Joe Biden has proposed sweeping reforms to the U.S. Supreme Court accusing it of making “dangerous and extreme decisions” and losing the public’s trust. The Telegraph has more.
The U.S. President, who has been a frequent critic of the conservative-leaning court’s recent judgments, said its members should be subject to 18-year term limits and a “binding” code of conduct.
Writing in the Washington Post, he claimed the court was “mired in a crisis of ethics” and needed drastic reform to “restore trust and accountability”.
Mr. Biden also proposed a constitutional amendment that would reverse a July 1st ruling in which the court ruled that Donald Trump and other former Presidents have partial immunity from criminal prosecution for “official actions” during their time in the White House.
“What is happening now is not normal, and it undermines the public’s confidence in the court’s decisions, including those impacting personal freedoms,” he said. “We now stand in a breach.”
Earlier this month, the court split along partisan lines when it ruled that Trump could not be prosecuted for exercising his constitutional powers while in office, and had the “presumption of immunity” for his official acts.
Arguing that the decision turned Presidents into “kings and dictators”, Mr Biden called for a constitutional amendment to “make clear that there is no immunity for crimes a former President committed while in office”.
“I share our founders’ belief that the President’s power is limited, not absolute,” he added.
It marks Mr. Biden’s first major intervention since he dropped out of the Presidential race and endorsed Kamala Harris just over a week ago.
Analysts said the President’s proposals were largely aspirational. Term-limits and a code of conduct would need Congressional approval, and are unlikely to pass the Republican-controlled House. A constitutional amendment would need two-thirds support in both the House and the Senate, or an even more far-fetched passage on state-level.
The President, a former Chairman of the Senate’s Judiciary Committee, accused the court of making “dangerous and extreme decisions that overturn settled legal precedents” – such as ending the federal right to an abortion.
Six of the nine Supreme Court judges were appointed by Republican presidents. Three of them were put in place by Trump, while Mr. Biden has appointed only one.
So is it now okay to oppose the “rule of law” and label judges “extreme” when they make decisions you don’t like, or only if you’re on the Left? I think we all know the answer to that.
Worth reading in full.
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There was I thinking that scepticism was at the heart of good journalism.
Indeed, we should all remain sceptical, especially of western posturing and journalistic hysteria, you only have to read this sobering analysis to understand whats really going on: https://asiatimes.com/2022/02/get-out-of-the-ukraine-mess-and-avoid-nuclear-war/
A fine article. Thanks.
I’ve read too many fear mongering write-ups based on Because we don’t know, it certainly could … to not spot them immediately and I’m not young enough to fall for this one. Cold-war peace relied on the so-called MAD for mutual assured destruction, ie, whoever uses strategical nuclear weapons first dies second. Nothing has changed in this area. Hence, that’s still the You lost by committing very seriously extended suicide option. Nothing to win here.
Looseley paraphrasing Heinlein: War is not out-of-control violence to accomplish maximum possible destruction – that’s a bogeyman story to frighten juvenile climate activists – but controlled violence to achieve an objective. The objective here seems to be to turn Ukraine back into Russian satellite state and possibly, Russian annexion of some provinces. That’s something the Russian government can accomplish by winning a conventional war in Ukraine and cannot accomplish by starting a global nuclear war. The only outcome of that would be that they’d be significantly worse off then when they had never invaded.
And the West can’t stop Russia because its armies are away on diversity training course and learning to come to terms with White Privilege. UK doesn’t have an effective modern tank because the priority was not its fighting capabilities, but reducing its CO2 emissions. These days battles are won by armies with the lowest carbon footprint.
And yet we are being primed for tactical (theatre) nuclear war as if it won’t effect western Europe.. One nuclear bomb and we are all gone, or at least, an excuse for the side effects of the vaccine.
Rubbish article that could have been written by Putin himself and which proves TY correct.
and science as well
Well, first off, they should give Russell Brand a puck in the snot.
Yes I personally sent him plenty of very strong evidence unveiling the Convid scam but he maintained his on the fence position thus encouraging his audience to get jabbed, certainly not warnign them against it. He may have changed course since, but the reality is that him and his ilk could have saved lives by telling peopel to resist and wait as there was zero risk even according to official sources. He is just another shill and should not be trusted.
I’ve only recently watched some of Brand’s YT videos (linked from Dr John Campbell’s channel) so I can’t comment on his previous stance(s) on covid.
It’s always struck me that if you wanted to keep your YT channel open, you’d better be aware of the prevailing sentiment and not get too out of step.
Thus, I find that Campbell’s stuff is interesting, but he’s always careful to stress that he’s analysing and quoting from others’ scientific papers or government data sources (and he seems 100% gung-ho on covid vaxxes).
Similarly, in Brand’s video yesterday, his rant about ‘disinformation’ (as promulgated by governments and MSM) seemed to be an excursion beyond what he had felt able to do previously.
He cannot give an opinion on vaccines because he’s not qualified, and because YouTube would shut down his channel. He may or may not agree in private, but YT deletes anything it considers to be “misinformation,” aka scientific evidence.
He cannot tell people not to get vaccinated, as that would most definitely result in that video being removed, and he’s made it clear that he holds no opinion one way or another. That does not equate to encouraging people to get vaccinated.
From what I’ve seen, he’s presented some good, alternative information on a raft of subjects.like
He’s clearly upset all the right people, as he’s now classified as “far right.”
I’ve been overwhelmed with downvotes!
Fu*k me.
The douche bag Brand is loved on here!
Neither a downvoter nor a noticer of downvotes be.
Solid advice, but not liked by your downvoter. (Not that you’d have noticed.)
I loathe the preening prat. The downvote is for advocating a violence based solution, even tongue in cheek. If we normalise violence against people with whom we disagree, or that we simply dislike, then we’ll have little cause for complaint against “Punch an antivaxxer” sentiments.
I upvoted Fireweasel. I am obviously consumed by war fever.
Me too because FW invariably talks sense.
Yes, I know I’ll be called a creep.
Screaming clinical narcissist. Pay him and his like no heed.
The downvotes are because I jokingly (sarcastically) advocated violence against Brand!
David Starkey summed up the West’s problem succinctly on Mark Steyn’s GB news show the other day.
To paraphrase Starkey in relation to the West’s ability to counter Putin’s transgressions in Ukraine:
Wokeness and stupidity begs the chicken and egg question. Which came first, was it wokeness or was it stupidity? I suspect it was stupidity, and that wokeness simply gave them a podium from which they could put it on shameless public display.
I’m beginning to realise that here on the Daily Sceptic there are a lot of progressives that have been driven away from their former ideology by the plandemic and gene therapies. But due to cognitive dissonance, or whatever other psychological ills, they can’t get their heads around the normality that regular people live in – such as a “puck in the snot” which can only be taken as being said in jest, and which can only be found offensive by those eternally looking for something to be offended at.
HERE’S 10 WAYS THE TWITS CAN STOP BEING SO EASILY OFFENDED
What people should realise about a lot of these progressives, even when they seemingly desert their ideology, is that many of them remain dangerous to normal societies.
A weird phenomenon has been noted in the US where progressives have fled Democrat controlled cities that have been completely destroyed by the Left politicians they’ve spent years voting into power.
These progressives moved to Republican controlled states and cities, but, weirdly, when they settle in them they resume voting for Democrat politicians. It’s so bad that in some Republican states they are pushing back against people fleeing Democrat controlled cities, the natives in the red states don’t want them, due to the fact that the inane losers are quite certainly going to start electing loser politicians in the states they move to.
It’s actually quite amazing that people would flee a city ruined by idiotic politicians for a new area, and then, having set up home in the new area, continue voting for idiotic politicians.
As some people might sum it up: You just can’t fix stupid.
Seems that you were offended by the downvotes, fren. If not, you chose a particularly verbose and salty way to suggest otherwise.
I’ll tell you a story: In 2021 a lady approached a queue of people outside a temporary gene therapy unit. They were lining up to be “vaccinated”.
This lady asked people in this queue if they were aware the “vaccines” were causing quite serious adverse effects and deaths. These people had made up their minds to be “vaccinated” and the lady that attempted to interact with them was attempting to see they had received the necessary information in order to actually have given their informed consent.
This lady was civil and polite in the way she approached and spoke to these “vaccine” queuers.
The “vaccine” queuers got annoyed with this educated and learned lady, they turned away from her, they ignored her and would not respond to her.
Without doubt, the reason that at least some of these “vaccine” queuers got annoyed and ignored the lady was because they were scared that members of the crew that was injecting the gene therapies might see them speaking with an antivaxxer.
Basically, they were subservient sheep that were ready to kiss authority’s butt and lash out at anyone that evidentially suggested this same authority may be going to inject them with noxious substances.
And, also like sheep, when the line of “vaccine” queuers saw the first person refuse to respond to the lady’s advice or suggestions, they took their lead from this person.
It’s reasonable to believe that these subservient sheep made no effort to question the medical people dispensing the “vaccines” about adverse effects. They’d have just walked in like lambs and obediently taken the shots of gene therapy.
These mobile gene therapy dispensing stations were not set up because the NHS was worried about people’s health, they were set up to promote the gene therapies on behalf of Bill Gates and Big Pharma.
The cowardly subservient types that queued outside and unquestionably accepted the toxic gene therapies were the perfect free advertisements for Bill Gates and Big Pharma. Queues like this sent a clear message to others that the experimental gene therapies were 100% safe, yet, as above experience shows, this queue didn’t know the first thing about whether the “vaccines” were safe or not, and simply didn’t want to know.
So, when I experience idiotic downvoters getting offended about a joke, they remind me these sheep that unquestioningly accepted the gene therapies, and who by doing so, also enticed others into taking them.
As the plandemic has proved, if you have enough cowardly and eager to be offended cretins in a society, they can do actual and serious harm to that society.
(And no, I’m not offended by the downvoters in question or any downvoters. Quite the opposite, I enjoy the tangent on which they send my mode of thinking. Like this post for instance, I started it with the intention of two short paragraphs, and now here I am with spittle flying from my mouth, ‘er indoors keeping a frying pan nearby for protection, and the neighbours, yet again, screaming and pounding on the walls demanding we keep the noise down. And about 40 cigarette butts around my feet. Bloody downvoters!
https://ourdecisiontoo.com//Issue/there-s-nothing-left-to-do-but-go-our-separate-ways/320/
Well said- we are indeed surrounded by sheep. During the clap for NHS Thursdays, there were a couple of local ‘organizers’ who would march up and down the street banging saucepans loudly and looking to see who was and was not clapping. It simply never occurred to them that it wasn’t compulsory. Sadly, these people were missing during the VE Day celebration and again on Remembrance Sunday.
Same near me. The local FB groups had several posts praising XXX street / road etc because many of the residents were out caterwauling but then admonished other roads who were quieter and not seen as protecting the NHS as they should!
Inevitably, there would the infamous post about all non-believers and those not showing support should be made to work on a covid ward without PPE blah blah blah…boring, boring, boring.
Vomit inducing tripe which was eagerly sucked up by the convid army.
Meanwhile, all the local shop workers, posties, bus drivers, etc. were all already working in close contact with people without PPE, (all still strangely alive too), but getting no thanks or applause. I suppose these plebs should have been grateful that their betters were showing them the way…
I’m inclined to think that the message was only ‘clear’ if you had been calibrated to accept the ‘Last Hope’ signal (2.4GHz) from FearPorn Central.
So blinded by the left/right dialectic are you, that you attribute your down votes to the mindset of the left/democrats. Forgetting, that crack squads of Delingpole followers (having menaced these pages since inception) will often strike, from out of nowhere, with a flurry of dv’s (just cos you sound like a wrong un…) before melting back into the non-partisan forests of conspiracy.
There is a parallel in Muslims moving to non-Muslim countries and then supporting, at the extreme, Sharia law in the new country.
…
I’m not one of your downvoters, and I’ve previously considered Brand to be a loud mouthed pillock to whom I would never give oxygen. However, having read reports that he has been an independent thinker regarding Covid and personal freedoms (and I suppose he would support personal freedom, as we generally do here), I watched a recent offering. I found him a rather more grown up individual than previously. Long may it last.
I presume from Toby’s recommendation he’s strayed on the Putin front. I’ll take Toby’s word for it because our Russell is a somewhat exhausting presenter of his ideas. I think your descriptive phrase was somewhat OTT which might account for the downvotes. Feel free to downvote my opinion if you wish.
It’s absolutely wonderful to meet people like you every now and then.
+1
Not by me.
Not by me he isn’t- just another overpaid luvvie.
There, there, Fireweasel, I’ve given you a like. But seriously, first lesson in being a sceptic – grow a thick skin. Like Toby.
‘There is a very interesting 2019 video of an interview in Costa Rica in which Klaus Schwab lists Tony Blair, Angela Merkel, and Vladimir Putin as former World Economic Forum “Young Global Leaders”.’
https://anti-empire.com/why-does-klaus-schwab-think-that-vladimir-putin-was-a-wef-young-global-leader/
And Brendon O Connell has done ALL the hard work for you unveiling how the Kissinger Klan are running the show from behind the scenes, working for the banksters, City of London and East India Trading Company aka Rothschild crime and banking, installing and maintaining puppets all over the world and FUNDING ALL SIDES of the narratives we are fed. Very important to understand this. His work is paramount, if you want to understand the bigger picture. Brendon has been way ahead of the pack for a long time and remains so.
Tucker Carlson and Know Your Russian Oligarch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSG6_Jkn-k4
Yes, but, ah, but, that doesn’t really mean anything. The Davos crowd only meet once a year, and those Young Leader programmes are probably just a talking shop for people with no influence. Like the political leaders of entire countries. Isn’t that right??? (sarc)
Wars are basically pissing contests between the elite and powerful of countries. The cost and the suffering is borne by the plebs.
So as far as I’m concerned the victims of this war are ordinary Ukrainians, Russians who are instructed to invade Ukraine, ordinary Russians who will suffer the consequences of sanctions.
From a geopolitical perspective I couldn’t really care less. I used to be more attached to western ideals, but they’ve been destroyed over the last couple of decades, with the relentless encroachment of the state in our lives.
Basically, whichever state or group of states wins out in this conflict will use any additional power gained against me and my freedom,
Agreed, I’d rather my own government took it’s hand out of my pocket, stopped telling me what I’m supposed to put in my body, how I’m allowed to heat my home and which genders are allowed. As it is I’m in a constant fight to save enough money to gtfo before they destroy it’s value or tax it all away.
The global reality imo is that freedom is best served by a Russian victory in the current dispute, since this is a case of a weaker power resisting encroachment by the globally dominant superpower and its attendant grouping.
The worst case scenario imo has always been global government – de facto or de jure: the infamous boot stamping on the human face forever, with no escape, no “outside”, nowhere to give a refuge or an example of how things could be done differently.
Russia is a least partially outside the US sphere, and resists it in many key aspects, not least the culture war aspects highlighted for instance by our MI6 chief a couple of days ago.
The only other real rival power centre is that based in the other superpower, China. That at least represents resistance to the world state, but is in most aspects even worse than the US sphere. Nevertheless, that’s better than unified global power.
I wish India would grow a bit vs China.
A federal democracy, operating under English common law … what’s not to like?
Stability often seems to come from a balance of power. One superpower is a problem.
“Stability often seems to come from a balance of power.”
Indeed. Though such stability is necessarily dynamic. The alternative, though, is the stability of stagnation.
“One superpower is a problem.”
See Mearsheimer’s comments about the problems created by the US’s “unipolar moment”, after the fall of the Soviet Union and before China rose to become a peer competitor.
India is very seriously infected by Gates, with Indian support. Currently a war is being waged against their farmers. Extremely nasty. Theft of the commons.
I think this point is unarguable, especially with reference to key policy of appeasing and encouraging fascism in the West over the last 100 years – and recently the blind eyes that have been turned to post-Maidan era Ukraine. I would go further in stating that if Russia fails to prevail in this dispute, the EU 4th Reich (with the backing of the USA, WEF and the western banking/corporate cartel) will be free to rise to a position of complete dominance.
The bought-and-sold UK, as we see from the idiotic comments of Liz Truss, is already well on board with arming fascists and sacrificing Brit lives by encouraging UK nationals to become bloody mercenaries with one of the various fascist militias tear-assing around Ukraine (officially illegally, but encouraged by Zelensky and his henchmen) killing Russian speakers and torching houses.
On a larger scale, the ensuing Nazi-EU hegemony on the European continent will mean it is inevitable that the UK is at some point re-integrated. And it is at that point you can kiss the fast vanishing myth of free speech and scepticism (already seriously undermined over the last 2 years) goodbye forever.
Another idiotic comment supporting far left military aggression.
Rubbish. All of it.
All of what?
https://ourdecisiontoo.com//Issue/there-s-nothing-left-to-do-but-go-our-separate-ways/320/
I’d love to know why anyone downvoted this and why- seems perfectly inoffensive to me.
I shouldn’t have thought there are many people, including among the sceptics, who think invasion of a country, bombing, tanks, deaths, people fleeing is something that is just or right. There is a difference between saying how different is this from what the West, the US in particular, has done many times before and saying you agree with it or approve it.
I think above all that most people are thinking that we do not want to get involved, it is a conflict we do not need to be engaged in, no matter how much we may sympathise with the normal citizens stuck in the middle of this.
More refugees in a Europe filled to the brim with refugees we already cannot place. All Western countries are in poor shape after 2 years of mismanaged ‘pandemic’. There is little by way of military strength, the US military has no doubt been harmed under Democrate mandates on diversity and vaxxing.
The propaganda I’ve seen is quite astonishing – social media filled with blue/yellow flags, football matches paying tribute, article after article about the bravery of Ukraine’s president, its brave fighters, how much we care and love them – 2 weeks ago if you had told the same people Ukraine was a province of Russia they probably would have nodded their head.
One can be outraged on a personal level for the destruction and devastation being wreaked, mistrust Putin (and anyone who did not think all along that he was a wolf is a fool), that doesn’t mean we should be getting involved or ignore the fact that the West appears to have been gagging for this invasion for years now. Something stinks about this whole thing.
And two weeks ago, if you’d said “How angry are you about Russia’s 2014 invasion and occupation of Crimea?” you’d have received shrugs.
By and large, people are angry about what everybody tells them to be angry about, and clap like seals for… well, we all know how that goes.
You are right.
Also the coordinated lighting up of famous landmarks in the colours of the Ukrainian flag!
A much more balanced articulation of thoughts than the article above. I feel the same. Genuinely concerned that this globalist party game will kill many innocent people, and lead to all manner of secondary pain points for us all. However, we are lied to on a daily basis. Trying to weed through the propaganda is incredibly difficult and so I’m in a wait and see mode. The same way I dealt with Covid.
I’m aware I have that luxury however.
I must be a fool because I don’t even know what you mean when you say a person is a wolf.
In capitalism peace is only preparation for war. War is the health of the state.
I’m not so sure about this narrative any longer.
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/steyn-and-starkey-on-the-wests-world-of-illusion/
This was a fascinating and insightful discussion. Starkey pretty much lays out how the West has shrunken it’s spending on Defence to the point we can no longer defend ourselves, Western leaders now see themselves more like custodians of the planet and wokery. Doesn’t sound like warmongering capitalism to me.
Absolutely.
The real war is the state and its establishment against ordinary people, the establishment relentlessly telling us what to do and how to live and the people either complying or being bullied, coerced, shamed until they do.
When the Russia- Ukraine conflict is over, I know all I have to look forward to is the establishment refocusing its attention on how to control me and get me to do what it wants.
Yes, here in the West large indignation about a state telling citizens (both its own Russian citizens and other, Ukranian citizens) what to do and curtailing their rights – while the hypocrites are continuing to steamroller over ours as they have been doing for the past 2 years (well, past 10 – 20 years, the last 2 years showed them just how blatant and draconian they can be and get away with it).
Not too surprised about Steyn, who iirc was a dupe for the neocons on previous occasions, such as the Iraq War, but disappointing to see Starkey going for this kind of silliness.
Here are the current military spending numbers:
There are many quibbles you can make with such numbers, but the basic reality is laid out clearly there. Militarily there are only two significant powers, and Russia is not one of them. It’s a capable great power, but not a superpower. Its main source of relative military strength is its nuclear capabilities, but those are of limited use in practical military applications, and mainly serve as deterrent.
In reality, China’s numbers understate its strength, but it is still far, far behind the US in terms of global military force projection capability, because military power is a lag indicator and China’s military strength will be catching up with its economic rise for decades to come.
The hard reality is that Russia’s action in the Ukraine reflects its relative weakness as much as its strength, vis a vis the US sphere. The issue is not about raw military power, but about motivation. The Ukraine is a core interest for Russia, it’s a luxury for the US and for Europe.
The real issue for “the west” is its internal culture war problems -the desperate rearguard resistance against the anti-western woke left that has risen to dominance over the past few decades.
In second place is China – the only peer competitor for the US.
Russia is nowhere on the list, and in fact in a competently run US sphere would have been wooed as an ally against China, rather than driven into the latter’s arms.
Thank god for western incompetence then.
I would have once cheered for it. But since the west has abandoned the ideas of freedom it once defended, albeit imperfectly and somewhat cynically, I’m just not on the west’s side anymore. I can’t see a single country on the planet that is standing up properly for personal freedom so I’m not on anyone’s side.
Really interesting stats.
I hope Toby sees this post. It’s an example of what a sceptical response to the Russia – Ukraine conflict might look like, rather than the telling off he’s tried to give us all this morning.
I’m not sure if the figures are correct, whether the sources are reliable, but the approach is exactly what scepticism looks like: questioning underlying assumptions with key facts and ideas.
The source is SIPRI, per this site:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/military-spending-by-country
In truth, books can be written (and have been) about how to assess military spending and its impact. This is just a grab at the broad numbers for the sake of the discussion, but it makes the point..
Interesting, thank you.
Toby isn’t a sceptic, so it doesn’t matter. He’s an opportunist journalist – like his mate Boris. And just as Boris only espoused the Brexit cause – after thinking about it overnight – so TY saw his chance by being the sensible dissenting (but pro-government) voice during lockdown.
Besides, Putin himself laid out the massive disparity in military spending figures long before the operation started – and asked then why would Russia want war, as it stood no chance against the combined spending of NATO?
For Russia, this is existential. Ukraine was overthrown in 2014 by a US backed coup, and its institutions (including the army) dominated by neo-Nazi ideology. Every year Russia put forward an anti-Nazi resolution at the UN, every year the USA votes against it and the EU abstains. As Putin admitted, he should have recognised the Donbass republics much earlier than he did (they were declared in 2014 to attempt to protect the Russian speakers from post coup fascist Ukraine state violence).
The EU meanwhile morphs into the Nazi 4th Reich with sanctions and totalitarian censorship, and the Globalist US/WEF project is taking a huge step forward. If Russia fails, then there will be no room for scepticism. Ursula is the only mad (unelected) dictator here.
I don’t know Mr Young, so I can neither agree nor disagree on your description of him.
Like many who think themselves sceptical, I seem to vary in strength from time to time and from issue to issue. Perhaps Toby Young is similarly human (and therefore erring)?
One man’s scepticism is another’s pig-headed refusal to accept “obvious truths” – it’s far easier to be sceptical about issues you aren’t committed to.
Like you accepting your “obvious truth” that Steyn is a neocon and Putin virtuous.
Know him by his words and actions.
I think a 40 km long convoy of Russian tanks could be driven through your litany of excuses for the current Russian despot with the keys to the Kremlin to invade another country to “protect” indigenous Russian speakers. What unadulterated rubbish; he could – if he has genuinely concerned as you delightfully view him through rose tinted spectacles – repatriate all his endangered Russian speaking populations – Russia has the space in case you haven’t clocked that, and then create within his borders a demilitarised zone – let’s say 100 km wide from the Batlic to the Black Sea with UN Security Council approval; any violation of that strip by marauding NATO offensive armed forces could then be justifiably met with similar Russian force.
By your twisted logic, it is fine for the Russians to occupy a country on the pretext to prevent them going the EU/NATO and if successful, will then have their “border” extended right up against ……a member of NATO – will Putin then spout that because of the proximity of an evil NATO aggressor country, they have to take steps to preserve their territorial integrity? You are just another useful idiot for the Russian State mafia, if so.
Instead he invades a sovereign country – whether you like it or not, they had “free and fair” elections unlike throughout Russia – because he does not want them to join NATO, a mutual defense organisation despite your attempts to denominate it as an aggressive imperialist territory hungry offensive minded coalition, of their own free will.
How may offensive wars has NATO, of its own free will and without prior provocation, started since 1945 on the continent of Europe? Now add up the same metric from the USSR/RF standpoint… the winner is..?
I am no fan of the hawks in the Pentagon or NATO or the Kremlin; NATO countries have , stupidly, reduced their armed forces for many years whilst the threatened RF have done the exact opposite. Ukraine have certainly a case to answer historically for supporting the NAZI regimes – but there is no point indulging in extended Whataboutery; Russian troops are killing innocent civilians in their current aggressive land grab attempt; they have fomented the Donbass region for years – when did the Ukraine start to invade Russia on a similar pretext?
.
Excellent.
Watch for the DVs.
On cue….long embedded useful idiots or just stupid, can’t quite make my mind up. I think it is a “Badge of Honour ” to the hoards of the Public Sector tax payer grazing very left of centre, to demonise the US; some of the criticism is valid for sure, but the unadulterated blame game for current events solely laid at the door of Langley and Washington DC is simply juvenile, lazy, and factually perforated.
One thing that always strikes me is that these historically naive fools call out the “Americans”; setting aside, but not ignoring, the legitimate criticisms of the treatment of native populations and African slaves, do they not understand that the US population stems, greatly, from Scandinavia, Ireland, the UK, Germany and dare I mention …Russia.
Is it just me that considers this a huge contradictory prejudice – invoking invective against the US and favouring that paragon of humanitarian assistance – have any of these fools stopped to consider the extent to which Russia has welcomed “foreigners” with open arms into Mother Russia…..or should I whisper “Pogroms” …..Red army culls…..Gulags.
I reckon they have no idea, eg, who Alexander Solzhenitsyn is – perhaps they should read his polemical studies of despotic Russian egocentricity. The most angry writing I have ever read…still not fished the Gulags.
Rubbish.
His approach is to support Putin’s aggression.
add another 100 Bn euro to Germanys figure
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/27/germany-set-up-fund-boost-military-strength-ukraine-putin
This always fascinates me, how people have such wildly different takes, opinions on the same thing. Which is why we should all remain sceptical and do our own research. And as I am pretty ignorant on defense spending and military history, I really need to read up on this before I would be willing to come down firmly on either side.
Could you factor in this… https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2020/01/23/Pentagon-s-35-Trillion-Accounting-Black-Hole?
Russia suffered horrendously from the invasions of the 20th century. Sensitivity about potentially hostile developments on its borders is surely understandable.
Preaching from countries which invaded Iraq because they didn’t like the government (lying about their reasons for doing so) doesn’t impress me.
The US invaded Iraq on the pretext of a horrific false flag against their own people, the neocons were so desperate to get their hands on Iraq’s oil wealth.
9/11 was done by the US deep state.
https://www.ae911truth.org/?s=01
What was that about deranged psychopaths, Toby Young?
Iraq did not impress me either, not one jot; Russians suffered just as horribly as a result of the actions of Lenin and Stalin or have you forgotten that?
USSR/RF are the serial instigators of hostile aggressions on other countries on the continent of Europe/Asia Minor since WWII: To consider them as “threatened” is a sick joke.
As soon as you denigrate Steyn you reveal your far left views and support for Putin.
Steyn’s knowledge of geopolitics is second to none.
The difference between US military spending and Russian military spending is simple.
The US system is based on costs-plus development leading to production of over-expensive ineffective weapon systems. There is much more profit to be made if systems don’t work well. More are needed to do the job. For example, the Tomahawk cruise missile has about a 50% target hit rate, which hasn’t improved since its early use. This is seen as no problem in the US as it usually only faces essentially unarmed opponents. It won’t work so well with a peer or better opponent. The F-35 stealth aircraft is a fine example there. It is stealthy head on but not against multistatic radar systems. Guess who has that sort of setup.
Russia’s spending is aimed at maximum bang-per-buck, as it doesn’t have the US privilege of having the reserve currency for energy trade. It also doesn’t have a global empire to keep under its thumb, and having been there only to be sucked dry by east European leaches, has no desire for one. This means it has no need for ferociously expensive blue water carrier fleets. Instead it has relatively cheap hypersonic missiles designed spefically to convert carriers into diving reefs.
I’m confident that is not likely to be wide of the mark.
I enjoyed, many years ago, a book that was given to me, titled ‘The Wit’s Dictionary’. The definition of ‘ignoramus’ was ‘someone who doesn’t know something that you learned yesterday’.
But it’s fine when we do it.
The dismemberment of Yugoslavia and the recognition of the created entity Kosovo; the invasion of Afghanistan; the war of aggression against Iraq leading to excess deaths of at least 500,000; the destruction of Libya, transforming the richest country in North Africa to an ISIS-ridden hellhole with real slave markets; the coup in Ukraine enabling hardcore neo-Nazis; unleashing ISIS on Syria; enabling the Saudi attempts to ethnically cleanse the Houthis in west Yemen; colour-coded regime change operations in Belarus (as Lukashenko wouldn’t take to covid scam bribe), Khazakstan, Armenia, and attempts in Russia.
“How Should Sceptics Respond to Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine?”
With research and facts as usual!
Sceptics are sceptical for a very good reason. We’ve been lied to for decades! It’s interesting to read some of the twitter threads from those that appeared to have been red-pilled over covid and vaccines, only to swallow the ‘Putin Bad’ narrative in its entirety, without any due diligence. Have they learnt nothing?! I had hoped that this covid debacle would be a turning point in the populace’s automatic acceptance of government narrative and spin. It would appear that just as quickly as covid has disappeared, so has healthy scepticism and critical thinking!
A bigger minority have turned that corner, but it is still a minority. The majority still turn to the BBC, ITV and the established papers to find out how and what to think.
While Toby has a direct line to the government press office to make sure he’s on message.
The only things I believe on the “news” are the sports scores. Too many people care and know for them to get it wrong on a regular basis.
They’re presenting morality plays. The medieval ones were more lively, entertaining and credible.
I went to a coffee shop today to get out of the house. There was a young couple sitting at the next table. Very bright from incidental overhead phrases – medical, military background, science, multiple languages. When they started talking about Ukraine I found it difficult not to laugh out loud. The man, concerned about possibly being called, started talking about Russian tactics for the use of artillery and the like, It was clear he envisaged a replay of World War II with massed tank battles over the plains of Europe. This reminds me of the Britsh generals in WWI thinking of cavalry, with an opponent armed with machine guns.
He is (and presumbly his miltary contemporaries also) totally unaware of Russian military doctrine, publicly updated in the face of relentless NATO expansion east.
i) If NATO enters Russia it will face nuclear response and
ii) if attacked by any NATO country, all of NATO will be a target (clause 5 works both ways) – actually just the US and UK as the rest are poodles. For the UK, I imagine there will be massive cruise missile bombardments to take out or render inoperative Fylingdales, Goonhilly, all the USAF air bases, munitions stores, C&C centres, nuke sub bases at Faslane and south England(?) and the like.
It is clear from the mass anctions that TPTB are trying to avoid i). However, ii) is worrying because Ukraine is militarily dominated by batshit crazy neo-Nazi Banderites ruled by hatred. People ruled by hatred, and fear, act without thinking of the consequences. Prior to Russia’s recognition of the two breakway regions, they had already shelled Russian territory, blowing up a border post, killing someone on their way to work, amd sent in a couple of BMPs on a sabotage mission, to be intercepted and destroyed by Russian border guards. If these people think they are fully backed by NATO, there will be no restraint. And then all bets are off.
BloJo probably dreams of this, seeing himself as another Churchill
Operation Unthinkable – Churchill’s plans to invade the Soviet Union
I fucking grew up during ‘Duck and Cover’. It wasn’t fun then and I would rather not have to go through it again. Fsck them all.
Ukraine’s Deadly Gamble
By tying itself to a reckless and dangerous America, the Ukrainians made a blunder that client states will study for years to come
Excellent article. Please read in full.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/ukraines-deadly-gamble
My trouble is that I now believe the MSM and governments blatantly don’t tell the truth and seem to work together, even at a super-national level. The result is that I now doubt everything they say. If you google “Why is Ukraine the West’s Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer” you will come across a 2015 political analysis of the Ukranian situation on youtube. This provides a prophetic analysis which predates current analysis and, to me, makes more sense. The saying that, “the truth can stand anyamount of analysis” holds true to me. Unfortunately, if the analysis and predictions were true, the West is probably pushing all the wrong buttons.
“My trouble is that I now believe the MSM and governments blatantly don’t tell the truth and seem to work together, even at a super-national level. “
Been happening for years. Do keep up
Sceptical? With justification. Just about every ‘image’ run by the MSM or on social media about this conflict has been proven to be of somewhere other than Ukraine and in the past. There are no verifiable reports from ‘old hand’ journalists on the ground at the front line of engagements.
Loads of pictures/stories about citizens fleeing, loads of diagrams, loads of speculations, loads of simulations.
Its Europe, where was the anguish over Kazakhstan? Somehow it IS different if its MENA; Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. Russia in Afghanistan, bad; NATO in Afghanistan, good.
I am no Putin apologist, but the hypocrisy of supporting the US bombing countries back to the stone age is indigestible this early in the morning.
There are evil people in charge of most nations, it goes with seeking power. And there are evil people pulling their strings to make themselves rich beyond belief. The ordinary guy/gal just suffers when this evil openly shows itself.
You sure did hit the nail on the head!
I know. If they need to keep using fake photos and fake videos, it’s because the reality on the ground does not match what we are being told. And, as with covid, they are lying in unison. They ALL have video game dogfights, they ALL have Miss Ukraine with an airsoft rifle…
you can get a wider view of what’s going on on reddit that the MSM e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/
Most of the Russian equipment is old scrap, most of the men are ill trained young conscripts. Some strategic stuff coing on with modern equipment and special forces, but it’s an exception rather thana rule so far.
A cynicwould be tempted to call it scripted. But it does look designed to be a drawn out affair rather than the definitive fast victory had it been planned to be such.
The last time the Russians took Kiev they deployed 730,000 troops – laying down 26 bridges in order to cross the Dnieper and encircle the city, with the additional assistance of 87 ferries. The fighting extended from the 3 November to 22 December, and cost 118,000 Soviet casualties. It was the Germans but even so, the psyops being used in the MSM that its a disaster for the Russians that its not over by now is clearly ridiculous. And yes I have also noticed what pictures there have been of Russian ‘tanks’ are not tanks but armoured troop carriers with a gun. And they don’t appear to wearing skirts which is very odd. And where are the support helicopters? Something is not adding up here.
Absolutely right. The coverage has been surreal – lots of “reports coming in of fighting…” and “missiles raining down” but very little by way of pictures. No background explosions, no rockets being fired, no exhausted and bloody troops trudging forwards or back – nothing at all like what we saw for the West’s numerous shock & awe missions (or the Russians in Chechnia or Syria for that matter).
When we do get report from Kiev – and it’s usually just from there or the border – we find it’s all “strangely quiet”, that these “brave people” are “bracing themselves”, but not much else. Of course something military is going on, but the extent to which it’s violent, indescriminate, disproportionate or anything simply cannot be judged from the coverage we’re getting.
War is smoke-screen for WEFetal’s take-over of whole World becoming Law within 8 weeks; each and every nation’s sovereignty to WHO i.e. WEFetal.
If a country’s ‘Health’ Minister does not write rejection letter to WHO, it will be Law by default.
For each and every type of ‘crisis’ WEFetal dream up, horrendously murderous ‘measures’ will be legally enforced by WEFetal.
Discussing their smoke-screen does exactly as intended: enable WEFetal to slip legislation to govern all under radar.
What on earth are you on about?
JayBee gave guidance on where to find info in their comment following article here a few days ago about repealing coronavirus act etc
I repeat my question.
Read @Bolloxed Britainnia’s post below, and catch up with the implications of the “INTERNATIONAL TREATY ON PANDEMIC PREVENTION AND Preparedness”.
You appear to have taken a suggestion about a talking-shop which might issue a report in a couple of years, and extrapolated and asserted firm conclusions and consequences which I can’t find mentioned anywhere.
I repeat my question.
I’m responding with a shrug. We have no Sukhoi in this dogfight, and I’m not willing to shed one drop of blood, nor spend one brass farthing of treasure to prevent Putin from securing his Western borders against NATO incursion.
From a sceptical point of view, I believe absolutely nothing that’s associated with Ukraine just now, even and especially from “authoritative sources”.
I’m far, far more interested in securing the borders of the UK than of Ukraine.
That’s it in a nutshell. I’m much more interested In the UK Prime Minister securing the sovereignty of Northern Ireland, which he gave away, securing the borders of the UK which is currently being overrun daily by illegal aliens, and improving UK fuel security which he also seems intent on giving away under the orders of his hysterically net zero wife.
A national food policy wouldn’t go amiss either.
Those downvoting, is it because: you’re already on the way to pick up an AK in Ukraine; you’ve spend significant sums of your own money on War Bonds; you do believe the propaganda from either side; or you don’t care about UK’s borders?
“I’m far, far more interested in securing the borders of the UK than of Ukraine.”
Unfortunately, for the people of these islands, Bozo doesn’t share your / our concerns.
ozo
Yet again, everyone is being played, usual script:
Brits should remind themselves of the Deagel forecast, before going to war with a country that can annihilate them at the press of a button.
DEAGEL Forecasts Massive Depopulation by 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4Wahyo5n0
Deagel Makes Mysterious Changes To 2025 Population Forecast For America As Bill Gates Launches ‘Grand Challenge’: The ‘Holy Grail Of Influenza Research’ And ‘Bridging The Valley Of Death’
https://www.algora.com/Algora_blog/2020/04/10/deagel-makes-mysterious-changes-to-2025-population-forecast-for-america-as-bill-gates-launches-gran-d-challenge-the-holy-grail-of-influenza-research-and-b
I’ll read it more fully later but picking up on the last part about the boy, are you suggesting (with a straight face) that we believe someone who lies to us constantly to their own ends because one day they might tell the truth? Those people should be tarred and feathered and thrown out of such positions. Effectively in order to not miss a wolf you’d have to believe them every time, in such a world this website wouldn’t even exist.
I remain in great distrust of the Media and Governments after the past 2 plus years, ongoing for many of our fellow humans in Europe, Austrailia etc. The invasion of Ukraine is genuine, as I am sure the imminent invasion of Taiwan will also be. Whilst the Government with the complicity of Media and the sheeple have cosseted themselves in the belief that a bad cold was the most dangerous thing in the world, despots such as Putin and Xi built their respective war machines. They did not hide this from site, and in the case of China it has made it crystal clear that it believes Taiwan is part of China so none of what has happened should be a surprise. But look at our own sad, fig leaf of a defence force, starved of investment whilst Governments have invested in welfare, and in the past 2 years money wasted multi billions on test and trace, crap vaccines, masks etc. Meanwhile the ability for our country to protect and defend itself has been taken away by stealth.
Our economy has been ruined, we have as much capability against an invader as throwing ice creams against a tank, our people have been bred to be cowards and educated as such, we have been forced to take experimental costly injections 4 times that cause harm and do not work by the Government and Media who cover up the damage they are causing, We have been made to be inhumane and segregated as a society, and now the facade, the lies and the damage are starting to come home, and the people responsible in Government, advisors, media and science have their backs against the wall. The Ukraine situation was bad, but Biden, Macron etc have not exactly tried to calm the flames, the war is a useful and timely distraction, have you noted Covid has gone from the MSM? where is it now?. Might I remind Toby that prior to Covid a very nasty war had been raging against a tyrant in Syria, and indeed in Yemen, it featured nightly on the TV. When Covid came in did it end? is it still going on? what about Assad and the people what are they doing?.
Many of the people who are sceptics are not sceptical about the Russian invasion and Putin, what they don’t believe is the motives behind the Media switch and silence and the Governments, also the spin on stories. After 2 plus years of Lies, propaganda constant fear mongering why would the leopard have changed its spots?
I’m looking forward to seeing the MSM/western Leadership’s pretzel logic of explaining away China “partnering” itself (in the Biblical sense) with Taiwan as NOT BAD and at the same time PUTIN BAD….
Assad is NOT a tyrant.
He is the leader of his country fighting US backed terrorism.
The Syrian people invited Russia in to help their fight.
The US invaded East Syria and were NOT invited in.
Syria is another example of the US undermining Russian interests.
My point was meant to focus on the fact that a war in Syria was a main feature of every news bulletin and MSM, there were stories of the terrible things targetting of hospitals, innocents etc, etc, I agree that whenever the west has interfered in the middle east to try to instil its version of democracy (HA), its caused more trouble than if it had been left alone, Iraq, Libya to name two. But where in the past 2 years has this war in Syria gone? has it ended? Is Assad still there? who knows the media and the Government have dropped that particular “hot story” like a pan full of hot fat at the excitement of the great cold, now that looks to be going to Sh–e and someones ar-e is going to be in the bacon slicer they have conveniently switched to a new war and all the focus and fear porn is going into that. I wonder what is planned next? I predict a great economic crash our pensions will be wiped out and many of European banks will collapse bringing an all mighty end to the European project. Of course this will not be the fault of the magic money tree Governments have been using, or the profligate spending on their mates to assist the great cold carpet bag opportunity, no it will all be the fault of the war in Ukraine and its impact on fuel, and food.
Assad or whatever the point is there is a war but we are being played.
And which tyrant might that be? There are plenty bordering (and non-bordering, including the usual suspects) countries intent on power grabs, territorial annexation and seizure of oil resources via invading armies (and proxy armies) to choose from. Surely you are not suggesting Assad? If so you really need to take another (careful) look.
NATO and Ukraine crossed Russia’s red line, stated way back in 2008 when NATO declared Ukraine and Georgia were to become members in the future. Maybe our ‘leaders’ thought Russia was bluffing? They certainly know they weren’t now!
I don’t approve of the invasion but I fully understand why it has happened. To label Putin a madman is just idiocy.
The US/CIA/NeoCons have been poking the bear since their 2014 coup in Ukraine. They are as equally culpable as the Ruskies.
Unfortunately it’s the Ukranians at the sharp end and trapped in the middle.
I didn’t read the full article btw Toby. I found it a bit too patronising and gave up half way through. Talking down to your readership is not a good look.
Ukraine crossed Russia’s red line?
I don’t like this argument at all.
Surely Ukraine has a right to join whichever organisation is likes, whether Russia likes it or not. That’s national sovereignty, after all.
What ordinary Ukrainians want vs what Ukrainian elites in power want is a whole other issue. But that is more the question than what Russia wants for Ukraine, which should be completely irrelevant.
If Russia regards Ukraine joining NATO as an existential threat then they will react in a way that they see as appropriate, they were NEVER going to just let this happen were they?
It’s a 21st century Cuban missile crisis which has been engineered by the US/NATO/NeoCons.
I don’t think the Russians had much of a choice really. Stay quiet and have NATO on your doorstep or make a move and try to force Ukraine to step back from NATO membership.
Neither option would have positive outcomes for them but one gave them options to try and change the landscape more in their favour.
Framing the issue in terms of “rights” (as though such a thing has real meaning in relation to states rather than people anyway) is inherently misleading.
The issues of relevance are:
Does it make any sense for NATO to continue to exist at all in the absence of the Soviet threat, and does its continued existence actually make the world better or worse, by how much and for whom?
And, should any other countries ever be invited to join NATO, and do such invitations make the world safer or less safe, by how much and for whom?
In truth, general scepticism about the benefits of colossal tax-funded state boondoggles inclined me (an unrepentant NATO supporter during the Cold War) to feel strongly that it should have been wound up, with parties and medals all round, in 1992, and that its continuance would merely be as a hostage to fortune. A bureaucracy desperately hunting for a justificatory mission. A corrupt waste of money and a collection of state sinecures. A dangerous, powerful tool lying around waiting for the worst types to pick it up and use it.
I believe subsequent events have proven those fears on my part to have been unequivocally correct.
he had a talking point given to him. Controlled opposition. About as subtle as a molotov cocktail.
His readership can see through this like a stained glass window. Which is why we frequent this site and provide such a wealth of analyses.
His handlers note this.
So, to his handlers – fuck off, we know. We can see your marionette strings now and we’ll never un-see them.
Toby Young : “Putin’s claim that he wanted to defend Russian separatists in Ukraine who were at the mercy of neo-Nazis is complete balls.”
Reality denial from Toby Young.
Hmmmm. I could reply to each of the points made in turn, but simply don’t have the time. Toby, thanks for your crucial support recently, but you appear to have misunderstood three key points here:
I think you’ve just fell into the trap of the Wests “Russian man bad, Western man good” mantra. They’re both as bad as each other as far as I can see, but at least Putin is more honest about his objectives.
Oh, and this… “What do Putin and his one ally stand for? Abusing the democratic process, imprisoning opposition leaders, shutting down independent newspapers and news websites, rewarding their loyal followers with assets stolen from their people, the persecution of gays and other minorities?”. This doesn’t look dissimilar to Trudeau and the rest of the Western Government/MSM does it?
The west’s moral high ground has been reduced to “yes, but they are even worse”.
And the last two years have shown us that if they can get away with it, most western leaders will implement the same totalitarian control and surveillance over the population that a country like China has developed.
So really, it’s “yes, but they’re even worse, at least for now.”
Toby Young pussyfoots around on “vaccines” because he knows he could easily be banned, sees people banned all around him, then complains about Russia abusing the democratic process. Very funny!
How “protected” from Covid are the vaccinated?
https://dailyexpose.uk/2022/03/01/russia-distraction-uk-gov-revealed-triple-vaccinated-account-9-in-10-covid-deaths/
TY should focus on this, and spare us his patronising remarks on Ukraine, an issue on which he is clueless.
Well written, Toby. Scepticism is not/should not be a philosophy but a desire to perceive the truth, recognising that it is not always easily found, not least because scepticism of one position is nearly always inspired by unquestioning faith in another.
I wish you could be less dismissive of anthropogenic climate change. I agree that Germany’s abnegation of nuclear power was insane, and now the chickens are coming home to roost.
I have strongly held views in support of both Russia and Ukraine, going back 50 years, but do not think of it a Sceptic/not Sceptic issue.
Disagreents over this can only lead to pointless arguments and divisions between us.
Talk about a useful idiot.
Almost 76 years ago to the very day (22 February 1946), George Kennan, the US Ambassador to the Soviet Union sent his famous Long Telegram from Moscow, which formed what became the Truman Doctrine, or, the American policy of containment of the Soviet Union, which guided the Americans for decades.
Fast forward to the 1990s, when the Soviet Union was defeated, Russia was on its knees, and NATO had decided it was a great time for expansion. Kennan felt compelled to speak up with an editorial piece in the New York Times (1997), in which he said “expanding Nato would be the most fateful error in American policy in the entire post-cold war era”. He foresaw that this “would inflame nationalistic, anti-western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion”, “have an adverse effect on the development of Russian democracy”, “restore the atmosphere of cold war to east-west relations”, and “impel Russian foreign policy in directions decidedly not to our liking”.
He was prophetic it seems and it’s a shame that no one listened to him. For years the US has been clumsily blundering into an entirely avoidable crisis and now, here we are.
It’s not a blunder. For all those reasons stated by Kennan, it is precisely the point. The splitting of the world back into a multipolar system from the US centred unipolar system IS THE GOAL.
Once that happens the “need” for global coordination accelerates. Then a Globalist Order is one step closer.
That’s a very valid point. And multi-polar order is also good for the war industry!
The US wants its rules-based order to continue, where it makes the rules and everyone else follows their orders.
Is this all just a big distraction? Another critical step being taken in the Great Reset?
Cyber attacks on banking/energy infrastructure, blamed on Russia. Great for anti-Putin sentiment among the sheep who won’t be able to access their own money to pay for over-priced fuel, groceries and power. Great justification for a consolidated, digital banking system run by the government etc. etc.
It certainly seems to be a useful tool in pushing the Green Bullshite further
That’s all very fine and large, but after the last two years I’m at the point where I just want to see the world burn.
Putin is exposing the moral and physical weakness of the west’s decadent descent into navel-gazing self-obsession and anything that puts a rocket (quite literally) up the arses of the febrile shits who make up the majority of “mood shapers” and decision makers in the west is good with me.
We all adore UK column, don’t we? Here’s their program from Friday that refutes most of Toby’s article with evidence and analysis…
https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-25th-february-2022
Also, evidence from a Russian supporting Ukrainian.
https://youtu.be/OisJkpGYpAo
A useful analogy to the current situation is as follows…
Imagine living in Italy, under the control of the local mafia when suddenly the Chinese triad gang invade your patch. Do you feel allegiance to the mafia because they are from your “side”, or do you take a balanced view?
Fridays UK Column should be required listening for Toby. But will he bother?
Doubt it very much.
Any discussion of Ukraine in 2022 that doesn’t include Ukraine in 2014 is pointless by default. The US and Eu instituted a coup against the legit government in 2014 and after that attacked – relentlessly – ethnic Russians.
Led by EU High Priestess Baroness Ashton, a sub par pen pusher who nobody ever voted for.
Indeed, where was Putin in 2014
I logged in to say it was disappointing not to have seen a sceptic take on this, but now I have read this puff piece you really shouldn’t have bothered. We know the MSM lie to us, they have lied to us over the past four days (cases in point – ghost of Kiev, snake island, Zelensky on the streets of Kiev in combat gear etc)
I don’t think anyone looking for more balanced reporting is saying Putin was right to invade. We are simply looking for something more nuanced than Russian bad/Ukrainian good.
What happened to ‘stay sceptical’?
The Global Cabal, extinguishing sceptics one fomented crisis at a time.
https://off-guardian.org/2022/02/25/whats-really-going-on-in-ukraine/
…and using a fairytale to argue that we should all start trusting the MSM again, after demonstrably losing all credibility over the last few years, is laughable.
It’s not just Ukrainian and Russian citizens that are/will be directly effected; further disruption to gas and oil supplies will continue to inflate Western domestic fuel bills, disrupt financial markets and pension funds, and increase food prices.
Yes, Putin is a wolf, and a very dangerous one. But so are Macron, Johnson, Trudeau, Ardhern, and von der Leyen.
I trust none of them.
And the timing of this conflict stinks to high Heaven.
.
Sums it up perfectly, this ‘invasion’ is nothing but a distraction.
Live cams from Kiev show a very normal looking city and some of the media footage has already been proved as fake.
Putin is another anal Schwab.
And now the cherry on top is Elon Husk activating Starlink over Ukraine because the Russians allegedly took out the internet……which they didn’t.
“anal Schwab”
Very good!
I’m stealing that.
Russians turn on Putin: Massive anti-war protests break out in Moscow and St Petersburg for fourth day in a row…
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10557215/Ukraine-war-Russians-turn-Putin-Kremlin-threatens-jail-traitors-try-help-Ukraine.html
Look who protested against the government…
Priceless
…
When the BBC show old footage of an air display over Kiev and says that they are Russian bombers …
And Miss Ukraine “defending Kiev” with an airsoft rifle, and the president “on the front line” but oops, from 2019, and airstrike video of a chemical explosion in china….
If they have to lie, it’s because the truth won’t work.
Again, a complete and utter fiction based on nothing but word of mouth on social media. Remember, stay sceptical, but don’t just swallow wholesale what sceptics say. The chemical explosion was not claimed by the BBC to be from Ukraine.
Social media algorithms are pushing the recycled images/videos into people’s feeds anyway to stoke anti-Russia sentiment, so the agenda is served both ways.
I understand that the air display was actually filmed in Moscow, several years ago…
https://off-guardian.org/2022/02/27/7-fake-news-stories-coming-out-of-ukraine/
The BBC was actually was one of the first outlets to debunk the bomber footage: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60513452
And another of those mentioned by Off-Guardian: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60528276
Just remember guys – be sceptical of your scepticism too.
“How should sceptics respond” etc…Well, be hugely sceptical i should think! I smell another giant Rattus Rattus. Johnson points his podgy digit at the newly ENDEMIC “Convid” and the end of restrictions, and suddenly Vlad (a WEF “global leader”) recognises the independence of the Donbas and invades Ukraine
Why? i hear you ask, the body has been assembled to discuss an “INTERNATIONAL TREATY ON PANDEMIC PREVENTION AND PREPAREDNESS”….According to Off Guardian, the aim is to deliver a progress report to the 76th World Health Assembly in 2023 and have the proposed instrument ready for legal implementation by 2024!
We should ask “What else is occuring whilst our gaze is averted”?
March 1st 2022, an inter governmental negotiating body has been formed and they’re holding their first meeting today
The NWO technocracy takes another “giant leap for mankind”. Will Putins Russia be party to this nascent global instrument of control or will they be excluded? Should give those of a sceptical bent a head’s up to whether this war in Ukraine is real or yet another FEKIN BIG FALSE FLAG OP…
I am not sure. Its just sickeneing the way the news coverage is invariably one or two items 24 x 7. I for one have deep suspicion of the MSM. While there i no doubt that what is going on in Ukraine is appalling – I still do not trust the MSM at all. It is very hard to get actual facts about what is going on – the media as usual take a very small number of pictures and recycles thm endlessly. I am thinking of the apartment blokk that was damaged in Kiev, and if they find a burnt out truck well that will do. Just think how the MSM covered the truckers – one person once carrying a flag for an hour is the news still. If you remember the coverage in Bhagdad (god forbid) there was no doubt that there was serious war going on. I am not seeing (nor do I want to) anything like that now.
So while as I said it is terrible on a human level, I am sure this is being used as a big distraction – and as many commentators have pointed out – is probably inevitable, given the wokeness and pute infantilism of the so called West. Completely lost its way and in fact stands for nothing as we have seen in the last couple of years.
So no – I do not trust the MS at all, and I am struggling to find reliable news about what is happening over there. At least in the recent disaster there were good alternative voices – such as this site. But please Toby, do’t fall into the trap. Do you really believe there is anything left to believe in or trust? Can you see your own bias?
For anyone who thinks logically and does not let their psychological barriers/biases kick in, the actions that Putin has taken are entirely in the best interests of Russia. Putin was backed into a corner. In my opinion Russia’s action is our best hope of avoiding world war, which the West has been working towards since they installed a puppet Ukrainian government and supported neo-nazi brigades shelling civilians.
We all know Putin is a crook, but fortunately it is in his interests to avoid world war, and he is smart enough not to make the stupid decisions that the West has been making.
If the West was at all interested in diplomacy, this situation would have never arisen. But they are not interested in diplomacy because they need a new never ending threat of war to use against their own populations.
Trouble is there is a puppet nutter in the Whitehouse so GOK what will happen
I feel that I don’t know enough about this subject to have a definite view on it but It seems to me that being sceptical about something, and wanting a fully rounded discussion, with all the facts, the ones you don’t like included, is not the same as disbelieving something entirely.
The truth is that the MSM seem totally incapable of doing that.
What I do know is that it belies any seriousness about the matter when people tweet this sort of stuff when a ‘war’ is ongoing or imminent…..and makes me very sceptical of our ‘own side’…..
Richard Moore@ChiefMI6 with the tragedy and destruction unfolding so distressingly in Ukraine, we should remember the values and hard won freedoms that distinguish us from Putin, none more than LGBT+ rights. So let’s resume our series of tweets to mark #LGBTHM2022
In this podcast from Whitney Webb-Unlimited, Moscow based journalist, Riley Waggaman, talks about how Putin seems to be fully on board with Schwab’s COVID-19 plandemic, the gene therapies and how Russia is working with JP Morgan on a cryptocurrency.
Could you get any entity or person that is more Klaus Schwab or Cabal than JP Morgan?
Then there’s all the very wealthy Russian oligarchs that Putin allowed to flee to London, and who donated very generously to the Tory Party when they got there – and who then, of course, were given residential status. Evil despots usually don’t allow exiles to take vast fortunes with them as they are chased from their homelands. Alex Thomson, in the UK Column, reports on this.
Riley Waggaman also reports on how Putin recently allowed oligarchs to leave Russia with large hoards of gold bullion, and with no obligation on them to deposit the sale price in Russian banks.
Also, according to this Russian based journalist, Putin bought copious amounts of gene therapies from the West and repackaged them as being Russian manufactured and dished them out to the Russian people.
Many people to the Right of conservatives think that the oligarchs that fled to London and donated heavily to the Tories had fallen out with Putin and were exiled by him. This leads them to believe that these exiled oligarchs were of the Cabalist CBDC types, which in their conservative minds makes Putin a White nationalist and patriot.
I suspect, though, they are all part of the Schwab/Globalist scheme and it simply suits the New World Order to let people believe Putin had exiled them.
The CIA and other intelligence services use a form of psychological warfare to keep people unsure and confused by feeding them truths, half-truths and lies. When you feed citizens something that is half-truth and half-lie, a little bit of what they’ve been told will fit-in with what they already believe. So, you feed them lies mixed with truth over a period of time, and slowly the entire lie will be implanted in their heads. The CIA has used this technique along these lines for decades. And it has worked quite well for them.
The ploy of half-truths/half-lies might also be working to convince many people that Putin isn’t onboard with Schwab’s Great Reset. Not only on the Left do people think Putin was left with no option but to invade Ukraine, many on the Right also believe this, but for different reasons.
You have to hand it to them that they got people from opposite ends of the political spectrum to believe the same lie for different reasons.
The upshot of people believing this is that to them it’s proof that Putin isn’t in any way cooperating with the Globalist Elite that controls the West. Believing this removes any and all suspicions that the war in Ukraine is a distraction from the gene therapies and plandemic.
I suspect this war is further meant to distract both Left and Right when the Western pyramid scheme debt-based economies crash and burn in a couple of years. The penury will simply be the aftermath of the war.
Then the Chinese can come and set up slave factories in the West and make Whitey work for them for a change. I’ll bet they’ll get pleasure in setting up dormitories with bars on the windows to keep us Whites from jumping out and killing ourselves, rather than work 16 hours a day, seven day a week to make goods for our masters in the East.
Unfortunately, what you state is entirely possible. I’m hoping that Putin’s innate nationalism will save him from the WEF machinations. Hopefully this is his red line and the invasion is due to this. The alternative is just too much of a black pill.
The globalists have immense resources at their disposal and have clearly been planning this for decades. It’s foolish to think they aren’t playing 8D chess and Russia/Putin could be a part of the plan.
I feel that the main or sole remit of this site should be bringing back our pre-Mar. 2020 liberties. Above all, we have to be confident that our government can never again put us under solitary confinement or house arrest.
People here disagree on Ukraine and climate change. That’s normal in a free society. I support near-total free speech and the UK lack of it is dangerous.
I fear that we’d still be under worse restrictions, were it not for the Tory libertarians and those who generally supported them on the Labour left, plus the Lib.Dems. & Grn.
Do you mean our pre-Mar. 2020 liberties or our pre-Mar. 2020 illusion of our liberties?
WEDNESDAY 2 MARCH, 7:30PM discussion of the Human Rights Act Reform – What do the proposed changes really mean?
FREE ONLINE EVENT – LIVESTREAMED on Facebook. and YouTube
Keynote Speakers: Luke Gittos & Clare Wills Harrison; Chaired by Alan Miller
@Toby – I suggest you take your head out of the media, MSM, Twitter, or otherwise.
Just start concentrating on single things and try to get a clear grasp of them. You will get somewhere.
“(M)anufactured casus belli” – don’t be silly. That’s what you’re meant to think – “we” fight wars because we have to, “they” fight them because they’re crazy.
British government radio this morning was saying that Putin may find he’s in trouble when “the Russian people” realise their bank cards don’t work.
People should read that again: British government radio this morning was saying that Putin may find he’s in trouble when “the Russian people” realise their bank cards don’t work.
You have to be able to unpack such propaganda. It’s not hard. The poshboy British regime is trying to attack the Russian population, and they are whipping up the British population to think “hell yeah” – and, by extension, to accept major privations here.
It may only be a week or two before bank cards no longer work in Britain too.
And it’s all personified on to “mad” Putin, as in the 40s it was personified on to Hitler; in the mid-50s, Nasser; then later you got Idi Amin and Radovan Karadjic.
The British elite? They’re as clean as a whistle. In fact, they don’t exist and only antisocial loony conspiracy theorists would say they did. Am I getting it right?
Incidentally Jens Stoltenberg belongs to the same cult that some members of your family have belonged to.
Don’t panic just yet, they are far (well not that far but 2025 at least) from getting all their CBDC ducks in a row.
‘I’m not relying on the MSN’s coverage for my understanding of the pandemic, but, for the most part, ordinary doctors and nurses in the field, such as those included in the not-yet-censored by Twitter list compiled by someone and the list put together by someone else.
But even if I was relying on the BBC and CNN, what is it the sceptics think is misleading about the MSN’s reporting? Do they think the pandemic hasn’t really happened? Or that the MSN isn’t giving enough credence to the claim that sars-cov-2 is a fraud, namely, that government experts were acting as “gatekeepers” to discredit any data contradicting their official version of events, and partnering with MSN to attack the credibility of anyone calling them out for it?’
….
One minor quibble.
The likes of Schwab want Russia balkanised into ~20 sub-states, to ensure it can never rise to oppose their power to facilitate resource extraction by western corporations with local protection given by extremely corrupt local potentates.
Putin wants a string unified Russia, for all of its Russian citizens, irrespective of ethnicity.
Other than that, alles ist gut.
It’s sad seeing all the people who got red pilled during covid suddenly flip to “I stand with Ukraine” and seemly OK to just accept the official narrative at face value when there’s so much about this that is off.
Toby, you are correct. Some of you know my views on this invasion, which I gave a few days ago on this site.
It seems many ‘sceptics’ are unable to doubt their OWN scepticism, preferring to allow themselves to disappear into solipsism, rather than accept that this is Russian aggression all over again.
Do I now accept all MSM as infallible? No – and maybe all of us will change our view of the conflict in the future depending on events to come. But if we seriously entertain justifying Russian aggression (Putin’s, really), aren’t we forgetting the core values of ‘the West’, which are worth fighting for and upholding?
Let’s be critical, contrary even, but not let personal pride blind us to reality.
It’s funny you mention fighting for and upholding the core values of the West – that is precisely one of the reasons people don’t trust what is happening.
For at least the past decade some of us have realised that there has been systematic and intentional destruction of the core values of the West, including democratic representation and accountability, freedom of speech and protection of borders. The EU supposedly cares so much about Ukraine’s borders but has virtually destroyed those within and on the perimeter of the EU itself. We (well, me in any event, can’t speak for others) believe that the side-taking on Ukraine is part and parcel of the same systematic destruction. Von der Lying is already bleating that Ukraine needs to be accepted into the EU, even though those b’stards in Brussels know full well that the majority of people in western Europe at least do not even want the EU we have now, let alone further expansion.
This is not about whether or not Ukraine or any other former East bloc country is a fine country and suitable member state. It is about the fact that a handful of unelected politicians are playing at empire building, trying to destroy whole nation states to create some artificial ‘Europe’ and in doing so are intentionally destroying the various values that individual states hold, seeking to replace them with paper values that only benefit politicians and corporations.
Deleted
‘Core values of the west’ as in the war of aggression against Iraq based on total lies that resulted in the excess deaths of 500,000+ Iraqi civilians – but that’s not problem as they were poor coloured people living far away? Those ‘core values of the west’?
This is too much like pure politics to be a matter for a sceptic website I think? Scepticism is a tool for analysing specific claims of fact and it doesn’t really apply to opinions about the motivations and intentions of world leaders. Disdain or ambivalence in response to the media narrative on Ukraine is also not about scepticism. It might be the expected response of many (understandable cynicism) but it’s not even on the axis of scepticism. At the same time, arguments of persuasion that Putin is “bad” are not sceptical arguments. That’s not to say they are poor or wrong… they are just not related to a claim of fact .
I have to observe: so many commentators believe they can see and remember so clearly, but I haven’t met a single f***ing person yet who recalls that in 2017 Russia moved a lot of military force towards the Ukrainian border, and towards the west generally – including reportedly about 100000 troops – and there was talk then too that there might be an invasion, and there wasn’t one.
Is there anything about that on Sh*tter, Toby? Have any of your fellow “journalists” made any good reading lists about it? Are there any good Pootube videos? LOL
I’m not trying to build anything on the 2017 wargames-exercises-movements that is about the current war. I am simply observing how short almost everyone’s memory is – how easy they are to influence, to cause to remember this, to forget that, to think there’s a connection between this and that, to believe there’s no connection between that and this.
Oh and what was the cause for NATO even continuing to exist, let alone expanding, after 1991 again? Protecting us all, was it?
Talking of short memories
Let’s head back to 2008. The US suckers Sakaashvili, president of Georgia, into attacking Russian peacekeepers between S. Ossetia and Georgia, telling his Russia was weak and would not respond. After killing some Russian troops, Sakaahvili found his military totally and systematically trashed by Russian forces who came in and left as soon as the job was done.
Never let bad news go to waste, if the Government can divert attention from it’s omnicovidshambles then war is the best cover there is.
What kind of developments in the near future would make you reconsider that view?
I don’t even know what you mean by “bad news”. NATO has been planning for war for years. They’re in seventh heaven that Russia invaded the Ukraine. Kolomoysky’s comedian Zelensky has been made to dance towards that aim ever since he was put into office.
Bad news as in war!
I don’t think I will ever change my mind in thinking Governments will use “bad news” to divert attention away from other things, that’s just what they do. This war is the greatest distraction from Covid Government could ask for.
As for your assessment that NATO has been planning this was for years and are in heaven over it, well I have no knowledge on that.
Just to point out that actors do get into politics, Ronald Reagan and Arnold Schwarzenegger jump to mind, it’s nothing new, does that mean they were puppets too?
This is basically a case of putting the opposing arguments as weakly as possible, so that they can be easily dismissed. I’ve dealt with most of these points anyway in my several longish comments here over the past few days. I’ll try to come back later with a full response, but for now:
At the core of Toby’s response is the dismissal of reality on sentimental grounds. He asserts that reference to the underlying reality of the situation is “essentially the argument of Stop the War Coalition”, and he goes on to make the essentially emotive argument that reality can’t (or mustn’t) be taken into account because “NATO didn’t force the countries to join NATO”.
Fundamentally this is as infantile as the position of panickers at the beginning of 2020 dismissing calls for rationality as “uncaring people putting money ahead of lives”.
Regardless of whether lefty loons agree with it, the reality of the Ukraine situation has been pointed out time and time again by numerous analysts and commenters who are the absolute polar opposite of Stop the War or hard left. Peter Hitchens is one, who is familiar to sceptics because he was one of the few who saw through the covid panic,and it’s no coincidence imo that he has seen through the anti-Russian propaganda and emotive manipulation, as he saw through the covid propaganda and similar emotive manipulation. The best informed exposition of this explanation of basic reality is by Professor John Mearsheimer. Here he is in 2015 running through the position:
Why is Ukraine the West’s Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer
Prof Mearsheimer is regarded as being a member of the school of international relations thinking known as “realism”, and that’s because he and they prefer to analyse the world as it really is, rather than introducing the kind of sentimental moralising hand-waving that Toby Young and most mainstream US sphere analysts rely upon.
Realism in Foreign Policy Analysis
Related to all this is the determination of mainstreamers like Young to refer to fantasies of a “rules-based order” that Russia supposedly threatens, with its resort to force to achieve its policy goals. This fantasy is directly contradicted by the experience of the past 30 years, with the dominant global power and/or its proxies such as the UK having resorted to extra-legal force repeatedly, in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria.
You can’t simultaneously appeal to a “rules based order” and approve a (supposedly) morality based arbitrariness for your own side’s actions. This is the thinking of a child. Either we are all bound by the rules, or we all do what we see at morally right and/or necessary.
(That’s not to say that there can’t be a rules based order if there are any crimes at all unpunished. The problem here is not merely that some crimes have gone unpunished, but that the most powerful entity sees itself as unbound by the supposed rules.)
If I get time I’ll come back to run through Toby’s piece in more detail, but that’s the core of it. Much of the problem is that Toby just is not aware of the underlying realities, and is unwilling to accept the degree to which he has been lied to and manipulated by those who play on some of his core weaknesses – appeals to patriotism, to simplistic morality and sympathy, etc. This is not a theory about a Delingpole-esque global ruling conspiracy, merely a reference to the self-evidently true fact of the existence of conspiracies to manipulate opinion in the US sphere, as witnessed in a particularly incontrovertible manner recently by Russiagate, and by the broader dishonest manipulation of opinion on covid by the mainstream US sphere media.
“If I get time I’ll come back to run through Toby’s piece in more detail”.
Don’t get sucked in.
You’ll be better off making sure you’ve stocked up on food and fuel and drawn some cash out in preparation for when there’s a run on the banks and the banking system goes to poop.
Don’t get sucked in to the opposite position either! Preps are a good hedge, but don’t panic.
Watch the debt markets, the 10yr yield is probably one of the best indicators, when that starts to go parabolic, that’s the time to rush out and stock up to hunker down.
It’s sounds better in a NY accent tho: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20O7dB89CZk
Create enough chaos and people will be willing to accept much more manipulation to restore calm, I believe this was mentioned at the beginning of convid
It is worth saying this in Toby’s defence, however. This kind of issue is exactly what a “Daily Sceptic” should exist to allow free debate upon, and it is to his credit if he avoids any temptation to suppress or shut down dissent against the mainstream position which, in this case, he supports.
As always, the principle must be that the expression of opinion and argument can never be regarded as harmful per se. That is the principle that is under severe threat in the modern US sphere.
Sceptics are the people who pour cold water over hysteria by asking the awkward question: do you have any evidence for that? Take away the sceptics, and it is like taking away the dampers on a car suspension, or turning up the volume on a sound system: public discourse begins to amplify the hysteria, it never gets countered by the sceptics and instead we get people believing in more and more hysteria until we get mass delusion.
We need people to be sceptics and to ask the awkward questions that bring the discussion down to earth and back to the facts … and without it, we get the mass delusion of covid, of climate and inevitable something like WWIII or the Totalitarian regimes that committed so many atrocities in the early 20th century. (German National Socials, Communist, etc.)
Jesus, if we have to be grateful for that, then things really are getting bad.
In my lifetime I’ve repeatedly seen avenues for dissent from the prevailing pc order more or less controlled and restricted, by people who claimed to believe absolutely in “free speech”.
I’m not going to just take it on faith that Toby will ultimately prove any different.
They have to give us somewhere to air grievence, a pressure release valve, an outlet for outrage.
Otherwise the pressure builds up, and the vessel explodes in unpredictable ways, they don’t like unpredictability.
We do, and they are
The news utterly flooded to the brim with no other story but
covid/Climate/ UK-Rain … just wait for them to start using that as an excuse for further removals of the freedom of speech, to protest, to be sceptical … and watch minister’s bank accounts swell as Joe BuyThem, pays back his backers.I’m in a lot of trouble when they start cracking-down because I am apparently an anti-vaxxer, CO2 denier, Putin-loving, racist, unintelligent, science-denying, extreme-right, gender-terrorist (OK, the first two are sort of true). I wonder how long it will be before they lump all of this into a single word. Perhaps “thought-criminal” would be appropriate? Off to the Ministry of Love for me I guess.
What a stroke of luck for the elites that, after 2 years of questioning things, many so-called conservatives are back to parroting the regime propaganda. Of course, some never stopped. Toby was a rare outlier of which I will forever be eternally grateful. On this, however, he is disatrously wrong.
Putin is a gangster and the invasion of Ukraine is a monstrous evil. However, one can explain what led to it without justifying it. As has been stated elsewhere, treating Russia as if it has no security interests directly on its border is not only foolish but such low-grade thinking that it is almost astonishing. I suppose after the ‘Harvard Boys” pillaged Russia on behalf of Wall St in the 90s no one thought Russia would ever be in a position to assert itself and its interests ever again (which was partly the goal).
This “whatboutery” charge is always argued by people (on all sides) in bad faith. Toby himself does it when he says about the Stop the War Coalition that “it’s rooted in the hard left’s long-standing opposition to Western imperialism and its associated blindspot when it comes to the imperial ambitions of China, the Soviet Union and now Russia – hence Stop the War’s noisy opposition to David Cameron’s proposal to join the U.S. in bombing regime targets in Syria but conspicuous silence about Russia’s bombing on behalf of the Syrian regime”.
Whataboutery can help explain why the US and UK have no moral authority to speak about any other state’s aggression. Again, for the midwit-brained, this does not justify Putin’s behaviour, but why should Putin restrain himself when others face zero consequences for their monstrous invasions and meddling in other countries.
There is plenty more that could be said but for those who are interested in following the unfolding disaster in Ukraine, you can do no better than antiwar.com. It is run by good right wing libertarian types. Although, look away Toby, they sometimes dare to platform leftists who are very well versed in foreign policy and are indeed anti-imperialism, which is the correct conservative position as well.
Are there any consertives left in Britain that have the country’s best interest in mind? Or is it back to business as usual?
Oh dear.
Toby Young has basically admitted that his scepticism only started 2 years ago.
Some of us have been sceptics for decades.
The West and it’s presstitutes in the main stream media dictate every narrative that is friendly to US (and it’s poodles) interests.
Almost everything we have been told for decades is not the truth.
Ukraine is no exception.
The West has been poking The Bear since the fall of the Berlin Wall and the break up of the Soviet Union.
Instead of aiding the fledgling democracy they have undermined it at every turn.
I stand with Russia against The West using Ukrainians as a tool to advance and enhance US hegemony.
There are hundreds of articles detailing the cause of Russia’s incursion into Ukraine.
Here is one with a brief timeline.
https://off-guardian.org/2022/02/24/timeline-euromaidan-the-original-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR1J7-ydhh0hE2uXdbO6gXkyVl1sSfO3qaBS2TEZ0jULea7Qru1QR3yFsSo
You are right in principle and everyone should stick to their principles, no matter what is going on and who they like. However, one can always have two tier mind, where they safeguard their principles but also find an understanding of the situation. Asking yourself questions that give you a chance to answer them perfectly is a form of a strawman argument? As someone who has felt the boot of NATO in a civil war, I will always oppose these kind of wars, but I understand. It’s the lion and the hyenas story at its best.
Extraordinarily naive position. As was always the case with the ‘pandemic’ … I suggest much deeper research!
I can’t see that this has been posted already, so here goes.
Quite. It’s not that Western governments and media are definitely lying, it’s about knowing that they are definitely hiding truths. And if you haven’t got that after the last two years, then you’re a lost cause. This is all about critical thinking – the same critical thinking that all led us here in the first place. Very surprised to see that Toby seems incapable of doing that with war, but perfectly able to do that with experimental vaccines. It shows a mental block, probably deeply entrenched in his thinking from years of peer groupthink.
It took a long time for this site (above the line) to even come around to the idea that experimental “vaccination” during an alleged pandamic perhaps might not be a genius idea. The articles still get caveated now to try and pretend that there might be some hidden benefit of so-called vaccination, to some narrow group, despite the evidence. I’m still not sure this site has even got past the “it’s all just a cock-up” opinion. Despite Toby being pretty slow to cotton on, I’m glad we actually have this site, as the comments and links (thanks Swedenborg) are one of the best places for a critical thinker to research.
Russle Brand gets to represent the skeptical side now? Seriously? LOL Toby, classic stawmanery. Do you even understand the concept of controlled opposition? Look who he was engaged to for starters, the circles he was running in, there’s your clue.
Without spending all day crafting a rebuttal, all we have to do is look at the history of central banking.
Starting premise: All wars are bankers wars. Period. All warmongers are banksters puppets. We’re talking old money here, all the original “shareholders” of the crental banks, you want names? Sorry that’s covered by the official secrets act, we only get pointers from history.
Strategic aims: As explained from one of the globalist banksters “foriegn relations” organs themselves (ignore the title, just spend 10 mins listening to them from 1995): https://www.bitchute.com/video/4x0jpl7GCzBn/
We know them not by words, but by deeds.
What happened as soon as the wheels fell off the “pseudo-pandemic”? Inflation, central banks had no excuse to continue the money printing extravaganza, interest rates started to rise, threatening loss of control of the engineered collapse of the west prematurely (2030 being the target date). They needed a huge distraction, they got one, an all purpose, a distraction that can be blamed for all the worlds ills, and used as an excuse to further global totalitarian technocracy.
Putin effectively bailed out the central banks, the markets “plunged” then rebounded within one single day as the printing presses started up again.
The war/Putin can now be blamed for the whole financial mess, inflation – Putins fault, falling standards of living – Putins fault, rising energy prices – Putins fault, more immigration – Putins fault. All the while shovelling money up to the top of the food chain.
Russia, China, and the West are all playing their parts on TV whilst behind the scenes they are all planning CBDCs sat at the same fucking table, in the same fucking room. They all piss in the same central banking pot.
My heart goes out the the people of Ukraine forced to fight for their homes, also to the young Russian conscripts forced to war (with threat of violence by all accounts). Some have had the sense to abandon it all, multiple examples of empty Russian vehicles abandoned by the roadsidess, unforunately many are more brainwashed by the mainstream propaganda, from all sides, just as Mr. Young is.
All wars are Bankers wars.
^^^^^^^^^^^ this!
Be sceptical about this Toby.
I just read on Dutch media that Zelensky has applied for immediate accession to the EU.
What? I thought he was busy leading his country in a struggle of life and death. What would joining the EU have to do with his current rather larger problem?
As we know, the EU has no army – letting Ukraine join now would give them the impetus to start the machinations for a European army. This weekend there was some seeding of the idea that Dutch people were doing internet searches about conscription (ended in the late 90s). Why? They didn’t do so for either Iraq invasion, for Afghanistan, for Syria.. I don’t believe for a second people are concerned there will be conscription, this is just nudging people to accept the need for it.
I also just heard a Dutch political commentator saying that if Ukraine were to ask to join the EU, the majority of Dutch people would be in favour because they feel for them right now. WTF? The same country that has been bitching and moaning about all the MENA refugees? Is he suggesting that if asked in 2015 the majority of the Dutch population would have been happy to accept Syria or Iraq as a member of the EU? Again, a clear nudge. People in Europe may feel for Ukrainian citizens, why in the ever loving world would this translate to them wanting the country to join the EU? I am now more convinced them ever that this whole debacle has been planned.
Such depth!. Such wisdom! Such lack of research into even the last 8 years in Ukraine since Maidan – ever since the US backed overthrow of the democratic government.
Only TweedleTob, that ever the blinkered mainstream/government propagandist, is capable of such nuance – just as he was on promoting government EGT policy.
I suppose after two years of such controlled opposition he must be getting really quite adept at this kind of thing, in between frolicking with TweedleDel that is.
In a few years time, hopefully, people will be scratching their heads at why footballers came out for matches while draped in the new fascist Ikea type flag – just as much as why they all took the knee the year before.
Agreed. Look for images of “Alley of Angels”, a memorial to the civilians who have died in the past eight years.
You have highlighted the worst part of TY’s crappy piece.
Tis is realpolitik. Russia sees NATO as an existential threat and sceptics can get as emotional as they like – if this matter isn’t sorted you’ll be posting stuff like #Istandwithsadisq’slondon – rather you won’t, because the grid and the internet will be down and you’ll be more concerned about getting through the rubble.
I’m sorry Toby but you’ve engaged in some very tricksy sleight of hand logic there. You’ve made the logical progression that because the argument that NATO provoked Russia is also held by the Stop The War coalition, and the STW bunch are a bunch of nutters, therefore the argument is wrong. Without actually addressing that argument at all. You’ve just smeared it by association.
Your point about the MSM is also nonsensical – it is basically that yes the MSM have lied through their teeth throughout the last 2+ covid years, but hey, you can believe everything they say now!
The fact is we (the public in the West) have no real way of knowing what is going on the Ukraine, or why, for good or bad. And its no good looking at the net etc for viral videos of ‘Russian tanks being blown up’ or whatever, because as covid proved with its videos of random Chinese people collapsing in the street, what ends up on twitter is often there for a purpose other than what it purports to show. We are being shown whatever the authorities want us to see, and told what they want to tell us, and no conclusions can be drawn from that.
Its not that we war sceptics love Putin or something, its that we no longer trust our ruling class or the MSM to tell us the truth on anything. So when they say ‘Putin is the next Hitler!’ we think ‘You said that about Trump, and Boris, and the Canadian Truckers, and Trump voters, and Brexit voters etc etc etc. Why should we believe you now? You are serial liars, you have no credibility’.
Indeed. He has engaged in the logical error known as the Genetic Fallacy.
Post Covid anger and confusion needed to be kettled and refocused. Perhaps it will distract from the story below this one about damage to DNA, or untimely 2016 Moderna patents or Sir Jeremy Farrar’s burner phones and the evil Fauci.
Putin happy to play the part – obvs. A tussle in Ukraine is collateral damage and wholly immaterial to these people. National sovereignty and borders are concepts to abuse and misdirect ‘the plebs’.
Toby’s take on Syria is the giveaway here.
Yes. Putin is a wolf.
So are Biden, NATO&co.
Google Mackinder, Brzeszinski, Bandera, the MIC&co etc. to understand what’s really behind all this.
And/or just read the pieces below.
There are plenty more.
And no, that doesn’t justify his invasion, it only explains it and our role and joint responsibility for what led to it and what might still happen.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/02/thomas-luongo/putin-ushers-in-the-new-geopolitical-game-board/
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2022/february/25/washingtons-crocodile-tears-over-ukraines-destruction/
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/experts-warned-years-nato-expansion-would-lead
Toby supported the Iraq war – I’m shocked that he was in the same League of Evil as Bush and Blair.
reminds me of the author of the Black Swan (can’t recall his name) who wrote of the characteristics of the IYI (intellectual yet idiot) class. “Inability to apprehend second order consequences.” eg Getting rid of Saddam is a good thing, but doing that has severe consequences like an internal civil war etc.
Mind you, I tick some of the boxes fro the IYI class – like going to literary festivals in the days when they were permitted.
“Toby supported the Iraq war – I’m shocked that he was in the same League of Evil as Bush and Blair.”
Like so many conservatives, he was sucked into supporting the attack on Iraq by the same kinds of manipulation that have been used to suck him into supporting the anti-Russian cause – appeals to patriotism, militarism, the idea that not acting is “appeasement”, empty shroud-waving and emotional manipulation.
The disappointing thing is that he learned nothing from the Iraq experience.
I watched An Inconvenient Truth and was momentarily mesmerised by it. It still pains me to admit it.
“reminds me of the author of the Black Swan (can’t recall his name) who wrote of the characteristics of the IYI (intellectual yet idiot) class. “Inability to apprehend second order consequences.” “
One of the great ironies of the recent nonsense was that Taleb himself fell hard for the covid panic. Hook, line, sinker and copy of Angling Times…
I accept that Russell Brand is a bit of a Marmite commentator and, as such, he’s not everyone’s cup of tea. However, with regard to Ukraine, I think he’s bang on the money. To paraphrase him, he sums up the whole situation perfectly with this little epithet: ‘The era of good guys vs bad guys is long gone – they’re bad guys now‘.
I found this article disappointing and more than a tad condescending.
It is a lazy and tiresome tactic to dismiss anyone who highlights Western hypocrisy as engaging in “whataboutism” – to do this is basically to say “It’s alright when we do it. And don’t you dare question it or we’ll slap a silly pejorative label on you.” Bit reminiscent of the “anti vaxxer” slur for me.
To write an article as large as you have but not mention the 2014 coup once is telling. In fact, it’s not good enough. The US pumped 5.4 billion into destroying the existing Ukrainian government at the time, something which played a massive part in the crisis we now face. This needed to be addressed in the article and it wasn’t. Serious question: did you support this CIA meddling in the affairs of Ukraine at the time? If not why not? If so why?
I’m tempted to detail the exhaustive list of all the other nations the US has overthrown since the end of World War Two, many of them democracies, but I’d no doubt be accused of “whataboutism” – perish the thought – and the list is so long I’d be here all evening. William Blum’s excellent book Killing Hope is a superb source for further info though.
And your support for the Iraq war cannot go without a brief mention, which you say was justified because Saddam “was a baddie.” Really? I think you can do better than that. See, I can do condescending too. Said “baddie” came to prominence after a CIA coup in 63 installed the Ba’ath party in Iraq. No CIA coup then no Saddam. This was described by the CIA man responsible as his “favorite coup”. And the war you supported to get a “baddie” killed somewhere in the region of a million men, women and children, created 4 million refugees and poisoned the country with depleted uranium. On this last point, if anyone has the stomach just type “depleted uranium Iraq” into Google and hit images. It is a vision of hell and we, the West, did it.
Peter Hitchens makes some useful comments in his recent Mail on Sunday articles. But also check out the demographics of Ukraine. A sizeable proportion, albeit a minority, are Russian speakers, and wish to remain under Russian influence. Ironically, some of those supported by the West are fascists. The civil war has been ongoing since the West forced a coup to replace the previous government – we should be campaigning for peace between both sides. It’s not Russia that’s pushed Ukraine to the brink of war | Seumas Milne | The Guardian
Yes.
Seumas Milne.
God help us. Thought we’d seen the last of that immature idiot
The link is to an article that is 7 years old so maybe you don’t need to worry!
I don’t comment often these days but I have to say I’m pretty disappointed with this article. It strikes me as remarkably naive. As has so often been the case over recent times I feel Neil Oliver has an altogether more appropriate – yet equally considered – view on the matter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz5cNzgF1-U
I hope someone is keeping tabs on China, they are playing a wait and see approach to this. The opportunity to invade Taiwan is definitely being considered.
“Why should we trust its coverage of the war in Ukraine?”
Well, I don’t know, but I’d hold up the extraordinary amount of photographic and video ‘evidence’ that is being put before us, to illustrate the Ukraine war effort, that is from different theatres and even includes footage ‘clipped’ from a video game, as a reason to be sceptical about it?
I’m not sure the examples about the differences between Russia and the USA are the best, let’s break them down one by one:
Democratic elections:
Highly questionable. Spying by one campaign on another using the resources of federal agencies and secret courts (FISA)?
The rule of law:
Ask the Jan 6th political prisoners vs BLM rioters who got let off without charge
A free press:
Big Tech censoring the New York Post on behalf of the Biden campaign. The hounding out of Bari Weiss and others at the NYT for ‘wrongthink’
Religious tolerance:
For some, not others.
Individual rights
Vaccine mandates, no jab no job?
Protection of minorities
Unless you are a minority who is unvaccinated.
He is doubtless a wolf. But it follows that the “West” – meaning essentially the USA – provoking him for years was a profoundly stupid and reckless policy.
Its purpose was not to benefit the people of the West but to benefit the US Establishment – aka “The Swamp”, the “Deep State”.
Oh God, what a bloody shambles. Poor sodding Ukrainians. Indeed, poor sodding Russian conscripts.
I just don’t know where to start so I don’t think I’ll bother.
Putin is a wolf, Biden is a wolf, Johnson is a wolf – the delusional bit is that “the West” has high motives, speaking as someone who comes from the far middle of yesteryear the posturing (virtue signalling as it is now) fills me with nausea. The US & UK could have fixed this with discretion and diplomacy but they never wanted too. What we need to do is keep our eye on all their anti libertarian tricks at home in the next weeks.
Is war, economics writ large(stealing other people’s stuff in the end)?
If so, should we not rather be looking closer to home rather than Russian?
If you find this hard to consider, read the work of Henry George, the utterly unjust social institution called taxation when Ch ribs the hard working, and the outright robbery of the other known as private property in land.
Mr. Young, your father was a labour peer. He would have known about Mr. George. Yet you seem oblivious to this. What planet have you been living on, planet privilege?
Apologies for typo. Should read”which robs”
another stealth georgist here!
“How should sceptics respond to Russias invasion of the Ukraine”? With scepticism of course.
I was only a child when the Cuban missile crises occurred but I remember my parents and other adults being worried about the situation. At the time it was portrayed that the USSR was the aggressor by putting missiles on Cuba and Kennedy became a hero for getting the USSR to remove the missiles. Years later it transpired that the USSR put missies on Cuba because the USA had built a missile base in Turkey on the USSRs border. The Russians removed the missile on Cuba when the USA dismantled their base in Turkey. So who was the aggressor, I’d say the USA. What this has taught me, is not to believe anything politicians or the MSM say as it’s probably spin and lies. We probably don’t know what’s really going on in the Ukraine behind closed doors, but the truth will probably come out in 20 to 30 years time.
Totally agree. I am of similar vintage and remember well as a teenager sitting in school full of trepidation on the day we’d been told the world might end. But careful or we’ll be labelled as ‘whatabouterists’…
Agreed. Not sure why Mr. Young is apologising again. Am beggining to side with Mr. Dellingpole
The aggressor was the totalitarian Soviet Union. Dead easy.
Anyone who paid even a passing attention to the UK gov’s preposterous Skripal narrative and does not question it – and by extension much else of what we’re told about Putin – is no sceptic at all. Its as simple as that.
I can do little more than point you to David Starkey’s video of the weekend “Putin’s Power & Western Impotence”.
https://youtu.be/he25Rl0fE1c
which runs down the historically different view Russia has of the world.
The media in the West is in full propaganda mode that reminds me more of reporting on a Barnet vs Chelsea match and how Barnet are ‘putting up a good fight’ than anything else.
It would be rather amazing if the fourth largest armed force on earth could not subdue Ukraine.
Similarly the nonsense about ‘financial sanctions’ can have no effect on a country with its own currency, that floats that currency independently and which has no sovereign debt denominated in a foreign currency.
Putin can use the ruble to direct any of the resources within Russia to the Russian war machine. You tax somebody in rubles, and they either work for rubles or you throw them in the Gulag. Very simple. There’s a wonderful line in Keynes’s “How to Pay for the Way” that states: “In a totalitarian state the problem of the distribution of sacrifice does not exist. That is one of its initial advantages for war”.
I would recommend everybody read it. It shows that war is not funded with US dollars. It is funded by manpower, energy and industrial production – which Russia has by the boatload.
In the West we don’t. We think we can eat press-releases and ‘re-wilded’ farmland while warming ourselves with thicker jumpers.
Agreed, in the final analysis, isn’t money, labour in exchangeable form? But not the daft idea that it’s the cost of labour that created some wealth(dumb Marxism). But the labour one can avoid at the point of exchange! Keynes was almost there. George nailed it in The Science of Political Economy. Alas, it was so right, its become forbidden knowledge within our academies of learning, for very good reason. You won’t have read it or heard if it yet. Give it a stab and a lot of possible answers emerge from the chaos.
money is a shortage mediated exchange of time (100 quid is 1 hour of a productive person and 10 hours of a cleaner as everyone can clean) and a portion of economic rent
Russia is no more (or not much more) a “totalitarian state” than we are. Which is to say that both have totalitarian aspects, but neither is full on totalitarian in nature.
As for “‘financial sanctions’ can have no effect on a country with its own currency, that floats that currency independently and which has no sovereign debt denominated in a foreign currency”, this is a rather drastic over-statement. There’s no doubt that dollar sanctions can’t destroy Russia’s economy as they could many other countries’, but it’s equally inarguable that they will do harm and the Russian leadership doesn’t like them.
They didn’t deter action in the Ukraine because the Ukraine is a core strategic interest for Russia and matters more, not because sanctions, financial and other, don’t matter at all.
“but it’s equally inarguable that they will do harm and the Russian leadership doesn’t like them.”
How will it do harm? So Russia can’t settle in US dollars, therefore they will say to whoever is selling them stuff that they will have to take rubles or no deal.
Similarly they can demand rubles for their gas and oil and refuse to sell any if they don’t want to obtain rubles and pay them (from people receiving rubles for items sold to Russia).
At base the only reason to export is to obtain imports. If there are no imports to be had, then there is little point wasting manpower producing items for export. They are better used producing items for the war machine.
It’s only lack of physical items that matter, and Russia has nothing it needs coming in via imports – only wants.
The question is does the West need Gas and Wheat?
They will do harm by harming or inconveniencing Russians who need or want to do business with the US sphere (and such of the rest of the world that goes along with it).
I’d suggest they should believe neither side and watch how things unfold. Whatever you might think of Putin’s reasons for his gamble, the signs have been there for some time. He’s complained long and hard about the EU and NATO interfering in what he considers his bailliwick. He’s got parts of Europe over a barrel regarding gas supplies (their fault, not his). And the US has Sleepy Joe and Giggly Kamala in the hot seat(s).
I’m definitely not qualified to comment on the economic effects on Russia of this adventure, but I’d imagine that Putin has done more homework on the matter than most governments did on their response to Covid.
Hunter Biden is up to his neck in Ukrainian bribes cant be helping either.
Ukraine is to the Biden’s what Hiati was to the Clintons.
Yup, making money off the back of a ‘middleman’ company reselling Russian gas.
Not hard to see why the yanks are so opposed to Nordstream 2
Sanctions always harm most those who impose them. See the results of protectionism in all nations in every time and place. For those sanctions are targeted against, it depends on if they can strike the same bargain with demand from elsewhere. In this huge world, that is almost certain.
Also, decentralisation is growing stronger daily, wether you like bitcoin or not, these events are driving its benefits hard. And Russia is not against it. This will be the thing which divides Russian from the CCP
FEMA gives instructions Covid distancing in the event of nuclear war
https://www.nationandstate.com/2022/02/27/fema-in-case-of-nuclear-explosion-maintain-social-distancing-and-wear-a-mask/
Incredibly naive analysis. A quick look at the map is enough to see why Russia feels threatened by NATO imperialism.
I think Toby needs to have a chat with Peter Hitchens who seems to be better informed about Russia and the West.
By better informed, in the case of Peter Hitchens, you mean the voice of the conservative social justice hipster who doesn’t have any actual views of his own, he just waits to see the way wind blows then goes the opposite way.
Anything Peter Hitchens gets right is entirely by accident.
Putin is his ideal politician, a theocratic anti-capitalist thug.
When leaders decide to start a war it should be a legal requirement that they lead their men into battle
Yes, this is why Putin and Vitali Klitschko should have a boxing match.
Great idea, but since the real quarrel is between Moscow and Washington, it should be Putin versus Biden.
MMA rules.
But since it isn’t Biden’s country being invaded, Vitali Klitschko can have his fight with Putin, the embodiment of mystic cultism.
It’ll be a combination of different aspects of some of the above.
1st world nations lost their citizens trust over covid 19. It’s indisputable that We’ve been coerced and lied to.
those same institutions who lied to us now want our trust, while still living to us about covid.
it’s undeniable what’s going on in Ukraine but the US didn’t appreciate nukes in Cuba, turns out the Russians don’t want NATO on their front door.
the US have lots of assets in Ukraine and have been subverting soviet efforts at enticing Ukraine into closer ties with Russia. Much of Ukraine is of Russian affiliation and so this was always going to cause tension and friction, Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan are obvious examples of American interference in regions, including regions who wanted their help.
Putin is clearly the baddy here, the problem is our side are not exactly the good guys.
As James Corbett so eloquently puts it, “A choice between the two wings of the same bird of prey is no choice at all.”
https://corbettreport.substack.com/p/the-ukraine-crisis-what-you-need?utm_source=url
Putin did the right thing. If he had done nothing then Zelensky, armed by the West would have invaded Crimea and Donbass, killing many Russians and then put NATO missiles in Ukraine, pointed at Russia. Putin´s pre-emptive strike neutralised Ukraine´s military and avoided all that
Sceptics should at the very least construct grown up analyses of the situation that go beyond ‘Russia has invaded Ukraine because Putin is evil’ which is the level of analysis to be found in all of the mainstream news sources Toby mentions. Or ‘Russia has invaded Ukraine because Putin wants to restore the USSR’ – ignorant and naive to the extreme.
Context is everything. There seems to be an enormous effort to paint this attack as out of the blue and ‘unprovoked’ – this of course isn’t true, and the origins of this conflict date back to 2014, and further if you consider how many treaties and agreements the United States has arrogantly torn up since the early 90s. It was Bush II who installed WMDs in Poland aimed at Russia during the ‘War on Terror’ and then tried to claim that Russia had no right to feel threatened by this.
I’ve looked at the images of devastation in Ukraine and I am appalled and disgusted. I am anti-war. But I am also aware that I saw no images of the devastation wreaked in Donetsk and Lugansk since 2014 because Western media did not consider this important and it would have clouded an issue they wanted western audiences to see in pantomime terms. Russia bad. Putin bad. Ukraine good. We’re better than this, aren’t we? We certainly should be after the last two years.
And why can’t we compare this to any of America’s military adventures over the past say 50 years? Arguably their naked imperialism, complete lawlessness, impunity and deception has set the standard for what will probably be a very violent and unstable new century. If America as the Superpower can drop bombs on any foreign country it chooses anywhere in the world, why can’t Russia or China do the same?
^^^^^^^^^^^^
From the comments on here, it is clear that many members hold different views to those of Toby. These differences are unlikely to be resolved quickly.
Without underestimating the seriousness of what is happening in Ukraine nor denying the need for discussion…
I believe there are other ISSUES THAT NEED TO URGENTLY BE GIVEN HIGH PROMINENCE on Daily Sceptic:
Governments signing up to give control to WHO in certain circumstances. (Happening today?)
Imminent legislative changes that severely threaten our freedoms
Human Rights Act reforms
Online Harms Bill
Police Protection Act (correct name?)
I totally agree, which is why I’m starting to think this conflict is a smokescreen.
It also plays into the EU’s narrative of strengthening their defensive capabilities.
My biggest worry is your first point, the WHO’s attempt at a power grab from sovereign nations.
Look. BBC predicting cyber attack on ‘Western Institutions’ – here we go…
Poor Frank, it used to be that only Ambassadors were honest men sent abroad to lie for their countries, not it seems that reporters for media outlets are required to do the same.
I think that following the end of WW2, Ukraine was meant to be a neutral buffer between Russia and NATO, and Russia did sacrifice some land in order to create Ukraine. But from what I understand, Ukraine wants to join NATO, so that makes Russia concerned.
Even if all of this is true, it’s still not in any way, shape, or form, justification for launching a deadly war and threatening the rest of the world with nuclear war. So while I may be (very slightly) ambivalent about Russia’s reasoning, I am most definitely not ambivalent about their chosen course of action.
“I think that following the end of WW2, Ukraine was meant to be a neutral buffer between Russia and NATO, and Russia did sacrifice some land in order to create Ukraine.”
Ukraine has always existed as a border region between Russia and its western and southern neighbours. The borders shift and different bits have achieved or lost independence, but it was part of the Russian Empire for more than a hundred years before the disaster of WW1 led to a brief independence before it was reincorporated by the Soviets, and it is chock full of Russians and Russian speakers. By WW2 it was absolutely a core part of the Russian dominated USSR, not any kind of buffer.
“But from what I understand, Ukraine wants to join NATO, so that makes Russia concerned.”
The question to ask is why does NATO still exist, thirty years after the threat it was designed to face disappeared?
“Even if all of this is true, it’s still not in any way, shape, or form, justification from launching a deadly war and threatening the rest of the world with nuclear war. So while I may be (very slightly) ambivalent about Russia’s reasoning, I am most definitely not ambivalent about their chosen course of action.”
Russia does not have the luxury of indulging in questions of moral justification – it lives in a brutal world in which it is directly menaced by a far more powerful enemy state that has an established and recent track record of using force to achieve its goals and to attack states that do not kowtow.
You can judge all you want, but in doing so, all you are achieving is to choose a side in that ultimately lawless and amoral fight to the death.
The root cause of the fighting in the Ukraine today, as far as it rests with any modern state actor, is in US sphere policy over the past 25 years, for which there is no possible justification of necessity as applies, arguably, to the Russian response.
I do wonder about these supra-national bodies – they’re very similar to cabinets too – they only ever expand and exist far beyond what is necessary. NATO should have been wound up following the defeat of Communism in the East, or they should have stood up to China and stopped that growth (but it was too tantalising to get their hands on cheap goods and labour).
Spreading into the Baltics is hardly in the North Atlantic… I would like to see the UK Cabinet (not really relevant) cut back to the high offices of state and the rest devolved to local government. Same with NATO – it should shrink back to size and then the countries left (Germany, France, UK and US should make their minimum commitments of 2% and they should cease empire building and getting involved outside the North Atlantic theatre)
Being a border region and being an internationally recognized state are two very different things.
Presently, Russia had no reason to violently invade Ukraine.
“Presently, Russia had no reason to violently invade Ukraine.”
Clearly that’s false.
Presumably you mean “no reason that you regard as just”. But since you deny Russia’s very evident (and actually hard to objectively contest) view that it faces an existential threat from the US and its NATO military alliance, why would Russia, or anyone else who sees Russia’s point on that, take your position remotely seriously?
The US is suffused with hatred of Russia, is the only state to have actually used nuclear weapons to destroy entire cities of civilians, has a recent track record of waging aggressive and illegal wars to destroy states that fail to kowtow to it (and of using NATO to do so), and is committed to an intolerant ideological woke zealotry that brooks no comprises or limits.
Personally, I believe the Russians are correct to be cautious.
Hard to contest? There have been no NATO troop movements towards Russia. NATO has only been installing defences. Half of Europe is dependant on Russian gas. There is no reason to believe any such attack was imminent. It’s not up to me to contest this. It is up to you to show any sign in the past decade that NATO was trying to attack Russia.
Communism in the US is on the rise. It is very common to be openly communist in US colleges. People show up to class with hammer and sickle tshirts. Politicians are openly communist. Biden has economic interests in Ukraine. Hillary too. What are you talking about?
80 years and 13 presidents ago.
That woke zealotry has 0 interest in going to war, especially against Russia. If anything, that woke zealotry has deeply eroded the US military system.
From “caution” to “let destroy Kiev and get the nukes on standby” is a heck of a long road.
Communism in the US is on the rise. It is very common to be openly communist in US colleges. People show up to class with hammer and sickle tshirts. Politicians are openly communist.
True enough although that’s no advert for the US; why would anyone advocate for a country increasingly steeped in communism like that? Russia hasn’t been communist for 30 years. There’s a seething hatred of Russia in the US media, which was evident in the Trump-Russia hoax.
Biden has economic interests in Ukraine. Hillary too.
Ukraine isn’t communist either.
What are you talking about?
The Trump Russia hoax had very little to do with Russia and everything to do with Trump. They needed to find a big bad country that isn’t China, and the only other option was Russia.
“Hard to contest? There have been no NATO troop movements towards Russia. NATO has only been installing defences. Half of Europe is dependant on Russian gas. There is no reason to believe any such attack was imminent. It’s not up to me to contest this. It is up to you to show any sign in the past decade that NATO was trying to attack Russia.”
Nobody, least of all me, claimed that “an attack was imminent”. That’s a straw man. What is clearly true and evidenced by recent history is that the US constitutes a credible existential threat to Russia, for the reasons I gave. Russia will no more allow them to have a base in Russia’s heartland than the US allows threatening (or even potentially threatening) foreign military powers to set up in their entire hemisphere (Monroe Doctrine – still in place after two hundred years).
That’s geopolitics 101, as Professor Mearsheimer puts it.
“Communism in the US is on the rise. It is very common to be openly communist in US colleges. People show up to class with hammer and sickle tshirts. Politicians are openly communist. Biden has economic interests in Ukraine. Hillary too. What are you talking about?”
This appears to be a complete non sequitur as far as the “communism” stuff is concerned – if anything Russia is less communist, certainly less eurocommunist/woke, than the US, by a long way. The corrupt US regime interests in the Ukraine are also irrelevant, and that merely supports the dishonesty of the claimed motives for interfering in the Ukraine.
“That woke zealotry has 0 interest in going to war, especially against Russia. If anything, that woke zealotry has deeply eroded the US military system.”
It’s pretty clear that woke pc ideology has played a huge part in pushing US sphere aggression, and the obsessive hatred of Russia, from Milosevic to Putin. See for example the latest Tweet about (in effect) killing Russians for the homos from our MI6 chief, of all people.
“From “caution” to “let destroy Kiev and get the nukes on standby” is a heck of a long road.“”
The Russians have been resisting this US drive since the 2008 Bucharest Summit. The ongoing arming and de facto integration of the Ukraine and the complete refusal of the Ukraine nationalists and the US to even talk about reasonable compromise evidently made them see the situation as one of a progressively worsening nettle that they had to grasp eventually.
What a contradiction. Either the West was going to attack or it wasn’t. People that don’t want to attack you don’t pose existential threats. In that one paragraph you admit that Russia had no reason to attack.
No one was building bases in Russia’s heartland. Even if they were building bases in Ukraine, Ukraine is not Russia’s heartland. Seems like your argument so far is that the West never gave Russia any reason to attack, and Russia was mad that it considered Ukraine to belong to it, despite it being an independent country. You are really making Russia look extremely bad here.
Still not enough reason to go to war. There was no aggression before Russia crossed the border.
“What a contradiction. Either the West was going to attack or it wasn’t. People that don’t want to attack you don’t pose existential threats. In that one paragraph you admit that Russia had no reason to attack.“
Why have you confused “want to attack” with “imminent attack” and with “constitutes an existential threat”? You do understand that these are three different things? And that there is no contradiction in what I wrote, as opposed to what you falsely claimed I wrote?
“No one was building bases in Russia’s heartland. Even they were building bases in Ukraine, Ukraine is not Russia’s heartland. Seems like your argument so far is that the West never gave Russia any reason to attack, and Russia was mad that it considered Ukraine to belong to it, despite it being an independent country. You are really making Russia look extremely bad here.”
Anyone who claims the east of the Ukraine is not “Russia’s heartland” is a liar or just ignorant. We aren’t talking about the accidents of post Soviet lines on the map, we are talking about basic geopolitical and historical reality.
“Still not enough reason to go to war. There was no aggression before Russia crossed the border.“
Now you are just reasserting what has already been dealt with.
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
I haven’t “confused” anything. If an attack is not imminent, then it does not warrant military response now. And the only way an existential threat would warrant a military response if it is the threat of war. So since you agree that there is no attack to speak of, Russia’s initiation of war is unwarranted.
You did, in fact, contradict yourself as I outlined above. You both said there is no imminent attack and that the US constitutes an existential threat to Russia. Both of those cannot be true. It’s like me travelling right now to your house to beat you up cause I felt my very existence threatened because you might attack me in the street on day in the far future. No court would ever accept that as valid self defence.
Eastern Ukraine is part of Ukraine, and therefore cannot be part of Russia, and thus cannot be “Russia’s heartland”.
I need to, since you don’t seem to get it.
Said the guy that thinks unwarranted aggression constitutes self defence and who doesn’t know what borders and sovereignty are.
“If an attack is not imminent, then it does not warrant military response now.”
“You both said there is no imminent attack and that the US constitutes an existential threat to Russia.”
It was you who introduced the idea of “imminent”, my reference was to a threat, and at no point did I suggest it was imminent. You have thrown in this idea of yours that a threat must be “imminent” and tried to mix it up with the point I actually made, which was the following:
“since you deny Russia’s very evident (and actually hard to objectively contest) view that it faces an existential threat from the US and its NATO military alliance, why would Russia, or anyone else who sees Russia’s point on that, take your position remotely seriously?“
“Eastern Ukraine is part of Ukraine, and therefore cannot be part of Russia, and thus cannot be “Russia’s heartland”.“
As I pointed out, what matters are not accidents of post Soviet lines on the map, but basic geopolitical and historical reality.
No, it was you that introduced the idea of “imminent” when you claimed that Russia attacked because they are defending themselves from an existential threat. Either that existential threat exists in the form of an imminent attack, or there is no imminent attack in which case the existential threat does not exist. Which is it?
Again, attacking someone because they might attack you at some undefined point in the future IS NOT self defence.
In other words, you do not recognize Ukraine as an independent state. Good to know who I’m talking with.
“Either that existential threat exists in the form of an imminent attack, or there is no imminent attack in which case the existential threat does not exist. Which is it?“
Do you really not understand that an existential threat does not need to be imminent?
“In other words, you do not recognize Ukraine as an independent state. Good to know who I’m talking with.”
I’m pointing out that the lines on the map are not the whole story, where they cut across pre-existing nationalities and peoples, and happen in response to dramatic and sudden political events. Again, do you really not understand that?
Do you not understand that if you’re going to use that as an excuse for INVADING another country, it MUST be imminent? If we were talking about Putin saying mean things about NATO or Putin being upset about NATO, then yes, an existential threat mustn’t be imminent. But to justify a full blown military invasion, yes, it must be imminent.
And I am pointing out that. according to the UN (of which, btw, Russia has been a member since nineteenfortybloodyfive), such matters are resolved through referendum, not through armed warfare. We aren’t talking about Russia accepting the will of the people in Eastern Ukraine to join it. We are talking about Russia bombing Kiev.
Which planet are you living on!? Are you completely oblivious to what’s going on? Can you possibly not know that Russia is trying to take over the entirety of Ukraine, not just some Eastern bit?
I applaud your stamina CN; some of these AV sceptics seem to think that if some people speaking a certain language but living elsewhere gives some kind of justifiable imperative to ” the Mother Country” to invade that foreign territory to “protect ” their language speaking non citizens…..that is the most specious claptrap justification for geopolitical aggression I have heard – deeply disturbing that DS is becoming TUI for Putinesque propaganda….another “I never thought I would live to see the day…” moment amongst a few in the last 2 years..
Please confirm what (you believe , at any rate) was the reason(s) for Truman to sanction dropping two nuclear weapons on Japan? Unadulterated non sequiturs that would be considered rubbish in an “O” Level history exam.
You spout the same cod “realpolitik” rubbish about existentialist threats as Lavrov is doing now – that Russia objects to US nuclear weapons in Europe as part of NATO’s mandate from the mid 1940’s onwards; haven’t heard him discuss the reduction of ex Soviet Union WMD pointed at Western Europe and beyond.
Russia was bailed out with vital supplies in the early part of WWII brought at great cost and personal sacrifice from US and British Merchant navies. Who put the Iron Curtain in place; who erected the Berlin Wall? Russia – not NATO.
Were these the acts of an existentially threatened Russia which by then had been morphed – not by plebiscite – into the USSR; how many of those indigenous populations were asked if they agreed to their sovereignty being acquired by the Kremlin?
Why is TY getting more and more ill-informed as the years tick by? MSM-fever?
p.s. Perhaps he should pay some attention to people like Peter Hitchens – not a font of all wisdom, but still capable of assessing OTT reporting!
I suppose he has always been an establishment journalist at heart and wants to return to the fold after two years out in the wilderness.
“But those left-wing students only ever protested about America’s ‘imperialism’, not the Soviet Union’s.”
Probably because there was already no shortage of protests about America’s imperialism in the public debate.
I find myself taking the opposite view over the Ukraine Russia issue primarily because it is being painted as a simple, cartoon-like situation of Good versus Evil and I know from more than 50 years experience on this earth that there are few situations where that is an accurate representation of reality.
…in any case the mainstream left has long since given up on protesting US foreign policy; they didn’t raise a finger when Libya was trashed, or when Syria was trashed by US-funded “moderate rebels” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore, or the escalation of the war in Afghanistan once Bush had left office.
The ‘Arab Spring’ popular democratic uprisings were revealed as only serving US geopolitics when the US backed General Sidi retook control of the country from the people’s choice Muslim Brotherhood.
Luckily for the Powers That Be, the Great Unwashed pay little attention to what goes on outside football and soaps, and has a particularly short term memory for anything else.
Maybe it’s just me but I don’t see a lot of “Questioning everything” or indeed “Daily Scepticism” in this article.
Leaving out the western-backed coup in 2014 is a serious omission. John McCain and other western dignitaries went out there and egged on a violent revolution, one of many violent resolutions supported by that administration.
Russia is no barrier to CBDCs, their government is quite enthusiastic about them.
Militarily Russia is never going to allow Ukraine to join NATO because it would mean their port in Crimea would be surrounded by NATO. They will likely push for a treaty with Ukraine forbidding them from joining.
Also, Chechnya is not a sign of Russian expansionism, it’s part of Russia.
When did it become a part of “Russia”..?
I haven’t trawled through any of the comments but there seems to be pro Putin mindset doing the rounds – just look at free west media!
The obvious difference in comparing the Covid narrative and the Ukraine one is that the former was easily checkable from day 1. The research was all out in the open. For example you only have to go to the FDA’s briefing report on the PFizer vaccine published on Dec 10 2020 to see how flimsy the claims were about the vaccine.
This is different: we just don’t KNOW what is REALLY happening in Ukraine. But even if there is a huge anti Putin anti Russia bias in the MSM -you only have to LOOK at what Putin actually DID regarding Georgia and Crimea for example – they were no threat to Russia.
I think in themselves taken out of geo-political context they would appear to be no threat – but then again I would have thought there would be no “threat” in a Dr. prescribing a patient ivermectin. There is a number of strategic reasons Putin intervened in Georgia and Crimea, the Crimean one for me seems fairly obvious to secure Russian access to their only warm water port and support the ethnic Russians after the American backed putsch in 2014. (Maidan square occupation)
“But even if there is a huge anti Putin anti Russia bias in the MSM -you only have to LOOK at what Putin actually DID regarding Georgia and Crimea for example – they were no threat to Russia.”
Putin did nothing whatsoever harmful to Crimea – all the evidence basically confirms the impression given by Peter Hitchens’ experiences when he was there back in 2010, namely that Crimea was always going to be happier as part of Russia than as part of the Ukraine, and that situation is infinitely better from the point of view of stability as regards the demonstrable and longstanding US hostility towards Russia.
As Ukrainians force Russians to turn their back on their language and change their names, I ask: Is this the world’s most absurd city?
As for Georgia, the Georgians foolishly chose to make war with the Russians because they thought they had been “green-lit” to do so by the US promise of NATO membership, and found out as the Ukrainian ultras are finding out today, that the US was merely using them and had no intention of protecting them from the consequences of their foolishness.
Georgia started war with Russia: EU-backed report
The Georgia war, like the wars in the Ukraine more recently, was the direct result of the US policy of pushing for the incorporation of the Ukraine and Georgia into NATO.
If you are not aware of these facts then you are lacking basic knowledge required for any honest conclusions regarding the current war in the Ukraine.
Has anybody yet analysed the attempted coup in Kazakhstan to see who engineered it? [spoiler alert – ‘it wasn’t Russia’]
There has been such media silence about Kazakhstan that I presumed it was a grassroots vaxpass revolt
Funny how people who do excellent work being skeptical of MSM about Covid fall back on their lifetime of MSM brainwashing when it comes to the criminality of the US and British governments. I’ve found the following useful to understand Ukraine:
Joe Lauria interviewing Scott Ritter, Mark Sleboda, Tony Kevin and Alexander Mercouris
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/02/25/watch-cn-live-russia-hits-back/
Aaron Mate interviewing Richard Sakwa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2kx4mlW3KU
A couple of years ago I created some beginners’ guides to help people understand topics that are not discussed honestly by MSM, and also to teach people about propaganda. They are at
medium.com/ElephantsInTheRoom
They are all numbered. The first one is entitled ‘The United States government is the biggest criminal organization in the world’. It is at
https://medium.com/elephantsintheroom/the-united-states-government-is-the-biggest-criminal-organisation-in-the-world-a625e535ee0f
Enjoy!
Simple question Toby;
Do you think that this would be happening if Russia’s request to join NATO after the fall of the USSR hadn’t been laughed out of court?
Tim Stanley, writing in today’s Telegraph, makes an interesting point: having denounced Putin on Twitter, the chief of MI6 (he/him) turned his attention to promoting gay history month. This is much more than a throwaway remark. Putin supports the Russian Orthodox Church, and as such I suspect he might in part be trying to hold the line against wokery – which I think is what Stanley is also suggesting. I absolutely do not condone the invasion of Ukraine, but I believe this tragic war might have been avoided had we offered a hand of friendship to Russia and shown respect for their traditions. Now we can only hope that Putin doesn’t press the nuclear button – which he may do if backed into a corner.
The forced adoption of western values on Eastern Europe under the diktat of the EU is a form of cultural imperialism. Asking Bulgarians, for example, to figuratively bend the knee to Muslim immigrants when their country suffered centuries of brutality at the hands of the Ottoman Empire is straight out of the Brussels school of colonialism.
i suspect Russia doesn’t fancy having its culture and history erased. Personally I think Putin would have been better off wooing the disaffected East away from the EU as it falls apart, but either way I don’t blame him for resisting being colonised.
I have noted the article above with some interest and struggle with the comments made above.
I agree with fully and wholeheartedly with notion that war is wrong at all costs but really struggle with any real assessment of Putin or his intentions with regard to his attack on Ukraine and ultimately it takes two sides to make war. This has been apparent in all conflicts throughout history and remains to be the case today.
I find a title asking how should a sceptic respond to this situation as somewhat crass as I cannot see any particular way that anyone should respond to anything. The powers that be are responding in a way that supports the Ukraine and maybe they are right or maybe they are wrong but there is no problems with retaining some scepticism about this. As you rightly point out we have been misled and in many ways misinformed by our governments and MSM about the situation surrounding Covid for the past two years and there has been scientific evidence to demonstrate this. This does not mean that we need not be sceptical about whether Putin is good or bad or indeed whether the West provoked said conflict. This is constantly something that should be asked about in respect of all conflicts to seek to address and stop future blood shed and needless deaths.
I cannot understand the points about reliance on Ukrainian media and people on living in Ukraine and neither can I understand the justification that attacking Iraq was ok because Saddam was bad and ultimately Irag was overthrown by a superpower and there are many other leaders considered as baddies that have not been attacked. One wonders also about historical figures such as Kennedy who threatened nuclear war in the 60’s.
I think the point I am trying to make is that I find your article quite opinionated and one sided and felt the need to suggest that this is not the definition of a sceptic and therefore perhaps not how a sceptic should respond to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
How should we respond? Mind our own business that’s how and put our own house in order. In essence I am having a hard time distinguishing between the behaviour of Western leaders and Putin, nor why invading is ‘wrong’ when Russia does it, but ‘right’ when the USA & pals does it – Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yugoslavia.
Why were there no sanctions against the USA & UK when they invaded Iraq?
Lets stop the hypocrisy and pretence.
‘But just because they’ve been wrong about almost everything in the recent past doesn’t mean they’re wrong about Putin. It’s worth remembering that in the fairytale the boy who cried wolf was only mistaken up until the moment he was right – and the townspeople suffered because they were too sceptical.’
Really? So it was the townspeople’s fault. By what magical process of divination
would the townspeople know when the boy’s cry was true or false?
After 21 months of being assaulted and put through Hell by serial liars I wouldn’t believe any of them if they told me the Earth was round.
For what it’s worth my analysis is that the ‘west’ and NATO have mishandled Russia for years, expanding ever eastwards and moving missile bases closer and closer to Russia. If the situation were reversed how would Britain act if Russia were extending it’s sphere of influence closer to us and building missile bases in France and Holland? This whole situation could have been avoided if it had simply been said that Ukraine cannot join NATO or the EU.
All that said, we are where we are and once again our leaders and public seem to be showing no forethought. Let’s say they achieve their desired outcome and things go badly in Ukraine for Putin. Do you think he will simply shrug his shoulders and walk away? The man is insecure and a failure in Ukraine will very likely be his undoing as president and on the world stage. He will then be in a position where he has nothing to loose and have the west to blame for the situation and his finger on the nuclear button, which he has already threatened to use. People such as our foolish foreign secretary encouraging UK citizens to go and fight for Ukraine when Putin has threatened anyone who interferes with nuclear action are pouring fuel on the fire.
The West and NATO should back off out of Ukraine and let the country sort it’s own mess out. It has a hand in this as well by making noises about joining NATO and Europe when any objective reading of the geopolitical situation should have told them this was bound to provoke Russia. As an aside, an country that has a comedian as president is kind of making itself an easy target. The west should though send large numbers of troops and defences on a ‘training exercise’ to the eastern NATO states. The message should be to Putin that he can take Ukraine, we will not interfere but if he sets one foot further then there will be hell to pay.
Whether or not the corporate MSM’s reporting is sound, it’s blindingly obvious to anyone that their main interest in wall-to-wall coverage is to distract from festering issues in the whole West. Like
And seriously, who (certainly in the USA) should care much about what happens in Ukraine? It is a moral travesty with little import to America. You can argue — and argue well — that this is Europe’s problem. Even during WW2, America was focused on the Asian sphere, and rightly so – Japan dragged us into the conflict, not Germany. The same logic holds today, and even moreso. China is much more of a risk today than is Russia.
I forced myself to listen and found that he was talking more sense than many commentators on the topic. Can’t stand the machine gun style presentation and the waving arms but the content was interesting.
I too find Russell Brand’s presentation hard going, as with Alex Jones, but he has a huge following so maybe it works for some.
Meanwhile mRNA vaccines can alter DNA new study shows.
(see below)
I stopped reading the comments on this site during the run-up to the invasion of my family’s home country. Looking through the comments to this article, I’ve missed nothing.
I think it might be time for Toby to wind down the site. The comments read like an echo chamber for that tiny group of lonely, gullible online Westerners who get a thrill out of an authoritarian without his shirt on.
The association is doing the anti-lockdown cause no good at all.
“the invasion of my family’s home country“
So you have a profound personal emotional (and probably practical) reason to take sides in this dispute between foreigners.
That’s fine for you (as long as you are open and honest about it, as you are here). We can judge your views on the topic in the correct context. But it makes your interests profoundly different from those of Brits in general, who are entitled (in theory at least) to expect their government’s policy to be set with the general interests of British people to the fore, not those of foreigners.
“I think it might be time for Toby to wind down the site. The comments read like an echo chamber for that tiny group of lonely, gullible online Westerners who get a thrill out of an authoritarian without his shirt on.
The association is doing the anti-lockdown cause no good at all.”
Another “tiny group of lonely, gullible online Westerners” just like those who resisted the WMD lies (and were proved to have been correct), or those who stood against the flood of emotive propaganda and manipulation to resist lockdown in March 2020. And proved to have been correct. Etc.
The facts are on the side of the realists on the Ukraine issue, It’s the anti-Russian side that resorts to emotional manipulation and silencing of dissent. And that’s the side the serial liars of the mainstream media are on. In Hitchens’ telling observation last weekend:
“The BBC, which insisted on strict neutrality between Britain and Argentina in its coverage of the Falklands War, flings itself into an ignorant and one-sided coverage of the Ukraine crisis.”
PETER HITCHENS: The West acts tough with Russia because we’re just too feeble to stand up to our real enemy… China
“I think it might be time for Toby to wind down the site.”
A reminder that cancel culture and the silencing of dissent is not confined to the woke left.
Russia and China are both the enemy of Britain.
Apparently, according to Peter Hitchens, Chris Christie can’t be fat because Michael Moore is fat.
Btw, Putin is a master of cancel culture, literally.
There are a lot of Putin fanboys here, I notice, they offer the choices of the ancient cultism of Orthodox Christianity or Lockdown.
Apparently, seeing Putin for what he is means you support China, another country of cultism.
Well, Toby, bear in mind your anti-Israel and green opinions are not supported by all those who read this site. Why spoil your responses to the hypothetical stupid quyestions by making them controversial when they don’t need to be. That just confuses and drives away many who might otherwise agree with them.
The “newly-independent breakaway republics of Luhansk and Donetsk” were actually part of Ukraine. They were split off without any democratic process and this happened at the behest of people of Russian ancestry who were moved there by the Soviets and encouraged by Putin. Remember how long we fought to prevent NI being hijacked by the communists in the IRA.
When you read the article prior to this one, you realise that our governments have been genetically experimenting on their own populations. Not Russia or China. Us.
So we’re not “infinitely superior”, it’s a sham. Russia and China know it’s a sham and they know that we talk the talk but we won’t do anything about it. We’ll let them lock us up, genetically experiment on us and our children and go to work to support their corrupt system while they poison the minds of our children at school. If we’re really unlucky they’ll convince one of our kids they’re the wrong gender and begin a slow process of mutilating them and still we’ll do nothing.
This is the void that Putin has stepped into. It’s not just the corrupt client state we call the Ukraine, it’s Western resolve he’s trampling over. He knows we don’t have it in us to fight him because all our pompous talk about being “infinitely superior” is fatuous, vacuous drivel.
Putin and Russia have been warning the West for years about NATO moving nearer to their borders. They have been forced to act to defend themselves.
Here is Putins speech from 2016 at the St Petersburg international Economic Forum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo&ab_channel=InessaS
See if this sounds like someone who is “deranged.” Listen to the whole thing and they you will understand how the US has threatened Russia by unilaterally withdrawing from the ABM treaty and tearing up international defence treaties.
Let’s look at a few historical facts, after the fall of the USSR a bumbling alcoholic Western Bankers controlled puppet called Yeltsin became president. Under his presidency the Russian economy went into freefall the ruble went from about 1:1 to the US dollar to 4,000 to 1. Pensions became worthless, state salaries were frequently not paid for months and the Russian oligarchs plus the international bankers Western controlled corporations were asset stripping Russia.
In addition, the international bankers controlled Western puppets were attempting to balkanise the Russian Federation through a series of proxy wars eg Chechnya.
Putin was selected to be Yeltsin’s successor because he was considered to be a safe pair of hands by the Russian and Western international bankers. They were wrong.
In 2007 at the Munich Security Conference Putin stated he did not want relations between the Russian Federation and the West to be as it was with the USSR.
The international bankers Western controlled puppets refused to listen and broke multiple arms limitations agreements with Russia and broke verbal plus written guarantees not to enlarge NATO.
Furthermore, NATO began to instal missiles in former Warsaw Pact countries under the pretext of them being a defensive shield against Iranian nuclear missiles.
Next, a coup was instigated by the international bankers Western intelligence controlled puppets to instal a regime favourable to them and supported by the Ukrainian Nazis many of whose forefathers volunteered for the Galicia SS division and became guards at the Nazis death camps. Laws were passed making their Russian speaking citizens persona non grata and a civil war broke out in 2014 in the Donbas.
In 2015 the Minsk accords were signed by the US, UK, Russia and the Ukraine to stop fighting enact constitutional reform and the Donbas to be self governing plus the border control to returned to the Ukrainian government instead of being used by the Nazis Asov battalion to shell and kill people in the Donbas.
After 8 years more than 15,000 men, women and children have died. Yet, the Ukrainian government has refused to implement them nor the West persuading them to implement it.
What the Western intelligence and military agencies have done is pour weapons, trainers into the Ukraine.
Lastly, when a former comedian acting as a president made the statement recently at the Munich Security Conference the Ukrainian renounced the non nuclear proliferation treaty signed in 1994 by them, the US, UK, France and Russia it was the last straw for the Russians.
The idea that the Azov Nazi battalion could be armed with nuclear weapons was the last straw.
Memories of the 10,000,00s of dead from the Great Patriotic war because the USSR acted to late came back to haunt them.
Is it any wonder Putin invaded a failed Nazi/ Western propped up State !
Congratulations Vladimir, on your posting underca pseudonym.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfArW6zppYw
My man PJW at it again on those crying wolf.
For a less cartoonish interpretation of geopolitical events, I find the Duran’s commentary on Russia helpful.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/1mbgjjEnbKc/
Putin is no deranged psychopath – shame on you.
The Russians have a team of diplomats who are highly experienced and responsible as they have needed to manage their national foreign policy themselves…unlike the Europeans, who have handed all such decisions to the EU, NATO and the US, and are left with a rump of ridiculous inexperienced and helpless foreign office staff.
I was recently at a talk given by Lord Howell, who took up a foreign office post. When he enquired what our foreign policy was, he was told “we dont have a foreign policy, we just follow the US” and was handed a document on woke policy ie, how to address people in their preferred gender.
This is true, this is what he said.
There is always Strategic Culture for more info.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/
Yes, you’re right, Putin’s victims assassinated themselves to make him look bad.
Yeah the Duran are very good. Big leap from Toby’s lofty rhetoric.
Russia has been rejecting the Globalist take over of its institutions since the Berlin wall fell.
Globalists want to ferment regime change in Russia like they got in Ukraine.
This is why they’re making so much effort to provoke Russia, and as an idea, its quite mad.
Russia is a Nuclear armed power, not some Goat and Oil sandpit.
I’m curious about Mr. Young’s sudden concern about the Ukraine invasion. In spite of him attempting to debunk those who ask about this sudden concern.
Has he been infected by a new batch of mass formation psychosis.
A million people die of starvation in Africa every year when there’s no shortage of food. Why the sudden concern for the Ukraine invasion?
It’s that MSN he keeps referencing. Mass Submission Neurosis I believe.
Once there was a mental hospital
Two mental patients (US/NATO and Ukrainian political, ideological and economic elites)
One Doctor (Putin)
Doctor went mad
One mental patient escaped the other two are locked inside
Who will emerge alive? And if he does, he’d better be vaccinated.
Bat Shit Crazy World We Live In
My Facebook post (I am from central Ukraine) and the book I wrote 7 years ago, elaborating on the history underlying a very complex matter. Putin is a wolf. Blair, Bush, Obama etc. are a pack of wolves. Take your pick.
MORE THOUGHTS ON UKRAINE
I have been 100% onboard until yesterday. Until then I considered Putin to be the sanest and most rational political figure on the world’s stage. As of now, my trust in his rational decision making has been reduced to zero. While I understand the background and history of what has been happening between Russia and NATO for the last 30+ years, yesterday’s escalation in size and scope has been utterly disproportionate, reckless, and dangerous. Growing up in the USSR, I lived in both, Ukraine and Russia. I understand profoundly Russo-Ukrainian culture, which is the most of Ukraine. I opposed the 2014 coup d’état, war in Donbas and supported Minsk Accords. Ukraine, goaded by the West, failed not only to implement the accords, but made things progressively worse. Worse, it begged to be an American puppet state. I understand why the country got to where it was yesterday. Had Russia engaged in peace keeping operation in Donbas as in effect to fulfill the Minsk Accords, I would have been 100% supportive. However, this is not what happened yesterday. What happened yesterday left me in the neutral territory from where I see no escape. How does it end? How does Putin pacify central Ukraine (where I am from), let alone the West? What is the escape route, what is the solution? I am despondent. For years I have been trying to reconcile my nationalist and separatist friends. Where does one go from here? Do I condemn my nationalist friends for engaging in a partisan warfare, turning the country into another Vietnam? Or do I congratulate my separatist friends for their chance to avenge? I can’t do both or either. Russia’s yesterday decision to start such an extensive conflicts leaves me with no answer, other than anger at the apparent loss of the moral compass by Vladimir Putin, which might very well turn out to be a curse for the Russian nation for years to come. I know the temptation to use the gratuitous license on violence possessed by the likes of the USA, NATO and Israel was great. But this what made Russia under Putin different. Until yesterday….
https://www.amazon.ca/Ukraine-Battlefield-Memories-Alex-Posoukh-ebook/dp/B071F4556G
How should Brexiteers respond to it, you should say. I have been refreshing my memory of EU interventions in Ukraine and written up a little timeline for my own use. Do not forget that accession to the EU, or even most forms of associate membership, will put Ukraine behind what the EU, in connection with Ireland, is pleased to call a hard border with Russia.
<b>The Shortest History of Ukraine</b>
1991-94: Independence, economic crisis and the adoption of a French-style president and prime minister constitution.
1994-2004: Economist Leonid Kuchma administers shock therapy during two five-year terms as a Gaullist executive president. The economy recovers at a price in oligarchy and corruption. EU membership is not on the table during this period.
<b>2004: The first pro-EU revolution by television, the Orange Revolution.</b>
2004-2014: Ukraine becomes a German-style parliamentary republic and EU membership is a contested issue for two presidencies and three parliaments, dominated by pro-EU Yulia Tymoshenko and pro-Russian Viktor Yanukovych. When Yanukovych refuses to sign an association agreement with the EU he is forced out after a second revolution.
<b>2014: The second pro-EU revolution by television, the Euromaidan Revolution.</b>
2014-2019. Television oligarch Petro Petroshenko, a key figure in both revolutions, serves one five year term as president. A constitutional commitment to EU and NATO membership takes the issue out of politics. Conflict with Russia begins.
2019. Petroshenko loses the presidential election to Volodymyr Zelensky, a television personality and apparent joke candidate who conducts his real campaign on social media.
<b>2022. And then…</b>
I say that Russia is far from blameless in all this, but the EU has been the real instigator of events for the past 20 years, and Russia has been reacting to them in its own reasonable interests.
So many people I held in high regard until a few days ago, people who have bravely resisted MSM narratives over the last two years, have fallen hook, line, and sinker for a narrative coming out of Moscow. Thank god you are not one of them Toby.
Slava Ukraini.
Starting global wars has historically been used by the corporate/political plutocracy to reset (topical word, no?) a financial ponzi scheme rapidly running out of steam – as the current crapitalist model clearly has, with every bank and every government effectively bankrupt.
The traditional alternative to war is to crash the entire economic system, resulting in another Great Depression, but this time – because of the sheer size of government and public debt – with far more catastrophic results than in the Thirties or during the 2008 financial crisis.
Arguably, the shamdemic (which clearly never had anything to do with public health) was designed primarily as a wrecking ball to the broken world economy. But with the shamdemic losing its fear factor and a resistance against authoritarians like Trudeau and Macron starting to harden, the peasants are insufficiently softened up to accept the UN/WEF/World Bank-sponsored Great Reset.
A war, limited at first but capable of expansion if necessary, would immediately arm the global elite’s embedded political stooges the powers they need to implement Klaus Schwab’s vision for our fuedal future where we peasants will “own nothing, have no privacy and be happy”.
Scaremongering? Not according to this former investment banker whistleblower.
https://odysee.com/@cicerodiello:8/cicerodiello:6
All six Grand Jury hearings: https://www.grand-jury.net
It’s all theatre for public consumption once again, based on an old agenda to divide people with illusory oppositions, the famous Hegelian Dialect of balance of power; this is to perpetuate the myths of the ‘cold war’ and ‘east vs west’, keeping people divided and distracted, while the Great Reset and its digital agenda continue quietly.
With time, we’ll come across more fabricated videos with the participation of ‘crisis actors’:
UKRAINE BUFFOONERY FOOTAGE! CRISIS ACTORS AND MORE! (bitchute.com)
7 FAKE NEWS stories coming out of Ukraine – OffGuardian (off-guardian.org)
I keep informing people that nation’s leaders don’t rule nations, they are only paid puppets obeying a script given to them by characters well above their heads. I find astonishing how most people don’t know that jewish bankers own all ‘national’ and international banks, and with them they control the world – these are the only people on earth having a ‘great plan’ to establish a global dictatorship which they call a “Univeral Republic”.
Great reset isn’t a con theory. Its been talked and written about for years.
Toby’s post today has me thinking a bit more about this site.
Great article, Toby. Scepticism has to be partnered with open-mindedness: there is a ditch on both sides of the road. You also have to be conscious of history and be Baysian. Putin has a long history – working for the old KGB-Stasi in East Germany; links with organised crime in Leningrad; ruthless rise to power with a lot of dead bodies among both his previous friends and mentors as well as his critics. Quite a few of the bodies were in the UK.
Totally agree.
Whether you love or hate Russell Brand I don’t think you can really say this video was biased in any way. Personally, I thought it was very measured and raised important questions for the official narrative (in contrast to Toby’s article). I have been a big fan of the Daily Sceptic over the last two years but I think this article strikes the wrong tone for a supposedly sceptical website, which you would expect to challenge mainstream views rather than other sceptics. If you embrace the idea of scepticism then any voice that challenges the official line should be encouraged. This is more like a Full Fact article.
Not one of your best, Toby. ‘Sceptics’ joined this blog because of the way governments responded to Covid and not because of our views on whether Cossacks should be made to speak Ukranian rather than Russian or be allowed to play balalaikas. These are interesting subjects particularly when one of the protagonists has put his nuclear weapons on high alert. Has he unlocked them, I wonder? Rightly or wrongly Putin has convinced himself that parts of Mother Russia are being lost to invaders from the West. He may be mentally ill. This might be a good time to give him some of what he wants so that we can all live to argue for another few years. Meanwhile in Scotland and Northern Ireland, not only are there similar territorial disputes, the spread of Covid is as high as it has ever been – even in Shetland and we are all still being made to sing hymns while wearing masks.
Mostly I see people talking about this war as if it’s a game.
It’s been barely a week and people prancing around saying Russia has failed whilst simultaneously calling 5 days a drawn out war.
It’s clear most of the keyboard generals I see on social media have no idea of what war is or how it plays out.
“How Should Sceptics Respond to Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine?”
Wtf tory boy is now telling us what to think? not much of a sceptic at all is he.
I genuinely fear for the mental health of most of the people commenting on here, as well as the amount of time that must be spent ferreting around on the internet to find material to support their paranoia.
Some of the students that my wife teaches are Ukrainian. This is a real war that is happening because of the ambition of a ruthless dictator. Toby Young is right. Again.
Yet…I know some Russians.
The Great Reset is a ‘fever dream’?
So, it’s just in our imagination that the leaders of so called democracies all over the world responded in lockstep for the last 2 years, destroying our civil liberties, using extreme force against peaceful protest and promising to Build Back Better? The same governments led by former WEF young global leaders which, in the case of the Canadian government, Schwab boasted of having infiltrated half of the cabinet?
When all of this is quite clearly the published agenda of the WEF, the conspiracy is not a theory.
The problem with your argument is that it requires Western leaders to be simultaneously weak and ruthlessly efficient. There is tons of evidence for the former, and none whatsoever for the latter.
The whole article makes the assumption that Russia is still the communist country from the past, which is far from the truth. Are the west still fighting for democracy and freedom today? The lessons learnt from recent events and the past two years answers that question.
Just one small correction: Russia did not “invade” Chechnya, whatever you think about that conflict. Chechnya is part of the Russian Federation.
Toby supported removing Saddam because, ‘OK he didn’t have WMD, but he was a baddie’ – a bit feeble, was Saddam the only baddie at the time, or even the worst?
The ‘known-known’ that Saddam had WMD, could deploy them in 45-minutes, was the reason for invading Iraq. I’ve never understood why that wasn’t the reason for not invading Iraq. Everyone knows we cannot over-confront Putin over Ukraine because Putin has nuclear weapons, and we cannot be sure he won’t use them. That, after all, is how nuclear deterrence works.
With the Iraq invasion, the principle seemed to operate in reverse: because Saddam had WMD, we had to attack him immediately, no time to lose, we’ve only got 45 minutes.
Er?
Suppose Saddam had said on invasion eve, One step over our borders and I nuke Washington and London, could Blair and Bush have gone ahead? It was them, mainly Blair, insisting he could do it.
What Toby is really asking is how he should react to this!
He doesn’t know and frankly why would you when even the smoke has mirrors.
The truth was a casualty before this war even started.
I don’t think any rational person can justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I have though some sympathy with the idea that our response to the end of the Cold War may have been a contributory factor in the rise of Putin and the Oligarchs. Perhaps the West’s universal support of Yestin was a mistake and US interference in Afghanistan undoubtably sowed the seeds for the rise of the Taliban. These past two years of Covid panic have exposed our fragility. “Nobody is safe until we are all safe”. Combine this with premonitions of impending environmental catastrophe and job done. Tyrants exploit weakness. It was ever thus. At least those who appeased Hitler during the 1930s could draw on the carnage of WWI to justify their position. We have lost the ability to stand up for ourselves and others. History is repeating itself.
I think these arguments are only valid if you also look at the last eight years of bombing in the Donbas and the poverty created by the USA funded Ukraine after the 2014 coup.
I would also beg the question how would America feel if Russia placed bioweapon labs on the borders of Canada. Then there is the question of Clinton breaking an agreement that NATO would not spread further to the East.
This is a very complex situation and I think is the result of unfinished business from 2014 and beyond. I wonder how much information would be revealed from the Laptop of hell, Burisma accounts and Privatbank dealings with EU.
Astonishing how this video from 2015 still applies today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4&t=380s
I would largely agree with Toby, although the specific provocation here may have been the Ukrainian notion of reassessing their nuclear moratorium, as Pepe Escobar notes:
“Comedian/Ukrainian President Volodymy Zelensky, back from the Russophobia-drenched Munich Security Conference where he was hailed like a Messiah, saying that the 1994 Budapest memorandum should be revised and Ukraine should be nuclear-rearmed”
However while it clear Putin has invaded a soverign nation again, after doing so during the previous Democrat presidency, which is undoubtably an awful cause of suffering for thousands of Ukrainians and Russians alike, after years of Russian and US-backed proxy war deaths on both sides already, how should a Russian react to such annual encirclement by forever-warmongers?
Its not much evolved from playground bullying; when teacher comes I claim you started the fight, as no one saw me pushing you around repeatedly until you lashed out. Albeit on a grander scale with almost unlimited levers to pull.
I don’t think you can blame those disenchanted westerners. The blob lied about the vaccines, but they wouldnt lie about the medicines authority. They lied about the medicines authority but they wouldnt lie about the pandemic. They lied about the pandemic but they wouldnt lie about the Afghan withdrawal. They lied about the Afghan withdrawal but they wouldnt lie about the elections. They lied about the elections but they wouldnt lie about Epstein. They lied about Epstein but they wouldnt lie about Assange. They lied about Assange but they wouldnt lie about ISIS funding. They lied about ISIS funding but they wouldnt lie about Seth Rich. They lied about Seth Rich but they wouldnt lie about the taxpayer banking bail-ins. They lied about the taxpayer banking bail-ins but they wouldnt lie about the subprime ratings authorities. They lied about the subprime ratings authorities but they wouldnt lie about the Middle East forever-wars. They lied about the Middle East forever-wars but they wouldnt lie about coup funding. They lied about coup funding but they wouldnt lie about WMD. They lied about WMD but they wouldnt lie about 9/11. They lied about 9/11 but they wouldnt lie about Bin Laden turning. They lied about Bin Laden turning but they wouldnt lie about the Greenspan put. They lied about the Greenspan put but they wouldnt lie about gulf war 1… my ISP charges by the character so I must stop.
The idea the blob can be entirely dishonest about one crisis subject but entirely honorable and noble on others is childish or deliberate nonsense.
Reality is always up for grabs.
There is no such thing as reality; only individual perceptions!
I believe that we should remain highly sceptical of the mainstream anti-Russian narrative. Having listened to just an hour of wall-to-wall BBC Putin-bashing yesterday, I concluded that this was inciting listeners to beat up a Russian…or worse.
I have supported this excellent daily reading for sceptics from the beginning but, if it loses its scepticism of the mainstream narrative, it will no longer do what it says on the tin and I will go elsewhere.
Toby Young is wrong on Iraq. The point is not that Saddam was evil so therefore it was alright. (There are plenty of evil leaders we are not trying to otherthrow. In fact some that we seem to do business with).
The point is that our Prime Minister knowingly lied to the public and parliament. When exposed, he tried to pretend the war was about something else. The war itself massively destabilised the region causing much human suffering.
It really matters that the argument for war was a lie.
For some background on the 2014 coup and the conflict in Ukraine and Russia, may be worthwhile looking at this Oliver Stone production.
Ukraine on Fire: The Real Story – Full Documentary by Oliver Stone (Original English version)
This is precisely why I read the DS – because it makes me feel less crazy, not more!
As mentioned in the following post, Putin is an unhinged psychopath
And your evidence for that is…?
I believe this is a wrong and illogical take for 2 reasons.
1 – It is quite wrong to think the argument to invade Iraq was compelling. Saddam Hussein was installed and backed by the West to fight against Iran in the early 1980´s and he was funded economically and militarily by the USA throughout the time he gassed his own people. History is full of human rights abusing tyrants supported by the west – just look as Britain’s and USA unwavering support for Saudi Arabia, which are deploying British weapons in Yemen. Actually believing moral reasons for a war is the absolute height of naivety. They always give a moral reason for war – the true motivation was America´s own self-interest – one being Iraq´s oil. It takes an incredible level of double-think to believe the Iraq war – which killed hundreds of thousands of people – was for the good of those people !!
2 – Quite simply – approving of the Iraq war – while disapproving of the Ukraine war is a clear double-standard. If we are being sensible – then the England football tam should also be kicked out the world cup for its role in the Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Libya wars, and for selling weapons to Saudi Arabia. That’s not to say individuals like you – who fall into this distorted westernized way of seeing things are hypocrites – you may just be misinformed, but the overall framing of this – condemnation of Russia, and bizarre desire to punish innocent Russians – like expelling them from the world cup – is certainly laden with hypocrisy.
I do not condone the war and I am disappointed Russia has invaded BUT:
“Putin’s pretext for invading, namely, that Russia was acting as a “peacekeeper” to prevent the newly-independent breakaway republics of Luhansk and Donetsk being attacked by the Ukrainian Army”
Where the **** have you been the past eight years? 10-14,000 civilians already dead from Ukraine shelling of breakaway republics.
Where was all the concern for innocent men, women, and children then?
Putin may not be entirely wrong about the influence of neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian armed forces or law enforcement? Have there been atrocities in the Donbas v Slavs? Is there an ethnic cleansing going on? The Azov Battalion is a reality, pre-invasion. Simplistic good v evil is too lazy. Doesn’t mean the invasion isn’t evil but there’s a case to answer. We’re arming real Nazis among many normal Ukrainians.
https://maajidnawaz.substack.com/p/russia-ukraine-nato-the-eu-and-a?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjozMTkyMDE3LCJfIjoibGkyK3MiLCJpYXQiOjE2NDYxMzIxMjEsImV4cCI6MTY0NjEzNTcyMSwiaXNzIjoicHViLTY3MjQxMSIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.CylK7xnG8vrDA7CMzm2tzIINhSgFCaIWjPuyAX8MOcs&fbclid=IwAR1pKbCijYho0abYjylF72o3mzp1d57v4uPGPCYp0BV8gt_VQysvcZDbjS0
Bucketloads of Putin supporters and apologists here.
Your point is well proven, Toby.
‘Putin apologist’ the new ‘anti-vaxxer’? Engage the arguments, don’t name call. Nuance and complexity exist in wars.
Toby, this is the article you should publish
si vis pacem, para bellum – bad cattitude (substack.com)
“Putin’s claim that he wanted to defend Russian separatists in Ukraine who were at the mercy of neo-Nazis is complete balls.”
Piles of dead and houses reduced to rubble that suggest otherwise.
There are sheep with a better understanding of history than Toby Young.
Brand seems to have been red pilled by the Covid Con and its tyranny, though it’s strange to see that he supported the mayhem in Iraq simply because Saddam was a ‘baddie’. It seems he’s applying the same criterion to Putin. And it has to be said, the Russian Presidente is displaying an mind set that might be compared to Saddam Hussein’s with the Kurds.
I’ve visited Ukraine on business many times since just after the USSR broke up. On one trip in the mid 90’s, I was shown around a museum in Rivne (old Poland). It detailed the Soviet Communist forced famine of the 30’s in which millions starved to death. Details of the concentration camps run by the Russians. The executions and and so on. The barbed wire motiff around the walls was particularly apt.
I also visit the Lviv area. In ancient Galicia – nothing to do with Russia. Putin has already been a swear word there for quite some time.
It was very plain most in the Western half of the country, at least, don’t want to be dominated again by Russians, whether communist or old fashioned wanna be Tsars. Putin thinks he owns Ukraine, or ‘little Russians’ as he likes to call them. Imagine England invading Scotland, razing towns and telling the survivors they are little English and will do exactly what they are told, or else! (repress the ‘I wish’ reaction to this analogy!)
Recommend watching Oliver Stone’s production of ‘Ukraine on Fire’ before you take sides on this particular conflict. Ukraine on Fire: The Real Story – Full Documentary by Oliver Stone (Original English version) on Vimeo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6YeIM85SJg&ab_channel=AmanpourandCompany
Vladimir Putin – “Empire of Lies” Speech – Full – February 24, 2022
What I have learnt in the past couple of days is that this has been a combination of cock-up by the West (especially Obama/Biden and Germany, but the whole foreign policy western world too) and continued excessively unacceptable behaviour by Putin.
If anyone has 45mins (+ Q & A) watch Prof Mearsheimer’s prescient lecture in 2015 in Chicago. It is very enlightening. It does not exonerate anyone using force to get their way. But that never troubled Putin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
The truth seems to be that by being brain dead about Russia’s genuine concerns (because Putin runs a klepto-thug-ocracy) we have taken our eyes off what should have happened. Everyone has been at least ‘un-smart’ to get here. It’s never too late to realise that, but with that old fool in the White House that’s never going to happen.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/WUae74TkoS4/
The latest analysis from Mercouris. The Duran.
Get LT off the case asap…
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The ‘Roses have thorns’ series is good, especially the ones relating to the Maidan, and the Odessa pogrom. The creators used publicly available mobile phone footage taken by numerous peole in numerous positions, all time synchronised, to try to work out what happened, who did what etc.
For those unaware, the Odessa pogrom refers to an incident in May(?) 2014 where pro-Russian Ukrainians in Odessa were holding a peaceful meeting outside the city’s main trades union hall. A massive crowd of neo-Nazis approached, attacked them and drove the meeting attendees into the trades union building. Numerous molotov cocktails were thrown into the building resulting in a massive fire. Badly burnt people ended up leaping to safety from the upper floors. A woman’s scream heard at one point turn out to have been made by a pregnant women, who was supposedly raped (evidence not clear on film), and definitely strangled with a telephone cord. Many of those killed died from carbon monoxide poisoning. Their corpses were then set on fire, presumably by attackers carrying molotov cocktails. The incident was covered up by the Odessa authorities.
For anyone seeking a concise comprehensive backgrouder regarding Russia, Ukraine and Crimea, I reccomend
Everything you always wanted to know about Ukraine
It is intended by the author (an ex-diplomat who worked in Kiev) as a ‘vaccine’ to the MSM frenzy.
Toby has been bought! Skirting over the West’s antics of the last 25 years with – it’s whataboutery – diminishes the fact the West has created hell on Earth for some people of the world, either to impose the West’s style of democracy (look where we are now!?!), or to create the conditions for the great movement of people. And sorry, to talk about the WEF, the great reset and build back better has some kind of conspiracy is ridiculous.. it’s being played out I front of us and Ukraine is just another phase. Disappointing article!
Really good article, thanks. I hear shed loads of analysis but if there are too many closed or inflexible minds how is the unease of scepticism to be spread?
Abusing the democratic process, imprisoning opposition leaders, shutting down independent newspapers and news websites, rewarding their loyal followers with assets stolen from their people,
exactly what the western democratic states have been doing for the past two years….
america and britain are as much kleptocracies as russia is.
and if you think differently you are not thinking hard enough…
that however does not mean that putin is not a real threat to peace and should not be shut down
Another article by Tim Black on the Spiked site worth reading: The lethal stupidity of a No Fly Zone
It is not a question if invading a country and waging war is right or wrong. Waging war is wrong and should be avoided if ever possible. But the MSM is engaged in a new form of virtue signalling to a point that is obviously hypocrite.
“Weapons of Mass Destruction” is justified and a strategic red line isn’t? I am not answering the question, merely pointing out the difference in how the MSM has approached it.
Who is Hitler? There are many world leaders (and politicains) with very big ego’s that will execute extreme measures when given the chance. If Europe wants to expand NATO without expanding it’s military power and leans on the U.S., combined with dependence on Russian energy and a weak U.S., the opportunity is given. It is not a matter of morality, it is a matter of strategic geopolitical reality. In a world where the U.S. is losing their dominance this reality is becoming more complex.
It is a matter of being given the opportunity. What if Trudeau was a leader in a political system like in Russia. What would have happened to the Truckers and the unclean?
Yet another Ukraine fake exposed:
Member of the 72nd Centre for Info & Psychological operations of the UAF posing as a devastated victim…image was used widely by the MSM
https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/status/1498454013095727107
Thanks for the link to Russell Brand’s analysis, which raises the important point that it’s ordinary people on the ground who get it in the neck when caught between the conflicting interests of power brokers. They who, laughably, still try to convince us they act from sound principle, while censoring your access to information and using the fog of war to obscure the effects of the last pile of poo they dumped on the populace.
They must think we’re thick, or at best, ineffectual.