago
Reply to  Tom Blackburn

Good article. I’ve been telling friends and family for weeks that they haven’t really made any ‘sacrifices’ in the fight against Covid19 but that in fact they have been sacrificed on the altar of the NHS, most think I’m deluded!

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
5 years ago
Reply to  Tom Blackburn

Just read it. Well said, it amazes me that with our economy heading towards the cliff, the government are still considering doubling down their insane rules so far.

The opposition are no better and in fact they’re worse.

The end of furlough can’t come soon enough. Perhaps economic Armageddon will be what wakes people up.

Cecil B
Cecil B
5 years ago

The fraudsters at Vueling airline are at it again. Despite a one billion bail out by the Spanish Government they are cancelling flights and illegally refusing to hand money back to customers

Why? because they are already bankrupt, but continue to trade whilst insolvent

They are part owned by British Airways (who will last another month at the most)

Lockdown_Lunacy
Lockdown_Lunacy
5 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

Vueling has never been a great company, but that’s not correct.

Both British Airways and Vueling are owned by IAG. IAG will still be around next month. I don’t understand what your personal grudge against an airline has to do with lockdown sceptiscm anyway.

Cecil B
Cecil B
5 years ago

Look at their share price. They will be gone.

Cecil B
Cecil B
5 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

The grudge comes from them stealing my money under the guise of lockdown

Lockdown_Lunacy
Lockdown_Lunacy
5 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

Well, I would say that your anger is misdirected. Although owned by the same holding company, Vueling and BA have practically nothing to do with one another on a day to day operational basis.

BA employs 10s of thousands in this country, willing them to go bust over the behaviour of a distant cousin with a bad reputation anyway is pointless.

Lockdown_Lunacy
Lockdown_Lunacy
5 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

How much are you willing to bet?

davews
davews
5 years ago

My daily five minutes of R4 Today was enough to tell me the media are in full out panic mode. Sad to think most of Jo Public believe everything said. ‘Stop the spread’ has now become academic, the virus has finished its spreading and turn the PCR cycles up a few more notches and we will all test positive.

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  davews

Day off today so no Radio 4 for me😁

OKUK
OKUK
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Radio 4 isn’t for you. It’s specifically designed for uncritical thinkers who believe everything they’re told by Nick, Mishal, Andy, Emma, Mark, Adam, Evan, and the rest.

Cecil B
Cecil B
5 years ago
Reply to  davews

Why do you listen to this shit in the first place?

steve_w
steve_w
5 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

to know what the enemy is thinking

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  steve_w

Absolutely, I believe myself to be grounded enough to be immune to their nonsense and when talking to victims of unscrupulous propaganda it is helpful to know what they are being told.

nottingham69
nottingham69
5 years ago
Reply to  steve_w

Yes just listened to the voice of politics Reeves interviewed by Robinson on Radio 4. The circuit break to take the fictional r number below one, full state control of track, trace and control, irrelevant when the tests are a bag of crap, illustrated with fake positive case and death stats. So really in conclusion shutting business down because your public union masters want more free money for nothing for their members.

wendyk
wendyk
5 years ago

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/a-medic-s-case-against-another-lockdown

A very powerful article on the futility of lockdown by a Canadian doctor.

Once again the notion of informed consent is considered, along with’ do no harm’.

I’ve got a swarm of bees in my bonnet about this, as our informed consent has neither been sought, nor given.

Adamb
Adamb
5 years ago
Reply to  wendyk

Just about to post the link myself, outstanding article.

wendyk
wendyk
5 years ago
Reply to  Adamb

One of the best.

karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  wendyk

Excellent article, very good on specifics confirming what we already knew.

Don’t wish to be picky but he misused the word ‘prove’ which in that usage means ‘to test or challenge’, he should have said validated.

Mel
Mel
5 years ago
Reply to  wendyk

Me too. I was literally thinking of all of these things to respond to a friend of ours, who’s constant refrain on covid amounts to “but we all need to lock down cos my parents are vulnerable” and found the whole thing I had been composing in my head had already been written.

I am utterly, utterly sick of being for lockdowns being characterized as being on the side of the angels, and being against being characterized as let her rip, its the economy innit.

The debate needs to be reframed. Focused protection and the quarantining of SICK people has been the recommended approach of evidence based medicine for many years. Lockdown and the sequestering of the healthy population is the untried gamble with public health.

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