Something is clearly rotten even if it's just some conflicts of interest going on in the promotion of the vaccine. It feels like we're being held hostage in some form of lockdown till the government has persuaded ever lower and less at risk age groups to take the vaccine. I don't really think the government will be able to make it compulsory or necessary for travel/using services but with this lot, who knows.
Making out there is a supply problem is a good way to make the vax seem more valuable to those who can get it. The propaganda will get worse but it is just propaganda. Maybe there isn't any want to release restrictions until late June because the vax (which one, I don't know, give me a break) only has temporary authorisation pending conclusion of safety trials which must be at least a year long. If there isn't pandemic status, there is no authorisation.
The Council of Europe has ruled against coercion to vaccinate and the WHO (Michael Ryan) has come out against vaccine passports. I don't see them happening, I might be wrong, coz I didn't think that Boris Johnson would lock down last year when the news reports said about "coming under pressure to take stronger action" and I didn't see any of this coming in the turn of 2020.
Council of Europe https://pace.coe.int/en/files/29004/html (read section 7.3.1)
Debates about vaccines and articles about it are trying their best to drive up the uptake. The language is very careful to avoid being negative about it but it isn't mandatory and I'm sure the uptake will be lower among younger age groups so they won't be able to make it mandatory without serious trouble. Its been a year of this crap. Its turned covidians into sceptics and turned me (previously a sort of everyman type figure) into an anti-government nutcase. We should be grateful to the Asian communities for being generally distrustful of the vaccines and also citizens of foreign countries where the uptake has been low. The lower the uptake among people not really at much risk, the less likely the govt will try anything crazy this summer.
There is no point calling people on here anti-vaxxers. I have had vaccines in the past when I was school age and have never been called for any since. Before 2020 I never felt strongly about them and didn't realise other people did. People should have the right to choose for themselves though and its a slippery slope when you subvert that.
If you are a lockdown sceptic you should surely be pro-choice.
You can't claim to be a proper lockdown sceptic and also support things like vaccine passports (as a condition for doing stuff). The two points of view are not compatible. If you support coerced vaccinations, the fact that we didn't have any vaccines for most of last year means that the logical conclusion of the fake lockdown sceptic is that we only get our freedoms back on the conditions that government gives everyone some medical intervention. It should never have been this way out for a virus with such a high recovery rate and most of us here knew that from this time last year.
The vaccinations, fair enough, for anyone who wants one or obviously the at risk groups, but the worry for a lot of people is overreach in the vaccination program to people who don't want one. That is a reasonable worry and we've never had to deal with this level of govt intervention in our lives before and when research and speech are buried or restricted people will rightfully ask questions and wonder what the hell is going on. That's what this forum "lockdown sceptics" is for. The people who aren't lockdown sceptics should maybe consider debating this on Facebook where the prevailing opinion is that Boris didn't lock down hard enough and leave us to commiserate each other on what a mess the 2020s are turning out to be
Excellent post strange_cultist...
😀
You can't claim to be a proper lockdown sceptic and also support things like vaccine passports (as a condition for doing stuff). The two points of view are not compatible.
why would you wonder if some who wonder if lockdowns work is proper? So you think it's not proper to wonder if lockdowns work, or if vaccines work? What is not proper about it?
You can't claim to be a proper lockdown sceptic and also support things like vaccine passports (as a condition for doing stuff). The two points of view are not compatible.
why would you wonder if some who wonder if lockdowns work is proper?
These posts get weirder and weirder. Are you drinking on the job?
I would certainly be interested in seeing how the Govt have made such considerations if vaccinations are pushed to ever younger groups.
I think there is potentially something rotten here.
There is no ethically correct answer to the trolly problem. That's why it's interesting. There is always something rotten in any large public health matter. Sacrifices must be made. It's banal. The NHS is the biggest employer in the world, near enough, except perhaps the Chinese army. Hence there will always be something rotten there somewhere, i'm looking at the ONS who I suspect have done exaggeration.
The trolley problem is overly discussed, certainly in its 'trolley' forms. Nonetheless, it is very relevant in its health forms at the current time. The U.K's governments are pushing vaccination to healthier and lower age groups, and are increasingly using the external benefit to others as a justification. At some point it becomes a straight up ethical issue, is it right to coerce (as opposed to them make a choice) one group to increase their risk to reduce that of another? So I definitely think the governments should have gone out of their way to show their ethical considerations. I don't believe the media have suppressed such communication.
