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On Fact-Checkerism and the Mythology of Disinformation

by Eugyppius
15 September 2023 7:00 AM

Nobody in our corner of the internet could fail to notice the antics of those yapping bouncing frenetic chihuahuas who call themselves fact-checkers. Mostly they work in obscurity, misunderstanding internet jokes, recycling the vacuities of self-styled experts, debunking weird Twitter posts, and above all churning out prodigious walls of text filled with banalities that nobody reads. Occasionally, though, they manage to entertain us – as recently, when it emerged that BBC “disinformation specialist” and fact-checker-in-chief Marianna Spring had larded her very own CV with disinformation. Almost nothing is more amusing than finding oneself in the crosshairs of the fact-checkers, as has happened to me on at least one occasion.

My favourite checker of facts is the man-bun-sporting dimwit Pascal Siggelkow, who has been appointed top “fact finder” for the state media news service tagesschau. We last encountered Siggelkow when he mistook a noun for a verb in Seymour Hersh’s reporting, ultimately spending four amazing paragraphs debunking the thesis – unique to his own mind – that explosive seaweed destroyed Nord Stream. Before hunting facts at tagesschau, Siggelkow worked for Südwestrundfunk, another state media broadcaster, where he did daring undercover investigative reporting like snitching on “doctors who downplay Corona and issue unfounded mask exemptions”. This is really reporter-of-the-year material. In truth, we have before us here a whole genre of journalism conducted by an aggressively stupid tribe of Siggelkows, distinguished by their total lack of accomplishments, limited vision and minuscule persuasive capacities. That these small men should be entrusted with the project of policing our words is a strange thing indeed, and it suggests there is more going on in the world of fact-checking than we realise. Here, I propose to examine what is is that fact-checkers really do, and whether there is anything to say about them beyond the obvious fact that they are complete and utter idiots.

To explore fact-checking more concretely, I have ventured into the barren wastelands of the tagesschau ‘Fact Finder’ page, where Siggelkow plies his trade and few before me have ever set foot. I’ve selected, mostly at random, a limited corpus of 11 recent discourse-policing items for closer analysis. I offer links to each of them below, in chronological order, providing their headlines and teasers in translation, together with sample quotations to give you an idea. This is a tiresome read indeed, so please skip ahead unless you are of particularly strong constitution.


1. ‘Why is excess mortality so high?‘, by Pascal Siggelkow and Alexander Steininger

November 28th 2022

In 2022, an unusually high number of people have died so far in relation to previous years. October in particular was an outlier. According to experts, this cannot be explained by Corona alone.

“As a scientist, I want to be open to all possibilities, but I just don’t see the connection [to vaccination],” [said Jonas Schöley, Research Associate in the Department of Population Health at the Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research in Rostock]. Additionally, he said, the scientific evidence evaluating vaccines is much stronger than that available in population research. “We don’t have to rely on the error-prone search for causes in population data because of the very good body of studies on the efficacy and risks of vaccination.” If the vaccines led to an increased number of deaths, this would have been proven long ago in medical and epidemiological research.

2. ‘A flood of fake videos and pictures‘, by Carla Reveland and Pascal Siggelkow

July 3rd 2023

In connection to the riots in France, numerous pictures and videos are being shared on social media. Many of them are not from the current protests, but are disinformation.

In right-wing extremist and conspiracy-theorist Telegram channels, posts containing the term “France” have seen marked increase since the end of June … The Austrian right-wing alternative channel AUF1, for example, speaks of “ethno-riots” and a “bloody multicultural illusion.”

“Whenever there are topics that lend themselves to populist or right-wing extremist instrumentalisation, they are used,” [Pia] Lamberty, [Social Psychologist and Executive Director of the Center for Monitoring, Analysis and Strategy] says … This could be current political debates such as the topic of heat pumps, crises such as climate, Corona, economic tensions, or even riots such as in France. “Such attempts at instrumentalisation are not always successful across society as a whole, but for supporters of right-wing extremist ideologies they are often an additional confirmation of their own world views.”

3. ‘Doubts about the significance of the AfD “Einzelfallticker”‘ by Carla Reveland and Pascal Siggelkow

July 3rd 2023

With their “isolated case ticker,” the AfD purports to show the alleged “true extent” of crimes committed by migrants. But a random sample shows that in half of the cases, reports do not indicate the origin of the suspect.

In response to a request from ARD-Factfinder, the AfD writes that it is “interested in transparency regarding the official figures from the police crime statistics in 2022”. Pia Lamberty, social psychologist and Managing Director of the Center for Monitoring, Analysis and Strategy… sees things differently. Launching a ticker with the intention of pointing out the danger posed by people considered to be non-Germans by the AfD by no means accords with the “role of an objective informer”. “This is the opposite of an open investigation and the opposite of objectivity,” says Lamberty.

4. ‘How credible is the information on the [Ukrainian] counter-offensive?‘, by Pascal Siggelkow

July 7th 2023

Ukraine’s counteroffensive to liberate territory occupied by Russia has been underway since June. Because Ukraine is keeping a low information profile, and the media often rely on Russian information. Experts are sceptical about this.

The fact that information on the counteroffensive comes primarily from Russia is due to the fact that Ukraine has mostly imposed a news blackout. The Russian Defence Ministry is trying to exploit this situation, says Julia Smirnova, Senior Researcher at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue in Germany (ISD). “This is a focus of Russian propaganda, and the numbers that are given are often massively exaggerated.” The Russian Defence Ministry is therefore not credible, she said.

The Dutch open source intelligence website (OSINT) Oryx wrote on Twitter of a total of six tanks abandoned in Zaporizhia oblast, including one Leopard tank, four Bradleys and one mine-clearing tank. ‘Left behind’ however is not synonymous with ‘destroyed’. In total, according to Oryx’s research, eight of Ukraine’s Leopard tanks have been destroyed or damaged so far since the Russian invasion began.

5. ‘Increased agitation against queer people‘, by Carla Reveland and Pascal Siggelkow

July 17th 2023

Whether it’s about homosexuals, drag queens or trans people: Disinformation about queer people is omnipresent in social networks. Experts believe this can have devastating consequences.

Trans people are particularly targeted by disinformation, says Kerstin Thost, Press Officer of the Lesbian and Gay Association in Germany (LSVD). “In the past months around the debate on the Self-Determination Act [which would make it possible for Germans to change their official gender and first names], we have seen an increased attack on trans people in particular, not only in Germany but also internationally. There has been an increased mobilisation of hatred, agitation and demonisation against LGBTQI*.” LGBTIQ* stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex and queer people.

6. ‘Who finances the welfare state?‘, by Pascal Siggelkow

July 26th 2023

It’s said time and again on the internet that 15 million people keep Germany running. The reference is to ‘net taxpayers’, who pay more taxes than they receive in benefits. Experts, however, believe that this figure is wrong.

The figure of 15 million “net taxpayers” is justified… in this way: Of the approximately 46 million employed people in Germany, 27 million paid more taxes and contributions than they received in state benefits. Of these, however, 12 million are ‘directly or indirectly dependent on the state’, since they are paid by taxes… for example, as state employees. Thus… 15 million ‘net taxpayers’ keep the system running.

Stefan Bach, a researcher… at the German Institute for Economic Research (DIW), believes this calculation is incomplete. … “Basically, state taxes and levies are offset by services without which the modern economy cannot function either.” …

Social contributions such as unemployment insurance or health insurance should also be considered separately. … The calculation holds that all pensioners are recipients of benefits [and] ignores the fact that the status of net tax payer and recipient changes… in the course of one’s life.

7. ‘Local weather phenomena do not refute climate change‘, by Carla Reveland and Pascal Siggelkow

August 10th 2023

The last two weeks of July in Germany were cold and wet. Some use this fact to play down climate change. But experts believe this is wrong.

Kevin Sieck from the Climate Service Centre… believes that temporary local weather does not support arguments about climate change: “Robust statements about climate trends can only be obtained by looking at several decades,” says Sieck. “A rainy July in Germany doesn’t say anything about long-term trends.” It is therefore the long-term developments that are relevant when assessing trends in the climate.

Karsten Schwanke, meteorologist and ARD weather presenter, agrees: “There will always be very changeable summers.” But there is a clear tendency towards warmer summers with larger upward swings. “We see a tendency for heat waves to become longer. And we are currently getting heat waves that we definitely didn’t see 50 years ago. We’re also getting more droughts, especially in the summer.”

8. ‘How China regards the Russian invasion‘, by Carla Reveland and Pascal Siggelkow

August 21st 2023

In the Russian war of aggression against Ukraine, China is trying to position itself as a mediator. At the same time, the U.S. and NATO are portrayed as warmongers. Is China neutral?

“China stands for peace while the U.S. prevents the peace process”, “The actions of U.S.-led NATO have pushed Russia-Ukraine tensions to their peak” or “Ukrainian ‘neo-Nazis’ have opened fire on Chinese students”. These are all statements made by Chinese state media or Government officials in relation to the Russian war of aggression in Ukraine.

Although Beijing claims to be a neutral actor that respects the “sovereignty and territorial integrity of all nations,” China has provided “rhetorical backing” to the Kremlin, according to a study by the U.S.-based German Marshal Fund. “Chinese officials and state media have openly supported and promoted Kremlin-friendly accounts of the war.”

9. ‘Why the record debt is not much to write home about‘, by Pascal Siggelkow

September 7th 2023

Germany’s national debt is at a record high, many media reported. From a purely nominal point of view, this is true, but from the point of view of experts, this is not very meaningful.

Martin Beznoska, Senior Economist for Financial and Fiscal Policy at the Institute for the German Economy (IW) points out [that] a more suitable parameter for assessing a country’s debt is… the debt-to-GDP ratio. “The debt-to-GDP ratio is a better indicator because it puts the debt in relation to the potential that the state has in terms of revenue-generating capacity,” Beznoska says.

The debt-to-GDP ratio relates government debt to nominal gross domestic product. For Germany, the debt-to-GDP ratio was 66.3% in 2022. This means that the total debt was 66.3% of the gross domestic product. Compared to the two previous years, the debt-to-GDP ratio in Germany has thus improved: in 2020 it was 68.7%, in 2021 69.3%. Before the outbreak of the Corona pandemic, however, it was still 59.6%.

10. ‘Spahn’s dubious figures‘, by Pascal Siggelkow

September 1st 2023

Vice chairman of the CDU/CSU parliamentary faction Spahn has criticised the planned increase in unemployment benefits. He said this would mean that a family of four would receive on average as much as an average-income family. But this is not true.

Planned increases to unemployment benefits next year have caused heated debeated. The CDU/CSU have complained that the changes will raise benefits higher than the wages of many employees. Vice chairman of the CDU/CSU parliamentary facation Jens Spahn said this sent the wrong signal. Even now, a family of four are entitled to an average of €2,311 a month, which he said is as much as an average-income family in Germany. But this is not quite correct.

According to the Federal Statistical Office (Destatis), couples with two children had an average net household income of €5,490 in 2018. This is significantly more than the €2,311 Spahn claimed. The gross household income was €7,435.

11. ‘Fake videos and conspiracy claims‘, by Pascal Siggelkow

September 11th 2023

Many false images and videos are circulating on social media about the devastating earthquake in Morocco that killed more than 2,000 people. Some of them are linked to well-known conspiracy narratives.

A look at the recent past shows that disinformation is often deliberately spread after natural disasters. In the case of the fires in Hawaii in August as well as the devastating earthquake in Turkey and Syria in February, videos were circulated that were supposed to show evidence of absurd causes.

In the case of earthquakes, the USA is often portrayed as the alleged cause – with their High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP). HAARP is a research programme of the University of Alaska in the USA that has been in existence for decades. The aim is to research the upper atmosphere – the ionosphere – and also the propagation of radio waves. Radio waves are used for this purpose.


Now, as projects go, debunking the debunkers does not appeal to me very much, but we must get some read on Siggelkow’s accuracy and reliability. Remember that he should be almost totally right almost all of the time. After all, he or his managers choose what to debunk, so the very least we can expect of them is the judicious selection of easy targets. Alas, the only clean victory I can grant our Fact Enthusiast is 11), on the Moroccan earthquake. Few will believe this was caused by the American HAARP research programme, but it’s hard to know how many tagesschau fans needed to hear this in the first place.

Remarkably, in various of these pieces, Siggelkow doesn’t seem to be clearly debunking anything: 1) on excess mortality tries to head off the dark conclusions of vaccine sceptics, but can only manage this very weakly, while 4) on the Ukraine offensive and 8) on China’s pro-Russia stance merely offer helpings of reheated NATO propaganda to counter news and opinions from unapproved foreign sources. Also in this category is 5), which swipes at two pieces of allegedly anti-LGTBQ misinformation, but cannot clearly refute either of them, and beyond that offers little more than unsubstantiated hand-wringing about the violence and threats which gender minorities face.

Otherwise, we see a mix of disingenuous approaches, perhaps illustrated best by 7) on the fact that cool and rainy weather doesn’t refute climate change. While this is certainly true, the mainstream media – including tagesschau – have been confusing climate for weather deliberately in service of their environmentalist polemic for years. If hot summer days can indicate climate change, then cool summer days can contraindicate it, and if the press doesn’t like people making the latter argument, they should stop making the former one. Number 6), on the precarious German welfare state, which allegedly depends on a mere 15 million net taxpayers to cover its liabilities, also belongs here. By selectively excluding entitlements – above all, pensions – you can make this figure more favourable, and if you want to count households instead of individuals things might look better too, but these prevarications and qualifications miss the point. As an objective matter, the German pension system faces collapse in the face of the retirement wave and demographic decline. Much the same applies to 9): it’s true that German debt is at a record high only in nominal terms, but even the debt-to-GDP ratio which Siggelkow’s experts prefer paints an uncomfortable picture of Government extravagance since the pandemic.

Particularly in these last two cases, we see Siggelkow reaching for a tactic that these complex cases don’t allow him to exercise fully. We might call this The Debunking of the Part to Discredit the Whole. This is the main stock-in-trade of fact checkers in general; indeed, it is baked into the very premise of their profession. It consists in leveraging a quite irrelevant but well-grounded objection for the purposes of casting a pall over broader arguments that the checkers would prefer not to assail, because the rest of the facts to be checked don’t run in their favour. Thus 2) denounces fake French riot videos on social media as a means of playing down, however implicitly, the very real violence which broke out in the wake of Nahel Merzouk’s killing, while 3) on the AfD Einzelfallticker ends up (after no little special pleading) actually confirming that migrants commit crime at higher rates than native Germans, while merely questioning migrant involvement in many of the catalogued cases. Also in this category is 10): While Jens Spahn obviously understated the average income of the four-person German household, his broader argument – that in certain circumstances entitlements can exceed wages and are rising at a faster rate than income – appears to be totally correct.


You need read only a few of these exercises in ideological masturbation to find the primary explanation for fact-checker mediocrity. People like Siggelkow can afford to be stupid, because they’re not actually paid to think about anything. As a fact-checker, Siggelkow’s job consists mostly of calling up various “experts” and writing down what they tell him. Even this may overstate his agency, as very often I expect that it is the “experts” who call up Siggelkow and provide him with pre-digested material to print, but of course this is hard to prove. In those cases where Siggelkow interviews primarily midlevel academics not obviously connected to any advocacy groups, we might presume the reporting reflects his own initiative. Quite often, however, his sources hail from highly politicised think-tanks and NGOs, and in these instances I think we’re justified in suspecting he’s acting as a mere conduit.

Three of our 11 articles (2, 3 and 11) draw on the alleged expertise of the Centre for Monitoring, Analysis and Strategy (CeMAS), a “non-profit extremism monitoring agency founded in 2021”. Their heavy representation in my 11-article corpus is no accident; CeMAS and other anti-extremism NGOs are a major pillar of Siggelkow’s production. Sometimes they crop up even where you wouldn’t expect them, as in 4) on the Ukrainian counteroffensive, which features a prominent quote on “Russian propaganda” from the Institute for Strategic Dialogue – a “think and do tank” (heavens preserve us) which concerns itself with “digital regulation, disinformation, extremism and digital civic education”.

Siggelkow’s forays into economic matters are rarer, but in our exploratory corpus, the Institut der Deutschen Wirtschaft (IW) plays an outsized role. This is an old progressive liberal operation that advocates redistributive economic policies. IW experts help Siggelkow defend the welfare state in 6) and play down German national debt in 9). Curiously, when it comes time to defend NATO, Siggelkow’s bench of personal informants runs a bit thinner, perhaps reflecting the fact that the Ukraine war has ceased to be a major focus of state media coverage. Thus for 8), Siggelkow performs no expert interview, and rips instead from a piece published by the German Marshall Fund, an Atlanticist think-tank whose name he misspells. In 4) on the Ukrainian counteroffensive, his major source is somebody with a Master’s degree in ‘East Asian Economy and Society’ from the small think-tank-cum-consultancy-operation known as the Austrian Institute for European and Security Policy. This is a small den of Atlanticist Europhiles who are still awaiting the day when they will get their own Wikipedia page.

A broader survey of Siggelkow’s output, extending to the beginning of this year, reveals a split focus between the Russian war on the one hand, and identity politics and mass migration on the other. Somewhat surprisingly, climate topics have a mostly supporting role, and he thematises Covid and the vaccines only occasionally. The recent economic pieces are outliers.


The null hypothesis of the fact-checking industry would be something like this: “Threatened by the rise of alternative internet media, the establishment press have cultivated various discourse-policing operations to reclaim objectivity and reliability as their exclusive province.” In Siggelkow’s output, we certainly find much to support this view. It is the reason, for example, that he is so fond of writing about social media “misinformation” and internet “conspiracy theories”. The internet is a dangerous world of lies and disinformation, from which only the friendly tagesschau and their intrepid finders of facts can save you. This is basically his attitude, but as theses go, the null hypothesis is far too broad.

It cannot explain Siggelkow’s great selectivity, for example. There are absolute mountains of absurdity on the internet that he totally ignores, while often venturing into overtly political territory to fact-check the inconvenient arguments of the political opposition, which don’t involve social media at all. At the same time, the governing parties – especially the Greens – attract almost no Siggelkowian scrutiny, despite their long history of absurdly false statements. Fact-checking is clearly an enterprise devoted towards furthering a very specific political programme under the false cover of objectivity. This programme is directed primarily against “Right-wing extremism”, particularly in its post-2015 incarnation. Secondary fronts directed at opponents of the war, climate change sceptics and the establishment CDU/CSU opposition emerge as the news cycle lends them relevance. Siggelkow, in other words, is quite plainly a propagandist who finds facts on behalf of the Scholz Government, and in this he is funded by mandatory licence fees levied from every German household.

That Siggelkow so often strays from his stated mission to correct falsehoods and publishes many pieces not clearly directed against any notional misinformation, merely reveals the tendency of the ideological mission to overwhelm tactical fact-finding entirely. Siggelkow is a conduit via which the preformulated output of regime-adjacent advocacy groups can find their way into the press and talk back to their critics even in the absence of any specific occasion for them to do so.

Siggelkow also has a broader purpose, independent of his rearguard actions on behalf of the regime. This is the construction of a mythology which binds the political Right to internet ‘conspiracy theorising’. His implicit polemic is not merely that legacy media like tagesschau have a lock on objective and reliable information, but that political views opposed to those which prevail among state media journalists arise from ignorance, disinformation and general internet insanity. The facts are on the side of the progressive liberals who steer the German state, and the only people opposed to them are online idiots who believe that secret U.S. Government programmes cause earthquakes.

While Siggelkow’s tricks are both tiresome and transparent, fact checking is anything but easy. His steady stream of but-ackshually-bro bothering depends like all other heavily politicised press reporting on the support of a dense web of NGOs, think tanks and other advocacy groups. Where these are lacking, for example in novel areas like Corona, Siggelkow really struggles. The great algal blooming of pro-Atlanticist ‘open-source intelligence’ posters after the outbreak of war in Ukraine reflects an effort to supply the Siggelkows of the press with recycle-able content. Like everything else in our present, diffuse system of regime power and propaganda, the ideological behemoth moves slowly and struggles to react to new problems.

Ultimately, the significance of the fact-finders is obscure; it’s hard to believe Siggelkow has many readers. The lack of interest his tedious schoolmarmery attracts is probably one reason his ilk are so over-represented in state media operations, where nobody need worry about producing content that is profitable. His writing is dry and unpersuasive; at most, it is a kind of choir-preaching that reassures the tagesschau audience that their views are grounded in facts, logic and science, and anyone who disagrees is a dangerous internet manic, or perhaps even a Russian.

This piece originally appeared on Eugyppius’s Substack newsletter. You can subscribe here.

Tags: CensorshipDisinformationFact checkFact-checkersGermany

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10 Comments
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peyrole
peyrole
4 years ago

Heil Johnson!

35
0
iane
iane
4 years ago
Reply to  peyrole

Well, yes, but remember there is only one true god: and He resides in heaven No 10!

8
0
Richard Austin
Richard Austin
4 years ago
Reply to  iane

Possibly God is actually Goddess Nut Nuts?

3
0
Tillysmum
Tillysmum
4 years ago
Reply to  Richard Austin

That woman has a lt to answer for.

1
0
RickH
RickH
4 years ago

No comment is needed to diagnose the sickness. It’s called a ‘police state’.

52
0
awildgoose
awildgoose
4 years ago
Reply to  RickH

This is straight from the North Korea and USSR playbooks.

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James Kreis
James Kreis
4 years ago

Meanwhile in big, bad authoritarian Russia where traditional family values are still encouraged and vaccination is a matter of personal choice, their magnificent churches are full with Easter worshippers.

70
0
Epi
Epi
4 years ago
Reply to  James Kreis

Always wanted to go to St Petersburg

5
0
Cecil B
Cecil B
4 years ago

The police did the same in our mosque

17
-2
Londo Mollari
Londo Mollari
4 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

They wouldn’t dare do that to a mosque.

15
0
jcd
jcd
4 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

Which one was that?

6
0
Tenchy
Tenchy
4 years ago

After recent events I thought the police couldn’t sink any lower, but clearly they can.

61
0
Waldorf
Waldorf
4 years ago

We may be getting into the terrain of underground churches developing.

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0
MikeAustin
MikeAustin
4 years ago
Reply to  Waldorf

That would be secure encryption.

8
0
Ken Garoo
Ken Garoo
4 years ago
Reply to  MikeAustin

That’s the key to it.

0
0
Monro
Monro
4 years ago

Each individual who has failed to inform themselves of the facts and slavishly followed the grosser reich ordnungs is complicit in this grotesque fascism…….

Last edited 4 years ago by Monro
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MikeAustin
MikeAustin
4 years ago

Matthew 18:20. “For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.” How much more so with a congregation.
Dare I put words into Jesus Christ’s mouth: “For where two or three move to stop gatherings in my name, there I will not be with them.”

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Stevey
Stevey
4 years ago
Reply to  MikeAustin

The church has always faced persecution. As Catholics we are used to it.

10
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RickH
RickH
4 years ago
Reply to  Stevey

The churches have done more than their fair share of persecution. As non-believers have been used to over history.

1
0
davews
davews
4 years ago

Those seated admittedly were not social distancing. Most were masked. Otherwise the service was fully legal and this is another case of the police over stepping their mark. I wish more churches opened for services instead of cowardly resorting to Zoom imitations.

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Londo Mollari
Londo Mollari
4 years ago

I hope that I would not have complied. Posting videos of this sort of nonsensne helps a person prepare for the real thing.

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karenovirus
karenovirus
4 years ago

Non story put up by The Sun on government orders but at least the Polish worshippers are putting up a fight saying no regulations were broken. Film footage auto linked to dreary Drakeford droning on about something.

Similarly Local Live (mirror group news) has lead item #6.
‘Covid house party breaches across County as neighbours call Police’
As evidence they cite Police “numerous reports of Covid breaches” before a very lengthy repetition of current lockdown regulations for which neighbours might report you if they could be arsed.

Intented to be a scare story when the real news is that people are gathering in public and at home which will hopefully encourage others to do the same.

Story is awarded the usual 223k imaginary ‘likes’ when it probably didn’t get 223k page views.

Last edited 4 years ago by karenovirus
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Martin Fleet
Martin Fleet
4 years ago

The policeman said ‘this gathering is lawful and then ‘corrected himself’ and said it is unlawful…..so he knows what he is doing and that he is in the wrong

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0
karenovirus
karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  Martin Fleet

The audio sounds edited ‘is lawful’ cut a tad too soon ?

4
0
LilyVLibre
LilyVLibre
4 years ago
Reply to  Martin Fleet

So all crime was eradicated with the introduction of Covid and mask wearing along with the flu, giving hundreds of police that we never knew existed the opportunity to earn some overtime by criminalising, abusing and harassing people just because they can.

17
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BJs Brain is Missing
BJs Brain is Missing
4 years ago

Seen enough yet?

21
0
Richy_m_99
Richy_m_99
4 years ago

And you wonder why the “Kill the Bill” movement is spreading.

The police have lost all respect of the public over the past year, and are unlikely to be able to restore any kind of respectability.

23
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Annie
Annie
4 years ago

Christ is with the persecuted. Not with the cowardly, grovelling zoombies.

16
0
LilyVLibre
LilyVLibre
4 years ago

The only religion now permitted is the Cult of Covid. Fail to kneel and off with your head! Or you could just pay a ridiculous fine!

18
0
Igol
Igol
4 years ago

Didn’t the courts establish that you don’t have to comply with PACE requirements to provide details as the Coronavirus act makes no provision for anyone to provide details?
Also there is no right of entry, so did they walk into a ‘private’ session as the church (if following the rules) presumably closed the doors and said they were no longer open?

13
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marebobowl
marebobowl
4 years ago

This action by Boris Johnson and his thugs is unforgivable. Don’t blame the police, blame him. He should step down immediately. Religious freedom is at the forefront of a democratically run country. Religious persecution has no place in this country. If this country is no longer a democracy, legally tell us what it is called. Dictatorship comes to mind. Where on earth has the Catholic Church been for the past one year? Where has this country’s civil rights attorneys been? Now look at what is happening. Please stand up for our freedoms. To the professional legal experts, solicitors, barristers, judges, your silence has been deafening

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SueJM
SueJM
4 years ago
Reply to  marebobowl

Yes…. there are many things which have no place in this country and yet here we are in just one short year. If we ever return to some form of democracy there are a lot of factions which will have to earn respect from scratch. The upside is, hopefully, many more folk will be wide awake and a truer democracy than ever before will eventually prevail. Many lessons learned. Optimistic?!

5
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Richard Austin
Richard Austin
4 years ago

Once again the Police break the law. I suggest that all Christians go to Batley Grammar School or join a BLM protest in order to worship. What kind of country are these b@stards in Government creating? I find it hard this is the party I voted for but I do not find it hard at all to know for a 100% fact I will never vote for them or the pathetic “Opposition” again.

7
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10navigator
10navigator
4 years ago

‘Police speak’ for ‘now.’———“At this moment in time.” Morons!

2
0
Alkanet
Alkanet
4 years ago

Am I the only one who’s offended that these police actually entered the altar sanctuary? I half blame the priest and congregation for not physically expelling them for this reason alone.

6
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Horsham Bren
Horsham Bren
4 years ago

The police raid of the Balham church on Good Friday, during which they suspended divine service and sent the congregation packing, was illegal under English law

Section 36 of the Offences against the Person Act 1861 is clear on this point

Despite the many statutory instruments enacted to control the current pandemic, none of these suspends the provisions of the aforementioned act, as far as I can tell

The case is almost certainly justiciable; not least by virtue of the added weight of Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights and Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. If due process is followed, the officers involved are liable to up to two years in one of Her Majesty’s hotels!

Here is the text of Section 36 of the Offences against the Person Act 1861:

Whosoever shall, by threats or force, obstruct or prevent or endeavour to obstruct or prevent, any clergyman or other minister in or from celebrating divine service or otherwise officiating in any church, chapel, meeting house, or other place of divine worship, or in or from the performance of his duty in the lawful burial of the dead in any churchyard or other burial place, or shall strike or offer any violence to, or shall, upon any civil process, or under the pretence of executing any civil process, arrest any clergyman or other minister who is engaged in, or to the knowledge of the offender is about to engage in, any of the rites or duties in this section aforesaid, or who to the knowledge of the offender shall be going to perform the same or returning from the performance thereof, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and being convicted thereof shall be liable, at the discretion of the court, to be imprisoned for any term not exceeding two years

7
0
Tillysmum
Tillysmum
4 years ago
Reply to  Horsham Bren

Who will take them to task over this bullying? If we do not it will continue and worsen.

1
0
www
www
4 years ago
Reply to  Horsham Bren

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9435037/Outraged-Polish-Catholic-worshippers-slam-police-shutting-Good-Friday-service.html ANOTHER ONE TODAY
why don’t ours fight back?

0
0
Ken Garoo
Ken Garoo
4 years ago

Pastor Pawlowski, head of a church in Calgary, had a visit from a local Karen, backed up by numerous police. This is how he dealt with it.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uTFTG_1617494852

Chapeau!

1
0

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