I wonder what the sceptics think of the current developments over in the Ukraine?
How long will it be before pro-Russian misinformation appears on here?
I wonder what the sceptics think of the current developments over in the Ukraine?
I think Washington and London are so full of shit they are choking on their own lies. I have no particular reason to respect Russia except that it is the biggest country on earth by a long stretch and staunch allies with Britain in two world wars. The Russians' sacrifice to defeat Germany is still meaningful to me.Germans and some Europeans may have reason to detest Russia, but Britons have every reason to admire them and what they have done. It's not so easy being the biggest country on earth, lot's of pressures exist to pull it apart, esp. pressures from London and Washington. I think Britain will fall apart before Russia does. That's what history suggests....ireland is already gone, and Scotland has one foot out of the door.
Russians have not defeated Germany, it was Soviets, whose most brave soldiers, e.g.in Stalingrad were Ukrainians. You are watching their grandchildren standing up to a cruel criminal liar snake (and actually now two, including Lukashenko, whose army is in Ukraine already, but lying that it is not), who says he is not bombing civilians while he is, who is pretending to negotiate, while he is rearming. Are you serious? No, you must be crazy. I have relatives trying to escape to Poland, they had to stop their progress because the russcist army is shooting point blank at the cars moving west now on the road. This is NOT propaganda, this is my cousin speaking.
BUT, if your pants are wet, Ok, sit at home and watch this "movie", until you will be in it. For me, the lives of the brave Ukrainians are not worth to save people like you.
Russians have not defeated Germany, it was Soviets, whose most brave soldiers, e.g.in Stalingrad were Ukrainians. You are watching their grandchildren standing up. Are they also the grandchildren of these Ukrainian war criminals?
Are they also the grandchildren of these Ukrainian war criminals?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine
Are you serious? No, you must be crazy. I have relatives trying to escape to Poland, they had to stop their progress because the russcist army is shooting point blank at the cars moving west now on the road.
That is why I want the war to end end as soon as possible . Have a nice life.
I wonder what the sceptics think of the current developments over in the Ukraine?
How long will it be before pro-Russian misinformation appears on here?
If America or Britain get involved, you will soon be talking about hundreds of thousands of deaths like in Vietrnam and the Iraq war - 461,000 est. but perhaps up to o 1,033,000. Whenever NATO or an allied coalition get entangled the effects are two fold.
- the death count spirals and then....
- any way to end the war by negotiation is instantly politicized and hence evaporates.
Putin's had it with NATO, And that's why the Ukraine cannot be allowed to be part of NATO. NATO instantly turns a constrained regional dispute into the next Vietnam/Iraq/Cold War etc.NATO is completely out of control since Donald Trump had to go.
You need to understand, Ukraine in NATO is a smoke screen, an excuse. He was NEVER interest in negotiating. He planned it since 2012 or earlier. His military doctrine was always this - nukes. Read and educate yourself. If you think that by sacrificing this 40 mln people country future, live and freedom you will stop him threatening you with nukes, you are very wrong. It will be the opposite. If it works now, he will know it works. His nuclear threats will get more cruel, sophisticated and targeted. he will divide NATO (already happening), and will pick it one by one. Poland knows it is next, you can see it. Germany got it. When will you get it?
He is not interested in negotiating now. HOW can you not understand it. Are you trying to negotiate with a Hitler? Again? you are insane. Good luck to you.
I wonder what the sceptics think of the current developments over in the Ukraine?
How long will it be before pro-Russian misinformation appears on here?
Well...this site is heaving with Russian misinformation, as you predicted.
Most here seem to be completely in support of the war waged by Russia.
They have swallowed the Putin stated rationale hook line and sinker, believing he had no choice other than invade Ukraine. Even Putin doesn't believe this rationale..he is just behaving like he always has.
The obsession that drives people on this site is to disbelieve the obvious reality and accept anything that states the opposite. These deluded fools are beyond reason.
@stop-believing-start-thinking
It is a Special Military Operation not a War If Russia had declared War we would all know about it. You need to rein in your Russophobia and do a bit more research into why this has happened. Research the history between Ukraine and the Donbass. The two republics in the Donbass which mainly consist of Russian speakers asked President Putin for help as they had been persecuted for 8 years. As for being deluded, you need to remove your russophobic glasses and look at the facts!
@scepitcal It appears the world is doing their damndest to provoke a war with Russia. most of the UK's nuclear subs are in dry dock either with with no fuel rods or awaiting new rods. most of our destroyers are also in drydock awaiting replacement engines so we have no navy. wat navy we do have is useless in its attempts to stop asylum seekers crossing the north sea. if they want to kick start the cold war to justify spending trillions on defence they rick WWIII and that means the Satan II nukes that are now hypersonic. As for Russia being intent on world domination, those who know of the Siege of Leningrad that ended in 1944 some 872 days after it started was more than reason enough to persuade Russia to build a army so big that no nation would ever dream of repeating those horrifying events. If we are seeking the truth, we need to look at both sides. sadly the media are only giving us a one sided story.
Like you, I too am a man of peace and i too am seeking answers and truth.
@octoberguy63 Obviously, if Stalin had not allied with Hitler for the start of WW2, Stalingrad might never have met its fate.
@fingal if we had let France and Russia fail, the world would have been spared many terrors.Churchill had an irrational personal hatred of Hitler because Hitler had the one thing Churchill lacked the love, devotion and respect of his people.So Churchill used his hatred to drive him to commit Britain to support communism and globalism, it is no wonder the Britons got rid of the bastard at the earliest chance once war was done. The bastard was out of Downing street while ww2 in the east still raged, Britons said good riddance to bad Rubbish , he was an awful war monger that cost this nation almost everything.
@lordsnooty Are you even British? You don't seem to know anything about this country.
@lordsnooty Are you even British? You don't seem to know anything about this country.
which country do you refer to?
@lordsnooty I am a man of peace ✌️ too.
Looking for answers…
Ukraine is prized in Europe for exactly two things 1) a source of corn 2) a shortcut to invade Russia, there is no reason to add more reasons. It is the first European food/lebensraum war for centuries. That's what we are seeing, the Ukraine is the European prairies, think of Saskatchewan or Alberta without the Rockies, is it worth fighting Russia over corn? think it through...
Utter conspiracy nonsense. The news says Russia is a vewy bad man and he just a bully. There would never be wars over silly conspiracies like economic collapse, food shortages/control of food supply or natural resources now would there?
So Ukrainian children are corn for you? Ok then, I hope your children will not be called turnips soon by somebody who will think that UK is just an old, useless remnant of a have-been empire not worth fighting for. Ukrainians will die standing and will not be able to save you anymore, like they did save you from Hitler 70 years ago. Good luck to you, Britain.
Industrial military complex?? do you here yourself? You need to blue pill yourself a bit now bud and enough of the tin foil hat nonsense!
Industrial military complex?? do you here yourself? You need to blue pill yourself a bit now bud and enough of the tin foil hat nonsense!
Crickey, I predicted Russia would take Kiev quickly, but even I did not expect them to achieve it in 24 hours. So if thing go as they did in rehearsals this war should be over around lunch time... the worst thing Fatty Johnson can do now is act to prolong the war.
@lordsnooty hahahaha - How wrong were you, dear friend. This war will never end, because Ukrainians are way braver than any of the other Europeans. Hmm, I wonder how long would it take for him to take UK, probably a day, as London will not be that hard to get. Right?
Why must anything pro-Russian be 'misinformation'?
After all, all the lies about the Iraq war came from the USA and the UK and everyone knows now that they were absolute lies, resulting in what was undoubtedly a genocide on innocent Iraqi people.
The Russians didn't kill those 1 million people, it was the USA, the UK and other NATO allies.
But apparently that doesn't matter, nor did the genocide of Libya, nor does the terrorism in Syria and nothing Israel does can ever be anything but good, eh?
It is not 'misinformation' to say that the Ukrainians voted for a President who wanted closer ties to Moscow, rather than to the EU, and that he was overthrown in a violent coup d'etat funded by $5bn of US money. That is historical fact.
It is not 'misinformation' to say that that puppet government, having its strings pulled by Washington, has set about making the Russian language, spoken by a majority of citizens in the South and East of the country, unwelcome. If you deny that, I suggest you look at the laws implemented in Ukraine since 2014.
Furthermore, it is not 'misinformation' to state, truthfully, that Ukraine stole Russian gas in transit to Europe and refused to pay its own gas bills to Russia. I suggest you ask Gazprom about that one....
None of that is 'misinformation'.
So the question you have to answer is: 'why do the UK Government support a bunch of far-right fascists who hate Russians in a racist way, other than they are too weak to stand up to the USA??'
why do the UK Government support a bunch of far-right fascists who hate Russians in a racist way, other than they are too weak to stand up to the USA?
Spot on buddy, this clip should tell you all you need to know about how a confident leader should disregard stooges, weasels and liars, if nothing else is clear Putin will do what needs doing to safeguard the Russians in Eastern Ukraine from mindless destructive liberal Western hegemony, it's a big relief to see a fella who knows exactly what he wants.
Who are you? You love Putin? WOW, you will be popular in history! Believe me, people will read this in 10-20 years, I hope you are old enough not to face their anger.
you will be popular in history!
History is not a popularity contest. The closest opposition to Putin in Russia is the communist party, we don't want them to make a comeback.So we have no option but to keep Putin in power at all costs, and that's another reason why NATO is a waste of money. Russia and her satellite will have to find a way to co-exist, there is no short cut for doing that.
you will be popular in history!
History is not a popularity contest. The closest opposition to Putin in Russia is the communist party, we don't want them to make a comeback.So we have no option but to keep Putin in power at all costs, and that's another reason why NATO is a waste of money. Russia and her satellite will have to find a way to co-exist, there is no short cut for doing that.
"keep Putin in power at all costs" These are your words!..do you have any idea where this may lead? Try thinking..
"keep Putin in power at all costs" These are your words!..do you have any idea where this may lead? Try thinking..
He is holding off the Communists, Ukraine is his price, if we do not pay, then Putin falls , Communists are back, cold war resumes, you are slowly learning to use your head. You should try it more often!
Putin has us in a vice, we cannot eject from Ukraine using NATO, or we restart the cold war.
I have to admit it is an audacious gamble. But we cannot act militarily , and have not done so. He know he's got us, good and proper, you'll just have to suck it up, leek.
Looks like his gamble is not paying off.
In what way Ukraine having permanently lost control in Crimea, and the Donbas up to the admin border?
Well they (you) were aiming to reduce the strength and proximity of NATO, because it limits the expansionist aims of Russia.
Instead, NATO is getting bigger, closer and better funded.
Then the invasion itself is working towards a painful stalemate, or Russian failure.
The west is now weaning itself off the prime Russian export and will keep Russia in the economic wilderness for decades.
Don't buy the "for the Donbas people" rationale, as Russia is just trashing their home and killing them. What will they be left with?
All in all it was a very bad decision that will be paid for by the Russian people.
@rtj1211 Mostly, your facts are not facts. In particular, there's no evidence that the US played any significant role in the Ukrainian revolution that caused Yanukovytch to flee to his Russian paymasters. Russian propagandists love to point to the intercepted Nuland phone call. But while the call is certainly embarrassing, it also reveals that neither the US nor the EU were leading any kind of armed revolution.
neither the US nor the EU were leading any kind of armed revolution.
both and UK are straining every sinew to ensure Ukraine is a neocon puppet.
@lordsnooty The Ukrainian revolution was about joining the EU, not NATO. They want to join NATO now because, if you have Russia as a neighbour, who wouldn't? Any country not in NATO, gets invaded.
@lordsnooty The Ukrainian revolution was about joining the EU, not NATO. They want to join NATO now because, if you have Russia as a neighbour, who wouldn't? Any country not in NATO, gets invaded.
The revolution in the Donbas was about joining Russia not the EU.Hence the overwhelming support for Janucovytch.
@lordsnooty Many Ukrainians support Russia or are actually of Russian descent. So what? There are lots of regions of Russia that don't want to be Russian. I don't see Putin letting them have independence. When Yanukovytch was forced from power (well, actually he panicked) it was because he lost the majority in the country.
@lordsnooty I don't see Putin letting them have independence.
You cannot see anything whatsoever, since you are blind to any reason and only wish to cleave to the UK government's narrative that Volodymyr Zelenskyy is a sort of modern Robin Hood while Vladimir Putin is a sort of Sheriff of Nottingham. That's the extent of you beliefs.I strongly oppose you since the only route out of this war,eventually requires rapprochement.It would have been correct to try that before things go this bad.
You are 100% wrong, 90% (!!!!) of all Ukrainians today support Zelensky, Russian and Ukrainian speakers, Jews, Greeks, Tatars. Can you name another DEMOCRATIC country (i.e there the support is real, and not fake) that has the same support for its president? I will save you time, the answer is NO.
You are 100% wrong, 90% (!!!!) of all Ukrainians today support Zelensky
I have always hoped for the best possible outcome for all involved.
You are 100% wrong, 90% (!!!!) of all Ukrainians today support Zelensky
I have always hoped for the best possible outcome for all involved.
How do you imagine both Russia and Ukraine both get their best possible outcome? Please explain your thinking.
You are 100% wrong, 90% (!!!!) of all Ukrainians today support Zelensky
I have always hoped for the best possible outcome for all involved.
How do you imagine both Russia and Ukraine both get their best possible outcome? Please explain your thinking.
This is a key question, and it is subject of great debate, but for my point of view the best possible outcome now resembles Minsk2, that is where Putin's plan is leading, to minsk2.
Independence of the donbas, with partition of Ukraine. Ukraine may not like Minsk 2, but it is a possible outcome that would satisfy Russia , while what Ukraine wants is not possible since Russia already holds the Donbas.So it will be minsk 2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements
You are 100% wrong, 90% (!!!!) of all Ukrainians today support Zelensky
I have always hoped for the best possible outcome for all involved.
How do you imagine both Russia and Ukraine both get their best possible outcome? Please explain your thinking.
The best possible outcome for Russia and Ukraine is for Ukraine to remain Neutral and sign minsk2, while taking the Azov battalion and JFO apart, before Russia kills every man Jack of it, which btw it richly deserves, personally, I would be very pleased to know the naziS are all dead, and buried.
@lordsnooty Nonsense, the best possible result for Ukraine is full Russian withdrawal plus compensation. This is blindingly obvious.
Putin wants so much of Ukraine that there is no possible outcome that satisfies him.
@lordsnooty Nonsense, the best possible result for Ukraine is full Russian withdrawal plus compensation. This is blindingly obvious.
Putin wants so much of Ukraine that there is no possible outcome that satisfies him.
that would depend on whether the rest of the terrorists who have been attacking Russian separatists in the Donbas independent states. If they did, there should be some latitude to cease fire, the question of compensation, should any be due,depends in part on the health of the Russian economy.
@lordsnooty Nonsense, the best possible result for Ukraine is full Russian withdrawal plus compensation. This is blindingly obvious.
Putin wants so much of Ukraine that there is no possible outcome that satisfies him.
that would depend on whether the rest of the terrorists who have been attacking Russian separatists in the Donbas independent states. If they did, there should be some latitude to cease fire, the question of compensation, should any be due,depends in part on the health of the Russian economy.
It pleases me to me that the Brave Russian` Army is quickly reducing what remains pf the ukrainian fascist army to (basically) a mixture of dirt blood and bones, mostly btw dirt. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Yet in later posts you make the claim of being a peace loving neutral person.
Yet in later posts you make the claim of being a peace loving neutral person.
i have a special case for ukrainian fascists
Yet in later posts you make the claim of being a peace loving neutral person.
yes, I have an old fashioned theory that one side has to give in to end the war. Since Russia does not know how to give up, the only exit is for Ukraine to be the defeated party. Once Ukraine gives in the war should end.
I took the trouble to check the relevant election results. A substantial level of support for zelensky, in Ukraine.
@lordsnooty if you have Russia as a neighbour, who wouldn't?
China ? north korea? Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Japan... remind me, why is Britain still in Nato, so ministers can play war games from a seat at the top table.
@lordsnooty Putin only attacks countries where he knows he will win. He's not stupid.
@lordsnooty Putin only attacks countries where he knows he will win. He's not stupid.
we should learn to only defend countries that can be defended, Sleepy Biden and Fatty Johnson are stupid.
Agree 100%. @fingal.
I think if Lord Wet Pants Snooty was in charge, Putin would be heading here any moment now.
It's a food fight, without Ukrainian corn, Europe goes hungry. It's as simple as that.
Don't be silly and stop spouting conspiracy nonsense. Anyone would think you are calling out MSM as propaganda and that the Ukraine war has a hidden aganda *GASP* 😱
No, the real problem that today Europe goes cold without Russian gas. But this will change. I promise you, no, I guarantee you. And I hope then there will be no cash sources that "Fuel" your nonsense. Not in this country.
No, the real problem that today Europe goes cold without Russian gas. But this will change. I promise you, no, I guarantee you. And I hope then there will be no cash sources that "Fuel" your nonsense. Not in this country.
It sounds ominous, which country do you mean?
Why would they do that? Do you think there is a hidden agenda at play? You crazy conspiracy loon you!
Winter starting to look dark and bleak no? 😬
One problem for Dear Lord Snooty immigration today, private Russian gets are not flying here from there or there from here any more. I doubt he will board BA to the boarder of Belarus.... and then walk.
@rtj1211 neither the US nor the EU were leading any kind of armed revolution.
Yes but why are they getting dragged into wars between different types of Russians? That's the question...
@lordsnooty They weren't dragged in, they played no part in the revolution.
the West, US and UK,can't defeat Russia, their only freedom is to prolong the war, and that's what they're doing. Zelensky is hoping to hold on as long as he can, using his citizens as a shield.
@lordsnooty Putin has lost.
he’s lost the plot. His only way to deter the rest of Europe is now to threaten us all with nukes! He’s got nothing left now!
he is going to lose the Russian people as well.
this will be a constant stain on the history of Russia, his name will go down in history along side hitler as a despotic crack pot, who’s shot at infamy will be be in disaster.
Its all his fault and now, he cannot win 🤦🏻♂️
the people of russia are now living in dreaded fear of another pointless world war
Dear Lord Wet Pants, You criticised Churchill just now. BUT, his pants were much drier than yours, sorry. And he was smarter. Are you saying you, US, UK and Europe can not win against Putin? Then what you are going to say when China comes? Can not win? Well, then you have nothing on Churchill, my dear friend. Nothing! And it is not worth living if you are a looser.
Are you saying you, US, UK and Europe can not win against Putin?
We have absolutely no intention of being involved. none whatsoever. I hope for the best possible outcome for Ukraine.
So you hope The Russians turn around?
Get real.
I hope one side or the other quits, of course that must happen eventually . But which side should quit? That's a hard problem.Who started it?
- The ukraine government started it in feb 2014, when it removed minority language rights from Russian speakers!
- No Russians in the Donbas started it by declaring independence.
- No Putin started it when he ordered an invasion in Feb 2022.
- No it started with a Coup against legitimate President Yanukovic, in 2014
- No it started when the independent Crimean government invited more Russian forces to the base in sebastopol.
- No Kiev started it by supporting the vile fascist Asov Battalion.
- No, the west started it by trying to natoise the Ukraine.
So we can't decide who should quit based on who started it. Both sides share the blame for that, but who should quit? Well who would win if it went on for a long time?
It's hard to say who should quit. They'll have to sit down and talk it through, that's the next step.They'll have to have talks, meanwhile Russia might be content with the gains it has already made and Ukraine has little to bargain with. It's a real toughie.
So you hope The Russians turn around?
It is not as simple as that, sadly. Politics is the art of the possible. I do not like to leave NATO unreformed. It's a difficult problem. But I'm not sure how to fix NATO. I'm open to ideas, but NATO has extended as far east as it ever could . That is certain. Putin has bloodied the west's nose now , and learned where Russia and the West is weak, he knows the west has no will to take on a serious nuclear power, China has noticed that too.
Putin is now committed to securing his gains by putting up a military partition to isolate the Russian eastern part of Ukraine from the west leaning sectors. The Iron Ring Churchill might has called it.
East Ukraine is to be the new Russian Bulwark against any further NATO expansion. Putin can then park his tanks on NATO's lawn, and we'll just have to suck it up. With constraints and new responsibilities to a brand new country governed from the western sector of Kiev, i.e. with strict governance on NATO, perhaps it would be Putin's best choice to quit soon.
It depends on exactly where Putin eventually draws his partition line. He obviously won't give up what he has gained, and he wants all Ukrainian sea ports to be in the Russian sector(he already has that), so the line will start at Odessa, but where will it end? That is where everything hinges. He is close now to encircling Kiev, so that is his clearly his prime target. If he fails to encircle Kiev, the northern end of the partition line will surely be Kharkiv. And yes, once Putin is sure he can support one or other of those partition lines, I have real hope that the fighting can end.The sooner the better president Zelensky realises his game is up.It's over for the Ukraine as an intact nation.
@lordsnooty You understand nothing, from whatever country you're operating from. There's no exit strategy for Putin that leaves him in occupation of half of Ukraine. The only way for Russia to rejoin the world is to dump Putin. At some point, that's what's going to happen.
@lordsnooty There's no exit strategy for Putin that leaves him in occupation of half of Ukraine.
You might be right there. But what if he occupies the whole of ukraine?
@lordsnooty Doesn't really matter if he goes for the whole country or not. It can't be allowed to stand that he keeps anything - even the Donbass and Crimea are back in question. He has thrown away a strong position - what stupidity. I think he is stubborn enough, and isolated enough, to wade through oceans of blood until someone puts him out of his misery. The sooner he is deposed, the better.
@lordsnooty Doesn't really matter if he goes for the whole country or not. It can't be allowed to stand that he keeps anything
I'm sorry to break it to you but you have no say on whether or not it stands.Russia has a veto at the top table, the UN, you do not.
The sooner he is deposed, the better.
Well then we would enter anther round of the agony. An agony that has lasted since Russia entered Berlin in 1945. Do you want it to be a nice round century of agony, if not, you have to get a plan. Putin has a plan - to paralyse NATO, guess what ... it worked.
@lordsnooty How long is it before people start to ask if Putin is a western proxy, put in power to rescue NATO from being disbanded? Certainly working out that way!
@lordsnooty How long is it before people start to ask if Putin is a western proxy,
who would they ask?
@lordsnooty There's no exit strategy for Putin that leaves him in occupation of half of Ukraine.
You might be right there. But what if he occupies the whole of ukraine?
In that case, he has moved Russia closer to NATO protected countries. Which one will he target next? NATO will have to get stronger as a result. Russia will be in the economic wilderness for decades. How does this benefit anybody.
There is no reasonable defensive justification for the invasion. It is expansionist aggression pure and simple.
what if he occupies the whole of ukraine?
In that case, he has moved Russia closer to NATO protected countries. Which one will he target next? NATO will have to get stronger as a result. Russia will be in the economic wilderness for decades. How does this benefit anybody.
There is no reasonable defensive justification for the invasion. It is expansionist aggression pure and simple.
OK, here's the bottom line, written in terms that thickoes can grasp.
Russia stays in exactly the same location it was . But, thanks to Putin, NATO's ambitions have been totally trimmed back, forever. The Crimea and Donbass and the rest of East Ukraine have already been permanently removed from NATO's grasp. Ukraine now consists defacto of East and West Ukraine. Very insignificant small fry like Britain will have to learn to live with Russia, if you expect significant nations like Russia to live with you.
Putin has parked his tanks on your lawn, while you had hoped to park your tanks on his lawn. It did not work out because because Putin has bigger balls than you have. And that is all the result of your feeble ideas. My advice, make a plan that has a snowball's chance in hell of working.
Putin has no need of land! Russia already possesses 11% of the land surface of the planet. If he absorbs the whole of the EU he only gets 20% more than he already has, and would need to risk nuclear annihilation to get it.
But which one next ? well France tried to conquer Russia and Germany tried it twice! And all attempts failed with abject defeat which is how it would end for NATO, if it came to it. And that's just how it is.
wrt expansionist aggression...
I am far more concerned about America's ambition to convert the world to Mcdonald's munching capitalist consumers, such as yourself.
Your worship of Putin and support for his war seems to be getting out of hand.
Go back and read what you write.. it is pure hatred for NATO, mixed with enthusiasm for Russian aggression.
If anything Russia's actions have just shown why NATO is necessary and brought about the effect of it being strengthened.
it is pure hatred for NATO
NATO can be as hostile as it likes, as long as it is not hostile near the Russian border. If it gets hostile near Russia, there will be trouble.
I am far more concerned about America's ambition to convert the world to Mcdonald's munching capitalist consumers, such as yourself.
Hmm... You previously justified your support for Putin, as being the last defence against communism in Russia.
But now you oppose capitalism, which is the opposite. You can't hate both, as there is no other realistic alternative.
You seem to be contradicting yourself.
Hmm... You previously justified your support for Putin, as being the last defence against communism in Russia.
But now you oppose capitalism, which is the opposite.
my advice to you is to tell fewer lies and watch this.You are being gaslighted by your own government
So you hope The Russians turn around?
When Russia turns back depends on exactly where they want the line to partition Ukraine to be. I want a line which gives Russia and NATO a huge empty buffer zone, so not less than 150km from the present line of control in the map below. It would risk future peace to quit before dnipro falls.As chance has it, once dnipro is seized, that would define the line of partition to be from odessa to Dnipro then follow the natural course of the dnieper river all the way to kiev, so that's it. I predict line of partition will be from Odessa to Dnipro then along the river to Kiev, and that will be the new Ukraine, and the fighting will go on until that point.
@lordsnooty NATO already has a border with Russia. The invasion of Ukraine doesn't create a buffer, it removes it. The risk of a Russia-NATO war has been hugely increased. Even if Putin 'wins' the war, the millions of refugees will create a problem like the Palestinians that will never go away. Russia can never have peace if it tries to hold Ukraine.
@lordsnooty NATO already has a border with Russia. The invasion of Ukraine doesn't create a buffer, it removes it. The risk of a Russia-NATO war has been hugely increased. Even if Putin 'wins' the war, the millions of refugees will create a problem like the Palestinians that will never go away. Russia can never have peace if it tries to hold Ukraine.
NATO IS Restricted TO the North Atlantic area , By article 1 of the north atlantic treaty, and NATO has been operating illegally for many years, you will no doubt be aware that Turkey, Greece , Bulgaria, Slovakia and others are not part of the north Atlantic area.hence any impingement on Russia ifrom those regions s a crime and can be rebuked, by Russia .
@lordsnooty Article 10 gives the rule for new members, not Article 1. And being next to the Atlantic is not a criteria anyway. Is this the best you can do, Snooty?
Are you saying you, US, UK and Europe can not win against Putin?
Of course we could win against Putin but we dare not win, if Putin fails, communism returns and the cold war restarts. Hence we cannot take the chance to fight Putin.
Of course we could win against Putin but we dare not win, if Putin fails, communism returns and the cold war restarts. Hence we cannot take the chance to fight Putin.
Your use of "we" in this statement is dishonest, since clearly you want Putin to succeed in his expansion.. Ukraine...then what?
, if Putin fails, communism returns and the cold war restarts.
Ukraine...then what?
Wherever NATO puts the hostility.
Hostility By whom and what specifically? Has someone been parked on Russian borders with 150k of troops and tanks and missiles?
Have were they under some immediate threat, that would justify attacking?
Please point them out.
What hostility?
If NATO is still a defensive alliance, who or what is it defending itself against? The spontaneous response to this would be to identify Russia as the adversary, but this in turn implies that the existence of NATO itself casts Russia in the role of perpetual enemy. Unsurprisingly, the Russians have worked this out for themselves and concluded that their own national interests are likely to play out against a background of low-level Western hostility.
So you justify this invasion, because of a "a low level of hostility"?
Don't forget that you use the word "we" often when referring to the Russian action, so pretending to be some objective observer is not credible.
How would Russia have fared if they had taken the opportunity to be a good neighbour and participate in the global economy?
Obviously much better as a nation, but probably not so well for the top politicians and cronies.
And what kind of Russian are you? Oh, I think we already established this, you are a "kremlin" kind. Russcist kind. Got it.
@fingal also it cannot possibly be true that nuland didn't give a toss about Ukrainians and they used the nazi slurs about Ukrainians to their best advantage. And it can't be true that biden, his son, and pelosis son all have "industrial money" interests in gas in Ukraine? Keep your head in the sand, you won't like the truth anyway.
@lumina Unfortunately your reply is incomprehensible. To repeat, the key thing the Nuland call reveals is that the US/EU did not orchestrate the Maidan revolution, and indeed were not working together at all.
the US/EU did not orchestrate the Maidan revolution, and indeed were not working together at all.
Whatever, they certainly appear to be working together now, working together to put in power the opposition in Russia, the Communist party. It is very unusual to see Britain and America striving so hard on behalf of Russian Communists. What went wrong there?
@lordsnooty You're wasting your time with this Communist rubbish. No one cares if the Communists take over (which they won't anyway). Ask for permission to try another angle - this isn't working for you.
@lordsnooty You're wasting your time with this Communist rubbish. No one cares if the Communists take over
what would be your ideal outcome? A never ending civil war on the borders of Russia?
@lordsnooty The only way this ends well is for Putin to withdraw immediately. But he's an old man. He doesn't listen to advisers any more because they sit too far away down the table
@lordsnooty The only way this ends well is for Putin to withdraw immediately. But he's an old man. He doesn't listen to advisers any more because they sit too far away down the table
I do not mind in the least if it does not end well for Putin, I am only concerned that it ends well for both Ukraine and Russia.At present by not getting involved, we are allowing them to resolve their problems, which is correct.
@lordsnooty The only way this ends well is for Putin to withdraw immediately. But he's an old man. He doesn't listen to advisers any more because they sit too far away down the table
I do not mind in the least if it does not end well for Putin, I am only concerned that it ends well for both Ukraine and Russia.At present by not getting involved, we are allowing them to resolve their problems, which is correct.
How does it end well for both parties?
Ukraine wants to be left alone and join the EU. Russia [well Putin] wants to acquire Ukraine. These cannot both be achieved.
Putin is interested in preserving his own power and increasing it, if possible. You would seem to be a big fan.
How does it end well for both parties?
It's difficult . I'd like an easy way out but we have passed that. The best path now is any which avoids a prolonged war of attrition as we saw in Syria until Putin used air strikes on the insurgent "terrorists" to put a stop to it in 2015.
The west quite likes proxy wars (e.g. Yemen, Syria, the DonBas ...) since the foreigners do the fighting on the west's behalf. Fatty Boris and Sleepy Joe won't go near Ukraine with a barge pole , encouragement and our money, is all they'll offer. TALK IS CHEAP.
So, the reality is that Putin already holds the Dombas and much of east Ukraine, and much territory to the north of Kiev, he's taken more territory around the Crimea and is able to blockade all Ukrainian sea ports. A 40 mile long convoy is coming via chernobyl.This is to lay siege to Kiev; starve it out. See map below.
Ukraine wants to be left alone and join the EU. Russia [well Putin] wants to acquire Ukraine. These cannot both be achieved.
East Germans would not have chosen to be cut off and occupied by Russia at the close of WW2, but it was, as East Ukraine is now. It is just the way it is.
btw: if Putin goes, the Communists would come back pronto.
Now there can never be an intact Ukraine in NATO or the EU, since Russia is occupying the Donbas , hence the best outcome I can see for both sides now is to stop fighting and to partition Kiev/Ukraine as Berlin/Germany was partitioned.This is now a very distinct probability.
Putin is interested in preserving his own power and increasing it, if possible. You would seem to be a big fan.
I'll let you know if I ever say anything nice about Putin, I have not done so yet . At present he is holding off the Communists, we do not want to go back to that. Ukraine is his price to hold off the Communists. And it would serve Russia as a buffer zone, like the Golan for Israel.
Anyway, there is no better plan. If you know one spell it out, if your plan is to have NATO march in and forcibly eject Russia, that would restart the cold war. The West has no plan, and we need Russia more than Russia needs us. btw: Russia being 11% of global land mass.
As it happens Putin had a plan.
@lordsnooty I don't care if you like Putin or not, what matters is that you take his money to talk this crap. What part of the UK do you claim to be from? Have a quick look on wikipedia and see what you can find.
@lordsnooty I don't care if you like Putin or not,
Thank you for your kind words and I likewise don't mind it you dislike Putin or not. btw: Here is Peter Hitchens, saying as I say that he wants this war to be over as soon as possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvmddazUW3I
OK, I'll show you the plan. We in the west have used Ukraine as our proxy because we dare not confront Putin ourselves. Our leaders have been content to allow the Donbas to become a proxy war involving neo-Nazi Ukrainian forces such as the Azov Battalion to kill and maim tens of thousands of Russian speaking residents, it was bound to end in disaster and now it is doing. We might have persuaded Kiev to change policy and recognise the independent DONBAS republics, but we delayed and delayed... so we could use Ukraine as a battering ram, as Peter calls it.
Vladimir Putin's designs are now transparently obvious, he will join his Russian controlled territory around the Donbas to his newly acquired strip of coast near mariupol to create a Russian-speaking zone from the Donbas to the Crimea, and do similar in the north of Donbas to join his newly acquired territory extending from the north of Kiev to Kharkiv, creating a horseshoe shaped zone of Russian control (an Iron Horseshoe!) from the Crimea to the outskirts of kiev and enclosing almost the whole of Eastern Ukraine. A 40 mile army column is advancing to the outskirts of north western Kiev, the intent is clear, Putin will encircle and starve out Kiev. He is in effect implementing Minsk2 unilaterally, putting a hard stop to President Zelensky's trouble making. Now Ukraine is to be partitioned as Germany was, perhaps Kiev will wind up like Berlin? We have no say in matters any more, we lost our chance that when we allowed Minsk2 to fail.
And that's the full plan. The trap has been set and is now ready to close.
@lordsnooty What part of the UK do you claim to be from? Have a quick look on wikipedia and see what you can find.
I live in that part of Britain encircled by the castles of Edward I to conquer north Wales.Ironically, Putin's plan to conquer east Ukraine is an application of exactly the same plan. It is very famous and is called the ring of Iron! That how I figured out what Putin is up to!He's copying King Edward I of England.The purpose of building the ring of castles was to control the native Welsh population, particularly in Gwynedd, which had been the main focus of resistance to the English crown for centuries. Substitute Ukraine for Wales and his plan is transparently obvious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Iron
@lordsnooty I don't care if you like Putin or not, what matters is that you take his money to talk this crap. What part of the UK do you claim to be from? Have a quick look on wikipedia and see what you can find.
The history of Donetsk is worth reading, esp for a person as ignorant as you.
@lordsnooty The only way this ends well is for Putin to withdraw immediately. But he's an old man. He doesn't listen to advisers any more because they sit too far away down the table
that's his way to avoid covid19.
My ideal outcome is that they would find you a jet so that you can emigrate to Russia (while it still exists). This is just humane, your life will get increasingly difficult here.
your life will get increasingly difficult here.
I'm still waiting for things to get more difficult.... no sign of anything yet!
“Why must anything pro-Russian be 'misinformation'?”
It doesn’t have to be, they used to have an awesome football team in the late 80’s early 90’s.
However, I think you misread my post and it’s nuanced meaning.
misinformation and conspiracy theories proliferate this site.
Besides that, thanks for your, lengthy, yet one-sided insight.
As it happens Putin had a plan.
There you go - you just said something nice about Putin. The illusion that what is happening is actually as he intended. You are loyal to something, but it isn't Britain.
