Keir Starmer is today desperately trying to dampen the flames of a major Labour rebellion over his backing for Israel in the conflict in Gaza after he ducked out of mentioning the Middle East at PMQs this afternoon. The Mail has more.
The opposition leader is meeting with his Muslim MPs and peers this afternoon as he tries to defuse anger from pro-Palestinian backbenchers about his strong stance on the right to respond to Hamas terror attacks.
It comes after he used all his six questions this lunchtime to target Rishi Sunak over domestic issues including last week’s by-election defeats, as splits on foreign affairs look to be deepening within his own party.
Sir Keir is also embroiled in a bitter row with a mosque in Wales after community leaders accused him of “gravely misrepresenting” their discussions during a visit at the weekend.
Long-standing tensions within Labour have flared since the atrocities in Israel, with a slew of councillors quitting and Left-wing MPs deeply unhappy.
A letter from 150 councillors this morning demanded he calls for a ceasefire, which the U.K. and U.S. have not done because it would prevent Israel acting against Hamas.
Rishi Sunak used PMQs to back “specific pauses” in the conflict between Israel and Hamas to allow British nationals to escape Gaza and let aid in but rejected calls for a wider stop to hostilities.
Despite Sir Keir avoiding the subject, Labour’s Shadow Women and Equalities frontbencher Yasmin Qureshi asked: “How many more innocent Palestinian people must die before this Prime Minister calls for a humanitarian ceasefire?”
A Labour spokesman denied she had diverted from the party’s position against a blanket ceasefire, saying it was framed as a question.
The party said it supported calls for “humanitarian pauses” by the PM and U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken.
Criticism of the party leader has focused on an LBC interview where Sir Keir seemed to suggest Israel has the “right” to cut off power and water on Gaza.
Sir Keir has since denied he ever endorsed Israel withholding humanitarian aid, insisting his remark related to a different question.
However, the clarification has done little to ease the row. Sir Keir’s spokesman today denied he had avoided raising the issue at PMQs for party management reasons, pointing to the fact that it dominated two previous sessions and there have also been other debates.
The Labour leader will try to placate furious members of the Parliamentary party in a meeting after PMQs.
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Starmer – King of the Magic Roundabout…
I always enjoy reading stories about Kneel having problems. Internal scraps in the Labour Party are events to be savoured. What a boost to the day.
Nothing so revolutionary as a roundabout, more a seesaw.
What a choice, Labour struggling to keep a lid on antisemitism within their own ranks, or the conservatives presiding over police and local authorities that defend chants for jihad openly taking place on the streets up and down the UK.
Starmer is the quintessential “establishment” figure and member of the nefarious Trilateral Commission.
Many of us left the Labour Party when he became leader.
Supporting the plight of Palestinians doesn’t make one an anti-Semite.
Where does your “support for the plight of Palestinians” lead? I mean, I don’t delight in suffering but how can their “plight” be alleviated, in the long term?
Their plight is caused by Israel and the settlers who have been allowed to steal their land.
Israel and it’s US sponsors should adhere to UN resolutions and seek the two state solution but the apartheid Israel don’t want it.
Better still would be a one state solution where everyone was equal but the apartheid Israel don’t want it.
Thanks for your reply.
Do you really think the settlers are the problem? Isn’t the basic problem the state of Israel? I don’t think I would want a “one state solution where everyone was equal” had I been born a Jew in Israel but then I guess I am a horrible person.
I did say it was Israel (meaning their government) AND the settlers.
Russia and China support a Palestinian state to run next to Israel ie a two state solution.
It’s a pity the US interferes in most countries of the world creating chaos wherever they go.
A two state solution might have been possible decades ago but I can’t see how a Palestinian state could possibly be viable now given the land-thefts.
I agree about the US interfering
My question has attracted two downvotes. That’s all it was – a question, because I was interested in the poster’s view. Not a loaded question, or one expressing any opinion. So here we are on a site called the Daily Sceptic downvoting people asking simple questions. Get a bloody grip.
Three. Lol.
Now then ToF, you’ve been around long enough to not let such minor things wind you up, surely? Take it from this blue whale with an ever-present posse of pilot fish. You just need to increase production of dangleberries, is my advice. It’s a bit like getting narked with your own shadow otherwise.
Whatever narkedness I might feel pales in comparison to my anger over “covid” so I’m fairly immune.
Just disappointing to see a “community” not only divided but losing the ability debate.
But I understand that people have strong feelings on this subject.
Downticking doesn’t require payment so there’s no reason to believe that the downtickers are members of our “community”.
I guess so though they do visit the site so you’d hope they have some sense of what it’s meant to be about
You saved me having to respond Mogs. Wholly agree
It is a very challenging question for those of us who sympathise with the plight of both Palestinians and Israelis alike. How lucky I am to have been born and live in a country at peace. I can’t think of any conflict around the world where there is a straightforward solution. That doesn’t mean we can’t sympathise with the plight of both sides and promote reconciliation and compromise rather than taking sides. The problem is the outside fearmongers, warmongers and otherwise zealots interfering on both sides.
“…a country at peace…”
For how long?
Who knows? The threats come from numerous sources, e.g. the culture wars, uncontrolled immigration and the idiot elites who think they know best destroying democracy and succumbing to corruption beyond my imagination. The signs are that we are already in a war but have yet to fight back.
And your additional comment even more! I did give it a thumbs up just to put you into positive ratio….:-). I agree with your sentiment though. This one issue has absolutely divided an otherwise solid community and pretty much in a similar fashion to what the old corronie rubbish did to society as a whole.
Divide and Conquer
“The greatest victory is that which requires no battle.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Thanks
Yes it does. They are antisemitic, so that what anyone supporting them supports – the depraved, sadistic slaughter and butchery of people – babies and infants too – for no other reason than they are Jews.
I disagree.
Just because you support the same thing that someone else supports doesn’t mean you support everything that other person supports.
That’s a logical fallacy.
Palestinians may be anti-semitic (all of them?). But they may have attacked Israel because they are fed up of being confined to Gaza.
So one might agree.with them not being locked up in Gaza, but not with their general hatred of Jews, if they indeed hate Jews (and not just Israel as a nation).
It’s also entirely possible that the reaction of many Palestinians to the attacks was “oh shit, our lives are just about to get a whole lot worse.”
“anyone supporting them supports – the depraved, sadistic slaughter and butchery of people – babies and infants too – for no other reason than they are Arabs”.
There, fixed it for you.
Just look at the score since 1948.
What do you think bombs do to women and children.
That’s ok in your eyes is it.
Can’t you even begin to imagine what shrapnel does to kids, but hey, bombing people back to the stone age isn’t as bad is it, maybe because they’re brown and Muslim?
No, they killed them because they were Israelis living lives of relative luxury and/or partying a few miles away from their deprived open air prison.
Wrong, evil and disgusting but antisemitism is not what this is about.
For Hamas, that is exactly what it is about. The Gaza residents are forced to ‘support’ Hamas, because Hamas fought and threw out their opposition within Gaza who currently run the Palestinian West Bank. Some Palestinians support a 2 state solution, Hamas are in favour of the obliteration of Israel and the killing of all jews worldwide. Their founding charter has that written in black and white.
Of course, the Semitic people include many arabs and some other groups, from a DNA point of view they are pretty much indistinguishable.
I have no idea how one could fix the whole situation, given that the roots of it are ancient and the middle east was divided up in a very badly mistaken fashion by Sykes-Picot in 1915, but having the entire area destabilised by the Sunni-Shia Islamic schism fomented by the mad mullahs in Iran is not going to make anything easier.
I have always spoken up for Palestine and Palestinian people, my father’s attitude and what he said on the matter way back in the 60s influenced me deeply. That said, I was shocked and sickened by the rationalising and often downright denial of the barbarity of the terror unleashed on innocent people in Israel. Exemplified by the refusal of the BBC to class it as a terrorist attack.
While I do not agree with the war we have to accept that Hamas must have wanted this final showdown for what they did was an act of the most extreme provocation.There is something going on here that is very strange. I am appalled by war, by collective punishment, it makes me despair. My heart goes out to all the innocent people suffering so terribly.
You talk of a one state solution. It would have to be as Hamas has ruled out a two state solution but how can that be a solution? Jews do have a right to live in Israel but do not have the right to oppress Palestine. There was one large numbers of Jews in countries like Iran and Iraq but no more. Minorities do not fare well in Islamic States.
Who knows how this will play out. I cannot see it ending well for anyone.
I’ve been supporting the Palestinians for many decades and nothing has changed my mind.
Hamas are just one element of the Axis of Resistance against the occupying army of Israel.
Palestinians in vast numbers support their liberation from the brutal apartheid Israel.
Resistance fighters have always committed atrocities against their occupiers.
The occupiers in this instance own governments around the world, own the banking system, own Hollywood and own the media so they can manipulate the narrative.
40 beheaded babies was a downright lie as was many other “reported” instances.
The number of deaths is more important than the nature of the deaths.
Israel has killed far more Palestinians than the other way round.
Palestinians have tried non-violent resistance in the past but were met with Israeli aggression killing hundreds.
Israel in the past 2 weeks have killed 6,000+ most of whom were women and children compared to the 1,400 Israelis killed by Hamas.
Supporting the plight of Palestinians doesn’t make one an anti-Semite.
1) Not surprisingly as it is their land.
2) A two state solution with ALL Palestinians.
3) Hopefully it will be a Palestinian victory.
1) Might is not always right.
2) Abbas is the president of the State of Palestine and the Palestinian National Authority of Palestine.
3) Might is not always right.
And yet, you wouldn’t mind might if it was in the Palestinians’ favour; you’ve stated as much above. At any rate what is right or wrong or fair is irrelevant; it’s the reality that matters. Highlanders were driven from their homes in preference for sheep which were more profitable to landowners. What did they do? They migrated. Change is an inevitable fact of life. I have children; if I was in Gaza my priority would be to get the hell out and make a better life elsewhere. My children are my priority. Of course, now it’s nigh on impossible to do so but the option to migrate (to Syria, Jordan, etc) for a better life was there in the past, and many Arabs took that opportunity. As so many people from different countries and cultures have done over the centuries.
Why should Palestinians be forced out from their own land just because the thuggish Israelis are mightier?
Borders are just lines on a map which move from side to side and up and down with history.
It is not fictitious borders which define a country but the people.
Homes, family, farms and industry of millions of people cannot all move to the neighbouring, safe haven country of choice.
It is easier to move the lines on the map to accommodate the “will of the people”.
Laws and countries can be created by precedent.
Nato countries “invaded” The Balkans where new countries were created.
A defined country of Palestine, which existed before, should be reinstated in half of current day Old Palestine (current day Israel).
The current population within Israel is 50/50 between Arabs and Jews.
That land has been contested for millennia when other ‘thugs’ persecuted and drove the Jews out. Arab nations have tried numerous times to take it from Israel and failed; occupied territories were what Israel was cajoled into giving the Palestinians despite Israel defending and retaining the land. And even when Israel withdraws in 2005 still the rockets come. Trust is absent on either side which is why any notions of redrawing lines or two-state solutions fixing this problem are naïve. Why should they move? Because it makes for a better life. I don’t like what’s happening in my own country and that’s why we’re moving overseas. My family’s welfare comes before any allegiance to a country, nation or land. And yes borders do move, through conflict. And as we both agreed above, the land belongs to the victors.
No country of Palestine ever existed (except maybe in early biblical times). This area used to belong to the Ottoman empire for centuries and was conquered by English troops in 1918. The English conquerors chose to bring in (parts of) the Jewish diaspora. These became a state in their own right/ might through a sequence of largely successful wars. That’s how stuff works in the real world. Right doesn’t figure here, except insofar its derived from what some God reportedly said at some point in time in the past.
“Zionist Denial of Palestine’s name is a distraction intended to divert the debate away from settler colonialism and into a discussion of historical records and centering it on ancient biblical narratives. Zionism, being a Western colonial and modern project, directly employs and always insists on conversing about their state project through the biblical narrative, being a key taproot for Western epistemology, political and legal discourses. Zionism insistence on this framing allows for control of the debate by setting the framework then all concerned about Palestine are forced to enter into a dead-end discourse the tools and instruments of which are utilized to erase Palestine and Palestinians”
https://medium.com/palestinetribune/zionist-myth-1-palestines-name-was-made-up-by-the-romans-e45ae42bdbd8
It was always going to be a difficult one to resolve, and it appears well outside Sir Kiers range of diplomatic skills to do so. So, how do you ride two horses at the same time, going in different directions.?
By being a suit full of nothing with no ideas or opinions, this should be easy for Starmer.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/united-nations-resolutions-ceasefire-gaza-blocked-washington-its-allies/5837760
Biden’s mafia again.
There’s no Labour like Old Labour.
Antisemitism stamped right through the core.
Councillors and local religious leaders surely don’t have any authority for having an own foreign policy. At least not, if they genuinely believe to be British subjects and not just people with British passports because that’s convenient for them.
Perhaps the Labour Party should rebrand itself the Islamic Party.
But then again it might put off the gay and gender loons.
Their billionaire donors and their cllimate fanatical useful idiots won’t mind either way.
What a strange coalition of interests that make up the Labour Party.
Probably the best thing they can do is just keep quiet and wait for the Conservative Party to adopt all their horrible policies so that the public vote the Conservatives out and Labour back in to, you know, have a “change”.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/incredibly-face-investigation-terrorism-defence-funds-appeal-craig-murray/5837805
Craig Murray being persecuted by plod once again.
Can someone explain how this article relates to the objectives of the site as described by Toby Young:
So the Daily Sceptic includes sceptical articles by disaffected journalists and academics – including citizen journalists and independent scholars – about a range of public policies that are supposedly based on science or data or evidence, where ‘the Science’ is being invoked as a source of unassailable authority, but which often appear to be rooted in a covert political agenda. The idea is to challenge the new powerful class of government scientists and public health officials – as well as their colleagues in universities, grant-giving trusts, large international charities, Silicon Valley and the pharmaceutical industry – that emerged as a kind of secular priesthood during the pandemic, providing not just ‘scientific’ advice but moral guidance, too. And to challenge them on their own terms, much like the group of citizen journalists who successfully rehabilitated the ‘lab leak’ hypothesis after it had been designated a ‘conspiracy theory’ in the pages of the Lancet. (Scientific and medical journals will also be in our crosshairs.)
It seems to be turning into a straightforward right wing political forum with no particular emphasis on science or data. No harm in that but it is a crowded field.
Yes, the act of scepticism seems increasingly absent.
Eventually you run out of the space on the head of that pin that the angels are supposed to dance upon.
I think this article comes under:
‘The Daily Sceptic, like Lockdown Sceptics, will campaign against this climate of Maoist intolerance that is sweeping through our most important institutions and companies – and that includes taking the Mickey out of woke gobbledegook.’
It is highlighting the ‘Maoist intolerance’ that exists within some parts of the labour party.
But other articles highlight the intolerance, a breathtaking display of self gratification by the British establishment, of the covid inquiry, headed by Heather Hallett, ennobled by May and appointed by Bunter.
That there is ‘Maoist intolerance’ within parts of the labour party is documented:
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/The-Forde-Report.pdf
Couldn’t care less..sorry but this is as unimportant in the scheme of things as the ‘BBC won’t call them terrorists’..it’s virtual signalling, flags in your bio, please don’t misgender me, and use my pronouns ….. bollocks..
Its a bit of political fluff to keep the proles occupied…
.
Totally unimportant tripe, that won’t change anything and that has no impact on anyone.. ……nobody cares except the London luvvies…
Bread and circuses….while the world burns……
So people say they are sick of tories. But I would rather fix the tories than have this beady eyed parasite that clings onto anything like a lifeboat if he thinks there are votes in it. No principles, no guts, no anything except scavenging like a hyena does to steal the leg of an antelope and run away from the lions with it.
Your understated critique of the man is spot on.
But I’ve long since stopped listening to the “vote for us, ‘cos the other lot’ll be much worse”. plea. Suspect I’m not alone in this.
The Tories can’t be fixed. Better (as with the NHS and the rest), to let it die and work to put something FFP in its place.
If you are a capitalist you ddon’t suddenly vote for socialists because you’re not happy with the capitalists at that moment. —You fix the capitalism first. I would have thought the first part of your name would indicate you already know that. —One way to fix the tories is to stop them being just another bunch of socialists and I would have Braverman as leader after they lose in 2024.
Loving this. Starmer completely caught between a rock and a hard place. With good luck, he will be crushed, the amorphous blob of vacuity that he is
A ceasefire. And perfect for Hamas, and no way for Israel. What a moron