In the Mail, Professor Doug Stokes explores how Western individuals and groups, knowingly or unknowingly, back organisations like Hamas, despite their actions being in conflict with Western values and principles. Here’s how his article begins:
On a summer’s day, a parade of young people and children march for gay rights, waving the rainbow flag, in Ramallah, on the Palestinian West Bank.
Suddenly, a masked mob of Islamists storm into their midst, beating and kicking them, screaming abuse. Security forces look on in apparent approval, doing nothing, according to Amnesty International.
That vicious, depressing incident in July seems comparatively trivial now compared to the unimaginable horrors of the Hamas terrorist attack on Israeli settlements near Gaza, and the slaughter at the Nova peace music festival.
But it has grim significance as we try to comprehend the global threats to Western civilisation and to our democratic way of life.
It might seem obvious, given the strength of calls for LGBT rights in Britain and the U.S. over the past half a century, that gay campaigners would be vehement in their condemnation of Hamas. But no. The opposite is true.
Actors and TV personalities, many always so eager to be seen as advocates or allies of LGBT people, have tied themselves in knots to avoid condemning the atrocities.
Many have condemned Israel, oblivious to the fact that it is on the front line of a broader conflict of values, or to what might be the fate of those who tried to speak out for LGBT rights in Gaza.
The truth is we have reached a point of madness where Left-wingers in the West now seem to support groups, however barbaric, whatever their crimes, to signal their contempt for our civilisation.
The immense irony is that they can do this only because of the precious values of free speech and democracy. Three decades ago, the liberal Left was brimming with smugness at the end of the Cold War. The darling of the intellectuals was historian Francis Fukuyama, whose book The End Of History predicted Western values were now accepted the world over. In as many words, he claimed that religion, communism and intolerance were aberrations of the past.
That view provoked a counterblast from the political scientist Samuel Huntington, whose book, The Clash Of Civilisations, warned that war in the future was inevitable but it would be fought between cultures, not countries.
Instead of wars between opposing monarchs, nations and ideologies, he foresaw the future of conflict caused by clashing ‘civilisation states’. We can now see how wrong Fukuyama’s optimistic, triumphal End Of History thesis was. The world has not become blandly centre-Left, some sort of global New Labour rainbow regime.
Huntington’s Clash Of Civilisations theory has proved partially right. The rise of Al Qaeda, Isis, and now Hamas, shows that Islamist death cults pose an existential threat to all Western values. Russia and China both fit Huntington’s template. They have no doubts about how essential it is to protect their own cultures.
Worth reading in full.
To join in with the discussion please make a donation to The Daily Sceptic.
Profanity and abuse will be removed and may lead to a permanent ban.
I have no idea who the ”people of Loot” were, but I don’t think their Prophet was overly fond of gays;
”The Queers For Palestine crowd is much in evidence these days, but is in for a rude awakening.
A hadith depicts Muhammad specifying the punishment for homosexual activity: “The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, ‘Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.’” (Sunan Abu Dawud 4462)”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2023/10/new-lgbtq-flag-has-palestine-colors-despite-islams-death-penalty-for-homosexuality
I actually don’t think a group of people could display their ignorance so adequately;
https://twitter.com/OliLondonTV/status/1718664923394220529
Nah…this psycho who has completely gone off the reservation is way more of a threat…
https://news.sky.com/video/israel-hamas-war-we-will-fight-and-we-will-win-says-benjamin-netanyahu-12995212
Netanyahu: “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible”
1 Samuel 15:3
“Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass”
Clear enough for everybody….?
Can I ask you this: would you want to live under Sharia law? Do you think women should be treated as less, as inferior people? Do you think society should be governed by mob rule? This conflict, in my mind at least, goes far beyond who did what when. I agree with you on many things related to the Palestinian side of the argument, but the whole thing is so nuanced that we have to keep stepping back to have a chance for the whole picture to come into focus. That’s my opinion anyway.
I certainly would not want to live under Sharia law. But then I’m not from that culture. I feel sorry for people born into that culture, but then maybe they feel sorry for me. I think our way of life is better, and I wonder why other people don’t adopt it, but I would settle for us being left alone to do things our way in exchange for leaving others alone to find their own path.
…It’s a fact that in numerous polls the Chinese always come out as one of the happiest countries in the world..…and they also believe they live in a democracy…
Who am I to argue with 1.4 billion people?
This is one of the arguments from the Global South..that the West always thinks that people want to live like them, and that they have the right to force it onto people who don’t want it….
I regard the Chinese as giant termites.
Don’t know what to say to that…..they say such good things about you…LOL!!
How many migrants jump in small boats to get to China for a better life?
Except many millions of these people from a different culture that you say should “find their own path” now live in Europe and the UK, and they are not leaving you alone to follow yours. They are causing problems and bringing their sectarian clutter to the west.
Indeed. It seems like a tragic mistake, from which it is probably too late to retreat.
Oh it is way too late. I knew people could sleepwalk but I never knew a whole continent could, but the last 30 years of mass immigration and virtual open borders have shown me that indeed it can and it is. ——-Europe is sleepwalking to the destruction of it’s culture
No I wouldn’t, but then again neither do I worry about it, because it’s extremely unlikely to happen in my lifetime…
Nor do I fear Russia or China particularly…..in fact there’s much about both of these countries that I admire.
Conflating the people wanting peace, and wanting ceasefires with the left and with Hammas is just par for the course with any article on DS at the moment, but it’s obvious bull crap….I still don’t know what is hard to understand about someone being gay and knowing that it would be illegal in those countries and still having compassion and support for the people of Palestine…?
Its becoming pretty boring hearing the same old baloney regurgitated in every article..”they support Hammas”….no they support the people being indiscriminately bombed and killed…
“They don’t condemn Oct 7th”..yes they do, every single time….
…what they don’t like is that then people go on to ask why those are atrocities, but killing babies and children by the thousands isn’t…because if you ask that you’ve somehow become a defender of Hammas, and anti democratic…
Notice in this entire article he never mentions the thousands of dead civilians in Palestine? Of course he doesn’t…but apparently he’s the democratic and civilised one…?
Plus Hammas, Isis, Al Quaida etc didn’t ‘rise’..they all came about either because they were created by conflicts caused by those ‘democracies’ he talks about, or were paid and supported by the same people..including Netanyahu paying Hammas, as is well documented…
Beware of rampant conflation.
What a clutter of nonsense you just spoke. ——“It’s extremely unlikely to happen in my lifetime”? ——Once our country is 15% then 30% then 51% Muslim you will see incredible changes and we are already seeing the destruction of our culture with our open border mass immigration madness. Always it is the UK who has to succumb hardest and fastest to the Liberal Progressive virus sweeping the western world. We are always the ones to “save the planet” the hardest. Always the ones to let the wokery whip our behinds. Always the ones to shout “Migrants welcome” while we pretend we want to control our borders.
I’m not sure Israel is a threat to the UK. The left are, for many reasons – enthusiasm for mass immigration, collectivism, safetyism, nut zero, etc.
Israel along with it’s Zionisim is a threat to the whole world.
Israel was formed from Zionist terrorists
Well, it’s true that Jews are over-represented in certain significant areas, but there simply are not that many of them, so even if some of them have some nefarious purpose/influence, for that to be dangerous requires the collusion and complicity of lots of other non-Jews.
How do you see this “threat to the whole world” unfolding?
“but there simply are not that many of them,”
Absolutely hilarious…
Well how many Zionists or Jews are there on this planet? I think very few, in global terms. Numbers matter, IMO.
How do you see this “threat to the whole world” unfolding?
I’m not sure the argument “There aren’t many of them: how much influence could they have?” really works.
Soros and his son are just two people.
Well, of course it’s possible that a small number of people can have a big influence, but if they have influence then there are people being influenced, who could choose not to be influenced.
I think we need to replace “influenced” with “bought”.
Well maybe but someone still has to “sell”.
Maybe there is a threat, but I just see others as much bigger – our own desire to destroy what we’ve built, China (a very large country with a lot of people, with drive and a growing capability), demographics (Africa).
“Our own desire to destroy what we’ve built”
I just can’t see “our” including the vast majority of the indigenous population.
We live in a fake democracy.
True – most seem asleep
There’s no evidence that Soros is doing what he’s doing because of his beliefs as a person of Jewish heritage. You’re just repeating the centuries old antisemitic trope about a secret cabal of Jews wanting to take over the world. Judaism quite clearly isn’t an evangelical religion that wants to convert other people or if this isn’t possible conquer and kill/enslave them. Many interpretations of Islam clearly promote these ideas therefore Islam is a threat to Western civilization, Judaism, even ultra orthodox Zionism isn’t.
Why are they so over-represented?
I’m not sure it matters why. Why is any specific group over or underrepresented in any sphere of human activity? It’s just the way things are.
It’s clearly ethocentrism.
Aren’t most “ethnicities” fairly “ethnocentric”? Just less successful.
Clearly the British are pretty crap at ethnocentrism.
But then Jews tell us that our ethnocentrism is immoral, unlike theirs.
We’re certainly not as good at it as we were, though I would prefer a “centrism” based more on shared values.
People of West African ancestry aren’t hugely over-represented in sprinting gold medals because that’s “just the way things are”.
People of highland NE African origin aren’t hugely over-represented in distance gold medals because that’s “just the way things are”.
That’s exactly why. Genetics – that’s “the way things are”.
Right: you think Jewish over-representation is down to genetically-higher IQs.
Except it can’t possibly be because there are so few of them: if average Ashkenazi IQ – Mizrahi Jews, the majority of the Israeli Jewish population, are no brighter than other Middle-Eastern goat-herders – was 112 and Northern European IQ 100 – figures I’ve often seen claimed- there would still be far, far more high IQ Northern Europeans than Jews. The degree of their overperformance can’t be explained by higher averasge IQ.
They are vicious racists.
Haven’t most “races” been fairly “racist” for some or most of their history. If not a higher IQ then better at playing the game of life?
David Ben Gurion was pretty clear about the agenda of the Zs.
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.”
— David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
“We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.”
David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.
When Israeli embassy staff state they can take down MP’s that are considered hostile, that shows a threat exists.
How much of the political and media frothing at the mouth regarding anti-semitism is the result of this influence?
I wasn’t aware of anything to do with “taking down MPs”. Who said what about who?
I agree it seems hard to have a sensible debate about Israel. I don’t doubt that there are people who are “anti-semitic” but that doesn’t mean that some of what they say isn’t true or at least worth considering.
Have a look for Shai Masot. It was a notable story in 2017.
Thanks
…we will have to disagree..I think Netanyahu and his fascist government are a threat to us all….as his actions could seriously cause a larger conflict…
Besides the brutality in Gaza, and the bombing in Syria and Lebanon…there are currently 73 US/NATO ships massing in the Eastern Mediterranean ….
Also, it might just be me but as the Conservative Government have been in power for nearly twenty years now..
during all of Covid, the rise of trans and woke, unrivalled immigration, Net Zero..signing us up to Agenda 2030…mass censorship, WHO, WEF etc…
..and they are supposedly on the right..
how come I feel as though life has never been worse?
I agree it could cause a larger conflict, though the US and NATO may be complicit in that.
“supposedly on the right”.
“supposedly” is the operative word. My version of “right” is to do with freedom and small government, the individual vs the collective.
There’s plenty of passages in the Bible where God instructs his chosen people to conduct ethnic cleansing and genocide. However these are restricted to the conquest and defence of the promised land and there’s no possible interpretation of them that calls on Jews to conquer the whole world. No doubt some ultra orthodox Israeli’s want to clear Gaza and the West Bank of all Palestinians but this would be a minority view in Israel and among Jewish people globally.
Exellent article from Off Guardian
https://off-guardian.org/2023/10/28/the-great-reset-part-1-the-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/
With an equally exellent post..
Pyewacket
Oct 29, 2023 8:53 AM
Tptb have another tool in their box of tricks, ready to roll out, as and when required, which is War. Yes, I mean actual War, with all its associated accoutrements. The pre-War, propaganda phase has been steadily rolled out since late 2021 at least, with the unfolding of the Ukraine debacle, although it could be reasonably argued that it has been going on for much longer than that. Apparently, Peace was on the verge of being agreed at the meeting of the belligerent parties, held in Turkiye a couple of months after the start of the Russian SMO, then Bojo turned up, and allegedly, scorched any thought of that. Fighting to the last Ukrainian was the order, there was no other alternative. And, now we’re here, the Ukrainian adventure hasn’t gone quite as planned, in fact it’s been an absolute disaster. But, well No, they’re not backing down, no siree. If one War doesn’t work, let’s have another, or even a couple more. Aircraft Carrier battle groups are moving into position, Gaza is being bombed to smithereens, and now Syria is too. Iran is in the cross hairs, and War budgets are being prepared. Meanwhile, sensible people, millions of them, who don’t want any War are marching and protesting across the land. Cue for the War legislation to be enacted, we’re a false flag event away from Martial Law, Curfews, Rationing, Rights of Assembly, Travel restrictions, Freedom of Speech curtailed and even the holding of ideas and opinions that oppose the narrative. They’ve had their dry run rehearsal with the plandemic, the legislation (as cited above) is all in place. Now it’s just waiting for the Hey-Ho, let’s go, trigger to happen, and the Curtain to raise on Armageddon the Movie
()
It’s all set in motion….
All these downticker are 100% deluded and will never get it…
Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Freedom……
We’ve failed, everyone damn one of us.. Its game over.
…and none of it done under a ‘leftie’ Government?!
If they aren’t “leftie” then what are they? It doesn’t matter what you call yourself if all your policies are “leftie”.
It’s almost as though they’re expecting “trouble from the peasants.”
You nailed it. ————-A tyranny by a government that is supposed to represent it’s own citizens but who in reality treats them with utter contempt as it panders to the UN and WEF instead, so it can get a little gold star on ‘it’s lapel from the global government people.
I normally appreciate Simon Elmer’s writings but this is a garbled puff piece for his new book with convenient look backs to previous publications. It is a poorly written essay that could have been cut in half and would have had far more punch.
The post by Pyewacket on the other hand is accurate, forceful and precise. A commendable comment.
Jon, given the plethora of downtickers to this post and those following I suspect you have upset 77 Brigade or a gang of luvvies. Don’t forget upticks and downticks are free. Perhaps you are over the target.
Thanks for the link. Compulsory reading for all kids,lol.
Excellent summary of the way of the world and how and why theRPTB are controlling us.
Digital ID soon to be here – for the Greater Good of course.
We’re sleepwalking into a digital prison and nobody seems to care, but they will when it’s too bloody late.
Two consolations, all empires fall and the empire builders will face justice, though sadly not on this earth.
It’s a good article though like most seems to miss the underlying motive for governments, big business and the World ECONOMIC Forum to push ahead with the agenda that they agenda: after decades of fraud and irresponsibility and demographic shifts to naturally declining populations, the debt-based fiat money system underpinning most of the world’s currencies is broken, perhaps beyond repair. Former Bank of England governor Mervyn King predicted it in 2016 in his book The End of Alchemy. Ernstt Wolff, Ed Dowd,John Titus and Gregory Copley have likewise all reported extensively on the situation.
I couldn’t give a dam what celebrities say or not.
Israel is killing thousands of entirely innocent civilians. This is a fact.
Apparently over 7,000 Palestinains have been killed over the last couple of weeks. (And counting). Gaza is being turned to rubble. Water, power is being turned off. Diseases such as cholera may soon be rife.
Yet there is little condemnation from western governments.
It grieves me to say it, but those in power in Israel seem to be hell bent on genocide.
There is simply no nuance from the DS re this.
Have you been captured by the RPTB?
How many innocent kids have to die before you start questioning this?
Just look at these downtickers, to your perfectly rational, accurate and caring post.. Omg… This forum is done, full of war mongering, msm narrative believing delusional idiots..
There’s absolutely no hope for humanity.. No hope
Do you all still think the IDF were relaxing by the pool with their pants down believing all was quiet on the Gaza border on the 7th of October..
Quite.
Go on you downtickers, say precisely what you disagree with and why.
But remember, you will be agreeing with the slaughter of innocents.
Maybe you’re ok with dropping bombs from 3 miles high, the shrapel from which rips kids guts out? – How many more does Israel have to murder before you maybe think a little bit.
They have been normalised to the MIC dropping bombs, so much so that they can’t possibly imagine all those resulting body parts…. They can only see the msm nasty disgusting “terrorists” that carry it out by hand in the forced narrative of the msm.
Delusional and I’m fecking sick of this, Covid and the scandemic BS vaccines and they STILL moo along to the narrative.. F me… Take down your Ukrainian flags and fly the Israeli flag you deranged cattle of humanity.
Been my argument for decades.
If people saw kids being disemboweled by bayonets there’d be outrage, even by some on here maybe.
Yet, same thing from 3 miles high, not a murmur of protest.
Just collateral damage – as perpetrated by good old Uncle Sam.
Skepticism appears to be rather shallow around here.
Very disappointing.
I had hoped the editorial team on DS had a higher calibre in their capacity to balance this devastation away from partisan inflammatory distraction BS.
Alas, no.
This just happened in Russia. So stuff your ‘peaceful marches’ because antisemitism and hate crimes towards Jews are increasing in many countries since Oct 7th, and this is happening all the time, every day, so an organized demonstration that lasts several hours is hardly a reflection of the reality on the ground and what Jews are having to contend with on the regular with this increased level of threat across the world currently. What would this mob have done had they not diverted the plane? Oh and before idiots criticize the source, it’s all over Twitter, so go knock yourselves out.
”Muslim rioters came to the international airport in Makhachkala, the capital of the Russian republic of Dagestan, in order to harm Jewish Israelis.
The crowds waited for an Israeli flight that was supposed to arrive and checked vehicles leaving the airport to try and find Israeli or Jewish passengers.
Footage from the scene shows crowds chanting “Allahu Akbar,” and according to reports, they also chanted antisemitic chants.
The flight, which took off from Ben Gurion International Airport in Israel and was scheduled to land in Makhachkala, was rerouted and landed at a different airport.
According to local reports, the rioters also began to search for Israelis and Jews near the airport as well.
The incident occurred amid Israel’s war in Gaza and the spike in antisemitism around the globe.”
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/379362
Not another Israel National news, fgs.. I woulndt believe a damn word from this publication, especially at a time like this.
Why are you so adamant on this rag.. Does it fit in with your own biased view point by any chance…you should join the DS with their editing, you’ll fit in really well..
An utter joke to be quoting this paper at a time like this.. Utter Joke
Yes it is true..the area is largely Muslim, and a group descended on the airport, but were ‘removed’ by Russian Security Forces….
Why were Israeli Jews flying to Dagestan?
Where are the articles on the destruction of Gaza?
Is it just Daily Mail trash now?
1000 s of children dying now but we should definitely just worry about actors and protesters.
Shameful.
..yes according to this clown, it’s important to ‘protect their own cultures’..
not by art, or music, or commerce or in peace….…
….no apparently it done by fearing them all, going to war with them all, and then bombing the shite out of anybody who isn’t us..
coz that’s civilised and democratic!
It’s only a small step for far-left ideologues – already convinced of the incorruptible moral purity of their position – to consider any group or arbitrary issue to which they pay patronage morally pure too. When rationality itself is seen as a product of an systemic oppression, and strength of feeling instead becomes the determining factor in distinguishing right from wrong, reality just goes up in flames.
One thing history teaches us about the Jewish tribes is with God on their side , Nothing will defeat them. They are the Millwall of the world. ” We’re Israel, nobody likes us and we don’t care”
A couple of days ago, the papers reported on a 16-yr old Iranian girl who was beaten to death by the so-called “morality police” because her hair wasn’t covered.
Not one virtue-signalling lefty has spoken out to condemn that murder.
The popstars, film stars and football players don’t actually realise their popularity is being exploited for political purposes by the Progressive Left. If they all think they are oh so important and making a difference to the world, then they are total dreamers. They are allowing themselves to be USED.
..how many people really care though?
I was with mr gum and a couple of others in the local a couple of nights ago…and yes they are from the older age group, but they are people who read and are interested in most stuff….and I mentioned that Taylor Swift had become a billionaire,
to a man they said…Who? LOL!!
& So are The Ostriches who deny Climate Fraud, The Covid Fraud, The Experimental Injections Fraud & the CBDB Banking Cartel…..