There follows a guest post by Dr. David McGrogan, an Associate Professor at Northumbria Law School, about whether the OGs of the lockdown sceptics’ movement should welcome repentant sinners or shun them as bandwagon jumpers.
At the end of March 2020, I saw an opinion poll result (I wish I could remember where) which indicated 93% of population of the U.K. were in favour of the lockdown that had just been introduced.
I was in the other 7%. In future years, I’ll have to find some way to convey to my kids the nature of that feeling – the strange combination of befuddlement and disappointment that results from watching everybody you know not only going completely mad, but convincing themselves they are being virtuous in doing so. It was like being a lemming, watching its thousands of brethren suddenly getting together and flinging themselves off the nearest cliff into the broiling sea as though it was the most natural and sensible thing to do in all the world. I just couldn’t fathom that anybody might think this bizarre experiment would work – and yet it seemed everybody did. In retrospect, of course, the very unanimity and certainty with which people approached lockdown was itself indicative that something very strange was going on in those heady days of spring 2020. What complex public policy decision in a liberal democracy ever achieves 93% approval in an opinion poll? The truth is, this had nothing to do with reasoned ‘opinion’. It was mass panic.
Thankfully, the national mood is now very different. I don’t believe that things have swung, or ever will swing, to near unanimity against lockdown. But it is now ever more common to encounter the sentiment, ‘Never again.’ People who were zealously in favour of Lockdown 1, Lockdown 2, and Lockdown 3 are now repenting in their droves. The question for us hardened sceptics – the Spartans, the Immortals, the Originals, the Old Guard – is what to do with these prodigal sons and daughters. Do we welcome them with open arms, fatted calf at the ready? Or do we churlishly dismiss them from our doors as accomplices in what will inevitably come to be seen as one of the worst public policy mistakes in history?
The truth of the matter is, we have to think strategically. There must never be another lockdown, in any circumstance. The consequences for our society, our children, our communities, would be too severe. This foolish, inhumane policy must forever be consigned to oblivion. And in order to ensure that it is, we need as broad a coalition of the public as possible. At the time of the first lockdown, I remember thinking that all political differences – left and right, Labour and Conservative, Leave and Remain – were completely irrelevant when set against the division between pro- and anti-lockdown. If you were against lockdowns, you were one of the good guys, whether you were Giorgio Agamben or James Delingpole. And this mode of thinking, I believe, still has to apply, and apply in perpetuity. Whatever one’s background, and whatever one thought in 2020-21, if you would be against the reintroduction of Covid restrictions in the future, you are in the right tent. You can be in the gang and you can sit at the table. We need you.
This will require some gritting of teeth, no doubt. If you, like me, were always against lockdowns, it is galling to say the least to now be told things (“Not all Covid deaths are deaths ‘from’ Covid”, “Not everybody who is hospitalised ‘with’ Covid is being primarily treated for Covid”, etc.) that one has known about since March 2020. It is profoundly irritating to be told “We just have to live with it now” when all you ever wanted was for that to be the case. It is exasperating to have to accept that even those who have come to adopt an anti-lockdown position will probably always think the first lockdown was a) necessary and b) ‘worked’. I understand all that perfectly well. But the task now is to focus on the bigger picture: changing what I am compelled to call ‘hearts and minds’ so as to make completely sure that lockdown never, ever happens again.
Stop Press: Dan Hannan has a good piece in the Telegraph praising those who called the lockdowns right back in March of 2020.
Few commentators came out against the restrictions in March 2020, among them: Toby Young, Fraser Nelson, Jonathan Sumption, Matthew Parris, Freddie Sayers, Janet Daley, Julia Hartley-Brewer, James Delingpole, Peter Hitchens, Ross Clark and, soon afterwards, Allison Pearson.
Back in that sun-drenched, terrified, illiberal spring, no dissent was permitted. Even to point out that an alternative approach was possible – and visible in Sweden – was to court vilification. When Toby Young wrote that we habitually did put a value on human life via the recognised formula for calculating quality-adjusted life-years, that we used it whenever medical interventions were proposed, and that we should apply the same test to lockdowns, he became a national hate figure, howled down as some sort of eugenicist.
The odium was overwhelmingly one-way. Lockdown sceptics did not respond by accusing their opponents of aiming to destroy children’s education, or of being indifferent to mental illness, or of wanting others to die of cancer. Nor did they accuse them of being “anti-science”.
Worth reading in full.
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A convert is a convert, no matter how tardy.
Sanity is sanity, no matter how long you were mad for.
Welcome them all.
But never forget.
ideally we need to expand the movement so that those who now believe that lockdowns should stop also see that even the first lockdown wasn’t necessary as the numbers were already coming down. Otherwise the initial knee jerk reaction to the next pandemic will be to lockdown again. Any ideas on how to do that?
The only thing we can do is to make an oath to ourselves that we will never comply with any state sanctioned public health measure ever again, no matter how trivial or expedient. We can guide others towards personal freedom but only truly claim it for ourselves I think.
“Truth and Reconciliation, but Alienation of those who inflicted the Panic”
Exactly right. Ordinary people who were terrorised into compliance should be welcomed and comforted. But the ones who deliberately drove the panic – they really do need to be held to account publicly, preferably with prosecutions.
That would annihilate the MSM.
alienation hell, the rest of their lives in some high max prison at least for the pretty much incalculable damage they inflicted
The toll of “vaccine” injuries and deaths is rising. Once people wonder how they were persuaded to have themselves and their children injected, they might be willing to consider the tactics of coercion and indoctrination (like lockdown and masking).
And the vaccines were sold as “the way out of lockdown” and even on GB news you will hear stuff along the lines of “we don’t need to lock down again because the vaccine roll out was so efficient and successful and the UK is ahead of the rest of the world in that.”
And a lot of people who don’t advocate locking down again are very pro the vaccine and do not acknowledge that the vaccine was only possible because of the fraud involved in the suppression of the early, safe and effective treatments, and the cancellation and besmirching of the reputations of those who advocated their use. Nor do they fully appreciate the harms the vaccines have done or will do in the future, the extent of which can only be guessed at.
While I believe that the sinner who repents should be accepted into the fold, there will always be a question mark as far as I am concerned about 2 things A) the Jeremy Vine type – in a very good position to KNOW BETTER but still advocated lock us up harder, for longer, at the first excuse – hard to forgive someone like him saying he was always a LDS and B) what happens next pandemic round – if it is something different, like smallpox, they will try to lock us down again, and where will those repentant sinners be then?
So what I am saying in essence is, forgiveness and acceptance into the fold is not unqualified – those people will always have an asterisk beside their name to me.
Except that they may not be converts in the true sense of the word, simply people with enough insight to recognise the tide turning and distance themselves from their previous pronouncements.
For me, some of the things said by MSM figures throughout this, inciting hatred and mockery against the sceptical is unforgiveable.
AND you can just see Vine and co queing up to do it all over again next time.
Edit @stewart puts it much better than I could, further down the page.
Yes there is a lot of back-side covering going on.
Just as from June 1944 onwards the entire population of France had been in the Resistance.
Just how do asses go about ass-covering?
By pretending that we’ve jabbed our way to freedom, just need to get all the kids injected now. https://www.stalbansreview.co.uk/news/19900595.plans-pipeline-vaccinate-primary-school-children/
With a mask!
Especially an ass the size of Vine
With you.
Seeing the light, repentance, converts ….
Thing is – and to be wary/mindful of – it is not that sense has prevailed as such.
People have not seen the light, insofar as their eyes have remained tightly shut – but a light (growing stronger) has been switched on, and this light penetrates the eyelids.
People are not having a mass epiphany, or something. These people lack the ability to ‘move’ of their own volition; they are as tiny sea creatures unable to resist the tide – now being carried back with the tide, as they were carried along when the tide went out.
Maybe this is not entirely so in every case, but in the main I believe it is.
So, while it has to be that these are ‘welcomed aboard’, they will never truly be part of the crew.
“‘welcomed aboard’, they will never truly be part of the crew.”
Nails it!
I don’t know when it comes to Vine whether this applies. He was tweeting way back in 2020 about the situation between 2 states in Australia, where 4 babies had died because they needed to cross a state line to get the treatment that one hospital could offer them in order to save their lives. But they weren’t allowed to get there. He was obviously as horrified as we all were that this could be allowed to happen. He clearly understood that the whole situation was wrong.
And then he remembered his pay cheque, and got back in line. No principles at all, except money.
But the “just welcome them all” trope is annoyingly simplistic.
Simplistic because the reality is there are times and cases where “forgive and forget” welcoming is appropriate, and times when it is not, and many (perhaps most) where it is to some extent appropriate but only up to a point.
Annoyingly so because it will inevitably be used as a hammer to beat at those who point out the latter occasions.
One basic fallacy is the idea that every one is coming over to our side. Even leaving out the fact that “our side” covers a multitude of positions, the reality is that most are coming to the position that mandates are wrong and that lockdowns are now wrong – relatively few so far are accepting that the whole panic was wrong in March 2020 and that lockdowns and mandates must be forbidden from the toolbox of state policy forever, along with behavioural and opinion and speech manipulation.
With family a different approach is suitable than with friends, and a different approach again is appropriate for public figures. One of the problems is dealing with the unprincipled, who switch from one side to the other according to opportunity or momentary opinion. The problem with just forgiving and forgetting is that they then retain their positions of credibility and influence ready to do harm again next time. There’s a range of such people, from the likes of Piers Morgan to Christopher Snowdon and Dan Hodges.
The temptation is to accept them when they are momentarily on your side, just setting them up for the inevitable betrayal when they decide they are better served on the other side. Pragmatism indeed often argues for accepting them, but realism should also mitigate against trusting them fully again.
And yes, there is a need to build broad coalitions, but that still has to be tempered with the need to build an honest one, and not betray the whole thing. Unlike a real tent, perhaps, when a political tent gets too big, it no longer serves the purpose it was intended for.
Very well said Mark.
In order for this never to happen again, we must hold those who shouted loudest accountable. The MSM in particular are hugely to blame, and there needs to be a ‘public discussion’ and debate about the way in which the MSM have operated hand in glove with Government.
I admit I am still very angry, and feel let down by most of my fellow citizens. That feeling of utter disbelief and dismay at what was, and STILL IS happening around me will haunt me forever. I do not want my children to ever live through anything like this ever again. So I am not ready to just accept these folk into the fold. I understand that they were scared out of their wits and under mass formation, but if they are starting to wake up now, they need to seriously reflect on what they were actively engaging in. That’s the only way for this never to happen again. We need to show them the insanity of their actions, people tend to disassociate themselves for negative actions.. I didn’t do that.. close off children’s playgrounds, follow arrows around a supermarket, etc etc
Just to add, I still have friends who are deep in this crazy covid game, testing themselves & their kids relentlessly, wearing masks, and thinking vaccine passports are keeping people safe and are not an infringement on liberties. It’s not over yet, not by a long shot.
Agreed. Many people, possibly most, will go to great psychological lengths and employ all sorts of defences from denial to dissociation to projection to outright lying to avoid feeling a deep sense of humiliation, guilt, shame, or stupidity. Particularly when it comes to admitting they’ve not only harmed themselves, but they’ve harmed their children too. Don’t expect too many people to come round to admitting that ALL of it (the lockdowns, the vaccinations, the changes to the law and the curtailing of people’s rights, the fines, the masks the testing etc etc) was not only unnecessary but profoundly harmful on both individual and societal levels, and by going along with it without even a shred of resistance they are complicit in that harm. Any shame they do feel is absolutely justified, and I for one have no sympathy for them. They have helped to ruin the UK and our foreseeable future.
Yes, as the saying goes,”It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled”.
Dante, You have read my mind …I could not put “it” more succinctly, especially your comments about your children. Life for me is ALL about Family and I struggle to think in anything but a very very angry and vindictive manner towards those who have agreed to subject “innocent” children to this entire “Panic”…but then “we” have to have some compassion surely? We should not commit the same moral “crime” as those we don’t appreciate for doing the exact same thing – having no compassion?
There will be no recantation from the BBC or Guardian, the Gestapo and Stormtroopers of Lockdown.
Very wise words Mark.
They’re publicity mercenaries which is why they are ‘seeing the light’ now. But if the Establishment goes down the ‘let’s act like Nazis’ route again they’ll all be hanging on the approved narrative coat tails once again
I agree, but I would caution against thinking in terms of “sides” – just like in the Vietnam conflict, where the US found that “sides” was a very blurred distinction adopted at their peril – in reality there are no sides; “We, the People” have ALL been affected to a lesser or greater degree, and some will never understand that because they paid the “ultimate” price as a direct consequence of the “Panic”.
I would lie to propose the “Profumo Award” to all those instigators, proponents and deliverers of the “Panic” if they can demonstrate a tad of moral courage, admit they were wrong BUT then devote themselves to helping, in some way, those people damaged by their complicity – the long term adverse effects of these jabs may turn out to be less harmful but I sincerely doubt it from the testimony, knowledge and experience of clinicians in the field. It would be uplifting to see that contrition take hold – the sceptical cynic part of me does not hold out much hope.
The trouble is, the willingness to go into lockdown and abandon everything western civilisation stood for was a symptom of a much deeper malaise. Some are waking up to the catastrophic harm, but few are curing themselves of the underlying malaise – the infantile faith in the Big State to be our mummy and daddy, the addiction to self-righteous ways of thinking, the belief that technology can better created Nature and solve all problems, the moral vacuum at the heart of politics and all society.
I agree – my experience of it was that so many people of my acquaintance actively welcomed it (lockdown 1) – the weather was good, it was like an extended paid holiday, time with the kids, working from home in their pyjamas (“I got so much more done in much less time than I would from the office – WLT work from home for ever”), time to take up new hobbies (‘baking banana bread’), got on with the gardening and the DIY, the benefits of being furloughed…. I could go on…..
It was all a bit of a lark for quite a few people. The MSM encouraged it at every turn – recipes, gardening tips, we’re all in it together etc. The weather made it acceptable and if you were paid a salary) as opposed to being self-employed or in the hospitality trade then there was a lot to like. Those more unfortunate just had to get on with it at great cost to their health.
It is so sad. My brothers and my sister, each pro mask, ‘vaccine’ and completely fine with jabbing and the call for young ones to be offered up to the altar of pharma trials.
I won’t disown them, but I regard my siblings now as forever very different people to me. This can not be undone – and it is quite profound. It’s like I have had something rudely taken from me.
I know what you mean. My parents and my sister are all invested fully and completely in the covid cult.
This was what my sister posted on Facebook yesterday and it broke my heart. I feel deeply alienated from my entire family
That’s really sad. I’m so sorry for you. There are times when having no close family (apart from my OH and children) is a very acceptable state of affairs.
What’s OH, by the way? I haven’t been able to work it out.
Other half… In my case my husband!
Aha! Thanks for the clarification – I just couldn’t work it out. I’ve been thinking about your comment “There’s a time when having no close family is a very acceptable state of affairs.” I have to agree. This would have been much more of a struggle if I had to interact with them regularly. I’ve decided to put it all out of my mind as best I can as it does me no favours knowing that my family is completely brainwashed. I don’t plan on having anymore communications with them unless I see some evidence they’ve started to wake up.
I had a hard time dealing with elderly relatives over quite a few years and learned to practise “benign acceptance” ie say nothing but acknowledge inwardly that they are irritating/stupid/wrong/deluded/fill in the blank. Change the subject as soon as you can. It’s hard to do at first but gets easier and doesn’t lead to arguments. Accept what you can’t change and try to let it wash over you. It’s tough really but possible.
Yes – I can empathise fully with you. I am the only outlier in my whole extended family – they are all fully fledged cult members and it takes a huge amount of work on my part plus a lot of gritting of teeth to maintain my relationships with them.
I too have family in France and my youngest nephew was the same when he turned 12 – all I could do was pray that he would be ok – all my nephews are super sporty, and I live in dread of the news of one of them collapsing on the football or rugby pitch with myocarditis.
Thanks for your reply. I know there’s other people like me out there, but it’s a big deal for me to hear from them and know they exist.
I’ve followed your comments elsewhere, Milo. You’re a good guy and I enjoy reading what you have to say.
I’m just going to try my level best to forget about my family. They’re all off in the Lala land of the cult and I don’t have anything more to say to them. It just leads to arguments anyway. It’s a massive emotional drain with no result. The family I knew doesn’t exist anymore.
It is very sad when you can no longer have reasonable conversations with your family. I only have my adult children and my husband who’s slowly changing his mind about LD but pretending he was always against it and not having a third vaccination as now he’s not sure about it all… Adult children are all vaccinated and one of them, who lives in Spain, did phone and plead with me to get vaccinated – I haven’t and don’t intend to. Another of them is getting married soon and hopes to have children but I’m concerned they won’t be able to as they’re both vaccinated to the hilt. I bite my tongue but am grateful for sites like this where I know there are other people who are going through the same scenarios. We have to stay strong but it’s draining as you say. Best wishes.
Thanks Gefion. It is really important that we can connect here. I don’t have children and I can’t claim to know what you feel or what you’ve had to deal with. It must be hard having a kid on the phone begging you to come to Satan.
Stay strong and stay here. For now, we’ve got this!
Watch the top article! I’m gonna post some good stuff there!
Thank you Steve.
My feelings exactly.
There’s a sickness at the heart of society and it’s nothing to do with Covid.
Very well said; I hope those so afflicted get to have their “Colonel Nicholson” moment..without the Bridge blowing up in their faces…
But “it is not over” yet…
Wrong. We must always be aware of those who have no moral compass or conviction to truth. Look how Brexit has been destroyed. We voted to leave the EU which meant controlled borders, low taxation, taking our rightful fisheries back and Repairing our marine environment. Leaving the EU meant no more ECJ or Arrest Warrant. No more sending money to foreign politicians to waste on war.
what did we get…..the same deckchairs rearranged because they said they had understood our Vote and would honour it. But they haven’t honoured it. They are creating policies to break up the UK which was always an EU dream. We have mire immigration than ever and our judiciary is itself to European Elite Club. Our Common Law which protected the common people is being ransacked and our freedom being stolen.
WAKE UP
“We will remember THOSE WHO COMPLIED”
“repenting in their droves”
Can’t think of one person who has tbh. Not one, worldwide.
Omicron has allowed them to claim victory, lockdown worked against Delta and with Omi is no longer needed they claim. There’s plenty of evidence otherwise that LD was the wrong decision but they will just shuffle those pages to the back and carry on.
Very true
Yes, that and the clotshots – even now a large proportion (probably a significant majority) of the population remains convinced that these are “safe and effective” and that because of them lockdowns are no longer such a necessary response.
They are still banging the drum for the jab!
Aren’t they just??? As many as recommended and ASAP.
No. They will instead explain how right they were to do whatever they did…
Jordan Peterson?
“Here’s the deal, I’ll get the vaccine, you fucking leave me alone. And did that work? No! So, stupid me.”
https://twitter.com/i/status/1458462822522753025
Jordan Peterson is a rare breed, he has the strength of character to admit when he was wrong, not many like him sadly.
I, for one, very much admire and respect Jordan Peterson.
Me too; he is a very deep thinker and manifestly “sincere according to truth”, imho of course.
Yes, it strikes me more as a case of pivoting than anything else.
Does anyone have any good examples?
I think the big difference is between those who admit that they were wrong from the start until whenever they reaslised this (they do exist, but there aren’t many of them), and those who say that lockdowns are no longer necessary because of virus mutation making it milder and/or because of the “safe and effective” clotshots. This (large) latter group are ripe for more bedwetting next time the government starts pushing propaganda about the next “deadly” virus.
Would it not be great for certain currently malevolent billionaires to have some kind of Damascene conversion and devote their ill gotten gains to repair the damage they have inflicted – rose tinted view for sure; but I think a full on psyops campaign should be started and directed at them; use what they have weaponised AGAINST them, convert what they see as their strength in tp a weakness. I would start with pictures of injectees with a needle being stuck in their arms ( I initial typed children but that might be OTT) on one side of the poster and a lockdown socially distanced funeral behind a giant plastic screen with family members looking on with “Don’t tell me this did not happen” and quoting VAERS/Yellow Card/Eurosurveillance data ..
As a test of the MSM’s contrition, would it not be great to see them accept full page spreads of some of the mocked up posters seen on this blog, paid by crowdfunding ( but not via GFM…..) or a sceptic with deep pockets, or GB News…
This was precisely my thought. Of all my family and close friends, I can’t think of a one who has changed their point of view.
And the struggle is sharpening most recently with the fracturing of relationships.
They are all focused on what a hero Neil Young and Joni Mitchell are for demanding more censorship and they are screaming for the extremist truckers freedom rally to be ended post-haste.
In my personal life, I have not seen any evidence of what the writer is discussing.
And the longer this goes on, the more remote the likelihood of forgiveness being possible. Society is slipping into full-blown Nazism and I’m witnessing it in those who I have held near and dear.
But I can’t save those who don’t want saying and as their positions become increasingly criminal, forgiving and forgetting because ever more practicable.
I think for a lot of us, this is deeply personal, and it’s not so simple as forgive and forget. And what forgiveness is possible for people who don’t even see the immorality and illiberal ism of their actions and behaviour. As for forgetting, we’ve just about completely Nazi Germany, which is why it has suddenly become possible to reproduce it again. I won’t be forgetting this.
This effect is nothing new. Since the dawn of history humans have gone mad in droves, done stupid things as a mob, then slowly and shamefacedly repented, returned home, tried to forget about it and then repeated the process in a few years time.
Charlie Mackay wrote an excellent book about it in 1840 – “Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds”. We didn’t learn from that, and we won’t learn from this.
People supported the South Sea Bubble and the Darien scheme. People are still madly supporting the belief that CO2 is causing Global Warming, in spite of data showing the opposite. People are supporting insane woke political decisions. People will keep doing stupid things until they die, and the next generation will go on to repeat this. It’s what being a human is all about…
I bought this book back in 2001 or so, after the dot com crash. This was another streak of lunacy that I never understood.
I need to find a way to profit from this madness better, as I seem strangely unsusceptible to it.
The trick is to see which particular madness is coming, and be there selling tickets when it arrives.
Ha know exactly what you mean. I think there’s a decent sized population of sceptics in the dystopian new world though; I suppose that’s where efforts in enterprise need to be focused!
Charlie Mackay wrote an excellent book about it in 1840 – “Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds”.
The key quote that’s germane to your post is, I think, this one:
“Men, think in herds; they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.”
You’ve reminded me (across 50 years) of “Crowds and Power” by Elias Canetti. It is extraordinary. From Wikipedia: “… it reads like a manual written by someone outside the human race explaining to another outsider in concise and highly metaphoric language how people form mobs and manipulate power” … “seething with anger” (from Wikipedia).
Thanks! I’m going to give that a read!
I’ll “forgive” them for expediency’s sake, but deep down I will always despise them…even the ones I love, who implied I was the nutter back in March 2020, and know I was right now….there’s something in me now that makes me think that they’re a fool and not to be trusted in a crisis.
I can count on one hand the people in real life who’ve been with me since the start. Those few have gone up immeasurably in my estimation.
Two of my siblings put up posts clearly directed at me, talking of ‘Covid deniers’ and those who ‘don’t care about old people’.
Fortunately, scepticism is genetic in my family. Mother, sister, both brothers…we all thought it was bollocks.
My mother was a vaccine believer though (until last week, she’s suddenly woken up from that), and my sister took it “to go on holiday”, and doesn’t care about the risk fo side effects.
It’s my husband who has disappointed somewhat. He thought I was a loony at first. For about 2-3 weeks. He very quickly came around (fortunately for him, I think it might have been divorce otherwise), but he wears masks (because it’s the law), and got vaccinated to go skiing. He glazed over when I try to explain ADE to him, and why we needed to wait 2-3 years before we knew how much of a risk it would be (and this was a year ago…before we knew how dangerous the vaccines were even without ADE).
He may not be going skiing anyway now because he has tested positive AGAIN and so has my son. HAHAHA. I’m trying hard not to say “told you so”. Neither is unwell.
‘Neither is unwell’. Of course
Very best wishes. In my immediate family, husband and adult daughter feel as I do. Adult son doesn’t. It’s been very difficult, and has affected our relationship, to my great unhappiness, and his too….
And it continues. Only a couple of weeks ago my grown son and daughter were questioning the mental health of my wife, their sister, and me because we wanted to wait until 2023 when clinical trials of the mRNA drugs were completed.
They are utterly blind to the evidence emerging that the whole thing was a huge mistake (deliberate or otherwise) and they hold the same opinion over climate change.
Whilst my wife is a senior health professional and academic, my daughter is a very well qualified scientist who has swallowed the whole thing, hook, line and sinker.
It has similarly affected our relationships, however, I’m certain it will fade into the distance with time, especially when the mainstream begin backpedalling.
Few recognise that Thalidomide represented a sea change in the approach to medicine safety, and is the very reason clinical trials take so long and are so detailed.
Whilst I agree the clinical trial process could probably benefit from concurrent studies instead of the traditional sequential process, no one will ever convince me that 10 years of clinical trials can be crammed into a few months.
The argument for [10] years of clinical trials is far simpler than this. It is not a matter of the numbers and complexities of the clinical trials required. The point is that every individual person in the initial trial phase (including placebo recipients) would in the past have been monitored over that [10] year period in order to identify any warning signals occurring within that whole time frame; before taking the risk of rolling out the vaccine (or whatever medical treatment is being developed) for use in the wider population. .
As well as providing the opportunity to identify short-,mid-, and long-term effects, it also allows for any other more obscurely caused adverse effects to come to light e.g. drug-drug interactions. Also, after a few years, might there be more cases of cancer or other illnesses in the patients receiving the true vaccine than in the placebo group? All these things have to be evaluated and, unless this is done properly and thoroughly, the vaccine recipients are all participating in ongoing trials, with or without their informed consent.. The one thing that cannot be curtailed in such trials is the passage of time itself.
Should add that, with regards to the question of an extended trial period, there is particularly importantly the need to monitor such things as the physical, metabolic, genetic and mental impact on children born to anyone who has had the vaccine, some of the adverse signs of which might not become evident until the children reach a certain age.
excellent posts DD – thanks for the explanation – will be useful when trying to explain to the “rush to jab” fanatics why I am waiting.!
“no one will ever convince me that 10 years of clinical trials can be crammed into a few months.”
my thoughts exactly, and why I still remain unvaccinated, especially so now that I’ve just had and recovered from CV19.
congratulations on attaining your natural immunity – hold on to it as hard as you can!
Jennie Harries/MHRA unequivocally stated to the contrary, if you recall various press briefings….
Still, not being a scientist, I am with you RHS, and nothing will persuade me otherwise. How on this earth can time be suppressed to simulate the effects on the human body of a “novel” drug which naturally develop over time.
Cue an out of work faux so called Epidemiological scientist to model that scenario ….with future “vaccines” rushed for a new “novel” virus..
You trust the tests?
Haha and that’s another thing – 3 out of around 20 of our usual ski group couldn’t go with 2 days notice because of +ve ‘tests’. None of them ill, disappointed about missing their holiday and I doubt the insurance would pay out….
Same as you, family of sceptics except hubby. Sadly mine still hasn’t come round – he is utterly brainwashed and believes like most that Omicron and the injections finally saved us. He also wants to go skiing and I have said go without me, he has a group of ski buddies to go with. But no – he won’t go sans wifey and prefers to blame jab-free me for his inability to go on holiday rather than those that have made the stupid, illogical rules.
My wife looked astounded when I said I wouldn’t have the booster to go abroad. It was as if I had been making up all my concerns or was deluded.
I was prepared to lose a substantial amount of money that we’d paid for a cruise holiday back in 2020, rather than get vaccinated.
I had to write to the company Managing director to get our money back, but there’s no way I was going to risk the vaccine side effects just for a holiday.
That all sounds dreadful. I wish I could promise you that you would be vindicated but I don’t know if any of us ever will. We’re a major problem amongst the brainwashed majority because we draw attention, without even meaning to, to their logical fallacies. The best thing to do I suppose is talk to like-minded people and wait for the house of cards to collapse.
I don’t think the house of cards collapses by itself, or not for a long time, without actively, constantly speaking up about the truth. My experience is that it works slowly but it works. And the effect is exponential, which means slow and imperceptible at first but takes off quickly. Once one person gets it, they start speaking up.
But I guess it goes with personality. I just can’t help not calling out BS, whatever kind. If done with enough humour, you can get away with it without pissing people off too much.
Sadly, I share your experience with my spouse.
Similar stories must have been played out in millions of households, I know quite a few families who have come under immense strain because the spouses’ opinions differed. I’m glad he came around.
I’ve had phases in which I’ve been criticised for overreacting or being too pessimistic, but my wife and I have remained largely on the same page. She admitted the other day that she thought I might have saved her life by being so opposed to the vaccines, and she thought that if she’d been single or in a different relationship she might have fallen for it. She didn’t like admitting that!!
Ultimately this has shown what we’re all really made of as individuals and it’s the core programming that determines how we reacted to it. You can’t learn to be a critical thinker, you either are or you aren’t; evolution seems to have stacked it that way. If we’d all been like us in the Stone Age, nothing would ever have got done because no one would have trusted the leader!
Your final sentence sums it up quite neatly CG. This tribe on here might have made progress if we found each other but then again maybe not.
I am at best a contrarian, although some would call me simply an awkward bugger. Probably like many on here if I disagree with something I let my differences be known and if things don’t suit I walk away and do my own thing. So while I might join the tribe I equally might leave. Basically I don’t like being told what to do, compliance is not one of my strong points.
I love that. Your contrarianism has served you well HP. It’s a trait I’ve always had too. If a room full of people believe strongly that it’s up, I’m certain it’s down. What the last two years have given us is an opportunity to put this quality to the test in a live exercise! Paradoxically I’m also traditionally non-confrontational and nervous; this is a side of my personality I’ve really had to work on during the plandemic.
Am I confrontational? More often than not. Sometimes I like to lob a grenade just for the hell of it. However, I do occasionally suffer from nervousness. I like to think I do my research and refrain from opinion / comment on a subject I have not studied.
Like most of us on here I knew before I found DS that my view that we were living through an enormous, evil Scamdemic was the correct one. Joining DS meant that I had found like-minded people but if I hadn’t landed here my views would not have changed.
That’s some deep sh*t right there.
I’m not so sure though. I don’t think anything has advanced humanity more than the principle of free exchange. As an individualist and (i’d like to believe) critical thinker, I’m perfectly capable of rallying behind a leader in pursuit of a common interest.
I just don’t go for coercion. And while I think coercion can get results, I don’t think it works as well. But more importantly, I think you end up pursuing the wrong goals and so the wrong results.
The world would be much better if people were more individualistic (and decent, which isn’t mutually exclusive).
With you Stewart.
Comments about divided families make me feel sorrow, hope they get back together one day and thankfulness ours hasn’t changed. I and nearest relatives freely share info between us and know not made same decisions.
‘Blood is thicker than water’ and ‘together we stand, divided we fall.’
Decades ago, the 3 of us were suddenly landed in a tragic situation. ‘World and its uncle’ ran away from disaster; all ‘friends’ and relatives abandoned us, zero help from anyone anywhere.
Personal differences between the 3 of us suddenly became trivial. We instinctively ‘glued’ together; got through tragedy, survived beyond, studied while working, eventually reasonable careers, became geographically widely dispersed; overtly appearing not at all close.
However, on the rare occasions when one lands in a situation cannot handle alone, other 2 immediately drop everything in middle of and go to help; automatically straight back to ‘the 3 of us’ surviving times of trouble.
In retrospect, it seems a miracle we survived that tragedy long ago. There’s no knowing whether or not we’d have stuck together now if that unusually severe test hadn’t happened to us. ‘Every cloud has a silver lining’?
My sister told me that since I was unjabbed she wouldn’t be seeing me …. “family policy” she made upon the spot. It lasted about 4 weeks, until she needed some help from me
Exigency trumps made-up policy.
You should’ve told her to eff off
That’s so sad
Killing granny. I have done a lot of work bumping off all the biddies on the tube and Busses.
Wow, that’s tough. I feel your pain!
Well, they belong to those who ‘don’t care about young people’.
Or the poor, for that matter, either in your country or across what used to be known as the Third World.
I’m still waiting!
Me too. I know no-one who is ready to admit they’ve been soundly conned. Although a few did come up with spurious reasons as to why they didn’t think they’d go for a booster.
Although sceptical, I agreed with the first lockdown. A momentary pause to see what direction this was heading in. I complied simply because it was easy for me to do so although I didn’t bother with the mask and social distancing nonsense. Had I been part of the gig economy though, I suspect I would have felt very different.
I surmised that if scientists couldn’t figure out what was going on over those first weeks, they never would. And so it proved, they still don’t know what’s going on principally because this is a man made virus.
With that in mind, governments panicked because they knew full well the potential of a manufactured bio weapon. Every country has it’s own labs doing the same as Wuhan. Porton Down isn’t developing novel knitting patterns.
Every government was told by its scientists in no uncertain terms that covid could be the deadliest thing since ebola. Of that I am utterly convinced.
That’s the dirty secret we are still not being told.
This is not about a virus.
You got that right!
They may be, if it’s novel viruses they’re knitting together.
They have the British made VX there, and the SAREN (think it’s spelled correctly) That the Allies discovered in 1945 in Germany.
And they made the press a few years ago when some Russian agents tried to assassinate Sergei Skripal. At least they didn’t far to travel given where it happened!
Indeed RHS, and I just read a lengthy article yesterday about how the WHO was operating hand in and and lock step with China, to cover up the leak and promote the response.
The leader of the WHO does not have a medical background and yet his pronouncements on all of this have been treated as holy writ.
“Although sceptical, I agreed with the first lockdown.”
Do you still think you were right to think so?
Lockdown , AFAIAC, was all about controlling people but nothing to do with health. It only would have “worked” if at all by strict quarantine but how do you control an animal reservoir ( if the man developed/assembled chimera did really come from a bat and a rat + furin cleavage site modification) virus – people were still allowed to mix with utterly useless masks – which appear to be now accepted as a device for converting virus populated material, as water droplets, into aerosol and therefore were always a superspreader – however limited the occasion. Never saw the logic there, still don’t.
The GBD which I signed seemed to my non scientific mind the logical way to go – and is it not toe curling to hear tptb crawl ever so slowly towards that position?
Same here – and, worse than that, the region I live in seems to have a dreadful case of “compliance-itis” – every man jack of them has been boosted, some of them suffering quite badly afterwards, and most likely because of the fear stoked up totally needlessly about Omicron.
Agreed.
Its equal parts saddening, frustrating, embarassing and occasionally amusing.
Revenge is a dish best served cold, and life/karma/fate/god/the universe has a funny way of catching up with you eventually, in one way or another, so just deserts may be served in time (despite certain awful individuals seemingly alive and well.)
As the great lyricist (?) Baz Luhrman said: The race is long, and in the end, its only with yourself.
It was an intelligence test and most failed!
and are still failing!
I know how you feel. I don’t despise my siblings (though they have royally pissed me off), but my relationship with them can never be as it was – not because I chose that, it’s just the way it is. Things have shifted out of phase from the Life Before.
My answer is a categorical NO.
The problem is that most of these “converts” are still in full psychotic mode because they believe covid vaccines are ending the ‘pandemic’, think covid was really dangerous, don’t acknowledge these jabs are the most dangerous ever, probably think masks do something and relentlessly test themselves.
I don’t believe they are coverts so much as people who feel they have paid their toll with their jabs and compliance are fed up and so now are making themselves believe all the policies worked, except lockdown.
I accept the repentance only of those who admit the entire thing was an overreaction and a full return to life pre covid. Anything less and they can stuff themselves, because otherwise we will be saddled with some of the craziness for ever.
I don’t need to accept them to avoid future lockdowns. I already know that isn’t coming back. I’m worried about all the other crap that is still with us and is much more likely to persist.
Absolutely, it sticks in the back of my throat to hear them say that the vaccines are what got us out of this and the lockdowns were justified (but we won’t do it again) because we didn’t know much about this novel disease and we had no vaccines.
NO NO NO
The data was all there very early on, you just didn’t want to see it, there was no debate, it was actively shut down, hell that’s still happening. And the vaccines, don’t get me started.
And I still worry about lockdowns, the fact that the maniacal Sturgeon wants to put in law that she can close schools, enforce medical quarantine and TREATMENT fills me with horror.
“ I’m worried about all the other crap that is still with us and is much more likely to persist.”
Yes, Stewart, you put it soooo much better than I did, you final sentence was what I was driving at, but I don’t think I quite reached. It is one thing to repent from being a Lockdownista. That of its own isn’t enough. We have to get rid of the whole apparatus – testing, masking, tracing, quaranting, vaxx passports, jab mandates, hand sanitising, social distancing – ALL of it. Until people accept that position they can’t be considered to repent.
Not that gobshite in the picture, certainly.
Motives for turning have to be ascertained and if genuine, then ok, but anyone in a position of influence who has caused material harm can’t be allowed to just slither away for the sake of expediency.
Too much damage has been done for that to happen, this has to be properly aired and dealt with.
Agreed.
Tend to agree, otherwise the same stuff will happen again with the usual supect shills ( see photograph of one J Vine above).
People need to know they can expect repercussions for what they have done to deter similar behaviours in the future.
The converts that believe the early lockdowns were right and worked put us in danger of the same happening again for the ‘next pandemic’
If these people were only anti-lockdown then I could forgive, but most are the same who are also against basic human rights i.e. the people (like Jeremy Vine) who spouted and promoted hatred of the unvaccinated. I’m very much an eye for an eye kind of guy, and I will certainly not be forgiving or forgetting. I need to see these people pay for what they have said and done. There must be justice. There must be a future deterrent.
I agree, but how to do this? The loathsome Vine, who is but one among many (Neill etc), is near enough untouchable, and will just move on to railing against something or someone else.
Most are so brazen that normal decency is absent. The one thing that hurts them is a massive hit to the large sums that reward their vileness, but I don’t see that happening any time soon.
There will also be some BS about preparing for “the next one”.
My personal inclination is to put them in the stocks and pelt them with various ordures.
As most of these are false penitents, now recanting for career, cash and convenience, the only thing to do is to watch and listen, but offer no rewards.
I wonder if they were ever real lockdown enthusiasts? Maybe they just expounded them for career, cash and convenience as well? They just sniff out the money.
Disgusting.
Andrew Neill particularly. Totally out of character, promptly retires to France.
Tired and visibly rusting. Still, he was fun while he lasted.
He’s picked a good place – hope he is thoroughly miserable over there in Macron’s open prison.
The Iranian revolution threw up an excellent moniker ‘Corrupt on earth‘ designed to cover a multitude of things which i feel could now bewonderfully expanded for the 21st C to include financial corruption, corrupt morals, corrupt character, corrupt brainpower (sub 130 minimum IQs).Too many dim people are the main issue since they do not know they are dim, and therein lies the problem.
What needs to happen is for us to point out the way we were villified and censored, and how that scapegoating and cancelling stopped sensible debate and decision-making.
Many of the idiotic decisions cost billions of pounds and thousands of lives. All because reasoned debate was rejected in favour of censorship.
We must keep pointing this out, and fight for all current censorship to be lifted….
I’m not quite sure what the point is here.
People were stupid, gullible, cowardly, and weak in the past? OK. But it’s not on me to “forgive” them, or to “welcome them into the fold.”
People are beginning to see the error of their ways in supporting lockdowns, clapping for the NHS, and praying for Saint Captain Tom Moore.
OK.
But that doesn’t give me much reassurance that they’ll be any wiser the next time something comes along. And come along it will.
And trust me, they’ll be just as stupid, gullible, cowardly and weak then too.
If even a small proportion can finally understand how they’ve been manipulated over the last two years, there’s hope. Because they won’t easily trust again, for the rest of their lives. Although I was one of the 7%, who didn’t buy into this from the start, the experience has altered me profoundly. I did actually believe most of what I read on the news prior to 2020! It was only when, in March 20, I knewthat a terrible evil was in charge here, that I really ‘woke up’.
I remember March 2020 as giving me the peculiar feeling that the media had taken over the running of the country. Something similar over the last month with the media trying to depose Boris.
Four conditions for a valid confession:
I’d accept a sincere public statement of error; sorrow, attempt to reconcile with those who were correct, and in place of absolution: commitment to furthering the truth and retrieving us from coercion and discrimination (by publicly speaking in our favour).
Absolutely. We were typing at the same time. You’ve said it more succinctly.
Sadly, they are more likely to pretend they always held our views and did nothing wrong.
We can still choose to forgive, even if we never receive an apology or justice; if we decide to wait for an apology first, we may be waiting for a long time. For our own wellbeing unconditional forgiveness, even if galling, is probably the better the option. It’s like dealing with a spoilt child who cannot grasp their misdeeds…
Vive la Resistance! all over again.
You are a better person than me, I am not ready to forgive or forget, not yet anyway. Perhaps if there is a coming together, a recognition of both sides, like happened in South Africa after apartheid, maybe then. What has happened here is monumental, catastrophic, it cannot simply be forgotten, no way
I think both sides will have to talk frankly about it all, which may take years of course. Being open to this dialogue will help heal us as well as the others. The wounds we’ve suffered will never be forgotten, but on a personal level letting go of ‘the grudge’ is necessary to stop bitterness. Just because you forgive somebody doesn’t mean justice has been waived: they still have to repent and receive their just punishment. Some will, but most await their maker, as do we all.
100% this.
In addition to individual conversion, we need:
* Impartial investigation of it all
We already have. Bill of rights etc, but why it didn’t help the tattoo guy in Bristol is yet to be seen. Corruption in law maybe?
I guess rights are one thing, their interpretation/enforcement another: the state will always act upon political direction regarding particular cases.
At this point it seems unlikely any upsurge in awareness/respect for civil liberties is going to take place over night; the state is still claiming the moral high ground and may never admit it was wrong.
Excellent post – so often in life you have to forgive without getting even so much as any of the 4 conditions you have set out.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/213717/dh_131040.pdf
I know this has probably been shared umpteen times on here over the last two years. But I still can’t fathom out why they completely disregarded it in favour of the ridiculous lockdown strategy. And before anyone points out that covid isn’t the flu. It does state that the strategy can be adjusted accordingly to accommodate the virus and not completely ripped up and thrown into a burning furnace.
Two possibilities; neither particularly palatable –
Either they bottled it, or they really were bought over by the globalists.
you have omitted the third one – Dominic Cummings wanted to rip it up and design a better one on his white board and be some kind of heroic figure like he was with the Brexit campaign
The last two years have been nothing to do with a “health crisis.” Unfortunately, this has been about fundamentally reconditioning society; all about coercion and control.
The only health aspects of concern to TPTB are how the nation’s health can be severely undermined. Sadly this includes population reduction and the destruction of an already admittedly broken and dysfunctional national health system.
This is a long way from over.
It’s difficult. People like Jeremy Vine (‘what should we do with the unvaccinated’) helped promote the idea that those of us who have chosen to decline an injection with no long-term safety data, for an illness with a 3 in 1000 mortality rate (and those 3 almost always with severe comorbidities), and an injection that neither prevents infection nor transmission, are selfish and that ‘something should be done about us’. In Austria they are still talking about fining people like us 3000 euros a month or – prison. Some would be happy to have us shot or taken to ‘camps’. People in the media who have helped to whip up feeling against the dreadful, ‘selfish unvaccinated’ are, in my view, disgusting. I think at present I feel too angry, and still too scared to be honest (as it’s not over yet, and I think those behind this will try again) to ‘welcome’ those who have changed their views. If one of them did make a public, abject apology, to the unvaccinated, that would be seen by as many as his/her original statements, I would certainly forgive.
Well said Deborah.
Further thoughts to my comment further up the page….
Barring a few notable disappointments, (step forward Jim Broadbent) most of the culprits in demonising our section of society had played this absolutely to type; what did surprise me was the alacrity, boldness and vigour they displayed in moving the narrative in the ugly way they did.
Prior to covid people like Jeremy Vine, Jimmy Carr, Lenny Henry, Piers Morgan et al, (plus all the “scientists” and advisors I had yet to hear of), were a complete irrelevance to me, their opinion, if I was aware of it, less important than my next fart.
Now of course, their opinions remain unimportant, but their relevance has changed; I now know for sure that in the right circumstances these people would either cheer on the mob forcibly injecting me/putting me on the cattle train, or do it themselves.
F**k the lot of them.
You are right to point out the likes of Vine, Carr, Henry, Morgan.
Plus, those who inveigled and conned the young, the pregnant, the teens, the schoolchildren: they must be named and shamed and tried in a court of law for their contribution, because of the incalculable damage wrought upon these innocents.
The truth is unstoppable.
And as unpalatable as the idea of Nuremberg like judgement may be, it has to come, or we are lost.
Never forgive. Never forget.
Forgive 70 x 7, it’s a biblical teaching and principal; let God do the judgment of true conversion
Correct. I’m happy to hasten their appointment in the afterlife.
I went along with the first “3 weeks to flatten the curve” whilst we got the NHS ready for what could have been a sudden large increase in patients. But I realised very quickly that we were “being spun a line” that made no sense and and I opposed any extension and all the following ones.
Personally, I’d like to see all those in powerful, influential positions who are responsible for the catastrophic lockdowns tarred and feathered. I’m not in a forgiving mood. But realistically, if these people have genuinely recanted we will have to accept it. The priority must be to ensure this can NEVER happen again.
I did not remotely go along with the first lockdown because I knew instantly that it was never going to be just three weeks. The mess we are essentially still in now is exactly what I envisaged when Johnson talked his ‘flatten the sombrero’ nonsense.
See, I think this was a big part of the problem, once folk accepted that initial lie, we were all doomed. I remember trying to explain to friends and family that we have fundamental human rights that the Government cannot violate, like choosing who to see, where and when, and they all thought I was some kind of insane, evil, selfish granny killer.
I have a friend who didn’t hug her mother for a year, afraid she might pass on this stupid virus, her mother died and it was only then that she got to touch her mother’s hand and kiss her, my God this is not forgivable.
I don’t think there are many, if any, Johnny Come Lately Sceptics. At best there are some folk who think we should return to some semblance of normality solely because they believe lockdown policies worked and the vaccine has been the cavalry. If anything, MSM seems even more hellbent on exposing ‘misinformation’ as they are fearful that some people might actually realise they’ve been duped. But judging by the amount still in masks (in all settings) I don’t think they need to worry too much on that score. To the majority, lockdowns worked, masks worked, social distancing worked and of course, vaccines worked.
In questions of morality, when people suffer, livelihoods are lost and psychological harm is caused, those responsible should be held to account. We have a rule in our house. It’s called the principle of universalisation. What I can do to you, you can do to me. The State is no different. The problem here is that so much that the State does cannot be universalised which means that the principle or the State is in error…
Most of us knew at the time that the majority of those who encouraged lockdown’s were on furlough, civil and local government workers who received salaries for not going to work etc plus the number the poll was asked to produce, maybe instead of sinners they were skivers
I don’t have much forgiveness in my heart I’m afraid. As far as I can tell, many prominent people would very happily have seen us killed back then, and plenty of them would still deprive us of everything that makes life worthwhile today, and for the rest of time.
They don’t have a clue what makes life worth living really though do they. They think it’s all material things and long haul flights. They are barely human any more.
The people I have met or come into contact with in the last 20 months or so – they’re what makes life worth living. Salt of the earth.
As a matter of tactics we may wish to temporarily tone down attacks people who are now speaking out about the damage done, time to move on etc, in order to consolidate the ground that seems to have been gained at least in the UK and especially in England. But I strongly doubt that there are many who would go along with my view of all of this – that lockdowns are morally wrong regardless of efficacy, that the correct approach to covid was to do more or less nothing, that covid as an extraordinary pandemic was always a Big Lie, that those pushing this nonsense at the top are Bad Actors, that mass vaxxing of the healthy is stupid and evil, and that the vaxx should probably never have been authorised.
Not a single person I know has said anything to me remotely resembling “you were right and I was wrong” and not a single covidian I know has said anything remotely suggesting they think it was all a mistake. The mass vaxxing has given the Satanists enough cover to be able to continue the Big Lie, and has given the Sheeple enough to be able to believe they have been saved.
The only consolation is that while I thought this could be spun out indefinitely, it looks like it may be a step too far, but it’s early days and could so easily happen again.
If they offer furlough and full pay for not going to work, yes
there isn’t the money for that is there?
“But I strongly doubt that there are many who would go along with my view of all of this – that lockdowns are morally wrong regardless of efficacy, that the correct approach to covid was to do more or less nothing, that covid as an extraordinary pandemic was always a Big Lie, that those pushing this nonsense at the top are Bad Actors, that mass vaxxing of the healthy is stupid and evil, and that the vaxx should probably never have been authorised.”
I’m with you on all that. But you probably knew that
As you say, there are relatively few of us. The issue is that those are the people who are actually important, if we want to learn from this and prevent it happening again, rather than building some kind of cover up coalition.
All the ones who think “oh, it was ok to lockdown etc in March 2020, or in winter 2020/21, but now that it’s safe we should be opening up again” are only useful for the moment, for rolling back the continuing covid panic policies and attitudes. They are worse than useless for the longer term.
They are giving excuses to the people and institutions responsible, and leaving in place the attitudes and precedents for the next time.
When they’ve formed their “responsible”, “big tent” position they will exclude those of us who take the principled approach as unreasonable extremists, and go with the corrupt or complicit majority.
Similar to the way the Iraq War was settled by the establishment as having all been a regrettable bit of honest over-zealousness with some minor infringements. Accepting that it was an evil, mass murderous war of aggression waged with corrupt collusion by almost the entire establishment would have required root and branch reform to prevent it happening again. And sure enough it did happen again, in Libya and in Syria, and is currently being pushed in Ukraine.
Exactly right. And the prevailing opinion will be just that, we had to try, it was a new virus blah blah blah whilst at the same time turning a blind eye to the incalculable human cost of these policies. And will there be the hard questions? Where did these lockdown policies come from? They just happened across the world in lockstep by chance? And what about the use of behavioural psychology and propaganda on the population by supposed democratic Governments, are we ok with that now? Is that ok people?
And do we expect the very folk who peddled this (MSM) to ask the hard questions? Should we trust our institutions, all of them, Academia, Health, Police, Judiciary, Education.
This runs deep through every part of our society.
I don’t trust a damn thing anymore. That has been completely destroyed.
Nelson Mandela:
“Holding resentment is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die.”
Yes but Mandela managed to bring his country together, not by ignoring the actions of the majority, and simply letting them slide into oblivion. There was a national dialogue, a coming together.
Lockdown sceptics and Vaccine Sceptics are censored, vilified, shamed, de-platformed. We are not even ready to have public discourse over this, not by a mile.
Yes – they had a truth commission.
NO! A thousand times NO!
The CRETINOUS self serving Vichy f#ckers like Vine would have had the none compliant tarred and feathered if the situation and the prevailing narrative had remained unaltered….But the truth will out, and the truth is that vine is a sh!t stain!
Yep. I was always completely and utterly vehemently against lockdown. Right from day one I found compelling evidence the so called experts had the picture completely wrong. I caught Covid on March the 3rd, that was later confirmed with an anti-body test. The NHS dismissed me as a paranoid hypochondriac because I hadn’t met anyone from Northern Italy or who had recently been to China. Yet many people around me also had the symptoms (but weren’t dying). Not all went on to get tested for anti-bodies as I did, but one other did and was also confirmed to have had it. My partner had all the same symptoms as me at the same time as me, yet she never tested positive for anti-bodies. Given the strength of her symptoms and the extent they mirrored mine (literally hour by hour) I have little doubt she also had it but fought it off without even generating an antibody response (and later learned about t-cells from Mike Yeadon and yet later read studies confirming some were fighting it off with t-cells alone). A little later Nadine Dories was confirmed to have it, and also had not recently met anyone from Northern Italy or China. Two days after that news, Chris Whitty was giving a briefing claiming there were only two known cases who hadn’t met anyone from Northern Italy or China. I was shouting at the TV “Why aren’t the journalists asking the obvious question – is Nadine Dories one of those two?” As clearly she wasn’t.
Anyone with an understanding of probabilities, will understand, with these reference points, either I, my friend (who I didn’t meet with at that time so didn’t catch it from), and and Nadine Dories were extremely unlucky, or, far more likely, it was far, far more widespread than the “experts” grasped. But that in turn also meant their calculation of infection fatality rate was most probably greatly overstated (which of course it was). All this seemed so obvious, I assumed it would just take a little time for the clever chaps, Whitty and Valance to catch on. That was the biggest error in calculation I made.
To anyone that says this is quite anecdotal. Yes and no. It was direct observation, and an understanding of probabilities and being someone who doesn’t feel the need to defer to others in judgement if I have grasped something and logical consequences that flow. I.e. being confident in being able to make logical assessments. It was a good probabilistic assessment that later become, more and more, confirmed. Yet nobody in power was looking at the confirmatory data as it was coming in.
As the author of this piece said, I felt like the world had gone quite mad.
The value of direct observation, logical thought and common sense needs to be recognised and promoted, since modern scientists are now as trustworthy as estate agents, marketeers, politicians and lawyers (with the honorable exception of those with ethics and morals investigating the corona criminals).
Anecdotal evidence is the foundation of science. It stimulates a hypothesis which then must be tested by seeking out other ‘anecdotes’. If there’s none, the hypothesis was wrong.
I think it was Richard Feynman who said, every scientific discovery begins with a guess, known as a hypothesis. (paraphrasing).
The Gravitational Waves LIGO con of 2015 gave scientists the confidence to try more confidence tricks unabashed. See Drosten PCR, mRNA, Wellcome etc.
Is this about out spoken public figures because the majority of people I know thought of lockdown as freedom and were very outspoken about encouraging it for their own reasons. No work or ‘WFH’, where they spent most of the time doing what they wanted, they knew that the shops were open and they could get deliveries, what’s not to like. Many people were getting what they had always wanted, one over on the government. I knew 2 couples who isolated and they were retired
“What’s not to like” you ask. Well how about loss of democracy and massive downgrading of the country’s future?!
Indeed,, but unfortunately a lot of people failed to think of that, still do
There’s a difference between those who just didn’t bother to do any thinking and went along with it, and those who actively promoted it – even until recently (the person in your picture with his ‘hold these people down’ comment). The first I suppose I feel pity and a bit of contempt for, the second I despise and can never forgive.
Indeed.
Personally, I have no pity for and massively despise the herd of Homo Non Sapiens!
Modern Hybrid-Warfare? The weaponising of our openess used against us, to divide and conqueor, socially engineered cultural flash-bangs if you will, delivered via our (comparatively) free and open (to the highest bidder) markets, media, institutions to persue divisive and absurd identity quotas, climate change quotas, illegal immigration facilitators etc. Or as delusional utopian-dreaming children (the poor victims of said social engineering) might honestly believe: its capitalisms fault, you greedy meany!
Perhaps they see the global hegemonic writing on the wall, so they’re doing the bidding of the next superpower by getting their fawning sycophancy in early, to avoid disappointment, awaiting relocation in China’s Operation Paperclip.
Now we only live in The West with Chinese characteristics.
Prodigal Son was always the most difficult story to understand and accept.
As you get older, you understand it better and can see the wisdom in the approach.
It seems to me that people only look at one side of this story. There was another brother who did not squander the family inheritance and the father said to him, everything I have is yours. In other words, all my inheritance belongs to you, we welcome back your brother but he has had his share of the inheritance.
Note also that the younger brother was fully repentant; make me a hired servant he says, I am no longer fit to be your son.
I also was in the 7% who rejected this nonsense from the very beginning; I have yet to hear ANYONE of my acquaintance who now says to me, ‘I was wrong, you were right all along’. There are still far too many who are convinced that the narrative was right all along and it is only because of all the covid theatre that we can return to normality.
I won’t press the point. I will need to wait.
Other people on here make the point that the greater the responsibility, the greater the sin and the greater for the need for repentance. Ron de Santis of Florida DID Lockdown the state; he then recognised in May or June 2020 that he was wrong to do so and vowed never to do it again. Such a person demands our respect; many (most?) of these ‘Johnny-come-latelies’ have not really repented at all, I am afraid.
A point that is routinely ignored in our modern culture, I believe.
When you forgive and forget too freely, including when you compensate for the costs of bad behaviour to the person involved, you implicitly disadvantage those who behaved sensibly and moderately, and bore the personal costs of doing so.
The answer has to be more nuanced than just blanket ignoring of past transgressions or weaknesses. Forgiveness is fine, when there is full admission and repentance, but forgetting should only be for the long term.
No, that is/was a wretched story to comfort the naughty school-boys amongst us. A late edition to the Bible, I suspect!
doesn’t apply here at all; this is about the possible re-admission of the stupid and malignant ex-son. No quarter shall be given.
If they repent now, they have to listen to everything else we’ve been saying about the biology, about the lab leak/”escape”, about the nudge unit brainwashing, about the potential downsides of the jab side effects we have known biological mechanisms for, about “negative effectiveness’, about the Midazolam scandle, about the “Great Reset” about the WEF and it’s cronies, about CBDC and UBI.
If they repent on lockdowns, they’ve got to squirm, at least a little bit.
Everyone I spoke to was willing to listen to reasoned argument, even tho some got jabbed, I only had 2 staunch lockdown/jab supporters in my circle, who, like petulant 5 year olds stubbornly folded their arms, stuck their nose in the air, and repeated narrative nonsense with closed ears, and ner ner ner ner ner level emotinal outbursts.
One is still unrepentant, the other watched the Matt Le Tissier interview on Oracle films, only because he’s big into football and I asked if he’d seen it because the goals they showed as examples of Matts skill were awsome. As he sat here watching it, his demeanour changed to that of a scolded child. I didn’t make him squirm, but it was clear he’s accepted he was wrong. Now he wants to know more.
https://www.oraclefilms.com/mattletissier
If Jeremy Vines picture is an indication of who you think is an example of the converted, not sure I can ever forgive THAT level of… Hurbis.
The Le Tissier goals were indeed awesome!!!
Just like the end of WW2 in Vichy France.
Id say, the greater their influence, the greater their responsibility. A whole line of politicians, corporates, celebrities, local officials must be held to account, required to explain and, where necessary, make appropriate compensation.
This madness was the single greatest loss of liberty in our history. It cost kids their education, filled them with fear and broke their minds. It cost many, like me, their businesses.
Legal action must be taken, compensation made.
100% agree. Each and every one must be brought to hearings.
If they have been ones who go along to get along, then fine – they didn’t intend to cause harm and spread distrust and hate against people who disagreed.
But the likes of Vine, Shillery, and a lot of MPs and others in respected positions are more accountable. They have information at their fingertips if they want it. The journalists have a duty in their role to provide both sides of a story and be unbiased. Doctors know that these matters are never settled even after decades – that knowledge is always increasing, new ideas, data and facts found all the time.
So no, not everyone should be allowed back to the fold.
Also, it is not only those pushed and enacted the Lockdown agenda; there are many others who failed, and failed signally to question the narrative. Those like the Bishops and senior clergy in ALL denominations who failed to ask questions, those like the reporters in the MSM and particularly the BBC who failed to ask searching questions and actively silenced those who DID ask questions and those lower down the food chain, like those who separated a son from comforting his mother at a funeral who never asked the question ‘is this right?’.
How do such people feel now? Do they feel at all?
I don’t think Stephanos that we will ever need to worry about BBC types repenting and asking to be admitted to the fold – as the semi-architects of this whole shambles they will NEVER admit that they were wrong or have anything to repent for. Everything other than the narrative is, to their collective mind, nothing other than “misinformation”.
The people I can’t stomach are the politicians and advisers who have had full access to the data from Day One and who forced this catastrophe on all of us regardless, and who can now sense that the wind is turning. They are changing their positions out of expediency only and the best words to describe them would get me banned…
I want the “Fact Checking” cohort, MPs included ( you know who the main man is) , named, shamed and barred from any public office for life – no remission even for “good behaviour”. My fear is that the Public Enquiry will be devised with Blairite precision and be as thorough, open and impartial as the Warren Commission…
The sensible way to understand it is with the standard distribution curve. This is applicable with any kind of take-up of something new. It is often used with new technology. At the extreme right are early adopters, in the middle are the normals who require convincing, and the extreme left are laggards who may never adopt.
Being on the extreme right of the curve often indicates people operating with a slightly different set of criteria. They are looking at different things. With Covid insanity this was probably just avoiding the BBC and Facebook, lol.
Like the author I remember in March 2020 being incredulous that so few people were skeptical. Only my elderly father, who explained the advice they’d received in the 1960s about Asian flu made any sense (there’s something going about, you may wish to avoid crowded places for a while).
However, the key is understanding the people in the middle of the curve are absolutely convertible. They too can be persuaded to never lockdown again
Which is the strategic goal as outlined in the article. The trick is distinguishing the convertibles from the lost causes near the left edge of the distribution curve.
For me, it’s not a case of I’ll never forget but more I will remember and with every fibre of my being.
I’m all out of forgiveness. I can tolerate – but forgive – most definitely not. Ever.
I don’t mind any number of late converts, but no movement needs a Jeremy Vile.
Vine can never be forgiven for frightening his devotees at Christmas 2020 with the line “ hug Granny at Christmas…Bury her in the New Year” He’s just Evil!
I thought, right from the beginning, that the response was totally at odds with the severity of the disease and that there had to be something they weren’t telling us, if they were imposing such draconian measures… turns out there really wasn’t.
Same. The emperor never had any clothes!
My approach is to never forgive the pro-lockdowners and to never let them forget either. Their faces should be rubbed in the consequences of their own cruelty and stupidity at every opportunity. Up until and maybe slightly beyond the point at which they repent. In short, no mercy.
I think from here on in, as far as people like us are concerned, that there will always be a massive element of “the boy who cried ‘Wolf'”. After this shambles they will be hard put to get us to ever believe a single thing they ever say ever again.
I’m afraid I think the ‘no more lockdown’ sentiments being uttered by talking heads is a red herring; we’re supposed to think lockdowns are a terrible idea because as far as I can tell they were designed to create a problem that needed solving with mass ‘vaccination’.
Problem: Deadly new virus
Reaction: Lockdowns
Solution: ‘Vaccination’
A few days before the first lockdown, I remember feeling a terrible sense of dread, as though something awful was about to happen. I think it was the sense of raw power that was being wielded, I knew nothing good could come of it. And when the lockdown happened I noted the way that TV commercials had all quickly adopted the same language about staying safe and connected etc. It made me sick. I could see right though it. I watched the news media declare in unison that the world urgently needed new vaccines; the only solution, and I knew, absolutely knew that they would:
Pretend to invent a vaccine
Trial it in record time
Release it to the world
Insist on everyone taking it
I won’t be satisfied until the vaccines are discredited. The argument for lockdown was always pathetically weak and a gross abuse of state power. Yes lockdowns will continue to be the sword of Damocles that fascist states will use to threaten their populations into submission and they must be rejected, but right now I think vaccination, and the fake need for them is what I feel most angry and opposed to.
And as for forgiving lockdown zealots, no I don’t think I can. I have lost close family members (my dad and sister) and friends whose failure to think critically and criticism of me for doing so have absolutely disgusted me. But the silver lining is the new friends and connections I think we have all made amongst like-minded rebels.
1000 upticks
This sums up my inarticulate thoughts and feelings very well. Thank you.
Yes, better put than I ever could.
Well said…..as with the OH and I……right from day one watching the world go completely mad around us, the lockstep obvious, the propaganda so transparent, the care wars escalating, etc etc etc…..and waiting for the inevitable “this virus has no clothes” moment that just wouldn’t come.
We still can’t credit the vast majority of the human race bought into these lies…..still, for the years that remain, as we live our lives as normally as we can, we now fully know what we are dealing with.
Very well said.
a million upticks.
I am sorry to hear of your family”s horrible experience, condolences. Hope I am not a rebel, more a thinking person first , then may be a rebel, but more a guerrilla because this is a fight.
Imho , these vaccines HAVE been discredited, thoroughly, scientifically, without prescriptive bias or malign intent; for me the issue is as much the criminal operation, driven by some truly evil people, to force these jabs on initially unsuspecting people – their purpose solely to profit financially and any platitude to the contrary is pure bullshit.
The information proving these jabs are dangerous, have little effect, are lethal far beyond what has been previously officially sanctioned as enough to refuse authorisation/approval, is mounting daily – we get to read only some of it, but it is in plain sight. The continued “official” campaign to deny these data looks more and more desperate each day to me; that I cannot ever see as the actions of people deserving any form of public redemption or rehabilitation – ever.
LOL! Until the next time. Tell them now, to their faces, to f**k right off. The 93% are sheep, and sheep are always and easily led….
better still keep offering to drive them to vax centres
Brilliant quote!
For many of the general public subjected to the Government psy-ops, yes, I’ll forgive but never forget.
For the likes of Piers Morgan that relentlessly used their media platform to demand lockdown. Who were instrumental in creating ‘narratives’ to demonise and marginalise as ‘anti vaxxers’ or ‘Covidiots’ those of us who took a sceptical view. No. There is no forgiving, there is no forgetting. Ever.
I hope these people are relentlessly called out and pilloried for the hypocrites they are. Made to understand that THEY were complicit in fundamentally changing the relationship between state and citizen. Despised, ridiculed and metaphorically tarred and feathered; because that is what they wanted for us.
The MSM cheerleaders for lockdowns 1 2 3 etc may be able to jump ship and possibly get away with it.
However I have no forgiveness (and certainly no welcome) to offer the ‘celebrities’ who happily told us that taking the jab was ‘110% safe’, and that doing otherwise was tantamount to murder. They will be dealt with in a court of law; that is my hope.
It’s also to be hoped that some IT savvy sceptics are archiving their every craven, dangerous utterance, before they are memory-holed.
I don’t see much, if any, evidence of “conversion”.
The most important thing IMHO is to stop the threat of mandatory jabs.
Nothing else really matters, because if we don’t, then the new generation of mrna jabs will continue to blight our lives and humanity as we know it, forever. Next is to use them to cure all auto immune diseases, cancer is a good one – conveniently forgetting that there is a very good case for vaccines causing them in the first place :- http://vaccinepapers.org/
The bastard BBC etc still extol the virtue of getting everyone jabbed INCLUDING kids, or maybe I should say especially the kids as far as TRPB are concerned.
Until there is a sign of this stopping there has been no meaningful conversion.
The propaganda continues incessantly. It is criminal.
Hard to disagree. Brilliant link BTW.
About eight months ago there were five of us in the office. I said the vaccine didn’t stop you getting covid. Everyone just carried on as it I hadn’t spoken and wasn’t there. Very bizarre and unsettling. The same people were enthusiastically saying how safe they were after getting vaccinated.
A few weeks ago one (an otherwise intelligent woman I get on with) came out with “nobody said vaccinations would prevent infection”.
People are just rewriting their own history and seem strangely unaware they are doing it.
On the negative side I don’t forget or forgive.
On the positive side this change probably helped in the vaccine mandate being dropped so I keep my job in Health and social care for now……
Can only imagine this must have been a very difficult environment to have to go into every single day, being a non believer in an office full of people thinking as you have described.
‘People are just rewriting their own history and seem strangely unaware they are doing it.’
Well said. Not only are they rewriting history, they’re rewriting biology, they’re rewriting the idea of personal freedom, they’re rewriting their morals and scruples, they’re rewriting language, and then building a wall around all of it so it can’t be questioned. Millions of people are going to need serious help when this is all over.
People slowly waking up, realising they’ve been sold a dud, putting two and two together and finally making four, jabbed but refusing to take more, asking questions now…all those people are welcome to step on over side to our side. But people like Vine, and all the mendacious others in the lie-stream media, who have attacked, vilified and berated those that spoke out against the narrative, who are now back-peddling save their sorry selves, can do one. They aren’t to be trusted, not one bit!
Well said.
Having, unfortunately, once heard Vine in full flow, there is no forgiveness for him. He is the sort of person who enjoys having an axe to grind (e.g. cyclists ‘rights’). As a broadcaster he should be a catalyst, through whom people can express their opinions, but he believes his opinion to be the only right one, and some of the things he has said are outrageous. No good wishes for him from me, however contrite he tries to appear.
Vine’s, “What should we do with the unvaccinated?” exempts him from a claim of misjudgement or unwitting misstep. This was calculated malevolence and incitement.
No they are not welcome to step on over. We must ensure they are boosted and insist, insist on driving them to vax centres for their own good, and even repeatedly make appointments for them to attend.
I would be happy if the ‘Johnny come latelies’ would just start with the small personal step of removing their masks and realising they serve no other purpose than as a badge of compliance. There is no point saying you thought it was all a load of nonsense from the start, yet continue to play along with the game.
With all respect, I don’t think it is a question of whether we “accept” late converts or not. That is simply not relevant to anything, and we have no power to make it so. Scepticism was never any kind of exclusive club. Nobody needed a cryptic handshake or a secret code to join in. Everyone made up their own minds and it just so happened that a vast majority fell for the panic narrative and dived under the bed to await further orders from on high. Those of us who didn’t and tried to remain sane, were roundly insulted for our pains. Nobody valued our opinion in March 2020, so there is no reason to think anyone will value it in 2022. Whether we give approval to the converts or not, matters not one jot to them; so it should matter not one jot to us. They will have their own justification for their change of mind, but they will not give any credit to us for it. They are not asking for our approval, and they are certainly not wanting to hear anyone say “I told you so”. Let them rediscover their own sanity in their own way, because that is the only way they will do it. They will not thank us for trying to help them do so. I am happy to see new recruits to the cause, but I will never trust them again with anything to do with my freedom or my health. That is a totally busted flush.
I can never trust doctors again, sad to say.
I never did trust politicians.
And I never trusted the media, particularly the BBC.
I don’t live in the UK.
But when I was in Scotland early last year I was astonished at the endless propaganda on BBC Radio 2, urging people to get the jab.
It was sickening, and annoying that all my friends fell for it unquestioningly.
We need to demolish the infantile idea, unfortunately widely believed, that man’s tiny contribution (3%) to CO2 total output, is responsible for Climate Change.
But 40 years of misinformation and lies, especially from the BBC, have convinced people of the lie.
To the BBC it is akin to a kind of religion. There seems to be almost no story they cannot put some kind of “climate change” spin on.
Surely there’s not enough original lockdown sceptics for us to be picky?
Was anyone on Mumsnet in the early days? They were properly unhinged. Absolute lunatics.
Yes, I was, but I left never to go back. Well, I did pop back recently for a look at the ‘coronavirus’ conversation but found it much the same. Harridans united!
Vine and James Whale, utter you know what.
Whale so worried about covid when the cancer will hopefully silence him soon.
I will welcome them back into the light, on one simple condition. Their return must be total, unconditional, and irrevocable.
No ‘the first lockdown was understandable’. No ‘new normal’. No ‘some laws should be kept on the books in case they are needed again’. Any trace of that and they are still part of the darkness.
I’d like to add a condition that they support criminal prosecution of those responsible but as the police and the Judiciary are as corrupt as the other criminals behind all this mayhem, I sadly have to accept this is an unrealistic hope.
it’s a non-question – unless your interests are in poncing around being self-righteous rather than trying to move forward.
Sniff.. snort…. Some of us knew this was a scam from day one and have been moving forward since day one. Snort… sniff…. Yes, and we, the self-righteous, know who we are and know we were right. Sniff… snort….
I’ve been on this site since it opened in April 2020. Always anti-lockdown.
Perhaps I don’t pay enough attention to the old media, but I am not aware of people reversing their position. I agree with the posters here who say that some people want to “move on” because the measures, including sacred “vaccines” worked and Moronic is less severe.
In a way it doesn’t matter, because personally I don’t lockdowns will be used again. Let’s face it, the changes to the Human Rights Act which will take away all meaningful personal liberty and the Online Harms Bill, which will eventually prevent us all from communicating with each other, plus the inflation and god knows what else (financial crash leading to only digital world-govt controlled money) will prevent most of us from being able to move beyond our immediate communities, where there are only a few even vaguely like-minded people as far as I can see.
Until the vaccine programme is halted, and people involved world-wide with its roll-out are punished, there is no end. And following that, all the other crimes against humanity need to be shown for what they are. If we carry on without all these diabolical acts being exposed, there is no future, because further diabolical acts will ensue.
The vaccine programme is actually one of the most easy to pin down crimes, because the knowledgeable people understand that the line has been crossed, and that medical ethics and safeguards have been discarded. Those in power know the harm it has done and continues to do; they know we have entered a new world where the pharmaceutical industry’s interests prevail.
When the vaccine programme first rolled out, a former neighbour of mine was asked why he wasn’t taking it and he simply replied that he, as a basic grade scientist had worked in labs in the production of vaccines, and had never seen anything rolled out anywhere near as quickly: the safety data just wasn’t there.
So I don’t think it’s about acceptance or forgiveness: nothing of note has happened which is going to change the threat to our lives and that threat will not recede unless the whole scam is exposed and the structures removed and replaced.
I agree totally.
Unfortunately there seems no evidence of the criminality actually stopping.
The only thing that will bring the sheep back is if enough jabbed start dying/suffering auto immune disease so that even the MSM can’t ignore it.
Agree with your summary 100%.
“he, as a basic grade scientist had worked in labs in the production of vaccines, and had never seen anything rolled out anywhere near as quickly: the safety data just wasn’t there.”
I tried to point this out to a friend of mine who works in the NHS, X shall we say. A very valid argument against the jab. X was not having it – the argument, and when it came to the mandate for the NHS staff X was vocally in favour of it, in favour of a mandated jab the safety of which was incredibly questionable because of the warp speed at which it had been developed.
Their closing argument was that if their elderly mother was still alive and in a hospital or care home there was no way that X would want them to be treated by a clinician who hadn’t been jabbed, even though I pointed out that A) the elderly mother would have been most likely jabbed as being “vulnerable” and B) that the jab doesn’t stop someone getting covid and doesn’t stop them from passing it on [as per the PM’s sky news video ].
Brilliant post BTW.
Absolutely, well said. These are crimes against humanity:
Menticide – a psychological attack on the people of this world using relentless propaganda and lies.
Extortion – making rights and freedoms conditional on compliance (lockdowns/masks/jab) using coercion and menaces.
Treason – acting against the interests and wellbeing of the (insert nation here) people for profit and political expediency and on behalf of supranational bodies.
Mass murder – in care homes, through the withdrawal of health provision, through economic destruction, and by experimental and inadequately tested genetic therapies.
Also: Government by fear, denial of free speech, descrimination, turning the citizenry against eachother, hate speech, malfeasance and grand larceny.
These crimes are unforgivable, and must be exposed, and their instigators and cheerleaders punished as a warning from history.
(late edit for posterity: to include under ‘mass murder’ – denying life-saving treatments, one of the largest and sickest of the crimes).
Usually when I’m on a walk I greet other people but yesterday I just kept staring this young man who walked towards me on the Pennines, no other people to see anywhere. Fully masked. He did not look at me but I doubt that was due to shame for his utter bedwettedness.
Bizarre! Still see plenty in the towns wearing their face nappies outside, but never seen it right out in the countryside.
That said, I have seen the disgusting blue face nappies thrown in hedges by footpaths in the middle of nowhere, miles from any village and not even near a road.
Ooh, I wouldn’t have been able to resist saying something!
If they’re genuine, then yes.
If they’re turncoats like Jeremy Vine, then no.
The narrative is moving on and so will the demented brainwashed goons that supports the narrative. We’ve completed the shock and awe chapter of Agenda 21-30, we’re in a phase where the focus is shifting over to crushing the people financially. This was all predicted and was steadily becoming a reality when we saw the regime burning our money on propaganda and Communist Chinese made equipment, while at the same time, printing money to further exacerbate the engineered crisis.
Meanwhile we have cretins like Jeremy Hunt calling for the flu jab to mandated. We have talk over the miracle ‘vaccine’ technology being used to treat cancer. And we have an inbound enormous change to our human rights law in April.
They’ve moved on from lockdown. As we see with partygate, they clearly feel safe enough to now be critical of lockdown, even if it is from a covidian point of view. Anyone who pretentiously ‘converts’ to taking a stance against lockdown now are either frauds or people easily guided by frauds.
100% we are now being crushed financially for the climate fraud
Exactly, and alongside this will likely be war. Whether that be another fake cold war that again allows the communists to spread and infest like they did last time while not a single bullet was fired, or something utterly terrifying that will be used as a cover for depopulation is yet to be seen.
But the climate fraud will play a big part in shaping us along the way.
Indeed. This is a lull. A period of calm before the next phase.
Sadly , dead right; “they” will not accept this lying down , and as the narrative is for more and more jabbing in the lee of newer variant infections – as if the failure of the very thing they clamour to have more of should ever be seen to enter their mind – the next phase will be “Built Better” and stacked higher.
The only way to stymie it will be for a takeover of the “Means of Communication” – Catch 22 says that there is no one who can be trusted, but even if there was , you can only connect with them via the medium you want to takeover..
I predict either a rebirth of writing letters or a new communications medium…..any ideas ?
I’m happy to welcome anyone, but the question is who’s going to pay for it?
Those that come into the fold later bear the responsibility to clean up after themselves. I bear no such responsibility.
So I’m more than happy to listen to them tell us what they’re going to do about it, but to let them off Scot free with a pat on the back and a ‘we’re all in this together’ is not going to happen.
You had the hissy fit, now you clean up the mess.
That awful “we’re all in this together” phrase was pretty much solely used by those who were finaicially secure, living somewhere decent, and in many cases “working from home”. It shows a distinct lack of empathy for anyone in less favourable circumstances – because the reality is tha we aren’t all in this together and some are far more heavily impacted than others. Plus of course it was mostly the type of people who use this phrase who were driving the situation.
Lemmings do not really drop themselves off cliffs. This metaphor is based on deliberate fraud, just like the pandemic.
I’ll never forgive them, never forget and I hope the jabs make them extremely ill in the long term. I think we all know the reasons I feel like that. Most of us on here tried hard to get people to acknowledge the truth and we were called liars, ant-vaxxers and so on. These same people tried to remove us from society, force us to have their jabs. Now they want to pretend they were right and never believed what they did? Sorry, that doesn’t sit well with me at all. To hell with the lot of them.
Strange to watch old footage of the Beatles on their tours, and the pathological reaction of the crowds. We laughed at the time but it doesn’t look so funny now.
You must remember half of the population have an IQ below average, and it has certainly shown to be the case over the past two years. It takes a bit longer for them to process information. Unfortunately a lot of these dimwits work for the likes of the BBC, Sky and are in government or the police.
And there are those who are just plain evil. They are complicit in the plan to enslave and/or destroy humanity. These are the people who should face the full consequences of their actions.
Two really brilliant articles on the real misinformation and lack of sincerity of the turncoats.
The latter in particular offers many details. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/covid-affects-your-memory
“It would be one thing if the change in messaging tracked a dramatic change in available evidence, or even if the messengers candidly acknowledged an “evolution” in their thinking. But neither is the case; the change is simply taking place with no recognition or apology.”
https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2022/02/04/how_a_war_on_misinformation_led_to_a_coronavirus_tragedy_815161.html
“The war on misinformation seeks false consensus. If everyone agrees, no one can be wrong. It’s why they go after dissenters with such ferocity. Not just to make sure alternative messages don’t break through. But also because putting dissent on the record exposes the decision-makers to wrongness and thus accountability later.”
Both of these articles are well worth a read! Thanks for sharing!
Give them all the Julius Streicker treatment at the end of a long rope and short drop.
Streicher was the only one of them who’s death sentence was and became debatable though…
For friends and family just a simple recognition that they were wrong will suffice. Not even an apology is needed as ultimately they had very effect on my life other than being one of the great brainwashed. Without that they remain friends and family but my opinion of them is lower than whale shit. Even with that it won’t be much higher but at least they will have recognised their own stupidity.
But those who did have influence over public measures and the destruction wrought on society, be they politicians, scientists, broadcasters or people of influence, there must be more. Contrition isn’t enough even if public – there has to be payback and some form of punishment or suffering. There has to be consequences to their actions whether it’s destruction of their careers, reputational damage, financial penalties and sanctions or even prison.
I didn’t know lockdowns weren’t necessary at the time – I was too busy desperately trying to figure out how to make money online, and stop my child from spiralling into so deep a depression that I feared I would never get her out of it (literally). I was too busy being afraid (the clue is in the name). It was only with the announcement of the imminent human tests of injections that I began to feel that something was wrong.
I have the benefit of having a parent who was a research scientist who started showing me papers and explaining things in a way I could understand. Most people didn’t have that. It’s not fair to suggest that normal people with ordinary lives could have known. But the ones who had power and influence – that’s a whole different thing.
Having said that, I don’t think its over. I’m watching Canada with desperate hope like I’ve not felt in ages, but also fear. I’m horrified by the possibility that this is going to get worse, and I have NO IDEA how to protect my child. I am not a mother lion, I have no teeth to speak of. All she wants is a life of ordinary simple happiness. Most people only want that. Those who want to stop that are simply monsters.
“Most people didn’t have that. It’s not fair to suggest that normal people with ordinary lives could have known. But the ones who had power and influence – that’s a whole different thing.”
There’s a genuinely complicated issue here. If we want to be taken seriously as competent adults entitled to manage our own lives, we have to take responsibility for our actions, including our compliance with actions taken by government supposedly in our name. And our system of governance assumes that we elect people to take decisions and make laws on our behalf, and we implicitly accept that there will be compromises involved, and we will accept those, as we expect others to accept it when the system goes in our favour and against their views.
But when government goes beyond what can honestly be required of people to accept, as with waging aggressive wars, or imposing lockdowns and mandates based on spurious supposed healthcare requirements, we have two problems. What do we do, and how do we view those who are duped by the authorities into going along with them.
For the first. do we comply and become complicit? Or do we refuse to comply and become dissidents,conscientious objectors? If what is required is genuinely morally unacceptable for us, then the latter is the only course of action.
And what of those who are honest dupes of the elites, of the political authorities and the lying technocrats? Do we just forgive them on the basis that they know not what they do? Or do we view them as collaborators? The former takes away their agency and implicitly assumes they are not fit for citizenship, imo. The latter seems unfair, because the bottom line is that these people were worked on by professional propagandists and manipulators, and in many cases do lack the education, intellect or inclination to question the “experts” and the authorities.
In the end, I think you have to judge case by case, but upon the underlying basis that we are all responsible for what is done in our names.
And remember to tolerate those who dissent, with a near absolute defence of freedom of speech and conscience, however much we may dislike their views, for one day it will be we who are dissenting.
I do see your point. I know I began trying to talk to my friends about it around November of 2020, with increasing hysteria as the months went on. I had different responses from different people, some patient, some patronising, all refused to follow the thought. Some of my friends are more educated than others, and I definitely feel less forgiving the more I judge that they should have been able to understand and research once shown the way. There’s one I can barely speak to now. But a lot of people I know really don’t see anything wrong, not even when they have heart attacks in their 50s even though they are fit and healthy (true story, I know 2).
I am pretty moderate by nature (though considered a right wing extremist by current standards…) and not especially political. Doubtless many times I either trusted leaders too much or simply lazily accepted they were bad but didn’t care much as they were letting me get on with life, by and large. But when we were confined to our homes I took a much keener interest, and was (and still am) flabberghasted that such a large majority continued to be apathetic, even when prodded by people like me who they (I thought) respected.
So I don’t think we are doing anyone any favours by giving them a free pass for their apathy, because (as I now understand) the people, each of us acting according to our conscience, are the only meaningful backstop for the preservation of freedom.
The situation and outcome in Canada is I believe the key to which way this war goes.
If the Truckers achieve success then the Davos Deviants will have to re-think and reschedule.
We are in a fight to the death, us or them. If we lose humanity is finished. The only outcome we can countenance is the destruction of the Davos Deviants.
I really wish that the Canadian Truckers are successful but they are literally throwing the kitchen sink at them in order to stop them – accusing them of “violence against the police” (propaganda wars again) and somehow managing to get “GoFundMe” to with hold the money raised for them – that is the last time I EVER give any money to that funding platform.
I think the fact that MSM seems so determined to discredit the Truckers can only mean one thing – they DO represent a serious threat to the “process”.
I hope the mystery down voter is on a Saturday bonus rate. Someone’s getting their money’s worth out of them.
I noticed that! They’ve put one on virtually every post. No matter what was said. I talked of the unhappiness all this has caused for my son and I. Downtick! I think s/he’s been offline for an hour or so. Maybe they’ll come back later and finish the ‘job’.
Yes, but not without the obligatory “I told you so”.
The weak, corrupt, malleable and gullible have shown themselves to be the malignant little henchmen of the bully pulpit; people of no moral character, with no power or initiative of their own willing to slavishly follow ever changing leaders because their perceived self worth is in the mass, never mind what the mass stands for. Far, far too late to repent and they well know it. Never forgive, never ever forget.We move on.The dogs barked, the caravan passed.
It’s a difficult one. Both my wife and my brother’s wife have admitted they would have probably gone along with the prevailing narrative had me and my brother not consistently pointed out alternative viewpoints, research and data on Lockdown Sceptics and the many other such platforms. Even now the very vast majority will still not even be aware that such alternative views exist let alone acknowledge them and much less believe themselves to be mistaken or wrong.
My heart says never – I mean if they were proven right and we were proven wrong I somehow don’t think that they would have been so welcoming toward us – I think they’ll still be accusing us of being granny-killers etc. But most of all I particularly didn’t like the way they cruelly targeted the unvaccinated throughout all this insanity – that had overtones of Nazi Germany about it … but having said all that my head says welcome them in – a convert is a convert and all that … but maybe only after a very big grovelling apology …. and even then they should be welcomed begrudgingly – these wounds will take some time to heal.
If anything has stunned me most in the last two years, it has been the discovery that 95%+ of our population do not have intellectual capacity or moral strength to make their own decisions. They have just been repeating what the telescreen told them and pretending it was their own thought. Those people should not be punished, but they need to be made to realise the horrors that their stupidity has enabled and to not fall for it again. They need to feel ashamed.
On the other hand, the architects of this, such as Gates, Schwab, big tech censors, big pharma execs and the central banksters need to be dealt with just like their nazi equivalents were in the 20th century.
Those in the middle who went along with this gleefully, including national governments, corrupt so-called scientists, media execs, broadcasters or so-called journalists that incited hatred, should be hit where it matters to them – strip their assets and bar them from positions of authority, and in severe cases dish out lengthy jail terms.
Only with measures of this strength will the psychopaths fear taking this path again, at least for another 80 years.
I had thought that the influence of the MSM had been collapsing with the rise of alt media sources, was I wrong or what?
No, fuck them
Perhaps fellow lockdown sceptics could provide the link (to the doubters) to the meta-analysis of studies on ‘lockdown’ effectiveness that was carried out by Johns Hopkins?
The conclusion was that lockdowns had virtually no effect on mortality during covid, but caused much misery via economic cost, job losses, anguish at restrictions on family gatherings (especially at the point of death).
The main finding is:
“Such a standard benefit-cost calculation leads to a strong conclusion:
lockdowns should be rejected out of hand as a pandemic policy instrument.”
I have a bookmark file named “Bedwetters in retreat”. I’ll add this piece. I’ve no idea who the cove in your photo is so please do not interpret this as a comment about his micturitional quotidianality.
It depends who they are. The little old lady neighbour who’s been frightened witless and who suddenly realises it doesn’t add up? Then yes. That Vine creature who has been doing a large amount of the frightening? Not so much, no.
Bev Turner would agree, it made me so angry how they treated her. And JV wonders why people get so angry when it comes to mandatory vaccine.
Bev Turner has impressed me big time every time I have seen her on TV.
She handled, and explained with great dignity, the situation with her ex husband James condition following his bad cycling accident. I am very well acquainted with that condition. She talks a lot of good sense despite what must have been very difficult times for her family pre SARS COV2 .
Not if they’ve spent the last 2 years scaring the poo out of everyone on the national media – like that odious Jeremy Vine.
That scumbag needs locking up.
As forgiving as I am in most areas of my life, at this moment I’d happily see Jeremy Vine sent to a Middlesborough factory and made into posh dog food in front of an excitable Greg Wallace.
When I first heard Boris declare there was going to be a lockdown, I near soiled myself.
I reasoned that if the Tories were going to voluntarily hit the economy, the Tories who worship money first and foremost, then it could only mean that the Chinese had admitted they had released some genetic monstrosity from a lab and that we were facing a true crisis.
Within two or three weeks with the curve having gone into a nose dive and the Diamond Princess showing that this was a nothing burger my fear of soiling myself only grew as it became clear that this disaster was infact a controlled demolition of our civlisation.
What, the same Johnny come lately’s who slagged us off and vilified us you mean? Absolutely not! We must remind them that they supported all of this!
Forgive the passive followers of lockdown. They were neither heroes nor villains.
Ostracize those who attempted to destroy the few lockdown sceptics. They were villains and must remain so.
No we should not welcome them. People like Vine are no different or better than the scum in France who worked alongside the Nazis and then flipped over to the other side when the Allies started pushing the Germans back. People like Vine encouraged the criminalisation and persecution of decent men and women who were right to be sceptical and shown their judgement can never be trusted. They also bullied people into dangerous cell therapies that killed or injured thousands and endorsed lockdowns and denial of healthcare that will certainly come to kill hundreds of thousands if not more as time goes on. No, they should not be welcomed into the fold. They should be charged with crimes against humanity and jailed for life.
Yes…but who will do that to them?
Indeed we need a huge increase in the number of sceptics such as ourselves but we need them to have a solid foundation for their change. We might be through this season of lockdowns but I am sure that government, driven by its enthusiasm for globalist policies, has much more in store for us. We might have overcome the Scamdemic for now but what about the Great Reset and its ally the Climate Change Scam?
Difficult given what is called education in the UK, delivered by the Scamdemic acolytes for “Jabnation”.
Difficult to see a rapid change in that situation – when the highest paid shareholding director of a privately owned business pays herself GBP 245million and apparently sees nothing wrong in using psyops to extract more money from people; that does not seem to augur well for the hordes of people who are unable to see through why BET365 is morally the same as Pfizer/Moderna et al – the chances of being on the “winning” side with either are stacked against you.
I’m not sure they’re real converts in many cases. I think it’s a bandwagon movement – going with the flow and all that to be one of the gang. The belief in vaccines is strong and pointing out that they’ve gone from stopping you getting the thing to just reducing the symptoms is another bandwagon. The belief that the vaccines will cause all manner of health issues is a step too far at the moment so it’ll be interesting to see how that pans out.
I agree. Throughout history we have forgiven and allowed these people to go free. We are in the mess we are in because we do not deal with the gnarled root of the problem. Those at the very top who change education, laws and the meaning of words are the very people who will happily tell you they understand in order to lull you into forgiving. Then they plot and scheme with sweet words until they strike when you least expect it.
We cannot live permanently in a divided society. We sceptics also know that many of the jabbed will be very ill over the next few years. These people are our family, friends and neighbours. All through this terrible debacle the sceptics have been truthful and peaceful. We have suffered violence, lies, shaming.
Therefore I believe we should do everything Christian values have taught us in our society. We should repair our important relationships without losing the truth or our strength to stand strong. We should accept that this is the end of the beginning for our communities.
The beginning of the end of this controlled and evil exercise is coming this year with the social credit schemes, high inflation, 5G chipping and worst of all the illness and death., We must not lose sight of what this was all about. Therefore I am not going to forgive the Politicians, the Bankers, the faux scientists or the Pharmaceuticals. If we really want to rid ourselves of those few who consistently plot and plan to control us then we have to tear down the Institutions they have created. It is always the same families and the same wrongly named elites who scheme and plot every revolution, every destabilisation, every socialist upraising that steals wealth from the masses and distributes it among the few. This time it has been done through education and chemical means instead of bullets, fists and gas chambers.
it is not wrong to punish those who have murderous intent. It is wrong to give them succour and anonymity to start again in the future.
I opposed the lockdowns and other measures from mid-March 2020. I think that, based on my own ‘anecdotal’ experience, I was in a minority of 1%. The disproportionate (WILDLY disproportionate) political policies of post-March 2020 have ruined our country…probably beyond any past levels of ruin. I will never forgive what our rulers, and the ignorant masses who supported them, have done. It was wrong. Period. The recent ‘converts’ are equally to blame…and I blame them because the damage has been done. Persuade me otherwise.
As far as I am concerned, living in Scotland, it doesn’t matter how many media personalities have changed their mind. As long as our wee dictator keeps standing up behind her podium and saying phrases like ‘case numbers have dropped due to our restrictions’, ‘successful booster program’ etc and they press ahead with getting their emergency powers made permanent we have not yet won the war.
I’m sure people in Wales and many other countries in similar situations still feel the same.
The bile rises in my throat at the thought. But we have no choice if we want to move forward. However, gaining a majority in our favour is an uphill struggle. I have friends who are totally locked in and always will be. Those people will not change.
Its Boris and co who hold the keys and unless they about turn very soon we won’t achieve our aims.
However, never give up, never give in and for me most importantly, never forget.
It is more than ever essential for the opponents of the ruin created by politicians to unite on a minimal programme…putting the blame on those who are blameworthy and instituting a reckoning so that the ruin and its causes are laid bare. Never mind Johnson, Sunak, Patel, Starmer, etc…people deserve a better future than anyone else is offering.
I too was one of that 7% – or would have been if I’d believed a figure as low as that. Like so many polls today I simply didn’t and don’t accept its veracity
I can understand acceptance of converts who had been brainwashed by the mass propaganda campaign orchestrated by government and sage but for those who should know better, such as so called Dr Hillary, there is no forgiveness.
The Johnnie come lately have a very big problem. They drank the koolaid and now sit by and watch so many of their friends and family who also drank the koolaid, get covid, or worse, suffer adverse events. Adverse events, such as strokes, heart attacks, racing hearts, blood clots, reappearance of cancers in remission, lung issues, unsteadiness, and on and on and on. The Johnnie are now SCARED. I can understand why.
I was bemused when the first lockdown was announced but gave the Government the benefit of the doubt. I remember Toby Young and Peter Hitchens being vocal opponents from day one, it took me 2-3 weeks viewing of Unherd’s lockdown tv to become sceptical. I believe that lockdown sceptics need to be evangelists. Why? Because unless “the science” is universally debunked, lockdowns on new pretexts may easily happen again. What happened here and around the world is truly disturbing and shone a light on a deep malaise in the political culture. There are still too many silly sausages who cling to the belief that thousands of lives could have been saved ” if only we had locked down sooner”. The new converts may accept that lockdowns 2 and 3 were not necessary but more research is needed into the effectiveness (or otherwise) of lockdown 1 to fully protect us from descending once more into Arden style lunacy.
What to do about Jeremy Vine? Switch him off.
This whole episode has given a great insight into people’s true character. I shall never forgive the government and Johnson in particular for abdicating responsibility and handing it to SAGE . These people knew it was wrong but used it to try and derail the government. A lot of advocates for lockdown were themselves in comfortable positions and used this to forward there own ideas that would never have been accepted by the public. Unprincipled and thoroughly unethical. Now these people are rushing to save their reputations so that they can continue as before. However they have been exposed and that cannot be undone. Neither can the enormous incalculable damage done both economically and psychologically. While the change in direction is welcomed it is too slow and too shallow. All restrictions including ability to travel must be removed. Opinions may change but character doesn’t.
The article, telling us that “it was bloody lonely opposing the first lockdown”, would have been more compelling had Daniel Hannan opposed the first lockdown himself. Instead he was sitting on the fence:
This unprecedented curtailment of our freedom must end as soon as possible (telegraph.co.uk)
It’s similar to what happened in France in 1945 after the war when half the population claimed to have been in the Resistance when in fact only about 250,000 had.
for me it ‘ s the ‘ vaxxines ‘ and the ‘ passport ‘ for anyhting and the masks and the ‘ tests ‘ that are just as important for never again and to stop rigth now . and the censorship of course
I’m waiting to hear the cacophony of repentance from heads of government and their scientific advisors. I do not believe we ever will because that would open the way for charges to be laid against them.
All the deaths and harms due to side effects from ‘vaccines’ that never completed clinical trials. Deaths due to delayed treatment during and after lockdown. Damage to children’s education and their mental health. Needless loss of livelihoods and jobs etc etc.
In spite of what I have said above, I hope I will see these people brought to book in my remaining lifetime.
Bob Moran tweet of an hour ago:
“Hey, welcome aboard ex-lockdown supporters, all is forgiven.”
No.
Children are dead because of what these wankers have done. Lives ruined. Free society brought to the brink of destruction.
They can have forgiveness, when they get on their knees and beg for it.
https://twitter.com/bobscartoons/status/1490306526946471936
I’ve got a lot of time for Mr Moran.
I – very proudly – have the T shirt….
There are still too many people who mask up, social distance, say that “lockdowns worked”, are refusing normal contacts
U til they give up the pretence that all the tyranny was necessary we cannot let our guard down.
I take the Albanian view.
If someone hacks me off or attacks my family, which these Covid adherents have, then I take offence and hold a grudge permanently.
These people should not be forgiven, as they are redolent of wartime Quislings and Vichy French.
Never forget the inhuman nonsense they have inflicted on society, particularly young people.
In the initial lockdown here in NZ I admit I was neither pro or anti lockdown, merely relieved to have such an extended time off the daily grind, and like Mattias Desmet has mentioned, the “bullshit jobs” of life. I was sceptical however of the so called seriousness of it all and admired Sweden. Since then I have become so anti any measure that has been undertaken during Covid. My opinions have been like a pariahs and I am so dismayed but not surprised at how willingly the authoritarian stance took hold of people here. My biggest fear is the politicians who let it happen will never admit their mistakes and it could all continue in the future. It still is here, with daily nonsense. I think we must all include Johnny come latelies because numbers will matter in the future, and people have multiple reasons why they may have been duped. Big-ups to the Daily Sceptic, Sweden, the Barrington Declaration, Omar Khan, and others who keep me sane in this ongoing insanity!!
I’d be very careful with that Toby, you’re going to get a lot of betrayal – people who jump on the current bandwagon are not reliable – they jumbed on the ‘terrible covid!!!’ bandwagon, now they see the ‘hey it’s ok’ bandwagon – but when the media start screaming ‘panic!!!’ again, they’ abandon you and head for that bandwagon. Fair weather ‘friends’ are not actually ‘friends’ at all, they’re actually dangerous, to whatever degree you come to rely on them and will be hurt in some way when they abandon you. You only friends today are the friends you had 2 years ago who saw the scam and refused to go along
Unfortunately there will always be some who flat out refuse to believe anything from our side of the conversation. My uncle has no internet and only watches BBC and ITV. Whenever I try putting on clips from GB News or Lotuseaters, for example, he walks out of the room like a man child, saying “I don’t agree with what they’re saying” which everyone has a right to of course, but the clips were things like Nigel Farage on the FOI request, and the Lotuseaters asking why MSM weren’t showing the truckers or the NHS100K demonstration outside Broadcasting House. When he plucked up the courage to re-enter the room, he had a distraught and upset look on his face. Normally he’s a level-headed person in favour of Brexit and against the climate change zealots.
Anyway, nice read but there’s just one little thing, trivial though it may be. Lemmings are not suicidal. They do not hurl themselves off cliffs. This was a myth started by Disney. They made a documentary about the creatures, but placed a lazy susan on the cliff, so the poor things became dizzy and wandered off in the wrong direction.
Buy the converts a copy of Laura Dodsworth’s book, A State of Fear. Ask them to read all of it and explain to you how they think now.
Better still, force government to send a copy to every citizen over 16 and make it mandatory reading in secondary education.