Heat pumps may never be cheaper than gas boilers, Ed Miliband has admitted as Labour sneaks a new boiler tax through Parliament that will push up prices. The Telegraph has more.
The Energy Secretary made the comments as Labour snuck a boiler tax through Parliament with minimal scrutiny on Wednesday, despite warnings the move will push up prices.
Under the scheme, which will come into force in April, boiler manufacturers will be fined if they fail to sell enough heat pumps, which companies have warned will force them to increase the price of installing a new gas boiler by as much as £120.
When asked to confirm whether the Government would abandon the proposed 2035 ban on new gas boilers at a Parliamentary committee, he said: “We can say to people you need to get a heat pump, not a gas boiler, potentially, at some point in the future.
“But I’m very wary of saying we’re going to stop people having gas boilers at a point when we can’t guarantee heat pumps are going to be cheaper for people.
“We must proceed in a way that we can say to people they will be better off in the transition.
“I do not want to be in a position where we say to people ‘you must go down this road’ and then people say – rightly – ‘you have made me worse off’.”
Heat pumps currently cost around £10,000 if bought without any Government subsidy, compared to around £3,000 for a gas boiler.
The relatively high price of electricity also means they are often more expensive to run than a gas boiler, despite being more efficient.
Ministers tabled the powers to enact the boiler tax as a statutory instrument, a type of legislation that can be passed with minimal scrutiny.
The measure was brought to a delegated committee in a side room of Parliament on Monday night, where there was little debate and no vote.
Labour MPs were only forced to vote for the policy at all after Tories in the chamber shouted out their opposition on Tuesday, triggering a ballot.
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For advice on home heating, consult a heating engineer; for vehicle propulsion, a motor mechanic; to see the climate yarn for what it is, engage critical faculties.
Under no circumstance consult a Minister for Energy Insecurity with a PPE degree from South Midland Poly and net zero of common sense.
Four days until the Inauguration and counting. Stand by for the bonfire of the inanities.
Under no circumstance consult a Minister for Energy Insecurity with a PPE degree from South Midland Poly and net zero of common sense.
Great comment.
I am hugely sceptical about the whole net zero scam, but for the sake of correctness, our company office is heated (and cooled in summer) using a heat pump system and I would say it generates far more heat than I would use (having a woman in the office means it is always set way too high and I personally am uncomfortably warm most of the time).
Having said that it is massive item, fairly noisy, and I suspect the leccy bills are humongous.
I would hate to think how noisy a collection of these could be outside modern urban accomodations…
But it does work reasonably well heat wise.
That’s interesting to know. I live in a Victorian house, which may not be suitable for a heat pump. I had a new gas boiler installed not long ago. Hopefully this will see me right for some years to come.
I think in a Victorian house like KLF mentions below, much of that heat would escape through leaky walls, designed to circulate air. Visiting my mother at Christmas she has a big old house with gas, I had to open the door because the heat level was effecting my head.
The energy cost is rather a critical missing factor here… and the kicker to show you don’t want this setup at home, unless you have a passive house
South Midland Poly! 😂
OK, here we go – the Emperor has no clothes
Oxford is a spent force, prostituting its PPE degrees and its meaningless ‘Masters’ courses whilst resting on its laurels and being trounced in University Challenge 345 – 25 by Imperial. It has 700 years of track record, it could bounce back, but my starting advice would be to keep away from 21st C politics. It’s low calibre rubbish, and it’s beneath you. And take note of how infrequently Cambridge’s name features in modern politics……..
As I understand it if you own an old house for example a Victorian property the cost of putting in a heat pump is not just the pump, but the piping which has to go through the house, the different degrees of extra insulation and size of pipe based on each room dimensions, and then there is the need to replace all radiators because the pipes are larger than conventional radiator pipes and the radiators themselves are larger. So in conclusion the cost is not just the noisy thing on the wall, its the the remodelling of the interior, the cost of refurbishment of the entire house and the new interior radiators.
I heard this from a heating engineer, is it true? If so Ed is seriously misleading the public, which is something we have come to expect from this Governmnt.
And you need a hot water tank, which is a bit of a problem for houses that were built without space for one (ie mine).
You also need outside space where the unit can be sited. I do have a garden (small) but there is just one small area of brickwork downstairs because the rest of the external structure is glass (French Doors and windows). So there is nowhere to place a heat pump without large-scale structural changes.
It would cost a fortune.
You need to replace the pipes if they’re micro-bore, most are ok. However, as the water is at a lower temperature you need larger area radiators, or better still underfloor heating.
If the house isn’t well insulated it’s all a bit hopeless, you’ll need secondary heating.
Serious question – Is it feasible/possible to install underfloor heating under concrete floors?
Not without taking up the floor… you could theoretically install it over the concrete floor… but that would reduce the room height.
Our friend has some in her kitchen diner. The floor was warm and the room was warm too. I have no idea what the capital cost was, nor the ongoing cost, efficiency or maintenance issues. We’ve got underfloor heating in our kitchen diner but it’s under tiles not concrete. Our electricity bill is huge but we have a big house, a hot tub we use all year and I work from home every day and the heating is at 21. I guess it’s like a storage heater- ours is set to come on in the early hours to take advantage of the cheap rate. Maybe I should get a smart meter which would tell me the best way to heat our home:)
Anything is possible – how much do you want to spend? The floors would need to be broken out with a jackhammer and relaid with the underfloor heating installed within.
Yikes! Sounds really expensive. Lucky I have no intention of doing it.
Plus people will need to get used to cooler houses, as at best they can heat to about 18C, whereas most people have their thermostat set around 21-23C and higher in cold snaps.
And hot water will be less hot!
Like so many other things being foisted on us, they are not bad idea’s per se, but to enforce them at scale is a terrible idea, they are too large for most homes (flats and apartments?), too noisy, too expensive and although incredibly efficient (up to 500%) their heat output is way below a gas boiler.
For virtue signaling people with more money than sense they are great! Along with EV car, Solar panels on the roof and backup batteries. You can have an energy efficient home, with “low carbon” but guess what, it will have absolutely zero impact on that trace gas in the atmosphere, or the environment.
But will have a massive impact on the cobalt and lithium (rare earths etc.) extraction and manufacture processes, those involved in child labour and massive environmental damage.
Governments don’t subsidise, taxpayers do! Its a double whammy, higher taxes and ever increasing energy costs!
Finding an available heating engineer that knows anything about them is an issue; check they have a separate control for the immersion hot water coil in the water cylinder (mine didn’t) so when the pump fails (in very cold weather like we’ve just experienced in the UK) you can still have hot water if you’re lucky; be prepared for ENORMOUS electricity bills; make sure you have a real fire to huddle round when it fails (see above); & be prepared for your days & nights to be punctuated by the sound of the pump starting up like a roar (timer control of mine was incomprehensible) & finally be prepared to be slightly cold all the time.
THanks for a dose of up to date reality.
I stuck a 6kW wood burning stove in the living room – bought the flue kit online and installed it myself. Best thing I ever did for the house. I also work in remote areas a lot, so harvesting fallen wood is no probs with the trusty chainsaw. The feeling of burning free wood is hard to beat.
Thank you to everyone on the string, perhaps Sceptics Ed could send it to the “genius” Milliband and his band of merry imagineers, and to the BBC such that they can perhaps give us their evidence on how these things are going to save us money, reuce our heating costs, whilst keeping us warm, and over what period they have built this magical payback period on.
I am with you Tonka re wood burning stoves, they heat the water too.
And that’s before we get onto the price of the electricity to power them ….. VASTLY more expensive than gas.
And that, together with the cost/impossibility of making my house sufficiently insulated is why I won’t be getting one.
No. Heat pumps currently cost around £10,000.
The only question is: who pays for it? Government subsidy does not magic the cost away.
And there are loads of gas boilers on sale for less than £1000.
I had a new gas boiler installed about 5 years ago – cost includuding installation, about £1,300.
I feel it would be helpful to mention the next generation of heat pumps which use a different refrigerant. These provide an output temperature equivalent to a gas boiler, which means that they provide heat rather than just warmth. A consequence of this is that they can be used with existing radiators and pipes.
The manufacturer claims that it is effectively a drop-in replacement for a gas boiler. Being a tad sceptical (gross understatement) then I would wait a few years until there is feedback from the field but the person I know who has one is full of praise for it.
Interesting. I’d never heard of it but a quick search brought up BBC’s Will hotter heat pumps win over homeowners? I’ve only skimmed the article so far.
I find the picture on the article quite amusing: An engineer installing the external unit of the heat pump (or maybe just tying his laces) next to the owner’s wood fuel store…
Anyone who’s already installed one of the earlier generation will be spitting feathers.
That would still leave the huge cost of electricity that will keep rising steadily.
My only disagreement would be with the word ‘steadily’.
The cost will go up in leaps and bounds but always ‘because of the influence of foreign dictators on the price of fossil fuels’… until we aren’t using hydrocarbon fuel any more so the tax income from them to fund the electricity subsidies dries up. At which point electricity costs will go up like a rocket.
useful info and interesting. If only I had experienced that I might not feel as I do now!
Has someone changed the laws of thermodynamics then?… have to read up on these newer units
The incessant noise alone is sufficient reason to abandon the whole idea.
There have already been some court cases of countryside neighbours suing each other over the horrific noise, one from 300 yards away, destroying everyone’s rural idyll, peace and quiet.
It’s like living next to a motorway. Or a wind turbine. And once everyone is forced to install them, it will be a living hell.
Blame that on Russian sanctions and renewables subsidies. It is all caused by politicians grandstanding.
“…once everyone is forced to install them,” – problem cures itself, as collapse of the grid turns them all off.
Brilliant! I’d never considered that— so there is hope after all!
Hopefully a new government will reverse all this nonsense.
Then we need to ensure that the next government is not Labour, Conservative, SNP, Lib Dem, Green… Now, I wonder who that leaves?
I think Reform needs to be given a chance at governing. No doubt they will bring their own brand of ineptness and grift, but I am so thoroughly fed up with the established parties that I welcome a Reform government.
If Reform were elected, I might even watch BBC news for a day or two so I could watch them squirm.
Hahaha! So might I.
At this stage I’d welcome the minstep raving loony party if they still existed – couldn’t be worse than the Uniparty
Monster… damn autocarrot
Are manufacturers of gas boilers obliged by law also to manufacture heat pumps? If they don’t make them, they can’t sell them.
Hang on mate, you are crediting Milibrain with nous wot he does not ‘av!
Taxing boilers. pushing up the cost of the gas to run them by denying companies drilling or fracking rights and subsidising heat pumps with taxpayer money . Anyone would think think Labour are getting big bribes from wind and solar farm owners and heat pump manufacturers or have personal investment in them
A local acquaintance is already on their second set of heat pump bearings in less than 10 years. It only heats part of the house which they have to vacate on the coldest winter days because it’s not up to the job
Peak pricing means you will be unable to afford to run them for increasingly long, as demand soars in winter, periods of the day.
A punishment tax for not selling enough numbers of what for most households, will be an inferior form of heating, represents insanity.
So another £120 stealth tax on consumers that need a new boiler. Taxpayers already subsidise th better off as they are the ones that can afford a heat pump, and penalises poorer households who cannot.
Whilst heat pumps may be more efficient in theory in a new build designed around the system, in practice they are very often insufficient to provide enough heat on their own in our existing housing stock, especially older house and they take up significantly more room externally and internally.
My heating guy refuses to install heat pumps in older houses as they are not as good as an oil boiler (we have no gas up here).