In a recent op-ed for the Daily Mail, Boris Johnson argued that “all of us in the West” need to “double and treble our support” to Ukraine. More specifically, he called for the transfer of “longer-range artillery” and “hundreds of tanks”. “They need planes”, Boris noted, hinting that the West should supply those as well. His final message: “Let’s give the Ukrainians all they need to win now.”
Now, I don’t deny that Boris’s reinvention as an ultra-hawkish cheerleader for Ukraine has less to do with any deep-seated principles he might hold than with a desire to rescue his reputation after the Partygate scandal (and a career of gaffes, missteps and foolish decisions).
What’s more, my own stance on Ukraine hasn’t changed. I still believe we should be pressuring both sides to negotiate – not at some point in the future, but now. So why the title of this post?
Simple. Boris has taken the ‘we must arm Ukraine’ position to its logical conclusion: namely, that we must arm Ukraine enough to actually win.
As I noted in a previous article, it’s unclear that Ukraine can win decisively with our current level of assistance. General Zaluzhny has said he needs “300 tanks, 600-700 IFVs, 500 howitzers” to push Russia back to the lines of February 23rd. But so far, he hasn’t got anything close to that. And if we’re not going to give it to him, why prolong the war?
Enter Boris: ‘We should give Zaluzhny what he’s asked for’.
By contrast, the position of Emmanuel Macron and Olaf Scholz seems to be roughly: ‘We should give Ukraine as much as the Americans, Brits and Poles bully us into giving. If this prolongs the war, so be it. But at least we won’t look “pro-Russian” on the international stage’.
It’s abundantly clear that this war is a major loss for France and Germany – the supposed ‘leaders’ of Europe. Yet Macron and Scholz don’t have the courage to act in their national interest – for example, by leading a broad coalition of countries in support of diplomacy. Instead, they’ve been cajoled and strong-armed into handing over increasingly advanced weapons, while hoping that war will just kind of work itself out.
How can you respect that? In addition to ignoring their own national interests, they’re also ignoring the interests of Ukrainians – whom they supposedly care about. By giving the country some assistance, but not enough to actually win, they’re just ensuring that more of them get killed.
Don’t get me wrong: I strongly disagree with Boris’s proposal, which among other things carries a dangerous risk of catastrophic escalation. But at least it’s coherent. The Macron-Scholz position makes no sense at all.
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This is the ‘Truman Show’ war, and all its delivering (apart from thousands of dead on both sides) is near fatal instability and the absurd situation where, if the Isle of Man declared war on us, we would have to capitulate, as all our heavy weapons are in Kiev.
He’s delusional, and so are you. At least he has an excuse, he’s a narcissistic self absorbed politician who thinks he’s Churchill reincarnated. And he needed a distraction from his shambolic handling of Covid. What’s your excuse? It’s not our war.
I said “I strongly disagree with Boris’s proposal”. I was trying to make a point about the cowardliness of Macron and Scholz.
He is not worthy of the column inches. Your title is clickbait and the article is filler.
I agree about the title, but the article is more about the inconsistencies of others’ positions than it is about the ex-PM
Don’t get drawn into it Noah. I disagree completely with your logic, but understand the point you’re making – understand, not agree. Unfortunately, there are lots of people that just want to abuse others and just need an excuse to do so; one of the many sad revelations (to me at least) to come out of the whole Covid debacle.
There’s not much I’d call abuse above, it’s more like angry rebukes.
With which I agree.
You know Mr Carl, this fat pigfucker of a psychopath you are looking to praise ACTUALLY TRIED TO KILL US.
Yes? Has that sunk in yet?
Or do you still believe the vaccines were not a kill job?
So excuse us for being a bit touchy.
It’s high time THE GLOVES WERE OFF. THIS IS WAR.
DO *NOT* COME HERE PRAISING THESE MURDERERS.
Mr Carl knows how to choose his words so am puzzled why he used the word “praise” in the headline. It’s not really praise – he’s just pointing out that BJ’s stupid position on this subject is less inconsistent that some other people’s stupid positions.
That would have been a much better title…..
As I said, it’s filler that should never have made it off the sub editor’s desk.
I’m not sure it is very helpful to criticise Macron or Scholz on the basis of coherence or cowardice. Both accusations may be correct but they are not operating in a political vacuum. The dominant narrative in the west is that to learn the lesson of history we must arm Ukraine or repeat the mistakes of Chamberlain. This line of argument is underpinned by a simplistic and erroneous equation of Putin = Hitler. First Austria then the whole of Europe.
But many leaders in Europe are not entirely committed to all out war. It could be because they don’t want a mother of all battles over the Crimea? It could be because they experienced the actuality of WW2 more directly than we did. But I agree with you and also “strongly disagree with Boris’s proposal”. In my opinion he is extremely dangerous and it reflects a rose tinted view of war and his personal and regrettable modelling on Churchill.
Or maybe they are being smart ‘keeping up appearances’ whilst realising this is a no-win situation.
Pragmatic perhaps and certainly not honourable, but then why would we expect anything other from the political filth that rules our ‘free’ democracies?
To understand Boris is to realise that Boris never does anything that does not advance the interests of Boris.
Nothing about that is commendable.
Once that is understood, then try and figure out what is his WIIFM. (What’s In It For Me: or maybe WIIFIB).
Britain apparently declared war on Germany because of a promise to keep Poland independent. Look at the outcome, Poland was occupied by the USSR along with the the rest of eastern Europe. What if we had done nothing?
Never mind
I suppose the blatantly obvious response to why “Let’s give the Ukrainians all they need to win now.” is not a good idea is that it pushes the war closer to becoming nuclear. In fact, as Russia is unlikely to ever back down, it pretty much guarantees it. I have my doubts about the whole thing, but negotiation was, and always will be, the only way to end this. That won’t happen anytime soon because the war serves many globalist goals.
And if it does go nuclear then Ukraine will be ground zero
And London.
The Tsar Bomba, the largest USSR bomb ever tested, would not only wipe out London, but parts of its neighbouring counties too.
There are times when I despair with the editorial policy on DS and this is one of them.
We have an utterly deranged and murderous failure of an ex Prime Minister strutting about on the European stage seeking to ramp up a war in which we have no stake and DS thinking “Oh well Bozo is just letting his inner Churchill out for a play – must humour him.”
Has DS forgotten what we are all doing here? This blonde Next Tuesday has such contempt for his fellow Britons and humanity in general that he is desperately trying to escalate a European war in which we need have no involvement whatsoever save for what we might bring to peace negotiations. Yes, not content with the horrors he has inflicted on his home country this pathetic excuse of a human being is quite prepared to risk the lives of millions.
Unbelievable!
As an absolute minimum this mad criminal should be locked up.
Very shallow and disappointing Noah.
Boris’ main concern is lining his pockets (and bank accounts).
Absolutely….…we are going to see him taking up a ‘post’ somewhere soon, I think…
He was at Davos and then on to Ukraine…why? Who paid for it? He has no official post in the Government…and if he was asked to go officially why don’t we know why?
watch this space!!
“There are times when I despair with the editorial policy on DS and this is one of them.”
Don’t you want to hear a range of opinions, and have your own opinions challenged, rather than just opinions you already agree with?
It seems not. This group is becoming as much an echo chamber as the Guardian. We got here by thinking critically, but are becoming unable to think critically about our own scepticism. The light’s on amber for me.
LOL! Yes it’s just like the Guardian……I am an I ..not a we…I’m quite capable of still thinking critically….…and scepticaly…..maybe stop reading the Guardian??
Thanks for proving my point.
…I didn’t….the guardian is a fact-free zone, generally, hence it’s an echo chamber…the Sceptic, and the people on it, are usually basing their opinions on the latest data…it’s a very different scenario….
Odd, because you are usually one of them..what happened?
Strange article to make this kind of point about.
If this were true, and perhaps it is, on what actual point are we arguing?
The problem with Noah’s article is he is not taking the side of either character, Boris or the Eurotwats. He is just playing some silly logic game.
To insult people here for finding it pointless is rather unnecessary l
No, he makes his own position very clear – a negotiated settlement now. And that Macron and Scholz’s positions are self serving and incoherent.
For a supposedly open minded sceptical forum, the near uniform view regarding this matter on here gives off an unattractive and pungent whiff of (perhaps, in some cases, venal) partial and narrow minded bigotry.
Or perhaps we realise that the people behind lockdowns,mass jabbing with slow-acting poisons, population replacement, the tranny evil, the destruction of our culture, the indoctrination and demoralisation of our children and so many more evils are hardly likely to be on the side of truth and goodness when it comes to this conflict.
As I say, ‘supposedly open minded…..’
I’m open to honest, rational argument.
You don’t supply it.
Loving the humour……
I wouldn’t bother with Monro he’s just about useful for helping the count. That’s all.
Eloquent and succinct.
…to quote a famous saying…you would say that wouldn’t you? LOL!
It may very well be that a number of these ‘let’s all give ourselves a big pat on the back’ clones on here belong to a particular political organisation whose time has come and gone…..though its funding, of varied origins, some quite possibly unsavoury, continues……
Why am I not surprised that you’re not brave enough to name the “particular political organisation”?
If the cap fits……
But you refuse to describe the cap. Or its size.
You’ve got to be the most worthless commenter on this very valuable site.
You are too hard on yourself.
I wasn’t going to comment on this article at all..it’s pretty daft….
but….Hux you are right, it’s a plainly stupid article…and that’s just MY opinion!
If Noah can find the slightest thing to admire in Boris then that’s up to him…I can’t find a single thing.
If being a warmongering-nutter, amongst all his other failings…is admirable..then we have different ideas of what admirable is….and quite frankly if that lying, cheating, immoral tub of lard is admirable, God knows who else you have as a hero….?
Stepan Bandera?
I also don’t see what’s particularly cowardly about Macron or Schultz either…and it’s a rather juvenile way to look at a situation where atomic war might be the end result don’t you think?
Maybe they understand that the ordinary public, overwhelmingly, want some kind of talks and a peaceful resolution…as I am pretty sure the poor benighted people of Ukraine do as well….they also probably understand that when it suits the USA, (who they must know by now committed the Nordstream 2 bombings)….they’ll ditch Europe at the drop of a hat…leaving the basket-case that is Ukraine on their doorstep…
How can peace talks or any kind of resolution be found when whenever Boris talks he pretty much demands that Ukraine don’t have any talks with Putin?
As he’s now been awarded a medal as an honorary citizen of Kiev…LOL!
(let’s face it it’s so farcical is brilliant….it’s like war done Disney style….)
maybe he should go to the front line with the tanks?…….
Thanks ebg and much common sense as usual.
What about this scenario:
Let’s imagine that Krankie had an Independece referendum last year and let’s imagine she won said referendum. This year a failing puppet president from a relatively minor mid European country visits Krankie and in an effort to bolster his standing both at home and internationally offers to send an army of oh I don’t know but lets say 50,000 troops with appropriate heavy duty hardware – tanks, fighter aircraft, bombers etc. It’s just a show of support for the people of Scotland and nothing more.
What sort of reaction should we expect from the ‘government’ in Westminster?
Should we see this as an aggressive act towards England and Wales as the foreign army moves its HQ in to Edinburgh Castle?
Or should we just ignore Krankie and continue to wind down our Armed Forces?
Judging by the remarks of some of the “Comment is free” escapees my scenario above is just fantasy but ridiculous and outlandish events seem to be a daily occurrence on Planet Earth these days.
And on the subject of the evil known as Bozo I agree that he should be leading from the front and advancing on the Russian front lines with all his covid co-optees; Midazolam can be his No.2, Fishy as chief scout, Chunt in charge of the sandwiches and the likes of Whiltless,Jabbit, Raine, Van Dim and Vailant can be his Einsatzgruppen.
And the rest of us can cheer them off from the comfort of our sofas.
Lurvley.
Yes, Boris and all the ‘armchair warriors’ who so proudly support sending weapons to Ukraine, to kill even more young men in a futile cause should sign up and go…..the sooner, the better….
Poroshenko promised peace with Russia and was voted out when he failed to deliver…Zelenskyy was voted in because peace with Russia was his main policy…..
Do you think for a moment that the people of Ukraine wouldn’t get rid of him if they could, for exactly the same reasons?
Between the ineptitude of its own Government and the ridiculous fairy-stories being circulated in the media about the glory of war, the poor buggers are truly trapped in the middle….and we haven’t got one adult person in the room who wants to find an end to the killing….
Well said.
The editorial policy should be censorship?
With Syria and Afghanistan off the table, the big defence contractors where in danger of missing their quarterly earnings. How convenient then that this all kicked off. A peaceful solution is not good for profits but drip-feeding just enough military equipment to prolong the conflict works wonders for the bottom line. Bollinger’s all round at the next board meeting!
Maybe we finally learnt that Blairite ‘interventionism’ is extremely high risk and expensive, both in blood and treasure; we cannot will the mission without also willing the means; realpolitik.
Leaving regional powers to slug it out is the legacy of past incompetent interventionism.
Putin spotted that. Unfortunately for him, as with so many venal, corrupt, despots before him, his vision was less than 20/20 regarding the effectiveness of his own internal policies, particularly those designed to transform the Russian military.
Democracy: the least worst system of government
…I think you mean US interventionism…since about 1950, that’s roughly 200 ‘interventions’ …
even Blair can’t match that…neither can Russia….
By all means discuss US interventionism yourself. You are entitled to your opinion. But do not misrepresent me.
I am only concerned with Blair’s interventionism, the number of my countrymen that it killed through willing the mission but not the means, and its effect on Britain’s foreign policy today.
Those who want the war to continue essentially want tens of thousands more young white men to die and more than that to be maimed.
Indeed, and as bottom lines go that is one hell of an indictment.
This is clearly not”our” war and we should have no part in supporting a very corrupt Government in Kiev .
Putin is not the good guy either as there are years worth of post Minsk agreement wrongdoing on both sides .Its compounded of course by our dear freinds over the pond whose black op doings have been stirring up things especially the 2014 Maiden revolution.
Its one big shXXX show and we should have no part in it.
Our only role must be is helping towards a negotiated solution .
Remember the blonde pig dictator is not your freind ,only his !!
I for one can’t get over the video. Middle of winter in Kyiv and there is no snow, no ice, no frost. Ukrainians standing around in sweatshirts without coats and hats when Eastern Europeans and Slavs are paranoid about the cold. What is one to think?
As you hinted , it could ( Will ) have catastrophic repercussions ! It’s tempting Putin to think F this & throw the kitchen sink at us all !!
America is the protagonist I’m afraid !!
Does it matter to the British people which areas they’ve never heard of are ruled from Moscow and which from Kiev? Nope.
Are western governments supplying weapons to the Ukrainians because they’re committed to the non-aggression principle? You’re having a laugh.
Would a deal last Spring have resulted in the deaths of far, far fewer white young men? Of course it would.
Does the USA want to dismember Russia the better to steal its wealth? Yep.
Have the people behind support for Ukraine showed elsewhere that they loathe European Christians, our cultures, our achievements and even our landscapes? Absolutely.
Indeed. We’re facing a potential nuclear holocaust over a war in a far-off country the average Joe couldn’t point out on a map. This war is the perfect demonstration of the post-COVID-19 landscape: a war between politicians grandstanding on the global stage with no concern for the consequences on the ordinary citizens of their own countries.
The best option would be to put Zelensky in a UFC cage with Putin and let them duke it out. Winner takes all. Then put Johnson, Macron and others in the cage and let them duke it out with Putin and his appointed champions. This is the war of elitist international leaders and nothing to do with our countries. Meanwhile, the citizens of Ukraine bleed and ancient cities full of human history burn.
The U.S. is now being run by its administrative state and is a danger to the world. If the E.U. traded with Russia it would make the world a safer place. The U.S. does not want Germany aligning with Russia and also sees this as an opportunity to damage E.U. competitiveness and at the same time sell the E.U. fossil fuels.
The only way to stop this is to stand up to U.S. insanity. Unfortunately there are too many in our government only too eager to please.
Spot on.
It’s a sign of how useless politicians have become when we praise them for being “coherent”. Many people are or have been coherent: from Pol Pot to Harold Shipman. This war needs Johnson as much as we need his covid policies. What is needed above all else is a path to peace; however long, hard, humiliating even, that may be. Johnson, like many Western politicians, have made the mistake of hubristically believing their own lies and propaganda; that Ukraine and the West bear no responsibilty for this conflicft or its context and that zelensky is some kind of benevolent hero defending a totally blameless democracy. Johnson deserves not a shred of praise for fanning the flames of war.
This war needs to end. If Zelensky won’t negotiate with Putin, he needs to be taken out and replaced with someone who will.
I’m going to use Monro’s method of arguing..
I’m pleased that while he’s commenting here he’s not paying attention to his collection.
I’m looking forward to this pointless piece of mental masturbation no longer being the lead article.
Maybe then we can address actual issues.
Projectionism. You need help with that before you do your eyesight any more damage……
Scholz and Macron? It’s obvious. Any immediate resolution of the crisis would define the eastern frontier of the European Union until futher notice. And then what?
The administrators of the Customs Union and the European Economic Area would be saddled with, er, a hard border either between Kiev and Donetsk or Donetsk and Moscow to be policed, patrolled and videoed, all violations to be referred to Boris Johnson, the EU-NATO Joint High Intermediary for the Pontic-Caspian, with plenipotentiary powers to strut about doing… er, er, er.
Every further article you publish on this subject will be tainted with the stench of clickbait you’ve sown in this one until you overcome it.
I’ll let others pick apart the details, but I want to say that Lockdown Sceptics is a community forged in the fire of resistance to the greatest assault on humanity ever witnessed.
Because of that, I have a huge amount of goodwill towards the writers of this publication and any future writers the founders choose to put forward.
These writers need to come to revere the responsibility and the power they have to shape history, rather than fold into their background after this assault.
They are the champions of a small but committed audience that intends to uphold a worthy legacy and won’t fall to the plague of lies that’s been thrown at us. We won’t join the others because we’re horrified by where they’re being led.
Don’t lower yourself to writing such lazy exploitative nonsense. Whilst I would never tell anyone what to write, I can also tell when someone’s phoning it in. Recognise the responsibility you have when you write for this publication and this committed audience and live up to it.
If you don’t know what to write any more and you feel like you’re slipping back into your bourgeoise relativism in your peer group because “Covid’s over”, then engage with your readers over your peer group – because we’re never going back. The dividing line that was established by Covid and which Lockdown Sceptics made clear to us all, will not be erased until a fundamental change of course has been made in this country. And the rest of the world (including the USA) is founded on the progress humans have made in this country.
At the same time, don’t hide your journey. I was so disappointed to see Nick Dixon’s “A Bridgen Too Far” article disappear from this site. It was a bad article, but it was honestly expressed. Why erase it if it was honest?
You’ve done valuable work, but writing for this audience and for the principles this publication was founded on requires more. Next time you sit down at your keyboard I hope you dig deeper.
Bloody hell. Many thanks. A wonderful post.
‘Every further article you publish on this subject will be tainted with the stench of clickbait you’ve sown in this one until you overcome it..Don’t lower yourself to writing such lazy exploitative nonsense…You’ve done valuable work, but writing for this audience and for the principles this publication was founded on requires more.’
I don’t agree with Mr Carl’s overall stance on the Russian invasion of Ukraine (at least partially blaming the US, NATO, West in general, Ukraine itself etc), but I hugely admire his willingness to speak independently and not be captured by the blatantly sectarian, close-minded, propagandist and personally abusive extreme pro-Kremlin elements on this site.
In that sense his articles are a credit to the individualistic and free-thinking ethic of the Daily Sceptic.
‘They are the champions of a small but committed audience that intends to uphold a worthy legacy and won’t fall to the plague of lies that’s been thrown at us. We won’t join the others because we’re horrified by where they’re being led.’
A) You have neither the right nor ability to speak in this collectivising manner on behalf of others. The Daily Sceptic is an individualistic rather than clique based or uniform forum.
At a more general level there are no fundamental ‘them’ and ‘us’ in life, this concept is simply the propagandist basis for all sectarianism and induced conflict.
B) The hugely damaging tyrannical COVID policies were mainly imposed under the auspices of a near universally held misguided communistic ideology (ultra-health / environmentalism) coupled with faith in the faux science of computer modelling rather than deliberate deception.
As opposed to the Russian Federation’s decades long malicious interference in Ukraine culminating in its all-out invasion of last February;
Every one of whose excuses for such an exercise in neo-fascistic, mass murderous imperialism being an outright lie.
So the appropriate stance, especially on a free-thinking, anti-authoritarian and anti-propaganda platform such as the Daily Sceptic, should be one of vehement opposition.
Russia are clearly winning and Johnson kowtowing to the 4th most corrupt country on the planet is not a good look
The objective of NATO policy in Ukraine is not incoherent. It is appallingly coherent. It is clear that the objective is to prolong the war as long as possible, in order to degrade the Russian military as much as possible.
If you understand that, then the French and German position becomes understandable.
‘I still believe we should be pressuring both sides to negotiate’
Mr Carl, and so many on here, make the fundamental error of assuming that a negotiated peace is possible.
It is not.
Ukraine has no confidence in any Russian signature to any negotiated treaty.
Even a cessation of support to Ukraine will not end Ukrainian resistance, simply turn it into a long and bloody insurgency. Ukraine is awash with Soviet weaponry of all kinds, readily available. Furthermore, brutal Russian reprisals to such an insurgency will give political opponents of incumbent western governments a perpetual open goal.
The only way this conflict ends is via a unilaterally imposed buffer zone on the pre 2014 Ukrainian border, as guaranteed by this country in 1994, patrolled by the United Nations and backed up by a numerous and modernised Ukrainian military, with further international guarantees.
‘… , but not enough to actually win.. ‘
What exactly would a ‘win’ for Ukraine actually look like?
If Russia removes its military from the rubble that used to be Ukraine would that be a win?
Would Russia disappear?
It is not OUR fight.
We made it our fight in 1994:
‘…the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression.’
Budapest memorandum 1994
One simple fact: Ukraine/Russia is nothing to do with us.
This is the same Boris Johnson who declared war inf the British people in March 2020.
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A ridiculous view – giving them weapons and money results in more death and destruction. This is not our war so we should not be taking sides. Wars only happen when politicians have money to fight them and that is something they seem to take great pleasure in doing.