The Government has been warned by an eminent group of pubic figures that a conversion therapy ban is “unnecessary and will lead to significant, harmful unintended consequences”. Camilla Turner in the Telegraph has more.
A cross-party group of MPs and peers as well as psychiatrists, psychologists, doctors and consultants has written to the Prime Minister to express their “grave concerns” about his proposals.
They warn that such legislation also risks criminalising therapists who do not “unconditionally affirm” a child’s desire to transition.
The previous government had proposed banning conversion therapy but it was never implemented because of concerns that parents, teachers and therapists could be criminalised for questioning a child’s belief that they were born in the wrong body.
Labour has now resurrected these plans, with the Government earlier this month launching a new Office for Equality and Opportunity, stating that one of its “key immediate priorities” will be “delivering a full, trans-inclusive ban on conversion practices”.
The new cross-departmental body will be spearheaded by Annelise Dodds, the Equalities Minister, who has previously vowed to make it easier to change gender.
But the letter’s 140 signatories – which include Graham Stringer, a senior Labour MP, and Dr. David Bell, the former Tavistock Centre governor – warn that if such a ban goes ahead, a “slippery slope towards criminalising parents awaits us”.
They point out the “serious and harmful unintended consequences” of the plans, adding that medical interventions known as “gender-affirming transition” have been revealed as a “major medical scandal”.
Earlier this year, Dr. Hilary Cass’s landmark report into the treatment of transgender children, advised that under-18s should not be rushed into treatment which they may later regret.
The report by Dr. Cass, a paediatric consultant, called for the “unhurried” care of those under-25 who think they may be transgender, an end to the prescribing of powerful hormone drugs to under-18s and early help for primary school children who want to socially transition.
The letter, organised by James Esses, a campaigner, states that: “Whistleblowers in this field have been vindicated by recent events, such as the final report of the independent Cass Review, the NHS decision to halt the prescription of puberty blockers, the closure of the GIDS gender clinic at the Tavistock, and the revelations contained within the WPATH files, amongst other things.
“Many confused and vulnerable children who medically transitioned through puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones have suffered irreversible developmental issues, physiological damage (such as loss of bone density, infertility and sexual dysfunction) and significant social and relational harms. Those most at risk are children who do not conform to traditional sex stereotypes.”
Worth reading in full.
Stop Press: You can see a list of the letter’s signatories (including my own) here.
— James Esses (@JamesEsses) October 20, 2024
Breaking
Along with over 140 prominent signatories from across professions and political divides, I have written to @Keir_Starmer, demanding that he does not press forward with a proposed “trans-inclusive ban on conversion practices”.
Please read and share. pic.twitter.com/7snRP14Hn1
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I hope that Trump consigns that little prick to oblivion as soon as possible by any means necessary,
He is an ungrateful little pig, and if he doesn’t suck up to the Americans then the Russians will turn him into sausages and eat him for breakfast.
He is J**ish of course.
Elevated to power by his J**ish friends who own the Uke media.
A criminal, money laundering dictator.
J**lensky ran his campaign on peace and started a war, a war which was presaged by the US 2004/14 coups.
I hear the Uke dictator is good at playing the piano with his penis. About sums him up.
That is the most appalling antisemitism and shame on the two supporters. You disgust me.
I think Trump may have discovered what a giant pain in the arse Zelensky and the Ukraine are and will remain.
It is an impossible situation.
Ukraine has sucked both the US/Europe and Russia into a quagmire neither can exit. The Ukrainian leaders know this and are going to milk the situation for every billion dollars they can get.
Russia can’t back down because it will be the end of Putin in his own country. Trump can’t walk away either and let the Russians walk over Ukraine because he’ll be the guy that lost all of Ukraine.
They are both fully sucked in and Zelensky knows it, which is why he has allowed himself to behave that way. He’s literally calling the shots
No, Trump knows that Putin will not negotiate while Zelensky is in power. This is about replacing Zelensky. Though as ambushes go, this one was executed rather poorly.
Zelensky is on the take. That’s why he did nothing to help Trump expose the Biden/Burisma grift.
I thought Putin was only interested in one little corner of Ukraine, because he has never attacked the huge rest of it, as far as I can make out.
Peace deal with Putin may go ahead and be presented to Ukraine. If they refuse it and the European war mongers refuse then Trump may turn round and say “Fine, I have done my best you take ownership of the war” That would be a very sobering wake up call for the Europeans and their resistance to Trump’s peace deal may collapse quickly.
Haha, I’m psychic. Just shared this. It is epic though. I’ve always thought Zelensky resembled a hostile koala. Putin must be having a right laugh at his expense;
”Zelensky came to the White House to play games and found out he isn’t dealing with cognitively impaired Joe Biden anymore.
The United States now has a president who is going to pursue the national interest of the American people, not the reckless ambition of bellicose globalists.
Zelensky couldn’t deal with it. End of story.”
https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/1895550057035813118
Max cringe;
”Ukrainian Ambassador to the United States Oksana Markarova during the exchange between Trump and Zelensky .”
https://x.com/white_lenka/status/1895541001693118495
If you have a Twitter account here is a huge thread of videos showing Zelensky’s Nazi Goon Squads going around and finding men to force into their vehicles and take them away. They’re absolutely evil;
”JD Vance confronted Zelensky on the forceful mobilization, that is what he means!
People are mercilessly grabbed and forced I to the military.”
https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1895752927991792126
Good post;
”Modern international relations theory is based on utopian goals that are not supported by hard evidence or the lessons of history.
Whether it is neoliberal interventionism or global hegemonic stability theory or the ‘rules based order’ or world systems theory or functional interdependence or the Pentagon’s New Map or social constructivism and 5G warfare — these theories have failed to provide a guide to statecraft that advances the interests of mankind.
The neoliberal foreign policy establishment is not, as they have deluded themselves into believing, “saving the world” from “capitalism” and the “nation-state system.” World War II was horrific, but it was not caused by “capitalists,” it was caused by national socialists and fascists and communists.
Collectivism is what needs to go. Not free market capitalism and individual rights.
As for the “nation-state system,” human beings need localized representation through free and fair elections to ensure governmental accountability to the will of the people. They also need freedom to accomplish self-determined goals for their own lives in order to maximize human happiness.
The world needs divided power to lessen the damage from military conflict and to impede totalitarianism. When any governmental body obtains ultimate control, the lesson of history shows that self-interested elites abuse that power to inflict the worst atrocities in human history.
Nazi Germany. The USSR. Maoist China.
All are examples of totalitarian regimes that killed nearly a 100 million human beings because they had total control over state and society.
The foreign policy establishment needs to approach the Russia-Ukraine War as a territorial dispute between two nations that were once under the same Soviet umbrella.
This is not a “global struggle” against the nation-state system. The goal should not be to impose a “rules based order” on human civilization.
The goal should be to benefit human beings and advance international peace and prosperity.
End the war. It is in the interest of the American people. It is in the interest of the Russian people. And it is in the interest of the Ukrainian people.”
https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/1895556804941398032
At least UK politicians know when and how to grovel.
There many things attributed to Churchill that he never said but it would have been unsurprising if he had.
‘You cannot reason with a tiger when your head is in its mouth.’ Poor Zelensky has his head in Trump’s mouth and his backside in Putin’s.
‘The art of diplomacy is telling someone to go to hell in such a way that they ask for directions.’ Poor Zelensky has just left on his way there, after stopping off in the camp of the saints in London. Starmer will have to give Zelensky voice coaching in an English accent and send him back to the tiger’s lair with a letter of apology endorsed by the entire royal family.
It is pathetic because few people consider the battles between Rome and the orthodox church which are a huge factor and the battles in the mystery schools for 200 years about whether Russia or the Anglosphere will be the next centre of the path. Nasty business with this Ukraine. The movement of Christendom eastwards can’t be stopped. What does the west use the Ukrainans for, just cheap sex objects and cannon fodder. This is a terrible evil that we have done to this country over the last few years and that is before you even get on to the race-specific bioweapon factories.
Regardless of anybody’s views on the war, I don’t think Zelensky handled this well.
He kept interrupting Trump.
Maybe he’s got used to a hero’s welcome, I don’t know. But his strategy was wrong.
Trump didn’t seem to be impressed when greeting Zelensky out of the car and it was speculated that it’s because Zelensky didn’t wear a suit. Later somebody asked him that very question. And it is a reasonable observation when I think about it now because I can’t think of any other leader off the top of my head that we never ever see wearing a suit, especially in a formal setting such as this. It may seem like a non-issue to some but I don’t think it reflects terribly well on Zelensky, personally, and some might say it’s disrespectful;
”What a smug answer!
The level of arrogance is unbelievable.
There’s zero respect for the country, the office, the people or the support.
Kudos to the reporter @brianglenntv
for asking the question.”
https://x.com/patrickbetdavid/status/1895557277706568128
I agree.
Zelensky should have put a suit on. It’s OK to appear in front of your country in military gear but in front of Trump it just made him look like a poser.
I don’t doubt that Zelensky is a courageous man, indeed he could have bailed out when the war started and he didn’t. But I think three year of war and the fawning reception he usually enjoyed has gone to his head to some extent.
By the way, I don’t have any strong feelings about this conflict; the whole thing is desperately sad – it is the wrong war. I don’t like Putin but I’m not keen on Zelensky either.
Yes I don’t much like either of them, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen Putin not wearing a suit.
The most expensive suit imaginable, saville row shipped out, or maybe Armani. He can afford it. He’s filched $100bn off his fellow countrymen.
Trumps first comment when Zelensky jumped out of his limo…’Oh, I see you dressed up for the occasion.’.
It was disrespectful, and his attitude in the meeting was likewise. Although the video clips of the flare up have made the news, his ‘performance’ for the first 40 minutes was shockingly awful. I’d have kicked him out sooner.
Zelensky courageous
The word is greedy.
Another Putin useless idiot.
Appearances DO matter.
He’s a desperate man with few cards to play. It looks to me like he thought he could “bounce” Trump into continuing support, based on the visits of Le Petit Napoleon and Two-Tier-No-Idea-Keir.
He miscalculated.
Zelensky is a dead man walking.
Nah, he’ll just retire to one of his mansions in Europe, where he has plenty of expensive suits to wear, when he’s not pretending to be a military veteran.
It’s a two-horse war: a proxy war between Russia and the USA started by the USA in 2013/14 – arguably a Continuation of the Cold War. The peace can only be decided by negotiation between the two.
Russian and the USA Governments are the main dish, Ukraine Government (such as it is) is just garnish.
Zelensky doesn’t understand this.
Nations/Countries are not made by lines drawn on a map, they are made by their people. They emerge as monocultural societies bound together united, stable, peaceful, prosperous, governed by the culture.
Multiple cultures = multiple Countries: exhibit A, Planet Earth.
Ukraine is not a monoculture, it is an area that in part or whole has been part of various entities, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Austro-Hungary, Imperial Russia, Soviet Union. The consequence is it does not have a demos but a diverse population of different languages and cultures. And guess what? They don’t play nicely together. Surprise.
Russia, a previous owner, wants some of it back – specifically the bits with ethnic Russians.
Narcissist Trump talks down to coke head Zelensky.
The bottom line is that Trump will continue with the US unipolar world in a more overt way than his Democrat predecessors.
The minerals deal with Ukraine will enable the US to continue its war with Russia and eventually with China.
Trump talks peace but still wants to rule the world.
Russia will continue to “liberate” Ukraine and will offer referendums to all the “liberated” areas.
This map of Ukraine shows what Russia wants to achieve either by diplomacy or on the battlefield.
It looks like Poland is taking advantage of the situation there
In Britain you spent 80 billion pounds in two years in Ukraine. At the same time that your citizens are having to go to food banks and your old people can’t stay warm. It has always been the British way but Trump is teaching you, not any longer. No more Daily Mail child porn. No more dismissal of the chavs. He comes not to redeem the privileged or wealthy but His presence redeems everyone who is receptive.
I hope my Trump T-shirt ages well….I had the Trump 2020 hat, but these items are not so much about him, more the symbolism, the two fingers to the “liberal” despots.
At the risk of labouring the point;
‘When (Ukrainians) negotiate outside of (Ukraine), their approach often clashes with leading cultures in the West – and notably the United States, Europe and the United Kingdom.
The Western negotiation paradigm is based on sharing information; such disclosure is seen as a prerequisite for establishing an effective cooperative win-win process.
In (Ukraine), in contrast, negotiators do not want to volunteer any information.
This behaviour baffles Westerners, who expect them to share information in the spirit of both sides finding a solution.
Thus Westerners will often ask (Ukrainians) in negotiation: “Why are you behaving like this if you want to build a win-win outcome?”
While Westerners will often approach negotiations with a cooperative attitude, the (Ukrainian) businessman or politician will approach it with force and a confrontation mentality.
This difference often prevents the two sides from reaching common ground for the duration of the negotiation.’
https://embahs.skolkovo.ru/en/emba-hs/blog/culture-and-negotiations-the-russian-style/
A good summary, frankly, of that meeting.
Where, to the point, does that leave Britain?
We have no interest in Russia.
Unfortunately they are very much interested in us.
‘The Russian Federation intends to build relations with other Anglo-Saxon states depending on the degree of their willingness to abandon their unfriendly course toward Russia and to respect its legitimate interests’
https://mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/fundamental_documents/1860586/
Legitimate interests like slaughtering British citizens on British soil using banned chemical weapons, for example?
This is where Britain finds itself as a direct consequence of the grotesque mismanagement of the affairs of this country by its incompetent political class over the last thirty years.
You are kidding, aren’t you? The last point, that is.
No, Munro is correct. How are things in St Petersburg?
Don’t be so bl**dy stupid.
Why are there so many pro Putin useful idiots on this site? FFS, he is a kleptomaniac thug who wants to reestablish the borders of the Soviet Union. Zelensky is fighting for his country.
What is the point of you comment? This is a debating forum.
Who said this was a ‘debating forum’? This section is headed ‘Comments’.
Ok, Deborah. My comment is that you don’t fully understand the point of this forum. A fast moving one like GB News is the sort of platform for passing comment, this one is used by most sensible people for a civilised debate.
There is a great deal of Russian money influencing opinion directly or indirectly in this country and elsewhere.
All European countries have political organisations and their adherents who have benefited from that largesse.
Many of them are active on this site and elsewhere.
Said the Ukrainian Troll, spewing out interminable comments on this website, relentlessly focusing only on one subject, day after day after day, again…and again…and again…
What will Monro talk about when the Meatgrinder War is finished?
Said Putin’s lapdog. Can you kiss his arse from St Petersburg?
Shut up, you nasty id**t.
I’m not sure wanting an unwinnable forever war to come to an end makes anybody a Putin useful idiot. So he wants to reestablish the borders of the old Soviet Union. How is that going for him? Two more NATO countries on his doorstep, and embarrassed by Ukraine, with probably just the Russian speaking territories to show for 100s of thousands of deaths. Just about everybody wants an end to this war. The alternative is the slow death Ukraine, and possibly drawing our military into the conflict. The only people who want this war to continue are those involved in the grift, and those under their influence.
Agreed, nobody wants war. How is it going for him? Right now, badly. But if Trump gives up too much, too easily then Putin will win. He will use a hiatus to regroup and rearm. Given the chance, he can and will, occupy Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. I was in Tallinn a year ago, and they were shit scared of the Russians.
And he has made no secret of his intentions.
Only if his supporters are in some way benefitting from their support of him does that support make any sense.
Most references in support of a pro Putin position mainly cite journalists located in Russia in the pay of Russia today, RIA Novosti, Tass etc.
‘Follow the money’
Invading a NATO country would be on an entirely different level to invading Ukraine. That would be WW3 and he knows it.
These days I’m not as confident as you appear. Europe/Nato is happy to let others fight their wars, but can they step up themselves?
Nobody’s fighting Europe’s wars for others! The Ukraine-Russia Meatgrinder War has nothing to do with Britain or Europe or the West.
We have enough problems of our own, and nobody voted to send Zelensky £billions for him to stash abroad in the mansions he bought with it.
What evidence have you for that statement?
How many armoured divisions does NATO have, taking the U.S., Turkey and Poland out of the equation since they will not deploy outside of their own countries (Turkey might provide peacekeepers).
None.
So Putin doesn’t care. His paid claque (you see some of them on here) are given Russian passports. They demonstrate. There are violent clashes. Russian passport holders are injured. Little green men intervene and, bingo, the Baltic States (and a squadron of British tanks – 14) are gone…..
What is the Entente Cordiale going to do about that?
‘Aucune!’
My goodness, I’m not part of “His paid claque (you see some of them on here” but no one wins in war! It’s all very well pontificating on the internet from 1000’s of miles away about who is winning and who is losing but people are getting killed. Stuff principles, haven’t people learned about propaganda after the covid debacle? I know the answer to that sadly. The only people gaining are the recipients of the billions of £/$/€, because USAID sending money to send models to fashion weeks or artisanal tea companies isn’t helping the poor guys getting slaughtered. So negotiate.
Nope. If Trump indicates an unwillingness to defend NATO principles by giving in too easily, then Putin will roll into the Baltic states. It will take him a week. Trump is offering this route to Putin and it can only end badly.
He probably thought (or was told by his sycophants) it would take him a week when his forces launched down from Belarus to take out Kyiv and the Ukrainian leadership.All Russia has demonstrated over the past three years is the incompetence of the Russian military; land, air, and sea.
There is probably close to zero probability that Russia would invade any NATO member state.
From the West’s perspective, particularly the USA, the main goal should be to weaken the bonds between Russia and China.
I would say that Russia has nothing to fear from a land grabbing thrust from its west; but everything to fear from its east and south. China recalls how it was forced (during the Qing Dynasty) to cede parts of its territory to Russia ( Treaty of Tientsin, 1860 :‘…all land north of the Amur and east of the Ussuri would be ceded to Russia’ )
You make a very good point and one I’ve thought about a few times. If China decides to reclaim vast tracts of Siberia on the grounds that the land was historically Chinese, then Putin can hardly object. It’s the exact argument he uses to justify his invasion of Ukraine – it forms a part of the greater Rus, whatever that is.
No it is not the argument he uses.
Utter rubbish. The only possible reason for Putin to invade them is if they collude with other European countries to deny Russian access to the Baltc.
I’m no Putin fan. Both him and Zelensky are men capable and guilty of great cruelty towards their own people. But I think, if we all stop and think about it, there’s many world leaders, past and present, who are undeniably psychopathic. We could easily just take how the various leaders behaved towards their own citizens during the Scamdemic. Crimes against humanity and abuses of human rights all over the shop. Its just a different context. And for the record, I think Netenyahu is a psychopath, because I remember well how he treat his country like ‘Pfizer Nation’, and to hell with the populace and their welfare. Some countries were more authoritarian than others, if we use Sweden as a control, so there’s shed-loads out there that make the grade, as far as I’m concerned. I’ve always thought in politics it seems to help if you’re a proper psycho/sociopath. So no matter the context, many have shown and continue to show their true colours and what they’d be capable of if their country actually went to war is anyone’s guess.
How has Zelensky been “guilty of great cruelty to his own people”? The second part of your comment is pure gibberish, demonstrating an antisemitism.
Oh do bog off and give it a rest with your tedious, snarky and petulant responses on here. You can hardly accuse posters of being “Putin’s lapdogs” when you’re evidently a Zelensky fanboy. And like I’ve stated further up, I don’t like either leader because I have zero respect for dictators. Just because posters are criticising Zalensky doesn’t by default mean they’re great fans of Putin either. This isn’t the World Cup, where people pick one side to support and root for.
Lastly, I can tell you’re a newbie because if you knew the first thing about me accusing me of antisemitism is the very last thing you’d be doing. Showing your hand there, aren’t you? And do point me to said “gibberish” because evidently a fair few posters disagree with you there.
I take it you learned your outstanding powers of piercing argument and honed debate at the Oxford Union? How the contingent of Putin sycophants vote is a matter of zero interest to me. Check your last two sentences when you are sober: you’ll see they are written in gibberish with an unwarranted accusation of psychopathy.
It may have escaped your notice that you are on a site which promotes free speech, therefore to display behaviour which is intolerant, petulant and loaded with ad hominem towards other posters does inconveniently ( for you ) single you out as being quite the unpleasant little troll that you seem to demonstrate here with your posts. ”Unwarranted”, you say? Maybe crawl back under your rock until you’ve learnt to engage with other posters in a respectful fashion;
”Psychopathic traits in politicians include superficial charm, manipulability, lack of empathy and remorse, impulsivity, grandiosity, and irresponsibility. Understanding these traits helps in recognizing potentially harmful behaviors in political leaders.
Traits like charm and decisiveness can enhance a politician’s appeal, often helping them secure votes. However, these same traits may mask manipulative tendencies and ethical lapses, impacting decision-making and policy outcomes.
Electing leaders with psychopathic traits can result in prioritizing ambition over morality, potentially leading to manipulative tactics, misinformation, and policies that benefit a select few while undermining democratic principles.
Studies indicate that politicians frequently exhibit psychopathic traits, such as charm, manipulativeness, and a lack of remorse. A 2010 study published in Personality and Individual Differences found that individuals in leadership roles, including politicians, scored higher on psychopathy assessments than the general population. Another study highlighted that these traits may facilitate electoral success, as charisma and assertiveness appeal to voters. Recognizing these findings allows you to better understand the motivations driving political actions and choices.”
https://mindpsychiatrist.com/are-politicians-psychopaths/
Great riposte and good article. The fact that our ‘leaders’ can take part, encourage and support propaganda and coercion against the people they supposedly represent, to implement policies that benefit a select few, shows high propensity for psychopathic traits. As I’ve said before that the Covid debacle gave me a good ‘vaccination’ against propaganda, which stands me in good stead for the current state of affairs.
So all politicians are psychopaths? Or can you add psychiatry to your repertoire of finely-tuned debating skills and deduce that Netanyahu (another leader under permanent external threat) is one such? Contrary to your assertion, the “intolerant, petulant and loaded” comments all seem to emanate from the legions of Putin supporters.
I think Mogwai already mentioned Netanyahu as “one such” in a previous comment here, so you need to work on your Reading Comprehension Skills.
Denialism is yet another trait displayed in abundance by haters who use this platform purely to troll posters they disagree with, so I wouldn’t expect you to agree with anything I said. Also, perhaps engage functioning eyes and switch your brain on as I have already explained how Netenyahu displayed psychopathic characteristics due to his authoritarian treatment of his citizens during the scamdemic.
”Netanyahu and the Health Ministry Director General used an apocalyptic narrative to communicate COVID-19 to the public. The main strategies used in constructing this narrative were intimidation, lack of information transparency, giving the public conflicting instructions contrary to the health and risk communicating approach, and using a health crisis to promote political intentions and actions.”
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7754254/
You need to temper your manners sunshine.
A million dead and seriously injured. Doesn’t seem the action of a benefactor.
I think, if you check, you’ll find it was your chum Vladimir Vladimirovitch who killed and wounded the Ukrainians, not Zelensky.
There are two evils, or at least there has been. Russia is one, and the Biden US/EU/NATO/NeoCon is the other. Not many are ‘supporting’ Putin, but have seen through the whole business of ‘Support Ukraine’ has just been a massive money laundering scheme which VK and the west have been happy to stoke up, paid for by the young men of Ukraine in blood in some kind of perma-war.
Exactly, that’s been my opinion throughout. I don’t ‘support’ Putin and I’m not an appeaser, I could just see how this was going to make the rich richer and the poor dead. There has to be compromise in the end or we will have WW3.
I could just see how this was going to make the rich richer and the poor dead
Spot on.
No better example than WW1.
Another useless idiot for Putin. How are things in Moscow?
I venture to suggest that many of them haven’t bought the propaganda that Putin is entirely to blame for the war (ie he wasn’t provoked by EU/US/NATO actions).
I suggest they also understand Real Politik …. and Ukraine CAN’T win.
There will have to be a negotiated settlement, since this isn’t a WW2 situation and “total obliteration/threatened total obliteration in the case of Japan.” It’s a WW1 situation, where there will be a negotiated peace.
Ultimately, there will be a negotiated settlement. But it doesn’t help for the chief negotiator to hand one of the antagonists all the advantages in advance and then, appallingly, shoot down the other one on live TV. Art of the deal? Art of the squeal more like.
I still maintain that Putin has something on Trump, otherwise why would he give so much away so soon? Creative shower activities with a Moscow lady of the night are rumoured. What do you Putin acolytes think?
Most people here are not “Putin acolytes”.
We remember Navalny.
Thank goodness someone here sees it that way!
We are few and far between.
Sheriff and Deputy talking tough with a Comedian from the East.
Trouble is the serious shooting and serious slaughtering are taking place thousands of miles away in wheat and mineral country, where neighbours speak in rival tongues and rival gangs have been settling old scores for centuries.
Back East in liddle old Eurp, dudes brandishing popguns and pronouns prance around making a load of noise signifying nothing. Hard to envisage Sir Two-Tier, Corporal Micron or the next Gauleiter of Lesser Germany doing serious law-enforcement in serious sheriff’s outfits.
Even further back East, Vlad the Intractable looks on impassively, un-moved by the body count from the latest score-settling in wheat, blood and bonemeal country.
Where’s Clint Eastwood when you need him, battling on Any Which Way You Can?
My god, this is monumental!
Short, sharp, and to the point.
Yes, it is! And it’s also astonishing that Marco Rubio and US Congressman are now wheeling out the cannon to support JD Vance’s broadside for Freedom of Speech in the West.
Finally someone standing up to Slimy Stalinist Starmer and the Communist EU mob!
Democracy
Our Ukrainian friend always found it strange how this comedian had a tv show and became president in it only for this comedian to become president.Tragedy rather than comedy but will the clown have a tragical ending?
Zelensky must have thought he was still dealing with the likes of Biden and Harris.
How he must miss the old days when all he had to do was hold out his hand and uncle Joe would stuff his little piggy bank full of dollars. Those days are gone and he is throwing a tantrum.
Appalling rude, aggressive behaviour from Trump and Vance. Have they forgotten that the USA formally recognised Ukraine’s borders ? Or do agreements signed by former Presidents count for nothing? The Art of the Deal ! What a chump !
The man doing the insulting was Zelensky. The man is so dumb that he hasn’t a clue where manners are concerned. So the useless, cowardly prick deems it acceptable to turn up to a meeting that will be seen around the world wearing clothes that would be discounted even in a charity shop. He insulted the Oval Office and therefore the Office of President of the USA and by extension the American people.
I detest situations where the person pointing out a wrong is vilified as the real criminal and the original crime is ignored; deflection by any other name. The ignorant shit head deserved to be called out.
It was only a couple of years ago that Prince William and Princess Kate were directly insulted when they went fawning to a group of muzzies who refused to shake Kate’s hand – because she’s a woman. Message for the rag heads, this is our country and if you refuse to adopt British customs you don’t belong here so F O back to your Turd World shit holes.
I take your point on his choice of clothes, but it’s not like he suddenly started wearing that gear, he has been in that outfit from day one. At one point that little fascist Macron started to ruff up in a hoddie.
Putin useless idiot. How are things in Moscow?
Does Zelensky still wear high heels?
Ignorance is bliss.
Nothing really changed last night, we just got to see how the two parties have regarded each other since the US election.
Anyone know how much gas and crude oil the EU has bought from Russia since this war started? Seems that nothing will make President Trump continue to fund a futile Ukraine conflict and it’s pointless trying to change that. It will be extremely interesting to see the results of the US audit of the billions already donated by the US. The acquisition of rare earth reminds me of the race to develop the atom bomb in WW2. Why is AI so crucial to all politicians?
A lack of I?
For the first time I felt embarrassed by the behaviour of both Prez and VP. They had an agenda when they ‘invited’ Z to their turf, to be grilled and tortured in public, trying hard to get a concession from Z. Of course they are the top dogs, and Z just a small puppy in a cage, but the language and humiliating reprimand (Vance: have you thanked us once? So rude.)…. I am a supporter of Trump/Vance, but this episode shows me a different side to them. Embarrassing.
On the contrary. The situation needed blunt talks and did not get off to a good start by Zelensky’s refusal to dress appropriately. They called him out and rightly so. My view is that Trump and Vance behaved correctly. Zelensky arrived cap in hand, he was not in a position to dictate terms he was there to take orders. The priority here is to end this horrific war. Trump and Vance are trying to achieve that, the actor isn’t. As I’ve posted already, dead man walking.
Agree…whatever the rights and wrongs, whatever one feels about who exactly are the bad guys in this war, whoever ‘holds the cards’, Trump and Vance were bullying from the start. Wouldn’t let Z finish his sentences, let alone have any regard for the fact that he was trying to express himself in a foreign language. Didn’t put them in a good light at all. Disappointing.
I didn’t see the full thing, only the few minutes that are being shared widely and that people are raving about, but this person did. Not sure if anyone else that watched it in its entirety can add anything or perhaps disagrees, as I’m aware a lot comes down to one’s individual interpretation, including biases, at the end of the day;
”I watched the entire press conference with Zelensky. There was 40 minutes of discussion up to the argument. Most people saw at most the last ten minutes. The whole video gives the proper context.
When I first watched the argument without the proper context, I thought it was possible that Trump and Vance ambushed Zelensky or were even trying to humiliate him. That’s not what happened.
You had 40 minutes of calm conversation. Vance made a point that didn’t attack Zelensky and wasn’t even addressed to him, and Zelensky clearly started the argument.
In the first 40 minutes, Zelensky kept trying to go beyond what was negotiated in the deal. When Trump was asked a question, it was always “we’ll see.” Zelensky made blanket assertions that there would be no negotiating with Putin, and that Russia would pay for the war. When Trump said that it was a tragedy that people on both sides were dying, Zelensky interjected that the Russians were the invaders.
For his part, Trump made clear that the US would continue delivering military aid. All Zelensky had to do was remain calm for a few more minutes and they would’ve signed a deal.
The argument started when Trump pointed out that it would be hard to make a deal if you talk about Putin the way Zelensky does. Vance interjects to make the reasonable point that Biden called Putin names and that didn’t get us anywhere.
The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him. Throughout the press conference to that point, everyone was making their arguments directly to the audience. Zelensky decided to challenge Vance and ask him hostile questions. He went back to his point that Putin never sticks to ceasefires, once again implying that negotiations are pointless. Why on earth would you do this? Then came the fight we all saw.
Zelensky was minutes away from being home free, and he would have had the deal and new commitments from the Trump administration. The point Vance made was directed against Biden and the media, taking them to task for speaking in moralistic terms. This offended Zelensky, and that began the argument.
I’ve been a fan of Zelensky up to this point, but this showed so much incompetence, if not emotional instability, that I don’t see how he recovers from this. The relationship with the administration is broken. Ukraine should probably go with new leadership at this point.”
https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1895562922593841557
I hear you but Z should have used an interpreter. It is always difficult to argue in a foreign language that one is not fluent in.
And Z should have insisted on an interpreter. During all my life of negotiation if I want to be clear, absolutely clear with my points, I use English. If not, I employ an interpreter. Z was disadvantaged and he was shown disrespect by Trump/Vance, not the other way round. But the accuser always accuses first. I am more disappointed in Vance because I really thought here is our next statesman of the free world.
Agreed, it smacks of a setup. If Trump fails in his “negotiations” with Putin, he can always blame Zelensky. And negotiations so far consist of giving away huge parts of another country and attempting a shabby deal to extract mineral resources without any quid pro quo.
Have you watched the full coverage or just the short clips? It makes a difference.
Very bad manners to invite someone to your house then slag them off in front of the worlds’ media. Trump maybe thinks he is master of the art of the deal, but diplomacy is not in his repertoire. I cannot imagine any other President behaving so appallingly.
But Vice President Vance hit upon the crux of the matter: Zelensky’s nauseating ingratitude for all the vast amount of money, equipment and troops that the countries of the West have lavished upon him, when they can ill afford it themselves.
He just demands more and more, when the whole war has nothing to do with us.
Putin’s an evil murderer, and Zelensky is a nasty little weasel, both causing massive, unnecessary suffering and casualties among their own warriors. Let them sort it out alone, man to man in single combat.
Are you deaf? Zelensky repeatedly thanked the USA for their support. But that’s the view on the Volga, hey. How much does Putin pay you?
No, Zelensky is like a drug addict who continually asks for handouts, and no matter how much you give him, he just demands more and more, saying you aren’t doing enough or giving enough. The whole world is sick of it.
As for Putin paying anyone who criticises Zelensky, no one has forgotten Navalny, except you.
To the best of my knowledge, in over 60 years I have never received any Roubles and I think Putin is an odious, murderer but does anyone worry we, the West, are on the wrong side of history. Russia was promised no eastern expansion of NATO, it saw a friendly government in Ukraine overthrown by EU and US interference, it saw Russian speaking peoples oppressed with language and customs banned, it was about to lose its only warm water port, because an ethnic Ukrainian leader of the USSR gave part of Russia to the Ukraine and when no longer pro-Russian they withdrew from the lease of the port.
Russia learnt from the West. We bombed Iraq, because they were treating the marsh arabs poorly, we bombed Syria, we bombed Afghanistan, we bombed Libya, we were Russia’s teachers for the last 30 years, so why are we surprised at their reactions?
Russia has never invaded another country in primary aggression but over the centuries has been invaded and threatened. Are we surprised when they say this far and no further?
Spot on.
Indeed.
Superb comment, except that our western politicians refused to learn from Russia’s own debacle in Afghanistan, long before we were dragged into it.
It was a money laundering racket.
Afghanistan? Invaded by Russia. Poland? Invaded by Russia. Finland? Invaded by Russia. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania? Invaded by Russia. Another Putin useless idiot.
Disgusting exhibition by Trump.
Zelenskyy believes the actions of Ukraine during the last 10 years were nothing short of following the writ of Holy God himself. So Ukraine is absolutely above reproach. Its actions unquestionable and all blame is to be carried solely by Russia. That is why we are at an impasse.
False. God doesn’t come into it for Zelensky.
Here’s what he was doing 10 years ago:
As a Ukrainian Jewish comedian, “In 2015, he CREATED and starred in ‘Servant of the People’, a Netflix-comedy about a high school history teacher who accidentally becomes the country’s leader.”
Three years later, he went into politics. Talk about a Globalist Manchurian Candidate! The whole world is being forced to help him act out his fantasy theatrical role, and Ukrainians are paying with their blood and suffering.
Antisemetic kant
Pathetic. When are you going to start shrieking “Islamophobia!” or “Transphobia!” as well?
As was pointed out to Zelensky many times and by both Trump and Vance, having a mineral deal with the US of such a size, is a military guarantee by the US that now has vested interests in the Ukraine. Zelensky simply could not see this diplomatic solution and guarantee. Zelensky is a dictator and has been acting as an unfettered poster boy for corrupt political class in western countries. Zelensky needs to be removed and government and institutions restored in the Ukraine to save the country and it’s peoples from delusional dictatorial thugs.
Ditto Russia. Remember Navalny.
Another Putin useless idiot. How are things on the Lena?
The problem for Zelensky is he knows if there is peace he will be held to account for his behaviour, imprisoning rivals, banning political Parties, banning the Russia language, closing churches, his corruption and letting the war drag on when a peace deal was possible two years ago.
He doesn’t want peace.
In that case, Boris should also be ‘taken care of’.
What a hypocrite Zelensky is for banning the Russian language, which he speaks fluently himself!
Breitbart commenters said:
—“Ukrainian MP Oleksandr Dubinsky just called for an Emergency Session of Ukraine’s Parliament to initiate IMPEACHMENT Proceedings against President Zelensky after the Oval Office shouting match.
This NEVER gets old…”
—“I am just reading on a European news site, how the microphone caught Zelensky swearing under his breath in Russian. When he was arguing with JD Vance about not knowing what’s going on in Ukraine, Vance never visited the country. Then during Vance’s reply, Zelensky called Vance a bitch…syka in Russian under his breath.”
—“I think now his plan is to browbeat the English into feeding their soldiers into the Meatgrinder. Then use the dead bodies of English soldiers to elicit sympathy to western powers for more direct action.”
How was a peace deal possible two years ago without giving in to an aggressive invasion?
Great stuff— get out the popcorn!
I think that the former Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, General Zaluzhnyi, sacked by the envious Zelensky for becoming too popular with the troops and the public, and then moved sideways to be Ukraine’s Ambassador to the UK, would make a fine replacement for Zelensky.
But here is Two Tier welcoming Zelensky, who doesn’t interrupt him at all, and committing British Taxpayers, without obtaining our consent, to continue lavishing money and no doubt British Troops upon the weasel.
Keir Starmer reaffirms ‘unwavering determination’ to stand with Ukraine after Zelensky’s clash with Trump
In a meeting about trying to find a negotiated settlement, Zelensky lectures JD and Trump on the futility of negotiations with Putin. What a disrespect of the time and effort put in by JD and Trump. The only way the war will end is with some kind of negotiated settlement, Ukraine will not win on the field of battle, so why is Zelensky mucking around. He is not fit.
I’m not Trump’s biggest fan but I really like a lot of what he’s done since taking office. Nobody came out of this smelling of roses, but Trump simply confirmed the worst of what his haters say about him: once an r-sole always an r-sole: