The Re-Adjustment Bureau
Hats off to Carl Heneghan and Yoon Loke. Three weeks ago, they wrote a post on the Centre For Evidence-Based Medicine blog drawing attention to a peculiarity in the way Public Health England (PHE) recorded Covid deaths. They discovered that if you’d ever tested positive for COVID-19 and you subsequently died, even if several months had elapsed since the test, your death was recorded as being from coronavirus.
PHE does not appear to consider how long ago the Covid test result was, nor whether the person has been successfully treated in hospital and discharged to the community. Anyone who has tested Covid positive but subsequently died at a later date of any cause will be included on the PHE Covid death figures.
By this PHE definition, no one with Covid in England is allowed to ever recover from their illness. A patient who has tested positive, but successfully treated and discharged from hospital, will still be counted as a Covid death even if they had a heart attack or were run over by a bus three months later.
After their post was published, Matt Hancock announced a review into the way in which PHE collects Covid data and temporarily suspended its publication. Yesterday, that review was concluded and PHE has said that henceforth it will only record a death as being from coronavirus if it occurs within 28 days of a positive test. (Heneghan and Loke suggested 21 days.) As a result, PHE’s Covid death toll has been revised downward by over 5,000. This is more than even I expected. The BBC has the details.
The new methodology for counting deaths means the total number of people in the UK who have died from COVID-19 comes down from 46,706 to 41,329 – a reduction of 12%.
And figures for deaths in England for the most recent week of data – July 18th to 24th – will drop by 75%, from 442 to 111.
That 75% drop for the third week of July is astonishing. As Heneghan and Jason Oke point out in a new blog post, this doesn’t just apply to July 18th to 24th, but to the whole of July.
under the old PHE system, 2,086 deaths were reported in England in July by date of death, with the 28 days cut off this number is 574 – nearly a quarter of what was previously reported.
The same applies to August. For instance, if you look at the last two days, under the old reporting method 100 people were recorded as having died from coronavirus yesterday and 77 today. Under the new method, those numbers are revised downwards to 11 and 15. Heneghan and Oke have illustrated the difference with a graph showing the seven-day moving average for July.
Incidentally, the Government still hasn’t updated its own dashboard. If you look at this page, you’ll see that the number of Covid deaths recorded yesterday was 100 and the number today is 77.
Raise your game, Handy Cock.
British Public More Terrified Than Everyone Else
Does PHE’s over-counting matter? Yes, obviously, not least because it brings the official method of counting deaths in England into line with Scotland’s, making it harder for Nic Sturge-Un to claim she’s handled the crisis better than Boris. (Although she couldn’t have done much worse). More importantly, the over-counting may have contributed to the coronaphobia that has gripped the British public and which may in part account for why the UK has suffered a 22% fall in GDP since the beginning of the year.
The above graphs from the Economist show that the British are more frightened to leave their homes than the citizens of France, Germany, Italy or Spain, particularly when it comes to returning to the workplace. Not the sick man of Europe, exactly, since the UK’s Covid deaths per million are in line with those of France, Italy and Spain. Rather, the hypochondriac of Europe.
Excoriating Op Ed by Editor of Sunday Telegraph
Alastair Heath, the Editor of the Sunday Telegraph, has written a damning piece about the Government’s handling of the crisis in today’s Telegraph. Here are the opening two paragraphs:
So now we know: Sweden got it largely right, and the British establishment catastrophically wrong. Anders Tegnell, Stockholm’s epidemiologist-king, has pulled off a remarkable triple whammy: far fewer deaths per capita than Britain, a maintenance of basic freedoms and opportunities, including schooling, and, most strikingly, a recession less than half as severe as our own.
Our arrogant quangocrats and state “experts” should hang their heads in shame: their reaction to coronavirus was one of the greatest public policy blunders in modern history, more severe even than Iraq, Afghanistan, the financial crisis, Suez or the ERM fiasco. Millions will lose their jobs when furlough ends; tens of thousands of small businesses are failing; schooling is in chaos, with A-level grades all over the place; vast numbers are likely to die from untreated or undetected illnesses; and we have seen the first exodus of foreigners in years, with the labour market survey suggesting a decline in non-UK born adults.
Alastair has always leant towards scepticism, but this is his most sceptical piece to date. Great stuff. Worth reading in full (if you can get past the paywall).
No ‘Second Wave’ in Europe
We often hear alarmist reports of a ‘second wave’ in Europe, with rumours swirling about which countries are about to be removed from the travel corridor. According to the Telegraph, as many as 14 countries could soon be removed from the list, including the Netherlands, Gibraltar, Monaco, Malta and San Marino. But in the case of every ‘second wave’ country, all we’ve seen is an uptick in the number of people testing positive each day, no corresponding uptick in the number of daily deaths. I’m grateful to the FT for helping to make this point with a couple of graphs.
First the graph showing the increase in daily infections.
And now the graph showing the daily deaths.
In other words, the uptick in infections is almost entirely due to increased testing and nothing to worry about.
My Holiday in the Sun
As readers will know, I spent an enjoyable week with my family in Italy last month – three days in Venice, followed by four in the Dolomites. I’ve now written this up for the Telegraph and, as you’ll see, I wasn’t with my whole family.
After four months of living under virtual house arrest in Acton, I desperately needed a break. I know the lockdown is tough on everyone, but it’s particularly difficult to endure if you think it’s a catastrophic mistake. Since the beginning of April I’ve been running a blog called LockdownSceptics.org, pumping out daily reminders of the harm the lockdown is doing, whether to schoolchildren, cancer patients or elderly care home residents. Not that it makes any impact on public opinion. It’s as if the entire world is suffering from ‘psychotic delirium’, to use the phrase of Bernard Henry-Levi, the French philosopher.
My wife and I booked a family getaway, but we hit a lockdown-related snag two weeks before departure. No, our chosen destination wasn’t removed from the travel corridor – we’d arranged to go to Italy not Spain or the Bahamas, thank God. Rather, we discovered our 15-year-old son’s passport was about to expire. Normally, you can pay extra to fast-track the application or, failing that, stand in a queue for a few hours at the Passport Office. But not at the moment.
I sat down with Ludo and told him he had a choice: we could either scrap the holiday, or he could stay with a friend and I’d buy him a new gaming desktop. It took him all of two seconds to make up his mind.
There’s plenty more in this vein.
Alarmist ITV News Report About “Lingering” Effects of the Virus
A reader has written to object to a report on ITV News yesterday evening.
This is (honestly) the first time I have felt moved complain about a news report, but Emily Morgan’s piece on tonight’s ITV News at 6.30pm was a textbook example of the exaggeration, scaremongering and frankly, crap reporting that seems to have swept through the media in recent times.
The report was supposedly highlighting how several people who had recovered from COVID-19 were still experiencing negative health issues and implied that these were somehow unique to the virus and constitute a ‘hidden cost’ of the disease that is now now becoming apparent.
EVERYBODY PANIC!
These symptoms included chronic fatigue, an inability to concentrate and constant muscular pain. Exactly the symptoms of Post Viral Fatigue in fact – a condition known about for over 40 years (known in the 80s as ‘yuppie flu’).
The clue is in the title – a syndrome that you tend to get after fighting off a debilitating virus (usually the flu). There is plenty of information on the web should anyone at ITN bother to fact check (Hint: it’s usually better to do this before you broadcast the report).
I’d love to know what qualifications Ms. Morgan has relating to Heath/Science? I suspect the answer will be none, just like her equivalent at the BBC, Hugh Pym, who has a degree in PPE. How are these people supposed to critically report on their briefs when they don’t appear to have even a basic understanding of subject they are reporting on? Deborah Cohen (Newsnight) has a background in medicine and boy does it show – her reports are always excellent, balanced, never alarmist and because of this interesting and informative. Sadly, she’s one of the few.
Keep Two Sheep Apart
A reader gets in touch after spotting an unlikely sign in Folkestone.
I’m on holiday in Kent this week and whilst walking along coast path at Folkestone yesterday I couldn’t believe this sign was for real. Now they’re just trolling us.
Socially Distanced Cars
Another reader reports more madness: socially distanced cars.
I was chatting this morning to a neighbour whose wife is currently working from home.
I have no idea what she does, but he told me that her firm has said no one will be going back to the office until at least January and even then they will only allow 40% of the staff back. This is, according to the firm, because “the rules” say that not only must staff socially distance in the office, but cars must be socially distanced in the car park with only alternate spaces used!
As I’ve said many times in the past five months, the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
Round-Up
- ‘“State becomes more powerful and individuals weaker” with forced isolation: Alan Jones‘ – More common sense from our favourite broadcaster on Sky Australia
- Plan B Conference in New Zealand – One of the organisers of the Plan B conference in New Zealand (featuring Prof Gupta, among others) has got in touch to say anyone can attend. You’ll be able to watch it here when it’s broadcast live on Monday. Meanwhile, Saint Jacinda has announced that anyone who tests positive in NZ will be forced to quarantine in a government managed facility
- ‘The statistical quirk that means the coronavirus pandemic may never officially end‘ – The Telegraph‘s Science Editor Sarah Knapton flags up something I’ve often drawn attention to on this site: false positives will mean the virus will never be eliminated
- ‘Australia, How Have You Let it Come to This?‘ – Good piece by Professor Augusto Zimmermann in Quadrant
- ‘Mass testing results: Endless panic and false positives‘ – Another corking post from Daniel Horowitz in the Conservative Review
- ‘Flu and pneumonia killed five times more than Covid last month‘ – According to the latest ONS figures, there were 193 deaths reported in the week ending July 31st that had coronavirus mentioned on the death certificate and 928 people who died of flu or pneumonia in the same period
- ‘Partygoers put Oldham at risk of further curbs‘ – More needless misery is in store for the residents of Greater Manchester
- ‘A Tale of Two Tyrannies: Psychiatry and the public health response to coronavirus‘ – Interesting blog post by Gary Sidley, a retired NHS psychologist
Theme Tunes Suggested by Readers
Two today: “Failed Exams” by Laxcity and “Ventilator Blues” by the Rolling Stones
Small Businesses That Have Re-Opened
A couple of months ago, Lockdown Sceptics launched a searchable directory of open businesses across the UK. The idea is to celebrate those retail and hospitality businesses that have re-opened, as well as help people find out what has opened in their area. But we need your help to build it, so we’ve created a form you can fill out to tell us about those businesses that have opened near you.
Now that non-essential shops have re-opened – or most of them, anyway – we’re now focusing on pubs, bars, clubs and restaurants, as well as other social venues. As of July 4th, many of them have re-opened too, but not all (and some of them are at risk of having to close again). Please visit the page and let us know about those brave folk who are doing their bit to get our country back on its feet – particularly if they’re not insisting on face masks! Don’t worry if your entries don’t show up immediately – we need to approve them once you’ve entered the data.
Love in the Time of Covid
We have created some Lockdown Sceptics Forums that are now open, including a dating forum called “Love in a Covid Climate” that has attracted a bit of publicity. We have a team of moderators in place to remove spam and deal with the trolls, but sometimes it takes a little while so please bear with us. You have to register to use the Forums, but that should just be a one-time thing. Any problems, email the Lockdown Sceptics webmaster Ian Rons here.
“Mask Exempt” Lanyards
I’ve created a permanent slot down here for people who want to buy (or make) a “Mask Exempt” lanyard/card. You can print out and laminate a fairly standard one for free here and it has the advantage of not explicitly claiming you have a disability. But if you have no qualms about that (or you are disabled), you can buy a lanyard from Amazon saying you do have a disability/medical exemption here (now showing it will arrive between Sept 26th to Oct 6th). The Government has instructions on how to download an official “Mask Exempt” notice to put on your phone here. You can get a “Hidden Disability” tag from ebay here and an “exempt” card that looks like as if it’s been issued by the NHS for just £2.79 from Etsy here.
Don’t forget to sign the petition on the UK Government’s petitions website calling for an end to mandatory face nappies in shops here (now over 28,000).
A reader has started a website that contains some useful guidance about how you can claim legal exemption.
Meanwhile, probably not a good idea to wear unusual face coverings as an expression of your resistance to mask fascism. The Standard reports that the tech millionaire John McAffee was arrested in Norway for wearing a thong on his face.
Shameless Begging Bit
Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the past 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. If you feel like donating, however small the sum, please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links I should include in future updates, email me here.
And Finally…
In my Spectator column this week, I’ve written about why I started “Love in a Covid Climate”.
It all began in April when I started a blog called Lockdown Sceptics. I wanted to create a clubhouse for that small band of dissenters who think that locking down the entire population, the healthy as well as the sick, is a violation of our civil liberties, particularly when our scientific understanding of how the virus is transmitted is so incomplete. It quickly started getting a lot of traffic, suggesting we aren’t such a tiny minority after all. On an average day, the site gets 25,000 visitors and to date it’s had more than 2.5 million page views.
The idea is that if you’re a Covid realist you don’t want to go out with a hysteric who frets about a ‘second wave’
Last week I got an email from one of my regular correspondents saying he was newly divorced and thinking of signing up with a dating agency. ‘It made me realise that a key criterion for meeting someone is that they absolutely must be a lockdown sceptic,’ he wrote. ‘I genuinely think that if I can find a girl as sceptical as me, she must therefore be marriage material. That’s how important (and sadly divisive) this issue has now become. I could never date (let alone build a relationship with) a lockdown zealot.’That’s when the lightbulb appeared above my head. Why not start a dating site myself? My tech-savvy collaborator, Ian Rons, had already created some discussion forums on the website, so all he needed to do was add a new page where users could post their lonely hearts messages. We decided to call it ‘Love in a Covid climate’.
Worth reading in full.
To join in with the discussion please make a donation to The Daily Sceptic.
Profanity and abuse will be removed and may lead to a permanent ban.
I win, but what do I win?…
Two weeks in Leicester.
Leicester’s just fine dickhead.
Aren’t you clever!
Okay, mod.
Leicester is just fine. Your smug “humour” is NOT appreciated.
A cruise
On the Diamond Princess.
Or Bournemouth
We’ve had ships moored off the coast in Bournemouth, including cruise ships, since the ports are full. So combine the two.
Our great respect!
I don’t like crowing so I’ve sorted it Newest to Oldest just to spite Simon.
I always search that way too
One week at Butlins.
That might not be so bad. Forced encampment, have to abide by rules and can only go to the shop when allowed. Must take mandatory exercise at set times….. a home from home :>)
Good preparation for your future life under lockdown.
24 hours, nonstop, living in Nicola Sturgeon’s head.
There’s plenty of room…
Now that’s going too far.
Vaccination.
First prize, a week in Wuhan. Try some exotic delicacies from the wet market. Second prize, two weeks in Wuhan including a tour of the virology labs. Although these have no connection at all with the virus, of course.
And, finally, a proper Chinese funeral, CCCP style.
You win a win…it’s a win-win situation.
A day watching videos of Matt Hancock’s Covid updates
Kill me now!
Would you like some COVID-19 with that? :-p
Hard-hitting factual article on BrexitFacts4EU website today:
https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_aug_con_us_virus
Extract:
‘…Have the Coronavirus numbers come anywhere near justifying the lockdown of our nation, the imposition of emergency powers, the denial of our civil liberties, the drastic shortening of lives because the NHS wouldn’t treat non-Covid patients, the closing of our schools and universities, the severe damage to the infrastructure of our cities and to our town high streets, and the utter devastation of our economy? No, the Coronavirus numbers have justified none of these.
Will we see far more deaths from other causes over the next few years as a result of the knee-jerk Coronavirus responses? Yes we will.
It really is time for this nonsense to end. We have always argued for a proportionate response. We urge the Government to look at the real figures that matter, stop the hysteria, and end this madness completely. Let’s get everyone back to work and back into education, and regrow our country again as quickly as possible…’
“We urge the Government”. And this is the problem.
http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/07/exiting-babylon-the-only-way-to-escape-being-prey-for-uk-government-in-perpetuity/
Quote from the above. Good points:
Take a careful look at what your media tells you about “Covid-19”; does it reinforce the basic concept of the psyop, even if it quibbles about how deaths are recorded, or whether or not the disease is as dangerous as claimed? Does it say “Covid-19 is as dangerous as flu in the such-and-such age demographic”? It probably does. On the contrary, here at FBEL it is said that Covid-19 is a thing contracted by those whose upper respiratory tracts, but especially lungs express a high amount of ACE2. Certain people may happen to be more susceptible to the condition because of the state of their health terrain (and we deal with why in just a second). Does the reader see the difference? Only when one comes to the information that the FBEL reader is directed to (it isn’t invented) can one start to ask questions about why there is a prevalence of ACE2 in the body. The primary suspects for causation are the prescription drugs related to obesity, high blood pressure, and then further complications. Is it any wonder that ACE2 never gets an airing in any media when obesity – the gateway for the unsuspecting into a lifetime of medication (see the FBEL article, The beneficent NHS, where corporate-government makes a buck from population control) – is such a gold mine for the NHS/pharma complex?
The ACE inhibitor link doesn’t get much attention although I am aware of it.
Interesting diagram at 9:35 in https://www.sott.net/article/438937-ExposeBillGates-Day-of-Action-2
Umm… stupid question, i know, but why not look at the cause of death? Cause it sounds to me like if you get hit by a bus in those 28 days, it still counts. Who makes up these rules?
Because that would mean that COVID-19 wasn’t this big scary disease that they’re making it out to be. They’re not just gonna turn off 5 months of lies after putting so much effort into scaring the majority of the population, and suddenly give us our freedom back.
And in the process admit they got it catastrophically wrong, have atomised the economy and caused hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths by closing down the health system for five months. They are in so deep now they might as well keep paddling because they can’t really cause much more damage and they might kid some fools into believing they are responsible for “beating” the virus.
‘They’re in so deep now…’ Not deep enough, they are digging deeper. Look what’s happening in Australia, look what Sturgeon’s trying to do. If Victoria can lock up its citizens for 23 hours a day with those pathetic figures (less than 250 deaths out of 5 million people) then don’t think it can’t happen here.
At least Australia is at the beginning of the epidemic. What they’re attempting to do is not worth it, and will probably fail, but Sturgeon definitely wins the award for monumental stupidity with her “Covid Zero” project.
Joint winner with Jacinda Ardern, who may yet win outright
My money’s on Jacinda. Can we get odds at William Hill?
The words after stupidity are redundant.
If they can grab power, they will grab as much of it as they can.
Mosside/Brixton/Hackney <> Victoria.
“they got it catastrophically wrong”
Perhaps not. It depends on the intention.
If you die in a hospice with covid in your system it is, somewhat ludicrously labelled as a covid death.
From my experience many people frustratingly continue testing + ve for months after their original infection. No doubt this would mean some people would have had covid19 in March , never tested at time, serious RTA in July and get tested on admission to hospital . Positve test in July and die of injuries… covid death . It really is insane..
I would never have a test for Covid once you’re included in their statistics you become a Covid statistic!
Just explained that new rule to my 14 y/o son and he made the exact same comment. He could probably run PHE better than these morons.
I have no doubt of it.
It’s another modeling technique.
(Repost from end of yesterday’s page.)
Beeb getting brickbats from rail industry about yesterday’s accident. The train was heading back North, for example, not continuing its journey. All we got on the news was clueless speculation. People are making the connection: “what else can we believe?”
Ironically it looks like the Stonehaven train crash might be a case where anti-Covid measures actually have saved lives, indirectly… (the train presumably being near-empty)
Having seen video of the wreckage https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53759972 it looks horrendous, comparable with far more severe (in terms of casualties) rail accidents in the past. If there had been more than a handful of people on board, surely there would have been more than 3 deaths and 6 injuries (the latter all minor)
When I saw pictures of the crash site, and reports of the number of Air Ambulances which attended, I thought it fortunate this line hasn’t been electrified. They’d have had bugger all chance of putting down with 25kV overhead lines above both tracks…
Toby – to renew a teenagers passport (as you needed to do) takes 9-10 days, all done. There is no backlog, there are no delays.
It is another piece of scaremongering to make us stay at home and not make the effort to travel abroad.
Daughter’s passport renewal (with new photo) applied for on the 20th July. New one popped through the letterbox on the 30th.
Does the same apply to driving licences? Or is this another piece of scaremongering to prevent 17 year olds from becoming mobile and 70 year olds from staying mobile?
Hello, I’m 67 and my husband is 71. We live in a hilly, rural area and do not run a car and we are both very much mobile, thank you very much! If you drive a car all the time instead of using your legs, you risk compromising your actual mobility and your general health.
Think you missed the point there MW.
I think it is all part of a narrative designed & delivered to keep us in fear and under lock & key. It plays to all age groups but is bollox in reality.
I was also informed that car & van hire companies were not hiring out their vehicles as they could ‘not maintain C19 hygiene standards’.
This is also utter tripe – I have hired a van & cars three times since March without so much as a flicker of difficulty. My local car hire business has been flat out busy for months.
It’s all bilge. Just live your life as if all was normal and you know what? It becomes so.
Can’t say but DVLA were crap long before covid …..
I sign DVLA medical forms for people to return to driving. Had barely any from March to July but they’re starting to come through in normal numbers in the past couple of weeks.
My daughter’s passport renewal also took a very short time. Sent application off on the 28th July, new one arrived yesterday.
Best not to tell him that now that he has forked out for a gaming laptop and his son has lifetime rights to the “remember that time Dad when you went away on holiday without me ..” tale.
So if ive got this right, PHE still have the same problem but with a shorter time frame ? so from now on, if you ‘test positive’, then 27 days later you die of cancer or hit by a bus, it STILL goes down as a covid death ? its still bollox isnt it ?
It’s a fudge both ways. There will be deaths to which covid is not a major contributor within 28 days of infection, and deaths beyond 28 days to which it is a major contributor.
There’s no really bulletproof way of attributing cause of death, but far be it from me to imply that they have implemented this deliberate fudge in the hope and expectation that some intrepid bedwetter will go and find cases of death after 28 days to prove it is underestimating the deaths, thus enabling the paranoia and panic to continue.
Not forgetting of course that the test could be a false positive anyway. You couldn’t make it up… oh actually they are.
If that was the plan then they missed a trick by not using Heneghan’s reported suggestion of 21 days as justification for adopting that number instead….
That’s not really the case no, as is it not the case that they will test a sick person multiple times if still symptomatic etc and so they’d die within 28 days of most recent test. Happy to be corrected if that’s not the case, but I believe that’s the practice?
The good part of that is that there is now a great deal of uncertainty of any of the numbers. the efffects of now reducing them may make people start to think that they may still be over counting.
If it was increased people may think, and lets face it we know they will, that the total must be higher.
Either way, trust is broken and that will switch people more to our way of thinking.
Anecdote =/= data, but I’ve heard two things that make me wonder whether this will be the actual reaction. The first was weeks and weeks ago when someone (a primary school teacher) was telling me that I shouldn’t believe the official story that kids weren’t dying and that she had a friend who was a nurse at GOSH who knew “what’s really going on”. The second was some bed wetting tweet quoted here yesterday (by Mark, I think) where the idiot quoted was saying that the “real” numbers were much higher than the official figures.
Both of which make me concerned that many people will just think they’re being tricked _even more_
Oh yeah there are plenty of people still desperately hoping (for some reason) the figures are _worse_ and they believe it’s all being downplayed! Not sure how anyone could think that, but there you go
I think with the teachers it’s propaganda coming from the unions. Anything to stop schools reopening.
No. It’s just one aspect of the induced fear. It’s (unfortunately) genuine.
Promoting this idea that the Government is deliberately under-counting and “hiding” COVID deaths would be a job for the 77th boys
Once you start lying, all credibility goes.
Yes I think that’s what Guy de la B. was saying. Nobody trusts the government so will believe what they want, including that things are much worse.
“Nobody trusts the government” EXCEPT THOSE MORONS THAT WILLINGLY WEAR A MUZZLE
I refuse to believe anything this lying government has to say about anything! Most certainly, what little trust I had went at Lockdown!
Umm, no. Quite the opposite. People will be: “Ok, fine, you had good reason to be skeptical. But look! Now they made the numbers all better! These are the real numbers! Stop arguing!”
And this is what the exercise was for.
Trouble is, I’ve talked to a few terrified people who believe that the government is deliberately UNDER-reporting the deaths, which they take as evidence that this government can’t be trusted and the virus is much worse than we are being told and we’re all gonna die!
I had a Twatter conversation the other week the poster was saying that because world deaths were 654,000 the virus was going to kill us all. I posted that the virus is less virulent now & that the number was only 0.008% of the world population.
The poster came back with that the deaths are vastly underestimated & 3,000,000 had died in the UK.
You really can’t help some people.
One year’s worth of normal deaths every month? Well, the mass graves should be easy to spot, perhaps he can show you.
I actually think you are right. You can’t help quite a few people and that’s really the shocker because you imagine that just a basic assessment of the facts would quell their fears but it really is something more than that. Its actually akin to a psychiatric disorder – a complete deviation from reality. I remain amazed on a daily basis to hear intelligent, thoughtful people talking as if C-19 is a deadly virus that you are highly likely to get from all manner of routine contact. They genuinely believe it and they just assume that you believe it too. Even people with OCD are usually aware that their obsessions are irrational and unhelpful. I’m not at all sure what will help apart from time i.e. ‘I haven’t died yet or know anyone who has, maybe this isn’t as bad as I fear?’ type questioning. I think most people are in too deep, I’m afraid. It’s like a spell or something.
I’ve had similar feelings about 9-11 for nineteen years, Alison.
‘Basic assessments of facts’ vary depending on the person, the facts, the sources, and the degree of their interest/involvement.
I take your point JB.
3,000,000!! FGS what a cretinous comment. Where do these people get their information from?
exactly – encouraged by the face nappy wearing
I love that how they say “the government can’t be trusted” then do everything that the government tell them to do and spout very single government line and slogan!
I don’t see how under reporting death figures would help the government. High death figures can be used to justify the lockdown and terrify the population.
To quote Diana West: The issue is never the issue. The issue is always the Revolution.
They don’t care about accurate reporting. They care about generating as much fear as people are willing to accept.
Exactly.
It’s confusing, inaccurate and continues to be putting out false numbers. IF there are no other long term chronic conditions known or unknown then Covid can kill and sometimes does. Because there have been so few post morteums the clinicians (and Drs on this site please correct me if I’m wrong), have not been able to study in depth what happened to the major organs and if there is a treatment they can apply to stop it happening. It has got much better as the medics have been exposed to ill patients.
pressed return in error. What I wanted to continue to say was that one of my relatives (retired pathologist and seriously knowledgeable about viruses) was called back into her local hospital during the early panic and she says that some of her patients unexpectedly died when ‘they’ – the medics – thought they were on the road to recovery. She was particularly saddened to lose a mid 50s patient (overweight male) suddenly and overnight and there was nothing they could do about it – then. But what I want to see in big bold black newsprint in the MSM is the tiny numbers (what about 1700?) of people that have ‘only’ died of Covid without other contributing additional illnesses and old age. We have been appallingly served by our government, media and pubic health. Time for a reboot. BTW going to the mask free march in Hull tomorrow if anyone else is around?
Lets look on the bright side then 4000 people have suddenly recovered from Covid and risen from the dead? surely time to celebrate?
I suspect that when the real figures are finally totalled up another 20000 or so will be back amongst those who didn’t actually die of “the virus”. The tragedy is however the 20000 and counting who have certainly died of lockdown related causes. May I suggest some form of national memorial to the victims of government incompetence? a memorial wall with the names of every patient who died because of withdrawn cancer treatment, every shopkeeper who committed suicide…. that might just be enough to stop the politicians of the future making rash and ill considered panic decisions on the advice of disgraced statisticians
Make it a time capsule and bury the incompetent politicins inside it.
Yes
Thank you Toby for all the articles you have been posting by lockdown sceptics in Australia, it is much appreciated and I am very glad to know they are around.They have yet to have any affect from what I can see; I am currently in Melbourne and don’t know anyone who will believe anything other than what they see on the news. Too upset to comment on it further at the moment.
This is an article that truly alarmed me –
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-trump-vaccine-idUSKCN24V3KY
The U.S. government is planning to launch an overwhelming COVID-19 vaccine campaign in November.The campaign will likely be compressed into a short period of time, around four to six weeks, to eliminate any lag between when Americans are alerted to the vaccine and then they can get vaccinated, the official said during a press conference.
There is every indication this will be rolled out globally, with reports that vaccines have already been purchased by governments around the world.
The UK, for example, has already purchased 190 million vaccines, even though the trials have yet to conclude, never mind safety approvals.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53469839 (last paragraph)
The vaccine push will be supported by a clinical trial conducted at Yale University to assess the effectiveness of various messages about vaccinating to ensure maximum vaccine uptake
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04460703?term=Vaccine&cond=Covid19&cntry=US&draw=2
As you can see in this document, the primary outcome measure of the study is willingness to get the COVID-19 vaccine. The secondary outcome measures include the participants’ confidence in the vaccine, their willingness to persuade others to get vaccinated, their fear of those who have not been vaccinated and the level of social judgment of those who choose not to vaccinate, with the launch of the vaccine.
A decline in infection rates around the world would not be conducive to the efforts to persuade the public to have vaccines . But clearly governments are heavily invested in the prospect of of new cases.
US vaccine “distribution” is between the Pentagon and CDC:
https://www.defense.gov/Explore/News/Article/Article/2311177/operation-warp-speed-on-track-for-end-of-year-vaccine-delivery/
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/trump-admin-sidelines-cdc-to-give-pentagon-unprecedented-role-in-vaccine-distribution
Why the military?
Makes my head spin
Operation Warp Speed – sounds like something out of a 1960s kids tv show like Thunderbirds.
“I think it will be a very effective vaccine. That’s my prediction,” Slaoui said. “My personal opinion, based on my experience and the biology of this virus, I think this vaccine is going to be highly efficacious.”
He THINKS?
His PREDICTION??
Very worrying!
This is very important information that we all need to digest. No one can complain that we were not warned in advance that this was coming in 2020. For all those who will not be taking the vaccine, we need to prepare for our greatest challenges yet, far worse than anything we have so far experienced with masks. Our ability to function at all in society (i.e. work, purchase or travel) is likely to be stripped away completely.
Not to mention public shaming.
Interesting and well-considered article about rushing vaccines into use without proper testing:
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/11/researchers-rush-to-start-moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-without-usual-animal-testing/
Shocking. And effective and inexpensive treatments are banned.
The propaganda aspect of that roll out was posted towards the end of yesterday on LS ie early thurs am.
Very nasty 10 point summary of reasons to accept it, worth a repost but I don’t have time to and can’t copy’n’past with an Android.
Thanks for that, I will have a look for it.
You will see there my bet that the UK NHS will never buy vaccine to do a complete, mass, all age range programme. Their Quality of Life Years cost benefit analysis will never come up positive for that. IF a safe , successful vaccine is ever produced, it will likely be offered to the vulnerable, like our flu vaccination is.
Unless – as has already been posited, I think in the US? – they realise the vaccine is ‘too much’ for the vulnerable and is likely to result in negative outcomes (and could even kill them). Then they will foist it on the healthy population who will be charged with ‘protecting’ the vulnerable by taking a jab for the team. A little collateral damage will be acceptable among them.
I think we only have to look at the ‘I wear mine to protect you’ mask rhetoric to realise this is a possibility. In the normal world they’d strive for a flu type vaccine. That’s still the most likely scenario. But….. If They discover by doing that they’re likely to to very obviously kill the over 60s in mass numbers that they can’t hide (they’re not in care homes), and they still have millions of doses of vaccine to shift…….
I am not sure I what you mean? According to news reports, including the BBC website I linked to above, the UK govt has already purchased 190 million doses of vaccines.
We know we don’t really need to be jabbed against covid.
However, they are hellbent on jabbing SOMETHING into us all.
They have jabbing us for the past five months.
That BBC link doesn’t work. Maybe they had to take it down because it was wrong.
Sorry about that. Thanks for letting me know. Here it is last paragraph
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53469839
Does anyone know how to edit their comments? I can’t find a way.
It hasn’t. It has agreed to purchase them if the vaccine works. Not quite the same thing.
The BBC article I link to above says
These have been paid for even though it is uncertain which, if any, of the vaccines may prove effective for immunising a nation with 66m people.
I read about this in several different publications, I could find nothing about the purchase. being contingent on safety approval
Sylvie, they have already purchased enough doses to jab the entire population. We aren’t dealing with people that make cost benefit analyses, unfortunately. I think they’ll “offer” it to all of us. The question is how many of us are reluctant and just going along with the whole face mask thing because what the heck, it isn’t really that big of of a deal but a jab in the arm with a hastily “tested” vaccine against a virus that isn’t that threatening … well, it will be interesting to see how many people are prepared to ‘just go along with it’ then. I think it will flush out a fair few people who are what I call closet sceptics but I also see a lot of people who have swallowed the narrative hook, link and sinker. It’s going to be a hell of an end to an extraordinary year. Everyone, buckle up!
No they haven’t. I doubt a dime has hit the table, except for govt contributions to research.What has happened is:
‘The UK government has entered partnerships with BioNtech/Pfizer and Valneva who are developing vaccines to protect against COVID-19. It has also secured early access to treatments containing COVID-19 neutralising antibodies from AstraZeneca, in order to treat those unable to receive vaccines, such as the immunocompromised or elderly.
As a result of these partnerships, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland could have access to enough doses to vaccinate and protect certain priority groups, such as frontline health and social care workers and those at increased health risk.
The government has secured access to three different types of COVID-19 vaccines that are being developed in the UK and abroad, which the UK Business Secretary Alok Sharma said should give the UK the most likely chance of getting access to a safe and effective vaccine at the quickest speed.’
https://www.europeanpharmaceuticalreview.com/news/123998/uk-government-secures-early-access-to-90-million-doses-of-covid-19-vaccines/
The BBC article says ( last paragraph)
These have been paid for even though it is uncertain which, if any, of the vaccines may prove effective for immunising a nation with 66m people.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53469839
But it is wrong. It’s the BBC. Don’t be surprised.
I hope you’re right Sylvie!
Don’t be surprised if online access is severely curtailed to prevent mobilisation of a push back. If you think we are alone now, think again. I fully expect all dissenting voices, web sites, online platforms will be shut down when the vaccine rollout begins in lockstep around the world.
Question is, how will we communicate and coordinate under such restrictions?
in person? by post?
Maybe all external means will be stripped away or blocked.
But part of all of this thing-19 is will I consent to die from fear by reacting as if what I fear is coming is already fact?
In English?
Gotta form those local groups asap.
I agree, local protest groups are the way to go. Just talking about it has its limitations so if we don’t start now we won’t have any momentum when it is sorely needed.
This is the first time in my life I have felt the need to go out and protest, damn the consequences. Failure is not an option for the alternative is not worth contemplating. I am not particularly concerned about my future, it’s my daughter and grandson who still have a full life ahead that I think about. I can’t imagine them living in an open prison system if the globalists get their way. They unfortunately live in Melbourne of all places and we know which way they are going!
Anyway, I live in Ireland and intend to travel up to Dublin a week Saturday to attend the Protest for Change gathering at Customs House. This will be the start of my new found protesting career and will give me the motivation to do something in my local town in Cork, the ‘rebel county’. Who knows how it will pan out but at least I’ll give it a good go.
Pre-internet, people used to use bulletin board services for communication. The bulletin board would be hosted on a single separate server housed at someone’s home or business. You would then use the telephone lines to dial up the server. You can also use Telnet to connect to some of them through the Internet. Many people my age (60s) used BBSs for years.
I certainly don’t have the technical skills or a server to set up such a service, but I suspect that there are already such services in existence. You just have to find them – which is easier to do now while the internet is still available. Of course, lots of us don’t have landlines anymore, which is a prereq, but there may be other options available that I don’t know about since I haven’t kept up with the field.
Leaflets. Posters. Graffiti. Word of Mouth.
You’re in Melbourne?
God help you. I mean that quite literally.
Thank you !
Del Bigtree (google ‘The Highwire’) and Robert F. Kennedy have done some excellent journalism work exposing the safety trials of vaccines. Del won a legal case so the the vaccine tials must now be tested against a saline placebo. The vaccine co’s have tried to manipulate results to make the results look better than they really are (the opposite of how we originally recorded covid deaths).
For sure. Robert F. Kennedy’s articles don’t beat around the bush do they ? Essential reading in my opinion.
One of the best blogs today I must say. Thank you Toby.
In order to fix the grades crisis next week for GCSE, it’s simple.
1. Use the teachers own submitted rank order of candidates ONLY. Teachers should have taken into account t their estimated grades and all other factors in deciding this.
2. Award the grade boundaries per centre as last year, I. E. If a centre got 5% grade As or 9s, similarly this year.
3. Allow centres to appeal whole cohorts ONLY if they can prove this years cohort was significantly better than last.
Too many beaurocrats and too much data adjustment has not helped, though I blame teachers most of all. I am one. Good results = increase in pay. Massive grade inflation. Is unfair to candidates.
It’s unfair to candidates, honest teachers, honest schools, employers (how can they trust any exam achievement?), universities (ditto) – everybody except the cheats and the corrupt s..ts in government and the exam boards who let it happen
I was a principal examiner for years and fought unremittingly against grade inflation, but with little success. In one paper I saw the threshold mark needed for an A grade drop from 50 to 42 in a couple of years.
Has any one done any statistical research in to the change in cases to hospitalisation rate?
For example, if you take the number of identified cases in April & May, and calculate the hospitalisation rate for those cases, then compare against the same date for June & July.
It seems like we are finding 1000s of cases per week, but hospitalisation is far lower. Surely this would assuage fears of a 2nd wave, or might even tell us something about the virility progression of the virus.
E.g In April/May, if there were 50,000 cases found and 2000 hospitalisations, then that would be a hospitalisation rate of 4%.
The problem is that ‘cases’ are simply people having certain bits of RNA in their system – bits that have only s possible relationship to a virus, let alone an actual infection or illness.
Thus it doesn’t form a firm basis for judging the actual level of infection.
It was never designed for that purpose.
Don’t let truth get in the way of a good story!
/sarc
Hi, yes I’ve recently started plotting the hospital admissions per 1000 positive tests,using figures from the coronavirus.data.gov.uk website. I’ve been doing other graphs as well (of NHS England & ONS deaths etc) & sending them to Hector Drummond to post on his website, but what with holidays etc so far he hasn’t been able to upload any of my latest graphs, which include the admission rate graphs.
I’ve uploaded the latest graph here
?dl=0 As you can see, the hospitalisation rate was fairly steady up until late June, but since then has steadily fallen by 75%!
Edit – if you click the “comment image” bit, it does take you to the graph I’ve uploaded to dropbox – even though it looks like a broken link!
Thanks for this – I think that is quite a powerful graph and ought to be wheeled out whenever people fret about “cases” – a “case” now has very different consequences for healthcare than a “case” back in March/April, and we should treat the numbers accordingly, weighted in some way.
Thanks Julian, please feel free to use/post the graph anywhere you think it might be useful – and the same goes for everyone else! I’m not on twitter, and I’ve avoided Facebook since getting abused by lockdown zealot now-ex friends back in March/April, so the only place my graphs have been published is on Hector Drummond’s website – but if they help, please do share them!
Excellent analysis. Glad you didn’t include the ‘suspected’ cases which Wales count as admissions which get fed into the UK total on the Govt. Dashboard and then onto the headlines of the MSM… they are so high they sometimes exceed (on a daily basis) the total number of infections found in the whole of the country in all settings – often doubling the UK daily admissions total (despite only linked to only 6% of the population).
I just cannot understand why our official numbers (UK) are so diverse from one country to the next – well paid number crunchers wouldn’t get away with this sort of thing in the private sector – it would be P45 time!
Thanks Christopher. I’d missed your posts!
Considering there’s so much more testing going on, your graph is extremely eloquent!
Thanks Cheezilla, that’s really kind of you
Hector’s now back from his holidays, and I sent him the Week 31 graphs on Tuesday afternoon, so they will hopefully be up on his site before too long!
I’ve uploaded the graph of hospital admissions here
?dl=0 and the graph of lab-confirmed tests here
?dl=0 so you can see how they compare. The hospital admissions are decreasing exponentially, as are the positive tests until late June – but then the tests start rising while the hospital admissions keep falling.
The two sheep sign … well, here in Torquay we get plagued by complete nonsense from our local council like “two Hercule Poirot walking sticks”, “one Basil Fawlty”.
Oh God…jaunty humour whist our civil liberties are destroyed.
I’m pretty sure it’s a joke image used by other sceptics as a criticism of the sheep-like mentality, not an official sign put up by local authorities.
You can buy the same image on a T-shirt from Carl Vernon here:
https://teespring.com/socially-distanced-sheep?tsmac=store&tsmic=official-carl-vernon&pid=377&cid=100074
I don’t know whether Carl Vernon actually created the image himself or is just using it from other sources.
I thought you might be winding us up but I’ve checked it out and they did tweet that about Basil Fawlty!
Reposted from yesterday late
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8617293/Fauci-says-new-study-key-dies-COVID-19.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus
Fauci has discovered the T cells
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/04/science.abd3871/tab-pdf
Fauci is a curious old cove. He will be 80 this year . He reminds me of an 80 year old doctor I once worked with ; rather set in his ways, long since given up reflecting on any changes , prone to errors, slow and not really very good but given a lot of slack because he had become a part of the furniture .
I was amazed Fauci was still in such a senior position after so many administration changes and his age. Then when you look into his background and contacts he suddenly looks pretty untouchable. How much he will benefits financially from the crisis via his personal shareholdings and patents are also far from clear.
It crosses my mind tgat stimulants may be used by certain super human ever lasting polticals. There are a few suspicious ‘out liers’.
Why bring in new blood when you can get er new blood!
US and especially Fauci doesn’t believe anything unless it is done in the US. He could never swallow the national humiliation that the French discovered HIV and not his disciple Gallo who wanted the patent in testing to get rich but never discovered the virus. They did not trust any non US PCR test for C-19 until after several blunders they finally got it. Many articles on T cells immunity published outside US but this one from California. And most importantly even the Director of NIH,Collins, wrote recently an article about T cells immunity in C-19.
Fauci ‘discovered’ that AIDS could be passed by casual social interaction putting the frighteners on Gays, their families and friends for years in the process.
Such a kindly demeanour – he could be your Godfather.
Protecting the Model, of the invested Establishment, for the Protection of the people, may look like a racket, but its really one big Family.
There is a book by Ghislaine Lanctot – The Medical Mafia – that would likely find a much more willing and appreciative readership today.
In checking I had her name spelled right I met this link:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/canadian-doctor-h1n1-vaccination-a-eugenics-weapon-for-massive-targeted-reduction-of-the-world-population/14312
Don’t let the extreme (?) wording of the link deny you the wider view.
“I am emerging from a long silence on the subject of vaccination, because I feel that, this time, the stakes involved are huge. The consequences may spread much further than anticipated,” writes Lanctôt, who believes the A(H1N1) virus will be used in a pandemic concocted and orchestrated by the WHO, an international organization that serves military, political and industrial interests.
Lanctôt warns that the elite and their minions will introduce a compulsory vaccination that will contain a deadly virus and this will be used specifically as a eugenics weapon for “massive and targeted reduction of the world population.” Moreover, a pandemic will also be used to further establish martial law and a police state, according to Lanctôt, and activate concentration camps “built to accommodate the rebellious” and eventually transfer power from all nations to a single United Nations government and thus fulfill the sinister plans of the New World Order.
Hmmm. I was just suggesting this might be the real 2nd wave a couple of hours ago! When Uncle Bills says, gleefully, that we won’t miss the next one…….
Is this something to do with supporting the new vaccines? Fauci is up to the neck with Uncle Bill so I can’t believe this is as innocent as it looks.
Over the last 1-2 weeks I have been re-reading Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago and the following passages are very, very pertinent and relevant to the insane times we live in:
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good, or else that it’s a well- considered act in conformity with natural law. Fortunately, it is the nature of the human being to seek a justification for his actions.
Ideology- that is what gives evildoing its long sought justification and gives the evil doer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps make his act seem good instead of bad in his own and others’ eyes, so that he won’t hear reproaches and curses but will receive praise and honours.
We have to condemn publicly the very idea that some people have the right to oppress others. In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations. It is for this reason, and not because of the “weakness of indoctrinational work,” that they are growing up “indifferent.” Young people are acquiring the conviction that foul deeds are never punished on earth, that they always bring prosperity.
I see the lockdownistas and the mask zealots very much in the second and third quote – they think they’re doing good but in reality they are very much an active participant in this evil. We have to resist them at all costs, even doing one thing like telling people that they’re exempt from muzzle wearing when we see them in obvious distress and helping them find ways to get a lanyard or boycotting companies and writing to them why, etc.Perhaps through our words and deeds, we will get through other people especially the young that they have a duty to resist and that we will never be forgiven if this tyranny is allowed to embed itself.
It’s the young that are the greatest zombies. Masked, trembling, cowardly, hopeless.
Agree. Unfortuately you get the same in the age group that ought to know better as well.
They are not shown Solzhenitsyn, especially not at University, too dangerous.
The fear-believed evil in our own heart and mind splits the mind.
Fear of hatred within is condemned to seek love ‘without’. But masking in virtue only hollows and lays waste – while seeking and finding scapegoats and enemies and threats amidst diversionary strategies of a masked agenda driven by fear of evil within.
When we cast out in story we create the script.
The projection of the hated as a means to get rid of it or to attack and deny it in others is the way to KEEP it or persist in a split mind while claiming moral necessity or justified grievance.
Jesus said ‘resist ye not evil’.
He meant – do not become defined and polarised by what you hate and fear.
He says a lot that becomes recognisable to a willingness to heal a split mind.
But it is our recognition at the heart that is key – not in appeals to authority.
Language can be used differenty – and more so in translation.
I see that what we resist, persists.
And that what we neglect or leave unused or unchosen, fades from non use.
The basis from which to accept a choice or decision wisely is wholeness.
Joy aligns in wholeness.
By aligning in our joy, is a capacity of discernment available.
But when one part of a mind is battling or coercive upon another – there is no free attention and the currently active narrative frames the response of a narrative reinforcement.
Allister Heath’s piece is brilliant but he does seem to misunderstand that the Swedish strategy is also about reaching herd immunity:
“Politicians can react in one of three ways to a pandemic. They can do nothing, and allow the disease to rip until herd immunity is reached. Quite rightly, no government has pursued this policy, out of fear of mass deaths and total social and economic collapse. The second approach involves imposing proportionate restrictions to facilitate social distancing, banning certain sorts of gatherings while encouraging and informing the public. The Swedes pursued a version of this centrist strategy: there was a fair bit of compulsion, but also a focus on retaining normal life and keeping schools open. The virus was taken very seriously, but there was no formal lockdown. Tegnell is one of the few genuine heroes of this crisis: he identified the correct trade-offs.”
There is also still a widespread failure to appreciate that the epidemic in many badly hit countries including England had peaked and gone into decline well before lockdown or even much social distancing began, as Prof Carl Heneghan has pointed out. This is presumably due to already in mid March reaching the herd immunity threshold. The point is we did let it rip. The lockdown was far too late to help.
“There is also still a widespread failure to appreciate that the epidemic in many badly hit countries including England had peaked and gone into decline well before lockdown or even much social distancing began, as Prof Carl Heneghan has pointed out. “
Was thinking about this a day or two ago. My recollection is that very early on the figures suggested this – I floated it on Peter Hitchens’ blog in around mid-April I think, based on the decline in death numbers being too soon to be a result of the lockdown.
That fact didn’t get as much attention as it should, but I seem to recall you were on it early as well.
Then I remember there were a couple of studies questioning whether the time to death numbers were wrong for Europe (it should be longer), and this was used to cast doubt n the argument that the downturn was actually before the lockdowm, but more recently I’ve seen no references to those studies and the early downturn seems generally unquestioned. Is that correct, or just a reflection of my own closer attention to sceptical opinions?
What happened to those studies suggesting longer times to death? Or am I misremembering how it all went?
Yes, this has been clear from as soon as the deaths peaked in mid-April. Not sure about those studies though I have heard the same. But if the interval is longer then that puts the peak even further before lockdown.
Sorry, mis-wrote, meant shorter, obviously.
Just dug through my messages and found the studies in question, together with an explanatory note I copied that someone (possibly you, or someone using a similar name here) wrote here back in early May, I think:
“The survey ‘Features of 16,749 hospitalized UK patients with COVID-19 using the ISARIC WHO Clinical Characterization Protocol’ finds average 4 days of symptoms pre-admission and 7 days hospital stay (all patients, both deceased and surviving). The incubation period averages 5-6 days – see the Covid-19 wiki article for references. Also in NYC the death curve lags the admission curve by 5 days. The report ‘Characteristics of COVID-19 patients dying in Italy’ found average 10 days between symptoms and death. Put this data together and you get average around 16 days from infection to death corroborated from a number of sources.”
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1
https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronavirus/bollettino/Report-COVID-2019_20_marzo_eng.pdf
Right, yes, that was me. I put this to Nic Lewis the other day and he came back with a helpful comment:
Unfortunately the first paper you cite gives no information about the time in hospital for those who died, so it cannot be used for estimating the time from admission to death. One commenter asked “What was the median number of days between admission and death”. The reply from the senior author was “We removed this value as it is not informative when many patients have not completed their admission.”
I’m not sure that the apparent lag between hospital admission and death curves is a fair measure of the mean delay between admission and death given that the distribution thereof is long-tailed.
I’m familiar with the Italian report you mention. You say it found an average of 10 days between symptoms and death. That is not correct. It found the median to be 10 to 12 days (depending on the date of the report). For a long tailed distribution, the average (mean) is somewhat higher than the median.
I think there was probably considerable variation between different European countries in the distribution of the time from symptom onset to death. One of the peer reviewers of the Flaxman et al paper, which used a distribution with a mean of 18.8 (changed during revision to 17.8) days, commented that European data suggested this was too low, being “smaller than preliminary estimates available from hospitalization data in Europe (about 5-6 days from onset to hospitalization, at least 2 weeks in the hospital).
It is quite possible that the time between symptom onset and death was atypically low in March and April in Italy, but I think due more to the hospital system being overwhelmed in the worst affected areas rather than to a higher proportion of more vulnerable people being infected early on. There was little change in the median age of cumulative diagnosed Italian patients between mid-April and mid-July, the median age at death increased slightly, and there not much change in the proportion of dying patients with different numbers of co-morbidities.
https://www.nicholaslewis.org/why-herd-immunity-to-covid-19-is-reached-much-earlier-than-thought-update/
He says the interval is more like 24 days, and that seems to be what Imperial College use as well. I must admit I still don’t really understand why the death curves lagged the admissions curves by about a week if the interval is more like two weeks, but the statisticians seem to think it makes sense given the other data.
OK thanks.That discussion meant I backed off using that point for a while and depended more heavily on other data from eg Germany to make the point that lockdowns came after the downturn in infections. But as time went on and I didn’t see them used against the point, I assumed they had either been withdrawn or superceded. More recently I have taken the view that it’s pretty uncontroversial now that the infections turned down before lockdown, here and in other countries.
Let it rip through to reach herd immunity? Social Darwinism?
Haiti did that. No lockdown(a few days in May,they gave up). Nothing.
Very quick wash through.No mass deaths. Haiti is probably as bad as it has always been.Not worse.This is a much more complex issue.
https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1292486892823470084/photo/1
Which is why Whitty and Vallance delayed lockdown for a long as they could. They were doing the right thing at the time. They turned into Tweedledum and Tweedlevee after the lockdown.
What do people think about creating local branches of Lockdown Sceptics? We could meet for real, and give each other confidence and encouragement in talking to coronaphobes, as well as sharing, maybe, things like strategies, handouts and resources for talking to/giving to frightened people, as well as providing emotional support, handshakes, and even, where appropriate, hugs to each other (and that’s from someone who was not the hugging type, but I am now). I’m in the south west.
That’s what I was trying to do with “A Bit Fishy”. Trying to get locals together to change their friends, families, neighbours, etc minds one by one.
Given how reasonable the discourse is here compared to the comment trails on the newspapers, I think I’d definitely get on with a lot of the people here. And I’m not generally that sociable…
I feel the same.
Agree with this!
Ditto!
Coronaphobes -I love it ! much better than bedwetters, I think, more precise.
Also, more tactful. I do not like the term bedwetters, as it is mocking people with continence problems. And, frankly, as someone who initially bought into the government’s Project Fear, I wasn’t far from shitting myself in the early stages.
One term I really do not think is helpful in any context is ‘sheeple’ it is both arrogant and patronising , there may be many reasons someone does not share your views, but lumping all such people together in the same woolly flock does not help your argument along one little bit .
Valid point, Tonys. Apart from that, as a farm vet’s daughter it is also insulting to sheep, which in general are more intelligent and discerning than people think! (They wouldn’t approve of masks either, because sheep rely quite heavily on face recognition to distinguish individuals from each other – applies to other sheep, people, dogs and some other species they have been tested with)!!!
Sorry, folks, but this is a sceptics’ site and we will call our enemies what we bloody well like.
What you call them, here and elsewhere, is equally your business and I won’t quarrel with it.
Pejorative terms serve private mythology and don’t serve addressing the issue truly. (But divert to a blame agenda).
Consciously discerned language would do a lot to clarify and unify our minds – but the emotional demand to let off steam is the lack of a better option – or the indulgence of a sense of temporary reality adjustment in which the frustrated or intimidated one venets their splee amidst company that sings in the same choir.
I prefer true witness – that can of course be open to question and dialogue.
Why be framed in the narrative of false or erroneous assertions? – IE as an ‘anti’ or ‘denier’. I don’t see the support for, and the substance of, the covid-19 assertions, but I see a LOT of noise targeted to induce emotional investment by reaction – that used somewhat trusted institutions to persist in its ‘reconditioning’ that for the most part are still doing so.
The ‘political’ agenda of which has a lot of support from the identity set in managed fear and protection.
The state is a PPP under global jurisdiction. But ‘partnership’ implies free agreement rather than an offer you cant refuse.
It’s a useful shorthand for discussing among ourselves. As you say, a tad patronising to use to someone’s face.
Who lives the world in form but has terror stalking at his heart?
When a feared shadow is revealed harmless we laugh in relief and release – but the fear is not undone.
For many here it shifted from a virus to a top-down agenda of deceit and coercion that has set in motion (or removed the chocks) to a crash that has unprecedented change and challenge. Although near extinctions are not unprecedented nor collapse of civilisations.
Well done for seeing the light.
I am not keen on the bedwetter term myself, as it is unlikely to change any minds. Those in positions of power deserve our vitriol, arguably so do the most aggressive lockdown and mask zealots, but the neutral/gullible/apathetic masses we should probably try a less ad hominem approach on.
Agree. We are not going to win anybody over by calling them a bedwetter. Coronaphobes, hopefully, in increasing numbers, will find their way to this site. If they find their fears being mocked they will turn away. If we show compassion towards those millions of people who have been done over by our government then they will warm to us and our messages.
A phobia is an irrational fear. I therefore doubt that bedwetters will take kindly to that term.
Yes, I agree with your criticism of me! I’d had that thought myself. Calling someone a coronaphobe is just as unlikely to win them over as calling them a bedwetter. Maybe slightly less mocking. I’ll try and think of a suitable term.
Moving sideways from this – and I think readers will like this – my son has come up with a great response if he is challenged for not wearing a mask. He intends to tell the challenger that he suffers from ovinaphobia: the fear of sheep.
Even coronaphobe is condescending. Don’t forget that these people are the majority and so encompass educated, decent people in the main. To be called a coronaphobe would be insulting and may put them off.
If you want to go out and change people’s minds then you must aim to change the low hanging fruit first not the staunch believers of the official narrative.
There will always be a loose edge like stripping wallpaper. They will already have a few questions. Answer those and they may be won over.
The more who are won over then the more who go home and seed doubt with their partner or work colleague. Then they in turn become curious, etc, etc.
We MUST change the minds of the ordinary people one by one ourselves. The MSM will never do it until they fear the people. Like that comedy (Bananas) where the news reporter had the photo on his wall and flipped it around to show whatever leader took power that day.
I agree with all this, LT, and the above comments. Slagging off people who have fallen victim to the constant fearmongering will not help us. Talking to them as human beings just may help them start to see the truth. This is our task – talk to people as much as we can and spread the word.
On that subject, I might mention that I absolutely hate going in shops now and I really have to nerve myself to go on a bus. I do not in the least fear people having a go at me for not wearing a mask but I find the sight of all the blank, faceless shoppers and passengers very depressing if not enraging and I have to restrain myself from having a go at them for being collaborators with the encroaching totalitarianism.
All my instincts are to stay at home, order online, avoid the hell that ordinary life has become. We are compromising a bit by avoiding going to the largest town in the area and asking for a home delivery of some items from 2 local shops but we’ll continue to brave other local shops and supermarkets, modelling our maskless state as much as we can and as long as we’re able.
It’s intolerable isn’t it. A sea of pointlessly masked up compliant fools, everywhere. Shopping was never that great but now, well. Why bother. I bought shoelaces on ebay yesterday. I have avoided town since just before face-nappy day. I might give it a go when I feel up for a fight. However that said, there is NOTHING I want from any of the shops in town. They are all crap.
This crap has definitely stopped any frittering away of money we used to do, not to mention it’s knocked-back what was a bit of a cafe habit when we were out shopping! It’s the businesses I feel sorry for – the decline of real shops will continue and the online giants will profit. Plus, we see far fewer people now we’re not regularly on the buses and in shops which I believe is really bad for both our physical and mental health. (Mind you, we do walk and cycle more….)
If these shops don’t make it clear in their mask demand notices that they understand there are exemptions, they’ll deserve to go bust.
I feel the same. As I’ve said here before, I’m currently taking the soft option and wearing a snood when doing essential shopping. I’m not going to go into detail, but I’ve never been mentally ill in my life before, but lockdown has damaged me seriously, and I’m trying to manage my recovery carefully, so I don’t want to risk a setback by getting into a confrontation. I’m not a coward and will gladly take people on (verbally), but I would anxiously ruminate for days over such challenges. So, I know wrongly, I feel embarrassed for myself and somewhat ashamed, as I did last night in Tesco, wandering round the shop with my face covered. I imagine people thinking “look at that tosser, just like all the rest”, but, of course, I know rationally that they are not. For one thing, I’m over-estimating my own significance! The specific reason why I’m responding to your comment is that I too see the faceless masses as corroborators and unthinking, but I reply to my own depressing thought by telling myself that they are just playing the game: almost all of them pull off their masks the moment they step out of the shops. They just don’t want to risk a £100 fine. Personally, I don’t much mind wearing the snood. I bought it for a winter trip to Iceland (the country) and I kid myself I’m still there when I use it. I get more upset by others wearing them for the above reasons. I’m in the south west, and, pleasingly, I noticed in the very quiet Tesco last night about four people not masked. That’s progress. I also noticed the store manager constantly fiddling with his mask.
I sympathise with your predicament. Nothing is easy in this situation. I know several people who don’t want to wear a mask but they go along with it because they don’t want a fine or don’t want confrontation etc. Unfortunately, this is a cop-out. If more people don’t stand up to this, the oppression will only get worse.
As a way out, I strongly recommend losing the snood and getting an exemption badge or lanyard. You have no legal need to explain why you’re exempt even in the unlikely event of being asked by a police officer. Nobody else can legally ask you and it’s illegal for anyone to challenge someone not wearing a mask.
Once you’ve done it once, it gets easier. The only horrible thing is seeing all the others!
I appreciate your suggestion. I’ve seriously considered an exemption badge, but that feels a bit like buying into the farce, accepting the government’s rules. As someone else said here, though, if the rules are stupid, then have no qualms about abusing them. I suspect, however, that the rules on exemption have been deliberately written vaguely to allow anybody to ignore/circumvent them. The gov.uk website says “where putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress”, so I certainly qualify for that one. As I said though, I’m just not up for confrontation just now in my fragile state. I really don’t know.
Do what you can.
Be free in your own mind. Everything else follows from that.
Aremen, I found your comment very touching and I totally get where you are coming from. I nearly lost it mentally when I knew the mandatory gags were going to happen. I stocked up on shopping so I wouldn’t have to go out as I knew the first couple of weeks of this would be when the zealots would be about. My first muzzle fee shop was nerve racking but fine and it’s got easier since. Today, I breezed in and answered with a smiley ‘No thanks, I don’t wear them!’
I know how you feel. I have been avoiding non-essential shopping since 15 June but the mandatory muzzling has just hardened it. I have also been avoiding museums, art galleries and heritage sites, in fact I’ve just written to both the British Museum (where I am a member) and the British Library(where I am a reader) informing them of my boycott. Funny as I work in a museum as well and I do feel sorry for our visitors especially those I see obviously in distress and very uncomfortable. What really makes me angry though are children being muzzled and I really shudder to think what damaged is being done to them and to be honest, I won’t be surprised when they wake up and they turn on the very people who betrayed them – their parents and society at large.
Yes, children in muzzles: Cruel and heartless.
Our society will never be forgiven for that.
I agree , but I am not having much success changing people’s minds. It’s helpful when fellow LS post their success stories here.
my success story from yesterday was first weighing out and collecting my vegetables from out local organic community farm veg collection space without a muzzle (we have ridiculously been asked to wear them, in a barn!) but then I just stood there by the entrance and smiled at people as they approached and waited their turn (only 3 allowed in at present.also ridiculous), almost everyone took off their mask to smile and talk. A few asked if they needed to wear a mask. I responded with ‘only if you want to. I didn’t’. All of the people who asked then felt bolstered enough to not wear one. I think most people just want to stay on the right side of the rules, don’t want to upset others and maybe haven’t given it any critical thought?
‘Educated and decent’ perhaps, but they have allowed and encouraged a fascist takeover.
When speaking of them, the term is ‘Fuck ’em”. When speaking to them, obviously a more civilised approach gets better results.
We simply need a term to symbolise “them” as opposed to “us”. “Us” is simple – we are lockdown sceptics.
I suppose non-sceptics is inoffensive and could work?
On the other hand, while many of the non-sceptics are genuinely scared because they have been successfully brainwashed and haven’t had the good fortune to discover alternative sources of trustworthy information, plenty of them are positively revelling in the drama of it all and deserve every derogatory term we can throw at them.
Name calling will help its targets justify denying credibility to the witness, messenger or evidence. But only if they want to seek and find all the justifications for persisting in their current state.
Name calling operates a masking in virtue – as the ‘judge’.
Narrative competitions run polarised identities.
Those who frame the dominant narrative farm the energy of such human batteries. Currently ‘populism and globalism’.
Name calling that is adopted and used as currency operates a ‘mind capture’. Not unlike hacking the unwary by back-door exploits so as to set up a bot-net to activate as needed.
Aren’t they more “coronaphiles” as they are loving really being able to bully people about it. From what I can see it’s mainly the FBPE brigade and Europhiles using this for their own agenda, as they believe destroying the economy mean it’s more likely that our only option will be to rejoin the EU again so that the economy recovers.
Coronafile- I like it, as you say for the bullies, the enforcers, the corona Karens. I think it’s possible to be both a coronafile and a coronaphobic at the same time; those ones in the supermarket queue giving the corona death stare: don’t stand so close to me, get back there on your corona floor spot
Public Health people are phobia driven neurotics.
Love the pic!
‘The New Normals,’ as suggested by a writer at Off Guardian.
sounds good Aremen – i’m in Bristol – but can travel (have campervan and can go wherever)
I’d go for this idea. I’m in Berkshire, wife also a sceptic, and we’d be happy to meet up with other like-minded people within reasonable distance. Also another scepticla couple up the road from us would probably take part.
Cardiff, Bristol, Berkshire so far, allso ‘south-west’, though not sure how far SW. Suppose we meet up somewhere just off the M4?
I’m in the south west too.
Somerset..looks like there’s something about the south west and scepticism!
Yo. Bath. Have wheels.
great idea. I would definitely be up for that.
I would be up for that – great idea. I’m in Cardiff.
Look at KBF forum. We’re in the middle of getting the West Yorkshire people together. So far, we’ve found a suitable daytime venue. Waiting for people to respond now so we can set a date …….
Look up your local area. https://www.keepbritainfree.com/forum/kbf-local
Thanks for that. However, nothing in Berkshire so far, it seems. I’d have to start one. OK, someone has to.
Great idea – linking up with the Keep Britain Free supporters.
It is indeed. I spend more time here, this site is unique. But the kbf got the local groups thing going first, and here in Sussex it is going well.
Good idea. I’m in Wiltshire and would be honoured to shake your hand. We have to fight back.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20078949v1.full.pdf
“The Chinese version of the RT-PCR test had a conspicuous rate of false negative results, likely missing between 15% and 29% of patients with COVID-19. For a patient with a prior probability of COVID-19 greater than 18%, at least two negative test results would be needed to lower the chances of COVID-19 below 5%. Caution is advised in generalizing these findings to other versions of the RT-PCR test that are being used in diverse geographic regions”
I think Drosten’s test in Germany and other current ones all have problems with sensitivity although not of the magnitude as in the Chinese tests. New Zealand and Faroe Islands all require two negative tests to leave the quarantine. Also in clinical practice during the pandemic, clinicians never relied on one neg PCR test in a typical C-19 case and always took a second PCR test to rule out C-19.
The interesting question, reading this now old paper from April,is that the Chinese missed 20 % of the infections. Really believe that they have extinguished C-19?
No, but we already knew that China – just like every other country – has had many undocumented infections. That’s one of the things serology studies tell us. China probably missed at least 90% of the infections.
Really heartened to see the stock of the excellent Professor Heneghan rising in the MSM. The revision of the death toll still over exaggerates people who have died “from” rather than “with” covid but it is good news that people might be beginning to realise that the criteria for registering deaths related to covid vary enormously from country to country and the figures are completely unreliable. The article in the Telegraph about false positives is an excellent piece of clear journalism that made it clear and explicable to my ten year old son how testing is unreliable when done in such high numbers with so little actual virus left.
The governments all over remind me of children who were deprived of playing with new toys: they got a new toy, now they just can’t put it down and it’s the only toy they’ve got!
Clinical practice is out of the window altogether: you don’t test people for a disease unless they present with signs or symptoms of that disease. That’s the end of it!
If the virus is so deadly, why do the government need to test over a hundred thousand people a day who are not ill in order to find cases?
Indeed—so deadly that you need to have a sophisticated test to determine whether you actually have it!
If you only tested people who were ill in hospital you would just be proving that the disease is almost gone as the numbers are falling off a cliff.
Testing allows them to create the narrative of a second wave.
Testing will also be used to conflate flu and Covid come November.
Actually, it doesn’t look like they are conflating colds and flu with covid in the official stats currently. Thankfully.
If the disease has simply disappeared then the politicians can’t take credit for “beating” it; indeed it will make it even more explicit that the Swedes were right all along..
Autopilot and wilful confirmation bias. You’ve got a narrative – God forbid it’s a fiction.
And why are scientists advocating deliberately infecting people with the disease to test a vaccine? As for the new nonsense about long term impacts, obviously none of these people have ever had a proper, lose a stone and a half dose of the flu…
You bring up a good point. Those vaccines might end up creating another virus or a new wave of infections different than Covid-19. We must refuse all attempts to vaccinate us. A categorical no way José.
Because they love to pretend that they are concerned with your well being and wasting your tax monies at the same time.
What is slowly becoming apparent is that for all the pomp and circumstance of scientific theory, scientific reality is a lot more ‘ugly’ and down to earth.
One being: If you don’t have the right tools to measure stuff don’t be saying you know things when you don’t.
It’s even simpler : know what you’re measuring.
Such as : don’t assume that strings of RNA indicate a viral infection.
He’s great. I sent him an encouraging email the other day and got a reply!
The Telegraph is one of the very few papers that is actually trying to challenge the official narrative!
Sky News Australia (Alan Jones) has been really good too!
The madhouse in going into overdrive in New Zealand. If you want to see a real life horror film watch St Jacinda in action. All covid+ people are moved into ” quaratine sites ” with their close family members.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/video.cfm?c_id=1&gal_cid=1&gallery_id=223078
This is the only logical conclusion when you set a “one life is too many” approach to a virus. Jacinda has set the terms and been lauded for it in the MSM but now she and the New Zealand people have to live with the long-term implications of such a simplistic approach.
I wonder what NZ’s ‘flu mortality is at present…
Saving lives at all costs is utterly immoral and unnatural, and has never been what human societies and civilisations have done throughout the whole of history. Plus it doesn’t work, making it doubly immoral.
What’s happening in NZ is pure evil.
Spending the rest of eternity giving terrified glances over their shoulders.
Of course it is obvious now that HandyCock’s decision to enforce masks in shops was based on what looks like a slower declining death toll, if we are to give him any credit for anything (please redirect your rotten tomatoes!)
But now it looks insipidly stupid
I thought it was all and only about making people feel safer to shop. I am sure BJ said so.
He gave two reasons when announced to the HoC.
One was a weasil worded argument that some evidence now exists that they may possibly reduce transmision. Maybe.
The other was, as you say, to increase confidence in people using the high street. They probably had an Imperial College computer model showing that 500,000 extra people would go to the local shops rather than buy online if the law was introduced. Unfortunately, due to a bug, the model crashed when trying to calculate the number of people who decided to no longer bother. So they just assumed it would be zero.
Actually, one moment’s thought would have seen that as a monumentaly stupid hypothesis : widen use of a symbol of fear to reassure people!
Hence proof that it’s a psy-op!
I thought it was all and only about making people feel safer to shop
But both my sister and a near neighbour have said that (anti) social distancing in shops now seems to have gone out the window – as if people are SO convinced that muzzles give them protection that any, previous, sensible measures are no longer needed…
Sensible? shrinking in terror from anybody less than six feet away from you?
Do you remember how the ludicrous six-foot rule was derived?
Sorry, not the best choice of words! By “sensible” I meant not breathing down other peoples necks, and just keeping some distance – the sort of thing the Swedes were doing without being ordered.
Fair enough.
Brits never did like to get too close to other people.It ‘s built into us.
My OH has been out and about on his bike buying eggs from local farms this morning. He met an elderly LS who we’ve become friendly with since this rubbish started. She is the widow of a doctor and she told him that people used to phone day and night and her husband would always go out even if it seemed minor because ‘they sound worried’. She says she is grieving for the NHS, as well she might. So many people have no idea that it is as good as gone and will not be coming back.
She also told him that her NHS worker daughter won’t even enter her garden – they have to meet in the park. Our friend described her as ‘brainwashed’. Her son, meanwhile, has come over regularly even during the first few weeks and he always hugs her. She says she’s struggling but always glad to talk to the likes of us! OH told her we’re struggling too and there are two of us.
Speaking of brainwashed, he then went in the PO. The owner, cringing behind his plastic screens with his visor on is someone we would have considered at least a close acquaintance, if not exactly a friend. He greeted OH coldly as if he barely knew him but didn’t challenge his maskless state. We assume that’s because his 2 co-workers have told him we’re exempt but he obviously regarded OH as a pariah for putting him in such terrible danger. How Is it going to be possible for people like him ever to recover?
To be a bit more cheerful, we are now determined to carry out our plan to load up the touring bikes and head for the (Welsh) hills next week, cycle-camping. We really need a break now, having been banged up here for 5 months and never going further than bloody Marple (once!) All we need to do is sort out a route with open and welcoming campsites en route and maybe a pub or 2 that hasn’t gone the full coronapanic. Please wish us luck!
Enjoy. There’s little enough around!
Cheers!
The sturgeon daily puke has now become political. The recent train tragedy is currently been spoken on in concerned hushed tones. I am sick to deatb her muscling in on the nations daily life. At least westminster got that right.
Today. The return of the R!
National R rate is 1.3 according to the un named model she is spouting at us. Don’t we wear masks in shops what is she talking about? Key word ‘model’.
Noticing her right eye seems possible under stress.
Orkney cluster. Didnt catch numbers. Clusters are inevitable and prove our test and trace works wonders. Don’t unduly alarmed but don’t be complacent. This virus will spread quickly…
Blah pubs … blah… hospitality. Considerable risk … house parties 8 people from 3 housholds only under 12 you cant get within 2 metres above no, no.
Its harder for us to enforce inside peoples homes. We have evidence unspecified that the virus doez like a boogie in the lounge with sharon from next door.
PPE. Scotland will be making its own 223 sugical masks. Skull and bobes 233. Other masks being made and saving money too… gee why did you not do that before pissing our money up the wall.
3 points done blah facts blah stil stil still rule of threes.my god she is boring.
If you are outdoors it may well be around you so think about that and how you will act. Mental image of performance dance.
Covid briefing covering a train incident. This is now a sinister daily nannying of the nation. Political and oppressive.
Questions just happening now… this is daily it is a horror shop. Just told the nsyion Westminster need to either give more borrowing powers to Scotland or else send a money transfer. Sturgeon would help but cannot.
It’s a good measure of an idiot : talking R numbers when they haven’t a clue that it’s a soft theoretical concept, whilst *never* looking at the available hard data.
Can we just separate from Scotland and let them get on with their stupidness.
Just fucking ignore her. Ignore every word that comes out of her tartan cakehole.
Do not ask
If people in the crashed train were masked.
They were
I will swear.
The train may have derailed
But the corpses’ face masks never failed.
I thought you might be interested to read the response I received from my local MP regarding an email I sent her asking why the government (and indeed the world) were continuing to scare the living daylights out of everyone, and failing to notice the generation of global poverty, death, and misery that is on the doorstep. I’ve had to post it over 2 posts as I seem unable to post two photos at a time. Incidentally the 2 responses I previously received (both by email) were:1st: a heartfelt personal plea to give tattoo studios a date to restart. (My daughter has her own studio) which was met with an email stock reply which only got my back up even further; 2nd:a letter in support of a campaign to try and get our local lido open, which was met with an email which was considered and conciliatory, but still missed the point, and really shouldn’t have got the time of day; and now this actual letter. I feel a letter may have been sent as it is harder to share? I particularly like the start of paragraph 8 that states, ‘Lockdown has also ensured a speedier economic recovery,…’ but I guess the letter is dated 10th August, so the government couldn’t possible have known that our economy had shrunk by 20% (so far) by the following day.
“Lockdown has also ensured a speedier economic recovery”
I think that this is about as Alice Through The Looking Glass as you can get.
I mean …. there’s bullshit and then there’s … Cuckoo!
The reply shows that our MPs are not of this world – they’re either from another planet or galaxy.
They have long tails and vertical pupils.
From Heath’s piece:
“They can do nothing, and allow the disease to rip until herd immunity is reached. Quite rightly, no government has pursued this policy, out of fear of mass deaths and total social and economic collapse. “
Was this fear plausible at the time? There was never really any convincing (non-modelling) suggestion that this was a disease that could cause mass deaths (depending on what you mean by that term of course) or societal collapse. Obviously you could make up scenarios in which that could happen, but the most plausible assumption in February backed up by the early data from China (interpreted reasonably) was that this was a flu-level disease.
This is not just hindsight, it was said at the time by experts (such as Wittkowski) who, with hindsight, were the best guides to how we should have responded.
You can certainly argue that government should take a precautionary approach to some degree, and in that light I don’t strongly object to the conclusion that Sweden’s approach was probably correct. but even Sweden has lost out quite a lot by undue fear.
Seems to me if we had adopted an aggressively unfear-based response, refusing to change behaviour much except around specifically known vulnerable groups such as care homes and trying otherwise to keep calm and carry on as much as possible, and actively looking down on people who spread fear, it’s unlikely we would have suffered much more from the disease than we did or will (though it would have been compressed in time), and we would have been infinitely healthier as a society coming out.
By now, nobody except some medical analysts reviewing the data would probably even be particularly conscious that anything much had happened.
“out of fear of mass deaths and total social and economic collapse”
Which is exactly where we are right now
Absolutely not plausible. The Chinese CDC released a large data set in late February (almost 80,000 patients) and the Italian government released a smaller data set early in March. Both showed very clearly that severe illness and death from Covid-19 have a very strong age gradient and that the vast majority of these cases have pre-existing conditions. There is no way anyone could ever have predicted societal collapse, mass deaths etc having seen this data, and the IFRs that were written up in a SAGE document of 2 March show that the government knew this.
If this fear was ever plausible it was plausible for a month, MAXIMUM.
Then the facts flooded in and all demonstrated a mild flu-like epidemic in most countries, a bad flu season in the hardest hit places. Doesn’t even qualify as a pandemic in my head- if it does tecnically, it shouldn’t (the WHO have declared another another pandemic fraudulently imo).
TPTB routinely ignored these facts in favour of the narrative that justified their initial overreaction and none of them have the leadership props (except Norway and Denmark and perhaps Italy in a roundabout way) to admit their mistakes.
The facts flooded in – see my post above – very early, way before lockdown.
page 2
Reading that article in The Quadrant it strikes me that Victorians (or perhaps even the whole of Australia) ain’t gonna get their democracy back until they take it back. And if that means annihilating the careers of these cockroaches then it’s no less than they deserve. (Actually prison is what they deserve.) It’s patently obvious to anyone with a modicum of common sense that they are using Covid as a cover for a fascist coup. When the flu is killing more than Covid and these measures are in place you know something is wrong. The State is using violence against its people, how’s that going to pan out?
I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again.
We need to make a list of who said what before this happened and in the early days.
Then look at who was right and who was wrong.
Then look at who the government is listening to or following now.
Then call them out and maybe take action.
At least Hancock has listened to CH. That’s a start.
It’s quite easy the whole of Parliament and the entire MSM media bar Peter Hitchens Toby Young Alison Pearson and Sherrelle Jacobs.All Guilty
Sounds shockingly sweeping, but it’s not far from the absolute truth.
Tory backbenchers are finally sharpening their knives! Interesting recent report in the DT live section:
Conservative MPs have warned that Downing Street is getting “the guillotine ready-made” for Gavin Williamson, amid the chaos over today’s exam results.
…. Tory MPs warned that if the chaos was not resolved, Mr Williamson’s job could be at risk.
One said: “Clearly they are getting the guillotine ready-made. However I think things depend on grades and appeals, and also school return in September… and whether it becomes a big mess. The mocks change came at lastminute.com and should have been done weeks ago.”
A former minister said: “He’s clearly seen the chaos in Scotland and is trying to move to prevent that scenario. Instead he’s just made himself look panicky and incompetent.
“In short, he’s justifying his own sacking… the question is how scared Boris Johnson is of him – he’s bloody nasty when he’s in a corner.”
A third backbencher added: “It’s a farce, it’s a disgrace and Gavin Williamson should hang his head in shame and resign. He was a useless Defence Secretary and even worse Education Secretary.
“You can forgive Track and Trace, you can forgive PPE, because we were dealing with things we have never dealt with before, but we deal with exams every single year… and we have had six months to get it right.”
The bit about de Piffle being scared of him doesn’t say much for our country’s illustrious leader, does it?!
Part of me is encouraged because dissent has been so lacking that any dissent seems positive now, and if they dissent about stuff like this then maybe they will move on to the most important issues.
But my gut feel is that we should not be encouraged, because this isn’t significant dissent on the central issue which is, in short, we should have done what Sweden did and we should now be doing what Sweden is doing, and we are a million miles from that, and UK Govt is fully signed up to the coronapanic agenda.
I prefer not to make the best the enemy of the good in this regard. They’re all guilty and if we can nail one on any basis we should do so. Never forget, never forgive.
But also, when people get sacked they sometimes get bitter or vengeful, and lash out. That’s when we are more likely to find out about some of the dirty laundry covered up under collective responsibility.
Let’s hope we see some of that
I fear that you’re right, Julian. Besides which, people are now innocculated with the Fear/Panic virus.
Again – total agreement. Williamson is a safe diversion – the snotty little test in the playground. And exams aren’t the issue – only one symptom.
Sorry ‘ test’ is ‘twat!
I agree. The whole exam debacle is a very convenient diversion while they plan their next scare tactic.
Kind of him/her to demonstrate how education has failed people.
page 2 again
Every sentence of this filth is literally diabolical. Diametrically opposed to the truth. A small crumb of comfort is that anyone in the political hierarchy who thinks they are doing the right thing by defending their superiors is going to get thrown under the bus along with everyone else.
“Lockdown has also ensured a speedier economic recovery” WTF!?
The lockdown caused the economic collapse you fucking moron.
Sorry, but that’s the stupidest thing I’ve read today.
It also contains the standard face mask nonsense. Interesting read, as this is my local MP.
MP = Mendacious Pillock?
The Tales from the Madhouse blog post by Gary Sidley is excellent (see link in Toby’s peice above). I was just browsing comments underneath it and found this, posted by ‘Kelly’:
“For those doctors and nurses, all healthcare professionals, there is a protest on 29th August 2020. They are delivering a letter to Downing Street for lockdown and restrictions to be lifted – needs hundreds to turn up to stop this madness!In small numbers they can be dismissed but not in their thousands.
Each person in NHS and any health care setting needs to stand up and be counted against these draconian measures that will only get worse as they boil us slowly in the pan.”
I hope, hope, hope…………
I guess this is when they tell us the next stage, Jan 2021:
https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/about
“MAINTAIN HUMANITY UNDER 500,000,000 IN PERPETUAL BALANCE WITH NATURE”.
Current world population = 7,800,000,000.
Required reduction = 7,300,000,000.
Seems totally fair, just and dignified.
God help us.
Assume all the people on the WEF will be first on the list to be culled? Maybe they should set an example.
Those at the top are having way too much fun to sacrifice themselves, but some of the lower level staff in the WEF will be for sure.
…. the World Economic Forum will draw on thousands of young people in more than 400 cities around the world (the Global Shapers Community)…
That’s why people over 45 will be redundant. They’re the ones who will question and oppose.
Well, theoretically at least. If their reaction to the covid fiasco is anything to go by they won’t question at all, they’ll just grab their towels!
The cull has only just begun and if you haven’t read 1984, now’s the time to do so because it’s the script.
I’d be interested to know where this quote is from
Georgia Guidestones.
It’s a weird monument in Georgia, USA, which is covered in these kinds of statements. To my knowledge, the person who commissioned it’s construction is not known.
If there is one critical lesson to learn from this crisis, it is that we need to put nature at the heart of how we operate. We simply can’t waste more time,” said HRH The Prince of Wales.
Considering that Big Ag and Big Pharma are key players in this, it’s hard to see where “nature” will get a look in!
The economist has got the wrong end of the stick. I’m not frightened to leave my home and I’d happily go back to my office tomorrow if it were the same as it was back in March but I’m not going anywhere that needs a mask and I’m sure as hell not going back into a “socially distanced, mask wearing, queue to use the facilities” office when I can work happily from home.
Totally agree.
Exactly. People working from home are getting some unfair stick. Like you say a lot would happily go back to the offices if they were either a) actually allowed and/or b) the offices were normal and not depressing, antisocial over the top “Covid safe” monstrosities.
I hate it. I have no division between my work and my now non-existent social life.
I used to walk to work, which gave me a nice bit of exercise every day and a good way to clear my mind.
Working from home was alright for the first fortnight, when I realised I could get a lie in and do chores at lunch etc. but the novelty has long worn off.
I’ve loved it, but feel bad for you and for my colleagues and all those who don’t like working from home. It suits some, but not all, and it should not IMO be imposed by employers. We’re planning to offer staff the choice.
I’m all for flexible working practices. Other than getting teams and colleagues together at least some of the time, flexible options solve all kinds of issues.
I wouldn’t mind if I was out of the office half of the time, for instance, but the permenance is what I’m having difficulty with.
Yeah I miss the routine of getting up early and going into the office and seeing people. Before this I was working from home 1-2 days a week, which was good. All the weekdays blend into one now it’s 5 days working from home.
totally agree with you – it’s nice to have the option but working from homw all the time and work/home all blur into one never ending existence within the house!
Nice to have a change of scenery.
our office is open now but optional to go in. We don’t have many employees about 100, and only about 4 are choosing to go in on any one day so not a great take-up. I went in for first time this week and was lovely and quiet and aircon was great in the heatwave and caught up on some gossip with the IT crew!!
Workspaces now are psychologically damaging to sceptics. Not to mention the damage to your tongue from all the biting you’ll be doing while Karen from accounts says she won’t send her kids back to school in September.
I speak to colleagues very little other than on work matters now, for exactly this reason. It’s easier to avoid awkward conversations if you’re working remotely. I am one of the bosses so feel it inappropriate to rant at staff.
I remember early March when we were still in the office and people were beginning to panic. I was finding myself saying on a daily basis “will you shut the fuck up about Covid, I’m sick of hearing about it”
My boss asked me just yesterday how I was feeling about returning to the office – said I’m happy to return to Normal or continue to work from home – but the “New Normal” (masks, distancing & all the myriad rules) sounds depressing and anti-social to me. He agreed – so perhaps if people keep feeding this kind of thing up the chains it will eventually sink in with the powers that be.
(However, I avoided getting into any kind discussion about scepticism – seems reasonable enough to say how I feel without debating the necessity of the rules. They keep telling us they care about employees feeling after all.)
Our staff are saying similar things, and would welcome it if staff said they didn’t want us to put distancing measures in place – though the big bosses at our place would never stand for it sadly.
A lot of them who say they prefer the office don’t want to come back until things are “normal” and seem to expect this to happen soon. I keep telling them it won’t.
We got a 1-5 survey of how confident are we to return. My ‘not at all confident’ answer was obviously due to the masks and general silliness, but no doubt they assume it’s fear of the virus!
Yep – had similar surveys – there is never an option to say you’re not a bedwetter, but just don’t want to return with all the nonsense rules.
We didn’t ask our staff for reasons, or levels of confidence, just about what they would prefer to do long-term.
I’ve formally refused to consent to the new “Covid-safe” workplace policies which were distributed to all employees a couple of months ago.
Only a second wave will prevent me from being forced to resign for refusal to return to the office. No worries whatsoever then!
It’s completely illogical to tell people their office is now so hazardous that PPE etc is mandatory, but it is also perfectly safe so is reasonable to force people back there to work (especially if you were never hired to work in a hazardous environment in the first place). Constructive dismissal?
Ask for their risk assessment then rip it to shreds – lots of ammo on here.
Use the Health and Safety legislation and ask for proofs their mitigations will work and for the science behind it.
Remember Prof Dingwall said social distancing was “conjured up out of nowhere” and there is no scientific evidence anything stops a virus. Not acceptable for a risk assessment, there must be proof the mitigation will work – for example do not stand under a suspended load. The proof – if it falls then if you are standing clear you will not be hit, it’s as easy as that.
Under HS&E legislation if you do NOT agree to a risk assessment you have the right to refuse to work and then write your own risk assessment and use those mitigations to prove you are working safe.
As long a long a you can prove you have thought about the risks and documented same you are covered.
The government cannot or will not supply the science behind their decisions and I have it in writing from councils they have no risk assessments etc from either themselves or central government.
And also demand to see proof that wearing masks for long periods doesn’t cause any side effects – which, of course, they do…
Choice is key.
I’m back in the office when I don’t have to be (which isn’t as much as both our offices are now open- only one was before) but am blessed with a sceptic boss who thinks anti-social bollox is bullshit. Strange, you’d think IT workers would be all board with working from home but many of them seem to hate it because they’ve spent much of their careers having the option and turning it down- and have chosen to work for my boss who favours an office presence (evem if most of the stuff we do is remote). It’s interesting, I think only a few people with health issues and one pregnant lady are still at home out of us, and there’s about 60 of us.
One of the 20 odd measures that have been introduced in my office (I won’t name where) includes…and honestly I am not making this up and I quote..”when passing in circulation areas turn your head to face away from oncoming colleagues until they have passed”. This is clarified later in the ‘protocols’ with the following, “ establish clear routes throughout the workplace to maintain 2m social distancing. Where this is not possible I.e. walking amongst decking stations where staff are working, staff should take the following steps to:
The 25 page document continues in this vein.
we are not allowed to sit next to, opposite or behind anyone so office capacity is currently 10%.
So yes, I too will continue to work from home for as long as possible and the other alternative seems to be to sit there with a bag in my head and carry an air horn warning system
Brilliant! I think my office has topped that though with a rule that you cannot exit the building via the fire escape, when the fire alarm goes off, without wearing your face mask.
In addition, one lift is designated the “fire lift” which disabled (or mobility impared) people may use instead of the stairs in the event of fire. The new COVID-safe rule is only one disabled person at a time may use this in an emergency, so you don’t catch the corona on your way out. I guess if there is more than one person they have to draw straws to see who goes first?
That sounds much like the picture someone posted recently of 4 stickers on a lift floor, directing all occupants to face the corners, (presumably) to avoid the risk of inhaling any nasty virus. I wonder if there is supposed to be a “dedicated” button pusher?
Good point. They’ll have to bring back dedicated lift operators to press the buttons. Obviously wearing a full hazmat suit.
That reminds me of a true story – a few years ago I was sharing a multi-story car park lift with several others. As we reached an intermediate floor a synthesised voice announced which level it was. A blonde lady (sorry to any who might be reading) piped up: “Is there really someone saying that each time?” To this day, I’m not sure if she was joking or not…
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3fTg-WxuEEQPqTwnKN1evfqvj3erL52ACKKekzfY0lw&s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjC_lv7A8Us
safer than not facing the corners… Masks dont work for this either
Great clip. Thanks for the laugh.
so standard rules for evacuations is dont go back for coats , phones, computers etc. Just leave immediately. However if you forget your mask, of course you must go back inside the burning building to get it. Thats ok.. masks make you indestructable.. thats why Batman wears one.
What happens when work cracks out the Swastikas and the portrait of Der Fuhrer, and insists on everyone taking part in the morning Seig Heiling – and no more working at home where the party can’t inspect your loyalties? Going to quit?
Thanks to their own stupid rules they can’t get more than 33% of the staff into the building on any given day. We’re split into 3 weekly groups as they also need to spend the entire weekend “deep cleaning” the place (whatever that is) before a new group is allowed in.
They’ve already confirmed the next review of the stupidity will be in November and have strongly hinted it will carry on until at least next spring so I’ve got a while yet before I need to practice my Seig Heiling.
Yesterday, the official covid death toll was adjusted from 46700 to 41,300
Here’s another 3,600 to knock of the offical death toll!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/12/almost-10-per-cent-deaths-attributed-covid-19-not-related-coronavirus/
Nearly 10 per cent of coronavirus deaths reported by Public Health England (PHE) were not related to Covid-19, a report shows.
….. On Wednesday, the true extent of the problem emerged when PHE published a report showing that 3,664 people who had been included in 40,160 English coronavirus deaths did not have Covid-19 on their death certificate.
It is also now clear that England’s death rate has been diminishing far faster than official figures showed.
….. Experts said the figures explained why the daily death toll for England remained stubbornly high throughout June and July, in contrast to the other devolved nations and despite the Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures showing that deaths were rapidly falling.
The numbers have now been adjusted, and it now appears that England may have had its first Covid-19 death-free day on August 6.
Thank goodness the MSM are finally pointing out that the plandemic is about done.
However, I have noticed that, certainly in today’s Grad and DT, the focus has moved from “cases” to numbers tracked and traced – or not!
Also, the Grad used to have a scary coronavirus section which has completely disappeared. The DT still has theirs, though it isn’t full of scary graphs and local case maps but some questioning articles, like the Sarah Knapton one cited by Toby and a story about Tim Martin’s demand to see Prof. Pennington’s evidence.
Have a look in your chosen rags and see if it’s a trend.
So, not enough covid around to report on? I wonder what they’ll scare us with next …….
There are the coming seperation issues to deal with once covud is flogged to death and no more. The fear is a comfort to people. Without it many will struggle.
And very encouraging from comments section – genuinely feels like tide turning now.
Interesting that it’s now sporting a “coronavirus cases tracker” map, slap bang in the middle of the article.
Covid-19 death toll is 5% of whatever they say it is.
http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/04/tiny-percentage-of-uk-covid-19-deaths-had-no-underlying-causes-much-less-than-1000-have-died-of-covid-19/
Sorry, not got a chosen rag. Ditched the MSM – via whatever medium – back in January.
Ironically, I didn’t go anywhere near the MSM before the election.
Once the plandemic began, I’d have a look at the Grad’s headlines (no paywall, no ads), then fortunately found OffG, then here.
Reluctantly I took an introductory subscription to the DT so I could follow the many links that Toby posts. That expires at the end of this month. It’s good to see the reporting is becoming less fearmongering and more questioning.
Is thebuptick in infections not also due to increased mask wearing?
I’ve seen more than a few references to the strong correlation between mask wearing in public and infection rates increasing, i.e. masks increase unhygienic behaviour.
‘the uptick in infections is almost entirely due to increased testing and nothing to worry about’. Toby Young – above. The media call them ‘infections’ but it is unlikely that (m)any of them are actually ill, let alone at risk of death.
Now as for masks, I believe they are more likely to cause bacterial infections so we’ll see how much of an issue this is in the future and whether anyone getting sick from wearing a mask will be counted as a ‘coronavirus infection’ Place your bets.
Masks = ‘Germ Blankets’, taken from ‘anon’ so feel free to use.
Masks definitely seem to increase unhygienic behaviour from what I have seen, though I think it’s unlikely at this stage that that will translate into increased coronavirus positives as the virus is so rare now, especially in the UK.
Watch the bacterial lung and mouth infections and pleurisy sky rocket though.
They said ‘increases risky behaviour’, naturally I thought of Dogging but they only meant decreased Social Distancing.
So, If a healthy person were stupid enough to have a covid test that turned out to be positive and they are asymptomatic (as 80% of people seem to be)
and then that person were to be unlucky enough to die by; attempting to put on their trousers, hit by lightning (lots of it about at the moment), drowns, commits suicide, or one of the other infinite ways that we can perish – then that will be a covid death?
A healthy person with no symptoms who voluntarily takes a Covid test deserves to perish within 28 days
natural selection….
Nobody is, my local testing station is only getting 20 punters a day, mostly sent in groups by their employers.
Everybody else is too canny (see your comment) or can’t be arsed.
Ah mate, a good hearty chuckle I just had! Off to work I go now…cheers!
Yes, this was a known thing at the beginning.
Hiding the truth in the lies, all part of the coronavirus swindle: Eddie Large and 568 others:
http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/04/hiding-the-truth-in-the-lies-all-part-of-the-coronavirus-swindle-eddie-large-and-568-others/
Just had a thoruoghly dispiriting visit to an almost empty Cafe Nero in the centre of Perth. Coffee was served by the stony faced assistant in paper cups and my croissant in a paper bag; no china, no cutlery. Proferred cash but told I had to pay by card. When I paid I was then told by the stony faced but unmasked assistant that I should be wearing a mask and wouldn’t be allowed in in future. The fact that we were there to eat and drink in the premises was irrelevant. Meanwhile my wife who was sitting waiting at a table pointed out to the member of staff that the table needed cleaned (crumbs, and detritus of previous occupant). Stony faced assistant stated that there are cleaning products available and my wife should clean it herself!
We have used Cafe Costa a few times recently without being masked and have enjoyed reasonable coffee served in china cups with proper china plates and real cutlery served by pleasant staff. Long after this covid paranoia is over we will still remember this awful experience and clearly will not patronise Cafe Nero. Do these companies really wish to go out of business?
I’m beginning to think many companies really have a death wish and so we should grant that wish by voting with our feet and wallet and boycott these establishments.
They sound thoroughly miserable and unwelcoming. Maybe remind them about Disability Discrimination/Equalities Act, or pop in (unmasked) and drop off a copy of the Law or Fiction handy guide to how much there fine could be?
*their* fine. Sceptics are sticklers for correctness.
No we’re not.
Pilkunnussija.
And yet, you spell the name of the legendary Zargozonian folk-poet exactly right!
Aargh, why bother, just lend them a razor as a quicker way to cut their own throats.
Who cleans up after them?
Obviously, a poor customer service experience. Interesting that Nero recently sent me a “free coffee if you buy anything” voucher. However, I’ve found that my mental health suffers too much if I go near any place with social distancing, so I haven’t used it. Sounds as if I made the right choice regardless.
“Meanwhile my wife who was sitting waiting at a table pointed out to the member of staff that the table needed cleaned (crumbs, and detritus of previous occupant). Stony faced assistant stated that there are cleaning products available and my wife should clean it herself!”
I find that incredible. In all the eating places I have been in recently (mainly pubs, I am not a coffee shop person) the staff have been meticulously following cleaning routines. Always thoroughly cleaning table tops after customers leave. I was surprised in one pub where they also disinfected the seating and even wiped down their plastic menu cards before putting back on tables. To expect customers to clean the table tops before using them is disgusting.
It used to be Bring your own bottle (wine). Now it’s bring your own disinfectant and J Cloth.
I prefer independent coffee shops
Yes, kh’s sounds good, just a bit too far away from me unfortunately.
This kind of experience would get them forever banned from my patronage. Never to go back again.
Forgive me for interfering, but I thought I’d call the Cafe Nero in question. I read out your post and the comments underneath, with a reference to the website, to the manager, Lisa. She said she knew the gentleman in question. I suggested that she seemed to want to go out of business and that I was trying to help her by giving information about what was being said about her branch on the internet. I asked how a person was supposed to eat a croissant and drink coffee whilst wearing a mask. She told me it was “the law” that people had to wear a mask whilst at the counter placing their order. Being in England, I don’t know whether that’s true of not. A quick google tells me it’s not, but the law may have changed. I asked her whether there are exemptions to this requirement. She said “if someone has asthma”. I echoed “asthma?”. She elaborated “or other disabilities”. I asked “what are these other disabilities?”. She said she was going to end the call because she wasn’t prepared to have an argument. I said I’m not arguing, I’m asking her questions and repeated “what are the other disabilities?”. She hung up.
Thanks Aremen, happy for you to be involved. “She hung up” rather says it all about their customer care attitude. I am not aware of any such law and certainly it has not been how other coffee shops and tea rooms that we have been in have operated.
Phew! Glad you’re OK with my interfering. I thought I might have overstepped the mark. She did ask me to repeat the name of this website, which I did do carefully. Who knows, we might have a convert in the catering industry in Perth by the end of today. In which case, hello and welcome, Lisa!
one of those places that thinks that customers interfere with the smooth running of the operation. Bit like hospitals and surgeries,,, and train companies,, and …… i could go on .
… libraries.Librarians hate those ugly gaps where readers have dared to take a book out.
No danger of that here, we aren’t allowed in the library at all.
It’s not going to be over. The companies think you will keep coming. Will you?
Dining pub near us, Sutton Hall just outside Macclesfield, part of the TRG, does the contact detail tracing and so on with gusto. That’s the trouble with a big chain.
Details taken by computer at the main door, all staff in visors, customers not allowed anywhere near the bar, one-way system.
Totally devoid of atmosphere inside.
To add insult to injury they’ve increased the price of Timothy Taylor Boltmaker from £4/pint pre-lockdown to £4.50!
That hurts this Yorkshireman.
I feel sorry for the young staff.
I wouldn’t visit any Establishment that treated me like a biohazard.
You can understand why it was empty! A good way to go bust!
Quick retail report, maybe old hat now, but worth it to encourage anybody still shy about going naked.
Weekly shop today, Home Bargains, Asda and Aldi. One other maskless shopper in HB and one in Asda. No looks, no comments whatsoever. In Aldi, till girl came to take her seat and greatfully took her mask off.
Any feeling of “I’m the only one without a mask” quickly turns into “What are all you fools doing that for?” You chat to the checkout staff and it’s like nothing is different. I honestly don’t feel a thing.
Just do it.
Yep same here. I just go in and shop as normal. I’ve even stopped thinking to myself wtf are the people doing with masks on. They can keep on wearing them forever for all I care now.
PS, parked my trolley next to a freshly discarded mask.
How fresh was it ?
Well, I could breathe through it just fine…. Kidding! Looked very clean, maybe used once, but just chucked on the floor in the trolley park. They are so socially conscious, these zealots, aren’t they?
I don’t know if you saw a post of mine a while ago – I calculated that, at 3.5 grams a mask, if 1 person in 4 disposed of one disposable mask a day, that would creat 64 TONS of waste masks a day. And that didn’t include anything else such as empty hand sanitizer bottles, disposed hand wipes etc. People are absolutely so blind to the consequences of their actions.
I read a great article the other day about the human microbiome (happy to dig it out if anyone wants to read it) – it said that there is probably 200 times the amount of human microbiome genetic material than the human genetic material itself and that the microbiome has been estimated to weigh about 5 pounds! 5 pounds of bacteria viruses and other assorted microbes on and in each of us!
DavidC
I recommend this book:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spontaneous-Evolution-Positive-Future-There/dp/1848503059/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3U5FPR3O84BSF&dchild=1&keywords=bruce+lipton+books&qid=1597325063&s=books&sprefix=bruce+lipton%2Caps%2C197&sr=1-3
Fascinating explanaiton of how the human body is a collection of symbiotic and co-operating cells, including bateria etc. Fascinating stuff, lightened by Bhaerman’s humour.
Microboniams now! Why has Andy Burnham let me become infected with that? We need to close the pubs…
Lol!
If you are a bacterium or a virus, a human body is just a comfortable home. Probably the best use for zombies anyway.
Yep, about a clenched fistfull as I helpfully explained to a woman who had seen suchlike figures in a documentary.
Dunno if I was strictly accurate but it made for a splendid hand gesture.
“About this much”.
A clenched fist is often the best explanation for them
Just when we thought we were getting a grip on plastic waste this horror comes along.
Seaman Stains,
Sorry.
<frantically tries to tipex “I could breathe through it” off screen…>
From a slightly different perspective I was at an M4 services in Wales this morning. Masks of course not mandatory in Wales still. I went inside, maskless but lots of what I presumed to be English tourists on their way to West Wales for the weekend, all going inside putting masks on. I got a number of ‘looks’ from the masked people (most people I talk to have no idea the rules are different here in Wales). I went back to my car and then, just because, I thought I’d go back inside again, to flaunt my naked face to the English invaders. More disgusted looks. One woman stared at me as if I was bludgeoning her Granny to death right there outside Costa Coffee.
What joy!!!!
Good stuff! The more flaunting of naked faces in front of the cowardly, the better.
Clearly when it comes to our people visiting Wales, we ain’t sending our best (to coin a phrase).
Actually, the tourists from England I’ve encountered here in North Wales have been lovely. Once they realise they don’t have to wear a mask in a shop, it becomes part of their holiday experience! One tactic you can try, as I have done – let the incomers know they don’t need to follow the indoor mask rules in Wales. Unless they are zealots, who I believe are a minority, they will be happy to take them off. Communication is key…
Is your first name Afon, Mr. Dee?
Absolutely, Sam, couldn’t agree more.
Didn’t have time to post this earlier, but this morning I went bare faced and alone into two shops.
In Dunelm, I breezed past the mask and hygiene monitor with a big smile. She returned the smile and said nothing. I doubt if she even saw my badge.
In a large, out of town B and M, the big notice about masks also said there were exemptions for “people with breathing difficulties and non visible disabilities” so bonus point there for B and M.
No-one gave me a second glance in either store. Why? I like to think that more and more sheeple are cottoning on about the exemptions and are no more likely to look at me without a mask than if I was in a wheelchair.
Both stores are like big sheds with tin roofs. It was unbearably hot in both.
2 young women in masks in the convenience store today, each had an unmasked child so I could see the puzzled looks on their faces as they stared after me.
Puzzled is a good start!
Never old hat Mr V. I love these uplifting stories from my fellow brethren
It’s great that Carl Heneghan and Jason Oke’s work has resulted in a change of the duration of the Covid-19 positive test. However, it still doesn’t rectify the ‘Death by Covid-19/Death from Covid-19’ problem or the fact that if someobody dies within the 28 day period (again, using the ‘run over by a bus’ example) from something else, it will still show Covid-19 as the cause of death.
A bit anecdotal but a friend of mine whose Father was admitted to hosiptal in the later stages of cancer earlier in this fiasco tested negative on admission, ‘caught’ it and tested positive and later died. At the top of the death certificate? Covid-19.
DavidC
If some way could be found to strip out those deaths as well, maybe we could lose half of the remaining “COVID” deaths.
I think about the poor souls who were sent back from hospitals to care and nursing homes and then locked down. I think that was governnemt mandates murder, no less.
DavidC
Absolutely. What else could you call sending an ‘infection bomb’ into a closed environment full of vulnerable folk?
Euthanasia.Get rid of the useless eaters and bump up the death rates at the same time.These people are satanic.
What would you say to the NHS manager who decided to send Covid patients, whose kidneys had been wrecked on ventilators, into the Dialysis
unit of another hospital whose patients are sealed in normal times and were considered especially vulnerable to the Covid ?
What might you say if you knew that hospital #1 had it’s own underutilised Dialysis Unit ?
I’d ask if they had opted out of the organ donation scheme or were they still “in” under the new way of doing things?
Kill people off, take their organs as it is now opt out – good scam.
Just a bit more personal than kill them off, take their house under the equity release small print.
Presumably, if Carl Heneghan and Jason Oke hadn’t flagged this up, PHE would still be at it?
I’ve often referred to this as the ‘numbers game’. When someone in authority initiates a policy, the numbers generated have to be in line with the policy, otherwise the initiator looks stupid. As BJ went for the nuclear option, the numbers would have to be huge to justify what he did, but unfortunately they aren’t. And with PHE not able to cook the books they look even worse.
Spot on Biggles. It’s going to be (almost?) impossible to get the true picture of what has really happened because the underlying data is now so compromised and dirty one way and another.
DavidC
Do you not think that might have been the deliberate ploy all along? Give PHE enough rope to hang themselves confident in the knowledge they would relish the opportunity.
This is what Italy did and their total ended up at 12% of what it was.
So in reality I reckon our ‘true’ covid total is only in the realm of 4k.
Which makes the lockdown all the more batshit crazy.
Which, sadly, applies to virtually the entire government…
Road Report.
I had thought that the astonishing levels of traffic (small city, large hinterland) earlier this week might in part be the result of 50% free grub but it is just as busy today with a normal morning rush hour, still busy in and out of the town at lunchtime.
Even cars going into County Hall which is a novelty.
Massive commercial ‘Farm Shop’, carpark rammed, exterior queues for different departments no masks, extensive children’s play area heavily used, no masks.
Rural Car Boot Sale back in its Thursday slot a sea of unmasked faces (locals mixing with visitors oh nooos).
Large seaside town, not nearly as busy as it should be on a sunny August late morning.
Again no masks except one elderly couple sat outside their beach hut with masks and plastic gloves.
By the river a modern development with restaurants, cafes and bars on the ground floor facing a piazza, think St. Mark’s without the Venice. It’s as though the Covid never was. Extra furniture on the public .
square, quite busy and very relaxed.
The nearby area of redundant port buildings turned over to equatic and marine sports has been dead of late but today a group of children were getting kitted out with life jackets to go for an adventure on the river.
Bless.
Joyful discovery of a wonderful fishmongers today in Borrowash near Derby. Operating out of the door but the shop is tiny and no concerns about masks needing to be worn in the doorway and I suspect the fishmonger is Lockdown sceptical!!! If you are in the area pay “Finest of Fish” a visit!!!!
I used to live in Borrowash, was quite a nice place to be.
My in-laws live there. I’ll give them a heads-up about the fishmonger.
Same with Zuvufish in Tickhill.
First time I’ve seen a Fish recommending a fishmonger.
Just like Albert’s Fish Bar in Holt, Norfolk. I’m not going to apologise for giving them a plug – as other establishments are being mentioned here. They do superb chips (I can’t vouch for the fish, but other comments are favourable), and they actually PREFER cash for orders under £10!
No need to apologise – sharing the details of those who deserve our support is part of the purpose of this site.
In which case, I’ll add the Wheatsheaf Pub in Wetheral, near Carlisle. Just been there for a meal and not a mask in sight. Absolute bliss.
Found these recent videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn0V5uItsVc&feature=emb_logo – in German but with subtitles, over 600 doctor’s question covid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1qTi6GKIhU&feature=emb_logo – again in German with subtitles, Parliamentary Inquiry into covid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI9K-pq0zhk&feature=emb_logo – about Rockefeller lockstep
Excellent article by Ross Clark behind the Telegraph paywall. Worth a read in full but this quote was really heartening:
“ There is a moral here. If you are a country whose economy relies on UK tourists, don’t test more people than you need to; let those very mild and asymptomatic cases go unrecorded. If you are resident in Britain and value your freedom to meet relatives, go down the pub and so on, think twice about getting yourself tested – your reward may well be to have your whole town locked down.”
“let those very mild and asymptomatic cases go unrecorded” suspect and hope Italy is doing exactly this. Conte said they can’t afford another lockdown.
There is another way of looking at this though. The more asymptomatic and mild cases are recorded, the more people (should) realise that, like so many other unremarkable respiratory viruses, it’s (probably) pervasive at the moment, or was. And nothing to worry about if you’re normally healthy.
Having said that, I ignored the invitation to do swabs generated from Imperial, for a mass survey, or might have been Kings, couldn’t be bothered.
Also true, though if Italy did that it might reassure their own population (or it might not) but it would mean they’d get put on the naughty step which would screw up their tourist industry.
I think the key word here is “should”! Currently, the media (or most of it) is still presenting all new “cases” as something dangerous and scary, regardless of whether they’re mild, asymptomatic, the result of virus RNA from an infection weeks/months ago, or even just a false positive.
Nobody who had a lockdown can afford another one. It was a one shot, last-gasp try to contain a virus now endemic. Game over.
You’re very kind, Nick. More like a planned first step towards a global fascist state.
It was certainly planned, of that I have no doubt.
A couple of months ago Italy admitted it had over cooked the Covid figures. Its taken this country a few months more to admit the same thing.
100% in agreement. Don’t be tested, it just encourages the Covid nutters!
Why is this “young person” attending the big WE Forum “Great Reset” summit? Look what her company does…
https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/about
Victoria Alonsoperez, Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Chipsafer, Uruguay, and a Young Global Leader
https://www.chipsafer.com/about
Yep, all the different threads starting to come together – as long a you are awake enough to see it.
“Chipsafer is a platform that can track and detect anomalies in livestock behaviour at any time and place with the aim of isolating the outbreak of such anomalies as soon as possible.”
This comments section is most definitely an anomaly in livestock behaviour!
<cheesy ‘nice’ muzak>
You wear a seat belt because you care, and want to be safe.
You wear a mask because you care, and want to be safe.
You have your pets microchipped, because you care, and want them to be safe.
Now, you can make the next step in caring and being safe, because that’s what you want..
A Chipsafe microchip in your earlobe is almost undetectable, and can be fitted at the same time as your Coronavirus test….
Yep, I was thinking change cattle to humans and it’s ready to go.
Maybe this is part of the £400 million investment in a bankrupt satellite company is for?
Too jaded and cynical?
You really can’t be. Not any more.
Nice to know it’s not just me.
I know I’m not paranoid.
Paranoiacs just think the world is put to get them.
I know the world is out to eat me so not paranoid.
About 5 years ago some muppets, in Sweden I think, agreed to be chipped just to make it easier to get into a nightclub and get served at the bar. FFS.
Also Bernard Looney, Chief Executive Officer, bp, United Kingdom
Seems a very apt name
A fascinating concatenation of capital.
Had an idea for a Theme Tune but I’m not nominating it officially since its cruel.
For all those whose companies are going broke thanks to lockdown.
Harry J. & The All Stars
‘ The Liquidator ‘
Great tune!
Here is the latest in my battle with the Coop regarding their failure to highlight exemptions to mask-wearing in High Peak stores. Please note that Charlotte seems to have such contempt for Coop customers that she can’t even be bothered to proof-read her email (all those question marks). Also, I must be getting old but I object to ‘Hi Miriam’!
My response is below hers.
Hi Miriam,
Thank you for your email and my apologies for the delay in response to you.
The health and safety of Co-op colleagues, customers and members is our priority.
In line with new laws set out by the Government, it is mandatory to wear a face covering to cover the nose and mouth when shopping in Co-op stores in Scotland from 10th July and in England from 24th July.
This is clearly communicated through store signage, but it is the responsibility of all non exempt customers to ensure that they are in adherence with the new legal requirements. I have passed on feed back for you about the message not being clear enough in store so we can get this looked into for you.
If there’s anything else we can help you with, please do not hesitate to respond to this email.
???????Kind regards and best wishes,
Charlotte
Member & Customer Services
=============
Dear Charlotte,
Thank you for your response to my email of 5 August.
Unfortunately, I consider it to be inadequate. I hardly need reminding of the mandatory mask requirement in shops as this is what all my correspondence with the Coop has been about! I have now wasted considerable amounts of my time emailing Customer ‘Care’ about the Coop’s lamentable approach to mask exemptions and being fobbed off; now it seems the buck has been passed yet again.
Since the focus of all my correspondence has actually been about the Coop’s failure to make it clear that exemptions from wearing masks apply to many people and that exempt people should not be challenged by either staff or other customers, forgive me if I’m not assured on the 12 August by a vague promise to pass ‘feedback on for me’. For me? Really?
The mask mandate has been in force since 24 July and the Coop has done little or nothing to reassure people who need to shop in your stores that they will not be bullied or harassed for not wearing a mask. I already know that this has taken place in two stores and it’s not hard to imagine that it’s universal. All it takes is a simple exemption notice in the doorway along with the mandatory mask one which you had no trouble putting up in short order.
Mask-wearing for people with health issues has been shown to be dangerous, for some people, very much so. I have witnessed people in obvious distress trying to comply with this mandate. Despite your claim, the health, safety and well-being of your customers seems to be of little or no concern to the Coop. In other words, this claim is meaningless.
Please could you stop fobbing me off and obtain an immediate promise from whoever is in charge, that exemption notices will be put up in High Peak Coop stores with immediate effect.
Yours,
Do. Not. Mess. With. Miriam.
Watch it, you!
Do they not play the pre-recorded message that I heard in a Co-op that urged customers not to hassle non-mask wearers? It was very good and put me right at ease.
We’ve got that in our Coop too – made me more relaxed about going in.
To Ruth and Ed. Apparently there is a recorded message but it’s inaudible in all 3 of our local stores as I’ve pointed out to them in my previous correspondence. ( I guess the PA systems are crap.)
All I’m asking for is a simple notice on the door!
There are pre-recorded messages (using a soft, female voice) for public transport in Montreal which requests that you put on your mask once you get on the bus or metro car. Social distancing is impossible on the buses, though, its cheek by jowl and standing room only most of the time. Like rush hour in Tokyo. That’s when I decided to re-acquaint myself with my bicycle for the rest of the summer.
Your persistence is awesome!
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa to social distancing! I want one of those signs now!
They’ve just found three positive cases nearish to me. 3 nightshift workers all nicely isolated and contacts tracked now.
I guess that means they might not lift the local mockdown.
Found out from my MP’s fb page. The comments are very disheartening. A couple of sceptics, one trying his best with facts and links, being shot down in flames by someone who’s had it and is still “greatly suffering”, plus loads who are convinced it’s worse than flu. Lost cause I’m afraid.
Are they really ‘cases’ i,e, ill or just people who’ve tested positive, whatever that’s worth? Bad luck, anyway. It’s about time people made the connection between getting tested and getting locked-down. Vain hope, I’m afraid.
Bloody testing!
No cases tested positive in the whole of Kirklees today though.
Ridiculous numbers game!
No test? No choice:
https://twitter.com/_reddpill/status/1293400780167208960?s=20
Meanwhile, back at our very own Public Health Act…
I was already suspicious when they started talking about Public Health rather than National Health some years ago, reeks of socialism.
Can’t be arsed looking now, but pretty sure it’s full of ‘removing/detaining infectious persons’ shit. Even the masks in shops law has a clause about Police using ‘reasonable force’. It’s all there, just waiting.
WTF? They have, what, 3 cases?
The woman’s clearly a psychopath!
Neil Oliver yesterday. There are other things to be afraid of apart from Covid-19
From about 8:30 but all worth listening to obviously. He’s definitely a skeptic.
He is – he ‘had’ to resign from National Trust Scotland (or some such organisation) for not towing the party line and not being politically correct, including not kow-towing to the SNP. He is great!
My poor mother who is in her mid seventies has consumed nothing but the BBC for years and has been terrified to the point she was isolating. She’s had no underlying health conditions at all and has been fine for years…..
But, she has started to come around bit by bit, but its taken months. Anyway, I digress.
She was saying things like new normal, and how its going to have to be like this forever. To which I replied that’s the end of the human race.
It’s impossible for people to meet and procreate and therefore there will be no more people. I mean sex from a 2m distance is absolutely impossible unless you are a whale…..
So, I have a hypothesis… people will bring us out of this. Single people will want to go out and have sex with other people. Ok, maybe not just single people. But especially younger ones who would normally be going out wanting to pull. Celebacy won’t last forever.
I was thinking of suggesting Toby launches a Lockdown Sceptics Hookup site, but I’ve had a look at the dating one and maybe he has already
Does she remember Hong Kong flu? Did life change forever after that?
If she’s anything like my parents (70-odd) they don’t even remember it happening, despite being 18 and off to university the year it struck.
Is that the one that occurred in 1957?
Nope don’t remember it and I was ten. The secondary school I went on to attend in 1958 had a third of it’s pupils off with flu in the influenza epidemic of 1957. It did not close. All the staff had just gone through a war what was an influenza epidemic to them?
Think it was Asian flu in 57, Hong Kong in 68/69.
Thank you for the clarification.
Both my parents were ill with the HK flu. I remember they spent a couple of days in bed and my brother and I coped but don’t remember anything more about it. There certainly wasn’t a huge drama. They got ill, they got better, life went on.
Those were the days…
1957-1958 Asian flu pandemic
1968-1970 Hong Kong flu pandemic
68-70, first years of high school, I remember it being on the telly but far too busy having fun to take any notice.
I was in my second year at grammar school in 1968 and don’t recall a thing and yet I remember things like the Aberfan tragedy, two years prior to that.
i have to confess that I did have brown knickers in 1968, but they were part of the school uniform!
I was 5 yo in the winter of 68/69. I do remember my mom being laid up at home for a week or so after New Year and being told I couldn’t go into her bedroom for a hug because she had brought HK flu home from work! But I also remember going away to Belgium – my first time abroad – with my parents a few weeks later so it couldn’t have been life-threatening nor were the borders shut.
I came across an old newspaper in her shed about 15 years later from Jan 1969 which had an inside page devoted to the epidemic. It was very matter of fact but in no way comparable to today’s fear porn.
Just different times I guess. That generation still had childhood memories of WW2 deprivations so a flu epidemic was probably not such a big deal.
It was life threatening – 80,000 people died in a population of 55 million – it’s just back then they had a sense of proportion AND it was an age of freedom where a domestic coup would have been unthinkable.
Funnily enough she doesn’t. Didn’t have enough impact I guess…
Woodstock took place during the Hong Kong flu. That generation made of stronger stuff.
I caught both the 57 and 68 bugs. And wouldn’t want them again. Generally far worse than Covid. But life went on.
I’ve only done the detailed calculation from 1993/4, but even in that period, there have been seven or eight years with worse mortality – without accounting for the fact that this past year was in great part merely the trigger for death amongst a larger than usual vulnerable population, a lot of whom would have died within the year anyway.
Going back over my whole lifetime, I guess that there will have been at least two dozen worse seasons of mortality.
So – as said – what the f. Is this pantomime about if it’s definitely not about health and disease? – which it clearly isn’t.
Rick, If you haven’t done so, take into account population changes as well. The UK population has increased about 14% since 2000 (if we believe the official figures).
DavidC
Same with me. I’m pretty sure I had HK flu (very bad and hallucinations) but Mum neither remembers the flu nor me having it! It was just another infection and I had time off school until I was well enough to go back.
I’ve had flu three times – like Rick below, it’s not NICE!
DavidC
If peoples faces are obscured, surely that must also reduce the likelihood of getting together in the first place? Although I suppose there will now be cases of “Love at first sight” which will quickly dissolve when the masks come off…
I dunno, I’m getting more interest from tinder now that my selfie has a mask.
I’ll have to try that then!
There were those
Who said Maisie had an ugly nose.
I couldn’t see the nose.
My passion rose.
But the death
Of our romance was her bad breath
Which got through the mask –
A very easy task.
I’ll stick with my tried ‘n’ tested paper bag thanks.
Single people didn’t stop having sex, the rate of STIs didn’t DUP during lockdown. That 30% admitted anonymously to breaking lockdown indicates that the majority probably did and the virus has died out because we have reached herd immunity exactly as Professor Levitt said we would if we didn’t lock down too early.
Not just single people, or even young people necessarily. Bear with me, overheard in a shop recently, a middle-aged couple in the queue before me:
Shop Assistant (SA): Haven’t you got a card sir?
Male customer: I haven’t got a bank account, only cash.
SA: How do you get your money? It’s all paid into bank accounts these days.
Male customer: It’s paid into my wife’s bank account.
SA: Oh I see. [Turns to Female customer] You have a card then, Madam?
Female customer: I’m not his wife.
The Public Health England adjusted reckoning of Covid-19 is a straw man. Covid-19 is a pneumonia with a specific cause. The official death toll is way off because it’s an aspect of a psychological operation, not a reflection of anything real.
Track and Trace, and the difference between Covid-19 and “from/with coronavirus”:
http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/05/track-and-trace-and-the-difference-between-covid-19-and-from-with-coronavirus/
.
Just got this response to my lambasting the government’s ridiculous masks in galleries law over at The Times:
Why ridiculous? Are you also a immunologist as well as a sociopath?
We’re so far from defeating this attitude. Still, don’t give up!
I bet your armchair abuser was always a nasty little Hitler. I am delighted that you further provoked their ire. Keep it up!
They are never going to love you so what have you to lose…?
Naw. Give up. (Especially online). The people who are like this are irredeemable and not worth wasting your time on (again- especially online).
Spend your pennies on the Comfortably Unbothereds- or those people who know it’s all bullshit but are just going along for an easy life. They make up the vast majority of mask-wearers /antisocial distancers and are very easily brought round with a little push.
People need to start making such connections:
“Once, collect scrap metal; now, wear a mask”:http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/08/once-collect-scrap-metal-now-wear-a-mask-when-is-uk-government-going-to-pay-for-its-crime/
Health Service Journal today
Exclusive: Lockdown patch sees surge in ‘excess deaths’
By Tom Norton13 August 2020
The rate of “excess deaths” in Leicester and Leicestershire was significantly higher than anywhere else in England in the most recent five-week period, according to official statistics.
Sadly, the detail is stashed behind a rather high paywall but I get the gist allright.
Yes. Interesting compared to Leicester Mercury news today:
“NHS bosses say no patients with coronavirus have died at the Leicester Royal Infirmary, General or Glenfield hospitals for more than a fortnight.
The University Hospitals of Leicester NHS Trust (UHL), has said the last person with the virus to pass away while being cared for at a city hospital was on July 27.”
Also
“The trust also says that despite infection rates in the city remaining several times higher than the national average, few Covid-19 patients are being admitted to the city hospitals.”
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/no-coronavirus-related-deaths-reported-4421239
Still not allowing visits to relatives in hospital.
One word : Nonsense.
I’m in Leicester. I read you were in hospital. Are you allowed visitors where you are?
https://www.naturalhealth365.com/covid-19-treatment-3514.html
Good to hear, though maybe poll a bit biased based on who sponsored it?
Yes – good point.
Anyone come across a good Downfall/Covid spoof ?
Hitler/Boris “You told me the proles
were too stupid to see there was no fucking Virus !”
Cummings/Heidrich “they’re all thick as shit, they will beg to take the vaccine if you promise them lots of drugs or sex.”
Brilliant summary Toby.
Hope people caught Professor David Spiegelhalter on Radio 4, the Today programme at 7.37am
I suggested in the comments earlier that people in the LS world contact BBC journalists, to make sure they had listened to what the Professor said. Maybe an onslaught of emails to MP’s. I wondered if things like Spiegelhalter’s words on the flagship Today programmme might carry more weight than endless scientists pitting statistics against each other. I’ll be emailing Sir Graham Brady, who seems sceptical.
This is what he said: “PHE reported 72 deaths on August 11. If you look at NHS England the figure reported is 1 death. That might go up to 5. The claim of 72 is just nonsense. People have been watching this daily figure and haven’t realised just how ridiculous it is. Our death rate is going to plummet by 80-90% tomorrow”. (he then goes on to explain how, by the same measure, Scotland’s figures should go up)….Nick Robinson asks if this is why we are more cautious as a nation, less likely to go to work than any other European nation, the danger is we are over-reacting (!!)… He replies by saying we’ve done really badly, high death toll but “the current communication of risks and deaths is vital. Communication has been so poor….the PHE dashboard has been terrible. The BBC have been just as bad. On the news last week they said on average 58 people die every day from the virus. That’s terrible. It was about 15-20. The media has been responsible for not reporting the figures responsibly, increasing people’s anxiety unnecessarily.”
Robinson concludes by saying “must do better”!!
This is great to see. Scotland’s reporting systems appear as opaque as everwhere else for political gain.
Just drawing attention to the farce against the agenda messaging is a triumph. A beginning of more to come I hope.
Whilst the government’s revising down of the death figures are a small step in the right direction, they shouldn’t lend legitimacy to these propaganda figures.
What does “deaths involving Covid-19” have to do with anything? How do we know they didn’t die with several other coronaviruses in their bodies?
We need autopsies to determine the cause of death. Otherwise there will always be Covid deaths because people will die after a false positive on the PCR test. We need to utterly reject these figures and pour scorn on anyone that cites them to influence people and policy.
No you don’t need autopsies. Just read the ONS figures instead, where the figures for deaths with only CV19 on the certs are recorded. I can’t be bothered to look them up again, but about 3 weeks ago there were 556 in the 79-80 age range, 448 in the over 80, 3 in the under 20, and a couple of hundred sprinkled along the range 20-70. This is what people wittering on about the ‘real’ deaths mean.
PHE is a creature of the Lansley reforms to the NHS which has not covered itself in glory in this debacle.
But the ONS figures are meaningless. They cite any death where the patient tested positive on the PCR or even just had respiratory symptoms as a Covid death. Due to the false positives and the relaxed standards of certification that were put in place only for the “emergency period”, we’re never going to eliminate this virus and the saga will continue throughout the winter months.
We need to take Russia’s lead and do autopsies to show that the virus has been eliminated. So we can get on with our lives rather than let the government and media panic mongers run amok.
They don’t want us to get on with our lives. That’s the point of the whole scam.
.
As I have pointed out before on this site, if, to take a typical example, you had at the height of the epidemic an 87 year old in hospital or care home with a broken neck bone which hasn’t healed for 6 months (& won’t, ever), so has been in a neck brace that long, a persistent urinary infection, is now dehydrated and possibly also has dementia (25.6% of the 40+K deaths did) , and then they finally die, with a new dry cough, chest pains like glass shards and fever, frankly you are not going to cart off the body to a special bio secure autopsy room (they don’t even have any to the international standard in Italy) to see what happened in their lungs. As a compassionate doctor, who knows ‘there’s a lot of it about’ (which there was, and is, except it isn’t doing most folks any harm) you are going to issue a death cert, including on it CV19, as you must since it is a notifiable disease, along with the other contributory conditions, and let their grieving relatives get on with conducting a sadly distanced funeral. I would not, frankly, take Russia’s lead on anything whatever.
The reason I would suggest that this situation is different is because of the drastic measures the government have taken.
Even you as a doctor are citing the “40+k deaths”. Well, what does “40+k” mean? Because the government and media are telling us that 40+k people have died of this disease and not making the distinction to dying with the Sars Cov-2 virus in their bodies. As I’m sure you know there are many viruses in any given person’s body.
Whilst I’m sure you are correct that the proper and decent thing is to send the body on the way to the family, there is a far more pressing need to establish the true virulence and lethality of this new threat BEFORE taking drastic action. Furthermore, now that the virus is on the wane and there are much fewer deaths, surely it makes sense to actually establish the cause of death rather than start locking down parts of the country because of a few more cases and so-called deaths.
Finally, to suggest that a policy decision is unwise because of the country that initiated it shows obvious unprofessional bias. The policy is good or bad on its merits.
No they do both. Sylvie gave the numbers.
The virus will never be eliminated anyway. The only reason to do autopsies is for research purposes to understand the disease better. Some have been done for this purpose.
There are various ways to estimate the impact of the virus. Deaths with Covid and deaths where in the opinion of a doctor or two Covid was an insufficient but necessary part of unnecessary but sufficient conditions of death are both recorded, as are excess deaths. Excess deaths is not perfect but is probably the best one to use, although all have some information content.
Autopsies and inquests were effectively banned by the legislation.
and you wonder why
For those in Greater Manchester, a look at Burnham’s twitter thing will show you he’s going all out to maintain the fear, push test and trace (including home visits), preferably shut the pubs if he can, and now wants people to be paid for two weeks while they isolate.
To do all this, he needs your personal details – your future is in your hands. Well, a bit of it is.
Burnham was a fully paid up member of Blair’s post 9/11 dystopian vision – 56 day lockup of suspected terrorists, permanent retention of DNA of anyone arrested – innocent or not, mandatory ID cards. So he has form. Whilst loathing lockdowns of any sort, I am deeply apprehensive about devolving these powers to local mayors and council leaders. They tend to be elected on low turnouts so largely lack any real democratic mandate and like Burnham and Khan cleave to an authoritarian, nannying style of governance which is anathema to most of us.
Give our local lot power, and they will just want to use it, whether necessary or not. Tinpot Hitlers.
We’re out in Sutton Coldfield on rhecedge of the green belt – reluctantly part of the Birmingham CC area. Labour run. – although we have a local West Midlands Mayor – Andy Street – who’s a bit of a Boris fanboy. Also surrounded by Labour met areas Sandwell and Wolverhampton. There have barely been any cases in our leafy suburb but I suspect if there’s some manufactured “spike” in one of the more densely populated inner city suburbs we’re going to find ourselves swept up in a local lockdown much like what has happened in Greater Manchester.
He is also the ultimate career politician, his own political interests come first, not those he represents. A most slimy individual, devolving extra power to such a type won’t end well.
Revised figures, eh? What’s that all about? More jerking us around? Sadists.
Update from Dublin. Went to Argos to collect a new phone (Argos are operating sales by reservation only) with a person at the door asking if I had a reservation before directing me into the store. I was expecting to be asked about a mask but wasn’t. Most customers were masked.
Got home and started setting up the phone – Google Play Store suggested I download the Covid tracking app
(I declined).
On the plus side, my lockdown supporting Dad, in local lockdown in Kildare, is proposing to break the lockdown at the weekend to travel to his holiday house! Strangely though, he hasn’t told me (the family skeptic) – I found out from my sister, whose husband he is planning to travel with!
Virgin Cellular cut me off from the internet on my LGG5 early last June and I still get Google messages. The most recent is a data usage warning message. I even get Google messages on my MotoG and I haven’t been connected with Fido for four years.
Here’s wishing him a pleasant stay in his holiday home.
That’s so sweet, PHE pulled off a complete Colette Bowe moment there, surely no one believes it took more than 10 minutes of computer time to correct the figures. They’ve been waiting for weeks in someone’s (figurative) desk drawer for the exam results to come out, surely.
Yep. I posted my guess at what the database SQL query would be a couple of weeks ago.
In all likelihood, all kinds of different queries would already exist to get different views of the data. They were cherry picking.
And of course, as you say, waiting for a good day to bury inconvenient news.
Exactly what I thought. At 7 years retirement after a career in IT I reckon I could have knocked up the necessary SQL in half a day. And you’re bang on about burying the news. This should be the biggest story out there today yet you’d be hard pressed to find any mention of it on the main news websites. I’m no conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer, 5G whatever but increasingly it seems to me that there is an agenda to keep the fear level ratcheted up.
Notice how the BBC reports the reduction as a percentage. This after they list two numbers, both over 40,000. They are playing this down, and can spend ages today talking about A level ‘exam’ results from exams that didn’t take place.
Great article!
Face Masks: What Does The Science Really Say?.
.
Face Masks Studies Are Ignoring the Real World
Lots more
https://drjockers.com/face-masks
Do masks have an effect?
As I’m in Ireland I’m following closely what impact the masking edict is having here.
The edict was announced on the 15th, July – but actually didn’t become law until the 10th August – most people seemed to respond as though it was instantly the law on the 15th July when it was announced.
The weekly number of “cases” are now four times what they were before the edict! So seemingly no success there. Though I suspect “cases” are very much a product of testing.
Hospital admissions seem to be increasing. They were low to begin with – only 2 – in the week up to the edict and 3 in the week after. But last week they’ve risen to 19.
Deaths – they appear to be decreasing. From around 10 in the week of the edict – to 3 or 5 last week. (Sorry for being impressive but the figures are presented in a muddled fashion on the Irish Government’s website.)
Make of that what you will.
But the main thing is that infections are at such a low level that the whole idea is barmy, anyway. Because figures of ‘cases’ are so exaggerated, you would have to have close contact with thousands of individuals to come across a real Covid virus.
Many masked zombies look exactly like hamsters.
With apologies to real hamsters, who are nice little guys on the whole.
Just been to my local Sainsbury’s in keighley. It was depressing, it was pretty busy and I was the only person, and I mean the only one, without a face mask. Some guy pointed to me and said ‘wear a face covering’ but I didn’t say anything as I got the impression that he had some mental health issues. It was depressing though, I am shocked by the compliance. Then on way home we had to stop at the pelican and there was a guy waiting to cross with mask under chin, he pulled up the mask to cross the road and then pulled it down again on the other side! What’s all that about? I’m a southerner living in Yorkshire and I’m always told about soft southerners and Yorkshire grit, well, I don’t see much Yorkshire grit in keighley.
Try Whitby/Saltburn-by-the-Sea area. Was there yesterday and saw only three face guards, no masks, at Saltburn. Whitby did have masks but only signs reminding of the government recommendation…which they wouldn’t be enforcing. Have to admit to admiring a face shield with jewels stuck on. If you have to wear one for work at least wear it with style and a big smile
Never mind Emily Morgan on ITV if you want to be really irritated try listening to Dr Sarah Jarvis on the Jeremy Vine R2 lunchtime show. She has been Miss Catastrophe from the very start and she was banging on the other day about other Covid effects that sounded just like post-viral fatigue.
Can’t stand that bitch Jarvis. Worse than Dr Hilary for doom-mongering.
I was always amazed she knew soddin’ absolutely everything about all medical conditions, so do I it’ s called Dr. Google.I imagine it is hers too!
Your words represent my thoughts exactly about these two. Both have a repellent manner not commensurate to how they perceive themselves. Not balanced individuals, not ones I would trust with health matters.
Serious question, why and how do the bad ‘uns always seem to rise to the top. Why cant there be a real meritocracy? Sorry for undergrad type question, but I am genuinely curious.
The bad’uns lie better, and are less concerned about whether something they need to say to get ahead is actually true or not.
Simple anthropology. Say 5% of us are psychopaths. The rest of us have empathy. All that is needed to propel into ‘leadership’ is a lack of empathy. At every point on a career path empathy restricts.
The old way and clear way of saying the same thing is those with sharp elbows get to the front.
It appears to be a glitch in the human species as natural as order and entropy; a natural conflict that gives life dynamism. You see it in other animals too.
…not ones I wouild trust.
Stop there, it’s more accurate.
Can’t listen to that program especially when Dr Sarah Jarvis is on. No dissent is allowed and she cuts people off in the middle of a sentence Dr Jarvis is a pharmaceutical shill. She has a nutritional qualification but sneer at it and at anything non-pharmaceutical, also firmly believe the vaccine dogma and advocate it.
Post viral fatigue is well known for more than 40 years and people get that after a particular serious viral attack. It is NOT new and NOT linked to Covid-19 only. Shame on her.
They tell me that
You get more Covid if you are fat,
But whether you are thin, average or very stout,
It always makes your hair fall out
Simon Dolan has called her out on Twitter several times.
Thank God I don’t have a telly so I don’t have to watch the abomination that is breakfast TV.
Watching breakfast tv isn’t actually mandatory.
Never watched any but I’ve always thought it must be a pernicious way to start the day.
Used to watch it back at uni for the weather reports – that was it. Then moved into a house that had no telly and never looked back since.
Hate her. Would gladly meet her at a dark spot.
Net Zero.
Maybe this whole thing is a dry run for it.
Learn to count, stop buggering up the data, save lives
A couple of items from The Telegraph live feed giving conflicting views on the so-called second wave:
UK ‘does not have enough herd immunity’ to prevent a second wave of Covid-19
A health [“]expert[“] has warned there is not currently enough immunity within the population of the UK to prevent a second wave of infection.
Dr Lilith Whittles, postdoctoral researcher in infectious disease epidemiology at Imperial College London, said calculating the infection rate – known as R – on a regional level is going to be “our best signifier” as to whether a second wave of coronavirus has started.
She agreed that the quick and proper management of local outbreaks would be the UK’s best way to prevent a second wave, and that not doing this could lead to a “similar-sized” peak to the peak seen in April.
Speaking on the results of the largest study on home coronavirus antibody testing, led by Imperial College London, Dr Whittles said: “We’re nowhere near the level of population immunity that we would need to prevent the occurrence of a second wave.
“In a worst-case scenario of a second wave we could see a peak of a similar size to the first.”
But then:
New data suggests the UK is not at the start of a second wave of Covid-19
The UK is not at the beginning of a second coronavirus wave, and is still trying to end the first, new data suggests.
There were 1,434 daily new cases in the UK on average over the two weeks up to August 8, excluding care homes, according to the latest Covid Symptom Study app figures.
The latest figures are based on the data from 10,988 swab tests that were taken between July 26 and August 8.
The latest prevalence figures estimate 24,131 people in the UK currently have symptoms of Covid-19, a figure that has remained stable nationally.
Tim Spector, professor of genetic epidemiology at King’s College London, told the PA News agency:
It’s encouraging to see that the numbers are coming down slightly across the UK and that the isolated outbreaks in the North of England appear to be well contained so far.
This is further confirmation that we aren’t at the beginning of a second wave and rather, still trying to end the first. The figures also suggest that the outbreaks we are seeing in other countries such as Belgium, France and Spain aren’t having an effect here in the UK yet.
On top of this, the hot weather which caused concern by making many flock to crowded beaches and parks doesn’t seem to be having the predicted negative impact.
Overall, we are pleasantly surprised by the figures this week, which are back down to the early July levels and hope that the good news continues.
So I wonder what the actual situation is?
OH, she works for Imperial College – no conflict of interest there then.
R for red herring too.
“calculating the infection rate – known as R – on a regional level is going to be “our best signifier”
What a f.ing know-nothing. There seem to be a significant proportion of those who have studied epidemiology in a narrow sheltered world who have a tremendous overestimate of their ability, and a corresponding low level of general scientific skills.
William Farr must be turning in his grave.
P.S. Spikes and stochastic variation with low numbers are indicators of nothing. Simple basic probability – and ‘second waves’ are not certain concomitants of epidemics by a long chalk. Once again go to CEBM for good information.
R rate reintroduced to guide narrative. No coincidence. I feel psychologically nudged today. 1.3 R here in krankies uptopian land of horrors. That’s headline news, because one model suggested it today.
Keep an eye out for more R.
Returning to R rates feels like a stale idea. Are they struggling against short attenion spans to keep their illusion going.
W.M. Briggs did a great piece on the R value a month or two ago. I can’t find the link now but if I do I will post it.
The R value (whether it’s R0, ‘the R value’ or ‘the real time R) is meaningless without the CFR or case fatality rate. There’s a hell of a difference between an ‘R value’ of, say, 2 and a CFR=0% and R=2, CFR=100%!
DavidC
Spot on – R rates + Cases = Fictions.
Another week, another doom prophecy from ICL. Sponsored by…
Not sure where these jokers at Imperial have been over the past few months…up their own rectums maybe? However they keep conveniently ignoring all the studies on T-cell immunity and calculating population immunity from antibody rates. Just adding to the dross coming out of this failed institution!
Seriously – how can supposed experts in a field at this level just repeatedly ignore such important and widely disseminated and accepted, relevant data, and not just get openly laughed at when they make assertions that are clear nonsense?
And if there is not enough herd immunity, whose fucking fault is it? (Rhetorical)
“Speaking on the results of the largest study on home coronavirus antibody testing, led by Imperial College London, Dr Whittles said: “We’re nowhere near the level of population immunity that we would need to prevent the occurrence of a second wave.”
So if the herd immunity threshold is much higher than where are are now, how do they explain that infections are not rising exponentially, as they were before lockdown, given we have largely opened up?
Silly boy! Masks, of course!
Because it’s summer. Even though it’s not seasonal so we can’t be complacent. But watch out because WINTER IS COMING!!
Once again, it’s not like the flu except when it is.
If we’re “nowhere near” the level of population immunity we need she needs to explain why the second wave hasn’t happened yet even though restrictions were lifted some time ago, why there are 5x more deaths from other viruses, and why only 10% of people with Covid symptoms are testing positive.
Evidently in the current state of people’s behaviour viruses can spread. Perhaps less than normal for this time of year, but nothing like enough what you would need to suppress a highly infectious virus to which 95% were still susceptible.
It is clear that susceptibility has to be lower than the antibody studies indicate. There are several plausible reasons for this: We know there is substantial cross immunity from other coronaviruses, and that the levels of antibodies are not that high for that long especially in cases of mild infection. This does not mean people are not immune (they still have memory cells). If they did lose immunity we would expect to have seen many cases of confirmed reinfection by now.
Have these points ever been put to the “experts” by anyone in the MSM? I can’t recall ever seeing it.
So is it plausible that in places like the UK, Spain, Germany, France and so on, there’ll be a continuing ‘background’ of infections for a very long time?
Like nits. Big deal.
Yes there will be a background level of infection everywhere for the foreseeable future. It doesn’t die out completely because new hosts keep being born.
NL63 for example is another coronavirus that came from bats. It also binds to the ACE2 receptor and can cause a nasty viral pneumonia.
We can estimate how long ago the original pandemic was from the number of neutral mutations in its genome from its relatives. It works out to around 1000 years ago.
Every winter a few people get NL63. Also in the summer only fewer. Some die. Even in New Zealand. The R number of NL63 has been about 1 since the time of the Norman conquest. SARS2 has just joined the club.
Thank you! My next question is, do young children become infected and recover from a huge number of these viruses en route to adulthood, (and humanity needs to keep passing them around in youth), so most people have contracted NL63 and recovered already? Or are just a few very old people unlucky enough to contract it, and if so, why?
Good question. I think what probably happens is we all get reinfected with them every few years but usually only mildly as we have memory T and B cells so quickly recreate the antibodies.
The first time you have each one as a child it’s probably worse. And when you get old you tend to get colds worse again as your immune system is getting a bit tired (“immunosenescence” it’s called).
Most of the T cell studies found cross reactivity to SARS2 in about half of people. So why only half if you can have this from any HCoV? You’d think most people would have had all the HCoVs at some point but maybe not. Or perhaps the immune memory of the other HCoVs is not always so strong as they are less severe.
Basically you keep cloning B and T cells until you get better and some proportion of them become memory cells. So you should generally end up with a stronger memory of the bad ones.
The recent UCL study that found the actual humoral cross immunity seemed to be saying the S2 epitope (the bit of the spike that the antibodies stick to) was conserved across all the HCoVs but perhaps some are better than others as a natural vaccine against SARS2.
And of course there may be more HCoVs out there that we’ve all been getting infected with for thousands of years that haven’t been discovered yet. We only found NL63 in 2004 because SARS1 had got our attention.
The other reason you can get reinfected is the virus mutating but I think coronaviruses do this quite a bit less than the influenza ones.
Yes, thanks also. I thought it would be the case that coronavirus is here to stay, like so many other infections, and this should not be a problem for mankind. However, the future does not bode well, given the global hysteria and paranoia we are now witnessing – see NZ, for example. I get depressed sometimes thinking that the futile attempts to eradicate this disease will go on indefinitely, alongside mask wearing and antisocial distancing.
I suspect those futile attempts to eradicate the disease will very soon be submerged by more urgent concerns about debt default, credit worthiness of major international companies, unemployment, and in the UK’s case, delays and shortages of imports after Christmas.
The same as the common cold; and I’ll ignore it in the same way.
Hell will freeze over before anyone actually eradicates this virus. Even with a vaccine.
Viruses can be eradicated but they need to have shorter incubation and be more severe.
Sturgeon and Arden can come back when they’ve eradicated HIV, Ebola, TB, Malaria, Dengue and Zika. Then we’ll talk.
What’s more, it has been fairly clear since the data from the Diamond Princess were first published in mid March that only a small proportion of the population were susceptible. MID MARCH!! So why all the panic? Bonkers
People have been “flocking” to beaches and parks throughout spring and summer because there’s been bugger all else to do. I think it’s about the sixth time that disaster has been predicted, and not arrived, as a result.
Side note, what is a “home antibody testing”?
I thought you need a blood test for that? Or is it a drop of blood like testing for sugar levels? Of course that does not give an accurate picture!
Lilith ? They’re not even trying to hide this satanic shit anymore.
We could, we might … All vague pronouncements. They just like to keep talking about it even if there is nothing to talk about. Fills up the air time.
Holy shit…
https://mobile.twitter.com/_reddpill/status/1293400780167208960
Someone please wake me up from this nightmare…
She really is a horror.
I saw that earlier and after watching it closely i think it is fake. I think it is dubbed. The speech is not matching the lip formation even if you factor in a time delay on sound/movement. IMHO!
You could be right. There are some strange facial expressions there from the saint. However, I wouldn’t put it past them to do such a thing, even if it doesn’t make any sense to have such a regime.
“ Meanwhile, Saint Jacinda has announced that anyone who tests positive in NZ will be forced to quarantine in a government managed facility”. Given that they’re doing that I wouldn’t be surprised if they held people longer than the 14 days.
Sounds that will really encourage people to get tested.
Her speech never matches her lip pattern with the size of her bloody teeth. They spend most of the time trying to escape her mouth from what I can tell!
She’s a closet vampire.
Maybe out of the closet now.
Oooh, I find that S-O-O-O sexy!
DavidC
Ahh! The chosen controller of NZ. It was the teeth wot dunnit.
WOW, this is incredible. Detained for up to a month “in a facility” What a psycho bitch. Her teeth come from hell too.
There was a time when imprisonment without trial was an affront to human rights.
Remember those?
Amnesty International?
but see the tweet further down that twitter
https://mobile.twitter.com/bat_soup_crazy/status/1293864004280922112
amusing
The assumption is that 60 % of the population will be infected with the high R value for C-19 before it is finished. The epidemiologists want us to believe that their clever lockdown and/or social distance measures will reduce the number of infected and we are left open to next attack unless immunized. Why not test this with reality and see how much deaths we would have if the C-19 went unhindered in the population? Let us take three examples where the most part of the pandemic went unhindered and in one case absolutely without any control at all, natural experiments
Pakistan 220 million with 60% HI and IFR 0.3% 396 000 deaths IFR 0.01% 13 200 deaths
Reality 6600 deaths
Egypt 100 million with 60% HI and IFR 0.3% 180 000 deaths IFR 0.01% 6000 deaths
Reality 5000 deaths
Haiti 11 million with 60% HI and IFR 0.3% 19800 deaths IFR 0.01% 660 deaths
Reality 172 deaths
Even using a very low IFR (unrealistically low according to many experts) not even then in the example of Haiti (which had an absolutely unhindered pandemic) would we reach 60%.
Why not accept that there must be some form of resistance in the population whether we can assess it or not with antibodies or other measures?
And if we accept IFR 0.01% or even lower so we can reach the famous 60% level we have reduced the mortality of Covid-19 to a nothingburger.
This is a very good illustration.
I actually think IFR probably is about 0.01% and HIT around 50 or 60%. But of course IFR varies quite a bit with the age and/or comorbidities of the population.
But prevalence as measured by serology tops out at about 20%, and IFR measured by serology usually works out at more like 0.03%.
20% serology and 75% asymptomatic (and 0.01%) is also about what you end up with a flu season.
As we now know cross-immunity means you can clear the infection with different antibodies for related viruses (plus of course all the other immune subsystems, like killer T cells, innate immunity, etc.) that the test won’t detect and this is probably the reason for low serology and high asymptomatic rates both for flu and Covid.
A severe infection, even if you have some cross-immunity, will probably result in some SARS2-specific antibodies as well. This is why when the antibody tests are calibrated they usually end up with more like 70% sensitivity. But in the real world it seems to be quite a bit lower (as various studies have shown, including the one in Lübeck). This is so-called “spectrum bias”.
If there really had been no cross-immunity to SARS2 it would have been a lot worse– IFR and HIT would both have been much higher.
AFAIK Fergie is still maintaining 0.9% IFR and 95% of the UK susceptible. This is patently ridiculous.
Very good, both. Good analysis.
There’s one problem with HIT estimates: it assumes there’s no cross-reactive immunity, which we know is not true
I think you include the cross immunity in the calculation. We usually have some degree of cross immunity to most things so this comparing like with like.
The reason NL63 is “milder” than SARS2 is just because we’re used to it. It might seem like it would be clearer to characterise the viruses separately from the hosts. But it just doesn’t work like that. So I think we should accept that HIT and IFR are functions both of the virus and the host population.
If you do, then 60% HIT makes no sense. If memory serves me right, 60% is what was initially speculated back in March. After that, in May, I think, it was shown that there is cross-reactive immunity, and the team who demonstrated it advanced the hypothesis that that immunity was present in 40–60% of the population.
In any event, I think given the spillover and the pandemic, HIT is a redherring: SARS-CoV-2 now has a natural reservoir—humans, and no matter what you do it will contribute to some deaths. The best way to deal with it is through natural ‘inoculation’ (i. e. get infected when you’re healthy) at a young age, something that despite all evidence people are stupidly refusing to do because “WHY DON’T YOU THINK OF THE CHILDREN???”
Yes, that is what I was wondering about above where I asked what we know about the viruses children shake off en route to adulthood, and what age and characteristics mark out those who still die of, say, NL63? Oddly, my posts are currently being held up for approval so don’t know if it’s surfaced yet – they don’t have any links or anything, don’t know what I’m doing wrong??
Everything you want (and probably don’t want) to know about HCoV-NL63: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2918871/
Thanks! Led me on to more stuff, it seems children do die of CV19 according to one recent US study across 26 states, 4 of 186. (2%), seems a high rate compared to UK, but obesity, ethnicity etc not in the abstract which is all I can access:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32598831/
Only 49 children under 15 has died of C-19 according to CDC
https://twitter.com/tlowdon/status/1293947746521620480/photo/1
Thanks for the link, some interesting things in there: “Of the rare findings, a group has reported the association between HCoV-NL63 and Kawasaki disease […] However, others fail to report on this association”.
And then, “SARS-CoV infections appear to stimulate cross-reactive antibody responses to other human coronaviruses, including HCoV-NL63”, citing this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1287763/
Just to remind everyone, we’re talking about a ~1000 year old virus here that was discovered in 2004.
Just to clarify that because it may be misleading. They found that SARS1 antibodies reacted against other HCoVs but they didn’t think this happened the other way round. The main concern seems to have beeen to develop a specific serology test for SARS1.
All the same this cross reactivity should have been a clue (and no doubt was) that we might find some level of cross immunity which indeed have for SARS2.
I suspect that about 50% of the population have had a mild infection with SARS-COV2. The cross immunity is only “sterilising” in a majority of children and a minority of everyone else (probably anyone who had a recent relatively severe HCoV infection).
Basically what I’m saying is I would not be surprised to find that if you had PCR tested everyone every day from January until now the total number who were ever positive would turn out to be about 50%.
Germany (who had PCR tests at the peak) were getting as high as 20% positive in drive thru PCR. Since you’re positive for a couple of weeks (usually) this probably adds up to about 50% of everyone positive at some time.
I would have thought that cross-reactive immunity is stronger in adults as they had far more exposure to various forms form the coronavirdae family.
I’d go furher than you on the PCR: I wouldn’t be surprised if the same person would get alternating results if tested numerous times.
A positive PCR is simply not indicative of an infection—axiomatically to be infected you have to have the disease caused by an infectious agent! What is happening now, is that various people seem to employ post hoc ergo propter hoc logic: we detected something that resembles a gene of an infective agent therefore you have an infection therefore you’re diseased… In the pre-COVID-19 world: you seem ill; let’s see what is causing it; ah, it’s this infectious agent!
It appears to be much stronger in children though. This is the paper:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.14.095414v1
They do test people multiple times sometimes and sometimes find +, – +. But this is because the test has low sensitivity.
After you’ve got recovered it’s very rare to still positive. But probably still a relevant source of false positives once prevalence is very low.
I’ll read it properly tomorrow, it’s far too densely typeset to be read at this time of night, but I don’t see anything about the description of the cohort demographics at a first glance.
Nice to see the 60 year old patient getting IgG response that I figured a lot of people would be getting.
Have you seen any ROC curves for these tests, I can’t seem to locate any?
That paper is the most important cross-immunity study I’ve seen. Figure 4C shows the dramatic age distribution.
Note that that doesn’t mean people in the older age groups don’t have memory T and B cells giving some cross immunity. But the children actually had neutralizing antibodies from HCoV infections (presumably in the last few months to a year). This is the best explanation yet for why so few of them get ill.
This page has a nice graphical Bayes theorem calculator at the top: https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1808
And a thing they called a “leaf plot” a bit further down which looks like basically the same thing.
Out of interest, what is the situation in Haiti now, has the virus worked its way through the population and disappeared?
It’s a very young population, this presumably slews the figures?
I imagine Ferguson would probably put it down to Voodoo…
No, it’s this country that us being ruled on voodoo principles. Voodoo masks, voodoo science.
This is a good graph.Almost disappeared
https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1292486892823470084/photo/1
Retail Report
Mrs Doubting had a trip to the optician today, I had been when they reopened in June, but that was before mask became de rigueur.
She said to me before I left for work this morning that she was not looking forward to wearing a mask and the door being locked as she walked into the shop, she had been told in the appointment telephone call “masks are on £1 each.”
I said do what we do when we go to the supermarket tell them you are exempt, if questioned.
Anyway waited for allotted time slot, door unlocked, in without mask, no questions at all, which Mrs Doubting was grateful for. She used her own special bottle of hand sanitiser
Overall not a bad experience, optician and her assistants all masked, etc, that is down to the individual, employer etc. etc. This is an independent optician, not part of a chain.
Then on to Lidl & Waitrose. Sadly most people both staff & customers apparently masked, although Waitrose slightly more than Lidl.
New video from Ivor Cummins on the “Casedemic” — the epidemic ended a long time ago. Really excellent!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU3OibcindQ
Just had some strange news about care homes. My 89 year old Mother In law has gone downhill during lockdown and is now in need of full time care. She lives on her own and the shielding and lack of social contact has finally got to her. However the new rules on care homes means that if she goes into a home she will have to isolate by not leaving her room for a full 10 days. Even if she has had a test on the day she goes into the home. I think having to spend 10 days on her own in a new room will finally finish her off. Madness just madness….
Is there any way you can get a part-time caregiver to help her out and keep her in her home? My recently deceased grandmother was locked down since early February and her life became so miserable she had no will to live. Never mind isolating for 10 days upon arrival, my grandmother was isolated for months! And this was a private, high-end retirement home. No social interaction with the other residents and meals left outside her door for MONTHS. I think they may have opened the dining room again a while back, but residents couldn’t even sit together so it was simply eating a meal somewhere different from their room but still isolated. My mom was unable to visit for months. I know it may not be possible for your MIL to stay in her home, but if there’s any way you can make it happen I recommend it. I can tell you from personal experience that if she’s struggling now, she won’t last long in a care home. I agree with you — it is madness.
That’s appalling. Prisoners are treated better than that!
Farm animals are treated better than that.
They’re not allowed to impose solitary confinement on prisoners for that long, as it causes mental health problems. Ask Tommy Robinson….
thanks Lisa. yes we already have a part time carer. We are looking for full time. The care home told me that even if one of their residents leaves the premises (pops down the road for a newspaper) they then have to isolate for 10 days !!
They tried that at my grandmother’s place as well. If she needed to leave for a doctor’s appointment then she’d have to quarantine. The sad thing is she was pretty much quarantined anyway so it wouldn’t have made a whole lot of difference. Then the government tried to get all visitors to be Covid tested every 2 weeks just to spend one hour a week with their loved one. As if 13 days after a negative test you couldn’t be positive! Thankfully that didn’t last long. My mom had a few outdoor visits and then, finally, one indoor visit before my grandmother passed away. I’m glad to hear you’re trying to find full-time care for your MIL. Best of luck!
Similar experience with my mother. It’s not madness, it’s abject cruelty
Shop report:
Last week, I went to Aldi and they were spraying so much antibacterial junk about that it made me feel ill. I wrote and complained that, had I been asthmatic, it would definitely have triggered an attack and I pointed out that they were endangering the health of their customers and staff with excessive and unnecessary precautions. As this had never happened before, I asked if this was new policy because if it was I’d appreciate a headsup so I could find somewhere else to shop.
This was the reponse I received:
Dear xxx
Thank you for contacting Aldi Customer Services.
As the current situation is unprecedented, we are reviewing all customer feedback, ensuring we are taking the necessary steps as a responsible retailer to provide help and support where we can. Please be assured I will pass on your feedback.
Please find a link to our website where you can find out more about what we are doing in relation to Coronavirus – https://www.aldi.co.uk/covid19
Thank you for your support and we look forward to your continued custom.
Yours sincerely
xxx
Customer Service Advisor
To which, I replied:
Dear xxx
Thank you for your rapid boilerplate response to my letter.
I have looked at the link and there is no mention of liberal spraying with stinky antibacterials, which are a potential health hazard. No mention of spraying at all, in fact.
I’d appreciate a proper reply to my letter now.
Thank you.
Result: A further email, asking for a convenient time when they could call and discuss it with me. Which took place this afternoon.
A very chirpy young lady had clearly read my email properly and, with lots of empathy, extended profuse apologies for my experience. She asked if I still had the till receipt so they could contact the store manager to ascertain the till operator. I hadn’t kept it, but assured her that I went last night and there was no evidence of spraying, all was the pleasant experience I’d come to expect, so maybe it was a touch of excessive cleaning zeal.
She gave me some spiel about customer safety and I pointed out that, as the staff couldn’t escape it, it was more hazardous for them. She said she’d contact the storemanager and make sure it didn’t happen again.
As she was bringng the matter to a close, I asked if I could raise another matter with her. I noted that the facemask sign says: “Please wear a face covering” and how nice that it wasn’t aggressive, like some shops. I then asked if it would be possible to point out that some people are exempt from wearing masks. She was straight on it and said that she’d take it up with management and see about getting the signs amended.
So, brownie points to Aldi for customer service. Let’s hope they follow through!
300 people tested “positive” at Greencore factory in Northampton. Can anyone here with any influence ask a media type to follow this up and see how many of these 300 are ill or become ill? This seems like our Diamond Princess moment: a discreet group of people who supposedly will all become gravely ill (if you happen to be an employee there reading this – you won’t). So if 300 have got it and none (few) are ill, then surely that’s big news… Surely…
Greencore supply M&S sandwiches. That will be M&S doomed then: workers might have coughed on the sandwiches. How long can coronavirus survive on prawns? But you should be OK if you wear a mask whilst eating your M&S sandwich.
They would have all been wearing masks to make up the sandwiches, whoops.
In Germany they got 1500 positive PCR tests from workers at the meat processing plant.
3 were ill.
Which reminds me of the 120-odd cases at the AS Green farm in Malvern, back in mid-July. What happened to all of them I wonder? Death and destruction? Or back picking the purple sprouting? I think I can guess which.
“Two further workers who tested negative have left the farm and are being contacted by their employment agency to ensure they are self-isolating.
“This is in addition to three people who left the farm previously, who have all confirmed with their employment agency that they are self-isolating.
“A number of workers have completed their period of self-isolation and will be able to resume their daily activities. These workers will be able to return to work or leave the farm…
A group of agricultural workers who travelled into the UK by private coach, including some of the workers who went on to work at AS Green and Co, were being followed up.
Another group of workers travelled to the site on a flight bringing agricultural workers to the UK. The council said as an additional precaution, those travellers are also being followed up.
Seventy-six workers on the flight who travelled onwards to other farms in England have already been offered testing and no further cases have been identified to date.
Public health partners in Scotland have been notified of a further group of 63 workers on the same flight who travelled onwards to Scottish farms in order that they too can be followed-up appropriately.”
Birmingham Mail
Ask the news source that broke this news what was the aftermath. Any followup or was it just a slow news day.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/two-more-flee-covid-hit-18633452
Heads Up – Government desperate to get a higher infection rate (and all your details), and maybe further lockdowns!!
I was going to use the naughty F word!
They won’t get any help, DNA or any viral fragments from me (and, by the way, we all carry bacteria, viruses and other microbes on and in us – ALL of us!).
DavidC
I think it was Dr. Vernon Coleman who remarked that we carry 1.5 kg of bacteria in our bodies.
Straight in the bin
This is the second time they’ve done this: I got a similar letter in June.
Yeah, binned it twice now. What’s the odds of 2 of us having had this out of maybe 1000/5 =200 people commenting on this site? (comments/ possible frequency, to arrive at persons )?
Bit like working out the IFR from the number of tests when you don’t know how many tests related to the same people, perhaps…
Maybe we could all try swabbing boiled water and then see what the returned results are!
This is ridiculous, how can any sample taken at home by an ordinary person EVER be held to be accurate and NOT BE CONTAMINATED with loads of other genetic junk????
Just imagine, “ok get the swab out the thing, hold it by the end, oops wrong end, damn I forgot to wash my hands, better get some gloves, I will stick down on the table for a sec…Can I borrow your gloves luv? Can’t find them? You had them in the car, after you went to Tescos, must be on the floor of the car….hang on, OK gloves on, oops dropped it in the dog bowl , ok oops wrong end again, No Fido don’t lick it….OK here we go….Up the nose, ouch that hurt OK, that will do”.
Such Bollocks. Mrs 2-6 got one of those invites, straight in the bin…
Paw paw the test.
Try an avocado this time – right colour.
Nobody will be able to identify you….[but] if your test is positive, we will inform NHS Test and Trace [so that they can make your life a misery].
Straight in the bin. I always also turn off my Bluetooth module on my mobile unless I’m actually driving so that the T&T can’t operate.
…Imperial College London may link the results to other information… So your privacy goes straight out the window. You would be mad, completely mad, to take part in this.
About as useful as a DBS check or HIV test. THAT MOMENT you might be in the clear. Go shopping an hour later, win the lottery and bump into someone who coughs into your mouth.
What a waste of resources!
Send me one, send me one PLEASE.
I will stick it in some artichoke juice and send it back.
You can bet your life I’ll be filming the entire process, and me getting my result.
I know this was posted somewhere else here today but I can’t find it now, too many comments (which in itself is encouraging, given that I’ve been coming here since it’s inception and witnessed a huge increase in traffic.) This video is quite an eye opener, but be patient with the translation and the quality. Doctors saying the whole thing is a scam so it’s in danger of being taken down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn0V5uItsVc&list=TLPQMTMwODIwMjCPvlHH4Mytag&index=1
Their website http://www.acu2020.org is also essential for those here who thin this is much more than global incompetence. Bookmark it, it is part of the fight back.
Why are they all wearing white coats in the briefing?! We should be basing are judgement of their arguments on their content rather than from inferred authority.
Why not.
It’s a symbol of who they are and what they represent, and counters the pronouncements from politicians.
They’re frontline doctors, not suits in an office somewhere, like Neil Ferguson, coming up with nonsense predictions.
Thank you, Very powerful.
English version: https://acu2020.org/international/
Interesting to note the change in tone from the CMO in Scotland now that getting kids back to school is a priority. For example:
‘The number of hospital admissions of those with a positive case has shown a sustained decline since April. From 25 June to 15 July there was on average one admission per day. From 10 to 19 July there were 0 confirmed patients admitted to intensive care; in the latest week (to 2 August), 2 new Covid patients were admitted. There has been a sustained decline in the number of deaths per week where Covid is recorded on the death certificate. There has been no such death for 21 consecutive days up to 6 August. SAGE’s consensus view, as of 5 August , was that the value of Rt in Scotland was between 0.6 and 1.0.’
So why are still in ‘lockdown’?
From ‘School reopening: scientific evidence August 2020 – Chief Medical Officer note’
More on why there’s nothing to worry about here:
https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-preparing-start-new-school-term-august-2020/
Explicitly claiming they have had success “suppressing the virus”. Probably the most bare-faced lie I’ve seen from a government so far in all of this.
I think we’re going to be hearing that with increasing regularity from now on!
Not to contradict you at all. Just to record the fact alongside your post. Sturgeon today used R 1.3 from a model she claimed represented the current situation.
As I said not a contradiction. Just what we are faced with.
Her tone matched what you say. No cause for undue alarm she dictated. A month ago lives would have teetered in the balamce. But today, no.
How many of these bastards believe the lies and how many know they are lying?
The secret of being a good liar is to convince yourself. But now that I look more closely it is actually true that “Scotland” has suppressed the virus. Specifically it is the immune systems of the good people of Scotland that have done it.
I’m gonna say it.
Could that be partly because Scotland is less ‘ethnically diverse’ than England? ;P
There’s absolutely no reason to believe the situation in Scotland is any different to that in England though
It’s just the ONS don’t test Scotland for some reason so we don’t know.
“Probably the most bare-faced lie I’ve seen from a government so far in all of this.”
And let’s face it, that’s no mean achievement, considering the competition.
I guess they are trying to say that they have killed it. Not quite sure how they did that but it would be good if the MSM asked them.
The English government is not as quick or smart as the Scottish government. Still panicking about small numbers of cases in the North West.
My guess is that in a couple of weeks or so they will be giving similar messages when they realise that the school opening process is not likely to go to plan.
Fake Pandemic Re-Run: Similarities Between 1976 Swine Flu and 2020 COVID:
https://thefreedomarticles.com/same-fake-pandemic-similarities-1976-swine-flu-2020-covid/
Offlands,
A very good article and though provoking.
One of the points raised at the end of it, I must admit, hadn’t crossed my (and should have!) – namely that any vaccine, whether it works or not, whether it contains toxins or not, bypasses ALL the body’s own protective system (nasal filtration, mucous membrane, the skin itself, coughing(!)) and its microbiome (and the various protective parts they play in fighting off disease or helping to develop resistance or immunity) and goes straight into the bloodstream.
I’d hazard a guess that Jenner’s original smallpox innoculations didn’t include all the preservatives, adjuvants, non human cellular material and other crud that the modern vaccines do.
DavidC
It didn’t. Modern “vaccines” are utter filth compared with the original versions.
Any thinking person who reads a list of modern vaccine contents, and doesn’t think “They’re taking the piss” is beyond hope.
I was being a bit ironic! I agree with you!
DaviC
That’s why I’m basically anti-vax.
when they call us up for the vaccine go to the appointment and ask the nurse for a written full list of ingredients, a full test report for the vaccine, the risk analysis and contraindications, liabilities etc before accepting having something injected into your body. Well by the time that is provided, and it won’t be the allocated 10mins timeslot will have expired. Walk out and say when you can provide all the relevant information then i’ll consider the vaccine.
I am curious. If somebody dies of this virus are we all now responsible? It is probably impossible to pinpoint the person or persons that initiated the chain of infection leading ultimately to death. But by not doing everything we possibly could at every moment of every day then does this mean that we have failed collectively as a society?
It seems to me as if this is how things are being framed.
Yes, very good point. An excellent illustration of the madness underlying a lot of the measures and positions being taken.
There was a report yesterday on msm television giving the account of a care worker who had tested positive and ‘unknowingly’ gone between homes working away, also visited her elderly mother in a a third carehome. Her mother had died of covid as had some in the other care homes she had been working in. The report included the lady talking to the reporter supposedly haunted by the very possiblility she had ‘killed’ all these people. Oh woe the regret this lady had if she had only known. She must have known it was a dangerous practice to mix carehomes, if she didn’t her manahers ought to have known.
Personally I had little time for the regret because without proof who is to say the care worker’s mother hadn’t passed it on to the care worker originally.
The implication is clearly there that we are murderers now for being alive. But societies laws are not up to finding guilt even if such a burden has newly tried to be foisted upon us.
It is absurd.
Absolutely. The cause is not directly attributable. It’s not like deliberately infecting someone with HIV or a drunk driver killing someone. If you extend the logic being applied it would be the same as saying if you don’t give money to the Red Cross you’re responsible for someone dying in Africa. “They could have been saved if it wasn’t for your selfishness”
Or a supermarket selling a chicken and the buyer dying from food poisoning because they didn’t cook it properly.
The only granny killers are those people that blindly follow the useless government rules, instead of advocating and demanding a managed herd immunity strategy with special protection for the most vulnerable.
https://medium.com/@staceyrudin/anti-lockdowners-take-a-stand-23250fec0416
It reminds me of something the late DJ John Peel once said. He had been an early supporter of Marc Bolan’s band Tyrannosaurus Rex, who later went on to great success as T Rex. However Bolan was unable to cope with that level of fame, his life became a bit of a mess and he ended up dead after crashing his car. Peel wasn’t arrogantly thinking that Bolan owed his success solely to Peel’s early support, but he said it had crossed his mind that maybe without that support Bolan would not have died in that way. But Peel then forced himself to dismiss that thought, quoting King Lear’s “That way madness lies”.
I’ve just checked and it was actually Bolan’s girlfriend driving the car which crashed. But it doesn’t change the point.
“It seems to me as if this is how things are being framed.”
Yep. We’re all being framed!
I’m trying to avoid shopping as much as possible, but I’m waiting for the moment when a guard sprays me with sanitiser or insists that I can’t go in without being sprayed. I will:
*Apologies to any Muslims if I have unwittingly caused any offence. It may be that saying I am Muslim when I am not is a wrong thing to do in your faith, in which case, I won’t do that. I’ll think of something else to say: That I am a member of the Plymouth Brethren, to whom alcohol is evil, or that I am allergic to alcohol, or that it interacts with some strong medication and they may need to call a doctor or some such.
I think the hand sanitiser fad in shops has died out, just like the one way bollocks, queuing and eventually the masks. All completely pointless and all completely ignored by the sane at all times.
So true – but it does give one a guide to the mental health of much of our population.
At my tourist attraction we are forced to offer hand muck and most people use it, apparently unconsciously, except when they set small children down and plaster them with it.
I put the bottle in as inconspicuous a position as possible, I water the gunk down, I tell people not to bother, I tell them they’re preparing bacterial Armageddon, I tell them it doesn’t kill Corona, but a lot of them seem to be participating in collective obsessive-compulsive behaviour.
Then they go swimming and the foul muck gies straight into the sea.
It’s part of their madness routine now. Like queuing. I went to Sainsbury’s the other day and there was a bloke standing out the front waiting to go in, only thing was there was nobody telling him to queue. He was voluntarily queuing. I walked past him and straight in. He’s probably still there now waiting to be waved in.
It’d make a good Monty Python sketch. The Ministry of Silly Queuing.
Queue jumper !!!
It doesn’t. Soap and water is much better, the soap helps to break the lipd capsid of the virus, alcohol won’t do that.
DavidC
Ethanol does dissolve lipid bilayers though:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3526990/
Noted and thanks for pointing out Bob.
DavidC
Yes, that’s it – collective OCD.
Have you actually tried offering “Hand muck ?” ?
Definitely seeing people ignore them and most of them look like its been the same bottle for weeks now.
My husband has taken to testing them all and then making comments about how they compare – he does not hold back & so far people have gone along with it!
If anybody sprays me with anything without my consent, I will treat it as the assault it is and act accordingly.
In May I entered a local shop which sells loose foods and environmentally friendly products, to be immediately confronted by the owner and then sprayed with sanitizer without my consent. I was so surprised I did not realise what she had done until later. Of course I will never set foot into her shop again.
If anyone sprays me with any kind of disgusting chemical without my consent I am afraid they will regret it,likewise if they shove a thermometer in my face.
Spray me – which is assault – and watch your nose spray.
I don’t think the supermarkets are so bothered now. Certainly the hand sanitiser has vanished from the entrance to Aldi. Most people had got to the point where they just walked straight past it anyway.
You probably won’t have a problem. If you get a Karen on the shop door, tell them you can’t have it because you’re allergic, and if they insist, take pleasure in finding an alternative, more reasonable shop.
I don’t really see anyone sanitising the trollies and baskets either.
Not for a couple of weeks. And they’ve started chaining up the trollies again too.
Crazy that the sanitizer actually made some sense but they’ve stopped using it and the pointless and unsanitary muzzle fad has replaced it.
In the beginning B&Q were forcing you to take a trolley (for social distancing…yeah right) and at the entrance were spraying and giving to each customers. Quite a lot of manpower and hassle to collect the trolleys and spray etc. It lasted about 2 weeks !!
Hopefully all the other stupid measures will follow suit, including masks.
Just been to tesco naked (not literally but maskless) – no-one took any notice of me. Though i went to B&Q earlier (no i don’t live in there lol) and lass on the door said “do you have a mask” – to avoid controversy i just pulled my bandana up for all of about 30 seconds. But the idiocy of this the staff don’t wear masks – so if there was any merit/benefit to wearing then should apply to all including staff, although wearing for a shift would be incredibly difficult. I didn’t want to give the young girl a hard time as she’s only doing what she’s been told to do.
I think if you say you are a Muslim, you’re in for the rest of your life. Not keen on apostates.
say what you like about islam it’s a free country and criticism of a made up load of old bollocks is allowed.
Nick Cave, today, on ‘cancel culture’:
“As far as I can see, cancel culture is mercy’s antithesis. Political correctness has grown to become the unhappiest religion in the world.
Its once honourable attempt to reimagine our society in a more equitable way now embodies all the worst aspects that religion has to offer (and none of the beauty) – moral certainty and self-righteousness shorn even of the capacity for redemption. It has become quite literally, bad religion run amuck.
Cancel culture’s refusal to engage with uncomfortable ideas has an asphyxiating effect on the creative soul of a society.
Compassion is the primary experience – the heart event – out of which emerges the genius and generosity of the imagination.”
Same with most dogmatic ideologies that are unable to adapt, because this particular ideology is already “perfect”. Right up to the moment it goes wrong of course…
Strong, well chosen words!
Well said Nick Cave. It would be interesting to know his views on the Australian police. It’s difficult to find anything humorous in that situation, but since many Australians are descended from convicts, are their police descended from the prison guards? Or the other way round?
Ironically, many of the original convicts were political dissidents.
I’ve always loved this weird and wonderful man. Nice to know he is sound.
Bit like Marilyn Manson. Looks mental, when you hear him he’s the most sensible person alive.
Here we go again:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/13/oldham-brink-full-lockdown-coronavirus-cases-surge/
Katrina Stephens, the director of public health for Oldham Council, said a full lockdown could take place in “days rather than weeks” unless people adhered to rules.
It’s always the ‘peoples’ fault, never that the rules are wrong or the whole strategy is flawed.
“whole strategy is flawed” That’s the thing the amazes me most – once you’ve accepted some basic facts, it’s blindingly obvious that herd immunity is the only viable approach to this, unless you believe in miracles or want to end meaningful human life forever. A child could grasp this.
‘A child could grasp this.’ Yes – but show me an MP with such sophisticated cognitive abilities!
MPs must be very sophisticated – they have the ability to switch their cognitive abilities off when they need to go along with bullshit to get/stay in power
I really agree with a comment that Peter Hitchens made about Johnson. Politicians are getting intoxicated with taking “decisive” measures.
Andy Burnham is a classic example. Mayor is really a non job. He feels powerful now writing to supermarkets to “tell” them to enforce mask wearing and also criticizing publicans. But, as we know, the clinical evidence that masks even help is very weak or non existent.
But he can feel important, decisive and powerful now. What is going on is now starting to become evil. I for one have seriously had enough of this nonsense.
I think that desire to be at the centre of attention, to be important, is one of the things fuelling the enthusiasm among leaders everywhere for prolonging this. Human weakness.
Celebrity culture meets local politics?
Hubris.
… and, of course, the role of City ‘Mayor’ was never determined by a democratic constitutional process. It’s another example of arbitrary executive power and execution.
And don’t forget Burnham was (and probably still is) one of the biggest advocates of ID cards, for which I will never forgive him.
At least his surname gave us a clue as to what to do with them …
The position of mayor has been identified as important to the globalist aims. City regions taking over from nation states. Burnam is working in that realm. It’s more sinister than an ego taking hold of a city.
Mark Windows for more and better explanation.
Ending meaningful life is what they want to do
Even when you understand the immense solid front of propaganda, it is indeed amazing how many are immune to the blindingly obvious wrongness of the establishment narrative.
As you say Julian – it’s really not difficult to unpack the facts. I do have some experience of medical statistics, but I am essentially using very basic research, mathematical, statistical and general logical thinking skills and observation to pick out the *real* narrative – whilst a bevvy of PhD’s, Professorships and O.B.N credits seem unable to rise to that level. Some Epidemiologists, Virologists and Public Health specialists have done the credibility of their areas no favours at all by betraying such unbalanced – and sheer crap – scientific skills.
Above all, it’s quite easy to see that it’s the band of contrarians who have been shown to be correct – time after time after time – as data comes in.
And yet ….
You don’t need to have a degree in physics to grasp that masks simply cannot work, just accept math 101, or that they can’t make any difference as per probability calculation 101.
And yet….
As ridiculous as any lockdown is, it is partly the people living there that are contributing to this. When the fuck are these halfwits gonna realise that they need to stop getting tested.
How I wish I were a billionaire right now. I don’t know what the budget was for the Brexit campaign, but a billionaire could have funded it. Think what a similar campaign might achieve on this topic. Anyone know any sceptic billionaires? Kirstie Alley seems like a sceptic from some of her tweets, but she’s not rich enough.
I bet Bernie Ecclestone is a sceptic. There is no way he’d have the whole F1 paddock masked up like zombies if he was still running it.
And the drivers – some of them – wouldn’t be ‘giving it the knee’ either.
No he wouldn’t allow that at all and I think he’d allow fans too.
It’s utterly ridiculous that the drivers have to wear masks. Thing is everybody gets tested there every day on a race weekend. If they are “positive” they aren’t allowed in the paddock. So why the fuck is everybody masked up. That’s what having Americans in charge will do I suppose.
i just caught a bit of a US baseball match this evening … and saw a New York Mets batter hit the ball and run to first base wearing a mask under his chin. i couldnt be bothered to think of the logic being applied there,
I saw a bit of the nba the other day. One of the coaches had a mask on whilst sitting on the bench nowhere near anybody, but when he needed to talk to any of his players or the refs he took it off. So no mask when you are right next to somebody talking to them. Mask on when you are sitting on your own.
Absurd. I watched a Stanley Cup Hockey match last night. Empty seats but canned cheering when the home team scored a goal. And way above, up near the rafters, the organist played a cheery tune.
He may well be though I have not seen any definite sceptic pronouncement from him.
The richest declared sceptic I can think of is Luke Johnson, net worth £220M. I wonder if he’d be prepared to fund an opposition movement?
Never. I just saw a woke NHS advert telling all sheeple to get tested. So they’ll be queueing up outside the testing centres tomorrow.
Yep. Two of their favourite things. Queuing and testing. Tossers
The best comment in the article is the oblique comment that hospital admissions are not going up.
This must be the first illness in history for which we have systematically tested people with zero symptoms, described those as “cases” and then decided to quarantine whole cities based on that. It is definitely innovative.
The quote from Katrina Stephens is shocking. I do wonder what on earth a director of public health for Oldham even does in “normal” times.
This is so misguided. The virus will do what it does and it will go away just because we choose to hide. Do people like her really think that we should operate like this for the next decade?
“Not” go away because we choose to hide…..
Funny thing is, when people wake up, they’ll be looking for someone to blame other than themselves. Invest in popcorn, it’s going to be entertaining.
Invest in scaffolding and rope that’ll be even more fun
That’s more like it!
Draws a large publicly-funded salary and spreads the gospel according to Common Purpose ?
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh ! The fuckers have an ‘Association’ –
Association of Directors of Public Health (ADPH)
Excuse my language, but I hope the people of Oldham tell their council to fuck right off.
Have a look at his twatter thing. It’s like Life Of Brian: “How should we fuck off, oh lord?”
The glamorous Ms Stephens addresses her subjects –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg2-4BB40_8
Oh dear!
No apologies for gross language.
Nice to see Allister (not Alastair by the way) Heath’s first two paragraphs posted here. I sent these to my MP first thing this morning – with a suggestion to read the full article and, especially, the utterly damning Top Comments!
I don’t expect any response of course – but the odd slap in the face for MPs is essential if we are ever to achieve anything!
True.
MPs and MSM journos must first sense that the ship they were on is sinking, and that they need to jump off it in oder to stay afloat henceforth.
Interestingly, an older study is being referred to again in some circles, as to where it is sufficient that just a bit more than 10% of the population have to start to vigorously disagree with the mainstream opinion to bring about a sea change or reversal of that opinion.
Which is why I will definetely be in Berlin on 29.8.!
Could always rely on McAfee to stick it to the state: https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/1293900305818701826
Someone retweet this @ Dolan
More new problems for St Jacinda
“The Covid risk has extended to Auckland’s North Shore after a primary school student tested positive, sending their school into lockdown.
Two Noel Leeming stores on the North Shore have also been told someone who tested positive had visited over the weekend.
A further two schools in Māngere East have confirmed cases of the virus, as does Auckland’s Manukau Institute of Technology.
It is unclear if the cases are linked to the 17 confirmed cases of community transmission or new ones.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12356436
Eradication was and is always only a fool’s strategy.
It was and is against history, nature, experience, what’s necessary for humans immune system and long term survival and it was and is completely dependent upon the uncovered cheque of a 100% effective vaccine being bankable soon.
No one cognizant of all this and/or of
Bayes would have ever attempted it.
Is that the Manuka Honey Institute of Technology? What about bees as the vector? Birds?
I wonder if you can lay bets on the NZ deaths, I’d say about 4K on a population around 10% of UK?
Pop’s a fair bit less than 10% of UK’s, and they probably won’t stuff up protecting their elderly and vulnerable like we did. I’d go for 1000 deaths if it gets going properly. What’s the stake?
Ha ha, I might have to look at their age profile first…
If they go for HCQ trifecta pills as a prophylactic and follow the protocols they could get death rates down to f*** all.
Depends if they are more interested saving lives or bullying the peeps.
Ha ha, I might have to look at their age profile first…
If the stakes are high enough, demographics too. I don’t know if maoris are inherently more vulnerable (I suppose nobody does, yet), but they do tend to the hefty side…
I’ve not been taking much notice of the stupid and confusing limits on how many households can meet in a tent on a Tuesday, or alternatively in a shed on a Friday. But I’ve just had a look because a friend was insisting that we can’t meet in multi-household groups even outside. But the regs seem to imply that we can have as many as 30 people inside a house but only 6 people from two households can meet outdoors? Or have I got that wrong? If not, it’s nonsensical!
Not sure even Wankock would know the details if pressed.
Also this part is disgusting:
At this time, we still advise that people from different households avoid close contact so childcare should only be provided if it is possible to socially distance from your grandchildren.
Socially distance from your grandchildren?? There are no words.
Evil
All of it is disgusting
Anybody who follows that ‘advice’ should be sectioned.
I wonder whether there is a name attached to that piece of advice …
Who gives a f.k? We’ve a circle of family, friends an neighbours who have treated the whole thing with disdain ever since the peak did what peaks do and vanished.
In the end, spreading obvious contempt and ridicule may be a useful weapon.
Sadly lots of people I know give many f*ks, my BIL for example is refusing to see us next weekend because he’s staying with his parents and if we turned up, there would be three households which is “against the law”. And lots of the social groups my home-educated daughter used to attend will not start up until the law changes. I know a few dissenters, but distressingly few.
Yes – I do know, and I realise that my gung-ho mock question was an expression of our (relatively) fortunate situation. It doesn’t alter the generally depressing framework, and you are absolutely right that beyond the simple social mixing, there is a vast range of things that are simply not happening.
The degree of ‘I’m only following orders’ is incredibly depressing.
‘You gotta go where you want to go
Do what you want to do
With whoever you want to do it with’
Apart from the areas that are on the Covid naughty step, My understanding is that the Police will only act on gatherings of over 30 people, other than that keep rocking in the free world, I hope you have a good meet-up.
That’s the problem, the meet up won’t happen because this friend and many others won’t go against the guidance/law.
Let’s face it – it’s not ‘the law’ in any known sense. It’s a way of getting round proper law.
You’re just California Dreamin …
The idiotic legislation says gatherings of 30 are permitted inside your house and outside. The even more pointless guidelines still says only 6 people outside I believe. It’s all fucking drivel and should be disregarded by everybody.
5.—(1) During the emergency period, unless paragraph (3) applies, no person may participate in a gathering which—
(a)consists of more than thirty persons, and
(b)takes place—
(i)in a private dwelling, including a houseboat,
(ii)on a vessel, other than a houseboat or a vessel used for public transport, or
(iii)on land which satisfies the condition in paragraph (2).
So is the 30 in your house/garden a legal thing, but the 6 outside only guidance?
I just don’t get it. Don’t give a fig myself, but when others are refusing to break either laws or rules (interchangeable in their minds) then there’s nothing I can do.
Yep. That’s correct. 30 is in the legislation for the places that aren’t currently in “lockdown” in this country. Not sure what it legally is for those places.
That 6 is the guidance is from when it was 6 in the law and they just couldn’t be bothered to update it.
Give you one example from the Naughty North West. Well, Greater Manchester, actually, but I’ve never lived there, I live in Lancashire.
Met up with the brother in law the other day, for a pint and a bite on his birthday. Now that’s not allowed, according to the ‘guidance’ – we mustn’t ‘socialise’. Nor can he come to our house, not for five minutes. BUT!! He’s a retired joiner, and if he comes to our house to “do work” that’s fine! He can come every bloody day for two weeks as a ‘workman’. And that is the state of the law in this country.
Fuck em.
It’s absolutely fucking ridiculous isn’t it. Wasn’t there some bullshit at one point that you could only meet one person from another household outside?? What the fuck was that all about. I can’t believe anybody followed any of the rules.
Yes. My cleaner can come – with her her son in tow – but I can’t see my own son or my granddaughters. Madness!
That’s right, according to the rules, Cheez. I don’t think for a minute that you would break them.
No idea, do what you want. If your mates don’t want to join in, sod them. They are crap mates. You can meet who you like.
Here’s a 3 part video of Wancock being interviewed, in which he repeatedly shows that he doesn’t understand his own “Rules”:
https://twitter.com/Dr_Drekkle/status/1290558761443168256
Mutt Poppycock!
What a prat.
Hypochondria, the new blockbuster film from the National Health Service, Public Health England and their many Quangos. Over 30 years in the making. This year’s Academy Award frontrunner for best picture and best role by a supporting actress- PM Boris Johnson’s significant other. The Guardian called it a masterpiece of ,,, special effects. Coming soon to a theatre or drive-in near you.
A ‘Must See’.
Literally.
Sadly.
I want to scream. Just been out to a lovely country pub which used to be our local before we lived abroad. Normally we have a pleasant chat with a group of folks whom we’ve got to know over the years-we have different politics, different views on Brexit etc but a love of the same football team so politics don’t matter.
We went to chat with them after our meal and there was a chap there we didn’t recognise. Talk got onto Covid and our “quarantine”. We expressed the opinion that the whole thing had been a shambles. He vehemently disagreed and thought that Boris has done a really good job and had certainly helped out his business.
We quoted all sorts of facts and figures, told him about the useless tests, the numbers, average age of death, how many more will die because of lockdown etc. He just wasn’t having any. His mother was eighty and he was glad that she had followed all the rules AND he knew two people who had died who were nowhere near eighty.
The sad thing was that his very limited personal experience had coloured his entire view of what had happened. I really do despair.
Can I scream now?
Help yourself.
“Boris has done a really good job” should not be a phrase than anybody sane utters
Tis a phrase often found BTL in the Telegraph.
Welcome to the club.
On the bright side, I had a good conversation with my barber today, and he agreed with me that this is a terribly mismanaged scam.
But then, as an Iranian Kurd, he has seen worse, and as such a much better BS detector than 99% of the people currently alive.
Yeah, experience counts for a lot. Reading about it or seeing it on the news is not the same as really experiencing it firsthand.
Which team ?
Port Vale!
You have to ask when this lunacy is going to stop. I’ve copied a link to a 2014 NHS article that confirms that 77% of people with flu are asymptomatic.
https://www.nhs.uk/news/medical-practice/three-quarters-of-people-with-flu-have-no-symptoms/
So why are two viruses that equally kill the old and frail treated so differently? Flu victims are running at 3 to 4 times Covid victims? Why are we still in lockdown?
Flu also kills very young children, including toddlers and babies. Thank God we’ve had none of that with Covid. But again, it begs the question: Why are we will in lockdown?
Because it’s a scam and they’re using C19 as a cover
Help, I might need therapy, I am supposed to be a free thinking , rocking in the free world, new man and yet at the moment the only politicians who seem to have the bottle to stand up for sanity seem to be Trump and Bolsonaro!
We seem to be governed by a bunch of pusillanimous, cowering, scaredy cats, The Government said it wanted to; flatten the curve, save the NHS and save lives, well job done, hurrah, now time for the Government to pull out, we no longer need Government involved with Covid. We have nothing to fear but fear itself, time for Government to run the country and let the people take responsibility for sorting out the tail end of the virus nonsense.
& Lukashenko. Guy really has not received the credit he deserves.
Interesting how the BBC is in full attack dog mode on Lukashenko now.
They must have received orders to force him to comply with muzzles and paranoia.
Funnily enough they’ve got a lower death rate than here as well.
They (BBC/CIA/WEF/WHO) seem to be staging a ‘colour’ revolution, even to the extent of importing people from the Maidan in Kyiv.
Wankock used the slogan protect the NHS at the beginning of this week. If that’s their priority we’re stuffed!
‘Protect’ = lock it up till it withers and dies, like the rest of the population
That’s really interesting Mike and something I would guess that most of us didn’t realise. So Covid is no different in that respect to flu in that a similar proportion are asymptomatic? By the way did you notice that some of the researchers came from Imperial College London?
Some of us discussed this last night, can’t remember who posted it. With say 20% getting infected, 80% of those are asymptomatic, so 4% of population (60M) get symptoms, in UK means 2.4M with symptoms. Death rate say 2%=48K deaths. Nearly there.
Maybe on the Pareto principle?
‘Some cases of super-spreading conform to the 20/80 rule, where approximately 20% of infected individuals are responsible for 80% of transmissions, although super-spreading can still be said to occur when super-spreaders account for a higher or lower percentage of transmissions. In epidemics with super-spreading, the majority of individuals infect relatively few secondary contacts.’
Because people aren’t allowed to die until there is a vaccine. Just like flu.
Remember that we were all questioning the survey that said 96% of people were wearing a mask outside the home? Well I tracked down the actual survey reported on the ONS website and this is what it says:
“This section includes some headline results from Wave 20 of the Opinions and Lifestyle Survey (OPN) covering the period 5 to 9 August 2020. The full results will be published in Coronavirus and the social impacts on Great Britain on 14 August 2020.
Figure 3 shows that the proportion of adults wearing a face covering in the previous week at some point when leaving the home remained at 96% for the second consecutive week. This follows an increasing trend after face coverings became mandatory on public transport in England on 15 June, in Scotland on 22 June, and in Wales on 27 July. Face coverings became mandatory in shops and other enclosed spaces in Scotland on 10 July, and in England on 24 July.
Further breakdowns, such as the situations when a face covering was worn (for example while shopping) and by the countries of Great Britain, will be available in Coronavirus and the social impacts on Great Britain published on 14 August 2020.”
Those little words “at some point” were left out of the MSM reports!
Source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronavirustheukeconomyandsocietyfasterindicators/13august2020#social-impacts-of-the-coronavirus-on-great-britain
It’s called lying by omission. Our mainstream media are now practised liars.
Wow well spotted. That’s just TERRIBLE.
Great bit of tracking! Many Thanks !
Watching 24 Hours in A and E last night, the episode featured an old lady close to death. She had lung disease. Her family were told to be careful not to make her anxious as that could worsen her condition and possibly have fatal consequences.That got me thinking…maybe there was a strong element of mass hysteria in the national Covid story. What could be more anxiety-inducing for people with lung conditions than seeing grim-faced presenters and reports on so called trusted channels like BBC, Sky and ITV telling them there was a deadly plague-like virus on the loose which could kill half a million in the UK.
It was deliberately induced mass hysteria.
With confirmed zombies, it has proved impossible to disinduce.
You had to be a fool to believe the propaganda, mind.
Most people are fools.
Yes, I believe this happened as well. A nurse who volunteered in the busiest hospital in Queens, NY used her phone to recored conversations, patient charts, etc. (all protecting the privacy of course) and what she saw was terrifying and, frankly, criminal. She also believes that the symptoms people were presenting with were absolutely as a result of fear and stress and, more often than not, these people were put on ventilators and died. She’s quite convinced many of them never had Covid. I saw the interview with her on Dr. Mercola’s site a while back if anyone is interested in her story.
A James Corbett suggestion for talking about the cognitive dissonance of industrial indemnification –
All oil manufactures have been given indemnification against all future oil spills and environmental damage the cause.
No, wait, not oil companies – pharmaceutical companies have been indemnified against all future harms they cause.
Pharmaceutical companies have NOT been indemnified against all future harms they cause:.https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/5/10-081901/en/
They have. Astra Zenecaare on recent record explaining it. It widely known to extist with government having standarised amounts they pay out £120,000 in uk for a serious harm or death.
Interesting to compare Faeroes Islands and New Zealand. Both isolated islands antipodes. Both with excellent health systems. Both were affected first wave in April but then both free from community transmission for almost 3 months. Then suddenly both having community outbreaks almost simultaneously.
Faeroes islands 45 000 inhabitants NZ 100 times more. Faeroes Islands outbreak now is related to Russian sailors infected a few locals and then a big outbreak in the indigenous population related to a big national annual feast. The Faeroes islands PM has the following problem.
The annual feast was allowed by him as there were just a few cases quarantined at that time. He thought it would be safe. He has now 114 active cases 0.2% of the population and 1000 persons in home quarantine (no camps as in NZ) that is 2% of the population. No hospitalizations so far and 35% are 20-30 years old and mostly non retirement age.
Think about St Jessica with an outbreak where she was personally responsible for, had 11000 active cases,100.000 persons in quarantine. What does the Faeroes Islands PM do?
He is opening all schools in the Islands next Tuesday 7000 pupils. Some arrangements of school class size, testing all teachers, parents to drop off children at certain places but no facemasks for children or ridiculous rings as in Scotland. The Faroe Authorities taking a decision to mitigate but not lockdown and trying to survive economically by living with the reality they cannot keep the virus out. Reading some fragments from their press conferences show remarkable pragmatic and realistic persons in charge. Replacing the SAGE team with them would improve things directly.
You need political courage to do this in a small community where many people are related. They have problems with a few islands with very old people where they don’t want the virus to appear.
He is doing several mitigation measures but not economically destroying things. Sometimes in public health you have to do things in order to seem to do things for the public but at the same time not destroying the society. The authorities have realized that there is no way of stopping this virus and herd immunity is the only thing to stop it. They are now fine tuning the response for this purpose although perhaps not explicitly stating that.
Boris Johnson, Jessica Ahern or Prime Minister Bárður á Steig Nielsen? For me the choice is obvious.
Carl Vernon on form here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp0X5gRXi34
I see the collective noun for “experts” appears to be a “panel”. Based on what we’ve seen and heard of these people I suggest a better one would be a “shithole of experts” (other suggestions welcome).
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/13/lifting-coronavirus-restrictions-too-early-would-be-a-disaster
There’s no paywall here (how could The Guardian ever charge for the detritus it publishes), but I’ll draw attention to this statement:
The group said targeted government support for businesses and workers would be needed as the economy restructures to accommodate physical distancing requirements, smoothing the transition to a “new normal” in which coronavirus remains a risk without a lasting vaccine.
So there you have it. These “experts” want to keep the hysteria and paranoia going indefinitely.
I prefer a shag sack of experts…
A delusion of
A mutual admiration of
An arrogance of
A shitshower of experts.
Daily Mail stirring the pot https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8624327/Face-coverings-lower-Covid-19-death-rate-5-effect-doubles-medical-masks.html . Telling bit is “The authors found the best combination was prioritising the elderly and infectious cases. This reduced deaths more than random mask-wearing in the public.” So headline doesn’t match article.
“He and Hsiao-Han Chang, of the National Tsing Hua University in Taiwan, used mathematical modelling to examine the impact of face mask use among the general population during a coronavirus outbreak.”
Mathematical modelling – so extreme bullshit then.
You are all wrong and this Forbes article tells you why:
You Must Not ‘Do Your Own Research’ When It Comes To Science
https://archive.is/uWkeA
“Research both sides and make up your own mind.” It’s simple, straightforward, common sense advice. And when it comes to issues like vaccinations, climate change, and the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, it can be dangerous, destructive, and even deadly.
The article continues:
The reason is simple: most of us, even those of us who are scientists ourselves, lack the relevant scientific expertise needed to adequately evaluate that research on our own. In our own fields, we are aware of the full suite of data, of how those puzzle pieces fit together, and what the frontiers of our knowledge is. When laypersons espouse opinions on those matters, it’s immediately clear to us where the gaps in their understanding are and where they’ve misled themselves in their reasoning. When they take up the arguments of a contrarian scientist, we recognize what they’re overlooking, misinterpreting, or omitting. Unless we start valuing the actual expertise that legitimate experts have spent lifetimes developing, “doing our own research” could lead to immeasurable, unnecessary suffering.
It continues on the link above.
—-
Quite an article. My natural attitude is to evaluate expert opinions myself. I often find they are nothing special. Often I find expert opinions to be extraordinarily dangerous.
Can we submit this material for the “Most patronising article in the history of the universe” award?
It’s a winner isn’t it!
Especially where those ‘expert opinions’ are influenced by hubris at being an ‘expert’, keeping a job, conflicts of interest or massive funding by certain foundations.
My background was in science, I know there’s a lot I don’t know, but by having an inquiring mind and hopefully being free of outside bias (I’m not discounting personal biases, we all have those, but by having an awareness of it one can try to be as objective as one can) because my job doesn’t depend on keeping with a narrative, my conclusions are hopefully ‘cleaner’.
“doing our own research” could lead to immeasurable, unnecessary suffering.
So those “experts” in SAGE were obviously not advising but doing their own research, considering the immeasurable, unnecessary suffering they’ve caused.
So if even scientists lack the expertise needed to evaulate the research, where does The Science come from?
LOL! How about this statement (my emphasis):
But that requires a kind of transformation within yourself. It means that you need to be humble, and admit that you, yourself, lack the necessary expertise to evaluate the science before you. It means that you need to be brave enough to turn to the consensus of scientific experts and ask, legitimately, what we know at the present stage. And it means you need to be open-minded enough to understand that your preconceptions are quite likely to be wrong in some, many, or possibly even all ways. If we listen to the science, we can attempt to take the best path possible forward through the greatest challenges facing modern society. We can choose to ignore it, but if we do, the consequences will only increase in severity.
Yes, let’s turn to those noted experts at ICL, especially Professor Ferguson, who is never wrong.
Oh a fine selection Tenchy Sir!
I’m sorry – that’s creepy. That’s religious indoctrination
If we listen to the science, we can attempt to take the best path possible forward through the greatest challenges facing modern society. We can choose to ignore it, but if we do, the consequences will only increase in severity.
We obviously got the through the looking glass version.
Couple of weeks old. I remember swearing at Ethan Siegel at the time, can’t be arsed to do so again. Well, ok then, – Twat !
New to me and please it’s helped you pass another happy moment.
Prof Pantsdown and SAGE made sure we will never ever believe ‘scientists’ again
Can anyone tell me why football clubs haven’t gone bust? Given their dependence on gate receipts. Just asking. Don’t understand nada
Footballers graciously took a hit in their pockets. Handycock didn’t. The now vanished P Morgan established that back in the days of daily rage for the nations breakfast. Nudge on toast this morning…
Morgans beloved arsenal continue to pay Ozil £200000+ per week for sitting on his backside (not much of a hit there) yet make 50+ non playing staff redundant …..
Invincible nastiness.
Without the non playing staff these hyperinflates aren’t going to have a pitch to spit on. The lower leagues look so precarious to a casual observer, good luck to them.
Big clubs are not dependent on gate money.. it it tv and sponsorship and now that has started again, they are still getting that money,
However some of the championship sides and those below that level are struggling . hence they stopped their seasons months ago to minimise costs. They will suffer and many will go out of business.
And as to the players, same applies..those on premiership wages are ok, those in the lower divisions who may only earn £hundreds a week are struggling
Thank you everyone
Premiership football clubs make so much money out of TV and merchandise that actual bums on seats are the icing on the cake, obviously nice but not existentially important. Lower down in the leagues, actual paying supporters are considerably more significant as a revenue source.
Other sports, especially rugby, are not in such a clever position and have had to cut their cloth, quite considerably, accordingly.
Push is coming to shove already in horse racing with trainers and owners pulling out of the sport although I cannot help wondering whether covid happens to be a convenient excuse….
Contrary to what’s said in some of the other replies, I believe most premier league football clubs are run on fairly tight margins (but not small budgets) thanks to the rather inflated pay packets of the players, which go up and up and up year on year. As such, whilst gate receipts dont make up a majority of most top clubs earnings, they still make up a sizeable portion. A lot of the biggest clubs are financed by billionaires & the others can afford to scrape by for a season without gate receipts.
Lower down the league system there will be clubs struggling, some will have asked players to take a cut, some won’t.
My club of choice, Arsenal, take £100m a season (if I recall) from gate receipts so it’s a huge huge hit to finances, they’ve got most players to take a 12.5% pay cut, laid off 55 non playing staff (needless, their wages combined is equal to one players salary for a few months) and the directors took cuts too. They’re banking on fans being allowed to return from the new year, if our moronic government (and those around the world) continue to ban mass gatherings beyond that, there will be significant disruption to clubs of all sizes. A few countries are allowing up to a few thousands fans again now (and belarus never stopped), so I’m not really sure why the UK thinks its so fucking special so as we’re STILL limited to just 30 bloody people.
3 stories in the Mail I’ve just looked at:
Northampton faces lockdown after nearly 300 workers at a sandwich factory test positive for coronavirus
Face coverings lower the Covid-19 death rate by 5%, study claims
Covid-19 is 12 times deadlier than the flu
The comments (at least the “Newest” that I’ve seen) rip these to shreds, for instance:
I don’t have a DM account to post a comment, but I have seen the actual study on “face coverings”… You’ll never guess what! It’s another idiotic “study” based on mathematical model that is divorced from reality and is contradicted by numerous Randomised Controlled Trials!
— https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17922-x
In other words: “let’s start with the (demonstrably false) premise that masks work… churn the model… Et voila—our model shows masks work!”
And from my last last link:
That would be the same Imperial College London where a certain Prof Neil Ferguson is based. I don’t think I’ll be paying much attention to this “Study”…
… and which receives massive funding from the pharmaceutical industry.
plus you-know-who!
100,000 volunteers?!
… and the finger-prick test is placed in the wrong place on the finger—do not do what is shown in that picture, you’ll get a big “ouchie!”—half way between the nail and the pad is a way less painful place! (you actually squeeze on the pad to collect the blood at the tip, but we’re getting too technical here)
Given that they’ll have no live students where did they get the supposed 100,000 volunteers from ?
WTF are supply and demand dynamics? Is that an aeronautical term?
Idiotic way of describing a change in supply and demand (cf. ‘statics’ to mean constant supply and demand, no, I’m not making it up, I’ve seen that used)—I really can’t stand papers that use complex words to mean simple things for which there are simple words. Intelligent people don’t do that, trust me, they actually want others to understand what they’re trying to tell you.
You don’t have to be a paid subscribe to have a DM account. I really recommend people posting sane comments like the one quoted. I’ve seen increasing numbers of anti-lockdown posters since I started posting about a month ago. More voices would be helpful.
5% of notalot is notalot!
And at significant psychological, social, economic and environmental cost to boot.
At this rate the entire country will be locked down by September.
The comments on the ‘deadlier than flu’ one are amazing. Some have over 1k likes!
People are getting it. I feel…..ennervated
Good Covid kickers those Mail readers.
Oh look, it’s another food processing place (sandwich factory) which will be perfect for the Covid since it’s permanently winter inside.
Meanwhile, The Madness still reigns unabated amongst our Christian leaders but there are one or two shining exceptions, especially across the Pond. Bishop Donald Degrood of Sioux Falls, South Dakota, has now reinstated what we Catholics call the Sunday Precept: “you must attend Mass on Sundays”. There are of course exemptions for those who are “at risk” and also for the Terminally Terrified – who are nonetheless advised that they should “discern whether or not their fear is morally justifiable or inordinate”. Good for him.
We had a romantic notion of loading up our touring bikes and pedalling off to Wales next week. When I started looking for sites and friendly pubs (hmm) it hit me that I had forgotten that between the High Peak and Wales is my home county, Cheshire, where there’s a big factory producing all the Karens.
I wasted about 2 hours online trying to find a campsite which was a) open, b) with toilets open, c) that takes tents. Even a favourite campsite near Llangollen, rough and ready normally, home to biker rallies etc is closed to tents. Anyway I finally found one at Marbury, near Whitchurch, which would serve as our first stop (quite a long cycle) and then I looked at the local pub, THE SWAN AT MARBURY – I name and shame you!
Under a tab, ‘Safely does it’, I found this gem sorry it’s so long but it’s all so brilliant, I just had to share it. The emphasis is mine:
[PART 1
I know I’m biased but I really do think pubs are important. Closeness with your family and friends and eating and drinking together is part of the fabric of life and keeps our souls nourished and in equilibrium. We need contact with other human beings, especially our loved ones. Or at least most of them. (Beer’s good too)
So here we go – an essential service resumes. We’ve tried to keep it as much like the Swan of yore but we have to follow Boris’ rules as well as trying to manage our little business through the financial quagmire. I think the key to this is common sense. The country has been hit by a deadly virus and even though it’s not as bad as we first thought it could flair up again so we need to be sensible and take precautions. We have carefully read HMG’s guidelines, which are actually down to earth and sensible, and this is what we have decided to do:
Changes to opening hours
This is actually not to do with physical safety but with financial safety. Whilst we ease ourselves back into trading we will only be opening Tuesday to Sunday. Food will be available all day as usual, from 12-9pm Tuesday to Saturday and 12-8.30pm on Sundays. We will be taking part in the Eat Out to Help Out scheme on Tuesdays and Wednesdays from Tuesday 4th August.
Bookings
It’s best to book your table in advance, preferably through our website but we can also take bookings by telephone. We ask you to follow the household Government guidance about groups of no more than 6 people from any household, or no more than 10 people from two households. We won’t be able to check who’s who so we trust you to do the right thing.
Getting into the pub and social distancing
In these times it’s not wise to be close to each other. A virus will find it harder to find you if you’re over there.
We ask you to use the proper front door when you arrive at the pub, that is the one on the road. We know many of you have never used it before because it’s round the corner from the patio door but it’s actually a nicer entrance so you might well take to it. If you need a step-free entrance ignore that guidance and use the patio as both entrance and exit.
Once through the door, someone from the staff will take your drink order and help you to find your table. We have made sure that all our tables are safely distanced.
Government Track and Trace scheme
Boris has asked us to get details of our customers in case there’s another outbreak locally. This seems sensible to me so we will keep the booking contact as the main contact and trust that you can supply HMG with all other people in your party if needed. We won’t keep this information for longer than we are asked to by the authorities and we won’t give it to anyone else. We respect our customers privacy and will not exploit the situation.
Cleaning
Our housekeeping team do a really good job of keeping the pub clean even in normal times. I’m always proud of how the place looks. During these Covid days we have extended the cleaning hours to allow common contact surfaces to be cleaned every day. In addition to this we will have cleaning throughout the day. It can’t be perfect, viruses are tenacious little devils, but it all helps. CONTD
Hyperloquacity precipitates cerebral malfunctioning.
Only too true!
From the Department of Obfuscatory Verbiage
Drink. Feck. Arse. Girls.
it’s not wise to be close to each other. A virus will find it harder to find you if you’re over there.
Best laugh I’ve had all day!
Lovely image.
Covid days?? They’re really caught up in it all, aren’t they?
Two pages of rules just to go to the pub? No thanks.
Precisely what we said. We’ve gone back to the drawing board with this trip.
Good luck with the trip, if you can find a way to do it. Since I would have to use the trains to go anywhere, I’ve given up any thought of travelling this year. I’ve got my exemption card, but it’s still dire to use public transport. And then the queuing and the booking and everything else coronaphobic just puts me off the whole thing. So it’s the allotment every day. No boost for the economy, but a boost for my (fading) sanity.
Our MP, James Sutherland, was on Talk Radio this afternoon. Although clearly supporting Boris he strongly supports just getting back to normal and accepting the virus. He is our new MP after the last election, previously we had Andrew Mackay and Philip Lee, you will remember both of those so maybe it is third time lucky! Not had reason to contact him and it does seem he is probably a sceptic but reluctant to declare it formally. He is currently holidaying in France so guess just a little concerned at being quarantined.
“Although clearly supporting Boris …”
The mark of a dickhead – whatever else.
“Although clearly supporting Boris he strongly supports just getting back to normal and accepting the virus.” Hard to see how those two positions are compatible.
THE SWAN AT MARBURY, PART 2. (Run by a pair of cartoon characters, see bottom.) The quote from Henry V just slays me:
Table Service
Our staff will do their best to keep a safe distance where possible during service. Cutlery will be placed in tankards on your table, and will be replaced after each sitting. Alongside this, salt and pepper shakers and table surfaces will be sanitised regularly through the day. We will be looking after you at your table, so please do not go up to the bar to order your food or drink. Individual use menus will be found on the table, then recycled and replaced after each sitting. Every menu will have a QR code so you can scan it and read the menu on your own device if you so choose.
Bar Service
The principle is that we’re going to have table service so you don’t need to go to the bar. Tom and I are devastated that we can’t have people huddled around the counter, it’s so lovely to have all those people chatting with one another. After all this is a large part of what a pub is about. However we must be sensible so we’ll be discouraging this but have instead devoted the whole of the far end of the pub’s tables for drinkers.
Patio
We’ve never booked outside tables and we won’t be doing so now but you are more than welcome to sit outside where there will be full table service. Again, please resist visiting the bar and instead wait for a member of staff to come over and take your order, whether it be drinks or food.
Toilets
We have thought about having some sort of system for marshalling people using the loos but have decided that we should trust you to keep social distancing in the toilets, and toilet corridor. It should be fairly easy as there’s plenty of room. We will be cleaning the high touch points at least every hour.
Payment
Pay by contactless card if you can or perhaps one of those smart phone apps. We will take cash if we need to.
Feeling unwell
If you feel unwell, or are in contact with someone showing COVID symptoms, please give us a call and we will happily rearrange your reservation for another day when you are feeling better.
and finally
Let me remind you of the end of Henry V’s rousing speech before the battle of Agincourt. You know the one, “Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more ….” , that finishes:
“I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game’s afoot:
Follow your spirit; and upon this charge,
Cry ‘God for Harry! England! and Saint George!’ “
It’s probably a bit over the top for the village pub reopening but we are both very excited to be back.
Cheers, Tom and Jerry.
‘Even so quickly may one catch the plague.’
Sounds like they are doing their best in trying circumstances.
What, writing all that drivel?
Whist in hospital today (a place, before anybody moans about the NHS, where I have never had anything but superb care), I came across the massive absurdities imposed on all parts of our lives – particularly at this non-epidemic stage of a mild virus.
I have a variety of pretty serious health issues that need fairly regular attention. As a result of the proper functioning of he NHS, I have been kept alive and in reasonable health for six critical years.
But now – as those proper services are starting up again, these serious issues are dwarfed by stupid provisions to deal with the fictional threat of Covid. Yesterday I had a review of a scan that was three months late.
I say all this as one of those rare individuals who might actually turn up my toes with an infection. But nothing justifies :
Of course – none of this is new stuff – just quotidian fuming. But, as Victor Meldrew would say …………
Prefer bridge myself, but whist is ok …
Its like the establishments have lost their minds although most are run by Common Purpose grads, so it does explain a lot.
Hope all goes well RickH, Viva la Revolucion,
‘Into the Dungeon with evil men
The people has risen we’re free again
Come out of the closet
Come out of the hole
Come out of the woodwork
Come into the fold
Rebels and fighters, a license to kill
Unite with the bandits down from the hills
Open your windows
Open your doors
Open your minds…’
Etc.
https://youtu.be/vvWEKhGU6X4
Showing my age, maybe Rick remembers it too.
Liked it Sylvie! A bit O/T, I still have original copy of this. The title certainly describes the politicians et al!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=35&v=CHssoYSb1G0&feature=emb_logo
DavidC
The one way system in one of are hospitals is so bizarre that wheelchair users are exempted.
Toby doesn’t think this blog is having any impact on public opinion. This would be difficult to assess, but a look at the Sun comments tonight below the report about Northampton revealed they were almost all cynical about the virus and sceptical about the government’s policies.
I wonder if anyone might think again if they were to watch:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/HzWis8DdHL3H/
I think a lot of people are thinking again anyway.
A lot more than before. They’re starting to smell a rat, they’re starting to wake up.
“You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time [Karen-types spring to mind here], but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.”
What would increase this blog’s impact on public opinion?
More swearing?
Kitten pictures
Naked ladies
Football results
Pictures of cars
Puppies
Make up tips
ummmmmm I am really pushing the envelope here
Joining the Volkswagen class action if pop up ads are anything to go by.
That isn’t its purpose. It’s for us, to strengthen, console and encourage us.
Much the same in the Mail on any the Covid/lockdown articles.
Yes, and the best thing to do is to get in and comment freely on those articles. I do my best to participate every day.
Behind the paywall but Fraser Nelson’s Telegraph article is a must read even if it is highly likely to send your blood pressure through the stratosphere.
France, Malta and Netherlands added to quarantine list.
Family still there. Oh b***r
0400 on Saturday is the deadline. I am currently 4395th in queue for Eurotunnel website to try and get clients back.
Dieppe-Newhaven it is then …
If someone swims The Channel will they have to quarantine?
seems to be plenty of spaces available in small inflatables
Have they taken Sweden off or are they still sulking?
Still sulking
Has anybody been busted for breaking travel quarantine?
One person, I think.
The guy in Guernsey ?
That’ll teach the Dutch to let schools reopen for full month with no problems.
Quote
It’s a reversion to Europe of the 1700s. Peasants stay in their own county unless they have permission from a nobleman to travel.Governments must get a boner just thinking about wielding so much power.
France proving the effectiveness of masks
I bet Johnson’s response to the collapse in UK GDP will be….mandatory masks 24/7 everywhere, including in the home. He can set up a new Ministry of Masks (MoM) and solve unemployment with a new 5 million strong Mask Task Force (MTF) to ensure total compliance.
“What a splendid idea Fwah fwawaaah, British Mask For British People!”
The economy will be saved by masks as a new chain of megastores will spread across the land: MASKWORLD.
And we can all take vacations on Mask Island, next to the Garbage Patch in the Pacific Ocean.
How dare you!
Is there a recognised hierarchy of “my mask is more stylish/compliant/expensive than theirs”?
God save our gracious Mask!
Long live our noble Mask!
God save The Mask!
Send it victorious
Happy and glorious
Long to reign over us
God save the Mask!
lol, I suggest you disengage from all this for a bit, do some gardening
Great idea, although I don’t have a garden. If I did however, would I be required to wear a mask?
Not yet.
I nailed a mask on my apartment door just the other day. Now I’m fully protected indoors.
They tried that in Spain early in their lockdown, recruited tens of thousands from the unemployed to become Covid Compliance Marshals, I expect most traffic wardens would love that job.
AVG Age of “Death by Covid”:
Austria 80+ years Source EMS;
Canada 86 years Source HCSC;
England 80+ years Source NHS;
France 84 years Source SPF;
Germany 82 years Source RKI;
Italy 81 years Source ISS;
Spain 82 years Source MDS;
Switzerland 84 years Source BAG;
United States 80 years Source CDC;
Sweden 86 years Source FOHM
A “global pandemic” is certainly not defined by age of deaths EXCEEDING the normal lifespan with no young healthy people are affected.
I will offer up just a few broad comments and put details to them if you wish:
1) There is no excess death toll due to virus- that death toll is due to policy shifts and attribution to “Covid” is patently false when not outright administrative corruption by health officials;
2) Above “excess” death toll is an artifact of nursing home mismanagement- 60% of “covid deaths” from nursing homes + or – 3%- once that is taken away we have near record numbers of low mortality rates in country after country;
3) The average age of “Covid deaths” worldwide EXCEEDS the normal lifespan of citizens of those countries- that being 81 years old with on average 2.5 comorbidities- think about that;
4) Average number of weeks of life lost due to “Covid” is a mere 1-3 weeks and that’s without consideration of having died “from” or “with”;
5) PCR tests used to determine “cases” are a diagnostic fraud- inventor of PCR test, Kary Mullis, asserted PCR tests were not designed for diagnostic purposes;
6) Cases which are determined by flawed PCR tests are purposefully juiced up in numerous ways- want details?- this is not simply more tests=more cases we are talking medical and institutional fraud- why did the CDC change years old policies on March 24th, April 14th and June 13th with each change designed to increase number of “positive” test cases;
7) The WHO changed it’s definition of pandemic in 2009. Why? What preceded this in 2007?
8) In the annals of pandemic since the year 350 this one ranks 23rd out of 24 in overall deaths as a percentage of population worldwide. The swine flu pandemic of 2009 (coincidentally the same year the WHO changed that definition) ranks 24th. These two pandemics are several hundred (thousand in some cases) % points lower in mortality rates than past pandemics- how did they even make the cut;
9) The “deaths from Covid” are from a specific demographic- pandemics are noted to impact mortality rates of a broad demographic. That demographic is not merely the elderly but the most fragile of the fragile of the elderly who could die from any infection in their condition;
10) “Deaths from Covid” are from specific locations. Pandemics are defined (supposed to be) by cutting across a wide swath of geographic regions. This pandemic has the habit of only impacting densely populated areas and more specifically the elderly in those areas and more specifically nursing homes- in the US for example if we eliminated just the deaths from NJ and NYC nursing homes we would not be having this conversation. In Italy same would be said if we eliminated deaths from elderly in Northern Italy- same elsewhere Belgium, spain, Canada, Sweden etc.;
The above 10 points are the short list.
If people would stop wearing masks and stay off the internet and cable news for a week no one would know there was such a virus in existence.
You can’t stop living the lie until you stop telling it.
Here’s the scary thing (as if there aren’t already enough scary things!) — with so many elderly folks dying this year there’s a good chance there will be many fewer deaths of the elderly this upcoming flu season. This happens regularly when a particularly bad season is followed by a milder one and, therefore, many fewer deaths (and vice versa — more deaths the year after a mild flu season as happened this year in many countries). So this coming flu season more kids and younger people will die — as is ALWAYS the case with the REGULAR flu vs. Covid — but the cabal will claim that the virus has mutated and is now killing off younger people and children! What an insidious way to keep the fear going. Hospitalizations will rise, as they always do during the winter months, but somehow collective amnesia will kick in and nobody will remember that the regular flu kills hundreds of thousands of people every year.
Hospitalisations are rising by putting people in there who don’t need to be. It’s a way of bumping up the numbers without actually lying and is why recovery rates are remarkably high these days.
I think this virus was a deliberate ploy to kill as many older people as they could. They are considered uneconomically viable. Anyone who thinks the government is a benevolent institution who actually cares for the people needs their heads examining.
Allen, regarding point 2 – I wouldn’t blame the nursing homes. I DO blame the government, IT mandated that no patients be admiitted to hospitals from nursing or care homes, IT mandated that all nursing/care home patients in hospitals be returned to the nursing/care homes, IT mandated that those nursing/care homes be locked down.
The staff, almost universally, had no knowledge of viral disease, were confronted by something unknown where they scared out of their wits and were left almost to their own devices to try and cope with it. It was murder by the government and I make no apologies for using that term. It was disgraceful, immoral and horrible.
They also badgered families into signing DNRs.
That’s an impressive and thought-provoking list. Thanks.
Indeed, how can UK still be included in the Pandemic since it’s not even Epidemic here now, if it ever was.
Live.p normally. As normally as you possibly can.
Normality is a corrosive acid eating away at the terror.
Small holes, then big holes. Keep at it.
Well, that’s my annual holiday fucked over by these utter morons masquerading as a government. I have spent the last months coping with this lunacy like everybody else and working my nuts off to keep the SME I work for afloat. Enough already. I am ashamed to have voted for Boris Johnson. Am now politically homeless. These supine spineless idiots need to be swept away.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53772735 fine for not wearing muzzle max over £3000 . What is this obsession with their wearing?
They’re just jealous of the success masks are having in Spain and France, so they are making sure that the UK is not lagging behind!
Well yes, there’s success for them to look to! It’s a terrible state this country has come to though!
Indeed, there is a correlation between how fascist a country is in enforcing muxzzle wearing and o of cases.
Clue – Sweden doesn’t see any point in them- will someone shove this down the govt cretins throat so they understand
It’s making me so fed up, its so provably pointless when such little prevalence even if they were able to actually prove their effectiveness in the first place – which they havent been able to do. And yet, everywhere keeps fucking hammering down on the bloody things.
And now hairdressers & other close contact service providers have to wear BOTH a mask AND visor for fuck sake!!!
Because both are demonstrably protective against aerosol transmission! It’s both sad and cretinous when someone sees medical personnel wear something but they never enquire as to the reason why those people are wearing it in the first place… Ironically, pre-COVID-19, the use of masks in surgical theatres was being questioned; now: masks for everyone!
IMoz,
Are you sure? I think they are useful with droplets but much less so with aerosols, where the ‘droplet’ size is very much smaller.
One of my old school mates is a retired dentist. I asked him about masks when this whole thing kicked off. His reponse was that he had to change them for every patient and that after twenty minutes or so they were usless (dampness etc). He also pointed out that they were for the benefit of the patient so that no droplets or particles were dropped onto the patient (he was a dentist so victim might be a better word! Joking aside he was an excellent dentist) and that they were of no benefit at all to him.
Violent insurrection.
Yes please, when do we start!
See if you’re in striking distance: https://www.standupx.info/
Anyone coming here and calling for violence has to be put on the watch list of agent provocateurs or Far Left/Right infiltrators. No one who loves this country will be calling for civil war to make things even worse than they already are.
But for client, in 13th Aug ‘rules’ we are ‘permitted to remove a face covering’
if required in order to receive treatment or services, for example when getting a haircut
I’ll let everyone know this is now ‘permitted’ in ‘the rules’
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own
Simple:
The funny thing about hand sanitisers is that they dry hands. What happens with dry hands? Skin cracks. What happens when skin cracks? The dermal protective layer is compromised. What happens when the dermal protective layer is compromised? You get the idea… and then it’ll be a great idea to introduce mandatory gloves
The ruling elite get a real kick out of people doing all the damage to themselves. They are laughing at us.
Heard a personal anecdote this evening about a man in the USA who went blind in one eye due to overuse of cheap hand sanitiser made in China. Amazon refunded his $100, so all’s well that ends well.
Incidentally, some hand sanitisers are found to be using methanol instead of ethanol/IPA, Canada had issued some recalls; sounds like that guy got methanol, it’s known to have happened before: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4222078/
… which will lead to fungal infections. Nice!
Yes. 2020 has been a classic for bacteria and fungi.
Yes. Always been fascinated by them. Shame about the human delusions.
+ bronchial disorders.
£3000 fines for fucks sake. I hope they don’t remove the exemptions. This is intolerable. It really is.
They’re tying themselves in knots now – brilliant – some of latest 13th Aug advice on gov uk copied and pasted (repetition theirs)
Face coverings are not required in restaurants with table service, bars, and pubs. If removing your face covering to eat or drink in an indoor premises with a café or designated seating area, then you can remove your face covering in this area only.
Face coverings are not required in restaurants with table service, bars, and pubs. If other indoor premises have a café or seating area for you to eat and drink, then you can remove your face covering in this area only. You must put a face covering back on once you leave your seating area. If removing your face covering to eat or drink in an indoor premises with a café or designated seating area, then you can remove your face covering in this area only.
Also
If necessary, the police and Transport for London (TfL) officers have enforcement powers including issuing fines of £100 (halving to £50 if paid within 14 days).
Exemptions remain the same, plus very clearly:
Exemption cards Those who have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering should not be routinely asked to give any written evidence of this, this includes exemption cards. No person needs to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about their reason for not wearing a face covering.
Some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.
This is a personal choice and is not necessary in law.
Access exemption card templates
It’s worth a read: (?!)
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own
So, basically, if you’vve got a shop, right, just pepper it with sit down tables. Spread them out evenly around the shop so there is no ‘designated seating area’. The whole place has table ‘service’.
Encourage people to browse your wares and maybe take a seat every now and again. Always have a kettle boiling. Ask everyone who sits down if they want a free cuppa. Get some people you know to always be sitting somewhere like ‘customers’, amongst the actual customers.
Bobs your uncle. No muzzles needed.
Love it! There was a place like this in Leicester… once…
That’s nuts,several paragraphs telling what we must or mustn’t do until ‘unless you don’t want to and you don’t have to say why’.
“Under current guidance, people who refuse to wear a face covering where it is required face a £100 fine, which can be reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days.
The new enforcement measures will see that penalty repeatedly doubled for subsequent offences, up to a maximum of £3,200.”
They really are determined to make people really hate them, aren’t they?
Never forget. Never forgive.
Anyone who suffers penalties from these laws is absolutely justified in punching in the face any current MP should they meet him or her, however many years down the line.
£3,300 would have made more sense. Or £6,660.
Indeed
33. Once again.
I am still not scared and not going to wear a mask
Same here, I’m convinced that I have more chance of winning £3,200 on the lottery than bumping into a police officer who will actually issue a fine like that, and I don’t even play the lottery! Just not very scary, sorry Boris!
I haven’t seen a police car since April …..
They’re all down here in Bournemouth. I see lots of them every day driving around town. Often with sirens blaring. Add the helicopters flying over all the time and it gets to be a bit much (I live a short walk from the beach).
5 or 6 uniformed Police Officers came into the local cafe a couple of days ago, stood at the takeaway counter so they should have been wearing masks but then sat down so that’s all right then.
I might have overheard “Can I borrow the mask Sarge, need to go for a leak”
“Well be sharpish lad, Frank needs to go too”.
I have almost daily (indoor – NHS building) contact with Plod. Neither they nor I mask up. They aren’t bothered.
It isn’t good enough that they aren’t bothered; they can still turn on us if they are sufficiently “butt-hurt”.
fascist state being enacted!! I thought all the sheeple were compliant with the face masks so why increase the penalty??
Boris has to go pronto – where is the opposition to this draconian measures??
Sadly
there is no viable opposition
Yes, the opposition are much worse!
It hasn’t increased. It’s been like this for ages.
I will say this to all police, pcsos and all council gestapo. “Never forget. Never forgive.” I also say to the police, we will never forget the way you behaved towards us, the citizens who pay your wages, sifting through our shopping trolleys and the like.
I don’t believe anyone will be fined so much. I will continue not wearing a mask.
There was no risk assessment done by the government in regards to masks in public places.
If police want to fine me I will make it really public and will sue the government.
Simply need to stay strong and stand by your exemption reason. Mine is ‘distress’ and that is as genuine as hell. Even seeing people wearing masks really disturbs me and I just know I can never wear one myself.
Agree
Make sure to show no one your medical records, if so exempt, until it gets to Court which won’t be anytime soon as they have 5 month lockdown backlog to deal with first.
This is getting very worrying now.
It will be what you make of it.
Nah. I’ve not, but do keep an exemption card in my wallet just in case. As do others.
My anxiety levels are sky high, but I was just fine pre covid.
This is state terrorism of the uk population.
Our MPs are complicit for not having the guts to bring this farce to an end
“State terrorism” sounds dramatic but it’s a fair summation of fact: the State has been seeking to put the population at large into a state of terror.
Seeking?They’ve done it.
Bollox. According to the guidelines, everyone is exempt if they choose to be!
However it’s clear there can sometimes be serious side effects to coronavirus infection, look at Boris, it’s clearly attacked his spine as he has become an invertebrate since!
Burnham dead yet?
Don’t we just wish
What’s happened?
He’s still breathing and spouting his GM empire buiding nonsense.
He really does need to wind his neck in.
Thinks he’s invincible, but we ‘should’ be having elections next year – really hope a strong independent will rise up and wipe this ignoramous of the map.
I’m in Bury. I despise the man.
Not suggesting this as a theme tune but it kind of sums up how I’m feeling at the moment – “I Won’t Back Down” by the late great Tom Petty
https://youtu.be/45u19Z5e3EA
Telly retuned / most non-BBC channels now out of service.
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-bill-gates-covid-vaccine/?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-businessweek&utm_medium=social&utm_content=businessweek
From a Bill Gates interview Bloomberg News
“This is an age of science, but sometimes it doesn’t feel that way. In the test tube, hydroxychloroquine looked good. On the other hand, there are lots of good therapeutic drugs coming that are proven to work without the severe side effects.”
This is a complete nonsense “severe side effects”. Just shows the fraud. This man is completely ignorant that millions of people have been taken HCQ for many years without any serious side effects for malaria and autoimmune diseases. Naturally there are a few side effects but nothing which would exclude its use as an outpatient drug for C-19 in risk groups. This man has no medical knowledge about this. The whole setup of this man as expert about virus diseases is ludicrous. He’d better stick with computer viruses.
He was rubbish with them too
He’s a psychopath. Family ties to the eugenics movement, which explains a lot.
Like father, like son.
It’s amazing how these silicon valley and speculator types who claim to be scientific rationalists are driven by demons. Their most feared demon is the Trump Devil. They will say anything, do anything, as long as they feel the Trump Devil is being beaten back. For all their many billions of net worth they are truly pathetic. I do actually believe that Gates, Zuckerberg, Soros and the rest would prefer a million kids in Africa to die than Trump should win the Presidential election.
Bill Gates is a computer virus!
No Bill, Bill…… come on. This is an age of “THE Science”. Get it right mate.
The World Is Not Enough, starring Bill Gates as Kill Gates. You can’t fault these guys for persistence and motivation. Their worldwide takeover this year has been absolutely breathtaking, one of the most spectacular coups in recorded history.
One reason Africa was not the time bomb as predicted. Used against malaria for decades.
My five year old was on hydroxychloroquine for just over a year and, aside from the horrible taste the side effects were negligible. Interesting that Gates does acknowledge that hydroxychloroquine does have a positive impact though.
It is well known across Africa, likeUK adults might know of paracetamol or some other common udeful drug. In Nigeria at least the sale of HCQ was stopped about 2013 for no reason that i’m aware of. It was liked across the population as a reliable cure for malaria.
This info was told to me by a Nigerian friend.
Since lockdown “easing” is to continue again from Saturday, does that mean Boris has given up on the Second Wave, for now at least? Will he be begging us to go back to work and spend all our money again until a few more cases sends him into another panic and we come to an emergency stop? Any bets on how long we’ve got?
I’ve just read what the new ‘easing’ is, it amounts to basically nothing, as far as I can tell – plus he’s increased the muzzle fines and increased the amount of muzzle stuff workers need to wear.
Easing? Looking glass stuff again!
He’s going to free up bouncy castles, masked only, sanitised after each use.
Fines have not increased. Same as before. Check gov uk
That’s what I thought, the fine structure hasn’t changed has it? Its’ still the same as it was before right?
Lockdown continues until 31st March 2025 according to the World Bank planning document I’ve seen circulating. Not sure if it’s legit, not been able to find the source link yet.
What? I hope that’s not real!
I first heard about it from Max Igan (The Crowhouse), and have seen it corroborated second hand from other sources. Not definitive yet. But it does jive with the BBC piece from last week about life in 2025 (“as weeks turned into months, and months turned into years”).
Wouldn’t surprise me
Considering the shitshow for unemployment heading into September I doubt he and all this will last. The wheels are starting to come off. Mask wearers are finding them impractical, uncomfortable and in the case of my OH, who wears them for her healthcare job, is allegic to certain types.
No risk assessment, no systematic assessment, just idiotic models.
The estimates are between 1 and 3 million unemployed and we have already hit over 700,000 since March.
Plus you are now being given £1000 for every employee you keep on for the months of Nov, Dec and Jan. You get the payment after Jan. The minimum salary those employees should earn is £520.
Which means you will be keeping people on just to prolong the agony.
Johnson will be put out to pasture when the time is right. For now he is serving his masters very well indeed. Sadly, absent a genuine popular rebellion, the alternatives in the current political landscape are all equally bad or even worse.
We had 4m unemployed in the 80s and we never recovered socially.
The number 6m has already been bandied about and I suspect this is conservative.
Indeed. The right to work and contribute to your society is a basic human right. The Lockdown Lunatics are taking us to a very dark place.
700,000 is just the formerly employed, there are also +/- 250,000 no longer self-employed.
Hard lockdown versus smart closure two neighbouring countries Argentina Uruguay
Compare deaths per million rolling 7-day average
https://twitter.com/ChGefaell/status/1293921630167728128/photo/1
Worth posting widely as well if somene can post the graphic:
https://www.lockdowntruth.org/post/scotland-s-second-wave
Awesome!
Latest (13th August) gov uk face covering ‘rules’ – ha ha – especially How to Wear a Face Covering (“if a thing’s worth doing it’s worth doing well…..”.) ha ha… as if…
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own
Nice touch:
“Emerging evidence suggests that the risk of transmission may be reduced by using thicker fabrics or multiple layers. However, the face covering should still be breathable.”
If they hadn’t added that, sheeples would be dropping dead in every street!
Is this another example of gaslighting? How can you 1) increase the layers/thickness of fabrics and 2) breathe?
There is huge disparity in mask wearing between local shops and big supermarkets. I experienced this today. Busy village store, only maybe 10% wearing masks (there was a long queue and I was able to observe how many donned masks). But when I was in the big supermarket mask wearers were probably 98%. I think a lot of this is down to perceived risk of Police intervention. People are rightly perceiving the risk of police intervention in their local shop as being close to zero.
They should be perceiving the likelihood of police intervention in any shop as close to zero if all they are doing is shopping.
It’s the wisdom of crowds. They have correctly assessed that confrontation and police intervention is much more likely to occur in big supermarkets.
Sorry I live in the UK (or is it England now?) Where do you live?
Has there been any police intervention?
Yup. Stay local, be a yokel, don’t get badgered by rozzers or Karens. Everybody wins.
I’ve moved from wearing a mask as chinstrap in supermarkets to going totally maskless.
Haven’t had any hassle so far and the feeling of freedom is nice.
I have a sense that while many of the Masked would cheerfully like to strangle me, they are now much more aware of the exemption category and fear being accused of persecuting a disabled person. So they refrain from comment. It’s good to know so many people who hate free speech are dying to say something but fear the consequences.
Of course only a matter of time before the government introduce a scheme of medical certification for exemptions. They will of course try to reduce the number of exempt people.
Doctors won’t see you, they’ll have to ‘examine’ you online, how the hell will they know if you have a hidden disability or not? What if it’s a psychological problem?
stick underpants on your head, pencils up your nose and say wibble
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2DCExerOsA
Any ideas on strategies for when it’s made mandatory everywhere? Since 23rd July I have only left my flat to go outside and smoke a cigarette. Amazingly in Victoria State Kim Jong Dan has exempted smokers from wearing a mask whilst they are smoking.
What a life!
Presumably there are exemptions and the likelihood is they have to be quite broad. Check where you fit in as an exemption.
If I’m ever challenged mine will always be “severe distress”. Which is actually true, I feel physically sick and psychologically disturbed every time I see someone shuffling towards me wearing one.
Same here – totally genuine. And when I had to try one for family reasons I found it unbearable.
I’ve managed to avoid it altogether thusfar. And I’ve not once used hand sanitiser, had my temperature taken with a laser gun or been poked with the deep brain probe yet.
same with me. the only time i have worn a mask was at my barbers the day after they were allowed to open and only to mollify him as he was worried about the mask gestapo. I still keep it in my pocket. And i found that suffocating . Hence i also use the distress exemption and tell anyone that will listen that i will not wear a mask and explain why.
I feel exactly the same way. I have to go back to the city tomorrow for a week and I’m dreading it. As soon as we drive in and I see the maskholes wearing them outdoors I feel my anxiety level go way up. Since my last trip back the city has mandated them inside condo buildings, but this is where I draw the line. I will not wear one to go in and out of my building. As I’ve mentioned the compliance rate in Toronto is 150% (100% indoors as mandated and another huge number of idiots wearing them outside where they are not “yet” mandated) so I will get huge push back. People claiming exemptions here have been refused service and I’m not sure I want to get into a pissing match given my husband is willing to do all the food shopping. I’ll wear my protest mask (the one I wrote PLACEBO on) for the few errands I have to do myself. I feel physically ill the second I put that dam thing on my face but can handle it for very short bursts. On the plus side, I’ll be eating on a patio with my best friend who I haven’t seen for 7 months and visiting my parents who are normal. Once the children are moved I will be relieved to head back to my 60 acres in the country.
Any ideas on why North America has been the global epicentre of the mask madness? I have a few theories:
I agree with you 100%. Your first point boils down to “we’re soft.” Yes, we have not had the same kinds of existential threats as former generations and so we don’t have any backbone. There’s also the culture of “saftey-ism” the explains the fear and compliance of the younger generations. A Canada-specific point is this: we pride ourselves on not being America and so we’re all full of ourselves at how much better we’ve done “containing” the virus. Of course in the US there are far more people pushing back against the mask mandates, but the political polarization there has made mask wearing a Democrat vs. Republican issue. Here in Canada there’s a “we’re all in this together” ethos and those of us who aren’t buying it are labeled knuckle dragging, grandma killing, Trump supporters (I despise the man). I’m fully expecting a Melbourne-style hard lockdown here in the fall or winter, unfortunately.
I’m still struggling to get my head around Melbourne as the gold standard of Covid fascism. This is the city of “Neighbours, everybody needs good neighbours, with a little understanding, you can find the perfect blend….”.
From what I’ve heard from friends in the USA, the Blue States are 100% mask fanatics. Only Iowa and South Dakota have not mandated them state wide.
Health and Safety was the Trojan Horse that we allowed to infect our culture over decades. What we are currently bearing witness to is its apotheosis. As a smoker I have been going out of my way for years to warn people that the incremental elimination of smoking from public life since the mid-1990s was a social engineering experiment whose methods would eventually be rolled out to the whole society. I had no idea that it would be global in scope and implemented in less than 6 months.
Take away Communist run NE USA and statistically USA has done better than Canada. Give me Trump over your boy every day and our buffoon.
But Trump is pro-mask,isn’t he? Or have I missed something?
He’s moved to being lukewarm pro-mask, but started out being ambivalent/anti. His early statements amounted to “apparently you should think about wearing a mask. Can’t see me doing it, personally”. This fed the politicization of the bloody things, with the mask/no mask debate becoming a neat way of signalling anti/pro Trump preferences. If Trump thinks it’s a bad idea it must be good… etc. As usual, this then bleeds into UK herdthink for no obvious reason.
And note that our “Conservative” Party leadership is firmly on the Democrat side of the issue. Not openly in support of the Democrats obviously but not purely coincidentally, either.
They think it gives them ‘agency’s over the Covid.
I don’t know about 1, but as to 2, the USA part of North America has been fading for years. As a relatively privileged American, I started see real slippage by 2000, although cracks were visible before that.
It was largely self-inflicted as corporations moved manufacturing abroad from the 80s on, a movement that the population (unintentionally) encouraged by eagerly buying the cheaper products. By 2000, it was a real struggle to find any every day consumer goods manufactured in the US anymore, despite searching for them. I found it ironic that little American flags that you could buy in shops were made in Vietnam.
The population became increasingly economically insecure as incomes slid relative to inflation. More and more people working two or more part-time jobs. In 2008-9, the extent of corruption in the economy became pretty obvious.
The US is using more and more of its resources in a vain attempt to hold on to its empire abroad and control its people domestically. The virus is just the coup de grace; the collapse has been baked in the cake for a while.
They do like their psy-ops …
i think USA particularly is far more polarised than most countries. Because there is still a very “right wing” (for want of a better term) population, a very woke liberal culture has developed in the cities since the 60s and it is these who have taken up the covid crusade
Yes, the woke-ists are similar in both countries, the real difference is that in the US they still have genuinely more or less conservative powerbases and therefore some genuinely conservative politics still, even at the national level.
That ceased to be the case in this country decades ago, or at the latest perhaps with the Cameron regime as Hitchens suggests.
We are politically like a US NE state that is a Democrat stronghold, where the arguments are between moderate left Democrats and hard left Democrats, only here they are split between “Labour” and “Conservative” parties. It’s very noticeable that modern “Conservative” Party leaders are much more comfortable with Democrat politicians than with Republicans, generally, though obviously they have to work with the latter as well.
I remember someone pointing out that the only reason the US appears more Right-leaning than UK is that they have a much higher proportion of rural vs urban dwellers. And of course all those rural states get equal representation in a federal system.
A federal UK doesn’t solve that for anyone sitting in upland England, Highland Scotland or North Wales.
Maskholes LOL
Yes, it’s such a relief to get a dose of Nature!
Ditto me. Makes me heave.
Went to buy a new super-primitive mobile. Confronted by a ghastly nappied numpty in black mask. Said sorry, I couldn’t look at him while he was noseless or hear him while he was mouthless.
He disappeared up the back passage, and reappeared a minute later maskless. Nice-looking chap snd knew it. Had a beard.
Was that his own back passage?
Me2
He needs the tax, as always.
My Sri Lankan local store owner tells me tobacco and alcohol tax are that countries 2 largest sources of revenue even more so now with no tourism.
Same here almost since day one, hopefully some mask averse shoppers might notice and give the independents their custom in future.
Ancient history
Read the news – any news
‘Kill Bill’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyE9cJ0w1hk
Dr Vernon Coleman latest video talk on vaccines.
“Thank you for watching an old man in a chair”. National hero.
One of our Premier Inns shows signs of life, some new sun umbrellas in the patio area.
I’ll try it for breakfast this morning if it’s not too covidphobic. Unlike most this one was never self service because of the nature of the building.
Another one is having extensive building work, perhaps restructuring the building to be likewise.
More Dr. Vernon Coleman. On Zombies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2PdP_vD-wc
I’ll take new cases for a thousand please Alex
Not quite 1000 it seems
There that’s done it
This is on the BBC!!!!
Fewer hospital patients in Covid-19 hotspots https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53772459
And are we surprised except that it’s the BBC ? someone’s going to get a bollocking.
Heartening that they are, at long last, giving a modicum of publicity to a vaguely positive narrative. There is a link in the article to another one which cites Heneghan, now if we could just get Sunetra Gupta into the mainstream…
Good grief .. next they will be saying that this hot weather is because it is summer and that voting brexit does not make you a racist …
How someone who dies in a hospice can be registered as a covid death is beyond comprehension. I very much doubt such a scenario wouldn’t arise in Denmark or Germany hence their lower Covid “death” rates.
We’re going to South of France on holiday next month, the ridiculous bed-wetting UK government quarantine won’t be stopping us. Just trying to find ways to undermine and subvert this farcical situation. Does anyone know if driving across the border (via ferry) is still considered a ‘voluntary quarantine’ by the French authorities? Does anyone know if they are they even checking? I doubt border force even have enough staff to check everybody coming back into the country in any case, but does anyone actually have any first hand experience?
Just found out about this article in USA Today: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/08/06/stop-coronavirus-compulsory-universal-vaccination-column/3289948001/
I don’t know how influential these two doctors are, but if “coronavirus” vaccines are made compulsory in the US, it will most likely start a civil war.
I think it would in the UK as well. Anybody who would vaccinate their child with a vaccine that has been developed this quickly would need their heads examined and I am not anti vaccine by any stretch of the imagination. Can’t see Johnson’s current mistress allowing her child to be vaccinated.
I was thinking of the fact that probably half of the US population is armed. In recent years, even more liberal people have been arming themselves. When I lived in Indiana not too long ago, one of my work colleagues, a mild-mannered older woman, told me that she was armed, which did surprise me.
Rationally, older women have a greater need to tool up than younger men.
Compulsory medication is outlawed by something from the UN, can’t remember any details.
Every human rights convention.
But do are all the other freedoms ripped away by lockdown.
The militarization of the police in America pre-dated the lockdowns.
They get first dabs when the actual military offload surplus kit.
Absolutely! I was shocked when I first started seeing them using said kit. Happily I witnessed it on video, and not in-person. I stay as far away from American cops as possible. Friends of mine had dangerous run-ins with psychotic police many years ago. I hate to think what they’re like now, especially with psychological “training” to help them use this equipment on their own fellow citizens.
Human rights are not an issue in the US. The increasing militarization of the police and the extreme assaults on people there by the police would overrule any human rights laws from outside the country.
As a native-born American (I live in the UK now), I can tell you that Americans do not believe that any restrictions can be placed on the US by outside bodies.
Article 6 – http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=31058&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html
He’s gone stark raving bonkers.
That was my first reaction on seeing the news flash up on my i-pad this morning about Boris doubling the fines for REPEATEDLY not wearing a mask-interesting to see how that will be policed-will we each have our own mask monitor?
I calmed down once I’d scrolled through the comments and found the one from Lucky with a link to the government website:
“Those who have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering should not be routinely asked to give any written evidence of this, this includes exemption cards. No person needs to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about their reason for not wearing a face covering.
Some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a HOME MADE SIGN. ( My emphasis)
This is a personal choice and IS NOT NECESSARY IN LAW.”
A sort of Carte Blanche then?
I‘ve been saying this from the moment that masks were introduced. The government don’t really want you to wear a face covering otherwise why make it so easy to not comply?
Face masks are nappies for covering the government’s arse.
Its basically doubling the fear to make people comply and not bother to know their rights. Its appalling and shocking how many companies, institutions and people who don’t even bother to check the exemptions.
Even Mr Bart is who is a sceptic wears the muzzle on public transport as he’s afraid of being fined and thinks that both of us couldn’t be exempt. I did ask him what about a couple with both asthma? Or one who has COPD and another with PTSD? Or what about someone who is hearing impaired and another who has to translate?
That’s the problem, we are being ruled by fear and ignorance. OH has a lanyard and I have a badge. We “claim” exemption for different reasons. No-one has ever questioned us, nor will they. May I be allowed to grant Mr Bart his exemption please?
Eh? Both my other half and I are medically exempt and we do not wear masks. Even if we didn’t have conditions we would both exempt ourselves on the grounds of distress which is actually genuine. Mr Bart doesn’t need to risk a fine. Download and print a card from the government website, it doesn’t give any reason, ‘just says you’re exempt.
Isn’t the fine for refusing to wear rather than not wearing one? Which makes me wonder if the worst thing would be having to politely say “sorry I forgot” through gritted teeth…
Agreed. Surely the first thing you would think is “What?? How do I get out of this shit?”
If you read this contemptible document, don’t forget to send them some feedback. Space at end of the page.
What age is reason not to comply ?
Under 11 I think… For now. in the good old US of A I think it’s only under 3s
There are two reasons for face masks, firstly so the government can signal its virtue to the bed setters, not that it will actually win them any votes. And secondly so it can claim credit for “beating” a second wave when nature has already done the job and the virus has disappeared. As for the bacterial infections, sickness, diarrhoea etc that is going to spread as a result of everyone touching their putrid mask covered faces all the time? Collateral damage….
At the moment tho the increase in cases in France and the UK (not that it matters, as we all know here) happen to correlate very nicely with the introduction of mask mandates
Obviously their solution to it is more masks
I don’t think masks actually increase (or indeed decrease) the spread. What they can do, however, is increase the viral load – someone carrying the virus is forced to reinhale rather than emit the virus – which can turn a minor infection into a major one (source: https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/369/bmj.m2003.full.pdf)
Did you notice the name of one of the contributors to this was Susan Michie, Professor of Health Psychology? We all know about Susan, don’t we?
That one’s passed me by. What should I know?
She is what was once termed a ‘tankie’, a long-term hardline Stalinist. I don’t use the term lightly or metaphorically when she I say she is evil.
Health Psychology is brain washing, for your own good of course (vomit)
I noticed she’s a psychologist rather than a virologist, so I suspect she’s not responsible for the part of the paper about viral load. Worrying, though, how many of these extremists seem to be in positions of influence. Probably explains why Government policy over this outbreak seems to be designed to do as much damage to society and economy as possible.
The mandatory wearing of masks is a political decision as Deborah Cohen stated. The political pressure comes from the US and the CDC ( a highly partisan body now focussed on the November election ) . Biden has called for the wearing of masks everywhere in the US outside the home. Expect the pressure to increase in all western countries.
I am quite sure that what they want is to demonstrate that they have total control of the population. The extraordinary compliance with the mask mandates shows them that they are achieving it. I do not believe they care anything for covering their arses. The stakes are much bigger than that.
Notice how they are upping the ante, bit by bit. Local lock-downs which are not getting lifted, more cruel and irrational mandates e.g. masks as well as visors for hairdressers, masks on children, huge fines for ‘illegal’ gatherings (protests?) We are now in a police state and those wearing masks demonstrate that have been brainwashed into welcoming it for their ‘safety’.
WHEN ARE PEOPLE GOING TO SEE THIS AND STOP COMPLYING FFS ?????????
A little walk round the block (I am doing far more of those at the moment just to get out of the house). A family and young kid on the way to our local Tesco. Adults not wearing masks (presumably that will be later) but 9 year oldish son had one on and clearly proud of it. One of these days I am going to stop one of these little lads, ask him his age, and say ‘you can have one of these exemption cards as well’. Totally nuts.
Careful now, davews. I always feel an urge to speak to parents of masked children, but have controlled this.
People get quite intense when their ‘parenting abilities’ are called into question in any way.
AT LEAST the bastards haven’t removed the exemption and they have made them clearer and extended them to include wearing a home made badge and not having to provide written evidence.
They’re a compliance indicator.
More craziness from Sturgeon-land, where the dementedly fearful wear gags in the open air and then discard them on pavements!!:
a friend rang yesterday to suggest a visit to a nearby beauty spot,where we could walk and enjoy the countryside.
One snag: the other friend-a lockdown adherent-had qualms about 3 people travelling in the first friend’s car!!!
Back to the drawing board: how will the frightened one deal with the trade offs?
Enjoyable trip with 2 pals, neither of whom are lethal plague carriers, or choose the safer option.
I’m now having great difficulties in controlling my exasperation.
Leave the bedwetter at home. How do you like those apples?
Yep, tell them you are going and they can come or not. As a bonus, they will be able to see afterwards that you are still alive, and they are still foolish.
[Edit, clearly I misunderstood your comment, so this reply does’t apply here. Doh! That’s what I get for commenting first thing, pre-coffee. Imagine if you will that you had written that your friend was insisting, say , that you wear masks or travel in different cars….]
It’s a genuinely tricky one if they can’t be persuaded. In the past I’ve always been tolerant and flexible on political issues in the personal contact sphere, disliking campaigning “cancel culture” type zealots, who are almost always of the left. I’ve lost lots of contacts, social and otherwise, during my life, over politics, but it has always come from them, not from me. I’ve taken the view that personal contact is far more important than mere politics.
Over this, I’ve for the first time in my life taken the other view. I believe that conforming to coronapanic theatre is so damaging in itself – every person who conforms to these literally stupid measures or gives them any credence reinforces the fear that is both the root and the main active mechanism in the disaster we are living through – that it’s important enough to take some stands even in personal life.The last issue as direct and important as the coronapanic, imo, was the Iraq War, and I didn’t do this even for that. In that case, people who backed it were wrong, clearly, but their individual actions made little difference to what the US and British governments were going to do.
Certainly I can understand the counter argument – I’ve always been very irritated by priggish lefties who make little personal stands on issues that are both controversial and so big anyway that individual actions make no effective difference. But this case is different imo – it’s a direct political issue where our actions are immediately relevant.
So in that case in our shoes I would decline to make alternative arrangements that pander to the patently false idea that there is any meaningful risk in travelling together.
But it’s obviously a decision only you can make for yourself. Every case of this kind is individual, both from person to person and case to case.
The brainwashed fools who believe all the Corona bullshit are DANGEROUS.
Put them in the boot?
Like it! And thanks to all for suggestions.
They could stick their head out of the car window, doggy style?
A good one, but the pesky pathogens might be airborne! All that fresh air streaming past might be deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYTuPbZwMOM
We are all now just passengers on the who, eu, westminster, hollyrood, public sector gravy train…..which will lead, eventually, if unchecked, to queues, ration cards, (more) ‘special status’ perks for senior public officials and so on…….and that could be by the end of the year if another ‘lethal’ (for real or from another China, via who, induced panic) virus turns up.
‘You Westerners don’t understand us at all. You can’t use terms like ‘upper class’ and ‘middle class’ here. Everything depends on the status of the organization that appoints you. The Academy of Sciences nomenklaturam are good, but the party’s is better.’
Dr. Alexander Zinoviev, author, mathematician, 1981.
He may have been correct, but we seem to be getting the hang of it surprisingly quickly….
On the Soviet system, I recommend ‘Black Sun’ by Owen Matthews. The author has part Russian ancestry and has a home in Moscow.
He’s written a number of books about Russia and its various incarnations.
Why double down on compliance rags? Because they’ve just been humiliated (a bit) on the death stats. The priority here, indeed the sole government objective now, is to show us all who’s lord mayor and stop the proles from getting uppish.
Well, it was always about control, for sure.
How many fines have been issued? What about the exemptions? I actually think this is meaningless drivel. De Pfeffel at his most piffling. Fiddling whilst Rome burns.
Sorry, it’s me again.
OK so what would YOU have done if you were Boris?
I was asked this question yesterday in the middle of a heated pub debate with someone who was defending him.
These were my answers:
Anyone want to add more?
I would have regarded and treated people as grown-ups.
I would have ignored the mainstream media.
I would not have left Hancock in post – as a non-entity, he would have proved inept even in normal times. He’s been utterly floundering in all this.
I’d have made a cup of tea and sat back for a bit. And read some history.
Oh, and I’ve have read Mackay’s Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds.
I would not have produced tons of conflicting guidance making businesses attempt to convert their premises into fortresses against an undetectable microscopic foe (aka Covid Secure)
I would not have introduced the insidious concept that individuals going about their normal business are now responsible for anyone else’s health
And of course face masks would have been actively discouraged
I would have gone full on Churchillian, and insisted on keeping societal respect focused on those who deserve it – those who keep calm and carry on in the face of difficulties such as a new kind of cold, and attacked head on those who foolishly think it’s “selfish” to try to keep things running for everyone’s benefit. That would have been the genuinely conservative and trad British approach. I would have implicitly believed that ultimately if I took that stand enough of the people would back me to push through, and also that if not then it was my duty to try and to go down fighting, if necessary, against the cowards who would surrender to panic.
I would also have carried out an immediate purge of any cabinet members and advisers likely to weasel in the face of the fight to come (not against the disease, but against those who would panic in the face of it) – probably Cummings for a start, given the rumours of his obsessive personal issue with this disease, and turned the propaganda and behavioural manipulation resources.at the government’s disposal to generating fortitude in the face of this disease.
Given all that I see no reason why we could not have come out as well as Sweden did, and Johnson could have achieved his dream (of which he proved pathetically unworthy) of being a great leader of his country.
Made HCQ available to Health professionals and ten to the general public.
When, eventually, the hysteria dies down and the people wake up and survey the wreckage I think Boris will be seen as a tragic figure, as well as a clown. Despite his obvious and plentiful flaws he had an unlikely but clear opportunity to act like his beloved Churchill – he could have followed his first, correct, instinct to “be like Sweden” and emerge as a hero who took a decision that was unpopular with the masses (remember appeasement was the clear will of the country at the time) but completely vindicated by events. But as we know that requires character, strength of will and any number of other qualities that the despicable charlatan lacks.
Told Archbishop of Canterbury he’d be sacked if he closed churches.
Admit the mistakes (even at this late stage) rather than trying to bluff a way out.
I would have called in the various devolved head honchos and made the argument that this should have been dealt with as a public health matter with a unified approach for the entire UK.
Instead we have the endless divisive point scoring, border area shenanigans and the rise of the SNP.
The mask recommendations should have been made voluntary.
Refusal to wear a mask should never, never have been subject to imposition of fines.
Essential health services like dentistry, optometry, chiropody, podiatry and others should not have been shut down for so long, nor in such a draconian and inconsistent manner.
The over reliance on emotional incontinence and virtue signalling, which led to the inane cultish celebration of ‘our NHS’ should never have been introduced and encouraged.
I would have invited a delegation from Sweden to Westminster for an open discussion of the merits of the Swedish strategy.
Conquering of endemic mass hysteria by public and frequent, acknowledgement of the vital role played by the many poorly paid workers who have not fallen ill,despite prolonged and necessary contact with the public: care assistants, shop staff, delivery drivers,security guards, postal workers etc.
Universities should not have closed.
Agreed. Should have made it clear that any crisis big enough to get the military involved is clearly not a devolved issue. Holyrood effectively had control of part of the UK Armed Forces (maybe they still do?) Extraordinary when you think about it.
I would not have released daily ‘death’ figures or published the day of registration chart. Figures yes, but in a non alarmist format that clearly showed that most deaths were with not of.
I would not have allowed doctors to put Covid on a death certificate without good reason
And what’s great about your list is that nothing on it required hindsight
Thanks Stewart, I didn’t want to be accused of being wise after the event.
What has happened to the Five Tests and the traffic lights?
I would have done a complete 360 analysis of the impact of lockdown scenarios based on time and severity – evaluate impact on economy, jobs, health, psychological, society etc to determine whether the disease justified the lockdown impacts. We’re finding now that it doesn’t!
I’d get a range of different scientific views not rely on a dodgy Ferguson whose track record was blemished to say the least. In fact exclude him altogether. Also understand their bias/political leaning as would influence the recommendations.
I’d not release the older folks from hospital direct into care homes – stupid when they knew they were vulnerable. I’d have ensured the care homes/older were properly shielded.
I’d have kept the health service open for the priority cases and segregated virus patients in separate virus centres
I’d have shut travel from most affected areas Wuhan/China, Milan etc
I’d have ensured correct statistical analysis which was accurate and correct, and consistent.
I’d have been honest and transparent with the people – those daily briefings were evidence that they hadn’t got a clue and excruciating to watch them flounder and bullshit “save the nhs” and “follow the science” nonsense. I’d have got a decent spokesperson who at least sounded credible!!
380 million doses of corona vaccine have been purchased by UK gov for the UK. 6 vaccine types. One of the vaccines is being produced in UK.
Population 70 million 50% of whom have said no to your untested dangerous vaccine.
All of us are paying for a long tome for this.
In USA on vaccine msnufacturee that has been funded by US Gov money has announced it will charge $3000 a course of Covid19 vaccine treatment. The vaccine was developed by a private company with state money
https://mobile.twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1291091194827726848
Hello, I’m your handy Translato-bot:
“The best available scientific evidence [we found someone who will say what we want] is that, when used correctly [you don’t know how to do this] , wearing a face covering may [hardly scientific] reduce the spread of coronavirus droplets in certain circumstances [it’s just about possible, but unlikely in the real world], helping to protect others [we know you will think it’s a gas mask].”
I saw that and quoted it on the NHS Facebook page. I just don’t know how people can be so ignorant as to think face masks actually do any good, and when I say ignorant i don’t mean that in an insulting way, just that I wonder how they can not have understood that they really don’t do much at all, if anything.
£10k ‘on the spot fine’ for illegal gatherings. Is that proportionate? Police by consent is over if it ever was. Shown with illegal raves in mind but oh oh it also will apply to any future protest.
Sounds like pre-emptory move against possible civil unrest.
Unlikely the thought of a fine will deter anyone planning on riot, arson, looting, or destruction.
All done through Statutory Instruments I presume?
This will be the pattern everywhere in Europe. Localize and delegate. Pin the blame on local authority instead of the national government which has ruined the country with the response. They think it will less costly this way. Will the fear mongers in MSM abide or press for national ones again?
“The French government on Friday declared Paris and Marseille and its surrounding area high-risk zones for the coronavirus, granting authorities there powers to impose localised curbs to contain the spread of the disease.”
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-france/paris-marseille-named-as-high-risk-covid-zones-making-curbs-likelier-idUKKCN25A0LC
Further down the page, I sneeringly posted a tweet sent to Andy Burnham asking what level the positive test numbers needed to be for people to “feel/be safe”.
I stick by the sneering, but if you turn the intent of question around I think this is an important thing we need to know. How much Covid is too much Covid? It clearly has nothing to do with healthcare capacity anymore, but rather, either percentage figures or absolute numbers in the population appearing to be infected. But at the same time, it doesn’t seem remotely clear what the trigger point is for deciding to be concerned enough to “impose restrictions”. As in Guy de Bedoyère’s essay in yesterday’s page, this appears to be arbitrary and chaotic, which makes it a disastrous policy, that can only compound the problems caused by the disastrous government of most of the western world over the course of the last 6 months.
https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/nz-covid-19-oubreak-spread-beyond-auckland-with-12-new-confirmed-cases
“Health Minister Chris Hipkins said there were 12 confirmed cases of local transmission and 1 probable, following the shock reemergence of the virus in Auckland on Tuesday. He said 2 of the infections were found in the North Island town of Tokoroa, around 210 kilometres south of Auckland.
The infections outside Auckland come despite a strict lockdown, including masked police blocking roads to seal its borders.
All of the cases so far are connected, they are all part of 1 Auckland-based cluster, that’s good news. We’ve seen no evidence of a Covid-19 case outside of Auckland that is unrelated to the cluster we are dealing with.”
The genie is out of the bottle. In the cluster, yes, but 200 km from Auckland. St Jacinda has prolonged lock down for Auckland 12 days, what is she going to do with the rest of the country?
The rest of the country should be considering what to do with St Jacinda!
(I have one or two ideas on that issue.)
12 days now is it? I did have a little chuckle when I saw her defenders in twitter stating ‘ffs people it’s only 3 days, get a grip’… The same pattern repeats itself and these morons parrot the same lies each time. ‘its only for 20mins whilst you shop’, ‘its only for 3 weeks to flatten the curve’ etc… When will the cretins realise they’re being lied to endlessly? Power man dictators all over the world.
People who have been fined several times for not wearing a mask when using public transport are to receive heavier fines. So ’twas said on Radio 4’s news this morn.
How many ‘offenders’ are we talking about? Half a dozen? – two? – one?
I asked this because I recall a while back hearing that on the rail network only 13 fines had been issued in a fortnight.
Some concept of the numbers involved are needed to understand the thinking behind this.
It smacks of totalitarianism – rather than a measured measure to ensure public health.
If it is meant to curtail the spread of the virus to what extent is it imagined it will do so?
Are passengers noticeably begining to rebel? Has it been been done to encourage the others not to – as Voltaire might have said.
Thankfully wildlife conservation work has now resumed and so I was out working on the Torridge headwaters yesterday and have not followed the messages on this site. I think some people have questioned whether this discussion page does much good, preaching to the converted and disappearing after a day?
So just writing to say I do benefit from this discussion page, it gives me the knowledge and confidence to raise issues with others and hold my corner in a discussion, I have done some tweets and replies to tweets and been liked, re-tweeted and followed (spooky feeling!). So in a way we are the ‘sceptics virus’ if each one of us spreads the word, sceptic cases will rise, a sort of R rate for sceptics, except that I do not think you ever recover from scepticism, it just grows………………… we live in hope.
I spread the word whenever I can. Expressed my views to someone last night. They were so grateful to actually talk with someone who hadn’t bought into the madness. One convert at a time.
Me too, sent emails to sister in Cumbria (where I like to think people are sensible) and best friend with best links….john lee YouTube video (tho long), a swiss doctor, Carl henegan at cebm, speigelhalter on Today programme yesterday, bbc report from November 2018 saying excess winter deaths 2017-18 50,000.
Very glad to hear that your vital work has resumed; I’ve been worried about the dire consequences for wild creatures.
Steve – are you up in the north of Cox’s constituency then?
I’m towards the south, so a long way apart!
Village of Dolton, south of Great Torrington.
I know Dolton. Pass through it sometimes. I’m down near Tavi.
Absolutely, there’s very much a place for preaching to the converted. Boosts morale, allows exchanges of information, tests arguments, reassures people that they are not alone.
Infect away, good man
Hairdressers now have to wear facemasks under their visors from 15/08.
My wife is a hairdresser and she’s said that this will be almost impossible to do all day. She suffers from anxiety and already finds it difficult to see due to glasses steaming up (being able to see is quite an important part of this job). Currently working non-stop without any breaks to get rid of back log. The thought of wearing a mask continuosly has reduced her to tears.
Another restriction plucked out if thin air for no reason.
Exemption. Quite simple.
That’s what I’ve told her she must do. I feel sorry for all other hairdressers though. A lot of them are on their feet non-stop in hot humid conditions. A mask, glasses and a visor is just too much.
They should all seem exemptions
Absolutely, they must, for their own health.
Is it commercially possible to be exempt? It’s possible a loss of custom will result by not wearing double layers of visible faux barriers. If the customers are buying the brainwashing. Exempt yes.
She may have to play it by ear but exempt is exempt.
The loss of each bed-wetting customer will be more than made up for by those women who are delighted to have their hair done in the “old normal” manner.
I am a regular customer at an out-of-the-way cafe. To my surprise, as soon as they realised I hated this nonsense, not only did they stop asking me to sign any T&T shite, but they stopped asking anyone else.
My mere presence caused the cafe to become “sceptic” for the time that I was there. I suspect that this place may start to realise that, in a country area, their business comes from the sceptic end of the market.
P.S. Two buiders have just walked in. Heavy boots, t-shirts, hard hats, no masks and breezed past the T&T table. They did sanitise their hands, of course; they were builders who actually work for a living.
Dreadful! How can this nonsense possibly benefit small businesses and encourage more customers to visit?
Stress related symptoms making life a misery for ever more people.
I’ve already cancelled a planned appointment because of these arbitrary rules.
Me too. I think hairdressers will have to consider going mobile to survive.
Yes – there must be loads of people like me who won’t go to a salon any more.
What about those customers who have perms or shampoo and sets? Surely they can’t be expected to wear a mask whilst under a hairdryer? It’s bad enough if you had to wear one for a blow dry.
This is still guidance, not law, isn’t it (getting tired of looking these up every five minutes)? There’s a case on Simon Dolan’s page about a hairdresser who fought off local council Hitlers, I think her handle was VickyInTheUK.
Cheers – I’ll look into that
Yep. Just guidance. Why are so many people taking the guidance as law. Guidance can be ignored completely. The law has various exemptions for everything that can be used by everybody if they choose to, so can also be ignored completely.
Grant Schapps on R4, bit of a kicking?
The tsunami of facemasks will reach the Nordic countries very soon incl.Sweden. Facemasks is now a pure political issue and with Biden endorsing it and CDC Trump’s corona team fuelling it. MSM is now pro mask. Sweden’s politicians and MSM will not stop this and press for it in every Nordic country .MSM has an enormous influence also there. We might have perhaps a more relaxed attitude to face masks only in Eastern Europe. And face masks is not proven effective and some points to increase transmission. But MSM and Big Pharma want a free advertisement for vaccines and they are going to get it.
And face masks is not proven effective and some points to increase transmission
I don’t think people should play this game. The problem with masks isn’t whether they ‘work’ – especially when the virus isn’t even here any more. If you quote ‘science’ then the authorities will simply create or select ‘science’ that shows they do ‘work’. The real issue is that they are an inhuman abomination, and that the people promoting them are either focused on a single ‘metric’ and don’t know what the wider side effects will be, or are authoritarian zealots who want to control everyone with a visual badge of compliance – all their wet dreams come true.
Agreed. H & S at work is an accepted concept, with PPE in the building trades and all the rest of it. But I can’t think of another occasion when what you wear as a member of the public has been a legal issue before.
People who have been fined several times for not wearing a mask when using public transport are to receive heavier fines. So ’twas said on Radio 4’s news this morn.
How many ‘offenders’ are we talking about? Half a dozen? – two? – one?
I asked this because I recall a while back hearing that on the rail network only 13 fines had been issued in a fortnight.
Some concept of the numbers involved are needed to understand the thinking behind this.
It smacks of totalitarianism – rather than a measured measure to ensure public health.
If it is meant to curtail the spread of the virus to what extent is it imagined it will do so?
Are passengers noticeably begining to rebel? Has it been been done to encourage the others not to? – as Voltaire might have said.
WTF?! So the virus is “levelling out” but fines for not wearing masks are going up! What next curfews like Australia? Quarantine camps like New Zealand?!
Where is the quote from~?
Just tried to get an appointment at my local surgery to have my right ear syringed as have gone totally deaf.
‘Not one of the proceedures we are doing at the moment’.
‘Can you tell me why?’
‘Debris could fly out’
‘Does the debris have corona virus?’
‘Don’t know. It might do.’
‘So I just have to stay deaf?’
‘Yes. I can put you on our waiting list for when we start this proceedure again’.
‘How long will this be?’
‘Don’t know’.
Give me peace!
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/LUGGUARDS%C2%AE-Stream-Removal-Syringe-STERILE/dp/B07JN43JQD/ref=sr_1_13?crid=1G2H06DNF70V4&dchild=1&keywords=ear+syringes+for+removing+ear+wax&qid=1597391914&sprefix=ear+syringe%2Caps%2C303&sr=8-13
Sorry about length of link, but, this will solve the rpoblem and restore your sanity.
I’ve suffered for many years and bought one of these when the madness started.
It works.
Can I think you also for that link. ‘Tis tinitus I have in my left ear – since October.
Thank you for this. I have been putting olive oil in and can generally get the wax out myself using a rubber water syringe – but not this time.
Try sodium bicarbonate ear drops available either via a pharmacy or from Amazon. Works better than olive oil at softening wax.
Every single one of those treatments just blocks up my ears twice as badly and nothing comes out at the end of it all. I’ve given up for now, you get used to being deaf and it can be handy at times (“Where’s your mask?” etc). Besides, a lot of GPs don’t do ear syringing at all any more, some places will suck it out with a sort of vacuum cleaner-type gizmo I think. I read something about it well before covid, where people were being forced to pay £120ish per ear to have them done privately, because it’s no longer an NHS service.
Yet you can get this done if you pay to hire an entrepreneurial medic or nurse to do it. The NHS is hiding behind the sofa.
Olive oil drops in it for a week. Or earsolve or similar. Get large 50ml syringe from Ebay. Hopefully you have someone who can gently squirt warm water in your ear. Otherwise, it is possible to do it yourself. I’ve done hubby’s ears for years, he gets blocked up all the time.
I would be carefull doing it yourself or getting somebody to do it for you. You can burst your eardrum fairly easily I have hear this from a few nurses now.
They stopped using the syringe thing about 15 years ago as it was too dangerous and they all use a special ear syringe, a pumped electric thing that regulates the pressure accurately.
Also anti ear wax drops have UREA in them which is very irritating to skin after a short time. I have tried it and it really messed up my ear skin.
Olive oil is good but you do need to hose out the gunk, I found going swimming a lot helped to dislodge my ear gunk in the past.
Infuriating the way so many medical professionals have so meekly caved in to such obviously absurdly disproportionate nonsense, as an excuse not to do their jobs.
In addition to the recommended olive oil drops in ear treatment, also consider increasing your omega 3 levels
Ear wax accumulation is associated with Omega-3 deficiency
https://vitamindwiki.com/Ear+wax+accumulation+is+associated+with+Omega-3+deficiency
Well said. A spoonful of ground linseed each day-originally tried for another reason-has helped significantly.
If you see this PaulC, buy some linseed as well as the syringe.
Paul, I find that Otex drops are a big help with ear wax. You can get them in most pharmacies.
Coronavirus: Trump clashes with Biden over whether to require masks in US
Biden full on maskhole, Trump hiding behind States’ rights.
Trump clearly started out (as so often) with the right instincts in relation to masks – he didn’t like them. Unfortunately he was coerced by political necessity to give them at least half-hearted backing because the massive media propaganda meant most American were either full on coronapanic zealots or “it can’t do any harm” collaborators.
It’s really very sad that the conservative media (such as it is) and party establishment couldn’t get strongly behind the argument that masks have no clear impact on disease spread but absolutely are harmful because they do spread fear of the disease.
Instead, as so often we have leftist zealots pushing nonsense, and divided conservatives failing to resist properly. Pretty much the story of the C20th/C21st so far in the US sphere.
Unfortunately, Biden had played a good hand here (politically). He, or more likely his carers, have found a crack in the Trump position.
Trump doesn’t believe in masks but has been forced to advocate for them. So now he is trapped between going full mask and alienating his hard core base or going full anti mask and alienating moderates who all buy the mask BS. And if he half arses it, he’ll appear political, which spoils his no nonsense image.
He is snookered on this one.
Indeed, although I think in the sense that they had a good hand dealt to them and are proceeding to exploit it.
First they stole our freedom under the guise of controlling Covid ‘deaths’, and that seamlessly morphed overnight into Covid ‘cases’ in the country, then into ‘areas & towns’. Now they are upping the ante and doubling down on control because of what’s happening (or not) in somebody else’s country.
Who do you think it is that decides which country is next on the ‘uptick’ roster, pour encourager les autres?
I used to laugh at the world conspiracy theories. Now, it’s quite simply the only credible explanation.
An uprising is the only way to test the theory, and if foreign armies pile in to ‘aid’ TPTB, we will know for sure.
‘First they used Manhattan, then they used Berlin’. L Cohen.
Blamegame.UK or Australia?
“Health Minister Chris Hipkins said genome testing suggested the new virus outbreak had originated in Britain or Australia, but officials were still investigating how the family in Auckland contracted it”
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-newzealand/new-zealand-reports-more-covid-19-cases-ahead-of-lockdown-decision-idUKKCN2593AZ
After reading the article about the appalling way PHE has deceived the British public by deliberately inflating Covid deaths why haven’t any of them been arrested? Still on full pay are they?
Toby thank you for this website it’s an oasis in a storm!
…and the feeble excuse was they didn’t want to miss any. What, by counting a load of people who didn’t die from it! Is that what passes as science these days? These numbers have been fundamental in ruining peoples lives and livelihoods, removing civil liberties, causing avoidable cancer deaths, etc. and they treat them like a GCSE science project. Not to mention if it hadn’t been scrutiny from outside they wouldn’t have even been called out on it. This isn’t a game.
PHE Should be disbanded immediately and it’s directors suspended on no pay untill a court hearing where they should be charged with a range of charges.
The phrase “good enough for government work” is widespread for good reason.
It’s not really surprising. The last couple of decades have seen any number of scandals, Iraq, Libya, grooming gangs, the financial crisis etc. that have caused untold damage to people and non of the people responsible within government, or authority, have been held to account.
If the government mandated vaccination and it killed half the populace, I still doubt any responsibility would be taken.
You’ll be expecting policepeople to be found guilty for shooting innocent people in cold blood next.
You’d be sacked AND possibly liable for huge sums (depending on line of work). If I fucked up a clients software project this bad there’d be major consequences for my boss (well, his little company & by extension him) and myself. Amazing how at the ‘top’, there are never consequences.
Haha quite!! Politicians and Health chiefs – the Harry Redknapps of the public sector world.
In fairness (I say this also as a software dev), getting the exact desired figures out of the database would be something agreed during analysis and design. It would be quite quick to determine the figures weren’t correct and it would be easily fixed (it’s almost certainly a change to database query or updating filter; something that won’t take 4 months).
I think, but will definitely concede I may not be right, that PHE was doing exactly what the government wanted and created a convenient plausible deniability trapdoor for Hancock. As soon as those figures are questioned, Hancock can slope his shoulders.
I’m certainly not disagreeing that PHE is utterly incompetent though.
Are we all software devs waiting for the compiler up here at this time of day?
LOL
It’s not incompetence. It’s following orders.
All the difference in the world.
DT Parliamentary sketch writer told of his son being asked that question at school.
“Eating custard creams”
‘What makes you unhappy ?”
“not eating custard creams”
‘If you are unhappy what do you do to make yourself happy?’
“…eat some custard cream”.
That is some sound logic.
Amazing set of charts from Christopher Bowyer in today’s Hector Drummond post: https://hectordrummond.com/2020/08/14/week-31-graphs-from-christopher-bowyer/
To me the most shocking are the location & cause of death charts towards the end of the post. For about the last 3 months deaths in hospitals have been significantly trending below the 5 year average for deaths in hospital, but the real shock is to be found in the excess deaths in care homes & deaths at home. In care homes of the excess deaths more died from non-covid causes than died with covid! There’s no reason to suppose that a significant proportion of the ‘covid’ deaths didn’t also die of the causes that killed the ‘non-covid’ residents, probably; neglect, dehydration, depression etc. The same is true of deaths at home. There was a massive increase in deaths at home but only about 15% of those excess fatalities were covid positive, and this is going on still.
I Went to see a customer just after peak lockdown and they had “an old guy” in their neighbouring flat who had died, alone, in his room and NOBODY realised until his stinking corpse became too my to bear. He had died about 3 weeks previously. I think this has happened A LOT.
Also of concern is the treatment of the elderly in care homes.
There were numerous cases prior to lockdown of negligence, cruelty or callousness towards the residents, caught by vigilant family who noticed things during visits.
That control on staff behaviour no longer exists.
I don’t like the way Covid ‘measures’ are celebrated by ordinary people. Businesses sell them as a feature. In an outdoor cafe yesterday, the owner showed a family to a table saying “Ah yes, this one’s been cleaned”.
I don’t want to know that. It’s like telling the customer all the details of what was found in the toilets last night, or the sell-by dates of the food they’re serving. Some things are better left unsaid.
In a hellish vision at another outdoor establishment, I saw a youth in a face mask with a bucket and brush, going round scrubbing wooden tables and seats as customers left them, leaving everything wet and presumably smelling of disinfectant, ready for the next lucky punters.
I hate it too.
I make a point of gently advising staff (as they can’t do much about it) that I visit a cafe because they don’t excessively overdo the staff PPE.
Canaries was the last part of Spain with no compulsory face masks outdoors. That has changed today. Canaries’s economy 40 % from tourist industry. The pressure was too much from central government and a frightened population willing to a local suicide.
Only a country with no facemasks will be the only one to attract tourists in the long run. Montenegro? Croatia? Bulgaria? The Mediterranean tourist countries will continue with face nappies in a willing and easily duped population until the whole thing collapses when the money runs out.
A friend just told me he’d just paid a big builder’s bill, the builder had asked for cash coz all his subcontractors were furloughed!
A friend in the trade is aware some sites were/are active and collecting furlough. It appears, they say, there is a very easy system to collect double pay.
The whole world has been used as a hostage to the US politics. The pandemic will end 3rd Nov. If you were not a conspiracy theorist, each day makes it more difficult to resist. A very good read.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/08/13/the_attempted_covid_coup_of_2020_143952.html
The USA “Democrats” are just ONE group hitching their wagons onto The Corona Project Train.
The global coronapanic was in full flow before the US election began to impinge all that much on events, but it;’s certainly true that as the US campaign has heated up it has increasingly exported politicised coronapanic around the world, especially to US sphere countries such as the UK and EU.
With billions spent and the results affecting vital interests all around the world, it’s no wonder that US Presidential politics is integrated into politics and governance throughout the US sphere and beyond. So it might be that the coronapanic will end when the Presidential election ends, but if so then most likely only because it will have been kept going artificially to serve political purposes in that election.
Equally possibly the coronapanic will still be going then, though it might lose some US-sourced heat, because governments will still desperately be trying to avoid any admission that they trashed the world for nothing, and will be looking to ramp up fear again as the northern hemisphere respiratory virus season returns.
Turned on Talk Radio just before 8am. They were discussing the A level results and interviewer chatting to a girl who was upset that her results had been downgraded to less than required for her university. University course was going to be media studies or whatever. At which point the lady interviewer spent several minutes saying ‘why on earth do you want to go into journalism, there are far better jobs out there. PLEASE chose a different subject’. Honestly that sort of behaviour from the media is the limit, she should be discussing the subject under hand, not trying to tell her interviewee she is wrong.
It’s interesting that someone in the media is telling someone looking for work in the media to not do it.
My first reaction thought was the obvious jump to an accusation of hypocrisy, shortly followed by wondering if the media cake was getting divided a little too thin.
However, I do wonder if it’s a tacit acknowledgement that there is something a little rotten in the media world and it was more of a genuine warning.
It’s to do with diluting the quality of what used to be a profession. Thousands of barely literate brainwashed automatons flooding a diminishing employment market is hardly to be desired. Reminds me of the joke saying “You piss-heads are giving us alcoholics a bad name”.
Very bad news for New Zealand, and for mask wearers everywhere:
‘These results provide an explanation for enigmatic observations that viruses with very high genetic identity can be found in very distant and different environments.
‘The highest relative deposition rates for viruses were associated with atmospheric transport from marine rather than terrestrial sources.’
‘There is evidence that bacteria and viruses can remain viable after atmospheric transport, which is consistent with the wide dispersal of microbes across very distant ecosystems. Hence, significant downward fluxes of bacteria and viruses from the atmosphere may have effects on the structure and function of recipient ecosystems. Rather than being a negative consequence, this deposition provides a seed bank that should allow ecosystems to rapidly adapt to environmental changes.’
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41396-017-0042-4
Oh, so the wide spread of viruses on the wind has been going on for millenia, and is actually a good thing for adaptable ecosystems/species? And which is one of the most adaptable species…….?
But everyone already knew that…..except for those affected by harmful chemicals finding solace from incipient paranoia on twitter……
I think gates has the answer sewn up. He has invested in sun blocking technologies – yes our sun, the big one in the sky. So it will be a simple fix to UVA and UVB the virus out of the sk…. hang on there, isn’t that what the sun does already better that gates and for free? Wasn’t it agreed that viruses are not fond of sunlight and fresh air. It all feels a little like acid rain all over again. Now my cogs are turning, corona is acid proof. I expect to be told soon that corona wears red underpants outside its blue leggings.
With this new found study it is clear all glacial and Ice cap drilling and exploration ought to be stopped until viral security of operations can be arranged. Don’t want them unlocking coronas bigger brother now do we.
It used to be said in the early 80s that by the time a person reached 40 years of age that person would have breathed the same molecules of oxygen as Jesus. I don’t know if this was debunked. It’s a nice thought so I kept it.
That’s fabulous. St. Jacinda should weep.
When will these idiots realise they can’t control nature. It’s the same when a volcano erupts and people want to know how to stop it ever happening again. It drives me mad that humans think they are more powerful than nature.
Particularly as it was almost certainly not true. I seriously doubt they actually remained 2m apart but saying “socially distanced of course” at the end of a statement about what you’ve been doing has become the modern day equivalent of saying “bless you” after a sneeze.
I’m sure you’ll all like this:
https://realclimatescience.com/2020/08/my-new-sign/
Don’t slink around. Look as though you are looking for a fight. Eye contact first. Haven’t had a single problem – yet. If you need a prop, carry a clipboard. Always works.
baseball bat is also useful!
Police uniform works as well they don’t need a muzzle on duty but they never bother when going Greggs for more donuts
I can’t listen to the radio much these days for all the propoganda pushed subliminally by the presenters or the adverts – makes me too angry.
I was given an Alexa recently, (though have been a bit poo poo about these for security reasons etc), but it does have benefit for music and i just say “Alexa play me music” and hey presto music with no propoganda, no presenters spouting their views, no news, no ads – works for me!
My radios got turned off in late March. Everything that is on them is POISON! I also haven’t watched any TV since then either. Everything that is on it IS POISON!
agreed! it’s all poisonous propaganda. stay well away.
if you have a twitter account complete the survey
How many people do you actually know, that died OF COVID? And I mean know, not a friend of a friend etc
*None
*One
*Two
*More
https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1293922044581744640
Oh, do relay the results of that survey.
In my case maybe I’d put down one. My chum’s brother-in-law whom I met once. He was in his mid eighties and died in a nursing home. Though I think there has to be a question mark as to whether he had the virus.
none
None
Just back from my weekly trip to Asda in Corby.
Most staff unmasked. I won’t give money to supermarkets that force their staff to damage their health and humanity.
10 unmasked customers compared to 3 last week. Similar number not wearing them properly, in 2 cases just covering the chin.
Fewer masked children
Yes it’s clear mask wearing has been on the wane over the last week or so – hence the government’s hysterical response, proposing yet more draconian punishments for the non compliant.
I get the impression that there are many technocrats and social engineers enjoying their new powers. It gives them a once in a lifetime chance to carry out behavioural experiments on the population. I also think some really enjoy getting people they dislike submitting to them.
I’ve missed that. What are the newest draconian punishments?
Increasing fines for refusing to wear a mask, up to a limit of £3000.
Good to hear that from your neck of the woods. I went to our lovely (near) normal pub the other evening. No masks to be seen anywhere on the streets, and it was busy, and certainly none in the pub! My brother who does not wear a nap, reported that more and more people have been going napless at the giant Sainsburys where he shops. Only 33 (the magic number) fines have been issued so far on TFL, but Boris want to increase the fines for persistent offenders. All starting to sound a desperate now. BTW, the government hasn’t bothered to carry out a medical risk assessment and provide proof that mask wearing will not cause harm to health. I’ve written to my MP and UK Column have tried to get a response regarding this but nothing. So I shall carry on re-mask-less (sorry!)
Good, quick, elucidation of the dangers of masks a little after 7:30
https://youtu.be/UDoP-Sgimvg
I have just watched a video on Susan Michie one of the SAGE advisors. She is fanatical about getting ‘Covid’ cases to zero so I can’t see anything other than a very bleak winter ahead. She is an outspoken communist party member and has spoken publicly about hating Boris Johnson and other senior conservatives – so I am not surprised she seems keen on destroying the economy via harsh measures! Why won’t they change some of the advisors? it’s madness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-OnxDDoF-I
How shocking that a person with a scientific credentials is so clueless: You cannot eradicate a virus.
It seems madness. I am not convinced she wouldn’t like the country in ruins – she will certainly be out campaigning for a far left government to solve the problems she has in part caused.
Why can’t you “see” her in prison, out of a job, or subject to widespread public disgust ? Gotta try harder, Darryl !
Why Aren’t We Promoting Health to Combat COVID?
It’s an unfortunate fact that health officials and pandemic response authorities, by and large, are completely ignoring the role a healthy lifestyle plays in the COVID-19 pandemic, focusing instead, almost exclusively, on the necessity for a vaccine.
According to Reuters, the U.S. government is planning to launch an “overwhelming” COVID-19 vaccine campaign come November. An unnamed “senior White House administration official” is quoted saying:
But is a vaccine really going to be the answer people are hoping for? For example, many have bought into the mainstream narrative that masks are here to stay until or unless there’s a vaccine, and getting vaccinated would mean the end to mask mandates.
Considering the fact that neither masks nor vaccines offer significant protection against the virus, chances are such hopes will get dashed. Maria Elena Bottazzi, a COVID-19 Vaccine developer at Baylor College of Medicine, recently warned that social distancing and face masks will likely still be required even after a vaccine becomes available, as the vaccine will not offer 100% protection against infection.
So, don’t be fooled. Vaccines will be in addition to what we are told to do now, not a replacement. Even Moderna’s CEO Stephanie Bancel stated that if the vaccine reaches 90% effectiveness, which is a beyond overly optimistic projection, people with high-risk health conditions will need to continue wearing masks.
In addition to not necessarily removing the “need” for masks and social distancing mandates in the future, the novel mRNA vaccines being developed against COVID-19 may also be an autoimmune disorder disaster in the making, as explained in “The Well-Known Hazards of Coronavirus Vaccines” and “Gates Tries to Justify Side Effects of Fast-Tracked Vaccine.”
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/08/14/how-should-we-combat-the-coronavirus.aspx
Good health in America only seems to be possible via Big Pharma. I believe they are the most medicated people in the developed world but also the most unhealthy.
Can’t believe so many Americans seem to believe good health comes via a needle. They should sort out their diets and do some exercise.
That’s told ’em !
The important issue is simple : a widespread dangerous infection named “Covid” does not exist.
Thus vaccines and other measures to counter it are a waste of time and space, and, as in the case of rushed, undertested vaccines, positively dangerous.
“People with high-risk health conditions will need to continue wearing masks.”
But I thought we were supposed to wear masks to protect others, not ourselves? Because we care?
Just stumbled across this from another comments board (man I get so little work done thanks to stressing endlessly about the state of the country!) but it is a truly fascinating read – a write up of what I believe is a sitting of German parliament inquiry into corona-crisis. Not sure if posted before or Toby has posted, apologies if it is old news to anyone
https://thdrussell.blogspot.com/2020/07/second-session-of-german-coronavirus.html
Great link thanks.
Never worked anywhere that sore throat or runny nose kept people away from work- in any case, those are also
the symptoms of hay fever so not a guide to anything.
Exactly – during the winter, half the workforce would be off at any one time if they stayed off with typical cold symptoms. And schools would be permanently closed. This will be a big problem this winter I think. Anyone with even the mildest symptoms will have to stay at home (and probably be forced to take The Test). Still, we can relax, because as long as it’s “just” flu they’ll be free to spread it around and infect granny like normal.
Glutathione Deficiency May Be Associated With COVID Severity
A glutathione deficiency may be at the root of severe illness, as it leads to significant oxidative stress, lung inflammation and multiorgan failure with COVID
One scientist linked glutathione deficiency with many of the comorbid conditions that raise COVID-19 severity, including age, diabetes, gender and smoking
The researcher also found data indicating that glutathione deficiency can impact your ability to synthesize vitamin D, another risk factor for severe disease
NAC supplementation, foods rich in glutathione precursors, aerobic exercise and strength training can help support healthy levels
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/08/14/glutathione-deficiency-linked-to-covid-severity.aspx
Note: N-acetylcysteine (NAC) is also an excellent add-on when trying to quit smoking or drinking
How is this relevant?
PHE reporting of COVID-19 deaths: technical summary
The conclusion from the review was that the vast majority (88%) of COVID-19 related deaths occurred within 28 days of the first positive specimen date, and that for those deaths 95% have a mention of COVID-19 on the death certificate. The proportion of deaths with a mention of COVID-19 on the certificate decreases for deaths with a longer interval between the first positive specimen and date of death; however this is 73.4% for those with an interval of 29-42 days and 48.1% for those with an interval of 43-60 days between specimen date and date of death (
On 12 August 20201 , the number of deaths in people with laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 without a time limit applied was 42,072 deaths. Applying a time limit of 60 days or COVID-19 on the death registration results in in a total of 40,404 deaths being reported; a reduction of 1668 (4%). Applying a 28-day time limit results in 36,695 deaths being reported; a reduction of 5377 (12.8%).
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/908781/Technical_Summary_PHE_Data_Series_COVID-19_Deaths_20200812.pdf
Have you guys all signed this one?;
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442
(prevent any restrictions on those who refuse a covid-19 vaccination)
Time for a re-visit …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDcpUyl6Uxk
Congrats! I had a similarly ok experience in a petrol station. Exempt badge in pocket just in case, no one commented. Guy that came in after me also unmasked.
Surely, anybody with a functioning brain can see that this isn’t about health?
I’m trying to recruit somebody from Italy and every step is getting more difficult and laborious.
I’m have a(nother) bad day
Also dress smartly even if its just a tailored shirt, trousers/skirt and comfortable but smart shoes. I do that quite a lot and some people think I’m a manager of some sort and steer clear away.
Or they think “Oh, someone assertive!” and steer clear.
Just look at them! Sickening!!
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As someone pointed out yesterday, real sheep have very expressive faces.
Did you find that you instinctively homed in on the one who’d lowered her muzzle to use the phone?
I find it a horrific sight, all the more so because I know that for whatever reason these people are masked up it is not to keep them ‘safe’.
I have not been inside a shop for three weeks now, nor will I while this madness is upon us, I hate even to see it never mind participating myself.
Me2
same here!
It is very unsettling seeing a masked population. But I suggest that LockdownSceptics have a duty, whenever possible, to get out shopping sans masks. Sets a good example. Keeps pressure on retailers. Etc.
Aaargh! Still some good stuff to catch up on here but the new Update is now online ……………………………>>>
Apologies if covered before. Who is he to be talking like this –
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-bill-gates-covid-vaccine/
Bloomberg: How confident are you we’ll have a working vaccine that can be widely distributed by the end of 2020?
Gates: Well, the initial vaccine won’t be ideal in terms of its effectiveness against sickness and transmission. It may not have a long duration, and it will mainly be used in rich countries as a stopgap measure.
We’d be lucky to have much before the end of the year. But then, in 2021, a number of other vaccines are very likely to get approved. The strongest response will probably come from the protein subunit. With so many companies working on it, we can afford quite a few failures and still have something with low cost and long duration.
[…]
For years, people have said if anti-vaxxers had lived through a pandemic, the way their grandparents did, they’d think differently. Whoops.
The two times I’ve been to the White House [since 2016], I was told I had to go listen to anti-vaxxers like Robert Kennedy Jr. So, yes, it’s ironic that people are questioning vaccines and we’re actually having to say, “Oh, my God, how else can you get out of a tragic pandemic?”
Bloomberg: Given the skepticism, should a Covid vaccine be mandatory?
Gates: Making something mandatory can often backfire. But you might say that if you’re going to work in an old-folks home or have any exposure to elderly people, it would be required.
[…]
Bloomberg: How do you think this all ends?
Gates: The innovations in therapeutics will start to cut the death rate, but the true end will come from the spread of natural infections and the vaccine giving us herd immunity. For rich countries, that will be sometime next year, ideally in the first half. We’ll get out of this by the end of 2021.
Bloomberg: So we’re going to be OK?
Gates: Certainly. We’re lucky this one wasn’t a more fatal disease.
—
There are 6 vaccines being worked on for UK alone. Yet Gates talks as he does. Acutally it’s a written interview so the words are attributed to him – indeed the questions are attributed to Bloomberg.
Who is he to be talking like this? Precisely
Wonderful, although I would have given that customer a beaming smile and said something chatty and friendly. We have to win these people over.