On the first day of his second administration, President Trump signed an executive order to “withdraw the US from the World Health Organisation (WHO)”.
This won’t be the first time for the United States of America to leave a United Nations entity. Quite the contrary. It has been out but then back like a yoyo, leaving no lasting mark on relevant organisations. Will this time be different?
The recent history of the US and specific multilateral entities belonging to the UN system is quite tumultuous. Like the complexity of human relationships, it features dissatisfactions, fallouts, threats, divorces and re-marriages. These chapters correspond to changes of American administrations. With Trump’s second term, the withdrawal from the WHO was not unexpected, based on his previous positions during the COVID-19 crisis.
The US is undoubtedly a heavyweight in the UN system, thanks to its important financial contributions, economic power, overseas aid distributed through domestic institutions and bilateral channels, and of course, its population size and Americans’ genuine desire to make the rest of the world better. It contributes an impressive 22% of the UN regular budget. In addition, since the creation of the UN, it is also the top voluntary contributor to keep the system afloat. It is also the top direct contributor to the WHO’s 2024-25 budget, at 15% ($500 million per year). China pays just 0.35%.
The US has also made its diplomatic displeasures heard multiple times in international arenas in the past, reflecting its current stated intent to withdraw from WHO. Most notably, these have been evident in its relations with the UN Human Rights Council (HRC) and the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO).
Withdrawal from and return to the HRC
In 2006, the HRC was created as a subsidiary body of the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) to replace the Human Rights Commission. Headquartered at the UN Office at Geneva (Switzerland), it is composed of 47 members elected for three-year terms by the 193 Member States of the UNGA. One third of the members are renewed each year, and countries can serve a maximum of two consecutive terms. Hence, roughly, one third of UN Member States are in the HRC at any time. Election is by regional groupings and extremely prone to politicisation. This has undoubtedly compromised its mandate of protecting and promoting human rights.
The HRC works through cycles of Universal Periodic Review where all UN Members States are periodically assessed, appoints the Special Procedures (independent human rights experts for specific countries or themes), authorises commissions of inquiry and fact-finding missions on war crimes and crimes against humanity, and hold crisis meetings in emergencies. Resolutions or decisions require a simple majority, and membership can be suspended by a two-thirds majority (as happened with Libya in 2011 and currently with Russia).
The relationship between the US and the HRC has long been difficult. The US (together with Israel, Palau and Marshall Islands) voted against the original UNGA resolution creating the HRC. Nevertheless, the US joined 2009 under the Obama administration, reflecting a change in position as it had preferred to be an observer to the now-defunct Human Rights Commission during the George W. Bush administration.
The US continued to voice its criticisms regarding HRC’s alleged politicisation on many issues, notably related to a high number of resolutions adopted against Israel. For instance, in February 2011, at the 16th session of the HRC, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton pointed at “the structural bias against Israel – including a standing agenda item for Israel”, which “undermined” the HRC’s work.
In October 2011, Palestine was admitted as a full member by UNESCO. A year later, the UN General Assembly (UNGA) adopted Resolution 67/19 on the “Status of Palestine in the United Nations” by 138 approved votes, three abstentions, five absences and nine rejections (including the US). Palestine thus became a non-member observer State to the UNGA – a similar status conferred to the Vatican. This was widely seen as a formalisation of the statehood of Palestine. Successive HRC resolutions (A/HRC/RES/16/30 of March 25th 2011, A/HRC/RES/19/15 of March 22nd 2012, etc.) on the Palestine-Israel issue have repeatedly called for “the two-state solution”, while the US has unsuccessfully stood, either alone or with few allies, against all other HRC members.
In March 2018, a further resolution, A/HRC/RES/37/75, condemned Israel’s past and present actions against Palestinians. On June 19th, the Trump administration decided to exit. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo laid out several reasons, such as: i) HRC members included authoritarian governments with unambiguous and abhorrent human rights records, and ii) HRC’s continued and well-documented bias against Israel. The US Ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, added that “for too long, the Human Rights Council has been a protector of human rights abusers and a cesspool of political bias”. Haley further stated that she had led the US efforts to try to reform the HRC for a year; however such efforts had failed due to resistance of many countries but also allies’ reticence to challenge the status quo.
The exit was swiftly reversed by the Biden administration. On February 8th 2021, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken announced that the US would reengage “immediately and robustly” with the HRC. A few weeks later, at the 46th Session of the HRC on February 24th 2021, Blinken requested peers’ support for the US to return and seek election for the HRC 2022-24 term. The country was subsequently elected and back on the Council.
US withdrawals and returns to UNESCO
Although the US was a founding member of UNESCO, the relationship has been bumpy. The Ronald Reagan administration left UNESCO in 1984 officially “because of a growing disparity between US foreign policy and UNESCO goals”. The UK’s Thatcher administration also left UNESCO in 1985.
The UK returmed in 1997 and the US in 2003 under the George W. Bush administration. Singapore also left in 1985 to return 22 years later.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict triggered further disagreements. As mentioned above, UNESCO’s General Assembly voted in October 2011 to welcome the State of Palestine as its 195th member, despite its mere “observer entity” status at UNGA at the time. As a consequence (as feared by UNESCO Director-General Irina Bokova and UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon), the Obama administration froze its contributions equivalent to 22% of UNESCO’s regular $1.5 billion budget, and all support for UNESCO’s voluntary programmes. Israel, a member since 1948, left soon after.
The Trump administration then quit altogether in 2019, by which time the US had had accumulated an estimated $600 million in unpaid dues.
The US formally rejoined to UNESCO in 2023 under the Biden administration, celebrated with a flag raising ceremony at UNESCO headquarter in Paris and dinner reception with First Lady Dr Jill Biden at the US Embassy. The return depended on a majority vote of UNESCO members, and the US agreed to pay all arrears totalling $619 million, plus to fund specific voluntary programmes as negotiated with UNESCO (African projects, freedom of journalists, etc.). To this day, Israel remains an outsider despite UNESCO’s invitation to return, perhaps wishing to avoid the apparent humiliation imposed on the US.
US and WHO: a strained relationship at the beginning of COVID-19
The US was one of the founding members of the WHO. On June 14th 1948, Congress adopted the Joint Resolution “providing for membership and participation by the US in the WHO and authorising an appropriation therefor” (80th Congress, Second session, CH, 460 – June 14th 1948) to authorise the President to accept US membership of WHO. It also noted that:
Sec. 4. In adopting this joint resolution the Congress does so with the understanding that, in the absence of any provision in the WHO Constitution, the US reserves its right to withdraw from the organisation on a one-year notice: Provided, however, that the financial obligations of the US to the Organisation shall be met in full for the Organisation’s current fiscal year.
The WHO Constitution does not contain any withdrawal provision, like most of the founding texts of UN entities born immediately after the Second World War. Thus, the US Congress made clear it can withdraw from the WHO, through a formal 12-month notification providing its due contributions are acquitted. These provisions are consistent with practices codified later by the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties which allows parties to leave an international agreement (Articles 54 and 56).
During the first year of COVID-19, on May 29th 2020, President Trump announced that the US would be leaving the WHO. The formal procedure was triggered on July 6th by a diplomatic letter sent to both WHO Geneva headquarters and UN New York offices, citing WHO’s failures in response to COVID-19 and other recent health crises, and its unwillingness to reform. At the time, the US still had an outstanding due of $198 million.
Things did not go as planned. The Biden administration reversed the situation half a year later, not only aborting the withdrawal process triggered by Trump but also increasing US engagement with the WHO. The US then proposed the 2022 amendments to the 2005 International Health Regulations (IHR), reducing the period for new amendments to enter into force from 24 months to 12 months, and the period to make reservations from 18 months to 10 months. It was also the country actively involved in the drafting and negotiations of the 2024 amendments to the IHR that will hobble all countries’ health budgets and resources in order to spend liberally on early detection of future pandemics rather than more rational priorities.
On January 20th 2025, President Trump opened his second term by ordering:
Section 1. Purpose. The United States noticed its withdrawal from the World Health Organisation (WHO) in 2020 due to the organisation’s mishandling of the COVID-19 pandemic that arose out of Wuhan, China, and other global health crises, its failure to adopt urgently needed reforms, and its inability to demonstrate independence from the inappropriate political influence of WHO member states. In addition, the WHO continues to demand unfairly onerous payments from the United States, far out of proportion with other countries’ assessed payments. China, with a population of 1.4 billion, has 300% of the population of the United States, yet contributes nearly 90% less to the WHO.
Sec. 2. Actions. (a) The United States intends to withdraw from the WHO. The Presidential Letter to the Secretary-General of the United Nations signed on January 20th 2021, that retracted the United States’ July 6th 2020 notification of withdrawal is revoked.
Section 2(a) of the Executive Order seems to try to make the six months already passed since the first withdrawal notification (July 6th 2020) still count. It translates Trump’s wish to complete what he had started as soon as possible. It is not clear whether this argument may be accepted, or whether the new notification will re-trigger the withdrawal process again, though Congress could vote to shorten the period required. Regardless, this time, the Trump administration has plenty of time to complete a withdrawal.
But for how long? Who can ensure that the next administration will hold onto this position? Or will history simply repeat itself as in the quick and humiliating returns to the HRC and UNESCO with full backpay for the years of absence and without necessary reforms?
Stay vs quit?
As demonstrated above, it has become habitual that these policies are reversed with little public attention. Leaving arguments on their rightness or wrongness aside, the decisions to step out of the HRC and UNESCO under the Trump 1.0 administration were both quickly dismantled. Each time, the momentum was lost, as was the time, money and posture. Hence, if the Trump 2.0 administration actually leaves WHO this time, the outcome may well be nullified in the near future.
The French people say ‘qui va à la chasse perd sa place‘ (he who goes hunting loses his seat) for a reason. Perhaps it might be better, after all, for the US to use its current position and time to work for real reform, so as not to lose this opportunity. Right now, the Trump administration has many solid arguments and allies to demand serious assessment of WHO actions and inactions during Covid and its poorly evidenced approach to pandemics in general, and to seize the momentum for change. There are real opportunities to re-assess, reform or even replace the organisation with another one, to make changes not easily undone by future administrations. This would provide real and lasting impact for Americans and globally.
Dr Thi Thuy Van Dinh (LLM, PhD) worked on international law in the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime and the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights. Subsequently, she managed multilateral organisation partnerships for Intellectual Ventures Global Good Fund and led environmental health technology development efforts for low-resource settings.
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Well said
Good article. It says what I have been saying for the past two weeks but in a better way.You take a position of strength but do not belittle the bully by greater provocation but find common ground in his arguments first and then negotiate as Rogerburg puts its so well below.
Quote about Toby “. . steelmans the sceptical position.”
Call me old -fashioned but what does that mean?
The opposite of “straw man”, rendered into a verb, apparently.
Steelpersons?
Eco friendly Zero carbon equivalent of steel person?
Alternatively: he doesn’t counter the argument, his argument is weak, he parrots the US/EU narrative alarmingly.
It appears to be a mis-use of the term.
Steelmanning is where you take a position that you disagree with, and make the strongest possible good-faith argument for it.
The reason that you’d do this is that you’ll never actually persuade an opponent by mis-characterising their position by straw-manning it. You do that to score a cheap win in the court of public opinion.
Instead, you give your opponent nothing to argue against by accepting their language and their position, and even helping them out with more arguments in favour of it.
The idea is that if you can then point out remaining problems with it, they will be inherent in their position, and you stand an outside chance of getting them to acknowledge them.
So, instead of calling mostly-peaceful-religionists deplorable terrorists, you’d go into a dialogue with them calling them holy warriors, and accepting the tenets of their instruction manual. You’d then pick holes in their actions with reference to their own beliefs, not to yours.
It’s a tough row to hoe, but you can be absolutely guaranteed that straw-manning will never persuade anyone, ever.
I do this to UK journalists all the time. They really don’t like it, but they absolutely deserve it. The levels of lying in the UK media the past 10 years has been off the scale.
Do they all know they are lying or are they simply copying each other without realising it as the same untruth flies in at them from different directs but from the same base ?
Mixture like anywhere. Some are thick, some are careerists above all, some are worried about the mortgage and the baby on the way and a few know what’s happening and like it.
@rtj1211 – Does the tactic work?
“It appears to be a mis-use of the term.
Steelmanning is where you take a position that you disagree with, and make the strongest possible good-faith argument for it.”
In fairness to Noah Carl, he uses the term precisely correctly, doesn’t he?
Carl wrote, of Toby Young’s piece here the other day:
“I don’t think he really steelmans the sceptical position.“
By which he meant, as I interpreted it, that Young fails in his piece to strongly argue the sceptical (of the mainstream jingoist position) case that he disagrees with.
Indeed, I went further in my own reply to Young’s piece, implying that he actually “strawmanned” it.
Exactly
Fair point. To be honest, I don’t read much of Young’s diatribe any more since it became clear that he’s essentially an establishment Party animal whose “scepticism” only ever really extended to finding reasons to not wear a muzzle.
Everyday is a ‘Skool’ day!
Thanks. I used to do that a lot as a young man especially with faux Communists who only take up that position because they think it an easy option.
They get really annoyed when it is explained that the only time and place where true Commumism has prevailed is Israel with their collective farms and all that. Not actually true but, in their wish to conform, my interlocutor frequently know no better while I can make a better case for Comnunism than they can.
Great deal of fun to he had there.
And once you’ve taken over the case you’re opposing, making your opponent feel good about you and about himself, as you pay homage to his case and present it even more strongly than he was presenting it, you can tweak it ever so slightly here and there without the sucker knowing.
Opposition’s great if you control it, even opposition that thinks it’s outsider or “damn you all”. Just so long as you do control it. A bit of blowback down the line? Who cares? The battle is here and now.
There are a couple of courses on it in the 77th.
The Jesuits have been doing this for centuries.
Known as “pacing and leading” in political circles now.
Once you’ve established yourself as the leader, and got people following you, you can change the direction of the march.
Bate and switch.
One example of “steelmanning” would be to argue “the” critical case with respect to Covid lies by presenting graphs, graphs, graphs, graphs, enough graphs until everyone who isn’t an obsessive graph-head (which is at least 99% of the population) has completely zoned out.
Strawmanning person A won’t persuade person A but it can often convince crowd B.
Many believe, for example, that the particular character of regimes in say the USSR or China came about “because of ideology”, unlike in the oh-so realistic and pragmatic parliamentary-democratic pluralism-using regimes of the other three UN Security Council permanent members.
Powerful interests in Britain would never had said rubbish like that to powerful figures at the Soviet embassy, because it would have been strawmanning them and insulting them by coming out with a characterisation that is obviously untrue and that only an ignoramus would believe. But they convinced a whole lot of other people.
Yes, acknowledged and covered. Strawmanning – or simply, propaganda – is a very useful tool for persuading the ill informed that your opponent is Literally Hitler (or Literally Stalin).
However, when you need to actually persuade an opponent of their own wrongness, you have to understand their position, profess to accept it, and then work from there.
Hmm, I wonder how long it will be before we hear people being Strawmanned as ‘Literally Putin’? I mean aside from Putin, who is incontestably and literally Putin.
Ah, well, I’m a little chuffed to say that that’s exactly how I’ve always conducted myself in discussions. In my case it’s an argument from lack of self-confidence; by agreeing with your ‘opponent’, you mollify him; he to some degree let’s his guard down and is flattered that you appear to agree with him; he begins to ‘like’ you – and it’s always easier to influence another person’s opinion if they like you. It’s a selling technique. I also use it unconsciously with my autistic son, with whom straightforward confrontation just doesn’t work. Steelmanning. Hmm.
Something to do with Stalin (man of steel)?
Interesting answer but needs some work on it.
Yes, not sure myself.
A few words were used. However the entire meaning of this article is lost if one places all one’s effort on four words.
With current events in Ukraine this 2016 Oliver Stone film “Ukraine on Fire” is always worth watching to see how we got to where we are today.
It includes the truth behind the Maidan revolution and interviews with Putin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHH10jIRJmQ
Ukraine elected a democratic government in 2010 with a 49% to 45% victory for the pro Russian Victor Yanukovych and the election was declared to be above board and totally legal. He had huge support in the east of the country.
Foreign interference since 2010 from the USA and the EU led to a very dangerous situation and Russia had every right to back it’s democratically elected neighbour.
Ordinary protestors were not shot by the police as the police themselves received many casualties from snipers.
May 2, 2014 Ukrainian nationalists murdered at least 42 Russians, most burnt alive in the Odessa Trades Union Building. Others were shot trying to escape the fascist and nationalist thugs.
This was an armed insurrection.
The US used the same modus operandi in Syria and elsewhere.
Foment rebellion, fund and arm rebels, shoot innocent protestors and blame it on Government forces, then use lies and propaganda in a compliant main stream media to demonize the legitimate Government of Yanukovych.
Russia’s “annexation” of Crimea (by military personnel already stationed there for their Black Sea fleet) was more of a “reunification” and was with a 96% approval rating by the people of Crimea in a referendum.
After the US/EU coup in Ukraine in 2014, Russia showed remarkable restraint by not moving their defensive forces up to the river Dnieper in Ukraine to protect the majority Russian speaking residents of that eastern region who support Russia and are being attacked by fascist Ukrainians.
It would have been totally justified.
Russia has spent the last 8 years watching the US fund Ukraine fascists shelling the Donbass region killing thousands of ethnic Russians.
The US has also encouraged Ukraine to join NATO and supply them with missiles which can be converted to nuclear warheads.
The US has also funded many biolabs in Ukraine.
Russia has finally realised that after years of negotiations the US and their poodles cannot be trusted and have entered Ukraine to rid themselves of the threat from a nuclear, biolabbed and armed US conclave on their border contrary to previous peace agreements
At last someone who actually knows something about US policy in the Ukraine!
Cheers.
Unfortunately the vast majority of the western population have been brainwashed for many years by their politicians and msm to regard Russia as our enemy.
It was shown how easy it was to hoodwink people about Covid.
Russia, and a few other countries, are a bulwark against US imperialism which aims to subjugate people under the yoke of so-called liberal democracy which favours a global elite at the expense of everyone else.
Russia, like many countries, just wants to be left alone without US interference.
The vast majority of the western population know nothing and care less about Russia or its policies.
But, as with Covid and Big Pharma propaganda, this ignorant majority is still quick to jump on aboard with the MSM narrative. More worryingly even self-proclaimed sceptics, including TY, are falling in line to condemn Russian actions. It’s as if everything that sceptics have stood up against over the last 2 years has been thrown away overnight.
Just think he wants a break from being sceptical.
remember flight mh 17?
shot down over ukraine by russian regular military posing as ukrainian insurrectionists?
but of course that was a false flag…
If only the last bit were true…
Russia, along with China, are up to their proverbials in the ‘reset’ and the global technocracy.
Its partly this that makes me very sceptical about the narrative around this ‘war’.
For instance, most of the shelling into the eastern Ukrainian cities is not coming from Russian troops as we are told in the MSM but by certain elements of the Ukrainian forces. As the map above shows, the majority of the citizens in these cities are of Russian stock. This is an extension of the shelling that has been going on for the last 8 years, its just that its moved westwards and southwards as cities previously controlled by Ukraine are now being taken by Russian troops. Its a fallacy that all Ukrainians are fighting the invader, many see them as liberators, especially in the east and south.
Economically we are told Russia is being tortured by the West with the removal of SWIFT facilities etc. But the reality is that Germany continues to pay for the gas that continues to flow across Ukraine without hinderence, and the coal for its power stations etc etc. Seemingly certain banks have escaped the sanctions noose to facilitate payments. Not for nothing did Vlad attend many of Klaus’ meetings when he was running St Petersburg.
Interesting post! But judging from the body language of the Russian diplomats, I think they are in earnest.
Though I have wondered about the “Reset” and Russia.
I think it is more likely that Russia is being used as a pawn and victim in the financial reset than an instigator.
We have to be careful of that map as that was the situation in 2011.
A lot of the ethnic Russians were forced out of central Ukraine since 2014 into the Donbass region which as you say is and has been shelled by the Ukraine army for the past 8 years.
forced out of central ukraine?
really?
now how did the government do that?
put them in rail cattle carriages?
or force march them?
or maybe the russians felt they would feel better at home amongst their own kind and they moved because of that?
remember when all of ukraine was inhabited by ukrainians?
and when russia starved them to death and replaced them with russians?
remember holodomor?
The fascist Ukrainian government and military started to expel by force the ethnic Russians from Ukraine into The Donbass in 2014.
13,000 had died.
It’s an historical fact.
Russia, along with China, are up to their proverbials in the ‘reset’ and the global technocracy.
Both Russia and China had Covid “vaccines” to sell to the world so in that respect they appeared to embrace the hysteria around Covid.
However, although they both join in with these and other capitalist ventures there is too much animosity between them and the US for me to agree that they are part of the “reset”.
Would it surprise you that its a Russian bank, under the auspices of the BIS that is leading the global banking regulation reset? You can’t get more central than that.
Russia has been buying up physical gold for decades so they can drop the dollar.
An oligarch owned bank doesn’t represent Russia.
Rightly or wrongly, I have more empathy towards Russia than I do China. In fact I feel more empathy with Russia than I do most other countries who aren’t exactly paragons of virtue – never have been or will be – including the U.K.
Regarding the Russian and Chinese vaccines, IIRC, their covid vaccines were not, unsurprisingly, on the ‘approved’ lists of the EU and other such bullies.
However, irrespective of whoever made any convid vaccines, they are not on my approved list and never will be.
remember flight mh 17?
shot down over ukraine by russian regular military posing as ukrainian insurrectionists?
but of course that was a false flag…
Bang on.
you made a slight mistake. to regard us as your enemy.
i corrected it for you.
Yup…The Azov Battalion.
Russia’s “annexation” of Crimea (by military personnel already stationed there for their Black Sea fleet) was more of a “reunification” and was with a 96% approval rating by the people of Crimea in a referendum.
What you don’t tell your readers is that the referendum didn’t allow Crimeans to support the status quo within Ukraine, i.e. the 1998 constitution approved by the Crimean Supreme Council, which came into effect in 1999.
The choice was between joining the Russian Federation or adopting a long superseded 1992 constitution. This was a false choice. Just imagine if the Irish Republic invaded Northern Ireland and imposed a referendum, and the two choices were annexation by the Irish Republic or some other defunct arrangement such as an Irish Free State, or an independent Northern Ireland, with no option to remain part of the UK.
Let’s stop pretending that the 2014 referendum under Russian military occupation was a genuine referendum. It was not.
Referendums tend to be more decorative than otherwise, but the most relevant point in this case is that there can be no real doubt that most Crimeans were perfectly happy with the change.
Crimea being part of Russia rather than the new Ukrainian state makes more sense culturally, historically and geostrategically.
That said, the Russians made it very clear that they were perfectly wiling to accept the new situation, until the US and its EU proxies intervened to back the worst, most extreme nationalist voices in the Ukraine, and to encourage them to seek maximalist objectives and to refuse compromise.
That’s the reality of what drove events there..
Referendums tend to be more decorative than otherwise, but the most relevant point in this case is that there can be no real doubt that most Crimeans were perfectly happy with the change.
That’s a different point. I was picking up on the comment that suggested that this was agreed in a referendum. The referendum was rigged by not permitting voters to choose the existing constitutional arrangement that had been agreed by the legislatures (including the Crimean).
I have picked out a single half-truth in the lengthy post, and no one knows my views on the rest, though because I have highlighted a less than entirely truthful comment some commenters appear to think (wrongly) that I support the ‘consensus’ western position.
Anyone who know me knows that I have been very critical of EU and US meddling in Ukraine for many, many years. However, trying to build a case against meddling that includes a phoney referendum doesn’t help, hence my comment.
Fair enough. Equally fairly, I did not myself make any assertions about your wider views, there…
It is your opinion that it was a “phoney” referendum and you are allying yourself with the corrupt western politicians and their presstitutes in the msm.
The people of Crimea didn’t see it as such.
I’m not allying myself with anyone, least of all corrupt western politicians.
I was pointing out a factual inaccuracy in your post. I incline to the general thrust of your post, but you go too far in suggesting that the referendum was pukka.
Now you are attacking me and telling me who my allies are when you haven’t the foggiest idea. This now weakens your case.
Stand up for the truth and don’t go round attacking people who can help improve the argument.
There are times when we should simply admit that it wasn’t so clever to have a referendum that is illegitimate in the eyes of the world.
If the strength of feeling in Crimea is as you claim then the referendum could have been held fairly, with fair questions and options, and the result would have been a majority for ‘re-unification’ as you put it. Maybe not 96% on a flawed referendum: perhaps 80%, and more than enough to overcome a supermajority threshold of two thirds or three fourths.
Had it been so conducted then there would be far less to criticize about it. It would have removed a lot of cavils.
Justice should be done and seen to be done.
What was my “factual inaccuracy”?
96.7% of the referendum vote in Crimea favoured closer ties to Russia regardless of what the questions were about obscure constitutional matters whilst the ethnic Russians were being slaughtered by Ukrainian fascists.
There was no time to consult the UN for an agreed wording for the referendum because the US would have vetoed it anyway.
Whether you like it or not you are allying yourself with all those other people who say that the vote was illegitimate because the Crimeans had a gun pointed at their heads.
That was not the case.
I’m not allying myself with anyone. To point out a factual inaccuracy in your post doesn’t cast me into an opposite camp.
You are making your case worse all the time: “96.7% of the referendum vote in Crimea favoured closer ties to Russia regardless of what the questions were.”
Oh, so the questions put in a referendum don’t matter? Can’t be biassed?
How do you know that 96.7% would have voted as they did if the questions had been different?
You are now descending to the absurd, constructing a narrative that can’t be questioned.
If the questions had been less biased then I’m not saying that a majority would have voted the other way.
The point is, the referendum was flawed. It had been better had it not been. I’m not questioning that a majority would have voted for Russian ‘re-unification’ with fair questions, it’s just that it should have been done fairly and squarely, with one of the option being to continue the constitutional arrangement that was agreed and in force for years by the Ukrainian and Crimean legislatures before the Russians got involved in sending in troops.
That’s my point: it should have been done better.
But you appear to be suggesting that referendum questions don’t matter provided the majority still vote the same way. They DO matter in respect of how others view them, and how some in the poll felt cheated. Those who voted against ‘re-unification’ will forever feel cheated by biased questions, even though they would accept that the outcome was inevitable.
Can’t you appreciate that sense of being stitched up?
“Those who voted against ‘re-unification’ will forever feel cheated by biased questions”
All 3.3% of them.
and that justifies the russians to start an all out war.
sudetenland all over again.
do you still respond with “hitler”as soon as anybody shouts”heil”
Don’t be ridiculous.
The people of Crimea saw what was happening to ethnic Russians in other parts of Ukraine by the fascist thugs and they couldn’t wait to rejoin Russia.
Nationalistic violence and murder of the ethnic Russians meant there was no status quo.
Wrong. There was a constitutional status quo. The referendum was about a constitutional issue. There was no option in the referendum for Crimea to stay as it was constitutionally.
That’s a trick frequently used by pollsters and referenda conductors, 3 local examples immediately.
20 years ago the UK Met Office offered their staff a choice for its own relocation from shabby, insignificant Bracknel in Berkshire to (You decide !) see below.There were additional criteria that I can’t recall but all supported The Managements wishes. Options 2 & 3 further supported by ‘relocation expenses’.
1. More or less stay were they were.
where they went and still are.
2. Move 100 miles in the wrong* direction and to the wrong* side of London.
3.The desired relocation location
4. Just down the road from #3 but fewer shops,no culture and few facilities.
*’wrong’ for staying in touch with non-relocating friends and family.
With the exception of N. Ireland I find discussion of other people’s constitutions very dull having grown up with a torrent of such discussions in the wake of the loss of Empire. Who cares about the Constitution of Crostangazania?
Sadly this part of the story is being ignored, quite deliberately, by many
Offguardian have a good piece with a timeline mention all this
Far too many and I include Toby in this have just rattled the same old tire propaganda
All the West had to do was keep its promises
It really is that simple
Using the label ‘facist’ to describe anyone you disagree with is the same as centre-right people calling anyone to their left ‘communists’ or ‘commies’ just to close down the discussion so is not useful.
I’m not a facist or a commie btw, not my downtick either.
If it talks like a fascist, walks like a fascist and acts like a fascist then it’s a fascist.
I agree that the term is bandied about all too frequently but in the case of Ukraine nationalists and their history of joining the nazis in WW2 then it is accurate.
80,000 Ukrainians joined with the Germans in the first 24 hours.
Please watch the tagged film Ukraine on Fire for a modern historical and contemporary understanding of why they are in this situation.
Perhaps the word ‘some’ would be helpful; you say yourself that 80,000 Ukranians joined the “Germanst” in the first 24 hours; as opposed to the nazis ?
They (Ukranians?) are in this position because the Russian President (cannot remember his name because of ‘condition’) realises that he is nearing the end of his political life, perhaps his Real Life also and wants his name in the history books.
“They (Ukranians?) are in this position because the Russian President (cannot remember his name because of ‘condition’) realises that he is nearing the end of his political life, perhaps his Real Life also and wants his name in the history books.“
This is something just fabricated wholesale out of US sphere propaganda cloth. Implausible nonsense.
It’s comical how very single leader in recent history who has opposed US sphere interests has been explained as being “mad”, “megalomaniac”, “greedy”, “psychotic”, “desperate” etc etc ad nauseam.
Time to grow up.
If you actually bother to investigate, you’ll see that Putin’s actions make perfect sense without resorting to such speculative pseudo-analytical rubbish. The issue is only whether Putin’s assessment of the facts and capabilities on the ground is better or worse than that of those who think his policy will fail.
Harsh (IMHO).
I didn’t say his policies were greedy, desperate or likely to fail; just that he wanted everlasting fame like so many of his predecessors.
how about asking alexei navalny what he thinks of putin?
oh wait, we cannot ask him, he is in jail for opposing the not mad, not megalomaniac, not greedy, not psychotic, not desperate, not etc, but really sociopath mafia gangster that resides in the kremlin.
The Ukrainians suffered terribly under Stalin during the 1930s. In that situation even the Germans at first looked like liberators against the Russians.
Very many of the ethnic Russians in the Zaporizhzhya, Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts were settled in those areas during that period of oppression of Ukraine by Russia as ‘replacements’ for the Ukrainians who had starved to death, partly caused by Russian policies. In the grand sweep of Russian and European history they are relative newcomers brought in to work the fields, factories and mines that had hitherto been worked by Ukrainians.
History, and the decisions taken in history which posed huge ethical and moral difficulties, are much more complex than the simplistic narratives and propaganda I’m seeing bandied around by the pro-Russian and anti-Russian spokesmen.
WW2 they were rounding up the jews BEFORE the Nazis go there!
and that is why the last two presidents were jews….
wouldn’t those 80,000 all be dead by now?
so what bearing does that have on anything happening today?
for if you want to go that way i got one for you too.
remember the russians that starved millions of ukrainians during the holodomor?
what about them?
There are many nazi supporting fascists in Ukraine.
It has a lot to do with what is happening in Ukraine today.
Watch the film “Ukraine on Fire” or read a book.
The term fascist is not being used to ‘insult’ Ukrainians, indeed many Ukrainian Battalions (now embedded into the Ukrainian military structure) are proud to be fascist, and their uniforms have badges that echo those being used by the SS in Nazi Germany. Fascism as an ideology is a powerful force in Ukraine, and the MSM narrative completely omits it.
I could give hundreds of links to the infamous Azov Battalion etc, but for a start just drop Ukraine Galicia Fascism into a search engine and start to see what this is about. There are many documentaries and academic lectures online explaining the role of fascism in the modern Ukrainian state.
Thank you for that advice B.F.F., I do have some spare time this afternoon so will follow up on it.
I was in Odessa for a week in the late 70’s but the only indication that I was in two different countries simultaneously was that incomer Russian Odessians were immensely proud of their huge but ugly bronze WW2 Memorial Statue (see link in post).
Two of the oldest items in my domestic possession come from that journey; sturdy and long lasting with natural colours just as vibrant as 50+ years ago, sold by an old woman outside her bungalow for next to nothing (cliche I know but there you go).
How to tell where an Odessian originates? Just ask, ‘Russians’ are remarkably open and honest about such things.
There was a very informative article this lunchtime on UK Column by Alex Thomson (the show will be available later today from its home page when it’s updated around 16:00) detailing the complex boundary and governance systems within Ukraine (which was particularly revealing over the status of Crimea). Part of this section was taken from a recent interview he did with Delingpole, and the look of perplexed confusion on Delingpole’s face when Alex finished summarising was a delight to behold.
You are so complete with interesting information today B.F.F. (genuine & sincere remark btw).
I look forward to seeing Delingpoles face that you described.
There is a good novel by Bulgakov, “The White Guard” on the situation in Kiev during the Russian revolution, from his personal experience.
nothing wrong with being a fascist.
the governments of germany, austria, france, italy, canada, new zealand. and australia, to name just a few, are true fascists….
their flags might be different for the fascist from the good old days,but their ideology is exactly the same.
Yesterday I questioned the BBC/Guardian spelling of Ukraine rather than the “usual Ucraine” suggesting it was simply to infer ‘otherness’ but was somewhat rebuked by DS readers, presumably fellow Ukraine users.
I can read Cyrilic and what stares out at me with Ukraine is UKIP rather than Ucraine.
That you are using both GlassHalfFull perhaps reflects your own ambivilatiousness.
so you object calling the city of Roma : “Rome”, by many non italian speakers?
i would say: get a life..
Sounds about right, Liz Truss neglected to mention any of that during her civilian call to arms.
RT deleted from UK tv at 15.45 today in middle of this enlightening documentary that TPTB CLEARLY don’t want anyone watching!
Ukraine. The Everlasting Present. Documentary 2021.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/3HI1Nz8sBV8J/
Thanks for the link.
When I have a couple of hours to spare I will watch it.
That’s just a complete fiction. Yanukovych negotiated a free trade agreement with the EU; it was only after the Russians started pouring in massive amounts of money (much of it illegal) that he turned against. This is a guy who already had been caught trying to steal a previous presidential election with fraudulent votes, corruptly earned hundreds of millions for his family and friends (some estimates are up to 30-40 billion USD), and prosecuted and jailed his political enemies. The idea that he was driven out by the West is ridiculous; Russia was spending far more to prop him up, but the people and parliament turned against him.
Just watch the film “Ukraine on Fire” and you will see that you have been lied to.
Don’t believe everything you read in the msm.
Just be careful with anything involving Oliver Stone.
Exactly so!
The US has also funded many biolabs in Ukraine.
If the media were even pretending to be objective reporters rather than naked propagandists, there would be intense interest in these biolabs.
So-called “Fact Checkers” have dismissed the claims as they say the US are funding research to “help in the health of Ukraine”.
Yeah, right.
I personally don’t know if they are working on bio-weapons or not but if I was Russia I wouldn’t take the risk.
Here is an article by a Bulgarian journalist from pre-Covid 2018 describing these biolabs.
http://dilyana.bg/the-pentagon-bio-weapons/
Well, if the Fact Checkers say so! We know how fair and neutral they are.
Thanks for the link – I’ll check it out.
My God. Documentation, clear exposition – and chilling data.
Before anybody want to comment further, it might be worth while checking it out and explaining clearly, without ad hominem attacks, what it’s got wrong.
Thank you. We need to start teaching real history in the schools we create when we are free of EU and American stooges in our Government.
well done.
how long did it take you to translate it from the russian original?
Where is your evidence for any of this apart from Putin’s propaganda being fed to the Russian people and you? The election of a Russian puppet government in 2010 was a result of the Ukrainians fear of what Russia would do if they did not comply. Now they know. If there are Russiam people in eastern Ukraine who want to be part of Russia why could this not have been achieved by negotiation rather than Putin’s extreme military aggresion? There has never been and could never be any threat to Russia from Ukraine so there is no justification for his actions and the bloodshed caused apart from the Russian propaganda you are repeating.
The evidence is historical fact if you care to educate yourself so you can form an opinion.
This phone call between US diplomats is featured in the documentary. In a nutshell it shows you that they are directly concerned with pushing their preffered people into power in Ukraine
https://youtu.be/L2XNN0Yt6D8
A far better take on a “sceptic” position on the Ukraine issue than Toby’s.
I would go further and argue that the global position renders the Russian action one that merits support, for the reasons I have set out in numerous comments here.
War is an accepted tool of state policy, as a matter of established fact, so long as there is no full and proper punishment of those in the US and its poodle states who have waged such wars recently, in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya etc. Until such time, the laws that Russia breached in attacking the Ukraine have no real meaning. They are mere aspirations, openly disavowed by the most powerful.
Sort out that problem, and we can perhaps begin to seriously aspire to a “rules based” global order. I’ll believe it when I see it, but it’s an understandable and worthy goal.
Agreed. And here is evidence item number 101 your honour. Condoleezza Rice ‘When You Invade a Sovereign Country, That Is a War Crime’
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/harris-faulkner-tells-condoleezza-rice-when-you-invade-a-sovereign-country-that-is-a-war-crime/
‘ the laws that Russia breached in attacking the Ukraine have no real meaning. They are mere aspirations, openly disavowed by the most powerful.’
If I may rewrite that to demonstrate what a cesspit of hypocrisy the West is:
‘… the laws that Western Governments breached in attacking their own citizens during Project CoVid Calamity have no real meaning. They are mere aspirations, openly disavowed by the most powerful.’
so because the western governments are lawless towards their citizens, russia gets to invade a country who’s sovereignty has been guaranteed by the russians…
so because the usa and allies attacked countries without repercussions, the russians can attack a sovereign country that has nothing to do with those attacks.
because the guy that shot your neighbour wasn’t sent to jail you are free to kill your other neighbour?
No doubt ensuring Ukraine never joins NATO is Putin’s goal.
That diplomatic solution seems politically impossible for the US/EU, given the vilification of Putin and Russia in the media. It seems to me as if they’ve closed that avenue.
So, the only way Putin could get his way is deposing the current Ukrainian president and putting in a pro-Russian one, which suggests a long drawn out crisis.
I don’t think much of Putin one way or the other, but I’m sure growing to despise western leaders and the western establishment for the mindless, ideological way they seem to approach everything these days. It’s as if they have convinced themselves that they represent good and those who oppose them are evil. The idea that they may be wrong or that someone else might have a valid viewpoint seems anathema to the little tyrants that govern the west these days.
Ukraine could not join NATO whilst there were disputes in the Donbass region, it is a point NATO makes prominent (a state should have control over all of its lands). It is why there was a concerted effort in breaking the situation in the region by amassing Ukrainian forces on the borders of the Donbass region.
It was the fear of genocide that led the regions to plead with Russia for military help.
Not just” fear of genocide” — over 10,000 dead civilians since 2014
Where would such an act of submission end? China takes Taiwan & Nepal? India takes Bangladesh? Russia reclaims Georgia, Latvia and other Balkan territories? Surely if Ukraine wants to fight, it is reasonable to support their sovereign right by inflicting as much economic and emotional damage as possible? Who are we to barter away parts of a sovereign nation?
It seems hypocritical to vehemently oppose the oppression of Governments for ignoring civil liberties by imposing draconian polices like lockdowns, vaccine mandates and masks while at the same time supporting the violent subjugation of a whole nation by a foreign power in what is surely the ultimate act of cancel culture!
Yes, who are we to crush the rights of sovereign nations?
It’s called “American exceptionalism” – the policy of the US Deep State Victoria Nuland and the CIA!
And what does “Ukraine” want?
Do we really know what Ukrainian people want or think? Are there strong differences?
Did “Britain” want to leave the EU? Well 52% did, 48% didn’t and look what that sort of division sparked in our relatively urbane country.
The idea that there is a Ukrainian will that can be established in reasonably uncontroversial terms seems rather fanciful to me.
This is a very important point.
I’d say judging by the brave and stalwart resistance being shown by Ukrainian citizens it’s pretty clear they don’t want to be ruled by Russia and a totalitarian despite like Putin. Wouldn’t you?
You do understand that not everything you see on the BBC and in the US sphere mainstream media generally is strictly accurate, don’t you?
This might be a little shocking, but occasionally, I’ve heard, their coverage can be a little misleading.
Hence the banning of Russia Today because after all no one should dissent from the Official message
Bit like Covid
Exactly so.
The first and perhaps only unifying precept of Sceptics should be that any side resorting to censorship is immediately suspect.
Which side cencored RT or will that become obvious?
I[‘m assuming it was the anti-Russian side. Is there any reason to suppose different?
I was only ever a casual RT viewer but I’ve never regarded them as being rapidly pro-Russian worthy of censorship (this afternoon your column caught my eye
as reading “anti-Semite side” which was confusing but that was just me.
I noticed that RT is “not available in your country” (UK) just this morning after a few days internet absence. How long has it been enforced and which end barred it ?
TODAY IN AFTERNOON!
i do not watch bbc, nor usa mainstream media.
in fact i do not own a tv set.
nor a working radio.
but i do know exactly how the russians in ukraine situation works.
how?
remember flight mh 17, shot down in 2014 ?
it were russians regular military that shot down the passenger plane over ukrainian territory.
the problem is not so much them shooting it down but them denying they did so.
and because of the investigation into the killing of those passengers we know exactly what was going on.
no tv, just reading the report…..
You have swallowed the MSM narrative lock stock and barrel – almost like being re-programmed.
They have been psyop programmed – by Susan Michie – it will never wear -off unless they seek help!
This seems to tick all boxes for all those worried about being on the wrong side….
As Mark says, it’s hard to trust the reporting.
We’ve just experienced 2 years of being systematically lied to and deceived by the mainstream media (and continuing).
In addition, we are already seeing the censorship and information suppression that has been developed during the last 2 years deployed. RT has been shut down. Good luck finding an alternative view point on YouTube.
Finally, the tech companies are already explicitly endorsing the official positions – YouTube’s ad button with the Ukrainian flag colours is just a one very visible example).
In short, I am seeing the media and tech companies in lockstep with an official establishment narrative in what seems to be a new western order.
So I’m stunned you are taking what you see at face value.
In fact, the more I think about it, the more outraged I am.
We aren’t even in this war. And yet, we are in effect being told by the establishment that we mustn’t hear what Russians have to say about what they are doing. I seems we are somehow too stupid or too gullible to be able to watch RT or a Russian viewpoint and make up our minds about what is right.
It really infuriates me to see our society being dragged down to the level of China, where their leaders decide what the population should and should know and systematically censors the Internet and all traditional media.
We are moving in that direction so rapidly that it seems to be escaping even the editors of the Daily Sceptic.
Censorship is the future Johnson has planned for us as he embraces WHO/Gates forced vaccinations, digital passports, digital currency and politically controlled access to your own money along with the full-on ‘Great Reset’ nightmare – all in the pipeline !
People had better wise-up soon!
Proposed political control over peoples access to their own money is what created unrest and government overthrow in Kashakstan (?) following American withdrawal from Afghanistan if memory serves correct.
Hear hear!
At least it acknowledges that our leaders know Covid is all over (if it ever started) when they can turn their attention to things so fundamentally different and completely unrelated.
About the only thing they might have in common is their use to impose and enforce restrictions on international travel.
Damn right!
You Tube has cenesored RT and pro-Russian content so has Zuckerberg ( or is it our own Nick Clegg?).
I may have been lied to for two years by a coalition of
).
politicians,
social media,
journalists,
sports personalities,
academics,
actors (wtf?),
clerics and anybody else in public life (Internet Influencers
but I haven’t been decieved, not from before the “Covid Crisis” was initiated.
Such statements are on a par with the Daily Mail/Independent screaming about me being ‘terrorised’ by this hostile act or another. I have never once felt scared, frightened or threatened, still less “terrorised”.
Conveniently forgetting those Ukrainian people who fled to errrrr Russia? Or don’t they count? Its good maybe that they’ve gone back to where they came from, leave Ukraine to the real Ukrainians.
Those poor people who only want the chance to have NATO missiles set on their Eastern border.
Trying to simplify this into goodies v baddies is a fools errand. We are dealing in amoral realpolitik here, the people’s concerns come secondary.
If there is a simplification avaliable it starts with the staring competition ongoing between the US/NATO and Russia. The former say they won’t expand eastward, while doing so. The latter is asked to believe this is purely a matter of democratic and sovereign decision making, and not geopolitical manoeuvres.
As you unfer, it will be difficult for many ‘Ukrainians’ to decide where to flee too as they will have come from mixed parentage. Situation been around for decades or centuries becaus they really are the same people so “inter-marriage” is simply not recognised
I once had Ukranians in a neighbouring apartment. They would remove their shoes before entering their home. Anyone know if that was simply for domestic hygiene or an ingrained cultural feature shared with the Russians ?
Don’t know but I can’t stand people who ask to do that.
And that stalwart resistance being shown by Hong Kong Chinese was Prestatyn clear they didn’t want to be ruled in a brutal manner by the Peking Government but where was the BBC et al, and the moral outrage and sanctions against China?
The West and Moral Outrage Inc are remarkably selective about what pushes their hot button.
‘pretty clear’
Parrot the MSM message by all means, but don’t you ever stop to think exactly how independent journalists are still operating in Ukraine, the trains are still running, the internet is still on, the civilian infrastructure is still intact. Russia rules the air space, and could have obliterated this if it had any harmful intent toward the Ukrainian people. The stated Russian aim was the protection of the Donbass self declared states, and the disabling of the Ukrainian military – which seems to to be consistent with verified reports (as opposed to fake images).
The Russian Military is proceeding softly softly. The madness displayed by Zelensky in arming untrained civilians (and criminals) and placing military weaponry in residential areas is not being questioned by MSM. On top of which the refugee exodus from Ukraine is not altogether being driven by the Russian operation but the forced conscription of men between 18 and 60.
The sources are out there, but (as your site says) you have to question everything! Clearly you are failing to do this.
The Ukranian civilian infrastructure remains intact only with the aquiecance of Russia but what they (Russias) leaders say are their aims must largely be discounted as can all stated aims by leaders in a state of war, especially the aggressors.
President Wotsisname will be an opportunist like all the test of them.
There is no benefit to Russia from mass destruction or loss of life in Ukraine, as the country is their neighbour historically, geographically and culturally. In contrast the ever spreading USA and its ‘interests’ has no such connections or qualms.
We are all invited to uncritically marvel at America’s awesome destructive power whenever its missiles and air force (mostly illegally) obliterate smaller countries (often with UK & NATO assistance), The aims of America and the West are always the same – to destroy cities, displace populations, replace leaders and rebuild infrastructure using its parasitic political-corporations such as Halliburton. The USA makes a profit from the weapons, makes a profit from the spoils (it is still illegally extracting and selling Syrian oil), makes a profit from the rebuilding and then seals long term binding financial deals with the puppet regime it has installed to asset strip the country for decades to come. This vile methodology keeps the USA’s massive national debt just about serviced, and we wilfully remain blind to it.
Finally Russia (with a fraction of the NATO combined military spending, less than the UK’s even) stands up against a corrupt USA installed fascist puppet regime. Zelensky is there only to break all 2008 agreements; not only to join NATO but also install nukes on Ukraine territory. And so after 8 years of blind eyes being turned to the shelling of the Russian speaking Donbass by these Kyiv puppets and their openly quasi-independent fascists battalions, the world is outraged to see Russia at long last standing for itself and its people.
President Putin had little choice, his error (arguably) was to have been so trusting for so long of promises given by the West. This same West that now openly seeks Russia’s total economic and military demise, as Empress Ursula and her unelected EU minions forcefully outlined yesterday in Brussels. Germany has already seized this opportunity to proclaim it will militarily rise from the ashes of WW2 to dominate this new EU superstate army (the one Clegg denied in 2016 would ever come about, remember?).
If Russia loses this battle over the Donbass republics, it will pave the way for direct rule Globaistl WEF/Gatesian apartheid style government for all Western countries. Your allegations of Russian opportunism are way. way wide of the mark – but it’s a suitably simplistic narrative that the post Covid era will undoubtedly swallow whole, as there no other media narratives being allowed – even RT, that most benign of state outlets, is now banned from the freedom loving West.
Great post, we are blind if we cannot see what is coming to us if the globalists succeed in looting Russian assets. Multiple upticks!
Unfortunately the Ukrainians can’t choose who rules and in this instance it’s all over bar the shouting.
Do you realise what % of Ukrainians are Russian speaking or ethnically Russian?
I don’t actually.
Does it matter though? A high percentage of Americans are of European ethnicity and speak English, but wouldn’t want to be part of the UK. Or they might, I don’t know. That will hardly be determinant though, will it?
Of course it’s a determinant. Americans don’t have an ‘American’ language. Russian speaking Ukrainians have Ukraininan, but prefer to speak Russian. That’s the difference. Read the history of Polish speaking western Ukraine, or anything about the Austro-Hungarian empire pre-1914 and you get a feel for the kind of tensions these people live in. And that’s before you add geopolitics to the mix.
We are taught that Polish, Galician (if mentioned), Ukrainian, Transcarpathia Ruthenian, Russian, Lithuanian and etc. are all specific unique languages. But on the ground they merge one into the other with no real borders. The source of much distress throughout the recent phase of imposed Nation States.
Some words sound similar but there is a difference.
I asked a Polish mate what he thought of the War…he just told me to read about Wolyniu.
While uniformly speaking English, since WW1, many white Americans proudly retain their specific European identity while others are content to merger into a common Europeaness at which they are remarkably successful as the generations role by.
Ukranian and Russian are interchangeable since they grew out of each other 10th.-14th. Centuries, (same goes for The Genes) although some might make the effort to make them sound not so.
One of the few benefits of the “Covid Crisis” is that it subsumed that of Brexit with all its “in spite off” and “because off”‘s which is the last thing I heard the BBC moaning about before I switched it off entirely.
“Where would such an act of submission end? China takes Taiwan & Nepal? India takes Bangladesh? Russia reclaims Georgia, Latvia and other Balkan territories? Surely if Ukraine wants to fight, it is reasonable to support their sovereign right by inflicting as much economic and emotional damage as possible? Who are we to barter away parts of a sovereign nation?“
Yet “we” were happy for that to happen in Yugoslavia, in Iraq, in Libya…
If you want states to feel confident in a “rules based global order” as their shield,rather than relying on the old principles of security first, last and always, then the first thing you have to do is demonstrate that the most powerful (and therefore implicitly the most threatening, to their declared enemies) will be bound by that order.
Who is this we kemosabe?
“We” in quotes, for a reason. The bottom line is that nobody has been punished or meaningfully censured for those acts. They stand as precedent.
Didn’t some Serbs get indicted at The Hague or did they simply die in Dutch Police Custody ?
Is this clivepinder person really an editor of this website or merely an imposter ?
So the global order was defined in what, the 1940’s? The powers of the world have constantly taken lands (see British Empire for example) and changed the borders of nation states.
War is the economy of the world. If China acts, it justifies US continual spending of money on arms – if India takes Bangladesh, Pakistan will be justified in increasing their spending on arms.
We cannot pretend that Ukraine is not of strategic import to Russia. If I was Putin I would propose that some defensive positions were taken up by the East in the West in order to allow Ukraine to succumb to Western goals of swallowing it into Nato and the EU. (Lets not forget that most of the Nato states don’t usually meet their stated contributions to the bloc so they can’t be that in thrall to it’s power) See how swiftly the West will either back away or ramp up their vitriol.
It’s a ridiculous idea that every Ukrainian wants to be apart from Russia and likes being used as a Western puppet – it’s akin to the Brexit vote only lives are at stake this time, and look at all the lies we were fed over that issue. It is also ridiculous that we are targeting the assets of innocent Russians settled on our shores (crooked or not)
Politics is not black and white despite what the modern media and bluechecks would have us believe – this is why this situation is so much more nuanced than Covid. Covid was politics masquerading as health but ultimately the raw data wormed its way out of the dungheap. War and geo-politics have no such raw data, the stakes and stats are so much deeper and there are aggressors and bad actors on all sides.
As we saw in WW2 if you lose the Generals (as Hitler did, and installed puppets) you will lose the War. Anyone who thinks Putin is not acting on advice from his Generals and Admirals is daft, and on the other side of that coin, if he is ignoring them – then he will lose. There is probably more Russian support for this than we realise given the West has just shut out the Russian perspective apart from the controlled snippets we see about protests in Russia.
Furthermore – anyone who supports any Western aggression on the same precedent (and nation building or regime change fall under this see USA and later Nato in Iraq and Afghanistan) is hypocritical.
I don’t understand this constant – “I don’t agree but I am not for Putin”. I am not any side of this divide – an observer who happens to be increasingly cold as WE are facing the consequences of our ill thought-out domestic agenda, and the energy dependency we have sacrificed since the turn of the century.
It’s not about a global order. It’s about supporting citizens in their defence of their sovereignty.
That is completely untrue- you obviously know absolutely nothing about the Ukraine and want to keep it that way.
That seems terribly naive.
It’s about a geopolitical struggle for Ukraine.It was the prize Germany fought for in 2 world wars.This cause has been taken up by EU/NATO.
“(Ukraine) was the prize Germany fought for in 2 world wars”.
Don’t think I’ve seen that put so bluntly before now although it seems obvious today.
Certainly BBC no ITV WW1 retrospectives (Raymond Baxter, The World At War?) never suggested it.
Of course Germany managed to win the prize @ WW1 although the intefering Western Allies took it from her.
I’ll have to revise my denial that ‘we’ were responsible for Adolf Hitler and WW2.
But you started your argument by saying how much of the global order would change if Russia are allowed to invade Ukraine?
How does Russia need ‘allowing’ to invade Ukraine ?
They already have, quite successfully, and ‘we’ did nothing to prevent it. It looks more like 1930s Appeasement every day yet ‘we’ did nothing to prevent it.
Of course sovereignty matters.
But one can’t utter a phrase like that and assume that it represents the whole story and there is nothing else to it.
It reminds me of the phrase “you can’t just let people die” with respect to COVID, as if that thought could justify doing anything.
People have learned at enormous cost where that sort of simplistic thinking can lead.
Maybe the best way to preserve Ukrainian sovereignty is for the US and EU to stop meddling in internal Ukrainian politics. Or maybe not. I don’t know. I expect it’s pretty complicated.
Do you know anything about the sustained attacks on the Russian speaking population in Donbass since the fascist US puppet regime was installed in Kyiv in 2014?
I’m all for supporting citizens in their defence of their sovereignty.
I’m not impressed with much of your contributions clivepinder but seem to be missing something here.
Such wide ranging, sustained opposition and hostility aroused with just two lines; the second half of which being so demonstrably reasonable.
One of the best strawman arguments I’ve seen. Well done. Tell you what, I’ll see your strawman argument and raise you by a strawman argument – why are you supporting the death of millions of innocent, peace-loving, men, women and children by gleefully banging the drums of war with Russia rather than take a more diplomatic approach? There, we can both be strawmen now!
Good point!
You clearly know nothing about Russia and the Ukraine.
The point you are missing is that the growing unrest in Ukraine, fomented by the US, was acting as a direct threat to the national security of Russia. The final straw for the Russians was the possibility that Zelensky would get nuclear armaments. No US/UK diplomat spoke up at the Munich conference in february to dispute this.
Russia was left with no option but to act as she did, in fact Ukraine was set up by the US to draw Russia into war. Russians have been repeatedly invaded and understand the horrors of war.
The US has no concern for the fate of the Ukrainians, this is just another US/NATO proxy war. The hope is to destabilise Russia to such an extent that is can be looted by the globalists as it was in the nineties, before Putin took power.
The US has form in looting other sovereign nations, haven’t you noticed? And they are undergoing a financial meltdown at the moment so I guess they are short of money.
They have wheat and a whole load of minerals to plunder. As Galloway said, do you really want to risk destruction over Ukraine remaining neutral. Why don’t NATO fight them instead of a bully boy pushing a smaller boy into a fight with a bigger boy, why don’t you fight the big boy!
‘It seems hypocritical to vehemently oppose the oppression of Governments for ignoring civil liberties…’
That’s a coin with two heads.
The principal source of conflict in Ukraine stems from the fact that in 2014, expansionist US Neocons staged an illegal coup against a legitimate Ukrainian government that came to power in an election certified by the OSCE.
The new regime immediately acted with hostility toward its Russian speaking citizens. Approximately 30% of Ukrainian citizens have Russian as their first language, yet on the first day in power, their language was removed from the list of official state languages. This was followed by more actions of hostility towards this large minority group.
The resulting social unrest spilled over into violence culminating in US funded Ukrainian far-right nationalists burning down the Union Hall in Odessa where civil-rights protesters sought refuge. 38 people were burned to death in a crime that was never investigated.
Supporters of the new US- backed regime tore down WWII memorials to Soviet liberators from Nazi occupation and erected monuments celebrating Ukrainians who fought for the 12th SS Panzer Division.
Nazis killed 30 million Russians – so this behaviour sent a clear message to Ukraine’s Russian speaking population whose population centres and infrastructure facilities were already subjected to sporadic military shelling. When elements of the media criticised Zelensky’s approach and his poll ratings dropped, Zelensky shut down opposition media and arrested opposition politicians.
In two separate articles for the Daily Sceptic, Toby Young has aligned himself with the US Neocon gangsters and Ukrainian nazis that have hijacked Ukraine and commandeered its vast resources for their own personal benefit. He has also personally attacked President Putin for simply wanting to see peace restored to the region by having the Minsk agreement enforced.
The West’s failure to support this agreement left Putin with no choice. Putins aims now are the de-nazification and demilitarisation of Ukraine together with the protection of the Russian speaking population of the region.
Why is Toby Young opposed to these objectives?
Excellent piece! The truth is once again fighting to be heard in this now sad and increasingly ignorant little country !
Because he has been educated with a binary viewpoint that Putin = Doubleplus-ungood. Whereas everyone who is a bit more (ahem) sceptical, understands that Putin is far from good, but acts more in the interests of his own population than any of our totally corrupt Western snouts in the trough. In this case his actions probably in the long-term reduce the likelihood of nuclear war.
Anti-Spiegel.ru, a blog by a German living in Russia, published an article yesterday how European States are off-loading old weapons as military aid to Ukraine, which they otherwise would have to pay to destroy. Germany suddenly changed their rule never to export weapons. He proposes that Europe is very much interested to prolonging the war to get rid of their weapons , which the “EU” pays for, for their own economical gain.
Der Westen kämpft bis zum letzten Blutstropfen des letzten ukrainischen Soldaten gegen Russland | Anti-Spiegel
I understood that since Putin’s “Empire of Lies” speech, countries wanting to send weapons to Ukraine have suddenly lost their nerve.
Germany tooling up, what could go wrong!
Totally agree with GlassHalfFull. Although the west likes to portray themselves as ‘the good guys’, it is never as black and white as that. Although I have the greatest respect for Toby, I believe that Putin has shown remarkable restraint when it comes to Ukraine. As for Putin having ambitions beyond Ukraine and threatening to invade Europe, that appears to be ridiculous. Based on previous attacks on countries (eg Iraq, Libya), I think that Putin has more reason to doubt the west’s intentions than vice versa
We are constantly being told how slow the Russian advance is and where are the big airstrikes – perhaps Russia was going deliberately slowly to minimise civilian casualties ?
oh how very nice of them, they’re all heart
I’m no military expert, but hasn’t the MSM ramped (not to say lied) this whole thing up, in order to sensationalise the Russian “war”? In exactly the same way as “Death stalks the streets”, “supermarkets empty” and so on, when reporting on Covid in March 2020.
Today (Wednesday) is 6 days from when this started. Six days.
But, as with Covid, we have to have the narrative exaggerated and repeated umpteen times, inappropriate photos shown of bloodied victims, of damaged buildings, the 40 mile tank column “snaking” its way blah blah blah, the brave president etc etc.
Anyone remember when newspapers/telly reported what was actually in front of them, what was really happening?
I’ve often thought that and believe it to be so.
And we see the media hypocrisy on full display: Russia’s going slow it means it’s not going according to plan, Putin’s gambit has flopped, etc, etc.
And then the narrative switches to Russia is frustrated at the slow progress and therefore is going to start coming down hard with great loss of human life.
The propaganda is sickening.
Good article Noah. Hope it doesn’t land you in hot water with the boss. If Toby sacks you for dissent and insubordination, you needn’t worry, as you can always go to the Free Speech Union for support. :-))))
Actually, the Western Strategy is focussed on one simple thing: overthrowing Putin in a coup d’etat; balkansing the Russian nation to make it militarily impotent; and looting all the energy and mineral assets for US psychotic psychopath interests.
Toby Young needs to grow up about the USA. It is not the leader of the free world it is a nazi state controlled by global hegemonists who have committed more genocides the past 80 years than anyone else on earth. Everything is about US domination, nothing is about freedom.
Libya was bombed to a rump, not because Gadaaffi represented a threat to NATO security. He was bombed to a pulp because he refused to sell oil and gas in dollars, he was promoting an African Economic Union that threatened US imperialist looting strategies in Africa and also, most heinously, because he provided Libyans with the most prosperous life in Africa, the most generous support for young families, all kinds of educational benefits etc etc. Yes, he was a ‘strong man’, but he was not impoverishing his people.
We can go on to talk about Suharto in Indonesia if you like. We can talk about the coup in Iran in 1953 if you like. We can talk about all the fascist dictators trained at the School of the Americas (the world’s premier training centre for death squads) in the SE USA. We can talk about the genocides committed in Iraq, we can talk about what the USA did to Afghanistan. Nowhere did the USA act in any way but to serve the interests of billionaires, TNCs and monopolists.
Mr Young needs to look at the MIC in the USA with repugnant clarity. It is a grotesque mafia kickbacks culture. That is all NATO is now: a closed shop market for making the Europeans waste money on overpriced US defence tat.
The West has shown the world that it has always cared solely about crushing independence and dissent. It always crushes that dissent by murdering as many people as it can ‘to teach them a lesson’.
OH, and to make sure the public are never educated about that, they have to have bogey men. First it was the Soviets, then the Muslims, now the Russians again.
Our true enemies are within. They are, I am sorry to tell you Mr Young, mostly Straussians. And most of those prominent Straussians are Jews who bring utter shame to the humble decent Jews of this planet (i.e. the vast majority of the jewish population on earth)……
One simple thing. Then lists three.
I always think when reading a comment such as this one why it never occurs to the poster making such comments to fuck off and live in China if that’s the way they want to live.
Rightly condemning US aggression automatically makes one a lover of Chinese authoritarianism? What planet are you on?
US aggression?! Is it Biden flattening civilians willy nilly in the Ukraine?
In choosing which horse to back, I like to think how life would be under a Russian or Chinese controlled state.
The grass isn’t always greener. Especially Chinese and Russian grass, their human rights records and oppression are appalling.
I imagine it would be much the same as life under Covid is in the West.
No, I’m in Moscow and its much freer here. As much anxiety as I’ve had this week about the economic future, after seeing what’s been done to my home country of Canada over the last two years, I can’t even countenance returning and prefer to take my chances here.
@Backlash….According to the outstanding documentation of James Lucas of Countercurrents.org., US covert and overt criminal acts, including direct wars of aggression, proxy interventions, toppling duly elected governments, installing puppet regimes, stealing natural assets, organising unwarranted sanctions etc has resulted in 20-30 million deaths since World War 2.
Let me know when Putin reaches this gruesome benchmark.
I don’t think anyone’s been ‘backing horses’; what I’ve read are attempts to contextualise and make sense of what’s going on. If you want it to be about picking teams, you should try the BBC comments section, you’ll find it much more amenable.
No, it is Johnson who wants us to live the way the Chinese live here. You seem to have somehow missed that bit?
And if they want to tackle corruption, they can start with their front bench!
“OH, and to make sure the public are never educated about that, they have to have bogey men.”
Yes, and they also have to practice mass censorship so that those they demonise cannot explain their positions, justify their actions or defend themselves.
Like Putin said, the West is an ‘Empire of Lies’.
Putin is right -the West is an Empire of Lies.
Start with the Zero Carbon Save the Planet Lie then the Covid scamdemic Lie, the PCR test Lie …then the miracle “safe” Vaccines Lie – in the UK the “Save the NHS” Lieand the trivial but telling Partygate Lies, now the hot stream of Russia Hate and the Ukraine Lies – all leading to the coming endless forced vaccinations,digital ID and currency and the 2030 UN target of the “Great Reset” tyranny.
There is Globalist method in it all
And what of the “we have no intention of invading Ukraine” lie, and the “we didn’t poison anybody in Salisbury” lie
Let’s not get onto China’s lies!! It’s easier to quote when they’re telling the truth…..ie never.
“the “we didn’t poison anybody in Salisbury” lie“
ROFL! You really are a gullible one, aren’t you!
I mean, even if one were inclined to believe such a fantastically farcical concoction of totally implausible nonsense, surely one would have been jolted into alertness by the Russiagate lies subsequently put about by basically the same people!
ROFL to you too, you get to decide which version of the truth is correct and then condescend others? Putin and that Chink are renowned liars.
It was a genuine response to someone actually believing the preposterously absurd Skripal fantasies.
They were ridiculous in isolation, but when you see what happened with Russiagate and who was involved and how they did it, there’s no realistic basis for not seeing them as parts of the same campaign of lies and manipulation.
You’re choosing whose lies and manipulation you back. It’s that simple
Nope, I’m applying common sense, first and foremost.
Spend a few hours really looking into the skripal affair. If you are sincerely open-minded, you will see that next to nothing about the official narrative makes any plausible sense. You can start with this blog, which continues to follow the Skripal affair to this day: johnhelmer.net
By the way, it’s assumed that the Skripals are now dead as they haven’t been seen or heard from in years now. Sergei, who had been in contact with relatives in Russia on a few occasions, failed to contact anyone or send flowers or anything when his mother, who he was very fond of, passed away recently.
And it’s the same story with the Navalny “novichock poisoning”. Based on symptoms and toxicology, the most likely explanation is that he had a severe reaction to the mixing and abuse of bipolar medication and copious amounts of alcohol.
Absolutely right Mark – the Salisbury stories were ridiculous and it’s precisely because our media are capable of holding the line on that endlessly-changing, self-contradictory, codswallop that I’m not convinced of the narrative now. Over and over I thought – they cant’ get away with this line surely, but they did and then the BBC made a drama about it that had to completely mess with the verified time-line to make any sense. I posted just such comments to this & Toby’s thread, but they’ve not appeared – I wonder if this one will.
If you included more than two links they will have been held back.
Salisbury was utterly farcical and didn’t even make sense on its own preposterous terms.
I did believe the Salisbury line but I was sceptical of the MSM then, after two years I’m not even sure about that when you consider how close Porton Down is.
That was a great post until you got on to the jews…hold back a tad.
I was with you until the point about Straussian Jews. I don’t think the fact that the neocon warlords I think you’re referring to are Jewish is particularly of consequence and highlighting their ethnicity/faith runs the risk of defeating your own argument (which I otherwise completely agree with).
Thats like saying we shouldnt remind people that those heading up the British Empire were British.
If it looks like a duck, and talks like a duck, and walks like a duck – its a duck.
Of course it’s not. The British were a coherent politic and force that represented a nation and its values. How can the religion of these individuals be compared to that? They’re American!
Well said.
Be helpful all round if they could wear shirts in those colours.
You get today’s tea-spitting prize.
The primary posture of the political elites towards COVID over the last two years has been marked by a race to the bottom, a desperate competition to see who can come up with even more ridiculous and stupid policies than the next leader. This attitude has actually pervaded all of politics now, so for example, in regard to climate change, what’s the stupidest thing we can do, oh, blow up the coal fired power stations, convert everybody’s home to expensive heating that doesn’t work, etc etc. With that in mind, now Ukraine. Why does everybody expect now wise solutions to be proposed? or plans that will make things better? That’s not the way in 2022. The idea is to come up with virtue-signalling twirls which accomplish nothing and make people feel better on social media. So we throw Russia out of the Eurovision Song Contest, that will show them. And sic Harry and Meghan on to them, bet Putin is trembling in his boots. Meanwhile, the intelligentsia all fall over themselves to get on substack and provide brainy ‘solutions’ as if that is the point. It’s not the point. The point is to rush headlong into the abyss, all guns blazing and meet the apocalypse that is rapidly approaching. In that sense, we are right on course.
Note on Cuba 1962: the US put nuclear-capable missiles in Turkey; the USSR then sent some to Cuba. The deal was that both sides would pull them out – and that the US would not attack Cuba again (as it had done by proxy the preceding year).
It should be called the Cuba-Turkey Missile Crisis.
The USSR won that confrontation. It wiped the arse of the USA.
But…the affair is still described in the west as the USSR backing down and the US merely agreeing to remove some rusty ol’ crap that it was going to remove anyway, in order to help the Soviet government “save face”. Haha!
Anybody who believes that garbage will probably also believe that Greville Wynne, although he was spy-swapped for Kolon Molody (“Gordon Lonsdale”), really was a “British businessman accidentally caught up in a spying affair”.
PS The difference between a “Russian-speaking Ukrainian” and an “ethnic-Russian Ukrainian citizen” (as per description on this chart) is mainly religious. That map is a bit of a mess – it attempts to do two different kinds of thing.
PPS The British MSM at the moment is full of warmongering journos who “talk a good fight” but have probably never seen a violent conflict in their whole lives. They are saying things like “the Arab Spring was the first social-media revolution, but this is the first social-media war”. As if the Russian government gives a flying toss what idiots say on Faecebook or Sh*tter, what Google contributes to the war effort, or what Putin’s image is among the sheeple in the West.
PPS It’s patently and publicly obvious that the British government couldn’t even put a block on all the Russian government money in London, let alone all the other Russian or controlled-from-international-Russia money. They just talked about it and then eventually they imposed a few blocks after letting their mates take out whatever money they wanted first, having had good warning – exactly what happened with Iceland – and then only causing difficulties for some small bits of it, ringing around their “hard” policy with numerous qualifications. Meanwhile, oh look, the Russian army is in Kyiv already. But boy, can the British elite say things that appeal to moronic politics graduates, such as regarding a completely impossible ejection of Russia from the UN Security Council. That should be filed in the same bucket as Donald Trump’s demand that the Danish government quote him a price for Greenland. Russia is not going to be expelled from the UNSC, and the USA is not going to buy Greenland.
As well as religion, it’s also worth mentioning that the Donbas (which means the “Donetsk basin”) is a coalmining area and many of the miners there are from families who emigrated (including some who were forcibly deported) from inside what is now the Russian Federation. The large majority in the Donbas simply see themselves as Russian – Russian-speaking, Russian Orthodox by religious denomination – rather than as “Russian speakers of Ukrainian ethnicity” even if they hold Ukrainian passports. If the bloodshed can stop soon, Ukraine become permanently neutral, and the Donetsk and Luhansk republics be integrated into the Russian Federation, that will be a much better result than many that can be imagined.
Have you seen the % of the Ukrainian population that actually speak Russian – I think you will be surprised.
The British “Elite” are now themselves moronic ( “officially”)
Well and truly the last days of Rome. So steeped in lies and corruption that it feels as though the establishment have started to believe them. Just listened to the Geopolitics and Empire podcast with Dalyana Gaytandzhieva about bioweapons labs in Ukraine. I hope they’ve been destroyed.
INSIDE #UKRAINE with Tanya Shelepko
We interview Tanya, an English teacher and theatre director as she navigates life through war torn #Kyiv.
iTunes
Spotify
Website
Kiev is Kiev…..suddenly calling it ‘Kyiv’ is just more stupid propaganda!
Chicken Kiev rules …OK?
Why not start calling Gdansk Danzig, Szczecin Stettin and Wroclaw Breslau again?
At least we could pronounce them!
I had a girlfriend from Szczecin. The streets designed by the same Architect who helped design many of the Boulevards of Paris.
Those hoping that Vladimir Putin will be ousted by his own people should bear in mind that the largest opposition party in the Russian parliament is not the Liberal Party but the Communist Party.
Things can always get worse. Always.
Especially if the Americans have anything to do with it they can!
There will be no CIA-Faecebook “colour revolution” or “Gucci springtime” in Russia.
Even when the CIA and their British helpers have been really “giving it some” using their “civil society” fronts during election campaigns, the Russian government has just let them get on with it and waste their money, because they’re no threat. They could have chucked the National Endowment for Democracy out on their earholes any time they wanted. The same goes for that other famous front for the CIA, the Fulbright Program.
And few people seem to realize that the last consequences of the new sanctions regime is likely to be re-communization of the Russian economy.
It does disntinctly seem that we are entering a new era and everything that Russia had been attempting to build since 1991 is to be abandoned.
Indeed, the new sanctions regime makes a compelling argument to Russia and Russians that free market capitalism does not work for Russia.
This could actually be a good outcome if it leads the the Russian Central Bank being reigned in. The Bank persistently pursues anti-Russian policies, following the instructions from IMF and Washington. We may be about to see the murder of one of Davos’ hideous tentacles.
“American Exceptionalism” in all it’s grotesque glory! What was the point of NATO after the fall of the USSR?
Why has NATO/EU expanded too include former Warsaw pact countries despite US promises not to do so? A solution…NATO pulls back to it’s pre 1990 locations, then after period of time allowed so it can get it’s admin duck’s in a row, it disbands? Simples?? Never in this lifetime would the good old US of A dissolve the military/industrial complex cash cow that is NATO! PS…by seizing Russia’s central bank reserves held in the west we are about to witness the gradual collapse of the petro $ and the rise to prominence of Russia/China/India/SE Asian block! Hold on tight, the world as we new it is about to end…..
What a load of crap, Ukraine is being invaded by a deranged maniac and thousands of innocent free-thinking people are paying for his ego with their lives.
The only way this is resolved is if someone brave enough does the right thing by humanity and plants a bit of lead between Putin’s ears
Before his finger gets anywhere near the nuke button.
Myself, I’d be a lot more worried about Biden’s fingers and nuclear buttons, given his very obvious advancing senility…
His wandering fingers are dangerous in any context
Naughty!
So sweet that you regurgitate with such FORCE what you’ve been fed, @backlash, as if projectile-vomiting.
Basically it’s a James Bond film loony foreigner Mr Big, who may pretend to be pals with real Old Etonians but who could never actually be their social equal, and who keeps a big button and a shark tank, versus a people composed of democracy lovers who only want to be free – is that right? LMFAO.
It’s plain for all to see, a deranged maniac is murdering innocent people. No amount of pretending it is media nonsense is changing a thing.
Russia is certainly not a democracy, nor is China and in blocking Premier league footage this weekend we can now be 100% certain where the chink’s loyalty lies
Congratulations! You are fully “on message” – reward in the post!
Keep watching the BBC!
Fuck all to do with BBC1 you prick
Abuse will lead to a ban. Unless of course it is death threats against Mr. Bad Man
Quite startling to see the number of Putin fans on this site.
I wonder how many of the brave cunts would stand up and fight for their freedoms when their time comes?
You think it’s about ego? Such an ignorant and simplistic reading of world affairs, you should be embarrassed. Take some time to look into why this conflict is happening.
It’s happening because Putin can’t get his own way and he’s a maniac. That simple really.
On the other hand, we could turn to the wisdom of the Leader of the Free World for guidance:
https://twitter.com/The_Real_Fly/status/1498847206203588609
“Putin may circle Keeve with tanks, but he’ll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people”
Inspiring stuff, from a senile, corrupt old liar.
Gangsters the lot of them!
A very welcome and excellent rebuttal of Toby’s article. Hope he doesn’t hold it against you!
Well Iraq never had any WMD’s but Ukraine had 15 US bio-labs all over there.
Like Iraq too, there’s a certain leader who is threatening the petrol dollar.
Ukraine’s membership in NATO is entirely theoretical. For very good reasons previous US administrations, as well as the Governments of NATO member states, have avoided pushing NATO membership for Ukraine precisely to avoid provoking Russia.
You are making an argument about something that hasn’t happened. My next door neighbour might decide in the future to start preying on young children. That doesn’t give me the right to pre-emptively burn his house down or slash his tyres.
Secondly the disenfranchised ethnic/linguistic minority argument is one that simply doesn’t hold water. Every county in Europe, the Americas, Africa, and much of Asia have ethnic and linguistic minority communities. But that doesn’t allow Mexico to start annexing parts of Los Angeles or San Antonio; or the Republic of Ireland to lay claims to odd its of Liverpool.
Russia is, in case you missed it, a huge geographical area. If ethnic Russian speakers so desire, there is plenty of Russia for them to go and live in. They can’t enjoy the economic and cultural benefits of living in a democratic and open Ukraine, while simultaneously wallowing in the comforting grip of Putin’s kleptocratic dictatorship.
Enough with the tu quoque fallacies. Russia has provoked the largest and most serious land war in Europe since 1945. And it’s one they are almost certainly destined to lose.
Thought you were off to a cosier, more censored comment forum?
You can fantasise all you want, based on mainstream media propaganda lies, about “entirely theoretical”. I’ll take Prof Mearsheimer’s word about the reality rather than yours, thanks.
“In the fall of last year, 2021, it began to ramp up, and of course early this year…it became a full blown crisis. And the question that we want to ask ourselves is: what happened here? Why all of a sudden did this crisis go from the back burner to the front burner? And the answer is that the US and its allies were effectively turning Ukraine into a de facto member of NATO”
https://youtu.be/Nbj1AR_aAcE?t=785
As so often, the problem here is not only what you don’t know, but what you “know”, that isn’t true. You have been lied to systematically, and with huge media resources, for decades.
Exactly!
Increased Russian aggression will be prompted by the Ukrainians who are pushing back harder than expected. Russia went for precise military targets at greater risk to their own forces and seem to be getting their arses kicked, which in turn is spurring resistance in the civilians who are forming human blockades to stop the convoys moving.
Putin has 2/3 of his forces still in reserve so he may just send them in and start flattening whole cities, Kyiv being first on the list. There is already video evidence that a Russian FOAB has been used.
Another disgraceful chapter in human history unfolding and the same puppeteers pulling the strings.
I see you are swallowing the mountains of anti- Russian propaganda streaming from western media while they ban RT.
These things are happening and I haven’t watched a second of mainstream coverage.
No they are not. . Only according to fantasy world of western mass propaganda (not independently verified)… apparently according to the same sources the Covid Pandemic is stil sweeping he world and the PCR tests are 100% accurate – so keep wearing those masks!
Russia has not used an FOAB.
What a fucking bell end you are
Russia is not getting its arse kicked. Russia is winning.
Consider the motives of those who are encouraging the formation of “human blockades” to stop the convoys moving. Traditionally the gutless USA likes nothing more than “human shields”. They even used one that included civilian building workers when they captured the airport in Grenada.
Putin isn’t going to flatten any whole cities, not until this turns nuclear anyway.
“Father Of All Bombs” = fuel-air explosive weapons.
Russian morale knocks USA morale into a cocked hat, pulls it out, and tramples all over it, any day of the week.
The idea that Russia is going to be “stopped”, have the Riot Act read to it, crawl back into a smaller shell, and watch a peaceful CIA-friendly coup take place to replace Putin, is fanciful.
““Father Of All Bombs” = fuel-air explosive weapons.”
Also known as ‘vacuum bombs’ or FOAB, terrifying whatever you call it.
I read in “Afghanistan papers” that when the USA dropped their MOABs on Afghanistan it made a big bang but did largely nothing to damage their intended strategic targets instead killed a number of innocents.
The article totally fails to address the underhand and devious intentions of US Foreign Policy and its determination to undermine and isolate Russia and ensure it never forms an alliance with Germany – a nightmare for the Americans since the Hitler-Stalin pact of 1939.
Ukraine is an expendable pawn for the US – a country to fight your wars in without being there just like Germany was during the 30 Years War.
Ukraine is part of the line of buffer states which keep Germany and Russia apart. Nordstream 2 horrified the US – they have now forced the compliant, gutless new German Red -Green Government to kill it at their own expense.
The Americans staged a coup in Ukraine in 2014 where Victoria Nuland ( currently Biden’s undersecretary of State!) played a major role on the Maiden square . The objective was to depose a Russia friendly President who saw Russia as ‘kin’ and wanted a friendly neighbour.
The deliberate chaos created encouraged Extremist Nationalists like the Azov Nazi brigade ( they use SS insignia!) to start a slow burn ‘ethnic cleansing” war against Russian minorities. Russians wee burned alive in Odessa by Ukrainian Fascists in a Trade Union building the Odessa area is predominantly ethnic Russian. Th footage of the event shown them being shot and beaten as they tried to escape.
This coup suited the US very well – Europe ( “Baroness” Ashton!) was irrelevant at the time (“F*ck the EU” – attributed to V. Nuland) but trotted along with the US Deep State. It also allowed the installing of a stooge President and a massive corrupt asset striping if Ukrainian resources by US ‘businessmen”. ( (See Hunter Biden’s history )
There has been a continuous war against the civilian population of Donbass since 2014 with over 10,000 civilians killed by Ukrainian shelling of villages . Putin actually now regrets not acting earlier – but he tried to implement the Minsk agreement in the face of Ukrainian and US derision.
The EU/ Nato plan to stuff Ukraine with weapons and mercenaries is now obviously a plan to force up civilian casualties and spread the conflict to Russia – Putin cannot allow this nor should we support it, as Liz Truss stupidly did the other day, by encouraging mercenaries to go and kill Russians and Ukrainian civilians. The US wants to see Syrian chaos spreading into Russia in the Ukraine.
The mealy mouthed approach of even those who ought to know better about the origins of this conflict shows he level of forced “Unispeak” and conformist censorship now operating in this country with its censored press and effectively One Party Government
We are in a very bad place thanks to Globalist Johnson’s determination to suppress and wreck our society to please his Globalist masters by all means available and align us with all the wrong people across the world. The US has never been our friend as for Biden, Trudeau, Ardern and Australia – where are they taking us?
Johnson’s friendship with Gates with his control of the WHO should be also be fully examined and explained but we have no free media .
Instead Johnson, while mounting an unprecedented hysterical lying propaganda campaign against Russia, will probably ban RT to keep the plebs in the dark about the real events in Ukraine
Good post, @David.
Hopefully NATO will become a big issue in the French presidential election.
Christiane Taubira dropped out a few minutes ago. This may be to Jean-Luc Mélenchon’s benefit. He’s in the péloton for sure.
Ahh…. the French election. Melenchon is a great performer but he has a ceiling to his vote even if he picks up straggling and struggling socialists from a party busted by the idiot Hollande.
The real tragedy is that the monster Macron will probably get to round 2 by default on just 24% of the round one vote.
With Zemmour on 14% Pelcluse on 13% and Le Pen on 15% (slight alterations all the time) there are several possibilities.
1.Zemmour drops out early failing to achieve enough political support and his supporters go to Le Pen if she manages to get over the line required – Le Pen and Macron then go though to round two again and Le Pen screws it up – yet again like last time – there are many who will just refuse to vote for her anyway .
2.Le Pen and Zemmour keep at it and both fail to get the political support required, so only Pelcluse gets MS Republican Party backing sufficient to enter round one and so she does thorough. and will be in round 2.
3.Will the right fall in behind her making a victory over Macron certain ? The French are too bloody minded to do that so Macron could easily win round two again – even if she wins she is just another Globalist EU Centre Right machine politician – so not much change likely.
4.Zemmour says correctly that the Right needs to unite behind one candidate to stand a chance of winning – but then we are talking about the French and herding cats comes to mind.
An “anyone but Macron “campaign ought to get a head of steam? Who knows?
I was starting to despair, I read all the comments so far and nobody mentioned…
so props for that David!
Same thing brought Russia into Syria.
For those who are under researched in this regard, read how Putin got into power after Yeltsin was set up by the US bankers and Clinton, read the Biden dossier detailing their involvement, you can start here: (yall have a lot to learn)
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/russia/the-real-backdrop-nobody-will-discuss/
Great piece. Short and to the point. Thank you.
Another lie falls apart:
EU Plans to Send Fighter Jets to Ukraine Fall Apart
In truth, such aircraft would have been shot down as they crossed the border anyway.
Let’s be clear here, arming Ukrainians to get more Russian soldiers killed is a significant escalation, even when it just involves portable AT and AA missiles that will mostly probably just be sold by the recipients.
The policy relies on blind faith that the Russians have no way to escalate in response. And that’s a foolish assumption, to say the least.
In the end, the Russians will always have escalation superiority over the Ukraine, because it matters to them, whereas it’s a luxury to NATO countries.
It was a total load of claptrap anyway, being imposed by the US abusive husband on the submissive subservient little wife.
‘Russians will always have escalation superiority over the Ukraine, because it matters to them, whereas it’s a luxury to NATO countries.’
Very, very true.
I stick by my position that I actively don’t care about any of these foreign Johnnies splitting each other’s ushankas.
I care about our borders, our laws, our liberties, and our economy.
For example, letting in another 100,000 dependents with nowhere to house them and paying for their consumption with yet more fiat borrowed from us and our children: that, I care about.
The more arriving to replace us, the better Johnson likes it!
This guy has been reporting on the region for years and has some very well made sceptical takes on the current broadcasts from The Ministry of Truth.
https://www.youtube.com/c/GrahamPhillipsUK
Minor point: the distinction between “mostly” and “predominantly” here is unusual. Never heard that usage before.
I thought exactly the same Star, but lacked your courage to post because I feared the intelligentsia on here would castigate my ignorance!
Resolving the crisis:
That might just about do it.
Does the world have the stomach for that?!
or
Point of order, since the US started this with Eastwards expansion, they need to be involved in the solution. Vlad isn’t going to waste his time “mediating” with the organ grinder’s monkeys.
Agree with you much more than with Toby.
The invasion is wrong, but so were the West’s prior actions and set precedents and the various discriminations of Russian minorities in many countries- the best and correct way for countries who have such minorities to stay safe is not NATO membership but to stop discriminating against these minorities – wasn’t THAT what ‘liberal democracies’ stood for?!
As such, we share a lot of responsibility for what is happening now and will happen in the future- in this regard, this is all most similar to 1914.
Too few people (in particular none of the Ukrainian flag wavers and displayers on social media) know these backgrounds, how thuggish and corrupt this Ukrainian government really is, and too few understand that US (and UK) (Mackinder&Brzeszinski defined and still followed) interests are very, very different from Eastern European, German and EUropean ones with regard to Russia in general.
Here are some of the latest more novel and interesting thoughts about what might still happen and about the unintended, negative consequences of our reactions sofar.
The only good thing I can see happening from all this is our ditching of net Zero and a refocussing on local fossil fuels and on nuclear energy, which the i****ic flag wavers and displayers will obviously not have grasped yet and also see quite differently.
https://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=26801
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/03/paul-craig-roberts/ukraine-update-3/
https://www.unz.com/pescobar/follow-the-money-how-russia-will-bypass-western-economic-warfare/
https://www.freitag.de/autoren/the-guardian/wladimir-putin-welches-ziel-verfolgt-russland
Well put Noah. There are too many armchair generals talking bollocks out there. I was out with some friends this morning for coffee and the rubbish they spouted was laughable. I gave up talking when I said the EU and NATO also have to take blame for what’s going on and I was regarded as a madman. As far as they are concerned Putin is 100% wrong and there’s no problem with the Ukraine joining the EU and NATO.
There is lots of history and bad blood between the Ukrainians and the Russians. At school I had a friend who’s father was Ukrainian and had been in the German Army during WW2 because he wanted to fight Russians. The east of the Ukraine is ethnically Russian and the Crimea is Russian (just look at the Crimean War 1853, it was the UK and France having a pop at the Russians within Russia). The Crimea was gifted to the Ukraine by Khruschiov as his mother was Ukrainian and as they were all under the USSR it was just a nice gesture.
“I was out with some friends this morning for coffee and the rubbish they spouted was laughable. I gave up talking when I said the EU and NATO also have to take blame for what’s going on and I was regarded as a madman. As far as they are concerned Putin is 100% wrong and there’s no problem with the Ukraine joining the EU and NATO.”
The situation is very similar to trying to raise sceptical points about the covid panic back in March 2020.
That’s what mass hysterical propaganda does to a society.
Add Brexit into the mix too!
Are your friends BBC believers by any chance?
Probably, all have been jabbed and one of them use to do daily LFTs. I’m unjabbed and have never done a LFT and have been called a flatearther by the daily LFTer.
I wish the earth was flat the LFTers would be easier to shove off it.
Very good piece thank you.
It’s a bit odd Mr Young has adopted a strawman. Any speculation on why he may have done so?
Young clearly associates reality-based arguments on Ukraine with lots of positions he has long since dismissed, and probably finds it extremely difficult to associate himself with.
For good reason, in some cases, but the associations he draws with the current situation are false. Much of this is anachronistic Cold War stuff, some is straightforwardly politically partisan, some is just the usual “real men stand up to bullies” stuff based on simple ignorance of the facts.
Yep, it is embarrassing to read.
Cuba? A sovereign state? You don’t get sovereign communist dictatorships.
As for Russian security, countries like Sweden and Finland require security from Russia.
Why?
When did Russia invade Norway and make a client state of Finland – as I recall that was Nazi Germany! Has the BBC altered the history to fit the “New Narrative”?
I seem to recall that Nazi Germany ( along with Finland, Romania,Hungary, and SS Units from Belgium, France, Spain and others invaded Russia in June 1941 as well – obviously that needs a ‘ BBC Fact Check’ correction as well.
The Germans went into the USSR as a pre-emptive strike. The Soviets had built up a massive force and were preparing to invade.
Do you know that is just complete nonsense! Wherever did you pick that up from?
The Russians were so surprised by the attack that they did not even fire back and were even told not to by Stalin who thought it was all a ‘mistake;’. This is all fully documented
Please do some reading before posting total nonsense..
Yes I saw on a great documentary that Stalin was so surprised by the attack he had a small mental breakdown and disappeared almost entirely from public life and into a recluse for a time after. Took an inspired general to win at Moscow and then again at Leningrad – before Stalin got too upset there might be a bigger dog so sent him to Stalingrad to win the unwinnable fight.
FFS. That comment has to be the most ignorant one I have ever seen on here. You beat EF and Concrete68 by a mile. Have you ever read ANY history?
Got put off galloway since lockdown, but on this subject he’s bang on the money!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ2glZtYEwk&t=612s
Putin isn’t protecting Russia and the Russians from western influence, something Russians might choose to welcome, if they had any choice in the matter.
Its Putin’s dictatorship that is threatened by Ukraine looking westward and maybe the Russian people joining them, rather than having to be grateful for some crumbs thrown from their great dictator.
Paragraphs 2 & 3. I made the same points yesterday. Putin is simply an old fashioned nationalist acting in ways to benefit his country and himsel, in a 19th century way, as he sees fit.
Para 3 talks, as usual throughout The West, when paying attention, as though Iraq and Kuwait are/were alien locations totally unconnected, without historic connection with Russia/Ukraine similarly disconnected when in fact under the Ottomans Kuwait was an integral part (Province ?) of what became post WW1 Iraq.
Kuwait was bought out of Iraq by Big Oil. Details escape me for the moment but the above is not ‘rubbisg’.
Russia grew out of Kiev,11th-15th centuries, itself the capital of a single Scandinavian aristocratic entiry. Only later did they separate as the Russian elite fended off the Mongols, under a dozen or more separate bodies but never a single entity, while Kiev paid attention to Byzabtium and the eastern West. Hence the Russian Orthodox Church and Holy Russia.
Short term memory loss getting the better of me, bye for now.
I don’t claim to be an expert but from what little I’ve researched it appears that this conflict between Russia and Ukraine has been on the cards for quite some time now.
Take this one example of many ongoing problems in the Ukraine between pro-Russia demonstrators and Ukrainian rightists going back to 2014 :
Ukrainian rightists burn alive 39 at Odessa union building.
Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building. On their way to attacking the union hall, which was occupied by anti-Kiev government demonstrators fearing for their lives, the rightists recruited members of a Ukrainian football club, the Chernomorets, according to numerous reports in the European press and on line. Women and children were reported to be among those burned alive after initial rounds of shots and Molotov cocktails were thrown into the building by the right wingers.
https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/ukrainian-rightists-burn-alive-39-at-odessa-union-building/
Now that’s a more sceptical analysis! I hope Young has read/reads this, he might learn something about what a sceptical analysis actually entails.
I am very saddened to see my previously fellow Sceptics regarding covid displaying their views now! And I don’t feel in line with many of you anymore. Perhaps I am biased (I am Lithuanian and have lived in the UK for more than half my life so i can see both sides), but all your talk shows clearly none of you understand what it’s like to actually live next door to major power. Small countries as we are we just want to live in peace in our own land, unoccupied, free. We Lithuanians as many other smaller nations along the boundaries of Russia never trust it in regard to their expansion ambitions. History shows we always end up parcelled off to suit the bigger countries games and their outcomes. Army running one way or the other, whatever colour, leaving nothing, but destruction. We recover somewhat and try to go on, but for how much longer before we come a full circle? Just because there are some proportion of Russian speaking minorities in one country, it does not mean the land should be parcelled of. There are Russian speaking minorities in every ex soviet union country. This does not justify an invasion. By that logic you could actually justify invading certain parts of London!
It’s good to hear a comment from someone with skin in the game.
Not in this kind of situation. It’s good to get the view of someone directly affected, or with connections to those directly affected, when that view helps to clarify issues that are being ignored in the mainstream coverage.
Otherwise all it does is ramp up the emotion pushing the mainstream narrative.
To apply the (very apt, imo) covid panic parallel, it was useful in mid-2020 to hear from those negatively affected by lockdown because those effects were being actively suppressed and denied in the mainstream. Whereas pushing personal accounts of those who had suffered from covid effects was merely pushing the lies and the fear harder.
In this case, of course, Kristian’s personal involvement is peripheral rather than direct. However, the above point still applies, just less strongly.
Her comment makes some valid points (albeit I disagree with them) about the situation and has value for that, not for her personal position. All that does is makes her biased. Her points are no less and no more true because of her personal loyalties.
It’s not as though we are currently lacking in voices pushing the “must defeat Russia now or other places will get invaded” trope.
My scepticism of the situation comes from the completely one sided reporting, shut down of discussion, complete simplification of an issue, fake news of all colours being pushed on social media. Not because I am happy there is a war.
I am taking the main narrative coverage with a pinch of salt too, but the facts can’t be denied – a war is going on, putin has become too aggressive, people are suffering. In war the first casualty is truth and all that and I can see both sides giving all their best- on the streets and on-line. And who knows what else is going on behind the scenes… P.s. I grew up not trusting the main soviet narrative especially during our history lessons. That’s why it was easy and almost natural for me not to trust the covid narrative.
Yes I don’t really know what to make of the whole situation on the ground – I have just taken a position that I will challenge what I am told, try to verify what I can. One thing I do fail to see is any constructive resolutions in the MSM. Which leads me to wonder why?
Hi Kristina, Lithuania has implemented vaccine passes for everyone in a highly discriminatory way for the unvaxxed, has this ended? I can sympathise with your historic concerns about the USSR, but the modern Russia under Putin (not the USSR) did attempt to join the other European nations as an equal partner, and was rebuffed.
It seems to me that you could be more at risk now from the totalitarianism of the western powers.
From my own countries experience we’d rather be under western powers and their kind of totaliarism than Russian concoction of ideals any time of the day! There are various reasons for being or not a part of EU, euro zone and Nato. But overall its too awful to be occupied for decades by Russia. Lesser of two evils, I suppose. And that is the choice, sadly.
I accept your concerns. But I did try to distinguish between Russia and the USSR. Putin himself is bitter about the legacy of the USSR. I believe the Russian government that followed the collapse of the USSR wanted a better and more balanced relationship with other european countries, one without the legacy and threats of the Cold War, which were terrifying for all involved. This was refused by the US and a great opportunity thrown away.
i have seen frightening changes since 2000 in Britain, my country of origin and one whose culture I am equipped to assess – all I can say is that I fear we are degenerating into the kind of totalitarianism you have reason to remember.
We always assumed the right of free speech when I was growing up, and debates were informed and balanced.
Where has the hate and violence come from? And the unprecedented censorship – unheard of in the West?
It has come from the globalist neoconservatives, who are US based. The current political culture in the UK fills me with shame and horror. The lies are ubiquitous and all pervading. This is a dangerous and sickening culture to live within and one I am deeply ashamed of.
The influence of the US on Britain has led to a degeneration of our own culture. Just because the US is not Russia does not mean that the same dangers do not loom now. Things have changed.
I am concerned that you are not as aware as I am of the dangerous path the West has followed since the collapse of the USSR and the unchallenged ascendancy of the US. Absolute power corrupts.
And I should add, the endless wars of aggression.
The countries attacked, fear and hate the US, though to my shame, their suffering hardly registers with the comfortable Western middle classes.
I believe we are in for a nasty awakening, and in many ways it will be a just retribution
Yes- the deliberate destruction of Iraq, Syria and Libya the creation of ISIL and all the deaths and wanton destruction of economies, ancient cities and cultures which followed was the direct consequence of US policy.
These countries are still in ruins as a result. The US would now lie to see that in the Ukraine and Russia and seems to be working to that end..
The world continues to pay a very high price for US mono-polar world “Exceptionalism”
I have Syrian friends and they are very aware of the destruction to their historic churches and other sites.
I also grew up in that area, and an fully aware of the depth of history and culture there and loathe the demonisation of the complex cultures of the middle east, and that includes the Muslim cultures, too.
The ancient and complex cultural history of that area way outranks the shallowness, intolerance, and ignorance of the US culture.
And how did Assad act to protect these “historic….sites”?
Nothing do with the Iranians and their “connections”…or the corrupt Saudis?
No it’s all the fault of the US….specious, ignorant, biased rubbish.
Please do an audit of the genocide inflicted by Middle Eastern despots on their own populations and then study who supplied the arms ( in the main) and who continues to do so. As with all brainwashed lovers of the Russian Bear please emigrate and live there – they have a bottomless demand for useful idiots.
The one thing ruthless people like Putin and his acolytes love is the blind admiration of ignorant people like you; please tell me just one example of where NATO forces have actually pulled the trigger on weapons aimed at and landing in Russian sovereign territory; then tell me who is firing at and murdering Ukrainian civilians, because they – Russia – say they are threatened by the aforesaid “NATO aggressive” force evident on Russian territory.
You can spout all you like about corrupt “US and Western” governments, but I don’t see them using chemical and bio weapons, I don’t see them carting people speaking “undemocratically” off to gulags and I don’t see them seeking re-election every 4 years for so .
Not a situation of comparing two entities who have acted with the highest standards of morality and humanity for certain; but if you are trying to equate Putin’s Russia with the “West”…. words fail me.
Excellent piece!
Who wields power in Mother Russia Kate?
That’s right…….Putin. Now, he’s not “corrupt” from your point of view, is he? Elected in free and fair elections by a majority of those who voted..not.
Well said Kate!
Thank you for bringing your experience here. However, I think anyone who rationally thinks through this situation can understand that Russia has been forced into this action by…
There is no way Russia could allow these things to continue. And I am deliberately using the word “Russia” rather than “Putin”, because this is in Russia’s interest. It was all pathetically predictable.
The real failure here is with the Ukrainian government not predicting the outcome of their actions, and a failure of Western powers to use diplomacy to fix the obvious problems (in fact deliberately exacerbating them). They have failed the Ukrainian people, and allowed them to become pawns in a proxy war. To make things worse they are now running operation “Human Shield”, something that disgusts me more than anything else in this situation.
The “Ukrainian Government” are just stooges of the CIA – they are acting under orders. I suspect Nuland is in charge calling the shots – (literally) jusy like on the Maidan in 2014.
Lithuania currently has no land border with the Russian Federation except for the northern half of East Prussia now the Russian Kaliningrad Oblast
Lithuania has imposed draconian and intimidating anti-Human Rights Covid restrictions and Vax laws on the population, following the West – not Russian pressure
Ukrainian extreme Nationalists, carrying flags with a Waffen SS Division runic emblem have been shelling and killing ethnic Russian civilians in their homes in Donbass villages since 2014 an estimated 14,000 have died – they have refused to negotiate wanting instead to drive the Russians out- if that does not justify an invasion to bring an end this state of affairs – what does ?
Cry me a river.
Britain has a 500 year history of being a small Country being constantly threatened – four attempted invasions – by Imperial France, Imperial Spain and Imperial then Nazi Germany, then the Imperial EU which when we tried to leave that cesspool, treated us like we were their indentured servants and because we have a traitorous, treacherous political class have partitioned the United Kingdom keeping part of it in the maw of the EU Empire.
You think we British trust the disingenuous, duplicitous, corrupt Countries of Continental Europe?
Britain certainly does not have years of history of being a small country constantly being threatened! It had numerous conflicts hence continuous intermarriage by the Royal rulers with continental royals etc in the hope to avoid/pacify those threats or resolve those conflicts. I particularly refer to the Tudor era.
This is correct, Britain is the one European country that has never been invaded, not at least since 1066!
If you go to Europe you become very aware of how different is was for them, the streets in French cities have the date of their liberation on them. Parts of the netherlands were on the invasion corridor, and there are no old buildings left.
I often think the British have no conception of what it must be like to be invaded and occupied, and live in serene ignorance and complacency.
You are condemned out of your own mouth – Now people will know you speak the unadulterated bollox of the indoctrinated – you don’t even know the history of this country!!!!!!!
Been to Coventry recently? Seen any pictures of pre war Liverpool or Southampton – try and visit this buildings today.
What a fool you are.
Britain has a history of being the consistently most powerful European great power and used to rule most of the world, something British prime ministers mainly ceased to do because paying and arming local thugs so that resource extractions can proceed as usual was conjectured to be much cheaper.
Having handed out Kalashnikovs to anyone who wanted one regardless of the outcome of this adventure we can be certain that no responsible body will collect them in again. They’ll support criminal gangs in Ukraine & seep out across the rest of Europe for years to come. It all bodes ill.
It’s just the US repeating their great “successes” in Libya and Syria – all over again !
A couple of things I’ve learned the past two years: (1) 99.9% of people believe in germ theory (2) 99.999% of people believe Putin Bad Man.
I lie somewhere outside the Venn diagram I am very rare. Although can’t say I don’t disbelieve Germ Theory – I don’t know enough either way to come to any conclusions. But then that makes me an even rarer beast – someone who is ok not having a hard black and white position on something! Someone hunt me for my ivory!
The question is: Putin Bad Man compared to whom? Trudeau, Macron, BoJo, Brandon… well there’s a long list.
The point is, given the last 21 months nothing Putin is doing is any different to what ‘leaders’ in the ‘free’ World have done. Putin doing it to citizens in another Country not his own, I would say is moot. It’s the ‘what’ is being done, not the ‘to whom’ it’s being done that matters.
Well done for a very much more convincing peice than Young’s. I’d go a step further though to the extent that I actively distrust the reporting and most definitely it’s interpretation.
I said in reply yesterday that we’re hearing lots of “reports coming in of..” all sorts of things, but precious little evidence of any of it. Yes we’ve seen a few pictures of buildings being hit, but nothing to match the “missiles raining down”, “heavy fighting” framing.
I am absolutely certain that our media is capable of holding the line on such things – certain that the truth will not ‘out’, because they’ve got plenty of previous.
Of particular relevance here is the acceptance throughout the Establishment of May and Johnson’s preposterous, self-contradictory Skripal story – no one asked the most basic of questions as the story got more and more ludicrous. if you accept the Putin-did-it narrative without question, then you’re no sceptic at all.
Or the scandal at the OPCW where multiple whistleblowers have come forwad with documents proving a Syrian chemical weapons attack was staged. This has either been ignored or misrepresented completely.
I am not sure on the Skripal poisonings, I don’t really get it – if there was a man and daughter and some other non-playable characters who get ill randomly and severely with recognised and verified symptoms – something happened. Or did it? Was it all staged? What is the narrative from the west and what is the narrative from the east? Is it essentially, they did it our word against them?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And you don’t get much more extraordinary than fantasising about the ruler of a major power sending agents across the world to murder an enemy with a fantastically dangerous, exotic poisonous material, instead of just paying someone to shoot the guy, and doing it just round the corner from Porton Down!
I mean, there were much easier ways to “send a message” if it were Putin doing so, and many far easier and less costly way of murdering someone if that was the objective.
It’s self-evidently nonsensical.
On the other hand, we have clear evidence in the Russiagate crime that there are hugely powerful elements in our intel services and the US sphere deep state that are heavily invested in demonising Russia and Putin, and willing to devote huge covert resources to doing so. Using a fantastically poisonous material makes no sense whatsoever as an assassination tool, but it’s perfect for whipping up horror and outrage.
It’s pretty clear where our main hypothesis should stand…
Craig Murray did an excellent job of demolishing the Skripal narrative. And the comments sections were great. There are many posts on this subject on the website, not just the one I have linked to.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/04/pure-ten-points-i-just-cant-believe-about-the-official-skripal-narrative/
Once you looked into it the lies from the UK government were hilarious, I was astounded that people swallowed them.
I think that the UK security agencies were aware, too late that Sergei Skripal was planning to sell his knowledge of the Trump dossier, fabricated by the UK back to Russia (or maybe a third party) and botched the attempt to silence him. Sergei acted as a double agent.
I used to travel through Salisbury regularly and know the area where the “poisonings ” took place, the area is surrounded by water and ducks, there is no way you could spray novichok there and not have ducks and fish floating upside down in the river for weeks!
Yes, that’s true. His work and the discussions it elicited were excellent on this. I’m not aligned with Murray in many areas, but on this I agree he did very good work.
And made some powerful enemies.
Come to think of it the ridiculous protective gear in Salisbury now seems like a precursor to the ludicrous coronavirus PPE and masking. In many ways the Skripal affair was a trial run for many elements of coronavirus – the outrageous and incredible lies, the theatrics, the demonisation of Putin…if you followed the Skripals, you end up with deja vue..
When you put it like that kind of explains why a drama-docu was made and published on Netflix recently about it.
You have won this year’s “Ms Gullible” star prize; please submit yourself to Porton Down for a dose of, eg, …..Botulinus – that’s just as harmless as Novichok, you will be fine and be able to walk out of there….
Cool thanks for that – I was fairly young at the time and didn’t really care to be honest.
Yes – the old Soviet Union had the poisoned umbrella spike ferrule method – a quick poke in the bum on a crowded train and death followed within minutes!
I seem to remember it happened to a Romanian dissident in the street.
On the Salisbury incident – was it not said to be a rogue Russian Secret Service group, seeking revenge on a former colleague who had betrayed them? The unfortunate single fatality was caused when the eye-catching scent bottle containing residue of the poison was casually thrown into a bin by the perpetrators and retrieved by an innocent passer-by.
Surely you’re not implying that MSM tell porkies now and then… Worth 8 mins of your time.
https://brandnewtube.com/v/jpVzdV
Good one. Great as my respect for Mr.Young is, sometimes he is just plain wrong, imho.
Matt Le Tissier
Anyone else find it strange that MPs are championing the anti war protesters in Russia while simultaneously voting in favour of a bill here that will stop you from protesting 12:47 PM · Mar 2, 2022·Twitter for iPad
https://twitter.com/mattletiss7/status/1499003401883066373
No.
With our current herd of MPs, not at all strange.
Toby doesn’t understand what sceptical means. It is not about disagreeing or being right, it is about challenging and testing claims and assertion whether in science or politics.
The question a sceptic must always ask the proposer is, how can I falsify that? If a proposition cannot be falsified, that is because it cannot be proven. Then the proposition fails.
‘Toby says he supported the war in Iraq, even though that involved a leader (whom some people consider a kind of strongman) using “his country’s superior military force” to invade and occupy “an independent sovereign state”.’
So not a matter of principle just a matter of whether Toby agrees with it.
Toby knows, but also knows he can’t say – ‘cos the DS would speedily go the way of the many other deplatformed sources of information; never mind Covid, this could be spun as ‘security risk’ through to ‘treason’ – Tucker Carlson in the US accused of just that, days ago
We’re all here, I’m drinking from my DS mug (bit scruffy now) and contemplating the proper Evil that abounds in the world outside, as we all are.
Leave the guy alone, do the math (silently) and be grateful he’s prepared to eat the Cognitive Dissonance involved in keeping DS going.
you mis-spelled “misinformation”
An alternative view to the conflict in the Ukraine and the hypocrisy of western governments – this conflict has been brewing for years – worth a 5min watch …
https://www.bitchute.com/video/ZeW8dcVFw7Og/
For starters I would just like to say this, so that it’s clear: I in no way condone Putin’s actions and I believe there was absolutely no cause for war. Understanding does not mean agreement.
When looking at the narrative floating around, some things make no sense to me. Why were Biden and Kamala so desperate about Ukraine being invaded? The US is invaded by who even knows how many migrants every day, and they don’t seem to care. They even condone it. And then when Russia did invade, the left in the US was very much in favour of sending troops to Ukraine and arming Ukrainians, but they are very much against securing their own border and allowing their fellow citizens to carry self defence. Very strange…
Then you had the EU cutting Russia from SWIFT. Ursula von der Leyen spoke very strongly about this. George Soros was condemning Russia as well. Social media is trying to portray Zelenskyy as some sort of progressive hero. It’s all very, very strange.
Russian media is blocked. RT are pariahs. And all we’re told is that Putin had a hissy fit and decided to attack Ukraine. It just doesn’t make much sense. If that’s the case, why would Biden and Kamala run around like their hair is on fire for weeks before anything happened?
I’ll tell you what makes sense to me. From what I heard, Putin is worried that Ukraine, along with the Russian people living there, are going to fall into the hands of the EU. And this is certainly true, as Ukraine wants to join the EU and NATO. What if the very charismatic Zelenskyy is a globalist puppet? It’s not out of the realm of possibility. Putin may have tried to organize a referendum in Ukraine in order to separate the Eastern side of the country and merge it into Russia. As far as I know, this referendum never happened, and I think the local population might be all for it (don’t quote me on this). So it may be that Putin has tried to diplomatically and peacefully “save” (in his eyes, at least) Ukraine from the globalists. He is probably worried about the culture of Ukraine being destroyed and the country being used to squeeze Russia further. I think the global cabal is upset that Russia isn’t exactly playing ball with their plans.
So this may be because Putin sees a threat in being squeezed in a tight spot, made to bow down to the will of the Davos elite.
Again, this does not justify open war, in my opinion. Even if all of this is true, all the thousands upon thousands of dead had no part in this. They were innocent of it, and yet they were the ones to pay the cost. But this certainly makes way more sense to me than the current narrative being spread around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo
Putin’s Warning: FULL SPEECH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6YeIM85SJg&ab_channel=islandonlinenews
Vladimir Putin – “Empire of Lies” Speech – Full – February 24, 2022
These are both vital speeches by Putin to explain how threatened Russia has been by the continued expansion of NATO.
Worth listening in full.
Excellent analysis. Good to see more balanced perspectives emerging despite the media storm aimed at squashing dissent.
The predominance of the Cheney “you are either with us or against us” doctrine is evident in the fact that anyone who offers a more thoughful, nuanced interpretation of events, feels the need to say something like “I disapprove/don’t like Putin/the invasion, but…”.
This situation is no accident, but part of a crafted narrative that aims to put dissenters on the back foot. Before we even say anything, we are being defensive!
The point being that dissent is no longer tolerated (Canadian Truckers anyone?). The assorted US/Western oligarchs wanted the present outcome. For the military industrial complex, the energy industry and the finance/insurance sector their preferred outcome has prevailed.
For the US government it should be remembered that warfare is a form of money laundering by writing off old weapons stocks (sending them to Ukraine). Getting oil up over $100 a barrel (and climbing) will both help rejuvenate the fracking and tar sands and also deal with inflation.
… and we don’t need to bother ourselves with silly little details like corruption and pollution closer to home.
… and we certainly don’t want to wonder how come the existential threat of covid seems to have disappeared almost overnight.
In 1978, I had the pleasure of visiting Yalta in the Crimea. It was a beautiful place. I’d like to return – permanently.
What’s keeping you?
“Apple” has withdrawn the RT ap – getting us used to total internet censorship down the line when the “On Line Harms Bill” kicks in and the Great Reset really gets going!
Let’s face it everything on-line can suerly be accused of causing ‘harm’ to someone now?
The internet needs to be reclaimed from the 3 or 4 people who control it. That said, I’m sure if I was adept enough I could create an operating system and too control what was on it.
Operating system.. is that where you think internet content is controlled?????
An interesting analysis of what’s really going on in the Ukraine. All is not what it seems! Worth watching all the way to the end.
The Ukraine Invasion Situation is Not Black and White
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyVp4oQvucs
Talk Radio interview 28th Feb 2022
Peter Hitchens: “We’ve used Ukraine as a battering ram against Russia”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvmddazUW3I
And Russia as a distraction from our really dangerous foe, the CCP.
Let’s go full sceptic, shall we?
This strikes me as a a good example of what I’d call the anti-anti-Putin lunacy.
If you are so totally invested in your hatred/opposition to the current liberal/democratic establishment – then it stands to reason that you’d fall over backwards in your efforts to lick the asses of whoever challenges them.
See Tucker Carlson, et al.
Is the current liberal/democratic establishment perfect? Of course not. But it’s one the hallmarks of that liberal/democratic establishment that we all can sit around and criticise them, point out their flaws and foibles.
But good luck to you doing the same thing in Putin’s Russia.
If you had written that 20 years ago I would have agreed with you.
Now, not so much.
I sort of have an image of Russia/China as 1984 and Five Eyes/EU as Brave New World, both with overlaps.
Quite why you should use Tucker as a scapegoat in this analysis beats me.
Why Tucker Carlson (and Donald Trump) continue to use Putin’s Russia as an example of something to be admired and/or emulated is something that totally confounds me.
Maybe you can explain?
Putin doesn’t appear to want to replace Russians with people from the Third World and opposes the homo/tranny evil.
Both of those strike me as admirable.
I cannot recall one single example of Tucker Carlson admiring Putin or Russia. What he continues to do very well is remain objective in the face of hypocrisy.
Trump is quite often all over the place, he should stand down and be big enough to support De Santis as nominee, which of course will not happen.
“the current liberal/democratic establishment”
You appear not to have been paying attention over the last couple of years
“we all can sit around and criticise them, point out their flaws and foibles.”
Not for much longer in the UK.
That you seem to think it’s a matter purely of which side you see as less ugly in its philosophy and governance rather makes the point that you are not paying attention to the realities of what has been going on in Ukraine, and indeed in US foreign policy generally.
It’s been pretty obvious from your comments here that you have completely misunderstood some core aspects of the recent history in and around the Ukraine. Does this not concern you in the slightest? Do you have no inclination to rethink and research?
Or is it just a simple “I like my side better so I’m sticking with it however much I’ve been lied to”?
Your choice, in the end.
Regardless of geopolitical realities – is the only way to stop a war is to redraw the map? Because historically that often seems to be the usual outcome (plus death and destruction in the lead up to an ‘agreement’). Are we perhaps a tiny bit better that that by now? If not, why not? If I am a sceptic, I choose to be a sceptic of taking this route.
The Russians tried everything reasonable, imo, short of this, and were rebuffed. The perfectly reasonable idea of neutralising the Ukraine was dismissed as “unacceptable”, and the Minsk Accords were ignored.
Tbh, the only reason I didn’t expect the Russians to attack was because I saw no way the costs cannot exceed the benefits for them, but clearly they have a different calculation, on one or both of those, versus the costs of doing nothing and letting the ongoing de facto NATO-isation of the Ukraine proceed further unchecked.
But make no mistake, the fault here lies with the US and with the Ukrainian ultras going for maximalist goals because they think they have the backing of the world’s preeminent superpower, and can’t lose. Exactly as predicted, and as happened rather more quickly with the pathetic Georgian Saakashvili regime.
They were repeatedly warned that their course of action would result in confrontation and war, and they chose to ignore those warnings, or they saw war as the beneficial outcome for their interests. We shall see.
I blasted Toby for his article the other day, so in the interests of fairness, I commend him for also publishing a skeptic view.
In October 2021, the Ukrainian government said:
‘The naval bases in Ochakov and Berdyansk are planned as modern infrastructure facilities capable of receiving ships of all types, equipped according to NATO standards and built with the money of the alliance countries,’ and that ‘In three years we will be able to strike at Russian ships in the Black Sea with our mosquito fleet. And if we combine with Georgia and Turkey, the Russian Federation will be blocked,’ Ukrainian military experts have boasted.
What exactly is the Russian government supposed to think when Ukraine says such things matter of factly, and how exactly are the Russians supposed to act?
I’m sure there’s many more such kinds of things that I’m not aware of and quite likely there is a lot more that none of us are aware of.
Another issue that’s getting some attention in Russian circles is the fact that the Russian Central Bank persistently works against Russia’s interests, and follows polices that benefit the IMF and Washington instead.
Notice how lockstep and extreme the reaction is from many countries, particularly the West? That certainly suggests strongly to me which side is working for Klaus Schwab and his puppetmasters.
RT has just been shut down on UK television ‘not currently available’- Johnson falls into line with the Globalist Cabal Free Speech haters so nothing can interfere with or challenge their lies.!
Presumably his stooges on Ofocm have done his bidding -and Starmer will surely be getting his rewards from the Trilateral Commission for his tireless efforts to shut down the Channel
We are now clearly entering very dark times in this country – not even in the war against Hitler would Churchill allow all German a radio reports to be censored – the people are now to be subjected to nothing but hysterical and lying propaganda 24/7 with no alternative allowed .
This is outrageous and yet our Sovereign Parliament and our Courts are all silent!
We are no longer a country with a free media let alone a ‘democrcay’.
It doesn’t matter which side you take in Ukraine, Russia has already seized the areas it needed to seize, now it is merely in the business of wrecking the rest. So you can argue about good versus evil but it makes no odds whatsoever which side you choose, it’s already over.An intact Ukraine can no longer exist and certainly cannot join NATO or the EU, Putin has taken the option away by seizing much of east Ukraine.Now get back to futile arguments.
East Ukraine happens to be inhabited by Russians who do not want to be ruled by people in Kiev, including openly declared Nazis, who wish to ethnically cleanse them from their homes and have been shelling them for years – don’t you think they might just have a point?
Ukraine has never in its history been a unitary, homogeneous state – the Extremist Nationalists want to make it so by forced “ethnic cleansing” . Remember Bosnia?
Please. Not this shit again. The best way to deal with Russian military aggression is to give the Russians what they probably want and if that means carving up sovereign states to – once again – ethnically cleanse the region, why would we care?
Methinks US and US-backed entities have done enough ethnic cleansing in Europe already and should please out-act this apparently fundamental desire of theirs closer to home, eg, by creating segregrated states for US-whites and US-blacks. Ups. That’s wasn’t supposed to be fashionable in the USA anymore, was it?
And also please, spare me the
Can Cuba host Russian missile sites if it wants? After all, Cuba is an independent sovereign state. Basically everyone recognises that, no, Cuba cannot do this.
Basically everybody recognizes that this would be a casus belli for the USA and that the USA has the necessary power to enforce this. And that’s all.
The Russians have made it abundantly clear in the Ukraine over the past 25 years that they were willing to accept the Ukraine keeping its existing borders, provided they had certain perfectly reasonable guarantees about neutrality and not actively repressing Russian speakers. Those guarantees were repeatedly repudiated and in fact the regime in the Ukraine aggressively went ahead with discriminatory measures against Russian speakers as well as de facto NATO-isation.
That, including an outright coup against the elected government, triggered the Russian response in 2014, and did so again this year.
Address that reality if you want to have any relevance. Otherwise you’re just another sucker for the mainstream propaganda.
“Basically everybody recognizes that this would be a casus belli for the USA and that the USA has the necessary power to enforce this. And that’s all.”
Indeed. And the same applies for Russia.
It will not be long before the US is making exactly that argument about Chinese bases in the western hemisphere, and the population in the US sphere will be portentously declaring that “the US must defend its legitimate interests”, led by the same blowhards currently lecturing us on our “duty” to “stand up for the rules based global order” against “19th century attitudes”.
I wasn’t making a statement about Ukrainian domestic politics but about the appeasement strategy Carl was arguing for. The 1938-parallell, ie, Another issue in a far away country we know little of!, came to my mind a little later. Oh well, just give it to them! didn’t work out so well at that time. Also, that’s really not anyone’s business but of Ukraine itself. The government & people there seem to want to fight because they believe they can win. Which should settle this issue for now.
On a more general note, I’m tired of people from the most ethnically mixed country on the earth moving people in Europe around as if they were just cattle to create ethnically homogenous (toy) states according to their present fever dreams and tearing up whatever historically grown structures happened to be in place before that time. If this is such a great idea, dear Americans, decolonize and ethnically cleanse yourself first.
Lastly, as German, I’m principally sympathetic to giving the Russians a bloody nose whenever the opportunity should arise, but that’s a rather theoretical sympathy and I’m certainly not a party in this conflict.
I’m specifically not making any moral arguments.
As I’ve repeatedly observed here, anyone making the ridiculous 1930s/Hitler/appeasement false parallel is either lying or too ignorant or stupid to understand the situation. I know you aren’t stupid. The ideas that Russia is anything like 1930s Germany. or that Putin is anything like Hitler, or that the strategic situation today in the nuclear peace is anything comparable to the 1930s are all absurd.
The problem with that one is that it basically allows the US to just push and push, and then if anyone resists, claim that it’s impossible to compromise with them because that would be “appeasement”.
As we see in this case.
“I’m specifically not making any moral arguments.”
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks”
If you really want to view the situation without moral overlay, which would be the realist approach, then you end up where Prof Mearsheimer does – with a clear assessment that the solution is to stop pushing at the Russians and let them secure their strategic hinterland, in the interests of general security.
I didn’t make any of the X is like Y claims you listed here. Russia is the attacker here. Both personal experience (of limited applicability) and historical parallells suggest that accept his demands is not a wise course when dealing with an attacker, as this will encourage him to employ the same method again in future. Putin also already did that, he just hasn’t picked such a large target so far.
The other parallell is some conference of powerful states deciding the fate of a (at least perceived to be) less powerful country: Let’s carve it up, those ‘krainians (WTF? Where on earth is the place?) can’t do anything about it, anyway, while claiming this would somehow be the moral thing to do. It isn’t.
I don’t think anyone’s security is increased by increasing Russian dominance in eastern Europe and for a variety of reasons, some of them personal, I’d very much prefer it to be decreased. Not necessarily decreased so that of the USA can increase instead, but let’s deal with one issue at a time.
“Russia is the attacker here.”
No, that’s just obviously incorrect, except in the most limited of senses. In all the important ones, Russia is on the strategic defensive here, as you’d expect from a state that is far, far weaker, objectively measured, in almost every conceivable measure, than the US.
As for the rest, there’s no need for any solution beyond the US getting the f*** out of the Ukraine and of Europe and devoting its energies to the most sensible course of addressing the rise of China, which unlike Russia is actually a peer competitor.
Let Russia sort out the Ukraine on whatever terms it sees fit.
“Russia is the attacker here.”
No, that’s just obviously incorrect, except in the most limited of senses.
It’s true in the only sense I’m using this term, which is militarily: Russia started an offensive into Ukraine, hence, Russia is the attacker. Further, Russia has been on a strategic offensive, subsequently increasing what it aimed for, since Putin started governing there. I don’t understand why you keep mentioning the USA which is not a party in this conflict (so far).
I’m generally very much in favour of ending US hegemony in Europe, but certainly not just to be replaced with with renewed Russian hegemony. And presently, that’s the only other option as most of Europe outside of the Russian sphere of influence is about in the same state as the member of the former Delian league were during the days of the empire of Athens: Dependent, mostly ‘mini’ states (the so-called Baltic states could really be called classic city states) who had democracies, albeit carefully calibrated to render them mostly incapable of action, force-exported to them (the Athenians were also great spreaders of this kind of democracy) who essentially pay tribute in return for military protection.
As to China being a peer competitor to the USA, this seems to be a case of map-ism to me (Wow! This looks really big on a map!). The Chinese government already controls as much of the world as it can militarily occupy, China is still using the same system of government by professional functionaries it has been using for the last few thousand years (rebranded as CCP) and for as long as no Chinese person must cross the border except in a hazmat suit (to fight Sars-CoV2), it’s extremely unlikely that it’ll be anything but the world’s laughing stock. I mean, Xi is certainly not going to start a war with all these infected foreigners he’s so afraid of.
The Chinese are good at propaganda targetted at (fearful) imbeciles (like the one Susan Michie) and at splashing money around in order to buy democrats (or gangsters aka union leaders). And that’s about it.
RT it seems has just been shut down on UK television ‘not currently available’- Johnson falls into line with the Globalist Free Speech haters and fake “Fact Checkers” ( N. Clegg!) so nothing can interfere with or challenge their lies.!
Presumably Ofcom have done his bidding -and Starmer will surely be getting his rewards from the Trilateral Commission for his tireless efforts to shut down the Channel
If this is confirmed, we are now clearly entering very dark times in this country – not even in the war against Hitler would Churchill allow all German radio to be censored – the people are now to be subjected to nothing but hysterical distorting and lying propaganda 24/7 with no alternative view allowed .
So with objective or alternative news source on the conflict we can make no comparative analysis of different reports – th every basis of free journalism, This is clearly outrageous and yet our Sovereign Parliament and our Courts are all totally silent!
This country is not at war with either side in this conflict it merely disapproves of one side’s actions taken for what it perceives as its own national interests and yet we are not allowed to make up our own minds up about its validity or progress.
This is just another step in the Globalist Great Reset objectives of destroying all out freedoms. Closing down the free media and controlling the propaganda ‘message’ is the action of every vicious, corrupt dictatorship in history.
So – to take stock-we are no longer a country with a free media let alone a ‘democracy’….or even a ‘free’ people as we are now simply infantalised as plebs capable of no judgement or independent thought and all this their “scamdemic” emergency has made possible.
They also want to abolish some jury trials as well – we are clearly not fit to judge our peers or our betters!
Latest: ‘Apple’ has withdrawn the RT ap.
Finally just to note: Johnson’s pose as a ‘Free Speech’ loving journalist is now exposed as just yet another of his fraudulent personas, just like his sham Churchill!
These two sites are rather slow to load but appear to provide reasonably well informed updates and commentary on the Ukraine situation from what seems to be a fairly “detached” point of view free from Western propaganda:
https://www.strategic-culture.org/
https://thesaker.is/
And both RT and Sputnik sites are still sporadically available to read, even if their tv channels are now blocked.
I hope that even if the censorship gets worse there will still be ways round it for the persistent searcher after truth!
This is the predicted war of mutual destruction, designed to destroy the current world order and usher in the New World Order.
How convenient for them to have already rolled out the social credit system.
Not impossible.
Appeasement.
Well done Noah.
Proper balance with no taking of Putin’s side but highlighting its not a binary situation & that the there has been prolonged western interference in Ukraines affairs for a long time now that has resulted in what we now see. This is Russias Monroe Doctrine!!
“A better strategy, arguably, would be something along these lines: agree to recognise Crimea and the two breakaway regions in the East; and rule out NATO membership for Ukraine. In exchange, Russia must immediately withdraw its forces, and help pay to rebuild the country.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCvujz1KnGc
Kharkiv has the Ukraine’s biggest Russian population. After this they may not want to get closer to Russia.
Note- Canada’s rise to nationhood was inspired by the US invasion of 1812 and the American military mistreatment of US citizens who were living there.
Russia Today is off the air…censorship is here!
And Russia blocking social media????
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/03/madman_putin_the_globalists_misinformation_play.html
‘Madman Putin’: The Globalists’ Misinformation Play
“For years Putin had warned that including Ukraine in NATO was a red line for Russia. It should not be difficult to understand his position. It is not unreasonable for Russia to object to the presence of what it perceives to be a hostile military alliance on its border with a country that has historically been either part of Russia or within its sphere of influence. Russia does not want to allow such a threat to its security for similar reasons the United States would not allow Russia to build a military base in Cuba.
In their drive to implement a New World Order, however, Western globalists have been dismissive of Russia’s security concerns. Russia continued its strenuous objections and warned that if they were not taken seriously, they would take the necessary action to keep Ukraine out of NATO. The last time Russia made this clear was in November of last year.
This is how Wikipedia describes this occasion:
Do you want to know what kind of response Putin received to his legitimate security concerns? It was given by NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg. This is what he told Putin:
Do you get the insult and the humiliation of this response? ”
And no, I’m not a Russian agent, sympathiser, shill, etc, etc.
“Russia has no veto, Russia has no say, and Russia has no right to establish a sphere of influence to try to control their neighbors.””
That aged well….
“And no, I’m not a Russian agent, sympathiser, shill, etc, etc.”
Clearly, you are.
Russian agent:
noun
1 a person who mentions inconvenient aspects of reality that call into question the Official Truth that Russia is a 1930s style aggressor comparable to Hitler’s Germany.
2 a person who argues that sovereignty considerations that apply to the US and to US sphere countries should also apply to Russia
Synonyms: Russian sympathiser, shill, Putin apologist, Putin dupe etc
I find it alarming the glee that many media and politicians have in ramping an aggressive rhetoric. Creating a xenophobic or polarised view in the public is dangerous. The public then expect military action. People need to remember we are playing with nuclear holocaust. Sure put pressure on Putin but don’t box him in, make sure there is room for him to back down without losing face.
When will China go into Taiwan? I fear Chinese expansion more than Russian.
Admittedly, my Ukraine regional geography isn’t , perhaps, entirely up to scratch, but it does appear that Mr Putin is bombing the bejeesus out of the ‘ethnic Russian Ukranians’ whom he is supposed to be saving from the Nazis… which is odd,
So, at the risk of dumbing down the debate (which has been great today by the way) how do we think this all fits in with the issues we’ve all been so worked up about over the last two years?
We’ve all seen the photos of Putin with Schwab, we know that to some extent Putin’s Russia ‘played along’ with the pandemic, to the point of introducing vaccine passports etc.
Does this action mark a break with the project? Are they connected or even related? Or is this simply realpolitik creeping into the fantasy la-la land Western leaders want us to inhabit? I’m losing control of my own narrative!
Russia is geographically large but small in terms of GDP, the figures I remember are similar to Italy.
So Russia must not be confused with the USSR. I was disappointed when Russia went along with the covid narrative, but I assume they could not afford to alienate much more powerful forces. It is only with the Ukraine issue that they have been forced to act. And they avoided action for many years although the threat of NATO encroachment grew in that time, because I assume they did not have the military capacity to defend themselves. They have waited until they are strong enough, I assume. And that meant playing along to some extent.
That is my guess.
Denis Rancourt thinks that all countries see a future that is more unstable because the international arms treaties and the basis of international law has been repeatedly trashed by the US and its allies.
He thinks they all wish for greater internal control to enable them to respond fully to external threats. They can no longer afford a democracy. Totalitarian blocs facing each other and the ever present threat of war seems to be the future they envisage.
Full internal control of citizens via vax passports seems to be what they want.
That makes complete sense (as usual!). I was also disappointed by Russia’s response to Covid. I was practically cheering for them when they intervened in Syria thinking at last someone had the nerve and the know-how to stand up to US imperialism.
What Russia didn’t do in the plandemic, however, was inject toxic genetic bioweapons into their entire population. They are so many layers to this story it’s utterly mind boggling.
If the overriding context is western economic collapse, which I still think it is, then Russia’s actions now perform the same role as the plandemic; provide a plausible external explanation for inflation and rapidly falling living standards in the west. I was on CNN yesterday and alongside the lies and childish bullshit there were articles about how Russia would ultimately stop selling oil and gas to the US and Europe, leading to severe economic turmoil. It’s clear that covid has been ditched swiftly as though the new crisis is intended to pick up where it left off. Dark times ahead.
Have you heard him talking about Ukraine? The last I heard of him was on Jerm Warfare talking about climate change.
Russia has the fifth-largest economy in Europe, the world’s eleventh-largest economy by nominal GDP (gross domestic product), and the sixth-largest by PPP (purchasing power parity).
And they are the equal first – with Syria – user and espouser of the use of chemical and bio weapons, both internally and externally. Sorry to remind you of that distinctly tedious factlet.
Interview with Pepe Escobar in two parts. The first only really starts 14 minutes in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8syVHWRv_k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY_9KAFblEQ
“Western values”:
Jail Time for Czechs Agreeing With Russian InterventionMarch 1, 2022
The supreme state prosecutor’s office of the Czech Republic has warned Czech citizens that they can be imprisoned for agreeing with Russia’s military operation in Ukraine, reports Joe Lauria.
Radio Prague International reported that police have begun to monitor online communications to look for offenders.
“The chief public prosecutor, Igor Stríž, has warned that public support for the Russian aggression against Ukraine expressed at demonstrations or on social networks can currently be considered a criminal offense. He warned citizens to respect freedom of speech and not to exceed its limits. Under Czech law support for crimes against humanity or genocide are punishable by up to three years in jail. At the same time, St?íž added that the legal assessment of such acts is very complicated.
Police Presidium spokesman Ondrej Moravcík confirmed that the police will monitor potential excesses not only at public gatherings, but also in cyberspace.”
The Czech news site TN-CZ reported that:
“Czech police are already investigating dozens of complaints from people who reported that someone had publicly approved and supported the Russian invasion of Ukraine. On Saturday, Attorney General Igor Stríž warned that he could face up to three years in prison for supporting Russian aggression, for example on demonstrations or social networks.”
According to the Ukrainian embassy in Prague, two people have already been arrested under these statutes for supporting Russia. It tweeted, according to Google’s translation:
“Czech law enforcement warns that public approval of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine could be classified as a ‘crime of denial, questioning, approval and justification of GENOCIDE. There are already two first cases of detainees incriminated in this paragraph of the Criminal Code.”
Slovakia and Latvia Too
Slovakian television network RTV-Spravy reported:
In Latvia, news site Par Drasibu reported:
“This war also resonates in Latvia and the attempts of local supporters of the war to justify Russia’s aggression against Ukraine are also visible. In this regard, citizens are urged to report to the State Police and the State Security Service all statements and individuals who call for, support and justify Russian aggression in Ukraine.”
What happened in Prague in 1968??
One of JP’s best, and good comments BTL too.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q1W5o3Xz5OI
7.38ff:
“Even though I don’t know what’s true, I can look at what the media tells me, and therefore at least know what’s not true.”
“Danny Zeck
@d_a_zeck
1. März
Don’t blindly accept what the media says. Don’t blindly dismiss what the media says.
Don’t blindly accept what alternative platforms/personalities say. Don’t blindly dismiss what alternative platforms/personalities say.
Stop blindly accepting anything. Stop blindly dismissing.”
Blimey, 350 comments and still going. Don’t expect Noah was expecting this.
Full of troll bot responses, i think! My post was commented on a lot, but in a way that it doesn’t make any sense. Sentences that look like sentences, but have no meaning. Watch out!
Thanks, I saw a few short and not much to the point replies but trolls did not occur to me.
“Full of troll bot responses, i think! My post was commented on a lot, but in a way that it doesn’t make any sense. Sentences that look like sentences, but have no meaning. Watch out!“
Eh? That raises serious questions about you as a commenter here. Your post conflicted with my recollection, so I went to check.
Your comment received a total of 6 direct replies from: NickR, DB, kate, TheBluePill, David Beaton, JXB.
Not a single one fitted your description. Most (actually all, I think) of those are past commenters here, most fairly regular.
Which raises two questions:
which of those six responders are you supposedly claiming might be “troll bots”, and;
why did you post such an obvious lie?
There are little to no bot posts on this site, although we have had problems with trolls, that seem to have dissipated recently. Just because replies do not go your way doesn’t mean they are bots. And don’t be offended if people have differing opinions. Any opinion is welcome, apart from trolls who just want to agitate.
Don’t overlook the propaganda effect of five years of demonizing Putin and Russia in the United States by the democrat party. Baseless, as it is turning out, but a constant drumbeat. And so many people believe it even now.
How many political opponents of Purin have been assassinated in that time? Putin hasn’t been demonized, merely his actions have been reported.
Thanks to all of you for the history and background about how this all came to be and the propaganda involved. Not much about the past that I would argue with you about. I tend to agree with Toby however. The Russians are invading right now, and I side with the refugees fleeing to Poland and Hungary who may or may not have a home to return to. All the conflicts and tragedies of the past mean little right now. Putin could have taken what he already had, bided his time, negotiated for a little more, upped the price for energy to enhance his position and in a few years, he would be able to get more, maybe everything. The threat of missiles in Ukraine is minimal when there are missiles already all over Europe. This is just a tragedy, and it is unnecessary.
“All the conflicts and tragedies of the past mean little right now.”
Easy to say when you aren’t the target of a militarily aggressive superpower with a track record of waging aggressive wars of choice and a culture of hatred directed at you.
“Putin could have taken what he already had, bided his time, negotiated for a little more, upped the price for energy to enhance his position and in a few years, he would be able to get more, maybe everything.”
Huh? The situation in the Ukraine was only getting worse for Russia, and quite rapidly, with NATO arming and construction proceeding apace. The intention was either to create a situation where a fait accompli declaration could be made or to just let it proceed indefinitely, into de facto NATO incorporation. Meanwhile Russian speakers in the Ukraine were being actively discriminated against and murdered in the separatist regions.
The longer the Russians put action off, the harder and more costly it was becoming.
“The threat of missiles in Ukraine is minimal when there are missiles already all over Europe.”
The incorporation of the Ukraine pushes the NATO border 1000 km into the very heart of southern Russia. Its not just hypothetical missile deployments.
Imagine the Warsaw Pact incorporating Texas.
Here’s what Putin said:
““I would like to add that the Maritime Operations Center in Ochakov [Ochakiv], built by the Americans, makes it possible to ensure the actions of NATO ships, including their use of high-precision weapons against the Russian Black Sea Fleet and our infrastructure on the entire Black Sea coast. At one time, the United States intended to create similar facilities in the Crimea, but the Crimeans and Sevastopolians thwarted these plans. We will always remember that.”
“Many Ukrainian airfields are located near our borders. NATO tactical aviation stationed here, including carriers of high-precision weapons, will be able to hit our territory to a depth of up to the Volgograd-Kazan-Samara-Astrakhan line. The deployment of radar reconnaissance equipment on the territory of Ukraine will allow NATO to tightly control the airspace of Russia up to the Urals.””
“This is just a tragedy, and it is unnecessary.”
Yeah, right. Like I said, easy for you to say.
Since 2008 Putin has had nothing but broken promises, these date back to post Soviet pledges from the West not to expand eastwards. Even after Maidan 2014 he has bided his time. He didn’t recognise the declared statehood of Donetsk and Luhasnk in 2014, despite these states making a string prima facie case for independence under international law. Instead he ‘bided his time’ and watched the the 2014 borders being gradually pushed back by as the puppet regime in Kyiv authorised military action leading to thousands of deaths and injuries (this, btw, recognised by the UN). This is all outlined in Professor Mearsheimer’s 2015 University of Chicago lecture.
And events over the last 48 hours show precisely why Putin couldn’t sit on his hands any longer. The EU has now openly pledged to destroy Russia’s industrial capacity, with the unelected German EU president joyfully laying out these pledges while declaring Germany’s new military renaissance (although already in place, but denied, from 2010). Ironically the 1945 ERP (the Marshall plan) was at pains NOT to do this to a beaten Germany after its WW2 attrocities.
Further today the ultimate American aim to strip Russia of all world power and influence was unveiled, although it has long been advocated by US Hawks as Putin well knew. RT (a very mild state owned voice, btw, often more critical of Russia than Western outlets) has announced:
Russian actions in Ukraine have tiptoed (as much as this is possible when facing heavy weaponry) around residential areas and infrastructure (btw the trains are still running, the internet is still on, power is still on etc). Ukraine borders Russia, until recently it was Soviet territory, and still shares strong cultural, family and historical ties. In protecting Russian speakers in the Donbass, Putin is necessarily pushing back against the puppet Ukraine government and its fascist (simply a statement of fact, not opinion) forces. Provocation has been constant, even before ‘the invasion’ Zelensky’s script began demanding NATO Nukes pointing at Moscow, article 5 protection and EU status. Contrast this with US obliterate and rebuild tactics against country after country it has no legitimate interest in, often without any UN mandate either. But as the USA owns the UN this doesn’t matter, its place on the Security Council is never threatened whatever atrocities or transgression it commits.
Civilian refugees have been flowing for years into Russia from the Donbass to escape relentless shelling and the scorched earth tactics of the puppet Ukrainian regime and its quasi independent fascist Azov battalion. Not a peep from the UN.
Exactly. This is all about an irrational Putin. Playing a rational Devil’s Advocate is a waste of time.
Excellent
Putin knowingly took a wrecking ball to his country by embracing the WHOs disastrous shamdemic “guidance” more enthusiastically than other world leaders. He is also backing the globalist plan for an entirely cashless society by forcing a digital rouble on the reluctant Russians,
Publicly, he claims to be sceptical about the WEF/UN/World Bank-backed Great Reset – which would turn most of us into state-dependent serfs – while simultaneously treating his own people like. . .serfs!
Actions speak louder than words. Much of what this billionaire dictator does – not least starting a war which will further degrade not only his own fragile economy but also those of Ukraine and her allies – will further the dystopian dream of his deranged mentor, Klaus Schwab.
This footage, of Nazi Schwab publicly praising Putin in the same breath the tyrannical Justin Trudeau, speaks for itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYYCCtqo7Bo
This is exactly what I tried to say to TalkRadio (Mike Graham) but I was not called back. I challenged TalkRadio to put George Galloway on as he provides an alternative narrative worth listening to in situations such as these (remember WMD?). Again, told he was no platformed. The home of common sense and free speech? Julia Hartley Brewer daily embarrassing herself. Mike Graham at least gave Peter Hitchins air time.
George Galloway??? Seriously?
Galloway has been correct on every foreign policy matter for the last 50 years. Quite a pedigree in my opinion. A man who should be listened to. Unlike you and your multiple question marks.
Well done, Noah, for writing that whole article without using the word “appeasement”, even though that’s what’s in every paragraph.
I could not possibly support the mainstream narrative. After all, Ukraine has been shelling Russian civilians for seven years and it harbours a Nazi regiment in its army. These…in addition to anything else. On this, I take sides and it has to be Russia. Everything I hear from the UK state makes me more and more a sceptic.
This article appears to equate NATO and Putin. This is incomprehensible…..NATO is a defensive organisation…has it ever initiated an offensive operation? Putin is behaving like Hitler…same spurious rationale, same deceitful propaganda, same expansionist objectives. Your so-called “sceptical view” will be just music to his ears.
Good, balanced article
Well done. It seems to me that those people who want freedom for UK do not care of the freedoms of Donbas people or indeed Ukrainian people. For 8 long years there has been friction and bombing in Donbas. Where was Toby then. At least look at the circumstances surrounding President Putins incursion before declaring for Ukraine..
We also know that Obama, Biden and Clinton were stealing Ukrainian money and laundering it to fund destabilisation in other areas. Including UK and much of Europe.
One further point. I am becoming more irritated by statements such as ‘even though I don’t like Putin.’, ‘Trump’ or whomsoever the left find too brash for their sensitive tastes. There is no reason to make these personal statements if you are looking at a situation of facts and truths. It shows the need to remain with friends who are creating problems. Ie the establishment want to remain the establishment.
I have enjoyed DailySceptic since its inception but I have been well aware that Toby really is part of the establishment and wants to keep those ties for professional reasons. Therefore there is an hypocrisy in some of his writings.
I do not know President Putin so I would not make personal statements about him. However, I do know that Russia has always tried to be our ally and helped us win both World Wars. It became the Soviet Union due to Western money and game playing which hurt the Russian people for generations. Russia now wants to be accepted as a free country making it’s own way in the world. It has not been the instigator of wars throughout the Middle East and it hasn’t been involved in regime change or the murder of minorities in the way that EU or America has. Therefore I must deduce that it’s Government wants peace on its borders and trade with other countries that will benefit its citizens.
“Want freedom for the UK”???? We want freedom for Ukraine!
Excellent. At some point would you tell us where Stenka Razin and the Cossacks fit into this patchwork?
Stenka Razin and the Cossacks had a couple of hit records in the late 1950s, I believe: Tell Stalin I Love Him, and Crimea River.
I’m afraid we are using skepticism as our only tool in the toolbox here. Sometimes consequences are so bad that one has to keep quiet rather than give succor and ammunition to a tyrant. It wouldn’t pay to be skeptical about the assumption that if you jump off a very tall building without a parachute you will die would it?
What a terrible person you are for deflating the bubble of the Indoctrinaires on this blog…
Exactly. Russia doesn’t want Ukraine. It wants the two territories recognised and Ukraine kept out of Nato. Not to conquer Ukraine, but to rid it of Nazis.
nazi’s?
you think there are nazi’s in ukraine?
you want to see real nazi’s ?
go to germany, austria, italy, france canada, new zealand and australia,and you do not have to look any further.
for nazi’s are not those that wave a swastika flag, but are those that act like they were in the 19 thirties germany and are relishing it.
a canadian pm openly discussing not tolerating a part of the population because it has unacceptable views. you can seen where he got the idea, or don’t you?
a french pm openly stating that he wants to make part of the population as uncomfortable as possible and he wants to shit on them. ring a bell?
a new zealand pm claiming she, and she alone, holds the truth and the right point of view.
remember that one?
an australian mp building concentration camps for those opposing his view on how things ought to be. now that one ought to be obvious.
there you got your nazi’s.
and all those are countries where waving a swastika flag is a crime….
That doesn’t mean there aren’t Ns in Ukraine too. I don’t know if there are – but I’m sure if they’re in those erstwhile ”well balanced” countries, they’ve infiltrated others as well.
sure, do what chamberlain and daladier did in 1938 to appease adolf hitler.
they gave him sudetenland, and you propose to give putin ukraine.
and look what that has brought the world…
and make no mistake, putin is as much of a mad dog as hitler was.
putin played trump for the fool he is and laughs at demented biden.
he despises the western degeneracy, because it is weak.
and to him it is okay to attack a weak country….
you really think that giving in is going to change his mind?
on the other hand i think it would be a good situation if putin were not to stop at the ukraine but take the rest of europe too.
surely then the idiocy of gender pronouns would come to an end….
This shows the conflict within Ukraine that must be resolved to end the bloodshed. Is it clear that ethnic Russians within UKraine want to ruled by Putin’s version of Russia? This is not necessarily the case, but if it is, then the simple negotiated deal would be to redraw the border with those that want to be part of Russia on the Russian side of it. I think there is perhaps more to it than that and Putin isn’t prepared to compromise in that way because he wants Ukraine’s resources. Its also possible that at the outset the Ukrainians wouldn’t allow a change to their border, but I suspect that may now have changed. The problem is how would you draw the new borders.. The best way would be by a democratic referendum in each area, but Putin doesn’t believe in democracy so it wouldn’t be acceptable to him. Perhaps an idependant country ( India or China?) could broker negotiations and get people round the table to resolve this and stop the bloodshed.
Good article with lots of sensible points. And strange/worrying how arguing that Putin has some understandable or even valid concerns about what was happening is to be pro-Putin.
Noah, I don’t know you, but I am in total agreement with you. Just wish it was you sitting around the table negogiating for the good guys. Sadly, the west is outnumbered by baddies, and that for me is the real worry.
Have a read of this
https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/the-wests-green-delusions-empowered?s=r
15 minutes ago I tried to make a Comment on The Independent website. It was rejected as not compiling with their policy. Can you see any incitement to hatred or profanity in my comments? You may not agree with what I tried to say or might feel it is factually incorrect in some way, but who am I offending?
“Is this our 1914 moment? All the elements are there, The Russian Bear (The Hun), Plucky Little Ukraine (Belgium), a moral crusade against Enemy, closing and sanctioning of Enemy business, or indeed anything Enemy including newsfeeds and websites. Of course, if you are the Enemy but of high personal wealth you are welcome, not with open arms perhaps, but you can receive Absolution for a consideration just like in the days of Yore. Have you noticed that Covid has magically disappeared from the MSM? That’s Show Business for you”.
Mark Stein GBNews…..what are the odds that a young woman reporter turns up at Boris’s press conference on the Polish/Ukrainian border telling him to get the RAF into the sky and shoot down Russian planes, and coincidentally just happens to be Daria Kaleniuk….one of the WEFs Young Global Leaders Community??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym9T6AP9zxw
There’s seems to be nothing mentioned about the EU’s part in all this. I admit to be being woefully ignorant (though I’m trying to educate myself) but a few years ago, wasn’t the EU pushing a stick into the hornets’ nest by trying to bring Ukraine into the EU ”family”?
It seems now that reasoned discussion has to be prefaced with ‘I’m not a Putin supporter’, just as it was with ‘I’m not an anti-vaxxer’ up until recently.
I agree with most of the article – I do see this as on a par with the Cuban Missile Crisis, but would add that Russia’s position on Ukraine not being in NATO and not having nuclear weapons is in everyone’s interests, not just Russia’s, because the deterrent of MAD – mutually assured destruction – which has maintained the balance of nuclear power for decades – cannot work if the weapons are on your door step. After all, what use is a burglar alarm if the burglar is living in the guest room?
You cannot ignore the fact that the US MIC has been vilifying Russia since the fall of the USSR. Even after Russia has essentially become a more open and westernized country, this has continued unabated. This policy is fully supported by Britain and the EU. Having weak Middle East countries as enemies is not enough. They need a sophisticated enemy. This is to ensure the flow of investment into the MIC. China is the real enemy but there is too much invested in China and too much to lose by the rich and powerful. Putin invading the Ukraine is actually just what they were after. If Putin thinks he will win this he is sadly mistaken.
Goodness I absolutely agree with everything you’ve said. Amazing. Thanks good article.
A very good article, but will fall on deaf ears unfortunately, such is the hysteria generated by the latest “crisis”.
We interview Tanya, an English teacher and theatre director as she navigates life through war torn #Kyiv.
iTunes
Spotify
Website
Essential but Hard Viewing if you want to understand what motivates Russia
https://www.bitchute.com/video/cklE52QyOQs4/
If you want to understand Putin’s position, watch
https://www.bitchute.com/video/cklE52QyOQs4/ (6 minutes)
What you seem to have totally missed is the fact that Putin himself is merely following orders issued by the evil Davos team in Switzerland and that it exactly coincides with the official breakdown of the covid plandemic. Putin only invaded Ukraine on orders from the higher ups.
Really, I am shocked at the myopia here in this regard. After all, take a look at Putins convid programme, it is exactly the same as the rest. Then take a look at the WEF and his associations with the wicked clowns who are destroying the world. This war is the next phase of the genocide and Ukraine is run by the same bunch of Nazis except this time it is evident that the Nazis are also the Ashkenazis and Tartars.
Many are missing these facts on the ground even though they are evident with a closer look at this war that started 14 years ago and is in the main a war on the Christian majority of the country in particular those who speak Russian and the war has been waged by the Ukraine govt with help from the West on these folks.
The European peasantry, in Europe and anywhere else, is the target, those who still live according to Christian values and principles is the red flag for the bull. MSM is not giving you the truth. Putin has taken greater pains than Trump to associate himself with Christianity, Russia is overtly stated as a Christian nation and government. Putin will have the same detrimental impact on the nations in the wake of his exit.
Do you think Putin doesn’t know that his own country is risking destruction at the hands of NATO who is far greater in power than Russia? Do you actually believe that the West has not infiltrated the Ukraine military and posing as Ukrainians in an effort to destroy the Ukrainian and Russian people? The truth is that a cult is driving this onslaught on humanity and it is called satanism.
You’ve got this right. It’s just not the natural view from the west because we wear white hats and the ruskies wear black ones. Putin never established he was trustworthy so the west suborned the geo-political realities because we wear white hats. But no Russian sees it that way. Oh, and they have never experienced democracy to help enable them to understand our point of view.
I fully agree with the narrative above but I fear this narrative is the minority view. As during covid mania the masses are fed a narrative that is rammed down their throats on a 24/7 basis and for anyone to stray beyond that narrative your are deemed a heretic.