27 March 2021  /  Updated 17 July 2021
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Can anyone explain why we had a spike in deaths in England folling the ramp up of the vaccine?

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Mal Jones
Posts: 9
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(@mal-jones)
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That data looks very concerning - Have you posted it on Twitter & shared with Joel Smalley, Ivor Cummins, Dr Claire Craig & Julia Hartley-Brewer?

All the data that I have seen indicates that as as the Covid vaccine was rolled out in England from early Dec, there was a rise in deaths that almost mirrored the increase in the number of vaccinations. Has anyone any credible data that explains this pattern?

You could have a look here and see what you think.

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Mal Jones
Posts: 9
Topic starter
(@mal-jones)
Joined: 1 year ago

If people who are vaccinated are testing +ve for covid, as a result of the vaccination, would that not mask the issue in your dataset? Have you seen the data that Mike Austin linked in his reply to my post? Those data show a strong link between increased death rates and increased vaccinations. What are your thoughts on Mike's analysis?

All the data that I have seen indicates that as as the Covid vaccine was rolled out in England from early Dec, there was a rise in deaths that almost mirrored the increase in the number of vaccinations. Has anyone any credible data that explains this pattern?

Finally, before Mike Yeadon unfortunately left Twitter he re-tweeted a FOI request asking for details of the number of people that had died following covid vaccination. Does anyone know what the status of this FOI request is and whether we have had an answer?

There may be a spike but the trend closely follows the number of reported positive tests. The diagram uses 7 day averages from the Johns Hopkins world Covid data set and shows the positive UK test rate in thick blue and the 16 day shifted death rate in thin blue. For comparison I have included Italy, which is a bit behind on the vaccines, in red and with the same death time shift made. Actually it's the same for most countries.
Picture 3.png

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MikeAustin
Posts: 1193
(@mikeaustin)
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If people who are vaccinated are testing +ve for covid, as a result of the vaccination, would that not mask the issue in your dataset? Have you seen the data that Mike Austin linked in his reply to my post? Those data show a strong link between increased death rates and increased vaccinations. What are your thoughts on Mike's analysis?

I do not know if there is a link. Due to anecdotal, anonymous reports of problems after vaccinations in care homes, I wanted to see if there was any correlation. The data for deaths and for vaccinations in the elderly - particularly in care homes - share a trend.

The unreliable PCR mass testing for cases and deaths can tend to swamp everything. The curves of cases and deaths nearly match if one puts a chosen delay in - such as 16 days. But the more probable delay would actually be 21 days, which is 28 days average infection to death less 7 days for symptoms to appear.

But, as there is more likelihood of a PCR test picking up a past infection rather than a live infection, trying to tie cases to deaths - determined solely by PCR - is not realistic.

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checkthefacts
Posts: 947
(@checkthefacts)
Joined: 12 months ago

If people who are vaccinated are testing +ve for covid, as a result of the vaccination, would that not mask the issue in your dataset? Have you seen the data that Mike Austin linked in his reply to my post? Those data show a strong link between increased death rates and increased vaccinations. What are your thoughts on Mike's analysis?

All the data that I have seen indicates that as as the Covid vaccine was rolled out in England from early Dec, there was a rise in deaths that almost mirrored the increase in the number of vaccinations. Has anyone any credible data that explains this pattern?

Finally, before Mike Yeadon unfortunately left Twitter he re-tweeted a FOI request asking for details of the number of people that had died following covid vaccination. Does anyone know what the status of this FOI request is and whether we have had an answer?

There may be a spike but the trend closely follows the number of reported positive tests. The diagram uses 7 day averages from the Johns Hopkins world Covid data set and shows the positive UK test rate in thick blue and the 16 day shifted death rate in thin blue. For comparison I have included Italy, which is a bit behind on the vaccines, in red and with the same death time shift made. Actually it's the same for most countries.
Picture 3.png

We are at a point, where the number of vaccinated people is still strongly increasing, yet the number of deaths is strongly declining.

Distinct indication that there is no correlation nor causation between vaccinations and the peak in deaths.

Attempting to persuade people of such is very wrong.

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Splatt
Posts: 1609
(@splatt)
Joined: 1 year ago

But, as there is more likelihood of a PCR test picking up a past infection rather than a live infection, trying to tie cases to deaths - determined solely by PCR - is not realistic.

...which is why you need symptoms for a PCR test...

The death trend also follows the spike in hospital admissions and a spike in ICU admissions.

So with appropriate lead times the death curve follows the (i) cases (ii) hospital admissions (iii) ICU admissions.

It does not however follow anything like the shape of the vaccination graph.

If it walks like a duck...

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