We have become monomaniac in our veneration of Ukraine and condemnation of Russia. I fear that America is much more addicted to wars than Russia is , so let us briefly remind ourselves of US involvement in recent land wars in recent years.
War in Afghanistan (2001–2021), result America flung out by Taliban
American intervention in Yemen,(2002–present) result, ongoing, thousands dead
Iraq War (2003–2011) result, retreat, tail between legs, no less that 100 thousand dead.
American intervention in the War in North-West Pakistan (2004–2018), not less than 2,00 dead.
Second U.S. Intervention in the Somali Civil War (2007–present), result - retreat tail firmly between legs, deaths:not less that 2,00 violent deaths.
International intervention in Libya (2011). result- killed the president, not less than 400 deaths.
The War in Afghanistan(2001–2021), result - retreat tail fimly between legs, not less that 6,000 deaths.
The list goes on for many more paes, many more are killed by evil American actiona, and plenty of Brits joined in the slaughter.It is just the way it is…
Good luck, but please always pay to look at both sides of the story, esp. when the west has such total control of the propaganda machine, please reread your George Orwell.
This is a selection of some of the things Russian media are claiming:
- There is no war in Ukraine.
- It's the Ukrainians bombing residential areas, not the Russians.
- The Ukrainians are preventing their own families from escaping
- The Ukrainians are welcoming Russian troops as liberating heroes.
- The sanctions on Russian industry have nothing to with the invasion and would have happened anyway.
- Ukrainians are committing genocide, using chemical weapons, developing nuclear bombs, etc etc
This is so stupid that it doesn't make any sense even in itself. If there's no war, how can there be any bombing?
Just hours before war began, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov was still saying that the troops on Ukraine's borders were on ordinary military exercises and we had no right to object.
This is the other side of the story that you, Snootski, think it's important for us to hear. Which bits do you claim to believe?
@lordsnooty Some actual attempt at a serious argument here - good work!
- You admit there's a war! We've reached first base.
- We need to think about more than the last 10 years. There's such a long history of repression of non Russian languages by the Russian or Soviet empires. Many of Russia's neighbours, including Ukraine, bear the scars of that history. The problem we have today is Russia's imperial legacy. What do you think Putin is going to do if he gets control? Compulsory Russian everywhere.
- Prior to Putin's 2014 proxy war, there was a pro Russian majority in both Crimea and the Donbass. But without Putin's encouragement and direct military help, there would have been no war, no breakaway.
- The idea that Putin cares what local people think is a joke. Look what he did to Chechnya. Putin cares about popular majorities only on the rare occasion he actually has one.
- Putin has made the same mistake as Saddam Hussein, when he tried for the whole of Kuwait instead just the Rumalia oilfield on the border (which he would have got away with). The seizure by Putin of an entire sovereign state, if permitted, unleashes wars of aggression across the globe. There's much more at stake than Putin here.
- Putin has saved NATO from disbandment due to lack of interest. This will be remembered not just for the brutality, but also as one of the worst foreign policy blunders of all time.
- We're approaching a moment of extreme danger. As his invasion falters, Putin appears to be seriously considering bringing his proxy state, Belarus into the war, and also the use of chemical weapons. Either of these are such a serious escalation that they push things to the point where direct NATO intervention becomes difficult to resist. Do I need to say where that might end?
- For you, for me, for all of us, the only way out of this is the removal of Putin. There is no available happy outcome for the world that has Putin in it.
@lordsnooty good work!
- There is no available happy outcome for the world that has Putin in it.
Thank you for your kind words. I know it was very good work.It is nice of you to confirm it.
For the time being you are stuck with Putin, and so you'll just have to suck that up.I'm sorry to break it to you fingal, but nobody gets out of here alive. Not a single one of the 7.753 billion
Anyone watching the news will be horrified by the observed effects on the ground of the eastwards expansion of NATO and the EU. Russia (the greatest country on earth ) had requested to join both groups and was twice rebuffed. There are now over two million starving penniless refugees trying to get to Dover, as if there were presently too few poor people in England.
You reaped exactly what you sowed, because you chose to act stupidly. So deep shame on you and gormless ones like you, many of these refugees are NAZIs or give succour to NAZIs. Putin is laughing at you , he's foisted his very worst people on England, you stupid mug.
wrt EU/ NATO ... I suspect our dumbass policy makers had not thought/realized what the effect would be, of organizing exclusive clubs to be hostile to Russia. You were prodding the Russian bear, and yet your policy makers acted suddenly surprised when the bear stood on his hind quarters and roared. How stupid do you really pupport to be? Let me assure you it was trivially easy to predict, and it is shocking if you were surprised.
In anycase, one way or the other, due in large part to ideas harebrained US neocons such as the seriously Stupid John Bolton and the practically brain dead, Victoria Nuland , we threw away a once in a millenium chance of bringing Russia in from the cold.
Sadly Le Carre is dead now, but in a speck of compensation, there is sure to be a new genre of cold war 2 literature in the offling, not centred in Vienna, Berlin and Moscow , but in Kiev, Moscow and Sebastopol. I hope you enjoy the new genre... you fool.
@lordsnooty Well Snotski, I gave you a little encouragement because I don't want to depress you. But now look what's happened! You've slipped straight back into your usual script - and I can tell you, it's not an award winner. I have to explain to you that Putin can't join NATO and/or the EU because Russia isn't a democracy. This a precondition of membership - he really should have checked before becoming upset.
@lordsnooty Well Snotski, I gave you a little encouragement because I don't want to depress you.
Our side is winning since the NAZIS in Ukraine snatched defeat from the jaws of victory....
@lordsnooty Russia isn't a democracy.
Russia and her neighbours must presently exists in a state of compromise, while present difficulties settle down.
You or I can make suggestions but please do not be offended, since Russia has seen what a mess your 'west' has made of things, Russia already has 11% of the total world's landmass . So Russia May not soon respond to your orders. Esp. Since, the nations behind NATO are renowned empire builders, subjugators or vile slave trade nations, such as England, Belgium or America.
Please let me know the moment you witness revolution,disorder,or mass discontent in Russia, which seems at present to be solidly behind Mr. Putin I fear your visions of a left wing new world may remain unfulfilled while Russia resolves the second cold war forced on it by the vile racist nations of NATO.
Had Lavrov admitted to an invasion, he would have been imprisoned for 15 years by his own side.
So why look at only one side? Where is your balance?
What about Soviets in Afghanistan, Russia's atrocities including Syria, with chemical weapons. .. and not threatening the same in Ukraine.
So why look at only one side? Where is your balance?
What about Soviets in Afghanistan,
That was a mistake. By the west's darling Mikhail Gorbachev. Yeltsin got rid of him. Another proxy war, but before Putin's time.
Syria
That operation worked brilliantly, it calmed Syria down, very quickly, and it remains calm.... the truth never came out about the British spy James Le Messurier who was orchestrating a campaign of terror using bogus rescue teams called the White Helmets.
So why look at only one side? Where is your balance?
Well on one side, you have a nation that comprises 11% of the earth's land and on the other side is a nation that is a small fraction of 1%, how could it not be one sided? Seriously?
