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Is China Behind the Lockdown Madness?

by Eugyppius
14 April 2022 10:22 AM

We’re publishing a guest post by blogger “Eugyppius”, where he reviews Michael Senger’s Snake Oil: How Xi Jinping Shut Down the World, which spies the schemes of the Chinese Premier and his party behind all the lockdown madness of the past two years. This post was originally published on Eugyppius’s Substack account, which you can subscribe to here.

I will never tire of typing that the whole question, of how lockdowns became the default response to Corona, is very hard. Some points are nevertheless clear. There was, without a doubt and in the earliest stages, a kind of lockdown cabal, a small group of people in different countries who worked to bring some simulacrum of the Hubei response first to Italy and then to most of the globe. An insidious, coordinated information campaign accompanied their efforts, and this should warn us against easy assumptions that they had good intentions.

On social media, a swarm of manipulative pro-lockdown accounts promoted containment and attacked any prominent politician who tried to steer a moderate course. Michael Senger was among the first to point out that this campaign was operated, in part, out of China. His crucial September 2020 article on the Chinese promotion of lockdowns on social media for Tablet Magazine won him wide renown. He had over 100,000 followers on Twitter before the platform banned him; he now writes the New Normal on Substack, and you should all subscribe to him.

In his Tablet article, throughout his time on Twitter, and in his new blogging incarnation, Senger has developed a lean, straightforward thesis that aims to cut the Gordian knot of what has befallen us. He lays responsibility for lockdowns at the feet of the Chinese Communist Party, and in particular Xi Jinping. In the strictest sense, he is surely right here: None of our countries would have locked down, if China hadn’t done so first and convinced the World Health Organisation that mass containment was effective.

Senger’s thesis, however, is more precise than that. He sees lockdowns as a manifestation of fang kong, Mandarin for “prevent” or “control” – a broader, ideologically loaded concept that extends to things like the isolation or internment of political dissidents and mass surveillance. He writes (p. 44):

Xi’s lockdown of Wuhan had been inspired by the CCP’s pet hybrid of public health and security policy: Fangkong, the same policy that inspired the reeducation and ‘quarantine’ of over one million Uyghur Muslims and other minorities ‘infected with extremism’ throughout Xinjiang and Tibet.

Xi Jinping, in Senger’s telling, then leveraged extensive Chinese relationships with political, media and academic actors throughout the West, to establish lockdowns as a “global policy” in “one of the most audacious psychological operations in all of recorded history” (p. 42).

Senger sets the virus itself to one side; it is for him a minor matter, compared to the great edifice of the lockdown information war. He proposes, along with some other dissident theorists, that SARS-2 might have been circulating as early as 2018, in which case Wuhan is unlikely to the be city of origin: “[T]he CCP could have picked literally any city to shut down for purposes of its lockdown fraud. Xi Jinping [chose] Wuhan because there was a lab there” (p. 99). The lab leak thus becomes, in the Sengerian thesis, above all a propaganda distraction:

The Wuhan lab had indeed played a key role in lockdowns. But not necessarily as a source of the coronavirus, which proved to be fairly ordinary. Rather, the CCP had used the Wuhan lab as a decoy to misdirect their opposition. … The Wuhan lab had been engaged in ‘gain of function’ research on coronaviruses in bats … Worse yet, the Wuhan lab had lax security for one engaged in this kind of research. During gain-of-function research, so the story went, one of these coronaviruses had leaked out, causing mass death in Wuhan about which brave whistleblowers like Li Wenliang had to warn the world. But the CCP had covered it up, allowing the supervirus to spread. World leaders had to implement lockdowns and other cutting-edge measures on the advice of their best scientists and health officials. This was the narrative that preoccupied the intelligence community throughout 2020 and 2021. They knew about the virus’s unique furin cleavage site. All they had to do was prove SARS-CoV-2 came from that lab, and China could be held responsible. … It was, indeed, the perfect setup. Exactly as Xi Jinping intended.

Li Wenliang, the ophthalmologist admonished in early January for spreading rumours on WeChat of a novel SARS-related outbreak in Wuhan, is also in Senger’s view an invention of the lockdown propagandists. Intriguingly, he notes that “the first time the world ever heard the name ‘Li Wenliang’ was on January 27th 2020” (p. 40), when the Hubei lockdown was just four days old and the internet was brimming with mysterious, since-debunked videos of sudden virus death in Wuhan.

Senger also sees early PCR test development as essentially fraudulent (pp. 67–72), and the collapse in Wuhan infections after February 2020 in Hubei as a lie. “China had simply forged its data and quietly adopted a herd immunity strategy” (p. 77).

As they did so, Xi fed the world bogus medical advice calibrated to increase SARS-2 mortality (p. 105):

The CCP’s initial ‘medical guidance’ from Wuhan was designed to inflict death in three ways: 1. Excessive use of mechanical ventilators, killing patients outright; 2. Moving still-sick patients to nursing homes, ostensibly to clear up hospital space; and 3. The deprivation of lockdowns themselves, increasing deaths from other causes. That initial spike in deaths from China’s ‘medical guidance’ would be used as proof of COVID-19’s danger, sowing the fear that would justify further lockdowns.

The result was that a lot of Western media personalities and politicians began insisting on the necessity of lockdowns to eradicate SARS-2 and praising the Chinese response. Many of these characters had either Chinese ties, a history of strange public Sinophilia, or at the very least highly curious timing in their advocacy and public statements. When they finally got their lockdowns, these failed to work, which was unsurprising given the “evidently fraudulent scientific origins” of such interventions (p. 86).

Senger concludes (p. 140) that:

Lockdown was never about a virus. It was about sending a message: That stripped of all disguise, the illusion of virtue, competence, and commitment to human rights among the Western political class was nothing but conformity with easily-subvertible norms and institutions passed down by prior generations. Since the original egalitarian propaganda of communism no longer fooled most people, the system had to be rebooted with a new lie that would justify the indefinite suspension of the rule of law. Xi had found it in the form of a ‘virus’.

Ordinarily, in reviews, one tries to give an idea of the contents without giving the whole argument away, but I feel comfortable making an exception in this case, because Senger has outlined all of these ideas himself on Twitter, and because even a close summary is no substitute for this book. You really should read Snake Oil for yourself: It’s a lean, enjoyable and highly stimulating monograph, and its 590 end-notes (accounting for over 25% of whole book) are full of valuable references – many of them to long-forgotten articles from the earliest days of the pandemic.

Senger’s radical scepticism has tactical utility. It presses the Chinese origins of mass containment to the most extreme conclusion possible, leaving lockdown advocates in an embarrassing position, with their awkward histories of publicly extolling Chinese success against the virus. It also has the virtue of insisting that SARS-2 is just not that special. As I have argued many times, this is an important truth, and the only thing that has a hope of disarming the lockdowners and the vaccinators in the longer term.

Some will nevertheless hesitate to accept the entirety of Senger’s view that “Everything is Fake” (the title of his sixth chapter), and here I want to explore what a slightly less absolutist version of his thesis might look like.

I’ll start by ceding a little ground to SARS-2: It is not a magical virus, and it is not worth the expenses we have incurred in our war upon it, but we can solve a few problems if we posit that its genetic similarity to SARS-1 was a big reason for early hysteria, and that indeed it is deadly for some people. Once we have gone that far, Chinese motivation becomes easier to account for. Some would say that the Chinese, at the start, were responding to what they feared was another SARS-level outbreak, perhaps one that really had leaked from the Wuhan Institute of Virology sometime in mid-2019. (I don’t think SARS-2 is likely to be much older than that; nobody can find earlier evidence.)

For a long time, I tried not to talk about the lab leak hypothesis, because I thought it fuelled pro-lockdown rhetoric, and this is surely one of the reasons Senger tries to sideline it here. I would nevertheless suggest that it’s a key piece of the puzzle, especially when it comes to explaining elite overreaction to Corona both within China and beyond. Nor is it an accident that the establishment press first entertained the thesis as the vaccination campaign kicked off and the vaccinators were struggling to submerge everyone in fresh terror of Corona. I don’t think that means SARS-2 is a bioweapon or that its genome carries very much evidence of ‘engineering’. It’s just a SARS-related bat coronavirus that has been optimised to infect humans.

We might also make some concessions to Chinese bureaucratic corruption and scientific incompetence, both widely attested. Cast in this light, the whole matter of Li Wenliang’s censure and his brief media cameo at the end of January 2020 begins to look like a Chinese repudiation of a prior policy to cover up the Wuhan infections. We don’t have to banish the doctor from existence, necessarily, although his death is highly suspicious.

As for skulduggery surrounding Christian Drosten and his early role in developing a SARS-2 PCR test development: The tests do detect the presence of the virus, after all, so perhaps it is not precise enough to dismiss this work as fraudulent. Instead, what we seem to be seeing here is an effort to throw together a means of diagnosing SARS-2 infection that would have credibility in the West and with the World Health Organisation. This was perhaps done, by laundering prior Chinese research through Drosten, a Western virologist known for his role in developing PCR tests for SARS-1 .

Many theses of Chinese motivations in promoting lockdowns to the West are possible. We may have to admit that we don’t know, and that our ignorance has two facets: 1) We don’t know what the Chinese were trying to do, and 2) we don’t always know what the small lockdown-happy cabal of western scientists and bureaucrats who imposed their policies upon us were trying to do.

In the absence of hard evidence, incompetence and a desire to save face might be the simplest path. By late February, after Western media outlets had spent weeks chiding China for their harsh authoritarian measures, Chinese officials had figured out that SARS-2 wasn’t that bad. The risk at that point was that no other countries would do very much about SARS-2, and they’d be none the worse for it. So, to save face, China needed the WHO to endorse their lockdown at the very least; ideally, some Western nations would even imitate their approach. The Chinese pulled what strings they had, even providing secret advice to Western public health officials and social media cover for their politicians.

Senger is surely right about the extensive influence China wields across Western political, media and academic institutions – much of it hidden or unexplored. For many key lockdowners, though, precise China ties remain obscure, and I think we will have to consider that at least some of them had other motivations. In some cases, as with Tomas Pueyo, we seem to be looking at incidental figures whose feverish internet theorising was promoted by rigged social media algorithms at the right moment. Epidemiologists and modellers like Neil Ferguson, on the other hand, have personal and professional motivations. Virus panic is how scientists like them get funding and become important. Of course, Senger would counter that China knew this and exploited these professional concerns, and he’d be right.

It’s a testament to Senger’s thoroughness, that he finds space (pp. 54-56) for the early history of lockdowns in Germany, and the suspicious roles played by Otto Kölbl and Maximilian Mayer in helping to draft a pseudoscientific ‘strategy paper’ full of fake modelling projections, designed to convince members of parliament and the press that lockdowns were the only way.

I’ll retell that story here, because it helps me think about lockdowns and the limits of our knowledge:

Directly after Neil Ferguson released his insane models predicting massive SARS-2 mortality in England, on March 16th, Christian Drosten and Lothar Wieler met with then-interior minister Horst Seehofer, and urged him to find a way to extend the German closures. Seehofer then convened a team of alleged experts to model the trajectory of the pandemic in Germany and the likely effects of necessary countermeasures. The team included Kölbl, a Germanist; and Mayer, a junior professor of international relations. Both were China admirers with no qualifications in virology or epidemiology, and they proceeded to inform the team from a position of authority, at a key moment even providing secret, ready-translated material straight from China. They were plainly cut-outs for hidden and anonymous Chinese advisers.

But here are the important things we don’t and may not ever know:

• The proximate cause of this little fraudulent strategy session was Ferguson’s model, and the proximate cause of Ferguson’s model was the Italian lockdown announced on March 8th-10th. The proximate cause of that lockdown, in turn, was regional containment and mass testing in northern Italy, organised by Walter Ricciardi from February 24th – exactly the day that the WHO held a press conference endorsing the Chinese lockdown in Hubei. Did Ricciardi stumble into lockdowns by accident, after mass testing uncovered community spread? Or was the intent to lock down already on February 24th, and the purpose of testing only to find cases to justify such an extreme measure? If so, why? [Editor’s note: the leap in Italy’s reported daily death toll on March 8th to 133 from 36 the day before, and then to 168 on March 10th, with many ICUs filling to capacity, is likely to have played a large role in the Italian panic in those days.]

• Christian Drosten was only in a position to lean on Seehofer because of the prominence his state media Corona podcast had won him. He started in that role at the end of February. Who put him there, was it related to his PCR test work from January, and which parties was he representing when he pushed for longer lockdowns on March 16th?

• How did German bureaucrats establish contact with Mayer and Kölbl? Whose idea was this bizarre strategy of laundering Chinese advice through transparent low-level academics? Was similar advice provided via the same process to other countries, and if so, who mediated those relationships?

The Chinese snake-oil peddlers are an important, early thread in this tapestry. Even if they are not the whole cloth, they are damning enough. Western epidemiologists and public health bureaucrats ditched their own longstanding mitigationist plans in favour of a mass containment fantasy that they copied wholesale from China. They then sold these unsupported improvisational measures to Westerners with Chinese help, via a deceptive and malicious propaganda campaign. This is a central aspect of the Corona pandemic, and Senger has done more than perhaps any other person to bring it to the notice of the world.

Tags: ChinaChinese Communist PartyCovid originsLockdownsPropagandaWuhan

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198 Comments
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Dale
Dale
3 years ago

I’m almost onboard with the spectre of a super-virus being a cynical ploy, on the part of China, to strengthen its standing by weakening the world. My only problem: why then is China spiraling back into lockdown madness, while the rest of the world moves on, if it doesn’t believe the virus is real and uniquely pernicious ?

58
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stewart
stewart
3 years ago
Reply to  Dale

I don’t think the Chinese government orchestrated all this. The CCPs main concern is keeping power. They fear chaos and disorder above all else. At the very beginning they tried to sweep the whole thing under the carpet. When they saw that didn’t work and that doctor in Wuhan got traction and attention on WeChat they moved to plan b and went ballistic. The criticism of the government early on was loud and was growing quickly.

China doesn’t have a universal healthcare system and even a relatively small increase in sickness from an epidemic could transform into chaos very easily, particularly in our social media world.

I see all this lockdown insanity as a response by established power to the threat that has emerged to them from social media. They find it harder to control narratives and are responding with very authoritarian measures to try to keep control.

This coronavirus crises has been a godsend for governments everywhere desperate to have more control at a time when they felt that control was slipping.

Last edited 3 years ago by stewart
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Dale
Dale
3 years ago
Reply to  stewart

For me, genuine stark terror is the only reason why they persist, in lockdown mania, when they have to recognize that the rest of the world is moving on.

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TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  stewart

China doesn’t have a universal healthcare system 

They’ve got THAT going FOR them. The UK NHS made things much worse.

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Star
Star
3 years ago
Reply to  stewart

“I see all this lockdown insanity as a response by established power to the threat that has emerged to them from social media. They find it harder to control narratives and are responding with very authoritarian measures to try to keep control.”

Or, more vulgarly, as Theodore Roosevelt put it, “If you’ve got them by the b*lls, their hearts and minds will follow”?

I don’t agree at all with the notion that control was slipping or perceived to be slipping. If someone uses “social media” a lot, the rulers have already got the poor soul’s mind under control. It’s a case of “They think they are free”. That doesn’t mean they are free. Similarly a man might think he’s a woman.

It’s quite interesting though that lockdown doesn’t feature in the explicit recommendations that came out of “Event 201” (October 2019), or at least in those which are publicly available.

We know there is in effect a world government, because there’s no way that policies would have been so similar in every country in the world if that wasn’t the case. What share the Chinese elite has in that government, or whether ultimately it’s centred in China – those are open questions.

Last edited 3 years ago by Star
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RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Star

We know there is in effect a world government, because there’s no way that policies would have been so similar in every country in the world if that wasn’t the case. What share the Chinese elite has in that government, or whether ultimately it’s centred in China – those are open questions.

Personally, I don’t think it’s anything to do with a global government. All our governments are experimenting with ‘gain of function’ call it what you will.

I don’t think anyone knew what escaped from the Wuhan lab, but governments knew the potential, so they panicked.

Simple as that. They can’t row back because they would be forced to admit their reasons for overreacting.

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sskinner
sskinner
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Panic tends not to be so uniform.

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sskinner
sskinner
3 years ago
Reply to  stewart

As China has been a top down autocracy for at least 3,000 years their perception of what chaos is, is narrow and acute. This is why having come up with several key inventions they were unable to capitalise on these. They did invent bureaucracy which they used to organise and keep control, which kills any chance of individuals exploring different ways of doing things. In the west, at least up until 2019, creative spontaneity was not considered chaos, but that was firmly removed as we aped the CCP with their ‘excellent’ but futile methods for trying to control an airborne virus. No creative spontaneity was permitted. We can be sure that the World Government that quite a few elites are working towards will be the polar opposite of a world of sovereign individuals.

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JXB
JXB
3 years ago
Reply to  Dale

With perhaps the notion that since the West copied their first round of insanity, it might copy the latest?

Worth considering time horizons: Americans 24 hours (one News cycle), Europeans 5 years, Chinese 1 000 years.

“The proverb ‘A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.’ is first found in the Tao Te Ching, which is a classical Chinese Taoist text.” 

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amanuensis
amanuensis
3 years ago
Reply to  Dale

China is showing the world what the next step in the Covid madness is going to be.

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Annie
Annie
3 years ago
Reply to  amanuensis

Not here it isn’t.

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-1
RW
RW
3 years ago
Reply to  Dale

Because an authoritarian leader with demigod ambitions surrounded by people who
not-so-secretly love to sit in his chair can’t admit to an epic blunder of this kind. As someone wrote in an article whose title I’ve forgotten (paraphrase) Chinese pupils have to memorize Xi’s thoughts although he isn’t exactly famous for having any.

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David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago
Reply to  Dale

Davos- Fauci- Daszak- Schwab-Gates

What makes you think we are ‘moving on’?

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AngusAttitude
AngusAttitude
3 years ago

I don’t really care if China or Roger Rabbit was the ‘inspiration‘. I hold all home grown politicians, academics, medicos, teachers media etc who promoted the policy of lockdown and segregation as 100% culpable.

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B.F.Finlayson
B.F.Finlayson
3 years ago

In the strictest sense, he is surely right here: None of our countries would have locked down,

Seriously? If my neighbour jumps off the roof after drowning his kids then the whole street is excused for following suit? Just how many ‘our PM is blameless’ can one website muster in a day? ALL Western leaders are culpable opportunists, all should be tried accordingly, and the only dictum that has ever applied is Lord Acton’s.

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Julian
Julian
3 years ago
Reply to  B.F.Finlayson

I’ve lost count of the number of educated, “intelligent” people (they have much higher IQs than I do, I’m a dummy) have said to me “we had no choice, everyone else was doing it”.

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Marcus Aurelius knew
Marcus Aurelius knew
3 years ago
Reply to  Julian

As a certain Good Emperor once said,

The aim of life is not to be on the side of the majority, rather to avoid finding oneself within the ranks of the insane.

Footnote : his son had him killed.

Last edited 3 years ago by Marcus Aurelius knew
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tom171uk
tom171uk
3 years ago
Reply to  Marcus Aurelius knew

I am a big fan of Marcus Aurelius but I have never seen any reference to his son (Commodus?) having him killed. Can you tell me more?

2
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Francis64
Francis64
3 years ago
Reply to  Julian

This is so true.

Its funny but whenever I mention Sweden and places like Florida that didn’t follow the rest of the world into lockdowns and where they remained pretty much open and carried on as normal throughout most of the covid hysteria that was taking hold in the rest of the world the response is just a blank shoulder shrug.

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John Dee
John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  Francis64

…the response is just a blank shoulder shrug.

Probably due to a sore arm from all those injections.

12
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RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

A single shoulder shrug would surely be a shrugett?

2
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B.F.Finlayson
B.F.Finlayson
3 years ago
Reply to  Julian

The already casually corrupting influence of peer pressure has been carefully calibrated, standardised, maximised and ultimately weaponised over the last two years. Is it any wonder that Musk has made a bid to buy Twitter outright?

Last edited 3 years ago by B.F.Finlayson
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RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  B.F.Finlayson

The already casually corrupting influence of peer pressure has been carefully calibrated, standardised, maximised and ultimately weaponised

By Boris and his mob?

LOL, give me a break. They couldn’t organise a shag in a brothel.

1
-1
JXB
JXB
3 years ago
Reply to  Julian

You have to have a high IQ to be really stupid.

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Annie
Annie
3 years ago
Reply to  JXB

I disagree. Having a high IQ doesn’t stop you from being really stupid, but the naturally stupid, i.e. those with low IQs, hugely outnumber the other kind of stupid, and are as easy to push around and butcher as sheep.

8
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John Dee
John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  JXB

Judging by the number of PhDs and such who seem to have swallowed the whole biscuit, their proven intelligence does not stretch to asking simple questions of themselves.

12
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RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

A PhD signifies nothing more than hard work, blood sweat and tears. IQ has nothing to do with it.

5
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John Dee
John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  Julian

It’s the Lemming Manoeuvre. Yes, you’ll drown, but you won’t be out of step with your peers.

10
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tom171uk
tom171uk
3 years ago
Reply to  Julian

That’s how groupthink works.

3
0
JXB
JXB
3 years ago
Reply to  B.F.Finlayson

A good question is, why did Western Governments follow China and not Sweden?

Even if we allow (and I don’t) they didn’t really know to begin with (they did) and panicked, by mid-April it was certainly clear from the observed data that the epidemic (not a pandemic), tge viral activity was waning, and the progress of the virus and fatalities was no worse/better than Sweden. And that fact could be observed every week to date.

So I do blame the lot of them, and borrowing from Corporal Jones, we should give all of them a fair trial before we take them out and shoot them.

25
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John Dee
John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  JXB

I’m prepared to believe that they thought Sweden was wrong.
What I don’t understand is why they abandoned an existing pandemic plan as soon as there was a pandemic.

10
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RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

The WHO pandemic plan was designed for a natural viral outbreak.

What escaped from the Wuhan lab was a gain of function virus and no one had a clue what it could do.

The pandemic plan was abandoned because no one had a clue what they were dealing with, but understood the potential.

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Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Diamond Princess.

13
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Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago

This just goes to show that once you enter into conspiracy land you can ‘prove’ anything at all with the same basic evidence.

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-29
mariawarmth
mariawarmth
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Calling things conspiracy undermines open discussion of ALL possibilities that is the only way to thrash out the truth as much as we can. It is our moral responsibility to encourage that freedom of speech especially in times of a grave crisis. We need to use words like conspiracy more responsibly . People have been shown during this crisis, that they are afraid of their own shadows and their mass compliance is shameful but it is partly caused of their being frightened of being called a conspiracy theorist. We must discuss all possibilities no holes barred it us incumbent upon all of us. So what are you conspiracy ideas please share here without fear or favour. You are welcome .

27
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Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  mariawarmth

It has been predicted for years that one day, another coronavirus would come out of China. Now it’s happened.

Whether this virus originated accidentally from Nature, or whether China messed up in its Wuhan lab, neither explanation requires any kind of government or secret elite conspiracy.

People claim it was all China’s idea, or the US, or a global elite, using the same evidence (or rather lack of it).

The ‘evidence’ can’t be that strong if people can reach such opposite conclusions with it. We’ve had plagues and epidemics throughout history and I fail to see what’s so different about this one.

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Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

“I fail to see what’s so different about this one.”

The responses of governments and other bodies.

23
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Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

Lockdown is an extreme version of quarantine, and quarantine has been tried many, many times in the past.

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Libertarianist
Libertarianist
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Quarantine involves “locking down” INFECTED people.
Not healthy and uninfected people.

Changing the accepted meaning of words is par for the course.

See “vaccine” and “herd immunity” and “disease case” for other examples.

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Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  Libertarianist

Past quarantines did lockdown the healthy as well as the infected. The scale is greater today because they have the means, but the principle is the same.

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Marcus Aurelius knew
Marcus Aurelius knew
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

But at those times, there was actually an indiscriminately deadly virus going around…

Simple analysis to ascertain how Life Expectancy was reduced proves that.

Fingal, as long as you fail to understand how ridiculously normal Sars-Cov-2 was (and how easy it was for anyone numerate to prove this pretty quickly), you’ll continue to make claims that the period March 2020 to the present has a historical precedent.

Last edited 3 years ago by Marcus Aurelius knew
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Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  Marcus Aurelius knew

You’re just proving my point:

  • You don’t believe covid was a serious threat
  • You don’t think lockdowns worked
  • You don’t think vaccines worked

And probably half a dozen other views too, that I don’t know about.

None of these three views have any causal link. Just because you held one view, it didn’t follow you also held the others.

1
-5
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Which past quarantines?

3
0
mariawarmth
mariawarmth
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Lots to look at here Fingal. Lots of links. Are you sure they are the same?

3
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Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

No it isn’t.

And it wasn’t just lockdown.

There was the deliberate programme to terrify the population.

There was no attempt to see if the disease could be treated with combinations of existing treatments.

A decision was taken to inject as many people as possible with experimental gunks before they could possibly have been shown to be either safe or effective.

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Dale
Dale
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

But to my knowledge, not the healthy. And certainly not on this scale.

7
0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  Dale

That’s not correct – they did quarantine whole households and sometimes communities, even if other members weren’t infected yet.

They did as much as they were capable of at the time.

Last edited 3 years ago by Fingal
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-10
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Name them.

4
0
Moist Von Lipwig
Moist Von Lipwig
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Lockdown is used in prisons. Imprisoning the healthy is a mediaeval superstition.

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0
RW
RW
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Lockdown is something which happens in prisons overnight (and reportedly, also sometimes as disciplinary measure): Inmates are locked into their cells until the next morning.

7
0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RW

It’s got itself a new meaning. That happens to words.

2
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RW
RW
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

That’s done to words when employed by propagandists.

9
0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RW

Well, it mostly happens for random reasons, out of usage or because we need a new term for something new.

If lockdown was selected for propaganda reasons, then I’d fire the person who came up with it. Obviously it sounds negative.

Last edited 3 years ago by Fingal
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John Dee
John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Ah, but it was to SAVE LIVES and PROTECT THE NHS, so was made to sound positive.
Which it probably did, if you didn’t develop cancer and other serious ailments while the NHS was AWOL.

10
0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

Yes, but lockdown is a negative word, so a lousy choice for propaganda.

Anyway, in all honesty it’s not the most important issue at stake.

1
-9
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Lockup is a less negative term?

What term would you use?

4
0
John Dee
John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

And the existing WHO advice at that time was that lockdowns don’t work for pandemics. Another existing principle that was mysteriously overruled.

6
0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

Leaving aside the detail of the arguments against lockdown, my point is that the technical reason for objecting to lockdown (that allegedly it doesn’t work) is totally unrelated to the technical arguments against vaccines (that they are unsafe or whatever).

There shouldn’t be a high correlation between both viewpoints.

The fact that there is, strongly suggests a different external cause – for example, a belief in a global elite – is the real reason people are ready to take these viewpoints.

Last edited 3 years ago by Fingal
1
-11
Superunknown
Superunknown
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Or the very simple reason that, one lockdowns don’t work, and two neither do the jabs.
The factual evidence of both these points are right here and now, no matter which source you want to look at.
Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?
And moreover, neither was needed in the first place, as was pointed out two years ago.

6
0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  Superunknown

My car might not work because the transmission has failed. At the same time my broadband might not work because the cable has been cut. The two causes are unrelated, and there’s no need to include a global elite as part of the explanation.

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RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Fingal’s new obsession, to add to his ‘conspiracy theory’ obsession is, ‘global elite’.

If an argument can be diverted by it he’ll use it, no matter how pathetic .

5
0
Superunknown
Superunknown
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

So you bought a faulty car, and somebody got sick of reading your drivel on the Internet?
I agree no correlation.
But how does that tie into lockdowns and vaccines being implemented and enforced by a government, and other governments doing exactly the same thing?
Who decided that was best practice?
Why was it not discussed?
Why was the previous plan for pandemics not implemented?
Why such drastic measures for something so trivial?

7
0
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

There is no ‘allegation’ lockdowns don’t work, the fact is Sweden, at least proved lockdowns don’t work. The same is now being proven in China, yet again.

If they worked, they should have by now as the Chinese were welding people in their houses and are now killing cats and dogs in a desperate attempt to prove they were right. But two years + into the pandemic, a city of 20m+ people is still locked down.

‘Vaccines’ don’t work. We know that. They don’t stop transmission and there can be no evidence they lessen symptoms or extend life in any way. No one on earth can prove suffering is alleviated by mRNA drugs.

There can be no correlation between lockdowns and vaccines, they are entirely unrelated. What on earth are you talking about?

There is, without a shadow of a doubt, a global financial elite. Their influence on the pandemic is, however, very debatable.

You’re just throwing about red herrings as usual.

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0
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Self quarantine is the natural response of a sick person. It was the promotion of asymptomatic carriers (a deliberate and malicious government tactic to mislead the public) that did the damage.

Asymptomatic carriers of anything are as rare as hens teeth.

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0
mariawarmth
mariawarmth
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Hey . All of what you say definitely underpins why we have to expose and unpick all ideas. There are lots of the things you have said that need addressing.
This is good place to look. There are lots of archived links to do with things you have listed.
Was it natural? Of not ?
Who, why and how could they predict.
What have our goverments been doing? With this information.
Was it China’s idea?
Was it US? Was it WHO?
Was it alliances of all or a convergence? And so on.
Yes it as extensive and riddled as your list. I hope you are the type who will help us all discuss, inquire share and try find out.
Sadly we can’t leave this to Governments, MSM journalists they have shown their conflict of interest cards and double down tactics to save their unworthy derrières.
Thankfully a collective of well meaning inquiring citizens who are either practising multi_ disciplined professionals or not; have already, collated for some time answers with evidence to some of the things you list. I hope we will continue with this and you can too.

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0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  mariawarmth

I have looked at lots of links on this site. That’s why I joined – to see another point of view. And there are interesting articles here.

But so many members seem to be encumbered with an assortment of conspiracy theories, especially around some version of a global elite, which heavily undermines the credibility of the rest of what they say.

There are reasons to argue against lockdown. There are totally separate reasons to question the effectiveness of some vaccines. But there shouldn’t be a strong overlap of people who think both of those things, because the arguments are unrelated.

Yet many members in effect distrust absolutely every method of fighting the virus except for fringe treatments with no medical approval.

That shouldn’t happen.

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NickR
NickR
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

There is a correlation between believing that lockdowns were unnecessary & that vaccines are unnecessary. If you believe that there was nothing so special about covid & that we should have ‘lived with it’ from the off, then you object to every measure, especially those that are coercive, that are intended, invariably with no/scant evidence, to control it.

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0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  NickR

Ok, if that was your reason (that covid didn’t warrant such a response) then I agree there’s a correlation. But there isn’t a natural overlap between arguing that lockdown doesn’t work, and that vaccines are unsafe/ineffective or some other variation.

There’s no connection between the behavioural effects of lockdown and the alleged danger of vaccines and/or their efficacy.

In particular, arguments about the safety of vaccines should be stand-alone from all other arguments. The vaccines could be unsafe at the same time as lockdowns being efficacious. There’s no connection.

Last edited 3 years ago by Fingal
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Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

What lockdown and jabbing everybody with untested gunk have in common is that they are experiments which involve ditching established policies on the basis of no evidence whatsoever.

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0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

Untrue in both cases. Draconian lockdown/quarantine has occurred in the past. And new drugs have been rushed through under duress.

In any case, you’re missing the point. The technical argument against lockdown (that it doesn’t actually control transmission) is totally unrelated to the technical argument against the new vaccines (that they are unsafe or ineffective). There’s no inherent reason why anyone should take both positions – unless the real reason they like these viewpoints is because of some thing else.

For example, belief in a global elite.

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Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

“Draconian lockdown/quarantine has occurred in the past.”

When and where? And the established policy in the UK before March 2020 clearly didn’t involve lockdown. On the basis of exactly what evidence was that policy jettisoned and pretty much the opposite put in place?

“And new drugs have been rushed through under duress.”

You seem not to know what “under duress” means.

But rushed injections of new technology in response to a disease as trivial as this? And intended to be repeatedly injected into everybody?
You’re seriously claiming that this was established UK government policy before March 2020?

Last edited 3 years ago by Nearhorburian
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0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

The word quarantine comes from the Italian for 40, which was the 40 day period new arrivals to Venice had to wait to prove they were free of plague. In an age of relative lack of mobility, travel restrictions were a realistic tactic.

In England during some of plague outbreaks they forced people to stay in a household if one person was infected.

Famously, the village of Eyam voluntarily isolated themselves.

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RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

FFS.

Fingal now relying on ‘evidence’ from when the basics of hand washing hygiene wasn’t understood to make his pathetic point. 🤣

3
0
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Untrue in both cases. Draconian lockdown/quarantine has occurred in the past. And new drugs have been rushed through under duress.

Name them.

3
0
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

What a lot of bollox.

3
0
mariawarmth
mariawarmth
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Hi . I am glad you have joined this site and you are looking at links. I can only speak for myself I don’t get bogged down when there are lots of different discussions like here, it’s good.
There has always been an elite in all societies in history if they were benevolent or malevolent it is there now to see. We don’t have that luxury of looking back so vigilance and holding those to account in these groups, by lawful due process is both integral and essential to this forum as it is not separate but as a result of converging global elites following each other at best or with more maline intent.
The elites of old were not global but due to the world now being small they are very much a group, clan, allies, cabal or what ever collective description you wish . Just be cautious you don’t unwittingly disregard the importance of their contribution to the making and the catastrophic outcomes in this crisis. They are not sidelined actors they are the principle players but in the real world. Stay on this site in the future it is a good source of solid journalism . Rare indeed.

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0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  mariawarmth

I am glad you have joined this site

Many thanks, although I think you may be the only one…

0
-1
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

But so many members seem to be encumbered with an assortment of conspiracy theories

Here we go again, Fingal’s favourite term, ‘conspiracy theory’.

There is a global financial elite. Of that there is no doubt. Klaus Schwab has written at least one book on their desire to implement his concept of a New World Order.

Which of this conforms to a conspiracy theory.

By your standards the conspiracy theories you believe in, which have all been debunked are numerous:

Lockdowns work – Otherwise known as a conspiracy theory.
Masks work -Otherwise known as a conspiracy.
Asymptomatic transmission is a threat – Otherwise known as a conspiracy.
Vaccines prevent transmission – Otherwise known as a conspiracy.
Vaccines alleviate symptoms – Otherwise known as a conspiracy.
Partygate is a conspiracy theory – Otherwise known as a conspiracy.
Boris is a great PM – Otherwise known as a conspiracy theory.
Biden’s cognitive decline is a conspiracy theory – Otherwise known as a conspiracy.
Hunter Biden’s laptop is a conspiracy theory – Otherwise known as a conspiracy.
Fake Ivermectin Lancet study – Oh look, a conspiracy.

4
0
Superunknown
Superunknown
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

https://youtu.be/pVVPAjMvBhQ
Jabs and lockdowns aren’t linked?
According to Fauci they are, in fact according to him the only reason for lockdowns is to jab people.
Oh dear, yet another “conspiracy theory” that has become fact.
So lockdowns were used as a stick to beat people until they get jabbed, for a virus you don’t need to be vaccinated against.
“That shouldn’t happen”

1
0
RW
RW
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

That there wasn’t one, perhaps?

2
0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RW

Yes, but the argument that there was no epidemic (if that’s what you want to say) completely contradicts all the arguments that say it was deliberately created/exploited by the US/China/global elite.

Yet so long as you can all rally round the flag of ‘down with MSM’, then you think you’re all on the same side.

1
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RW
RW
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Why this? There was never something which met the clinical definition of pandemic (or epidemic) which was in use prior to 2020.

People in cities, and especially people in Chinese cities where everyone has an air condition, live in shared housings with shared ventilation systems. Hence, forcing them all to stay at home for much longer than they usually would ought to create an ideal breeding ground for a deadly, communicable disease transmitted via aerosols. But no such disease materialized itself.

5
0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RW

I’m sorry, I’m not sure what you mean here.

0
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RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Yet so long as you can all rally round the flag of ‘down with MSM’,

The incoming DG of the BBC pledged to address clear bias within the BBC.

But the MSM isn’t biased. 🙄

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0
John Dee
John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

It has been predicted for years that one day, another coronavirus would come out of China.

Indeed it was, and there was even a plan in place to deal with it…. And then, they abandoned it without even giving it a go.
Do you even wonder why that happened?

5
0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to. But governments make bad decisions all the time.

1
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Superunknown
Superunknown
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

All of them? All at the same time? Really?

0
0
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

……and I fail to see what’s so different about this one.

As you usually fail to see what’s staring you in the face, this comes as no surprise.

No one had a clue what the gain of function virus that escaped from Wuhan could do, but being that every government in the world is engaged in bio-weapons research, they all understood the potential.

As it turns out, as with almost anything designed and built by the Chinese, it fell over and their gain of function, thankfully, proved pathetic.

As it happens, for once we agree on one thing, a global government is unlikely, but not because it’s as you describe it, a conspiracy theory (but you describe everything you don’t understand as a conspiracy theory) but because it’s largely the theory of one persuasive fantasist, Klaus Schwab.

His fantasy is no conspiracy theory as he’s written books about it, which makes you look like an idiot (again) for continually hand waving about conspiracy theories.

5
0
JXB
JXB
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

No you cannot. Evidence can be tested. It’s what happens every day in our Courts.

3
0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  JXB

You’d hope so. But what passes for evidence with conspiracy theorists has a lower threshold. Look through the answers in this thread and others, and you can see people speculating wildly about motives. It leads them to making entirely opposite conclusions about whether China is the ‘real’ danger, or the US, or a global elite, or whatever.

However, all these groups can still come together and think they are supporting each other, so long as they all agree to disbelieve anything that comes out of so-called ‘official’ channels.

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amanuensis
amanuensis
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Your statement remains correct without the central clause.

This just goes to show that once you enter into conspiracy land you can ‘prove’ anything at all with the same basic evidence.

We’ve seen much of this over the last 2 years (and prior).

7
0
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  amanuensis

There’s always the Trump route – ‘alternative facts’.

Someone tells me it’s obvious the US is behind everything. Someone else says it’s the Chinese. Someone else says it’s a global elite.

Can’t be that obvious.

0
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Superunknown
Superunknown
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Typical myopic view of the easily led.

Let’s look at some facts about this “pandemic” shall we?

1) No open discussion, scientific or otherwise.

Anyone who has been vocal about anything apart from the “official narrative” has been demonised and shut down. If the “official narrative” was so correct, then why not prove the dissenters wrong in an open forum, using science and facts?

2) Mass propaganda drive.

Governments have spent billions on advertising their message, all for the “sake of public health”. Using fear, intimidation, outright falsehoods, smear campaigns and phycological conditioning in order to get the public to do their bidding. Without a shred of actual evidence to back any of it up.

3) Freedom

Billions of healthy individuals worldwide locked up or had their freedoms curtailed for the sake of a virus, one which was identified as having a low IFR very early on by many esteemed scientists. See points one and two why this was not widely reported. Lockdowns were clearly going to have a negative impact, and the tip of that iceberg is just beginning to emerge.

4) Lack of transparency

The amount of times “the science” has been cited then recanted during the past two years has been ridiculous. Quite literally, often taking opposing stances.
But throughout, “the experts” have implemented or steered the course of society without actually explaining why or presenting evidence to support their actions.
But at the same time not disclosing who or where this information is coming from, who they are paid by, or conflicts of interest.

5) Data and information suppressed

From the very beginning, there has been information that has either been kept from the public, or just not reported on. Much of this data and information was derided as “conspiracy theory” only to be proven correct or at least plausible at a later date, see the great Barrington declaration as a good example.

6) Lies and disinformation

The authorities have misinformed and outright lied constantly about every aspect of this “pandemic” from fatality rates, infection rates, immunity, data manipulation, vaccination, and even breaking rules that they had set, if indeed the virus was so deadly then why were the various politicians, scientists, celebrities and talking heads not heeding their own advice?

7) Burden of proof

The sceptics and even non-sceptical among us have compiled an overwhelming number of facts during the last two years, many of which scuttle “the official narrative” and are beyond any reasonable doubt that they are the only logical conclusion to come to.
Certain other ideas are merely conjecture or opinion, however you can never unearth facts that are hidden without employing those traits.
The same can’t be said for “the official narrative”. Which is slowly but surely sinking due to the rotten timbers from which it was constructed.

Please provide some “basic evidence” I’m wrong by all means.

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0
Judy Watson
Judy Watson
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Why are you back here? Who are you working for?

2
-1
twinkytwonk
twinkytwonk
3 years ago

I see a lot about the speed of the development of the PCR test used for covid. Once you have the genome sequences of the desired specimen it is literally a a few hours work to design multiple primer pairs and probes plus another couple of days to test and optimise. Just to be generous the results is 5 days work at most and that’s for one person.

3
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Dale
Dale
3 years ago
Reply to  twinkytwonk

The PCR is designed to detect segments of a mental construct. For a pandemic, all you really need is PCR and propaganda.

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twinkytwonk
twinkytwonk
3 years ago
Reply to  Dale

A mental construct? It detects a genetic sequence . I did the bloody things for 10 years!

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Marcus Aurelius knew
Marcus Aurelius knew
3 years ago
Reply to  twinkytwonk

I suspect Dale is making the point that the process by which a genetic sequence is deemed to be important enough (to build a test to detect it) is the thought of a human mind, i.e. a mental construct.

Last edited 3 years ago by Marcus Aurelius knew
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0
Dale
Dale
3 years ago
Reply to  Marcus Aurelius knew

And to add: does not require an actual virus.

2
0
GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago
Reply to  twinkytwonk

Unfortunately there are a lot of people on here who think viruses do not exist.

You will here them come out with the same rubbish that “it hasn’t been isolated” or “it’s a computer programme”.

It is easier for them to follow the ideas of a few charlatans than delve into the complicated world of modern virology.

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mishmash
mishmash
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Modern virology is a fraud. That’s the problem.

Last edited 3 years ago by mishmash
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GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago
Reply to  mishmash

It’s too complicated for you to understand.

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mariawarmth
mariawarmth
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Try !!!
A kind request.

5
0
mishmash
mishmash
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

A real pathogen doesn’t require a global propaganda campaign.

Last edited 3 years ago by mishmash
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0
GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago
Reply to  mishmash

SARS-CoV-2 is a new real pathogen but no worse than flu and that is why it needed “a global propaganda campaign”.

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mishmash
mishmash
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

A global propaganda campaign which includes telling the population there is a virus. This is going nowhere fast, much like Covid.
Don’t pick and choose which lies to believe when the whole thing is a con.

Last edited 3 years ago by mishmash
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GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago
Reply to  mishmash

SARS-CoV-2 has been proved to exist.

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Dale
Dale
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

It has been proven to be believed with all one’s heart, soul, mind and strength.

6
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Dale
Dale
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

You don’t need a virus for a global panic. Only PCR and propaganda (fanning into flames the religion of germ theory).

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mariawarmth
mariawarmth
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

I have not noticed a LOT of people who think the virus does not exist!?
I have not studied this virus’s and are you saying that a virus full genome or it’s footprint does not exist. And please answer as this is a genuine query. And more importantly do virologists in the west know what this is and have they shared in the open scientific community or is there obfuscation and manipulation. A genuine ask. Anyone?

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0
GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago
Reply to  mariawarmth

SARS-CoV-2 has been laboriously “whole gene sequenced” over 10.2 million times in labs around the world.

It definitely exists, is no worse than flu but has been used as an excuse to bring in draconian measures of control by the Global Elite.

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mariawarmth
mariawarmth
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Thanks.
Flu should only be an excuse to go to bed look after yourself and get plenty of Vit D … drink plenty of fluids. When I had covid I followed as much was possible Dr Malones guidance through his health alliance guide which is not dissimilar to the above . I am okay. ! 🙂

2
0
Dale
Dale
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

You can find a clump of unusual dung, presuppose it’s unicorn dung, sequence it 10.2 million times and …

3
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Dale
Dale
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

“On almost all ancient schemata, contagion, whether in the strict sense of a disease transmitted by touch or in the wider one of a disease of contiguity, was only rarely invoked to explain the origin of an illness, and even when it was, it formed only one part, and not necessarily the most important part, of a complex of overlapping alternatives.”
Aldershot, Ashgate; Contagion: perspectives from pre-modern societies

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GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago
Reply to  Dale

It’s a history book.

Modern virology has come a long way since then.

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Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Can it explain how people who tested negative for the virus came down with the disease weeks later in Antarctica?

3
0
GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

Viruses are in the atmosphere.

0
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Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

So why are there no recorded example of people being infected while walking their dogs?

The atmosphere is huge and there are winds: how likely is it that you could inhale enough to be capable of getting the disease?

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0
GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

Viruses are everywhere.

0
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Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Doesn’t answer my question.

And “viruses are everywhere” as an explanation for infection would suggest that I should have had flu. But somehow I never have, and I’m 61

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0
GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

Some people catch viruses others don’t.

The more healthy you are the less likely you will come down with an infection.

There is no hard and fast rule.

1
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RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Some people catch viruses others don’t.

Everyone catches virus, it’s what the body does with them that’s important.

2
0
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Viruses are everywhere.

In an oven at 180ºC?

5
0
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Viruses are in the atmosphere.

At -40ºC?

4
0
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

SARS-CoV-2 has been laboriously “whole gene sequenced” over 10.2 million times in labs around the world.

Why would it need to be gene sequenced 10.2 million times? Surely once would do?

I suspect you’re confusing one thing with another.

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GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Because there are thousands of variants.

It has been genome sequenced 10,269,037 times and uploaded to GISAID.
https://www.gisaid.org/

0
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Dale
Dale
3 years ago
Reply to  mariawarmth

It only exist in the form of a mental construct.

5
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twinkytwonk
twinkytwonk
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

All people need to do is go to the ncbi(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/) and read a few tutorials. If people want to do further reading the ncbi hosts a vast number of undergraduate level text books regarding virology and biology in general.

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0
mishmash
mishmash
3 years ago
Reply to  twinkytwonk

Why would I trust them when we know the lies told?
They said Omicron was a new variant when you and I both know damn well they just lowered the PCR testing criteria standards, which were already bogus to begin with.
They are liars and I don’t trust anything they tell me about this alleged virus, which they have failed to prove exists for over 2 years.

They = medical/pharma establishment in general.

Last edited 3 years ago by mishmash
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Dale
Dale
3 years ago
Reply to  twinkytwonk

Similarly, you can just read the Book of Mormon is you don’t believe Mormonism is true.

2
0
paperclip
paperclip
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

The virus is relatively unimportant.
The Terrrain is all!

5
0
GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago
Reply to  paperclip

I quite agree.
An unhealthy environment will make one more likely to catch a virus.
But many who believe in Terrain Theory also believe that viruses do not exist.
They have been brainwashed by Lanka, Kaufman, Cowan and Bailey and people like David Icke and Alex Jones who support their fringe view.
They like to take money from the gullible.

2
-1
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Define “An unhealthy environment”

But many who believe in Terrain Theory also believe that viruses do not exist.

How many, precisely?

Brainwashing comes in many forms. Believing stomach ulcers were caused by stress is now exposed as brainwashing. The solution for stomach ulcers emerged from ‘fringe’ science. Indeed, every scientific discovery breaks with the consensus and therefore is ‘fringe’ when first hypothesised.

1
0
Dale
Dale
3 years ago
Reply to  paperclip

The problem is that netherworld, that some terrain theorist inhabit, where it is necessary to keep the body healthy so as to fend off non-existent deadly nanoparticles.

0
0
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Dale

A healthy body is only a part of terrain theory.

The biggest part is that no one understands why two people exposed to the same condition, at the same time, respond in different ways.

1
0
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  paperclip

A Kendrick aficionado.

0
0
SAGE LIARS
SAGE LIARS
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Virology is made up bollocks if that helps, as is the Germ Theory

1
0
GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago
Reply to  SAGE LIARS

Very eloquent.

People like you think David Icke is right and every single virologist in the world is wrong.

Modern virology is too complicated for you so you cling to this totally debunked weird belief that viruses do not exist.

1
-1
Jon Garvey
Jon Garvey
3 years ago

Surely one needs to factor in the series of pandemic exercises over a number of years employing the range of now-familiar lockdown strategies and vaccine mania originating in US intelligence, NAIAD, the Gates Foundation and so on, as detailed in Robert Kennedy’s book? And those policies were first, apparently, formulated under G W Bush, via Homeland Security, not long after 9/11.

At least, government scientists and relevant politicians across the world were primed for such a response – at worst, some or all were complicit. The SAGE members who were in on Fauci’s “kill the lab leak” conference call (Vallance and Farrar) certainly do not come across as duped by Chinese science.

One advantage of seeing these older strands (which may indeed be seen in the context of the West’s attempts to “tame” China to its cause) is that it makes sense of the sudden transition now from a public health propaganda/control program with China as a partner to a proxy war propganda/control program with China as an enemy. The same guys appear to be driving the ship and coercing or bribing the national pawns. My take on these things here.

15
-1
Lockdown Sceptic
Lockdown Sceptic
3 years ago

The Power of Behavioural Science and Propaganda | Bob Moran & Julie Ponesse 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giF3S2xN6TQ
Dr. Julie Ponesse is joined by political cartoonist Bob Moran. Bob was fired from his job at the Telegraph due to his views on the current mainstream narrative. 

Stand for freedom with our Yellow Boards By The Road next events 

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Stand in the Park Sundays from 10am – make friends & keep sane 

Wokingham Howard Palmer Gardens 
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South Hill Park, Rear Lawn, RG12 7PA

Telegram http://t.me/astandintheparkbracknell

4
-4
FrankFisher
FrankFisher
3 years ago

We really should hang all of the people in the West who forced this on us, but as I am a humanitarian I will accept giving them lethal injections instead.

I mean, additional lethal injections.

35
-4
JayBee
JayBee
3 years ago

Jordan Schachtel also has some viewpoints on that. https://dossier.substack.com/p/what-is-motivating-the-ccps-shanghai
I have been convinced that a big part of Covid was a Chinese ruse to weaken the West economically.
Cui bono? always suggested that.
But admittedly, the suicidal Shanghai lunacy doesn’t quite fit with that thesis anymore.

5
-1
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  JayBee

I have been convinced that a big part of Covid was a Chinese ruse to weaken the West economically.

Seriously? The Chinese have been crucifying their country.

Good luck if your’e a politician releasing a contagious pandemic expecting it to affect only the people you don’t like.

Politicians can barely tie their own shoelaces far less concoct a global conspiracy between them.

0
-1
Moderate Radical
Moderate Radical
3 years ago

Jeffrey Tucker has an interesting piece:

In mid-February 2020, we know for certain that Fauci, Francis Collins, and Jeremy Farrar were obsessing about the possibility of a lab leak from Wuhan. During that period, the World Health Organization worked with the National Institutes of Health and many other nations to organize a trip to China. This… took place February 16-24, 2020, two weeks after Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus of WHO had told the world that China as [sic] “setting a new standard” for virus response. All involved in this junket came back with glowing praise for how China handled the virus during its month-long lockdowns in Wuhan.

…

We know now that the strategy did not work. China did not contain SARS-CoV-2. What is happening in Shanghai today illustrates that. The lockdowns are more brutal than ever, effectively wrecking one of the major financial capitals of the world, and with no prospect for eradication in this country or any country.

And yet here we have officials from the NIH, presumably with the approval of Fauci, taking a trip to China, visiting several cities, meeting untold numbers of Communist Party members, and returning with glowing praise for how the government handled the virus. This trip might have been what set up the lockdown model for the entire world. 

(my bold)

https://brownstone.org/articles/what-happened-on-the-junket-to-china-in-february-2020/

8
0
Marcus Aurelius knew
Marcus Aurelius knew
3 years ago

I received this in my email inbox from eugyppius’s substack yesterday. I’d highly recommend subscribing, if you haven’t already done so.

Senger makes a very compelling case.

6
0
Backlash
Backlash
3 years ago

I cannot stand China or the Chinese. Lying, sneaky, nasty pieces of work. I wish we would loosen our ties with them once and for all.

18
-8
Bobby Lobster
Bobby Lobster
3 years ago

It never really mattered to me from the beginning that it was “created” in Wuhan, and was either let out accidentally, or on purpose.

What did happen, was that China let it out, on purpose, so that the rest of the world would “benefit”.

I was always suspicious that supposed-scientists in the West all seemed to be taking the same route. We do know that Chinese money has infiltrated our Universities and institutions.

Do we now have to wait until Putin backs down in Ukraine to begin to pay back China. At least their own insane lockdowns are stalling their exports to us at the moment. Let’s find alternatives.

6
0
mishmash
mishmash
3 years ago

Shanghai drone:
“Please comply with Covid restrictions. Control your soul’s desire for freedom. Do not open the window or sing.”

Have you ever heard anything so disturbing?

35
0
Hopeless - "TN,BN"
Hopeless - "TN,BN"
3 years ago
Reply to  mishmash

From March 2020, the vile and dishonest stuff coming out of the Government, our very own Achilles Johnson and his myrmidons Whitty, Vallance, Ferguson, the NHS, the lying and obsequious MSM and the rest of the whole rotten crew, bears a considerable and close resemblance to the Chinese version of the same.

25
0
mariawarmth
mariawarmth
3 years ago
Reply to  mishmash

Awful. Horror. In reality not in a film.

9
0
Backlash
Backlash
3 years ago
Reply to  mishmash

Barry Manilow comes close

6
0
GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago

Very early on China accused the US of releasing SARS-CoV-2 into China as a bioweapon.

If you put yourselves in China’s mind set that they were under attack by the US it explains their lockdown actions.

Hysterical reporting by Western legacy media enabled the unelected Italian government to follow suit.

Once Italy had done it others followed.

This was either all pre-planned OR it created a momentum of it’s own for a virus no worse than flu for some people and of no risk to the vast majority.

10
0
mariawarmth
mariawarmth
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

I have wondered if China released it on their own people who they treat abysmally anyway, what’s a bit more persecution and more ; to then pretend to blame US as they had a plan to destabilise the west. Which they have succeeded on doing now just wait for round two.? Arriving as we speak.. Shanghai imprisonment.

3
0
GlassHalfFull
GlassHalfFull
3 years ago
Reply to  mariawarmth

The origins of SARS-CoV-2.

I have always been suspicious of the pangolin and a bat sex party zoonotic theory and find the “created in a lab” theory much more likely.

I also find the accidental escape from a lab theory doubtful and a full blown economic attack by rogue elements of the US against China much more likely.

Fortunately, Ron Unz has been articulating the same view from the very start.

Here are some of his bullet points and a reference to his comprehensive articles.

https://www.unz.com/announcement/going-super-viral-and-an-important-rumble-video/

1)    Over the decades America has spent $100 billion creating the world’s largest biowarfare capability.

2)    In 2017 Trump brought on board Robert Kadlec, who since the late 1990s had been America’s leading biowarfare advocate.

3)    In 2018 and 2019 mysterious viral epidemics devastated China’s poultry and pork industries, severely damaging China’s food supply.

4)    From January to August 2019, Kadlec ran the Federal/State “Crimson Contagion” exercise in which our government officials practiced their strategies of protecting American society from infection by a hypothetical dangerous respiratory virus that might suddenly appear in China.

5)    In late October 2019, 300 American military servicemen visited Wuhan to participate in the World Military Games.

6)    In late October/early November, Patient Zero in Wuhan became infected with Covid. The virus spread invisibly until the Chinese government discovered its presence near the end of December. The Chinese government finally reacted in early/mid-January.

7)    In early January 2020, America assassinated Iran’s top military leader, with the retaliatory Iranian missile strike nearly leading to war.

8)    In mid/late January 2020, the Wuhan virus suddenly jumped 3,500 miles to the Holy City of Qom, soon infecting Iran’s top political elites, with a number of them dying as a consequence. By February, Iran had become the second global epicenter of the Covid outbreak despite having a negligible Chinese population, while the later outbreaks in Italy and Spain were in locations with hundreds of thousands of Chinese.

9)    In early March 2020, the Iranian government publicly accused America of having launched a biowarfare attack with Covid against Iran and China, with a formal complaint being submitted to the UN. However, virtually no Western media reported those accusations, so almost no Americans became aware of them.

10) In early April, four intelligence sources told ABC News that a secret November DIA report had described a “potentially cataclysmic” disease outbreak taking place in Wuhan, but this had been ignored by the Trump Administration. Israeli TV confirmed that Israel and NATO allies had received that report, which had been produced “in the second week of November.” But according to best current estimates, at that point only perhaps a dozen people were starting to feel a little sick in Wuhan, a city of 11 million.

9
-1
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

A fabulous list of logical progressions of science, politics, intelligence and international cooperation.

If the world could actually coordinate this over a virus, imagine what they could do if they turned their attention to global peace, Nuclear Fusion or interplanetary transport.

Our politicians failed to change road signs from MPH to Km ph when the country went decimal in the 70’s.

They couldn’t organise a common currency across Europe.

But somehow, coordinating with friendly and hostile countries across the globe, a pandemic collusion emerged.

God give me strength.

3
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loopDloop
loopDloop
3 years ago

Here’s a fun game you can play at home. Go to this site:
https://www.usaspending.gov

Scroll down to COVID19 Advanced Search Filter.

Now enter into the search FY2012 under Financial year.

And also BLACK & VEATCH into the Recipient section. Now do the search.

Brings up a bunch of results. Sort them by start date, scroll down and find the one starting 9/20/2012. There it is, with Award ID 0004. Click on that Award ID number.

Now scroll down and click on the Sub-Awards tab.

Till you find this entry:

19-6192
LABYRINTH GLOBAL HEALTH INC
11/12/2019
$369,511
SME MANUSCRIPT DOCUMENTATION AND COVID 19 RESEARCH

Look at the date. 12th of November 2019. Contract was awarded for COVID 19 Research.

Here’s the page if you want to go straight there:

https://www.usaspending.gov/award/CONT_AWD_0004_9700_HDTRA108D0007_9700

Any questions?

Hat tip to DailyExpose.co.uk.
https://dailyexpose.uk/2022/04/13/us-dod-contract-covid-research-ukraine-nov-2019/

11
0
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

Proving what?

Other than there was covid19 research being conducted in a Wuhan laboratory.

Which is transparently clear.

Perhaps it was called Covid ’19’ for a reason?

0
-1
Matt Mounsey
Matt Mounsey
3 years ago

I think it’s a mistake to see Corona policy as a strategic ploy by nations trying to overturn other nations. In today’s world of globalised finance, nations are like corporations. They are convenient constructs for a global financial class to establish total control over the world.

In the last 30 years, China’s role has been to separate the West’s manufacturing base from it’s consumer base through our massive financing of its infrastructure, currency manipulation to make its exports artificially cheaper and environmental and other regulation to make the West less competitive. The result has been a West and an East that are completely dependent, not so much on one another, but on the rulemakers that have created the situation.

China does not have any independent will and mind of its own that separates it from Western globalism. It doesn’t really even have an internal economy or capital markets of its own. Try enforcing a contract in China. Try getting any kind of corporate governance disclosures from its companies.

We’ve become sadly similar in the West. How many companies are just trying to automate or control all the processes in the economy without workers and without providing any value? How many companies are just financial shell games? How much of the real economy is controlled by the government and so called companies that depend on it?

This situation was always unsustainable. China has huge demographic problems and so do we. Both of our governments know this and know that there’s no future of promised security for either of us. So it’s very interesting that they released a genetically engineered virus and gene modifying “vaccine”, started dismantling the food supply chains, banning domestic energy production and moving towards a currency based on carbon credits rather than oil, transitioning to a war economy to keep the lockstep going.

Anyone who wants to see who’s really behind the curtain would do well to look into the careers of John D Rockefeller – the oil man turned environmental activist and vaccine philanthropist. Or the Rothschilds who pioneered our current central banking system. But please don’t try and tell me it’s the Chinese. I wasn’t born yesterday.

Last edited 3 years ago by Matt Mounsey
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-1
Occams Pangolin Pie
Occams Pangolin Pie
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt Mounsey

Agreed. If you want an actual Snake Oil salesman look at William Rockefeller Sr.

8
0
Matt Mounsey
Matt Mounsey
3 years ago
Reply to  Occams Pangolin Pie

Yeah as you say. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree and John D just found a way to better present his fathers concoctions.

I should have mentioned that it’s the Rockefeller Foundation and the Rothschild Pirbright Institute that have their grubby mits all over the Digital IDs the CBDCs and the gene therapy vaccines.

Last edited 3 years ago by Matt Mounsey
7
-1
RW
RW
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt Mounsey

In the last 30 years, China’s role has been to separate the West’s manufacturing base from it’s consumer base through our massive financing of its infrastructure

I suggest a much simpler explanation: Around the 1970s, the victorian machinery which had fuelled British industrial production for about a century finally started to break down. The people who got stinking rich by owning these factories had no more intentions to modernize them than they always had. Instead, the built new factories in locations with cheaper labour costs as soon as they state allowed them to do that.

That’s arguably sort-of a conspiracy theory but I like it as it’s simple.

3
0
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  RW

Occam’s razor.

I worked alongside a government business development agency about 10 years ago. UK businesses which had set up shop in China were relocating back here in droves because the machinery China was using was obsolete British stuff we had abandoned decades ago.

Guess why a lot of the Chinese stuff we buy falls apart?

Lots of western organisations in China do prosper though, because they put the money into plant, equipment and training. The Chinese are not stupid and are very industrious. Think Apple, Lenovo and lot’s of other tech businesses.

Scotland’s globally recognised ship building went to Korea and Sweden because of industrial unrest and uncompetitive pricing.

If you want to compete with the Chinese industrially, you have to pay Chinese wages. There is no alternative.

The only person who got this was Margaret Thatcher who figured that if we can’t compete with our hands, compete with our minds.

Last edited 3 years ago by RedhotScot
2
0
Matt Mounsey
Matt Mounsey
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Why do you think you have Chinese wages sustained at such a level for decades? Because currency manipulation and Communism allow them to do so. They tried it with the Japanese until they got annoyed with Central Bank window guidance messing with their economy. But it’s easier when you have a Communist regime.

1
0
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt Mounsey

So it’s very interesting that they released a genetically engineered virus and gene modifying “vaccine”, started dismantling the food supply chains, banning domestic energy production and moving towards a currency based on carbon credits rather than oil, transitioning to a war economy to keep the lockstep going.

I was with you up until this point.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, the British government introduced decimalisation in the 70’s, but we still have MPH signs on our roads.

A common European currency couldn’t be organised.

Yet we are expected to believe that every country on the planet colluded over a virus to control the world.

OK, I’ll run with it.

Now all I need to know who’s going to be the boss. The fantasist Klaus Schwab? Bill Gates? Geoff Bezos? Elon Musk? George Soros?

Or might Joe Biden, Trump, Xi, Putin, Ardern, Macron or Trudeau demand the job?

If the Rockefeller’s are so omnipotent, wouldn’t it be them? Why haven’t they done it by now, being that they control every bank in the world anyway? In which case, what would be the point of them changing the status quo and risking their position?

When someone can explain to me who is going to be King of the world, and how, I’ll consider their hypothesis. Until then, wake up folks, the elite cabal wanting to rule the world are feeding from your insecurity………

0
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Matt Mounsey
Matt Mounsey
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Why would you conflate the organisation of world depopulation with administration of speeds on domestic roads? Do you think they’re organised by the same government bodies? That governments are doing their best but somehow it all ends up as a cockup because that’s just the way things are?

In your other example, do you see that the euro has worked very well for certain financial interests while somehow not managing to work for the common peoples interests? Funny that isn’t it?

The agenda to deindustrialise and reduce the world’s population has been laid out in Agenda 2030 for a long time. You somehow think it’s difficult to conceal the plans to release a virus? It’s already well known that the virus was constructed from genetic engineering and the world population has been coerced into further genetic engineering through the “vaccination campaign”. All you need is an authoritarian client state to release it and deny access to further inquiry.

As for your desire for a Bond villain you’ve seen on TV who may be “in charge” I’m afraid I can’t help you there.

1
0
mishmash
mishmash
3 years ago

Shanghai residents are being put through a new phase of dehumanising restrictions to see how they respond. This is all orchestrated. There is no virus involved.

Last edited 3 years ago by mishmash
18
0
NeilofWatford
NeilofWatford
3 years ago

I’d say ‘is the Pope Catholic?’ but he probably isn’t.
The CCP created and released the virus. The Italians ‘got away with’ their lockdown so the British WEF gang seized the chance to do it here.
I complied for about a month, then ignored every rule.
I’ll never bow the knee again.

22
0
Occams Pangolin Pie
Occams Pangolin Pie
3 years ago

Without the lockdown(s) the vaccine could not have been touted so effectively. Simples.

Of course it’s the subsequent lockdowns that are of greatest importance and need study. Lockdown 2 preceded vaccine rollout, which conveniently happened in the winter of 20/21. Max fear = max uptake. It’s simple. Sell tickets for the Beatles US tour by showing hysteria at the airport on every news outlet.

Followed by the ‘oh so effective’ booster rollout in, can you guess, the winter of 21/22. These are the key moments – when time had allowed everyone bar those operating with malice aforethought, to realise that lockdowns were causing horrific wholesale damage. No one gets off, on the subsequent lockdowns, even if one is generous enough to allow the lemming defence on the first one.

Lockdown in China was theatre, people toppling like felled trees.

2) we don’t always know what the small lockdown-happy cabal of western scientists and bureaucrats who imposed their policies upon us were trying to do.

So yes, we do know this. One of the glaringly obvious underlying reasons is that Big Pharma owns most of the scientists and bureaucrats. They move as a herd, to do otherwise takes a spine. They are small people, cowardly people and entirely culpable.

18
0
Occams Pangolin Pie
Occams Pangolin Pie
3 years ago
Reply to  Occams Pangolin Pie

China is an easy target. The gain of function research originated in the US with Fauci and his cronies. The Snake Oil gang are not Chinese.

7
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paperclip
paperclip
3 years ago

Snowball effect & chaos theory are very helpful when seeing how mass panic became the greatest infection of all, in turn, forcing an illogical reaction from weak leaders like Boris because there was no rational public reaction or strategy apart from individual voluntary restraints on social contacts. Sweden were the absolute heroes of course.
But so effective was voluntary restraint, that combined with the normal seasonal effect, the Gompertz curve was already flattening and diminishing a week before the harsh lockdowns were implemented – it was always a case of too much, too late.

6
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007point5
007point5
3 years ago

#TheGreatCovid19Fraud #IBlame the #National_Socialists …
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TMARjHP9MM3eDMZ2oFQPf04LWRyKYWg-/view

2
0
BJs Brain is Missing
BJs Brain is Missing
3 years ago

“None of our countries would have locked down, if China hadn’t done so first and convinced the World Health Organisation that mass containment was effective.”

Tell that to the poor people of Shanghai.

Last edited 3 years ago by BJs Brain is Missing
2
0
Richard Austin
Richard Austin
3 years ago

Lockdowns were the baseline policy of every war game run by The Gates Foundation. The last of which was only weeks before worldwide insanity kicked in. It was called Event 201. To claim that we followed China / Italy is absurd and is a lie. The UK Government was involved in every Gates war game over many years.

13
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Moist Von Lipwig
Moist Von Lipwig
3 years ago

No, they are not, the teaching of German philosophy for more than a century, of which green ideology is a part, is behind this

1
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JXB
JXB
3 years ago

A good start-point is that Covid science is identical to climate science: both rely on projections, make claims that are unfalsifiable, ignore data from observation, promote the marginal as the mainstream, select and misrepresent scientific understanding and theory, silence all dissent.

Lockdown is identical to Net Zero in its misanthropic ideology, to reduce Human activity, consumption, mobility, nutrition and health and thereby increase mortality.

China can see Net Zero/Green Deal will reduce the West’s production capacity and output, but China won’t sign up to it. It is also likely the Chinese understand Net Zero/Green Deal will soon enough be rejected by the People, so another means of disabling the West, weakening its people is needed. Everdemics.

The pay-off for China? A global market of over 6 billion people hungry for the economic prosperity increased consumption brings, and China, without the West, will dominate in supplying that demand.

It also clears the way for a Chinese hegemony – the Chinese have always been an empire run from the centre with strict, brutal methods of control.

7
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Jabby Mcstiff
Jabby Mcstiff
3 years ago

I don’t think so. China might well be the embodiment of a soulless technocratic future or at least the country that has moved furthest in that direction. But it didn’t really dictate anything to the rest of us. You will recall it was the scenes in Italy that really spooked the Europeans. These tendencies towards techoncracy are everywhere and it is important to navigate this blind spot that sees this as a Chinese disease. The talk in places like the CFR is that in order not to be surpassed by China we need to exert similar or stronger controls in the west. This is an entirely corporate investment based perspective.

4
0
MrTea
MrTea
3 years ago

The Tories and Labour are globalists technocrats.
The Chinese system is the roll model globalist technocratic state.
The Chinese combine total social and political control with nominally freemarket operation.
The Tories and Labour have been shifting UK industry to China and selling off UK infrastructure to the Chinese as fast as they can, the Tories are in the process of implementing legislation to further kill free speech and censor the internet which as are just like the Chinese.
The Tories amd Labour have rolled out a social credit system dressed up as a vaccine/covid system.

The Tories are our worst enemy and they intend to eliminate any freedoms and liberties that we ever had. .

6
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RW
RW
3 years ago

Just about everything which can possibly enter a body is principally deadly to some people. That’s why we treat, or at least used to treat, sick people, preferably early. Outside of the country which seems to be permanently stuck (culturally) in the so-called early modern period, we don’t lock them up to find out if they’ll end up getting seriously sick.

These three sentences are entirely sufficient as verdict on Corona politics: A murderous folly from a bygone age. Brought to you by citizens of nowhere who’ll always pick foreign, that is, cutely exotic, over own (that’s soo boring).

Last edited 3 years ago by RW
2
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Jabby Mcstiff
Jabby Mcstiff
3 years ago

We are not innoculated against the real poisons and it really shows. I am happy with that as long as we are moving to the good.

0
0
MrTea
MrTea
3 years ago

The ciritcal issue is that the Chinese never isolated an actual new virus from an actual patient.
The Chinese simply created computer models of theoretical viral particles from tissue cultures in which they had mixed samples from people that were ill.
No actual viral particle was ever recovered from any ill human anywhere in the world.
This is why they are able to come up with hundred of thousands of supposed variants, each time a different sample is processed by the virologists software it comes up slightly different results because it is all theoretical.

4
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Star
Star
3 years ago

I have an open mind with regard to Michael Senger’s thesis – one needs to ask “How would the Chinese elite establish global hegemony?” and, more prosaically, does anyone else remember the Korea-based religious cult that was said to have spread SARSCoV2 in northern Italy in the early days? – but is it possible to support the thesis without reference to Sh*tter?

Twitter won’t have been a means by which elites in all countries were roped into the notion of “Let’s lock down against the new SARS variant”. The most powerful 0.1% don’t believe a word of the cr*p that’s on Twitter. It’s “prole-feed” only. Well, okay, it’s middle-class feed too, but it isn’t for the rulers. Only dimwits read Twitter. Reading Twitter is like sniffing glue.

Last edited 3 years ago by Star
1
0
John Dee
John Dee
3 years ago

Back when Wu-flu hove into view, the Chinese were (because of Trump’s actions) the biggest contributor to WHO funding, so there’s little surprise in its adherence to Peking’s proddings.
Early indication was when the WHO said it was hurtful to describe it as a Chinese virus, despite it having originated there.
(Of course, if you factor in Fauci’s funding of the gain-of-function research at Wuhan, then you can understand why China didn’t want to be the sole scapegoat.)

0
0
Backlash
Backlash
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

The chinks are infamous for lying, they taught Putin everything he knows. Deny, deny, deny even when it’s blatantly obvious who is at fault.

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RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago

All they had to do was prove SARS-CoV-2 came from that lab, and China could be held responsible. … It was, indeed, the perfect setup. Exactly as Xi Jinping intended.

Big deal. China is found responsible. What do we do, sue them?

But we know it wasn’t just China, was it? America and doubtless the rest of the western world knew about bio weapons research and gain of function. Porton Down isn’t developing novel macrame techniques.

Which supports my contention. The world locked down not because of Covid, but because all governments knew the potential of a serious gain of function virus.

It suggests to me they probably didn’t know which virus had escaped (and I think it was unintentional) from Wuhan so the whole world assumed the worst and hit the big red panic button.

The WHO’s pandemic plan specifically precluded lockdowns, so why was that changed? In my opinion, because it was designed to deal with regular, naturally evolving viruses, not those designed to wipe out populations, or sections thereof.

Then someone whispered in WHO’s ear that this might not be quite the virus they had planned for. The WHO shit itself and went full China lockdown syndrome because they probably knew more about what was in that lab than anyone else.

There are no good and bad guys in all this. Is China going to take over the world? I don’t think anyone really is stupid enough to believe that even Joe Biden would be happy governed by China, never mind Putin or Modi.

In much the same way, does anyone really imagine Xi or Putin are going to agree to Clause Schwab or Bill Gates running the world?

Social credit systems are a real threat, but again, do we imagine our criminal class, tribal Afghans, or even Iran will cooperate on a global sharing of wealth? Even nationally, without a KGB style intelligence and police force, what would stop any of us turning criminal, even if it was to trade some carrots for a loaf of bread?

3
0
RW
RW
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Which supports my contention. The world locked down not because of Covid, but because all governments knew the potential of a serious gain of function virus.

I’d like to argue the exact opposite: Ever since its invention, undirected, experimental gene editing is a solution desparately in search of a problem. The outomes usually don’t work as intended or don’t work at all and the speed of a human doing such changes manually is absolutely no match for natural viral reproduction. Hence, every clever idea these guys come up with which doesn’t already exist in nature was presumably already here for endless times and always died out.

That’s a bit like AI: Obvious BS journalists and people who like to feel important (like Dominic Cummings) tend to fall for. One could also mention nuclear fusion research in this context, allthough the people doing that at least have an idea what they want to accomplish.

0
-1
Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

“The world locked down not because of Covid, but because all governments knew the potential of a serious gain of function virus.”

But lockdowns don’t work.

Which is why they weren’t part of established policy before March 2020.

0
0
ComeTheRevolution
ComeTheRevolution
3 years ago

If you want to gain an understanding of how China is just another part of “THE CABAL”, go to Brendon O Connells youtube. He has laid it all out. The East India Trading Company has been in China for aeons. Its pure hegelian dialect, playing everyone off of each other, making you look in every direction except the correct one. I love Michaels paper The Chinese Communist Partys Global Lockdown Fraud, its great and was very welcome at the time, but this notion that China is able to pull this off without the hidden hand of the East India Trading Company and the City Of London and all the rest of it is laughable.

Brendons must watch playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YPO9QeRdU8&list=PLlDxOv3vXbAec7NHW59QPX0cMMAEiCWwk

3
-1
Lockdown Sceptic
Lockdown Sceptic
3 years ago

Biden’s Shanghai SILENCE shows he’s been BOUGHT by China
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk8ZAQFENJw
Glenn Beck

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Stand in the Park Sundays from 10am – make friends & keep sane 

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Telegram http://t.me/astandintheparkbracknell

2
-2
007point5
007point5
3 years ago

Blame the Chinks all you like…The bottom line is the Nazism that lurks within ALL of us… Much as we like to blame it on certain EVIL politicians.. We have only ourselves to blame.. .

3
-1
RedhotScot
RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  007point5

We have ourselves to blame, but blaming that on Naziism is insane.

Give us all some evidence.

1
0
huxleypiggles
huxleypiggles
3 years ago

Load of BOLLOX.

3
0
huxleypiggles
huxleypiggles
3 years ago

Another thread taken over by the troll:

Fingal is loose and everybody is piling in.

Yawn.

3
0
David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago

Chinese foot soldiers in the West were willing participants and advocates – including our own Prime Minister. and all his ‘advisors’.

Chinese money has bought the world.

1
0
Sontol
Sontol
3 years ago

The fundamental ideological root of this mass panic is Charles Darwin’s replacement of eternal spirit worship with mortal nature / planet / body / health worship = fear of death.

To give a more direct link to the article being discussed both Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto (hence indirectly the CCP) were hugely influenced by the Darwinian concept of human life as an ongoing evolutionary struggle for ‘the survival of the fittest’.

Self-centred Social-Darwinism has brought nothing but nihilism, destruction and misery in its wake. It needs to be ditched in favour of a return to the spiritual-moral values of self-sacrifice and compassion, all underpinned by a belief that the soul survives physical death.

Incidentally I am not talking about institutionalised religion here but rather a personal faith.

Last edited 3 years ago by Sontol
1
0
Iain McCausland
Iain McCausland
3 years ago

Follow the money. The CCP were certainly involved to a large extent but there is no mention in this article of the US Federal Reserve pumping $9trillion into the banking system to stave off the Sep 2019 financial collapse. Lockdowns were needed to reduce demands on the financial system. See Prof. Vighli’s piece highlighted in a recent Daily Sceptic edition.

1
0
Pilla
Pilla
3 years ago

I think I’ve read this article thoroughly (there’s too much one has to read every day, blowing my mind, not in a good way!) and don’t think I’ve seen anything to suggest that the virus (SARS-CoV-2), with the lockdowns and associated fear, could have been engendered as an excuse for the Covid jabs to be pushed out upon the populations of the world. Surely this is a possibility.

0
0
Kornea112
Kornea112
3 years ago

There is one thing that is obvious from the overreaction to SARS-2 is that public health officials, Doctors in general, and politicians & governments do not care one iota about your safety and health.

2
0
Kornea112
Kornea112
3 years ago

The annual flu and other respiratory viruses kill an estimated 350,000 to 500,000 people annually most of them the elderly and other immuno compromised people. Governments have been unsuccessfully investing billions in research to find a universal flu vaccine that was effective on all flu variants. The push for a diiferent approach & to use lockdowns, to this annual death rate has been growing in public health circles has been growiing since 2005. This has been actively opposed by many Doctors as ineffective and damaging. It seems to me this movement for medical lockdown finally got some traction and was really nothing more than a great experiment by those pushing the lockdown method. Of course it turned out to be an unmitigated disaster that did nothing to prevent deaths and made things much worse. But this being a grand planned conspiracy doesn’t jive with the general incompetence of governments and public health officials.

2
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