Electric vehicles will never dominate the market, Toyota Chairman Akio Toyoda has said, in the latest sign that car companies are backing away from the troubled technology. The Telegraph has more.
Battery-powered electric vehicles will only ever capture 30% of global market share, the Chairman of Toyota has predicted, raising concerns about consumers’ willingness to align with Net Zero goals.
Akio Toyoda said that traditional fuel-burning cars, as well as hybrids and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles would make up the rest of the market.
The grandson of the founder of the world’s largest car manufacturer said shifting towards electric vehicles is not the answer when a billion people in the world are living without electricity.
He told a business event this month that limiting consumer choices and ability to travel by making expensive cars is not the answer.
He said: “Customers — not regulations or politics — should make that decision.”
He added: “Engines will surely remain.”
Worth reading in full.
Stop Press: Electric bikes have caused a record number of fires in New York City, the Telegraph reports. According to figures released by the New York Fire Department, e-bikes were responsible for 267 fires in the city, claiming 18 lives and causing 150 injuries.
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Obviously not. The best batteries have one fourteenth the energy density of petrol/diesel.
While the electric motor is extremely efficient, the battery is the weak point.
The Internal Combustion Engine, while “only” 30-40% efficient, still comes out way ahead.
Maths. Too hard for our dumb politicians.
Our politicians simply don’t care, because they don’t need to care. They can all afford EVs. Until a major political party breaks ranks, they don’t need to worry about this affecting ordinary people.
Also true!
Those MP’s and other ranks of the establishment who have signed up to Nut Zero fall in to one of two camps – the lazy pig ignorant and those who know what Nut Zero is really about and are more than happy to push and promote it.
Nut Zero is all about control and population reduction. The second group, WEF aficionados all, know this which is why they are such enthusiastic supporters.
The first group haven’t a clue about the implications of Nut Zero but kid themselves it is about saving the planet which provides a cosy warm glow. Fortunately, for the many MP’s who will lose their jobs this year the reality will hit much like a collapsing roof.
Basically a coalition of useful idiots and sociopaths which is the coalition behind so many of history’s atrocities, presented always as projects for the good of society.
Indeed.
Marcus, I think you are making light of the charge brigade.
(OK, I’ll get my coat ….)
Agreed. The best BEV commercial battery ( Tesla model X at 110kWh 625kg) is less than half the energy density Silicon Nanowire LiON batteries of these newer refinements of what is the same battery technology. Not including the stronger mechanical support and protective structure in which these cells reside. Also the relative efficiencies of Inverter and motor compared with diesel engine and transmission are factored in to these calcs. At lower powers, efficiency of the BEV is 20-30% better than that of a diesel equivalent, making it a better solution for city transport. Ignoring the magical thinking of wind power devotees and the reality of renewable mix to electricity generated by distillate & gas fuels in UK, in charging from the grid the city BEV simply exports more emissions that a diesel car for the same mileage to power plants outside the city.
Maths. Too hard for our dumb politicians. You are right but the failure to make judgements quantatively is a consequence of our education system for 3 decades. Few disciples of climate emergency groupthink amongst my acquaintance have any idea what 425ppm means; fewer have grasped the concepts I’ve discussed in the above para !
Precisely.
And don’t forget that Tesla doesn’t make batteries. That’s Panasonic. Tesla assembles the cells quite well and the BMS is pretty cool, but it’s still just a battery, inferior chemistry to that employed by Porsche for example, but still with 1/14th the energy density.
And physics is beyond them. Electric cars need electricity – they don’t understand that.
The start point for the ‘transition’ to BEVs is to build the generating capacity to meet the increasing electric demand, and the transmission infrastructure from source to point of use, to carry and distribute the increased load.
Otherwise it’s like insisting everyone manufactures and sells trains before building railways for them to run on.
I agree, chemical based batteries are the weak point of all electric vehicles. Their technology has not improved much for over 100 years. They are some of the most toxic products we make. It takes about 200 lb of battery to contain an equivalent amount of energy to 1 lb of fuel. This has improved slightly with billions of R&D. There has never been a breakthrough to radically improve this ratio. Until we find a better way of storing electricity, all electric vehicles will be severely limited and remain highly polluting and environmentally unfriendly. There is no climate crisis so there is no reason to mandate these highly toxic vehicles.
Car companies are not backing away from BEVs. They never wanted to make them in the first place. But stupid laws, made by stupid politicians, force them to either make them or give masses of their profits to companies that do make them (the latter being the only way Tesla can sometimes show a “profit”, because it loses money every time it sells a BEV).
Otherwise, the proper car manufacturers risk having their licences revoked.
Elon is laughing (and selling his TSLA all the time, but not too much too soon, or the fan boys would get spooked).
Akio Toyoda resigned as CEO in 2021 and was made Chairman because he opposed the company’s move to all electric vehicles. Toyota, as a company, is still moving lockstep with the other car companies.
I have a random question, if anyone might know the answer. Do Tesla mass produce white cars? Electric cars are very popular where I am and I seem to always be driving or parked next to Teslas. But last night, in David Lloyd’s car park, we counted 8 of them then a 9th came in as we were leaving. Then we counted another 4 on the way home. All white. Well, my daughter did. I think this is going to become a ‘thing’ now when we’re out. Seeing if she can count more each time.
So Teslas are obviously popular among DL members, according to my observation. Clearly budget would factor into this too as neither Teslas nor DL memberships are cheap. But why white?? Like, I seriously can’t think of a worse, more impractical colour car to buy.
I am not a fan of EV’s but if you forced me at gunpoint to choose one, it would be a Tesla. They are the best of a bad lot. Range, charging speed, charging network are all market leading. The build quality can be a bit hit and miss is probably their biggest weakness.
YouTube channel Harry’s Garage reviewed an all-electric BMW 5-series this month. Now bearing in mind the ‘5’ is the motorway mile muncher of choice for execs the world over, it has two major flaws. One: it only has a range of approx 240 miles so useless for the target market, and two: it costs almost £100k (with dealer discount) – before adding a single option. So completely unaffordable unless it’s a corporate tax deduction.
The EV market will consolidate around Tesla’s in the premium segment and Chinese imports like BYD for anyone else.
My car is white Mogs.
Anyways, re the common as muck white Teslas, perhaps that colour is cheaper due to more cleaning input being required..
“Well I was bound to offend at least 1 person!
”
Now Mogs after more than three years chatting here on DS I would like to think you understand my personality enough to know that comments about the colour of my car are never going to upset me.
I have almost zero interest in motor vehicles. I own a white Dacia and there are three primary reasons:
1. It has 4-wheel drive
2. It runs on diesel
3. It has a real handbrake
Oh, and it was cheap. I needed a replacement just over 12 months ago as the other had rotted underneath and I anticipated not having many driving years left with all these bloody bans so wasn’t prepared to pay out for a fancy motor.
Here is another hux aphorism you may wish to adopt –
“All cars look the same from behind the steering wheel.”
Haha, yes true! Well a couple of my daughter’s friend’s have made snobby remarks about our car just because it’s not electric, therefore it’s not “new”. But their parents drive a company/lease car so of course they’re the latest snazzy model, which they can upgrade over time. I’m not a snob or materialistic person and just go on practicalities like how a car feels to drive and the room inside. I’ve no intention of ever buying electric.
I think with kids though, not only are they exposed to the environmental bollocks in school but then there’s the peer pressure to keep up with ‘soandso’, so it can be quite an uphill battle trying to undo the influence of others whilst deradicalizing them from the ‘climate change/environment’ agenda.
Yes I go for practicality and am not a badge snob. I bought a car the other day, my choice was between a Skoda Octavia and a Toyota Avensis. Both diesel, hatchback, service history etc, but chose the Toyota because the cam belt was in a chain so no worries about cam belt because you have to replace the water pump with the new belt usually costing around £600.
“deradicalizing them from the ‘climate change/environment’ agenda.”
Keep up the good work Mogs.
Not a Jaguar.
I just don’t care about motors Ron. So long as it starts when I need it and isn’t always needing repairs it will do.
True….a snazzy dashboard doesn’t mean that much if you’re always stuck at the side of a road.
White is the standard no cost option on Teslas I think. Every other colour is extra.
White probably appeals to the virtue signallers.
I might take exception to that Richard.
No offence intended. I have a white motorsport spec white Mitsubishi Evolution. White is a base colour for many models but as you will no doubt agree I white car is a pain to keep clean if you can be bothered. And as you say you can’t see how dirty it is from the inside..
Ron, I know there was no offence intended which is why I added the smiley emoji.
Keeping the car clean? Oh regular as clockwork. About once a quarter. ‘Ish.
Anyway it gets cleaned regularly these days with all the global boiling rain. It has pissed down solid for the last 12 hours here in Saddleworth.
Apart from the idea of contradicting Henry Ford (“You can have any colour you like as long as it’s black), white is the default colour and you pay extra for colour options. So says my Tesla-owning brother.
Thanks, Jon. That’s the answer then. Mine is a grey/silver colour, which hides the muck rather nicely. Especially handy at this slushy time of year.
White cars only….Reminds me of the film Equilibrium where individualism must be stamped out for the greater good!
Geoff Buys Cars thinks it was never about EVs VS ICE. It was a trap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNK0mUhRKDo
Saw this on YouTube last night but not yet watched it. Will have a look today.
Interesting to see that Toyota are expressing that view. They do have one model that is battery electric, though. A couple of weeks ago, at the Toyota dealer that services my Toyota Yaris (which is a petrol/electric hybrid) they had a couple of their Bz4x products. It’s a large SUV style product (4.69m long & 1.86m wide), with a gross vehicle weight of about 2.5 tonnes. They had one inside the show room, that took up a fair bit of space, and a couple outside connected to charge points.
It doesn’t interest me – just about twice the capital outlay, and less useful for the type of trip I do. The fashion for SUV cars looks kind of contradictory to the idea of reducing the amount of energy required, and the Bz4x is roughly double the weight of a Yaris. Balances the capital outlay, perhaps – but don’t ask about depreciation!
ZEV Mandate
All very well but the UK has a Zero Emissions Vehicles (ZEV) Mandate and by 2027 that mandate requires that 38% of cars sold are ZEVs. And so the UK ZEV mandate and the boss of Toyota are on a collision course, what happens? who blinks first? If people continue to recognise that owning your own battery electric vehicle (BEV) is an unacceptable cost and liability and thus ZEV sales are low and the Gov sticks to its ZEV mandate, then very few cars will be sold. The UK motor industry is a key economic force if we are willing to sacrifice the motor industry? then we are well on the way to net-zero immiseration and general hard times.
Meanwhile, for much of the world, where Toyota sells it vehicles, petrol/diesel (ICE) vehicles will continue to sell well and provide essential transport. If you need to travel around Africa you need an ICE Toyota Hi-Lux or Land Cruiser, you do not want to take a Tesla on Safari!
The UK ZEV mandate is a huge net-zero battle ground, will they stick to it or will they eventually have to back down? It seems to me that much depends on the result of this battle.
Like Mrs May….They expect to be gone with big rewards before the sh@t hits the fan.
I’ve been driving EVs for years. Not for any ‘green’ reason – it just works for our driving needs. I see a lot of comments from people who exaggerate their downsides, but I’ve been really happy with them. I have no doubt that the market will move away from ICE once EVs, or something else, get to the point where they work as well for everybody’s needs as they do for ours. That’s not the case now. Far from it. EVs should be a available as an option among others, and let the market determine how well they sell without any government interference.
Electric milk floats have been around for decades. Quiet for the early morning streets and great for constant stop-start, low distance travel.
Make the tool match the job. Simple, eternal truth.
Driven by market need, not regulations and net zero hysteria unlike evs.
A similar point of view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6fo26hy5J8 ‘Ford Mach E test drive..’ by a character who’s site I see from time to time, North Wales SXS.
Well, no surprises here. The majority of the world’s drivers can’t afford, and don’t want, EVs.