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Vaccinated vs unvaccinated argument

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(@robnicholson)
Joined: 3 years ago

Before I make myself look even more stupid, can I check the following are factual:

  • UKHSA data suggests that there are more cases in the over 40s per 100k of Covid in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated
  • There is some caveat around unadjusted figures. Not 100% sure what this means but did think it was something to do with population size but DS article suggests that it's not an artefact of that, so the figures are believable
  • If vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid, they are more likely to infect others
  • Vaccinated around ~70% of the UK population and therefore the largest segment

So I draw two conclusions from this:

  1. There is no logical or medical reason for vaccine passports but if there was, it's the vaccinated who should be isolating (more of them, more likely to infect)
  2. Even if figure of twice as likely to catch Covid vaccinated over 40 is too high, the difference in cases and therefore infection is irrelevant. Therefore in the low-risk groups (under 50, certainly under 40) the mantra of "Do no harm" and "You don't give medical interventions to the healthy" should apply and we should halt the vaccination program now?
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(@ewloe)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 319
Posted by: @robnicholson

Before I make myself look even more stupid, can I check the following are factual:

  • UKHSA data suggests that there are more cases in the over 40s per 100k of Covid in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated
  • There is some caveat around unadjusted figures. Not 100% sure what this means but did think it was something to do with population size but DS article suggests that it's not an artefact of that, so the figures are believable
  • If vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid, they are more likely to infect others
  • Vaccinated around ~70% of the UK population and therefore the largest segment

So I draw two conclusions from this:

  1. There is no logical or medical reason for vaccine passports but if there was, it's the vaccinated who should be isolating (more of them, more likely to infect)
  2. Even if figure of twice as likely to catch Covid vaccinated over 40 is too high, the difference in cases and therefore infection is irrelevant. Therefore in the low-risk groups (under 50, certainly under 40) the mantra of "Do no harm" and "You don't give medical interventions to the healthy" should apply and we should halt the vaccination program now?

It's a very thought provoking post which scratches the surface of  the principles of public identity and health records. It's a bit late since we're already using Vaccine Passports, and that's a Fait Accompli, the custom is wait and see if it works or not, since it's already real.

In my view, they won't work. Like masks, may have been worth trying, but we can only learn from the experience.

wrt vaccination, in my view it's the only thing preserving a semblance of normal life in the UK,  too late to quit now, keep jabbing.

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Posts: 51
(@the-real-normal-podcast)
Trusted Member
Joined: 4 years ago

This probably the best video I've watched on this subject since the start of the pandemic. Reasoned. Balanced. Informed. Frightening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lraR1R_Imi8

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