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[Closed] Ukraine - I Stand With Toby.

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Posts: 20
Topic starter
(@clivepinder)
Joined: 4 years ago

A Friend In Need Is A Friend Indeed.

PART ONE: A few days ago I was sitting at home breathing a sigh of relief that it looked like our village had put Covid behind us when I saw something alarming on our neighbourhood watch RING video security system. There was a gang of men surrounding our next-door neighbour’s house.

Then the phone rang. It was my neighbour Bob. “High Tom, you might have noticed we have a problem” he said. “A heavily armed group of thugs from the village down the road have surrounded us and demanded we hand over our home to them. They say they used to own the home and now want it back! We are short on guns and ammo, so would you mind sending some over?”

It occurred to me that this threat had been with us for a while, and that maybe we had been short sighted in not building better relations with the village these guys came from. Indeed, we may have miscalculated and been over aggressive in expanding our own village boundary.

Still, when a neighbour is under attack, don’t we have a moral duty to help out?

“Sure Bob” I replied. “Of course we’ll do what we can, but are you sure fighting back is a smart idea? They have more men who are better trained. Even if we send you some weapons, the strong likelihood is you’re still going to get your ass whipped and maybe even all get killed in the process. Maybe you’d be better off capitulating and trying to work out a settlement? You know, maybe give them the bottom part of your garden that leads down to the river?”

Bob replied, quickly and assertively. “Tom, I appreciate your concern for our welfare, but I’m buggered if we are going to give up without a fight and let these violent thugs take everything we have built up over the last decade. My home is my castle. Having fought so hard to get away from the shits down the road, we aren’t going to surrender.”

Bob was resolute and firm. “Alright Bob, we’re on it” I replied.

28 Replies
3 Replies
lordsnooty
(@lordsnooty)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 636
Posted by: @clivepinder

“A heavily armed group of thugs from the village down the road have surrounded us and demanded we hand over our home to them. They say they used to own the home and now want it back! We are short on guns and ammo, so would you mind sending some over?”

Sorry about your neighbour Bob, obvsly, but, but I was taught to be  bloody grateful to what you call the thugs  for the enormous help they gave in killing off Kaiser bill and Hitler. And  for liberating Majdanek, Gross-Rosen, Auschwitz, and Mauthausen and a bunch of others, it cost the Russians  a lot, that did, a hell of a lot, and it is never mentioned, not in a million years, the British government acts as if they won the war on their own, the dumb bastards.

 

 

 

 

lordsnooty
(@lordsnooty)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 636
Posted by: @clivepinder

A Friend In Need Is A Friend Indeed.

 

 

The truth, a friend in need who brought on his own troubles by his own stupid pig headed ignorance overconfidence and laziness  is a bloody drag.

lordsnooty
(@lordsnooty)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 636
Posted by: @clivepinder

There was a gang of men surrounding our next-door neighbour’s house.

 

Which a thugs are they Clive, the NATO gang? (which is using Ukraine to advance US policy overseas) or Russia, they sound like the same US thugs that caused endless problems in Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Somalia, Libya and Syria, those Americans  need sorting out, good and proper. Whatever they do they set fire to towns and cities, what can we do to get rid of the bastards?

 

 

Posts: 20
Topic starter
(@clivepinder)
Joined: 4 years ago

PART TWO: “Thanks Tom. While you’re at it, could you also put some economic pressure on the village these thugs have come from. Make sure that they struggle to finance and feed these bandits. It might not make much a difference in the long run, but it will make it harder for them. Who knows, maybe the rest of their village will have second thoughts about their aggression? We know their Mayor isn’t the most popular guy, and maybe they’ll turn on him.”

That didn’t seem an unreasonable request. It would mean a little hardship for us, but nothing we can’t handle. After all, a neighbour in need is a Neigbour indeed!

As Bob hung up, he left me with some parting words. “Every little bit of help and hope helps Tom. We are just not willing to roll over and let these bastards win. Frankly we’d rather die defending our home and our honor.”

It was hard to argue with that, although I was sure some of others in our neighbourhood watch group would still play armchair quarterback. Hindsight is a wonderful luxury to have, but Bob and his family were under attack and had asked for our help. They knew the risk and wanted to take it. So we started getting some arms over the fence and had everyone else in our group boycott the village down the road.

As we sit here today there doesn’t seem to be any sign of the attackers retreating. Indeed, the signs are ominous. Yet Bob’s family are defending their home valiantly. Despite the minority of naysayers, we stand ready to do what we can, short of actually putting our own families in harm’s way.

Posts: 20
Topic starter
(@clivepinder)
Joined: 4 years ago

PART 3: What has surprised me most are the keyboard warriors who want to undermine not just our efforts to help, but are dismissive of the spirit and will of Bob and his family. Not to mention that their willingness to subjugate Bob’s home while giving the thugs a propaganda boost.

Apart from rehashing all the mistakes that we made in the build up to this attack on our neighbour, they are also questioning why, if we’re helping our immediate neighbour why we aren’t also being equally supportive and magnanimous to people under attack on the other side of the world. Personally I don’t think ‘whataboutism’ is appropriate when your next-door neighbour is under attack.

There will be a time and a place for such Monday morning analysis. Now is not that time.

I have no idea how this will play out and I fear that Bob and his family will not prevail. However, it was their decision to defend their home with everything they have. Who are we to second guess that decision? Especially as we too have been so vocal in establishing our right to self-determination during the pandemic and taking back our sovereignty during the Brexit row.

Whatever happens, we will know that we didn’t just look the other way during Bob’s time of need. Nor did we give the thugs from the village down the road and their despotic Mayor any succor, nor excuse their violent aggression.

Once this is over perhaps we can come up with a better strategy for dealing with the neighbouring village.

We’ll also still be standing ready to help when the time comes to help Bob and his family rebuild their home.

And that time will come.

17 Replies
lordsnooty
(@lordsnooty)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 636

Thanks, Clive, good 'keyboard warrior' work, what  could help is truth from our shitty government and media. 

whataboutism seems inappropriate once a fight  has started , look at the Falklands war or Iraq ,  animosities usually build over  many encounters and decades. A strategy that is bound to fail is to act as  if  geopolitics is a morality play, like  a game of Robin Hood versus the Sheriff of Nottingham, it's a great story for the children.

In real life, Putin is not the sheriff of Nottingham and Zelensky is not Robin Hood and the Azov Battalion are not merry men! In the real world, there are no perpetual friends or enemies, only perpetual interests. As  a boy, I was expected want to kill Germans. Ukraine's present interests are not the same as Russia's, so they  either need to find a way to reconcile them in a satisfactory manner or prepare for an eventual war.

btw: Is your village  called Wakely in the Cornish moorland?If so, there's already a film about the  violence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_Dogs_(1971_film)

I'm glad I live near Chester. We are civilized in comparison to your benighted region of Britain, a famously warlike nation that  has fought and defeated every significant power on earth and most of the insignificant ones.

I wish everywhere could be more civilized. You should sell your place while you can still get something for it and move to Chester, I would not mention Bob, the quarrelsome neighbor or the boys of Wakely  on RightMove , if I were you. Did Bob  try much to reconcile his  differences with the Wakely boys? 

Being a border city, Chester has survived many wars and invasions, from the armies of Caesar (where the city gets its name chester=Caesar, in Welsh: Caer), the welsh were finally surrounded  by the English Edward 1st's  Ring of Iron, we call the English saesneg (Saxons )to this  day.So civilized behavior takes a long time to nurture, it eventually usually occurs, but we must stop the war and give peace a chance. Putin's Russia, btw is rehashing Edwards plan by building a ring of Iron around Eastern Ukraine, if it worked in Wales perhaps it might work in Ukraine?

And other sieges of Chester occurred by Welsh raiders  up to Cromwell's roundheads. There have been many sieges like the one at Kiev. Chester somehow survived, other Roman cities, such as Wroxeter, no longer exist except as ruins. The famous Roman walls of Caer  carry the marks  of cannon balls. This  is the way of the world, I'm afraid.

 

1646599045-war.png
(@stop-believing-start-thinking)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 202

@lordsnooty 

The good people of "near Chester" would be vary ashamed of you.

Why don't you put up a Russian flag outside your house, so they can see what you stand for?

(@stop-believing-start-thinking)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 202

@clivepinder 

Interesting point on the EU.

When the EU invades the UK in opposition to the UK's stupid decision to leave the EU, the sceptics here will be compelled by their current logic to back the EU.

 

lordsnooty
(@lordsnooty)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 636
Posted by: @leek

@clivepinder 

the UK's stupid decision to leave the EU

You have a very bad poker face .. I kinda knew you hated any real democracy. You just can't stand it when common people are allowed to decide their own future. You'll just have to learn to suck it up, because now WE are in charge and the leeks and Clive Pinders of this world will have to make do as best they can, because we have stifled their lies and hogwash. Common people know what is best for them,  think about it  for a bit... Take as long as you like since I expect you both think slow... The EU is welcome to Ukraine, and its people. As long as they don't come here, why would I care? Think it through...

(@stop-believing-start-thinking)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 202

@lordsnooty 

Interesting to see some variation in your nastiness.

Perhaps it is because Ukraine wants to join the EU that makes you hate them so much.

Now you are saying no to the refugees, that you are so keen for Russia to create.

Who is WE in this context? You have used it to describe the Russian invading forces, of which you approve so much.

 

lordsnooty
(@lordsnooty)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 636
Posted by: @lordsnooty
Posted by: @leek

@clivepinder 

the UK's stupid decision to leave the EU

YWE are in charge and the leeks and Clive Pinders of this world will have to make do as best they can, 

Cheers, but here's the bottom line signed from the very top of the tree! You never really had any chance.

We got NATO  i.e.  EU/US/UK good and proper now by the short and curlies. Really Nice and tight. It's immensely satisfying to see at long last . And there is no way we'll let it go now in a million years .You're only way out for the west is to  back off very nice and slow, keep smiling . Else we 'll yank those short and Curlies, Globalism is done. We  have put up a Ring of Iron around east Ukraine, That is our  property now, and you have not even seen China yet, you blinked once the chips were down, we won, our finger can press the button, yours is paralysed by selfish fear, hence your day is well and truly over , now get smart, and back the hell off, while you still can.

(@stop-believing-start-thinking)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 202

@lordsnooty 

Well there is no democracy on your beloved Russia, is there.

 

lordsnooty
(@lordsnooty)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 636
Posted by: @leek

@clivepinder 

the UK's stupid decision to leave the EU,

yes, you seem to have forgotten about a little thing we call democracy. Most  of the locals in my district, (one stop from Chester ) feel that Eastern Europe invaded the UK years ago, that's why once  they were asked they ganged up and put a total stop to it forever. As Russia is doing to the Ukraine. Enough is quite enough, thanks.

The neocon liberal  left are now scratching in the dirt as you are , good riddance to bad rubbish.

(@stop-believing-start-thinking)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 202

@lordsnooty 

Ah, so it is your hatred of Eastern Europeans that is driving your enthusiasm for Russia's killing.

If he pushes on and occupies more of eastern Europe, lost of them may need to come and live in "one stop from Chester". Something of an own goal for you.

Incidentally, "one stop from Chester" has very little in the way of immigration, so your fear and lothing comes from ignorance.

lordsnooty
(@lordsnooty)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 636
Posted by: @leek

very little in the way of immigration, 

 

Is more than made up for by your over active Imagination, get back to wringing your hands, while I support practical ways to end this nightmare.

 

(@stop-believing-start-thinking)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 202

@lordsnooty 

Have you moved from being an invasion supporter and apologist to a peace negotiator?

Your "we" has shifted again.

So what specifically are you supporting, in terms of practical paths to a resolution?

lordsnooty
(@lordsnooty)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 636
Posted by: @leek

@lordsnooty 

So what specifically are you supporting, in terms of practical paths to a resolution?

 That's more like it...you've finally asked a question that is not childish. There's a slow way and a fast way, which way would you like? 

  • In the slow way, you'll have Russian Tanks on your lawn for 30 years or more.  NATO via America Will Continue its low level hostility to Russia indefinitely since it is vital to the US industrial-military-complex to prolong the hostility to/Paranoia about  Russia to which American arms firms are addicted !  The  Cold War re-starts and lasts, say 30 years with an unknown end point . Perhaps Putin will die or fire his nukes, there is no way to know who or what you will get once he's gone.  
  • Fast is better.In the fast way, this ends in a Spring cease fire , with Minsk II as the basis . Ukraine respects the 2014 Donbas status referendums where it is said 94–98% of those who voted did so for separation. And Ukraine respects the Crimea referendum where 97% voted to  join the Russian Federation as a federal part  of Russia. And Ukraine promises to remain neutral wrt " the west", i.e.
  • NATO winds its neck in.
(@stop-believing-start-thinking)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 202

@lordsnooty 

But in reality its annexation of Ukraine by Russia that you want, isn't it?

(@stop-believing-start-thinking)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 202

@lordsnooty 

Have you forgotten your prior words...?

"Cheers, but here's the bottom line signed from the very top of the tree! You never really had any chance.

We got NATO  i.e.  EU/US/UK good and proper now by the short and curlies. Really Nice and tight. It's immensely satisfying to see at long last . And there is no way we'll let it go now in a million years .You're only way out for the west is to  back off very nice and slow, keep smiling . Else we 'll yank those short and Curlies, Globalism is done. We  have put up a Ring of Iron around east Ukraine, That is our  property now, and you have not even seen China yet, you blinked once the chips were down, we won, our finger can press the button, yours is paralysed by selfish fear, hence your day is well and truly over , now get smart, and back the hell off, while you still can."

(@stop-believing-start-thinking)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 202

@lordsnooty 

How does this approach fit with your prior predictions/wishes. ....your words.....go and check

"I'm quite sure Putin intends to either

a) keep ukraine or

b) wreck it completely to ensure the West gets at best a pyrrhic victory."

Again your words.....go and check

 

lordsnooty
(@lordsnooty)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 636
Posted by: @leek

@lordsnooty 

lost of them may need to come and live in "one stop from Chester".

As ever you forget about our guiding principle,democracy.My  needs come first, they'll have to wait. I do not want vile Ukrainian nationalists stirring the shit one stop from Chester. You are welcome to as many as you want.

(@stop-believing-start-thinking)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 202

@lordsnooty 

Is that all Ukrainians that you hate? Does that explain your support for the invasion?

Posts: 20
Topic starter
(@clivepinder)
Joined: 4 years ago

Good to know LordSnooty…clever pseudonym. Next time Monty Python arrives outside the walls of Chester threatening to tear them down in search of the holy grail, we’ll know not to respond to any calls for help. We can just satisfy ourselves that we know Putin has been a very naughty boy, fart in his general direction and remind him that his mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries….and hope that the killer bunnies don’t come out to fight. 

1 Reply
lordsnooty
(@lordsnooty)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 636
Posted by: @clivepinder

Good to know LordSnooty…clever pseudonym. 

 

Thanks for your kind words. I don't stand with Toby on this, he is sticking his head in the sand, as you are. When this ends, i.e. when minsk II is settled,  Ukraine  has to live next to Russia forever as Wales had to make compromises to live next to Chester.

It would be very helpful (i.e. many lives would be saved ) if western  powers minded their own business for the time being or at least explained  their goals.What does the US or the UK hope to obtain from the endless persecution of proxy wars with our  ally Russia FFS? The US and UK were run out of town by the fucking Taliban, they cannot fight, so what is NATO  for? Hence they use these proxy wars, that is their goal, they want war. They do not care about Ukraine or Bob as you call it. They are using the place as a forum for a proxy war. That is why Toby is sticking his head in the sand, he's not a fool he know what is going on, he knows the media has been high-jacked  (again) but for the insidious reason to exploit the Ukraine to mount another cynical proxy war, the west is addicted to proxy wars in Iraq, Kosovo,  afghanistan, Syria and now the Ukraine, would the west end if there were no proxy wars for a few years FFS? 

 

 

Posts: 20
Topic starter
(@clivepinder)
Joined: 4 years ago

It never ceases to amaze me that the elite, you know the ones who prefix their names with ‘Lord’, always seem 1) to know what the ordinary folk are thinking and 2) know all the answers. Thank heavens we have these Lords & Lady’s to rely on. Otherwise who knows what would happen to us common folk?

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